September 15, 2026

The sergeant at arms is directed to make a proclamation.

All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order.

We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Christopher Bong Go.

Let us put ourselves in the presence of the Lord.

Almighty God, we come before you today seeking your wisdom, guidance, and strength as we fulfill the duties entrusted to us by the Filipino people. We pray for the peaceful conduct of the ongoing BARM elections and and for the continued success of the Bangsamoro Peace Process. Matagal nang pinagdadaanan ng ating mga kapatid sa Bangsamoro ang landas tungo sa kapayapaan. Naway magiging pagkakataon ng halalan upang mas marinig ang boses ng taong bayan at lalo pang mapagtibay ang kapayapaan, pagkakaisa, at pagunlad sa rehyon. Kami rin po ay pinili ng taong bayan upang maging kanilang mga kinatawan. Nawa'y huwag naming sayangin ang tiwalang ipinagkaloob nila sa amin sapagkat sa aming mga disisyon ay nakasalalay hindi lamang ang kasalukuyan kundi maging ang kinabukasan ng ating bansa at ng mga susunod na henerasyon. In this important moment for our nation, grant us clarity of mind and sincerity of heart. May we always be guided by truth, fairness, respect for our institutions, and above all, the welfare of every Filipino. Lord, as we perform our solemn duty as Senator-Judges, remind us that the credibility and integrity of this Court rests upon how faithfully and fairly we discharge our responsibilities. Tayo ang pinili at pinagkatiwalaan ng mahalagang tungkulin ito, naway maging patas at makatarungan kami sa bawat hakbang at disisyon aming gagawin. Lord, We also pray for our countrymen who continue to face the daily struggles of life sa gitna ng hirap ng buhay, pagtaas ng mga bilihin, mga sakuna, at iba pang pagsubok. Tulungan mo kaming huwag malimutan ang tunay na dahilan ng aming paglilingkod, ang mapabuti ang buhay ng bawat Pilipino. May this process never divide us as a nation, sa halip naway manaig ang ating pagkakabuklod-buklod Pagalang sa isa't isa at pagmamalasakit sa kapwa. I am for unity. I am for healing of this country. Sana matapos na ito para makatrabaho na tayo. Remind us that beyond our positions and responsibilities, we share one country and one responsibility to protect its people in its future. Guide each one of us to act according to our conscience, the Constitution, and the rule of law. Give us the humility to listen, the courage to do what is right, and the wisdom to place the interests of the Filipino people above all else. May our decisions contribute to a stronger, more peaceful, more united, and healed Philippines. All these we ask in your holy name. Amen.

Senator-Judge Pia S. Cayetano, Senator-Judge Ronald "Bato" M. dela Rosa, Senator-Judge Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito, Senator-Judge Jinggoy Ejercito Estrada, Senator-Judge Christopher Bong Go, Senator-Judge Risa Hontiveros, Senator-Judge Panfilo "Ping" M. Lacson, Senator-Judge Manuel "Lito" M. Lapid, Senator-Judge Loren Legarda, Senator-Judge Rodante Marcoleta, Senator-Judge Imee Marcos, Senator-Judge Robinhood "Robin" Padilla, Senator-Judge Francis "Kiko" Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Vicente "Tito" C. Sotto III, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo, Senator-Judge Raffy T. Tulfo, Senator-Judge Joel Villanueva, Senator-Judge Camille Villar, Senator-Judge Mark A. Villar, Senator-Judge Juan Miguel "Migz" F. Zubiri, the Presiding Officer, Senator-Judge Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero, Senate President, Senator-Judge Sherwin T. Gatchalian.

With 17 Senator-judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum.

In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected Presiding Officer to preside over the proceedings of the Impeachment Court.

Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the September 14, 2026 Journal of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court.

Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

Appearances of the parties.

For the prosecution, magandang umaga po. We are ready, Your Honors. Good morning,

Honorable Ridon. For the respondent?

Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the defense.

Good morning, Atty. Sheila. Who is your witness for this morning, Honorable Ridon?

Handa po kami i-presenta si Atty. Karen Batu ng Office of the Ombudsman.

Who will be presenting the witness?

It will be Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih, member of the panel of the prosecutors.

Counsel for the panel of prosecutors.

Atty. James, call your witness.

Good morning, Your Honor. It's a pleasure to be in your presence today. For the record, again, I am James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih of PECABAR Law, appearing as counsel for the prosecutors. With your kind permission, Your Honor, we would like to call to the witness stand Atty. Karen S. Batu, the officer in charge of the Central Records Division of the Office of the Ombudsman.

Kindly situate Atty. Karen Batu to the witness stand.

The clerk of court is directed to administer the oath to Attorney Batu.

Ma'am, please raise your right hand. You, Karen S. Batu, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

Maganda umaga po, Attorney Batu. Naunawaan niyo po ang pinanumpaan ninyo?

Yes, Your Honor.

Okay, your witness, Attorney James,

kindly

make your offer.

Yes, your honor. Good morning again, your honors, and also good morning to our friends from the defense. Chief, good morning. Good morning, James. All right. Your honor, we are presenting Attorney Batu for the following purposes. Number one, and for ease of reference, your honor, the same are being flashed on screen. So number one, to prove that The witness is the officer in charge of the records division of the Office of the Ombudsman and has been serving in such capacity since December 2025. Number two, to prove that the Office of the Ombudsman is the official repository of the statements of assets, liabilities, and net worth. And for brevity or honor, allow me to refer to this as SAL-N throughout these proceedings of constitutional, national, and local elective officials, including the SAL-Ns of the Vice President Sara Duterte for the years 2007 to 2012, and then from 2016 to 2020-25. Number three, to

prove that the network declared by the Vice President in her SAL-Ns for 2007 to 2025 including its components like the amount of cash and other personal properties she declared for those years. Number four, to prove that based on the Vice President's own declarations under oath in her SALNs for 2007 to 2025, her declared net worth as well as that of her spouse, Atty. Manasseh Scarpio, increased from 7,250,497 pesos in 2007 65,308,841 in 2021 and later to 98,656,131.20 in 2025 or an increase of around 91 million from 2007. Number five, to prove that the Vice President did not declare any cash on hand, or cash in bank in her SAL-Ns for the years 2019 to 2025 after making cash declarations in her 2007 to 2012 and 2016 to 2018 SAL-Ns. Number 6. To prove that based on the official records of the Ombudsman, the Vice President's SAL-Ns contain no declaration of any foreign currency deposits, including deposits denominated in U.S. dollars or even other foreign currencies, all including Chinese RMB and the like.

Number seven, to prove that the Vice President Duterte declared under oath in her silence that she and or her spouse, Atty. Carpio, have various business and financial interests but failed to declare their ownership of the shares of stock and their corresponding acquisition, or cost or value rather. Number eight,

to

prove that despite her election as Vice President in June 2022 and as declared under oath in her SAL-N for the succeeding years, Vice President Duterte did not divest and instead willfully continued her business and financial interest. To emphasize, in Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, GenCorp Industries Inc., and other corporations.

Number nine, to identify your honors and authenticate the certified true copies of the SAL-Ns involving those years that I've mentioned. And lastly, to prove other material allegations in relation to the articles of impeachment. Thank you.

Purpose number one, Your Honor, the defense is willing to stipulate,

Your Honor.

As well as number two, perhaps. However, there has to be a correction on number two, Your Honor, as I think they stated that the repository for all elective officials would be the Office of the Ombudsman. Just for accuracy's sake, Your Honor, regional and local elective officials, the repository is the Office of the Deputy Ombudsman in their respective region. We just want that clarified, Your Honor. What

Do you say, Attorney James?

Nevertheless, Your Honor, whether they are regional, Local. These are all still part of the Office of the Ombudsman so there's really no need for the nuancing. I think

the nuance is necessary in order to dispense with proving that Attorney Batu is aware of these salends filed when the Vice President was still Vice Mayor or Mayor.

Yes, Your Honor. Thank

you for understanding the point.

Yes, Your Honor. And in relation to that, I guess the next stipulation would also be, Your Honor, that all those SAL-Ns are true and authentic. Is that correct?

We are not willing to stipulate on that, Your Honor.

Proceed with your comments, Attorney Justin.

Yes, Your Honor. We will proceed to our objections, Your Honor. Just to be clarified, we are particularly referring to purposes number 3, 4, and 9, Your Honor, as this refer to documents or SAL-Ns. Covering periods which the respondent was not an impeachable officer, Your Honor. This is the proper time to raise this because we are not objecting to the documentary evidence yet as it is not the proper time. But we are objecting to the offer of the testimonial evidence which the witness will be producing before this court today, Your Honor. Again, Your Honor, we reiterate the ruling of Duterte v. House of Representatives that only matters In relation to the impeachable term that are committed or done in the, allegedly, in the impeachable, in relation to the position, Your Honor, are matters that can be or within the ambit of this impeachment court, Your Honor. We are therefore objecting on the ground of irrelevance and inadmissibility, Your Honor, for the rest of the offer, Your Honor, subject to cross-examination.

Your Honor, may we comment?

Your Honor? No need, so we can proceed. The chair would like to remind counsel for the respondent the ruling of the chair with respect to the issuance of the subpoenas covering the period 2007 up to 2025. That pursuant to OMB, Office of the Ombudsman v. Bernardo, GR 18-1598, dated March 2013, there is a necessity to establish the baseline. Not for the prosecution but equally for the respondent in order to find out what is the base figure for the computation of the salon during her term as vice president. The chair also clarified when it ruled in favor of granting the subpoena that we are not adding to the charges against the vice president for supposed acts committed prior to her term as vice president. The only ones she's being charged of before the impeachment court would be those committed during her term as vice president from 2022 up to the present. And whatever it is that may be shown is only for purposes of establishing a baseline and not adding to the charges already made in the articles of impeachment that are outside her term. We will register your continuing objection, Attorney Justin. With respect to offers number 3, 4, and 9. Would that be correct?

Yes, Your Honor.

Very well,

Your Honor. Subject to cross. A

continuing objection with respect to offers 3, 4, and 9 is hereby noted. Attorney James, your witness, you may proceed when you're ready. Salamat po and thank you

for the clarification, Your Honor.

And again, Attorney James, to clarify, whatever the witness will say with respect to the period before the Vice President became Vice President is only for the establishment of a baseline.

That is precisely what we're about to do, Your Honor.

Please proceed,

Counsel.

Good

morning, Madam Witness.

Good morning.

Would you mind telling us first your personal circumstances for the record, please?

I'm attorney Karen S. Batu. I'm the officer in charge of the Central Records Division of the Office of the Ombudsman. Madam

Witness, at any time if you cannot understand my question, please feel free to correct me or to ask for a clarification. Is that okay?

Yes, sir.

Thank you, po. Sige. I understand that you're also a lawyer. Is that right?

Yes, sir.

How long have you been a member of the bar, please?

I took the bar in 2014 and passed the bar. I became a member of the bar in 2015.

And how long have you been working in the office of the ombudsman?

I've been with the office of the ombudsman since 2010.

2010.

From 2010, what other positions, if any, have you held in the office of the ombudsman?

I started as a graph prevention and control officer with the Public Assistance and Corruption Prevention Office. And then, after passing the bar, I got promoted to the position of graph investigation officer 1. And I was assigned at the ombudsman proper. Prior to that, the overall deputy ombudsman office.

Just last year, I got promoted to the position of Graft Investigation and Prosecution Officer III.

Sige po. Ma'am, just to clarify, pwede po kayo mag-Tagalog or English kung

saan po kayo

komportable po?

Tama po.

Sige po.

Okay. Sige po. Nabanggit niyo po na kayo ay nasa OIC ng CRD or Central Records Division. Tama po? Tama

po.

Ano naman po itong CRD po na ito?

The Central Records Division is a frontline service of the Office of the Ombudsman in charge of the case records management which include receiving, releasing, the storing, and eventual disposing of these documents such as complaints.

Pleadings, Salens, and Letters.

Complaints, Pleadings, Salens, and Letters.

But

for purposes of today's hearing, let's just focus on Salen. At paulit-ulit na po natin narinig ito. From the Ombudsman, ano po ba ang Salen?

Ang SALN po, based po sa RA 6713, ito po ay isang statement made under oath. It's a declaration under oath of a public official.

pertaining to his or her assets, liabilities, net worth, including the spouses.

Okay. Pagpasensya niyo na mama, hindi pa kasi ako nagdo-government so I'm not familiar with SAL-N. But when you say that SAL-Ns are under oath, ano po bang ibig sabihin nun?

Ito po ay sinumpaang salaysay.

Nino?

Nang declarant or nang public official.

So ibig sabihin po, and this is just confirmatory, Yung SAL-N, pinapanumpaan nung deklarant, ano yung pinapanumpaan niya?

Na ito yung natutoo yung mga nilagay niya dun sa SAL-N. Natutoo

yung nasa laman ng SAL

-N.

At nagpo-file din kayo ng SAL-N, tama?

Yes, sir.

At nanunumpa kayo na tama yung SAL-N niyo?

Yes, sir.

Very good. Sige po. At sino naman po yung required na mag-file ng SAL-Ns?

All officials of the government except for

I think those who are in honorary capacity, mga laborers and those

on contractual, mga casual employees.

Okay, wait. So yung nabanggit niyong tatlo, sila yung hindi kailangan mag-file?

Hindi po,

hindi.

But all other public officials must file a SAL-ED, is that correct?

Yes.

And perhaps that includes the Vice President?

Yes.

And in relation to what you mentioned a while ago, Regardless, whether it's a

public official or the vice president herself, pinapanumpaan nila na tama yung laman ng SAL-N na yun.

Asked and answered and leading, Your Honor.

We'll just proceed, Your Honor, to the next point.

Move to the next point, Attorney James.

Thank you, po. Sige.

Madam Witness, do you recall receiving a letter dated June 16 from the House of Representatives?

Yes. And

in that letter, there was a request for you to submit the sal-ends of the Vice President from 2007 to 2025. Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

And what actions, if any, have you taken in relation to that letter?

We prepared the sal-ends and then submitted it to the House of Representatives.

And if the sal-ends are shown to you, would you be able to identify this?

Yes.

Your Honor, at this point, may I respectfully ask that Atty. Luis Perez, my assisting lawyer, also from Pekabar Lawyer Honor, to assist me in confronting the witness with the documents and perhaps to check the witness from time to time if she's still okay.

Attorney Luis is authorized. Also, corresponding assisting counsel from the respondent is also equally authorized to approach the witness at any point in time while she is testifying.

Salamat po. Please

proceed, counsel.

Sige. Ayan po, Madam Witness, pakitingin naman po yung mga dokumento na binibigay sa inyo. Kindly go over them and let us know, or let the court know, if these are the same SAL-Ns that you submitted to the House of Representatives.

To save the court some time, Your Honor, while the witness is perusing the documents, may I just manifest that the SAL-Ns of the Vice President are previously marked as P. Roman Numeral- Sorry. P Roman numeral 2-1-1A until P Roman numeral 2-1-1R. And it's Mark Inseratin, Your Honor, for your consideration, please.

Julie, noted.

Thank you.

Your Honor,

just a manifestation.

Yes.

We would like to manifest, Your Honor, that the copies of the Statement of Assets, Liabilities, and Net Worth that is currently being identified by the witness right now are redacted, Your Honor, just for the record.

Noted, Your

Honor.

Noted.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Are they all certified through copies? That

is correct, Your Honor.

Attorney Justin, you confirm?

Your Honor, yes. They are certified through copies, as they appear. But it appears that they are photocopies of certified through copies.

Okay. Noted.

For the record, yes.

Are you

ready to answer, Madam Witness?

So,

again po, ano po yung relasyon ng mga SAL-Ns or yung mga dokumentong pinakita sa inyo ngayon doon sa nabanggit nyo na sinabit nyo sa House of Representatives?

These are the same SAL-Ns that we prepared and submitted to the House of Representatives.

Sige po. Ang may magandang point po na ni-raise yung kaibigan natin from the defense at medyo naging curious na rin ako kasi sabi nila may mga reduction daw po. Gusto ko lang po maintindihan, bakit nga ba may reduction yung mga portions doon sa SAL-N?

Nirequire po kasi na i-reduct yung names ng mga minor children.

Okay. So yung rason po kung bakit redacted ay dahil?

Yung mga minor children should not be, I think, should not be involved in this. Dapat naman natin silang protektahan, di ba?

Sa lahat po ng dokumento, Atty. Bato, yung pangalan lamang ng mga minor children ang redacted?

May mga addresses din po kami na niredact, Your Honor.

Meaning, tirahan po nila?

Yes po.

Maliban po doon, mayroon pang iba?

Wala na po.

Para sa kalaman po ng publiko, ang redacted po ibig sabihin binlockout po gamit ng itim na tinta para hindi makita o mabasa. Tama po, Atty. Karn?

Tama po, Your Honor.

May proceed, counsel?

Salamat po. Sige. Diretsoy na natin yung mga silence, Madam Witness.

But so that I can proceed in a swift manner, gawin natin preterm, no? Tingnan muna natin yung SAL-Ns nung ating Vice President from 2007 to 2009. And at this point, I want to talk about the business interests of the Vice President. Your Honor,

if I may be heard, Your Honor.

Yes, Counsel for the Respondent.

Apologies, Your Honor, but right now, the defense is now constrained to object, Your Honor, to the presentation of these portions of the SAL-N on screen. Since the purpose of the witness, Your Honor, is merely to identify and authenticate the silence as submitted with the House of Representatives, Your Honor. Your Honor, allow

him

to finish. Yes, Your Honor. And as it appears, Your Honor, we cannot even determine whether these are the silence of the Vice President. But nevertheless, Your Honor, if the purpose of the witness is precisely to authenticate and to identify the silence, it has already been achieved when the witness was confronted and... And the witness has no personal knowledge on anything contained in these documents, Your Honor. The documents speaks for themselves. And to continue confronting the witness with these documents, asking her about the contents thereof, which she will only confirm, will not serve the interest of time, and is also prohibited because she has no personal knowledge over these documents.

Your Honor, I promise to be quick, Your Honor. We do not want to belabor this point. I think the Honorable Court has time and again allowed questions on the basis of records or documents as long as it will not vary the contents thereof. Insofar as the personal knowledge of the witness, it was established earlier that she is the custodian and necessarily, she has personal knowledge over the contents of these documents. But I'll be fair to the defense, Your Honor. Of course, we are not saying that She was the one who prepared it and I'm sure that will be part of their cross later on. We're not saying that. We're only saying that her personality is based as the custodian of these records. If

I may be able to briefly respond on another new matter, Your Honor.

Yes, Attorney Justin.

Your Honor, I think the prosecution should also be strictly reminded of the ruling of the presiding officer that these silence shall be exclusively used to establish the baseline. Now, if they are confronting the witness now with what appears to be Portions of the business interest, Your Honor, that is not covered within the limitations of the offer that this presiding officer has already ruled. Secondly, Your Honor, any testimony of the witness in relation to the face of these documents will now be her own interpretation which, as admitted by the prosecution themselves, she does not have personal knowledge. We request that this not be permitted with all due respect, Your Honor.

Final comment, Attorney James? Your Honor, I am a bit perplexed. How can we establish the baseline if we're not allowed to ask the questions that would elicit the facts relative to the baseline, Your Honor? So may we just invoke the previous ruling of this honorable court, Your Honor?

The objection is overruled. Witness may answer. She is testifying based on official record. She has custody of but with the limit subject to the limitation that she is not. testifying as to the truth of the content stated therein because she has no personal knowledge of it but only as to the fact that these were the assailants submitted to her and that it contained these facts as subscribed to by the Declarant. Witness may answer? Understood, Your

Honor. We would just like to record our continuing objection.

The continuing objection of counsel for the respondent, Attorney Justin, is duly noted and recorded.

Permission to proceed, Your Honor, please. Please proceed, Attorney James. Salamat. Again, balikan ko lang Madam Witness kasi gusto kong pag-usapan ngayon yung business interest ng ating Vice President. Simulan natin yung 2007 to 2009. Base po sa dokumento or yung sal-ends na finial mismo ng ating Vice President, ano po ba yung mga business interest o negosyo ng ating Vice President?

Objection, Your Honor. The witness is incompetent. And this is a different objection. My earlier objection was pertaining to what is flashed on the screen. Now my objection pertains to the question of the counsel.

What was the objection again, Your Honor?

Incompetent, Your

Honor.

Again, has no personal knowledge over these documents. The documents speak for themselves.

She can read based on what is stated in the documents, counsel, not as her personal knowledge. Again, not as the truth of what is stated therein. Because she has no personal knowledge in regard to that, but only as regards the documents she is being confronted with. And you proceed, counsel.

Salamat po. Again, your honor, for ease of reference of the honorable members of the court, the same are being, or the pertinent portions are being flashed on screen. But perhaps I can request your honor, the tech booth, to zoom it a bit para po makita nung iba. Sige po, Madam Witness. Ano po, based dun sa 2007 to 2009 SAL-N ng ating Vice President, ang dineklara niyang mga negosyo, kung meron man?

Para po sa 2007, 2008, and 2009 sall-ins ng ating Vice President, ito po yung mga naka-declare na business interests, Dabao Emerging Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, at City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation.

Sige po, salamat. Your Honor, before I proceed further, with your kind permission, I would just like to manifest a matter of mandatory judicial notice that under Section 8, of RA 6713. More specifically, Section 8, Enumeration B at C. And I think we have that on B at C. Ang sinasabi po na ang SAL-N dapat napapaloob dito ang personal property and acquisition costs. C, all other assets such as investments, cash on hand, or cash in bank, stocks, bonds, and the like. But more particularly, Your Honor, on Section B, Personal Property and Acquisition Cost. Madam Witness?

Your Honor, just a manifestation. This is the presentation of a witness, Your Honor, and it is highly improper for a counsel to discuss points of law in the middle of a presentation, Your Honor. And secondly, Your Honor, as admitted by the counsel himself, this is a matter of judicial notice. So, there is no need to discuss these matters right now, Your Honor. And in fact, they even presented a witness precisely for this matter yesterday, Your Honor.

Truly noted, counsel. It's a

manifestation. Proceed, Attorney James. Salamat po.

So, balikan natin, ma'am, yung SAL-N. Kasi gaya nung nabasa ko kanina sa Section 86713, dapat nakadeklara yung personal property at yung acquisition costs. So, doon po sa mga damanggit nyo, na businesses or negosyo ng Vice President. Meron po ba sa personal properties portion ng SAL-N na banggit na shares of stocks ng mga kumpanyang ito?

Objection. Leading, Your

Honor.

I'll reform, Your Honor.

Can reform.

Thank you. So, Madam Witness, what are the shares, if any, corresponding to the business interest declared by no less than the Vice President herself?

Para po sa 2007 SAL-N, wala pong din-declare si VP Sara na stocks or any acquisition costs. Pero

bago kayo tumuloy dyan, Madam Witness, just to clarify, doon po sa SAL-N niya, sinasabi niya na stockholder siya ng kumpanyang yan, tama?

Objection leading. It's just preliminary, Your Honor, so we'll open up our questions. That is no

longer preliminary, Your Honor. He is in the middle of his examination.

Reform counsel, you know how to get there.

Yes, Your Honor. So, doon po sa business interest na dineklara niya, ano po yung nature or connection niya sa mga business interest na ito kung meron man?

Nakalagay po dito, declared as stockholder.

Okay. But balikan ko lang, sa personal properties niya, kinukumpirman niyo kanina na wala namang nakasulat na shares of stock.

Objection. Leading again, Your Honor.

Just confirmatory, Your Honor.

The answer of the witness. Still prohibited. What was your question, Attorney James?

Your Honor, if I may extend briefly, the witness answered a while ago. That

she's a stockholder, yes.

And then I asked her now if in the personal properties, there was nothing or there was no declaration of shares of stocks. Kasi initially po, sabi niya kanina, wala daw po ang shares of stocks.

Precisely, Your Honor, we cannot allow leading questions because number one, it is prohibited during

the day.

I will have to sustain

the

objection, Counsel. Let's

find your Honor. Thank you. So again, Madam Witness, What are the shares of stocks declared by the Vice President in relation to the companies that you've just mentioned for the SAL-Ns 2007, 2008, 2009? Kung meron man.

Objection, Your Honor. Compound refers to three different documents. It's not compound. If

may I explain, Your Honor?

Not

necessarily

compound, counsel, because you mentioned that you would be dealing with these three SAL-Ns. Together, in order to abbreviate the time of the court.

Yes, sir. Understood, Your Honor.

So, again po, ano po yung shares of stocks na dineklara ng Vice President in relation dun sa mga negosyo na banggit niya, kung meron man?

Para po sa 2007, wala pong nakadeclare na stocks. Para po sa 2008, meron pong nakadeclare na stocks equity paid. Pero sa 2009,

Wala din pong nakadeclare na stocks.

Sige

po. I'll zero in on the 2007 SALN where those businesses that you've mentioned were already existing. Ang tanong ko po ito, Madam Witness, meron po bang nakadeklarang, or sorry, what is the declared acquisition cost or puhunan ng mga negosyong ito kung meron man?

Wala pong dineclare si VP Sara.

Okay, salamat po. I'm sorry. So meron pong negosyo pero walang deklaradong puhunan. Tama po ba? Yun

po yung nasa sali nyo. Alright.

Sige po. Let's proceed now to 2010 to 2012. And for context, Madam Witness, this is the time where the Vice President was elected as City Mayor of Davao City. And I think this is her first term as City Mayor of Davao City. Now briefly, Madam Witness, kindly go over those documents.

Tell us, what are the business interests or negosyo that were declared in those three salends during the first term of the Vice President as Mayor of Davao City?

Para po sa 2010 salien ng ating Vice President, nakadeclared po yung Dabao Emerging Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation, SGT Fortune Horse Corporation, at CYKT Inc.

Para

po sa 2011, Dabao Emerging Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation, SGT Fortune Horse Corporation, CYKT Inc., at ang ZELTA Matiem Salon.

ZELTA Matiem Salon. Okay, proceed for 2012.

For 2012 po, ito po yung Dabao Emerging Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, City Hall King Chow Foods Corporation, SGT Fortune Horse Corporation, CYKT Inc., Three Kids Inc. at Celta Mathiem Salon.

Okay, salamat po. But just to be fair to the Vice President, dun po sa 2011, may nabanggit kayong nadagdag na Mathiem Salon. Who owns this, Madam Witness, if you know?

Incompetent,

Your Honor. It's stated in the document, Your Honor. If she knows, Counsel. Attorney Batu, you may answer if you know.

Ang nakalagay po dito sa SAL-N, ang pangalan po ay Manassas R. Carpio. Okay,

so just to be fair to the Vice President, yung salon, hindi naman kay Vice President, kay Atty. Carpio yung salon na yun.

Nakalagay po dito, sole proprietor po.

Okay, thank you. Sige. Doon naman sa SAL-N sa nabanggit nyo, ano naman po yung shares of stocks? Kung meron man. na dineklara ng Vice President in relation to those properties or business interests.

For the record, Your Honor, the witness is intentively perusing the document, Your Honor.

Sa tatlong sal-ends po, wala pong dineclare si BP Sara.

At ano naman po yung dineklarang acquisition cost or puhunan nung mga negosyong ito? Medyo marami-rami rin na rin po, no? Ano po yung dineklarang puhunan ng Vice President sa mga negosyo na ito, kung meron man?

Base po dito sa tatlong SAL-Ns, wala pong nakadeclare na acquisition cost.

So similarly, may negosyo pero walang puhunan. Okay. Sige, I'll go now. Let's go to her second term as mayor. 2016, 2017, and 2018. With the assistance of our assisting lawyer. Okay, thank you. Sige po. Diyan naman po, ano yung mga dineklarang business interests? Vice President. Simulan muna tayo sa 2016 kasi medyo marami para hindi po kayo malito. Sa 2016 po, ano yung mga business interests or negosyo ng ating Vice President?

Based on the 2016 SAL-N, ito po yung mga naka-declare na business interests. Dabao New Royal Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, Times Square Bee Foods Corporation, SGT Fortune Horse Corporation, CYKT Inc., 3 Kids Inc. Tracking Services.

CYKT Inc. at Celta Mathiem Salon.

Okay.

Parang may napansin akong bago dyan, Madam Witness, yung Times Square Bee Foods. Kailan po nakuha or kailan po nagkaroon ng negosyong Times Square Bee Foods Corporation ng ating Vice President?

Again, incompetent, Your Honor, and misleading.

Based on records, Your Honor, again. If she knows. Thank you po.

Nakalagay po dito, date of acquisition of interest or connection, 2013.

So 2013 pa tong negosyo, base mismo kay Vice President, pero na-declare ito 2016, tama?

Your Honor, apologies. I've been giving leeway to the Good Counsel for the prosecution, but after the witness answers, he seems to be interjecting conclusions of law and facts. After the witness answers, Your Honor, this is improper and not allowed, Your Honor. May we just request him to ask the question and let the witness answer? And then proceed with the examination.

That's a reminder, counsel. Attorney James, that's a reminder, not an objection. Kindly, I would have sustained it if it were an objection. Kindly move on and ask the questions directly to the witness.

Yes, Your Honor. We will gladly comply, Your Honor. Salamat.

Ano po yung negosyo ng ating Vice President based po sa SAL-N niya noong 2017?

Para po sa 2017, based on the SAL-N po na sinubmit ni Vice President, ito po yung Dabao New Royal Taipan Corporation, Dabao Bounty Times Food Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, Times Square Bee Foods Corporation, CYKT Inc. Inc., Tapang at Malasakit Alliance for the Philippines Inc. Okay.

So how about 2018, Madam Witness? Ano po yung kanyang dineklarang negosyo sa SAL-N niya?

Para po sa 2018, based po sa submission ng SAL-N, naka-declare po yung Dabao New Royal Taipan Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, Times Square Bee Foods Corporation, Tapang at Malasakit Alliance for the Philippines Inc.

Okay, how about for the business interest of her husband? Parang hindi ko po narinig na nabanggit niyo. Ano yung business interest nung husband niya nung 2018? Kung meron man.

Sa 2018 po, wala pong nakadeclare na business interest ni Atty. Manassas-Carpio.

So, pati yung

nabanggit niyo kaninang salon, wala na dyan ngayon?

Based on the records po ng salon, wala po.

Sige po. So, for those years, Madam Witness, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Ano naman po yung shares of stocks na dineklaraan ng ating Vice President in relation to those various corporations that you've mentioned? If there are any.

Based on the records po ng tatlong salends, wala pong nakalagay na shares of stocks.

Okay po. Sige. At base dun po sa sinasabi nyo, ano naman po yung puhunan or acquisition costs ng mga kumpanyang nabanggit nyo kung meron man?

Based po dito sa SAL and submissions, wala pong nakalagay na acquisition cost. Wala pong diniclare na acquisition cost.

Alright. I'm about to end my questioning on the baseline yung 2007 to 2021. But on the final note, puntahan natin yung 2019 to 2021 na SAL ends ng Vice President. I think this is her third term. Although hindi magkakasunod-sunod. Third term as Mayor of Davao City. Now, based Madam Witness sa SAL-Ns noong 2019 and 2020, what are her business interests based on her SAL-Ns?

For

2019 and 2020 SAL-Ns, nag-declare po si VP Sara ng mga kumpanyang Dabao New Royal Taipan Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, Times Square Bee Foods Corporation, at Tapang at Malasakit Alliance for the Philippines Incorporated.

How about the business interests of Atty. Carpio, if there are any? Ano po yung nakadeklara dyan sa 2019 and 2020, kung meron man?

Wala pong din-declare si VP Sara for 2019 and 2020 SAL-Ns.

Maraming salamat Madam Witness. Last yung 2021 Madam Witness. Aside from what you mentioned, what are the business interests of the Vice President and her husband if any as declared in her SAL-N?

Para po sa 2021 SAL-N, ang nakalagay po dito na karagdagang kumpanya Listed as business interests, ito po yung Carpio Duterte Lawyers, Kale 88 Foods Corporation, 888 Bistro, Madayao Fisheries Inc. So

ito po ang mga nadagdag. Kaninong negosyo po ulit ito?

Naka-declare po ito sa pangalan ni... Manassas,

Carpio.

Statements after the answer of the witness is stricken off from the record. Move on, counsel. Sige

po. Salamat po. So, again, Madam Witness, what are the shares of stocks declared by the Vice President in the personal property portion of Dosal N in relation to her and her husband's business interests? If there are any, of course.

Based on the... Sa LN declarations, wala pong dineclare na shares of stocks si BP Sara. At

magkano naman po? How much is the declared shares, sorry, cost of acquisition or yung puhunan niya para doon sa mga businesses na nabanggit po ninyo for 2019, 2020, at 2021?

Based on the sale and submissions, wala pong nakadeclare na acquisition costs.

Maraming salamat Madam Witness for your patience and forbearance. Now let's go to 2022 and this time the Vice President has been elected as our Vice President. But before we proceed Your Honor, just again a matter of mandatory judicial notice. Under Section 13 of Article 7 of the Constitution which is Flash for ease of reference of the members of the Honorable Court. And I'll just quote the pertinent portions, Your Honor, for our testimony today that the President, Vice President, and members of the Cabinet and other deputies or assistants shall not, unless otherwise provided in this Constitution, hold any other office or employment during their tenure. They shall not, during said tenure, directly or indirectly practice any other profession, participate in any business, or be financially interested in any contract. Madam Witness, let's go to the 2022 SAL-N of the Vice President. Parehas na tanong, Madam Witness, and I'm sorry that my questions are patterned but that's precisely what we're trying to establish here. SAL-N for 2022. What are the Vice President's business and financial interests for 2022 based on her own declarations?

For the 2022 SAL-Ns, ito po yung mga nakalagay, nakadeclare na mga business interests. Dabao New Royal Taipan Corporation, Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, Times Square Bee Foods Corporation, at Tapang at Malasakit Alliance for the Philippines Inc.

Okay. How about for her spouse, Atty. Carpio? Ano yung mga na-declare akong meron man?

Naka-declare po yung Carpio Duterte Lawyers, Kale 88 Foods Corporation, 888 Bistro, at Madayaw Fisheries Incorporated.

Sige. Doon sa 2023 SAL-Ns naman po, Madam Witness, aside from what you just stated, what are the other business interests, if any, of the Vice President? and her husband, as declared in the 2023 SAL-N.

2022?

2023.

I just have to compare.

Your Honor, for the record, the witness is comparing the 2022 and 2023 SAL-N in response to my question, what other business interests, if any, did the Vice President Duterte declare, aside from what she already mentioned a while ago?

Para po sa 2023 SAL-Ns, Aside from dun sa mga nabanggit ko sa 2022, salin, eto po yung mga nadagdag. Yung Mati City Ice Plant and Cold Storage, Inc., Amianan Shores, Inc., Geometry Security and Investigation Agency, Inc. Okay.

Sige po. Salamat. Para mabilis tayo, Madam Witness, tignan na rin natin yung 2024 at 2025. What business interests, if any, did the Vice President declare in her SAL-N for 2024?

Para po sa 2024 SAL-N, naka-declare po sa SAL-N ng ating Vice President ang business interests na Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, GenCorp Industries Inc., Carpio Lawyers, formerly Carpio Duterte, 888 Bistro, Kale 88 Foods Corporation, Madayaw Fisheries Corporation, Mati City Ice Plant and Cold Storage Inc., Amianan Shores Inc., Geometry Security and Investigation Agency Inc., Cable Tow 88 Shipping and Marine Services Inc. Okay.

At base po sa SAL-N noong 2024 at 2025, ano po yung shares of stocks na dineklara ng ating Vice President in relation to the companies that you just mentioned?

Based on the 2024 and 2025 SAL-N, wala pong naka-declare na shares of stocks.

At magkano po yung puhunan, kung meron ma, na dineklarahan ng ating Vice President para doon sa various business interests na meron siya?

Before that, Your Honor, with the indulgence of this Court.

Yes,

Attorney Justin.

We will have to object to these lines of questioning, particularly on the word puhunan, Your Honor, as the Council has been misleading, as he has been... Making it seem that puhunan is equivalent to acquisition cost, Your Honor. We just like to clarify for the record that puhunan is capital, Your Honor, and not capital investment and not acquisition cost, Your Honor.

Duly noted. The Chair agrees with the distinction. Iba ang puhunan sa acquisition cost.

And another one, Your Honor, and this is precisely why we objected to the flashing of laws, Your Honor. Earlier, when the Good Counsel for the Prosecution cited Section 13, he actually stopped in the words financially interested in any contract. However, as lawyers, we need to be... fully candid to the court because that phrase is continued or in any franchise or special privilege granted by the government or any subdivision agency or instrumentality thereof including government-owned or controlled corporations or their subsidiaries your honor yes there is a there is an important distinction your honor um

your honor at this point um we're not we're not going to tally with the defense in fact we agree that I did not read the rest because I wanted to make it fast, Your Honor. Di na po issue ito kasi nabasa naman po ito ng ating mga members of the Honorable Court. So, may we just proceed, Your Honor?

And pardon, Your Honor, if this is not an issue, Your Honor, then the counsel should not be reading portions of the law which he admitted he did not read, Your Honor. Now, we have been giving leeway to the prosecution and we have objected to the addition of manifestations in relation to the law which clearly This honorable court is the only one capable of and is duty bound to construe. Now, if they are going to cite the law, they must at least be candid and cite it fully, Your Honor.

Your Honor, this appears to be an oral argument. Now we're here to present the witness. May we just proceed, Your Honor? We're not arguing with the other counsel, Your Honor.

The comments of Attorney Justin are noted and well taken. Counsel, proceed accordingly. Thank

you, Your Honor.

I'm not sure if you were able to answer my last question so just let me ask it again. Based on the SAL-Ns of the Vice President from 2024 to 2025 and in relation to the various business interests that you've mentioned, what is the acquisition cost? As the presiding officer said, kapital na nakadeklara sa kanyang SAL-N.

Capital, Your Honor. Can we just

use acquisition cost? May nakalagay pong acquisition cost? Attorney Karen?

Based po dito sa 2024 and 2025, Sal, and wala pong nakalagay na acquisition cost, Your Honor. Okay.

Salamat po. Sige, Madam Witness. Maraming salamat po sa patience niyo. Ngayon gusto ko namang pag-usapan yung cash declarations ng ating Vice President. But before that, How long have you been with the Office of the Ombudsman again?

Since 2010.

2010. Prior to that, saan po kayo nagtrabaho?

I've worked for the Bureau of Fire Protection since from 2003 to 2009.

So from 2003 up to the present, you have been a public officer?

Yes.

And as public officer, familiar kayo sa SALN, tama po?

Yes, sir.

At... Kayo mismo yung nag-fill up nung SAL-N yun. Tama po.

Yes, sir.

At doon po sa SAL-N, kindly correct me if I'm wrong, meron pong personal property portion. Tama po.

Yes, sir.

So base po doon sa experience nyo, 2003, 2026, ano ba yan? Mahina ko sa mati. 22, 23?

23.

23 years. Base po sa karanasan nyo for 23 years as a public officer, ano po ba yung nilalagay sa Personal properties portion ng SAL-N.

Objection, Your Honor. Speculative. And vague, Your Honor.

We've laid the foundation, Your Honor, given her 23 years. And in fact, she is coming from the office of the Ombudsman. With your kind permission, please.

If she knows, counsel, Attorney Karen, you may

answer

if you know.

Based on my own submission of SAL-N, ang nilalagay ko po sa personal properties is yung sasakyan.

Mga ibang kagamitan, mga appliances kung meron man, mga jewelries, and yung cash on hand and cash in bank.

Sige. Doon sa cash on hand at cash on bank, paano niyo po dinideclare itong cash on hand at cash on bank?

Ako personally, nagdideclare po ako ng cash on hand.

Kung ano yung hawak ko as of December 31 of that year. And then pagdating po sa cash in bank, kung ano po yung balance ko noong December 31 of that year.

And how specific are you when you declare that?

Well,

it's for an opinion, Your Honor.

And relevance, Your Honor. What

is the relevance

of this?

Yes, counsel. Move on to your next point. We've given you enough leeway with respect to the salon of Attorney Karen, which has no relation to this particular issue. I just

got curious with my own line of questioning, Your Honor. Sorry, sorry.

Kindly move on, counsel.

Okay. Sabi ko sa inyo nga, Madam Witness, pag-usapan natin yung cash on hand or cash in bank ng ating Vice President.

Let's go to her 2007 SAL-N. Magkano po, base sa dokumento ng opisina ninyo, ang cash declaration ng ating Vice President?

Para po sa 2007 SAL-N, nag-declare po si VP Sara na cash on hand and bank, 2 million pesos.

How about 2008?

Para po sa 2008, nag-declare po ng parehong amount si BP Sara na 2,000,000 pesos.

How about 2009?

Para po sa 2009, ang declaration po na cash on hand bank ay 2,800,000 pesos.

How about 2010?

Para

po sa 2010, ang declaration po na cash on hand bank ay 3,661,622 pesos.

How about 2011?

Para po sa 2011, ang naka-declare na cash on hand bank ni BP Sara ay 3,931,125 pesos and 80 centavos.

How about 2012?

For 2012 po ang naka-declare na cash on hand bank ay 4,320,532 pesos.

How about 2016?

Para po sa 2016, ang naka-declare na cash on hand bank ay 3,750,760 pesos.

How about 2017? And I'm almost done, Madam Witness, so I beg your indulgence.

For 2017, the declared cash on hand bank by the Vice President is Php 6

,368,596

2018

po, ano po yung naka-declare?

For 2018, ang naka-declare po na cash ay Php 3,795,000 Sige po.

Yung next po ay

2018. Next slide.

2019. Ano po yung cash declaration ng 2019 ng ating Vice President? Kung meron man.

For 2019 po, wala pong dineclare na cash on hand or in bank si BP Sara.

How about for 2020?

Ganun din po. For sale and 2020, wala pong nakadeclare na cash on hand or in bank.

Sige. To expedite the proceedings so that we can... Finish this, Madam Witness. Tuloy na lang po natin. Onwards, ano po yung cash declaration nung ating Vice President after 2020?

Kung

meron man.

For SALNs 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025, wala pong nakadeclare na cash on hand or in bank.

Okay. Sige. Madam Witness, I... Out of curiosity, I recall an interview before that cash can be, I think that the interview was one of the good counsels from the defense, na yung cash ay pwedeng ilump sa other personal properties. I'm not going to ask if that's allowed or not, but what I want to know, based on the silence of the Vice President from 2019, ano yung mga dideklara niya ang other personal properties? Simulan natin sa 2019, nung mga panahon wala na po siyang nadeklara, based sa testimony ninyo. Cash. Ano po yung others or other personal properties ng Vice President sa 2019 base sa kanyang sariling SAL-N?

Objection, Your Honor. Misleading. The good counsel premises question na nawala na siyang nadeklara, Your Honor. That would be misleading, Your Honor. It had no particular reference to any matter and there was no basis, Your Honor. It's misleading.

I

presume she's referring to cash on hand.

Yes, Your Honor.

Witness will answer based on that, please. Thank

you po.

If you know, if you know, Attorney Karen.

So again, Madam Witness, noong 2019, ano na po yung ano po yung nakadeklara na other personal properties or others ng Vice President based sa kanyang SAL-ED?

For Sal-N 2019, nakadeclare po yung other personal properties, various items. Isa pa ulit, other personal properties, various items.

How about for Atty. Carpio? What is the declaration based on her Sal-N of other personal properties, if there are any?

Para po kay Atty. Manassas Carpio, ang nakadeclare po dito ay other personal properties.

At magkano po yung nakadeklara sa other personal properties ni Atty. Carp? Yung kung meron man.

3,500,000 pesos.

For 2020, Madam Witness, para po mas mabilis, pwede niyo pong sagutin ito. Ano po yung nakadeklara ang other personal properties ng Vice President, based sa kanyang salen, at nung kanyang asawa, kung meron man?

Nakadeclare po na... Other personal properties, various items. At isa pa ulit, other personal properties, various items. At magkano po? Para po sa unang other personal properties, ito po ay nakadeklara na nagkakahalaga ng 2,250,000. At sa pangalawang other personal properties, ito po ay nakadeklara na nagkakahalaga ng 3,000,000 pesos.

How about for Atty. Carpio, kung meron?

Nakalagay po, Para kay Atty. Manasa-Scarpio, other personal properties, ito po ay nagkakahalaga ng 3,500,000 pesos.

How about for 2021? How much did the Vice President declare, if there are any, corresponding to her other personal properties and that of her husband, if there are any of course?

Para po sa 2021 SAL-N, nakadeclare po dalawang other personal properties, parehong various items. Nagkakahalaga po ito ng isang 2,250,000 at isang 3,000,000 pesos.

Yung kay Atty. Carpe po, magkano kung meron?

Nakadeclare po sa SAL-N na other personal properties.

Nagkakahalaga ng 8,075,000 pesos.

For 2023, and I'm really sorry that we're going over this at medyo matagal, but I hope you understand. For 2023, ano naman po yung other personal properties or how much is the other personal properties that were declared by the Vice President corresponding to her other personal properties and that of her husband?

For 2023 SAL-N, nakalagay po dito yung other personal properties. Ito po ay nagkakahalaga ng 6,650,000. Para po kay Atty. Manasseh-Scarpio, nakadeclare po yung other personal properties. Nagkakahalaga din po ito ng 8,075,000 pesos.

Last two years po, Madam Witness. For 2024, how much is declared if there are any? Corresponding to the other personal properties of the Vice President and her husband.

Various na nagkakahalaga ng Php 8

,671,875 At for others, nakadeclare po ang halagang Php 6,633,340.02 And

lastly for 2025, magkano po kung meron man yung other personal properties ng ating Vice President at ng kanyang asawa?

Para po sa sale ng 2025, nakadeclare po na others ang halagang 16,202,290 pesos and 20 centavos. Para po kay Atty. Manassas R. Carpio, nakadeclare po yung amount na bar use na 2,100,010 pesos.

At para po sa others, nakadeclare po ang amount na P10,857,186. Sige

po. Maraming salamat and I thank your patience, Madam Witness. Kung gusto niyo pong uminom ng tubig, may tubig po dyan.

Thank you.

Sige po. I'm on to my last line of questioning, Madam Witness. Now I want to talk about the net worth of the Vice President. So again, just based on your records. Sige, inumpo muna kayo.

So just based on your records po, kindly look at 2007.

The SALN of the Vice President in 2007, the first year she entered elective public office. Magkano po ang nakadeklarang net worth or yaman ng ating Vice President in 2007?

Ang nakadeklar po na net worth po ng ating Vice President for the SALN 2007, Ito po ay declared as 7,250,497 pesos.

How about in 2008? And I promise to be very quick after this. How about in 2008? What is the declared net worth of the Vice President in 2008 after one year in public office?

For 2008, the declared net worth is 18,493,616 pesos and 65 centavos.

Okay, so tama po Madam Witness, no? After one year lang sa public office, sobra doble na yung tinaas ng kanyang net worth based on the records only.

Again, Your Honor, we move to strike those statements, Your Honor. Objection to those statements.

Counsel, you already know, kindly move on. So stricken.

We'll comply, Your Honor. Salamat po. Thank

you, Your Honor.

Sige po. 2009, Madam Witness, and let's go quickly. 2009, how much is the net worth or ano ba yung tagalog ng net worth?

Yaman Ano po ba yung net worth or yaman ng Vice President in 2008?

I've given leeway to the good counsel and I've complied with all his requests. But I don't think that the good counsel can muzzle or gag the prosecution. Short of any improper or any offensive matter that I may have said, there's nothing so far. So may I just ask the good counsel, Your Honor, to allow me to ask the questions?

A brief response, Your Honor. When they allow the witness to testify, Your Honor, they stated that the witness will be identifying the documents. Now here comes the counsel from prosecution. I am not done. And here comes the counsel from prosecution, using words that are outside the document themselves. That is why, precisely, we are asking, gently and respectfully, that they just use the document as used in the document, Your Honor. I

also cannot translate net worth, counsel.

Your Honor, apologies. Ang pinakamalapit na sigurong pagsasalin sa wikang Pilipino, kabuoang pagmamayari. which presumes binawas na yung utang.

Yes, Your Honor. And I apologize, Your Honor. It was not the intention of the prosecution to use the word. As I mentioned, Your Honor, I'm from Mindanao so I'm not really particular.

Let's use

net worth then in the absence of an agreed Tagalog or Filipino translation.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Please proceed, Attorney James.

Salamat po. We'll comply accordingly, Your Honor. Thank you. Sige po,

Madam Witness. I think I was in

the year 2010. How much? What is

the net worth of the vice president in 2010 based on her own declarations?

For 2010, the declared net worth is 16,242,886 pesos and 65 centavos.

So, okay. 2012 po, sorry, 2011. What is the net worth of the vice president?

For 2011, the declared net worth... is 14,271,148 pesos and 45 centavos.

2012,

Madam Witness.

For 2012, ang net worth po ay 22,116,101 pesos and 93 centavos. Okay,

so how about 2016? Ano po yung net worth nung ating Vice President?

For 2016, the net worth is P34,895,997.

2017, ano po yung kanyang net worth?

For 2017, declared net worth is P44,828,759.

How

about in 2018? What is the Vice President's net worth?

For 2018, the declared net worth of the Vice President is Php 49

,699,728. How

about in 2019? What is the net worth of the Vice President?

For 2019, it's 55,613,051 pesos.

For

the guidance, with the indulgence of Attorney James, for the guidance of the Senator-Judges as well as the public who may be viewing, yung mga taon pong nakalagay sa bandang kaliwa in 2007 hanggang 2019, yan po yung taon nung SAL-N, pero finile po yung SAL-N sa susunod na taon. So ang SALN po ng 2008 ay tungkol po sa 2007 niyang yaman. Ang SALN po ng 2009 final ay SALN niya o yaman niya noong 2008 or the year previous. Dahil ang SALN po, fina-file the following year, ika-30 ng Abril, kaugnay sa kabuang yaman ng sino mang opisyal as of December 31 of the previous year. Just for clarification, so itong table mo, Attorney James, yung mga taong nasa kaliwa, yan yung taon talaga nung kabuha ang yaman niya?

Yes, Your Honor. Just to clarify, Your Honor, when we say 2007, that pertains to her SAL-N, 2007 but was filed in 2008.

Exactly.

But as of December 31,

2007,

as

you

eloquently put, Your Honor.

As stated by the Presiding Officer. Okay, proceed, Counsel.

Maraming salamat po. 2020. 2020, Madam Witness, ano po yung net worth or kabuoang net worth ng ating Vice President noong 2020?

Kabuoang halaga. Netong halaga. As per corrected by the Honorable Senator Lacson.

For 2020 SAL-N, the declared net worth is P56,583,735.10.

Sige

po. Sa 2021, what is the net worth or netong halaga ng ating Vice President? Kung meron man po.

For 2021 SAL-N, the declared net worth of the Vice President is P65,308,841.

So

prior to her election as Vice President, she started with 2007 corresponding to 7,250,497. And in 2021, this is now 65,308,841. And this forms part of our baseline. Punta na natin ngayon yung 2022 ng ating Vice President. Magkano na po ang net worth or netong halaga ng ating vice president in 2022?

For 2022, SALN, the declared net worth of the vice president is 71,658,841 pesos.

And

in 2023, magkano na po or how much is the net worth of the vice president in 2023?

For 2023, ang naka-declare po na net worth ng ating Vice President ay 77,508,841 pesos.

Okay, in 2024, and I'm almost done Madam Witness, Your Honors. In 2024, what is the net worth or netong halaga, and I'm starting to like that word, netong halaga ng ating Vice President in 2023?

2023? 2024?

Sorry, 2024.

For 2024, ang nakalagay po na net worth ng ating Vice President ay 88,512,370 pesos and 22 centavos.

And

lastly, Madam Witness, currently, what is the net worth or netong halaga ng ating Vice President in 2025?

For the year 2025, the declared net worth of the Vice President is Php

98,656,131.20.

Okay.

And my last question, Madam Witness. I hope this is the last question. 2007, Madam Witness, we started at Php 7 million based on your testimony. Php 7

,250,497. And in all the years of the Vice President, Umakyat na ngayon sa 98 million ang kanyang net worth habang siya ay naggo-gobyerno. Tama po ba based sa testimony niyo?

Based po dun sa mga binasa kong SALN, yun po yung halagang naka-declare sa kanyang mga sinubmit na SALN sa Office of the Ombudsman.

Sige po. Madam Witness, maraming salamat po sa inyong pasensya. Your Honors, I thank your patience and forbearance for allowing me to ask those questions. That would conclude my direct examination, Your Honor.

Would you like to already cross, Attorney Justin, or cross after lunch?

May we request that we be allowed to conduct it after lunch, Your Honor.

Okay, you may do so. In the meantime, we will try to make use of the time by allowing the Senator-Judges to make their interjections. The first stand I see raising subject to Annika's clearance would be Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. You're recognized, sir. You have two minutes. Unless Annika has a subsequent list, kindly give it to me.

Maraming salamat po ginong presiding officer. Madam Witness, ang para po sa kalay-

Ang SAL-N po ba dapat ay official lang mismong sasagot o pwede siyang mag-appoint ng accountant ng sino man para gawin ang SAL-N niya tapos ito ay susumpaan niya na lamang po sa isang notaryo? Pwede po ba ito o hindi pwede?

That will call for an opinion, Your Honor. Pero ako po, I can only answer as to my own experience. Ako po yung nagpiprepare ng sarili kong salin.

Ah, okay. So iba-iba. Moving forward, labag po ba sa batas kung sa inyong experience as record holder, OIC po kayo, tama po ba?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Labag ba sa batas kung tumaas ang salin ng opisyal? Ma'am?

Sa

akin pong palagay po, nagkakaroon po talaga tayo ng increase sa ating mga SAL-Ns.

Tama

po. Kunwari, paano kung may binenta siyang property or ariyan o ay kumita po yung kanyang negosyo? Is that possible, ma'am? Or kailangan niyang i-declare na yun para makita ba sa SAL-N yun?

Based on my experience din po, Your Honor, pag kasi may binenta kang property, magre-reflect siya dun sa ibang party ng SAL-N mo, but mariremove siya sa iyong mga other properties for say personal property or real property.

Okay. Ma'am, bihira po ba sa SAL-N na walang cash on hand declaration?

Ano po ba ang sinasabi ng batas? Kayo po ay abogado. What does it mean when you say cash on hand? Ito po ba ay pera na hawak mo sa kamay, pera mo sa bahay, o pera mo sa bangko? What is it?

Again, Your Honor, this is just my opinion because I'm not an expert pagdating po dyan sa mga... SALN. As I said po, the office of the Central Records Division is merely a repository of SALNs. But based on my experience po in accomplishing my own SALN, yung cash on hand po, I interpreted it as mga cash po na hawak ko at my disposal po. Nasa bulsa ko, nasa pitaka ko, nasa bahay ko.

Okay. Pwede

rin sa alcancea o

sa banko?

Yung cash in bank po, yun po yung mga nasa banko na nakadeposito.

Alright. So, kailangan kung may, when you are ikang accomplishing yung SAL-N mo, dapat tignan mo yung pitaka mo o sa vault mo kung may pera ka o wala. Paano kung at that very moment, eh wala ka pong pera. At that very moment, you're accomplishing your SAL-N.

Pwede naman po talagang mangyari yun na kung at the end of the year, December 31, wala ka po talagang hawak na pera sa bahay, pwede po talagang zero yung declaration mo.

Oo po, kasi nagkatatapos na ng Pasko, di po ba? Anyway ma'am, paano po kung questionable ba kung tumaas yung SAL-N niya? Dapat mo ba magduda? Paano kung yung kanyang magulang binigyan po siya ng mana o yung kanyang asawa, negosyante, o ito honey or sweetheart, o anak, ito ang 5 million, 10 million, inideklara mo pa rin yun? Tama po ba?

Based po sa konting nalalaman ko at sarili kong interpretation po, pag may mga donation po na properties, kailangan po din yun ideclare at ang mode of acquisition po ay donation.

All right. Thank you, Ms. Witness. Presiding Officer, thank you, sir.

Thank you. While waiting for other Senator-Judges, the Presiding Officer has some interjections. Attorney Karen, tinanong kayo kanina kung magkano yung acquisition cost ng mga korporasyon. Tama po ba?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Pakituro naman sa akin kung saan nakalagay yung blanco sa acquisition cost sa SALEN. Kindly show her the SALEN, Sir Lerson.

Meron po bang nakalaan na blanco para sa acquisition cost sa business interest?

Para po sa business interest and financial connections, wala

pong nakalagay na acquisition cost, Your Honor.

Sinabi niyo po yan kanina, pero ang tanong ko, yung form po ba, may nakalaan bang blanco para sa acquisition cost?

Tama po yung sagot niyo kanina na walang nakalagay na acquisition cost, pero... May nakalagay po bang blanco para sa acquisition cost sa form?

Para po sa assets, sa real properties and personal other properties. Ang

pinag-uusapan po

natin, business.

Sa business po, Your Honor, wala pong nakalagay na acquisition cost.

So, hindi po hinihiling ng SAL and FORM na ilagay ang acquisition cost?

Pagdating po sa business interest and financial connections, Your Honor.

Tama nga po yung sagot niyo. Walang nakalagay na acquisition cost pero hindi rin po kasi hinihiling sa SAL-N na ilagay yung acquisition cost ng business interest. Tama po ba? Dahil kung gusto niyo pong ilagay, saan niyo po lalagay?

Ang tanong, if I may clarify your honor, ang pagkakaintindi ko po sa tanong sa akin kanina ni Atty. James is

Unang tanong po niya kasi is kung merong nakadeclare sa personal properties na stocks.

Hindi po. Yung unang bahagi ng tanong ay kaugnay sa acquisition cost ng business interest ng stock ng shareholdings. So, wala pong nakalagay. Tama po yun. Hindi po kayo nagsabi ng hindi totoo. Pero para klaruhin lang po natin, wala rin naman pong puwang, blanco, table, parte.

Sa mga business interests and financial connections, your honor, wala pong nakalagay na para sa acquisition costs.

Sa inyong tanggapan sa Luzon, Visayas at Mindanao, sa local officials, gayon din sa President at Vice President. Tama po ba?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Ano po yung inyong

review and compliance procedure kung meron man bilang repository ng salen ng Pangulo, ikalawang Pangulo at mga head ng executive agencies?

Ang Review and Compliance Committee po usually is sa mga head of the agencies po. Tapos sinasubmit na lang po nila sa Office of the Ombudsman as the repository agency.

Hindi po kayo yan?

Hindi po kami yan.

Sa loob po ng Office of the Ombudsman meron po kayong Compliance and Review Committee?

Para po sa mga empleyado ng Ombudsman, Your Honor, meron po.

Ano po yung alam niyong procedure kaugnay nun?

Nire-review po siya as to the form, usually, Your Honor. Kung

sumunod o hindi?

Apo.

So, pag hindi po sumunod, papadalan presumably ng notification iyong empleyado na, Hoy, may hindi ka finilapan o Hoy, mali yung pagkaka-fill up mo. Gano 'n

po ba yan?

Sa amin po, based on my experience, Your Honor, binalik po yung SAL-N at sinabi kung ano yung mga kailangang pil-upan or kung mali yung form na nagamit.

Lumipas na po ang April 30, binalik yung SAL-N. Ang sabihin na natin, Hunyo, pwede pong i-correct pa rin siya ng empleyado.

Pagdating po sa amin, Your Honor, April 30, ang submission po kasi based... Siyempre,

doon po lang po nakita ng compliance interview committee niyo, di ba? Pag-submit. E din nakita niyo may kulang. Babalik niyo po. Sabi niyo nga po, di ba? Iko-correct niya. So sabihin natin, nabalik ng May 1, May 2.

Pwede po niya i-correct yun, di ba?

Tama po, Your Honor. Kasi doon po sa SALN guidelines namin nakalagay na we still have until June 30 to submit the... SALNs to the repository agency.

To

the repository agency?

Yes po.

Sa ibig sabihin po nun, pag na-submit na po kasi sa repository, hindi na po pwedeng baguhin. Di ba yun ang nakalagay sa Civil Service Memorandum Circular?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Pero nakalagay din dun sa parehong GS Memorandum Circular ng Civil Service, pwedeng i-correct ng deklarant yung SALN niya. Sa susunod na taon, hindi po ba?

Ang requirement

lang po is as long as it is based on honest mistake and or good faith.

Yes, Your Honor.

Nagkamali ako ng deklarasyon ko ng 2025.

May nasulat ako mali doon. Sa susunod na taon, 2026, pag-file ko sa 2027, pwede ko i-correct yun.

Pwede

po ba yan?

Again, Your Honor, I am not an expert as the Central Records Division is merely a repository of the records.

Yes, but

since you're a repository, you're aware the Vice President corrected herself and twice.

For 2025 po, meron po siyang sinadmit na amendment.

Actually, sa pagkakaalam ko, noong 2017 may sinadmit siyang amendment for 2016.

Sa 2016 sa ala niya at noong 2020 nag-submit siya ng pagbabago sa 2019 sa ala niya. That should be in your records, correct?

Ang nakalagay lang po na check po namin is for the 2025 po kasi after doong submission ng May medyo po ulit dumating noong June na amendment po.

So ang alam nyo lang po yung 2025 correction?

Yes. Ang ginagawa po kasi namin, Your Honor, basta yung mga SAL-Ns po, tinatanggap po namin yan basta sinubmit sa amin.

So, you're saying based on your record, walang corrected SAL-N na sinubmit si Vice President Sara nung 2020 kaugnay sa 2019 SAL-N niya?

Based on our records, Your Honor, yun po yung mga SAL-Ns na sinubmit niya, yung mga binigay po namin sa House of Representatives.

So, wala nga po kayong kopya nung dalawang SAL-N niya for 2019. Isang sinubmit ng June, isang sinubmit ng August 2020.

Based on our records po, yun lang po yung mga SAL-Ns na meron. Kung meron pong ibang SAL-N, wala po kaming nakita sa records namin.

Gayun din po sa SAL-N ng 2016, wala po kayong corrected SAL-N ng 2017 na sidabmit makalipas ang isang buwan ng April 30. Wala rin po. So tigitigisang SAL-N lang po sa lahat ng taon maliban sa 2025.

Meron pong ibuy your honor na parang kasi may exit SAL-N, so parang may dumoble. May exit SAL-N siya.

Ano pong ibig sabihin ng exit

salen, ma'am? Parang nung matapos po yung term niya sa government for that year, nagsubmit siya ng salen niya.

Ginawa lang po yun noong June 30, ma'am, 2022. Dahil may bago po siyang posisyon, so kailangan niya magsubmit ng salen niya as of June 30, 2022. Matapos siyang mahalal bilang vicepresidente, nagsubmit po siya ng August 2022. Nagsubmit uli siya ng April...

2023, kaugnay sa December 31, 2022, SAL-N niya. Yun po yung taon na dalawa talaga ang sinabit niya. Hindi po yun yung correction na sinasabi ko.

Opo. Pero based on our records, Your Honor, yun po yung dalawang, may dalawang SAL-N siya.

Yung ibang corrected po, wala na.

Yung ibang corrected na binabanggit ko po, wala na. Noong 2017, filing, kaugnay sa 2016, SAL-N, at yung 20... 20 filing kaugnay ng 2019 Sall-in na may sinubmit po siyang dalawang correction sa Sall-in niya.

Wala po kayong copy nun?

Your Honor, based on our records, yun lang po yung mga Sall-ins na meron kami. Yun po yung sinubmit namin sa House of the Representatives.

Bilang

Mayor, sinasubmit po nila yan sa Deputy Ombudsman for Mindanao. Hindi po ba?

Tama po, Your Honor.

Lahat

po ba pino-forward sa inyo?

Hindi po. Sila din po yung repository nun, Your Honor.

Hindi ikaw?

Tell me po sa Central Records Division ang hawak lang po namin is the President, Vice President, the Constitutional Commissions po.

But ma'am you testified on the SALN of the Vice President earlier before she became Vice President.

Yes, Your Honor, because we requested upon receiving the subpoena of the House of Representatives, we requested those silence.

But as a

natural course, hindi na po pinapadala sa inyo yung records pag hindi niyo po nire-request. Nandoon na

po sa kanila.

Yes, Your Honor. Okay.

Senator-Judge Pangilinan is recognized. We can entertain Senator-Judges until 12 noon to take advantage of the time. Senator-Judge Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Villanueva, thereafter, Senator-Judge Sotto.

You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. It's actually a follow-up to the points raised by the Presiding Officer. Atty. Batu, sabi po ninyo na noong 2017 at 20, yung walang corrected SALN in your possession, tama po ba?

Opo, Your Honor.

Dalawang beses daw kasi, according to our presiding officer, Kinorek. Would you know kung yung sinubmit ninyo sa House of Representatives and I would assume hanggang dito sa impeachment court, would you know if it was a corrected copy? Kasi sabi nyo isa lang eh. Or the original copy?

Your Honor, I... Kasi

isa lang, di ba? Dalawang sinubmit, pero yung pangalawang dalawang sinubmit, corrected.

So

ang tanong ko, yung sinabit ba ninyo sa house as based on this subpoena ay yung corrected? Kaya isa lang? O yung hindi corrected? Would you know? Would you know? If

you know.

Opo, Your Honor.

Prior to her tenure as the Vice President, sa Mindanao po kasi galing yun. Kasi sila po yung for the local government officials ng Mindanao area. So nung nag-request po kami sa kanila, upon receiving the subpoena from the House of the Representatives, yun po yung binigay nilang salihan sa amin, Your Honor.

So, to answer Senator-Judge Pangilinan, actually what was submitted was not the corrected version because the correction only pertained to minor matters. The name of a relative that was omitted in 2019 and the address of her father, unofficial also at that time, in 2016.

So they did not reflect it anymore in the salin. It was simply contained in a letter. Correcting. Okay.

Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Presiding Officer. Maraming salamat, ma'am.

Thank you, po.

Thank you, Senator-Judge Villanueva. Is recognized. You have two minutes, sir.

Yes,

thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. Ma'am, just to be clear lang, under the rules applicable to each of the respondents' SALN in 2019 to 2024, para lang po malinaw yung timeline po. Kung mayroon po pang discrepancy sa SAL-N hanggang kailan po maaaring itama o kumpletuhin ang isang SAL-N matapos itong ma-file at anong particular event ang nagsasara po ng correction period?

Sir, from what I know, based on the omnibus SAL and guidelines, once it's submitted to the repository agency, parang you cannot have any amendments or changes. Final na po yun. That's the omnibus SAL and guidelines provisions po.

Patay po doon sa records na binabanggit po ninyo na kayo yung nagbabantay, ipinalam po ba? Sa respondent, Vice President, ang mga particular na discrepancy kung meron man na sinasabing nakita sa kanya pong salin at binibigyan po ba siya ng pagkakataong ipaliwanag o itama ang mga ito pag hindi pa napupunta dun sa repository?

I wouldn't know that sir kasi as I've said the office of the ombudsman is merely a repository agency so kung yung correction po dapat nasa review and compliance committee ng agency not with the office of the ombudsman po. So

pag na-receive po ang nangyayari lang po is that's it wala pong nagbe-verify or anything na ginagawa para kunyari po ma-ensure na yung na-submit na salin ay Kompleto po in form and in substance. Wala pong ganoon.

We just checked lang po kung halimbawa kasi ang nagsasubmit na po sa amin ng SAL-N is the head of the agency. So nagbibigay po yan ng list kung sino yung mga compliant, non-compliant, at hindi nagsasubmit pa. So biniverify lang po namin based on the listings kung nandun po yung mga pangalan ng mga SAL-Ns na yun.

Ibig sabihin pagdating po sa inyo, verified na yun ng form and substance. Salamat po. Isa na lang po dun sa maingat nating nais maintindihan tungkol po doon sa paglalamp ng cash on hand at cash in bank dun po sa item ng other personal assets. Ito po ba ay karaniwang ginagawa o unusual na yung cash in hand, cash in bank? Pwede mong ilamp doon sa other assets?

I'm not an expert pagdating sa mga ganyang usapin sa SAL-N and how other government officials filled out their SAL-Ns. So I cannot make any inference or conclusion as to that matter.

Tinanong ko po ito kasi doon sa 2025. 2025 lang po in-issue ng Civil Service yung guidelines na kung saan binabanggit po dito na dapat maging particular ka doon sa iyong tinatawag na cash declaration doon po sa section 26 ng memo guidelines nila. So ang tanong ko po, previously yung 2024, 2023, 2022, wala pa po itong guidelines na ito. Sa inyo pong pananaw bilang isang abogado at matagal na po nandyan sa ombudsman? Pupwede po ba na nung hindi pa lumalabas itong memo na ito ng 2025, pupwede po ba na ilump yung cash on hand o cash in bank doon po sa tinatawag na other assets po?

Your Honor, again, I'm not competent to answer that. I can only answer as to my own experience.

Parang even... Prior to this 2025 sale-in, nagde-declare na kami ng cash on hand, cash in bank separately.

Meaning sa inyong experience, even before the issuance of these guidelines, hindi nila lump sa other assets ang cash or cash in bank? In your experience.

In my experience, Your Honor.

Salamat po, Madam Vice. Thank you, Mr. President.

Without correcting the witness, the Chair would like to spread into the records Section 96 of the Omnibus Rules on Salen.

Corrective action after submission to repository agency. Upon submission of the original SAL-Ns with the Repository Agency, as outlined under Rule 9, corrections or amendments in the entries upon the initiative of the Declarant shall no longer be allowed. But it has a second paragraph. In the subsequent compliance on the filing of the SAL-N, any correction of entries non-disclosure of which was unintended or made in good faith shall be deemed a correction of the previous year's SALN. So, pwede po makorect sa susunod na taon kung based in good faith nga po. Senator-Judge Sotto is recognized. Apologies for the slight delay.

No problem, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you very much. And just to support what Senator Villanueva has mentioned, for the record, and in addition to what you have mentioned, there is a Civil Service Commission resolution.

Number 1300174, issued January 24, 2013, which states that you have 30 days non-extendable from receipt of the order from your agency's head or office to complete or correct your SALN. Mayroong ganun pala silang Civil Service Commission. But I have only one question, Mr. President. And this is an issue na...

Atty.

Witness, a bank deposit denominated in a foreign currency is still an asset of the declarant, di po ba?

Hindi ko po masasagot yan, Your Honor.

Counsel for the Prosecution.

What

is the

question, Your Honor? Again, sorry.

A bank deposit denominated in foreign currency is still an asset of the declarant. Tama po ba?

Yes, of course, Your Honor.

Okay. Ganun din ano. The... Attorney Poa. Attorney Justin, go ahead.

Yes, Your Honor. Correct.

Okay.

Sorry, may I clarify the question, Your Honor?

Yung pong mga bank deposits na denominated in a foreign currency, dapat nakadeklara rin sa solid. Di po ba?

We will defer the construction of the law to the impeachable, ah, to the Senator-Judges, Your Honor. We'd rather not comment on matters of law.

Ah, okay. Now, sa tagal niyo po doon, Attorney, sa Ombudsman, at saka repository kayo.

Nakikita niyo po ba na doon sa mga SALNs na ang mga nagde-deposit at nakasubmit ng mga SALNs sa inyo, doon sa cash on hand nila o cash on bank, may nagde-deklara ng foreign currency?

I'm sorry, Your Honor, but we do not check po isa-isa kung ano yung mga nakalagay po na mga items na dinideclare ng mga declarant natin. We merely check po as to the forms tapos po kung nasa list sila. Pero as to the details stated therein, hindi po namin yan chinecheck, Your Honor.

So hindi mo, ikaw mismo, hindi mo napapansin na let's say doon sa cash on hand? Meron silang kung ilang milyon o ilang daan libo nakalagay, di ba? Ano, puro pesos ba nakikita niyo nun? Hindi, I'm not pertaining to the silence of the Vice President. Doon sa mga dati ninyo, sa mga lahat, sa kalahatan,

meron

po ba na nagdideklara o hindi nagdideklara?

Again, Your Honor, we do not check po yung mga items na nilalagay nila sa mga silence nila. We merely check as to the forms po.

With the indulgence of Senator Judge Sotto, if I may read into the records, Section 35 of the Omnibus Rules. Foreign currency. Personal properties such as cash on hand and in bank, as well as stocks and the like, denominated in foreign currency, shall be converted for purposes of declaration into the corresponding Philippine currency equivalent at the rate of exchange prevailing. A. On the date of assumption to office for those entering government service, B, as of December 31 of the preceding calendar year for the annual filing, and C, on the date of separation from the service for those leaving the government service. So dinedeklara po pero sa piso na po, hindi

sa kung anumang foreign currency. All right. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. My question was answered.

Thank

you, Your Honor.

Senator-Judge Hontiveros is recognized.

Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Madam Witness, isang clarificatory question lamang po para malinaw. Kapag stockholder ng kumpanya, tama po ba na considered personal property yung shares of stock at kailangan i-declare kung magkano yung acquisition cost? ng shares sa ilalim ng personal properties.

Your Honor, I'm sorry but I'm not in the position to answer that. As again, the Office of the Ombudsman is merely a repository agency of this Salen.

Alright. Kung ganun, salamat Madam Witness. Kung ganun po, Mr. Presiding Officer, kung pwede kong itanong yung prosecution at yung defense. So, Atty. James, kailangan bang i-deklara? kung magkano yung acquisition cost nung shares na yun sa ilalim ng personal properties kung shareholders sa kumpanya.

Salamat po sa tanong, Madam, Your Honor. Hindi na po ako sasagot po based on my knowledge but I'll just refer Your Honors to Section 8 of RA 6713.

Yes, yung Code of Conduct and Ethical Standards kung saan considered.

Asset ang stocks na dapat kasama sa SAL

-N. So ayun po, without, so that I don't make any conclusions, Your Honor, I'll just refer the members of the Honorable Court to that Section 8 of Republic Act 6713 where it states na kailangan po parte ng SAL-N sa personal property at ang acquisition costs. At malinaw po doon ang ginagamit na word ay end. Acquisition cost in relation to personal property. Yan lang naman po ang sinasabi ng batas.

Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer kasi yung unang nabasa ko pa lamang dun sa section 8 na yun ay all other assets such as investments, cash on hand or in banks, stocks, bonds, and the like.

Idagdag ko lang po your honors if you'll allow it with your kind permission po. Ang personal property po Kasama rin po yan. Based dun sa section na yan, kasama po dyan ang stocks and other

investments. Okay. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Kung may gustong i-comment din ang defense sa tanong ko tungkol dun sa kung kailangan ilista yung acquisition cost ng stocks sa ilalim ng personal properties kung shareholder sa kumpanya.

Thank you, Your Honor, for considering the side of the defense. But again, having in mind the position and reminders of the Presiding Officer, We defer matters of conclusions of law to each of you, Senator-Judges hereon.

With the indulgence of Senator-Judge Riza, as earlier asked by the Presiding Officer, Atty. James, ba't wala sa form? Saan ko ilalagay kung gusto ko ilagay? You're correct in citing the law, but even if the official wanted to, where and how will he put it when we're supposed to fill out a prescribed form?

May I respond?

Of

course.

I'm asking you, counsel. Your Honor, as I mentioned, this is not me mentioning this, it's just the law. Section 8, personal properties and... I

agree with what the law says. Yesterday, your expert witness said it comes in a prescribed form. I asked if it was illegal for the President and Vice President to have business interests, then why do their forms still contain that? And she said it's a standard form. Fine. So it's a standard form. It's pro forma, she said. So why does this pro forma form? Not include a line or column for acquisition cost for businesses if that is the requirement of the law.

Your Honor, if I may?

If you know, counsel.

I'll try my best to know, Your

Honor.

Kasi po yung stocks is considered as personal property. So dapat po nandun sa personal property portion yung stocks. Hindi, nakahiwalay na table yun eh. As you said, you haven't filled out

the

form. I'm not arguing, Your Honor. I understand the form that there are two portions, the business interest and the personal properties, Your Honor. And I'm not trying to influence the Honorable Court, but our understanding, Your Honor, is that because these are personal properties like investments, and if you look at the form, Your Honor, there is also no separate portion for investments because these are all considered as personal properties. And I think the CSC is in a better position to answer this. But based on our stand, Your Honor, it has to be included in the personal property if we are to believe that SAL-N should be... So

you lump it there?

Yes, Your Honor, that is our position.

You lump it there, personal properties?

Yes, and I may just add that it has to be itemized, Your Honor. That is our position.

But that's not in the guidelines anymore as well, counsel. Anyway, Senator-Judge Riza, apologies for the interjection. Just to clarify.

Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Ito pa po sa Section 30 on inclusion. Nasa omnibus rules po on SAL-N. Personal property refers to jewelry, appliances, furniture, motor vehicles, and other tangible movable properties of value. So, kitang-kita po natin sa forms kanina. This shall also include, nasabi ko na po, investments or other assets such as cash on hand or in the bank, negotiable instruments, securities, stocks, bonds, and the like. So, siguro yung huling observation ko na lamang po, Mr. Presiding Officer, hindi ko palang maalala sa puntong ito kung sino po sa impeachment trial na ito ay nagbanggit but I seem to recall na may nagbanggit na baka nga po kailangang Ammendahan baguhin i-improve yung form mismo para ma-deklara natin lahat na nagtatrabaho sa gobyerno

yung hinihingi ng

batas. That

was discussed yesterday. Yes,

Mr. Presiding Officer. Salamat po sa parehong recollection din pala sa alaala ko. Salamat po, Madam Witness. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Thank you, the Senate President. Then we break for lunch.

Discussion on the corporations. Madam Witness, itong corporations, nakita ko sa mga SALN hindi naka-declare yung acquisition cost. So, ibig sabihin na may possibility na yung net worth is undervalued.

Kasi walang value yung mga corporations.

I cannot make that inference, Your Honor, kasi as I've said, the Office of the Ombudsman is merely a repository agency. So, as to the SALN po of anyone, kung undervalued yun dahil hindi po nag-declare ng acquisition costs, hindi po namin yun masasabi, Your Honor. Can

I ask the prosecution, since you raised this non-declaration, is that the possibility na undervalued yung net worth? Because there's no value in the corporation. It's declared, but there's no value. Ibig sabihin the corporation, the acquisition cost might be millions.

Your Honor, without concluding anything, yes, it can be a possibility. That's why precisely, Your Honor, it has to be declared para po klaro at the onset kung ano po talaga yung...

corresponding na amounts or value ng mga shares of stock. So

yung napakita kanina ng mga pinakita mong mga net worth can be undervalued because walang value yung corporation eh.

Yes, Your Honor. That's a

possibility. Alam naman

yung liabilities.

That's

a possibility. Alam

natin yung asset. But blanco yung acquisition cost for corporations. I would assume there's a value for that. Pag linagay mo yun, di lalaki yung net worth.

Opo. At yun po yung line of questioning ko kanina, Your Honor. That's the

possibility po. Okay.

And in that case, I was looking at the SAL-Ns. Tatanong ko ulit si Madam Witness. Kung that is the case, kailan pwedeng i-correct o lagyan ng value ng declarant yung mga corporations?

Kasi hindi natin, based dito sa SAL-N, hindi natin nakikita yung true net worth eh. Kasi walang value yung corporation. Ngayon, kung gusto na ngayon ng deklarant lagyan ng value, kailan niya pwedeng lagyan ng value?

Your Honor, again, the Office of the Ombudsman cannot make any comment on that. Kaya

kung gusto lang niya i-correct, let's

say gusto niya i-correct, or kagaya ng sinabi ni President Officer, nalito lang siya doon sa column, gusto niya nalagyan, kailan niya pwedeng, kailan ng deadline sa pagko-correct?

Ang submission po kasi natin ng SAL-N is every 30th of the April po, pero that's for the agency. So Office of the Ombudsman po, currently ang guidelines po namin states that ang submission po to the office as the repository agency is every 30th of June. So pag na-submit na po siya sa amin, Your Honor, as to the changes po pertaining to those assets, Aside from the form and other clerical or minimal error, hindi na po pwede, Your Honor.

So in other words, every year, kasi tinitignan ko yung pinasent na SAL-N, every year walang value yung corporation. So every year, possibility lang naman ito ah. There's a possibility na undervalued the net worth.

Kasi

walang correction eh. Tinitignan ko itong pinasent na SAL-N.

Your Honor, I cannot make that inference based

on the records. I'll ask the prosecution. Is that a possibility? I'm just saying whether it's

a possibility or not.

Yes, Your Honor. I think that's also precisely why there is a corrective mechanism so that kung meron mang pumali na hindi sadya, pwede pong makorect. Ang problema lang po, pag tuloy-tuloy na wala namang tuloy-tuloy yung declaration, tapos wala namang pong correction. But I'll leave that judgment to the Honorable Court, Your Honor.

Balikan ko si Ms. Witness. Kanina nasabi ng ating former Senate President Tito Sotto yung foreign currency deposit. Kung meron kang foreign currency deposit, saan mo ilalagay siya? Saan mo i-declare siya in your SAL-N?

Your Honor, I haven't experienced declaring foreign currency deposit.

Since you're a custodian, you've been working in the Ombudsman for quite some time since 2010.

Kung may nagtanong sa iyo, saan ko i-declare yung dollar account ko? Saan niya ilalagay in the columns?

Generally, your owner bank deposits are declared under the personal properties.

In personal properties. So doon niya ilalagay yung kanyang personal properties. Yung foreign currency deposits niya. Next will be, dito sa mga sal-ends ni VP Sara, may nakita ba kayong... Kulang sa declaration ng SAL-Ns? May years ba na kulang?

You mean po, Your Honor, meron pong year na hindi nag-submit?

Yes.

For 2013 po, Your Honor, wala po kaming record ng kanyang 2013 SAL-N.

One year lang?

For 2014, wala din po.

So how many years ang kulang? Give me complete answers.

2013 and 2014 po wala. May certification po yung Office of the Mindanao na wala pong silang nakitang on records ng 2013 and 2014 SAL-Ns.

And then, nakita ko sa rules na pag bagong assumption mo sa office, kailangan mo rin mag-declare ng SAL-N, tama?

Yes, Your Honor.

Because of this rule, kompleto ba yung declaration ng VP Sara sa kanyang SAL-N?

Ang nakita lang po namin is for the 2013, wala po siyang exit SAL-N. As to the entry SAL-N, mukhang kompleto naman po. Yung exit SAL-N lang po ng 2013 na wala.

Yung itong dalawang years na sinabi niya walang SAL-N, ano ang corrective mechanism dyan? Assuming nakalimutan lang, assuming nakaligtaan ng accountant, kailan siya pwedeng mag-correct?

Based

on your knowledge with itong ganitong declaration of SAL-N?

Based on my understanding po pagdating sa non-filing po ng SAL-N, kasi nga po may deadlines po as to the filing of SAL-N. Kung maglipapile po siya ng late, say after 30th of June, which is the deadline for the Office of the Ombudsman,

Tatanggapin pa rin po namin yun but that would be labeled as a late filing.

Nasabi sa akin ng ating presiding officer in 2013-2014 di naman public official si VP

Sara. Parang nag-end po yung term niya noong 2013, June 30, 2013.

So ang dapat mag-file siya ng SAL-N?

Yes po.

Bago matapos yung kanyang...

Exit SAL-N po.

Yung exit SAL-N niya. And then, another question. Pag fina-file ba sa inyo, do you verify the correctness of the contents of the SAL-N? Ginagawa ba yan ng ombudsman?

Hindi po as to the correctness ng contents po, Your Honor. Chinicheck lang po namin kasi from time to time nagbabago po ng form ang Civil Service Commission. So, chinicheck lang po namin kung tama yung form na ginamit. Tapos kung minsan nakasign po.

Like for

example, kanina na pinapakinggan ko yung mga corporations na undeclared. Nagkakaroon ba kayo, let's say, ng cross-reference with SEC para makita nyo kung declared siya o hindi? Meron bang ganyan na mga mechanisms to verify?

Your Honor, hindi po namin ginagawa yun because we only accept po yung mga sal-ends lang po ng mga public officials. No attachments needed po.

So ministerial lang tinatanggap

niyo at

repository lang kayo?

Yes po, Your Honor. Thank

you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Habol, bago mag-go, Senator-Judge Pangilinan, before we break for lunch, for your interjection.

Thank you,

Mr. Presiding Officer.

Atty. Batu,

Tinitingnan niyo, sabi niyo kanina, yung correctness nung filed SAL-N on the basis of yung form.

Opo, Your Honor.

Okay. Hindi ba yung SAL-N merong... Yung form niya, sabi niyo, nagbabago minsan based on CSE. Tama

po.

Okay. Pero alam ninyo na dito sa form na ito, merong one, two pages ata, merong...

Parang declaration on business interest on one hand. Pero meron din declaration on personal properties.

So merong

business interest, merong personal properties. Hindi ba sa form?

Tama po. So

tinitingnan niyo yun. So walang acquisition cost area sa business interest. Pero naalala ko kasi kahapon sabi ni Justice Cabotaje Tang na based on the law, kinakailangan yung personal properties dinedeklara. So there is a separate declaration or form sa form yung personal property declaration, di ba?