September 22, 2026

The Sergeant at Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. Let's pause for a minute of silent prayer.

In Jesus' name, Amen. The Clerk of Court will now call the roll.

Sen. Judge Cayetano Allan, Sen. Judge Cayetano Pia, Sen. Judge De La Rosa, Sen. Judge Ejercito, Sen. Judge Estrada, Sen. Judge Goque, Sen. Judge Hontiveros, Sen. Judge Lacson, Sen. Judge Lapid, Sen. Judge Legarda, Sen. Judge Marcoleta, Sen. Judge Marcos, Sen. Judge Padilla, Sen. Judge Pangilinan, Sen. Judge Soto III, Sen. Judge Tulfo Erwin. Senator-Judge, Tulfo Rafi, Senator-Judge, Villanueva, Senator-Judge, Villar Camil, Senator-Judge, Villar Marc, Senator-Judge, Zubiri, The Presiding Officer, Senator-Judge, Escudero, The Senate President, Senator-Judge, Cachalian.

With 16 Senator-judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure on Impeachment Trials, the Chair now recognizes the newly elected Procedure Officer to preside over the proceedings of the Impeachment Court.

I stand corrected. We have 17 Senator-Judges present.

Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the September 21, 2026 Journal of the Senate sitting as an Impeachment Court and consider the same as approved.

The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the Impeachment Court.

Case number 004-2026 in the matter of Impeachment Trial of Vice President Saira Zirman Duterte.

Appearances for the parties.

Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearance for the prosecution. We are ready, Your Honor. I

presume, Honorable Luistro, that Attorney Erwin will still stand for this case.

Yes, Your Honor.

For the respondent?

Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the respondent...

Good morning, Attorney Sheila.

...accused, Your Honor.

Same, Attorney Justin will

also

stand for the respondent?

That's correct, Your Honor.

The witness will kindly be please escorted by the clerk of court through the auditorial witness stand. Attorney Del Rosario, please.

May we request Your Honor that Atty. Erwin Matib be recognized, Your Honor. Yes,

please, ma'am. Atty. Erwin is recognized as well as Atty. Justin for the respondent.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Bago po tayo magsimula, magandang umaga, Atty. Del Rosario. Paumanhin po kahapon kung hindi ko kayo na-excuse bago po kami nag-asikaso ng mga administrative na mga bagay kahapon at bago po ako mag-adjourn. Hindi ko po makakalimutan gawin yan. Ngayon, pangako ko po sa inyo. Salamat po. Do you understand, Atty. Del Rosario, that you will continue to testify under and based on the same oath you took yesterday?

Opo.

Salamat po, Atty. Del Rosario. Atty. Justin, are you ready for your cross?

Yes, Your Honor, with the court's permission.

When you're ready, you may proceed.

Thank you, Your Honor. Turning to my cross.

Sir Del Rosario, Atty. Del Rosario, magandang umaga po.

Magandang umaga po sa inyo.

Good morning. Simulan po natin sir. During your direct examination yesterday, you identified records belonging to several corporations. In general, yung mga records na ito are those on file or are available with the records of the SEC or the Securities and Exchange Commission. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And now, the SEC compiled and produced these documents or these records upon the request of the House of Representatives. Tama po ba?

Direquest po nila sa amin yan.

Yes. And you confirmed that these corporate records were actually first requested po in relation to the hearings of the House of Representatives Committee on Justice. Naalala niyo po iyon?

Tama po.

Yes. And you confirmed that you also testified under oath during that committee hearings before the House of Representatives. Tama po?

Tama po.

And can you please confirm, sir, whether this date was on April 22, 2026? Can you recall that?

Ang matandaan ko po ay ang subpina, ang date po niya is April 14, pero hindi naman po agad kami natanong noon. Patuloy siya, hindi ko na po matandaan yung exactong pecha. Kung kailan po ako natanong during that impeachment proceeding sa Committee

of Justice. Okay lang po, Atty. Delosario. Now, tama po bang sabihin, sir, na yung Securities and Exchange Commission ay nag-compile and release ng corporate documents base po sa informasyon na binigay ng House of Representatives.

Tama po kung ano po yung kanilang hiniling sa amin yung po ang ibinigay namin.

In other words, yung House of Representatives po yung nagbigay ng informasyon at listahan ng mga kumpanya kung anong mga kumpanya ang iko-compile nyo yung mga records nila.

Tama po.

Now, kahapon po nung direct examination ni Atty. Matib, you testified and answered, or just please correct me, that you stated na hindi naman po kayo personally aware sa mga contents ng SAL-N ng ating VC Presidente. Tama po ba?

Tama po. Wala po akong access sa SAL-N ng kahit sino po.

Okay. Besides your own SAL-N, tama

po ba?

Yun lang pong SAL-N ko ang alam kong

nakikita ko.

Tama. And you confirm also, sir, and just for the record, pakikonfirm na lang po na yung Securities and Exchange Commission natin sa Pilipinas as an office would also have no information about the contents of any salens of other public officers including specifically the salen of the Vice President. Tama po ba?

Tama po. Hindi po sa amin ang lagakan

ng mga salen.

So yung tanong ko po, at the time when you first compiled and gathered all the documents, corporate records that are on file or maintained by the Securities and Exchange Commission, wala pong personal na knowledge yung SEC na yung mga korporasyon na iyon ay nakadeklara o nakalagay sa salay ng ating vicepresidente?

Hindi po

namin

alam.

In other words, is it correct to say that the SEC merely relied on the information provided by the House of Representatives?

Objection.

Just to clarify, Your Honor, is the Council is referring to the SEC, Your Honor. Perhaps he should refer to this witness, Your Honor, because SEC, we're talking about an institution, Your Honor.

The documents come from the SEC, Your Honor.

It's a comment, Atty. Justin, anyway. Atty. Erwin, you may proceed, Atty. Justin.

Maraming salamat po, Your Honor. Kayo po, kayo po mismo at ang opisina niyo, nag-rely lang po kayo sa impormasyon na pinigay ng House of Representatives.

Tama po.

And you confirm that as the representative of the Securities and Exchange Commission, specifically the Company Registration and Monitoring Department, your testimony Before this court is limited to the records that are maintained by your division. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now, kahapon din po, Atty. Del Rosario, nag-identify din po kayo for the first time ng mga summaries na supposedly and according to you, prepared by your office. Do you recall that?

Tama po. Naalala ko po.

And according to you, these summaries were supposedly prepared by the Securities and Exchange Commission upon the request of the Prosecution Panel. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And specifically, this request from the Prosecution Panel of the House of Representatives is through a letter dated September 10, 2026. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

At sino po yung pumirma nung letter request na yun galing sa House of Representatives?

Ang nakalagda po sa request na yun ay si Congresswoman Louise Stroh.

And in relation to that request that we are just discussing now, Atty., You confirmed that your office prepared two separate sets of summaries nung pinakita natin kahapon.

Tama po.

Particularly, isa dito is yung may label na tinatawag na Summary of Vice President Duterte Shareholdings tapos sa ibang pages naman, Manassas R. Carpio Shareholdings. Naalala niyo po?

Tama po.

Kayo po ba yung naglagay ng label na yun?

Opo.

Okay. My next question. Now, this summary contains several information relative to articles of incorporation and general information sheets of various corporations. Do you confirm that?

Apo.

And do you have that document with you now? I'll be going into those documents.

Dala ko po. Nasa holding room lang yung mga dokument.

Sige. Your Honor, just to allow the witness to have that document since my cross will pertain to that, may we just request that the witness be allowed to secure those documents or if the prosecution... could help and provide the witness with that document.

Your Honor, if I may be clarified, yung summary po, dala ko ngayon, pero yung pinanggalingan po ng buod ng summary ko ay nasa holding room po.

Ah, okay. I'm referring to particularly po, Atty. Delosario, yung mga summary nasa inyo po. Sige po, please po, pakilabas na lang po kasi may mga tungako in relation to those documents.

You already have a copy of that, Atty. Justin, correct?

Yes, Your Honor, we confirm, but Nevertheless, Your Honor, we'd just like to put on record that we haven't been given the letter dated September 10, 2016.

But it's okay, Your Honor. May I proceed, Your Honor?

Please proceed.

Thank you, Your Honor. Now, hawak nyo na po yung dalawang summary?

Hawak ko na po.

Okay. Now, puntahan po natin yung unang summary po. Yung may informasyon tungkol sa Articles of Incorporation at ng General Information Sheet ng iba't ibang mga kumpanya. Tawagin na lang po natin yung first summary. Tama po ba na 27 pages yan? Pakicheck po.

Composed of 27 pages.

Tama po.

Okay. Tapos yung pangalawang summary naman po, yung isang summary rather, you confirm that ito yung containing yung title niya, Incorporators Declared in the AOI- by Company, and sa ibang pages naman, Shareholders Declared in the GIS. dash by shareholder. Inukumpirman niyo po ba?

Tama po.

Now, you confirmed that the second summary or the summary that you are looking at now is composed of 26 pages. Tama po ba?

Yung pangalawang summary po ay listahan ng mga incorporators.

Correct. And it is composed of 26 pages. Yan po yung tanong ko, sir.

Tama po.

Okay. Now, you confirmed that itong dalawang mga summary na to po that came from your office and was supposedly prepared by your office are undated. or walang date. Tama po ba na nakalagay sa dokumento?

Opo. Walang date.

And you confirm that both these summaries that your office supposedly prepared are also unsigned or walang perma po ng kahit sa sino man. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And you confirm that both these summaries that are supposedly again prepared by your office does not have a seal or even the logo of the Securities and Exchange Commission or your division. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now let's go to the letter dated September 14, 2026 that you signed. Nasa inyo na po?

Nasa akin na po.

And you confirm that in this letter it states, and I quote, and please confirm this, and I quote, To prepare a summary of general information sheet and audited financial statements of the corporations and partnerships in your letter in connection with the impeachment trial of the Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. You confirm na may paragraph na ganyan?

Meron po.

And the second paragraph of the same letter dated September 14, 2026 that you also signed, you confirm that it states, and I quote, the Commission respectfully transmits herewith the summaries of GIS and AFS both in electronic and hard copies format. End of quote. You confirm that?

Apo.

Now, based on that document po, Atty. Del Rosario, can you please confirm that there is no mention for a request Of a summary of the articles of incorporations. Wala pong nakamention dyan. Tama po ba?

Hindi po nakasulat.

Pasensya po, uminom lang. And you also confirm that there is also no summary, there's also no request rather, of summary of incorporators in that letter request.

Ayon po sa ang trasbital letter, wala po.

And you confirm, Atty. Del Rosario, that in the general information sheet naman po, Bilang isang kawaninang ating SEC, ang nare-reflect po sa GIS are the current stockholders of the corporation. At iniindicate lang whether yung current stockholders ay incorporator or hindi. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And it does not have a portion where the incorporators of a corporation are declared constantly unlike our articles of incorporation. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now, despite the absence of a request for a summary of articles of incorporations or incorporators of businesses in the relevant letters, you confirm that in both your summaries, your office supposedly prepared and even included summaries of information relative to articles of incorporation, correct?

I have to object, Your Honor, because the question is misleading.

Why is it misleading, Attorney Aaron?

It is misleading, Your Honor, because Council was referring to the September 14, 2026, transmit a letter. That was not the request letter. The request letter was September 10, 2026, which clearly stated the inclusion of articles of incorporation for the summary.

Your Honor, we're asking in relation to September 14, 2026.

If there is such a letter. If

there is such... Request with respect to those summaries.

But Your Honor, that September 14 is the transmittal letter from the SEC.

Again, if there is such a request, the problem is that the transmittal letter has not yet been furnished with the counsel for the respondent.

That is precisely the point of

the defense, Your Honor. We were never furnished with this request.

I'll allow it.

Witness may please answer. Objection overruled.

Thank you, Your Honor. Maraming salamat po. Atorney, balikan ko lang po. Particularly po sa September 14, 2026 na sinulat ng SEC at yung pinirmahan nyo, hindi naman po sinabi doon na nag-submit kayo ng summaries ng Articles of Incorporation based on the words and those stated in that document.

Tama po, hindi nga po nakasulat sa aking transmittal letter about Articles of Incorporation.

Maraming salamat po, Delosario. Apologies for interrupting you. And you confirm wala ding nakasulat sa transmittal letter mo yung Incorporators, tama po ba?

Wala po.

Pero you confirm, nasa summaries na pre-repair niyo, nandun yung mga impormasyon relative to articles in corporation and in corporators, tama?

Yan po yung basic na impormasyon sa bawat korporasyon, kaya naisama ko na po siya rin.

Okay, I'll take that answer, Atty. Delosario. Now, according to you, after receiving this request from the House of Representatives, you instructed members of your team or your office to work on this request, tama po ba?

Tama po.

At yan yung sabi niyo, kinumpirma niyo kahapon. Now, it would be correct for me to assume na itong mga empleyado na ito is under your direct supervision po.

Tama po.

And these are of course employees of the Securities and Exchange, CMRD. Tama po ba?

Apo, ng Departamento po, CRMD.

Ah, CRMD. Maraming salamat po sa pag-correct sa akin, Sir. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And ilang membro po yung nagtrabaho dito, kung naalala niyo?

Limang tao po.

And for the records, can you please name all these five people who helped you work on this?

At isa pa pong empleyado rin namin na tumulong sa kanya ay si Ms. Pamela Munzon.

Okay. Now, let's go to the first summary that you prepared, Atty. Del Rosario. I notice, sir, that the order of the corporation listed in at least the first four corporations is as follows. Can you please check? The first corporation mentioned is City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation, found on pages 1 and 2, with page 2 being at the back portion of the first leaf.

Tama po?

Opo.

Yung pangalawa naman, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, found on pages 3 and 4, with page 4 being on the back leaf.

Tama po.

Third is GenCorp Industries, Inc., found on page 5, correct?

Opo.

And fourth is Kale88 Foods Corporation, found on page 6, correct?

Opo.

Na kung naalala nyo, ilang korporasyon yung pinaproduce ng House of Representatives sa opisina nyo?

Around 16 corporations po.

16 corporations. But you confirm in making that summary, in ordering per corporation, you did not arrange them alphabetically, no?

Hindi po.

You also did not arrange them based on the earliest date of incorporation or the latest date of incorporation, correct?

Hindi rin po.

And hindi din siya arranged based on either the highest or the lowest authorized capital stock. Tama po ba? Pero you recall, kahapon, nung nag-direct examination yung prosecution, the direct examination precisely followed. The sequence that is indicated in your summary. Una, yung City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation ang Dinesh Kasa Direct, tama po ba? Naalala nyo?

Tama po.

At kasunod, Metro City Chow Foods naman, yung Dinesh Kasa Direct, tama po ba?

Tama rin po.

Tawangatlo ang Dinesh Kasa Direct, GenCorp Industries, tama po ba?

Tama po.

At yung pang-apat, Kale88 Foods Corporation, tama po ba?

Tama rin po.

At nakasunod to sa summary na supposedly, pireneper ng opisina nyo. Tama?

Opo.

Okay. Now earlier, you confirmed that you received the request on September 10, 2026. Tama po ba?

Natanggap ko po siya ng September...

10.

...11 po.

Sorry, yes. 11.

Okay. At sabi mo kanina limang tao lang po yung gumawa nito.

Opo.

Okay. So you were able... Okay, let's go to the timelines. You received this September 11. Tama po. And that's a Friday. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And September 12 and 13 are actually Saturdays and Sundays respectively, correct?

Tama po.

And you were able to provide the House Prosecution Panel on the following Monday on September 14, 2026, correct?

Hindi po.

Kailan niyo po nabigay? Yung transmittal letter niyo kasi sir is September 14, 2026.

Kahapon lang po.

Kapon lang. Pero natapos na po kasi, can you please confirm na natapos na yung summary nung September 14, 2026?

Natapos po siya ng Monday, September, o Monday na yun, ng hapon.

Ng hapon, 14, 2026. Now, tatlong araw lang po ginawa to ng team nyo na limang tao.

Apo, tatlong araw lang po.

Now, I remember yesterday when Atty. Matib asked me to stipulate on these documents, sinabi niya, and I quote, Considering that we have more than 200 exhibits, consisting of more than 3,000 pages. End of quote. Ito din yung mga amount or volume ng documents na in-examine at kinumpile at sinumarize ng five-man team niyo po sa SEC.

Tama po.

Okay. That includes working during weekends. Tama po ba?

Nagtrabaho po ng Sabado.

And it includes the process of examination of documents, inputting and typing of data, and review between the documents and the figures appearing therein and those appearing on the summaries that you've prepared. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Let me conclude. And this is despite the fact that you only received that on September 11, 2026.

Tama po.

Okay. Maraming salamat. Now, yesterday, you confirmed, nung direct examination niyo, you were made to confirm several corporations identified Yesterday, that did not declare dividends. Naalala niyo po yun?

Opo.

And you also confirmed that for other corporations naman, ang talagang records ng SEC is hindi niyo masabi kasi wala namang po kayong on-file na audited financial statements.

Meron pong ganon. Meron pong ganon.

Now, let's go to the fact that several corporations did not declare any dividends, no? You are aware naman po, Atty. Del Rosario, at kasi abogado naman po kayo at matagal na po kayo sa SEC, That the power of a corporation to declare dividends is under section 42 of our revised corporation code.

Tama po.

And

you confirm that under section 42 of the revised corporation code, it states that, and I quote, the board of directors of a stock corporation may declare dividends out of unrestricted retained earnings which shall be payable in cash, property, or in stock to all stockholders on the basis of the outstanding stock held by them. Naka-flash po siya but you can confirm po if tama yung...

Tama po.

Section 42. Okay. Now you confirm that under Section 42 of the Revised Corporation Code with respect to the...

Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Tama po.

Unrestricted retained earnings. Tama po ba ang pagkaintindi ko sa batas?

Tama po.

Now you are also aware, however, na may paragraph 2 itong section 42 ng revised corporation code. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And dito po nakalagay yung prohibition on retaining surplus profits. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And specifically it states, the prohibition is only that a stock corporation are prohibited from retaining surplus profits. in excess of 100% of their paid-in capital. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Okay, may question. Ito po yung paid-in capital.

This is the total amount of cash or property actually contributed by shareholders in relation to the subscribed shares. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

So sa madaling salita po, ito yung mga amount of shares ng isang kumpanya na payad na talaga ng shareholders whether it be by property or whether it be by cash or other. Other allowable considerations for the purchase of shares. Tama?

Opo. Tama po.

Kasi pwede naman po para maintindihan po natin na mag-subscribe ng shares sa kumpanya at hindi mo bayaran yung buong subscription. Tama po ba?

Maari po yan.

Kaya may distinction po sa summary na pre-prepare nyo, amount subscribed at amount paid up. Tama?

Tama po.

Now let's go back under section 42. What is prohibited is not the fact That a corporation does not issue any dividends. Tama po ba?

Pakiulit po.

Sorry. I'll do it slowly. Under Section 42, hindi naman prohibited ang hindi pag-declare ng dividendo. Tama po? Dahil sa word na may. What is prohibited is retaining surplus profits in excess by 100% of payment capital.

Tama po.

So kapag walang dineklara, hindi naman po illegal yung ginagawa ng mga korporasyon. Tama po ba?

Hindi naman po.

Okay. Pero kahit na, Under the prohibition on paragraph 42, you agree naman po, Atty. Del Rosario, na may exceptions kung saan pwede po tayong mag-withheld ng declaration of dividendo kahit na nag-exceed na yung surplus profits mo sa paid-in capital. Tama po ba?

Meron pong tatlong exception under

section 42. At ito yung mga exception, just please confirm. A. When justified by definite expansion projects or programs approved by the Board of Directors. Tama po ba? Yan po yung una. Ito yung sa mga abogado tinatawag po

natin na approved expansions for brevity. Tama po?

Tama po.

Yung pangalawang exception naman po, when the corporation is prohibited under any loan agreement with financial institution or creditors, whether local or foreign, from declaring dividends without their consent and such consent has not yet been secured. Pwede din po, tama?

Apo.

Ito yung mga tinatawag natin na abogado na loan restrictions. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now, yung pangatlo, when it can be clearly shown that such retention is necessary under special circumstances obtaining in the corporation, such as when there is a need for a special reserve for probable contingencies. Tama po ba?

Yan po yung pangatlo.

Ito yung tinatawag natin na special circumstances. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

At kasali dito, Ang yung mga kaso, halimbawa yung kumpanya, may litigation, tama po ba?

Tama po.

Okay. And you confirm, sir, na kapag ginagawa ito ng corporation, meaning invoking those three exceptions, dapat nire-report ito sa audited financial statement?

Dapat po.

Okay. Pero you confirm, sir, in the summary that you prepared, ang nilagay nyo lang, no dividends declared.

Objection.

I'm just asking a confirmation, Your Honor.

What

is your objection, attorney?

Misleading, your honor, as to the information. All that they put in the summary is no dividends declared because the summary precisely contains more than that information, your honor. It also includes information or columns about appropriation, retained earnings, unrestricted retained earnings. So it's misleading to say that the only information in the summary is... The information that there were no dividends declared. I don't think

that was the intention of the question, Attorney Erwin. However, it may nevertheless still be misleading because insofar as that column is concerned, it did not only contain no dividends declared as the witness clarified yesterday upon the questioning of the presiding officer. He clarified that In the illustration of the counsel for the prosecution, hindi siya lahat no dividends declared sa kanyang summary. Iba, no

documents submitted. Sorry for interrupting, Your Honor. I was actually going to touch on those two things, Your Honor.

Okay. And then in that case, proceed, counsel.

Yes.

So, ang nakalagay po sa summary is either no dividend declared, tama?

Tama po.

Or sa iba naman, no information, no AFS final.

No AFS po.

Tama. Correct. Pero sa mga no-dividend declared specifically na mga in-input nyo, ang may correct na walang qualification dun whether the surplus profits of the company already exceeded the paid-in capital. Walang qualification?

Wala po.

Wala din qualification dun sa summaries nyo whether the annual financial statements of the corporation disclose exceptions under section 42 to justify non-declaration of dividends?

Wala po.

Wala po.

In fact, you or the SEC do not have even personal knowledge whether those exceptions were invoked by any of those corporations. Tama po ba?

Check ko lang po yung aking notes.

Please do. For the record, Your Honor, the witness is checking notes.

May we just request a representative from the defense to peruse the memorandum or notes being used by the witness.

Similarly, assisting counsel for the prosecution is authorized to...

Assist and view the documents being perused by the witness.

Wala po sa notes ko.

Okay. At wala din po sa dalawang summaries. Tama po ba?

Wala po.

Maraming salamat, Atty. Del Rosario. Now, yesterday, during the interjections of some of our good senator-judges, you were also asked about what income could the Vice President and Manassas R. Carpio could possibly derive from these corporations given the absence of declaration of dividends. Naalala niyong portion na iyon?

Apo.

But you confirm that the SEC or the Securities and Exchange Commission has no record or information about the income that the Vice President received during the years that she was a private individual and exerciser profession.

Wala naman po tayong recording dyan sa SEC. Wala po kaming ganong informasyon.

And no record as well about the income that was derived by Atty. Manassas R. Carpio in relation to his several years of practice of profession. Tama po ba?

Wala po.

And you confirm as well that the SEC has no record of the compensation income of the Vice President during the years that she was the Vice Mayor, Mayor, and the Vice President or a Public Officer. Tama?

Wala po kaming ganong informasyon.

Wala ding information yung SEC at hindi po ito yung opisina ng gobyerno na nagre-record whether nakantanggap sila ng mga inheritance.

Tama po.

Hindi din sila yung nagre-record whether there was sales of properties, real properties specifically.

Tama po.

At hindi din ito yung institution ng ating gobyerno na nag-a-appraise ng mga value ng mga lupain na nakadeklara sa mga salihin or mga lupain in general.

Hindi po mandato ng aming tanggapan yan.

And all it has, specifically, relative to the possible income of the Vice President and her spouse, are those declarations or non-declarations of dividends which are available in your records. Tama po ba? At yan lang po yung kaya niyong Itestigo sa impeachment court na ito.

Kung

ano lamang po ang laman ng dokumentong na request sa amin, yun lang po ang kaya naming sabihin dito.

Maraming salamat, Atty. Del Rosario. Kahapon din, you were asked about circumstances that could possibly justify bakit po wala yung pangalan ng vicepresidente sa mga general information sheet na in-identify niyo. Specifically, you discussed matters relating to trust agreements. Naalala niyo pa ba yun?

Opo.

Now, this was asked in relation specifically to the corporation GenCorp Industries, Inc. Could you recall that?

Yes, sir.

However, you confirm, sir, that your mention of a trust agreement yesterday was not based on information available to the SEC.

Tama po.

Ito lang po yung opinion nyo base sa experience nyo. bilang isang empleyado at officer sa SEC natin. Tama?

Tama po.

You also confirm, sir, that you have no personal knowledge whether there is any trust agreement between the Vice President or any of the registered shareholders in GenCorp Industries Inc. or other corporations. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

In fact, sir, you can confirm that trust agreements are generally not required to be submitted with the Securities and Exchange Commission Kasi, itong mga agreements na to, between the parties naman. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Pero, yung exception dito ay ang mga voting trust agreements.

Tama.

Tama po. Kasi, sa ilalim ng ating batas, Section 58 of the Revised Corporation Code, kapag may voting trust agreement, dapat sinusumite, specific po yung batas natin, ang certified true copy ng voting trust agreement na yan sa commission or SEC. Tama po ba? Naalala nyo yan?

Tama po.

And you confirm, sir, that in the records that you... Perused and reviewed. For all these corporations, including GenCorp Industries Inc., walang voting trust agreement na CTC na sinumite sa kumpanya niyo.

Wala pong application on that.

So you confirm, sir, that your testimony relating to trust agreements in general or that hypothetical scenario is only based on possibility and speculation. Tama po ba?

Objection.

Misleading, Your Honor.

I am not. I am asking the witness to confirm whether my statement is correct. I am not saying that statement was misleading or speculation. Your Honor,

the witness is not

speculating.

Thank you, Your Honor. Witness is not speculating, Your Honor. He's testifying on the basis of his more than 30 years of experience with the SEC, Your Honor. He's not merely speculating.

If you know... If he knows, counsel, I'll allow it.

Maraming salamat. Thank you, Your

Honor.

If the objection is with respect to the word speculating, then he can, he's a lawyer, he can say whether he is or he's not. Atty.

Delosario, kindly answer.

Yung pong tungkol sa trust agreement ay hindi ko naman po pinapatungkol na meron itong kumpanya na ito. Kundi umiisip lang po, tinatanong ko, kung meron bang posibilidad na nangyayari ito.

So you confirm

possibility or kuru-kuru lang po? Tama? Maraming salamat, Atty. Del Rosario. Now, Atty. Del Rosario, sabihin nyo lang po if kailangan kayong uminom ng tubig. Okay

na

po. Nakainom na.

Thank you po. Another way also to check if a person's ownership is in a corporation despite the fact na hindi siya nag-a-appear as shareholder is looking into the Beneficial Ownership Declaration form. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

At noon, sinusummit ito kasama ng GIS at ngayon meron na po tayong harbor system. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now, sa summaries nyo, wala po tayong nilagay na any summary in relation to the names or people declared in those beneficial ownership declaration forms. Tama po ba?

Wala po akong nilagay.

Nevertheless, you confirmed that beneficial ownership declarations only reveal if there is some sort of beneficial or legal ownership. Correct?

Tama po.

Hindi ito nagre-reveal kung meron kang investment sa korporasyon kasi hindi naman ito beneficial ownership. Tama?

Wala po akong... siguro masasabi kong incompetent ako on that dahil hindi po dumaraan sa aking department ang tungkol sa beneficial ownership form.

Okay.

Kaya wala rin po akong nilagay na anumang informasyon dahil... Wala po akong access sa dokumentong iyan.

It's okay, Atty. Maraming salamat po for being candid. I'll just ask if you're aware, given your position. Now, are you aware, dinedeklara ba ang may mga credits sa Beneficial Ownership Form? Halimbawa, may utang sa iyo yung korporasyon. Kailangan ka bang ilagay ng korporasyon doon?

Hindi nga. Incompetent po ako dyan dahil hindi ko pa rin po alam kung ano ang mga detalye na nasa forms ng BO declaration.

Okay, my next question is actually, abogado at public officer kayo. Now you are aware that under business disclosure requirement of the SAL-N na nagsusumiti dun po kayo, hindi lang naman limitado sa shareholdings ang dapat i-declare under that disclosure. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

In fact, as a public officer and as a prudent public officer at that, you are aware of the latest 2025 Omnibus SAL-N rules specifically. Section 62, it describes it and defines it as I quote, Nature of business interest or financial connection refers to existing interest or connection in any business enterprise whether as a proprietor, investor, promoter, partner, shareholder, officer, managing director, executive, creditor, lawyer, legal consultant, and then it goes on and the like. Tama po ba? So kahit hindi ka shareholder sa isang kumpanya, kung meron ka nito, Itong i-enumerate and the like, dapat i-deklara pa rin sa business disclosure.

Kung ikaw po ay may interest sa mga bagay niyan at alam mong part siya ng iyong pag-aari o yaman, eh dapat mong ilagay.

Maraming salamat po. Sunod, kahapon, tinanong din po kayo, I just don't recall specifically who, about Section 13, Article 7 of the Constitution. You recall that?

Tama po. Iaalala ko po.

Now, pardon if I have to ask this question po, Atty. Batu, but this is just for the record.

Excuse me, Your Honor, the witness is not Atty. Batu. Pardon,

Your Honor. Atty.

Batu is done with her testimony.

I'm done

with Atty. Batu. My apologies. But I will proceed. Atty. Delosario, rather. As the Executive Director of the SEC, CRMD, it is not your function...

Direktor lang po.

Direktor, sorry. Direktor, it is not your function, of course, to interpret the Constitution.

Opo.

So your interpellation or interjection and comments in relation to Section 13, Article 7 of the Constitution, is based on your own understanding as a lawyer.

Tama po. Yun po ang aking pagkakaunawa sa provision na yan.

And that was your opinion as a lawyer. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

However, you confirm that as a lawyer, Section 13, Article 7 of the Constitution, Atty. Del Rosario, uses the term, and I quote, participate in any business, end of quote. Do you confirm that, sir?

Naka-flash po siya sa screen. Yan po yung nakalagay.

It does not say, and I quote, have interest in any business, end of quote. Correct?

Yan po ako i-correct ni

President Officer Capal.

And it does not say, and I quote, have shares in any corporation, end of quote. Tama po ba?

Wala pong sinabi.

Now yesterday, you also briefly Discussed the prohibition against the conflict of interest under Republic Act 6713 or the Code of Conduct and Ethical Standards for Public Officials and Employees. Naalala niyo? You briefly touched on it.

Wala po akong naalala sa paksa na yan.

Nung tinanong po kayo whether may prohibition po yung mga empleyado to have conflict of interest in businesses. I believe

the question is misleading, Your Honor, because I believe the question was about the local government code pertaining to mayors, governors. If it

all

already answered that the witness does not recall, move on, counsel.

Yes, Your Honor.

I will move on. Now, however, as a lawyer and public official yourself, you are aware of 6713.

Opo.

And you're aware, of course, that the phrase conflict of interest in that law As a technical definition under our laws, tama po ba?

Tinedefine po yung termino na conflict of interest.

Your Honor, I'll have to object because as the witness stated, this was not taken up during his direct examination. So this is irrelevant,

Your Honor. Outside the scope already of the direct examination. We should not unnecessarily prolong the cross-examination, Your Honor. He should move on to his next point.

The witness is a lawyer and testified as to matters pertaining to his interpretation of similar provisions. I'll allow it. Witness may answer. If you know, Atty. Del Rosario, kung alam niyo po. Maray po bang pakibasa talaga?

Yes, papunta. So hindi niyo po mabasa sa distance na niyan?

Hindi po.

Okay, my question is this. Are you aware that under Section 3I of RA 6713, conflict of interest arises when a public official or employee is a member of a board, an officer, or a substantial stockholder of a private corporation or owner or has substantial interest in a business and the interests of such corporation or business or his rights or duties therein may be opposed to or affected by the faithful performance of official duty. Are you aware of that provision?

Tama po yan.

And it mentions substantial stockholder.

May binabanggit

pong substantial stockholder.

Opo.

Tama po.

You are also not competent to determine whether the vice president in any of these corporations have substantial interest. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

You are limited to what these documents show. Correct?

Tama po.

You also have no personal knowledge whether the alleged interest of the vice president in any of these corporations may be, and I quote, opposed to or affected by the faithful performance of her duties. And then, end of quote. Correct?

Sa dokumento po, wala po.

And there is no prohibition in fact. For a public officer's spouse to have any interest in a corporation or business. Tama po ba?

Wala naman po.

And no prohibition on their spouse to practice their profession. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And no prohibition for businesses that are related to their spouse to have contracts with government agencies. Tama po ba?

Expressly under the law.

Which law, Your Honor? And perhaps the witness should be shown a copy of the law for...

If he is aware, Your Honor, I'm referring to 6713.

Which specific part, Your Honor?

Because what is being shown is merely Section 9 and Letter I under that. So he doesn't have a full copy of the law.

If he doesn't, then he may answer accordingly. Kung hindi niyo po alam, Atty. Del Rosario, sabihin niyo lang po. Okay lang

po. Pwede po bang i-flash yung Section 7, Article 13 ng Constitution sa second paragraph?

I'm referring to 6713 po.

Dito po, wala po akong nakikita.

Wala naman po. Maraming salamat. Now let's go to, yesterday you were asked also about documents that would possibly show Divestment of the vice president in companies. Ito po yung mga dokumento na baka naman makapakita na nag-divest yung vice president sa kumpanya yan. Naalala nyo?

Meron po. Meron po mga...

Nasabi nyo naman po kahapon. And you recall that you also mentioned that in some of the corporation, in the subsequent general information sheets, hindi na po reflected as stockholder si vice president.

Meron pong ganong information.

And in other questions by our good Senator-Judges or the Council for Prosecution, apologies, I could not remember which one specifically, you were also asked about the fact that in Calilung 88's Foods Corporation, particularly in the year 2025, Manasis R. Carpio is no longer a stockholder.

Do

you confirm that based on your summary or documents?

Sa Calilung 88 Foods Corporation, ano pong taon?

2025 po.

2025, Manas Escarpio, does not appear as director or stockholder.

Sa prior years nag-appear siya, kaya may mga tanong dyan, di ba?

Tama po.

Okay. Now, you confirmed that ordinarily po, Atty. Del Rosario, the SEC does not require the submissions of copies of deed of assignments of shares of stock to support change in the ownership of shares na nare-reflect sa ating general information sheet.

Iri-require po namin yan. Generally, hindi. Pero meron pong requirements yan kung ito ay pinambayad mo ng equity. Which must be transferred in the name of the corporation. Correct. And

you confirmed that even under Securities Exchange Memorandum Circular No. 17, Series of 2004, the SEC no longer recognizes the recording of a deed of assignment of shares of stock with respect to any legal benefit to the corporation or the person involved. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Under that SEC Memorandum Circular, in fact, what controls po is the transfer of shares that are recorded by the corporate secretary in the stock and transfer book of the corporation. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And you confirmed that the SEC would not have any information record relating to any registration of deed of assignment of shares of stock in any of the corporations po na tinalakay niyo since the custody of Stock and transfer books or STBs are with the corporation's corporate secretary.

Tama po.

In other words, you are incompetent, Atty. Delosario, to testify whether there was divestment, transfer of shares in relation to any of these corporations as appearing in the STB. As appearing in the STB. That's my question, Your Honor.

On

the STB po, wala po kaming access on that.

Maraming salamat. Yesterday, You also identified incorporation documents of several corporations that you certified and transmitted to the House of Representatives. Do you recall that?

Yes po.

And by incorporation documents, we are referring to certificates of incorporation, correct?

Tama po.

Articles of incorporation, correct?

Tama po.

Corporate bylaws, tama po ba?

Tama

po.

Now, to name a few, specifically, ang in-identify niyo ay sa Metro City Chow Foods Corp., Madayo Fisheries, Inc., Amianan Shores, Inc. Tama po ba?

Tama po yan.

Now you confirm that these are in the records of or on file with the SEC because these are documents submitted to the SEC by these corporations in relation to incorporation.

Tama po.

In other words, the documents issued by or pwede din naman po ito po yung mga dokumento na ini-issue ng SEC kaugnay sa incorporasyon ng isang kumpanya kagaya ng Certificate of Incorporation. Tama po ba?

Tama po. Yan po ang ini-issue namin.

However, you confirm, sir, that besides what appears in these documents, po, the SEC does not have any personal knowledge in relation to agreements between incorporators in relation to the setting up of a corporation.

Wala po kaming kidalaman doon.

You also confirm that the SEC has no personal knowledge on the intended business operation scale besides the primary and secondary purpose, if any, declared in the Articles of Incorporation.

kung ano lang po ang nasa article siya po ang pininiwalaan naming negosyo niya.

Wala din pong record or information yung Securities and Exchange Commission natin kung saan nanggaling yung pera para sa initial paid up capital stock of each incorporator. Tama?

Wala po.

Wala din po kayong personal knowledge or information in relation to the amount of the... as to why... There is an initial proportion in the initial subscription of shares for each incorporator. Bakit po? 25-25-25 or 50-25-25? Hindi niyo po alam kung bakit ganyan yung setup.

Hindi po namin alam.

Ang alam niyo lang, ni-report yung stockholding structure. Tama po ba?

Sinood po nila yung patakaran at time yung 25-25.

Correct. And yung patakaran na yan, hindi naman po nag-a-apply na ngayon. Tama po ba?

Hindi na po.

Okay. So to confirm, the SEC has no personal knowledge or information.

Tama po.

Tama po.

in relation to the GIS themselves or the summaries. Do you recall that?

Opo.

You confirmed that ito po mga general information sheets, para lang po maintindahan natin lahat, ito po ang mga reports na sinusumite ng corporation sa SEC as required by law. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And under Section 177B of the Revised Corporation Code, this reportorial requirement is imposed upon the corporation. Tama?

Tama po.

And you confirm that this statutory obligation is not imposed upon stockholders, directors, or officers of the corporation?

Naka

-imposed

po sa corporate secretary ng

kumpanya.

Correct.

The only exception is the corporate secretary who is required to certify and swear under oath the contents of a general information sheet.

Tama po.

But it is not the corporate secretary who is under the law obligated to File a GIS kasi sa korporasyon naman po yan. Clarification lang po.

Opo.

Okay. And you confirmed that this is the principle or ito po yung framework natin kasi may separate and distinct personality naman po yung korporasyon sa mga stockholders, directors, and officers natin. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And you therefore confirmed that the GIS as viewed under the law originates from the corporation. Tama?

Tama po.

and submitted by the corporation to the SEC. Tama?

Tama po.

And in all the GIS you identified yesterday, you confirmed that the vice president was never a corporate secretary.

Opo.

None of these GISs, accordingly, were sworn upon by the vice president herself. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And you testified yesterday that a domestic stock corporation is also required to submit GISs on specific periods.

Tama po.

Isa po dito, generally, within 30 calendar days from the date of actual stockholders and the conduct of the annual stockholders meeting. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Yung iba naman, may mga specific corporate changes na, if I'm not mistaken, within 7 days should be reported to the SEC. Tama po ba?

Tama po. Now you confirm that besides what appears on the face of the general information sheet,

the

Securities and Exchange Commission po does not have any knowledge or information

Wala po kaming informasyon ng dati.

What

kind of information he's asking?

Your Honor, I think my question was clear, Your Honor. If the witness knows, Your Honor. I think

he's referring generally, counsel. Witness may answer if he

knows. Alam niyo po, Atty. Del Rosario?

Wala po kami personal information kung ano po ang nangyayari sa kanila.

Now, you even confirm, Atty. Del Rosario, na hindi naman nire-require yung mga korporasyon natin na magsumiti ng minutes of the meeting ng kahit anong corporate meeting. Tama po ba?

Opo.

Now yesterday, you were made to confirm that based on the summary you prepared and the corporate documents from 2022-2025 specifically, declared the Vice President as a member of the Board of Directors of Metro City Chow Foods Corporation. Naalala nyo yun?

Opo.

Now you were also made to confirm that the Vice President from 2022-2025 is a member of the Compensation Committee as reflected in your summary?

Opo. Yan po ang nakalagay sa GIS.

However, you confirm, given your answers to my earlier questions, that the SEC has no personal knowledge whether the Vice President did in fact participate or attend in any of the meetings of the Board of Directors in these years. Tama

po.

You also have no, in fact, you do not have any minutes of the meeting of the Board of Directors of Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, whether special, regular, or organizational meeting, which would show that the Vice President participated or attended. Tama po ba?

Wala po kaming information on that.

You can also confirm that the SEC has no personal knowledge whether the Vice President did in fact participate or attend in any of the meetings of the Compensation Committee of Metro City Chow Foods Corporation in the years 2022 to 2025. Correct?

No information po on that.

In fact, you do not have any minutes of the meeting of the Compensation Committee of Metro City Chow Foods Corporation which would otherwise show that the Vice President participated or attended its meetings. Tama po ba?

Opo.

Further, please confirm that the SEC has no personal knowledge or information whether the Vice President is involved in the day-to-day operations of any of the corporations. Sixteen, if I remember correctly.

Wala po akong, wala po kaming ganung informasyon.

And you also have no information or personal knowledge whether the Vice President actively, is actively involved in the management or decision-making of any of these sixteen corporations.

And the

SEC has no personal knowledge or information based on its records that the Vice President had any participation in the review submission of any of the general information sheets including those submitted by Metro City Child Foods Corporation.

And

the SEC also has no personal knowledge or information whether the Vice President is even aware of the filing of these General Information Sheets by the Corporations. Correct?

Maari po. Hindi po niya alam. Ba't hindi po siyang meron pong nag-file para sa kumpanya.

Maraming salamat po, Atty. Del Rosario. Puntahan naman po natin yung mga audited financial statements. Kahapon, sa mga summary at mga dokumentong pinakita ng proseksyon sa inyo, pinakita po kayo ng mga AFS of these corporations to name a few. City Hall, King Chow Foods Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation. Gencorp Industry Inc. Do you recall that? Yung mga usually nasa likuran sila sa summary nyo. Apo. Now, during your direct examination, you were made to enumerate ang mga sales of these corporations as opposed to their net income, retained earnings, deficit, and sa last portion ng column, dividends declare. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Now, let's clarify. In relation to the annual audited financial statements of the corporation, You confirm, sir, that the SEC only reviews submissions of these AFSS for purposes of corporate compliance, completeness, and reporting rules. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

But you confirm, sir, that it is actually the Bureau of Internal Revenue that cross-checks those audited financial statements as against reported tax returns or books of accounts of a corporation. Tama po ba?

Tama po. Sa pag-ubahit ng bubis sila.

So you cannot determine whether you are not competent to testify today whether there are irregularities or misrepresentations in any of the audited financial statements. You can only confirm whether they are filed.

Kung ano po ang naka-file sa amin, yun lang po ang pinaniwalaan at

sinabit dito. In fact, you are not aware as a representative of the SEC whether these audited financial statements you identified today and yesterday by these corporations were even flagged by the Bureau of Internal Revenue in relation to any tax regulation compliance. Tama? Wala

po kaming information on that.

Further, you confirm, sir, that these audited financial statements are financial statements, again, of the corporation and not by the stockholders. Tama?

Para po sa korporasyon.

Audited financial statement siya ng korporasyon, hindi ng direktor. Tama?

Tama po.

Audited financial statement siya ng korporasyon at hindi ng mga opisyalis na nakadeklara sa GIS. Tama?

Objection,

Your Honor. Ask and answered. It's just merely enumerating people. It's the

same line of questioning. Your Honor, that would be presumptuous from the prosecution. I'm trying to confirm this from the witness. I am an examination. It's not the same question, counsel. Thank you, Your

Honor.

Witness may

answer.

Tama po.

And again, this follows the principle that a corporation has a separate and distinct personality from its stockholders, correct?

Tama po.

From its directors, correct?

Tama po.

From its officers. Correct?

Tama po.

Thus, any sale, revenue, or loss indicated in these audited financial statements belong to the corporation, not its stockholders.

Asked and answered.

That was different, Your Honor. My prior question was where the AFS come from. I'm referring particularly in the contents of the AFS this time.

It's okay. Witness may answer.

Para po sa

kumpanya ito.

So... You also confirmed that the income reflected in this audited financial statement hindi po ito sa vicepresidente pero sa korporasyon na nag-report. Tama?

Tama po. Sa kumpanya.

And you cannot confirm whether based on that net income reported may natanggap ang vicepresidente dyan. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

And similarly, any net losses reflected in an audited financial statement belongs to the corporation and not the stockholder, for example, the vicepresident. Correct?

Tama po.

And you confirmed that you cannot see whether those net losses as reflected in an audited financial statement is conclusive evidence that the Vice President or any stockholder for that matter incurred losses in relation to his stockholdings or investments. Correct?

Para po sa korporasyon nito.

And you confirmed that the SEC has no personal knowledge whether the Vice President participated in the preparation of all the audited financial statements you identified.

Asked

and answered.

Participation, Your Honor, in

the preparation.

Witness may

answer. Wala po kaming ganung informasyon.

The SEC also has no personal knowledge whether the Vice President or Manassas R. Carpio participated in the approval of these annual financial statements by the Board of Directors.

Wala po kaming ganung informasyon.

The SEC also has no personal knowledge or information whether the Vice President or Manassas R. Carpio were present in the stockholders when these audited financial statements were presented to the stockholders.

Wala rin po kaming gano'ng informasyon.

And also, the SEC has no personal knowledge whether the Vice President or Manassas R. Carpio are aware of the filing of these audited financial statements.

Wala rin po kaming gano'ng informasyon.

No further questions, Your Honor. Any redirect,

Atty. Erwin?

Redirect, yes, Your Honor.

You may proceed,

Sir, when you're ready.

Atty. Del Rosario, kanina nabanggit na naman po, nabalik sa diskusyon, itong GenCorp Industries, Inc. Nabanggit ho na hindi malinaw kung anong interest ni VP Sara sa kumpanyang ito. Ito po ba ay dahil confidential yung information?

Objection, Your Honor. Misleading.

If he knows, Atty.

Del Rosario, if you know.

Well, wala po kasing pangalan si... I-check ko lang po yung notes ko.

Kindly do so Atty. Del Rosario.

Sa

GenCorp Industries, Inc., wala po kasing pangalan si VP Sara Duterte. from incorporation up to the filing of JIS. Yun po ang nakalagay sa aking summary.

That's the witnesses' answer, Attorney Erwin.

Thank you, Your Honor. And then, pinakita po sa inyo kanina yung Section 62 tungkol sa pag-declare kung ano yung dapat isama ng isang government official about, I believe, May we ask the defense to flash the section again?

We can, your honor.

Thank you.

Thank you for your accommodation, attorney Justin.

May we just request the tech booth to flash it, your honor.

Can the tech please flash section 62 of the omnibus rules?

There you go, attorney Aaron.

There's a subparagraph that was flashed earlier. I think it's a nice line if I could

help the prosecution.

On conflict of interest, attorney Aaron?

They showed this and another one. Yes,

this is the correct slide. So, nakalagay po dyan na obligasyon ng government official na ilagay kung ano yung nature ng kanyang business interest o financial connection sa kumpanya. Tama po ba?

Objection. Misleading, Your Honor. That doesn't appear in the provision. There is no requirement to declare the nature of the business, Your Honor. That's the definition of what a nature of business interest or financial connection is. It

merely defines, counsel. Go to your question. I think I know where you're getting at, Atty. Rin.

So tama po ba na ang nature ng business interest or financial connection ay as stated here, kung ano man pong iba pang ginawa niya. So hindi lang yung pagiging shareholder. Ang kasama sa nature of business interest or financial connection, tama po ba?

May we ask that the prosecutor specifically refer to the particular portion of the provision being asked?

Based on, allow the chair, based on this provision, Atty. Del Rosario, can you answer the question of Atty. Erwin?

Gusto niyo po palakihan natin? Sige po. Kindly zoom it in. May we request the tech to zoom it in, please?

Aling...

Ang katanungan po yata ay, base po sa probisyong ito, ang depenisyon ng interes ay hindi lamang bilang shareholder. Posibleng may ibang kapasidad pa na nakabilang sa nakalista po dito.

Opo. Whether as proprietor, investor, promoter, partner, shareholder po. Okay.

Atty. Erwin?

So, napakarami po na maaaring maging nature kung ano man yung business interest. ng isang tao in connection with the corporation. Tama po ba yan? Tama po.

So kung sakaling nakalagay po kasi dito, creditor, so kung nagpa-utang yung government official, kailangan niyang i-deklara.

Opo, kung pag-aari po niya, pera niya yan.

So part 2 siya ng business interest. And pati nga po kung siya ay

Nagsusupply ng services katulad ng business consultancy or

kung abogado siya at nagsusupply siya ng legal services sa kumpanya. Ayon dito sa Section 62. Ayon po dito. Okay, salamat.

Ngayon, balikan natin yung mga filing sa SEC na nabanggit kanina. Unahin po natin yung mga general information sheets. Napansin ko ho kasi na yung mga exhibits, yung mga general information sheets ay notaryado.

Tama po. Ano ho bang ibig sabihin kung yung isang dokumento ay notaryado?

Ibig sabihin lang po noon na pinununumpaan niya ang bawat informasyon na nakalagay doon sa ayon sa kanyang paniniwala at nalalaman.

At in other words, kailangan totoo yung dapat nasa GIS. Tama po ba yan?

Dapat po.

Ano ang consequence kung hindi man naging totoo yung mga nakalagay sa general information sheet?

Una po, may provision sa amin sa RCC na yung lawfully submitting erroneous documents, reports, violation po yan. At pangalawa, yung perjury kung ikaw ay nagsisinungaling at alam mo namang mali.

So, mabigat po pala yung kaparusahan kung hindi pala totoo yung mga nakalagay sa general information sheet.

Objection, Your Honor.

Apologies. Again, with all due respect to the good counsel for the prosecutor, his once again interjected conclusions.

Move on, move

on,

counsel.

So, itong general information sheet, nabanggit niyo na ito ay, sino pong pumipirma sa GIS?

Ang corporate secretary po.

Ang corporate secretary. At sino po ang nag-a-appoint ng corporate secretary?

Ang board of directors po.

Ang board of directors. Tuwing kailan po ina-appoint ang corporate secretary?

During the annual meeting po.

Anytime po ba pwedeng palitan ang corporate secretary ng board? Sinsila naman nag-a-appoint?

Pag po gusto ng board, maaari po nilang gawin yan. Pwedeng palitan.

Ano po yung mga instances na pwedeng mapalitan yung corporate secretary?

Siguro po isang loss of confidence. Ayaw nila yung the way mag-report. Yung compliance ng kumpanya, hindi ninyo nasasubmit. Yan po yung mga ibang paraan kung bakit papalitan siya.

Tignan nga po natin yung mga general information sheets ng Metro City Chow Foods Corporation.

For

the record, we are showing to the witness copies of the GIS of Metro City Chow Foods Corporation.

Standing authority for assisting counsels, the approach has been given by the presiding officer.

Pakisabi po kung sino ang corporate secretary ng kumpanyang yan.

Base sa unang GIS.

Sa JS po ng Metro City Chow Food Corporation as of period covered is June 5, 2018.

Ang nakapangalan bilang corporate secretary po ay Gurley S. Delacruz.

Gurley S. Delacruz.

Pakicheck nga po yung

mga sumusunod na general information sheets kung siya pa rin po ba yung nakalagay dyan ng corporate secretary.

Sa May 6, 2019, Metro City Chow Food Corporation, GIS.

Sa

page 11, meron pong Gurley S. Delacruz, Corporate Secretary of Metro City Chow Food Corporation.

Pakitignan na lang po lahat. Lahatan na. Pakicheck po kung siya ba sa lahat ng mga general information sheets para sa mga taong 2018 hanggang 2025.

Lahat po ng GIS ay nasa pinirmahan ni Gurley Delacruz.

Napalitan po ba siya bilang corporate secretary para sa mga taong iyan, para sa kumpanyang Metro City Chow Foods?

Well, ayon po sa dokumento, wala pong pagbabago. Maaring hindi po siya napalitan. Hindi

siya napalitan. In fact, tama ba na actually si Gurley de la Cruz ay corporate secretary din ng iba pang mga kumpanya?

Siguro po, i-check ko lang po yung records kung...

I think meron po tayong, or hindi man na corporate secretary, pero siya ay...

Incorporator or stockholder din, based sa nagawa ninyong summary on the table pertaining to incorporators,

stockholders.

Meron po kayong summary na by name.

Pahanap po yung pangalan ni Gurley S. De La Cruz sa inyong incorporators declared in the EOI by incorporator and I think this is on page 7,

2026.

Ando na po ba kayo? Sa page 7 of 2026, sa pangalan ng Gurley S. De La Cruz. So based po dyan, incorporator po siya para sa mga aling kumpanya.

Well, ayon po dito, si Gurley S. De La Cruz ay incorporator ng Davao New Royal Taipan Foods Corporation, GenCorp Industries, JTC Group of Companies Philippines, Metro City Chow Food Corporation,

B-Food Corporation.

Okay. So, Incorporator din po siya sa limang kumpanyang nabanggit niyo.

To clarify, ito yung Andrew Lozario, limang kumpanya lang po? MetroCity Chow, GenCorp, Times Square, B-Foods, Davao New Royal, and JTC?

Tama po. Davao New Royal, GenCorp, JTC Group of Companies, MetroCity Chow, at Times Square B.

Doon lang po siya shareholder?

Incorporator po.

Incorporator. Incorporator lang po.

Proceed, counsel.

Yes, your honor. Ngayon, pinag-usapan din ang articles of incorporation. Ah, sorry, ang audited financial statements. Kanina, no, na-bring up po. Ano po ba ang ibig sabihin kung ang financial statements ay audited?

Asking for opinion, your honor.

If he knows, counsel, he receives the submissions. He should know what it means.

Well, ang audited financial statement po ay yung structured data about financial condition ng isang korporasyon kung saan na ito ay sinuri pa ng isang external auditor. Malaman kung ang mga accounting standards ay nasunod.

Kanina po galing yung financial information na nakalagay sa audited FS?

Nanggaling

po sa kumpanya. And then, ano po ang gagawin ng external auditor?

Well, ibabalidate po niya kung ang mga information is in accordance with the Proscribed accounting standards.

Punta nga tayo sa isang example ng audited financial statements.

Particularly, Your Honor, we would like to show Exhibit P-R2-2-6-2-H which is the audited financial statements for the year 2024.

For Metro City Chow Foods Corporation.

Hawak ko na po.

Hawak niyo na. Ngayon, puntahan niyo yung page 4 ng audited financial statements.

Okay, ando na po ba kayo sa page 4?

Nando na po. Ano yung title ng document na lumalabas dyan sa page 4?

Ito po yung Statement of Management Responsibility for Financial Statements.

Pwede ba natin basahin yung first paragraph ng statement na yan?

Ayon po dito sa SMR ng Metro City Chow Food Corporation, the management of Metro City Chow Food Corporation is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statement for the years ended December 31, 2024 and 2023 in accordance with the prescribed financial reporting framework indicated therein.

And

for such internal control, as punishment determined is necessary to enable the preparation of financial statement that are free from material statement whether due to fraud or error.

Sige po. Punta po tayo sa pangatlo na paragraph. Ano pong sinasabi sa linyang yan?

The board of directors is responsible for overseeing the company's financial reporting process.

How about yung susunod po na linya? Pakibasa po.

The Board of Directors review and approve the financial statements and submit the same to the stockholders. To the what po?

Stockholders po. Stockholders.

Napansin ko po na notaryado itong Statement of Management Responsibility.

Tama po ba?

Oo, may notary po.

So, sworn statement din po ito kung ganun?

Oo po,

yun po ang nakalagay.

So, ano po ba itong Statement of Management Responsibility? At bakit po ito kailangan?

Isa po ito sa mga, well, requirement para tanggapin namin ang financial statement ng isang kumpanya. Kasama nga narin po rito yung unang binanggit kahapon about the stamp, the receiving ng BAR. Ito po yung pangalawa na tinitingnan namin na dapat maging parte ng financial statement. Ang nagsasabi na ang accountability dito ay ang board of trustees o directors.

Ano po ulit? Ang accountability ay?

Ang board of directors po.

So sila po ang accountable?

Base rin po sa nakasulat dito.

Ngayon, puntahan natin yung notes dyan sa financial statements na iyan.

Punta tayo sa page 13.

Page 13, nandun po ba kayo? Note 1, corporate information?

Opo.

Pwede ba nating basahin yung second paragraph ng note 1 na iyan?

Ayon po sa second paragraph nito, the accompanying financial statements of the company as at and for the day, years 2024 and 2023 were approved and authorized by its Board of Directors on March 31, 2025.

Ano po

ang ibig sabihin

na yan? Ibig sabihin lang po nito ay yung financial statement nito ay inaproobahan at inauthorized ng Board of Directors sa Petyang March 31, 2025.

Thank

you. At ano ko ang interest ulit o role ni VP Sara sa Metro City Chow Foods Corporation?

Objection, Your Honor. Hasn't answered. And already answered that he has no personal knowledge.

No, on Metro Chow. Based on the documents submitted. Yes, sir.

Witness may answer?

Ayon po sa general information sheet ng Metro City Chow Foods Corporation from 2018 to 2025 nag-a-appear po na si VP Sara Duterte po ay member of the Board of Directors at stockholder ng nasabing kumpanya.

Thank you.

At based po sa Section 22 ng Revised Corporation Code, ano pa ang sinasabi ng section na ito tungkol sa Board of Directors?

Well, ang Board of Directors po ang

Siya po ang section

22 po is about

Maaari ko ba kayong bigyan ng kopya ng revised corporation code section 2020 ah para mabasa niyo ang section 22.

To exercise corporate powers yung post siguro yan.

First paragraph lang ako.

For the record, assisting counsel is showing Attorney Del Rosario a copy of the revised corporation code RCC for brevity.

Section 22 of RCC, the Board of Directors or Trustee of the Corporation, Qualification.

So

anong ibig sabihin niyang nabasa ninyo?

So

may

control ang board sa properties na mapuba?

Opo.

Meron po ba kayong natanggap? Tinatanong po kanina na itong mga GIS or AFS ay mga filings galing sa corporations. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Nakatanggap po ba kayo ever ng any information mula sa mga kumpanya based sa mga sinertify nyo na documents na may mali o may dapat baguhin sa mga nakadeklara doon?

With respect po sa request for Correction. Wala po. Pero meron pong amendments. Hindi ko lang po alam kung dahil sa pagkakamali o meron lang po silang i-update.

Okay. So that would be all for Redirect, Your Honor.

Henry Cross, Maturin Justin.

Sorry, Your Honor. Just a few questions.

First, kanina sa Redirect examination, kinumpirman niyo na ang audited financial statement ay aprobado ng Board of Directors. Tama po ba? Ayon po sa nakasulat sa financial statement

ng kumpanya.

Pero hindi din naman kayo aware whether nag-participate yung vice-presidente sa pag-aproba nito?

Well, on personal knowledge, kung merong nangyaring ganito, hindi po namin alam but we just rely on what is written in the document.

In fact, quorum lang naman po yung required para ma-approve yung audited financial statement. Hindi kailangan lahat ng director. Tama po ba? Depende

po sa provision nila sa articles. Kung kinakailangan ng higher quorum, then they should respect the higher quorum. Correct. Pero kung basic na basic, it should be majority.

Maraming salamat. Naupuntahan po natin yung eleksyon ng corporate secretary. Ito po ay ginagawa sa ating organizational meeting. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

At hindi nyo rin po alam whether nag-participate yung vice-presidente sa organizational meeting.

Tama po.

At pwede naman po na hindi lahat ng mga stockholder or board of directors mag-participate sa mga annual meetings. Tama po ba?

Tama po.

Last question, kilala niyo ba si Gurley de la Cruz personally?

Hindi po.

No further questions.

We now proceed to the interjections of Senator Judges. Hopefully, we can finish with the Attorney de la Rosaria before lunch and move on to the next witness, Mr. Supena, when we resume after lunch. The first to register is Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo.

You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Ito po sa ating testigo. Mr. Witness, itong JTC Group of Companies, ito po ba yung ibig sabihin po ng JTC's Jaime Tan Cruz?

Wala pong disclosure sa Articles of Incorporation under the corporate name na JTC stands for Jaime T. Cruz.

Okay.

May mga nakikita po ba kayo sa inyong dokumento po sa SEC? na either Incorporator or Board of Director si Jaime Tan Cruz sa City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation.

Silipin ko lang po sandali yung aking notes.

Sige po.

Meron po.

Alright. Sa Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, lumalabas diba ang pangalan ng Jaime Tan Cruz?