WEBVTT 00:00:00.690 --> 00:00:16.930 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Titignan po ngayong audit after the conduct of audit kung meron po ba talagang violation po. But sa ngayon po, Your Honor, sa ngayon po ang alam ko lang po is may ganun pong na-receive ng 2023 po, Your Honor. 00:00:17.010 --> 00:00:25.510 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: As we speak po ba, ma'am, ongoing pong audit ng ika nga kay VP Sara at sa kanyang husband sa kanilang income tax returns? 00:00:26.030 --> 00:00:27.050 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po, Your Honor. 00:00:27.330 --> 00:00:35.630 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. Kailan po ma'am? Kambi po tayo sa Cale88 naman po ma'am. Kailan po nag-register sa BIR ang Cale88? 00:00:37.030 --> 00:00:39.050 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, may I refer to my notes pa? 00:00:39.150 --> 00:00:39.250 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Please. 00:00:52.440 --> 00:01:00.280 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based pa sa BIR records, nag-register po yung Cale88 sa BIR ng October 15, 2021 po. 00:01:00.760 --> 00:01:12.280 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: 2021. Base po sa financial statements ng Cale88. Maliban po sa sales nila, ano po po ang pwedeng maging source nila ng pera ng mga panahon na iyon, ma'am? Did they include it there? 00:01:15.610 --> 00:01:21.810 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pwede po ba akong makahingi ng copy ng kanilang audited financial statements po? 00:01:21.810 --> 00:01:22.050 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sige 00:01:22.050 --> 00:01:22.210 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: po. 00:01:27.910 --> 00:01:31.690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would the assisting counsel be able to help out? 00:01:34.710 --> 00:01:40.010 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: And I have one last question, Mr. Presiding Officer, to give way to the other senator judges. 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:00.880 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: May I know kung anong year 00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:01.100 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po? 00:02:01.100 --> 00:02:06.740 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: 2021-2022 po. Or hanggang 2026. 00:02:40.810 --> 00:03:07.860 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Balikan na lang po natin ma'am para in the interest of time. Ang isa pa pong katanungan ko, yung Kale po. Is it Kale or Kalye? Kasi naguguluhan po eh. Or Kale? Does it mean to say yung Kale po na yun is Carpio-Lebosada dahil ika nga joint venture po itong? business na ito sa pagitan ni Carpio and Lebusada. Ma'am? 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:15.120 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Wala pong nakalagay sa audited financial statements regarding that. Ang nakalagay lang po is Cale88. 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:26.540 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Cale. C-A, then capital letter yung L po ulit, di ba? 10-E. So, Cale. So, parang two words. Go ahead, ma'am. Meron na po ba kahit one year lang po? Ano pong other income? 00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:32.620 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kahit na isang taon lang po, 2022. Say 2022 po. 00:03:34.570 --> 00:03:35.130 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2020. 00:03:35.750 --> 00:03:38.830 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Or kung ano po merong record kayo dyan sa harap po ninyo? 00:03:40.270 --> 00:03:55.050 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang nakalagay po dito ay engage in the business to make or manufacture, process, sell, trade, and export food products to bring new and exciting products to the local and international company and engage po sila 00:03:55.050 --> 00:03:59.890 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: in the manufacture of food products specifically as an export producer of banana chips po. 00:04:00.470 --> 00:04:02.170 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So, it's all export po. 00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:19.620 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: My question kasi po is, aside from export, meron pa po bang iba? Kasi we know that they're exporting. Yun po yung diniklara po nila. Yung income po nila from exports. That's why they get ikang remittances overseas dahil nga po doon sa export. 00:04:21.450 --> 00:04:23.350 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yun lang po yung nakalagay dito, Your Honor. 00:04:23.630 --> 00:04:27.350 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. Thank you po, Madam Witness. Presiding Officer, maraming salamat po. 00:04:27.450 --> 00:04:32.710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you very much, Senator Judge Tulfo. Senator Judge Hontiveros is recognized. You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. You have two minutes. 00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:35.920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thereafter, 00:04:36.020 --> 00:04:37.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Raffy Tulfo. 00:04:40.460 --> 00:04:44.360 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon po, Atty. Anne. 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.820 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Magandang hapon po, ma'am. Your Honor. 00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:57.400 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Base po sa records ng BIR, magkano po yung total sales ng Cale88 mula 2021 hanggang 2025? 00:04:59.500 --> 00:04:59.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:09.340 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: total sales po ay, based po sa BIR records, may total sales po na 208,493,545 pesos po. 00:05:09.340 --> 00:05:11.300 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay, 208 00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:26.160 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: million pesos plus. Sabi naman po kasi ng Anti-Money Laundering Council, 776 million pesos ang inflows sa Cale88, at least na may. 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:47.960 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: covered transaction reports at saka suspicious transaction reports. Yun lang naman yung mga inireports sa AMLC. So of course, posibleng may lampas pa doon, iba pang perang pumasok. Iniimbestigahan na po ba ng BIR yung mga inflows na yon? Yung mga na-cover ng covered at suspicious transaction reports? 00:05:53.070 --> 00:06:21.450 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang kasama po kasi sa checklist ng letters of authority, meron pong specific documents. And yung bank records po is not one of them since it is covered by bank secrecy. But if the taxpayer po voluntarily shows or submits such documents to the BIR, dun po nga yun makikita kung may mga, kung ano po yung mga inflows na yun, ma'am. 00:06:21.450 --> 00:06:22.070 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Your 00:06:22.070 --> 00:06:46.810 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Honor. Ah, so pero kung yung account holder na malamang hindi alam or supposed to be hindi alam kung nagkaroon ng Covered transaction report or suspicious transaction report ang anumang transaction niya ay hindi mag-voluntaryo. Is there no other way or is there a way na mapag-alaman pa rin ng BIR yung findings ng AMLC at maimbestigahan ito or wala? 00:06:47.610 --> 00:07:02.470 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang alam ko po ay meron pong coordination ang BIR and AMLC to deter yung mga violating taxpayers on that. So may ganun pong coordination po. 00:07:02.470 --> 00:07:03.670 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright po. 00:07:03.750 --> 00:07:39.090 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Kaya ko po itinatanong ito ay dahil ni-review din po ng opisina ko yung ibang foreign-based companies na nagpadala ng pera sa Cale88. Maliban dun sa mga nakabase sa China. So ito po yung CTRs and STRs from other countries na kinull ng Court Secretariat ayon dun sa motion or request ni Sen. Judge Migs. And lumalabas na at least isa doon ay posibleng sangkot sa money laundering activities. 00:07:40.890 --> 00:09:03.700 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Dito po sa country Ukraine, The Cale88 list of foreign transactions identifies a Ukrainian remitter by the name of Arkmen LLC using registration number 41423974. The address stated in the list is Zoryana 3A, Tseboliv, Ukraine. May mga earlier transactions po na nagre-refer sa Haharina Street 30 pero na-confirm naman po namin na Parehong address po yun. Lumang pangalan lang nung kaya yung haharina. Bagong pangalan. Yung winding up this first question, Mr. Presiding Officer, yung Zoriana. Pero basically parehong address to. At itong registration number 41423974 at yung address Zoriana 30A ay nagko-correspond sa isang kumpanya involved sa isang criminal proceeding na binuksan po nung May 19, 2025 para sa fraud and money laundering kaugnay ng 1.225 million euros. Nung March 2026, yung Pechersky District Court of Kiev ordered a search of Arkmen's premises in April 2026. Ordered 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:25.440 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: a freeze of the suspect's 100% shareholding in ARCMEN. At yung huling inward remittance po nitong ARCMEN LLC sa Cale88 ay nung May 30, 2025 na pagkatapos na po ng petsa ng pagsisimula ng criminal proceedings. So yung huling tanong ko sa round na ito sa inyo, Atty. Anne, 00:09:27.150 --> 00:09:43.570 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Kung sabi natin may mga lehitimong transaksyon naman sa likod ng mga international remittances na ito sa pagitan ng ARCMEN LLC at saka Cale88, tama po ba dapat na ni-report yan bilang sales ng Cale88 at dapat pinagbayaran nila ng tax? 00:09:45.050 --> 00:09:53.870 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Kung ito po ay, sorry, kung ito po ay sales po, then it should have been reported po in the annual income tax return po. 00:09:54.390 --> 00:10:13.930 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. And kung sakaling yung coordination na binanggit nyo kanina sa pagitan ng BIR at AMLC ay either ini-investigate na ito, maaaring, maaaring, yun yung isang tatanungin kung na-report na nga po yung ganitong mga sales. 00:10:14.390 --> 00:10:15.310 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes, for your honor. 00:10:15.550 --> 00:10:16.390 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: We'll take 00:10:16.390 --> 00:10:16.970 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: note of that. 00:10:17.050 --> 00:10:23.570 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Atty. Anna. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer, till last few questions for the second round. Salamat po. 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:27.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Hontiveros. Senator Judge Raffy is recognized. 00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:29.880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have two minutes, sir. 00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:52.240 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Sa prosecution mo, nang tanong ko ano. 00:10:54.320 --> 00:11:06.300 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: During the direct examination yesterday, you did ask the witness about a certain BIR Form 2316 that indicates that the BP-SARA received compensation from the City of Davao. Tama? 00:11:06.300 --> 00:11:07.040 Atty. Erwin G. Matib: Yes, Your Honor. 00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:09.120 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: This was apparently for legal activities. Do you confirm? 00:11:10.020 --> 00:11:10.880 Atty. Erwin G. Matib: Yes, Your Honor. 00:11:11.140 --> 00:11:26.800 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Kay Madam Witness. Madam Witness? As a follow-up dun sa question ni Senator Erwin, nabanggit mo kanina employer ang nagbigay ng pera kay BP Sara. I would assume the employer would have been the City of Davao. 00:11:27.300 --> 00:11:28.080 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:11:28.380 --> 00:11:36.060 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Magkaano po yung ibinayad kay BP Sara for legal fees ba ang tawag noon? 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:39.700 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Or legal activities? 00:11:39.700 --> 00:11:40.540 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, 00:11:40.780 --> 00:11:45.420 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: yung sa BIR Form 2316 po pertains to the compensation income po. 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:48.830 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kaya nga sa 2023, magkano po? 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:15.970 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po dito sa BIR, Form 2316, may gross compensation po na P82,327.45 po. 00:12:16.310 --> 00:12:22.290 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Yan po ay para sa legal activities. Ano po yung legal activities na yon? Ano pong ibig sabihin noon? 00:12:23.110 --> 00:12:27.070 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, this pertains po sa gross compensation po. Compensation 00:12:27.070 --> 00:12:27.490 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: income. 00:12:27.790 --> 00:12:28.230 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sweldo po. 00:12:28.410 --> 00:12:32.910 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kaya nga, tumanggap siya ng sweldo sa City of Davao for legal fees niya. 00:12:33.770 --> 00:12:34.610 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: As a lawyer? 00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:40.330 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ay, hindi po, Your Honor. As mayor po at ito, 2023. 00:12:40.330 --> 00:12:41.570 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2023, 00:12:42.010 --> 00:12:46.520 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: at that time, BP na po siya. So, tumanggap siya ng pera mula sa... 00:12:46.520 --> 00:12:47.560 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Hindi ko 00:12:47.560 --> 00:12:54.280 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po masasabi, Your Honor, kung ano po yung... Basta nakalagay lang po kasi dito, Your Honor, ay gross compensation income. 00:12:55.480 --> 00:13:11.490 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Income, hindi as BP, kundi as from the City of Davao, nakatanggap siya ng legal, fiscal sa legal activities. Madam Witness, kayo bilang isang abogado, aware mo ba kayo sa Article 7, Section 13? Alam niyo po ba yan? 00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:16.580 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa Constitution po. Yes po, yung kahapon pa na. 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:23.060 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Sige po, ano po ang nakapalob sa Article 7, Section 13 bilang isang abogado? 00:13:23.420 --> 00:13:44.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: From my recollection po, the President, Vice President, and certain officers of the government are not allowed to practice, profession, or participate in any government contracts or contracts with any government agency or GOCC or instrumentality po. 00:13:45.550 --> 00:14:01.190 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So in other words, di siya pwedeng makatanggap ng double compensation, something like that. Na bilang BP siya, hindi siya pwedeng tumanggap ng ibang trabaho outside of being BP, so di siya pwedeng tumanggap ng sweldo in this case for legal activities, parang ganoon. 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:01.870 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:14:02.570 --> 00:15:23.250 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Now, precisely, Mr. Presiding Officer, ang hindi ko po maarok, si BP Sara ay isang mapanuring abogado. Ang kanyang kabyak si Atty. Mons Carpio ay isang tanyag na abogado at kasapi sa isang dikapanilya law firm ang Carpio Lawyers. And ang kanyang chief of staff ay isang abogado rin. At nakasisiguro po tayo na mayroong pangibang mahusay na abogado sa OVP. Now, bakit kahit isa man lang sa kanila, hindi saulado ang Article 7, Section 13 ng ating konstitusyon? Eh si Ma'am nga, isang pagkarinong abogado, alam niya. Strike 2 na po ito, Mr. Presiding Officer. Kung inyo po matatandaan, dati ko na naitalakay dito ang hindi pag-divest ni VP Sara sa mga kumpanya kung saan siya po ay isa sa mga member ng Board of Directors matapos siyang halal bilang ikakalawang Pangulo. Nobody did give her that advice. Now, maybe, just maybe, her people probably knew. And the reason kung bakit, you breeze. 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:59.160 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Plain and simple. They intentionally ignored the said law thinking that they are exception to the rule. Because for them, what are they in power for? Therefore, they should be untouchable. Ang sisisihing ko po dito ay ang mga nakapaligid kay Bipi Sara dahil ipinahamak nila siya. Hindi niya siya. Inalayo sa kapahamakan, like what's happening now, ipinahamak nila ang ating butihing ikalawang Pangulo. Maraming salamat po. 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:30.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 2023, the, the, the, the, the, the, the referral to the 2023 filing, correct? 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:36.180 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: Yes, Your Honor. And, well, we were not supposed to disclose it at this point. 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:36.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then allow me, 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:45.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: allow me. Attorney Ann, to clarify, yung binabasa po niyong taong 2023, filing po yan, tama? 00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:48.690 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Atachment po siya sa filing ng kanyang return. 00:16:48.930 --> 00:16:54.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung attachment yan sa filing ng 2023, ibig sabihin patungkol yan sa kinita ng taong 2022. 00:16:57.550 --> 00:16:59.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2023 filing ka mo eh. 00:16:59.650 --> 00:17:03.110 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: For the year 2023 na na-file ng 2024. 00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:08.090 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pertains taxable 2023 po. 00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:11.010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So 2023 taxable year. 00:17:11.290 --> 00:17:11.790 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:17:12.050 --> 00:17:13.430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Finial ng 2024. 00:17:14.250 --> 00:17:14.630 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:17:14.770 --> 00:17:17.890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So the document you're referring to was filed in 2024. 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:19.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama? 00:17:20.060 --> 00:17:24.560 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Specifically po, April 11, 2024 po. 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:26.340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Finile? 00:17:26.340 --> 00:17:27.060 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:17:27.060 --> 00:17:31.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: E ano po yung binabanggit ni Atty. Christine kanina na 2022? 00:17:33.300 --> 00:17:37.240 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: That's another year po. That's for taxable year 2022. 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Na finile nung 2023? 00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:40.160 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:46.620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So may isa pang finile ng 2024 tungkol sa compensation income ng 2023? 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:47.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:48.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Correct? 00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:49.200 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:17:50.790 --> 00:17:53.250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now, I don't know why you're standing up, Attorney Mike. Yes. 00:17:53.890 --> 00:18:15.540 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: If I may, Your Honor, with all due respect. And I will be as appropriate as I can be, Your Honor. I will just say that we will address this issue. Kasi alam naman natin pag mag-headline yan eh. So, we will just assure this court that we will address this issue. and faces head on and give you a perfectly reasonable explanation during our presentation of our evidence. 00:18:15.540 --> 00:18:16.200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I thought Attorney 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:20.160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kristine already addressed it ably earlier. Sans this clarification. 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.220 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: Unless of course the court would like to hear from 00:18:24.220 --> 00:18:24.380 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: me. 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:24.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not 00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:25.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this time. We will get 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:28.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to your time. 00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:39.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What you're saying is that you have a plausible explanation for this, only that this witness will not be the one to be able to explain it. 00:18:40.010 --> 00:18:47.370 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: Exactly, Your Honor. We will be presenting a witness for this particular issue. The relevant witness is supported by records and documents. 00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:50.870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Let that be placed on the record. Again, 00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:52.810 Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: thank you, Your Honor, for being patient. 00:18:52.810 --> 00:18:56.770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Atty. Mike. Sen. Judge Villanueva is recognized, you have two minutes sir. 00:18:56.790 --> 00:19:05.750 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. Before I start, Mr. President, Mr. Presiding Officer, is it Cale or Callie? 00:19:08.790 --> 00:19:11.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Use either because we don't... 00:19:11.290 --> 00:19:25.310 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yeah, because I'm being bombarded by corrections. It's not Cale though, but it's Cale. Because Callie is supposed to be double L. Anyway, let me ask that question, Madam Witness. 00:19:28.430 --> 00:19:59.280 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Dito po sa Annex X, H, I'm sorry, Annex H ng Cale88. 150 million ang sales noong 2024 pero 6.13 million ang reported loss. Pwede ko bang malaman sa inyong records ano yung expenses o dahilan ng pagkalugi? At sino naman po yung nagbigay ng pondong nagpapatuloy sa operasyon? Because based on the 2023 AFS, 125,000 ang paid up capital pero 23 million ang sales. 00:20:00.990 --> 00:20:05.510 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, if I may be given a copy po ng audited financial statements? 00:20:06.250 --> 00:20:09.870 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Mr. Presiding Officer, can we ask the, okay, thank you. 00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:21.440 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, saang particular year po? 00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:24.840 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Diyan sa Annex H ng 2024. 00:20:27.570 --> 00:20:28.170 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2024. 00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:42.640 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kita dyan yung 6.13 million na losses, pero 150 million yung sales. 00:20:45.590 --> 00:21:10.990 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po dito, may sales po sila na 150,595,605 na exempt at may sales din po na under sa regular, subject to regular income tax na 169,564 pesos or a total of 150,765,259 po. And then meron po silang 00:21:15.310 --> 00:21:16.130 Sen. Joel Villanueva: But in those 00:21:16.130 --> 00:21:16.750 Sen. Joel Villanueva: years, 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:20.550 Sen. Joel Villanueva: may question ka niya, in those years, losses, hindi po ba? 00:21:20.730 --> 00:21:21.250 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:23.780 Sen. Joel Villanueva: 6.13 million. 00:21:26.290 --> 00:21:46.870 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Nakita po ba? Uulitin ko lang ko kasi nag-ani yung time ko. It's the same question from my first question. Please forgive me. Hindi ako nasagot doon sa tanong ko na... Sino, ano yung dahilan ng paggalugay kung nakikita po dyan at sino yung nagbibigay ng pondo para magpatuloy po yung operation? 00:21:48.100 --> 00:22:04.700 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po dito, marami po silang expenses. Umabot po ng 11,428,809 pesos po yung kanilang expenses. And based dito po sa audited financial statements, 00:22:06.730 --> 00:22:16.720 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yung kanilang operating expenses is salaries, light and water expenses, automobile, freight out, consultant expense. 00:22:17.320 --> 00:22:30.430 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. Yung isang tanong ko po kasi kung losses, inuulit ko lang ulit. Inuulit ko lang ulit yung tanong ko. Yung losses po, napapakita po ba kung sino yung nagpapaluwal? 00:22:30.590 --> 00:22:32.250 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ah, yung nagpapaluwal. 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:34.210 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kasi losses po eh, di ba? 00:22:36.220 --> 00:22:41.860 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Nakalagay po ba dyan? Sine yung nagpo-pondo para magpatuloy yung operasyon? 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:43.680 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Meron 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:44.780 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po sa notes. 00:22:45.040 --> 00:22:46.020 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Let me just 00:22:46.020 --> 00:22:46.560 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: look at 00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:46.700 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: the 00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:47.640 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: notes. 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:52.020 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: ... 00:23:18.190 --> 00:23:52.060 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Again sir, your honor, I remember this but I cannot, I don't have the other document. I can't see the specific but nakalagay po dun na if I remember it. Sorry, based sa recollection ko po, the company po, yung sa cash nila is medyo parang may qualified opinion and then the management will provide for the expenses po ng company considering na losses po sila. 00:23:52.140 --> 00:24:13.650 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Dito po ako tutuloy no, 2023 AFS ng Cale88, 23 million po yung gross sales. May 3.33 million in direct labor at bukod po po ito sa 205,000 in salary and wages. Pwede po bang malaman ilan ang workers or contractors behind these costs? 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:17.820 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Wala po, Your Honor, nakalagay dito kung ilan po. 00:24:17.820 --> 00:24:18.300 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Walang payroll, 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.540 Sen. Joel Villanueva: work records, proof of payment? 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:30.180 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Total lang po ng lahat nung binayaran nila na salaries po. Pero yung breakdown po kung ilan, wala pong nakalagay, Your Honor. 00:24:30.570 --> 00:24:42.450 Sen. Joel Villanueva: doon sa alpha list 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:54.370 Sen. Joel Villanueva: This 00:24:54.370 --> 00:25:07.570 Sen. Joel Villanueva: is alarming, your honor. You're looking at a company with 150 million sales, 6.13 million ang losses, dalawa yung empleyado? 00:25:08.310 --> 00:25:14.570 Atty. Erwin G. Matib: I believe the good senator is referring to the general information sheets where it's required to state how many employees. 00:25:15.030 --> 00:25:18.570 Sen. Joel Villanueva: That's my question and I'm sure it's in the alpha list. 00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:24.240 Sen. Joel Villanueva: The chairperson of the Senate Committee on Labor, so I know this. 00:25:29.910 --> 00:25:52.340 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kasi gusto kong malaman, bakit ganon? Dalawa lang yung employees na submitted. Around 150 million ang reported sales and based on previous witnesses, nabanggit pa yung foreign transactions, Senator Riza made mention about this. Kung kaunti lang yung employee, paano po yun? Paano nahahandle yung ganitong kalaking operations? 00:25:53.610 --> 00:26:02.670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will provide the document. The clerk of court is directed to call it from the submitted exhibits. If you know the answer to the question, attorney, and kindly answer it, is that possible? 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:04.440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:04.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it possible? 00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:17.250 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Again, di ko po masasabi kasi wala po ako dun sa company na yun. But if ganito po, at manufacturer po siya ng... 00:26:17.250 --> 00:26:18.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You read it 00:26:18.550 --> 00:26:20.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kanina, ma'am. Manufacturer, banana chips, 00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:26.550 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Then parang... Impossible po unless nakamachine sila ng dalawang employee lang. 00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:42.290 Sen. Joel Villanueva: I'll take that word impossible. But can the BIR reconcile this cost with the employee? Again, Alphalise or the GIS, Forms 2316 and applicable withholding records? 00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:46.180 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: We will submit, Your Honor. We will submit. 00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:58.440 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Tignan na lang po natin. Sige, punta po ako doon sa 2024 AFS at ITR. Magkano po yung direct labor, salaries, and wages na reported? 00:27:00.530 --> 00:27:09.770 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: For 2024 po, salaries and wages, meron po silang 1,227,042 pesos po based sa audited financial statements. 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:11.420 Sen. Joel Villanueva: I'm sorry, again? 00:27:12.300 --> 00:27:20.480 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po sa audited financial statements, meron po silang salaries and wages na 1,227,042 pesos po. 00:27:21.580 --> 00:27:31.840 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And sa foreign transactions, tugma po ba yung sales invoice, shipping records, and the logistic costs sa goods actually supplied? 00:27:33.370 --> 00:27:37.390 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ah, yun nabanggit ko po kanina pertains to salaries and wages po. 00:27:37.410 --> 00:28:01.410 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Opo, opo. I know that but I'm talking now about the foreign transactions. Tugma po ba yung sales invoices, shipping records, at logistics costs sa goods actually supplied? Baka ho kasi gusto kong malaman meron po bang missing records na kailangan po nilang i-produce para masuportahan po ito? 00:28:03.620 --> 00:28:27.270 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang meron lang po kasi ako, Your Honor, apologies, is the audited financial statement and the copy of the annual income tax return. But the invoices po and other supporting documents wala po. But may audit na po ang company na ito and the revenue officers will have to check the supporting documents po na. sa lahat po ng line item ng expenses po nila, Your Honor. 00:28:27.450 --> 00:29:05.910 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Salamat po. And just in closing, again, I'm really interested and was surprised to find out that there are only two employees. Kasi in 2023, wala. Or 2024, yung wala. 2025, nagkaroon ng dalawa. If I'm not mistaken, no? Nagkaroon ng dalawang employees. So, we wanted to test whether or not The reported sales and foreign dealings are supported by an identifiable workforce, suppliers, and actual production or training activity. Kasi yung small workforce, kayo na ho yung sa bibig nyo nang galing. Parang impossible. 00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:24.360 Sen. Joel Villanueva: To be consistent with the outsourcing or automation. And again, the question seeks the documented explanation and does not presume, I'm not saying, I'm presuming this is a fictitious operation. It's just alarming. Thank you, Madam Witness. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:24.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Pangilinan is recognized 00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:25.160 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you, Mr. 00:29:33.070 --> 00:30:27.800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Presiding Officer. Before I proceed with my questions, can we just administrative... matters to save on time so that it isn't charged to my time. Could the witness prepare the following documents? The audited financial statements of GenCorp. 2022, 2023, and 2024. This is attached to the, if I understand it correctly, the income tax, corporate income tax. And then the other one is the annual income tax returns of spouses Manases and Sara Duterte. This is for 2022. 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 2023, 2024, and 2025. 00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:38.620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: When you're ready with it, ma'am, I can start. 00:30:39.300 --> 00:30:39.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 00:30:40.490 --> 00:30:44.050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: document do you have with you now available? 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:46.270 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Wala po, Your Honor. 00:30:46.270 --> 00:30:47.070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala pa? 00:30:48.030 --> 00:30:48.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's 00:30:48.550 --> 00:30:50.350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not part of the table or summary you have? 00:30:52.570 --> 00:30:57.620 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Dito po sa table summaries includes only the totals, 00:30:57.620 --> 00:30:57.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: some 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.280 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: portions of the annual income tax returns. 00:31:01.270 --> 00:31:04.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting Councils, kindly help out Atty. N. 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.940 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: GenCorp 00:31:07.260 --> 00:31:28.690 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 2023 and 2024 and the annual income tax returns 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 of spouses Sara and... You have it? 00:31:29.030 --> 00:31:30.470 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: The GenCorp, yes, Pa. 00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:31.490 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And the... The 00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:32.170 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: spouses, po. 00:31:32.170 --> 00:31:32.590 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: You 00:31:32.590 --> 00:31:32.750 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: have it? 00:31:33.130 --> 00:31:33.550 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes, sir. 00:31:33.550 --> 00:31:33.890 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: At your 00:31:33.890 --> 00:31:34.190 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: honor. 00:31:34.570 --> 00:31:56.430 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: yes okay thank you um you submitted records BIR records uh for gen spouses muna uh sabi niyo sa kanilang annual income tax uh can you confirm uh cash on hand and in bank was 2022 was 21 million 2020 00:31:58.610 --> 00:32:00.730 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: ... 00:32:12.100 --> 00:32:19.540 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: As of December 31, 2022 po, meron po silang cash na P21,234,980 po. 00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:20.360 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And 00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:33.310 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: then in 2023, do you confirm? It was P28,971,725 cash on hand in their annual income tax return. 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:45.100 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: As of December 31, 2023, P28,971,725 po. 00:32:45.300 --> 00:32:58.000 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And then in 2024, Again, sa kanilang income tax returns mag-asawa, 15 million cash on hand and in bank. 15,525,209. 00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:09.830 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 15,525,209 pesos for 2024. 00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:22.290 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And finally, sa 2025 annual income tax return cash on hand and in bank, they reported, the spouses, 13,804,540. 00:33:22.510 --> 00:33:23.370 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:35.720 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Bakit? Can you explain? Since you answered questions on SALN, would you in your SALN identify cash on hand? 00:33:37.650 --> 00:33:39.250 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: In my SALN po? 00:33:39.390 --> 00:33:40.430 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes. Your SALN? 00:33:40.610 --> 00:33:41.230 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:33:41.370 --> 00:33:43.070 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. So you put cash on hand? 00:33:43.290 --> 00:33:45.690 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. Yun po yung turo sa amin sa BIR. 00:33:45.850 --> 00:33:52.250 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And they put in their annual income tax return cash on hand? Sila? Yung spouses? Or in bank? 00:33:52.430 --> 00:33:53.350 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa audited financial 00:33:53.350 --> 00:33:54.010 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: statements 00:33:54.010 --> 00:33:54.210 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po. 00:33:54.250 --> 00:33:54.630 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:33:54.630 --> 00:33:55.460 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: That's a heading. 00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:56.290 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Separate line item. 00:33:57.210 --> 00:33:57.610 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So, 00:33:57.830 --> 00:34:26.690 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: dito sa annual income tax returns, meron silang cash on hand. Pero sa kanilang SALN, nung yung testigo, walang nakalagay undeclared ang cash on hand. Ang nilagay nila, liquid assets. Other various assets. At even yung nilagay nila doon, mas maliit kesa sa cash on hand. Would that be a concern for the BIR? I mean, on its face. 00:34:30.250 --> 00:34:32.930 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa BIR po kasi... 00:34:32.930 --> 00:34:34.290 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Kasi 00:34:34.490 --> 00:34:51.610 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: ang SALN, yan ang ginagamit na basihan para sa ano ang assets and net worth mo, diba? Yung income tax returns, dyan nakalagay din kung ano yung income mo at yung financial statement mo, diba? Yung audit... 00:34:53.390 --> 00:35:11.470 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: AFS, audited financial statements. So should that be a concern for BIR na iba ang naka-report cash on hand dito pero dito walang naka-declare ang cash on hand? Or kung meron mang naka-various amounts, maliit kumpara dun sa annual financial statements? 00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:42.510 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Para po sa BIR, ang aming directive is to Check and make sure that all taxpayers reports their income and lahat po ng taxes on that are paid. Kung may mga discrepancies on cash and hindi po ito ma-reconcile, then it can be presumed na income unless supportahan or substantiate ng taxpayer. So kung ganun po, baka ma-issuean po ng deficiency taxes. 00:35:42.990 --> 00:35:55.570 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, so maliwanag may concern. Now, just one quick question. Sabi niyo kanina, salaries and wages ng Cale88, 1,200,000? 00:35:56.410 --> 00:35:57.870 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Base po kanina, yes. 00:35:57.910 --> 00:35:58.670 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Is that for a year? 00:35:58.970 --> 00:35:59.930 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: For one year po. 00:36:00.330 --> 00:36:06.370 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So that's 97,000 pesos a month for 13 months kung may 13 month pay. Tama ba? 00:36:06.570 --> 00:36:09.110 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: If you divided by 13, Your Honor, wala po akong calculator. 00:36:09.110 --> 00:36:09.690 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Wala 00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:40.920 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: pang bonus, wala pang ano. If 97,000 pesos a month and you are in manufacturing and you bring in 1.2 billion pesos worth of sales, 315 million from China, ang salaries at wages mo 97,000 a month, anong klaseng manufacturing ang ka? You're not competent to answer that, no? But does that raise a question for the declaration and the document that was submitted to you? 00:36:41.780 --> 00:36:44.380 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po, and it will be checked sa audit po. 00:36:44.600 --> 00:36:46.360 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: No further questions, Mr. President. 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:50.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you very much, Senator Judge Pangilinan. The Senate President is recognized. 00:36:50.680 --> 00:36:52.270 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank 00:36:52.270 --> 00:36:55.330 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Atty. Anne. 00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:56.250 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Good afternoon, 00:36:56.350 --> 00:36:57.050 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor. 00:36:57.050 --> 00:37:05.170 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sundan ko lang yung mga tanong ng ibang kasamahan natin. Babalik ako doon sa Cale88 at doon sa e-car. 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:27.380 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Nabanggit kanina, nagkaroon na ng extensive discussion doon sa e-car. Pero basically, kung hindi nagbayad ng e-car sa pag-transfer ng taxes, Hindi valid kung ano man yung sale na nangyari from the perspective of the BIR? 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:40.060 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Hindi naman po sa hindi valid kasi the law on contracts will apply pero may deficiency taxes po na kailangan bayaran on that kung may transfer man po talagang nangyari. 00:37:40.340 --> 00:37:46.240 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pwede bang sabihin hindi perfected yung transfer dahil hindi nagbayad ng taxes? 00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:57.600 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Again, Your Honor, I think that the law on contracts will apply. Yung object costs and the... 00:37:57.600 --> 00:38:01.440 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: From the eyes of the BIR. From the eyes of the BIR. 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:05.300 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: From the eyes of the BIR. 00:38:05.640 --> 00:38:07.000 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Walang transfer na nangyari. 00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:28.690 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Hindi po siya, hindi ko po masasabi, Your Honor. Because, again, yung validity ng transfer, yung law on contracts, I think, will apply. But the taxes on sa transaction na yun, yun po yung concern ng... BIR, your honor. 00:38:28.870 --> 00:38:38.910 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alright. Pagdating naman sa ownership, in the eyes of the BIR, nasa dating owner pa ba itong kumpanya na ito? 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:53.140 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tinitignan ko may tatlong owner itong kumpanya dahil hindi sila nagbayad ng transfer taxes. Ibig ba sa in the eyes of the BIR, nasa dati pang may-ari itong kumpanyang ito? 00:38:53.870 --> 00:39:01.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ang sabi po dun, pagka hindi nakapagbayad ng taxes, dapat hindi ito i-register, yung hindi i-register yung transfer sa stock transfer books.So kung ganun po, then baka po hindi po... 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:09.970 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Correct. 00:39:09.970 --> 00:39:10.550 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Nasa lumang pangalan pa rin. 00:39:10.570 --> 00:39:10.850 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:39:10.950 --> 00:39:16.550 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tama? Kasi kung hindi ma-transfer sa stock transfer books, nasa lumang pangalan pa rin. 00:39:16.810 --> 00:39:17.510 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:39:17.630 --> 00:39:20.070 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So pag tinignan ni records, nasa lumang owners pa rin. 00:39:20.580 --> 00:39:21.320 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:39:22.470 --> 00:39:49.090 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pupunta naman ako doon sa isang topic na nabuksan na ni Santa Risa, yung remittances. Kasi nakita ko rin na ang dineclared na sales is 208 and then ang remittance is about 700 million. Cale88, ang declared sales niya is 208 pero ang remittance na nakita namin sa AMLC, about 700 million. 00:39:51.050 --> 00:39:58.130 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ano ang posibleng, in your opinion, itong 700, anong posibleng account ito? 00:40:01.150 --> 00:40:06.710 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Paano nagkaroon ng remittance sa 700 pero ang sales niya ay 200? Ano yung mga possibilities? 00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:09.930 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa mga possibilities po, 00:40:09.930 --> 00:40:11.690 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alam 00:40:11.690 --> 00:40:18.710 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: natin may pumasok na 700, alam natin yung sales. Ano yung mga possibilities bakit wala siya dito sa declaration sa BIR? 00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:31.330 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Baka po hindi po siya sales, transaction. So baka ito ay loan or any kinds of donation. Hindi din po natin masabi. Basta... 00:40:31.330 --> 00:40:40.170 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pag wala pa rin sa balance sheet, wala sa asset, wala siya sa loans, wala siya sa sales, pero may pumasok ng 700. 00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:41.450 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa 00:40:41.450 --> 00:40:42.310 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: name po ng company? 00:40:42.590 --> 00:40:45.970 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sa name ng company. Anong possibilities nito? 00:40:48.030 --> 00:40:48.970 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: From your 00:40:48.970 --> 00:40:54.540 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: expert... From your experience and expert opinion sa mga ganitong mga nangyayari. 00:40:56.080 --> 00:41:10.900 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Apologies, Your Honor, hindi ko pumasabi but this should have been declared in the audited financial statements. Dahil sa audited financial statement, nandito yung cash flow statement wherein dapat lahat ng galaw ng cash ng isang company ay nakalagay. 00:41:13.150 --> 00:41:30.880 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Any inflow na na-receive ng company should have been declared in the audited financial statement. As to those na outside or hindi na-declare sa audited financial statement, marami pong possibilities but hindi ko rin pong masasabi, Your Honor. 00:41:31.200 --> 00:41:38.500 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kung ganito yung senaryo, candidate ba itong Cale88 for a letter of authority para tignan ng bureau? 00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:42.030 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: In fact, Your Honor, meron na pong letter of authority. 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:42.980 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So 00:41:42.980 --> 00:41:43.460 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: meron nga 00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:47.760 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: siyang letter of authority. So inimbestigahan na itong company na ito. 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:48.540 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes, Your Honor. 00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:51.880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: And if ever found na hindi din-declare in sales, ano yung mga penalties? 00:41:52.880 --> 00:42:14.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yung under declaration po ng sales, magkakaroon po tayo, magkocompute po tayo dito ng deficiency taxes po. Meron po kasing civil and merong criminal. cases. So sa civil, dito po papasok yung mga deficiency taxes na dapat pong bayaran. At kapag napatunayan na may tax evasion man, then dito po pasok po yung sa criminal case. 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.620 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr. Senator. 00:42:18.140 --> 00:42:21.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Lacson is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.260 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Good afternoon, Atty. Ann. 00:42:27.380 --> 00:42:28.540 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Good afternoon, Your Honor. 00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:50.960 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Don't focus sa minimum corporate income tax. Ito po kasi gusto ko ibangga sa GENCORP dahil mamaya bigyan ko inang figures. Gusto ko ma-reconcile. Ang pag-compute ng MCIT, ito yung 2% of gross income tapos i-deduct yung cost of goods sold from the total sales, hindi ba? 00:42:52.520 --> 00:42:55.720 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Total sales minus cost of goods sold, 00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:56.460 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: gross 00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:57.220 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: income po. 00:42:57.300 --> 00:42:58.240 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Tapos 2%. 00:42:58.240 --> 00:42:58.660 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2 00:42:58.660 --> 00:42:59.120 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: % po yun. 00:42:59.120 --> 00:42:59.580 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yun 00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:00.060 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: yung MCIT. 00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:00.440 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yun 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:02.960 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po yung MCIT or the minimum corporate income 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:19.060 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: tax. I'm just wondering kung ito yung inavail ng GenCorp. Kasi sa 2025, tinignan ko yung taxpayers profile ng GenCorp. Ang authorized capital stock nila, 5 million pesos. Andyan po sa inyong document. 00:43:21.540 --> 00:43:56.220 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pero yung kanilang total sales sa 2025, sa kanilang tax returns, 520,670,643. Ang background lang po, yung GenCorp, Ito po wala po sa AOI ang pangalan ni VP Sara. Pero naka-declare naman sa kanya SALN. Kasi nakalagay doon, formerly Times Square B at saka yung Great Jolly Times. Nakalagay formerly. Pero GenCorp. So, naging issue na rin po. Never mind. 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:25.780 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang kanilang total gross sales sa 2025, yun nga, 520,670,643. Yung taxable net income nila, 5,342,953. Yung tax due, 2,285,418. Pakireconcile lang yung mga numbers, mga figures na ito. Yung kanilang tax credit, 1.5 million. Ang tax paid, 00:44:27.470 --> 00:44:38.110 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 777,093. Tapos yung of course net income after tax. Ito yung 3,057,535. 00:44:40.250 --> 00:44:49.940 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yun bang may 5 million na authorized capital stock tapos merong sales na 520 million. Hindi po ba unusual yun? 00:44:53.130 --> 00:45:16.190 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, yung authorized capital stock po pertains to the number of shares na pwedeng i-issue ng isang corporation. Maximum. That's the maximum, Your Honor. And then ngayon, yung sa sales naman po, ito po yung benta ng isang taxpayer sa isang particular year. So kung mabenta po talaga siya at maganda ang kanyang business, that's 00:45:16.190 --> 00:45:16.630 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: a possibility. 00:45:16.630 --> 00:45:16.950 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Dahil 00:45:16.950 --> 00:45:33.240 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: nasa BIR kayo, yung taxation, kasi... Ay, sorry. Okay. So, gusto ko lang malaman kung nakapit sila ng 2% kasi wala sa datos namin yung cost of goods sold. Baka meron kayo. Ay, 00:45:33.240 --> 00:45:33.640 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Ah yung breakdown, 00:45:34.120 --> 00:45:34.600 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor? 00:45:34.600 --> 00:45:34.980 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yes. 00:45:35.040 --> 00:45:39.300 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Kung tatama yung 2% doon sa computation ng MCIT. 00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.440 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 2 00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:58.220 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: % of total gross income from the total sales minus or i-deduct yung cost of goods sold. Kung meron kayong data, gusto ko lang i-countercheck kung tatama sa 2% for purposes of tax payment. 00:45:59.340 --> 00:45:59.860 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2025. 00:46:04.140 --> 00:46:04.660 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your 00:46:04.660 --> 00:46:10.440 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Honor, can I use my own, the file copy, BIR file copy? 00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:11.720 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yes, thank you. 00:46:14.930 --> 00:46:16.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may, Eternion. 00:46:16.350 --> 00:46:16.790 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Thank you, Pa. 00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:25.600 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Habang naghanap kayo, maski mag-declare ng loss, maski losing yung kumpanya, Magbabayad pa rin ng 2%, di po ba? 00:46:26.560 --> 00:46:27.120 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:46:27.120 --> 00:46:27.640 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Maski lost. 00:46:27.640 --> 00:46:29.340 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Whichever is higher po kasi. 00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:29.740 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yes, okay. 00:46:51.310 --> 00:46:53.450 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your Honor, sorry po, 2% ng? 00:46:54.660 --> 00:46:59.080 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Hindi, kasi ang binayaran niya, 777,000. 00:46:59.580 --> 00:47:00.140 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Opo. 00:47:00.140 --> 00:47:00.560 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pero 00:47:00.560 --> 00:47:21.500 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: ang total sales, 520 million. So hindi ko po ma-reconcile. So sa nilaki-laki na ng kanilang sales, 520 million, ang nabayaran lamang is 777,000. So, gusto ko makita yung competition ng 2% kung i-deduct yung cost of goods sold from the total sales. 00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:46.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But let the witness answer. 00:47:47.090 --> 00:47:52.550 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sorry, Your Honor. Yung reason po kasi sobrang labo po ng copy. Hindi ko po mabasa. Pero 00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:56.900 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: sobrang labo rin po ng kwenta eh. Kaya ako nagtatanong eh. 00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:57.900 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 2025. 00:48:00.340 --> 00:48:00.940 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: This 00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:01.500 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: is 2024. 00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:09.520 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Between 777,000 and 520,000,000 mukhang medyo ano, mahirap i-reconciled. 00:48:22.460 --> 00:48:27.280 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po dito kasi the cost of sales is around 406 million. 00:48:28.810 --> 00:48:30.630 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sobrang labo po talaga nung document. 00:48:30.630 --> 00:48:31.270 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Sa akin po 00:48:31.270 --> 00:48:31.430 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: ang 00:48:31.430 --> 00:48:35.230 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: total sales ng 520 million. And 00:48:35.230 --> 00:48:46.280 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: the cost of sales space around 400 million plus. So kaya po yung kanilang gross income is around 114. 00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:48.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Net income. 00:48:51.130 --> 00:48:54.770 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: And then may itemized deduction po sila na 108. Million. 00:48:55.090 --> 00:48:58.910 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Gusto ko lang po malaman kung tumama doon sa 2% na MCIT. 00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:25.920 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yung MCIT po nila is kapag pa 2% is 2 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.560 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: .28. 00:49:29.500 --> 00:49:35.880 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Dapat. Dapat po ang 2%. So malayo po sa 777,000. 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.540 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: But the MCIT po will 00:50:02.330 --> 00:50:02.890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll 00:50:02.890 --> 00:50:05.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: register you for round 2, Sen. Judge Lacson. 00:50:07.410 --> 00:50:08.970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sen. Judge Hontiveros. 00:50:11.300 --> 00:50:14.280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For round two, you may proceed when you're ready ma'am. 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:15.770 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer. 00:50:15.770 --> 00:50:17.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thereafter, Senator Judge Pangilinan. 00:50:18.520 --> 00:50:52.060 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Attorney Anne, dalawang huling tanong na lamang po. Una, kanina sinabi niyo na kung may mga lihitimong transaksyon sa likod ng mga international remittances na yun, kailangan i-report pa rin ang sales at kailangan pagbayaran ng tax yung mga sales na ganun. So, posible po ba na kasama itong mga malalaking international remittances na ito sa titignan ng bureau dun sa inyong RATE or Run After Tax Evaders program? 00:50:52.060 --> 00:50:54.020 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po, Your Honor. 00:50:54.020 --> 00:50:54.640 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Posible po? 00:50:54.640 --> 00:50:55.060 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po. 00:50:55.060 --> 00:51:22.390 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. And then, nabanggit niyo rin po, kanikanina pa. Or kahapon ba na walang e-car dun sa transfer of shares ni Atty. Manases Carpio sa Cale88 papuntang Pikimong, Pikimong. Ibig po bang sabihin na sa mata ng BIR ay ang may-ari pa rin ng Cale88 ay si Atty. Carpio? 00:51:26.120 --> 00:51:27.060 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pwede po. Yes. 00:51:27.060 --> 00:51:28.000 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Pwede. 00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:50.190 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. Kasi base rin po sa dating na ipresentang 2025 SALN ni VP Duterte, sila rin po mismo ang nagdeklara ng Cale88 bilang business interest pa rin po sa taong iyon. Salamat pong muli, Atty. Ann. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. 00:52:07.450 --> 00:52:10.930 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you. Again, yung GENCORP. 00:52:12.600 --> 00:52:20.800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: GENCORP audited financial statements from 2023 and 2024. 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:25.120 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Are you ready, ma'am? 00:52:25.340 --> 00:52:26.100 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes, po. 00:52:26.180 --> 00:52:27.140 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Attorney Anne. 00:52:27.140 --> 00:52:27.760 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes, 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:28.200 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po, Your Honor. 00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:28.440 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. 00:52:30.570 --> 00:52:42.200 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: First, yung... Audited financial statement, pag sinabing cash December 31, ano ibig sabihin nun? Yun yung cash sa on-hand and sa bank po? 00:52:42.460 --> 00:52:43.100 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:51.680 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So the company is required to declare cash in bank in its audited financial statement. 00:52:51.680 --> 00:52:52.840 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po. 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:57.620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At pag sinabi nila ganun ang halaga at audited yan, ibig sabihin totoo yan. 00:52:59.660 --> 00:53:02.880 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Verify ng independent certified public account. 00:53:03.080 --> 00:53:04.820 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: That it is true and correct. Diba? 00:53:04.820 --> 00:53:05.120 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama. 00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:22.310 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. So ano ang AFS ng GENCO nung 2023? Gaya ng nabanggit kanina, GENCO was in the SALN of the Vice President. 2023. 00:53:23.090 --> 00:53:23.890 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Cash. 00:53:25.900 --> 00:53:35.360 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: As of December 31, 2023, may nakadeclare po sa audited financial statements na 924,695 pesos po. 00:53:35.580 --> 00:53:44.540 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. At ano naman? 924,960. Okay. Doon sa banko, can we flash it? 00:53:46.680 --> 00:53:56.080 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Doon sa bank documents na ating nalikom, yung banko ng GENCO would be Metro Bank and Security Bank. So for 2023, 00:53:58.520 --> 00:54:27.700 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: ang kanyang two banks, nine accounts, 46,191,876. So kung binanggit niya ay 924,000 lang sa audited financial statement which they submitted to you, Jenco, they were not being truthful. If the bank records show, that the ending balance in 2023 is 46 million. Tama po? 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:30.720 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Mukhang, it appears to be so, Your Honor. 00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:44.400 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Ang laki nung pagkakaiba. 45 million plus difference ang sinasabi ng bangko at sinasabi nila sa financial statement na na-audited. In 2024, ano ang sinabi ng GENCO? 00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:53.220 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: As of December 31, 2024, may cash po na 683,838. 00:54:53.220 --> 00:54:54.120 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. 00:54:54.180 --> 00:55:35.120 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Pero dito sa bank records ng dalawang banko ng Security Bank and Metro Bank na sinumiti sa atin, ang total ng dalawang banko na may nine accounts cash in bank is 19,105,307. So again, 683,000 ang dineklara sa audited financial statement. Pero yung bank records mismo ang nagsasabing 19 million ang cash on hand. So again, there, that should be, well, you know, kung ganyang kalaki ang gap sa anumang kumpanya na alaman ninyo sa BIR, that should be a cause for concern, hindi ba? 00:55:35.980 --> 00:55:37.040 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Yes po, Your Honor. 00:55:37.280 --> 00:56:14.470 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. And finally, nabanggit yung PICIMON and yung Cale88 at nagka-debate at diskusyon tungkol sa stock and transfer, no? Ang tanong dun is, since Pikimon, based on the general information sheet ng Pikimon, I'll just wrap up, 95% of Cale88 is owned by Pikimon. Okay? Now, at yung anong nakasalagay dun sa GIS? 00:56:17.690 --> 00:57:01.140 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: na capital stock, authorized, yes. Napakaliit, no? Because you're a accountant and you're also a, just to finalize that, mukhang maliit yung capital, authorized capital stock no, Pikimon, but it was able to purchase 95% of Cali, Cali88. So that's another cause of, for concern that perhaps the, well. We will raise the matter in camera as to whether or not we should bring in the GIS and other related documents of Pikimong-Pikimong Philippine Corporation. There 00:57:01.140 --> 00:57:03.560 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: you 00:57:04.140 --> 00:57:20.290 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: go. The paid up capital of Pikimong is six, for the record, as of year 2024, 59,836 ang total assets. Ang paid up capital is 62,500. 00:57:22.950 --> 00:57:48.080 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So that begs the question, how could they purchase 95% of Cale88 given their GIS information? Well, again, I leave that to the BIR. as a matter of concern, and of course to our senator judges. Thank you, Attorney Anne. 00:57:48.260 --> 00:57:49.580 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Thank you din po. Well noted po. 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:51.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Villanueva. 00:57:57.700 --> 00:59:09.290 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. I have here with me, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President, a copy of the GIS of Cale88 Foods Corporation, 2023-2024. Wala pong empleyado. Wala akong nakalagay. Dito po sa 2025, nakalagay po dalawa. So just for your information na, Mr. President, and yung tinatanong po natin kanina, ito po yun, ito yung basihan. Pwede ho bang i-follow up ko, ma'am, yung tinatanong ko kanina kung sakaling may nagpopondo po nito, sino po yung nagbibigay kung meron na po kayong na... Kuhang document that states sino yung sumasagot dahil losing po ito eh. Supposed to be, no? Dahil yung ni-report po ay napakalaki nung sales. Kunyari 2024, 150 million pero 6 million yung reported loss in 2024. Kung meron lang po, ma'am, kanina po sabi nyo in your recollection meron pero you don't have anything. 00:59:13.240 --> 00:59:33.190 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Para po dito sa kanila, based sa audited financial statement po, sa note 14, these financial statements are being prepared on an ongoing concern basis because the management have undertaken to provide continuing financial support so that the company is able to pay its debt as and when they fall due. 00:59:34.910 --> 00:59:40.780 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: So yun po yung narecall ko pa nila. The management or the owners, 00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:41.640 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: yes po. 00:59:41.640 --> 00:59:42.800 Sen. Joel Villanueva: The owners. Yeah. Baka 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:43.020 Sen. Joel Villanueva: lang po 00:59:43.020 --> 00:59:50.700 Sen. Joel Villanueva: makalimutan ko ma'am, yung alpha list po ninyo, baka pwedeng makita namin para mabangga po dito sa GIS. Yes, 00:59:50.700 --> 00:59:50.820 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Your 00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:50.960 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Honor. 00:59:50.980 --> 00:59:52.700 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: We will submit to this honorable court. 00:59:52.980 --> 01:00:00.040 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Last na lang po, dito po sa 2025, tinitignan ko po itong inyong isinubay. 01:00:04.020 --> 01:00:35.860 Sen. Joel Villanueva: There's this 11.20 million net taxable business income sa pangalan po ni Atty. Carpio sa Annex A. May papakita po ba ng BIR yung breakdown nito, ma'am, mula po dun sa 888 Bistro, Law Practice at iba pang pinagkukunan upang matyak lang po na Wala po tayong kitang naiwan at wala din po tayong salapi na nabilang ng dalawang beses. 01:00:36.390 --> 01:00:38.610 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Sa 2025 po, your honor? 01:00:38.610 --> 01:00:39.290 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Opo, opo. 01:00:41.060 --> 01:00:46.060 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yan dyan po yung 11.20 million na net taxable business income. 01:00:53.900 --> 01:01:04.920 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Again, just to repeat the question, kung may nakikita po kayo dyan na breakdown mula dun sa taxable business income from 888 Bistro, law practice? 01:01:06.060 --> 01:01:19.140 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po dito sa audited financial statement na naka-attach po sa annual income tax return for 2025, meron po dito na breakdown from one from law firm and one from restaurant po. 01:01:20.150 --> 01:01:31.150 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Okay po. Then dun sa Annex G, tignan po natin. Yung Annex G, meron pong 5.24 million na net income dun po sa binabanggit nyo yung sa Carpio Lawyers. 01:01:32.670 --> 01:01:53.060 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ang tanong ko lang po kung General Professional Partnership ito, magkano po yung distributive share ni Atty. Carpio at saan ito makikita sa kanyang personal return? Kasi hindi naman po lahat yung sa buong law firm sa kanya po yun, hindi po ba? 01:01:54.270 --> 01:01:59.520 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Based po sa AFS po ng Carpio Lawyers, 01:02:01.690 --> 01:02:03.550 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: based 01:02:09.830 --> 01:02:18.780 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: po sa 2025 wala pong distribution kasi nakalagay po dito partners allocation of net income but wala pong nakalagay na distribution 01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.240 Sen. Joel Villanueva: but am I correct to 01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:31.760 Sen. Joel Villanueva: assume na dapat yan po yung distributive share niya not necessarily the entire kasi merong general professional I mean general professional partnership eh hindi po ba? 01:02:33.340 --> 01:02:38.940 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Tama po, may general professional partnership at may share po siya doon. 01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:39.660 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pag 01:02:39.660 --> 01:02:46.700 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: nag-distribute po yung general professional partnership, then yung distributed share po na yun should be reflected in the annual. 01:02:47.060 --> 01:02:58.040 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yun ang personal return niya. So, papaano po isinama sa personal return ni Atty. Carpio ang receipts at expenses ng 888 Bistro? 01:03:00.570 --> 01:03:04.130 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: 888 Bistro po is registered as a restaurant po. 01:03:04.520 --> 01:03:13.800 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ba't may reconciliation po ba na nag-uugnay dun sa business books with holding records at individual return, ma'am? 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:35.330 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Si Carpio Lawyers po kasi sa General Professional Partnership. Si Atty. Manases R. Carpio po is a separate registered taxpayer and meron po siyang dalawang source of income which is yung law firm and the restaurant. And may 01:03:35.330 --> 01:03:39.800 Sen. Joel Villanueva: reconciliation po na naguugnay dun po sa business books nila. 01:03:40.080 --> 01:03:50.040 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Wala pong nakalagay po dito na reference. Basta lang po may nakalagay na nakadeclare po na law firm and restaurant. As to the source, wala pong nakalagay. 01:03:50.040 --> 01:04:12.620 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kaya po tinatanong yun kasi gusto natin sundan yung money trail, yung salapay hanggang dun sa actual na taxpayer kasi mahalaga po itong makita. Yung posibleng omitted income at maikonekta ng may ebidensya ang corporate transactions dun po sa respondent. Maraming salamat po ma'am at thank you. Thank you po. Senator 01:04:12.620 --> 01:04:14.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge Lacson, to 01:04:16.620 --> 01:04:16.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: avail of 01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:18.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: second round, you may proceed, sir. 01:04:18.020 --> 01:05:02.150 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you, Mr. President. Second case study, yung Cale88. Ito rin eh, yung authorized capital, stock, 2 million. Pero yung kanilang aggregate total sales, 208 million from 2022 hanggang 2025. Pero negative taxable net income, nag-negative 8 million sila in 4 years. So again, notably, sa 2024 total sales, nasa 150.7 million and yet, nag-declare po sila ng negative 6.128 million in taxable net income. Ang tanong ko po, ano ba yung implication ng negative taxable net income? Ano mga possible reasons dito? 01:05:03.730 --> 01:05:09.650 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pag may negative taxable income, ibig sabihin mas mataas po yung expenses na kinlain. 01:05:09.710 --> 01:05:20.890 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Alam ko po, pero kinocompare ko sa kanilang total sales at saka yun, parang hindi rin magtugma. Ano po yung implication as far as BIR? 01:05:24.670 --> 01:05:27.570 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Makukonsider nyo bang red flag pag gaganito? 01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:39.340 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Pwede rin po, during audit, iti-check po kung bakit po siya losses kung talaga bang baka naman po kasi may over-declaration expenses or under-declaration ng sales. 01:05:39.580 --> 01:05:42.020 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Iti-check pa po yun, Your Honor, if may ganun po. 01:05:42.120 --> 01:06:02.900 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Tatapusin ko lang po kasi may kinukwento sa akin si Senator Lapid. Kasi kahapon daw po, yung prosecution, pag tuwing magbabanggit ng SALN, nag-o-object yung defense. Kanina naman, pag nagbabagit ng SALN yung defense, nag-object naman yung prosecution. Ganyan ba raw kagugulo talaga mga abogado? 01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:18.860 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Kasi galing daw po siyang UK, doon po hindi required yung mga lawyers. Pwede magrepresentasarili nila yung mga, yung common na tao. So doon na lang po siya titira sa London. Marami salamat po. 01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:31.490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No other senator judges registered to make interjections. Sabi ko sa inyo, Atty. Ann, konti na lang, nakaraos din. 01:06:33.110 --> 01:06:55.330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Maraming salamat, Atty. Ann, sa inyo po ang kooperasyon, pagsagot sa mga katanungan at pagtulong sa impeachment court na ito. Asahan po namin yung mga submission na hiningin ng Sen. Judges, may ipadala na lamang po sa pamamagitan ng Clerk of Court para ipadala po namin sa Sen. Judges at saka sa magkabilang partido para po sa kanilang kaalaman, base sa kahilingan ng Sen. Judge. 01:06:55.870 --> 01:06:57.230 Atty. Anne Loraine Garcia-Marquez: Okay po, Your Honor. Thank you po. 01:06:59.030 --> 01:06:59.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can 01:06:59.550 --> 01:07:01.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I excuse the witness, Atty. Sheila? 01:07:01.450 --> 01:07:01.990 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. 01:07:02.330 --> 01:07:06.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You are excused, Atty. Anne. Salamat po. 01:07:16.010 --> 01:07:17.950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, what is the pleasure of Atty. Sheila? 01:07:20.560 --> 01:07:36.350 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, good afternoon, Your Honor. Good afternoon, Your Honors. Just some preliminary matters. If the court will allow me, may I just ask that before the next intended witness be situated in this courtroom, 01:07:37.870 --> 01:07:55.310 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May I be allowed to first tackle some preliminary matters in relation to this next witness, Your Honor, so that he won't be able to hear my manifestations, which could possibly cross into some potential cross-examination questions, Your Honor. Thank you. 01:07:55.590 --> 01:08:03.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before I allow you to continue, Attorney Sheila, who will be the handling lawyer for the... 01:08:05.950 --> 01:08:12.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Who will be the handling lawyer for this witness? Honorable Ridon? I see you raising your hand and the Honorable Diokno as well. 01:08:13.140 --> 01:08:19.800 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: It is Congressman Diokno who will present. But before anything, Atty. Matip will make a manifestation. 01:08:21.170 --> 01:08:22.970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is regarding what, Atty. Aaron? 01:08:23.130 --> 01:09:22.270 Atty. Erwin G. Matib: Regarding the marking of exhibits for the BIR, Your Honor. We request that the... Tax summaries attached to the October 6th letter 2026, addressed to Honorable Jervil Luistro, be marked as exhibit P-Roman numeral 2-3-22-BIR and series. So this includes all the annexes, annexed summaries. And then for the certification regarding the e-car, this will be The letter dated October 6 of 2026 addressed to the Honorable Francis Escudero, which contains annexes. We request that this be marked as Exhibit P-R2-3-23-BIRN series, Your Honor, to include the attachments. Thank you. 01:09:22.390 --> 01:09:27.190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Clerk of Court is so directed to mark the aforementioned exhibits at the appropriate time. It's ordered. 01:09:27.590 --> 01:09:28.370 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor. 01:09:30.400 --> 01:09:33.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's wait until... Yes, 01:09:33.540 --> 01:09:36.960 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: before Atty. Sheila, Congressman Diokno, we are yielding to him. 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:39.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was about to recognize him. 01:09:39.500 --> 01:09:40.380 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: But 01:09:40.380 --> 01:09:40.540 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: this 01:09:40.540 --> 01:09:41.020 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: is in relation 01:09:41.020 --> 01:09:44.920 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: also, Your Honor, to the request for marking as... 01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:46.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is about the... 01:09:46.300 --> 01:09:46.900 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. 01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:47.800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please, Atty. Sheila. 01:09:48.020 --> 01:09:49.060 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: On the requested 01:09:49.060 --> 01:09:49.480 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: marking. 01:09:49.720 --> 01:10:12.620 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We also will just put on record the... We will mark the documents requested as registered in the TSN as D-II-190-LOA and D-II-191, Your Honor. The proper information on these documents will just be manifested during the marking, Your Honor. Yes, 01:10:12.920 --> 01:10:14.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at the appropriate time. So ordered. 01:10:20.290 --> 01:10:22.370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Diokno, are you settled down? 01:10:23.050 --> 01:10:24.310 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. Good afternoon. 01:10:25.010 --> 01:10:32.430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Good afternoon. To listen to the manifestation prior to the calling of the witness by Attorney Sheila. Attorney Sheila, you may proceed with the manifestation, ma'am. 01:10:32.490 --> 01:10:43.970 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon again, Your Honors. Good afternoon to the Honorable Congressman Diokno. The witness is... May I inquire if the witness is around, Your Honor? In the 01:10:43.970 --> 01:10:45.010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: holding room, I believe. 01:10:45.010 --> 01:10:45.470 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank 01:10:45.470 --> 01:10:50.890 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: you, Your Honor. We understand that after the BIR witness... 01:10:51.450 --> 01:10:51.590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He 01:10:51.590 --> 01:10:51.770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was 01:10:51.770 --> 01:10:52.090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: earlier 01:10:52.090 --> 01:10:56.430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at the hall but the chair instructed him to be brought back to the holding room. 01:10:56.900 --> 01:13:41.600 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We understand that, Your Honor. Thank you. We understand that the next intended witness would be a supposed financial forensic analyst by the name of Mr. Attorney Nathaniel Alexander B. Cabrera, CPA, Your Honor. And this was contained in the manifestation that we just received over the weekend, specifically on Saturday, dated October 3, 2026, at around past 8pm, Your Honor. And along with the manifestation, we also received what appears to be a supposed forensic report Vice President Sarah Duterte and Spouses Financial, Corporate Property and Related Records. This was marked as Annex A of the manifestation dated October 3, 2026. However, Your Honor, it would seem that from the introduction in Annex A, it says here, and I will quote, this is the second paragraph on page 1 of Annex A of that manifestation. The work performed involved analyzing documents that were made available to the undersigned pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. And I will stop there. Now, I recall yesterday in the exchange between the prosecution and the defense that this court explicitly said that it has not issued any subpoena to this particular witness and neither has it issued any subpoena duces tecum or any authority for this witness to be handed over certain documents or specific documents, especially documents containing confidential data of the respondent and the entities mentioned in this report as well as the respondent's spouse. And so I am at a loss why this report now contains a statement that the work that he purportedly performed involved on his part analyzing some documents that were made available to him pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. May I inquire from the Honorable Court if this statement is factually true. 01:13:43.870 --> 01:14:32.410 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Specifically, that part where this witness appears to claim that there were documents made available to him pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court, which includes, now I will now read the rest of this paragraph, such as the VP SALN for the years 2022. 2025 reports from AMLC, the income tax returns filed by the VP and her spouse, the bank statements and bank records, investments they made, the financial statements of corporations they have an interest, and documents filed by the corporations with the SEC. And there's a certain collatilia. 01:14:34.460 --> 01:15:04.710 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: at the last sentence. Accordingly, this report did not use documents in the possession of the respondent and her spouse which naturally would be an obvious situation because definitely the respondent did not, does not, and will never consent to any information sharing of any of her confidential data with this stranger. 01:15:06.890 --> 01:15:30.840 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: So, now, since this court, as of yesterday, has stated for the record that it has not yet issued any subpoena to this witness, then what authority does this witness have to hold or to be handed over confidential data that even this court had ordered several times to be redacted, Your Honor? 01:15:32.850 --> 01:15:35.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Diokno, can you comment? 01:15:35.290 --> 01:17:03.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. In the first place, I would like to correct the good defense counsel. It's not a supposed forensic report. It is a forensic report. The person is not a stranger. His name is attorney Alexander B. Cabrera. A subpoena, Your Honor, for the witness to testify is simply an order for the witness to appear before this honorable court. That's why I don't know where the argument is coming from because As we will show when we present this witness, he has been properly engaged by the prosecution and given the authority to examine those documents. Now, the defense has repeatedly been saying that these matters are confidential. I would like to correct again the defense because these matters have been allowed by the honorable court. Matagal ko na pong sinasabi na hindi confidential ang katotohanan. At alam naman po natin na pinayagan ni presiding officer yung BIR records, pinayagan ni presiding officer ang anti-money laundering records, pinayagan ni presiding officer ang mga bank records, insurance company records. Ano po ang pinagsasabi nilang confidential? So I hope that we will be allowed to call the witness, put him on the stand, and they may, if you want, cross-examine him. 01:17:04.100 --> 01:17:59.890 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May I be allowed to respond, Your Honor? I think it's important for the defense to be given the opportunity to respond to this reply from the Honorable Congressman Diokno. Just for the record and first of all, the forensic report, the alleged or the supposed forensic report and the defense will continue to use that term in respect of this supposed document entitled forensic report. The prosecution cannot just claim that this is indeed a forensic report given that there is no doubt that this witness has yet to undergo any examination or that this witness or the documents that he intends to testify on and identify before this court have yet to be admitted by this honorable court. Now as to the 01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:57.390 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: stranger your honor that was in relation of course that this witness is a stranger to the respondent your honor. I did in fact refer to attorney Cabrera by his name if the gentleman would remember at the start of my manifestation but again I find the rest of the reply and the response of the honorable congressman unresponsive to be frank your honor because my only query is that has there been or did the court issue, any subpoena to this witness? Second, Your Honor, upon whose authority did this witness able to take possession of, examine documents that are confidential by nature and protected by law? 01:18:57.590 --> 01:18:57.790 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Now, 01:18:57.790 --> 01:18:58.670 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: as to the 01:19:01.870 --> 01:19:19.430 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: tagline that ang katotohanan ay hindi confidential. I understand that that's the position that has been taken over and over and over and over again by the prosecution. However, this is a trial. We do not try here rhetoric. We try here facts, Your Honor. 01:19:24.040 --> 01:20:18.790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: verbal calisthenics between both councils and simply address the concern of Attorney Sheila. My reading of the second paragraph that Attorney Sheila quoted, if I may quote, the work performed involved analyzing documents that were made available to the undersigned pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the Senate Impeachment Court. does not mean that we issued subpoenas for documents to be given to him. It was pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the court for the documents to be produced before the impeachment court and furnished the parties. So to answer, Atty. Sheila, the lead counsel for the respondent, no special subpoena was issued for documents to be produced and furnished, Atty. Cabrera. And as regards her other concerns, 01:20:20.430 --> 01:20:48.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Only Attorney Cabrera would be able to answer them through the direct how, if at all, and I expect actually, the Honorable Diokno to establish the chain of custody of the documents, if any, that Attorney Cabrera used from the documents subpoenaed by the court and furnished the parties under certain conditions. That would be the proper subject matter of direct and I don't think Attorney Honorable Diokno should respond in behalf of 01:20:50.170 --> 01:20:52.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Alexander Cabrera. 01:20:52.610 --> 01:21:55.800 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you for that clarity, Your Honor. In fact, Your Honor, that was also one of the interpretations that we contemplated earlier as to this portion of the second paragraph of Annex A of that manifestation, Your Honor. However, we still ask this question, Your Honor, because now it is confirmed by this court that no subpoena was ever issued to this particular witness. So we will just put that on record that the defense and the respondent now take note of that confirmation that there was no such subpoena issued to this respondent. Second, Your Honor, we also ask, the reason why we ask is that we just want to have a formal confirmation from the prosecution that they were the ones who actually indeed provided this witness with all this confidential data so that it also is entered into the records, Your Honor. 01:21:56.460 --> 01:22:01.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would you like to respond now or at the appropriate time during your direct, Honorable Diokno? 01:22:01.400 --> 01:22:02.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I will 01:22:02.020 --> 01:22:04.280 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: respond now and also later if Your Honor is pleased. 01:22:04.280 --> 01:22:05.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so. 01:22:05.140 --> 01:23:02.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm sure Attorney Sheila and the other members of both the prosecution and the defense are aware that when one side in a court case engages an expert, naturally, Your Honor, they must provide that expert with the information that is necessary for that expert to come up with findings. And it is no different in this case than it is in ordinary criminal or civil cases. We engaged an expert. We provided that expert with documents that we were able to gather through subpoenas that were issued by this honorable court. As to the matter of being allegedly confidential, I believe this has already been repeatedly ruled upon by the court that the BEA records, AMLA, etc. are available for inspection by the members of the court and by the parties. That's all, Your Honor. 01:23:03.970 --> 01:23:06.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before attorney Sheila proceeds, 01:23:06.290 --> 01:23:21.250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the third paragraph of the manifestation of the panel of prosecutors states that no subpoena is necessary as the prosecution undertakes to invite and secure attorney Cabrera's appearance at the appropriate hearing. 01:23:21.250 --> 01:23:22.350 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, 01:23:22.350 --> 01:23:30.410 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor. That's precisely the reason why we also wanted to ask this honorable court for that. 01:23:31.990 --> 01:24:48.650 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: clarification, Your Honor. Now, in response to the Honorable Diokno, yes, we are aware that one has to provide or that the party has to provide its witnesses with relevant documents, Your Honor. However, we're not just dealing here with ordinary documents. Again, I hope the prosecution, I'm sure the prosecution understands that since we have a recorded objection, a continuing objection, To the disclosure of all this data, then the prosecution must also expect that we will raise this at every opportune time to maintain that objection and to be consistent with that position, even as we also understand that their position is totally disparate from our position, Your Honor. But again, for the record, I will just read a portion of the memorandum from the Acting Executive Secretary. To the Commissioner of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, Charlito Martin R. Mendoza, Your Honor. Through Acting Secretary Frederick Digo of the Department of Finance, this is dated July 29, 2026 in response to the subpoena issued by this Court. Just for the record, so that The public will also understand where the respondent and the defense are coming from. 01:24:48.870 --> 01:24:49.430 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: It says 01:24:49.430 --> 01:25:39.350 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: here that pursuant to the subpoena duces tecum dated July 21, 2026, issued by the Senate Impeachment Court in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte, case number 004-2026 and section 71. of the national internal revenue code of 1997 as amended you are hereby authorized to allow the inspection of and furnish the senate impeachment court with one original or certified true copy accompanied by electronic copies of the following records uh quote that were enumerated in this memorandum now it's clear to us to the defense and the respondent that the authority given is only for 01:25:40.860 --> 01:26:00.890 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: The inspection of and the submission of the enumerated documents in this memorandum to the Senate Impeachment Court and not to any third party, Your Honor. I know that we will not meet on this matter with the prosecution but just for the record, Your Honor. Thank you. 01:26:09.640 --> 01:27:03.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Whether or not you will pursue or persist with presenting a witness, the defense also intended in the pretrial order to present its own forensic expert. And the chair will be applying the same ruling to the forensic experts to be presented by the respondent given that lawyers in general are allowed to seek the assistance of either lawyers, investigators, or non-lawyers, furnished evidence that they have and if at all subject to that limited access, be furnished copies of whatever piece of evidence they legally obtain in accordance with the ruling of the court. Again, this ruling will apply also to the forensic experts that the respondent may present should they decide to do so at the time they present their evidence in chief. Can you proceed to call the witness, Atty. Sheila? 01:27:03.540 --> 01:27:07.120 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That is correct, Your Honor. I now turn over the examination. 01:27:07.120 --> 01:27:07.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Who will handle it? 01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:10.880 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: It's going to be Atty. Kristine Ferrer, Your Honor. Thank you. 01:27:13.070 --> 01:27:17.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was kinda expecting that actually because she's been gone for a while. 01:27:17.910 --> 01:27:22.020 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. We will just arrange her apple box. 01:27:22.040 --> 01:27:26.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly assist Atty. Christine with the apple box. 01:27:29.260 --> 01:27:33.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Secretary, the OSHA is kindly directed to do so. 01:27:35.300 --> 01:27:36.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: While that is being done, Your Honor. 01:27:36.920 --> 01:27:41.360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can we call the witness, Attorney Alexander Cabrera? Can you situate him to the witness stand? 01:27:45.160 --> 01:27:46.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is so directed. 01:27:52.750 --> 01:27:53.970 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Same appearance, Your Honor. 01:28:10.210 --> 01:28:13.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly situate Attorney Alexander Cabrera to the witness stand. 01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:22.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to Attorney Cabrera. 01:28:23.160 --> 01:28:38.510 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Sir, kindly raise your right hand, please. You, Alexander B. Cabrera, do swear. that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God. 01:28:40.260 --> 01:28:43.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly answer through the microphone, Attorney Cabrera. 01:28:45.660 --> 01:28:51.200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly answer in the affirmative through the microphone, Attorney Cabrera, with respect to the oath, for the record. 01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:52.940 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I do. 01:28:52.940 --> 01:28:54.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, sir. 01:28:55.740 --> 01:29:01.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: How do we refer to you, Alex, or what would be your—how are you usually called? 01:29:02.900 --> 01:29:03.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Alex, sir. 01:29:04.200 --> 01:29:16.160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Alex, naunawahan po ba niyo inyong pinanumpaan kaugnay sa pagbibigay niyo ng inyong testimonya ngayong araw na ito at malamang sa darating pang lunes muli. Naunawahan niyo po ba yan? 01:29:16.660 --> 01:29:19.040 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Naunawaan ko po, Mr. President. Salamat 01:29:19.040 --> 01:29:23.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po. Salamat din. Kindly make your offer, Attorney, the Honorable Shell. 01:29:23.700 --> 01:29:59.950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, Before the counsel will make his offer, we would like to ask this court to implement the same policy, Your Honor, with regard to the flashing of documents or displaying of documents, particularly on the tax returns, Your Honor, the SALN, the bank... documents, Your Honor, and the AMLC documents, Your Honor, that all of these documents, while being provided to the members of this honorable court, these documents should not be flashed on screen by... 01:30:06.580 --> 01:30:08.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The chair 01:30:08.180 --> 01:30:21.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: already gave instructions that if relevant BIR documents will be flashed, I believe you will highlight certain entries only, Honorable Diokno, correct? 01:30:22.180 --> 01:30:24.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor, if we will show those 01:30:24.200 --> 01:30:31.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: documents. To blur the rest and simply... Show in legible form the highlighted portion. 01:30:32.200 --> 01:30:33.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. 01:30:33.840 --> 01:31:00.150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In accordance with the ruling of the Chair in regard to that matter. However, insofar as tables, summaries, or other documents that Atty. Cabrera made himself, these may be flashed on the screen as these are not part of the submissions covered. by any of the confidentiality laws or rules prevailing. 01:31:00.490 --> 01:31:01.310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 01:31:01.530 --> 01:31:01.970 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: that 01:31:01.970 --> 01:31:08.750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: would also include bank statements as well as AMLC reports, Your Honor. 01:31:09.730 --> 01:31:14.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Actual AMLC reports, yes, but not the summaries and tallies based on them. 01:31:17.070 --> 01:31:19.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is that clear, Honorable Diokno? 01:31:20.110 --> 01:31:35.690 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor, please, perhaps we can cross that bridge when we get there. Before I show any slides that may Be objected to, I will ask permission of the Honorable Court. And perhaps at that time, the proper objection can be made and we can discuss it then. 01:31:35.910 --> 01:32:00.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, and subject to that guideline, as practiced before, Honorable Diokno, kindly ask the assistance of your fellow co-counsels or assistants to kindly prepare the hard copy of your planned showing. so that it can be with facility distributed to the senator, judges, and opposing party for their ready reference. 01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:02.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, we will do that. Similar to 01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:03.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: what was done by Attorney Erwin. 01:32:03.900 --> 01:32:04.840 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. 01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:08.720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But these are still preliminaries. So, I'm 01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:10.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kind to make your offer, Honorable Diokno. 01:32:11.020 --> 01:32:12.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honors. 01:32:14.060 --> 01:36:02.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ang aming testigo po ay certified public accountant or CPA at abogado. Nasanay-nasanay sa pag-conduct ng financial audits, reviews at investigations. Inaalok po namin ang kanyang testimonya bilang expert at para patunayan ang mga sumusunod. Una po, na-qualified siya to follow the money and reconcile the financial records. The witness possesses the education, professional qualifications, specialized training, experience and technical expertise necessary to examine financial records, trace transactions, reconcile income and assets, analyze financial relationships, and identify material discrepancies among financial documents. Sa madaling salita, your honors, expertise po niya ang sundan ang pera. Number two, he examined the respondent statements of assets, liabilities, and net worth or SALNs, income tax returns, and other tax records, bank records, anti-money laundering reports, corporate documents, audited financial statements, and other subpoenaed official or publicly available records. Three, he used recognized financial and accounting methods to test whether these records reconcile. The witness applies recognized methods of financial analysis, reconciliation, transaction tracing, and accounting analysis to compare the respondents' documented income and sources of funds against their assets, financial transactions, investments, and business interests. Fourth, based on the foregoing, the witness arrived at the following conclusions. One, Vice President Sara Duterte-SALN for the years 2022. 2023, 2024, and 2025 were untruthful with a substantial amount of assets belonging to the respondent and spouse found to be unreported. Second, Vice President Sara Duterte, during her vice presidency, continued to participate in various businesses. Third, her unexplained wealth, based only on the limited documents examined, excluding documents in the possession of Vice President Sara and spouse, amount to 818.87 million pesos. Fourth, the above-mentioned infringements which happened in 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 established a pattern of constitutional violations year on year. And fifth, apart from the Constitution, other laws were violated or may have been violated such as the National Internal Revenue Code, Republic Act 1379, Republic Act 6713, Republic Act 3019, Republic Act 12009, Securities and Regulations Code Rules, and Commission Audit Rules. We will establish, Your Honor, ng aming testigo ay mapagkakatiwalaan dahil siya ay may integridad. Hindi po siya yung tipong expert na pinulot lang kung saan saan. His credentials and trustworthiness are, in our view, impeccable. Ito po ang magiging ambag ng expert witness na ito. The other witnesses in this article presented the underlying records. SALN, corporate records from the SEC, records for firearms from the Philippine National Police, records of the Anti-Money Laundering Council, banks and insurance companies, and the Bureau of Internal Revenue. Atty. Cabrera will connect the dots and provide this court. with the big picture. That is all for the offer, Your Honor. 01:36:04.630 --> 01:36:05.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment, Attorney Kristine? 01:36:06.710 --> 01:36:08.110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Subject to cross-examination. 01:36:08.670 --> 01:36:16.010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed with your direct examination, Honorable Diokno. The offer as well as the comment, subject to cross or jury 01:36:16.010 --> 01:36:16.250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: noted. 01:36:16.250 --> 01:36:34.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: First of all, before I proceed, if Your Honor please may be allowed, may the witness be allowed to bring with him and when necessary refer to the documents that he will be identifying before this honorable court. as well as his notes, as far as the witness stand is concerned, Your Honor. 01:36:34.120 --> 01:37:10.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Continuing authority is given to Attorney Cabrera, Attorney Alex, to look at his notes and as he very well knows, to make it known that he is referring to his notes without need of permission from the presiding officer. Continuing authority is also given to assisting counsels from both sides to approach the witness at any time. To either assist or assist him or view whatever documents he is looking at for reference, for the reference rather, of the handling lawyers, either on direct or on cross. You may proceed, Honorable Joaquin. 01:37:10.260 --> 01:37:27.010 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just one more administrative matter before we begin, Your Honor. May I also ask that a member of his team, who is also a certified public accountant, if necessary, be allowed to assist him in looking for documents as needed. during the direct or cross-examination. 01:37:27.010 --> 01:37:33.950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May we ask what his name is and where he or she is right now so that the court can identify her? The nickname, 01:37:34.110 --> 01:37:36.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: sir, is Ace, Your Honor. His name is Mr. 01:37:36.750 --> 01:37:36.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ace Vargas 01:37:36.990 --> 01:37:40.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So is Ace in the first gallery or he 01:37:42.140 --> 01:37:51.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may be seated in the first gallery similar to what we did with Attorney Anne of the BIR who assisted the witness. You were there on the side, Honorable Diokno, and saw it. 01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:52.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. 01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:57.010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So you can situate Ace. There, perhaps. Yes, Attorney Kristine? 01:37:57.450 --> 01:38:14.050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, yes. We agree to that. We have no objection to that. Provided that this assistant, Your Honor, will just hand over the documents, will not talk to the witness, and will not also point or guide the witness as to what documents to identify, Your Honor. 01:38:14.990 --> 01:38:15.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Understood, 01:38:15.730 --> 01:38:15.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor. 01:38:16.390 --> 01:38:31.370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Understood, but in any case, whatever actions the assistant would make, who is not testifying may be placed on the record by either of the parties or the court itself. Kindly situate Mr. Ace. 01:38:34.270 --> 01:38:38.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The documents are with him or in the long table behind you? 01:38:40.690 --> 01:38:41.690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Those are the documents? 01:38:41.690 --> 01:38:46.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: They are in the possession of the tech booth, Your Honor, please. 01:38:46.350 --> 01:38:47.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In the tech booth? 01:38:47.730 --> 01:38:50.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And also with the witness. He has a copy of the 01:38:50.260 --> 01:38:51.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So you may situate 01:38:51.170 --> 01:38:51.710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. 01:38:51.990 --> 01:38:55.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ace perhaps in the first gallery. behind the witness. 01:38:58.390 --> 01:38:58.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I 01:38:58.970 --> 01:38:59.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: proceed, Your Honor? 01:38:59.630 --> 01:39:01.090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anything else? 01:39:01.450 --> 01:39:11.390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, by the way, Your Honor, may we ask if these documents came from the witness, Your Honor? 01:39:11.730 --> 01:39:12.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which ones? 01:39:13.770 --> 01:39:16.330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, the ones behind him, Your Honor. 01:39:16.530 --> 01:39:18.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The ones with the ace. 01:39:19.970 --> 01:39:25.370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At the proper time, at the proper time, Atty. Kristine, we will go, we will get there. Okay. 01:39:25.900 --> 01:39:26.700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, Your Honor. 01:39:26.840 --> 01:39:29.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Diokno, you may proceed with your direct examination. 01:39:29.740 --> 01:39:37.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just one final manifestation, Your Honor. The documents that are there are the marked exhibits, Your Honor, that the witness may need to refer to. 01:39:37.660 --> 01:39:51.430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then let's respond to the query of Attorney Christine. The documents with Mr. Ace, are those documents also documents coming from Attorney Cabrera? Honorable Diokno? 01:39:51.430 --> 01:39:53.310 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. Those are. 01:39:53.310 --> 01:39:58.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So they're also from him, but he did not bring everything with him on the witness stand. 01:39:58.480 --> 01:40:08.380 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: It would be impossible for him to bring them all, Your Honor, because of the voluminous nature. However, he does have with him a copy of the USP which was also submitted to this honorable court. 01:40:08.380 --> 01:40:08.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 01:40:10.100 --> 01:40:14.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted, you may proceed. Finally, Honorable Diokno. 01:40:14.820 --> 01:40:19.320 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. Magandang hapon po, Atty. Alexander Cabrera. 01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:21.460 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Magandang hapon din po, Counselor Chel. 01:40:21.770 --> 01:40:26.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: For the record, please state your name, age, citizenship, and professions. 01:40:27.270 --> 01:40:35.490 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po si Alexander B. Cabrera. I'm a lawyer and an accountant, CPA. Ako po ay Pilipino. 01:40:37.550 --> 01:40:45.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Simulan po natin ng ating kwentuhan sa inyong educational background. Saan po kayo nag-high school? 01:40:47.090 --> 01:40:51.110 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po ay nag-high school sa Our Lady of Peace School, Antipolo Rizal. 01:40:51.790 --> 01:40:54.810 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At saan po kayo naman nag-aaral ng kolehyo? 01:40:55.360 --> 01:41:00.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po ay nag-aaral ng kolehyo sa Philippine School of Business Administration in Quezon City. 01:41:01.740 --> 01:41:07.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit po naman ninyo pinili ang PSBA or Philippine School of Business and Accountancy? 01:41:09.150 --> 01:41:30.600 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nung ako po ay namimili ng paaralan ng PSBA po ay isa po sa mga pinakatanyag na accounting school. At ang isang mahalagang dahilan din po ay Isang sakay lang po ang PSBA galing po sa Antipolo Simbahan. Nasa Aurora Boulevard po siya. Kaya nung araw pa lang po, naka point to point na po ako. 01:41:31.660 --> 01:41:34.620 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman po ang inyong pinag-iaralan sa PSBA? 01:41:35.060 --> 01:41:39.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Bachelor of Science in Business Administration and Accountancy po. 01:41:39.240 --> 01:41:39.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At 01:41:39.760 --> 01:41:42.460 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: kailan po kayo nagtapos sa kolehyong iyon? 01:41:43.420 --> 01:41:44.540 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 1986 po. 01:41:45.420 --> 01:41:55.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sabi ninyo kanina nung nagpakilala kayo na kayo'y Certified Public Accountant. Kailan po kayo nag-board exam as best as you can recall? 01:41:55.000 --> 01:41:56.380 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 1987 po. 01:41:56.380 --> 01:42:01.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At kailan po kayo nanumpa bilang CPA as best as you can recall? 01:42:01.540 --> 01:42:02.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 1988 po. 01:42:02.940 --> 01:42:08.720 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly tell the Honorable Court how you started out as a young Certified Public Accountant? 01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:22.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Pumasok po ko noon sa Joaquin Cunanan and Company. Ngayon po ang bago niya pong pangalan ay Isla Lipana and Company. Pumasok po ako bilang isang staff auditor. Yan po yung entry level. 01:42:24.570 --> 01:42:28.110 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano po yung inyong starting salary as a staff auditor if I may? 01:42:31.880 --> 01:42:33.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 2375 po. 01:42:33.440 --> 01:42:38.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At hanggang kailan kayo nagtrabaho sa Isla Lipana and Company? 01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:43.760 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Hanggang 2025 po, bago po ako nag-retire. 01:42:44.020 --> 01:42:56.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: In other words, Atty. Cabrera, mula nung kayo pumasok sa Isla Lipana noong late 1980s hanggang kayo ay nag-retire, tuloy-tuloy po ang inyong pagtatrabaho sa Isla Lipana? 01:42:56.840 --> 01:42:58.140 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po, counselor. 01:42:58.740 --> 01:43:02.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po ang inyong naging posisyon nung kayo ay nag-retire po? 01:43:04.620 --> 01:43:08.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nung ako po ay nag-retire, ang tawag po nila sa akin ay chairman emeritus po. 01:43:09.640 --> 01:43:17.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para po sa kaalaman ng mga kababayan natin na nunood, ano pong ibig sabihin ng chairman emeritus kung alam po ninyo? 01:43:18.610 --> 01:43:32.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang chairman emeritus po ay hindi po chairman. Wala po siyang power. And para sa akin po ang chairman emeritus is isa lamang pong term of endearment kung hindi man po respeto. 01:43:34.040 --> 01:43:44.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakilarawan po sa hukumang ito kung paano kayo umangat mula sa entry-level staff auditor. Hanggang kayo ay naging chairman emeritus ng Isla Lipana. 01:43:44.540 --> 01:44:04.420 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Galing po ng isang staff auditor, ako po ay naging isang senior associate sa tax department po. Bago po naging manager, senior manager, bago po naging partner, managing partner po ng tax. Bago po naging vice chairman ng firm at naging chairman po ng firm. 01:44:05.290 --> 01:44:10.050 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ilan naman pong taon na itong Isla Lipana and Company, if 01:44:10.050 --> 01:44:10.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you know? 01:44:10.610 --> 01:44:14.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, 104 years old na po ang Isla Lipana & Company. 01:44:14.730 --> 01:44:22.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa loob ng 104 years po na iyon, pang ilan kayo na kinilala bilang chairman emeritus? 01:44:23.190 --> 01:44:26.770 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po ang unang kinilalang chairman emeritus po. 01:44:27.070 --> 01:44:31.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para din po sa mga nanonood, ano pong klaseng firm ang Isla Lipana & Company? 01:44:31.870 --> 01:44:35.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po ay isang audit, accounting, and business advisory firm po. 01:44:36.400 --> 01:44:40.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And generally, what kinds of services does that company provide? 01:44:42.670 --> 01:44:54.630 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Assurance and audit services po, tax services, deals and corporate finance, consulting, tsaka risk assurance services po. 01:44:54.750 --> 01:45:04.910 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, sir. For the record, at para din hindi malito ang mga hukom at pati mga ating mga kababayan, may iba po bang pangalan ang Isla Lipana & Company? 01:45:05.370 --> 01:45:09.920 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, PWC po. PricewaterhouseCoopers pero PWC lang po. 01:45:10.240 --> 01:45:13.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit may dalawang pangalan ng Isla Lipana and Company? 01:45:14.040 --> 01:45:22.740 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang PWC po ang International Affiliation po ng Isla Lipana and Company. Kami po ay membro po ng network po na yan. 01:45:23.410 --> 01:45:34.110 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano ang kaugnayan kung meron man ng Isla Lipana or PricewaterhouseCoopers sa multinational na kilala sa pangalang PricewaterhouseCoopers International Limited? 01:45:34.620 --> 01:45:48.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: We signed a membership agreement, a network agreement with PWC International Limited. Pero hindi po sila partner. Bawal po yan. Pilipino lang po ang mga partner sa Isla Lipana. 01:45:48.560 --> 01:45:53.380 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At gaano po kalaki itong PricewaterhouseCoopers International Limited? 01:45:54.620 --> 01:46:07.760 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: We have member firms in over 160 countries and we have employees of these member firms. Number around more than 200,000 internationally. 01:46:09.290 --> 01:46:17.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po. Let's go back to how you rose up the corporate ladder. How many years did it take for you to become partner at Isla Lipana and Company? 01:46:18.960 --> 01:46:23.820 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I became partner po in 9 years or 9 and a half years po. 01:46:24.040 --> 01:46:30.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And in your experience, how long does it usually take for someone to make partner in your firm? 01:46:31.240 --> 01:46:34.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Around 12 to 15 years po. 01:46:35.990 --> 01:46:44.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sabi po ninyo kanina na kayo ay CPA pero abogado din. First question lang po, saan po kayo nag-aral ng abogasiya? 01:46:45.230 --> 01:46:46.570 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sa Ateneo Law School po. 01:46:47.850 --> 01:46:54.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Paano po kayo nakapag-aral ng law? Eh sabi nyo kanina tuloy-tuloy yung inyong pagtatrabaho sa Isla Lipana and Company. 01:46:55.750 --> 01:47:06.020 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, nagtatrabaho po ako from 8 to 5 p.m. and mapasok po ako ng school mula po 6 o'clock to 9 or 9.30 po ng gabi. 01:47:06.430 --> 01:47:14.670 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you po. Ba't di na lang kayo tumigil ng trabaho para makapag-concentrate sa pag-aaral ng law bilang full-time student? 01:47:15.500 --> 01:47:33.780 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nung ako po ay nagsimulang mag-aral ng law, ang aking magulang, yung isa po ay retired na at yung daddy ko rin doon ay pa-retire na po. So, para na lang po ma-enjoy nila yung konti nilang naipon, ako na lang po yung gumawa ng paraan po para po sa aking paglo-law. 01:47:34.860 --> 01:47:36.380 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sabi po ninyo kanina na 01:47:37.160 --> 01:47:45.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: During the day, kayo ay nagtatrabaho. During the evenings, kayo ay nag-aaral ng law. Full load po ba yun sa law school? 01:47:45.740 --> 01:47:54.620 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, isa lang po yung programa ng Ateneo Law School. Wala pong pang-istudyante or special program po for working students. 01:47:55.900 --> 01:48:04.080 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pasensya na po sa mga kaibigan natin na taga-Ateneo Law. Pero alam ko medyo mataas po ang tuition doon. Paano ninyo na-afford ito? 01:48:05.090 --> 01:48:08.050 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sa pamagitan po ng pagpapatuloy ng pagtatrabaho. 01:48:09.070 --> 01:48:13.570 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At kailan naman kayo nagtapos sa Ateneo School of Law as best as you can recall? 01:48:14.350 --> 01:48:15.430 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 1994 po. 01:48:15.990 --> 01:48:20.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman degree ang natanggap ninyo mula sa Ateneo School of Law? 01:48:20.490 --> 01:48:21.770 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Juris Doctor degree po. 01:48:22.130 --> 01:48:27.730 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para sa mga kababayan natin na hindi familiar po sa Juris Doctor, ano pong ibig sabihin nun? 01:48:28.030 --> 01:49:01.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Juris Doctor degree po eh, para pong Doctor of Law. Isa po ang tinayo sa mga naunang nag-offer po ng Juris degree program. Ang ibig pong sabihin yan ay para sa akin po ay bawat subject po sa isang gabi ay merong mga assignment na mga 30 cases po minimum siguro po naka-assign per subject. So parang sa isang gabi po pwede po kayong ma-assign na mga 100 cases po na babasahin po. 01:49:01.670 --> 01:49:07.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At kanina nagpakilala po kayo bilang abogado so I presume you took the bar exam and passed it? 01:49:07.990 --> 01:49:10.290 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, sa awa ng Diyos po. Nakapasa naman po. 01:49:11.860 --> 01:49:24.300 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Balikan po natin yung inyong trabaho sa Isla Lipana. You said you entered that firm as a staff auditor. Generally po, anong ginagawa ng isang auditor sa firm na ganyan? 01:49:25.170 --> 01:49:32.270 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang auditor po ay nagkakandak po ng audit, external audit. Ito po yung tinatawag na regular audit. 01:49:34.250 --> 01:49:45.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang ginagawa niya pong audit ay hindi po para sa kumpanya kundi po para po sa public. Para sabihin po sa public na ang financial statements ng kumpanyang ito ay mapagkakatiwalaan. 01:49:45.980 --> 01:49:52.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At for what purpose po tinitingnan ng isang auditor ang mga financial statements ng isang kumpanya? 01:49:52.760 --> 01:50:00.800 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, required po kasi itong financial statements na mag-support po sa income tax return at sinasubmit din po ito sa Securities and Exchange Commission. 01:50:09.410 --> 01:50:10.110 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank 01:50:10.110 --> 01:50:11.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you, sir. 01:50:11.250 --> 01:50:11.950 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What 01:50:11.950 --> 01:50:15.150 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: kinds of opinions, if any, do auditors give? 01:50:17.040 --> 01:50:28.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, yung una po, yung clean opinion po. Ang ibig sabihin po ng clean opinion is yung financial statements are fairly stated in all general respects. 01:50:30.140 --> 01:50:32.520 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung isa po ay qualified opinion. 01:50:34.210 --> 01:51:02.650 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Which means may problema po yung financial statements. Either meron pong hindi nakita yung auditor at yung hindi niya po nakita ay material. Or nakita niya po at may nakita po siyang discrepancy at yung nakita niya pong discrepancy ay material. Pero sa dalawa pong sitwasyon na to, yung kanya pong nakitang discrepancy o hindi niya nakitang document, material man, ay hindi po pervasive. 01:51:23.300 --> 01:51:24.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank 01:51:24.180 --> 01:51:35.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you. Sa madaling salita, nag-iimbestiga kayo ng mga financial statements at documents Para malaman kung may tinatago ang kumpanya o individual, tama po ba yun? 01:51:36.530 --> 01:51:51.410 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po yun. Tinitignan din po natin yung process po ng internal controls po ng kumpanya para malaman po kung mapagkakatiwalaan po yung controls. Kasi kung mapagkakatiwalaan po yung controls, lalo kayo magtitiwala sa numbers. 01:51:55.720 --> 01:52:01.680 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kanina po nabanggit ninyo yung regular audit. What other kinds of audits are there, if any? 01:52:02.750 --> 01:52:23.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron pong... Special audits which is based on agreed upon procedures. Meron din naman pong forensic audits or fraud audits na mas masinsin po sa isang special audit. Meron din po namang internal audit po. Yung internal audit po is para po sa management. 01:52:24.110 --> 01:52:35.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Nabanggit po ninyo yung forensic audit at sabi nyo kanina na naghahanap kayo ng fraud. Pakipaliwanag po ng konti kung ano pa nga bang forensic audit na yan? 01:52:36.260 --> 01:53:40.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang forensic audit po ay ano eh, para pong nage-examine po kayo ng iba't ibang mga dokumento. Pero ang pagkakaiba po nito ay pinagtatagpi-tagpi niyo po yung mga dokumentong iyon para malaman po ang katotohanan base po sa kwento na inyong matutunghayan. So ito pong forensic audit ay kadalasan po ginagamit po ito sa courts. Ginagamit po ito privately pagka meron pong nag-i-invest po halimbawa sa isang kumpanya para malaman nung investor kung may problema yung kumpanya talaga pagka meron silang nabalitaan na may nangyayaring katiwalian dun sa kumpanya niyan. Tsaka ginagamit din po ito ng mga litigants po para po makakolekta sa mga stockholder po na may-ari po ng kumpanya. Para po ma-pierce po ba yung veil na tinatawag at maging liable hindi lang po yung corporation kung hindi po yung mga stockholders directly po. 01:53:40.580 --> 01:53:55.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Maraming salamat po. Let's talk about your training first. What additional training if any did you undergo at Isla Lipana and Company? in conducting these regular and forensic audits and the other audit-related services that you mentioned. 01:53:55.740 --> 01:54:18.780 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, sa firm po kasi marami po kaming training, hindi po mabilang po. Pero bukod po sa mga trainings po inside the firm, ang pinakamahalaga po talagang training sa forensic is yung pang-araw-araw nyo pong ginagawa. Yun po talaga ang mahalagang training because only actual experience can really teach you how to do a forensic audit. 01:54:19.080 --> 01:54:26.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Then let me ask you, what work experience did you have if any in conducting these audits that you mentioned? 01:54:27.880 --> 01:55:10.770 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Samot-samot po eh. Marami pong financial audit related na forensic na ginawa namin. Pero minsan po yung mga kliyente po namin may pinasusundan po sa kanilang supply chain. Tinitingnan namin kung yung supply chain nila yung nagpo-provide po ng halimbawa toll manufacturer or service manufacturers nila kung nagko-comply po sa labor code sa batas po or sila po ba ay nag-ooperate ng sweatshop or nag-hire ba ng mga minor de edad minsan po ay may nag-forensic audit po kami ng mga computers po ng 01:55:10.780 --> 01:55:26.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: kumpanya. Naghahanap po kami ng evidence po ng nagda-download po ng child pornography. So yung forensic audit po ay hindi lagi pong financial. Pero ang kadalasan ko pong ginagawa ay financial forensic. 01:55:28.760 --> 01:55:32.700 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Baka hindi niyo kayang sagutin po itong susunod na tanong ko. 01:55:33.020 --> 01:55:34.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: More or less 01:55:34.020 --> 01:55:42.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: po mga ilang taon kayo nagko-conduct na ng ganitong mga klaseng audit. kasama na po ang forensic audit. 01:55:43.220 --> 01:56:01.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Actually po nung nagsimula po akong maging auditor eh fraud audit po kagadang napasok. Ang sarap nga po magkwento kung pwede lang eh. Pero sa 37 years ko po talagang ginagawa po ito kasama po ng aking mga ibang trabaho eh talagang libo-libo na po talaga. 01:56:04.200 --> 01:56:12.180 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Napakahirap na po mabilang nung oras na ginugol ko po. Dito lang po sa Trabahong ito po. Napakalaking oras na nang ginugol. 01:56:12.680 --> 01:56:25.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sabi niyo kanina that you rose from the ranks of Isla Lipana until you reached the highest position in the company. Kayo po ba ay pinadala ng inyong opisina sa ibang bansa para maging handa sa pamumuno? 01:56:25.240 --> 01:56:25.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 01:56:27.420 --> 01:56:50.220 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung training po namin sa technical, covered na covered po yan ng PWC. Pero about sa pamumuno po, kailangan pong mag-training po sa business schools. At yung una kong business school na pinagtrainingan ay Harvard Business School po on leadership and management. 01:56:50.780 --> 01:56:54.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para po sa mga nanonood, ano po ang Harvard Business School? 01:56:54.880 --> 01:57:32.990 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang Harvard Business School po ay isa po sa mga top international business schools. Ang kanila pong method ay case study method. Ang ibig pong sabihin nun ay gumagamit po sila ng mga hango sa tunay na buhay na problema po ng business upang maging pamilyar po ang mga estudyante. So yung umaaten po ng Harvard Business School, this is actually a post-graduate course. So yung po mga graduate na at mga naghahanda na pong magkaroon ng mataas na katungkulan sa kumpanya, kadalasan po siya yung kumukuha po nito. 01:57:34.850 --> 01:57:41.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Aside from your training at the Harvard Business School. What other schools abroad, if any, did you attend? 01:57:41.210 --> 01:57:41.750 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, 01:57:41.830 --> 01:57:45.750 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: nag-aaral din po ako sa Wharton Business School po. 01:57:45.750 --> 01:57:48.390 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman po ang Wharton Business School? 01:57:48.390 --> 01:58:12.740 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung Wharton Business School po, katulad po ng Harvard, isa rin pong sa mga top business schools. Pero yung programa pong kinuha ko po, in collaboration po with three other business schools. IESE po sa Barcelona at CIBS po sa China. So tatlong lugar po yung pinuntahan po ng programang yun. Tatlong lugar po yung venue ng pag-aaral na po yun. 01:58:12.920 --> 01:58:17.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At sabi nyo kanina kayo ay isang CPA lawyer. Ilang taon na po kayo CPA lawyer? 01:58:19.340 --> 01:58:27.750 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So 1995 po ako naging lawyer. So mga 30 years na po. Or 31 po. Sama nyo po yung ngayon. 01:58:28.610 --> 01:58:42.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Move on na po tayo, Atty. Cabrera. Pag-usapan po natin yung inyong involvement kung meron man sa mga management at professional organizations. What management organizations, if any, do you belong to? 01:58:43.620 --> 01:58:50.220 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Isa po na na yung Management Association of the Philippines kung saan po ako po ay naging dating vice president. 01:58:52.080 --> 01:58:55.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Justice Reform Initiative po kung saan po ako po ay chairman. 01:58:56.950 --> 01:59:00.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Integrity Initiative po kung saan po ako ay naging dating 01:59:03.400 --> 01:59:04.000 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: chairman. 01:59:05.630 --> 01:59:11.110 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Member din po ako ng AFP Multisectoral Governance Committee po. 01:59:13.800 --> 01:59:15.060 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron pa po mga iba. 01:59:15.560 --> 01:59:24.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po. Babalikan po natin yung ibang mga nabanggit ninyo. Familiar po ba kayo sa Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila? 01:59:25.740 --> 01:59:26.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 01:59:27.130 --> 01:59:29.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And why are you familiar with this organization? 01:59:30.230 --> 01:59:32.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dahil member po ako ng finance board ng 01:59:36.440 --> 01:59:37.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And very 01:59:37.640 --> 01:59:43.940 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: briefly, anong ginagawa ninyo po bilang member ng finance board ng Arcam as you mentioned it? 01:59:44.100 --> 01:59:58.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kami po yung nag-oversee po ng fiscal operations po ng Arcam at nag-a-advise po kung paano pagandahin ng governance. Kasama na rin po dito yung pagbantay po sa kanya po mga economic assets po. 02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:04.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What involvement, if any, have you had in any educational organizations, sir? 02:00:06.070 --> 02:00:10.290 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po ay advisor po ng Philippine Business for Education. 02:00:11.670 --> 02:00:21.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How about the Second Congressional Commission on Education o yung tinatawag pong EDCOM II? What involvement, if any, have you had with that commission? 02:00:21.990 --> 02:00:46.290 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, yung sa PBED po, ang layunin niya po ay lutasin po ang education crisis natin sa ating bansa. Yung PBID po ang isa po sa mga principal advocates po na mangyari po ang educational commission. So ako po ay member po ng standing committee on higher education po sa EDCOM 2. 02:00:46.970 --> 02:00:57.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po, move on na po tayo at pag-usapan natin yung inyong mga awards kung meron man. What awards, Atty. Cabrera, have you received as a CPA lawyer? 02:00:58.280 --> 02:01:06.160 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po yung nagkaroon po ng award ng Young Achiever in Public Practice, binigay po ng PICPA. 02:01:06.160 --> 02:01:10.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po, I'm sorry to interrupt, ano po yung ibig sabihin ng PICPA? 02:01:10.980 --> 02:01:14.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: PICPA po ay Philippine Institute of Certified Public Accountants po. 02:01:16.620 --> 02:01:21.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po siyang, siguro po lahat po ang mga naging member po niya, mga 20,000 na po. 02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:43.880 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Tayo po mga abogado ay merong Integrated Bar of the Philippines National Organization. Is the PICPA similar organization? Tama po. Maliban po sa nabanggit ninyong Young Achiever in Public Practice Award, what other awards if any have you received? 02:01:44.480 --> 02:02:14.770 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nakatanggap din po sa kanila ng Outstanding Professional in Public Practice po sa PICPA din po. At nakatanggap po ako ng recognition sa Philippine Regulatory Commission na isa po sa isang daang CPAs po. The centenarians po ang tawag po nila doon. Ito po yung mga recognizable CPAs po during the accounting professions past 100 years. 02:02:14.970 --> 02:02:19.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yun po. What awards, if any, have you received as an alumnus of your college? 02:02:21.940 --> 02:02:25.000 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nagkaroon po ako ng Outstanding Alumni Award po from PSBA. 02:02:25.380 --> 02:02:29.680 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At bilang CEO naman po, what awards have you received, if any? 02:02:30.680 --> 02:02:40.620 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nagkaroon po ako ng recognition po as the CEO of the Year Award po ng Asian Leaders Organization. 02:02:41.300 --> 02:02:45.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you tell us a bit about the Asian Leaders Organization that you just mentioned? 02:02:45.880 --> 02:02:59.570 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, hinahanap niya po sa ating bansa ang Ang mga CEOs po na dapat pong bigyan ng recognition sa ibang-ibang aspeto po ng business. 02:03:00.420 --> 02:03:16.940 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag-usapan naman po natin yung inyong karanasan bilang resource person sa mga hearing ng legislative departments kung meron man. First sir, what participation if any have you had in legislative hearings of the Senate or House of Representatives? 02:03:18.360 --> 02:03:30.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Marami po eh. Marami na po akong naatenda na hearings po on proposed bills, lalo na po sa tax. Pero minsan po nasa mining or nasa ibang industries po. 02:03:31.890 --> 02:03:43.950 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: As best as you can recall, I know this is a lot of information, pero maalala po ba ninyo kung kailan kayo unang kinumbida? ng kongreso na magtestigo bilang resource person? 02:03:44.270 --> 02:03:50.250 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, naalala ko po. Nung ako po'y bata pa, ganito pa lang po kalit. 02:03:52.090 --> 02:04:05.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Umaten po ko nung deliberation po ng anong definition ng representation expenses at ang namuno po nung ng committee na po na yon ay si Senator Juan Ponce Enrile. 02:04:05.660 --> 02:04:13.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ang mga ilang beses na po kayong tumistigo bilang resource person sa iba't ibang mga legislative inquiries ng Congress, both houses? 02:04:14.540 --> 02:04:32.160 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasi po sa isang taon mga several times po meron pa pong mga technical working groups. Kaya siguro po buong experience ko po over the past 37 or isama niyo po yung 38 years ko po after retirement, less than 100 po siguro yung na-attend ako na po. 02:04:32.570 --> 02:04:46.050 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag-usapan naman po natin ang inyong participation sa newspapers or other forms of mass media kung meron man. What work have you done in relation to newspapers or other forms of mass media, if any? 02:04:46.610 --> 02:04:54.090 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po yung naging columnist po sa Philippine Star for nine years. Ang pangalan po ng column ko is As Easy As 02:04:54.090 --> 02:04:55.400 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: ABC po. 02:04:55.400 --> 02:04:59.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po mga paksa ang tinatalakay ninyo sa inyong column na iyon? 02:05:00.250 --> 02:05:34.790 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, una po, siyempre po yung pung mahalaga po sa business. Pero marami po akong tinatalakay doon tungkol po sa pagmamahal po sa sarili nating bansa. Ano po yung mga natututunan nating lesson sa mga ating mga naging national heroes. Nagsusunod din po ako about ESG, sustainability po, about the matrix of ESG which is environment, social, and governance. At tungkol po sa mga traditional values po ng isang Pilipino. 02:05:34.790 --> 02:05:36.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At kayo po ba 02:05:36.130 --> 02:05:37.050 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: ay kinilala bilang 02:05:37.050 --> 02:05:38.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: isang kolumnista? 02:05:39.660 --> 02:05:49.040 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, na-recognize po, na-finalist po yung aking kolumn ng three times post ng Philippine Mass Media Awards, Catholic Mass Media Awards po. 02:05:49.660 --> 02:05:57.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. So far, napag-usapan na po natin yung inyong pagsusumika para maging CPA at lawyer, ang inyong pag-angat. 02:06:16.790 --> 02:06:27.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: As a CPA lawyer who has worked for 37 years at least in the country's oldest accounting firm, what would you consider your specialties if any, sir? 02:06:27.610 --> 02:06:31.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Una po siguro yung M&A po. Mergers and 02:06:31.850 --> 02:06:32.610 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Acquisitions po. 02:06:33.230 --> 02:06:33.790 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag 02:06:33.790 --> 02:06:42.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: -usapan po natin yung M&A na yan. Sa madaling salita dahil malamang hindi alam ng mga kababayan po yung mergers and acquisitions. Ano po ito? 02:06:44.100 --> 02:08:04.490 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang M&A po isang servisyong binibigay po natin sa isang investor or sa isa pong balak magbenta po ng kanyang kumpanya. Pero patukoy po sa isang investor, Kung isang investor po ay mag-i-invest sa isang company sa Pilipinas at may bibilhin po siyang kumpanya, kami po yung nagsusuri po sa kanila para sa kanila nung kumpanyang yun. Kasi po itong mga investor na to ay meron po silang negosyo. Doon po sila magaling. Pero hindi po nila kabisado kung paano po alamin kung ano talaga yung nangyayari doon sa kumpanyang yun. Una po sa lahat, yung financial statement bang yan ay nagsasabi ng katotohanan. Sino ang may-ari sa kumpanyang yan? Mabubuting tao ba yan? O may mga asulto rin? O may mga problema rin? Ano ang tunay na value ng kumpanyang yan? Hindi lamang based sa financial statements. Ano ang potential ng kumpanyang yan? O kung lugi man siya, may potential ba? O kung kumikita man siya ngayon, baka bukas eh lugi na. Marami pong tinitignan na aspeto katulad kasama na rin po dyan yung kanilang pagsunod sa batas sa lahat po ng uri ng batas at regulations. 02:08:07.950 --> 02:08:45.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tinitignan po din natin yung kanilang skill set, yung po bang mga taong nandyan sa kumpanyang yan ay magagaling o qualified po kasi kailangan po i-consider lahat po yan sa kanila pong sustainability. Sumusunod ba yan sa environment law? So puro usok yung factory niyan, baka may ipasari yan. O meron po ba yan mga utang na hindi nakasaad sa financial statements? Meron po bang litigation yung kumpanya niya na pending? Kaya po namin tinitignan lahat ito kasi po pag binili po yan ng kumpanya, mamanahin po nila lahat ng problema pong iyon. 02:08:46.060 --> 02:08:52.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para po rin sa kalaban ng lahat, dahil ako rin po ay hindi marunong dito sa mga bagay na ito. 02:08:53.360 --> 02:08:56.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano pong pagkakaiba ng merger at acquisition? 02:09:19.140 --> 02:09:20.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: pinagsasama mo ba yung operations mo 02:09:20.730 --> 02:09:23.630 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: o gusto nyo mag-operate nang magkahiwalay? 02:09:25.330 --> 02:09:40.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Hindi ko na po itatanong mismo sa inyo yung mga pangalan ng mga naging kliyente nyo sa M&A. I would assume may issues of confidentiality po yan. Gusto ko lang po malaman, anong mga klaseng malalaking merger at acquisition ang nahawakan ninyo? 02:09:43.390 --> 02:10:01.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sobrang dami po eh. Pero mga pag binanggit ko po sila parang masyadong malaki na po yung clue. Pero meron po akong ginawa na napakalaki po sa food industry. Meron po akong ginawa na napakalaki po sa, how do you describe? 02:10:03.280 --> 02:10:21.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sabihin na lang po natin generally agriculture ang kanila pong supply chain, pero retail po ang kanila pong final product. At recently po, at isa po ito sa mga malaking investments po noong last year na sa logistics and agricultural sector po. 02:10:21.920 --> 02:10:37.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para malinaw po tayo. Kanina nabanggit ninyo yung mga iba't ibang tinitingnan ninyo sa isang merger or acquisition. Kasama din po ba doon yung pagkahanap ninyo kung meron panloloko o fraud sa mga financial statements ng kumpanya? 02:10:37.770 --> 02:11:03.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo kasama po yun. In fact, sa M&A po, pag meron po kaming na-detect na ganyan, nag-convert po kami into a forensic audit mode. So parang nagiging iba po yung procedure pagka meron po kami nakitang exposure po on fraud. Sinasabi po namin sa kliyente namin at kung talagang tunay na may exposure sa tingin nila ay nag-convert po kami to a forensic audit methodology. 02:11:04.590 --> 02:11:10.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa loob ng halos apad na dekada, mga ilang merger and acquisition ang inyong sinuri po? 02:11:13.460 --> 02:11:17.870 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Napakarami. Napakarami na po eh. Talagang thousands na po. 02:11:18.220 --> 02:11:26.320 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. Kanina nabanggit po ninyo yung you will convert into a forensic audit if you see some irregularities. 02:11:27.480 --> 02:11:28.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How 02:11:28.230 --> 02:11:33.730 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: would you consider yourself in terms of specialties? Kasama din po ba ang forensic audit doon? 02:11:33.850 --> 02:11:47.700 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Kasama po ang forensic audit doon, isa po yun sa mga normal po naming ginagawa. Tulad nga po nang nasabi ko nung bagong-bagong auditor pa lang po ako, napasama na po ako kagad sa forensic team. 02:11:48.000 --> 02:11:56.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At sa loob na po ng halos apat na dekada, mga ilang oras ang inilaan ninyo dito sa mga pag-conduct ng mga forensic audit? 02:11:56.760 --> 02:12:01.020 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Naku, naku, libo-libo na rin po, counselor Chel. 02:12:01.020 --> 02:12:07.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, sir. You mentioned you have a specialty in mergers and acquisitions and forensic audit. 02:12:07.670 --> 02:12:08.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What 02:12:08.190 --> 02:12:11.670 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: other specialties, if any, do you have? 02:12:12.090 --> 02:12:21.410 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ikukonsider ko po ang specialty ko ang tax structuring at tax planning po. In fact, ito yung tax ang isa po sa mga pinakamalakas ko po ang specialization. 02:12:24.370 --> 02:12:24.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa 02:12:24.970 --> 02:12:31.430 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: simpleng salita po, just a brief answer. Ano po ang ibig sabihin ng tax planning and tax structuring? 02:12:31.900 --> 02:12:51.940 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung tax structuring po ay paano po natin i-organize po ang ating mga organizations para po hindi po masyadong mabigat ang tax. Pero hindi po tayo nag-a-advise ng gano'n nang wala pong substance doon po sa corporation. Hindi po pwedeng mga papel-papel lang eh makakaiwas na kayo 02:12:51.940 --> 02:13:00.140 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: ng tax. Dapat po may substance din po sa operations yun. At ang tax planning po ay yung po lang pag-maximize po ng ating 02:13:02.180 --> 02:13:13.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Loss. Para lang po makaiwas po sa tax na legal. Hindi po siya yung evasion. Ito po ay basic tax planning na provided din po sa ating tax code. 02:13:13.500 --> 02:13:19.580 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So tax planning and structuring, mergers and acquisitions, forensic audit, what other specialties? 02:13:19.580 --> 02:13:20.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung tax assessment po ay 02:13:20.840 --> 02:13:27.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: makukonsider ko pong isa po sa aking mga specialty. Kasama na po dyan ang tax fraud audits. 02:13:28.300 --> 02:13:29.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Meron pa ba? 02:13:32.050 --> 02:13:34.030 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron pa po kung gusto nyo po. 02:13:34.030 --> 02:13:36.050 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po, pakiexplain nyo lang po. 02:13:38.060 --> 02:14:03.280 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Isama na po natin yung tax and financial due diligence. In fact po, isa po ako sa mga siguro po mga mga ilang, sa mga konting professional lang po na nakakapag-lead po ng financial diligence, due diligence, tax due diligence, and legal due diligence po ng sabay-sabay. Sa tingin ko po, konti lang po nakakagawa niyan sa Pilipinas kung meron man. 02:14:04.180 --> 02:14:07.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po. Medyo nakakapagod na nga sa tanong ko pa lang eh. 02:14:09.140 --> 02:14:25.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pasensya na po atir ni Alex at medyo mahaba na nga ang mga napag-usapan natin sa inyong credentials but just a few more points I'd like to bring out. Pag-usapan po natin ngayon yung inyong mga advokasya kung meron man. May time pa ba kayo para sa mga advocacy? 02:14:26.180 --> 02:14:37.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Hindi po tayo nabubuhay lang para po sa Kita lamang, kailangan pong gumawa rin po ng kabutihan po para po sa ating bansa at para sa ating po mga komunidad. 02:14:37.920 --> 02:14:42.360 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What advocacies, if any, do you have, sir? 02:14:43.740 --> 02:15:13.860 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Siguro i-share ko po yung advocacy namin na medyo kakaiba po. Nagkaroon po kami ng advocacy sa turismo, sa tourism po. Ang tawag po namin doon ay Philippine Gems. Ito po yung mga second cheer. tourist destinations na amin pong tinulungan na maging maunlad at kapartner po namin dito ang Department of Tourism. Nag-conduct din po kami ng capacity building po sa iba't iba pong DOT offices po. 02:15:14.380 --> 02:15:22.960 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Napanggit niyo yung second-tier tourism areas. Ano pong mga syudad o lungsod po yan kung alam ninyo? 02:15:23.460 --> 02:16:03.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Lake Cebu po halimbawa po. sa Cotabato, sa Calaguas Islands, Mount Apo, Biri Islands po. So ito po yung Biri Islands po yung may mga rock formation po. Malaki po yung natulong po dito sa Calaguas Islands po. Malaki po yung naitulong po dito sa mga lugar na to kasi po nung Sila po ay natanghal na isa sa mga Philippine gems. Bigla pong bumulusok po yung tourism sa area at marami pong development na nangyari po sa kanila. 02:16:03.500 --> 02:16:13.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If I heard you right, you mentioned Mount Apo. Meron pa bang ibang area sa Davao na kayo ay tumulong sa pag-promote ng tourism? 02:16:13.970 --> 02:16:52.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sa Davao po, ang nagawa po namin para sa Davao ay nagawa po namin para sa six fastest growing cities po sa Bismin. Gumawa po kami ng libro for the 6 fastest growing cities in the BISMIN na nag-highlight po ng investment hotspots po sa mga cities na to. So sa Davao po ay sa Dauntless, Davao po yung title. Inspiring Iloilo po para sa Iloilo. Creative Cebu for Cebu. Get into Gensan for Gensan. CDO, City of O for CDO and Inspiring Iloilo if I... Haven't mentioned it already. 02:16:52.530 --> 02:16:57.410 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What city in Davao did you provide this kind of support sir? 02:16:57.870 --> 02:17:05.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sa Davao City po yung kung saan po mayor po si VP Sara po. 02:17:05.340 --> 02:17:06.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you sir. 02:17:06.200 --> 02:17:14.210 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Gumawa rin po kami para pala kay VP Sara noon ng amendment po sa Davao Investment Code po. 02:17:15.190 --> 02:17:24.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige po. Maliban po sa inyong pagpopromote ng tourism, What other advocacies if any do you espouse? 02:17:26.790 --> 02:17:50.730 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tumutulong din po kami sa Department of Trade and Industry. Ito pong nakaraan po tumulong po kami sa pag-craft po ng ano ba yung implementation ng ating bagong batas na Tatak Pinoy. Tumulong po kami sa DTI noon maghandak ng mga focus group discussions po sa iba't ibang lugar. 02:17:52.750 --> 02:18:11.790 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Advokasiya ko rin po ang Justice. Ako po ay chairman ng Justice Reform Initiative. At ang Justice Reform Initiative po ay nag-e-spouse po ng improvement of the administration of justice within and outside of the court system. 02:18:13.520 --> 02:18:25.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama na rin po doon ang rule of law po. Ang pag-improve po ng ating paggamit po ng rule of law sa lahat po ng ating ginagawa sa pang-araw-araw. 02:18:25.760 --> 02:18:30.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sino-sino po ang mga nagtayo ng Justice Reform Initiative if you know sir? 02:18:30.600 --> 02:18:37.220 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang Justice Reform Initiative po ay tinayo po ng iba't iba pong business groups at civic organizations po. 02:18:37.220 --> 02:18:39.360 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you give some examples if 02:18:39.360 --> 02:18:39.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: possible? 02:18:40.260 --> 02:18:51.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, membro po dyan ang Makati MAP, ang Makati Business Club, at mga iba pong mga civic organizations po. 02:18:51.620 --> 02:18:59.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano-ano pong mga ahensya ng pamahalaan kung meron man ang nakakatrabaho ng JRI, Justice Reform Initiative? 02:18:59.520 --> 02:18:59.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang 02:18:59.880 --> 02:19:05.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: JRI po, we are proud to say that we work with the Supreme Court, with our Supreme Court po. 02:19:07.640 --> 02:19:40.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung huli po namin ginawa with the Supreme Court is napakahalaga po justice perception survey. Kung saan po kami po ay nag-conduct noon ng survey, kung ano po ang masasabi ng ating publiko about sa regional trial court, sa appellate court po, at sa Supreme Court po. At if I may say, Counselor Chel, kahanga-hanga po ang Supreme Court po dahil They took the results of the survey on the chin and instituted even further reforms po. 02:19:41.440 --> 02:19:46.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: You've mentioned tourism, justice, what other advocacies if any do you have? 02:19:47.220 --> 02:20:34.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung integrity initiative po. Ito pong integrity initiative nung ako po yung naging chairman, nag-concentrate po kami sa mga kabataan. So kami po binababa po namin ang lessons po o pagtuturo po ng integrity sa mga kabataan natin dahil sa tingin po namin pagka tapos po ng school at natutod na po ng ibang ugali sa trabaho parang minsan po mahirap na pong habulin. So sa mga bata po, andyan po yung aming values formation program na ang ginagamit po ay pictures, picture-oriented. At sa mga College naman po ay tinuturuan po namin sila na kung paano po ma-overcome ang ethical dilemas without sacrificing integrity. 02:20:35.190 --> 02:20:46.610 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Earlier in your testimony, you mentioned a group called AFP-MSGC. What is that group if you can explain that sir? 02:20:47.450 --> 02:20:53.830 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, ang AFP-MSGC po ay para pong advisory group po sa AFP. 02:20:54.170 --> 02:20:56.910 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag sinabi po ninyong AFP, ano po yung tinutukoy ninyo? 02:20:56.910 --> 02:20:57.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Armed Forces of the Philippines po. 02:20:58.110 --> 02:21:01.830 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ito ay isang multisectoral governance council. 02:21:01.830 --> 02:21:16.070 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, gumagamit po ito ng all of nation collaboration approach para po makapagbigay po ng tamang advice po sa AFP. At marami pong aspeto ang kinukover po nito. 02:21:17.630 --> 02:21:31.610 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama na po dyan ang cyber security, humanitarian, national security. At nagagamit din po ang kaalaman po ng private sector para paunla rin ang governance within the ranks of the AFP po. 02:21:32.590 --> 02:21:40.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Meron po ba kayong kasulatan kung saan nakalagay yung lahat ng itong mga bagay na nabanggit po ninyo sa hukumang ito? 02:21:40.690 --> 02:21:42.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, sa resume ko po. 02:21:42.690 --> 02:21:44.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: You have a copy with you? 02:21:44.270 --> 02:21:45.990 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, dala ko po yung resume ko po. 02:21:47.710 --> 02:21:50.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly produce it for the benefit of the court? 02:21:52.880 --> 02:21:53.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If 02:21:55.300 --> 02:22:17.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: your honor please, we have copies for the defense as well as for the members of the court of the resume of the witness. If I may also manifest your honor that to ease and facilitate the proceedings, may we be allowed to do the markings for these documents and others the witness will be identifying after we terminate his testimony. 02:22:18.800 --> 02:22:23.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Definitely, counsel, are you proceeding to the meat of the testimony of this witness already? 02:22:23.900 --> 02:22:28.700 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I will be proceeding, Your Honor, to a few other matters before I get there. 02:22:29.120 --> 02:22:30.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kunti na lang buboto na daw siya 02:22:30.960 --> 02:22:31.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ni SP. 02:22:34.710 --> 02:22:39.590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung ano man daw ang takbuhan niya. Senator Judge Erwin is recognized. 02:22:44.890 --> 02:22:46.970 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 02:22:46.970 --> 02:22:47.910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is your pleasure, 02:22:48.090 --> 02:22:48.250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sir? 02:22:48.690 --> 02:23:32.160 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yes, Mr. Presiding Officer, we'd just like to, we've been sitting here for over an hour now. My idol lawyer, Atty. Chel Diokno, I believe has already laid down everything regarding the credibility of our witness here to be an auditor and probably a very good forensic expert, a financial expert. So, it would be very very... I guess for the sake of time, maybe the prosecution can start asking questions now. We will really be glad. Mr. Presiding Officer, thank you. 02:23:32.160 --> 02:23:32.720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That was the 02:23:32.720 --> 02:23:47.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: point raised indirectly by the Presiding Officer. Kindly wind up with the... The qualification of the expert witness you're presenting, Honorable Chel, I 02:23:47.600 --> 02:23:48.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: think you have sufficient, 02:23:49.120 --> 02:23:50.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you have enough in the records. 02:23:50.900 --> 02:23:58.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm very happy to report, Your Honor, that I have no more questions on the qualifications of the witness, if I may be allowed to proceed to the remainder of his testimony. 02:23:59.460 --> 02:24:01.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Honorable 02:24:01.420 --> 02:24:01.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Diokno 02:24:02.520 --> 02:24:03.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Atty. 02:24:03.100 --> 02:24:10.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Cabrera, what professional engagement, if any, do you have with the panel of prosecutors with respect to this case? 02:24:12.110 --> 02:24:33.150 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I was appointed by the panel of prosecutors as a forensic expert to look at the financial, corporate, tax and other records of VP Sara in relation to Article 2 of the impeachment complaint. 02:24:33.470 --> 02:24:37.390 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ito po bang engagement na ito ay naisulat? 02:24:37.530 --> 02:24:38.270 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 02:24:39.410 --> 02:24:40.690 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Do you have a copy with you? 02:24:40.890 --> 02:24:44.130 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dala ko rin po ang aking appointment paper po. 02:24:44.230 --> 02:24:54.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Witness, Your Honor, is producing a piece of paper which he said is engagement. May we request, we have copies, Your Honor, for the defense as well as for the 02:24:54.250 --> 02:24:55.070 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Counsel. 02:24:55.770 --> 02:24:59.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Senator, Judges, may we request that copies be provided. 02:25:02.230 --> 02:25:08.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm sorry, Your Honor, we will provide these copies as soon as they are photocopied. 02:25:10.860 --> 02:25:17.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The clerk is directed to obtain a copy and distribute copies of this to the senator judges prior to his marking. 02:25:17.970 --> 02:25:19.430 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If I may proceed, if Your Honor please. 02:25:19.430 --> 02:25:20.690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Honorable Diokno. 02:25:20.690 --> 02:25:29.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What terms of engagement did you impose on the panel of prosecutors, if any, as conditions for your engagement, Atty. Cabrera? 02:25:32.470 --> 02:25:41.020 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang mahalaga pong terms na in-impose ko po ay ito po. Gagawin ko po ito on a pro bono basis. 02:25:43.870 --> 02:25:47.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Pero ako po ay i-engage po sa aking personal capacity. 02:25:49.100 --> 02:26:07.540 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: At gagawin ko po ito independently. At wala pong predetermined result akong ipapangako sa prosecution. So ito po ay magagaling lamang sa aking natunghayang dokumento and based on my professional judgment. And I will not be swayed one way or the other po. 02:26:09.680 --> 02:26:10.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright sir. 02:26:12.370 --> 02:26:22.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Nakalagay po yan dyan sa inyong engagement letter, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, na maaari po kayong i-request na mag-submit ng report sa panel of prosecutors. 02:26:22.870 --> 02:26:23.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What 02:26:23.230 --> 02:26:28.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: did you do in relation to that portion of the engagement letter, if any? 02:26:29.250 --> 02:26:38.070 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ako po yung nag-submit ng report sa tao pong nag-appoint sa akin, ang si Lead Counsel, Atty. Jerviel Jinky, 02:26:43.370 --> 02:26:47.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At may dala po ba kayong kopya ng sinasabi ninyong report? 02:26:47.750 --> 02:26:49.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po. 02:26:49.230 --> 02:26:52.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Witness producing a document, may I? 02:26:52.330 --> 02:26:53.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. 02:26:53.210 --> 02:26:56.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly read the title of that document for the record? 02:27:03.070 --> 02:27:10.270 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Forensic Report on Vice President Sara Duterte and Spouse's Financial, Corporate, Property, and Related Records. 02:27:11.020 --> 02:27:19.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just for the record, Your Honor, copies of the report have already been provided to the members of the Honorable Court as well as to the defense counsels. 02:27:19.640 --> 02:27:19.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly 02:27:19.860 --> 02:27:22.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: noted, the presiding officer confirms that. 02:27:22.920 --> 02:27:30.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Do you attest, Atty. Cabrera, that you prepared this report in accordance with the terms and conditions of your professional engagement? 02:27:30.700 --> 02:27:32.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I do attest, Counselor Chel. 02:27:32.760 --> 02:27:38.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, Your Honor, I request that I be allowed to mark the document after the witness is finished. 02:27:40.760 --> 02:27:43.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That has been ruled by the Presiding Officer, Your Honor. 02:27:44.880 --> 02:27:55.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. Bago po natin pag-usapan ng mga numero, gusto ko pong malaman, paano ninyo sinagawa ang inyong financial review sa kasong ito? 02:27:59.320 --> 02:28:24.900 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang aming financial review sa forensic report po ito ay nanggagaling lamang po sa aming analysis ng mga dokumentong ibinigay po sa amin ng prosecution. So yun po yung limit po ng aming Trabaho po dito. Ginawa po namin yung analysis lalong lalo na po nung years for the years 2022 kung kailan po nagsimulang manungkulan si BP Sara po. 02:28:26.050 --> 02:28:31.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can you give us a bird's eye view of the documents you reviewed for this case? 02:28:31.770 --> 02:28:34.530 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Yung AMLA reports po. 02:28:36.330 --> 02:29:08.980 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung corporate records po ng mga kumpanya po kung saan po sila po ay may Pag-aari o business interest kasama na po dyan yung GIS. Ang financial statements po ng mga kumpanyang ito. At ang bank accounts po ng mag-asawa na si BP Sara at si Atty. Manz Carpio po. At ang mga bank accounts po ng mga korporasyon po na meron po silang pag-aari. 02:29:09.450 --> 02:29:12.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How about the tax records? Kasama din po ba yun? 02:29:12.090 --> 02:29:20.770 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama rin po yung tax records sa aming tinignan ang ITR po ng mag-asawa at saka ng mga korporasyon po. 02:29:21.410 --> 02:29:25.950 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Nabanggit niyo yung mag-asawa. Sino po ang tinutukoy ninyong mag-asawa? 02:29:26.150 --> 02:29:30.970 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Si VP Sara po at si Atty. Mans Carpio po. 02:29:31.290 --> 02:29:37.110 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag sinabi po ninyong VP Sara, ibig sabihin ay Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte for the record. 02:29:37.390 --> 02:29:37.890 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 02:29:38.380 --> 02:29:46.120 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At pag sinabi po ninyong Atty. Carpio, ang tinutukoy po ninyo ay si Atty. Manases Carpio, yung kanyang may bahay. 02:29:46.120 --> 02:29:46.620 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 02:29:46.920 --> 02:29:59.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. Bakit po ninyo pinagsama ang mag-asawang Vice President Sara Duterte at Atty. Manases Carpio sa inyong financial review? 02:30:00.000 --> 02:30:43.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, unang-una po ang SALN po ay although si VP Sara lang po yung government official, nagpa-file po siya ng SALN kasama po ang properties po ng kanyang asawa po. Yan po ay requirement po ng batas. Kasama rin po dito sa dahilan ay kinasal po sila I think po 2007 during the effectivity po ng family code. Kaya po sila po may absolute community of property. At sabi nga po ng ating presiding officer ay wala po silang prenuptial agreement. At wala rin po kaming nakitang judicial decree of separation of property. 02:30:43.920 --> 02:30:54.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kanina po na inilabas po ninyo yung inyong report. Nasaan po sa inyong report ang mapapalagay natin mga mahalagang findings po ninyo? 02:30:54.240 --> 02:31:01.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po kaming Ginawa pong summary po ng findings. Kung di po ako nagkakamali sa table 39 po. 02:31:02.470 --> 02:31:13.150 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin, request po sa tech booth. Your Honor, I will be showing table 39 which is what is shown in the report itself. It's not a summary, but from the report itself, if I may. 02:31:14.190 --> 02:31:37.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, since you gave us a hard copy, again, Atty. Kristine, I will give you a copy of all of these after because it also includes information that is That is part of the direct of the respondent. But we will be able to catch up. And I will, with the indulgence of Attorney Kristine, I will be the one to flag anything before it is shown. 02:31:38.220 --> 02:31:38.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Without 02:31:38.660 --> 02:31:55.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: prejudice to an objection from the counsel, if I should miss anything or should you disagree with the ruling of the Chair on whether or not it could be shown. The gentleman may proceed. Unless the Chair... Asks for a pause. You can continue and go along. Honorable Diokno. 02:31:56.750 --> 02:31:57.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kung 02:31:57.230 --> 02:32:03.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: maaari po, ipakita po natin ang table 39 na nasa page 37 ng report ni Atty. Alex Cabrera. 02:32:12.940 --> 02:32:14.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kindly blow it up. 02:32:14.260 --> 02:32:20.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The tech is instructed to kindly blow it up. And simply focus on what the Honorable Diokno wants to focus on. 02:32:20.760 --> 02:32:30.680 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay. Una sa lahat, Atty. Alex Cabrera. Sa simpleng salita lang po, ano ang pinapakita nitong Table 39 ng inyong report? 02:32:31.160 --> 02:32:59.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang Table 39 po ay nahati po sa dalawang bahagi po. Ang undeclared assets po ng ating VP Presidente at ng kanyang butihing may asawa. Ang undeclared assets po, based on the the declared assets in their SALN at ang undeclared income po based on the comparison po with their declared income po sa kanilang income tax 02:32:59.960 --> 02:33:00.600 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: returns. 02:33:00.600 --> 02:33:05.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pag sinabi ninyong undeclared, what do you mean? Undeclared where? 02:33:07.140 --> 02:33:19.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Undeclared po sa SALN at ang SALN po is as of December 31 ng katapusan po ng taon at undeclared po sa income tax return. 02:33:21.360 --> 02:33:31.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At this juncture, your honor, I would beg the indulgence of the court if we could take a very short CR break lang po. I will be standing here for some time and I would... 02:33:31.600 --> 02:33:33.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 02:33:33.680 --> 02:33:35.700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: also need one, attorney Kristine? 02:33:36.620 --> 02:33:37.800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'm okay, your honor. 02:33:39.300 --> 02:33:40.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay pa daw sa Chel, eh. 02:33:41.600 --> 02:33:45.940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I have no objection with that. I have no objection with the request of... 02:33:45.940 --> 02:33:46.540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. 02:33:48.480 --> 02:33:50.340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: How many minutes, Honorable Chel? 02:33:50.340 --> 02:33:53.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just two minutes, Your Honor. I'll be back immediately. 02:33:57.110 --> 02:34:00.230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair declares a five-minute recess. We resume at 4.07. 02:40:24.040 --> 02:40:35.720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the information of the Honorable Chel, schedule-wise, we're looking at you finishing your cross within today. Is that a realistic possibility? 02:40:36.080 --> 02:40:36.780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Direct, rather. 02:40:37.860 --> 02:40:44.160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before we adjourn today. The Chair would just like to know if that's a realistic possibility. 02:40:45.300 --> 02:40:50.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm not sure I'll be able to promise that, Your Honor. We can try our best and see how far we go 02:40:50.660 --> 02:40:50.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, I'm 02:40:50.740 --> 02:40:51.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not rushing 02:40:51.100 --> 02:40:57.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you. I'm not rushing you. We just want to manage expectations. You may proceed, the Honorable Chel, with your direct... 02:40:57.420 --> 02:40:58.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank 02:40:59.060 --> 02:41:01.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you. Okay pa ba kayo, Atty. Cabrera? 02:41:02.120 --> 02:41:03.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Okay na, okay pa po, Cons. Chair. 02:41:04.560 --> 02:41:11.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. Ipakita po natin ulit ang table 39 on page 37 of the report. 02:41:18.340 --> 02:41:33.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Meron pong nakalagay sa left side first column na year. Tapos meron pong nakalagay dyan na 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025. Ano pong ibig sabihin ng column na yan? 02:41:33.200 --> 02:41:39.040 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung column na effectively nagsasabi po nung tinignan po naming taon. 02:41:41.400 --> 02:41:47.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung mga taon na si BP Sara po ay nanonungkulan bilang vice president. 02:41:48.080 --> 02:41:57.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At pumunta po tayo sa second column. Nakasulat po dyan ay total undeclared cash. Anong kwento dito, sir? Ang 02:41:57.240 --> 02:42:09.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: kwento po dito, ito po ay summation po ng ending balances po sa iba't ibang bangko na pag-aari po ni BP Sara na kanyang asawa. 02:42:10.960 --> 02:42:22.680 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: At compare lamang po namin yung ending balances po ng banko galing po sa bank account sa kanila pong naka-declare na cash sa SALN kung meron man po. 02:42:22.860 --> 02:42:30.940 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ibig sabihin binangganin nyo yung nasa ending balances ng SALN doon sa mga ending balances ng mga bank accounts na nakita po ninyo. 02:42:31.040 --> 02:42:31.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 02:42:31.580 --> 02:42:42.010 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. At magkano po ang total undeclared cash? na nakita po ninyo for the year 2022? 02:42:42.810 --> 02:42:47.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 60,214,776 po. At 02:42:47.510 --> 02:42:55.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: magkano po ang total undeclared cash na wala sa SALN ni VP Sara sa taong 2023? 02:42:55.590 --> 02:42:58.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 80,701,151 po. 02:42:59.730 --> 02:43:00.650 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano naman 02:43:00.650 --> 02:43:00.670 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: po? 02:43:00.670 --> 02:43:02.830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, before the witness answers. 02:43:03.570 --> 02:43:04.670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Kristine 02:43:04.670 --> 02:43:24.010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: President. We would rather have this undeclared cash as alleged because this is still subject to cross-examination and offer of evidence and has not been proven as a fact yet. So may we ask the counsel if that can be used, the term alleged will be used. 02:43:24.890 --> 02:43:56.080 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I don't think I may respond, Your Honor. I don't think the defense can dictate what words will come out of my mouth. I'm simply, I have already established with the witness how the undeclared cash, how he computed it. He said, binangga po niya yung year-end balances ng mga bank accounts na tinignan niya at kinampara po niya sa year-end balance sa SALN ng mga taon na yan. Therefore, we submit, we have laid the basis for the witness to answer these questions. 02:43:56.780 --> 02:44:15.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The chair will overrule the objection but on a different ground. The counsel is merely reading what is contained in the table or summary of the witness. He described it as undeclared. So the counsel is merely referring 02:44:15.040 --> 02:44:19.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to the table prepared by the witness in relation to his question. 02:44:19.870 --> 02:44:23.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm sorry, Attorney Kristine, objection is overruled. 02:44:24.050 --> 02:44:32.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could we ask the visitors to answer? Ulitin ko po, magkano po ang nakalagay na total undeclared cash for the year 2023? 02:44:33.780 --> 02:44:37.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 80,701,151 pesos po. 02:44:37.500 --> 02:44:40.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para naman sa taong 2024 sir? 02:44:40.540 --> 02:44:44.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 23,169,077 pesos po. 02:44:44.500 --> 02:44:45.880 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And for the year 2025? 02:44:46.380 --> 02:44:50.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 43,611,929 pesos po. 02:44:53.640 --> 02:44:56.720 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Meron po ba kayong breakdown nito sa inyong report? 02:44:56.720 --> 02:44:58.120 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ay, meron po. 02:44:58.120 --> 02:45:04.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin please ang table 1 nasa page 3 ng report ni Atty. Cabrera. 02:45:16.220 --> 02:45:32.300 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. We have redacted or blotted out the account numbers, Your Honor, to avoid any issues or objections there. Atty. Cabrera, ano po ang kwento nitong table 1? 02:45:34.850 --> 02:45:35.450 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito 02:45:35.450 --> 02:45:40.270 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: po yung table po ng mga bank accounts po na nasa pangalan po ni BP Sara. 02:45:40.790 --> 02:45:52.390 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At yung tinignan po ninyo dyan, sorry po, I will withdraw. Yung nasa third column na nasa taas ay December 31, 2022, ano pong ibig sabihin yan? 02:45:53.960 --> 02:45:56.860 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung mga undeclared balances po. 02:46:07.120 --> 02:46:07.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. 02:46:08.620 --> 02:46:12.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung mga undeclared balances nung December 31, 2022. 02:46:13.100 --> 02:46:49.720 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Linawin po natin. The columns here show the years December 31, 2022, December 31, 2023, December 31, 2024, and also December 31, 2025. But on the leftmost column, pakipakita lang po yung leftmost. Not the account numbers but the first column. Meron po mga bangko na nandyan. So para malinaw po tayo, what do the dated columns refer to insofar as the first column is concerned? 02:46:50.970 --> 02:46:55.130 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung po yung mga bank accounts po na nandun po sa bangko na nasa kaliwa po. 02:46:55.690 --> 02:47:01.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At yung nakalagay ng mga numero dyan, yan po yung mga ending balance ng mga bank account po na yan. 02:47:01.510 --> 02:47:04.690 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po, na hindi po nakadeclare sa SALN po. 02:47:04.690 --> 02:47:05.460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Kristine? 02:47:05.580 --> 02:47:21.530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. Our continuing objection, the flashing of this table, Your Honor. And also, we note that the account numbers have not been fully redacted, Your Honor. So, if the counsel can just not 02:47:21.530 --> 02:47:23.550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: flash 02:47:23.550 --> 02:47:24.090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: them now. 02:47:24.310 --> 02:47:32.590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The continuing objection is noted. Kindly redact it further in the subsequent slides. I think you have a guy in the tech booth anyway. 02:47:34.920 --> 02:47:35.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Or simply 02:47:35.960 --> 02:47:38.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: skip the account number. You 02:47:38.040 --> 02:47:38.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can zoom out 02:47:38.660 --> 02:47:43.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and then just zoom in on the figures you want the witness to testify on. 02:47:43.840 --> 02:47:52.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I request that the tech booth be instructed accordingly. Huwag na po natin ipakita yung mga account numbers. Yun na lang pong ibang mga... 02:47:52.500 --> 02:47:55.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Honorable Diokno. The continuing objection of counsel is noted. 02:47:59.660 --> 02:48:07.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bago po, can we ipakita po natin ang table 2 ng report ni... Atty. Cabrera. 02:48:11.440 --> 02:48:17.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The account numbers in Table 2 are not redacted at all, so kindly be mindful. Tech is instructed. Thank you. 02:48:18.300 --> 02:48:21.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po ang kwento naman nitong table na ito? 02:48:22.080 --> 02:48:27.940 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang Table 2 po ay nagre-refer po sa mga bank accounts po na nasa pangalan po ng spouse po ni BP Sara. 02:48:28.700 --> 02:48:33.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At kapunta naman po tayo sa Table 3. Again, please do not show the account numbers. 02:48:33.300 --> 02:48:37.620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, the tech is once again reminded. Kindly be mindful of it. 02:48:39.990 --> 02:48:43.990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sorry, Honorable Diokno. We did not see the totals for the previous slide. 02:48:44.330 --> 02:48:52.790 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm sorry. Could we show, ipakita po natin muna yung totals ng slide, table number 2, please. Totals lang po. 02:48:53.050 --> 02:48:55.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For 22, 23, 24, and 25. 02:48:56.410 --> 02:48:57.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, sir. Yeah. 02:48:57.950 --> 02:48:58.490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There you go. 02:49:00.770 --> 02:49:04.250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the record, can you read the amount, Atty. Alex? 02:49:05.370 --> 02:49:10.970 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total po nung 2022 po, ito po yung mga bank accounts po ng spouse po ni BP Sara. 02:49:13.230 --> 02:49:46.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nung 2022 po, December 31, 41,554,818 pesos po. Nung 2023, total po ay 49,203,148 pesos po. Nung 2024, ang total po ay 13,433,698 pesos po. At nung 2025 naman po ay 28,412,950 po. 02:49:48.310 --> 02:49:49.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed, Honorable Diokno. 02:49:49.810 --> 02:49:50.930 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. 02:49:52.990 --> 02:50:01.550 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yung next table po ang ipakita natin. I believe that is table number 4. Huwag na po yung account numbers, yun lang pong remaining columns, please. 02:50:03.180 --> 02:50:04.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There you go. 02:50:05.990 --> 02:50:13.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. Ngayon, ano po itong table 4 na ito? Ano pong pinapakita nito, sir? 02:50:13.750 --> 02:50:25.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po ay bank account din po ni Atty. Manases sa Carpio po. Pero ito po ay bank account na related po sa kanya pong sole proprietorship na business po, 888 Bistro. 02:50:25.780 --> 02:50:35.810 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can you explain why it appears that this belongs to a different personality, 888 Bistro? Bakit po ninyo sinama ito sa inyong... sa inyong report. 02:50:35.810 --> 02:50:36.050 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang 02:50:36.050 --> 02:50:36.730 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 888 02:50:36.730 --> 02:50:37.150 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Bistro 02:50:37.150 --> 02:50:46.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: po ay hindi po siya separate corporation. Hindi po siya corporation. Sole proprietor lang po. Kaya po, diretso po yung bank account po kay Atty. Manessius Carpio. 02:50:47.360 --> 02:50:56.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At maaari po ba niyong banggitin na lang po yung totals ng bawat taon mula December 31, 2022 na nasa table? 02:50:56.440 --> 02:51:14.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 2022 po, 1,133,177. Nung 2023 po 4,668,077. Nung 2024 po 179,929. Nung 2025 po 1,194,702. 02:51:25.760 --> 02:51:30.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ang mga bank accounts kung saan kasama si Vice President Sara Duterte o yung kanyang asawa. 02:51:30.640 --> 02:51:34.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Counsellor Chel, bagamat di po natin ipakita ang Table 3 po. 02:51:36.540 --> 02:51:42.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Balikan po natin. I'm sorry, Your Honor. Let's show again, please, Table 3. Just the ending balances, please. 02:51:45.010 --> 02:51:45.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ayan. 02:51:47.060 --> 02:51:55.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's go back to this and I don't mean to confuse you. I'm sorry for skipping this. Ano pong tinutukoy dito sa Table 3? 02:51:55.920 --> 02:52:01.740 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito pong table 3 ay joint bank accounts po ni BP Sara po at ang kanya pong may asawa. 02:52:02.020 --> 02:52:12.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At maaari po ba ninyong basahin yung suma total ng bawat taon mula December 31, 2022 na nandyan sa table 3 na yan? 02:52:12.780 --> 02:52:34.090 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, noong 2022 po, 8,797,891. 2023 po, 9,861,224. 2024 po 1,021,919 pesos and 2025 po 1,819,046 pesos po. 02:52:34.170 --> 02:52:51.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So ibig sabihin po, itong mga naipakita natin Tables 1 hanggang Table 4 ay ibinanganin niyo ang SALN VP Sara sa mga year-end balances ng mga bank accounts kung saan kasama si Vice President Sara o yung kanya asawa, si Manases Carpio. 02:52:51.330 --> 02:52:52.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 02:52:52.300 --> 02:52:54.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Move on naman po tayo sa table 5. 02:52:57.970 --> 02:53:06.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po ang kwento dito? Could we request that, I'm sorry sir, i-zoom lang po natin na itong table na ito. 02:53:08.860 --> 02:53:10.220 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bigger please if possible. 02:53:16.730 --> 02:53:18.170 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes sir, please continue. 02:53:18.810 --> 02:53:33.370 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, ito po yung mga total lang po ng mga balances po nila na undeclared po noong 2022 hanggang 2025 po. Ito po yung nag-a-appear po doon sa Summary po nung table 39 na pinakita natin kanina. 02:53:33.980 --> 02:53:43.780 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So this is how you arrived at the totals appearing in table 39 which we showed earlier, second column on cash. Thank you. 02:53:45.580 --> 02:53:50.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, pakibasa nga po sir yung nakalagay sa ilalim ng table 5. 02:53:52.090 --> 02:54:04.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Please note that we have no information available on the VP or spouse's cash on hand or those held outside of the banking system. or cash in digital wallet si Penny or cash in foreign currency accounts. 02:54:05.010 --> 02:54:08.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit po ninyo nilagay itong statement na yan sa inyong report? 02:54:09.270 --> 02:54:28.530 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasi po ang aming po lamang nasuri ay ang bank accounts po. At maaaring po meron siyempre po silang hawak na pera. Maaaring po nasa bulsan, nasa pitaka, nasa safety deposit, nasa safe or nasa vault. 02:54:30.430 --> 02:54:41.490 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron din po mga pera sa GCash kung natural lang naman po yun at hindi po kasama po dito yung foreign currency accounts po kasi wala po tayong information po tungkol doon. 02:54:41.610 --> 02:54:47.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: In other words po, pagka sinama mo nga yung mga yan, maaaring lumaki pa ang halaga pero hindi pwedeng bumaba? 02:54:49.040 --> 02:54:59.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Hindi po bumaba pero hindi ko po alam kung lalaki dahil kailangan po munang meron po tayong information po sa mga bagay po ito bago po ako makapagsabi po. 02:55:00.270 --> 02:55:03.570 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. Balik po tayo please sa table 39. 02:55:10.780 --> 02:55:26.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Naipaliwanag na po ninyo ang first column, yung year. Yung second column, total undeclared cash. Ano naman po ang kwento dito sa third column na nakasulat ay quote, total undeclared other personal and real properties. 02:55:27.250 --> 02:56:03.920 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Ito po naman ay mga personal and other properties po consisting of physical personal properties. kasama po dito sa personal properties, pati po yung hindi po physical, consisting po of their investments, maaari pong investments in bonds, blue chip companies or shares of stocks, investment po in instruments or investments po in insurance policies po, at yung pong investment po nila dito po sa mga kumpanya meron po silang pag-aari. 02:56:05.000 --> 02:56:21.830 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Maliban po sa investments and insurance at the real properties na nabanggit ninyo, what other personal and real properties, if any, are included in the third column entitled Total Undeclared Other Personal and Real Properties? 02:56:22.390 --> 02:56:31.710 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dito po kasama rin po dito yung kanila pong investments sa kanila pong mga kumpanya na meron po silang pag-aari. 02:56:34.490 --> 02:56:56.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama po yung mga kumpanya po ng kanyang asawa na si Atty. Mans Carpio po. Bagamat yung mga kumpanya po yun, kinuha lang po namin yung capital niya po dun sa kumpanya yun pero hindi po namin talaga na-examine or napuruhan po yung mga kumpanya yun dahil kulang po ang oras eh. 02:56:57.260 --> 02:57:10.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Focus po muna tayo sa investment and insurance na nabanggit ninyo kanina. Maari po natin ipakita ang Section 2A na nasa page 6 ng report ni Atty. Cabrera. 02:57:22.380 --> 02:57:28.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May we request the Tech Booth please to show Section 2A appearing on page 6 of the report. 02:57:30.850 --> 02:57:35.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The guy in the Tech Booth is your guy, Hon. Chel, correct? 02:57:36.030 --> 02:57:36.650 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. 02:57:36.830 --> 02:57:37.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not ours? 02:57:37.930 --> 02:57:38.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: No, Your Honor. 02:57:38.770 --> 02:57:43.050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So any delays, mistakes would be attributable to you and not to Annika? 02:57:43.210 --> 02:57:44.050 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. 02:57:45.200 --> 02:57:46.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. You may proceed. 02:57:47.280 --> 02:57:55.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ayan po. Pakizoom lang po yung portion na nakalagay number 2. Ayan. And then letter A. 02:57:58.300 --> 02:58:00.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Para mabasa po ng mga hukom natin. 02:58:02.270 --> 02:58:03.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bigger please. 02:58:04.930 --> 02:58:05.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige pa po. 02:58:08.810 --> 02:58:17.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kung kaya pa. Ayan. Ayan. Attorney Cabrera, ano po ang tinutukoy nitong section 2A ng inyong report? 02:58:17.750 --> 02:58:32.380 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung, ang tinutukoy po nito ay mga investments po nila. Tulad nga po nang nabanggit ko dito po sa investment in shares of stocks, investment in bonds, financial instruments, at investment po nila sa insurance. 02:58:34.610 --> 02:58:43.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, punta po tayo sa table 8 sa susunod na pahina ng report. I'm referring to page 7. 02:58:55.850 --> 02:59:10.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I believe, Your Honor, there has been a little bit delay because our techs are also trying to make sure that no... Personal information are being shown on the screen with the indulgence of the Honorable Court. 02:59:17.760 --> 02:59:20.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed. I think that's the slide you're referring to? 02:59:21.660 --> 02:59:28.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, sir. Thank you, Your Honor. What does this table show, Attorney Alex, if you know? 02:59:28.730 --> 02:59:49.430 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Siguro po itong table na ito ang nagpapakita po ng dalawang uri po ng insurance policy. Or payment po sa insurance policy. Yung BDO life insurance po binabayaran po over a period of 5 years. Pero yung insurance po sa FWD binayaran po ng one-time payment. One-time premium payment po. 02:59:49.830 --> 02:59:54.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Paki-explain nga po kung anong ibig sabihin ng one-time premium payment? 02:59:54.370 --> 02:59:59.910 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, instead na installment po na taon-taon e. Parang isang bayaran lang po yung 10 points. 03:00:06.720 --> 03:00:10.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How much was the policy worth? 03:00:12.410 --> 03:00:18.110 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 13,250,000. 03:00:18.920 --> 03:00:33.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa madaling salita sir, bumili si Manases Carpio ng insurance coverage worth 13.2 million pesos noong 2024 at binayaran niya ng buo sa halagang 10.6 million pesos. Tama po ba yan? 03:00:33.580 --> 03:00:34.360 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:00:36.420 --> 03:00:41.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ito ay nakalagay na undeclared insurance. What do you mean by that? 03:00:41.660 --> 03:00:45.700 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ibig sabihin po nito hindi po ito na-declare sa kanya pong SALN po. 03:00:46.700 --> 03:00:51.960 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita naman po natin ang table 11 sa page 8 ng inyong report. 03:00:54.150 --> 03:00:56.930 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman po ang kwento dito sa table 11? 03:00:57.330 --> 03:01:03.870 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito pong table 11 ay insurance policies po na naka dollar denominated po. 03:01:04.690 --> 03:01:29.620 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At meron pong nakalagay dyan. I would like to direct your attention to the third column and bottom part. I'll read it aloud. Quote. FX rate used for the single pay premium of $100,000 is peso 50.34 as of September 23, 2021 based on BAP. Ano po ang kwento ng column na ito? 03:01:30.160 --> 03:01:40.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po ay dollar denominated insurance account na binayaran po ng one time 100,000. Ito po ay binayaran actually using e-pay. 03:01:44.010 --> 03:01:54.930 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Using electronically stored monetary values, pwede po itong ma-store in pesos and US dollars. Sa pagkakataon po ito, US dollar po yung pinambayad po. 03:01:55.370 --> 03:01:59.810 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So, para lang po sa mga nanonood, para itong GCash pero naka-dollar po? 03:02:00.050 --> 03:02:00.450 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:02:00.750 --> 03:02:01.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. 03:02:04.230 --> 03:02:08.530 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, this table says undeclared insurance. Undeclared po saan yan? 03:02:09.190 --> 03:02:10.570 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Undeclared po sa SALN po. 03:02:11.520 --> 03:02:24.740 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: More or less, sir. Ilan mga insurance policy ang binili ni VP Sara at ng kanyang asawa na ayon sa inyong pag-iimbestiga ay hindi dineklara sa SALN ni Vice President Sara Duterte. 03:02:24.740 --> 03:02:25.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Mga 03:02:25.500 --> 03:02:27.380 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 17 mga insurance policies. 03:02:28.750 --> 03:02:55.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, kanina nabanggit ninyo na, well, before I get to that, earlier you mentioned insurance and investment, you mentioned real properties. I understand you also mentioned the corporate interests or business interests of the couple as part of other personal and real properties. What other personal properties, if any, were part of that column that we are showing? 03:02:56.050 --> 03:03:03.190 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, kasama po dito ang firearms po, ang makasaysayang barel. 03:03:05.330 --> 03:03:12.530 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. May I manifest, Your Honor, that this is page 9 of the report of Attorney Cabrera. 03:03:14.310 --> 03:03:14.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: You 03:03:15.030 --> 03:03:21.010 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: also mentioned earlier that part of the third column are real properties. 03:03:22.770 --> 03:03:24.690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Chel, kakampi niyo na yan, ha? 03:03:28.750 --> 03:03:33.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could we kindly show again table 39, Your Honor? Tech booth, please. 03:03:40.160 --> 03:03:46.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. So we're now at the third column, total, undeclared, other, personal, and real properties. 03:03:48.930 --> 03:03:53.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yung pagdating po sa real properties, ano naman ang kwento dito? 03:03:54.520 --> 03:04:17.350 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung real properties po, sinama ko po sa report yung discussion po ng Matina Crossing Property na talakay na po sa, dito po sa proceedings po na ito. Pero hindi ko po sinama sa sa amounts po. Kaya ako po hindi sinama sa amount eh. Gusto ko po maging conservative. 03:04:18.990 --> 03:04:30.830 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dahil yung Matina Crossing po ay may mga several amounts involved. 10 million po yung naka-declare sa SALN. 6 million yung naka-declare sa deed of sale. Ginamit na mortgage at naka- 03:04:30.830 --> 03:05:48.640 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: ang dineclare na amount sa loan application ay 16.5 million. Pero ang kinuha pong loan, para po makuha yung loan na 8 million. At medyo matagal pong pinag-usapan po dito. Sa madaling salita, hindi ko na lang po sinama. Tutal hindi naman po masyado makaka-apekto po sa report. Pero meron po kaming sinama sa real properties na galing po sa financial statement na finial po ni VP Sara at ang kanyang asawa. Doon po sa financial statement po na finial nila noong 2025, nag-appear po doon ng property, plant, and equipment addition. 45 million po na sabi nilang hindi po nila na-declare noong 2024. Pero tinanggal na po rin namin lahat po ng additions sa real property noong 2024 at 2025 po. Sa madaling salita, wala po kaming in-add po dito na nagdu-duplicate po ng Any kind of addition nila po sa real property na dineclare po nila sa SALN. Kahit galing po o hindi doon sa financial statement, binawas na lang po namin for conservatism po. So kasama po dito mga 25 million po after reducing po kung ano man po yun na i-declare sa SALN. 03:05:49.060 --> 03:06:39.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor, in accordance with the ruling of the court, I will no longer show the financial statements for 2024 and 2025 of the spouses. Sara Zimmerman Duterte, and Manases Carpio. But may I just manifest that these are marked as the following exhibits. For the 2024 financial statement, this is Exhibit P-R2-3-2-4-17-BIR. And for the 2025 financial statement, this has been marked as Exhibit P-2-3-2-4-18. dash BIR. Also, just to make it clear in the record, earlier, I will go back to this point later. 03:06:41.000 --> 03:06:41.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May 03:06:42.100 --> 03:06:45.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I 03:06:45.630 --> 03:06:49.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: request the table 20 of the report of Atty. Cabrera-Bichong. 03:06:56.580 --> 03:06:59.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman po ang pakizoom lang po ng kaunti? 03:07:03.050 --> 03:07:06.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano naman po ang kwento dito sa table 20? 03:07:08.010 --> 03:07:22.710 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Medyo na ikwento ko na po ito ng kanina po. Ito po yung schedule po ng property plant and equipment po na nakita po namin sa financial statements po nila supporting their individual income tax returns. 03:07:24.230 --> 03:07:34.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So dito po meron po mga PPE dito kasama po dito ang restaurant equipment and buildings po. 03:07:36.780 --> 03:07:40.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. Balik po tayo sa table 39. 03:07:45.850 --> 03:07:51.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, we are still on the third column, total undeclared other personal and real properties. 03:07:52.510 --> 03:07:53.110 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Focus 03:07:53.110 --> 03:08:06.820 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: naman po tayo sa interest in business or in corporations as you had mentioned earlier. Question, bakit niyo sinama ang business interest sa total undeclared other personal and real properties? 03:08:07.340 --> 03:08:11.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, ang business interest po ay personal property din po. 03:08:13.240 --> 03:08:14.540 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So dapat po siyang isama. 03:08:14.940 --> 03:08:19.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ano pong mga businesses ang tinutukoy po ninyo? 03:08:20.220 --> 03:08:44.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sinama po namin dyan lahat po nung naka-declare po sa kanila pong SALN. Kasi po dun po sa kanilang SALN naka-declare po yung business pero wala pong amount. So pinuntahan lang po namin yung financial statements, GIS tsaka financial statement para po ilift po yung mga equity po nila doon sa mga Businesses po na naka-declare po sa SALN. 03:08:44.570 --> 03:08:48.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What specific businesses are you referring to, sir? 03:08:50.070 --> 03:09:01.790 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama po dyan ang Metro City Chow at GenCorp po na kung saan po stakeholder po si VP Sara. At kay Mr. Mans Carpio yun naman po kasama po dyan ng Cale 88, 03:09:02.070 --> 03:09:08.470 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: yung kanya pong Mati Ice Company at marami pa pong maliliit na iba. 03:09:08.710 --> 03:09:18.370 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Well, focus po muna tayo sa Metro City Chow. Paano niyo kinumpute ang business interest ni Vice President Sara Duterte sa kumpanyang iyan? 03:09:18.790 --> 03:09:42.160 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung Metro City Chow po kasi meron po nakadeclare na equity po si BP Sara sa general information sheet. 20% po yung nakalagay doon. So inapply po namin yun sa nakadeclare po na equity ng Metro City Chow sa financial statements. Yun po yung ginamit namin. amount po ng kanyang investment. 03:09:43.010 --> 03:09:53.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Aside from what was declared in the document you just mentioned, what other documents, if any, did you see the 20% ownership, sir? 03:09:54.710 --> 03:10:01.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Apo, dun nga po sa general information sheet po na final po ng Metro City Chow sa SEC po. 03:10:01.710 --> 03:10:12.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Maliban po doon sa GIS, meron pa bang ibang document na may nakita kayong statement of the percentage owned by the vice president? 03:10:12.600 --> 03:10:15.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Parang dun lang po sa GIS po nakadeclare po yun. 03:10:16.000 --> 03:10:20.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. How about the SALN of the vice president? 03:10:22.070 --> 03:10:27.290 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nakadeclare po dun yung mga kumpanya pero hindi po nakadeclare po yung percentage of ownership. 03:10:27.290 --> 03:10:27.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: For 03:10:27.850 --> 03:10:29.610 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: which company are you referring to? 03:10:29.790 --> 03:10:30.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Metro City Chow po. 03:10:32.300 --> 03:10:43.030 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nakalagay lang po dun na siya po ay isang stockholder at director at incorporator. Pero hindi po nakalagay. 03:10:43.780 --> 03:11:08.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sandali po, Kaspara. I'm sure it's been a while that you've been sitting in the chair and I just want to be clear for the record. You have mentioned three corporations. Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, GenCorp Industries, and according to you, those two are business interests of the Vice President. You've also mentioned 03:11:09.960 --> 03:11:13.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Cale88, that according to you is owned 03:11:13.400 --> 03:11:14.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: by 03:11:14.060 --> 03:11:36.150 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Atty. Manases Carpio. Balikan po natin yung nakalagay, first to establish this, nakita, if I were to show you the SALN of the Vice President for those, the years, the relevant years, 2022 to 2025, makikilala nyo naman kung... 03:11:36.150 --> 03:11:37.520 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 03:11:37.520 --> 03:11:49.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. Your Honour, please, I would have to request a short break just so that we can get that on the screen. Because I'd just like to make sure that we are moving forward in a clear manner. 03:11:53.680 --> 03:11:58.950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May kopya tayo sa Excel, no? How many minutes do you need, Honourable Chel? 03:11:59.410 --> 03:12:04.530 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just about 2 to 3 minutes, Your Honour. They just have to pull it out of the Excel file. 03:12:05.130 --> 03:12:09.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then, Chairman, no longer declare recess. Let's just sit it out. 03:12:30.830 --> 03:12:33.430 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May marking tayo niyan. Anong marking? 03:12:35.080 --> 03:12:36.100 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can I see first? 03:12:41.000 --> 03:12:42.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honors, please. 03:12:42.200 --> 03:12:44.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Honorable Chel. 03:12:44.140 --> 03:13:38.120 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, I have the hard copies of the SALNs of the Vice President for the year 2020. As of December 31, 2022, this has been marked as Exhibit P-2-1-1-O-P-1. And for... The next SALN as of December 31, 2023 marked as Exhibit P-2-1-1-P-P-1. For the SALN as of December 31, 2024, Exhibit P-2-1-1-P-P-1. And for as of December 31, 2025, Exhibit P-2-1-1-R-P-1 03:13:38.340 --> 03:13:43.780 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I request the assisting counsel to show this to the witness? 03:13:49.940 --> 03:13:51.060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 03:13:54.420 --> 03:14:24.340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We would like to object on the presentation of the table because it is a conclusion of fact, Your Honor, that something that has not been proven yet before this honorable court, not only a conclusion of fact but also of law, so that might mislead the public, Your Honor, and take those amounts and declarations as fact, yes, as well as the heading and the title, Your Honor. 03:14:25.260 --> 03:14:42.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If at all it will be taken down, only because it is not part of the questions I presume that the Honorable Diokno will propound, but if it is part of the report of the witness, we will allow it. But in the meantime, Honorable Diokno, you're referring to a different matter now, correct? 03:14:42.920 --> 03:14:46.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. May I request the tech booth to take down first table 39? 03:14:47.260 --> 03:14:47.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. 03:14:48.580 --> 03:15:06.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Now, Attorney Cabrera, could you kindly look at the first Statement of Assets, Liabilities, and Net Worth. That is before you. And I would direct your attention to the portion that states the names Metro City Chow Foods Corporation. 03:15:16.260 --> 03:15:21.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, what was declared in the SALN of Vice President Sara Duterte? 03:15:21.400 --> 03:15:43.510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Diokno, if I remember, we were concerned about the tax records and some AMLC records. But as long as the SALN is redacted insofar as the names of the minors, signature, the typical redaction of a SALN are redacted so that the senator judges can follow. 03:15:45.850 --> 03:15:53.890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But are you sure that the names of the minors, if any, the addresses are redacted in the copy that you will show, if at all? 03:15:54.210 --> 03:15:58.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just to be sure, if you're honest, please, may I just request a minute or two to make sure? 03:16:00.460 --> 03:16:01.460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Without declaring a 03:16:01.460 --> 03:16:09.530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: recess, again, you may make sure while the witness is perusing the actual SALNs. 03:16:09.610 --> 03:16:16.570 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor, please. We need a little time to do the redactions so that there will be no objections on the part of the... 03:16:16.570 --> 03:16:16.710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then you 03:16:16.710 --> 03:16:21.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may proceed while they're doing it. And hopefully, you will be able to catch up at some point. 03:16:22.770 --> 03:16:23.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. 03:16:26.530 --> 03:16:29.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Would you recall the question, sir? 03:16:31.050 --> 03:16:49.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yes, you were asking me, Counselor Chel, to look at the business interest portion in the SALN. And, well, actually, in that portion, you were asking me about Metro City Chow declaration. 03:16:51.580 --> 03:17:09.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So, as I recall, it's correct, there's no percentage of ownership declared. But Metro Chau has been declared as a business interest where BP Sara indicated herself as incorporator and stockholder since 2007. 03:17:10.040 --> 03:17:14.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly look at the next SALN for the year 2023? 03:17:17.270 --> 03:17:19.550 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And I have the same question for you sir. 03:17:27.910 --> 03:17:31.860 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yes, the same observation, Councilor Shin. 03:17:33.770 --> 03:17:41.400 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Metro City Chow has been declared and she mentioned herself as incorporator and stockholder since 2007. 03:17:53.520 --> 03:18:09.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay. Now, you mentioned earlier that in the GIS for Metro City Chow, you noticed that there was 20% allocated to the Vice President as her share of the company. Is that right? 03:18:09.300 --> 03:18:09.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: That's right po. 03:18:10.520 --> 03:18:17.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. And paki-explain nga po kung paano niyo na-compute ngayon yung kanyang business interest sa Metro City Chow? 03:18:18.700 --> 03:18:28.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: It's indicated in the GIS, 20%, so 20% times the equity po appearing in the financial statements of Metro City Chow. 03:18:28.200 --> 03:18:35.380 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, sir. Malinaw na po yan. Ngayon, let's move on and talk about the other corporation you mentioned, GenCorp Industries. 03:18:36.900 --> 03:18:44.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What did you see, if anything, in the records about the ownership of Vice President Sara and GenCorp? 03:18:44.890 --> 03:19:09.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: In the general information, in the SALN po of BP Sara, in her sworn SALN, GenCorp is indicated as a, she indicated that she's a stockholder of GenCorp. However, in the general information sheet filed by GenCorp with the SEC, there is no ownership of BP Sara appearing in that GIS. 03:19:10.010 --> 03:19:20.310 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So paano niyo ngayon na-compute yung kanyang business interest sa GenCorp kung wala nga po sa GIS at hindi rin naka-indicate yung percentage sa kanyang SALN? 03:19:20.310 --> 03:19:20.810 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, 03:19:20.850 --> 03:19:52.070 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: una po, sinabi niya po na stockholder po siya sa GenCorp sa kanyang sworn SALN. So kung stockholder po siya sa GenCorp based po sa kanyang sworn SALN, Ang ibig sabihin po nun ay isa o dalawa o mga ilan sa stockholders sa GenCorp as declared in the GIS ay para pong representative lamang niya o inahawakan po yung shares para sa kanya. 03:19:53.340 --> 03:19:58.740 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And what figure, if any, did you use in arriving at the computation? 03:19:59.140 --> 03:20:09.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dito po sa GenCorp, 20% po yung ginamit naming figure. At sa tingin po namin yung 20% po na yun ay conservative figure po. 03:20:09.880 --> 03:20:14.160 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit po nyo ginamit ang figure na 20% para sa GenCorp industries? 03:20:14.740 --> 03:20:53.810 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Marami pong kadahilanan. Yung una po sa accounting po. Since diniclare niya po na stockholder po siya ng GenCorp, ang ibig pong sabihin nun ay Mahalaga po sa kanya ito. Ang ibig sabihin kung one share lang po hindi niya po i-declare doon o kung immaterial po hindi niya po i-declare doon. Ang 20% po yan po yung benchmark po sa accounting ng tinatawag pong significant influence. At consistent din po ito sa rule ng SEC, memorandum number 15 kung saan po ang sinasabi po sa 03:20:55.560 --> 03:21:19.280 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Grade A po insofar as ownership is concerned na pagka 20% po dapat pong i-report as a beneficial owner po ang tao pagka meron siyang 20% ownership po dun sa company. Pero yung pangatlong reason po, kinopia po namin yung ownership niya po sa Metro City Chow na 20%. 03:21:19.280 --> 03:21:20.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ibig 03:21:20.440 --> 03:21:25.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: sabihin po, kinamparan ninyo. Ang shareholders ng Metro City Chow at GenCorp. 03:21:25.790 --> 03:21:27.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama po yun sa ginawa namin. 03:21:27.830 --> 03:21:29.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sinama po ba ninyo ito sa inyong report? 03:21:30.090 --> 03:21:30.750 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Apo. 03:21:30.750 --> 03:21:31.310 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: You 03:21:31.310 --> 03:21:33.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: have a comparison table in your report. 03:21:33.450 --> 03:21:33.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po. 03:21:34.430 --> 03:21:37.410 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin ang table 26 kung maaari. 03:21:42.390 --> 03:21:43.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakizoom nga po, please. 03:21:50.230 --> 03:21:54.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sino-sino po yung nakita nyo mga shareholders ng Metro City Chow? 03:21:56.210 --> 03:21:58.930 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Maaari po sanang konti pang zoom. Konti na lang po. 03:22:07.590 --> 03:22:31.690 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So yung Metro City Chao po, Jaime T. Cruz na 79.88%, halos 80%. Sarah Z. Duterte, 20%. Richie Yvette L. Cruz, 0.04%. Kimberly Justine E. Cruz, 0.04%. Girly S. De La Cruz, 0.04%. 03:22:31.690 --> 03:22:33.150 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kindly 03:22:33.150 --> 03:22:37.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: show the right column. Please continue sir if you want to add something. 03:23:03.000 --> 03:23:05.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Halos 80-20 po sila sa kumpanya na to. 03:23:05.740 --> 03:23:14.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa kabilang column naman po, nandyan ang mga shareholders ng GenCorp Industries. Could you kindly read the names of the shareholders? 03:23:14.740 --> 03:23:30.920 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, ito po ang JTC Group of Companies na may 54.99% po. Jaime T. Cruz na 0.01% po na obviously one share to be a director. Richie Yvette L. Cruz na 20% po. 03:23:32.870 --> 03:23:41.890 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kimberly Justin E. Cruz na may 15% po, Gurly S. Dela Cruz na may 5% po, at Nathan Zachary L. Cruz na may 5% po. 03:23:41.890 --> 03:23:42.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could 03:23:42.270 --> 03:23:48.930 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you please zoom out so that we can see both columns? Request to the tech booth. Medyo lakihan lang po ng kaunti. 03:23:56.980 --> 03:24:06.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Familiar po ba kayo, sir, sa term na interlocking shareholders or directors? Apo. Pakipaliwanag niyo po anong ibig sabihin nun? 03:24:07.140 --> 03:24:10.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Interlocking directors po, dalawang kumpanya po na may mga pareho pong directors. 03:24:11.630 --> 03:24:19.410 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At in relation to the column that is being shown, could you please explain how that term applies if ever it does? 03:24:19.790 --> 03:24:31.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, dito po sa dalawang kumpanya pong ito, lahat po ng directors dito ay interlocking po except for one person po na Cruz din po, si Nathan Zachary L. Cruz. 03:24:34.410 --> 03:24:45.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So essentially po interlocking directors kasi yung JTC group of companies po pag-aari naman po ni Jaime T. Cruz at siya po nandito rin po si Jaime T. Cruz as a director po. 03:24:46.380 --> 03:24:57.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa left column sabi ninyo essentially the ownership is because there are nominal stockholders is basically rounded up 80% and 20%. Tama 03:24:57.560 --> 03:24:57.780 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: po. 03:24:57.840 --> 03:25:00.320 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How about in the right column for GenCorp? 03:25:04.460 --> 03:25:12.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Alos 55% po si JTC Group of Companies. So yung 45% po ay nakakalat po dito sa ibang mga crews po. 03:25:12.780 --> 03:25:19.880 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So babalikan ko po yung aking tanong. How did you arrive at 20% as VP Sara's share of GenCorp? 03:25:20.760 --> 03:25:59.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Unang-unang babalikan ko rin po yung sinabi ko po na kung owner ka ng GenCorp at wala yung pangalan mo sa GIS, baka yung iba pong mga pangalan sa GIS ay... representative or nominismo. Kung titignan niyo po yung Metro City Chow, 80-20 po. Ang isa pong paraan ng pagbasa po ng GenCorp ay 55-45. Yung 45 po, yung po yung the rest po, sino Richie, Kimberly, Gurley, at Nathan. Pero yung 45 po, naging conservative po kami, ang ginamit po namin 20%. 03:26:01.210 --> 03:26:33.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Batay po dun sa mga nabanggit ko po ng mga accounting rules at SEC rules by implication po. Pero kung titignan po natin yung schedule na to, parang si Richie Yvette Cruz po yung na dati pong nominal lang po yung share niya sa Metro City Chow. Tapos pagdating po ng GenCorp Industries, naging 20% po. So kung kukopyohin po natin yung pag-aari po ni BP Sara sa Metro City Chow, Maari pong hawak po ni Richie Yvette L. Cruz po yung 20% po ni VP Sara. 03:26:34.060 --> 03:26:41.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: How would you describe the 20% that you ascribe to VP Sara's interest? Would that be on the high side or the low side? 03:26:42.080 --> 03:26:57.420 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Para sa akin po, yung po ay nasa low side. Yung high side po ay 45%. So sa Metro City Chow po ay 80-20. At sa Gent Corp po ang tingin ko po ay Jaime T. Cruz 55% at VP Sara 45%. 03:26:58.540 --> 03:27:12.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And nabanggit natin kanina na for GenCorp wala ang pangalan ni VP Sara sa GIS. In your professional opinion, why did GenCorp not include VP Sara in their GIS? 03:27:14.100 --> 03:27:46.010 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Napanood ko po yung hearing po nung isang linggo nung nag-testify po si Mayor Bastie po ng City of Davao. At sinabi niya po na may kontrata po ang GenCorp doon ng labing Labing lima o naging labing siyam po yata. Kung si VP Sara po ay nakapangalan po sa GIS ng GENCorp, hindi po pwedeng makakuha ng kontrata ang GENCorp po sa City of Davao. Bawal po yun, conflict of interest po. 03:27:47.230 --> 03:27:53.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Nabanggit din natin kanina na nakalagay 03:27:56.240 --> 03:28:01.730 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: po sa SALN ni VP Sara na meron siyang call down. 03:28:06.280 --> 03:28:16.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: On the other hand, I would like to ask you, in your professional opinion, why did VP Sara include GenCorp in her SALN if it was not in the GIS? 03:28:17.340 --> 03:28:20.260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Before the 03:28:20.260 --> 03:28:20.960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: witness answers. 03:28:21.680 --> 03:28:23.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Kristine? 03:28:23.960 --> 03:28:36.660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It calls for an opinion, Your Honor, and that the witness is incompetent, Your Honor, to answer that question. Because it goes into the state of mind of VP Sara, Your Honor. 03:28:38.420 --> 03:28:39.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Chel? 03:28:39.760 --> 03:28:51.680 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor, that's precisely why we are presenting this witness and given his extensive background, I believe he would be in a position to make that opinion, subject of course to cross-examination by the defense. 03:28:51.680 --> 03:28:51.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He 03:28:51.840 --> 03:28:54.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was presented as an expert and may express his opinion. 03:28:56.100 --> 03:28:58.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Kristine, the objection is overruled. Witness may answer. 03:29:00.060 --> 03:29:01.980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Our continuing objection and that, Your Honor. 03:29:02.160 --> 03:29:31.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So noted. With the understanding that the opinion of the witness does not in any way bind the court and subject to how much weight each senator-judge will give to the statements that Attorney Alex will be giving. By the way, Attorney Alex, I note that you call the Honorable Diokno always counselor. In the United States, perhaps, Yes, he would be a counselor given that he's 03:29:31.240 --> 03:29:39.080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: a lawyer. Pero dito po kasi pag tinawag niyo siyang counselor, konsehal po yun eh. Ay, mali po. 03:29:39.780 --> 03:29:41.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Senator siya. Ay, mali po. 03:29:41.360 --> 03:29:44.740 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay lang po sa akin yun, Your Honor, kung konsihal lang po tayo. 03:29:45.900 --> 03:29:52.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may refer him to, refer to him as either attorney or the honorable judge, no? For the record. You may continue, Hon. Diokno. 03:29:52.180 --> 03:29:52.360 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If 03:29:52.360 --> 03:29:58.960 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I may repeat the question, Your Honor. In your professional opinion, why did BP SARA include GENCORP in her SALN? 03:30:00.000 --> 03:30:13.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: The reason why I think Bipisara included GenCorp in her SALN is napaka halaga po kasi ng GenCorp. Malaki po ang value ng GenCorp. 03:30:13.390 --> 03:30:13.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit 03:30:13.970 --> 03:30:16.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: niyo sinasabing malaki ang value ng GenCorp? 03:30:16.430 --> 03:30:20.670 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasi po sa loob po ng GenCorp, meron pong limang Jollibee branches po. 03:30:21.270 --> 03:30:29.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po ang naging basehan ninyo para sabihin na merong limang Jollibee branches sa loob ng GenCorp Industries Inc.? 03:30:29.980 --> 03:30:46.800 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama po sa mga nakuha po naming dokumento galing po sa prosecution ay official receipts po kung saan po ang official receipts po ito ay nagpapakita po ng purchases po sa Jollibee sa iba't ibang branches ng Jollibee na pag-aari po ng GenCorp. 03:30:47.380 --> 03:30:52.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin ang mga resibo naka-attach po ito sa report bilang Annex C. 03:30:55.070 --> 03:31:00.170 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, Your Honor, we will mark these documents later on together with the other documents, if I may. 03:31:03.150 --> 03:31:16.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's begin with the receipts appearing on the left side of what is being shown on the screen. Could you request the tech booth to make that a little bit larger so we can read? 03:31:19.180 --> 03:31:19.940 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakibasa na 03:31:19.940 --> 03:31:24.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: po, Atty. Cabrera, yung nakalagay po diyan, the relevant portion. 03:31:24.880 --> 03:31:37.380 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung resibo po sa Jollibee Center Point Plaza, Matina Crossing Branch. na nasa pangalan po ng GenCorp. So, isa po'y isa sa branches po. 03:31:37.970 --> 03:31:52.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: For the record, witness is referring to the top portion of the receipt that is being shown on the screen. You are, just to be clear, Mr. Witness, you're referring to the receipt on the left, on the right, or both? 03:31:52.930 --> 03:31:58.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Both receipts po are for this branch po, Matina Crossing branch po. 03:31:58.390 --> 03:32:06.070 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay, could you kindly show the other receipts that succeed? These receipts now showing. Ano naman po yan? 03:32:06.390 --> 03:32:14.210 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung resibo po ng Jollibee po sa Gaysano Mall na nasa pangalin din po ng GenCorp. So ito po yung pangalawa. 03:32:15.740 --> 03:32:20.720 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kindly show to the tech booth the next receipt. Ano naman po yan? 03:32:20.980 --> 03:32:26.360 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito naman po yung resibo po ng Jollibee sa Abresa Mall po. So ito po yung pangatlo. 03:32:27.640 --> 03:32:29.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's show the next receipt please. 03:32:31.530 --> 03:32:37.950 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po ay resibo ng Jollibee po sa Times Square Plaza Corner po. Ito po yung pang-apat. 03:32:38.690 --> 03:32:42.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And the next receipt, please. Ano po yan? 03:32:44.340 --> 03:32:54.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung resibo na nasa Poblasyon District of Davao na Jollibee po. Nasa pangalan din po ng GenCorp. Ito po yung panlima. 03:32:55.800 --> 03:32:59.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. Balik po tayo sa third column ng Table 39. 03:33:02.830 --> 03:33:09.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May paliwanag na po natin yung nilalaman nitong column, undeclared other personal and real properties. 03:33:10.150 --> 03:33:14.870 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Parang hindi pa po napapaliwanag yung... 03:33:15.760 --> 03:33:19.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa third pa lang po tayo, hindi pa dun sa naka-red na naka-encircle. 03:33:19.500 --> 03:33:20.180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 03:33:22.200 --> 03:33:25.880 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: may we ask that the table be taken down first? 03:33:28.080 --> 03:33:29.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You're done with it, Honorable Shell? 03:33:30.060 --> 03:33:33.380 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: No, not yet, Your Honor. I was about to ask some questions about it. 03:33:33.580 --> 03:33:33.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 03:33:35.240 --> 03:33:39.360 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We are objecting to the presentation of that table, Your Honor. 03:33:39.560 --> 03:33:44.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's part of the findings and part of the table and summary and findings in the forensic report of the witness. 03:33:46.100 --> 03:34:03.670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor, we understand. But the caption is misleading, Your Honor, because it is actually a conclusion of fact. It declares the alleged undeclared assets and undeclared wealth of the VP and her spouse. 03:34:06.050 --> 03:34:23.930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Perhaps the title can be taken down or edited in a way that will reflect what really was in the report. Perhaps it can provide that this is findings of the forensic accountant and not reflected as such, Your Honor. 03:34:24.380 --> 03:34:25.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I be heard, Your Honor? 03:34:25.760 --> 03:34:26.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel. 03:34:26.940 --> 03:34:27.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm reading 03:34:27.240 --> 03:34:39.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: it too. The caption appears in the actual report. The caption also appears above this table. However, if the good counsel would prefer, we can just show the report itself. 03:34:41.470 --> 03:34:43.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pareho lang naman po ang laman po niyan. 03:34:44.050 --> 03:34:49.390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, the difference, counsel, is the phrase unexplained wealth. It's not... 03:34:51.760 --> 03:34:53.980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It can mislead the public. It's 03:34:53.980 --> 03:34:55.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not in the table, counsel. 03:34:56.610 --> 03:35:07.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. We will use the report itself. May I request that the tech booth show the actual report? We are referring to table 39 on page 37. 03:35:12.940 --> 03:35:15.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bago po tayo pumunta doon, Atty. Cabrera. 03:35:15.520 --> 03:35:15.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So the objection 03:35:15.940 --> 03:35:19.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is partly sustained. 03:35:19.900 --> 03:35:34.370 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit po mahalaga yung sinasabi niyong... Earlier, you said na mahalaga ang GenCorp Industries dahil meron po siyang limang Jollibee. Why do you say that that makes it a big company? 03:35:35.630 --> 03:36:41.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasi po yung isa pong Jollibee branch, nag-check lang po kami ng available information online. At ang isang Jollibee franchise po is between 35 million to 50 million. So ginamit lang po namin dito very conservative po yung 35 million. And sinabi ko po na conservative po siya kasi po pagka nagtatayo kayo ng isang store, Kailangan nyo rin po ng working capital. Pambayad sa crew, pambayad sa manager, pambayad sa rent, etc. Pambayad po ng mga kailangan po nating mga initial inventory. So yung franchise po or package po na 35, conservative po yun. Hindi po namin ginamit yung 50, 35 lamang po. So yung 35 na yun ay in-attribute po namin dun sa mga presyo po nung mga branch. Yun po dapat yung minimum capital na meron ang GenCorp. Subalit ang capital lang po ng GenCorp ay 1,250,000 po. 03:36:42.190 --> 03:37:22.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. Punta naman po tayo sa table 39. I'm showing to you what is actually in your report. which begins with the caption on top, aggregate amount of undeclared assets and unexplained wealth acquired during her vice presidency. We have discussed already the first column, we have discussed the second column, we are now on the third column, total undeclared other personal and real properties. Para matapos na po tayo sa diskusyon dyan, could you kindly, magkano po, my question is, magkano po ang total undeclared other personal and real properties ni Vice President Sara at ng kanyang asawa para sa taong 2023? 03:37:24.250 --> 03:37:29.150 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 76,147,730 pesos po. 03:37:29.330 --> 03:37:51.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'm sorry, I will repeat the question because I made a mistake in terms of the year. Ulitin ko lang po. Magkano po ang total undeclared other personal and real properties ni Vice President Sara Duterte? at ng kanyang asawa, I'm referring here to the third column, for the year 2022. 03:37:52.820 --> 03:38:03.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 76,147 76 million, I'm sorry po. 76,147,730 pesos. 3 million, sorry po. 03:38:03.440 --> 03:38:12.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At magkano po ang total undeclared other personal and real properties ni Vice President Sara Duterte at ng kanyang asawa para sa taong 2023? 03:38:13.160 --> 03:38:16.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 3,934,560 03:38:16.580 --> 03:38:25.820 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano po ang total undeclared other personal and real properties ni Vice President Sara Duterte at ng kanyang asawa for the year 2024? 03:38:26.600 --> 03:38:30.160 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 52,016,994 03:38:30.160 --> 03:38:31.080 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At 03:38:31.080 --> 03:38:39.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: magkano naman po ang total undeclared other personal and real properties ni Vice President Duterte at ng kanyang asawa for the year 2025? 03:38:40.860 --> 03:38:44.120 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 11,397,893 pesos po. 03:38:44.910 --> 03:38:58.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So far, we have taken up or discussed the columns under undeclared assets. Yung pong total undeclared cash, total undeclared other personal and real properties. Are 03:38:58.350 --> 03:38:59.810 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: you still okay, Atty. Cabrera? 03:38:59.830 --> 03:39:02.650 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Would you like to have the bathroom break? 03:39:02.650 --> 03:39:03.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Hindi po. Salamat po, 03:39:03.590 --> 03:39:04.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Honorable Chel. 03:39:05.630 --> 03:39:14.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's move on to the next few columns. that are under the category undeclared income. 03:39:17.990 --> 03:39:30.300 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakilaki po ulit itong table na ito. I'm referring here, Atty. Cabrera, to what is now the fourth column, total computed undeclared 03:39:30.300 --> 03:39:32.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: income of the couple. 03:39:32.680 --> 03:39:38.620 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Unang-una po, what's the difference between undeclared assets and undeclared income? 03:39:39.870 --> 03:40:14.760 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, yung undeclared assets po is as at a specific date. So parang yung SALN po kasi parang balance sheet po yan eh. So as at a certain date sa katapusan po ng taon. So balit hindi po nakakapture nung SALN po yung mga pumapasok po at lumalabas during the year. Kaya mahalaga po sa atin na tignan kung Magkano po yung inflows na pumasok po sa bank accounts po ni VP Sara nung taon na 2022 to 2025? 03:40:15.900 --> 03:40:27.120 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So para malinaw po yung napag-diskusyon na natin, total undeclared cash, total undeclared other personal and real properties, yan ang tinutukoy niyong undeclared assets. 03:40:27.660 --> 03:40:28.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:40:28.200 --> 03:40:36.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. Ngayon naman, let's go to total computed undeclared income. which is in the fourth column. Ano pong kwento nitong fourth column na ito? 03:40:37.530 --> 03:41:04.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, ito pong total computed undeclared income of the couple. Ito po ay referring po sa kanila pong mga bank accounts. So na yung pumasok po dito sa first section po sa SALN, ending balances po. Ang kinakapture naman po natin dito, yung mga inflows po sa kanila pong mga bank account at kinukumpere po natin yun sa kanila pong nadeklara. sa kanila pong income tax returns. 03:41:05.390 --> 03:41:13.170 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Paki-explain nga po ninyo, sabi nyo inflows at income. Could you explain what you mean by those terms? 03:41:13.970 --> 03:41:43.570 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, yung income po is flow of wealth from any source, legal or otherwise. So yung flow of wealth po na yun, makikita po natin din sa bank account inflows. Pero hindi po lahat ng inflow ay income. So ang ginawa po namin, in-eliminate po namin yung mga inflows po na sa tingin po namin ay hindi po nagre-represent po ng income. 03:41:44.210 --> 03:41:52.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Paano nyo nalaman? First of all, para malinaw po, pag sinabi nyo yung inflow sa bank account, yun po ba yung sa simpleng salita ay deposit? 03:41:53.590 --> 03:42:11.920 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. At ang aming pong... Sinunod ay ang batas po at ang kontrata po between the bank and the depositor. So pag pumasok po sa bank account po ni VP Sara or ng kanyang asawa, ang tingin po namin doon ay pag-aari po nila. 03:42:12.400 --> 03:42:21.300 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pero paano naman po kung let's say may dalawang account ang isang bank depositor at nilipat lang niya yung kanyang pera mula sa savings hanggang sa checking? 03:42:21.540 --> 03:42:33.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, isa po yun sa mga ineliminate po namin. So pag transfer lang po from savings to checking, hindi po namin binibilang na inflow po yung checking. Kasi yung total naman po nila ay pareho lang po. 03:42:34.140 --> 03:42:38.120 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: This discussion about income, did you include this in your report, sir? 03:42:38.380 --> 03:42:38.660 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 03:42:39.500 --> 03:42:44.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin ang page 16 ng report ni Atty. Cabrera. 03:42:46.670 --> 03:42:59.790 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you please zoom in first on the top portion? Yes, those paragraphs. Paragraph 1 and 2 lang po para mabasa po ng lahat. And the text on top of it, please. 03:43:05.370 --> 03:43:11.170 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ayan. Could you kindly read the second paragraph beginning with the words, deposits? 03:43:13.400 --> 03:44:00.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Deposits in the bank accounts are treated as income of the VP and her spouse for the following reasons. 1. Deposits made to a person's bank account are presumed to be owned by that person. 2. An owner of an account is generally free to enjoy, appropriate, or use the money that goes into such bank account. 3. Unless the deposits represent proceeds of loan, debt, or money held in trust, For a third party, maturing investments previously reported, or legitimate donations, or interbank transfers from the same account holder, then it is reasonable to assume such is income. The following transactions were excluded from the calculation of total inflows. 03:44:00.960 --> 03:44:04.780 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kindly show letters A to E of paragraph 3. 03:44:04.960 --> 03:44:05.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Please 03:44:06.650 --> 03:44:07.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: continue. 03:44:07.250 --> 03:44:07.690 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: The 03:44:07.690 --> 03:44:47.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: following transactions were excluded from the calculation of total inflows. Well, treated as income. A. PS Bank loan proceeds of 8 million. B. PS Bank or the redundant effects of rolling time deposits aggregating 102 million in inflows. C. BDO investment proceeds of 10.29 million. D. Security Bank, Insecurity Bank investment proceeds of 5 million. And E. BDO checking account, interbank transfers from savings to checking account of 72.18 million. 03:44:47.380 --> 03:44:55.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I'll stop you there, Atty. Cabrera. What do you mean by you excluded this from your calculation of total inflows? 03:44:56.160 --> 03:45:00.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ibig sabihin po hindi po namin ito kinonsider na income po ni PP Sara. 03:45:01.750 --> 03:45:09.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, meron din pong nakalagay dyan sa bandang ibaba. Could you kindly read that please? 03:45:09.810 --> 03:45:18.110 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Any income flow that is beyond what is declared in their combined income tax return can reasonably be treated as unexplained wealth. 03:45:18.390 --> 03:45:20.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, could you kindly explain that statement? 03:45:20.590 --> 03:45:20.790 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, 03:45:20.790 --> 03:45:35.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: binanggalang po namin yung total inflow na na-compute po namin against their individual income tax returns at kung ano man po yung sobra o difference, yung po yung undeclared or unexplained. 03:45:36.960 --> 03:45:37.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. 03:45:40.880 --> 03:45:42.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can we move please to table 23? 03:46:05.090 --> 03:46:07.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano po ang kwento dyan sa table 23? 03:46:09.170 --> 03:46:20.050 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang table 23 po ang nagpapakita po ng discrepancy po sa kanila pong diniclare sa kanilang ITR at yung na-identify po naming bank-inclosed representing income. 03:46:23.060 --> 03:46:28.320 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At saan po dito yung sinasabi niyong ITR amount? 03:46:28.320 --> 03:46:28.760 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito 03:46:28.760 --> 03:46:30.400 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: po yung nasa second column po. 03:46:30.910 --> 03:46:35.530 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: That begins with the words total declared income per ITR. 03:46:36.150 --> 03:46:36.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: So 03:46:36.750 --> 03:46:43.950 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: saan nyo naman nakuha yung mga halaga na nasa ilalim ng total declared income per ITR? 03:46:44.230 --> 03:46:48.130 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Sa income tax return po ng mag-asawa po. 03:46:48.370 --> 03:46:53.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And going to the third column, identified bank inflows. Ano naman po yan? 03:46:54.150 --> 03:46:59.410 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yan po yung inflows po sa iba't iba pong mga banko na nabanggit po natin kanina. 03:47:00.090 --> 03:47:00.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: na 03:47:00.230 --> 03:47:14.610 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: nasa pangalan po ni Bibisara, nasa pangalan po ng kanyang asawa, at joint bank accounts, at ito pong 888 Bistro. So, ito po yung mga inflows po dun sa mga banko pong yan. 03:47:14.850 --> 03:47:25.370 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly read the number appearing in the total column row for the second column, total declared income per ITR? 03:47:27.260 --> 03:47:31.820 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total declared income for ITR po? For 2022 po? 03:47:32.210 --> 03:47:37.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: For all years 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025. 03:47:38.530 --> 03:48:00.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total declared income per ITR, 2022, 9,601,770. For 2023, 16,920,708. For 2024, 15,210,548. For 2025, 21,373,860. 03:48:00.780 --> 03:48:02.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And the total, sir? 03:48:02.300 --> 03:48:05.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 63,106,886. 03:48:06.020 --> 03:48:07.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's move to the next column. 03:48:12.170 --> 03:48:17.830 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: You've already explained what that means. Could you read the amounts per year and at the end, the total? 03:48:18.580 --> 03:48:50.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: For 2022, the identified bank inflows amount to 60,076,281. For 2023, 29,118. 29,118,943. For 2024, 43,240,751. And for 2025, 42,523,260. For total of 174,959,235. 03:49:01.000 --> 03:49:01.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Na-compute na niya. 03:49:01.800 --> 03:49:02.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:49:02.560 --> 03:49:08.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And please read the calculated undeclared income for those years beginning with 2022. 03:49:09.220 --> 03:49:39.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. The calculated undeclared income for 2022 is 50,474,511 for 23, 12,198,235 for 24, 28,030,203. and for 25, 21,149,400 pesos po for a total of 111,852,349 pesos po. 03:49:40.640 --> 03:49:55.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Nabanggit niyo dyan ang pinagbasihan ninyo ay ang mga ITRs or income tax returns. Kasama o naka-attach po ba sa inyong report ang mismong mga ITR na mag-asawa noong mga taong 2022 to 2025? 03:49:56.220 --> 03:49:56.420 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Apo. 03:49:56.990 --> 03:50:03.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pati na rin po yung naka-attach din doon na AFS or Audited Financial Statements nito. 03:50:03.690 --> 03:50:04.250 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:50:06.070 --> 03:50:14.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ito ay sinubmit din ninyo sa hukumang ito. I'm referring to the ITR and the AFS bilang attachments sa inyong report sa USB po. 03:50:14.990 --> 03:50:15.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:50:15.630 --> 03:50:24.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. At yan ang naging basihan ng second column, ng mga columns dyan. Yung first column, I mean, could you kindly show? 03:50:29.440 --> 03:50:32.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Tech Booth, baka napagod na rin ng Tech Booth. 03:50:41.190 --> 03:50:45.730 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And that was the basis for your arriving at the amounts in the first column. 03:50:46.250 --> 03:50:46.970 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 03:50:47.110 --> 03:50:47.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. 03:50:50.290 --> 03:51:01.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay. Your Honor, may I just be allowed to take a breath first? Medyo matagal na po tayo dito. I'll just refer to some notes before 03:51:01.030 --> 03:51:01.470 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I proceed. 03:51:01.470 --> 03:51:04.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Lacson is recognized. What is your 03:51:04.450 --> 03:51:05.230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pleasure, sir? 03:51:05.230 --> 03:51:37.480 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Just to put things in perspective, Mr. Presiding Officer, and I say this with utmost respect for the witness and his credentials. Lahat po nang ating nakikita, malinaw naman po sa isip namin na opinion. And hindi naman po namin ito tinatanggap as gospel truth. In fact, mamaya sa cross, kapag nabutasan niyo yung kanyang opinion, yung kanyang testimony, magsasuffer po yung kanyang credibility. 03:52:00.280 --> 03:52:00.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 03:52:01.750 --> 03:52:02.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: remarks 03:52:02.450 --> 03:52:02.790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: of 03:52:02.790 --> 03:53:42.610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the good gentleman is duly noted. For the record, for the information of the senator judges too, you can sit down, Honorable Diokno, so that you can take a breath and look at your notes while we're going through this process. This will be counted against your five minutes. The court would like to place and spread into the records Rule 133, Section 5. Weight to be given opinion of expert witness. How determined? I'm reading it verbatim. "In any case where the opinion of an expert witness is received in evidence, the court has a wide latitude of discretion in determining the weight to be given to such opinion, and for that purpose may consider the following." This also applies of course to the forensic expert that the respondents will present. "A. Whether the opinion is based upon sufficient facts or data. B. Whether the product of reliable whether it is the product of reliable principles and methods, C, whether the witness has applied the principles and methods reliably to the facts of the case, and D, such other factors as the court may deem helpful to make such determinations." So the chair confirms the statement made by the Hon. Lacson that it is not conclusive, it is not binding, and it is up to each senator-judge to give the accorded weight they want to give to the expert's opinion, whether it be the expert of the prosecution or the expert to be presented by the respondent. 03:53:44.650 --> 03:53:45.890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Chel, you ready? 03:53:46.150 --> 03:53:46.810 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. 03:53:47.050 --> 03:53:47.830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, sir. 03:53:49.080 --> 03:54:05.610 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bago po tayo pumunta sa next column ng Table 23, I just have a few more questions on the fourth column. Atty. Alex, in the course of your examination of the bank records of the couple, Sara Zimmerman Duterte and Manases Carpio. 03:54:06.550 --> 03:54:10.150 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What unusual banking behaviors, if any, 03:54:10.310 --> 03:54:11.690 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: did you observe? 03:54:16.540 --> 03:54:27.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Una po yung sa BDO checks po na nakuha po namin. Redacted po lahat ng mga payees po doon po sa BDO checks po. 03:54:28.240 --> 03:54:36.410 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's go to that first. Isinama niyo ba itong sinasabi niyong Redacted BDO checks. Diniscuss niyo ito sa inyong report? 03:54:37.330 --> 03:54:38.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Honorable Chel. 03:54:39.640 --> 03:54:43.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's show please page 18 of the report and 03:54:45.180 --> 03:54:49.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: ask that the text be zoomed a bit so we can read it. 03:54:53.940 --> 03:54:55.940 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakita lang po ang, yan. 03:54:58.180 --> 03:55:01.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kindly zoom into what is there as number 2. 03:55:10.390 --> 03:55:16.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay. Una kong tanong, Atty. Cabrera, sabi niyo redacted ang mga 03:55:31.310 --> 03:55:31.870 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: With 03:55:33.500 --> 03:55:50.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: the permission of the Honorable Court, I would like to show the redacted checks, if that is okay with the Presiding Officer. This has been marked as Exhibit P-2-8. dash 1, dash 3, dash 2, dash 3, dash 1, dash PDO. 03:55:50.700 --> 03:55:52.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so. 03:55:53.940 --> 03:56:00.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could we ask the tech booth please to show the exhibit that I just described? 03:56:10.210 --> 03:56:14.650 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakizoom lang po para makita natin lahat itong... 03:56:17.120 --> 03:56:21.300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, before the exhibits will be flashed... 03:56:21.300 --> 03:56:22.520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can you take it down for a while? 03:56:23.860 --> 03:56:28.780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: May we know what's the purpose of flashing those documents, Your Honor? 03:56:28.780 --> 03:56:32.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To show that they can still see through the supposedly redacted portion. 03:56:32.800 --> 03:56:33.060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And 03:56:33.060 --> 03:56:41.920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the heading, Your Honor, yes. And the heading, Your Honor, appears to be, not really appears, it is a conclusion of fact, Your Honor. It says questionable banking behaviors. 03:56:43.600 --> 03:56:44.080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I 03:56:44.080 --> 03:56:58.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: haven't seen that portion. I was focused on the redacted portion. Is that part of the tables and charts of the witness, Honorable Jackman? 03:56:58.450 --> 03:56:59.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: It is in the report, Your Honor. 03:57:00.550 --> 03:57:01.610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is in the report. 03:57:01.990 --> 03:57:06.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Page 17, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sorry, page 18, Your Honor. 03:57:08.060 --> 03:57:10.720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We cannot see it in the report, Your Honor. 03:57:13.580 --> 03:57:21.100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, no, there's no heading showing questionable banking behaviors under table 24. 03:57:23.370 --> 03:57:38.950 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I just correct myself, Your Honor? I'm referring to page 17, which states at the middle portion, Furthermore, this report identified certain banking behaviors that may warrant further review and investigation. This includes, and so on. 03:57:39.290 --> 03:57:42.530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Precisely, Your Honor, the report, the 03:57:44.110 --> 03:57:48.150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: tabulation flashed is not an accurate depiction of the report, Your Honor. 03:57:48.330 --> 03:57:57.950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyway, it's the heading, Honorable Diokno. I think you made your point already with respect to the redacted portion still being able to, the witness still being able to decipher through the redacted portion. 03:57:58.670 --> 03:58:00.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No need to flash 03:58:00.030 --> 03:58:01.530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the names nor the redacted checks. 03:58:02.610 --> 03:58:05.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes. Can we go back please to page 18 of the report? 03:58:10.810 --> 03:58:11.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Paragraph 2. 03:58:17.670 --> 03:58:24.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sabi ninyo kanina na kahit redacted po ay nakita rin po ninyo yung mga pangalan. 03:58:25.130 --> 03:58:27.990 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Now, I'd like to direct your attention to 03:58:27.990 --> 03:58:39.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: paragraph 2a on page 18 of the report. What do you know about the person whose name appears in paragraph 2a, if anything? 03:58:40.980 --> 03:58:59.070 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. Si Ms. Lourdes La- Lebosada po ay ito po yung partner po ni Atty. Man Carpio po sa kanya pong business na Cale88. At 47.5% po yung kanilang ownership sa Cale88. 03:58:59.650 --> 03:59:05.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What else if anything do you know about Lourdes Lebosada? 03:59:05.590 --> 03:59:13.090 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Si Lourdes Lebosada rin po ang... Family dentist or at least po dentista po ni VP Sara po. 03:59:13.450 --> 03:59:15.570 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What is your basis for saying that sir? 03:59:16.810 --> 03:59:30.630 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po kaming nakitang Facebook post po ng Lebosada Clinic po kung saan po magkasama po si Dr. Lebosada at si VP Sara po. 03:59:31.180 --> 03:59:42.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor, the Facebook post mentioned by the witness appears as Annex A of the report, but before I show it on the screen, I would like to seek the permission of the Honorable Court. 03:59:46.700 --> 03:59:47.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Annex A? 03:59:48.230 --> 03:59:48.930 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. 03:59:48.990 --> 03:59:49.070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's 03:59:49.070 --> 03:59:49.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: a picture. 03:59:49.850 --> 03:59:50.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, 03:59:50.350 --> 03:59:50.570 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor. 03:59:50.890 --> 03:59:51.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, of course, I mean. 03:59:57.260 --> 03:59:59.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This might even be on the internet. 04:00:02.280 --> 04:00:07.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ayan po ba yung tinutukoy niyo na na-describe niyo just now, sir? 04:00:08.800 --> 04:00:10.000 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Honorable Shell. 04:00:12.320 --> 04:00:27.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. Now, let's go back to page 18 of the report. My question to you is, magkano po lahat-lahat ang mga chekeng nakita niyo na ibinayad kay Lourdes Lebosada? 04:00:27.680 --> 04:00:38.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang total po ng chekeng na binayad po kay Ms. Lourdes Lebosada ay 11.35 million na sa palagay ko po ay hindi po yan bayad sa pasta. 04:00:57.140 --> 04:01:02.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: additions to the answer he will give to the questions propounded by counsel. 04:01:02.820 --> 04:01:04.880 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: My sincere apologies, presiding officer. 04:01:06.140 --> 04:01:24.800 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Mr. Witness, kaugnay nitong paragraph 2, in particular, letter F of page 18 of your report kung saan nakalagay, and I quote, pay to the order of cash 23 million pesos. Ano nakita ninyong kakaibang bank behavior kung meron man? 04:01:25.960 --> 04:01:32.460 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito pong pay to the order of cash na 23 million. Meron po itong kasabay na transaction po eh. 04:01:34.150 --> 04:02:00.170 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So ito po ay may kasabay pong transaction. Total po ng transaction na ito, yung withdrawal po during that day ay 41 million po from BDO and from PNB. Ang kakaiba po dito, nangyari po lahat yung withdrawal po, encashment and withdrawal po na 41 million. Lahat po sa isang araw at halos na sa isang oras lang po. 04:02:01.540 --> 04:02:12.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ito bang sinasabi niyong naging basihan ng nabanggit ninyo? The source documents, are they also included in your report or attached? 04:02:12.920 --> 04:02:14.280 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yes, Honorable Shell. 04:02:14.640 --> 04:02:17.920 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And what are those source documents if you can recall? 04:02:19.100 --> 04:02:25.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung yung pong ano cheque po na pay to cash at yung pong mga withdrawal slips po. 04:02:25.760 --> 04:03:11.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just for the record, Your Honor, the checks have already been marked as exhibits P-2-8-1-3-2-3-1-BDO, page 216. P-2-8-1-3-2-3-1-BDO, page 217. The withdrawal slips are also marked. as exhibits p-2-8-7-3-3-1-PNB pages 185 to 188. Now, based on your professional experience sir, why did you say in your report that these transactions should be further investigated? 04:03:12.910 --> 04:03:49.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dahil po masyadong malalaki po yung withdrawal in cash, 41 million po medyo Hindi po normal po na withdrawal po yun. Normally ang gagawin po ng tao, magpapaisyo po sila ng manager's check kung malaki po yung i-withdraw at i-deposit po nila to sa banko. Tsaka ano po, yung time po ng withdrawal ng 41 million na nilagay nga po namin dyan yung schedule po na meron po mga timestamp ng mga withdrawal. Nangyari po lahat ng within a span of one hour almost. 04:03:50.220 --> 04:03:57.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Aside from these transactions that you mentioned, what other unusual banking behavior, if any, did you notice? 04:03:58.580 --> 04:04:20.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, nakapansin po kami ng, although hindi po ito galing ng 22, galing po ng earlier years, nakapansin po kami ng kiting po or variation po of kiting ng two amounts, 41 million and 55 million or total of 96 million po. 04:04:22.040 --> 04:04:27.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung aking nabansaga na parang nagtitinikling po yung pera. 04:04:27.240 --> 04:04:31.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ano ang ibig nyo sabihin ng nagtitinikling yung pera? 04:04:32.740 --> 04:05:00.410 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang ibig pong sabihin nito, well, yung nangyari na lang po dito po sa account po ni BP Sara po at joint account po ito ni BP Sara at ni President Duterte po. Ang nangyayari po, hindi po nag-a-appear sa ending balances yung amounts. Ang ginagawa po nila, nag-i-issue po sila ng manager's check, payable in 6 months. Sorry po. 04:05:04.080 --> 04:05:57.680 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Nag-i-issue po sila ng manager's checks, payable in 6 months. Pero hindi po dini-deposit. Yung manager's check po na ito, ay nakapangalan po sa depositor po, sa may-ari po ng account. Hindi po nila ito dini-deposit. Inintay po nila ito na mag-stale para babalik po yung cash sa loob po ng account nila. So maaari pong during the year nandoon po yung amount pero at the end of the year wala po doon. Nasa banko po yung amount. Kaya po ito unusual banking behavior bukod po sa tinikling ay wala po kasing interest ang manager's check. So yung pagka nag-issue ka po ng managers check, yung banko po ang nagkakaroon po ng payable sa iyo pero wala pong interest. 04:05:58.520 --> 04:05:59.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So 04:05:59.240 --> 04:06:40.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: bakit hindi man lang po nilagay po sa time deposit tulad po nung nauna nilang ginawa nung 2010 po nung hindi po ako nagkakamali. Kung saan yung dalawang amounts po ito ay nasa dalawang time deposit na 41 and 55. Nung kami po ay nag-check, wala rin pong proportionate declaration po si VP Sara nung 2010 dito po sa mga time deposits na ito. Anyway po, after 2010, between 2011 to 2014, ito po yung scheme po na ginagamit. Nag-issue po ng manager's check. 04:06:40.490 --> 04:06:43.850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, before the witness continues. 04:06:46.160 --> 04:06:53.240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: May we move to strike off the word scheme? Because it has not been proven that this was really a scheme, Your Honor. 04:06:53.540 --> 04:06:56.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is it in your report, Attorney Alex? 04:06:57.640 --> 04:07:04.740 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: It is in the report. You can strike out scheme so far as I'm concerned. It's in the report, Po. 04:07:04.920 --> 04:07:12.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, because if it's in the report, you're merely testifying based on your report. Can you point to the page where, do you? Recall where it is? 04:07:13.700 --> 04:07:14.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In 04:07:14.140 --> 04:07:17.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: relation to this particular subject matter, yung tinikling na binabanggit niyo. 04:07:17.880 --> 04:07:18.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ah, opo. 04:07:19.830 --> 04:07:23.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If you refer to it as a scheme in the report, then the chair will allow it. 04:07:24.950 --> 04:07:25.390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As 04:07:25.390 --> 04:07:28.790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: part of your findings. As part of the report, rather. 04:07:29.130 --> 04:07:30.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Anong page yan? 04:07:33.810 --> 04:07:36.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I believe that is in page 19. 04:07:36.190 --> 04:07:39.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You're on page 18, I believe. 19, thereabouts. 04:07:43.800 --> 04:07:44.240 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yes. 04:07:46.070 --> 04:07:51.670 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: concealment through a variation of check kiting. Yun po yung sinabi ko po sa report. 04:07:52.430 --> 04:07:53.190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Did you 04:07:53.190 --> 04:07:54.830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: mention the word scheme? 04:07:54.830 --> 04:07:57.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I don't believe I mentioned the word 04:07:57.310 --> 04:07:57.670 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: scheme. 04:07:57.670 --> 04:08:07.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then the objection motion to strike is sustained rather than granted. Kindly avoid the word scheme, Attorney Alex. 04:08:07.530 --> 04:08:08.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Noted, Mr. 04:08:08.930 --> 04:08:09.450 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Presiding Officer. 04:08:10.720 --> 04:08:12.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I proceed, Your Honor? 04:08:12.480 --> 04:08:13.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Honorable Shell. 04:08:14.850 --> 04:08:33.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, nabanggit niyo yung tinikling at nasabi din ninyo na dahil nga natitinikling yung pera, hindi siya lumalabas sa year-end balance ng mga bank accounts na tinignan ninyo. I haven't asked the question yet, Your Honor. 04:08:34.710 --> 04:08:46.390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We are objecting actually, Your Honor, to the word tinikling. Because as far as we know, as far as we have read the report, it doesn't appear in the report, Your Honor. 04:08:46.970 --> 04:08:53.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What do you mean by tinikling? Where did the word tinikling come from, Atty. Alex? We 04:08:53.470 --> 04:08:55.710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: are only aware 04:08:55.710 --> 04:08:56.490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: of the dance. 04:08:57.390 --> 04:08:58.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: That's right po. 04:08:59.970 --> 04:09:14.170 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kaya ko po ginamit po yung word na tinikling is hindi po naiipit sa year-end yung pera. Lumalabas po siya at bumabalik. Lumalabas at lumabalik. Pero lagi pong wala siya sa year-end balances po. 04:09:14.410 --> 04:09:34.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Sotto, Senator Judge Sotto, used that word as well. Is that a... Yes, is it... Senator Judge Ping spoke from a meter from the mic and said common parlance. Is it common parlance in your field? 04:09:36.380 --> 04:09:41.000 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ginagamit po namin... To shortcut po yung variation po ng kiting. 04:09:41.760 --> 04:09:49.280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Then, Your Honor, perhaps the term check kiting be used as reflected in the report. 04:09:51.000 --> 04:09:51.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: My 04:09:51.640 --> 04:10:00.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: problem with that, Attorney Kristine, is that there's nothing technically wrong with the word tinikling unlike the word scheme. 04:10:02.190 --> 04:10:08.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's descriptive of what he wrote in his report. The chair will allow it. 04:10:09.060 --> 04:10:09.780 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If 04:10:10.230 --> 04:10:11.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I may proceed, your honor. 04:10:13.070 --> 04:10:28.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, attorney Alex, sige, napag-usapan na po natin itong check kiting. Anong nangyari doon sa perang iyon na sabi niyo ay palabas-pasok sa account after that? 04:10:29.890 --> 04:11:00.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Pagdating po ng 2014 ay parang nag-unwind na po yung amounts po. Na punta na po siya sa investment po in insurance policies. Kung di po ako nagkakamali kay BP Sara po and to the children. Apat na 20 million payments for insurance policies po. At meron pong naiwan mga 16.4, 16.5 million po sa account. 04:11:00.910 --> 04:11:06.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At paano nyo nalaman na meron silang binilingang insurance na nabanggit ninyo? 04:11:07.060 --> 04:11:11.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po tayong ebidensya po for these insurance policies po. 04:11:13.650 --> 04:11:26.430 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright, before I proceed to that, just to make it clear and so that we have a visual illustration, request lang po ipakita ang Annex B ng report ni Atty. Cabrera. 04:11:27.330 --> 04:11:36.910 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Before the flash, may we also comment on that, Your Honor? 04:11:36.910 --> 04:11:37.510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, 04:11:37.610 --> 04:11:37.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ma'am. 04:11:38.430 --> 04:11:40.670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'm still looking for that annex, Your Honor. 04:11:47.330 --> 04:11:59.890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Based on this document, Your Honor, we object on the ground that it contains the check numbers of alleged unutilized MCs, Your Honor, and 04:12:01.970 --> 04:12:03.550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: also the amounts, of course. 04:12:04.070 --> 04:12:04.890 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: As I understand, 04:12:05.210 --> 04:12:07.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: those 04:12:07.190 --> 04:12:14.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: accounts were already flashed when the banks were presented, Your Honor, please, and allowed by the Honorable Court. 04:12:15.070 --> 04:12:25.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, and the proceedings of the impeachment court is considered as one of the exceptions to the bank's secrecy law. If the origin of these checks, Honorable Chel, would be from the banks, correct? 04:12:25.350 --> 04:12:37.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, the annex I'm referring to, Your Honor, is a summary of the different accounts. So we're not showing the actual bank statements so that there's also no issue in terms of... 04:12:37.230 --> 04:12:41.410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But with respect to the account numbers, Attorney Chel, perhaps you can redact that. 04:12:41.410 --> 04:12:41.850 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sige 04:12:41.850 --> 04:12:49.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: po. Request lang po kung maaari ipakita ang Annex B pero huwag na pong ipakita ang mga bank accounts mismo. 04:12:49.510 --> 04:12:53.930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please. Or redacted in part. The objection is partly sustained. 04:12:56.090 --> 04:13:10.550 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Your Honor. Attorney Alex, ano po ang kaugnayan nitong Annex B dun sa nabanggit niyong sabihin ko sanang sayaw eh pero yung nabanggit niyong labas-labas pasok ng pera sa account? 04:13:11.430 --> 04:13:24.150 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung nagpapakita po nung Pagka lumalabas po, debit po. Pag bumabalik po ay credit po. Yun po yung pinapakita dito na kung paano po siya nare-record po doon sa account. 04:13:26.390 --> 04:13:27.710 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kung... Yun po. 04:13:27.710 --> 04:13:29.030 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. 04:13:29.790 --> 04:14:00.700 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just for the record so that the members of the court can refer to it as they wish. Now, let's go back to kung nasaan na tayo po sa kwento. Sabi niyo nung una... Napansin ninyo that for several years, labas-pasok nga po yung pera sa para ng mga managers check. At pagkatapos nun, sabi po ninyo na yung pera pa rin na yun ay ginamit na pambili ng life insurance. Magkano po ang ginamit nilang pambiling life insurance if you can remember? 04:14:01.060 --> 04:14:05.320 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung apat po, tagta 20 million, so total po 80 million. 04:14:05.680 --> 04:14:16.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pero sabi nyo, total ng... Variation ng check kiting ay umabot ng 96 million. What happened to the remaining 16 million if you know? 04:14:16.300 --> 04:14:31.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So yung 16 million po nagpatuloy po yun ng parang check kiting po for about one and a half years bago po nag-issue po ng cheque po kay Mr. Samuel Uy na 16 million to close out that account. 04:14:33.380 --> 04:15:27.650 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Just to for the record your honor please. The checks mentioned by the witness have already been marked as exhibit P-2-8-2-3-1-3-BPI, pages 50, 64, 68, 70, 103, 166, 239, 240, and page 252. Insofar as the check mentioned by the witness to Sammy or Samuel Uy. It's marked as an exhibit P-2-8-2-3-1-3-BPI. Okay, move on po tayo, Atty. Alex. You've mentioned several what you consider as unusual or questionable banking behavior. Are there others? What others, if any, did you observe? 04:15:53.750 --> 04:16:00.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I request that table 25 on page 20 of the report be shown on the screen. 04:16:01.260 --> 04:16:03.800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Before the table will be shown, Your Honor. 04:16:05.210 --> 04:16:08.970 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: The portions that may be objected to, Your Honor, please are already 04:16:08.970 --> 04:16:10.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: redacted. 04:16:10.130 --> 04:16:18.950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Is this reference date or reference number, counsel? May we inquire? Because it appears to be a reference number. 04:16:20.960 --> 04:16:23.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: That column has been redacted, ma'am. 04:16:23.660 --> 04:16:24.480 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. 04:16:25.140 --> 04:16:26.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed, Honorable Diokno. 04:16:27.160 --> 04:16:31.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could we request that that table be shown on the screen? Table 25. 04:16:34.060 --> 04:16:37.820 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, bakit, ano pong kwento dito sa table na ito? 04:16:38.570 --> 04:16:58.200 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dito po makikita po dun sa unang linya po, yung amount po ay 205,000 na mukha pong pinambayad po sa isang restaurant po na isang transaction lang po na maari pong dinner po sa Ginza, Inakaya, Tokyo, Japan. 04:16:59.950 --> 04:17:04.370 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What else, if any, did you notice from the transactions shown on the screen, sir? 04:17:04.450 --> 04:17:16.510 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: In one day po, meron pong purchase from Nike SM Davao po. Yung dalawang transaction po na yun ay totaling more than 300,000 pesos po. 04:17:16.940 --> 04:17:18.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And what else, sir, if any? 04:17:19.220 --> 04:17:26.140 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ganon din po nung yung last line po na purchase naman po from Nike Pavilion in Kuala Lumpur. 04:17:28.140 --> 04:17:37.180 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: isang araw din po na-purchase one transaction worth 256,882 pesos and 50 cents po. 04:18:05.310 --> 04:18:18.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: and fourth columns. Let's go on to the fifth column. Total computed undeclared income from Cale88 and Metro City. Ano pong kwento dito? 04:18:21.320 --> 04:18:41.310 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito pong undeclared income po ng Metro City Chow at Cale88 ay base rin po sa aming pong pagbangga ng kanila pong mga income tax return, mga financial statements po na siya rin pong basis ng income tax return. against the bank accounts po ng dalawang kumpanya pong ito. 04:18:41.450 --> 04:19:05.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: But I'm confused, sir. I was under the impression that income from a corporation only becomes income of the stockholder when dividends are declared. But as far as I know, no evidence was presented to this court that dividends were declared for Cale88 and Metro City Chow. So paano naging income ni VP Sara at kanyang asawa ang income nitong dalawang kumpanya? 04:19:06.660 --> 04:19:24.620 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang simpleng explanation po doon eh, kung yung pera po hindi niyo pinasok sa korporasyon officially na hindi po na-declare, in other words po, itinatago po. Kung yun po ay hindi niyo pinasok, ang ibig sabihin lang po noon eh, maghahati-hati po kayo doon. 04:19:26.220 --> 04:19:40.540 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Hating kapatid kumbaga pero sa pagkakataon po ito, hating magkakasyosyo po. So ginamit lang po namin yung percentage ng kanilang ownership. Dito po sa mga pera po na hindi po nila officially pinasok po sa corporation. 04:19:40.980 --> 04:19:44.840 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What is your legal basis, if any, for that answer you just gave? 04:19:45.160 --> 04:19:57.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yan po yung piercing the veil of corporate fiction po kung saan po pwede pong baliwalayin po yung corporation kung meron pong nakikitang substantial under-declaration po. 04:19:57.840 --> 04:20:01.560 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sinaman niyo ba itong piercing the corporate veil sa inyong report? 04:20:02.210 --> 04:20:03.430 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Honorable Sen. 04:20:03.910 --> 04:20:19.170 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I manifest your honor that the discussion on piercing the corporate veil appears on page 25 of the witnesses report. Ngayon, paano niyo kinumpute ang undeclared income ni Vice President Duterte mula sa Metro City Chau? 04:20:19.370 --> 04:20:35.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Vice President Sara po, ginamit lang po namin yung 20% sa GIS niya po at inapply po namin dun sa undeclared inflow po. from the bank accounts ng Metro City Chow. 04:20:35.390 --> 04:20:35.910 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At 04:20:35.910 --> 04:20:38.010 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: isinaman niyo rin po ito sa inyong report. 04:20:38.010 --> 04:20:39.590 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 04:20:39.590 --> 04:20:42.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ipakita po natin ang table 28 ng report. 04:20:49.210 --> 04:21:05.690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While the tech is adjusting for the information of Senator Judges and the public, when you pierce the corporate veil, it means that Attorney Alex set aside the separate juridical personality of the corporation and looked at the corporation based on its individual. 04:21:07.390 --> 04:21:10.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: stockholders and or incorporators. Would that be correct, Atty. Alex? 04:21:11.030 --> 04:21:12.750 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: That's quite correct po. 04:21:14.020 --> 04:21:14.580 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If 04:21:14.580 --> 04:21:15.460 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I may proceed, Your Honor. 04:21:18.280 --> 04:21:31.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What you see on the screen is Table 28 of your report, although medyo maliit po siya. But ano pong kwento nitong Table 28? You may refer to your report if you cannot see the numbers in the screen. 04:21:35.050 --> 04:21:35.490 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 04:21:38.740 --> 04:21:44.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, anyway po. Yung first part po, yung computation po namin nung kanilang 04:22:03.630 --> 04:22:13.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: My question for you is based on those computations appearing in table 28, what percentage of the income of Metro City Chau ang tinago? 04:22:23.640 --> 04:22:24.320 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May 04:22:24.320 --> 04:22:40.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I request that the succeeding page if I'm not mistaken be shown on the screen? Ayan po. Could you kindly read the first sentence on the next page of your report? 04:22:41.190 --> 04:22:50.330 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Based on the above, the revenue as declared in the income tax return is understated by an average of 69% year-on-year. 04:22:51.580 --> 04:22:58.780 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At yun po yung sinasabi niyong dahilan kung bakit na butasan niyo ang corporate veil? 04:22:59.440 --> 04:23:12.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, dahil po sa tax code po natin, yung 30% po ay under declaration. is considered po prima facie evidence of fraud, kaya po pwede pong ma-pierce yung veil. 04:23:15.570 --> 04:23:16.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. 04:23:20.900 --> 04:23:24.580 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, let's move on to table 35 of your report. 04:23:29.690 --> 04:23:33.230 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I will ask you a similar question about table 35. 04:23:36.020 --> 04:23:46.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Well, first, let me establish first. Yung una pong table na ipakita natin ay tungkol sa Metro City Chow Corporation, hindi po ba? Yung kanina. 04:23:47.910 --> 04:23:48.650 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:23:49.240 --> 04:23:53.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ito naman pong table 35. Ano pong kumpanya ang tinutukoy nito? 04:23:57.140 --> 04:23:59.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Perhaps we can ask that the... 04:23:59.060 --> 04:24:00.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Pakibaba po ng konti. 04:24:05.960 --> 04:24:22.520 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Counselor Shell, medyo with the indulgence po ng presiding officer, pwede po bang magpatulong po sa aking accounting assistant na medyo napaghalu-halo ko po itong report ko para masunda ko lang po yung table dito po sa lamesa ko dahil mahirap po mabasa. 04:24:22.520 --> 04:24:22.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Do 04:24:22.580 --> 04:24:24.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you have a copy of your report? 04:24:24.180 --> 04:24:24.300 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: I 04:24:24.300 --> 04:24:27.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: do, I do. Meron po. Anong page po yun? 04:24:27.960 --> 04:24:28.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Page 04:24:28.340 --> 04:24:29.120 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: 33. 04:24:29.540 --> 04:24:31.840 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Okay na po. Okay na po. 04:24:31.840 --> 04:24:35.770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Ace. 04:24:47.150 --> 04:24:52.890 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So ito pong table 35 ay table po na nagpe-pertain po sa Cale88. 04:24:53.330 --> 04:24:54.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Sa Cale88. 04:24:54.430 --> 04:25:11.860 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ah, Cale88 po ito. Tapos... Ito pong first part po ng report ang nagpapakita po ng total inflows based on the audited financial statements. At yung second part po ng table na to ang nagpapakita po ng bank inflows based on the bank accounts. 04:25:11.860 --> 04:25:12.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: In 04:25:12.420 --> 04:25:28.710 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: other words, I will, sorry to interrupt you Mr. Witness, binangganin nyo yung nakita nyong total inflows basis sa audited financial statements ng Cale88, dun sa nakita ninyong bank inflows ng mga bank account ng Cale88. Tama po ba yan? 04:25:28.850 --> 04:25:29.290 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:25:29.510 --> 04:25:35.350 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At you were about to say meron pong portion sa ilalim nun. What does that signify? 04:25:35.990 --> 04:25:51.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung portion po sa ilalim, kinuha po natin yung proportionate interest po ni Atty. Man Carpio doon po sa Cale88. At ginamit po natin yung percentage na yun against the undeclared inflows po. 04:25:52.910 --> 04:26:01.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And what percentage of the income of Cale88 ang nakita niyong hindi na-declare or itinago sa BIR? 04:26:02.130 --> 04:26:10.430 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 51% year-on-year po ang under-declaration po ng Cale88 based on our computation po. 04:26:10.690 --> 04:26:16.190 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Based on your professional experience sir, when you see this kind of corporate behavior, what can you conclude from it? 04:26:17.860 --> 04:26:21.140 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang conclusion po talaga dyan ay hindi po nila 04:26:34.710 --> 04:26:35.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: In 04:26:36.390 --> 04:26:42.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: the course of your reviewing the inflows of Cale88, what foreign inflows, if any, did you observe? 04:26:50.150 --> 04:26:54.370 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: At galing po ito sa iba't ibang bansa, pero karamihan po ay sa China. 04:26:55.270 --> 04:26:57.490 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Isinaman niyo pa ba itong diskusyon sa inyong report? 04:26:57.890 --> 04:26:59.710 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Honorable Shell, nandiyan po sa report. 04:26:59.710 --> 04:27:00.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can 04:27:00.130 --> 04:27:03.930 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: we show please, Your Honor, Table 36 of the report? 04:27:07.660 --> 04:27:19.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Table 36, Sir. On page 34, yes. Thank you po, Your Honor. Ano pong kwento nitong Table 36 na ito? 04:27:19.750 --> 04:27:29.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung nagpapakita po ng remittances po galing po sa iba't ibang bansa. Although karamihan po nito ay nanggaling po ng China. 04:27:30.920 --> 04:27:34.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bakit po ninyo sinasabing karamihan nito ay nanggaling sa China? 04:27:36.280 --> 04:27:51.180 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, mga mahigit 80% po yata ito, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, na nanggaling po sa China. 193 million over yung 222 million na total po ng mga... Remittances po. 04:28:09.090 --> 04:28:10.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: companies appearing in this table. 04:28:10.530 --> 04:28:21.150 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So ito po yung nanggaling po sa kanila pong summary list. At ito po yung mga kumpanya po na pinanggalingan po nung remittances na kumpanyang galing po ng China. 04:28:22.940 --> 04:28:25.820 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could you kindly, for the record, read them aloud? 04:28:26.950 --> 04:28:27.710 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Subukan ko po. 04:28:29.270 --> 04:29:11.010 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Honorable Shell, Beijing Sen Weifang Food Company, China National Township Enterprise. Pujian Weimin Food Development Co., G1 SEM Chanjin Company Limited, Jinhua Mellow Taste Trade Co., Jinhua Dongxi Trading Co., Limited, Singdao Honggrn Trading Co., Yiwu Yimei Food Co., Limited, Yiwu Yunong Import and Export, Zheng Zhao, Wan Hai Food Company Limited. 04:29:11.010 --> 04:29:11.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At 04:29:11.750 --> 04:29:22.300 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: pakizoom out lang po. Please to the tech booth. Magkano po ang total on the right side ng mga remittances from these Chinese companies? 04:29:22.800 --> 04:29:29.120 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang total po ay 193,951,442 po. 04:29:31.810 --> 04:29:41.420 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Balik po tayo sa table 39 ulit para na rin po tayong Ay, hindi ko na po sasabihin yung sayaw. Okay. 04:29:43.000 --> 04:29:51.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano po ang share ni VP Sara sa total undeclared income ng Metro City Chau at Cale88 para sa taong 2022? 04:29:54.060 --> 04:29:54.740 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang 04:29:54.740 --> 04:29:59.940 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: share po ni VP Sara 04:30:10.340 --> 04:30:11.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And 04:30:11.180 --> 04:30:32.670 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: looking at the figures that appear on table on the fourth sorry one two three four fifth column of table 39 could you please tell us the amount of total computed undeclared income from Cale88 and Metro City for the year 2022? 04:30:34.120 --> 04:30:38.100 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 3,790,995 04:30:38.420 --> 04:30:46.980 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano naman po ang total computed undeclared income from Cale88 and Metro City na mag-asawa for the year 2023? 04:30:47.620 --> 04:30:51.260 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 14,788,989 pesos 04:30:51.740 --> 04:30:59.760 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At magkano naman po ang total computed undeclared income ng mag-asawa from Cale88 and Metro City for the year 2024? 04:31:00.600 --> 04:31:07.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 86,944... 86 million. Apologies. 944,369. 04:31:07.820 --> 04:31:15.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And how much is the total computed undeclared income of the couple from Cale88 and Metro City Chao for 2025? 04:31:16.260 --> 04:31:19.900 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 36,674,337. 04:31:21.000 --> 04:31:28.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: All right. Malapit na rin po tayo matapos. I think we'll be able to finish before we adjourn, Your Honors. 04:31:33.120 --> 04:31:34.020 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's go. 04:31:34.020 --> 04:31:34.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We 04:31:35.740 --> 04:31:41.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can do Attorney Christine's cross unless you want to continue, Attorney Christine. 04:31:41.760 --> 04:31:42.660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: No, Your Honor. 04:31:43.100 --> 04:32:06.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can we move on, sir, to the sixth column of Table 39, what is now being shown on the screen, which begins with the words on top. Total computed undeclared income from GenCorp. Una mong tanong, bakit niyo hiniwalay ang pag-compute niyo ng GenCorp doon sa Cale88 at Metro City? 04:32:07.040 --> 04:32:22.680 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dalawang bagay po dahil ang GenCorp po kasi wala po talagang express na nakalagay sa GIS na percentage. At pangalawa po, GenCorp po talaga yung may pinakamalaking under-declaration po, mahigit isang bilyon. 04:32:28.390 --> 04:32:29.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What 04:32:29.340 --> 04:32:34.060 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: is your basis for saying that? Yung 1.1 billion na yan. 04:32:34.220 --> 04:32:42.640 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yung total po nung comparing din po yung inflows po sa bank account versus yung inflows po sa financial statements po. 04:32:43.120 --> 04:32:49.880 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ngayon, paano nyo naman na-compute yung undeclared income ni Vice President Sara Duterte sa GenCorp? 04:32:50.140 --> 04:32:57.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ang in-apply po naming percentage tulad po na ipalawanin ko po kanina is yung conservative amount po namin na 20%. 04:32:57.080 --> 04:33:00.700 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Ito ba'y na-discuss sa inyong report? 04:33:00.700 --> 04:33:02.370 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, Honorable Sean. 04:33:02.370 --> 04:33:05.510 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Could we kindly show page 29 of the report? 04:33:10.080 --> 04:33:13.540 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And please zoom to the second paragraph. 04:33:20.170 --> 04:33:25.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakibasa nga po, Atty. Cabrera, yung first two sentences ng second paragraph. 04:33:26.300 --> 04:34:00.610 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Based on the review, There are undeclared inflows amounting to 279,300,000 in 2023, 370.3 million in 2024, 414.3 million in 2025. For the covered years, the revenue reported in its annual income tax return, the undeclared inflows range from 80 to 94 percent. This may represent substantial under-declaration of revenue amounting to fraud. 04:34:01.210 --> 04:34:04.490 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakipaliwandag na po yung ibig sabihin yan sa simpleng na salita. 04:34:05.340 --> 04:34:08.560 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Pag ganyan po kalaking tinatago niyo, fraudulent po yan. 04:34:10.060 --> 04:34:12.860 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And do you have a table that shows your computation? 04:34:14.920 --> 04:34:15.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron po. 04:34:16.180 --> 04:34:19.200 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakita po natin ang table 31 ng report. 04:34:20.940 --> 04:34:22.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Bago, yes, 04:34:22.300 --> 04:34:25.010 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: please show table 31. 04:34:28.010 --> 04:34:50.770 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Before I ask you anything about this table, Meron pong nakasulat sa ilalim ng Table 31 and I would request that that portion be shown first. I quote it, Based on the above, the revenue as declared in the income tax return is understated by an average of 87% year-on-year. Ano pong ibig sabihin ng salitang iyan? 04:34:53.250 --> 04:35:08.830 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Year-on-year po, very substantial po ang under-declaration ng GENCORP. Ang 87% na under declaration ay hindi po biro dahil may git kumulang 13-10% lang po ang dinideclare po. 04:35:09.550 --> 04:35:19.910 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Am I right in saying that hindi ni-report ng GenCorp sa BIR yung halagang 1.1 billion pesos sa kanilang annual income tax return? Ganun ba yun? 04:35:20.050 --> 04:35:26.550 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total na po yun ng apat na taon at yung amount po ay 1 billion 49,000. 04:35:28.310 --> 04:35:41.090 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 221... Sorry, my apologies po. Napapagod na po. 1,049,221,912 pesos po. 04:35:41.720 --> 04:35:45.180 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Balik po tayo sa page 29 ng report. 04:35:50.530 --> 04:35:57.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakibasa naman po yung third paragraph beginning with the words, hence, etc. 04:35:57.910 --> 04:36:20.230 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Hence, out of the total undeclared inflows in GenCorp, 55.9 million in 2023, 74.1 million in 2024, and 82.9 million in 2025 represent the proportionate economic interest of VP Sara in the company following the sensitivity calculation as discussed above. 04:36:26.610 --> 04:36:55.490 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung ating expert calculation po. Pero gumamit po tayo dito ng sensitivity analysis po tulad po nung sinabi po natin kanina na maaring 45% ang ginamit po natin ay 20. At may mga basean po tayong ginamit kung bakit po natin nasabing 20 based on accounting rules, SEC rules. At yung nakita po natin na relationship po ni VP Sara kay Jaime Tan Cruz at yung interlocking directorship po nila. 04:36:56.100 --> 04:37:02.520 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And this sensitivity calculation is a principle or concept in accounting, is that correct? 04:37:03.220 --> 04:37:10.220 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Konsept po yan sa forensic accounting po. Kailangan, lagi pong nangyayari po ang sensitivity calculation po. 04:37:10.440 --> 04:37:15.240 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At yan po ang method na ginamit nyo para makompute ang interest ni VP Sara sa GenCorp. 04:37:15.360 --> 04:37:15.580 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 04:37:15.680 --> 04:37:29.340 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright. Ipakita naman po natin ang table, ang nasa ilalim ng table 33, page 32. Pakibasa nga po yung nakalagay na beginning with the words, these concerns are. 04:37:31.750 --> 04:37:37.410 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Can we ask that the text show table 33, page 32, and the text below it? 04:37:59.330 --> 04:38:09.290 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Alright, could we ask that the paragraph below the table be, yes, thank you. Could you read, sir, the paragraph below table 33? 04:38:10.350 --> 04:38:23.570 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: These concerns are significant enough that GenCorp's external auditors issued a qualified opinion on the company's financial statements for 2025. Thus, we find the financial statements of GenCorp as unreliable. 04:38:38.380 --> 04:39:27.350 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: either hindi po nakita o nakita po nila pero hindi po nila nakita yung basis at material po pero hindi pervasive. Sa isip po ng mga auditors, material man yung nakita nila or hindi nila nakita tulad ng cash ay hindi naman yan naapektuhan yung buong financial statements. Kaya ako po sinasabi na hindi po yan reliable. Pag ganyan po kalaki ang hindi niyo nakikita, ang ibig pong sabihin niyan eh, adverse opinion dapat ang ini-issue niyo. Unreliable yung buong financial statements. Kasi po maari pong yung cash ay mas malaki pa po sa buong assets po ng financial statements. Tulad po sa case po na ito na 1 billion po yung pumapasok na cash. 04:39:28.110 --> 04:39:32.610 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you, Atty. Cabrera. Can we go back? Yes. Sorry po. 04:39:35.970 --> 04:39:40.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the pleasure of Senator Judge Risa? With the 04:39:40.470 --> 04:39:45.230 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: indulgence of the whole court and Representative Chel, may 04:39:45.230 --> 04:39:50.350 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: I just make a brief administrative request with regards the 04:39:50.350 --> 04:39:50.830 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: ongoing 04:39:50.830 --> 04:39:51.430 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: presentation? 04:39:52.190 --> 04:40:18.500 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer. So just this brief administrative matter, may I kindly request that the Clerk of Court Provide our office and also the offices of the other senator judges who may wish with a complete document submitted by AMLAC on the covered and suspicious transaction reports involving Cale88 and GenCorp to include the inflows and outflows, Mr. Presiding Officer. The 04:40:18.500 --> 04:40:25.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Clerk of Court is so directed to furnish the office of Senator Riza as well as any senator judge who would wish a copy as well. 04:40:25.720 --> 04:40:28.800 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Salamat po, Representative Chen. 04:40:30.190 --> 04:40:31.250 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: A pleasure. 04:40:31.250 --> 04:40:31.610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can 04:40:31.610 --> 04:40:33.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we proceed, Honorable Shell? 04:40:34.730 --> 04:40:37.390 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakita po natin ang table 39 ulit. 04:40:40.910 --> 04:40:44.450 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: We are now at the second to the last column, attorney Cabrera. 04:40:49.340 --> 04:41:02.620 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Napaliwanag na po ninyo kung paano nyo na-compute yung mga halaga. So ngayon ay pupunta tayo sa mismong mga computed amounts ninyo. Doon sa second to the last column, may I ask that it be zoomed? 04:41:04.820 --> 04:41:06.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Which states... 04:41:08.880 --> 04:41:25.820 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Total computed undeclared income from GenCorp. Let's begin with the year 2023 which is the second row appearing there. Magkano po ang total computed undeclared income from GenCorp for the year 2023? 04:41:27.170 --> 04:41:31.390 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 55,714,292. 04:41:31.690 --> 04:41:37.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano naman po ang total computed undeclared income from GenCorp for the year 2024? 04:41:38.700 --> 04:41:43.480 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 74,056,480 pesos po. 04:41:43.640 --> 04:41:49.440 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At magkano po ang total computed undeclared income from GenCorp for the year 2025? 04:41:50.280 --> 04:41:53.900 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 82,858,946 po. 04:41:54.200 --> 04:42:14.390 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Okay, mahaba pong nalakbay natin pero malapit na po tayong matapos. Now I want to direct your attention to the last column. We have explained all of the different columns except The last one. Ano pong kwento nitong total column na may nakasulat total undeclared? 04:42:14.610 --> 04:42:25.030 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So ito po yung sa aming pong computation, ito po yung total undeclared wealth po ni Bipisara at ng kanyang spouse. 04:42:25.880 --> 04:42:38.480 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: For the year 2022, I'm referring to the first row that you see there. Magkano ang total undeclared assets at income ni VP Sara at kanyang asawa sa taong 2022? 04:42:40.020 --> 04:42:43.460 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: P190,628,012 04:42:43.460 --> 04:42:45.000 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano 04:42:45.000 --> 04:42:51.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: naman po ang total undeclared assets at income ni VP Sara at ng kanyang asawa para sa taong 2023? 04:42:52.920 --> 04:42:56.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: P167,337,227 04:42:58.650 --> 04:43:04.790 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano po ang total undeclared assets at income ni VP Sara at kanyang asawa sa taong 2024? 04:43:06.250 --> 04:43:10.450 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 264,217,123 pesos po. 04:43:10.810 --> 04:43:17.210 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Magkano po ang total undeclared assets at income ni VP Sara at kanyang asawa sa taong 2025? 04:43:18.880 --> 04:43:22.960 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 195,692,505 pesos po. 04:43:23.140 --> 04:43:34.840 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ano po ang suma total? ng undeclared assets at income ni VP Sara at kanyang asawa para sa taong 2022 hanggang 2025, sir? 04:43:35.720 --> 04:43:40.920 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 817,874,867 pesos po. 04:43:40.920 --> 04:43:41.400 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Wait 04:43:41.400 --> 04:43:43.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: lang po, Alex. Baka naman may double count yan. 04:43:44.690 --> 04:43:57.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Wala po, Honorable Shell. Ang aming pong method na ginamit po dito ay very conservative. Yun po yung aming inalagaan na wala pong double counting, wala pong duplication po ng count. 04:43:57.750 --> 04:44:05.220 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At ito pong mga na-count ninyo ay hindi po kasama ang mga dollar accounts dito? 04:44:05.220 --> 04:44:05.980 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kasama po 04:44:05.980 --> 04:44:16.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: yung, hindi po kasama ang dollar accounts, except po may kasama po dyan na yung sa Cali88 po. Pero bukod po doon, wala pong kasama po yung dollar accounts. 04:44:17.930 --> 04:44:26.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Before I wrap up, Your Honor, may I just have a moment to check if I missed anything in my direct? I just have a few questions remaining. 04:44:27.170 --> 04:44:41.310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will give you a few minutes without calling a recess. Yes, Senator Judge Lacson, what is your pleasure, sir? Again, as announced by the Chair, Atty. Chris Sr. Cross will be on Monday. So you have the whole weekend to work and not to do anything else. 04:44:41.310 --> 04:44:41.750 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Hindi ko lang 04:44:41.750 --> 04:45:04.340 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: po matis na hindi masabi ito dahil observation lang po. Kahit po pang FM radio yung boses nilang dalawa sa hating gabi, hindi po ako inantok. Maraming salamat po. I just hope the defense can, you know, at least approximate yung sensitivity ng opinion ni Atty. Alex. Salamat po. 04:45:07.110 --> 04:45:27.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While the Honorable Diokno is checking on his documents, to wind up, I believe, Chair, just as an interjection, Attorney Alex, you totaled the undeclared sums per year from 2022 to 2025. Is that correct? 04:45:27.680 --> 04:45:28.620 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: That's correct po. 04:45:28.920 --> 04:45:41.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So is it proper to call the 817,874,867 the aggregate annual? 04:45:47.560 --> 04:45:49.360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Undeclared income, money? 04:45:49.500 --> 04:45:51.160 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yeah, I see what you... 04:45:51.160 --> 04:45:53.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What do you call that amount? 04:45:53.260 --> 04:47:01.820 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Mr. President Officer, may I explain something po? Doon po sa SALN na meron po tayong annual na... Net income? Ah, net worth? Yes, yes po. Meron po tayong annual na undeclared assets po or undeclared net worth. Pagka hindi po na-declare sa... First year, hindi po na-declare sa second year. Paulit-ulit po yun kasi po undeclared po ng taon na yun. Pero dito po sa computation na ito, na-eliminate na po yung paulit-ulit po na yun. Ang ibig sabihin, pag pumasok po yung asset minsan, minsan lang po namin siyang binibilang. Hindi na po siya nauulit. So, ito po talagang sa tingin ko po, okay naman po siyang undeclared kasi po yung na-add po dito, parang Sa SALN, increase in net worth. At ang alam po natin na yung increase in net worth is equivalent to income. Pagka nagkocompute po ng income na po. So yung increase in net worth po na yun, in-add po natin dito sa mga undeclared inflows po. Kaya yun po yung total undeclared wealth po. 04:47:02.590 --> 04:47:05.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So this is the total undeclared wealth. 04:47:05.850 --> 04:47:06.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: As of 04:47:06.850 --> 04:47:07.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2025. 04:47:08.370 --> 04:47:11.050 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: As of 2025. Cumulative po. 04:47:11.770 --> 04:47:12.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Cumulative. 04:47:13.130 --> 04:47:15.830 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total po. Total po. Pero wala pa na ulit. 04:47:15.970 --> 04:47:16.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi siya cumulative. 04:47:17.270 --> 04:47:18.730 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Total. Total po. 04:47:18.930 --> 04:47:24.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Total because per year yun. Yes, what is the pressure of the Honorable Aquino? 04:47:27.940 --> 04:47:38.280 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: No, this is just for clarity, no? So, Attorney Alex, what you're saying is ito yung lahat ng undeclared. Correct, diba? 04:47:38.280 --> 04:47:38.720 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Dama po. 04:47:38.720 --> 04:47:54.460 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Pero hindi siya necessarily ito yung net worth. As of today. Because you only have to look at the 2025. Or are you saying that we should add it? I think yun yung ano ni presiding officer. 04:47:54.980 --> 04:48:14.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, what I was actually pointing out to Honorable Senator Judge Aquino is in 2022, ang sinasabi niyo po, Atty. Alex, Hindi kulang yung deklarasyon ng Vice President to the tune of P190,628,012. 04:48:15.580 --> 04:48:20.520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In 2023, P167 million ang hindi niya dineklara. Hindi po ba? 04:48:20.740 --> 04:48:21.260 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:48:22.240 --> 04:48:25.080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At ganun din ang 24 at ganun din ang 25. 04:48:25.420 --> 04:48:26.120 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:48:26.320 --> 04:48:32.440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So tinotal niyo po yung kabuhaan na hindi niya dineklara mula nung siya ay naging ikalawang Pangulo. 04:48:33.220 --> 04:48:33.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is 04:48:33.660 --> 04:48:34.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that a fair statement? 04:48:34.700 --> 04:48:35.020 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:48:35.280 --> 04:48:44.320 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Is it also a fair statement to say na hindi ibig sabihin na 817 ang net worth niya? Hindi rin ano? 04:48:44.320 --> 04:48:44.440 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama 04:48:44.440 --> 04:48:48.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: po kasi yan po yung undeclared so i-add po natin yung dineclare niya po sa SALN. 04:48:48.860 --> 04:48:53.400 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So what you're saying for all of the years or just for 2025? 04:48:53.400 --> 04:48:54.980 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: For 2025 po. 04:48:54.980 --> 04:48:58.130 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Because it's rolling eh, diba? 04:48:58.130 --> 04:48:58.670 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:48:58.670 --> 04:49:11.290 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So meaning yung perang yan, posibleng na dun pa rin yung perang yan in the next year. So we look at that 2025 undeclared and the declared. Is that correct? Is that correct, Atty. Alex? Para lang malinaw sa aming lahat. 04:49:11.750 --> 04:49:26.140 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So yung Honorable Judge Baum, eto pong undeclared po dito, hindi po siya yung Kinokopya po yung mga undeclared dun sa nakaraang taon at kinikerry. So this has no carryover amounts. 04:49:26.860 --> 04:49:27.340 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: So 04:49:27.340 --> 04:50:01.500 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: pagka may nadeclare po, halimbawa po, firearms, one time lang po yun. Kahit po hindi niya po dinideclare ang firearms taon-taon, one time lang po yung bilang dito. Kasi ang pinag-uusapan po dito, hindi po yung violation ng SALN po, na every year may under-declaration ka, magkano yung violation? Ito yung assets na hindi mo nade-declare. Magmula noon hanggang ngayon di mo dinideclare yung asset, paulit-ulit po yun. Kasi violation lang po yung inahunting natin doon. Pero dito po ang inahunting po natin is yung under declaration po. Kaya iniwasan po namin ulitin po. 04:50:01.500 --> 04:50:01.920 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. So 04:50:01.920 --> 04:50:03.100 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: walang rolling over yan? 04:50:03.100 --> 04:50:03.520 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Wala po. 04:50:03.520 --> 04:50:10.860 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So what you're saying is that it's 817 plus the declared of 2025 would be the net worth. That's your report? 04:50:11.100 --> 04:50:11.280 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 04:50:12.260 --> 04:50:13.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Honorable Diokno? 04:50:14.580 --> 04:50:16.640 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, Your Honor. Just a few more questions. 04:50:18.450 --> 04:50:22.130 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Did you include a section in your report on your conclusions? 04:50:23.550 --> 04:50:25.050 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Yes, Honorable Chair. 04:50:25.550 --> 04:50:30.590 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May we request that page 39 of the report be shown, Your Honor? 04:50:31.690 --> 04:50:32.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you so much, Instructor. 04:50:37.770 --> 04:50:41.330 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And of course, zoomed in so we can see. 04:50:45.810 --> 04:50:50.630 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Isa-isahin po natin yan. Could you please read aloud your first conclusion? 04:50:51.690 --> 04:51:11.010 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Based on all the foregoing, our conclusions are as follows. Number one. BP Sara Duterte SALN for the year 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 were untruthful with a substantial amount of assets belonging to the respondent and spouse found to be unreported. 04:51:11.510 --> 04:51:13.750 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakipaliwanag nga po yan sa simpleng salita. 04:51:15.270 --> 04:51:27.080 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Year on year po yung SALN po nila ay under-declared substantially po and kaya po namin sinasabi na yung SALN na po ng mga iyon ay hindi po makatotohanan. 04:51:28.240 --> 04:51:31.040 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Please read conclusion number two. 04:51:31.620 --> 04:51:36.640 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Bibi Sara, during her vice presidency, continued to participate in various businesses. 04:51:37.080 --> 04:51:39.720 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: At anong ibig sabihin yan sa simpleng salitase? 04:51:41.460 --> 04:51:52.090 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Meron pa rin po siyang mga negosyo, either as an individual or negosyo po bilang stockholders and directors po ng corporation po. 04:51:52.430 --> 04:51:55.490 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Let's move to the third conclusion. Please read it aloud. 04:51:56.840 --> 04:52:11.000 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Her unexplained wealth based only on the limited documents examined, excluding documents in the possession of VP Sara and spouse, amount to 817.87 million. 04:52:11.580 --> 04:52:15.660 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Again, same question na pakipaliwanag po ito sa simpleng salita. 04:52:15.760 --> 04:52:21.980 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Ito po yung total po nung ating under-declaration po na computation doon sa table. 04:52:23.850 --> 04:52:36.650 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Kung ito po ay under-declared, ito po ay hindi galing sa allowed sources of income or legitimate sources of income. Kaya po siya unexplained. 04:52:36.650 --> 04:52:37.370 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And 04:52:37.370 --> 04:52:40.090 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: please read conclusion number 4. 04:52:40.550 --> 04:52:51.110 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: The above-mentioned infringements which happened in 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 established a pattern of constitutional violations year on year. 04:52:51.450 --> 04:52:53.670 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: What do you mean by that in simple terms, sir? 04:52:53.850 --> 04:52:56.850 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Taon-taon po, meron pong violation ng Constitution po. 04:52:57.500 --> 04:53:00.620 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: And last conclusion, number five? 04:53:01.300 --> 04:53:19.360 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Apart from the Constitution, other laws were violated or may have been violated such as the National Internal Revenue Code, RA 1379, RA 6713, RA 3019, RA 12009, SRC Rules and Cover Rules po. 04:53:21.290 --> 04:53:22.270 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Pakipaliwanag lang po. 04:53:22.660 --> 04:53:32.940 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo, hindi lamang po Constitution ang na-violate po. Meron din po mga ibang laws na maaaring na-violate or possibly violated po. 04:53:33.400 --> 04:53:46.600 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Kanina po, nabanggit ninyo na isa sa inyong mga advokasya ay yung pagsulong ng integrity. Kung maalala po ninyo, what does integrity have to do with the financial review that you conducted if anything in this case? 04:53:54.190 --> 04:53:57.830 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Well, ang pagsunod po sa batas ay isa po sa mga 04:53:59.850 --> 04:54:26.800 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Paraan po kung paano niyo ipakita ang inyong integridad. Ang pagsunod po sa batas ay mayroon pong cost. Kasi po tulad po ng taxes po na napakalinaw po na cost. And marami po sa ating mga kababayan nagbabayad po ng taxes pati po mga individual. Sa totoo nga po niya mas malaki pa po yung tax rate po ng individual versus corporation po. 04:54:29.740 --> 04:54:57.640 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: 25%. Ang taxes po na ating binabayad ay nakakatulong po sa ating pong bansa sa infrastructure, sa ating pong hospital, medical needs, education, etc. po. Masakit po magbayad ng tax pero marami po sa atin nagbabayad po ng tax because kailangan po and kailangan po kasama po ang pagbabayad sa tax sa integridad. Integrity has a cost po. 04:54:59.180 --> 04:55:00.680 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: No more questions, Your Honor. 04:55:03.050 --> 04:55:04.870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the pleasure of the Senate, President? 04:55:05.250 --> 04:55:05.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ... 04:55:06.330 --> 04:55:09.030 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: One clarificatory question, Mr. Presiding Officer. 04:55:09.030 --> 04:55:09.190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 04:55:09.190 --> 04:55:10.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may proceed, Mr. Senate President. 04:55:10.270 --> 04:55:20.150 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tama po ba, Atty. Alex, na itong 817 dapat nasa SALN ni Vice President Sara for 2025? 04:55:21.440 --> 04:55:22.220 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:55:22.420 --> 04:55:26.880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Dapat nakareflect yan in 817 sa kanyang 2025 SALN? 04:55:27.460 --> 04:55:34.210 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. Yun pong under declaration po per year, dapat din pong nakareflect po sa SALN niya noong mga taon. 04:55:34.210 --> 04:55:34.310 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Per year. 04:55:34.550 --> 04:55:34.990 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero 04:55:34.990 --> 04:55:40.490 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: pag for 2025, assuming all things equal, dapat yung 817, nandoon siya. 04:55:42.050 --> 04:55:42.530 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Opo. 04:55:42.990 --> 04:55:44.210 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you, Mr. President. 04:55:44.530 --> 04:55:49.030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly flash it again before we adjourn. Kindly flash that table again, please. 04:55:53.920 --> 04:55:54.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To 04:55:54.400 --> 04:56:10.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: be extremely clear, Atty. Alex, in line with the question of clarification of Sen. Bam and Senate President Win, Nung 2022 hindi po na deklara ayon sa inyo ng respondent ay 190 million plus. 04:56:10.400 --> 04:56:11.380 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:56:11.480 --> 04:56:19.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa 2023 dapat i-add yung 190 million sa 167 at yun po ang hindi niya dineklara ng 2023. 04:56:19.780 --> 04:56:20.540 Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera: Tama po. 04:56:21.100 --> 04:56:31.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At sa 2024, ang hindi niya dineklara ay ia-add mo ngayon yung 190 million plus 167 plus 264, yun po ang hindi niya dineklara, million. 04:56:32.100 --> 04:56:32.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At 04:56:32.780 --> 04:56:42.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yung tanong na ating kagalang-galang ng Senate President, sa 2025, ang kabuhang hindi niya dineklara ay yung naka-bold na numerong 817 million. 04:56:43.400 --> 04:56:44.080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 04:56:46.060 --> 04:57:04.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you very much. Again, since we did not issue a subpoena to Attorney Alex, I presume it is the prosecution's lookout to once again produce Attorney Alex on Monday, October 12 at 10 a.m. 04:57:04.320 --> 04:57:05.880 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: We will do so, Your Honor. 04:57:05.880 --> 04:57:14.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With a reminder that his testimony this whole afternoon would be useless if he is not subjected to cross. 04:57:14.100 --> 04:57:14.700 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Yes, 04:57:14.700 --> 04:57:14.900 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your Honor. 04:57:15.040 --> 04:57:20.210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On Monday. I'm sure you know that, Attorney Chel. Atty. Kristine, cross on Monday? 04:57:21.070 --> 04:57:21.790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. 04:57:22.330 --> 04:57:25.990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other matters? Any of the counsels wish to take up? 04:57:27.510 --> 04:57:37.430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I see the Honorable Ridon waving his hand and giving me a thumbs up sign. Atty. Sheila, anything you want to take up before we adjourn for the weekend? 04:57:50.850 --> 04:57:53.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Atty. Sheila. Ah, yes, the apple box. 04:57:53.450 --> 04:57:56.550 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. Just a couple of questions, Your Honor. 04:57:56.550 --> 04:57:57.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, ma'am. 04:57:57.450 --> 04:58:39.300 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: First, may we just... Actually, the first item would be just a request that the prosecution ensure that this witness will attend the hearing on Monday for cross-examination, Your Honor. Otherwise, I noticed in the letter that he submitted that he will be away from October 13, starting October 13 and for three weeks for a travel to Europe, Your Honor. In that case then, if he doesn't appear on Monday, and everybody has already heard his testimony, then that would deprive the respondent the right to cross-examination. But even if we ask for the expunction of his... 04:58:39.300 --> 04:58:40.620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It would have still been heard. 04:58:40.620 --> 04:58:46.960 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes. The testimony has already been heard, Your Honor. 04:58:46.960 --> 04:58:47.260 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Your 04:58:47.260 --> 04:58:48.500 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Honor. 04:58:48.500 --> 04:58:50.360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly, are you finished, Attorney Sheila? 04:58:50.560 --> 04:59:02.100 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That's the first item, Your Honor. The second item, Your Honor, is that may we ask the prosecution for the order of witnesses on Monday after the termination of the cross of this witness. Thank you. 04:59:02.160 --> 04:59:13.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On the first item, we will cross the bridge when we get there, Attorney Sheila, but again, relying on the candor of the Honorable Diokno as well as the panel of prosecutors as officers of the court, 04:59:13.300 --> 04:59:14.380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we 04:59:14.380 --> 04:59:28.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: would rely on their assurance. that attorney Alex will be produced by them sans a subpoena on Monday for CROSS. On the, what's the second point, attorney Sheila? 04:59:28.580 --> 04:59:28.780 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: The 04:59:28.780 --> 04:59:30.940 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: order of witnesses for Monday. 04:59:31.980 --> 04:59:35.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, definitely it will be attorney Alex first, for sure. 04:59:35.940 --> 04:59:36.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm 04:59:36.500 --> 04:59:52.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not sure if they will still present the NBI witness based on their manifestation because we have not issued a subpoena yet as of today for him. And we have not received any request also thus far. So can you respond, Honorable Shell? 04:59:53.180 --> 04:59:58.140 Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Atty. Alexander B. Cabrera is our last witness, Your Honor, for our case in chief. 04:59:58.420 --> 05:00:02.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. So, only one witness for Monday, Attorney Sheila. 05:00:04.260 --> 05:00:05.740 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Understood, Your Honor. Thank you. 05:00:06.560 --> 05:00:17.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other matters to be taken up? There have been no other matters to be taken up. Trial is adjourned until Monday, October 12th at 10 in the morning.