August 12, 2026

Senate President, the Presiding Officer, and the Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

The

Sergeant

at Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo.

Sa

ngalan ng Ama ng Anak na Espiritu Santo, Amen. Aming mapagmahal na Diyos, bigyan mo po ng malinaw na pag-iisip, malinis na konsensya at matatag na panihindigan ang mga senador na nagsisilbing mga hukom ngayon. Nawa'y maging patas at walang kinikilingan ang aming paghatol. Hindi dahil sa politika, personal na interes, opinion ng publiko o anumang impluensya. Higit sa lahat, Panginoon, huwag mong hayaang ang hatul ay maimpluensyahan ng social media. Naway hindi siya mahatulan dahil lamang sa ingay ng mga opinion online at hindi rin siya mapawalang sala dahil sa popularidad o suporta ng iba. Ang maging batayan lamang sana ay ang katotohanan Ang batas at ang mga ebidensya ang iniharap sa paglilitis. Kung tunay nga na walang sala si Vice President Sara Duterte, bigyan mo ng tapang at karunungang kaming mga hukom na siya ay agad na mapawalang sala. Ngunit, kung ang mga ebidensya ay malinaw, matibay at sapat upang patunayang siya ay nagkasala, bigyan mo rin kami ng katatagaan na siya ay panagutin na naaayon sa batas. Panginoon, naway maging mabilis ngunit makatarungan ang paglilitis na ito. Huwag naway itong patagalin ng walang sapat na dahilan sa pagkatunay na ang kasabihang justice delayed is justice denied. Sa huli, naway hindi ang politika, social media o popular na opinion ang manaig kundi ang katotohanan, katarungan at kapakanan ng sambayan ng Pilipino. Ito ang aming sinasamo sa inyo, Panginoon. Amen.

Amen. The Clerk of Court will now call the roll.

Roll call of members

...

...

Senator-Judge Aquino, Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan, Senator-Judge Cayetano Pia, Senator-Judge De La Rosa, Senator-Judge Ejercito, Senator-Judge Estrada, Senator-Judge Goh, Senator-Judge Ontiveros, Senator-Judge Lacson, Senator-Judge Lapid, Senator-Judge Legarda, Senator-Judge Marcoleta, Senator-Judge Marcos. Senator-Judge Padilla, Senator-Judge Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Soto III, Senator-Judge Tulfo Erwin, Senator-Judge Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge Villanueva, Senator-Judge Villar Camil, Senator-Judge Villar Marc, Senator-Judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge Escudero, Senate President, Senator-Judge Gachalian. With

With 18 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum.

In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trial, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the Journal of August 11, 2026 of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and shall consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court.

Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

Appearances of the parties.

Same appearance for the public prosecutors. We are ready, Your Honor.

Same appearance for the respondent, Your Honor. We are ready.

Chair would like to direct the Clerk of Court through the OSA to kindly escort the witness, Ms. Aileen, to the witness stand. to continue with her testimony.

Your Honor.

While she is being led to the witness stand, yes, what is the pleasure of the Honorable Chua?

Your Honor, I understand that this is a continuation of the direct testimony of our witness. May we request the counsel for the prosecutor, Atty. Kapunin, be recognized, Your Honor, please.

I believe the counsel for the panel of prosecutors, Atty. Lorna, terminated her direct yesterday. We are on cross today.

Is that correct, Attorney Lorna?

How is your platform, ma 'am?

I pray that I do not fall from the apple cart. Your Honor, please, good morning, Mr. Presiding Officer, Honorable Impeachment Senate Judges, Senate Court Judges. We are disturbed, Your Honor. Although yesterday we terminated our direct examination, we are disturbed by a manifestation of counsel for the respondent when she said that the marking of the tabulations and summaries will no way be an admission, Your Honor, as to the authenticity of the acknowledgement receipts which form part of the tabulation and the summary, Your Honor. We therefore are constrained unless council now is willing to stipulate that the summaries which really and the tabulation which was really personally prepared by this competent witness of the COA ICFAO which office received and all acknowledgement receipts have an attestation that they are certified true copies of the person who has custody of the same, Your Honor. May we inquire from counsel of respondent if again, although the presiding officer did make it clear that when each individual acknowledgement receipt is presented, they have the right to cross-examine. And we have the right to ask the witness. Our concern, Your Honor, is the next witnesses that we will be presenting will not have any personal knowledge of this acknowledgement receipts. They will not be able to identify and authenticate. The only person who can do that, Your Honor, is the current witness, Sylene May del Campo. Now, we are constrained, Your Honor. To save the time of this honorable court, this presiding officer will recall that it also ordered, Your Honor, that the prosecution and the defense submit separately the list of documents, specifically acknowledgement receipts, to the Clerk of Court which office will be the one to make the comparison, Your Honor. Can we modify that order, Your Honor? Can we request, Your Honor, that in addition to the Clerk of Court comparing comparing the prosecution evidence and the defense evidence, an exercise which should have been done Thursday and Friday last week, Your Honor, that instead of just doing that, that this witness appear before the clerk of court to identify and authenticate, Your Honor, these documents in front of the prosecution, in front of the defense. and in front of the Clerk of Court. Thereafter, the Clerk of Court can make a finding or report or evaluation that these documents, I'm sorry, that these documents were properly identified, authenticated by this witness, Your Honor, to preempt any technical legal objection in the future. because, Your Honor, or in the formal offer, Your Honor, because counsel will recall, and this court will recall that while we had already ended our direct examination, counsel for respondents said that does not mean that this witness identified and authenticated the acknowledgement receipts. And therefore, Your Honor, if we may respectfully request the presiding officer to authorize or to designate the Clerk of Court to accept,

Your Honor, not only the documents but likewise for this witness to appear before the Clerk of Court in front of counsels for both respondent and the prosecution to enable this witness to identify and authenticate based on personal knowledge, Your Honor, the documents that are part of the summaries, Your Honor. This way, Your Honor, we will not have to present again acknowledgement receipts this morning and identify each and every one. So, in sum, Your Honor, my manifestation is to the effect that we expand The directive of the presiding officer directing

the parties to separately submit their documents and for the clerk to himself, itself, clerk of court's office to itself, make the comparison. We want to expand it to include that this witness, Ms. Silene, appear before the clerk of court. in the presence of counsels for the petitioner and for the respondent for the purpose of one, identifying, and two, authenticating the documents in the tabulation, sir. This will save the court two hours today. Your Honor,

please. Counsel, before you respond, Attorney Christine, Counsel, Does your manifestation have anything to do with the fact that you've wound up your direct? Does that mean you intend to proceed with your direct again today?

No, Your Honor. So your

direct is done?

It's a manifestation

in regard to the ARs?

Your Honor, it depends on the discretion of the presiding officer. If the presiding officer will allow this witness to appear before the clerk of court, In front of both councils, Your Honor, for the purpose of identifying and authenticating the documents presented, Your Honor, then we will terminate our direct examination.

I believe you already did yesterday, counsel.

Yes, Your Honor, but under the control, we, private prosecutor, Your Honor, is under the control and supervision of the public, panel of public prosecutors who had expressed to this representation their concern. about a possible objection, a technical objection of the defense counsel on the issue of identification and authentication of these separate acknowledgement receipts. So, Your Honor.

In the interest of moving forward, don't worry, Atty. Sailin. No need to comment. The Chair will make a ruling. Last night, The acknowledgement receipts that came from the counsel for respondents were submitted already to the Clerk of Court for comparison with the ARs of the prosecution. Both are certified through copies, although some ARs are certified by a different certifying officer from COA, but both are certified through copies and we will proceed with the comparison. It was clear from the witness yesterday and it's clear to the court that she based her tabulation on the ARs that she said were all certified by the same person. That's your copy, counsel. And we took note of that and acknowledged that. These are certified true copies from both sides as you will compare to avoid that situation from happening. And we will be ruling on the admissibility of these ARs once it is formally offered based on this comparison. Without need for Silene really to tell us that they look alike or are alike. But counsel, as of yesterday, insofar as the randomly picked or well-chosen ARs yesterday, counsel for the respondent did not raise their copies. Apparently, or we will know now at cross, apparently there is no discrepancy or difference when you are presenting those ARs to the witness.

And again, that is their right. to present their copy because their theory is they're questioning, correct me if I'm wrong, Atty. Sailin, the chain of custody. It might have been broken. But if it's not broken insofar as the ARs and after we compare it, then there is no need to further belabor this point. We will rule on the matter, counsel, at the appropriate time. But I'm telling you already where the court is at this point in time in relation to the ARs that Sailin testified to and where she based her tables and summaries upon. And that is the copies of the prosecutor.

I hope that settles the issue, counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I think with that ruling, it is now clear that identification and authentication are presumed from the statement of the Presiding Officer subject to cross-examination. of counsel for the respondent, Your Honor. And

subject to the comparison that the clerk will be making of these copies coming from both parties, which you will make known to the parties without need of Silene's presence thereat.

My last manifestation, Your Honor, and this is for purposes of clarity, because at the end of yesterday's hearing, the party stayed, counsel, counsel for both parties stayed to mark the tabulations, Your Honor. And for purposes of the record, Can we just state, for the office of the Vice President, tabulations were marked in front of the Clerk of Court after the hearing, P-1-29, for December 2022, last quarter, the period, December 2021.

Before you continue, counsel, the one you mentioned is the one made by Atty. Wamil.

Yes, Your Honor.

And the subsequent ones will be the ones made by Ms. Aileen.

Yes, Your Honor.

You may proceed.

So, these have been marked after the hearing, Your Honor, upon direction of the presiding officer so as to make efficient use of time of the impeachment court. So, for the last quarter, tabulation made by Mr. Wamil, Attorney Wamil, was marked yesterday as P-1-29. For the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it's P-1-30. For the second quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it is P-1-31. And for the third quarter of the Office of the Vice President, marked as P-1-32. Before the Clerk of Court, and in the presence of Defense Respondents Council and Prosecutions Council. A summary of these tabulations was likewise marked for December 2022 P-1-29-1, which we have now, Your Honor, P-1-30-1 for the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President. p-1-31-1 for the second quarter and p-1-32-1 also which we have now, Your Honor, for the third quarter. For the deathbed, Your Honor, we likewise mark at the end of yesterday's hearing tabulations prepared personally by this witness and identified before the impeachment court. p-1-33

for the first quarter, p-1-34 for the second quarter, and p-1-35, all tabulations. For the summary, Your Honor, of these tabulations, p-1-33-1 for the first quarter of the DepEd, p-1-34-1 for the second quarter, of the DepEd, and P-1-35-1, Your Honors, for the third quarter of the DepEd. With that, Your Honor, unless counsel...

Duly noted, counsel. The markings are mentioned by Atty. Capunan, Atty. Lorna. Duly noted.

We need, therefore, reiterate that we have terminated our direct examination, Your Honor.

Thank you very much, counsel. Attorney Christine, you may proceed with your cross when you are ready. You may proceed, ma'am.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Good morning, Celine. Is that the way that you pronounce your name, Celine? Sylene. Sylene, okay. So, you have been with the COA since 2014, right?

August 26, 2014 po.

August 26. So that is around 12 years already.

Yes po, magti-12 years. Okay.

You assumed the accounts of the Vice President, the audit of the confidential funds of the Vice President and the DepEd when Attorney Wamil was reassigned to COA, Pasay, correct?

Opo, tama po.

Curious lang ako, Ms. Cylene, was that reassignment a promotion or just a plain reassignment, if you know?

Yung kay Mr. Wamil

po? Yes. Na-reassign po siya. Reassignment lang.

Okay. So, that was on February 12, 2024.

Opo, tama po.

So, Mr. Wamil was the one who prepared the AOMs.

for the fourth quarter of 2024 for the OVP. Tama?

Yung AOM po is for the fourth quarter of 2022. Ah,

2022 rather. Okay. And he also prepared the AOM for the first and second quarter of 2023 ng OVP. Okay. So, we will go back to that, no? So, when Mr. Wamil Reassigned to you his account? Was there any office memorandum that was issued by the COA reassigning you as the examiner?

The question is misleading, Your Honor. It is not Mr. Wamil who reassigned the account to her. She just occupied the position, Your Honor.

The question was if there was an office memorandum reassigning her to take over from Wamil, not Wamil himself. Witness may answer?

Yung sa assignment po kasi namin, ang hawak namin...

Just

please answer the question. Was there an office memorandum assigning you to handle the accounts of the OVP and the DepEd, particularly the confidential audit of these two offices?

Meron po kaming order na ako po ang assigned na maghahawak ng national government agencies.

Particularly the office of the Vice President and the DepEd. Meron po kayo nun.

Ask and answer, Your Honor.

Hindi, my question was specific. I'm referring to the DepEd and the OVP.

Witness may answer.

These are national agencies. Your Honor, please, can the counsel allow me to continue my question? Ask

and answer, Your Honor. Witness may answer, Councils.

May memorandum po ba na nag-assign sa inyo specifically sa DepEd at OVP?

Yung memorandum po is naka-assign ako sa national government agencies.

All?

Opo.

Okay,

I'll accept that answer, Your Honor.

Was it Mr. Wamil who personally turned over his files to you?

Iliwan po niya yung files niya sa office po nung malipat po siya sa COA Pasay. Sa

kaninong office sa'yo or kaninong office ba?

Sa custodian po namin sa COA Ikfaw.

Okay. So, meron mo ba siyang iniwan na... endorsement sa inyo na ito lahat yung mga files na iniwan ko for this particular account, meron ho ba? For the OVP, meron ho bang siyang iniwan na endorsement?

Yung mismo mga files po, iniwan po niya sa custodian namin.

Ah, endorsement ho, like letter, a summary containing all the, containing a list of the files that he turned over to the custodian, meron ho bang ganon?

Meron po kaming logbook pag natapos na po yung...

Logbook. Okay, pero dala mo ba yun ngayon?

Hindi po.

Okay. So how about... Doon sa DepEd, may iniwan ho ba siyang transmittal doon sa kustodyan na ito lahat yung mga iniwan kong files with regard to the audit of the DepEd Confidential Funds? Meron ho ba?

Ang iniwan po niya is yung mismong document.

Yung mismong document. So walang transmittal na iniwan ho doon sa kustodyan?

Opo, yung mismong documents po yun. Okay,

sige.

May iniwan ho ba si Mr. Wamil sa inyo? Diba sabi niyo, may mga documents ho siyang iniwan? Diba pag nag-audit ho tayo, meron ho tayong tinatawag na working papers, yung mga drafts po natin. May iniwan ho si Mr. Wamil sa inyo nun? Your

Honor, please, again, the question is misleading. This witness already said, asked and answered that Mr. Wamil did not leave documents to her. Mr. Wamil left the documents to the office.

I will

rephrase. I will rephrase.

Kindly

rephrase, counsel. May iniwan bang worksheets sa kustodyan?

Yes, po. Nakasama po dun sa files yung mga working papers po. Alright.

Alright. I'll take that answer.

Kayo po, paano nyo kinuha yung mga files na yun? Kinuha nyo lang diretsyo sa kustodyan? Ano pong proseso

nun? Nung ma-assign po sa akin yung sa OBP at sa DepEd, nung nag-submit po sila ng response, binigay po sa akin yung response together with the documents na pinagbasehan po nung audit observation memorandum po. Ah,

okay. So, in short, niroute lang sa'yo yung response.

Tama, ho? Response together with yung AOM, together with the attachment po na yung mga dokumento.

Okay. So, ah... Kailan ho yan ni-route sa inyo? Yung response, yung AOM,

mga estimate lang po. Iba-iba po kasi diba ang una is yung March 13, 2024 na response nila sa NS. Naibigay po sa akin to March 14. Yung sa iba po hindi ko na matandaan yung exact dates pero malapit po dun sa after masubmit yung response.

Alright. I'll take that answer. Okay. So... One meal prepared the AOM for the fourth quarter of 2022 for the Office of the Vice President. Tama po?

Opo.

How about the first to third quarters of 2023? Sino ba yung nag-prepare ng...

AOMs na yun, dalawa ho yun. Yung sa OBP po, na first and second quarter 2023, nandun pa po siya nung ma-issue po yung AOM. Yung sa third quarter po, siya yung nag-draft, pero nung na-finalize na po yun, wala na po siya sa COA-ICFAO. So, yung custody po ng document na yun, nasa division chief. Kaya nung finalize po yun, division chief na po yung nag-finalize. Okay. So, alright.

Sige, we will flash these AOMs. Kasi nga si Mr. Wamil nga yung nag-prepare nung iba sa kanila.

Sige.

May we know from counsel which AOM she will be flashing? Is it the defendant's document or the prosecution's document? Because the defendant's documents were not identified nor presented to this witness.

Then

if counsel wants to... confront the witness with documents she has identified. She has to use the prosecution's evidence because that was the one identified by the witness. If she now intends to present the defense documents, they are not documents that have been identified nor authenticated by this witness during her testimony. We will

have a

continuing objection. Excuse me, counsel. We will have a continuing objection to their presenting their documents which have not been identified by the witness. They are AOMs. AOMs have been identified by the witness but these are prosecution's AOMs, Your Honor. May I suggest, Your Honor, to the defense counsel since she refused for us to use the defense witnesses that she uses now, the prosecution's documents.

That is up to her, counsel. She may confront the witness with their copy of the AAM. I'm sure she would be competent to testify whether these are the same documents earlier identified as exhibits for the prosecution or not. Counsel, you may proceed.

Yes, correct, Your Honor. And they're AOMs. We did not dispute those. So we have the same copies. Can we proceed, counsel?

In connection with that, Your Honor, since counsel admits that our AAMs are their... defendants, AOMs. Can we just use the prosecution's copies, Your Honor?

But, Your Honor, we have prepared, you know, visually using them. Show them. Show the document. Yeah, I will. I am showing the defense document. No, we will not agree. No,

Your Honor, the counsel cannot dictate how I will proceed with my cross-examination. Can the counsel, Your Honor, be reminded that I'm on cross-examination?

We will not agree, Your Honor, to the presentation of defense documents. because precisely there was no stipulation yesterday. They are now constrained. Excuse me, counsel.

Allow her to finish,

counsel. They are

now constrained, Your Honor. I'm sorry. They are now constrained to use our documents precisely. This is what we wanted to avoid yesterday. Had we did a comparison, not to belabor the obvious, Your Honor, but now counsel says, anyway, it's the same. So if it's the same, what's the objection to using the prosecution's document?

Counsel, that water is already under the bridge. You may request assisting counsel to check the copy being presented to Ms. Aileen and you may make this the subject matter of your redirect later on. Allow counsel to present Thank you, Your Honor. The presenting

officer will allow the counsel to present that document but notes the continuing objection of Atty. Capone with respect to this matter. Thank

you,

Your Honor. Okay.

So, I am presenting you the AOMs that were issued to the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd.

So, the first AOM is dated September 14, 2023. It's AOM number 2023- 211.

The

assisting counsel can check this copy. Anyway,

I can dispense with that. The second AOM is October 3, 2023. Now, I will direct you to the last page. It says here RCW, JMQ, GAC, RRS, and BP. So, RCW is Roderick C. Wamil, correct?

Opo, tama po.

Okay. Who is JMQ?

Dati pong staff namin sa ICFAO. GAC? Division Chief po ng IGFAO.

If you can state her name or his name?

Si Atty. Gloria A. Camora.

Okay. This is Gloria A. Camora. RRS? Dati din pong...

D.C. sa IKFO pero retired na po siya.

Alright. NBP is the

signatory? Opo, si Ascom Nilda Plaras.

Okay. So, we will proceed to the third AOM for the OVP that is dated February 1, 2024. So, I will direct you to the routing list. Do you agree that this

is a routing list? Sila po yung nag-evaluate, nag-review ng documents.

Yeah, I was about to ask you that question. Thank you for confirming. Now, it's RCW, Roderick Siwamil again, JMQ, RRS, NBP.

Opo, tama.

Alright. So,

let's go to the AOM for the OVP dated August 8, 2024.

On the last page, the routing list, it's RCW, GAC, RRS, NBP. But this is August 8, 2024.

Wala

na si Roderick Wamil dito sa ICFAO. Wala na po

siya pero dyan po kasi siya yung nag-draft po ng A&M. Siya

yung nag-draft

neto. So meaning, when...

He

drafted this. He left this doon sa records ba? Or saan?

Yan po kasi may draft na siya. Nasa division chief. Nasa division chief. Chief.

So, from February to August. So, ilang months yun?

February, March, April, May, June, July, August. After six months, doon lang na-release yung AOM. Nung wala na si Wamil. Tama?

Opo, kasi po. Sorry.

Just answer my question. Can you please repeat

the question?

So, From February 2024, noong umalis na si Mr. Wamil, iniwan niya ito sa Division Chief na. So, na-release ito. Your Honor, preparatory nga. Sabi nga niya, i-repeat ko daw. She's laying

the basis for question counsel. So, after

six months, doon lang na-release

yung AOM. Dahil po dumaan pa ito sa review. Hindi ka kasali dito sa grupo na nag-review, nag-draft. Wala, wala kang participation dito. Na-review ko po yan noong nag-evaluate na po ako ng mga responses.

Binasa ko din po yan noong nag-evaluate ako ng responses sa notice of suspension.

So in short, nakita mo lang to after it has been issued by the COA-ICFAO. Tama?

Opo, kasi yun yung naging basis ko ng evaluation.

Sige, o. Okay,

okay. Next is, The audit observation memorandum for the, sorry,

DepEd.

Wait.

Your Honor, can I just confirm my concept?

So, let's go to the DepEd, ano? Sige, doon din tayo sa routing list, no? February 1, 2024, nandito pa si Roderick Guamil kasi RCW, JMQ, RRS, NDP.

Opo. Alright.

Let's go to August 8, AOM.

RCW, GAC, RRS, and BP. Wala na si RCW pero nasa division head.

Opo,

pareho po nung sa OBP. At

saka na-review mo lang to nung na-issue na ng division head, ng ICFAO.

Opo, nung

mag-eevaluate na po ako ng response. Okay, sige.

Salamat si Lyn.

Your Honor, may we just note for the record? that the documents presented to this witness were defense exhibits.

That has been noted, Your Honor.

Okay, so punta naman nun tayo dun sa responses ng Vice President, no? Ah, nagsubmit ho sila nung letter dated April 19, 2024. Okay. At part 2 nung letter nun, nagsubmit ho sila ng protective intelligence reports. Naalala niyo po yun?

Opo, attachment po yun dun sa response nila.

Okay. So, David,

may

request,

David, to please flash our

assisting

counsel.

Your Honor, David po ang pangalan niya para pwede niyo siya i-direct kung nagkakamali siya, kung hindi niyo naayon yung fina-flash niya.

Thank you for that, counsel.

Okay, sige, punta tayo dito sa... Can we

also,

Your Honor, call our assistant? Counsel, Your Honor, Atty.

J. De

La Cruz.

So,

ito, exhibit na ito, again, we'll use our exhibit counsel.

Itong exhibit na ito, minarkahan po as D-1 or D-1, D-115, OVP-C. So, ito po, so,

Kasama ho dun sa submission ng Office of the Vice President is a certification dated April 4, 2024. Tama ho?

Opo, kasama po yun sa response.

Okay, salamat Celine. Ito ay in-issue ni Raymond Dante P. Lachica.

Opo, tama.

Okay, so sinasabi ho dito sa first paragraph. This is to certify that the confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 127 areas during the first quarter. of CY 2023 and 111 areas during the second quarter of 2023, which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring during the engagements of the Vice President and the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabella, Incagayan, in Cagayan Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of OVP, Libreng Sakay. Do you see that, Celine?

Yes, po.

Okay, salamat.

Pero sinabi n'yo sa findings n'yo na it doesn't pass the proof of success of the intelligence activities, correct?

Yes po, under 4.8.5, hindi po sa sufficient. So,

kasali ho dyan sa letter na yan are what we call as Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte. Nakita nyo ho ba yun?

Opo, tama po.

Okay, so sa bawat quarter na yun, may summary of intelligence work. Nabasa nyo ho ba yun? Yung summary po noong... Ang tanong ko... Nabasa nyo ba bawat quarter yung summary of intelligence work? Yung narrative po, yung activity, location,

yung timeline po, nakalagay po sa P.I.O.R. So,

I'll take that answer, no? So,

I'm

showing you this document, no? This is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-C, Your Honor, with the caption, Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara G. Duterte, 1st Quarter CY 2023. Now, punta ko tayo sa item number 4.

Okay, number 2 muna tayo sa scope. You can read it with me. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence. Do you confirm that? Protective intelligence operations.

Opo, tama po.

During the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the first quarter of CY 2023. Do you confirm that?

Opo,

tama po. Number four. Punta tayo sa number four. Item four, you can read it with me. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice-President, Vice-Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice-President Sara Z. Duterte or Vice-President Sara Duterte from January 1 to March 31, 2023 are listed below. So nakita n'yo yan, sakto

yung basa ko ng narrative. Opo, nakalagay po yung engagement.

Okay, salamat.

Letter, pero nakalagay dito in support of the Presidential Security and Protection Groups Protective Security Operations. Based po sa document. Alright, sige. Letter A, nakalagay dito ikala, ika, 106 na taong pagkakasarinlan ng bustos minasa festival, festival, festival, Ceremony opening. So, nakalagay, date covered, January 2 to January 10, 2023. Location, BMA Park, Poblasyon, Bustos, Bulacan. Number 3, probable threats, NPA and criminalities. So, number 4, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Nakita niyo ba yan? Opo, based po sa dumang comment. Okay, salamat po. Nakalagay mo sa timeline of activities na ito, may nakalagay yung table, no? Tingnan lang natin isa-isa, no? Kung ito ba talaga ay intelligence work o hindi, no? So, itong number 5, tingnan mo natin yung item number 5. liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in the municipality of Bustos and its neighboring communities. Ano yan? Intelligence work ko yan? O ano lang ng admin work lang ng Office of the Vice President?

Ang pagkakaintindi ko po dyan, yan yung naging part ng ano yung activities yung sa...

Hindi, tatanungin kita, based on

how it appears, ano yan? Leasing with Intel Operatives, ano yan? Normal lang ho yan sa Office of the Vice President na mag-lease with Intel Operatives? Or part ho ba yan ng intelligence work? Sa tingin nyo lang ho.

Papasok po siya sa Intelligence Gallery. Okay,

salamat po. Number 7, Intelligence Fusion with the... for the threat assessment and situation update. Ano po yan? Papasok po yan sa intelligence or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

Sa intelligence. Salamat po.

Okay, ito. Dito tayo sa actual operations, no? Profiling of participants who will be attending the event provided by organizers. Part 2 ba yan ng normal na function ng OVP? Or papasok po siya sa intelligence work?

sa intelligence work po.

Okay, salamat po. Deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate, from the landing zone to the venue. Is that an OVP admin work or intelligence-related ho yan? Kasama

po yan sa intelligence-related activities. Okay, salamat po.

Okay.

Gusto ko man hong isa-isahin ito, Your Honor, pero I think we are constrained by time. The court can peruse the documents for its information. We have all the time,

Mr. Witness. Gusto

mo, attorney?

Once it is formally offered, that's when we will be able to peruse it.

Okay, so ito yung first quarter pala ho ito, Ms. Celine.

Let's go to the second quarter.

Okay.

So, punta ho tayo sa second quarter ng 2023.

It

is covered by the same letter of Mr. La Chica. So, punta ho tayo dito sa title. By the way, Your Honor, this is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-M. Okay, so ang title nito ay Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte, Second Quarter 2023. Now, punta ho tayo sa scope.

Basahin nyo natin, Ms. Celine, no? This report, number two, item two, this report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the second quarter of 2023. Tama po ba yung binasa ko?

Opo, tama po.

Ay,

salamat po. Narrative number four, the protective Intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice President Sara Duterte from April 1 to June 30, 2023 are listed below. Letter A, puntaan natin yung letter A, no? Yung caption niya, National Economic and Development Authority, Social Development, Committee, cabinet-level meeting. Do you see that?

Opo, tama po.

Okay. So, yung date covered po niya ay April 2 to 5, 2023. Tama po ba?

Opo.

Okay. Location po niya ay Astoria Plaza, Hotel 15J, Escriva Drive, Ortigas Business District, Pasig City, Metro Manila. Tama po?

Opo, tama po.

Okay, thank you. Nakalagay po ang possible threats. Letter A, cost-oriented cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Nakita n'yo ba yan?

Opo.

Okay. Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Tama po?

Opo, tama po.

So number five, nakalagay na dito yung timeline of activities. Shown below, the timeline of activities for the engagement of the Vice President. Now, Punta ako tayo sa number 3. Okay. Liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminals in Pasig City and its neighboring communities. Ano ba yan? Administrative work lang ba yan ng OVP or part ba yan ng intel work? Tingin n'yo.

Intel work po.

Okay.

Number 6. Intelligence fusion with for the threat assessment and situation update. Intelligence work or normal lang yan na part ng OVP?

Admin work.

Intelligence work po. Okay, salamat po.

Okay. Eto, number 8, ocular inspection, casing and surveillance of the venue. Ano ba yan? Part lang yan ng OVP admin work or intelligence work? Who yan? Sa tingin n'yo po?

Intelligence work po.

Okay, salamat po. Number 12. Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants.

Part 2 ba yan? Sorry, I'll... Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants. Is that part of the confidential... operations of the VP, OVP, or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

Papasok po siya as confidential work.

Okay, confidential work, no? So, actual operations, eto, number 14.

Okay, number 14 tayo.

Hindi, number 13 muna, ito interesting. Profiling and security tagging of participants who will be attending the event. Part 2 ba ng confidential activity yan or normal lang yan na part ng OVP?

Admin work.

Number 12 po. Kasama

po sa, parang papasok siya sa surveillance.

Okay, surveillance, no? Number 14, okay, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP and MMDA. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance activities or normal lang yan sa OVP?

Part po ng surveillance activities.

Okay, salamat po. Number 16, provided intelligence coverage prior to the arrival Actual and departure of the Vice President. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance? Or normal lang yan sa OVP?

Surveillance.

Okay, salamat. May nakalagay dito na post-operations. Okay, number 18. Continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Pasig City Police Office.

Surveillance ho ba yan? Or normal lang na admin work yan ng Office of the Vice President?

Surveillance.

Yes. Oo. Pero, I mean, covered pa yun ng submission kasi nakalagay naman dito. Excuse me

lang, Your Honor. I will confirm with my counsel.

Okay. Ayun na. So, may certification dito na sinubmit si Mr. Dan Telachica dated September 30, 2023.

Nakalagay dito. Babasahin ko ho, si Lyn, okay lang?

Sige,

sabay tayo. This is to certify, ah, si Lyn pala, sorry po. This is to certify that confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 122 areas during the third quarter of CY 2023 which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring. During the engagements of the Vice President and in the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabela, Incagayan, Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of the OVP Libringsakay Program. Tama ho ba yung binabasa ko?

Opo.

Okay. So ito ho yung naging support niya, proof of success of the... Information gathering na sinabit ni Office of the Vice President, tama ho?

Opo, response po nila sa AOM for the third quarter.

Salamat po. Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-B for the court's information. Now, may naka-attach ho dito na PAYOR, yun yung tawag natin doon, Protective Intelligence Operations Report. for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter of 2023. Nakikita n'yo ba yan?

Opo.

Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-C for the respondent. Now, tingnan mo natin yung scope again, Celine. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments. of the VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagement of the Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter CY 2023. Do you see that?

Opo. Okay,

salamat. Number four, narrative. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagements of the Vice President Sara Duterte from July 1 to September 30, 2023 are listed below. Tama ba yung binabasa ko?

Opo, tama po.

Okay, thank you. So, letter A. May nakalagay ho doon, DPWH inauguration and opening of Davao City Coastal Bypass Project, Segment A. Date covered, June 28 to July 1, 2023.

Davao City Coastal Road, Times Beach, Ecoland, Davao City. Sakto? Sakto pa yung binabasa ko?

Opo, tama po. Okay,

thank you. Probable threats, Letter A. cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Tama po?

Opo, tama po. Okay,

thank you.

Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT, ICT4, tama po?

Opo.

Okay, number five, timeline of activities, no? As shown below, the timeline of activities of the Vice President are as follows. So, tingnan natin yung number four kung Magpo-fall po yan sa confidential or surveillance work, no? Number four, liaising with intel, operatives, and respective informants of the PNP and AFP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in Davao City and neighboring Areas, does that fall under confidential activity or normal lang yan sa administrative work or normal administrative work lang yan ng OVP?

Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

Okay, salamat.

Number 5 po, no? Intel fusion with the, for the threat assessment and situation update. Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

Opo. Okay,

salamat po.

Eto hong number 11, no?

Final briefing to Intel operatives and informants. Ano ba ito? Normal lang ito na trabaho ng OVP or part ito ng surveillance or confidential work?

Papasok po siya sa surveillance activity.

Alright. Then, baba tayo dito sa actual operations, no? Itong profiling and security tagging of the participants, item number 12, who will be attending the event?

Papasok po ba na normal admin work lang yan ng OVP or papasok po siya as confidential work or surveillance?

Papasok po siya dun sa surveillance.

Okay, salamat. Number 13, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP. Surveillance or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

Number 14, provided intel coverage prior to the arrival, actual and departure of the Vice President.

Surveillance or normal lang yan? Part lang yan ang admin work ng OVP?

Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

So, post-operation.

Number 16, continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Davao City Police Office and TF Davao. Pasok ko siya sa admin work or surveillance or confidential work?

Sa surveillance.

Okay. So, nakikita mo dito lahat, Miss Celine, no? Pati na yung doon sa report, nakita mo naman na isa-isa yun, lahat may mga dates at lugar, tama po?

Opo, nakalagay po yung narratives, yung timeline.

So, for the first and second and third quarters of 2023, do you confirm that?

Nakalagay naman yan lahat, may dates, may activity at may lugar,

tama ho?

Opo, based po sa PIO, are reports na submitted. May mga details po na ganoon.

So, lahat ng mga submissions ng OVP for the first to third quarter, Kasama ito, itong Protective Intelligence Operations Report. Meaning, sa first quarter, yung pinakita ko nga, may sinubmit kanina, di ba?

Kasama po dun sa response nila sa AOM attachment po.

Okay. So,

kasama din dun sa response nila yung second quarter na Protective Intelligence Report.

Kasama din po dun sa attachment.

As well as the third quarter, which is itong binasa nyo.

Opo, kasama din po yan.

Okay. But, You know, despite of all of this, sinabi mo, hindi, disallowed pa rin yan kasi walang evidence of success eh.

Walang evidence of success eh, no?

Your Honor,

kindly turn

on the mic for the prosecutor.

Your Honor,

the counsel is

being argumentative with

the witness.

No, I'm just asking, I'm asking a question, sabi ko. What is the question again? Ang question ko, despite of all of those reports, no, dinisallow nyo pa rin yung payment of rewards. Kasi sabi ninyo, no proof of success. Argumentative,

Your Honor.

That is the

finding of this witness.

Kaya nga po, sinasabi ko, attorney, kaya nga po, kinukonfirm ko.

counsel, counsel, if you please. Witness may answer. Objection is overruled. Witness said that she indeed disallowed and or gave AOMs because there was no proof of success. I even remember her saying, wala naman daw na huli. So, please answer, Celine.

Yes po, kasama po yun sa notice of disallowance ko na na-issue noong March 31, 2026. Hindi po sufficient yung P.I.O.R. and certification na evidence na nagpapakita ng success ng information gathering.

Okay, I get that. But are you aware that one of the purposes of intelligence work is crime prevention?

Your Honor, please, may we know where this is leading because we are not talking about intelligence funds. We're talking about confidential

funds.

I confirmed my question,

Your Honor.

Counsel,

kindly wait for Ma'am Attorney Kapunan to finish with her objection.

Are you referring to

I will

rephrase

my question. Counsel,

please address the court, not each

other. Your Honor, please. May I object to this line of questioning? In fact, I have I have not stood up because all the questions referred to intelligence funds, Your Honor, when the topic today is confidential funds. And I would like to put that on record, Your Honor, especially this last question where she specifically refers to conclusions as to use of intelligence funds.

The objection is noted and counsel has already stated that she will rephrase, kindly rephrase, Attorney Christine.

Ang tanong ko kanina, sabi nyo nga, dinisallow nyo yung rewards kasi nga walang evidence of success noong information gathering. Tama ho?

Opo. Okay.

Kasi nga ho, gusto nyo ng proof na may nahuli. Sinabi nyo yan kahapon sa testimony nyo.

Yes po. Kasi naipakita po doon yung probable threat. So ang hinihanap na proof of success is kung may na-apprehend po.

Okay. Apprehended. So, apprehensions, no? So, ang tanong ko sa'yo ngayon, alam niyo ba, do you know that one of the purposes of a confidential activity or a surveillance is crime prevention? Alam niyo ba yun?

Ang isa, confidential...

Hindi,

alam niyo ba yun? Tanong ko lang ho, alam niyo ba na isa sa mga purposes ng surveillance or ng confidential work ay crime prevention? Alam nyo ba yun?

Kasama po ang crime prevention pero depende rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Yes

or no?

Do you agree?

Kasama po ba yun o hindi?

Yung sa crime prevention po, kasama po yun sa... Pero depende pa rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Ang gano'n lang,

kasama po ba siya sa surveillance at paggamit ng confidential fund, crime prevention? Yes or no?

Opo, kasama po.

Okay, salamat Celine. In fact, meron tayong tatlong klase ng surveillance work. Alam nyo ba yun, Celine? May background kayo sa mga surveillance, intelligence work, confidential work?

Based lang po sa Joint Circular na for surveillance activities yung confidential fund.

So actually yung surveillance may, do you agree with me, may tatlong klase yun. Una, preventive surveillance. Alam nyo ba yun?

No basis, Your Honor. Hindi, tinatanong ko

lang kung

alam n

'yo ba?

Your Honor, the surveillance work that this witness testified to is as defined in the circular. So, what

is surveillance work as defined in the circular?

Ito po yung, kasi diba po yung confidential expenses is used by agencies for surveillance and surveillance activities na makakatulong po na maisagawa ang mandate ng isang agency.

Sige, nandoon na tayo sa maisagawa

yung mandate nila. So, tanong ko sa'yo, did the circular limit that to crime prevention? Kasi nga sabi mo, kailangan talaga, ay, to, sorry, to apprehension? Kasi nga sabi mo, dapat may mahuli. Sinabi mo ba yan sa

JC na dapat may mahuli? Ang nakalagay po kasi sa JC under 4.8.5 is proof of

success. Sorry, Your

Honor,

please. Let the witness answer, Your

Honor. Can

the counsel be instructed not to stop the witness at mid-sentence, Your Honor?

Your Honor, please, can the witness be directed to just answer with yes or no? The counsel has her time to ask clarificatory questions later during the direct, Your

Honor.

Not all questions can be answered by yes or no.

I am on cross, Your Honor, please.

Never mind

Even if you're on cross. There are limits to cross-examination. Misleading questions are not allowed on cross.

They are allowed

Please counsels, let's not allow the generational or seeming generational divide increase the tension in the courtroom. Let's keep it a notch lower.

preventing myself from giving her a spanking, Your Honor.

Um

That is what I would

have done in the generational divide,

Your Honor, please.

You are all members of the bar and you are all counsels for the parties.

And we will be treating and looking at each one equally. Ms. Aileen.

Yes, Your Honor, I promise to henceforth behave.

Your Honor, can I please respond quickly lang? I have high respect for Atty. Kapunan. In fact, she's one of my idols.

You can end there,

counsel.

Let's end here. You

can end there.

It might sound like a eulogy, Your Honor. I'm still very much alive.

Kahapon nga, hindi ko nga siya kinukulit, diba? Kahit may mga questions na doon na leading, hindi naman allowed yun sa direct examination. I respected her. I, I, I, I ano din.

You can end there counsel if you respect her.

Thank you. Thank you po.

Miss Aileen, ayon sa tanong ng counsel, simple lang po naman, nakalagay ba sa Joint Memorandum Circular 2015-01 na kailangan may mahuli para maging successful ang isang

Pagbigay ng reward or information?

Wala pong nakalagay. Ang nakalagay lang po, proof of success of information gathering and or surveillance. So,

interpretation n'yo po yun na dapat may mahuli para maging successful?

Ay based po yun sa aking professional judgment and based on the evaluation po ng documents in... na ito is based po sa joint circular. Pero

hindi po yung nakalagay sa joint circular na maliwanag.

Hindi po. Nakalagay lang po proof of success.

Interpretasyon nyo na po yan.

Doon po sa pag-evaluate ko, yun po yung naging basis ko. Okay.

Please proceed, Attorney Christine. Salamat

po.

Okay, so sa tingin nyo, dahil gusto nyo dapat may huli, hindi part ng confidential activity yung crime prevention? Ganun ho ba? Hindi ho siya part nun.

Pwede pong pakiulit?

Hindi

ho part yung crime prevention na walang nangyaring masama. Doon sa event na yun, hindi ho yung part ng confidential work or surveillance.

Hindi pa po siya sufficient as proof of success.

Hindi siya sufficient. So, dapat talaga may mangyari na krimen at may mahuli para po may proof of success tayo.

Kasi nga po, meron po yung for payment of information and payment of reward. So, yung payment of information, yun kasi yung nakakatulong dun

sa... Simple

lang naman yung tanong ko, Celine, no? What if walang nangyari na masama dahil nga sa ginawang confidential work? at nag-certify ngayon sila, Chika, na walang nangyari na masama. There was no untoward incident. Ano yan? Is that a proof of success or not?

What is the objection of counsel? The

question is speculative, Your Honor. This is not based on what-ifs. This is based on facts and documents submitted, not on the what-ifs of counsel for respondent, Your Honor.

It's not

a what-if, counsel, because it was stated in the report that there was no untoward incident. Actually, that would have been one of the questions of the presiding officer as well, later on.

Sylene, ibahin natin ang payment for reward at payment for information. Ang payment for reward, yun ang hinahanapan mo ng success.

Opo, tama po.

Yung payment of information, hindi mo hinahanapan ng success yun?

Hindi po.

Tama po ba?

Opo, tama po.

So yung reward, kaya yung reward ang dinisallow at yung information, hindi mo dinisallow yung bayad na yun, di ba?

Hindi po. Hindi po na dinisallow yung purchase of information.

So ang dinisallow mo lang nga ay yung payment of reward, for rewards rather.

Opo, tama po.

At yun

ang hinahanapan mo ng success, hindi yung information?

Hindi po.

Magkaiba yun?

Opo, magkaiba po yun. Okay.

You may proceed, counsel.

Okay. So, dun sa payment of success, bilang requirement n'yo na may dapat nahuli. So, ibig sabihin ba nun dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli?

Kasi po, gaya

nga po nung kaninang

dini-de-referential ko.

Sagutin nyo lang yung tanong ko. Simple lang naman yun. Kailangan may mahuli. So, ano ba yun? Dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli?

Yun mo, di ba po ang nakalagay dun sa probable threats is may NPA? Ang hinahanap ko po kasing proof of success dun, yun nga po, kung may nahuli ba? Kasi yung pagkakaroon ng untoward incidents, pwede po yun kasing mag-fall sa purchase of information. Dahil sa purchase of information, nagkaroon ng, there were no untoward incidents. Yun po kasi yung parang pagkakaiba nila sa payment of rewards. Okay, so yun yung interpretasyon

mo? So, bawal magbayad ng reward dahil nagkaroon ng tip na may dito, may information na may mga taong may gagawin na masama. Tapos, Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Tapos, napigilan natin kasi nga hindi tayo pumunta sa lugar na yon. Hindi tayo nag-conduct ng event sa petsa na yon. based on confidential information. So walang untoward incident. So bawalo bayaran ng reward yung tao na nagbigay ng information.

Are you

done with the question?

I

think right now she is. I

make an objection, Your Honor.

Yes, what's your objection, counsel? Your

Honor, the counsel is now asking a misleading question. She is mixing payment of rewards and payment for information, Your Honor. The list required by this witness is for payment of rewards. Precisely, payment of information is not disallowed. Now, counsel is saying payment of informa... May we ask her to reform? Is she referring to payment of rewards or payment for information? Because the information here... It's not disallowed.

It's not

disallowed in the AOMs. Again,

counsels, kindly address the court or the presiding officer and not talk to each other directly. Ms. Aileen, to abbreviate and save on the court's time, Ms. Aileen, kapag kami nagbigay ng impormasyon, naghahanap ng threat, baka may threat sa Vice President, may nagbigay ng impormasyon, walang threat. Ligtas ng Vice President pag nagpunta siya dyan.

Hindi magkaklassify yun na pwedeng bigyan ng reward at success. Hindi naman kailangan, diba? Sanay tayo sa reward na nakatakip yung muka, diba? Tinuro kung saan nagtatago yung akusado, tinuro kung saan nagtatago kung sino man. Eto yun, reward. Pero wala bang reward kapag sinabing, okay magpunta dyan, walang problema, wala kayong kailangan nalalahan. Is that information or can that also be reward?

Magpo-fall po siya sa information.

So saan, kailan lang magiging reward yun kapag may naturo?

Opo, kasi yun yung proof of success.

Tuloy niyo po.

Yun yung proof of success nung information na ibigay kasi may na-apprehend po or yun po, ganun po.

Yun, ulitin ko po ah, yan ang interpretasyon niyo pero wala po yan sa Joint Memorandum Circular.

Yun po lang yung hinihinga under item 4.8.5.b.

Doon po

sa mga ibang na-audit ko, ang ina-attach po talaga nila is yung payment of rewards na may mga nahuli po.

Merong nahuli o na-apprehend?

May ganun pong mga naka-attach na mga dokumento. At

tulad dun sa iba, kapag walang nahuli o na-apprehend sa reward, ine-AOM o dinidisallow o sinuspend n'yo?

Hinahanapan po namin ng proof of success, opo.

Na may nahuli nga?

Opo.

To prove consistency on your part. But do you have any knowledge na yung mga predecessor mo, yan din yung standard na ginamit?

Pare-pareho po kami na based sa Joint Circular po ang aming basis ng audit. Pero wala nga dun eh.

So, interpretation mo, yan, at yan yung interpretation din ng mga nauna sayo sa pagkakaalam mo?

Sa akin po, yun po yung naging interpretation.

Okay. You may proceed, Katerina Christine. Salamat po, Your

Honor. I will go back the podium.

After nung... After nung na-evaluate nyo po yung mga responses po ng OVP, and including the DepEd, of course, nag-issue po kayo, okay, sa OVP muna tayo, nag-issue po kayo ng notice of suspension. We're referring to the office of the Vice President.

Opo, yung sa fourth quarter. Ang nag-issue pa po noon is...

Hindi, ang tanong ko for the year 2023, first to third quarter, may notice of suspension mo ba na na-issue? Wala

po. Okay.

Okay, punta tayo dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022.

Sige, dun muna tayo. Balik tayo. Kasi hindi naman kayo yung nag-issue ng AOM dun sa fourth quarter po, di ba po? Nag-2022? Hindi po. Oo, sige. So, dun na tayo. sa notice of suspension kasi naabutan nyo na ho yun, di ba po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022, nag-issue kayo ng notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023. Tama po ba?

Opo, tama po.

Okay.

Pero

sa 2023, wala kayong na-issue ng notice of suspension.

Opo, tama po.

I'm going to direct you to the JC, section 3.2. Ralph, kindly give her a copy of the JC.

3.2, notice of suspension. Nakita nyo na ho?

3.2, nakita nyo ho? 3.20 po. So sinasabi ho dyan, refers to a written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing of the temporary disallowance in audit of CE. CE po ay confidential expenses.

Opo, tama po.

And or IE, which appear illegal, improper, irregular, unless satisfactorily explained or justified by the responsible officers or until requirements on matters raised in the course of audit are complied with. Tama po?

Opo, tama po.

Pero in the case of The first and to third quarters, wala ho kayong in-issue na notice of suspension. Tama ho? Wala pong notice of suspension. Therefore, the Vice President, Office of the Vice President was not able to comment on any supposed finding. of the COA. Walang opportunity ho na magbigay ng comment yung Office of the Vice President bago pa ho ma-issue yung Notice of Disallowance.

Dumiretso po ito sa Notice of Disallowance.

Mamaya ho, mamaya ho, tatanungin ho kita. Doon muna tayo sa Notice of Suspension. So walang naibigay na oportunidad para mag-comment ang Office of the Vice President to any Notice of Suspension na hindi naman na-serve. Wala pong Notice of Suspension

na

na-issue. Thank you. Salamat po. Now, Sinabi mo rin kahapon na you dispensed with the notice of suspension because there was a supposed violation of 6.1.1 of the JC? Yes

po, tama po.

Okay.

Nasa JC ho ba, no, joint circular, na pag may violation ng 6.1.1, didiretso kayo sa notice of

disallowance? Under po kasi sa 3.19, nakalagay po doon na yung disallowance is written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing and requiring the persons liable to restitute the amount kasi nga po nakalagay dito as a result of illegal, irregular, and improper disbursement or expenditure of such funds.

Okay, so naiintindihan po kita sa Lynn, no? Ang tanong ko ho... Nasa joint circular ba ho na pag may violation ng 6.1.1 ay didiretso kayo sa notice of disallowance? Nasa JC ho yan? Kasi nga po yung... Sagutin

nyo

lang ho yung tanong ko na andun ho ba o wala? Pwede pong pakialit yung tanong. Sige.

Nasa

joint circular ho ba na pag may violation ng 6.1.1? dediretso na kayo sa notice of disallowance. Hindi n'yo na kailangan mag-issue ng notice of suspension. Opo kasi irregular na po

yung... Hindi po.

Ito po yung tinatanong ko po ay mismo yung provision na yung sinasabi ho ba niya. You can directly issue notice of disallowance without... Your Honor, this is ask and answered.

Asked and answered. That is your answer, counsel.

It's not in the memorandum circular, Sylene, right?

Meron po ang notice of disallowance po kasi ini-issue siya pag irregular na po yung paggamit nung pondo po.

Tama po kayo pero walang nakalagay na pwede kang dumiretso doon kapag ka, kung ano man.

Opo, basta nakalagay lang po na ini-issue ang ND pag irregular.

Kung sa pananaw mo, irregular na.

Opo.

Okay.

Salamat po, Your Honor. Now, ah... Punta tayo dun sa first and second notices of this allowance. I will refer to the first ND. I refer to the first ND. When I say first ND, that refers to the fourth quarter of 2022.

So, yung second ND naman, that refers to the first to third quarter of 2023. Okay? Para hindi nyo tayo malito. And for the guidance of the Honorable Court. Now, ang sinabi nyo yung basis po sa audit ng ICFA, sa audit nyo po, ng confidential funds ng Vice President at ng DepEd ay yung, syempre, yung Joint Circular, di ba po?

Apo.

Okay. So, Pag may-audito ng confidential funds, do you agree with me na dalawa lang naman yung outcomes nun?

Allowance or disallowance of a confidential expense, whether full or partial allowance or disallowance? Yung disallowance po. Pwedeng whole or in part. Okay, so tama yun. Pwedeng dalawa yung magiging resulta niya. Allowance or disallowance, in full or in part. Okay. Now, And if a confidential expense is disallowed, it is because, in your own opinion, the agency did not fully comply with the documentary requirements of the Joint Circular.

Opo, may hindi siya compliant with the Joint Circular.

Okay, sige, salamat to. And as someone who is familiar with the COA rules, ito po ay Masasagot n'yo bilang auditor at bilang familiar po kayo sa COA rules. Sa tingin n'yo ba ang joint circular is a penal law?

Your Honor, please, Mr. Presiding Officer, we object to the question.

If she knows, I'm overruled. If she knows, if she doesn't, she may say so.

Pinal law,

alam n

'yo ba yung penal law? Hindi po. I-de-define pa natin yung penal law ay yung batas na It is a law that defines a crime or a felony. Ganon po yung penal law. So sa tingin n

'yo, ito po bang joint circular? Ito po ba ay isang batas na nag-de-define ng krimen? Misleading, Your Honor. At my,

Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Witness is not

competent.

Even if you're

on cross, misleading is

not allowed. Not for that ground counsel. Witness would not be competent to answer that. She's not a lawyer nor a member of the bar, an accountant, and is part of ICFAO. Proceed to your next point, counsel, please.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Okay, thank you po, Your Honor. Sige, I will ask her nalang based on her personal knowledge. Now, based po sa circular, meron ho bang provision doon na kulong?

Pagkakakulong? Meron ho ba? Wala pong nakalagay sa circular. Okay. May provision ho ba doon na fines? Multa? Document,

Your Honor, document will speak for itself.

Objection.

Your Honor,

pwede pong mag-refer dito sa... Sige, sure. Oo. Okay lang po.

Meron po dito sa item 8, yung administrative provisions, penal sanctions. Yun lang po yung masasabi

ko na... Okay. Sige. Okay. I'll take that, sir. Pero, Sige, okay.

Alam n

'yo, kayo po ay part ng COA, di ba po?

Opo, tama po.

Pamilya ro

kayo sa administrative law kasi nasa gobyerno naman kayo. Anong

specific? Hindi po kaka.

Okay, I will just dispense with that question. So, in short, yung joint circular sa pagkakaintindi n'yo ay procedural rules na procedure siya. Kung paano ninyo ikakandak inyong audit of the confidential funds?

Yung Joint Circular po ang guidelines na ginagamit namin sa pag-audit po ng Confidential and Intelligence Funds. Ah, yes.

Okay.

I'll take that answer. Now, let's go to the first ND. Can it be flashed on the screen, please? Now, ND dated August 8, 2024, covering the fourth quarter of 2022.

We will be giving the witness a copy of the ND. Okay, meron na pala, no? So, in that ND, the amount of 73,287,000 was disallowed in audit out of 125 billion confidential expenses of the OVP for the fourth quarter of 2022. Tama po?

Opo, tama po. Okay.

At saka sa disallowance po nun, no, kung nakikita nyo sa screen at sa copy n'yo na ending. May tatlong grounds po yun. Agree po kayo?

Opo, meron dito po.

So, yung first ground po natin ay non-submission of documents evidencing success of information gathering and or surveillance activities with disallowed amount of 69,787,000. Nakikita n'yo ba yun? Opo. Okay. Yung pangalawa po, Charging payment for tables, chairs, and desktop computers and printers in the total amount of 3,500,000 to confidential fund without specifying that they were intended for confidential operations or activities undertaken by the OVP. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay, salamat. And letter number 3. Non-submission of the revised accomplishment report to the Office of the President, Senate President, and Speaker of the House of Representatives. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, sinabi n'yo kanina na itong fourth quarter na ito ng 2022, meron n'yo itong kalakip na notice of suspension. Tama po? Opo. Okay. So,

Can we flash the notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023? Okay. And this notice of suspension, nilabas ho siya, in-issue ho siya before ng issuance ng notice of this allowance. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, can we go to item number two? Miss Celine? Can counsel give her a copy? Sige, you can peruse po item number 2 of the notice of suspension. Okay, so item number 2. The DEPs likewise revealed that the OVP incurred the following expenses supported with acknowledgement receipts. Nakikita n'yo po yan? Opo. Okay. So, nakalagay ho dyan, payment of reward, open close parenthesis, various goods, 34,857,000.

Tama po? Opo. Okay. Payment of reward, open close parenthesis, medicines,

24,930,000, tama po? Opo. Payment of purchase supplies, 11,813,000, tama po? Opo, tama po. Payment of tables and chairs, 500,000. Opo, tama po. Payment of desktop computers, 3,000,000. Opo, tama po. Okay. Next paragraph po, sinabi n'yo dyan, no? Since the aforementioned expenses pertain to purchases, the same should be supported by either sales invoices or official receipts as evidence of payment of purchases from establishments slash stores. Nakikita nyo po ba? Opo. Okay.

Ngayon, nakikita nyo ba ako? yung statement na yan dun sa ND, nandun pa ho ba yan or tinanggal ho yan? Yung wala na po ito sa ND. Wala na ho, yeah, sa ND. Okay. So, flash natin ulit yung ND para makita ho ng mga tao. No? So,

ayan.

Okay.

So, tinanggal nyo na, no? Let's go to the second ND. Okay. Ito na yung first to third quarter ng 2023.

Okay.

Pakibigay ho ng kopya yung ating witness. Pakiflash ho ng second ND.

The date is March 31, 2026. Okay. So, yung second ND naman ho yun ay nag-disallow ng P375 million na confidential expenses ng Office of the Vice President. Opo, tama.

Punta ho tayo dun sa item number 1.

Payment of rewards.

Totaling 62 million. Okay. So, kita n'yo ho. 62 million?

Opo.

Okay. According to ICFAO, sabi n'yo ho, the documents evidencing success of the surveillance activities submitted by the OVP did not comply with item 4.8.5b of the Joint Circular because the documents were not able to specify the particular accomplishments demonstrating success of the information gathering. Nakita n'yo ho yun?

Opo.

Okay. So, tanong ho, no? Does the JC describe a particular format for this type of documents? Nasa may pro forma ho ba kung paano ho isusulat yung accomplishments demonstrating success of

the information gathering?

Ang nakalagay lang po dun sa Joint Circular is...

Hindi, ang tanong ko ay may template po ba yung JC?

Wala po. Wala po.

Okay.

In fact, hindi ho siya part ng annexes po ng JC. Ano po? Wala pong template na ganun kung paano namin isusulat kung ano po yung mga success of information gathering na yun, yung mga detalya na yun. Wala pong ganun. Your Honor,

please ask and answer the letter.

Okay. Move on, counsel.

Yes, po. So, sa JC, may nakikita ho ba kayong example? Paano isulat yun? Aside sa wala ho siya sa annexes, sinabi nyo kanina, may nilagay ho ba si JC doon na example na ganito dapat yung pagkasulat ninyo ng certification, evidencing success of the information gathering. Ganito dapat yung pagkasulat. May ganun ho ba sa JC?

Ang nakalagay lang po is documents evidencing success.

Okay. Okay. Sige, I'll take that answer. So, in disallowing the OVP's... documents evidencing success of its surveillance activities. Of course, you merely relied on your personal opinion or probably your professional opinion, no? Kung ano sa tingin n

'yo ang compliant with item 4.8.5 of the JC, tama po?

Binase ko po ang evaluation ko based on the Joint Circular and... Yes,

and ikaw yung nag-audit. So, basically, yun po ang inyong professional

judgment. Ano ho? And ito pong pag-audit kasi na to, dumadaan din po to sa review. So, nare-review din po ito ng aking division chief hanggang makarating po sa head of... Yes,

yes. In short, lahat kayo ng auditors based din sa judgment ninyo. So, opinion ninyo na itong document na ito ay hindi naayon sa Circular 4.8.5.

Not yet, Your Honor, because he said there were reviews that were undertaken.

So, lahat kayo, kakasali yung mga superiors mo, ito yung opinion ninyo, na ito ay hindi naayon sa circular 4.8.5. Your Honor,

please. I object. Again, counsel uses the word opinion, whereas this witness says,

professional judgment, Your Honor. There are two different things. Opinion is not professional judgment. No, Your Honor.

Besides, besides, counsels, please. Besides, witness already answered that that is not only her personal judgment and or opinion but also that of her superiors who reviewed Yes,

Your Honor.

her findings resulting in the notice of disallowance. You did not sign the notice of disallowance, correct, Celine?

Hindi po, pero meron po sa office namin yung second original copy, may countersign po kami. Pero ang ini-issue namin sa agency is yung may signed lang po ng aming...

So pataas, presumably, pag pinirmahan niyan ultimately at in-issue, nag-agree sila sa findings mo at yun din ang pananaw nila? Opo. You may proceed, counsel.

Okay. So sinasabi nyo na yun po yung pananaw po ng inyong mga superiors at ng sarili mo din, no? Meron ho bang guidelines yung COA na nagsasabi na ganito dapat yung assessment ninyo pagdating ho dyan sa submission ng documents evidencing success of information gathering? May mga clarificatory issuances ba yung COA nyan?

We base po ang our audit sa Joint Circular. Joint

Circular lang talaga. Okay. So, Okay. Punta ho tayo dun sa item number two, Ms. Cylene.

Okay, item number two, okay, the ND provides, no, number two, purchases of supplies and provisions of medical slash food aid totaling 199 million presented in table two were supported only by acknowledgement receipts. Okay, nakikita n'yo ba yan?

Opo.

So, eto hong ay table two na to, nakalagay, Ang total po niya, purchase of supplies, 117 million, provisions of medical and food aid, 82 million. Yung total po niya, 199 million. Tama po?

Opo. And

dinisallow n'yo siya because acknowledgement receipts lang yung supporting documents.

Dahil nga po, we cannot... Opo.

Ah, yun lang, eh, ano n'yo muna yung... tanong ko po, doon lang muna kayo sa sumagot. So, acknowledgement receipts lang, so disallowed, tama ko?

Yes po, because...

Mamaya na. May tatanong ko din. Wait for the question. Seline, no? Seline. So, sabi dun sa next paragraph, okay, may next paragraph po, tingnan nyo ho.

Although the joint circular, nakita nyo yan,

Opo.

Although the joint circular does not prescribe specific with... Does not? prescribed specificity to the documentary evidence of payments to be submitted to substantiate the disbursements made from the CF. This office pursuant to item 6.2.3.7 of the Joint Circular may require other supporting documents that we deem necessary for the proper evaluation of liquidation documents submitted. Nakita niyo po yan? Opo. Okay. Yung next sentence, sinasabi, to ascertain the validity of such purchases of supplies and provision of medical and food aid, we deem it

necessary that they be substantiated with appropriate documents such as official receipts or sales invoices. Sinabi po yan?

Opo.

Okay, so in short, mas... gugustuin n'yo na meron talagang official receipts and invoices na nakalakip doon sa submission ng OVP. To ascertain po

na talagang naibili ito ng supplies and medical and food aid.

Okay, sige, thank you. Of course, the answer is clear, no? So, okay, no? Pero, if you can recall doon sa ND ng fourth quarter ninyo noong 2022, pwede yun natin i-flashback, i-flash ulit.

Tinanggal ho dun yung requirement ng official receipts and invoices. Tama ho ba? Do you recall that? Kasi po yung... Hindi, just answer

my

question. Can,

Your Honor, please, can counsel for respondent show the particular provision, Your Honor?

Kindly flash it on the screen.

So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022. No?

Okay.

Wala, dun sa ND n'yo, tinanggal na n'yo yung requirement n'yo for sales, invoices, and receipts. Wala din

sa screen, counsel.

Can you please

confront them? They are

working on it.

Sylene, do you remember? Can you answer? Can you answer, Sylene?

Wala po siya doon, pero pwede ko po bang i-clarify yung answer?

Let the

opposing counsel seek that, but the question being as far as kung nandun o wala, so wala na siya doon sa notice of disallowance?

Wala na po.

Pero nandun naman siya sa notice of suspension dati, no? Okay. So, okay.

So, ngayon, Ms. Celine,

I understand, baka familiar na ako dito si Opposing Council. Alam niyo ba yung COA circular number 92-385?

Ayan po ba yung pinakita kay... Ayan po ba yung...

Sige,

mapapakita ko namin sa inyo.

Kindly show the witness.

Okay, hello.

Before she asked the question, Your Honor, for everybody to refresh their memories, this particular circular was presented by Atty. Towa to Atty. Wamil. And we had manifested that this circular dated 1992 has been superseded, has been amended, has been revoked by the current joint circular of five. government agencies, not only of Juan, Your Honor.

I remember that manifestation that it was impliedly repealed although it was not specifically mentioned in the repealing clause of the JMC. Yes. Yes, sir, but

I have different questions. Okay, so, pakibasa ho, with the indulgence of the opposing counsel, papabasa lang ho namin yung certain provisions, noong,

Fourth paragraph po.

Your Honor,

please, before

this

witness answers,

May we know this line of questioning because this witness precisely is being presented with a document and required or directed to read provisions or paragraphs of a document that is no longer in force and effect, Your Honor.

Let's give her some leeway, counsel. We will see where she will lead to.

So, paragraph 4, Your Honor, please. Ka-witness.

Whereas, these intelligence and confidential activities by their very nature are highly sensitive and confidential operations. The details of which cannot be divulged without posing a threat to national security or to the success of the mission.

Can you continue with paragraph 5, Celine?

Whereas, as now being required, the submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of disbursement from this fund for rental of safe houses, purchase of mills or supplies, and other expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations, endanger the lives and safety of the agent, and employees of the government agencies and result to a failure of the mission.

So, paragraph 6, sorry, medyo magbabasakan. Paragraph

6, Whereas, in many instances, is impractical and sometimes impossible to obtain such receipts, bills, or commercial invoices during intelligence operations. Ah,

last na ho, no? Paragraph 7. Whereas, by

its very nature, the use of intelligence and or confidential funds requires an approach allowing more flexibility in intelligence operations.

Okay. So, sinabi ho ng good counsel natin, no, na this is 1992 circular, no? Outdated na yan. Pero, agree ho kayo sa sinasabi niya na confidential operations are highly sensitive?

Totoo

pa naman ho yun hanggang ngayon, di ba po? Opo,

tama po.

At ayon sa circular, may mga detalya na hindi natin pwedeng i-disclose dahil dito nakasalalay yung success ng ating confidential operations.

based po sa document na ito.

Okay, pero as of today, totoo pa naman ho yun? Applicable ho yun? Sa tingin nyo ho?

Opo sa intelligence.

Okay, okay. And confidential activities also.

Your Honor, please, the answer was opo sa intelligence.

Hindi, I'm asking her about confidential operations. Applicable din ho yan pagdating sa mga confidential operations?

Opo, pwede din po. Okay,

salamat. Now, based on those statements na binasa ho ninyo, nire-recognize ho ng COA, based lang ho dyan sa statement na yan, no, na yung submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of certain expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations. Based lang ho dito sa binasa nyo.

Based po dito sa circular na ito.

Okay.

Okay. So, sa tingin n'yo yung mga konsepto na na-introduce po ng circular na ito ay applicable pa po sa panahon ito?

Objection, Your Honor.

What is the objection?

Your Honor, please.

This council is trying to elicit from this witness an opinion that indirectly runs counter to the express provision. in the Joint Circular of 2015, Your Honor, that all of these, everything she has said, all the paragraphs that she has read, precisely, Your Honor, if I can, I will state this later, Your Honor, but precisely, Your Honor, the Joint Circular, if we are to read the rationale for the Joint Circular, was precisely in recognition of the fact that this circular and several other circulars of intelligence and confidential government agencies are inaccurate and inconsistent with each other. Thus, the rationale of Joint Circular 2015 was precisely to make it one whole Joint Circular of five. agencies on intelligence and confidential funds. I

understand the point of Atty. Capunan. However, the question is quite simple for the witness. Although this may have indeed been impliedly repealed, again, impliedly repealed by the Joint Memorandum Circular, are the concepts stated herein still applicable today and are you still using it? I'll abbreviate the proceedings. Ms. Aileen, yung... Kawalan ba ng resibo na sinasabing okay lang sa circular na to? Okay pa rin ba hanggang ngayon sa Joint Memorandum Circular o hindi na?

Under po kasi sa Joint Memorandum Circular, under 6.2.3.7, we can request po other documents necessary for the proper evaluation po nung under 6.2.7 po. Other documents necessary. hindi audit po.

You can request for other documents, but the Joint Circular does not say that you should demand and ask for receipts. Wala dun yan.

Your Honor, just a quick manifestation, Your Honor. Your Honor, can the counsel for the prosecutors be reminded not to make... an argument, not to argue for the witness, Your Honor, because she's citing circular, she's citing laws, which is not allowed during cross-examination, and that is indirectly teaching her witness how to answer my question. So, please, Your Honor, can the court direct... counsel, not to make these arguments in court because these are not allowed under the rules of court, Your Honor. This is not a place where we are, no, this is not the time where we are supposed to expel or to state our oral arguments in this case. So, Your Honor,

this is part of the seeming generational divide tension that the court is trying to avoid. So let's leave it at that, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. I

was just going to say that I will accept.

Let's leave

it at that. I

accept

what she said, Your Honor. I will refrain from lecturing her, Your Honor.

Counsel, please. That's all

out

of order,

Your Honor.

Counsel, please.

Kindly proceed, Attorney Christine.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I will go back to the podium.

So, in relation to the question that you were asked by the chair, earlier you said that hindi naman required ng circular yung mga invoices and receipts, tama ko? Ang requirement po is other documents,

deems necessary. Yes,

but answer my question, hindi required yung invoices and receipts, sinabi mo yun kanina?

Opo, hindi po siya naka-enumerate doon.

In fact,

Item 4.12 ng JC. Kung may copy ka ho dyan, pakitingin. Item 4.12, please. It says that disbursements from CF shall be supported with documentary evidence of payment, among others, which shall be submitted to the ICFAO in a sealed envelope signed by SDO. So sinasabi dito, documentary evidence of payment. Tama po?

Opo, tama po.

Without specifying the kind of document that the agency should

submit. Tama? Opo, wala siyang in-specify. Ang nakalagay lang po, documents evidencing payment.

Okay. So,

yung

intention ho ng circular ay i-require ho yung invoices and receipts.

Bakit sa tingin nyo hindi nakalagay ho sa circular yun? Your Honor, please, we object

to the question.

What's the base of the objection, counsel? Argumentative. Speculative. Sustained.

Okay. Sige po. For

being argumentative. Yes,

Your Honor. I will move on. Okay.

Silin.

Silin pala. Sorry. Kasi silin d'yon. Silin. Okay. Silin, no?

The circular involves surveillance activities. Tama?

Confidential

and intelligence activities.

Yes, surveillance activities. Familiar ho ba kayo sa mga surveillance activities?

Excuse me, Your Honor, ask and answer it earlier.

Hindi ho, tinatanong ko, Your Honor, kung familiar ho sila kung ano ang mga surveillance activities. Witness

may answer. She evaluated those earlier and identified some of the things read by counsel as surveillance. So, she is competent to answer. Cylene, please answer the question.

Pwede po ulit pa kay ulit yung tanong po?

Pamilyar po ba kayo sa mga surveillance operations? Mga klase, uri, I believe, ng surveillance operations?

May konti po akong alam sa surveillance activities po. Okay.

Okay. Sige, I'll just move on to another point, Your Honor. So, okay.

Natapos na tayo dun sa invoices and receipts, no? Kayo ho ay certified public accountant to, Ms. Celine? Sylene?

Opo.

Okay. So, familiar po kayo sa tax code? National Internal

Revenue Code? Hindi po ako nag-practice nang sa bandang tax.

Pero pinag-aralan po natin yan sa college, sa accountancy, o.

Asama po.

Your Honor, we object to this line of questioning already. First, she asks this witness earlier if this witness is familiar with criminal laws. objection from prosecution sustained by the presiding officer. Now she's asking this witness, are you familiar with the tax code, Your Honor? We will make the same objection, Your Honor, beyond the scope of direct...

We'll note the objection. We'll see where she takes this counsel. We'll give her some leeway if she's on cross.

Yes, thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. So, yung tax code doon, nasa kurikulumo natin yan noong college po, di ba po? Noong nagti-take up tayo ng accountancy.

Yes po, taxation and law.

Okay, salamat po. Now, familiar ho kayo sa section 34 ho ng tax code?

Sige. Hindi ko na po maalala.

Ipa-flash ho natin yan sa screen, please. Section 34.

Can counsel just proceed to the question, Your Honor? That's it. That's it, Your Honor.

That's section 34. Ika-flash yun natin, no? Section 34B says, Substantiation requirements. No deduction from gross income shall be allowed under subsection A hereof unless the taxpayer shall substantiate with sufficient evidence. such as official receipts or other adequate records, the amount of the expense being deducted, and the direct connection or relation of the expense being deducted to the development, management, operation, and or conduct of trade, business, or profession of the taxpayer. Your Honor, please.

Counsel? We will object already to this line of questioning. It is totally immaterial. Irrelevant and beyond the scope. of cross-examination. There was no question yet, Your Honor.

Let's wait for the question, counsel. I think I know where counsel is leading to. Thank

you, Your Honor. Attorney Christine, go to your question. So, Section 34B refers to the deductibility of expenses under the tax code. If you can recall that.