October 9, 2026

Titignan po ngayong audit after the conduct of audit kung meron po ba talagang violation po. But sa ngayon po, Your Honor, sa ngayon po ang alam ko lang po is may ganun pong na-receive ng 2023 po, Your Honor.

As we speak po ba, ma'am, ongoing pong audit ng ika nga kay VP Sara at sa kanyang husband sa kanilang income tax returns?

Yes po, Your Honor.

Alright. Kailan po ma'am? Kambi po tayo sa Cale88 naman po ma'am. Kailan po nag-register sa BIR ang Cale88?

Your Honor, may I refer to my notes pa?

Please.

Based pa sa BIR records, nag-register po yung Cale88 sa BIR ng October 15, 2021 po.

2021. Base po sa financial statements ng Cale88. Maliban po sa sales nila, ano po po ang pwedeng maging source nila ng pera ng mga panahon na iyon, ma'am? Did they include it there?

Pwede po ba akong makahingi ng copy ng kanilang audited financial statements po?

Sige

po.

Would the assisting counsel be able to help out?

And I have one last question, Mr. Presiding Officer, to give way to the other senator judges.

May I know kung anong year

po?

2021-2022 po. Or hanggang 2026.

Balikan na lang po natin ma'am para in the interest of time. Ang isa pa pong katanungan ko, yung Kale po. Is it Kale or Kalye? Kasi naguguluhan po eh. Or Kale? Does it mean to say yung Kale po na yun is Carpio-Lebosada dahil ika nga joint venture po itong? business na ito sa pagitan ni Carpio and Lebusada. Ma'am?

Wala pong nakalagay sa audited financial statements regarding that. Ang nakalagay lang po is Cale88.

Cale. C-A, then capital letter yung L po ulit, di ba? 10-E. So, Cale. So, parang two words. Go ahead, ma'am. Meron na po ba kahit one year lang po? Ano pong other income?

Kahit na isang taon lang po, 2022. Say 2022 po.

2020.

Or kung ano po merong record kayo dyan sa harap po ninyo?

Ang nakalagay po dito ay engage in the business to make or manufacture, process, sell, trade, and export food products to bring new and exciting products to the local and international company and engage po sila

in the manufacture of food products specifically as an export producer of banana chips po.

So, it's all export po.

My question kasi po is, aside from export, meron pa po bang iba? Kasi we know that they're exporting. Yun po yung diniklara po nila. Yung income po nila from exports. That's why they get ikang remittances overseas dahil nga po doon sa export.

Yun lang po yung nakalagay dito, Your Honor.

Alright. Thank you po, Madam Witness. Presiding Officer, maraming salamat po.

Thank you very much, Senator Judge Tulfo. Senator Judge Hontiveros is recognized. You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. You have two minutes.

Thereafter,

Senator Judge Raffy Tulfo.

Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon po, Atty. Anne.

Magandang hapon po, ma'am. Your Honor.

Base po sa records ng BIR, magkano po yung total sales ng Cale88 mula 2021 hanggang 2025?

Ang

total sales po ay, based po sa BIR records, may total sales po na 208,493,545 pesos po.

Okay, 208

million pesos plus. Sabi naman po kasi ng Anti-Money Laundering Council, 776 million pesos ang inflows sa Cale88, at least na may.

covered transaction reports at saka suspicious transaction reports. Yun lang naman yung mga inireports sa AMLC. So of course, posibleng may lampas pa doon, iba pang perang pumasok. Iniimbestigahan na po ba ng BIR yung mga inflows na yon? Yung mga na-cover ng covered at suspicious transaction reports?

Ang kasama po kasi sa checklist ng letters of authority, meron pong specific documents. And yung bank records po is not one of them since it is covered by bank secrecy. But if the taxpayer po voluntarily shows or submits such documents to the BIR, dun po nga yun makikita kung may mga, kung ano po yung mga inflows na yun, ma'am.

Your

Honor. Ah, so pero kung yung account holder na malamang hindi alam or supposed to be hindi alam kung nagkaroon ng Covered transaction report or suspicious transaction report ang anumang transaction niya ay hindi mag-voluntaryo. Is there no other way or is there a way na mapag-alaman pa rin ng BIR yung findings ng AMLC at maimbestigahan ito or wala?

Ang alam ko po ay meron pong coordination ang BIR and AMLC to deter yung mga violating taxpayers on that. So may ganun pong coordination po.

Alright po.

Kaya ko po itinatanong ito ay dahil ni-review din po ng opisina ko yung ibang foreign-based companies na nagpadala ng pera sa Cale88. Maliban dun sa mga nakabase sa China. So ito po yung CTRs and STRs from other countries na kinull ng Court Secretariat ayon dun sa motion or request ni Sen. Judge Migs. And lumalabas na at least isa doon ay posibleng sangkot sa money laundering activities.

Dito po sa country Ukraine, The Cale88 list of foreign transactions identifies a Ukrainian remitter by the name of Arkmen LLC using registration number 41423974. The address stated in the list is Zoryana 3A, Tseboliv, Ukraine. May mga earlier transactions po na nagre-refer sa Haharina Street 30 pero na-confirm naman po namin na Parehong address po yun. Lumang pangalan lang nung kaya yung haharina. Bagong pangalan. Yung winding up this first question, Mr. Presiding Officer, yung Zoriana. Pero basically parehong address to. At itong registration number 41423974 at yung address Zoriana 30A ay nagko-correspond sa isang kumpanya involved sa isang criminal proceeding na binuksan po nung May 19, 2025 para sa fraud and money laundering kaugnay ng 1.225 million euros. Nung March 2026, yung Pechersky District Court of Kiev ordered a search of Arkmen's premises in April 2026. Ordered

a freeze of the suspect's 100% shareholding in ARCMEN. At yung huling inward remittance po nitong ARCMEN LLC sa Cale88 ay nung May 30, 2025 na pagkatapos na po ng petsa ng pagsisimula ng criminal proceedings. So yung huling tanong ko sa round na ito sa inyo, Atty. Anne,

Kung sabi natin may mga lehitimong transaksyon naman sa likod ng mga international remittances na ito sa pagitan ng ARCMEN LLC at saka Cale88, tama po ba dapat na ni-report yan bilang sales ng Cale88 at dapat pinagbayaran nila ng tax?

Kung ito po ay, sorry, kung ito po ay sales po, then it should have been reported po in the annual income tax return po.

Alright. And kung sakaling yung coordination na binanggit nyo kanina sa pagitan ng BIR at AMLC ay either ini-investigate na ito, maaaring, maaaring, yun yung isang tatanungin kung na-report na nga po yung ganitong mga sales.

Yes, for your honor.

We'll take

note of that.

Salamat po, Atty. Anna. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer, till last few questions for the second round. Salamat po.

Thank you, Senator Judge Hontiveros. Senator Judge Raffy is recognized.

You have two minutes, sir.

Sa prosecution mo, nang tanong ko ano.

During the direct examination yesterday, you did ask the witness about a certain BIR Form 2316 that indicates that the BP-SARA received compensation from the City of Davao. Tama?

Yes, Your Honor.

This was apparently for legal activities. Do you confirm?

Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. Kay Madam Witness. Madam Witness? As a follow-up dun sa question ni Senator Erwin, nabanggit mo kanina employer ang nagbigay ng pera kay BP Sara. I would assume the employer would have been the City of Davao.

Tama po.

Magkaano po yung ibinayad kay BP Sara for legal fees ba ang tawag noon?

Or legal activities?

Your Honor,

yung sa BIR Form 2316 po pertains to the compensation income po.

Kaya nga sa 2023, magkano po?

Based po dito sa BIR, Form 2316, may gross compensation po na P82,327.45 po.

Okay. Yan po ay para sa legal activities. Ano po yung legal activities na yon? Ano pong ibig sabihin noon?

Your Honor, this pertains po sa gross compensation po. Compensation

income.

Sweldo po.

Kaya nga, tumanggap siya ng sweldo sa City of Davao for legal fees niya.

As a lawyer?

Ay, hindi po, Your Honor. As mayor po at ito, 2023.

2023,

at that time, BP na po siya. So, tumanggap siya ng pera mula sa...

Hindi ko

po masasabi, Your Honor, kung ano po yung... Basta nakalagay lang po kasi dito, Your Honor, ay gross compensation income.

Income, hindi as BP, kundi as from the City of Davao, nakatanggap siya ng legal, fiscal sa legal activities. Madam Witness, kayo bilang isang abogado, aware mo ba kayo sa Article 7, Section 13? Alam niyo po ba yan?

Sa Constitution po. Yes po, yung kahapon pa na.

Sige po, ano po ang nakapalob sa Article 7, Section 13 bilang isang abogado?

From my recollection po, the President, Vice President, and certain officers of the government are not allowed to practice, profession, or participate in any government contracts or contracts with any government agency or GOCC or instrumentality po.

So in other words, di siya pwedeng makatanggap ng double compensation, something like that. Na bilang BP siya, hindi siya pwedeng tumanggap ng ibang trabaho outside of being BP, so di siya pwedeng tumanggap ng sweldo in this case for legal activities, parang ganoon.

Tama po.

Now, precisely, Mr. Presiding Officer, ang hindi ko po maarok, si BP Sara ay isang mapanuring abogado. Ang kanyang kabyak si Atty. Mons Carpio ay isang tanyag na abogado at kasapi sa isang dikapanilya law firm ang Carpio Lawyers. And ang kanyang chief of staff ay isang abogado rin. At nakasisiguro po tayo na mayroong pangibang mahusay na abogado sa OVP. Now, bakit kahit isa man lang sa kanila, hindi saulado ang Article 7, Section 13 ng ating konstitusyon? Eh si Ma'am nga, isang pagkarinong abogado, alam niya. Strike 2 na po ito, Mr. Presiding Officer. Kung inyo po matatandaan, dati ko na naitalakay dito ang hindi pag-divest ni VP Sara sa mga kumpanya kung saan siya po ay isa sa mga member ng Board of Directors matapos siyang halal bilang ikakalawang Pangulo. Nobody did give her that advice. Now, maybe, just maybe, her people probably knew. And the reason kung bakit, you breeze.

Plain and simple. They intentionally ignored the said law thinking that they are exception to the rule. Because for them, what are they in power for? Therefore, they should be untouchable. Ang sisisihing ko po dito ay ang mga nakapaligid kay Bipi Sara dahil ipinahamak nila siya. Hindi niya siya. Inalayo sa kapahamakan, like what's happening now, ipinahamak nila ang ating butihing ikalawang Pangulo. Maraming salamat po.

The 2023, the, the, the, the, the, the, the referral to the 2023 filing, correct?

Yes, Your Honor. And, well, we were not supposed to disclose it at this point.

Then allow me,

allow me. Attorney Ann, to clarify, yung binabasa po niyong taong 2023, filing po yan, tama?

Atachment po siya sa filing ng kanyang return.

Kung attachment yan sa filing ng 2023, ibig sabihin patungkol yan sa kinita ng taong 2022.

2023 filing ka mo eh.

For the year 2023 na na-file ng 2024.

Pertains taxable 2023 po.

So 2023 taxable year.

Yes po.

Finial ng 2024.

Tama po.

So the document you're referring to was filed in 2024.

Tama?

Specifically po, April 11, 2024 po.

Finile?

Yes po.

E ano po yung binabanggit ni Atty. Christine kanina na 2022?

That's another year po. That's for taxable year 2022.

Na finile nung 2023?

Tama po.

So may isa pang finile ng 2024 tungkol sa compensation income ng 2023?

Tama po.

Correct?

Tama po.

Now, I don't know why you're standing up, Attorney Mike. Yes.

If I may, Your Honor, with all due respect. And I will be as appropriate as I can be, Your Honor. I will just say that we will address this issue. Kasi alam naman natin pag mag-headline yan eh. So, we will just assure this court that we will address this issue. and faces head on and give you a perfectly reasonable explanation during our presentation of our evidence.

I thought Attorney

Kristine already addressed it ably earlier. Sans this clarification.

Unless of course the court would like to hear from

me.

Not

at

this time. We will get

to your time.

What you're saying is that you have a plausible explanation for this, only that this witness will not be the one to be able to explain it.

Exactly, Your Honor. We will be presenting a witness for this particular issue. The relevant witness is supported by records and documents.

Okay. Let that be placed on the record. Again,

thank you, Your Honor, for being patient.

Thank you, Atty. Mike. Sen. Judge Villanueva is recognized, you have two minutes sir.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. Before I start, Mr. President, Mr. Presiding Officer, is it Cale or Callie?

Use either because we don't...

Yeah, because I'm being bombarded by corrections. It's not Cale though, but it's Cale. Because Callie is supposed to be double L. Anyway, let me ask that question, Madam Witness.

Dito po sa Annex X, H, I'm sorry, Annex H ng Cale88. 150 million ang sales noong 2024 pero 6.13 million ang reported loss. Pwede ko bang malaman sa inyong records ano yung expenses o dahilan ng pagkalugi? At sino naman po yung nagbigay ng pondong nagpapatuloy sa operasyon? Because based on the 2023 AFS, 125,000 ang paid up capital pero 23 million ang sales.

Your Honor, if I may be given a copy po ng audited financial statements?

Mr. Presiding Officer, can we ask the, okay, thank you.

Your Honor, saang particular year po?

Diyan sa Annex H ng 2024.

2024.

Kita dyan yung 6.13 million na losses, pero 150 million yung sales.

Based po dito, may sales po sila na 150,595,605 na exempt at may sales din po na under sa regular, subject to regular income tax na 169,564 pesos or a total of 150,765,259 po. And then meron po silang

But in those

years,

may question ka niya, in those years, losses, hindi po ba?

Tama po.

6.13 million.

Nakita po ba? Uulitin ko lang ko kasi nag-ani yung time ko. It's the same question from my first question. Please forgive me. Hindi ako nasagot doon sa tanong ko na... Sino, ano yung dahilan ng paggalugay kung nakikita po dyan at sino yung nagbibigay ng pondo para magpatuloy po yung operation?

Based po dito, marami po silang expenses. Umabot po ng 11,428,809 pesos po yung kanilang expenses. And based dito po sa audited financial statements,

Yung kanilang operating expenses is salaries, light and water expenses, automobile, freight out, consultant expense.

Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. Yung isang tanong ko po kasi kung losses, inuulit ko lang ulit. Inuulit ko lang ulit yung tanong ko. Yung losses po, napapakita po ba kung sino yung nagpapaluwal?

Ah, yung nagpapaluwal.

Kasi losses po eh, di ba?

Nakalagay po ba dyan? Sine yung nagpo-pondo para magpatuloy yung operasyon?

Meron

po sa notes.

Let me just

look at

the

notes.

...

Again sir, your honor, I remember this but I cannot, I don't have the other document. I can't see the specific but nakalagay po dun na if I remember it. Sorry, based sa recollection ko po, the company po, yung sa cash nila is medyo parang may qualified opinion and then the management will provide for the expenses po ng company considering na losses po sila.

Dito po ako tutuloy no, 2023 AFS ng Cale88, 23 million po yung gross sales. May 3.33 million in direct labor at bukod po po ito sa 205,000 in salary and wages. Pwede po bang malaman ilan ang workers or contractors behind these costs?

Wala po, Your Honor, nakalagay dito kung ilan po.

Walang payroll,

work records, proof of payment?

Total lang po ng lahat nung binayaran nila na salaries po. Pero yung breakdown po kung ilan, wala pong nakalagay, Your Honor.

doon sa alpha list

This

is alarming, your honor. You're looking at a company with 150 million sales, 6.13 million ang losses, dalawa yung empleyado?

I believe the good senator is referring to the general information sheets where it's required to state how many employees.

That's my question and I'm sure it's in the alpha list.

The chairperson of the Senate Committee on Labor, so I know this.

Kasi gusto kong malaman, bakit ganon? Dalawa lang yung employees na submitted. Around 150 million ang reported sales and based on previous witnesses, nabanggit pa yung foreign transactions, Senator Riza made mention about this. Kung kaunti lang yung employee, paano po yun? Paano nahahandle yung ganitong kalaking operations?

We will provide the document. The clerk of court is directed to call it from the submitted exhibits. If you know the answer to the question, attorney, and kindly answer it, is that possible?

Is

it possible?

Again, di ko po masasabi kasi wala po ako dun sa company na yun. But if ganito po, at manufacturer po siya ng...

You read it

kanina, ma'am. Manufacturer, banana chips,

Then parang... Impossible po unless nakamachine sila ng dalawang employee lang.

I'll take that word impossible. But can the BIR reconcile this cost with the employee? Again, Alphalise or the GIS, Forms 2316 and applicable withholding records?

We will submit, Your Honor. We will submit.

Tignan na lang po natin. Sige, punta po ako doon sa 2024 AFS at ITR. Magkano po yung direct labor, salaries, and wages na reported?

For 2024 po, salaries and wages, meron po silang 1,227,042 pesos po based sa audited financial statements.

I'm sorry, again?

Based po sa audited financial statements, meron po silang salaries and wages na 1,227,042 pesos po.

And sa foreign transactions, tugma po ba yung sales invoice, shipping records, and the logistic costs sa goods actually supplied?

Ah, yun nabanggit ko po kanina pertains to salaries and wages po.

Opo, opo. I know that but I'm talking now about the foreign transactions. Tugma po ba yung sales invoices, shipping records, at logistics costs sa goods actually supplied? Baka ho kasi gusto kong malaman meron po bang missing records na kailangan po nilang i-produce para masuportahan po ito?

Ang meron lang po kasi ako, Your Honor, apologies, is the audited financial statement and the copy of the annual income tax return. But the invoices po and other supporting documents wala po. But may audit na po ang company na ito and the revenue officers will have to check the supporting documents po na. sa lahat po ng line item ng expenses po nila, Your Honor.

Salamat po. And just in closing, again, I'm really interested and was surprised to find out that there are only two employees. Kasi in 2023, wala. Or 2024, yung wala. 2025, nagkaroon ng dalawa. If I'm not mistaken, no? Nagkaroon ng dalawang employees. So, we wanted to test whether or not The reported sales and foreign dealings are supported by an identifiable workforce, suppliers, and actual production or training activity. Kasi yung small workforce, kayo na ho yung sa bibig nyo nang galing. Parang impossible.

To be consistent with the outsourcing or automation. And again, the question seeks the documented explanation and does not presume, I'm not saying, I'm presuming this is a fictitious operation. It's just alarming. Thank you, Madam Witness. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Senator-Judge Pangilinan is recognized

Thank you, Mr.

Presiding Officer. Before I proceed with my questions, can we just administrative... matters to save on time so that it isn't charged to my time. Could the witness prepare the following documents? The audited financial statements of GenCorp. 2022, 2023, and 2024. This is attached to the, if I understand it correctly, the income tax, corporate income tax. And then the other one is the annual income tax returns of spouses Manases and Sara Duterte. This is for 2022.

2023, 2024, and 2025.

When you're ready with it, ma'am, I can start.

What

document do you have with you now available?

Wala po, Your Honor.

Wala pa?

It's

not part of the table or summary you have?

Dito po sa table summaries includes only the totals,

some

portions of the annual income tax returns.

Assisting Councils, kindly help out Atty. N.

GenCorp

2023 and 2024 and the annual income tax returns 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 of spouses Sara and... You have it?

The GenCorp, yes, Pa.

And the... The

spouses, po.

You

have it?

Yes, sir.

At your

honor.

yes okay thank you um you submitted records BIR records uh for gen spouses muna uh sabi niyo sa kanilang annual income tax uh can you confirm uh cash on hand and in bank was 2022 was 21 million 2020

...

As of December 31, 2022 po, meron po silang cash na P21,234,980 po.

And

then in 2023, do you confirm? It was P28,971,725 cash on hand in their annual income tax return.

As of December 31, 2023, P28,971,725 po.

And then in 2024, Again, sa kanilang income tax returns mag-asawa, 15 million cash on hand and in bank. 15,525,209.

15,525,209 pesos for 2024.

And finally, sa 2025 annual income tax return cash on hand and in bank, they reported, the spouses, 13,804,540.

Tama po.

Okay. Bakit? Can you explain? Since you answered questions on SALN, would you in your SALN identify cash on hand?

In my SALN po?

Yes. Your SALN?

Yes po.

Okay. So you put cash on hand?

Yes po. Yun po yung turo sa amin sa BIR.

And they put in their annual income tax return cash on hand? Sila? Yung spouses? Or in bank?

Sa audited financial

statements

po.

Yes po.

That's a heading.

Separate line item.

So,

dito sa annual income tax returns, meron silang cash on hand. Pero sa kanilang SALN, nung yung testigo, walang nakalagay undeclared ang cash on hand. Ang nilagay nila, liquid assets. Other various assets. At even yung nilagay nila doon, mas maliit kesa sa cash on hand. Would that be a concern for the BIR? I mean, on its face.

Sa BIR po kasi...

Kasi

ang SALN, yan ang ginagamit na basihan para sa ano ang assets and net worth mo, diba? Yung income tax returns, dyan nakalagay din kung ano yung income mo at yung financial statement mo, diba? Yung audit...

AFS, audited financial statements. So should that be a concern for BIR na iba ang naka-report cash on hand dito pero dito walang naka-declare ang cash on hand? Or kung meron mang naka-various amounts, maliit kumpara dun sa annual financial statements?

Para po sa BIR, ang aming directive is to Check and make sure that all taxpayers reports their income and lahat po ng taxes on that are paid. Kung may mga discrepancies on cash and hindi po ito ma-reconcile, then it can be presumed na income unless supportahan or substantiate ng taxpayer. So kung ganun po, baka ma-issuean po ng deficiency taxes.

Okay, so maliwanag may concern. Now, just one quick question. Sabi niyo kanina, salaries and wages ng Cale88, 1,200,000?

Base po kanina, yes.

Is that for a year?

For one year po.

So that's 97,000 pesos a month for 13 months kung may 13 month pay. Tama ba?

If you divided by 13, Your Honor, wala po akong calculator.

Wala

pang bonus, wala pang ano. If 97,000 pesos a month and you are in manufacturing and you bring in 1.2 billion pesos worth of sales, 315 million from China, ang salaries at wages mo 97,000 a month, anong klaseng manufacturing ang ka? You're not competent to answer that, no? But does that raise a question for the declaration and the document that was submitted to you?

Yes po, and it will be checked sa audit po.

No further questions, Mr. President.

Thank you very much, Senator Judge Pangilinan. The Senate President is recognized.

Thank

you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Atty. Anne.

Good afternoon,

Your Honor.

Sundan ko lang yung mga tanong ng ibang kasamahan natin. Babalik ako doon sa Cale88 at doon sa e-car.

Nabanggit kanina, nagkaroon na ng extensive discussion doon sa e-car. Pero basically, kung hindi nagbayad ng e-car sa pag-transfer ng taxes, Hindi valid kung ano man yung sale na nangyari from the perspective of the BIR?

Hindi naman po sa hindi valid kasi the law on contracts will apply pero may deficiency taxes po na kailangan bayaran on that kung may transfer man po talagang nangyari.

Pwede bang sabihin hindi perfected yung transfer dahil hindi nagbayad ng taxes?

Again, Your Honor, I think that the law on contracts will apply. Yung object costs and the...

From the eyes of the BIR. From the eyes of the BIR.

From the eyes of the BIR.

Walang transfer na nangyari.

Hindi po siya, hindi ko po masasabi, Your Honor. Because, again, yung validity ng transfer, yung law on contracts, I think, will apply. But the taxes on sa transaction na yun, yun po yung concern ng... BIR, your honor.

Alright. Pagdating naman sa ownership, in the eyes of the BIR, nasa dating owner pa ba itong kumpanya na ito?

Tinitignan ko may tatlong owner itong kumpanya dahil hindi sila nagbayad ng transfer taxes. Ibig ba sa in the eyes of the BIR, nasa dati pang may-ari itong kumpanyang ito?

Ang sabi po dun, pagka hindi nakapagbayad ng taxes, dapat hindi ito i-register, yung hindi i-register yung transfer sa stock transfer books.So kung ganun po, then baka po hindi po...

Correct.

Nasa lumang pangalan pa rin.

Yes po.

Tama? Kasi kung hindi ma-transfer sa stock transfer books, nasa lumang pangalan pa rin.

Tama po.

So pag tinignan ni records, nasa lumang owners pa rin.

Tama po.

Pupunta naman ako doon sa isang topic na nabuksan na ni Santa Risa, yung remittances. Kasi nakita ko rin na ang dineclared na sales is 208 and then ang remittance is about 700 million. Cale88, ang declared sales niya is 208 pero ang remittance na nakita namin sa AMLC, about 700 million.

Ano ang posibleng, in your opinion, itong 700, anong posibleng account ito?

Paano nagkaroon ng remittance sa 700 pero ang sales niya ay 200? Ano yung mga possibilities?

Sa mga possibilities po,

Alam

natin may pumasok na 700, alam natin yung sales. Ano yung mga possibilities bakit wala siya dito sa declaration sa BIR?

Baka po hindi po siya sales, transaction. So baka ito ay loan or any kinds of donation. Hindi din po natin masabi. Basta...

Pag wala pa rin sa balance sheet, wala sa asset, wala siya sa loans, wala siya sa sales, pero may pumasok ng 700.

Sa

name po ng company?

Sa name ng company. Anong possibilities nito?

From your

expert... From your experience and expert opinion sa mga ganitong mga nangyayari.

Apologies, Your Honor, hindi ko pumasabi but this should have been declared in the audited financial statements. Dahil sa audited financial statement, nandito yung cash flow statement wherein dapat lahat ng galaw ng cash ng isang company ay nakalagay.

Any inflow na na-receive ng company should have been declared in the audited financial statement. As to those na outside or hindi na-declare sa audited financial statement, marami pong possibilities but hindi ko rin pong masasabi, Your Honor.

Kung ganito yung senaryo, candidate ba itong Cale88 for a letter of authority para tignan ng bureau?

In fact, Your Honor, meron na pong letter of authority.

So

meron nga

siyang letter of authority. So inimbestigahan na itong company na ito.

Yes, Your Honor.

And if ever found na hindi din-declare in sales, ano yung mga penalties?

Yung under declaration po ng sales, magkakaroon po tayo, magkocompute po tayo dito ng deficiency taxes po. Meron po kasing civil and merong criminal. cases. So sa civil, dito po papasok yung mga deficiency taxes na dapat pong bayaran. At kapag napatunayan na may tax evasion man, then dito po pasok po yung sa criminal case.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr. Senator.

Senator Judge Lacson is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Good afternoon, Atty. Ann.

Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Don't focus sa minimum corporate income tax. Ito po kasi gusto ko ibangga sa GENCORP dahil mamaya bigyan ko inang figures. Gusto ko ma-reconcile. Ang pag-compute ng MCIT, ito yung 2% of gross income tapos i-deduct yung cost of goods sold from the total sales, hindi ba?

Total sales minus cost of goods sold,

gross

income po.

Tapos 2%.

2

% po yun.

Yun

yung MCIT.

Yun

po yung MCIT or the minimum corporate income

tax. I'm just wondering kung ito yung inavail ng GenCorp. Kasi sa 2025, tinignan ko yung taxpayers profile ng GenCorp. Ang authorized capital stock nila, 5 million pesos. Andyan po sa inyong document.

Pero yung kanilang total sales sa 2025, sa kanilang tax returns, 520,670,643. Ang background lang po, yung GenCorp, Ito po wala po sa AOI ang pangalan ni VP Sara. Pero naka-declare naman sa kanya SALN. Kasi nakalagay doon, formerly Times Square B at saka yung Great Jolly Times. Nakalagay formerly. Pero GenCorp. So, naging issue na rin po. Never mind.

Ang kanilang total gross sales sa 2025, yun nga, 520,670,643. Yung taxable net income nila, 5,342,953. Yung tax due, 2,285,418. Pakireconcile lang yung mga numbers, mga figures na ito. Yung kanilang tax credit, 1.5 million. Ang tax paid,

777,093. Tapos yung of course net income after tax. Ito yung 3,057,535.

Yun bang may 5 million na authorized capital stock tapos merong sales na 520 million. Hindi po ba unusual yun?

Your Honor, yung authorized capital stock po pertains to the number of shares na pwedeng i-issue ng isang corporation. Maximum. That's the maximum, Your Honor. And then ngayon, yung sa sales naman po, ito po yung benta ng isang taxpayer sa isang particular year. So kung mabenta po talaga siya at maganda ang kanyang business, that's

a possibility.

Dahil

nasa BIR kayo, yung taxation, kasi... Ay, sorry. Okay. So, gusto ko lang malaman kung nakapit sila ng 2% kasi wala sa datos namin yung cost of goods sold. Baka meron kayo. Ay,

Ah yung breakdown,

Your Honor?

Yes.

Kung tatama yung 2% doon sa computation ng MCIT.

2

% of total gross income from the total sales minus or i-deduct yung cost of goods sold. Kung meron kayong data, gusto ko lang i-countercheck kung tatama sa 2% for purposes of tax payment.

2025.

Your

Honor, can I use my own, the file copy, BIR file copy?

Yes, thank you.

You may, Eternion.

Thank you, Pa.

Habang naghanap kayo, maski mag-declare ng loss, maski losing yung kumpanya, Magbabayad pa rin ng 2%, di po ba?

Yes po.

Maski lost.

Whichever is higher po kasi.

Yes, okay.

Your Honor, sorry po, 2% ng?

Hindi, kasi ang binayaran niya, 777,000.

Opo.

Pero

ang total sales, 520 million. So hindi ko po ma-reconcile. So sa nilaki-laki na ng kanilang sales, 520 million, ang nabayaran lamang is 777,000. So, gusto ko makita yung competition ng 2% kung i-deduct yung cost of goods sold from the total sales.

But let the witness answer.

Sorry, Your Honor. Yung reason po kasi sobrang labo po ng copy. Hindi ko po mabasa. Pero

sobrang labo rin po ng kwenta eh. Kaya ako nagtatanong eh.

2025.

This

is 2024.

Between 777,000 and 520,000,000 mukhang medyo ano, mahirap i-reconciled.

Based po dito kasi the cost of sales is around 406 million.

Sobrang labo po talaga nung document.

Sa akin po

ang

total sales ng 520 million. And

the cost of sales space around 400 million plus. So kaya po yung kanilang gross income is around 114.

Net income.

And then may itemized deduction po sila na 108. Million.

Gusto ko lang po malaman kung tumama doon sa 2% na MCIT.

Yung MCIT po nila is kapag pa 2% is 2

.28.

Dapat. Dapat po ang 2%. So malayo po sa 777,000.

But the MCIT po will

We'll

register you for round 2, Sen. Judge Lacson.

Sen. Judge Hontiveros.

For round two, you may proceed when you're ready ma'am.

Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer.

Thereafter, Senator Judge Pangilinan.

Attorney Anne, dalawang huling tanong na lamang po. Una, kanina sinabi niyo na kung may mga lihitimong transaksyon sa likod ng mga international remittances na yun, kailangan i-report pa rin ang sales at kailangan pagbayaran ng tax yung mga sales na ganun. So, posible po ba na kasama itong mga malalaking international remittances na ito sa titignan ng bureau dun sa inyong RATE or Run After Tax Evaders program?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Posible po?

Yes po.

Okay. And then, nabanggit niyo rin po, kanikanina pa. Or kahapon ba na walang e-car dun sa transfer of shares ni Atty. Manases Carpio sa Cale88 papuntang Pikimong, Pikimong. Ibig po bang sabihin na sa mata ng BIR ay ang may-ari pa rin ng Cale88 ay si Atty. Carpio?

Pwede po. Yes.

Pwede.

Okay. Kasi base rin po sa dating na ipresentang 2025 SALN ni VP Duterte, sila rin po mismo ang nagdeklara ng Cale88 bilang business interest pa rin po sa taong iyon. Salamat pong muli, Atty. Ann. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Thank you. Again, yung GENCORP.

GENCORP audited financial statements from 2023 and 2024.

Are you ready, ma'am?

Yes, po.

Attorney Anne.

Yes,

po, Your Honor.

Okay.

First, yung... Audited financial statement, pag sinabing cash December 31, ano ibig sabihin nun? Yun yung cash sa on-hand and sa bank po?

Tama po.

So the company is required to declare cash in bank in its audited financial statement.

Tama po.

At pag sinabi nila ganun ang halaga at audited yan, ibig sabihin totoo yan.

Verify ng independent certified public account.

That it is true and correct. Diba?

Tama.

Okay. So ano ang AFS ng GENCO nung 2023? Gaya ng nabanggit kanina, GENCO was in the SALN of the Vice President. 2023.

Cash.

As of December 31, 2023, may nakadeclare po sa audited financial statements na 924,695 pesos po.

Okay. At ano naman? 924,960. Okay. Doon sa banko, can we flash it?

Doon sa bank documents na ating nalikom, yung banko ng GENCO would be Metro Bank and Security Bank. So for 2023,

ang kanyang two banks, nine accounts, 46,191,876. So kung binanggit niya ay 924,000 lang sa audited financial statement which they submitted to you, Jenco, they were not being truthful. If the bank records show, that the ending balance in 2023 is 46 million. Tama po?

Mukhang, it appears to be so, Your Honor.

Okay. Ang laki nung pagkakaiba. 45 million plus difference ang sinasabi ng bangko at sinasabi nila sa financial statement na na-audited. In 2024, ano ang sinabi ng GENCO?

As of December 31, 2024, may cash po na 683,838.

Okay.

Pero dito sa bank records ng dalawang banko ng Security Bank and Metro Bank na sinumiti sa atin, ang total ng dalawang banko na may nine accounts cash in bank is 19,105,307. So again, 683,000 ang dineklara sa audited financial statement. Pero yung bank records mismo ang nagsasabing 19 million ang cash on hand. So again, there, that should be, well, you know, kung ganyang kalaki ang gap sa anumang kumpanya na alaman ninyo sa BIR, that should be a cause for concern, hindi ba?

Yes po, Your Honor.

Okay. And finally, nabanggit yung PICIMON and yung Cale88 at nagka-debate at diskusyon tungkol sa stock and transfer, no? Ang tanong dun is, since Pikimon, based on the general information sheet ng Pikimon, I'll just wrap up, 95% of Cale88 is owned by Pikimon. Okay? Now, at yung anong nakasalagay dun sa GIS?

na capital stock, authorized, yes. Napakaliit, no? Because you're a accountant and you're also a, just to finalize that, mukhang maliit yung capital, authorized capital stock no, Pikimon, but it was able to purchase 95% of Cali, Cali88. So that's another cause of, for concern that perhaps the, well. We will raise the matter in camera as to whether or not we should bring in the GIS and other related documents of Pikimong-Pikimong Philippine Corporation. There

you

go. The paid up capital of Pikimong is six, for the record, as of year 2024, 59,836 ang total assets. Ang paid up capital is 62,500.

So that begs the question, how could they purchase 95% of Cale88 given their GIS information? Well, again, I leave that to the BIR. as a matter of concern, and of course to our senator judges. Thank you, Attorney Anne.

Thank you din po. Well noted po.

Senator Judge Villanueva.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. I have here with me, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President, a copy of the GIS of Cale88 Foods Corporation, 2023-2024. Wala pong empleyado. Wala akong nakalagay. Dito po sa 2025, nakalagay po dalawa. So just for your information na, Mr. President, and yung tinatanong po natin kanina, ito po yun, ito yung basihan. Pwede ho bang i-follow up ko, ma'am, yung tinatanong ko kanina kung sakaling may nagpopondo po nito, sino po yung nagbibigay kung meron na po kayong na... Kuhang document that states sino yung sumasagot dahil losing po ito eh. Supposed to be, no? Dahil yung ni-report po ay napakalaki nung sales. Kunyari 2024, 150 million pero 6 million yung reported loss in 2024. Kung meron lang po, ma'am, kanina po sabi nyo in your recollection meron pero you don't have anything.

Para po dito sa kanila, based sa audited financial statement po, sa note 14, these financial statements are being prepared on an ongoing concern basis because the management have undertaken to provide continuing financial support so that the company is able to pay its debt as and when they fall due.

So yun po yung narecall ko pa nila. The management or the owners,

yes po.

The owners. Yeah. Baka

lang po

makalimutan ko ma'am, yung alpha list po ninyo, baka pwedeng makita namin para mabangga po dito sa GIS. Yes,

Your

Honor.

We will submit to this honorable court.

Last na lang po, dito po sa 2025, tinitignan ko po itong inyong isinubay.

There's this 11.20 million net taxable business income sa pangalan po ni Atty. Carpio sa Annex A. May papakita po ba ng BIR yung breakdown nito, ma'am, mula po dun sa 888 Bistro, Law Practice at iba pang pinagkukunan upang matyak lang po na Wala po tayong kitang naiwan at wala din po tayong salapi na nabilang ng dalawang beses.

Sa 2025 po, your honor?

Opo, opo.

Yan dyan po yung 11.20 million na net taxable business income.

Again, just to repeat the question, kung may nakikita po kayo dyan na breakdown mula dun sa taxable business income from 888 Bistro, law practice?

Based po dito sa audited financial statement na naka-attach po sa annual income tax return for 2025, meron po dito na breakdown from one from law firm and one from restaurant po.

Okay po. Then dun sa Annex G, tignan po natin. Yung Annex G, meron pong 5.24 million na net income dun po sa binabanggit nyo yung sa Carpio Lawyers.

Ang tanong ko lang po kung General Professional Partnership ito, magkano po yung distributive share ni Atty. Carpio at saan ito makikita sa kanyang personal return? Kasi hindi naman po lahat yung sa buong law firm sa kanya po yun, hindi po ba?

Based po sa AFS po ng Carpio Lawyers,

based

po sa 2025 wala pong distribution kasi nakalagay po dito partners allocation of net income but wala pong nakalagay na distribution

but am I correct to

assume na dapat yan po yung distributive share niya not necessarily the entire kasi merong general professional I mean general professional partnership eh hindi po ba?

Tama po, may general professional partnership at may share po siya doon.

Pag

nag-distribute po yung general professional partnership, then yung distributed share po na yun should be reflected in the annual.

Yun ang personal return niya. So, papaano po isinama sa personal return ni Atty. Carpio ang receipts at expenses ng 888 Bistro?

888 Bistro po is registered as a restaurant po.

Ba't may reconciliation po ba na nag-uugnay dun sa business books with holding records at individual return, ma'am?

Si Carpio Lawyers po kasi sa General Professional Partnership. Si Atty. Manases R. Carpio po is a separate registered taxpayer and meron po siyang dalawang source of income which is yung law firm and the restaurant. And may

reconciliation po na naguugnay dun po sa business books nila.

Wala pong nakalagay po dito na reference. Basta lang po may nakalagay na nakadeclare po na law firm and restaurant. As to the source, wala pong nakalagay.

Kaya po tinatanong yun kasi gusto natin sundan yung money trail, yung salapay hanggang dun sa actual na taxpayer kasi mahalaga po itong makita. Yung posibleng omitted income at maikonekta ng may ebidensya ang corporate transactions dun po sa respondent. Maraming salamat po ma'am at thank you. Thank you po. Senator

Judge Lacson, to

avail of

second round, you may proceed, sir.

Thank you, Mr. President. Second case study, yung Cale88. Ito rin eh, yung authorized capital, stock, 2 million. Pero yung kanilang aggregate total sales, 208 million from 2022 hanggang 2025. Pero negative taxable net income, nag-negative 8 million sila in 4 years. So again, notably, sa 2024 total sales, nasa 150.7 million and yet, nag-declare po sila ng negative 6.128 million in taxable net income. Ang tanong ko po, ano ba yung implication ng negative taxable net income? Ano mga possible reasons dito?

Pag may negative taxable income, ibig sabihin mas mataas po yung expenses na kinlain.

Alam ko po, pero kinocompare ko sa kanilang total sales at saka yun, parang hindi rin magtugma. Ano po yung implication as far as BIR?

Makukonsider nyo bang red flag pag gaganito?

Pwede rin po, during audit, iti-check po kung bakit po siya losses kung talaga bang baka naman po kasi may over-declaration expenses or under-declaration ng sales.

Iti-check pa po yun, Your Honor, if may ganun po.

Tatapusin ko lang po kasi may kinukwento sa akin si Senator Lapid. Kasi kahapon daw po, yung prosecution, pag tuwing magbabanggit ng SALN, nag-o-object yung defense. Kanina naman, pag nagbabagit ng SALN yung defense, nag-object naman yung prosecution. Ganyan ba raw kagugulo talaga mga abogado?

Kasi galing daw po siyang UK, doon po hindi required yung mga lawyers. Pwede magrepresentasarili nila yung mga, yung common na tao. So doon na lang po siya titira sa London. Marami salamat po.

No other senator judges registered to make interjections. Sabi ko sa inyo, Atty. Ann, konti na lang, nakaraos din.

Maraming salamat, Atty. Ann, sa inyo po ang kooperasyon, pagsagot sa mga katanungan at pagtulong sa impeachment court na ito. Asahan po namin yung mga submission na hiningin ng Sen. Judges, may ipadala na lamang po sa pamamagitan ng Clerk of Court para ipadala po namin sa Sen. Judges at saka sa magkabilang partido para po sa kanilang kaalaman, base sa kahilingan ng Sen. Judge.

Okay po, Your Honor. Thank you po.

Can

I excuse the witness, Atty. Sheila?

Yes, Your Honor.

You are excused, Atty. Anne. Salamat po.

Yes, what is the pleasure of Atty. Sheila?

Yes, good afternoon, Your Honor. Good afternoon, Your Honors. Just some preliminary matters. If the court will allow me, may I just ask that before the next intended witness be situated in this courtroom,

May I be allowed to first tackle some preliminary matters in relation to this next witness, Your Honor, so that he won't be able to hear my manifestations, which could possibly cross into some potential cross-examination questions, Your Honor. Thank you.

Before I allow you to continue, Attorney Sheila, who will be the handling lawyer for the...

Who will be the handling lawyer for this witness? Honorable Ridon? I see you raising your hand and the Honorable Diokno as well.

It is Congressman Diokno who will present. But before anything, Atty. Matip will make a manifestation.

This is regarding what, Atty. Aaron?

Regarding the marking of exhibits for the BIR, Your Honor. We request that the... Tax summaries attached to the October 6th letter 2026, addressed to Honorable Jervil Luistro, be marked as exhibit P-Roman numeral 2-3-22-BIR and series. So this includes all the annexes, annexed summaries. And then for the certification regarding the e-car, this will be The letter dated October 6 of 2026 addressed to the Honorable Francis Escudero, which contains annexes. We request that this be marked as Exhibit P-R2-3-23-BIRN series, Your Honor, to include the attachments. Thank you.

Clerk of Court is so directed to mark the aforementioned exhibits at the appropriate time. It's ordered.

Your Honor.

Let's wait until... Yes,

before Atty. Sheila, Congressman Diokno, we are yielding to him.

I was about to recognize him.

But

this

is in relation

also, Your Honor, to the request for marking as...

This is about the...

Yes, Your Honor.

Yes, please, Atty. Sheila.

On the requested

marking.

We also will just put on record the... We will mark the documents requested as registered in the TSN as D-II-190-LOA and D-II-191, Your Honor. The proper information on these documents will just be manifested during the marking, Your Honor. Yes,

at the appropriate time. So ordered.

Honorable Diokno, are you settled down?

Yes, Your Honor. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. To listen to the manifestation prior to the calling of the witness by Attorney Sheila. Attorney Sheila, you may proceed with the manifestation, ma'am.

Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon again, Your Honors. Good afternoon to the Honorable Congressman Diokno. The witness is... May I inquire if the witness is around, Your Honor? In the

holding room, I believe.

Thank

you, Your Honor. We understand that after the BIR witness...

He

was

earlier

at the hall but the chair instructed him to be brought back to the holding room.

We understand that, Your Honor. Thank you. We understand that the next intended witness would be a supposed financial forensic analyst by the name of Mr. Attorney Nathaniel Alexander B. Cabrera, CPA, Your Honor. And this was contained in the manifestation that we just received over the weekend, specifically on Saturday, dated October 3, 2026, at around past 8pm, Your Honor. And along with the manifestation, we also received what appears to be a supposed forensic report Vice President Sarah Duterte and Spouses Financial, Corporate Property and Related Records. This was marked as Annex A of the manifestation dated October 3, 2026. However, Your Honor, it would seem that from the introduction in Annex A, it says here, and I will quote, this is the second paragraph on page 1 of Annex A of that manifestation. The work performed involved analyzing documents that were made available to the undersigned pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. And I will stop there. Now, I recall yesterday in the exchange between the prosecution and the defense that this court explicitly said that it has not issued any subpoena to this particular witness and neither has it issued any subpoena duces tecum or any authority for this witness to be handed over certain documents or specific documents, especially documents containing confidential data of the respondent and the entities mentioned in this report as well as the respondent's spouse. And so I am at a loss why this report now contains a statement that the work that he purportedly performed involved on his part analyzing some documents that were made available to him pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. May I inquire from the Honorable Court if this statement is factually true.

Specifically, that part where this witness appears to claim that there were documents made available to him pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court, which includes, now I will now read the rest of this paragraph, such as the VP SALN for the years 2022. 2025 reports from AMLC, the income tax returns filed by the VP and her spouse, the bank statements and bank records, investments they made, the financial statements of corporations they have an interest, and documents filed by the corporations with the SEC. And there's a certain collatilia.

at the last sentence. Accordingly, this report did not use documents in the possession of the respondent and her spouse which naturally would be an obvious situation because definitely the respondent did not, does not, and will never consent to any information sharing of any of her confidential data with this stranger.

So, now, since this court, as of yesterday, has stated for the record that it has not yet issued any subpoena to this witness, then what authority does this witness have to hold or to be handed over confidential data that even this court had ordered several times to be redacted, Your Honor?

Honorable Diokno, can you comment?

Thank you, Your Honor. In the first place, I would like to correct the good defense counsel. It's not a supposed forensic report. It is a forensic report. The person is not a stranger. His name is attorney Alexander B. Cabrera. A subpoena, Your Honor, for the witness to testify is simply an order for the witness to appear before this honorable court. That's why I don't know where the argument is coming from because As we will show when we present this witness, he has been properly engaged by the prosecution and given the authority to examine those documents. Now, the defense has repeatedly been saying that these matters are confidential. I would like to correct again the defense because these matters have been allowed by the honorable court. Matagal ko na pong sinasabi na hindi confidential ang katotohanan. At alam naman po natin na pinayagan ni presiding officer yung BIR records, pinayagan ni presiding officer ang anti-money laundering records, pinayagan ni presiding officer ang mga bank records, insurance company records. Ano po ang pinagsasabi nilang confidential? So I hope that we will be allowed to call the witness, put him on the stand, and they may, if you want, cross-examine him.

May I be allowed to respond, Your Honor? I think it's important for the defense to be given the opportunity to respond to this reply from the Honorable Congressman Diokno. Just for the record and first of all, the forensic report, the alleged or the supposed forensic report and the defense will continue to use that term in respect of this supposed document entitled forensic report. The prosecution cannot just claim that this is indeed a forensic report given that there is no doubt that this witness has yet to undergo any examination or that this witness or the documents that he intends to testify on and identify before this court have yet to be admitted by this honorable court. Now as to the

stranger your honor that was in relation of course that this witness is a stranger to the respondent your honor. I did in fact refer to attorney Cabrera by his name if the gentleman would remember at the start of my manifestation but again I find the rest of the reply and the response of the honorable congressman unresponsive to be frank your honor because my only query is that has there been or did the court issue, any subpoena to this witness? Second, Your Honor, upon whose authority did this witness able to take possession of, examine documents that are confidential by nature and protected by law?

Now,

as to the

tagline that ang katotohanan ay hindi confidential. I understand that that's the position that has been taken over and over and over and over again by the prosecution. However, this is a trial. We do not try here rhetoric. We try here facts, Your Honor.

verbal calisthenics between both councils and simply address the concern of Attorney Sheila. My reading of the second paragraph that Attorney Sheila quoted, if I may quote, the work performed involved analyzing documents that were made available to the undersigned pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. does not mean that we issued subpoenas for documents to be given to him. It was pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the court for the documents to be produced before the impeachment court and furnished the parties. So to answer, Atty. Sheila, the lead counsel for the respondent, no special subpoena was issued for documents to be produced and furnished, Atty. Cabrera. And as regards her other concerns,

Only Attorney Cabrera would be able to answer them through the direct how, if at all, and I expect actually, the Honorable Diokno to establish the chain of custody of the documents, if any, that Attorney Cabrera used from the documents subpoenaed by the court and furnished the parties under certain conditions. That would be the proper subject matter of direct and I don't think Attorney Honorable Diokno should respond in behalf of

Attorney Alexander Cabrera.

Thank you for that clarity, Your Honor. In fact, Your Honor, that was also one of the interpretations that we contemplated earlier as to this portion of the second paragraph of Annex A of that manifestation, Your Honor. However, we still ask this question, Your Honor, because now it is confirmed by this court that no subpoena was ever issued to this particular witness. So we will just put that on record that the defense and the respondent now take note of that confirmation that there was no such subpoena issued to this respondent. Second, Your Honor, we also ask, the reason why we ask is that we just want to have a formal confirmation from the prosecution that they were the ones who actually indeed provided this witness with all this confidential data so that it also is entered into the records, Your Honor.

Would you like to respond now or at the appropriate time during your direct, Honorable Diokno?

I will

respond now and also later if Your Honor is pleased.

You may do so.

I'm sure Attorney Sheila and the other members of both the prosecution and the defense are aware that when one side in a court case engages an expert, naturally, Your Honor, they must provide that expert with the information that is necessary for that expert to come up with findings. And it is no different in this case than it is in ordinary criminal or civil cases. We engaged an expert. We provided that expert with documents that we were able to gather through subpoenas that were issued by this honorable court. As to the matter of being allegedly confidential, I believe this has already been repeatedly ruled upon by the court that the BEA records, AMLA, etc. are available for inspection by the members of the court and by the parties. That's all, Your Honor.

Before attorney Sheila proceeds,

the third paragraph of the manifestation of the panel of prosecutors states that no subpoena is necessary as the prosecution undertakes to invite and secure attorney Cabrera's appearance at the appropriate hearing.

Yes,

Your Honor. That's precisely the reason why we also wanted to ask this honorable court for that.

clarification, Your Honor. Now, in response to the Honorable Diokno, yes, we are aware that one has to provide or that the party has to provide its witnesses with relevant documents, Your Honor. However, we're not just dealing here with ordinary documents. Again, I hope the prosecution, I'm sure the prosecution understands that since we have a recorded objection, a continuing objection, To the disclosure of all this data, then the prosecution must also expect that we will raise this at every opportune time to maintain that objection and to be consistent with that position, even as we also understand that their position is totally disparate from our position, Your Honor. But again, for the record, I will just read a portion of the memorandum from the Acting Executive Secretary. To the Commissioner of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, Charlito Martin R. Mendoza, Your Honor. Through Acting Secretary Frederick Digo of the Department of Finance, this is dated July 29, 2026 in response to the subpoena issued by this Court. Just for the record, so that The public will also understand where the respondent and the defense are coming from.

It says

here that pursuant to the subpoena duces tecum dated July 21, 2026, issued by the Senate Impeachment Court in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte, case number 004-2026 and section 71. of the national internal revenue code of 1997 as amended you are hereby authorized to allow the inspection of and furnish the senate impeachment court with one original or certified true copy accompanied by electronic copies of the following records uh quote that were enumerated in this memorandum now it's clear to us to the defense and the respondent that the authority given is only for

The inspection of and the submission of the enumerated documents in this memorandum to the Senate Impeachment Court and not to any third party, Your Honor. I know that we will not meet on this matter with the prosecution but just for the record, Your Honor. Thank you.

Whether or not you will pursue or persist with presenting a witness, the defense also intended in the pretrial order to present its own forensic expert. And the chair will be applying the same ruling to the forensic experts to be presented by the respondent given that lawyers in general are allowed to seek the assistance of either lawyers, investigators, or non-lawyers, furnished evidence that they have and if at all subject to that limited access, be furnished copies of whatever piece of evidence they legally obtain in accordance with the ruling of the court. Again, this ruling will apply also to the forensic experts that the respondent may present should they decide to do so at the time they present their evidence in chief. Can you proceed to call the witness, Atty. Sheila?

That is correct, Your Honor. I now turn over the examination.

Who will handle it?

It's going to be Atty. Kristine Ferrer, Your Honor. Thank you.

I was kinda expecting that actually because she's been gone for a while.

Yes, Your Honor. We will just arrange her apple box.

Kindly assist Atty. Christine with the apple box.

The Secretary, the OSHA is kindly directed to do so.

While that is being done, Your Honor.

Can we call the witness, Attorney Alexander Cabrera? Can you situate him to the witness stand?

The Clerk of Court is so directed.

Same appearance, Your Honor.

Kindly situate Attorney Alexander Cabrera to the witness stand.

The Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to Attorney Cabrera.

Sir, kindly raise your right hand, please. You, Alexander B. Cabrera, do swear. that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.

Kindly answer through the microphone, Attorney Cabrera.

Kindly answer in the affirmative through the microphone, Attorney Cabrera, with respect to the oath, for the record.

I do.

Thank you, sir.

How do we refer to you, Alex, or what would be your—how are you usually called?

Alex, sir.

Attorney Alex, naunawahan po ba niyo inyong pinanumpaan kaugnay sa pagbibigay niyo ng inyong testimonya ngayong araw na ito at malamang sa darating pang lunes muli. Naunawahan niyo po ba yan?

Naunawaan ko po, Mr. President. Salamat

po. Salamat din. Kindly make your offer, Attorney, the Honorable Shell.

Your Honor, Before the counsel will make his offer, we would like to ask this court to implement the same policy, Your Honor, with regard to the flashing of documents or displaying of documents, particularly on the tax returns, Your Honor, the SALN, the bank... documents, Your Honor, and the AMLC documents, Your Honor, that all of these documents, while being provided to the members of this honorable court, these documents should not be flashed on screen by...

The chair

already gave instructions that if relevant BIR documents will be flashed, I believe you will highlight certain entries only, Honorable Diokno, correct?

Yes, Your Honor, if we will show those

documents. To blur the rest and simply... Show in legible form the highlighted portion.

Yes, Your Honor.

In accordance with the ruling of the Chair in regard to that matter. However, insofar as tables, summaries, or other documents that Atty. Cabrera made himself, these may be flashed on the screen as these are not part of the submissions covered. by any of the confidentiality laws or rules prevailing.

Your Honor,

that

would also include bank statements as well as AMLC reports, Your Honor.

Actual AMLC reports, yes, but not the summaries and tallies based on them.

Is that clear, Honorable Diokno?

Your Honor, please, perhaps we can cross that bridge when we get there. Before I show any slides that may Be objected to, I will ask permission of the Honorable Court. And perhaps at that time, the proper objection can be made and we can discuss it then.

Yes, and subject to that guideline, as practiced before, Honorable Diokno, kindly ask the assistance of your fellow co-counsels or assistants to kindly prepare the hard copy of your planned showing. so that it can be with facility distributed to the senator, judges, and opposing party for their ready reference.

Yes, we will do that. Similar to

what was done by Attorney Erwin.

Thank you, Your Honor.

But these are still preliminaries. So, I'm

kind to make your offer, Honorable Diokno.

Thank you, Your Honors.

Ang aming testigo po ay certified public accountant or CPA at abogado. Nasanay-nasanay sa pag-conduct ng financial audits, reviews at investigations. Inaalok po namin ang kanyang testimonya bilang expert at para patunayan ang mga sumusunod. Una po, na-qualified siya to follow the money and reconcile the financial records. The witness possesses the education, professional qualifications, specialized training, experience and technical expertise necessary to examine financial records, trace transactions, reconcile income and assets, analyze financial relationships, and identify material discrepancies among financial documents. Sa madaling salita, your honors, expertise po niya ang sundan ang pera. Number two, he examined the respondent statements of assets, liabilities, and net worth or SALNs, income tax returns, and other tax records, bank records, anti-money laundering reports, corporate documents, audited financial statements, and other subpoenaed official or publicly available records. Three, he used recognized financial and accounting methods to test whether these records reconcile. The witness applies recognized methods of financial analysis, reconciliation, transaction tracing, and accounting analysis to compare the respondents' documented income and sources of funds against their assets, financial transactions, investments, and business interests. Fourth, based on the foregoing, the witness arrived at the following conclusions. One, Vice President Sara Duterte-SALN for the years 2022. 2023, 2024, and 2025 were untruthful with a substantial amount of assets belonging to the respondent and spouse found to be unreported. Second, Vice President Sara Duterte, during her vice presidency, continued to participate in various businesses. Third, her unexplained wealth, based only on the limited documents examined, excluding documents in the possession of Vice President Sara and spouse, amount to 818.87 million pesos. Fourth, the above-mentioned infringements which happened in 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 established a pattern of constitutional violations year on year. And fifth, apart from the Constitution, other laws were violated or may have been violated such as the National Internal Revenue Code, Republic Act 1379, Republic Act 6713, Republic Act 3019, Republic Act 12009, Securities and Regulations Code Rules, and Commission Audit Rules. We will establish, Your Honor, ng aming testigo ay mapagkakatiwalaan dahil siya ay may integridad. Hindi po siya yung tipong expert na pinulot lang kung saan saan. His credentials and trustworthiness are, in our view, impeccable. Ito po ang magiging ambag ng expert witness na ito. The other witnesses in this article presented the underlying records. SALN, corporate records from the SEC, records for firearms from the Philippine National Police, records of the Anti-Money Laundering Council, banks and insurance companies, and the Bureau of Internal Revenue. Atty. Cabrera will connect the dots and provide this court. with the big picture. That is all for the offer, Your Honor.

Comment, Attorney Kristine?

Subject to cross-examination.

You may proceed with your direct examination, Honorable Diokno. The offer as well as the comment, subject to cross or jury

noted.

First of all, before I proceed, if Your Honor please may be allowed, may the witness be allowed to bring with him and when necessary refer to the documents that he will be identifying before this honorable court. as well as his notes, as far as the witness stand is concerned, Your Honor.

Continuing authority is given to Attorney Cabrera, Attorney Alex, to look at his notes and as he very well knows, to make it known that he is referring to his notes without need of permission from the presiding officer. Continuing authority is also given to assisting counsels from both sides to approach the witness at any time. To either assist or assist him or view whatever documents he is looking at for reference, for the reference rather, of the handling lawyers, either on direct or on cross. You may proceed, Honorable Joaquin.

Just one more administrative matter before we begin, Your Honor. May I also ask that a member of his team, who is also a certified public accountant, if necessary, be allowed to assist him in looking for documents as needed. during the direct or cross-examination.

May we ask what his name is and where he or she is right now so that the court can identify her? The nickname,

sir, is Ace, Your Honor. His name is Mr.

Ace Vargas

So is Ace in the first gallery or he

may be seated in the first gallery similar to what we did with Attorney Anne of the BIR who assisted the witness. You were there on the side, Honorable Diokno, and saw it.

Thank you.

So you can situate Ace. There, perhaps. Yes, Attorney Kristine?

Your Honor, yes. We agree to that. We have no objection to that. Provided that this assistant, Your Honor, will just hand over the documents, will not talk to the witness, and will not also point or guide the witness as to what documents to identify, Your Honor.

Understood,

Your Honor.

Understood, but in any case, whatever actions the assistant would make, who is not testifying may be placed on the record by either of the parties or the court itself. Kindly situate Mr. Ace.

The documents are with him or in the long table behind you?

Those are the documents?

They are in the possession of the tech booth, Your Honor, please.

In the tech booth?

And also with the witness. He has a copy of the

So you may situate

Mr.

Ace perhaps in the first gallery. behind the witness.

May I

proceed, Your Honor?

Anything else?

Your Honor, by the way, Your Honor, may we ask if these documents came from the witness, Your Honor?

Which ones?

Yes, the ones behind him, Your Honor.

The ones with the ace.

At the proper time, at the proper time, Atty. Kristine, we will go, we will get there. Okay.

Okay, Your Honor.

Honorable Diokno, you may proceed with your direct examination.

Just one final manifestation, Your Honor. The documents that are there are the marked exhibits, Your Honor, that the witness may need to refer to.

Then let's respond to the query of Attorney Christine. The documents with Mr. Ace, are those documents also documents coming from Attorney Cabrera? Honorable Diokno?

Yes, Your Honor. Those are.

So they're also from him, but he did not bring everything with him on the witness stand.

It would be impossible for him to bring them all, Your Honor, because of the voluminous nature. However, he does have with him a copy of the USP which was also submitted to this honorable court.

Okay.

Duly noted, you may proceed. Finally, Honorable Diokno.

Yes, Your Honor. Magandang hapon po, Atty. Alexander Cabrera.

Magandang hapon din po, Counselor Chel.

For the record, please state your name, age, citizenship, and professions.

Ako po si Alexander B. Cabrera. I'm a lawyer and an accountant, CPA. Ako po ay Pilipino.

Simulan po natin ng ating kwentuhan sa inyong educational background. Saan po kayo nag-high school?

Ako po ay nag-high school sa Our Lady of Peace School, Antipolo Rizal.

At saan po kayo naman nag-aaral ng kolehyo?

Ako po ay nag-aaral ng kolehyo sa Philippine School of Business Administration in Quezon City.

Bakit po naman ninyo pinili ang PSBA or Philippine School of Business and Accountancy?

Nung ako po ay namimili ng paaralan ng PSBA po ay isa po sa mga pinakatanyag na accounting school. At ang isang mahalagang dahilan din po ay Isang sakay lang po ang PSBA galing po sa Antipolo Simbahan. Nasa Aurora Boulevard po siya. Kaya nung araw pa lang po, naka point to point na po ako.

Ano naman po ang inyong pinag-iaralan sa PSBA?

Bachelor of Science in Business Administration and Accountancy po.

At

kailan po kayo nagtapos sa kolehyong iyon?

1986 po.

Sabi ninyo kanina nung nagpakilala kayo na kayo'y Certified Public Accountant. Kailan po kayo nag-board exam as best as you can recall?

1987 po.

At kailan po kayo nanumpa bilang CPA as best as you can recall?

1988 po.

Could you kindly tell the Honorable Court how you started out as a young Certified Public Accountant?

Pumasok po ko noon sa Joaquin Cunanan and Company. Ngayon po ang bago niya pong pangalan ay Isla Lipana and Company. Pumasok po ako bilang isang staff auditor. Yan po yung entry level.

Magkano po yung inyong starting salary as a staff auditor if I may?

2375 po.

At hanggang kailan kayo nagtrabaho sa Isla Lipana and Company?

Hanggang 2025 po, bago po ako nag-retire.

In other words, Atty. Cabrera, mula nung kayo pumasok sa Isla Lipana noong late 1980s hanggang kayo ay nag-retire, tuloy-tuloy po ang inyong pagtatrabaho sa Isla Lipana?

Tama po, counselor.

Ano po ang inyong naging posisyon nung kayo ay nag-retire po?

Nung ako po ay nag-retire, ang tawag po nila sa akin ay chairman emeritus po.

Para po sa kaalaman ng mga kababayan natin na nunood, ano pong ibig sabihin ng chairman emeritus kung alam po ninyo?

Ang chairman emeritus po ay hindi po chairman. Wala po siyang power. And para sa akin po ang chairman emeritus is isa lamang pong term of endearment kung hindi man po respeto.

Pakilarawan po sa hukumang ito kung paano kayo umangat mula sa entry-level staff auditor. Hanggang kayo ay naging chairman emeritus ng Isla Lipana.

Opo. Galing po ng isang staff auditor, ako po ay naging isang senior associate sa tax department po. Bago po naging manager, senior manager, bago po naging partner, managing partner po ng tax. Bago po naging vice chairman ng firm at naging chairman po ng firm.

At ilan naman pong taon na itong Isla Lipana and Company, if

you know?

Opo, 104 years old na po ang Isla Lipana & Company.

Sa loob ng 104 years po na iyon, pang ilan kayo na kinilala bilang chairman emeritus?

Ako po ang unang kinilalang chairman emeritus po.

Para din po sa mga nanonood, ano pong klaseng firm ang Isla Lipana & Company?

Ito po ay isang audit, accounting, and business advisory firm po.

And generally, what kinds of services does that company provide?

Assurance and audit services po, tax services, deals and corporate finance, consulting, tsaka risk assurance services po.

Thank you, sir. For the record, at para din hindi malito ang mga hukom at pati mga ating mga kababayan, may iba po bang pangalan ang Isla Lipana & Company?

Opo, PWC po. PricewaterhouseCoopers pero PWC lang po.

Bakit may dalawang pangalan ng Isla Lipana and Company?

Ang PWC po ang International Affiliation po ng Isla Lipana and Company. Kami po ay membro po ng network po na yan.

Ano ang kaugnayan kung meron man ng Isla Lipana or PricewaterhouseCoopers sa multinational na kilala sa pangalang PricewaterhouseCoopers International Limited?

We signed a membership agreement, a network agreement with PWC International Limited. Pero hindi po sila partner. Bawal po yan. Pilipino lang po ang mga partner sa Isla Lipana.

At gaano po kalaki itong PricewaterhouseCoopers International Limited?

We have member firms in over 160 countries and we have employees of these member firms. Number around more than 200,000 internationally.

Sige po. Let's go back to how you rose up the corporate ladder. How many years did it take for you to become partner at Isla Lipana and Company?

I became partner po in 9 years or 9 and a half years po.

And in your experience, how long does it usually take for someone to make partner in your firm?

Around 12 to 15 years po.

Sabi po ninyo kanina na kayo ay CPA pero abogado din. First question lang po, saan po kayo nag-aral ng abogasiya?

Sa Ateneo Law School po.

Paano po kayo nakapag-aral ng law? Eh sabi nyo kanina tuloy-tuloy yung inyong pagtatrabaho sa Isla Lipana and Company.

Opo, nagtatrabaho po ako from 8 to 5 p.m. and mapasok po ako ng school mula po 6 o'clock to 9 or 9.30 po ng gabi.

Thank you po. Ba't di na lang kayo tumigil ng trabaho para makapag-concentrate sa pag-aaral ng law bilang full-time student?

Nung ako po ay nagsimulang mag-aral ng law, ang aking magulang, yung isa po ay retired na at yung daddy ko rin doon ay pa-retire na po. So, para na lang po ma-enjoy nila yung konti nilang naipon, ako na lang po yung gumawa ng paraan po para po sa aking paglo-law.

Sabi po ninyo kanina na

During the day, kayo ay nagtatrabaho. During the evenings, kayo ay nag-aaral ng law. Full load po ba yun sa law school?

Opo, isa lang po yung programa ng Ateneo Law School. Wala pong pang-istudyante or special program po for working students.

Pasensya na po sa mga kaibigan natin na taga-Ateneo Law. Pero alam ko medyo mataas po ang tuition doon. Paano ninyo na-afford ito?

Sa pamagitan po ng pagpapatuloy ng pagtatrabaho.

At kailan naman kayo nagtapos sa Ateneo School of Law as best as you can recall?

1994 po.

Ano naman degree ang natanggap ninyo mula sa Ateneo School of Law?

Juris Doctor degree po.

Para sa mga kababayan natin na hindi familiar po sa Juris Doctor, ano pong ibig sabihin nun?

Juris Doctor degree po eh, para pong Doctor of Law. Isa po ang tinayo sa mga naunang nag-offer po ng Juris degree program. Ang ibig pong sabihin yan ay para sa akin po ay bawat subject po sa isang gabi ay merong mga assignment na mga 30 cases po minimum siguro po naka-assign per subject. So parang sa isang gabi po pwede po kayong ma-assign na mga 100 cases po na babasahin po.

At kanina nagpakilala po kayo bilang abogado so I presume you took the bar exam and passed it?

Opo, sa awa ng Diyos po. Nakapasa naman po.

Balikan po natin yung inyong trabaho sa Isla Lipana. You said you entered that firm as a staff auditor. Generally po, anong ginagawa ng isang auditor sa firm na ganyan?

Ang auditor po ay nagkakandak po ng audit, external audit. Ito po yung tinatawag na regular audit.

Ang ginagawa niya pong audit ay hindi po para sa kumpanya kundi po para po sa public. Para sabihin po sa public na ang financial statements ng kumpanyang ito ay mapagkakatiwalaan.

At for what purpose po tinitingnan ng isang auditor ang mga financial statements ng isang kumpanya?

Opo, required po kasi itong financial statements na mag-support po sa income tax return at sinasubmit din po ito sa Securities and Exchange Commission.

Thank

you, sir.

What

kinds of opinions, if any, do auditors give?

Well, yung una po, yung clean opinion po. Ang ibig sabihin po ng clean opinion is yung financial statements are fairly stated in all general respects.

Yung isa po ay qualified opinion.

Which means may problema po yung financial statements. Either meron pong hindi nakita yung auditor at yung hindi niya po nakita ay material. Or nakita niya po at may nakita po siyang discrepancy at yung nakita niya pong discrepancy ay material. Pero sa dalawa pong sitwasyon na to, yung kanya pong nakitang discrepancy o hindi niya nakitang document, material man, ay hindi po pervasive.

Thank

you. Sa madaling salita, nag-iimbestiga kayo ng mga financial statements at documents Para malaman kung may tinatago ang kumpanya o individual, tama po ba yun?

Tama po yun. Tinitignan din po natin yung process po ng internal controls po ng kumpanya para malaman po kung mapagkakatiwalaan po yung controls. Kasi kung mapagkakatiwalaan po yung controls, lalo kayo magtitiwala sa numbers.

Kanina po nabanggit ninyo yung regular audit. What other kinds of audits are there, if any?

Meron pong... Special audits which is based on agreed upon procedures. Meron din naman pong forensic audits or fraud audits na mas masinsin po sa isang special audit. Meron din po namang internal audit po. Yung internal audit po is para po sa management.

Nabanggit po ninyo yung forensic audit at sabi nyo kanina na naghahanap kayo ng fraud. Pakipaliwanag po ng konti kung ano pa nga bang forensic audit na yan?

Ang forensic audit po ay ano eh, para pong nage-examine po kayo ng iba't ibang mga dokumento. Pero ang pagkakaiba po nito ay pinagtatagpi-tagpi niyo po yung mga dokumentong iyon para malaman po ang katotohanan base po sa kwento na inyong matutunghayan. So ito pong forensic audit ay kadalasan po ginagamit po ito sa courts. Ginagamit po ito privately pagka meron pong nag-i-invest po halimbawa sa isang kumpanya para malaman nung investor kung may problema yung kumpanya talaga pagka meron silang nabalitaan na may nangyayaring katiwalian dun sa kumpanya niyan. Tsaka ginagamit din po ito ng mga litigants po para po makakolekta sa mga stockholder po na may-ari po ng kumpanya. Para po ma-pierce po ba yung veil na tinatawag at maging liable hindi lang po yung corporation kung hindi po yung mga stockholders directly po.

Maraming salamat po. Let's talk about your training first. What additional training if any did you undergo at Isla Lipana and Company? in conducting these regular and forensic audits and the other audit-related services that you mentioned.

Opo, sa firm po kasi marami po kaming training, hindi po mabilang po. Pero bukod po sa mga trainings po inside the firm, ang pinakamahalaga po talagang training sa forensic is yung pang-araw-araw nyo pong ginagawa. Yun po talaga ang mahalagang training because only actual experience can really teach you how to do a forensic audit.

Then let me ask you, what work experience did you have if any in conducting these audits that you mentioned?

Samot-samot po eh. Marami pong financial audit related na forensic na ginawa namin. Pero minsan po yung mga kliyente po namin may pinasusundan po sa kanilang supply chain. Tinitingnan namin kung yung supply chain nila yung nagpo-provide po ng halimbawa toll manufacturer or service manufacturers nila kung nagko-comply po sa labor code sa batas po or sila po ba ay nag-ooperate ng sweatshop or nag-hire ba ng mga minor de edad minsan po ay may nag-forensic audit po kami ng mga computers po ng

kumpanya. Naghahanap po kami ng evidence po ng nagda-download po ng child pornography. So yung forensic audit po ay hindi lagi pong financial. Pero ang kadalasan ko pong ginagawa ay financial forensic.

Baka hindi niyo kayang sagutin po itong susunod na tanong ko.

More or less

po mga ilang taon kayo nagko-conduct na ng ganitong mga klaseng audit. kasama na po ang forensic audit.

Actually po nung nagsimula po akong maging auditor eh fraud audit po kagadang napasok. Ang sarap nga po magkwento kung pwede lang eh. Pero sa 37 years ko po talagang ginagawa po ito kasama po ng aking mga ibang trabaho eh talagang libo-libo na po talaga.

Napakahirap na po mabilang nung oras na ginugol ko po. Dito lang po sa Trabahong ito po. Napakalaking oras na nang ginugol.

Sabi niyo kanina that you rose from the ranks of Isla Lipana until you reached the highest position in the company. Kayo po ba ay pinadala ng inyong opisina sa ibang bansa para maging handa sa pamumuno?

Opo.

Yung training po namin sa technical, covered na covered po yan ng PWC. Pero about sa pamumuno po, kailangan pong mag-training po sa business schools. At yung una kong business school na pinagtrainingan ay Harvard Business School po on leadership and management.

Para po sa mga nanonood, ano po ang Harvard Business School?

Ang Harvard Business School po ay isa po sa mga top international business schools. Ang kanila pong method ay case study method. Ang ibig pong sabihin nun ay gumagamit po sila ng mga hango sa tunay na buhay na problema po ng business upang maging pamilyar po ang mga estudyante. So yung umaaten po ng Harvard Business School, this is actually a post-graduate course. So yung po mga graduate na at mga naghahanda na pong magkaroon ng mataas na katungkulan sa kumpanya, kadalasan po siya yung kumukuha po nito.

Aside from your training at the Harvard Business School. What other schools abroad, if any, did you attend?

Opo,

nag-aaral din po ako sa Wharton Business School po.

Ano naman po ang Wharton Business School?

Yung Wharton Business School po, katulad po ng Harvard, isa rin pong sa mga top business schools. Pero yung programa pong kinuha ko po, in collaboration po with three other business schools. IESE po sa Barcelona at CIBS po sa China. So tatlong lugar po yung pinuntahan po ng programang yun. Tatlong lugar po yung venue ng pag-aaral na po yun.

At sabi nyo kanina kayo ay isang CPA lawyer. Ilang taon na po kayo CPA lawyer?

So 1995 po ako naging lawyer. So mga 30 years na po. Or 31 po. Sama nyo po yung ngayon.

Move on na po tayo, Atty. Cabrera. Pag-usapan po natin yung inyong involvement kung meron man sa mga management at professional organizations. What management organizations, if any, do you belong to?

Isa po na na yung Management Association of the Philippines kung saan po ako po ay naging dating vice president.

Justice Reform Initiative po kung saan po ako po ay chairman.

Integrity Initiative po kung saan po ako ay naging dating

chairman.

Member din po ako ng AFP Multisectoral Governance Committee po.

Meron pa po mga iba.

Sige po. Babalikan po natin yung ibang mga nabanggit ninyo. Familiar po ba kayo sa Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila?

Opo.

And why are you familiar with this organization?

Dahil member po ako ng finance board ng

And very

briefly, anong ginagawa ninyo po bilang member ng finance board ng Arcam as you mentioned it?

Kami po yung nag-oversee po ng fiscal operations po ng Arcam at nag-a-advise po kung paano pagandahin ng governance. Kasama na rin po dito yung pagbantay po sa kanya po mga economic assets po.

What involvement, if any, have you had in any educational organizations, sir?

Ako po ay advisor po ng Philippine Business for Education.

How about the Second Congressional Commission on Education o yung tinatawag pong EDCOM II? What involvement, if any, have you had with that commission?

Opo, yung sa PBED po, ang layunin niya po ay lutasin po ang education crisis natin sa ating bansa. Yung PBID po ang isa po sa mga principal advocates po na mangyari po ang educational commission. So ako po ay member po ng standing committee on higher education po sa EDCOM 2.

Sige po, move on na po tayo at pag-usapan natin yung inyong mga awards kung meron man. What awards, Atty. Cabrera, have you received as a CPA lawyer?

Ako po yung nagkaroon po ng award ng Young Achiever in Public Practice, binigay po ng PICPA.

Ano po, I'm sorry to interrupt, ano po yung ibig sabihin ng PICPA?

PICPA po ay Philippine Institute of Certified Public Accountants po.

Meron po siyang, siguro po lahat po ang mga naging member po niya, mga 20,000 na po.

Tayo po mga abogado ay merong Integrated Bar of the Philippines National Organization. Is the PICPA similar organization? Tama po. Maliban po sa nabanggit ninyong Young Achiever in Public Practice Award, what other awards if any have you received?

Nakatanggap din po sa kanila ng Outstanding Professional in Public Practice po sa PICPA din po. At nakatanggap po ako ng recognition sa Philippine Regulatory Commission na isa po sa isang daang CPAs po. The centenarians po ang tawag po nila doon. Ito po yung mga recognizable CPAs po during the accounting professions past 100 years.

Yun po. What awards, if any, have you received as an alumnus of your college?

Nagkaroon po ako ng Outstanding Alumni Award po from PSBA.

At bilang CEO naman po, what awards have you received, if any?

Nagkaroon po ako ng recognition po as the CEO of the Year Award po ng Asian Leaders Organization.

Could you tell us a bit about the Asian Leaders Organization that you just mentioned?

Well, hinahanap niya po sa ating bansa ang Ang mga CEOs po na dapat pong bigyan ng recognition sa ibang-ibang aspeto po ng business.

Pag-usapan naman po natin yung inyong karanasan bilang resource person sa mga hearing ng legislative departments kung meron man. First sir, what participation if any have you had in legislative hearings of the Senate or House of Representatives?

Marami po eh. Marami na po akong naatenda na hearings po on proposed bills, lalo na po sa tax. Pero minsan po nasa mining or nasa ibang industries po.

As best as you can recall, I know this is a lot of information, pero maalala po ba ninyo kung kailan kayo unang kinumbida? ng kongreso na magtestigo bilang resource person?

Opo, naalala ko po. Nung ako po'y bata pa, ganito pa lang po kalit.

Umaten po ko nung deliberation po ng anong definition ng representation expenses at ang namuno po nung ng committee na po na yon ay si Senator Juan Ponce Enrile.

At ang mga ilang beses na po kayong tumistigo bilang resource person sa iba't ibang mga legislative inquiries ng Congress, both houses?

Kasi po sa isang taon mga several times po meron pa pong mga technical working groups. Kaya siguro po buong experience ko po over the past 37 or isama niyo po yung 38 years ko po after retirement, less than 100 po siguro yung na-attend ako na po.

Pag-usapan naman po natin ang inyong participation sa newspapers or other forms of mass media kung meron man. What work have you done in relation to newspapers or other forms of mass media, if any?

Ako po yung naging columnist po sa Philippine Star for nine years. Ang pangalan po ng column ko is As Easy As

ABC po.

Ano po mga paksa ang tinatalakay ninyo sa inyong column na iyon?

Well, una po, siyempre po yung pung mahalaga po sa business. Pero marami po akong tinatalakay doon tungkol po sa pagmamahal po sa sarili nating bansa. Ano po yung mga natututunan nating lesson sa mga ating mga naging national heroes. Nagsusunod din po ako about ESG, sustainability po, about the matrix of ESG which is environment, social, and governance. At tungkol po sa mga traditional values po ng isang Pilipino.

At kayo po ba

ay kinilala bilang

isang kolumnista?

Opo, na-recognize po, na-finalist po yung aking kolumn ng three times post ng Philippine Mass Media Awards, Catholic Mass Media Awards po.

Thank you. So far, napag-usapan na po natin yung inyong pagsusumika para maging CPA at lawyer, ang inyong pag-angat.

As a CPA lawyer who has worked for 37 years at least in the country's oldest accounting firm, what would you consider your specialties if any, sir?

Una po siguro yung M&A po. Mergers and

Acquisitions po.

Pag

-usapan po natin yung M&A na yan. Sa madaling salita dahil malamang hindi alam ng mga kababayan po yung mergers and acquisitions. Ano po ito?

Ang M&A po isang servisyong binibigay po natin sa isang investor or sa isa pong balak magbenta po ng kanyang kumpanya. Pero patukoy po sa isang investor, Kung isang investor po ay mag-i-invest sa isang company sa Pilipinas at may bibilhin po siyang kumpanya, kami po yung nagsusuri po sa kanila para sa kanila nung kumpanyang yun. Kasi po itong mga investor na to ay meron po silang negosyo. Doon po sila magaling. Pero hindi po nila kabisado kung paano po alamin kung ano talaga yung nangyayari doon sa kumpanyang yun. Una po sa lahat, yung financial statement bang yan ay nagsasabi ng katotohanan. Sino ang may-ari sa kumpanyang yan? Mabubuting tao ba yan? O may mga asulto rin? O may mga problema rin? Ano ang tunay na value ng kumpanyang yan? Hindi lamang based sa financial statements. Ano ang potential ng kumpanyang yan? O kung lugi man siya, may potential ba? O kung kumikita man siya ngayon, baka bukas eh lugi na. Marami pong tinitignan na aspeto katulad kasama na rin po dyan yung kanilang pagsunod sa batas sa lahat po ng uri ng batas at regulations.

Tinitignan po din natin yung kanilang skill set, yung po bang mga taong nandyan sa kumpanyang yan ay magagaling o qualified po kasi kailangan po i-consider lahat po yan sa kanila pong sustainability. Sumusunod ba yan sa environment law? So puro usok yung factory niyan, baka may ipasari yan. O meron po ba yan mga utang na hindi nakasaad sa financial statements? Meron po bang litigation yung kumpanya niya na pending? Kaya po namin tinitignan lahat ito kasi po pag binili po yan ng kumpanya, mamanahin po nila lahat ng problema pong iyon.

Para po rin sa kalaban ng lahat, dahil ako rin po ay hindi marunong dito sa mga bagay na ito.

Ano pong pagkakaiba ng merger at acquisition?

pinagsasama mo ba yung operations mo

o gusto nyo mag-operate nang magkahiwalay?

Hindi ko na po itatanong mismo sa inyo yung mga pangalan ng mga naging kliyente nyo sa M&A. I would assume may issues of confidentiality po yan. Gusto ko lang po malaman, anong mga klaseng malalaking merger at acquisition ang nahawakan ninyo?

Sobrang dami po eh. Pero mga pag binanggit ko po sila parang masyadong malaki na po yung clue. Pero meron po akong ginawa na napakalaki po sa food industry. Meron po akong ginawa na napakalaki po sa, how do you describe?

Sabihin na lang po natin generally agriculture ang kanila pong supply chain, pero retail po ang kanila pong final product. At recently po, at isa po ito sa mga malaking investments po noong last year na sa logistics and agricultural sector po.