1 00:05:52,780 --> 00:05:56,740 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senate President, the Presiding Officer, and the Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court. 2 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:24,590 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The 3 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:32,560 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sergeant 4 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,380 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: at Arms is directed to make a proclamation. 5 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:55,490 Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 6 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. 7 00:07:06,180 --> 00:07:06,840 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sa 8 00:07:20,570 --> 00:09:03,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: ngalan ng Ama ng Anak na Espiritu Santo, Amen. Aming mapagmahal na Diyos, bigyan mo po ng malinaw na pag-iisip, malinis na konsensya at matatag na panihindigan ang mga senador na nagsisilbing mga hukom ngayon. Nawa'y maging patas at walang kinikilingan ang aming paghatol. Hindi dahil sa politika, personal na interes, opinion ng publiko o anumang impluensya. Higit sa lahat, Panginoon, huwag mong hayaang ang hatul ay maimpluensyahan ng social media. Naway hindi siya mahatulan dahil lamang sa ingay ng mga opinion online at hindi rin siya mapawalang sala dahil sa popularidad o suporta ng iba. Ang maging batayan lamang sana ay ang katotohanan Ang batas at ang mga ebidensya ang iniharap sa paglilitis. Kung tunay nga na walang sala si Vice President Sara Duterte, bigyan mo ng tapang at karunungang kaming mga hukom na siya ay agad na mapawalang sala. Ngunit, kung ang mga ebidensya ay malinaw, matibay at sapat upang patunayang siya ay nagkasala, bigyan mo rin kami ng katatagaan na siya ay panagutin na naaayon sa batas. Panginoon, naway maging mabilis ngunit makatarungan ang paglilitis na ito. Huwag naway itong patagalin ng walang sapat na dahilan sa pagkatunay na ang kasabihang justice delayed is justice denied. Sa huli, naway hindi ang politika, social media o popular na opinion ang manaig kundi ang katotohanan, katarungan at kapakanan ng sambayan ng Pilipino. Ito ang aming sinasamo sa inyo, Panginoon. Amen. 9 00:09:04,650 --> 00:09:07,690 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Amen. The Clerk of Court will now call the roll. 10 00:09:08,050 --> 00:09:08,870 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Roll call of members 11 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:09,010 Unknown speaker: ... 12 00:09:09,010 --> 00:09:09,230 Unknown speaker: ... 13 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:55,680 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senator-Judge Aquino, Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan, Senator-Judge Cayetano Pia, Senator-Judge De La Rosa, Senator-Judge Ejercito, Senator-Judge Estrada, Senator-Judge Goh, Senator-Judge Ontiveros, Senator-Judge Lacson, Senator-Judge Lapid, Senator-Judge Legarda, Senator-Judge Marcoleta, Senator-Judge Marcos. Senator-Judge Padilla, Senator-Judge Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Soto III, Senator-Judge Tulfo Erwin, Senator-Judge Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge Villanueva, Senator-Judge Villar Camil, Senator-Judge Villar Marc, Senator-Judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge Escudero, Senate President, Senator-Judge Gachalian. With 14 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,380 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With 18 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum. 15 00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:10,910 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trial, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court. 16 00:10:11,830 --> 00:10:29,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the Journal of August 11, 2026 of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and shall consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court. 17 00:10:29,710 --> 00:10:36,030 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 18 00:10:36,510 --> 00:10:37,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances of the parties. 19 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Same appearance for the public prosecutors. We are ready, Your Honor. 20 00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:49,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Same appearance for the respondent, Your Honor. We are ready. 21 00:10:50,460 --> 00:11:02,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair would like to direct the Clerk of Court through the OSA to kindly escort the witness, Ms. Aileen, to the witness stand. to continue with her testimony. 22 00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:08,610 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Your Honor. 23 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While she is being led to the witness stand, yes, what is the pleasure of the Honorable Chua? 24 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:26,220 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Your Honor, I understand that this is a continuation of the direct testimony of our witness. May we request the counsel for the prosecutor, Atty. Kapunin, be recognized, Your Honor, please. 25 00:11:26,340 --> 00:11:32,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I believe the counsel for the panel of prosecutors, Atty. Lorna, terminated her direct yesterday. We are on cross today. 26 00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:35,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is that correct, Attorney Lorna? 27 00:11:37,770 --> 00:11:39,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: How is your platform, ma 'am? 28 00:11:42,210 --> 00:16:33,250 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: I pray that I do not fall from the apple cart. Your Honor, please, good morning, Mr. Presiding Officer, Honorable Impeachment Senate Judges, Senate Court Judges. We are disturbed, Your Honor. Although yesterday we terminated our direct examination, we are disturbed by a manifestation of counsel for the respondent when she said that the marking of the tabulations and summaries will no way be an admission, Your Honor, as to the authenticity of the acknowledgement receipts which form part of the tabulation and the summary, Your Honor. We therefore are constrained unless council now is willing to stipulate that the summaries which really and the tabulation which was really personally prepared by this competent witness of the COA ICFAO which office received and all acknowledgement receipts have an attestation that they are certified true copies of the person who has custody of the same, Your Honor. May we inquire from counsel of respondent if again, although the presiding officer did make it clear that when each individual acknowledgement receipt is presented, they have the right to cross-examine. And we have the right to ask the witness. Our concern, Your Honor, is the next witnesses that we will be presenting will not have any personal knowledge of this acknowledgement receipts. They will not be able to identify and authenticate. The only person who can do that, Your Honor, is the current witness, Sylene May del Campo. Now, we are constrained, Your Honor. To save the time of this honorable court, this presiding officer will recall that it also ordered, Your Honor, that the prosecution and the defense submit separately the list of documents, specifically acknowledgement receipts, to the Clerk of Court which office will be the one to make the comparison, Your Honor. Can we modify that order, Your Honor? Can we request, Your Honor, that in addition to the Clerk of Court comparing comparing the prosecution evidence and the defense evidence, an exercise which should have been done Thursday and Friday last week, Your Honor, that instead of just doing that, that this witness appear before the clerk of court to identify and authenticate, Your Honor, these documents in front of the prosecution, in front of the defense. and in front of the Clerk of Court. Thereafter, the Clerk of Court can make a finding or report or evaluation that these documents, I'm sorry, that these documents were properly identified, authenticated by this witness, Your Honor, to preempt any technical legal objection in the future. because, Your Honor, or in the formal offer, Your Honor, because counsel will recall, and this court will recall that while we had already ended our direct examination, counsel for respondents said that does not mean that this witness identified and authenticated the acknowledgement receipts. And therefore, Your Honor, if we may respectfully request the presiding officer to authorize or to designate the Clerk of Court to accept, 29 00:16:35,380 --> 00:17:28,790 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, not only the documents but likewise for this witness to appear before the Clerk of Court in front of counsels for both respondent and the prosecution to enable this witness to identify and authenticate based on personal knowledge, Your Honor, the documents that are part of the summaries, Your Honor. This way, Your Honor, we will not have to present again acknowledgement receipts this morning and identify each and every one. So, in sum, Your Honor, my manifestation is to the effect that we expand The directive of the presiding officer directing 30 00:17:30,770 --> 00:18:16,080 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: the parties to separately submit their documents and for the clerk to himself, itself, clerk of court's office to itself, make the comparison. We want to expand it to include that this witness, Ms. Silene, appear before the clerk of court. in the presence of counsels for the petitioner and for the respondent for the purpose of one, identifying, and two, authenticating the documents in the tabulation, sir. This will save the court two hours today. Your Honor, 31 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:28,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please. Counsel, before you respond, Attorney Christine, Counsel, Does your manifestation have anything to do with the fact that you've wound up your direct? Does that mean you intend to proceed with your direct again today? 32 00:18:29,390 --> 00:18:31,230 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: No, Your Honor. So your 33 00:18:31,230 --> 00:18:31,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: direct is done? 34 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:33,470 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: It's a manifestation 35 00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:35,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: in regard to the ARs? 36 00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:57,810 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, it depends on the discretion of the presiding officer. If the presiding officer will allow this witness to appear before the clerk of court, In front of both councils, Your Honor, for the purpose of identifying and authenticating the documents presented, Your Honor, then we will terminate our direct examination. 37 00:18:58,590 --> 00:19:00,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I believe you already did yesterday, counsel. 38 00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:32,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Your Honor, but under the control, we, private prosecutor, Your Honor, is under the control and supervision of the public, panel of public prosecutors who had expressed to this representation their concern. about a possible objection, a technical objection of the defense counsel on the issue of identification and authentication of these separate acknowledgement receipts. So, Your Honor. 39 00:19:32,680 --> 00:21:04,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In the interest of moving forward, don't worry, Atty. Sailin. No need to comment. The Chair will make a ruling. Last night, The acknowledgement receipts that came from the counsel for respondents were submitted already to the Clerk of Court for comparison with the ARs of the prosecution. Both are certified through copies, although some ARs are certified by a different certifying officer from COA, but both are certified through copies and we will proceed with the comparison. It was clear from the witness yesterday and it's clear to the court that she based her tabulation on the ARs that she said were all certified by the same person. That's your copy, counsel. And we took note of that and acknowledged that. These are certified true copies from both sides as you will compare to avoid that situation from happening. And we will be ruling on the admissibility of these ARs once it is formally offered based on this comparison. Without need for Silene really to tell us that they look alike or are alike. But counsel, as of yesterday, insofar as the randomly picked or well-chosen ARs yesterday, counsel for the respondent did not raise their copies. Apparently, or we will know now at cross, apparently there is no discrepancy or difference when you are presenting those ARs to the witness. 40 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:42,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And again, that is their right. to present their copy because their theory is they're questioning, correct me if I'm wrong, Atty. Sailin, the chain of custody. It might have been broken. But if it's not broken insofar as the ARs and after we compare it, then there is no need to further belabor this point. We will rule on the matter, counsel, at the appropriate time. But I'm telling you already where the court is at this point in time in relation to the ARs that Sailin testified to and where she based her tables and summaries upon. And that is the copies of the prosecutor. 41 00:21:43,950 --> 00:21:45,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I hope that settles the issue, counsel. 42 00:21:46,370 --> 00:22:06,800 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I think with that ruling, it is now clear that identification and authentication are presumed from the statement of the Presiding Officer subject to cross-examination. of counsel for the respondent, Your Honor. And 43 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:16,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: subject to the comparison that the clerk will be making of these copies coming from both parties, which you will make known to the parties without need of Silene's presence thereat. 44 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:53,930 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: My last manifestation, Your Honor, and this is for purposes of clarity, because at the end of yesterday's hearing, the party stayed, counsel, counsel for both parties stayed to mark the tabulations, Your Honor. And for purposes of the record, Can we just state, for the office of the Vice President, tabulations were marked in front of the Clerk of Court after the hearing, P-1-29, for December 2022, last quarter, the period, December 2021. 45 00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:58,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before you continue, counsel, the one you mentioned is the one made by Atty. Wamil. 46 00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:59,810 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Your Honor. 47 00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:03,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And the subsequent ones will be the ones made by Ms. Aileen. 48 00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:04,690 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Your Honor. 49 00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:05,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed. 50 00:23:05,770 --> 00:24:47,330 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: So, these have been marked after the hearing, Your Honor, upon direction of the presiding officer so as to make efficient use of time of the impeachment court. So, for the last quarter, tabulation made by Mr. Wamil, Attorney Wamil, was marked yesterday as P-1-29. For the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it's P-1-30. For the second quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it is P-1-31. And for the third quarter of the Office of the Vice President, marked as P-1-32. Before the Clerk of Court, and in the presence of Defense Respondents Council and Prosecutions Council. A summary of these tabulations was likewise marked for December 2022 P-1-29-1, which we have now, Your Honor, P-1-30-1 for the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President. p-1-31-1 for the second quarter and p-1-32-1 also which we have now, Your Honor, for the third quarter. For the deathbed, Your Honor, we likewise mark at the end of yesterday's hearing tabulations prepared personally by this witness and identified before the impeachment court. p-1-33 51 00:24:49,450 --> 00:25:32,100 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: for the first quarter, p-1-34 for the second quarter, and p-1-35, all tabulations. For the summary, Your Honor, of these tabulations, p-1-33-1 for the first quarter of the DepEd, p-1-34-1 for the second quarter, of the DepEd, and P-1-35-1, Your Honors, for the third quarter of the DepEd. With that, Your Honor, unless counsel... 52 00:25:32,140 --> 00:25:38,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted, counsel. The markings are mentioned by Atty. Capunan, Atty. Lorna. Duly noted. 53 00:25:39,410 --> 00:25:44,050 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: We need, therefore, reiterate that we have terminated our direct examination, Your Honor. 54 00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:50,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you very much, counsel. Attorney Christine, you may proceed with your cross when you are ready. You may proceed, ma'am. 55 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:51,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you, Your Honor. 56 00:25:53,380 --> 00:26:07,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Good morning, Celine. Is that the way that you pronounce your name, Celine? Sylene. Sylene, okay. So, you have been with the COA since 2014, right? 57 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:10,050 Cylene May L. Del Campo: August 26, 2014 po. 58 00:26:10,210 --> 00:26:13,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: August 26. So that is around 12 years already. 59 00:26:14,050 --> 00:26:16,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, magti-12 years. Okay. 60 00:26:17,150 --> 00:26:33,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: You assumed the accounts of the Vice President, the audit of the confidential funds of the Vice President and the DepEd when Attorney Wamil was reassigned to COA, Pasay, correct? 61 00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:34,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 62 00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:43,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Curious lang ako, Ms. Cylene, was that reassignment a promotion or just a plain reassignment, if you know? 63 00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:45,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung kay Mr. Wamil 64 00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:48,710 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po? Yes. Na-reassign po siya. Reassignment lang. 65 00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:54,190 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, that was on February 12, 2024. 66 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 67 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, Mr. Wamil was the one who prepared the AOMs. 68 00:27:03,370 --> 00:27:10,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: for the fourth quarter of 2024 for the OVP. Tama? 69 00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:15,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung AOM po is for the fourth quarter of 2022. Ah, 70 00:27:15,670 --> 00:27:43,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 2022 rather. Okay. And he also prepared the AOM for the first and second quarter of 2023 ng OVP. Okay. So, we will go back to that, no? So, when Mr. Wamil Reassigned to you his account? Was there any office memorandum that was issued by the COA reassigning you as the examiner? 71 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:51,800 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The question is misleading, Your Honor. It is not Mr. Wamil who reassigned the account to her. She just occupied the position, Your Honor. 72 00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:59,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The question was if there was an office memorandum reassigning her to take over from Wamil, not Wamil himself. Witness may answer? 73 00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:04,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa assignment po kasi namin, ang hawak namin... 74 00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:04,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just 75 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:17,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please answer the question. Was there an office memorandum assigning you to handle the accounts of the OVP and the DepEd, particularly the confidential audit of these two offices? 76 00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:23,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron po kaming order na ako po ang assigned na maghahawak ng national government agencies. 77 00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:28,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Particularly the office of the Vice President and the DepEd. Meron po kayo nun. 78 00:28:28,510 --> 00:28:30,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ask and answer, Your Honor. 79 00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:35,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, my question was specific. I'm referring to the DepEd and the OVP. 80 00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:36,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer. 81 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:41,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: These are national agencies. Your Honor, please, can the counsel allow me to continue my question? Ask 82 00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:45,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and answer, Your Honor. Witness may answer, Councils. 83 00:28:45,140 --> 00:28:49,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: May memorandum po ba na nag-assign sa inyo specifically sa DepEd at OVP? 84 00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:55,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung memorandum po is naka-assign ako sa national government agencies. 85 00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:56,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: All? 86 00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:57,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 87 00:28:57,370 --> 00:28:57,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, 88 00:28:57,910 --> 00:28:59,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll accept that answer, Your Honor. 89 00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:06,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Was it Mr. Wamil who personally turned over his files to you? 90 00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:14,130 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Iliwan po niya yung files niya sa office po nung malipat po siya sa COA Pasay. Sa 91 00:29:14,130 --> 00:29:17,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kaninong office sa'yo or kaninong office ba? 92 00:29:17,670 --> 00:29:20,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa custodian po namin sa COA Ikfaw. 93 00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:34,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, meron mo ba siyang iniwan na... endorsement sa inyo na ito lahat yung mga files na iniwan ko for this particular account, meron ho ba? For the OVP, meron ho bang siyang iniwan na endorsement? 94 00:29:35,530 --> 00:29:39,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung mismo mga files po, iniwan po niya sa custodian namin. 95 00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:51,700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ah, endorsement ho, like letter, a summary containing all the, containing a list of the files that he turned over to the custodian, meron ho bang ganon? 96 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:54,380 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron po kaming logbook pag natapos na po yung... 97 00:29:54,380 --> 00:29:57,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Logbook. Okay, pero dala mo ba yun ngayon? 98 00:29:57,540 --> 00:29:58,200 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 99 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:13,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So how about... Doon sa DepEd, may iniwan ho ba siyang transmittal doon sa kustodyan na ito lahat yung mga iniwan kong files with regard to the audit of the DepEd Confidential Funds? Meron ho ba? 100 00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:15,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang iniwan po niya is yung mismong document. 101 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:20,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung mismong document. So walang transmittal na iniwan ho doon sa kustodyan? 102 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:23,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, yung mismong documents po yun. Okay, 103 00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:24,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sige. 104 00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:39,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: May iniwan ho ba si Mr. Wamil sa inyo? Diba sabi niyo, may mga documents ho siyang iniwan? Diba pag nag-audit ho tayo, meron ho tayong tinatawag na working papers, yung mga drafts po natin. May iniwan ho si Mr. Wamil sa inyo nun? Your 105 00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:53,730 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, please, again, the question is misleading. This witness already said, asked and answered that Mr. Wamil did not leave documents to her. Mr. Wamil left the documents to the office. 106 00:30:53,730 --> 00:30:53,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I will 107 00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:55,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: rephrase. I will rephrase. 108 00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:55,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly 109 00:30:55,530 --> 00:30:58,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: rephrase, counsel. May iniwan bang worksheets sa kustodyan? 110 00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:05,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po. Nakasama po dun sa files yung mga working papers po. Alright. 111 00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:07,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. I'll take that answer. 112 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:19,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kayo po, paano nyo kinuha yung mga files na yun? Kinuha nyo lang diretsyo sa kustodyan? Ano pong proseso 113 00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:35,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: nun? Nung ma-assign po sa akin yung sa OBP at sa DepEd, nung nag-submit po sila ng response, binigay po sa akin yung response together with the documents na pinagbasehan po nung audit observation memorandum po. Ah, 114 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: okay. So, in short, niroute lang sa'yo yung response. 115 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:44,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Tama, ho? Response together with yung AOM, together with the attachment po na yung mga dokumento. 116 00:31:44,380 --> 00:31:50,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, ah... Kailan ho yan ni-route sa inyo? Yung response, yung AOM, 117 00:31:50,340 --> 00:32:07,800 Cylene May L. Del Campo: mga estimate lang po. Iba-iba po kasi diba ang una is yung March 13, 2024 na response nila sa NS. Naibigay po sa akin to March 14. Yung sa iba po hindi ko na matandaan yung exact dates pero malapit po dun sa after masubmit yung response. 118 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:21,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. I'll take that answer. Okay. So... One meal prepared the AOM for the fourth quarter of 2022 for the Office of the Vice President. Tama po? 119 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:22,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 120 00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:29,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: How about the first to third quarters of 2023? Sino ba yung nag-prepare ng... 121 00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:57,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: AOMs na yun, dalawa ho yun. Yung sa OBP po, na first and second quarter 2023, nandun pa po siya nung ma-issue po yung AOM. Yung sa third quarter po, siya yung nag-draft, pero nung na-finalize na po yun, wala na po siya sa COA-ICFAO. So, yung custody po ng document na yun, nasa division chief. Kaya nung finalize po yun, division chief na po yung nag-finalize. Okay. So, alright. 122 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:07,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, we will flash these AOMs. Kasi nga si Mr. Wamil nga yung nag-prepare nung iba sa kanila. 123 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige. 124 00:33:18,150 --> 00:33:33,240 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: May we know from counsel which AOM she will be flashing? Is it the defendant's document or the prosecution's document? Because the defendant's documents were not identified nor presented to this witness. 125 00:33:36,050 --> 00:33:36,690 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Then 126 00:33:36,690 --> 00:34:02,480 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: if counsel wants to... confront the witness with documents she has identified. She has to use the prosecution's evidence because that was the one identified by the witness. If she now intends to present the defense documents, they are not documents that have been identified nor authenticated by this witness during her testimony. We will 127 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,780 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: have a 128 00:34:03,780 --> 00:34:35,520 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: continuing objection. Excuse me, counsel. We will have a continuing objection to their presenting their documents which have not been identified by the witness. They are AOMs. AOMs have been identified by the witness but these are prosecution's AOMs, Your Honor. May I suggest, Your Honor, to the defense counsel since she refused for us to use the defense witnesses that she uses now, the prosecution's documents. 129 00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:49,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That is up to her, counsel. She may confront the witness with their copy of the AAM. I'm sure she would be competent to testify whether these are the same documents earlier identified as exhibits for the prosecution or not. Counsel, you may proceed. 130 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, correct, Your Honor. And they're AOMs. We did not dispute those. So we have the same copies. Can we proceed, counsel? 131 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:06,450 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: In connection with that, Your Honor, since counsel admits that our AAMs are their... defendants, AOMs. Can we just use the prosecution's copies, Your Honor? 132 00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:16,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: But, Your Honor, we have prepared, you know, visually using them. Show them. Show the document. Yeah, I will. I am showing the defense document. No, we will not agree. No, 133 00:35:16,050 --> 00:35:23,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, the counsel cannot dictate how I will proceed with my cross-examination. Can the counsel, Your Honor, be reminded that I'm on cross-examination? 134 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:34,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: We will not agree, Your Honor, to the presentation of defense documents. because precisely there was no stipulation yesterday. They are now constrained. Excuse me, counsel. 135 00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:36,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Allow her to finish, 136 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:37,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. They are 137 00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:57,690 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: now constrained, Your Honor. I'm sorry. They are now constrained to use our documents precisely. This is what we wanted to avoid yesterday. Had we did a comparison, not to belabor the obvious, Your Honor, but now counsel says, anyway, it's the same. So if it's the same, what's the objection to using the prosecution's document? 138 00:35:58,130 --> 00:36:15,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, that water is already under the bridge. You may request assisting counsel to check the copy being presented to Ms. Aileen and you may make this the subject matter of your redirect later on. Allow counsel to present Thank you, Your Honor. The presenting 139 00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:23,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: officer will allow the counsel to present that document but notes the continuing objection of Atty. Capone with respect to this matter. Thank 140 00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:23,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, 141 00:36:23,540 --> 00:36:24,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Okay. 142 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:37,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, I am presenting you the AOMs that were issued to the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd. 143 00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:59,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, the first AOM is dated September 14, 2023. It's AOM number 2023- 211. 144 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:02,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The 145 00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:08,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: assisting counsel can check this copy. Anyway, 146 00:37:10,820 --> 00:37:33,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I can dispense with that. The second AOM is October 3, 2023. Now, I will direct you to the last page. It says here RCW, JMQ, GAC, RRS, and BP. So, RCW is Roderick C. Wamil, correct? 147 00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:34,670 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 148 00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:36,730 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Who is JMQ? 149 00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:45,050 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dati pong staff namin sa ICFAO. GAC? Division Chief po ng IGFAO. 150 00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:48,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: If you can state her name or his name? 151 00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:52,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Si Atty. Gloria A. Camora. 152 00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:56,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. This is Gloria A. Camora. RRS? Dati din pong... 153 00:37:57,660 --> 00:37:59,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: D.C. sa IKFO pero retired na po siya. 154 00:37:59,740 --> 00:38:01,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. NBP is the 155 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: signatory? Opo, si Ascom Nilda Plaras. 156 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:29,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, we will proceed to the third AOM for the OVP that is dated February 1, 2024. So, I will direct you to the routing list. Do you agree that this 157 00:38:29,050 --> 00:38:34,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: is a routing list? Sila po yung nag-evaluate, nag-review ng documents. 158 00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:46,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yeah, I was about to ask you that question. Thank you for confirming. Now, it's RCW, Roderick Siwamil again, JMQ, RRS, NBP. 159 00:38:46,350 --> 00:38:47,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama. 160 00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:48,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. So, 161 00:38:52,040 --> 00:39:00,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: let's go to the AOM for the OVP dated August 8, 2024. 162 00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:16,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: On the last page, the routing list, it's RCW, GAC, RRS, NBP. But this is August 8, 2024. 163 00:39:17,740 --> 00:39:18,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala 164 00:39:18,340 --> 00:39:23,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na si Roderick Wamil dito sa ICFAO. Wala na po 165 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: siya pero dyan po kasi siya yung nag-draft po ng A&M. Siya 166 00:39:26,980 --> 00:39:27,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung nag-draft 167 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: neto. So meaning, when... 168 00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:31,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: He 169 00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:35,640 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: drafted this. He left this doon sa records ba? Or saan? 170 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yan po kasi may draft na siya. Nasa division chief. Nasa division chief. Chief. 171 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:44,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, from February to August. So, ilang months yun? 172 00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:52,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: February, March, April, May, June, July, August. After six months, doon lang na-release yung AOM. Nung wala na si Wamil. Tama? 173 00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:54,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi po. Sorry. 174 00:39:55,210 --> 00:39:58,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Just answer my question. Can you please repeat 175 00:39:58,670 --> 00:39:59,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the question? 176 00:39:59,830 --> 00:40:19,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, From February 2024, noong umalis na si Mr. Wamil, iniwan niya ito sa Division Chief na. So, na-release ito. Your Honor, preparatory nga. Sabi nga niya, i-repeat ko daw. She's laying 177 00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:22,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the basis for question counsel. So, after 178 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: six months, doon lang na-release 179 00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:40,380 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung AOM. Dahil po dumaan pa ito sa review. Hindi ka kasali dito sa grupo na nag-review, nag-draft. Wala, wala kang participation dito. Na-review ko po yan noong nag-evaluate na po ako ng mga responses. 180 00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:45,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Binasa ko din po yan noong nag-evaluate ako ng responses sa notice of suspension. 181 00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:51,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So in short, nakita mo lang to after it has been issued by the COA-ICFAO. Tama? 182 00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:54,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi yun yung naging basis ko ng evaluation. 183 00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:55,480 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, o. Okay, 184 00:40:55,620 --> 00:41:03,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: okay. Next is, The audit observation memorandum for the, sorry, 185 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:05,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: DepEd. 186 00:41:07,660 --> 00:41:08,220 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wait. 187 00:41:09,930 --> 00:41:11,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, can I just confirm my concept? 188 00:41:15,610 --> 00:41:31,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, let's go to the DepEd, ano? Sige, doon din tayo sa routing list, no? February 1, 2024, nandito pa si Roderick Guamil kasi RCW, JMQ, RRS, NDP. 189 00:41:31,450 --> 00:41:32,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Alright. 190 00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Let's go to August 8, AOM. 191 00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:50,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: RCW, GAC, RRS, and BP. Wala na si RCW pero nasa division head. 192 00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:50,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, 193 00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:52,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: pareho po nung sa OBP. At 194 00:41:52,330 --> 00:41:57,730 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: saka na-review mo lang to nung na-issue na ng division head, ng ICFAO. 195 00:41:57,730 --> 00:41:58,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, nung 196 00:41:58,370 --> 00:42:00,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: mag-eevaluate na po ako ng response. Okay, sige. 197 00:42:00,090 --> 00:42:00,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat si Lyn. 198 00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:20,560 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, may we just note for the record? that the documents presented to this witness were defense exhibits. 199 00:42:21,860 --> 00:42:22,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That has been noted, Your Honor. 200 00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:43,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so punta naman nun tayo dun sa responses ng Vice President, no? Ah, nagsubmit ho sila nung letter dated April 19, 2024. Okay. At part 2 nung letter nun, nagsubmit ho sila ng protective intelligence reports. Naalala niyo po yun? 201 00:42:44,110 --> 00:42:46,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, attachment po yun dun sa response nila. 202 00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:49,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, David, 203 00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:51,810 Cylene May L. Del Campo: may 204 00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:54,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: request, 205 00:42:59,430 --> 00:43:02,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: David, to please flash our 206 00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:05,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: assisting 207 00:43:05,570 --> 00:43:06,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: counsel. 208 00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:16,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, David po ang pangalan niya para pwede niyo siya i-direct kung nagkakamali siya, kung hindi niyo naayon yung fina-flash niya. 209 00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:17,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you for that, counsel. 210 00:43:17,650 --> 00:43:20,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, sige, punta tayo dito sa... Can we 211 00:43:20,690 --> 00:43:20,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: also, 212 00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:24,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, call our assistant? Counsel, Your Honor, Atty. 213 00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:25,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: J. De 214 00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:25,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: La Cruz. 215 00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:26,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, 216 00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:33,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ito, exhibit na ito, again, we'll use our exhibit counsel. 217 00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:50,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Itong exhibit na ito, minarkahan po as D-1 or D-1, D-115, OVP-C. So, ito po, so, 218 00:44:04,330 --> 00:44:11,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kasama ho dun sa submission ng Office of the Vice President is a certification dated April 4, 2024. Tama ho? 219 00:44:11,770 --> 00:44:13,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasama po yun sa response. 220 00:44:13,970 --> 00:44:19,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat Celine. Ito ay in-issue ni Raymond Dante P. Lachica. 221 00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:21,830 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama. 222 00:44:21,850 --> 00:45:11,400 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so sinasabi ho dito sa first paragraph. This is to certify that the confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 127 areas during the first quarter. of CY 2023 and 111 areas during the second quarter of 2023, which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring during the engagements of the Vice President and the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabella, Incagayan, in Cagayan Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of OVP, Libreng Sakay. Do you see that, Celine? 223 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po. 224 00:45:12,350 --> 00:45:12,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat. 225 00:45:14,570 --> 00:45:25,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero sinabi n'yo sa findings n'yo na it doesn't pass the proof of success of the intelligence activities, correct? 226 00:45:25,660 --> 00:45:29,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, under 4.8.5, hindi po sa sufficient. So, 227 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:42,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kasali ho dyan sa letter na yan are what we call as Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte. Nakita nyo ho ba yun? 228 00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:43,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 229 00:45:44,200 --> 00:46:01,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so sa bawat quarter na yun, may summary of intelligence work. Nabasa nyo ho ba yun? Yung summary po noong... Ang tanong ko... Nabasa nyo ba bawat quarter yung summary of intelligence work? Yung narrative po, yung activity, location, 230 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung timeline po, nakalagay po sa P.I.O.R. So, 231 00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:08,360 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll take that answer, no? So, 232 00:46:09,260 --> 00:46:15,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'm 233 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:45,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: showing you this document, no? This is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-C, Your Honor, with the caption, Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara G. Duterte, 1st Quarter CY 2023. Now, punta ko tayo sa item number 4. 234 00:46:47,780 --> 00:47:04,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, number 2 muna tayo sa scope. You can read it with me. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence. Do you confirm that? Protective intelligence operations. 235 00:47:05,070 --> 00:47:06,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 236 00:47:06,450 --> 00:47:13,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: During the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the first quarter of CY 2023. Do you confirm that? 237 00:47:13,830 --> 00:47:14,050 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, 238 00:47:14,130 --> 00:47:48,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: tama po. Number four. Punta tayo sa number four. Item four, you can read it with me. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice-President, Vice-Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice-President Sara Z. Duterte or Vice-President Sara Duterte from January 1 to March 31, 2023 are listed below. So nakita n'yo yan, sakto 239 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung basa ko ng narrative. Opo, nakalagay po yung engagement. 240 00:47:52,340 --> 00:47:53,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat. 241 00:47:55,860 --> 00:49:29,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Letter, pero nakalagay dito in support of the Presidential Security and Protection Groups Protective Security Operations. Based po sa document. Alright, sige. Letter A, nakalagay dito ikala, ika, 106 na taong pagkakasarinlan ng bustos minasa festival, festival, festival, Ceremony opening. So, nakalagay, date covered, January 2 to January 10, 2023. Location, BMA Park, Poblasyon, Bustos, Bulacan. Number 3, probable threats, NPA and criminalities. So, number 4, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Nakita niyo ba yan? Opo, based po sa dumang comment. Okay, salamat po. Nakalagay mo sa timeline of activities na ito, may nakalagay yung table, no? Tingnan lang natin isa-isa, no? Kung ito ba talaga ay intelligence work o hindi, no? So, itong number 5, tingnan mo natin yung item number 5. liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in the municipality of Bustos and its neighboring communities. Ano yan? Intelligence work ko yan? O ano lang ng admin work lang ng Office of the Vice President? 242 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang pagkakaintindi ko po dyan, yan yung naging part ng ano yung activities yung sa... 243 00:49:34,980 --> 00:49:36,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, tatanungin kita, based on 244 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:48,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: how it appears, ano yan? Leasing with Intel Operatives, ano yan? Normal lang ho yan sa Office of the Vice President na mag-lease with Intel Operatives? Or part ho ba yan ng intelligence work? Sa tingin nyo lang ho. 245 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya sa Intelligence Gallery. Okay, 246 00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:20,640 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: salamat po. Number 7, Intelligence Fusion with the... for the threat assessment and situation update. Ano po yan? Papasok po yan sa intelligence or normal work lang yan ng OVP? 247 00:50:21,460 --> 00:50:23,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa intelligence. Salamat po. 248 00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:44,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, ito. Dito tayo sa actual operations, no? Profiling of participants who will be attending the event provided by organizers. Part 2 ba yan ng normal na function ng OVP? Or papasok po siya sa intelligence work? 249 00:50:45,740 --> 00:50:47,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa intelligence work po. 250 00:50:47,420 --> 00:51:02,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat po. Deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate, from the landing zone to the venue. Is that an OVP admin work or intelligence-related ho yan? Kasama 251 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po yan sa intelligence-related activities. Okay, salamat po. 252 00:51:05,710 --> 00:51:06,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 253 00:51:07,950 --> 00:51:17,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Gusto ko man hong isa-isahin ito, Your Honor, pero I think we are constrained by time. The court can peruse the documents for its information. We have all the time, 254 00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:18,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Witness. Gusto 255 00:51:18,830 --> 00:51:19,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: mo, attorney? 256 00:51:19,970 --> 00:51:24,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Once it is formally offered, that's when we will be able to peruse it. 257 00:51:24,830 --> 00:51:29,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so ito yung first quarter pala ho ito, Ms. Celine. 258 00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:36,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Let's go to the second quarter. 259 00:51:43,340 --> 00:51:43,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 260 00:51:46,010 --> 00:51:49,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, punta ho tayo sa second quarter ng 2023. 261 00:51:52,620 --> 00:51:53,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It 262 00:51:55,700 --> 00:52:33,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: is covered by the same letter of Mr. La Chica. So, punta ho tayo dito sa title. By the way, Your Honor, this is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-M. Okay, so ang title nito ay Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte, Second Quarter 2023. Now, punta ho tayo sa scope. 263 00:52:35,470 --> 00:52:58,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Basahin nyo natin, Ms. Celine, no? This report, number two, item two, this report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the second quarter of 2023. Tama po ba yung binasa ko? 264 00:52:58,740 --> 00:52:59,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 265 00:52:59,860 --> 00:52:59,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ay, 266 00:53:00,020 --> 00:53:39,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: salamat po. Narrative number four, the protective Intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice President Sara Duterte from April 1 to June 30, 2023 are listed below. Letter A, puntaan natin yung letter A, no? Yung caption niya, National Economic and Development Authority, Social Development, Committee, cabinet-level meeting. Do you see that? 267 00:53:39,580 --> 00:53:40,560 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 268 00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:45,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, yung date covered po niya ay April 2 to 5, 2023. Tama po ba? 269 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:46,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 270 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:57,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Location po niya ay Astoria Plaza, Hotel 15J, Escriva Drive, Ortigas Business District, Pasig City, Metro Manila. Tama po? 271 00:53:57,420 --> 00:53:58,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 272 00:53:58,620 --> 00:54:14,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. Nakalagay po ang possible threats. Letter A, cost-oriented cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Nakita n'yo ba yan? 273 00:54:15,350 --> 00:54:15,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 274 00:54:15,870 --> 00:54:23,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Tama po? 275 00:54:23,410 --> 00:54:24,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 276 00:54:24,670 --> 00:54:58,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So number five, nakalagay na dito yung timeline of activities. Shown below, the timeline of activities for the engagement of the Vice President. Now, Punta ako tayo sa number 3. Okay. Liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminals in Pasig City and its neighboring communities. Ano ba yan? Administrative work lang ba yan ng OVP or part ba yan ng intel work? Tingin n'yo. 277 00:54:58,240 --> 00:54:58,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Intel work po. 278 00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:01,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 279 00:55:03,150 --> 00:55:13,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 6. Intelligence fusion with for the threat assessment and situation update. Intelligence work or normal lang yan na part ng OVP? 280 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:14,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Admin work. 281 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Intelligence work po. Okay, salamat po. 282 00:55:19,780 --> 00:55:32,810 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Eto, number 8, ocular inspection, casing and surveillance of the venue. Ano ba yan? Part lang yan ng OVP admin work or intelligence work? Who yan? Sa tingin n'yo po? 283 00:55:33,130 --> 00:55:34,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Intelligence work po. 284 00:55:34,570 --> 00:55:42,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat po. Number 12. Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants. 285 00:55:47,210 --> 00:56:05,330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Part 2 ba yan? Sorry, I'll... Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants. Is that part of the confidential... operations of the VP, OVP, or normal work lang yan ng OVP? 286 00:56:06,570 --> 00:56:08,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya as confidential work. 287 00:56:08,970 --> 00:56:16,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, confidential work, no? So, actual operations, eto, number 14. 288 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, number 14 tayo. 289 00:56:22,110 --> 00:56:35,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, number 13 muna, ito interesting. Profiling and security tagging of participants who will be attending the event. Part 2 ba ng confidential activity yan or normal lang yan na part ng OVP? 290 00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:35,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Admin work. 291 00:56:38,970 --> 00:56:41,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 12 po. Kasama 292 00:56:41,070 --> 00:56:42,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po sa, parang papasok siya sa surveillance. 293 00:56:43,530 --> 00:57:01,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, surveillance, no? Number 14, okay, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP and MMDA. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance activities or normal lang yan sa OVP? 294 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Part po ng surveillance activities. 295 00:57:03,780 --> 00:57:17,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat po. Number 16, provided intelligence coverage prior to the arrival Actual and departure of the Vice President. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance? Or normal lang yan sa OVP? 296 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:18,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Surveillance. 297 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:36,190 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat. May nakalagay dito na post-operations. Okay, number 18. Continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Pasig City Police Office. 298 00:57:36,190 --> 00:57:41,170 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Surveillance ho ba yan? Or normal lang na admin work yan ng Office of the Vice President? 299 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,360 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Surveillance. 300 00:58:22,380 --> 00:58:30,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes. Oo. Pero, I mean, covered pa yun ng submission kasi nakalagay naman dito. Excuse me 301 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: lang, Your Honor. I will confirm with my counsel. 302 00:58:46,810 --> 00:58:58,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Ayun na. So, may certification dito na sinubmit si Mr. Dan Telachica dated September 30, 2023. 303 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,730 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nakalagay dito. Babasahin ko ho, si Lyn, okay lang? 304 00:59:05,950 --> 00:59:06,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sige, 305 00:59:06,590 --> 00:59:54,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sabay tayo. This is to certify, ah, si Lyn pala, sorry po. This is to certify that confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 122 areas during the third quarter of CY 2023 which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring. During the engagements of the Vice President and in the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabela, Incagayan, Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of the OVP Libringsakay Program. Tama ho ba yung binabasa ko? 306 00:59:54,670 --> 00:59:55,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 307 00:59:55,330 --> 01:00:04,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So ito ho yung naging support niya, proof of success of the... Information gathering na sinabit ni Office of the Vice President, tama ho? 308 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, response po nila sa AOM for the third quarter. 309 01:00:07,220 --> 01:00:35,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat po. Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-B for the court's information. Now, may naka-attach ho dito na PAYOR, yun yung tawag natin doon, Protective Intelligence Operations Report. for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter of 2023. Nakikita n'yo ba yan? 310 01:00:36,140 --> 01:00:36,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 311 01:00:36,960 --> 01:01:06,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-C for the respondent. Now, tingnan mo natin yung scope again, Celine. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments. of the VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagement of the Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter CY 2023. Do you see that? 312 01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:08,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay, 313 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:32,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: salamat. Number four, narrative. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagements of the Vice President Sara Duterte from July 1 to September 30, 2023 are listed below. Tama ba yung binabasa ko? 314 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:33,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 315 01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:50,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. So, letter A. May nakalagay ho doon, DPWH inauguration and opening of Davao City Coastal Bypass Project, Segment A. Date covered, June 28 to July 1, 2023. 316 01:01:52,610 --> 01:01:58,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Davao City Coastal Road, Times Beach, Ecoland, Davao City. Sakto? Sakto pa yung binabasa ko? 317 01:01:59,230 --> 01:01:59,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay, 318 01:01:59,950 --> 01:02:10,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: thank you. Probable threats, Letter A. cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Tama po? 319 01:02:10,820 --> 01:02:11,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay, 320 01:02:11,900 --> 01:02:12,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: thank you. 321 01:02:14,020 --> 01:02:20,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT, ICT4, tama po? 322 01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:20,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 323 01:02:21,040 --> 01:03:00,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, number five, timeline of activities, no? As shown below, the timeline of activities of the Vice President are as follows. So, tingnan natin yung number four kung Magpo-fall po yan sa confidential or surveillance work, no? Number four, liaising with intel, operatives, and respective informants of the PNP and AFP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in Davao City and neighboring Areas, does that fall under confidential activity or normal lang yan sa administrative work or normal administrative work lang yan ng OVP? 324 01:03:00,660 --> 01:03:02,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya sa surveillance. 325 01:03:02,540 --> 01:03:03,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat. 326 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:16,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 5 po, no? Intel fusion with the, for the threat assessment and situation update. Papasok po siya sa surveillance. 327 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:20,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay, 328 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:21,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: salamat po. 329 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Eto hong number 11, no? 330 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:42,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Final briefing to Intel operatives and informants. Ano ba ito? Normal lang ito na trabaho ng OVP or part ito ng surveillance or confidential work? 331 01:03:42,180 --> 01:03:44,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya sa surveillance activity. 332 01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:55,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. Then, baba tayo dito sa actual operations, no? Itong profiling and security tagging of the participants, item number 12, who will be attending the event? 333 01:03:57,130 --> 01:04:05,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Papasok po ba na normal admin work lang yan ng OVP or papasok po siya as confidential work or surveillance? 334 01:04:05,590 --> 01:04:07,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya dun sa surveillance. 335 01:04:07,550 --> 01:04:20,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat. Number 13, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP. Surveillance or normal work lang yan ng OVP? 336 01:04:21,390 --> 01:04:22,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya sa surveillance. 337 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:31,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 14, provided intel coverage prior to the arrival, actual and departure of the Vice President. 338 01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:38,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Surveillance or normal lang yan? Part lang yan ang admin work ng OVP? 339 01:04:39,010 --> 01:04:40,410 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Papasok po siya sa surveillance. 340 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, post-operation. 341 01:04:47,580 --> 01:05:02,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 16, continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Davao City Police Office and TF Davao. Pasok ko siya sa admin work or surveillance or confidential work? 342 01:05:02,780 --> 01:05:03,580 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa surveillance. 343 01:05:03,580 --> 01:05:15,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, nakikita mo dito lahat, Miss Celine, no? Pati na yung doon sa report, nakita mo naman na isa-isa yun, lahat may mga dates at lugar, tama po? 344 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, nakalagay po yung narratives, yung timeline. 345 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:25,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, for the first and second and third quarters of 2023, do you confirm that? 346 01:05:25,980 --> 01:05:29,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nakalagay naman yan lahat, may dates, may activity at may lugar, 347 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:30,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: tama ho? 348 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:35,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, based po sa PIO, are reports na submitted. May mga details po na ganoon. 349 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:53,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, lahat ng mga submissions ng OVP for the first to third quarter, Kasama ito, itong Protective Intelligence Operations Report. Meaning, sa first quarter, yung pinakita ko nga, may sinubmit kanina, di ba? 350 01:05:53,740 --> 01:05:56,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasama po dun sa response nila sa AOM attachment po. 351 01:05:56,660 --> 01:05:57,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, 352 01:05:57,340 --> 01:06:01,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kasama din dun sa response nila yung second quarter na Protective Intelligence Report. 353 01:06:02,740 --> 01:06:04,360 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasama din po dun sa attachment. 354 01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: As well as the third quarter, which is itong binasa nyo. 355 01:06:08,060 --> 01:06:09,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasama din po yan. 356 01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:23,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. But, You know, despite of all of this, sinabi mo, hindi, disallowed pa rin yan kasi walang evidence of success eh. 357 01:06:25,460 --> 01:06:27,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Walang evidence of success eh, no? 358 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:29,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 359 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kindly turn 360 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:35,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: on the mic for the prosecutor. 361 01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:37,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, 362 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the counsel is 363 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:40,360 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: being argumentative with 364 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:40,700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the witness. 365 01:06:40,900 --> 01:06:58,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: No, I'm just asking, I'm asking a question, sabi ko. What is the question again? Ang question ko, despite of all of those reports, no, dinisallow nyo pa rin yung payment of rewards. Kasi sabi ninyo, no proof of success. Argumentative, 366 01:06:58,560 --> 01:06:58,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor. 367 01:06:59,000 --> 01:06:59,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That is the 368 01:06:59,660 --> 01:07:01,600 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: finding of this witness. 369 01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kaya nga po, sinasabi ko, attorney, kaya nga po, kinukonfirm ko. 370 01:07:05,130 --> 01:07:23,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel, counsel, if you please. Witness may answer. Objection is overruled. Witness said that she indeed disallowed and or gave AOMs because there was no proof of success. I even remember her saying, wala naman daw na huli. So, please answer, Celine. 371 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:39,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, kasama po yun sa notice of disallowance ko na na-issue noong March 31, 2026. Hindi po sufficient yung P.I.O.R. and certification na evidence na nagpapakita ng success ng information gathering. 372 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:46,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I get that. But are you aware that one of the purposes of intelligence work is crime prevention? 373 01:07:47,180 --> 01:07:54,120 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, may we know where this is leading because we are not talking about intelligence funds. We're talking about confidential 374 01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:54,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: funds. 375 01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:56,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I confirmed my question, 376 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:56,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Your Honor. 377 01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:57,520 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Counsel, 378 01:07:57,900 --> 01:08:01,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kindly wait for Ma'am Attorney Kapunan to finish with her objection. 379 01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,040 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Are you referring to 380 01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:04,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will 381 01:08:04,940 --> 01:08:05,160 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: rephrase 382 01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: my question. Counsel, 383 01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please address the court, not each 384 01:08:10,020 --> 01:08:36,560 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: other. Your Honor, please. May I object to this line of questioning? In fact, I have I have not stood up because all the questions referred to intelligence funds, Your Honor, when the topic today is confidential funds. And I would like to put that on record, Your Honor, especially this last question where she specifically refers to conclusions as to use of intelligence funds. 385 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:44,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The objection is noted and counsel has already stated that she will rephrase, kindly rephrase, Attorney Christine. 386 01:08:46,010 --> 01:08:59,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ang tanong ko kanina, sabi nyo nga, dinisallow nyo yung rewards kasi nga walang evidence of success noong information gathering. Tama ho? 387 01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:00,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay. 388 01:09:00,820 --> 01:09:06,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kasi nga ho, gusto nyo ng proof na may nahuli. Sinabi nyo yan kahapon sa testimony nyo. 389 01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:13,820 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po. Kasi naipakita po doon yung probable threat. So ang hinihanap na proof of success is kung may na-apprehend po. 390 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:31,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Apprehended. So, apprehensions, no? So, ang tanong ko sa'yo ngayon, alam niyo ba, do you know that one of the purposes of a confidential activity or a surveillance is crime prevention? Alam niyo ba yun? 391 01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang isa, confidential... 392 01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:33,480 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, 393 01:09:33,480 --> 01:09:45,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: alam niyo ba yun? Tanong ko lang ho, alam niyo ba na isa sa mga purposes ng surveillance or ng confidential work ay crime prevention? Alam nyo ba yun? 394 01:09:46,670 --> 01:09:51,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasama po ang crime prevention pero depende rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Yes 395 01:09:51,230 --> 01:09:51,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: or no? 396 01:09:51,850 --> 01:09:53,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Do you agree? 397 01:09:55,070 --> 01:09:56,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kasama po ba yun o hindi? 398 01:09:57,700 --> 01:10:05,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa crime prevention po, kasama po yun sa... Pero depende pa rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Ang gano'n lang, 399 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:11,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kasama po ba siya sa surveillance at paggamit ng confidential fund, crime prevention? Yes or no? 400 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:12,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasama po. 401 01:10:12,820 --> 01:10:26,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat Celine. In fact, meron tayong tatlong klase ng surveillance work. Alam nyo ba yun, Celine? May background kayo sa mga surveillance, intelligence work, confidential work? 402 01:10:27,130 --> 01:10:32,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based lang po sa Joint Circular na for surveillance activities yung confidential fund. 403 01:10:32,510 --> 01:10:42,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So actually yung surveillance may, do you agree with me, may tatlong klase yun. Una, preventive surveillance. Alam nyo ba yun? 404 01:10:42,110 --> 01:10:44,470 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: No basis, Your Honor. Hindi, tinatanong ko 405 01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:44,910 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: lang kung 406 01:10:44,910 --> 01:10:45,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: alam n 407 01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:45,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ba? 408 01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:54,770 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, the surveillance work that this witness testified to is as defined in the circular. So, what 409 01:10:54,770 --> 01:11:12,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: is surveillance work as defined in the circular? 410 01:11:12,530 --> 01:11:13,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ito po yung, kasi diba po yung confidential expenses is used by agencies for surveillance and surveillance activities na makakatulong po na maisagawa ang mandate ng isang agency. 411 01:11:13,630 --> 01:11:14,250 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, nandoon na tayo sa maisagawa 412 01:11:14,250 --> 01:11:28,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung mandate nila. So, tanong ko sa'yo, did the circular limit that to crime prevention? Kasi nga sabi mo, kailangan talaga, ay, to, sorry, to apprehension? Kasi nga sabi mo, dapat may mahuli. Sinabi mo ba yan sa 413 01:11:28,030 --> 01:11:33,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: JC na dapat may mahuli? Ang nakalagay po kasi sa JC under 4.8.5 is proof of 414 01:11:33,970 --> 01:11:34,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: success. Sorry, Your 415 01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:35,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, 416 01:11:35,150 --> 01:11:37,390 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: please. Let the witness answer, Your 417 01:11:37,390 --> 01:11:38,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. Can 418 01:11:38,150 --> 01:11:47,230 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: the counsel be instructed not to stop the witness at mid-sentence, Your Honor? 419 01:11:47,730 --> 01:11:56,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please, can the witness be directed to just answer with yes or no? The counsel has her time to ask clarificatory questions later during the direct, Your 420 01:11:56,750 --> 01:11:56,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. 421 01:11:57,330 --> 01:11:59,910 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Not all questions can be answered by yes or no. 422 01:11:59,910 --> 01:12:01,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I am on cross, Your Honor, please. 423 01:12:01,620 --> 01:12:03,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Never mind 424 01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:10,200 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Even if you're on cross. There are limits to cross-examination. Misleading questions are not allowed on cross. 425 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:11,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: They are allowed 426 01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:23,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please counsels, let's not allow the generational or seeming generational divide increase the tension in the courtroom. Let's keep it a notch lower. 427 01:12:26,510 --> 01:12:30,010 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: preventing myself from giving her a spanking, Your Honor. 428 01:12:30,970 --> 01:12:31,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Um 429 01:12:31,550 --> 01:12:32,430 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: That is what I would 430 01:12:32,430 --> 01:12:35,350 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: have done in the generational divide, 431 01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:35,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 432 01:12:35,870 --> 01:12:40,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You are all members of the bar and you are all counsels for the parties. 433 01:12:42,130 --> 01:12:47,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And we will be treating and looking at each one equally. Ms. Aileen. 434 01:12:48,900 --> 01:12:52,600 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Your Honor, I promise to henceforth behave. 435 01:12:52,940 --> 01:13:01,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, can I please respond quickly lang? I have high respect for Atty. Kapunan. In fact, she's one of my idols. 436 01:13:01,540 --> 01:13:01,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can end there, 437 01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:02,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. 438 01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:03,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Let's end here. You 439 01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:04,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can end there. 440 01:13:05,260 --> 01:13:09,520 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: It might sound like a eulogy, Your Honor. I'm still very much alive. 441 01:13:12,460 --> 01:13:22,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kahapon nga, hindi ko nga siya kinukulit, diba? Kahit may mga questions na doon na leading, hindi naman allowed yun sa direct examination. I respected her. I, I, I, I ano din. 442 01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:24,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can end there counsel if you respect her. 443 01:13:24,980 --> 01:13:25,880 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you. Thank you po. 444 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:39,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Miss Aileen, ayon sa tanong ng counsel, simple lang po naman, nakalagay ba sa Joint Memorandum Circular 2015-01 na kailangan may mahuli para maging successful ang isang 445 01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pagbigay ng reward or information? 446 01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:51,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong nakalagay. Ang nakalagay lang po, proof of success of information gathering and or surveillance. So, 447 01:13:51,100 --> 01:13:55,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: interpretation n'yo po yun na dapat may mahuli para maging successful? 448 01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:08,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ay based po yun sa aking professional judgment and based on the evaluation po ng documents in... na ito is based po sa joint circular. Pero 449 01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi po yung nakalagay sa joint circular na maliwanag. 450 01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:14,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. Nakalagay lang po proof of success. 451 01:14:14,380 --> 01:14:15,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Interpretasyon nyo na po yan. 452 01:14:16,220 --> 01:14:19,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po sa pag-evaluate ko, yun po yung naging basis ko. Okay. 453 01:14:19,860 --> 01:14:21,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed, Attorney Christine. Salamat 454 01:14:21,820 --> 01:14:21,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: po. 455 01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:36,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so sa tingin nyo, dahil gusto nyo dapat may huli, hindi part ng confidential activity yung crime prevention? Ganun ho ba? Hindi ho siya part nun. 456 01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:38,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pakiulit? 457 01:14:38,460 --> 01:14:39,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi 458 01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:48,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ho part yung crime prevention na walang nangyaring masama. Doon sa event na yun, hindi ho yung part ng confidential work or surveillance. 459 01:14:49,650 --> 01:14:52,170 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi pa po siya sufficient as proof of success. 460 01:14:52,350 --> 01:14:58,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi siya sufficient. So, dapat talaga may mangyari na krimen at may mahuli para po may proof of success tayo. 461 01:14:58,170 --> 01:15:07,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi nga po, meron po yung for payment of information and payment of reward. So, yung payment of information, yun kasi yung nakakatulong dun 462 01:15:07,290 --> 01:15:09,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa... Simple 463 01:15:09,070 --> 01:15:28,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: lang naman yung tanong ko, Celine, no? What if walang nangyari na masama dahil nga sa ginawang confidential work? at nag-certify ngayon sila, Chika, na walang nangyari na masama. There was no untoward incident. Ano yan? Is that a proof of success or not? 464 01:15:28,490 --> 01:15:30,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the objection of counsel? The 465 01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:40,510 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: question is speculative, Your Honor. This is not based on what-ifs. This is based on facts and documents submitted, not on the what-ifs of counsel for respondent, Your Honor. 466 01:15:40,530 --> 01:15:40,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not 467 01:15:40,570 --> 01:15:50,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: a what-if, counsel, because it was stated in the report that there was no untoward incident. Actually, that would have been one of the questions of the presiding officer as well, later on. 468 01:15:51,730 --> 01:16:00,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sylene, ibahin natin ang payment for reward at payment for information. Ang payment for reward, yun ang hinahanapan mo ng success. 469 01:16:01,710 --> 01:16:02,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 470 01:16:02,730 --> 01:16:06,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung payment of information, hindi mo hinahanapan ng success yun? 471 01:16:06,530 --> 01:16:07,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 472 01:16:07,410 --> 01:16:07,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama po ba? 473 01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:08,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 474 01:16:09,210 --> 01:16:15,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So yung reward, kaya yung reward ang dinisallow at yung information, hindi mo dinisallow yung bayad na yun, di ba? 475 01:16:15,250 --> 01:16:17,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. Hindi po na dinisallow yung purchase of information. 476 01:16:18,450 --> 01:16:22,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So ang dinisallow mo lang nga ay yung payment of reward, for rewards rather. 477 01:16:23,090 --> 01:16:23,770 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 478 01:16:23,770 --> 01:16:24,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: At yun 479 01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:26,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ang hinahanapan mo ng success, hindi yung information? 480 01:16:26,950 --> 01:16:27,610 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 481 01:16:27,970 --> 01:16:28,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Magkaiba yun? 482 01:16:28,850 --> 01:16:30,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, magkaiba po yun. Okay. 483 01:16:31,020 --> 01:16:32,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, counsel. 484 01:16:32,700 --> 01:16:45,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, dun sa payment of success, bilang requirement n'yo na may dapat nahuli. So, ibig sabihin ba nun dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli? 485 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:47,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po, gaya 486 01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:47,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: nga po nung kaninang 487 01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:48,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: dini-de-referential ko. 488 01:16:50,180 --> 01:16:59,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sagutin nyo lang yung tanong ko. Simple lang naman yun. Kailangan may mahuli. So, ano ba yun? Dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli? 489 01:17:00,590 --> 01:17:29,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun mo, di ba po ang nakalagay dun sa probable threats is may NPA? Ang hinahanap ko po kasing proof of success dun, yun nga po, kung may nahuli ba? Kasi yung pagkakaroon ng untoward incidents, pwede po yun kasing mag-fall sa purchase of information. Dahil sa purchase of information, nagkaroon ng, there were no untoward incidents. Yun po kasi yung parang pagkakaiba nila sa payment of rewards. Okay, so yun yung interpretasyon 490 01:17:29,350 --> 01:18:01,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: mo? So, bawal magbayad ng reward dahil nagkaroon ng tip na may dito, may information na may mga taong may gagawin na masama. Tapos, Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Tapos, napigilan natin kasi nga hindi tayo pumunta sa lugar na yon. Hindi tayo nag-conduct ng event sa petsa na yon. based on confidential information. So walang untoward incident. So bawalo bayaran ng reward yung tao na nagbigay ng information. 491 01:18:01,940 --> 01:18:02,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you 492 01:18:02,420 --> 01:18:03,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: done with the question? 493 01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:04,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I 494 01:18:04,940 --> 01:18:06,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: think right now she is. I 495 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:07,540 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: make an objection, Your Honor. 496 01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:08,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, what's your objection, counsel? Your 497 01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:54,210 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, the counsel is now asking a misleading question. She is mixing payment of rewards and payment for information, Your Honor. The list required by this witness is for payment of rewards. Precisely, payment of information is not disallowed. Now, counsel is saying payment of informa... May we ask her to reform? Is she referring to payment of rewards or payment for information? Because the information here... It's not disallowed. 498 01:18:55,210 --> 01:18:55,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not 499 01:18:55,830 --> 01:19:00,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: disallowed in the AOMs. Again, 500 01:19:00,250 --> 01:19:25,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsels, kindly address the court or the presiding officer and not talk to each other directly. Ms. Aileen, to abbreviate and save on the court's time, Ms. Aileen, kapag kami nagbigay ng impormasyon, naghahanap ng threat, baka may threat sa Vice President, may nagbigay ng impormasyon, walang threat. Ligtas ng Vice President pag nagpunta siya dyan. 501 01:19:28,540 --> 01:19:54,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi magkaklassify yun na pwedeng bigyan ng reward at success. Hindi naman kailangan, diba? Sanay tayo sa reward na nakatakip yung muka, diba? Tinuro kung saan nagtatago yung akusado, tinuro kung saan nagtatago kung sino man. Eto yun, reward. Pero wala bang reward kapag sinabing, okay magpunta dyan, walang problema, wala kayong kailangan nalalahan. Is that information or can that also be reward? 502 01:19:54,980 --> 01:19:56,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Magpo-fall po siya sa information. 503 01:19:57,860 --> 01:20:01,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So saan, kailan lang magiging reward yun kapag may naturo? 504 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi yun yung proof of success. 505 01:20:05,940 --> 01:20:06,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tuloy niyo po. 506 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:13,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun yung proof of success nung information na ibigay kasi may na-apprehend po or yun po, ganun po. 507 01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:19,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yun, ulitin ko po ah, yan ang interpretasyon niyo pero wala po yan sa Joint Memorandum Circular. 508 01:20:19,650 --> 01:20:25,110 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po lang yung hinihinga under item 4.8.5.b. 509 01:20:36,030 --> 01:20:38,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Doon po 510 01:20:38,950 --> 01:20:45,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa mga ibang na-audit ko, ang ina-attach po talaga nila is yung payment of rewards na may mga nahuli po. 511 01:20:50,850 --> 01:20:52,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Merong nahuli o na-apprehend? 512 01:20:52,590 --> 01:20:56,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: May ganun pong mga naka-attach na mga dokumento. At 513 01:20:56,510 --> 01:21:02,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: tulad dun sa iba, kapag walang nahuli o na-apprehend sa reward, ine-AOM o dinidisallow o sinuspend n'yo? 514 01:21:03,010 --> 01:21:05,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hinahanapan po namin ng proof of success, opo. 515 01:21:05,670 --> 01:21:06,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Na may nahuli nga? 516 01:21:07,050 --> 01:21:07,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 517 01:21:07,810 --> 01:21:14,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To prove consistency on your part. But do you have any knowledge na yung mga predecessor mo, yan din yung standard na ginamit? 518 01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:22,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pare-pareho po kami na based sa Joint Circular po ang aming basis ng audit. Pero wala nga dun eh. 519 01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:28,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, interpretation mo, yan, at yan yung interpretation din ng mga nauna sayo sa pagkakaalam mo? 520 01:21:30,170 --> 01:21:31,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa akin po, yun po yung naging interpretation. 521 01:21:32,090 --> 01:21:35,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. You may proceed, Katerina Christine. Salamat po, Your 522 01:21:35,070 --> 01:21:37,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. I will go back the podium. 523 01:21:46,650 --> 01:22:09,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: After nung... After nung na-evaluate nyo po yung mga responses po ng OVP, and including the DepEd, of course, nag-issue po kayo, okay, sa OVP muna tayo, nag-issue po kayo ng notice of suspension. We're referring to the office of the Vice President. 524 01:22:10,990 --> 01:22:13,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, yung sa fourth quarter. Ang nag-issue pa po noon is... 525 01:22:13,730 --> 01:22:20,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, ang tanong ko for the year 2023, first to third quarter, may notice of suspension mo ba na na-issue? Wala 526 01:22:20,610 --> 01:22:21,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po. Okay. 527 01:22:26,820 --> 01:22:32,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, punta tayo dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022. 528 01:22:33,570 --> 01:23:04,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, dun muna tayo. Balik tayo. Kasi hindi naman kayo yung nag-issue ng AOM dun sa fourth quarter po, di ba po? Nag-2022? Hindi po. Oo, sige. So, dun na tayo. sa notice of suspension kasi naabutan nyo na ho yun, di ba po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022, nag-issue kayo ng notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023. Tama po ba? 529 01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:05,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 530 01:23:05,490 --> 01:23:05,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 531 01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:10,480 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero 532 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:21,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa 2023, wala kayong na-issue ng notice of suspension. 533 01:23:22,410 --> 01:23:23,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 534 01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:35,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'm going to direct you to the JC, section 3.2. Ralph, kindly give her a copy of the JC. 535 01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:42,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 3.2, notice of suspension. Nakita nyo na ho? 536 01:23:46,700 --> 01:24:02,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 3.2, nakita nyo ho? 3.20 po. So sinasabi ho dyan, refers to a written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing of the temporary disallowance in audit of CE. CE po ay confidential expenses. 537 01:24:03,060 --> 01:24:03,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 538 01:24:04,220 --> 01:24:22,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And or IE, which appear illegal, improper, irregular, unless satisfactorily explained or justified by the responsible officers or until requirements on matters raised in the course of audit are complied with. Tama po? 539 01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:23,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 540 01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:57,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero in the case of The first and to third quarters, wala ho kayong in-issue na notice of suspension. Tama ho? Wala pong notice of suspension. Therefore, the Vice President, Office of the Vice President was not able to comment on any supposed finding. of the COA. Walang opportunity ho na magbigay ng comment yung Office of the Vice President bago pa ho ma-issue yung Notice of Disallowance. 541 01:24:58,240 --> 01:24:59,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dumiretso po ito sa Notice of Disallowance. 542 01:24:59,820 --> 01:25:13,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Mamaya ho, mamaya ho, tatanungin ho kita. Doon muna tayo sa Notice of Suspension. So walang naibigay na oportunidad para mag-comment ang Office of the Vice President to any Notice of Suspension na hindi naman na-serve. Wala pong Notice of Suspension 543 01:25:13,340 --> 01:25:13,580 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na 544 01:25:13,580 --> 01:25:27,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: na-issue. Thank you. Salamat po. Now, Sinabi mo rin kahapon na you dispensed with the notice of suspension because there was a supposed violation of 6.1.1 of the JC? Yes 545 01:25:27,130 --> 01:25:27,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po, tama po. 546 01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:28,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 547 01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:37,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nasa JC ho ba, no, joint circular, na pag may violation ng 6.1.1, didiretso kayo sa notice of 548 01:25:37,740 --> 01:26:01,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: disallowance? Under po kasi sa 3.19, nakalagay po doon na yung disallowance is written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing and requiring the persons liable to restitute the amount kasi nga po nakalagay dito as a result of illegal, irregular, and improper disbursement or expenditure of such funds. 549 01:26:02,010 --> 01:26:19,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so naiintindihan po kita sa Lynn, no? Ang tanong ko ho... Nasa joint circular ba ho na pag may violation ng 6.1.1 ay didiretso kayo sa notice of disallowance? Nasa JC ho yan? Kasi nga po yung... Sagutin 550 01:26:19,870 --> 01:26:20,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: nyo 551 01:26:20,030 --> 01:26:24,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: lang ho yung tanong ko na andun ho ba o wala? Pwede pong pakialit yung tanong. Sige. 552 01:26:24,370 --> 01:26:24,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nasa 553 01:26:24,730 --> 01:26:38,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: joint circular ho ba na pag may violation ng 6.1.1? dediretso na kayo sa notice of disallowance. Hindi n'yo na kailangan mag-issue ng notice of suspension. Opo kasi irregular na po 554 01:26:38,210 --> 01:26:38,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung... Hindi po. 555 01:26:38,730 --> 01:26:50,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ito po yung tinatanong ko po ay mismo yung provision na yung sinasabi ho ba niya. You can directly issue notice of disallowance without... Your Honor, this is ask and answered. 556 01:26:50,190 --> 01:26:52,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Asked and answered. That is your answer, counsel. 557 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not in the memorandum circular, Sylene, right? 558 01:26:59,410 --> 01:27:06,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron po ang notice of disallowance po kasi ini-issue siya pag irregular na po yung paggamit nung pondo po. 559 01:27:07,150 --> 01:27:13,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama po kayo pero walang nakalagay na pwede kang dumiretso doon kapag ka, kung ano man. 560 01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:17,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, basta nakalagay lang po na ini-issue ang ND pag irregular. 561 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung sa pananaw mo, irregular na. 562 01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:21,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 563 01:27:22,340 --> 01:27:22,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 564 01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:51,190 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat po, Your Honor. Now, ah... Punta tayo dun sa first and second notices of this allowance. I will refer to the first ND. I refer to the first ND. When I say first ND, that refers to the fourth quarter of 2022. 565 01:27:53,020 --> 01:28:18,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, yung second ND naman, that refers to the first to third quarter of 2023. Okay? Para hindi nyo tayo malito. And for the guidance of the Honorable Court. Now, ang sinabi nyo yung basis po sa audit ng ICFA, sa audit nyo po, ng confidential funds ng Vice President at ng DepEd ay yung, syempre, yung Joint Circular, di ba po? 566 01:28:19,180 --> 01:28:19,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Apo. 567 01:28:19,820 --> 01:28:29,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, Pag may-audito ng confidential funds, do you agree with me na dalawa lang naman yung outcomes nun? 568 01:28:31,520 --> 01:29:07,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Allowance or disallowance of a confidential expense, whether full or partial allowance or disallowance? Yung disallowance po. Pwedeng whole or in part. Okay, so tama yun. Pwedeng dalawa yung magiging resulta niya. Allowance or disallowance, in full or in part. Okay. Now, And if a confidential expense is disallowed, it is because, in your own opinion, the agency did not fully comply with the documentary requirements of the Joint Circular. 569 01:29:09,340 --> 01:29:12,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, may hindi siya compliant with the Joint Circular. 570 01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:29,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, sige, salamat to. And as someone who is familiar with the COA rules, ito po ay Masasagot n'yo bilang auditor at bilang familiar po kayo sa COA rules. Sa tingin n'yo ba ang joint circular is a penal law? 571 01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:35,620 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, Mr. Presiding Officer, we object to the question. 572 01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:39,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If she knows, I'm overruled. If she knows, if she doesn't, she may say so. 573 01:29:39,940 --> 01:29:40,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pinal law, 574 01:29:40,300 --> 01:29:40,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: alam n 575 01:29:40,420 --> 01:29:51,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ba yung penal law? Hindi po. I-de-define pa natin yung penal law ay yung batas na It is a law that defines a crime or a felony. Ganon po yung penal law. So sa tingin n 576 01:29:51,580 --> 01:30:02,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo, ito po bang joint circular? Ito po ba ay isang batas na nag-de-define ng krimen? Misleading, Your Honor. At my, 577 01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Witness is not 578 01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:05,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: competent. 579 01:30:05,260 --> 01:30:05,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Even if you're 580 01:30:05,820 --> 01:30:07,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: on cross, misleading is 581 01:30:07,300 --> 01:30:18,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not allowed. Not for that ground counsel. Witness would not be competent to answer that. She's not a lawyer nor a member of the bar, an accountant, and is part of ICFAO. Proceed to your next point, counsel, please. 582 01:30:18,140 --> 01:30:18,700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you, Your Honor. 583 01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:26,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you po, Your Honor. Sige, I will ask her nalang based on her personal knowledge. Now, based po sa circular, meron ho bang provision doon na kulong? 584 01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:38,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pagkakakulong? Meron ho ba? Wala pong nakalagay sa circular. Okay. May provision ho ba doon na fines? Multa? Document, 585 01:30:38,260 --> 01:30:40,300 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, document will speak for itself. 586 01:30:40,860 --> 01:30:41,300 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Objection. 587 01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:44,420 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, 588 01:30:44,580 --> 01:30:47,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: pwede pong mag-refer dito sa... Sige, sure. Oo. Okay lang po. 589 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:59,240 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron po dito sa item 8, yung administrative provisions, penal sanctions. Yun lang po yung masasabi 590 01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:04,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ko na... Okay. Sige. Okay. I'll take that, sir. Pero, Sige, okay. 591 01:31:09,950 --> 01:31:10,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alam n 592 01:31:10,490 --> 01:31:12,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo, kayo po ay part ng COA, di ba po? 593 01:31:13,420 --> 01:31:14,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 594 01:31:14,620 --> 01:31:15,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pamilya ro 595 01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:19,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kayo sa administrative law kasi nasa gobyerno naman kayo. Anong 596 01:31:19,580 --> 01:31:20,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: specific? Hindi po kaka. 597 01:31:21,540 --> 01:31:37,650 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I will just dispense with that question. So, in short, yung joint circular sa pagkakaintindi n'yo ay procedural rules na procedure siya. Kung paano ninyo ikakandak inyong audit of the confidential funds? 598 01:31:37,890 --> 01:31:45,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung Joint Circular po ang guidelines na ginagamit namin sa pag-audit po ng Confidential and Intelligence Funds. Ah, yes. 599 01:31:45,550 --> 01:31:45,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. 600 01:31:45,970 --> 01:32:01,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll take that answer. Now, let's go to the first ND. Can it be flashed on the screen, please? Now, ND dated August 8, 2024, covering the fourth quarter of 2022. 601 01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:31,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We will be giving the witness a copy of the ND. Okay, meron na pala, no? So, in that ND, the amount of 73,287,000 was disallowed in audit out of 125 billion confidential expenses of the OVP for the fourth quarter of 2022. Tama po? 602 01:32:31,860 --> 01:32:33,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay. 603 01:32:34,930 --> 01:32:45,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: At saka sa disallowance po nun, no, kung nakikita nyo sa screen at sa copy n'yo na ending. May tatlong grounds po yun. Agree po kayo? 604 01:32:45,340 --> 01:32:46,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, meron dito po. 605 01:32:47,060 --> 01:33:58,910 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, yung first ground po natin ay non-submission of documents evidencing success of information gathering and or surveillance activities with disallowed amount of 69,787,000. Nakikita n'yo ba yun? Opo. Okay. Yung pangalawa po, Charging payment for tables, chairs, and desktop computers and printers in the total amount of 3,500,000 to confidential fund without specifying that they were intended for confidential operations or activities undertaken by the OVP. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay, salamat. And letter number 3. Non-submission of the revised accomplishment report to the Office of the President, Senate President, and Speaker of the House of Representatives. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, sinabi n'yo kanina na itong fourth quarter na ito ng 2022, meron n'yo itong kalakip na notice of suspension. Tama po? Opo. Okay. So, 606 01:34:00,970 --> 01:35:03,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can we flash the notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023? Okay. And this notice of suspension, nilabas ho siya, in-issue ho siya before ng issuance ng notice of this allowance. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, can we go to item number two? Miss Celine? Can counsel give her a copy? Sige, you can peruse po item number 2 of the notice of suspension. Okay, so item number 2. The DEPs likewise revealed that the OVP incurred the following expenses supported with acknowledgement receipts. Nakikita n'yo po yan? Opo. Okay. So, nakalagay ho dyan, payment of reward, open close parenthesis, various goods, 34,857,000. 607 01:35:05,790 --> 01:35:10,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Tama po? Opo. Okay. Payment of reward, open close parenthesis, medicines, 608 01:35:12,670 --> 01:36:03,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 24,930,000, tama po? Opo. Payment of purchase supplies, 11,813,000, tama po? Opo, tama po. Payment of tables and chairs, 500,000. Opo, tama po. Payment of desktop computers, 3,000,000. Opo, tama po. Okay. Next paragraph po, sinabi n'yo dyan, no? Since the aforementioned expenses pertain to purchases, the same should be supported by either sales invoices or official receipts as evidence of payment of purchases from establishments slash stores. Nakikita nyo po ba? Opo. Okay. 609 01:36:05,900 --> 01:36:27,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ngayon, nakikita nyo ba ako? yung statement na yan dun sa ND, nandun pa ho ba yan or tinanggal ho yan? Yung wala na po ito sa ND. Wala na ho, yeah, sa ND. Okay. So, flash natin ulit yung ND para makita ho ng mga tao. No? So, 610 01:36:30,300 --> 01:36:31,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ayan. 611 01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:34,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 612 01:36:35,530 --> 01:36:43,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, tinanggal nyo na, no? Let's go to the second ND. Okay. Ito na yung first to third quarter ng 2023. 613 01:36:45,330 --> 01:36:45,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 614 01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:53,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pakibigay ho ng kopya yung ating witness. Pakiflash ho ng second ND. 615 01:36:57,620 --> 01:37:16,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The date is March 31, 2026. Okay. So, yung second ND naman ho yun ay nag-disallow ng P375 million na confidential expenses ng Office of the Vice President. Opo, tama. 616 01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:25,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Punta ho tayo dun sa item number 1. 617 01:37:27,540 --> 01:37:29,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Payment of rewards. 618 01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:38,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Totaling 62 million. Okay. So, kita n'yo ho. 62 million? 619 01:37:39,350 --> 01:37:39,690 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 620 01:37:39,810 --> 01:38:03,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. According to ICFAO, sabi n'yo ho, the documents evidencing success of the surveillance activities submitted by the OVP did not comply with item 4.8.5b of the Joint Circular because the documents were not able to specify the particular accomplishments demonstrating success of the information gathering. Nakita n'yo ho yun? 621 01:38:03,690 --> 01:38:04,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 622 01:38:04,310 --> 01:38:22,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, tanong ho, no? Does the JC describe a particular format for this type of documents? Nasa may pro forma ho ba kung paano ho isusulat yung accomplishments demonstrating success of 623 01:38:22,020 --> 01:38:23,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the information gathering? 624 01:38:23,500 --> 01:38:26,300 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang nakalagay lang po dun sa Joint Circular is... 625 01:38:26,300 --> 01:38:28,650 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, ang tanong ko ay may template po ba yung JC? 626 01:38:28,650 --> 01:38:29,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. Wala po. 627 01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:30,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 628 01:38:32,260 --> 01:38:48,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In fact, hindi ho siya part ng annexes po ng JC. Ano po? Wala pong template na ganun kung paano namin isusulat kung ano po yung mga success of information gathering na yun, yung mga detalya na yun. Wala pong ganun. Your Honor, 629 01:38:48,350 --> 01:38:50,130 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: please ask and answer the letter. 630 01:38:50,530 --> 01:38:52,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Move on, counsel. 631 01:38:52,690 --> 01:39:14,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, po. So, sa JC, may nakikita ho ba kayong example? Paano isulat yun? Aside sa wala ho siya sa annexes, sinabi nyo kanina, may nilagay ho ba si JC doon na example na ganito dapat yung pagkasulat ninyo ng certification, evidencing success of the information gathering. Ganito dapat yung pagkasulat. May ganun ho ba sa JC? 632 01:39:14,570 --> 01:39:16,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang nakalagay lang po is documents evidencing success. 633 01:39:16,990 --> 01:39:35,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Okay. Sige, I'll take that answer. So, in disallowing the OVP's... documents evidencing success of its surveillance activities. Of course, you merely relied on your personal opinion or probably your professional opinion, no? Kung ano sa tingin n 634 01:39:35,770 --> 01:39:39,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ang compliant with item 4.8.5 of the JC, tama po? 635 01:39:40,660 --> 01:39:45,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Binase ko po ang evaluation ko based on the Joint Circular and... Yes, 636 01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:48,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: and ikaw yung nag-audit. So, basically, yun po ang inyong professional 637 01:39:48,780 --> 01:39:58,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: judgment. Ano ho? And ito pong pag-audit kasi na to, dumadaan din po to sa review. So, nare-review din po ito ng aking division chief hanggang makarating po sa head of... Yes, 638 01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:10,950 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: yes. In short, lahat kayo ng auditors based din sa judgment ninyo. So, opinion ninyo na itong document na ito ay hindi naayon sa Circular 4.8.5. 639 01:40:10,950 --> 01:40:16,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Not yet, Your Honor, because he said there were reviews that were undertaken. 640 01:40:16,910 --> 01:40:27,090 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: So, lahat kayo, kakasali yung mga superiors mo, ito yung opinion ninyo, na ito ay hindi naayon sa circular 4.8.5. Your Honor, 641 01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:34,950 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: please. I object. Again, counsel uses the word opinion, whereas this witness says, 642 01:40:36,610 --> 01:40:42,870 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: professional judgment, Your Honor. There are two different things. Opinion is not professional judgment. No, Your Honor. 643 01:40:44,410 --> 01:40:55,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Besides, besides, counsels, please. Besides, witness already answered that that is not only her personal judgment and or opinion but also that of her superiors who reviewed Yes, 644 01:40:55,850 --> 01:40:56,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. 645 01:40:56,630 --> 01:41:03,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: her findings resulting in the notice of disallowance. You did not sign the notice of disallowance, correct, Celine? 646 01:41:04,090 --> 01:41:14,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po, pero meron po sa office namin yung second original copy, may countersign po kami. Pero ang ini-issue namin sa agency is yung may signed lang po ng aming... 647 01:41:14,090 --> 01:41:23,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So pataas, presumably, pag pinirmahan niyan ultimately at in-issue, nag-agree sila sa findings mo at yun din ang pananaw nila? Opo. You may proceed, counsel. 648 01:41:23,460 --> 01:41:46,250 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So sinasabi nyo na yun po yung pananaw po ng inyong mga superiors at ng sarili mo din, no? Meron ho bang guidelines yung COA na nagsasabi na ganito dapat yung assessment ninyo pagdating ho dyan sa submission ng documents evidencing success of information gathering? May mga clarificatory issuances ba yung COA nyan? 649 01:41:46,630 --> 01:41:49,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: We base po ang our audit sa Joint Circular. Joint 650 01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:58,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Circular lang talaga. Okay. So, Okay. Punta ho tayo dun sa item number two, Ms. Cylene. 651 01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:23,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, item number two, okay, the ND provides, no, number two, purchases of supplies and provisions of medical slash food aid totaling 199 million presented in table two were supported only by acknowledgement receipts. Okay, nakikita n'yo ba yan? 652 01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:23,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 653 01:42:23,940 --> 01:42:40,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, eto hong ay table two na to, nakalagay, Ang total po niya, purchase of supplies, 117 million, provisions of medical and food aid, 82 million. Yung total po niya, 199 million. Tama po? 654 01:42:40,940 --> 01:42:41,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. And 655 01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:46,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: dinisallow n'yo siya because acknowledgement receipts lang yung supporting documents. 656 01:42:46,660 --> 01:42:49,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dahil nga po, we cannot... Opo. 657 01:42:49,460 --> 01:42:58,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ah, yun lang, eh, ano n'yo muna yung... tanong ko po, doon lang muna kayo sa sumagot. So, acknowledgement receipts lang, so disallowed, tama ko? 658 01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:01,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, because... 659 01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:14,360 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Mamaya na. May tatanong ko din. Wait for the question. Seline, no? Seline. So, sabi dun sa next paragraph, okay, may next paragraph po, tingnan nyo ho. 660 01:43:16,850 --> 01:43:21,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Although the joint circular, nakita nyo yan, 661 01:43:21,060 --> 01:43:21,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 662 01:43:21,420 --> 01:44:04,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Although the joint circular does not prescribe specific with... Does not? prescribed specificity to the documentary evidence of payments to be submitted to substantiate the disbursements made from the CF. This office pursuant to item 6.2.3.7 of the Joint Circular may require other supporting documents that we deem necessary for the proper evaluation of liquidation documents submitted. Nakita niyo po yan? Opo. Okay. Yung next sentence, sinasabi, to ascertain the validity of such purchases of supplies and provision of medical and food aid, we deem it 663 01:44:04,380 --> 01:44:14,880 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: necessary that they be substantiated with appropriate documents such as official receipts or sales invoices. Sinabi po yan? 664 01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:15,360 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 665 01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:28,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so in short, mas... gugustuin n'yo na meron talagang official receipts and invoices na nakalakip doon sa submission ng OVP. To ascertain po 666 01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:32,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na talagang naibili ito ng supplies and medical and food aid. 667 01:44:32,300 --> 01:44:51,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, sige, thank you. Of course, the answer is clear, no? So, okay, no? Pero, if you can recall doon sa ND ng fourth quarter ninyo noong 2022, pwede yun natin i-flashback, i-flash ulit. 668 01:44:53,150 --> 01:45:01,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Tinanggal ho dun yung requirement ng official receipts and invoices. Tama ho ba? Do you recall that? Kasi po yung... Hindi, just answer 669 01:45:01,290 --> 01:45:01,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: my 670 01:45:01,430 --> 01:45:02,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: question. Can, 671 01:45:02,490 --> 01:45:08,510 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, can counsel for respondent show the particular provision, Your Honor? 672 01:45:11,190 --> 01:45:12,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly flash it on the screen. 673 01:45:13,150 --> 01:45:17,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022. No? 674 01:45:18,590 --> 01:45:18,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 675 01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:27,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wala, dun sa ND n'yo, tinanggal na n'yo yung requirement n'yo for sales, invoices, and receipts. Wala din 676 01:45:27,780 --> 01:45:28,760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sa screen, counsel. 677 01:45:29,460 --> 01:45:30,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can you please 678 01:45:30,300 --> 01:45:32,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: confront them? They are 679 01:45:32,420 --> 01:45:33,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: working on it. 680 01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sylene, do you remember? Can you answer? Can you answer, Sylene? 681 01:45:37,970 --> 01:45:41,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po siya doon, pero pwede ko po bang i-clarify yung answer? 682 01:45:41,550 --> 01:45:43,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let the 683 01:45:43,090 --> 01:45:52,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: opposing counsel seek that, but the question being as far as kung nandun o wala, so wala na siya doon sa notice of disallowance? 684 01:45:52,630 --> 01:45:53,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala na po. 685 01:45:53,390 --> 01:46:00,330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero nandun naman siya sa notice of suspension dati, no? Okay. So, okay. 686 01:46:02,850 --> 01:46:06,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, ngayon, Ms. Celine, 687 01:46:08,550 --> 01:46:17,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I understand, baka familiar na ako dito si Opposing Council. Alam niyo ba yung COA circular number 92-385? 688 01:46:19,750 --> 01:46:23,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ayan po ba yung pinakita kay... Ayan po ba yung... 689 01:46:23,790 --> 01:46:24,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, 690 01:46:24,010 --> 01:46:25,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: mapapakita ko namin sa inyo. 691 01:46:26,750 --> 01:46:27,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly show the witness. 692 01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:34,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, hello. 693 01:46:36,120 --> 01:47:07,070 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Before she asked the question, Your Honor, for everybody to refresh their memories, this particular circular was presented by Atty. Towa to Atty. Wamil. And we had manifested that this circular dated 1992 has been superseded, has been amended, has been revoked by the current joint circular of five. government agencies, not only of Juan, Your Honor. 694 01:47:07,330 --> 01:47:16,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I remember that manifestation that it was impliedly repealed although it was not specifically mentioned in the repealing clause of the JMC. Yes. Yes, sir, but 695 01:47:16,710 --> 01:47:31,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I have different questions. Okay, so, pakibasa ho, with the indulgence of the opposing counsel, papabasa lang ho namin yung certain provisions, noong, 696 01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:35,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Fourth paragraph po. 697 01:47:37,900 --> 01:47:38,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 698 01:47:38,100 --> 01:47:38,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please, before 699 01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:40,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: this 700 01:47:40,460 --> 01:47:41,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness answers, 701 01:47:41,720 --> 01:48:00,610 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: May we know this line of questioning because this witness precisely is being presented with a document and required or directed to read provisions or paragraphs of a document that is no longer in force and effect, Your Honor. 702 01:48:00,810 --> 01:48:06,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's give her some leeway, counsel. We will see where she will lead to. 703 01:48:06,470 --> 01:48:10,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, paragraph 4, Your Honor, please. Ka-witness. 704 01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:29,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Whereas, these intelligence and confidential activities by their very nature are highly sensitive and confidential operations. The details of which cannot be divulged without posing a threat to national security or to the success of the mission. 705 01:48:30,220 --> 01:48:33,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can you continue with paragraph 5, Celine? 706 01:48:34,440 --> 01:49:04,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Whereas, as now being required, the submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of disbursement from this fund for rental of safe houses, purchase of mills or supplies, and other expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations, endanger the lives and safety of the agent, and employees of the government agencies and result to a failure of the mission. 707 01:49:04,480 --> 01:49:09,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, paragraph 6, sorry, medyo magbabasakan. Paragraph 708 01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:21,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: 6, Whereas, in many instances, is impractical and sometimes impossible to obtain such receipts, bills, or commercial invoices during intelligence operations. Ah, 709 01:49:21,780 --> 01:49:24,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: last na ho, no? Paragraph 7. Whereas, by 710 01:49:24,940 --> 01:49:34,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: its very nature, the use of intelligence and or confidential funds requires an approach allowing more flexibility in intelligence operations. 711 01:49:34,580 --> 01:49:50,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, sinabi ho ng good counsel natin, no, na this is 1992 circular, no? Outdated na yan. Pero, agree ho kayo sa sinasabi niya na confidential operations are highly sensitive? 712 01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:53,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Totoo 713 01:49:53,280 --> 01:49:55,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: pa naman ho yun hanggang ngayon, di ba po? Opo, 714 01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:55,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: tama po. 715 01:49:55,960 --> 01:50:05,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: At ayon sa circular, may mga detalya na hindi natin pwedeng i-disclose dahil dito nakasalalay yung success ng ating confidential operations. 716 01:50:07,100 --> 01:50:08,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: based po sa document na ito. 717 01:50:08,740 --> 01:50:14,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, pero as of today, totoo pa naman ho yun? Applicable ho yun? Sa tingin nyo ho? 718 01:50:15,300 --> 01:50:16,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo sa intelligence. 719 01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:20,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, okay. And confidential activities also. 720 01:50:20,580 --> 01:50:23,360 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, the answer was opo sa intelligence. 721 01:50:23,900 --> 01:50:30,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, I'm asking her about confidential operations. Applicable din ho yan pagdating sa mga confidential operations? 722 01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:33,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, pwede din po. Okay, 723 01:50:33,320 --> 01:51:00,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: salamat. Now, based on those statements na binasa ho ninyo, nire-recognize ho ng COA, based lang ho dyan sa statement na yan, no, na yung submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of certain expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations. Based lang ho dito sa binasa nyo. 724 01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:02,240 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based po dito sa circular na ito. 725 01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:02,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 726 01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:13,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, sa tingin n'yo yung mga konsepto na na-introduce po ng circular na ito ay applicable pa po sa panahon ito? 727 01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:14,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Objection, Your Honor. 728 01:51:15,180 --> 01:51:16,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the objection? 729 01:51:17,500 --> 01:51:18,560 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please. 730 01:51:21,280 --> 01:52:24,880 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: This council is trying to elicit from this witness an opinion that indirectly runs counter to the express provision. in the Joint Circular of 2015, Your Honor, that all of these, everything she has said, all the paragraphs that she has read, precisely, Your Honor, if I can, I will state this later, Your Honor, but precisely, Your Honor, the Joint Circular, if we are to read the rationale for the Joint Circular, was precisely in recognition of the fact that this circular and several other circulars of intelligence and confidential government agencies are inaccurate and inconsistent with each other. Thus, the rationale of Joint Circular 2015 was precisely to make it one whole Joint Circular of five. agencies on intelligence and confidential funds. I 731 01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:56,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: understand the point of Atty. Capunan. However, the question is quite simple for the witness. Although this may have indeed been impliedly repealed, again, impliedly repealed by the Joint Memorandum Circular, are the concepts stated herein still applicable today and are you still using it? I'll abbreviate the proceedings. Ms. Aileen, yung... Kawalan ba ng resibo na sinasabing okay lang sa circular na to? Okay pa rin ba hanggang ngayon sa Joint Memorandum Circular o hindi na? 732 01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:15,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under po kasi sa Joint Memorandum Circular, under 6.2.3.7, we can request po other documents necessary for the proper evaluation po nung under 6.2.7 po. Other documents necessary. hindi audit po. 733 01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:24,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can request for other documents, but the Joint Circular does not say that you should demand and ask for receipts. Wala dun yan. 734 01:53:24,780 --> 01:54:10,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, just a quick manifestation, Your Honor. Your Honor, can the counsel for the prosecutors be reminded not to make... an argument, not to argue for the witness, Your Honor, because she's citing circular, she's citing laws, which is not allowed during cross-examination, and that is indirectly teaching her witness how to answer my question. So, please, Your Honor, can the court direct... counsel, not to make these arguments in court because these are not allowed under the rules of court, Your Honor. This is not a place where we are, no, this is not the time where we are supposed to expel or to state our oral arguments in this case. So, Your Honor, 735 01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:21,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this is part of the seeming generational divide tension that the court is trying to avoid. So let's leave it at that, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. I 736 01:54:21,710 --> 01:54:24,310 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: was just going to say that I will accept. 737 01:54:24,650 --> 01:54:25,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's leave 738 01:54:25,270 --> 01:54:25,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it at that. I 739 01:54:25,790 --> 01:54:25,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: accept 740 01:54:25,810 --> 01:54:29,330 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: what she said, Your Honor. I will refrain from lecturing her, Your Honor. 741 01:54:30,710 --> 01:54:32,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, please. That's all 742 01:54:32,550 --> 01:54:33,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: out 743 01:54:33,010 --> 01:54:33,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: of order, 744 01:54:33,530 --> 01:54:33,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. 745 01:54:33,650 --> 01:54:34,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, please. 746 01:54:37,320 --> 01:54:39,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed, Attorney Christine. 747 01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:41,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you, Your Honor. 748 01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:46,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I will go back to the podium. 749 01:54:54,810 --> 01:55:09,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, in relation to the question that you were asked by the chair, earlier you said that hindi naman required ng circular yung mga invoices and receipts, tama ko? Ang requirement po is other documents, 750 01:55:10,150 --> 01:55:11,990 Cylene May L. Del Campo: deems necessary. Yes, 751 01:55:12,010 --> 01:55:17,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: but answer my question, hindi required yung invoices and receipts, sinabi mo yun kanina? 752 01:55:17,810 --> 01:55:20,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, hindi po siya naka-enumerate doon. 753 01:55:20,130 --> 01:55:20,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In fact, 754 01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:56,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Item 4.12 ng JC. Kung may copy ka ho dyan, pakitingin. Item 4.12, please. It says that disbursements from CF shall be supported with documentary evidence of payment, among others, which shall be submitted to the ICFAO in a sealed envelope signed by SDO. So sinasabi dito, documentary evidence of payment. Tama po? 755 01:55:56,780 --> 01:55:57,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 756 01:55:57,860 --> 01:56:01,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Without specifying the kind of document that the agency should 757 01:56:01,960 --> 01:56:07,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: submit. Tama? Opo, wala siyang in-specify. Ang nakalagay lang po, documents evidencing payment. 758 01:56:07,980 --> 01:56:08,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, 759 01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:10,180 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung 760 01:56:13,790 --> 01:56:18,910 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: intention ho ng circular ay i-require ho yung invoices and receipts. 761 01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:25,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Bakit sa tingin nyo hindi nakalagay ho sa circular yun? Your Honor, please, we object 762 01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:26,900 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: to the question. 763 01:56:27,660 --> 01:56:32,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the base of the objection, counsel? Argumentative. Speculative. Sustained. 764 01:56:32,700 --> 01:56:34,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Sige po. For 765 01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:35,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: being argumentative. Yes, 766 01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:38,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. I will move on. Okay. 767 01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:41,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Silin. 768 01:56:43,050 --> 01:56:47,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Silin pala. Sorry. Kasi silin d'yon. Silin. Okay. Silin, no? 769 01:56:49,820 --> 01:56:54,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The circular involves surveillance activities. Tama? 770 01:56:55,810 --> 01:56:56,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Confidential 771 01:56:56,370 --> 01:56:57,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: and intelligence activities. 772 01:56:57,830 --> 01:57:06,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, surveillance activities. Familiar ho ba kayo sa mga surveillance activities? 773 01:57:06,070 --> 01:57:13,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Excuse me, Your Honor, ask and answer it earlier. 774 01:57:13,450 --> 01:57:14,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi ho, tinatanong ko, Your Honor, kung familiar ho sila kung ano ang mga surveillance activities. Witness 775 01:57:14,010 --> 01:57:22,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may answer. She evaluated those earlier and identified some of the things read by counsel as surveillance. So, she is competent to answer. Cylene, please answer the question. 776 01:57:23,460 --> 01:57:26,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede po ulit pa kay ulit yung tanong po? 777 01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:34,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pamilyar po ba kayo sa mga surveillance operations? Mga klase, uri, I believe, ng surveillance operations? 778 01:57:35,260 --> 01:57:39,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: May konti po akong alam sa surveillance activities po. Okay. 779 01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:44,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Sige, I'll just move on to another point, Your Honor. So, okay. 780 01:57:46,810 --> 01:57:54,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Natapos na tayo dun sa invoices and receipts, no? Kayo ho ay certified public accountant to, Ms. Celine? Sylene? 781 01:57:55,110 --> 01:57:55,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 782 01:57:55,610 --> 01:57:59,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, familiar po kayo sa tax code? National Internal 783 01:57:59,570 --> 01:58:03,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Revenue Code? Hindi po ako nag-practice nang sa bandang tax. 784 01:58:03,190 --> 01:58:07,650 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero pinag-aralan po natin yan sa college, sa accountancy, o. 785 01:58:07,650 --> 01:58:08,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Asama po. 786 01:58:09,130 --> 01:58:36,010 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, we object to this line of questioning already. First, she asks this witness earlier if this witness is familiar with criminal laws. objection from prosecution sustained by the presiding officer. Now she's asking this witness, are you familiar with the tax code, Your Honor? We will make the same objection, Your Honor, beyond the scope of direct... 787 01:58:36,720 --> 01:58:41,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll note the objection. We'll see where she takes this counsel. We'll give her some leeway if she's on cross. 788 01:58:42,020 --> 01:58:49,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. So, yung tax code doon, nasa kurikulumo natin yan noong college po, di ba po? Noong nagti-take up tayo ng accountancy. 789 01:58:49,780 --> 01:58:51,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, taxation and law. 790 01:58:51,100 --> 01:58:57,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, salamat po. Now, familiar ho kayo sa section 34 ho ng tax code? 791 01:58:57,500 --> 01:59:00,560 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sige. Hindi ko na po maalala. 792 01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:05,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ipa-flash ho natin yan sa screen, please. Section 34. 793 01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:10,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can counsel just proceed to the question, Your Honor? That's it. That's it, Your Honor. 794 01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:47,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That's section 34. Ika-flash yun natin, no? Section 34B says, Substantiation requirements. No deduction from gross income shall be allowed under subsection A hereof unless the taxpayer shall substantiate with sufficient evidence. such as official receipts or other adequate records, the amount of the expense being deducted, and the direct connection or relation of the expense being deducted to the development, management, operation, and or conduct of trade, business, or profession of the taxpayer. Your Honor, please. 795 01:59:48,320 --> 02:00:03,540 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Counsel? We will object already to this line of questioning. It is totally immaterial. Irrelevant and beyond the scope. of cross-examination. There was no question yet, Your Honor. 796 02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:09,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's wait for the question, counsel. I think I know where counsel is leading to. Thank 797 02:00:09,520 --> 02:00:20,640 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you, Your Honor. Attorney Christine, go to your question. So, Section 34B refers to the deductibility of expenses under the tax code. If you can recall that. 798 02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:25,920 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, okay. Now we make our objection, Your Honor. What's your... Is that your question? 799 02:00:26,140 --> 02:00:26,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wala pa. 800 02:00:26,660 --> 02:00:29,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think she's laying the basis for a question, counsel. 801 02:00:29,200 --> 02:00:29,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wala pa ho. I'm laying 802 02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:40,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the basis ho. Okay. So... What is the question? In fact, Section 34B, yung binasa natin... 803 02:00:40,760 --> 02:00:42,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Patience is a virtue, counsel. 804 02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:57,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In fact, Section 34B of the NIRC considers other adequate records to support the deductibility of expenses, di ba ho? Tingnan nyo kung titignan nyo lang o base lang o sa tax code. 805 02:00:57,540 --> 02:00:59,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is that already the question? 806 02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:02,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As an answered counsel, move to your point. 807 02:01:02,440 --> 02:01:07,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: What is? Yes. Ano ho yung sagot? Paulit po yung tanong. 808 02:01:07,500 --> 02:01:08,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. Based 809 02:01:08,140 --> 02:01:12,360 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po dyan sa sinayto natin na provision ng tax code. 810 02:01:12,360 --> 02:01:24,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Section 34B considers adequate records as sufficient support for the deductibility of expenses or business expenses under the tax code. 811 02:01:24,460 --> 02:01:25,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Base po dyan. 812 02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:29,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Oh, base po dyan. Okay. Document is the best evidence, Your Honor. 813 02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:32,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel. Let her proceed, counsel. Thank 814 02:01:32,820 --> 02:01:44,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you, Your Honor. It does not require an invoice. Nakalagay ho dyan, invoice. Dapat mag-submit po tayo ng invoice. Again. May I object now? Is that a question already 815 02:01:44,060 --> 02:01:44,400 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: or 816 02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:46,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: should I wait for your question? Yes, that's 817 02:01:46,440 --> 02:01:55,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: a question, Your Honor. Nakalagay mo ba dyan na requirement na dapat may invoice para magiging deductible yung expense? Nakalagay po as 818 02:01:55,980 --> 02:01:56,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: official. 819 02:01:56,460 --> 02:01:57,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 820 02:01:57,000 --> 02:01:58,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. Attorney 821 02:01:58,100 --> 02:01:59,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lorna, yes. What is your objection? 822 02:02:00,140 --> 02:02:33,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: This is immaterial, irrelevant, beyond the scope. This is the National Internal Revenue Code for taxpayers. What is... Relevant here is the payment of taxes what is allowed as deductions. What are documents allowed to substantiate findings here? It refers to gross income, Your Honor. What has gross income have to do with confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd? Since 823 02:02:33,030 --> 02:02:54,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it's 1155, let the court, let the presiding officer go to the point. I think, Atty. Christine is going towards. Atty. Celine, Nasa tax code, para sa anumang dahilan o purpose ay pwede ka mag-present ng adequate records maliban sa resibo. Alam niyo yan bilang accountant? 824 02:02:54,990 --> 02:02:55,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Apo. 825 02:02:56,330 --> 02:03:09,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa trabaho niyo po ba ngayon sa COA sa paghahanap ayon sa pag-cite niyo ng provision kanina ng iba pang dokumento bilang suporta sa paggastos ng confidential fund? Tinignan n 826 02:03:09,550 --> 02:03:16,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'yo ba maliban sa official receipt, adequate records na ginagamit din naman sa NIRC kung applicable yan sa COA? 827 02:03:18,350 --> 02:03:20,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pakialit yung tanong. 828 02:03:20,330 --> 02:03:30,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Applicable din ba ang adequate records maliban sa resibo sa COA at hindi lamang dito sa NIRC bilang accountant? Kaya nga siguro required na accountant kayong lahat o abogado, hindi ba? 829 02:03:31,950 --> 02:03:32,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 830 02:03:32,730 --> 02:03:34,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, puwedeng adequate records? 831 02:03:34,990 --> 02:03:39,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, na ma-assertain namin kung talagang nagamit ito for confidential expenses. 832 02:03:39,610 --> 02:03:54,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May mga 833 02:03:54,750 --> 02:04:02,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sinasubmit po sila na gaya po ng acknowledgement receipt at saka po yung mga reimbursement expense receipts po. 834 02:04:05,470 --> 02:04:07,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: para sa inyo, maliban sa official receipt. 835 02:04:08,110 --> 02:04:10,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasama na rin po yung official receipt. Pwede bang 836 02:04:10,350 --> 02:04:14,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: gamitin ng other records, adequate records, sa pagbili ng bagay-bagay? 837 02:04:16,140 --> 02:04:17,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, pwede po. 838 02:04:17,500 --> 02:04:24,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, tables, chairs, pwedeng adequate records at hindi kailangan official receipt sa lahat ng panon, depende sa kalagayan at sitwasyon. 839 02:04:24,780 --> 02:04:35,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pero po kasi, it di... Ito po ay nagpapertain sa purchases so mas sufficient po sa amin kung maipapakita yung sales invoice at official receipts po. 840 02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:45,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero possible bang may adequate records yun o wala? Possible bang may iba pang records sa karanasan nyo sa ibang agencies na gumagamit ng intelligence at confidential funds? 841 02:04:45,730 --> 02:04:50,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Receivo lang po talaga para mapatunayan namin na talagang binili yun for tables and chairs. 842 02:04:50,470 --> 02:04:50,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pag 843 02:04:50,590 --> 02:04:51,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: -purchase. Opo. 844 02:04:51,890 --> 02:04:54,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi pag-reward, hindi pag-information. 845 02:04:54,710 --> 02:04:57,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, pwede po yung acknowledgement receipts dun. 846 02:04:57,330 --> 02:05:00,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At yun ang papasok sa adequate records? 847 02:05:00,550 --> 02:05:01,710 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay. 848 02:05:02,610 --> 02:05:03,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? Yes, 849 02:05:03,790 --> 02:05:04,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. I'll move on. You 850 02:05:04,930 --> 02:05:06,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: want to move on to the next point? Yes, yes po. 851 02:05:06,650 --> 02:05:07,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 852 02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:24,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, napag-usapan nun natin yung ORs and sales invoices po, di ba po? Opo. As a CPA, syempre as COA auditor, familiar mo kayo kung ano yung mga contents nun? Doon sa ORs and invoices, familiar ho kayo ano yung mga details na nandun, di ba po? 853 02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:25,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay. 854 02:05:25,820 --> 02:05:32,220 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So nakalagay doon sa ORs and invoices, halos pare-pareho lang ho yan, yung date of transaction, di ba ho? 855 02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:33,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 856 02:05:33,500 --> 02:05:45,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Yung seller's details, no? Nakalagay doon yung registered name, registered business address, and the tax identification of the seller. Nakalagay ho doon, di ba po? 857 02:05:45,500 --> 02:05:46,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay. 858 02:05:47,080 --> 02:05:56,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nakalagay din ho doon yung description ng goods. Di ba po? Or in case of services, kung ano ho yung nature ng services provided? Nakalagay ho doon? 859 02:05:56,280 --> 02:05:56,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 860 02:05:56,860 --> 02:06:23,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, nakalagay din ho doon yung buyer's information, no? Yung pangalan ng buyer or ng client, yung address, at saka yung tax identification number ng client. Tama ho? Opo. Okay. Now, let's apply this. invoice these details that are required in an invoice or OR in an actual confidential transaction. 861 02:06:25,150 --> 02:06:25,870 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: We 862 02:06:25,870 --> 02:07:13,750 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: object to this line of questioning, Your Honor. We are now going to the realm of the hypothetical. She has presented a hypothetical OR knowing that there is zero, no OR, not a single OR. was submitted to the office of the COA ICPAO. Now she's talking about a sample, a sample hypothetical OR. What is the line? Where are we going here, Your Honor? Because if we are going to this line of hypotheticals, Your Honor, we might not finish today. We might finish next week, August 14, which is what they want probably, Your Honor. 863 02:07:15,870 --> 02:07:19,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will give the attorney Christine some leeway on this. Let's see where she will go. 864 02:07:19,870 --> 02:07:51,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. Okay, so ipagpalagay na ho natin yung transaction rental of safe house. Okay. So, assuming nag-require ho kayo ikfaw ng invoice or ng OR, no? So, ano ho ba yung, kasi di ba sabi nyo dito sa findings ninyo, no, na kailangan natin ng ORs at an invoice. Tapos, naalala nyo ho, nilagay nyo dito na pwede naman hong may mga information na dapat tanggalin. Di ba po? 865 02:07:52,920 --> 02:07:54,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nakalagay ho dun sa ND. 866 02:07:56,350 --> 02:08:01,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung hinihingan po namin ng additional documents gaya ng OR and the... 867 02:08:01,630 --> 02:08:04,970 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, hindi ho. I'll direct you to the 868 02:08:04,970 --> 02:08:05,250 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ND. 869 02:08:06,170 --> 02:08:07,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which ND, counsel? 870 02:08:07,570 --> 02:08:10,810 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The 2nd ND, Your Honor. The August 871 02:08:10,810 --> 02:08:11,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 8th ND. 872 02:08:11,570 --> 02:08:28,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes po, yes po. Babasahin po yung portion na related po dito. Number 2, yung second paragraph po, pakitingin na lang ho, Miss Celine. Number 2, Celine, no? Okay. 873 02:08:31,200 --> 02:08:35,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung though, itong under item number 2, 874 02:08:36,110 --> 02:08:38,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung 875 02:08:38,410 --> 02:08:51,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa second paragraph, diba may table doon? Nasusundan nyo yung though this office, pakireflect na lang ho sa taas, no? sa overhead. Though this office recognizes, nakikita n 876 02:08:51,100 --> 02:08:51,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ba ho yan? 877 02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:53,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 878 02:08:54,030 --> 02:09:23,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. That by the very nature of the CF, where identities of the safe, where identities of those involved, that is, the informants for whom the supplies were used, nasusundan n'yo, owners of safe houses or owners of rented vehicles used for confidential activities and the details which can be disclosed evidencing validity should be submitted to warrant reasonable and adequate substantiation. 879 02:09:32,630 --> 02:10:24,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kaya ulit-ulit, sorry. Though this office recognizes that by the very nature of the CF were identities of those involved, that is, the informants for whom supplies were used, owners of safe houses or owners of rented vehicles used for confidential activities, and the very details of the confidential activities are to be reasonably safeguarded. Nakikita nyo ba ho yan? Opo. Oo. reasonably safeguarded, other details, sinabi n'yo dito, other details which can be disclosed, evidencing the validity, should be submitted to warrant reasonable and adequate substantiation of the claimed confidential expenses in relation to item 4.12 of the Joint Circular. Your Honor, please. I have not yet propounded my 880 02:10:24,380 --> 02:10:24,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question, Your Honor. 881 02:10:24,980 --> 02:10:26,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There is no question yet, counsel. No, Your Honor, 882 02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:38,110 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: this does not relate to the question. This relates to the document being flashed. The question is, this is not an August 8th ND. I was 883 02:10:38,110 --> 02:10:40,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: saying, Your Honor, this was the 2nd ND. 884 02:10:40,390 --> 02:10:42,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sorry, this is the 2nd 885 02:10:42,430 --> 02:10:42,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ND. 886 02:10:43,410 --> 02:10:44,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is the March 31. 887 02:10:45,110 --> 02:10:54,250 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, it's the March 31, Your Honor. But the witness... So it is misleading, Your Honor. She said August 8, ND. No, I said 2nd ND. I did not say August. 888 02:10:54,490 --> 02:10:54,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Are 889 02:10:54,950 --> 02:10:57,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you referring to the March 31, 2026? 890 02:10:57,590 --> 02:10:57,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, 891 02:10:58,070 --> 02:10:59,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. I'm referring to 892 02:10:59,410 --> 02:10:59,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the 893 02:10:59,490 --> 02:11:06,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: March 31, 2026 ND. Yes po, yun sa ND dated March 31, 2020. 894 02:11:06,560 --> 02:11:06,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, she 895 02:11:06,660 --> 02:11:11,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: knows what she was looking at, counsel. It was the presiding officer's mistake when I referred to it as August 8. 896 02:11:11,320 --> 02:11:53,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. So, nakalagay ho dyan, no? Okay. So, balik ho tayo dun sa requirement ng invoice at OR, no? Assuming nga, yun, rent of safe house ho yun, no? So, base dun sa mga items or sa mga information na sinabi nyo kanina, Ano ba yung pwedeng tanggalin natin doon sa invoice? Hindi, tatanungin ko kita. Isa-isahin ko ito. Ano yung pwedeng tatanggalin natin doon sa invoice? Blessors registered name. Example, ABC Apartments. Kailangan namin mag-submit ng invoice. Mag-submit kami ng invoice. Wait lang, Your Honor. 897 02:11:53,900 --> 02:11:56,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mag-submit 898 02:11:56,220 --> 02:12:18,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kami ng invoice. Sabi nyo. You recognize that there are information that are sensitive. Tama ho ba? So, pag nag-submit to kami ng invoice involving rental of a safe house, ano ho ba yung pwede naming tanggalin? Okay, lessor's registered name, ABC Apartments, kunyari, pwedeng tanggalin? Pwede po bang may ika 899 02:12:18,270 --> 02:12:22,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: -clarify lang po ako? Atty. Sailin, before you answer, yes, Atty. Kapunan, you were saying, Your Honor, 900 02:12:23,070 --> 02:12:29,190 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: this line of questioning already is, number one, argumentative, number two, hypothetical, Your Honor. 901 02:12:29,510 --> 02:12:29,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, 902 02:12:30,110 --> 02:12:31,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: because this 903 02:12:31,410 --> 02:12:32,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness 904 02:12:32,110 --> 02:12:33,230 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: has testified. 905 02:12:34,090 --> 02:12:56,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And I think some members of the court would also like to find out what is acceptable and what is not, given the confidential nature of this. I think even one of the senator-judges will be pursuing this point later, so it might abbreviate the proceedings if you are able to answer now. Ano yung katanggap-tanggap na laman ng invoice, Sylene, kung dapat itago na confidential ang ibang mga impormasyon? 906 02:12:57,390 --> 02:13:00,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede po bang i-explain ko lang po muna yung nasa ND? 907 02:13:02,230 --> 02:13:03,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, sige po. 908 02:13:03,780 --> 02:13:17,300 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po ang hinihingan lang po namin ng official receipt and invoice, yung lang pong expense pertaining to purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid, hindi po nabanggit yung sa rental ng safe houses. 909 02:13:17,660 --> 02:13:18,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So sa rental, hindi kailangan? 910 02:13:19,020 --> 02:13:27,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. Ang hinihingan lang po namin ng official receipts at ng sales invoice is yung purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid. 911 02:13:27,880 --> 02:13:29,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Naginamit sa pagbigay ng reward. 912 02:13:30,490 --> 02:13:35,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po sa third quarter, hindi na siya reward. Naka-reflect na siya as supplies. Ah, 913 02:13:35,130 --> 02:13:35,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: as supply na? 914 02:13:35,950 --> 02:13:41,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kaya doon po. Pero yung sa rental of safe house, in-accept naman yung acknowledgement receipt. 915 02:13:42,230 --> 02:13:46,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So sa pananaw mo, hindi kailangan maging confidential yung binilan ng supplies? 916 02:13:47,130 --> 02:14:03,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po ang confidential, di ba po pag dumibili tayo ng supplies, ng food, ng medicine, standard procedure po yung merong resibo. na matatanggap from the establishment kung saan po natin binili itong mga supplies, food, and medicine. At 917 02:14:03,950 --> 02:14:04,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sa 918 02:14:04,110 --> 02:14:04,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: pananong mo nga, 919 02:14:04,730 --> 02:14:06,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi dapat confidential yung binilhan? 920 02:14:07,250 --> 02:14:11,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung pinagbilhan po kasi yung sa paggagamitan yung confidential expenses. 921 02:14:11,950 --> 02:14:13,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. You may proceed, counsel. 922 02:14:13,650 --> 02:14:29,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, sige, ibahina na po natin, gawin natin yung supplies. Alimbawa, pagkain. Supplier na pagkain. Okay. Ano yung pwedeng tanggalin doon? Let's say, the supplier's name, let's say, ABC Catering, puwedeng tanggalin? 923 02:14:32,680 --> 02:14:45,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Opo. Okay, tanggalin natin. Yung location, yung business address po ni ABC Catering, let's say, ground floor, Multinational Bank Corporation Center, 6805, 924 02:14:45,980 --> 02:14:48,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ayala Avenue, Makati City, puwedeng tanggalin? 925 02:14:48,140 --> 02:14:55,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi naman po confidential yung mismong establishment na nagkwan noon eh. Yung ang pinakamit-punit po 926 02:14:55,040 --> 02:15:01,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: dito, pinaggamitan, and dun po sa resibo na yun, hindi naman po siya confidential information. 927 02:15:01,930 --> 02:15:02,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Just answer the 928 02:15:02,930 --> 02:15:11,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: question, no? Ask and answer, Your Honor. Pwedeng hindi tanggalan yung address ng supplier ng pagkain. Ask and 929 02:15:11,210 --> 02:15:13,190 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: answer, Your Honor. Not 930 02:15:13,190 --> 02:15:15,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yet, Your Honor. Not yet. Counsel, ask and 931 02:15:15,590 --> 02:15:15,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer. 932 02:15:16,090 --> 02:15:17,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ask and answer. 933 02:15:18,130 --> 02:15:45,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, please. She said that... When it pertains to the purchase of supplies, food, medicines, shares, if at all computers, the name of the entity where they purchased it is not confidential. Pero kung saan ginamit yun, kung sinong pinagbigyan, sinong pinakain, saan pinakain, yun yung confidential. Tama ba, Celine? 934 02:15:45,650 --> 02:15:46,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 935 02:15:47,070 --> 02:15:56,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, yung invoice o resibo ng pagkain, medical supplies, na supplies, kailangan may resibo. Yan ang interpretasyon mo noong Joint Circular. 936 02:15:56,570 --> 02:16:02,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, para ma-assertin namin na talagang ginamit yun for purchases of supplies, food, and medicines po. 937 02:16:02,650 --> 02:16:15,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, sa bagay nito, ulitin ko, sa pananaw mo, sa interpretasyon mo, sa ginamit mong pag-audit, kapag ka supplies, hindi ka tatanggap ng other adequate document, resibo talaga hahanapin mo. 938 02:16:15,910 --> 02:16:19,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, para mapatunayan na pinambili po talaga ito noong supplies. 939 02:16:19,950 --> 02:16:25,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And this is the same standard you're applying to other government agencies, not only the OVP and the DepEd. 940 02:16:25,710 --> 02:16:26,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 941 02:16:27,970 --> 02:16:46,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so sinabi pagkain ho yung example natin, no? So, sino ho ba dapat ang may alam kung confidential dapat ang information? Si COA ho ba o si agency? Who is in a better position to know whether information is confidential? 942 02:16:49,260 --> 02:16:51,240 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pakiulit yung tanong? Okay. 943 02:16:52,530 --> 02:17:24,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Question is vague, Your Honor. Sige, okay. Example, pagkain, no? Pagkain, okay. Kung kami ho, agency, sa tingin namin, dapat confidential yung supplier namin kasi baka lasunin, baka may matuntun, no? Matuntun-tun yung supplier namin. Tapos tinanggal namin yung address. Tinanggal namin yung address, tinanggal namin yung ibang details doon, sinabit namin sa COA, no? Acceptable pa rin ho ba sa COA yun? Hindi naman po confidential yung mismong... Sa inyo ho, pero 944 02:17:24,660 --> 02:17:25,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: kung sa... 945 02:17:25,720 --> 02:17:27,900 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Ask and answered, Your Honor. Okay. 946 02:17:28,100 --> 02:17:29,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi naman confidential yun. 947 02:17:29,840 --> 02:17:32,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ask and answered. Don't argue with the Witness Council. Okay, 948 02:17:32,700 --> 02:17:41,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yes, Your Honor. So sa tingin nyo, hindi confidential yun, pero maaaring sa agency, confidential ho yun. Argumentative, 949 02:17:41,120 --> 02:17:44,100 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor. Ask and answered. It is not confidential. 950 02:17:45,380 --> 02:17:47,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on to the next point, counsel. Your Honor, I'm 951 02:17:47,240 --> 02:17:48,100 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: asking for possibility, 952 02:17:48,440 --> 02:17:48,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 953 02:17:48,780 --> 02:17:49,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There is 954 02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:50,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: already ruling from the presiding officer. 955 02:17:50,900 --> 02:17:51,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move to the next point, counsel. 956 02:17:52,400 --> 02:18:03,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so in short, kayo ho yung nagde-decide ngayon kung ano ho yung confidential na information. At hindi. Kasi sinabi nyo ho, sa tingin nyo, hindi naman siya confidential. Misleading, 957 02:18:03,140 --> 02:18:03,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Your Honor. 958 02:18:03,700 --> 02:18:04,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer? 959 02:18:05,020 --> 02:18:09,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes. Kasi nga po yung pinaggamitan, hindi naman po yung nag-provide. 960 02:18:10,000 --> 02:18:18,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so okay lang na ma-expose yung supplier sa instance na yun, no? Okay lang na malagay yung address ng ABC. Your Honor, please, again, 961 02:18:18,720 --> 02:18:19,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: this is 962 02:18:19,000 --> 02:18:20,220 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: already argumentative. 963 02:18:20,500 --> 02:18:22,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Asked and answered, counsel, and argumentative. 964 02:18:22,820 --> 02:18:28,140 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: There is nothing confidential about where you are supplying. 965 02:18:28,140 --> 02:18:28,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Asked and 966 02:18:28,400 --> 02:18:35,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answered, counsel, whether you agree or not, whether you agree or not with the answer of Ms. Aileen, that was the answer she gave. 967 02:18:35,280 --> 02:18:43,130 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Continuing objection, Your Honor. if it will apply again to medicines, if it will apply again to supplies, chairs and tables. We will 968 02:18:43,130 --> 02:18:43,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: have a 969 02:18:43,550 --> 02:18:44,390 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: continuing objection 970 02:18:44,390 --> 02:18:45,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to this line of 971 02:18:45,830 --> 02:18:46,710 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: questioning, Your Honor. 972 02:18:46,790 --> 02:18:47,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We're not yet there, counsel. 973 02:18:48,070 --> 02:18:48,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Attorney 974 02:18:48,550 --> 02:18:50,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Christine, you may proceed. 975 02:18:50,290 --> 02:19:01,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, po. Your Honor, thank you po. So you are saying the COA is in a better position to judge whether an information is confidential or not. Wala akong karapatan sa agency. 976 02:19:03,060 --> 02:19:03,980 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Argumentative, Your Honor. 977 02:19:04,440 --> 02:19:04,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: With 978 02:19:04,920 --> 02:19:22,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: regard to the food, Your Honor, we are on the example of the supplier of food. Okay. Sa instance ho na yan, sa tingin n'yo, hindi ho siya confidential, di ba ho? So kayo ho yung mas nakakaalam na ito, you are in a better judgment sa bagay 979 02:19:22,500 --> 02:19:23,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ho na yan. 980 02:19:23,160 --> 02:19:30,580 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po dun sa food po, yung tao na, yung tao mismo na bumili, yun yung confidential. Ganun po. 981 02:19:30,580 --> 02:19:32,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi po yan yung tanong ko eh. 982 02:19:32,980 --> 02:19:33,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The 983 02:19:33,520 --> 02:19:34,720 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: question is vague, Your Honor. 984 02:19:35,200 --> 02:19:35,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 985 02:19:35,740 --> 02:19:37,000 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: question 986 02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:37,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is 987 02:19:37,520 --> 02:19:37,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: vague. 988 02:19:38,000 --> 02:19:55,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sylene, ang tanong sa'yo ay may karapatan ba yung ahensya magsabi na ito confidential? Kayo lang ba ang may karapatan? Kasi I can actually answer. Tell me if you agree. You review the submissions of the agencies, correct? 989 02:19:56,380 --> 02:19:56,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pag 990 02:19:56,860 --> 02:20:02,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may observation kayo, mag-EAOM kayo, and they can say, ah hindi, confidential to. And then you can agree or disagree, correct? 991 02:20:02,860 --> 02:20:06,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based on the evaluation po nung magiging response nila. 992 02:20:06,860 --> 02:20:17,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And given the difference in the notice of suspension and notice of disallowance as pointed out by counsel earlier na may mga tinanggal na kayo, may mga binawas kayo, di ba? Kasi napaliwanag nila. 993 02:20:18,840 --> 02:20:25,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, minsan sinasabi nila sa unang tingin mo, hindi confidential ito, biglang nagpaliwanag sila, confidential yun, binawas nyo o binabawas nyo? 994 02:20:25,860 --> 02:20:34,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, based po sa evaluation ng response nila, kung na-answer na po nila yung issues raised dun sa AOM or CNS. Na 995 02:20:34,040 --> 02:20:40,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: -answer o napaliwanag nila o nakumbinsi kayo na confidential ito, therefore, hindi kailangan ng resibo o invoice. 996 02:20:40,560 --> 02:20:40,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 997 02:20:41,100 --> 02:20:47,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama. But your determination is anyway appealable, if at all, to the Supreme Court, the Commission of the Supreme Court? 998 02:20:48,080 --> 02:20:53,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pag yung sa COA po, o pag may decision, may remedy pa po na umakyat sa Supreme Court? 999 02:20:53,520 --> 02:20:55,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Okay. Counsel, move on. 1000 02:20:55,780 --> 02:21:07,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, in short, sa sagot mo na yan, ibig sabihin, kayo talaga yung nagdedetermine na ito, hindi dapat ito confidential. Kasi nga, kagaya nung supplies, medicine, and food. Yun po yung naging basis ninyo ng 1001 02:21:07,980 --> 02:21:12,580 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: ND ninyo, di ba po? Your Honor, please, I think this was the question itself of the presiding officer. 1002 02:21:12,780 --> 02:21:13,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Already answered, counsel. 1003 02:21:14,060 --> 02:21:14,400 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The 1004 02:21:14,400 --> 02:21:19,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: answer is, we want to put it on record, Your Honor, the answer. Ask and answer, 1005 02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:19,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. 1006 02:21:20,220 --> 02:21:22,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: She agrees, counsel. She 1007 02:21:22,060 --> 02:21:27,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: already agrees. Okay, I'll move on, Your Honor. Can we move on, Your Honor? 1008 02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:48,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Miss Celine, who determines the safeguard to be implemented in order to secure the success of an agency's confidential operations? Part ba ho yun ng audit n'yo na kung ano yung mga hindi dapat dinadivulge or dinadivulge ng agency? Part ho ba ng co-ICFA audit yun? 1009 02:21:49,870 --> 02:21:53,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: With regard to their confidential operations. Your 1010 02:21:53,510 --> 02:21:55,850 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, again, this is ask and answer. 1011 02:21:55,950 --> 02:21:58,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: No, Your Honor. By rephrasing the question, 1012 02:21:58,590 --> 02:22:00,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, by rephrasing 1013 02:22:00,030 --> 02:22:00,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the question. 1014 02:22:00,050 --> 02:22:00,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: This is a different question. 1015 02:22:00,990 --> 02:22:02,490 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Wait for 1016 02:22:02,490 --> 02:22:05,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel for the prosecutors. Yes, Atty. Kapuna? 1017 02:22:05,490 --> 02:22:11,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, these are the same questions rephrased differently, Your Honor. Ask and answer. 1018 02:22:11,310 --> 02:22:12,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It is not, Your Honor. 1019 02:22:14,200 --> 02:22:17,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kasi kanina, who determines whether... 1020 02:22:17,520 --> 02:22:19,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court will allow it. Atty. Celine, please answer. 1021 02:22:20,510 --> 02:22:42,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, ulitin ko po ah. Who determines? Sino ba yung nagdi-determine kung ano dapat yung mga safeguards, mga panuntunan na i-implement dapat ng agency para ma-secure po yung success ng confidential operations? In short, sino dapat yung nagdi-determine na itong information na ito, confidential ito, hindi? 1022 02:22:45,690 --> 02:22:51,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po, dapat po sa agency meron silang sound and effective internal control. 1023 02:22:51,820 --> 02:23:04,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat po. So, sa agency na yun. Si agency dapat. At si Kowa Ikfaw, merely audits liquidation documents relative to the confidential funds. Tama po ba? We 1024 02:23:04,020 --> 02:23:11,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: base po sa liquidation documents submitted at base po sa joint circular yung pag-evaluate namin per liquidation documents submitted. 1025 02:23:12,280 --> 02:23:25,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. So, si Kowa Ikfaw, In that sense, you do not determine which information is confidential or not, correct? Kasi i-base lang naman po kayo sa liquidation documents. We 1026 02:23:25,980 --> 02:23:31,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: base our audit po sa liquidation documents submitted to us. We rely po doon sa pag-conduct ng audit. 1027 02:23:32,140 --> 02:23:37,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat po. Now, si Kowa Ikpao po ba ay privy sa confidential operations ng agency? 1028 02:23:40,010 --> 02:23:46,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kasaliw ba kayo dun sa mga confidential operations po ng OVP, for example? We base lang po our audit 1029 02:23:46,350 --> 02:23:48,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: dun sa liquidation documents submitted to us. 1030 02:23:48,270 --> 02:23:48,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, 1031 02:23:48,390 --> 02:23:48,830 Cylene May L. Del Campo: in short, 1032 02:23:48,930 --> 02:23:52,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: just answer the question. Kasaliw ba kayo sa confidential operations ng OVP? 1033 02:23:52,290 --> 02:23:55,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Answered, Your Honor. Wala hong answer, Your Honor. 1034 02:23:55,470 --> 02:23:55,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: She did 1035 02:23:55,490 --> 02:23:56,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not answer, counsel. She did 1036 02:23:56,490 --> 02:23:58,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: not answer. Yes, Your Honor. 1037 02:23:58,890 --> 02:24:01,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sylene, just answer it. Hindi kayo kasama, di ba? 1038 02:24:01,970 --> 02:24:03,990 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. Base lang po kami sa documents. 1039 02:24:04,510 --> 02:24:06,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, just say that hindi kayo kasama. 1040 02:24:06,550 --> 02:24:07,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Salamat po, Your Honor. 1041 02:24:09,220 --> 02:24:14,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It's 1216, Your Honor. Okay lang po ako. I can 1042 02:24:14,340 --> 02:24:14,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: continue. Thank you 1043 02:24:14,580 --> 02:24:16,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for pointing that out, counsel. 1044 02:24:20,450 --> 02:24:21,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your 1045 02:24:21,050 --> 02:24:27,330 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, may we know if the cross-examination will take another two hours, three hours? More likely, Your Honor, this is... 1046 02:24:27,330 --> 02:25:11,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's see. We cannot compel, neither can we force, her pressure counsel to limit her cross-examination. She has enough leeway to test the credibility of the witness. We shall take a lunch break and shall resume at 1 p.m. with the cross-examination of Cylene thereafter the interventions of the senator-judges. The first to register is attorney, rather, Senator-Judge Padilla. Thereafter, Senator-Judge Antiveros. Kindly take note of the sequence. Trial is, we are on recess until 1 o'clock. 1047 03:10:16,460 --> 03:10:24,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Miss Aileen, you are under the same oath and will continue with your testimony. You are under cross-examination by the counsel for the respondent. 1048 03:10:25,120 --> 03:10:26,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, Your Honor. 1049 03:10:28,040 --> 03:10:29,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nakakain na po kayo, ma'am? 1050 03:10:29,760 --> 03:10:31,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, Your Honor. Thank you, ma'am. 1051 03:10:33,350 --> 03:10:34,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine, are you ready? 1052 03:10:37,170 --> 03:10:37,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. 1053 03:10:38,230 --> 03:10:41,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, ma'am, with the continuation of your cross-examination. 1054 03:10:42,130 --> 03:10:45,910 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, can I have a few manifestations, Your Honor, please? 1055 03:10:46,450 --> 03:10:47,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: A few minutes of? 1056 03:10:47,590 --> 03:10:50,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: A few manifestations lang po, Your Honor. 1057 03:10:50,410 --> 03:10:51,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, ma'am, you may do so. 1058 03:10:52,090 --> 03:11:39,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Actually, Your Honor, we would like to ask this court to not allow side comments like, I was about to spank her, I was about to lecture her, kasi yung mga ganun, Your Honor, wala ho yung lugar dito sa courtroom. Because we are all lawyers here, we are all professionals, iga lang naman ho natin yung kapwa natin na lawyer. Halimbawa, At kagaya neto, mas matanda ho sa akin si Atty. Kapunan. Maybe she has more years of experience. She has 48 years, I have 15. We should learn to respect each other and refrain from making side comments, Your Honor. And that was captured by the media po. So, that is our request, Your Honor, to just remind the Council not to make those kinds of remarks. Thank you. 1059 03:11:39,530 --> 03:11:49,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Kapunan already... Although you are correct, it was already heard since we're on TV, Atty. Caponan withdrew that statement earlier if I remember correctly. 1060 03:11:49,530 --> 03:11:56,690 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Your Honor. In fact, I hope it was also part of the records that I promised to behave. 1061 03:11:57,230 --> 03:11:57,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank 1062 03:11:57,750 --> 03:11:58,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you, po. 1063 03:11:58,150 --> 03:11:58,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, 1064 03:11:58,890 --> 03:11:59,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 1065 03:12:00,250 --> 03:12:02,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you to both parties. 1066 03:12:04,050 --> 03:12:06,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, can you continue, Atty. Christine? 1067 03:12:06,370 --> 03:12:07,250 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. 1068 03:12:08,280 --> 03:12:15,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly do so, ma'am. You may proceed when you're ready. Ms. Aileen, kindly answer the cross-examination questions of Attorney Christine. 1069 03:12:16,160 --> 03:12:20,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po, Your Honor. So, hello, 1070 03:12:36,290 --> 03:12:46,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Aileen. Good afternoon, po. Okay, I hope you're fine. Okay ka pa naman, no? So, let's go to the liquidation of confidential funds. 1071 03:12:49,180 --> 03:12:53,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That is under section 6.2.3 of the JC. 1072 03:12:56,030 --> 03:13:00,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, I will ask my counsel to give you a copy of the JC. Please. 1073 03:13:01,630 --> 03:13:07,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting counsel may approach. Assisting counsel for the prosecutors may likewise approach to view the document. 1074 03:13:09,260 --> 03:13:13,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kindly peruse the JC under 6.2.3. 1075 03:13:24,860 --> 03:13:28,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Under that provision, 1076 03:13:30,310 --> 03:13:31,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That 1077 03:13:31,900 --> 03:13:38,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: provision enumerates the liquidation documents that should be submitted to the ICPAO, right? 1078 03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:39,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1079 03:13:39,320 --> 03:13:42,880 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: First is liquidation report, correct? 1080 03:13:42,880 --> 03:13:43,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1081 03:13:43,740 --> 03:14:03,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Next, certified copy of the check and paid DV. or disbursement voucher of the cash advance drawn for the CF being liquidated, signed, and or approved by the head of office with certification by the agency accountant stamped and printed on the DV. Is that correct? 1082 03:14:03,080 --> 03:14:04,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1083 03:14:04,400 --> 03:14:16,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, and number three, documentary evidence of payments and certification from the HOA and there is a format for that under Annex B of the JC, correct? 1084 03:14:16,040 --> 03:14:17,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1085 03:14:17,840 --> 03:14:21,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Then, physical and financial plan. 1086 03:14:21,540 --> 03:14:23,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1087 03:14:23,060 --> 03:14:32,560 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And then, certified copy of accomplishment report and its proof of submission to the Office of the President, the Senate, President, and House Speaker. Is that correct? 1088 03:14:32,560 --> 03:14:33,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1089 03:14:33,700 --> 03:14:48,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And then, copy of the transmitted letter of the DV and supporting documents pertaining to the cash advance being liquidated. Tapos yan ay may received. receiving copy ng COA audit team leader. 1090 03:14:48,550 --> 03:14:49,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1091 03:14:49,870 --> 03:15:03,980 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, lahat naman ho yan, no, based sa inyong audit, na-submit ho yan ng Office of the Vice President for the fourth quarter of 2022 as well as the first to third quarters of 2023. 1092 03:15:03,980 --> 03:15:05,800 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, okay. 1093 03:15:05,800 --> 03:15:15,220 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nasubmit din ho yan when it comes to the liquidation of confidential funds of the DepEd for the first to third quarter of 2023. 1094 03:15:15,220 --> 03:15:16,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama. 1095 03:15:16,020 --> 03:15:25,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you po. So, precisely nga, yun nga yung nag-come up ho kayo, nag-come up ho kayo ng audit findings ninyo in the form of the notices of this allowance. 1096 03:15:26,160 --> 03:15:30,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, doon na po ako pumasok sa notices of this allowance. Okay, 1097 03:15:30,060 --> 03:15:30,360 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: so, 1098 03:15:31,910 --> 03:15:37,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can we go back to the second ND? Ralph, can you please give a copy to the witness? 1099 03:15:40,920 --> 03:15:43,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That is dated March 1, 2026. 1100 03:15:44,700 --> 03:15:45,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 31. 1101 03:15:45,460 --> 03:15:49,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 31, Your Honor. I stand corrected. March 31, 2026. 1102 03:15:51,160 --> 03:15:56,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, do you have that copy already? Let's go to paragraph 2, Celine. 1103 03:15:58,940 --> 03:15:59,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Paragraph 2. 1104 03:16:01,480 --> 03:16:42,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It says there, based on the results of our evaluation, we drew consideration to subsequent information given under oath during the hearings of the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability of the House of Representatives. The amount of 375 million is hereby disallowed in audit. Nakita niyo ba yan? Opo, tama po. So, I'm just curious. Celine, isn't it that the audit of confidential expenses be based on the liquidation documents submitted by the agency? Pwede din po kaming mag-rely sa available information 1105 03:16:42,490 --> 03:16:43,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po. Mag-rely 1106 03:16:43,950 --> 03:16:45,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa available information. 1107 03:16:47,530 --> 03:16:56,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po. And yung information po na ito is galing dun sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability. 1108 03:16:56,510 --> 03:17:13,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, I just cited that. I'll propound questions later. But nakalagay ho ba sa JC na pwede kayong mag-rely specifically dun sa committee hearing na ginawa ng CGGPA, Committee on Good Governance and Public Accountability? 1109 03:17:14,490 --> 03:17:23,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: pwede po siyang pumasok dun sa 6.2.3.7 na other supporting documents or necessary for the audit. Dun po siya papasok. 1110 03:17:23,510 --> 03:17:28,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Dun siya papasok sa other supporting documents. 1111 03:17:28,960 --> 03:17:32,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi parang additional information po. 1112 03:17:32,100 --> 03:17:35,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ah, okay. But isn't that a hearing? 1113 03:17:35,760 --> 03:17:43,800 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala namang ano ba yung documents na nanggagaling dun from 1114 03:17:46,310 --> 03:17:49,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Anyway, I'll redraw my question. Pero, 1115 03:17:52,670 --> 03:18:03,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: naalala mo yung nag-testify dito si Wamil? Si auditor, co-auditor Wamil? Naalala mo yun? The day before you testified. 1116 03:18:04,840 --> 03:18:07,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, nag-testify po siya. Pero ano pong... 1117 03:18:07,550 --> 03:18:44,470 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, okay. I'm about to ask you a question. So, noong August 5, 2026, nag-testify si... Atty. Walmil. And he was asked by the good senator, Erwin Tulfo, and the good senator said, nasa ano po yan, journal, but I'm saying, every agency na meron pong intel or confidential fund, Do they have to undergo audit periodically or random lang? Dahil marami po tayong ahensya ng gobyerno na may intelligence confidential fund na hindi naman dapat. 1118 03:18:46,110 --> 03:19:08,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And attorney Wamil said, ang audit po namin ay based dun sa liquidation documents na sinubmit po nila. So, would you agree with me that The TSNs that form part of the CGGPA hearings were not part of the liquidation documents that were submitted by the OVP. 1119 03:19:09,370 --> 03:19:12,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po siya naging part ng submission, pero... 1120 03:19:12,230 --> 03:19:25,970 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay lang, okay, I have to, ano, okay na yun, no? You can answer me with yes or no, no? So, hindi ho part yun sa liquidation documents ng OVP. Your Honor, this question is misleading. This witness 1121 03:19:25,970 --> 03:19:27,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: never testified. 1122 03:19:29,010 --> 03:19:37,950 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: that it is part of the submissions or documents submitted by the OVP or DepEd by way of liquidation of confidential funds. 1123 03:19:38,470 --> 03:20:01,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think counsel is quoting paragraph 2 of the notice of disqualification that they took into account based on the results with due consideration. They took into consideration. The Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability report. Witness may answer. 1124 03:20:01,720 --> 03:20:05,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. Pwede pong pakiulit yung tanong? 1125 03:20:05,750 --> 03:20:06,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sige. 1126 03:20:06,290 --> 03:20:16,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Agree ho ba kayo na yung mga transcript of stenographic notes doon sa CGGPA hearing, Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, hindi po kasama doon sa liquidation documents na sinubmit po ng OVP, Office of the Vice President. 1127 03:20:16,430 --> 03:20:25,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po kasama sa submission. 1128 03:20:25,570 --> 03:20:26,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Salamat po. Hindi din po. kasama doon sa sinubmit na liquidation documents po ng DepEd? 1129 03:20:26,490 --> 03:20:35,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi din po. 1130 03:20:35,090 --> 03:20:36,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Thank you. 1131 03:20:39,440 --> 03:20:43,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Let's go back to the notice of disallowance, please. 1132 03:20:47,440 --> 03:20:48,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 1133 03:20:48,240 --> 03:20:56,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can we go to the opening statement? Yung we have audited the submitted liquidation forms. Nakita niyo po yan? 1134 03:20:56,920 --> 03:20:57,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1135 03:20:57,480 --> 03:21:21,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, that opening statement says, we have audited the submitted liquidation reports and its supporting documents for the cash advances of confidential fund of the OVP for the period February 6 to 30 of the calendar year 2023 as detailed below. I am reading it right? 1136 03:21:21,090 --> 03:21:22,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1137 03:21:22,010 --> 03:21:25,400 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, okay. 1138 03:21:31,870 --> 03:21:41,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Based dito, no? Dito nga, no? Yung audit ninyo are based lang dun sa submitted documents. 1139 03:21:43,190 --> 03:21:45,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, based po dun sa submitted documents. Thank you. 1140 03:21:47,050 --> 03:21:51,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Now, dun po tayo sa ND, no? 1141 03:21:53,410 --> 03:22:07,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: May nakalagay, let's, you can go over po, no? May nakalagay po ba na word yan na misuse of funds? Ground po ba yun ng disallowance? If you go over the ND. 1142 03:22:11,320 --> 03:22:14,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po dito yung word na misuse. 1143 03:22:15,980 --> 03:22:27,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll ask you later, no? If I have questions on that. Okay, thank you. So wala ho doon, no? How about the word corruption? Mayroon ho ba? 1144 03:22:27,420 --> 03:22:30,920 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based po dito sa wordings ng ND, walang nakalagay po. 1145 03:22:31,400 --> 03:22:35,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, how about misappropriation? May nakalagay ho ba dyan? 1146 03:22:38,140 --> 03:22:43,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung mismong word po na yun, wala rito. Pero, Mr. Preside, yun lang ho 1147 03:22:43,120 --> 03:22:43,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung tanong ko. 1148 03:22:44,860 --> 03:22:49,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly just answer the question, Ms. Eileen, so that we can move forward faster. Kung ano na po yung tanong. 1149 03:22:49,400 --> 03:22:50,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay po. 1150 03:22:50,320 --> 03:22:52,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Opposing counsel will have her chance at redirect. 1151 03:22:53,140 --> 03:22:57,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, dun tayo sa acknowledgement receipts. 1152 03:22:59,040 --> 03:23:12,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Earlier, you testified that you reviewed the acknowledgement receipts. Okay, which form part of the liquidation documents ng OVP at saka ng DepEd? 1153 03:23:12,300 --> 03:23:13,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama. 1154 03:23:13,280 --> 03:23:13,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In 1155 03:23:13,500 --> 03:23:15,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: fact, nag-come up kayo noong summary? 1156 03:23:16,460 --> 03:23:20,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, during my evaluation, tinabulate ko po yung acknowledgement receipts. 1157 03:23:20,580 --> 03:23:30,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, and you have reviewed 1,823 ARs for the OVP. Tama ba yung number na yon? 1158 03:23:32,190 --> 03:23:41,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang paghahanda-tanda ko po is hindi ko makakanya yung total, pero 519 sa first, 530, and 774 sa third quarter. 1159 03:23:41,270 --> 03:23:47,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court will confirm 1,823 as manifested by the counsel for the panel of prosecutors. 1160 03:23:47,490 --> 03:23:50,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, and for the DepEd, it's 1,824? 1161 03:23:51,290 --> 03:23:52,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1162 03:23:52,430 --> 03:23:57,410 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, for a total of 3,647 ARs. 1163 03:23:57,950 --> 03:24:04,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, for the 2023 po ng voting. Yes, that is, 1164 03:24:04,130 --> 03:24:12,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'm about to ask that, no? That pertains to the first three quarters of those two agencies. Correct? Opo, tama 1165 03:24:12,070 --> 03:24:12,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po. 1166 03:24:12,510 --> 03:24:20,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Now, of course, in identifying the ARs kahapon, no, you provided schedules. 1167 03:24:22,370 --> 03:24:23,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung tabulation ko po. 1168 03:24:25,570 --> 03:24:26,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We 1169 03:24:26,130 --> 03:24:29,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: will be showing the schedules, Your Honor, to the Witness? 1170 03:24:29,840 --> 03:24:32,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: When you say schedule, counsel, you mean dates? The 1171 03:24:32,780 --> 03:24:36,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: summaries, Your Honor, that they provided to us yesterday. 1172 03:24:36,620 --> 03:24:37,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the dates. 1173 03:24:37,260 --> 03:24:40,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: They're not schedules, Your Honor. Or summaries, I stand corrected. 1174 03:24:41,200 --> 03:24:42,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tables and summaries. They're tabulations, 1175 03:24:42,480 --> 03:24:42,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 1176 03:24:43,120 --> 03:24:44,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, tables and summaries. Just 1177 03:24:44,380 --> 03:25:09,520 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: to clarify, Honorable President. Yes, Attorney Capunan. The documents presented by this witness are of two natures. One is a tabulation, which is marked. And the other is a summary. The summary of the tabulations, Your Honor. Separately marked, Your Honor. So what is counsel referring to? The summary? The tabulation? I will 1178 03:25:09,520 --> 03:25:10,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: be confronting the witness. 1179 03:25:12,660 --> 03:25:13,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, counsel. 1180 03:25:13,740 --> 03:25:14,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you, Your Honor. 1181 03:25:18,440 --> 03:25:24,700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So you have identified this in open court, this summary and tabulations. 1182 03:25:31,020 --> 03:25:33,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, for the 1183 03:25:40,100 --> 03:25:45,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: first quarter, that's February 1 to March 30, 2023. 1184 03:25:47,380 --> 03:25:48,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Can 1185 03:25:48,870 --> 03:25:56,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you produce this? This was marked as Exhibit P-1-33 of the prosecution. 1186 03:25:57,270 --> 03:25:59,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So that's the tabulation for 1187 03:25:59,290 --> 03:26:05,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the first quarter? Is that the tabulation that you made for the first quarter of 2023? 1188 03:26:06,990 --> 03:26:11,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, ito po yung tabulation for the first quarter of 2023 ng DepEd. 1189 03:26:11,670 --> 03:26:28,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. So, in this tabulation, you provided the date, the document, the particulars, and the amount. Opo, tama po. But you did not provide the place of payment. 1190 03:26:28,570 --> 03:26:31,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong, ang nilagay ko lang po hanggang dyan. 1191 03:26:31,760 --> 03:26:37,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hanggang dito lang. Okay. Importante yun ba yung place of payment sa findings ng COA 1192 03:26:37,280 --> 03:26:42,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: -EGFAO? Hindi po namin isinama yun sa findings po namin. 1193 03:26:42,590 --> 03:26:57,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Hindi ninyo isinama sa findings ninyo such that kung may disbursements on the same date and they occurred in different places, hindi na covered yun ng findings ng COA-EGFAO. 1194 03:26:57,550 --> 03:27:12,830 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Because we presume regularity po dahil dun sa certification na certification under oath ng SDO that it was for confidential operations and it is necessary and for legal purposes. Okay, thank you. 1195 03:27:14,010 --> 03:27:29,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I'm showing you another set of Do you call this summary or schedule? Tabulation. Okay, tabulation. This was marked as your Exhibit P-1-32? 1196 03:27:30,310 --> 03:27:31,410 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1197 03:27:31,590 --> 03:27:36,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: This tabulation pertains to, you're the one who... This is 1198 03:27:36,030 --> 03:27:41,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: for OBP for the third quarter of 2023 po. 1199 03:27:41,510 --> 03:27:47,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Hindi rin nakalagay yung lugar na... 1200 03:27:49,330 --> 03:27:52,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: place of payment in each of the tabulations 1201 03:27:52,430 --> 03:27:57,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: that you made. Yung mga acknowledgement receipts po kasi sa OBP, walang nakalagay na address. 1202 03:27:58,030 --> 03:28:12,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, I'm asking you. Ask and answer, Your Honor. Hindi, I'm asking her, Your Honor. That's the answer. I'm confirming na wala ditong nakalagay na place of payment. Wala po. Wala po sa OBP. 1203 03:28:12,410 --> 03:28:23,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. And, sorry, I'll go back to this document, no? Wala din siyang perma at pangalan mo. Kasi po working 1204 03:28:23,230 --> 03:28:24,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: paper ko lang po. 1205 03:28:24,430 --> 03:28:27,730 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Working paper mo to. Okay. Wala din siyang heading. 1206 03:28:29,370 --> 03:28:29,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi 1207 03:28:29,890 --> 03:28:30,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na 1208 03:28:30,270 --> 03:28:31,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po nailagay dito sa partner ko. 1209 03:28:31,550 --> 03:28:31,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi na 1210 03:28:31,570 --> 03:28:32,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: nailagay. Hindi 1211 03:28:32,010 --> 03:28:41,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ka nalilito? Kasi po yung dates po is pertaining to the third quarter. Alright. Wala din perma. Kasi nga working paper mo. Ask and 1212 03:28:41,010 --> 03:28:42,590 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: answered, Your Honor. Ask and answered. No 1213 03:28:42,590 --> 03:28:43,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: working papers, no 1214 03:28:43,750 --> 03:28:44,470 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: signature needed. 1215 03:28:44,930 --> 03:28:46,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ask and answered. Move on, counsel. 1216 03:28:47,100 --> 03:28:53,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please, the lawyer is, counsel, is answering for the witness. I was asking for the signature. 1217 03:28:54,440 --> 03:28:55,440 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please. 1218 03:28:56,400 --> 03:29:03,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Lorna, it's okay. Asked and answered, counsel, move on. She already answered that it's her working paper and therefore did not 1219 03:29:03,160 --> 03:29:03,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sign it. 1220 03:29:03,880 --> 03:29:04,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. 1221 03:29:06,460 --> 03:29:21,730 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Of course, eto rin, no? This one is Schedule P-1-34. kasi hindi ko ma-identify kung anong schedule ho yan. Again, Your Honor, it is a summary. Yung may 1222 03:29:21,730 --> 03:29:21,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: mga 1223 03:29:21,890 --> 03:29:34,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: nakalagay po na counter-insurgency, abuse prevention and control within schools, anti-illegal operations, at anti-extremism, it's for the Department of Education. Okay. 1224 03:29:35,030 --> 03:29:40,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero, okay, of course, it did not say the Department of Education. 1225 03:29:40,630 --> 03:29:41,610 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, pero yun po yung... 1226 03:29:41,610 --> 03:29:42,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, yun yun. 1227 03:29:43,210 --> 03:29:43,770 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sige. 1228 03:29:44,840 --> 03:29:45,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And then, 1229 03:29:47,330 --> 03:30:02,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: etong counter, etong P-1-35, ano ho ito? Kasi nakalagay yung counter-insurgency programs, July 12, September 30, 2023. 1230 03:30:02,940 --> 03:30:08,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ito po is for the Department of Education for the third quarter po ng 2023. So, 1231 03:30:08,460 --> 03:30:16,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: hindi nakalagay yung Department of Education dito. Kasi ka working paper mo lang. Opo. 1232 03:30:27,760 --> 03:30:50,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ito namang sa OVP, April 25 to June 30, 2023, date of receipt, of Czech, April 24, 2023. Now by reading it, I don't seem to understand what this means. 1233 03:30:54,320 --> 03:31:17,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ano ho to? Ito po yung summary nung tabulation ko ng Office of the Vice President Acknowledgement Receipt for the period April 25 to June 30, 2023. Dito po kasi kaya ito naka open and close parenthesis na date of check April 24. Kasi ito po yung pagbebisan ko kasi yung sa circular po bawal ang reimbursement. Thank 1234 03:31:17,880 --> 03:31:18,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you. 1235 03:31:19,360 --> 03:31:20,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So anyway, you... 1236 03:31:23,340 --> 03:31:29,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: made the caption this way, kasi nga, working paper mo lang. Ikaw, naiintindihan mo naman siya. Opo, tama po. 1237 03:31:31,260 --> 03:31:37,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wala ding lugar, yung place of payment na nilagay mo dito. Opo, 1238 03:31:37,100 --> 03:31:39,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: wala din po dyan, saka wala rin pong nakalagay sa mismong acknowledge. 1239 03:31:39,880 --> 03:31:51,110 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, ang dami nito, no? So, I'm asking, etong mismong schedule na to, walang nakalagay na lugar. Your Honor, please, if 1240 03:31:51,110 --> 03:31:51,390 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: I may. 1241 03:31:51,870 --> 03:31:52,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel. 1242 03:31:53,090 --> 03:32:06,410 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please. I think this witness already answered and was stopped mid-sentence. She said, walang nakalagay na lugar kasi wala naman nakalagay na lugar sa dokumentong sinubmit ng... 1243 03:32:06,410 --> 03:32:33,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Only for that particular one, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. Not for all. But I think I saw the documents, counsel. All of the tabulations of the witness, Aileen, For all the quarters in 2023, for both DPED and OVP, does not contain either names nor places in the acknowledgement receipt. Correct, Ma'am Celine? 1244 03:32:34,060 --> 03:32:36,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong nakalagay dun sa tabulation ko. 1245 03:32:36,940 --> 03:32:37,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: It only contains 1246 03:32:37,620 --> 03:32:40,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the date, the activity, and the amount. 1247 03:32:40,300 --> 03:32:44,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung ano yung document, acknowledgement receipt. Yes, 1248 03:32:44,020 --> 03:32:50,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the nature of the document. But again, no name. Whether it's an alias or a real name and no address. 1249 03:32:50,790 --> 03:32:53,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. I'll continue, Your Honor, at the 1250 03:32:53,910 --> 03:32:54,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: podium. 1251 03:33:24,610 --> 03:33:26,130 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, okay. 1252 03:33:35,550 --> 03:33:47,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll continue my questions. With my questions. Now, the ICFAO confines its audit on the face of the acknowledgement receipts, correct? 1253 03:33:48,480 --> 03:33:49,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po. 1254 03:33:49,560 --> 03:33:50,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 1255 03:33:52,950 --> 03:33:59,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Whether, that is to determine whether The ARs support the disbursements under audit. 1256 03:33:59,890 --> 03:34:00,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, ang 1257 03:34:00,730 --> 03:34:06,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: chinecheck po namin is yung acknowledgement receipt, sinusuportahan ba niya yung activities accomplishment report? 1258 03:34:07,030 --> 03:34:22,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Okay. In fact, si Atty. Wamil, as you know, he confirmed on August 3, 2026, hearing that the ICFAO does not verify the identities of the PAYEs reflected in the 1259 03:34:22,690 --> 03:34:29,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: ARs. Are you aware of that? We based po on the face of the document po. Okay. 1260 03:34:36,420 --> 03:34:51,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In fact, when he was asked by the good senator, Erwin Tulfo, on August 5, about aliases, this is what he said, Atty. Wamil, this can be found in the journal. 1261 03:34:53,200 --> 03:35:34,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, Senator Erwin Tulfo, so if this is not allowed or prohibited, I mean, bakit nang i-audit po ninyo ang Confidential Intelligence Fund po ng OVP? Hindi ba ninyo hiningi ang tunay na pagkakakilanlan ni Napiatos, McDonald's, Mickey Mouse, at iba pa? At ang sagot po ni Atty. Wamil, Ang katulad nga po nung sinabi ko sa aking previous testimony, ang focus po ng audit namin ay compliance audit. So kung ano po yung provision ng circular, doon lang po, yun lang po yung ginagawa naming basis ng audit. 1262 03:35:49,160 --> 03:35:54,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your audit is based on the provisions of the JC. Ask and 1263 03:35:54,960 --> 03:36:01,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: answer, Your Honor. Compliance with the provisions of the JC. Likewise, 1264 03:36:01,240 --> 03:36:01,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ask and 1265 03:36:01,820 --> 03:36:03,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer, Your Honor. Thank you. 1266 03:36:16,400 --> 03:36:28,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so, as correctly said by Mr. Wamil, the JC does not mandate that you conduct the identities of the pays reflected in the AR. 1267 03:36:29,810 --> 03:36:33,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Do you confirm that? Pwede pong pakiulit. 1268 03:36:33,420 --> 03:36:33,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. 1269 03:36:34,040 --> 03:36:44,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Gaya ng sinabi ni Atty. Wamil, you do not conduct a verification of the identities of the pays reflected in the AR. 1270 03:36:44,240 --> 03:36:45,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, hindi po. 1271 03:36:45,100 --> 03:36:59,590 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Kasi po, kung gagawin nyo yan, you will be compelled to go out there and... search for the 3,647 payees reflected in the ARs, correct? Can 1272 03:36:59,590 --> 03:37:03,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: I clarify po kung naging statement din po yun ni Mr. Warren? Kasi 1273 03:37:03,570 --> 03:37:21,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: kung i-require po kayo ng, tapos na, nasagot mo na yung statement kanina. Kaya ang next question, kasi po, kung i-require po kayo ng JC na isa-isa pong titignan o i-verify yung identities ng mga payees, recipients po ng AR, 1274 03:37:23,570 --> 03:37:31,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: lalabas kayo doon, you will search for the 3,647 pages reflected in the AR. Your Honor, please. 1275 03:37:31,830 --> 03:37:32,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel. 1276 03:37:32,810 --> 03:37:33,370 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Objection. 1277 03:37:33,370 --> 03:37:34,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: This is speculative. 1278 03:37:35,910 --> 03:37:46,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If the witness knows, masailin. Bakit hindi n'yo inaalam kung sino yung mga totoong pagkakakilanlan ng mga tao nakalagay sa AR? Because 1279 03:37:46,350 --> 03:37:51,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po, what we do is compliance audit po. We base our audit sa documents lang po. 1280 03:37:51,450 --> 03:37:52,890 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I will 1281 03:37:52,890 --> 03:38:06,810 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: follow on that, Your Honor. Precisely, you did not verify the identities of the 3,600 pays that were reflected in the ARs that you... 1282 03:38:06,810 --> 03:38:08,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Audited. Ask and answered, Your Honor. 1283 03:38:08,130 --> 03:38:08,770 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi pa po, Your Honor. 1284 03:38:08,770 --> 03:38:08,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Actually, counsel 1285 03:38:08,970 --> 03:38:13,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: asked and answered. She said earlier that based 1286 03:38:13,170 --> 03:38:13,950 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: on documents, 1287 03:38:14,050 --> 03:38:22,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: they presumed the regularity. I think that was the answer to that question. They presumed the regularity of the documents submitted to them. 1288 03:38:22,570 --> 03:38:30,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I will accept that, Your Honor. I was actually just adding the number of pays, Your Honor. Please 1289 03:38:30,710 --> 03:38:31,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proceed, counsel. Yes, 1290 03:38:31,570 --> 03:38:38,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: thank you, Your Honor. So, Punta ko tayo ulit sa JC. May format po ba yung JC kung ano dapat 1291 03:38:38,930 --> 03:38:41,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung acknowledgement receipts? 1292 03:38:41,350 --> 03:38:46,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang nakalagay lang po sa Joint Circular is Documents, Evidencing, Payments. 1293 03:38:46,370 --> 03:38:48,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: No, ito 1294 03:38:48,430 --> 03:38:57,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: po yung tanong ko, no? May format po ba yung Joint Circular kung ano dapat yung itsura po ng acknowledgement receipts? Wala pong 1295 03:38:57,030 --> 03:39:01,170 Cylene May L. Del Campo: format yung acknowledgement receipts sa Joint Circular. Okay, thank you. 1296 03:39:05,200 --> 03:39:18,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, therefore, kasi wala hong format yung joint circular, pwede hong gumawa, may discretion ho yung agency kung ano po dapat yung nakalagay doon sa acknowledgement receipt nila. 1297 03:39:21,450 --> 03:39:29,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Basta po makita namin sa dokumento yung proof of payment doon sa recipients po. Yun po yung itinicheck namin. 1298 03:39:29,790 --> 03:39:55,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. Let's go to the names. that were in the ARs. So, sabi ho ni Atty. Wamil, noong August 5, 2026, hearing, sabi ho niya, the use of aliases is neither allowed nor prohibited in the ARs. Now, the use of aliases in the ARs. Are you aware of that? 1299 03:39:56,290 --> 03:40:00,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po, silent po ang joint circular sa alias po. 1300 03:40:00,330 --> 03:40:03,190 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, thank you. In fact, kung... 1301 03:40:05,360 --> 03:40:40,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: nakinig ka ho, or nakikita mo ho sa TV, sinabi ho ng ating good senator, Bam Aquino, noong August 5, sabi ho niya, okay, dito naman sa tumanggap, allowed ba yung code names, allowed ba yung alias sa inyo, ang sabi ho niya attorney Wamil, based on the provision, it is neither allowed nor prohibited, since silent po yung joint circular. Oo po, silent po ang joint circular. Okay. Now, Do you confirm that the J.C. does not have a provision on names or aliases? Ask and answer, Your Honor. 1302 03:40:41,200 --> 03:40:41,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your 1303 03:40:41,380 --> 03:40:41,700 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. 1304 03:40:41,900 --> 03:40:43,560 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, excuse me. 1305 03:40:44,100 --> 03:40:45,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Counsel, Attorney Governor. 1306 03:40:45,800 --> 03:40:58,040 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Precisely, this witness asked if aliases are allowed. She said it is neither allowed nor disallowed. So it is silent, Your Honor. Now she's asking the same question in another fashion. 1307 03:40:59,340 --> 03:41:05,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll let it go this time for emphasis, counsel, but I'll move on to your next point after that, Attorney Christina. 1308 03:41:05,920 --> 03:41:13,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. Do you confirm that the JC does not have provision on names or aliases? 1309 03:41:13,960 --> 03:41:19,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi yung kanina silent 2 yung sinabi. So, wala po, walang provision on names or aliases. 1310 03:41:19,980 --> 03:41:26,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong nakalagay sa Joint Circular as to the alias po. Okay. So, and 1311 03:41:28,880 --> 03:41:34,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: this is precisely why the ICFA has no... Findings on the alleged use of names or aliases. 1312 03:41:35,420 --> 03:41:42,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, ang mahalaga po kasi is naibigay talaga ito sa totoong tao na for allowable confidential expenses. Ang 1313 03:41:42,860 --> 03:41:56,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: tanong ko ho, wala hong findings si Ikfaw on the names, on the use of fictitious names or aliases. Nasa notices of disallowance po ba yun? Wala pong nakalagay 1314 03:41:56,020 --> 03:41:57,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa notices of disallowance. 1315 03:41:57,500 --> 03:42:27,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, I am showing you the first ND. That's the August 2024 notice of disallowance. Just a run through, Your Honor. May hawak na po kayo ngayon? Oo po. Nakikita niyo ba ho yung name d'yan na Mary Grace Piatos? Wala po. How about Renan Piatos? Wala din po. Andy Silim? Wala po. Patty Ting? 1316 03:42:28,920 --> 03:42:30,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. Thank 1317 03:42:30,330 --> 03:44:01,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: you. Now, let's go to the second notice of this allowance. Kindly flash that. That's dated March 31, 2026. Okay. During your direct examination, the good counsel flashed on the screen sample ARs showing the following names. Does she have a copy of the second ND? Now, I will ask you. if the following names are in the second notice of this allowance. That's dated March 31, 2026. Pia Piatus Lim. Meron ba dyan? Wala po. Ralph Josh Bacon. Wala din po. Anne Ungpauko. Wala po. Diane Maple Lapid. Wala din po. Miggy Mayo. Wala po. Kokoy Villamin. Wala po. Denise Tanya Escudero. Wala po sa notice of disallowance. Christine Applegate Estrada. Wala din po. Okay. Okay, so wala ho kayong findings doon. Gaya ng sinabi n'yo kanina. So, may tanong ho ako sa inyo, no? Kung yung pangalan ho ba... If the name appears to be funny, does that automatically... mean that the name is fictitious? Kasi nga, may mga chinlash po na ARs dito. 1318 03:44:01,480 --> 03:44:24,680 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, the question is misleading. The point of flashing these acknowledgement receipts were not the names. The names were incidental, that the names were funny or fruit salad-y or names of congressmen or senators, Your Honor, is immaterial. They were flashed because of the manner by which the funds were used. Counsel, you 1319 03:44:24,680 --> 03:44:28,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: have to admit, you had fun with the names. We had 1320 03:44:28,600 --> 03:44:29,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: so much fun, Your 1321 03:44:29,340 --> 03:44:36,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. Exactly. So, let her cross the witness based on those and utilize it as well. 1322 03:44:36,880 --> 03:44:43,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, ayun po, kung nakakatawa ho ba yung pangalan, automatic, fictitious na yun. Your 1323 03:44:43,940 --> 03:44:44,420 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, again, 1324 03:44:44,660 --> 03:44:45,480 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: fictitious. 1325 03:44:45,480 --> 03:44:56,250 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, Counsel. Just for the record, fictitious is her own conclusion. We have made no such conclusion as regards to the name, except perhaps that they are funny. Your Honor. 1326 03:44:56,510 --> 03:45:17,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, counsel, actually, that's not entirely accurate because in the complaint, you did allude to the fact that some of the names are fictitious based on the PSA documents that you attached as an annex to the complaint, although you're not yet there. You haven't gotten there yet. Please continue, Atty. Christine. Atty. Kapunan, give her her share of fun with the names. 1327 03:45:19,000 --> 03:45:22,680 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: May I be allowed, Your Honor, to sit down while she's having fun? 1328 03:45:22,680 --> 03:45:26,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Atty. Kapunan, you may do so. Atty. Christine, please proceed. Okay, 1329 03:45:27,020 --> 03:45:35,220 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I will continue my question, Your Honor. If a name appears to be funny, does it mean it's fictitious? 1330 03:45:35,220 --> 03:45:37,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi ko po siya masasagot 1331 03:45:37,100 --> 03:45:47,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: kasi... Hindi mo siya masasagot, meaning? Kasi hindi ko na, wala po namang yung base, yung sa name po kasi hindi ko masasagot kung Totoo 1332 03:45:47,500 --> 03:45:48,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: o hindi? Oo. 1333 03:45:48,540 --> 03:45:49,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. 1334 03:45:49,120 --> 03:45:56,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, in short, hindi mo masasabi na porkit nakakatawa yung pangalan, eh peke na yun. Yun o ba sinasabi ninyo? 1335 03:45:56,720 --> 03:46:00,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Parang hindi po ako makakasagot dun sa tanong na ganun. 1336 03:46:02,670 --> 03:46:04,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, basta walang findings na ganun, no? 1337 03:46:05,500 --> 03:46:05,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To 1338 03:46:05,820 --> 03:46:17,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: clarify, let me help you a bit, Atty. Christine. Wala kayong binanggit tungkol sa mga pangalang nakakatuwa o nakakatawa sa dalawang Notice of Disallowance, Celine? Wala, di ba? 1339 03:46:17,700 --> 03:46:18,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 1340 03:46:18,340 --> 03:46:20,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala rin sa anumang AOM binanggit yun, di ba? 1341 03:46:20,840 --> 03:46:21,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala din po. 1342 03:46:23,600 --> 03:46:28,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kahit yung mga lugar kung saan binayaran, wala kayong binanggit sa AOM o sa Notice of Disallowance man? 1343 03:46:29,120 --> 03:46:30,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, wala po. 1344 03:46:30,380 --> 03:46:32,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Thank you. Please proceed, 1345 03:46:32,600 --> 03:46:32,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. 1346 03:46:33,020 --> 03:46:33,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Christine. 1347 03:46:33,420 --> 03:46:34,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you. Thank you, Your 1348 03:46:34,360 --> 03:46:38,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. So, now let's go to the CGGPA hearings. 1349 03:46:41,990 --> 03:46:48,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nandun ka ho noong September 18, 2024 na hearing sa 1350 03:46:48,740 --> 03:46:55,380 Cylene May L. Del Campo: CGGPA. Nag-attend po ako ng mga meetings pero hindi ko na po matandaan yung exact date. 1351 03:46:55,380 --> 03:46:56,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Ito 1352 03:46:56,060 --> 03:46:58,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: yung nandun si Atty. Camora. 1353 03:47:01,800 --> 03:47:21,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi niyo matandaan. Nag-attend po pero hindi ko na matandaan yung exact date po. Okay. So, In that hearing, are you aware that she was asked by Representative Swan Singh about the grounds for disallowance under the second notice of disallowance? Did you know that? 1354 03:47:25,570 --> 03:47:26,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, 1355 03:47:28,400 --> 03:47:33,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: we will flash the TSN. Don't worry, counsel. It's 1356 03:47:33,440 --> 03:47:34,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: okay if you don't recall, Sylene. 1357 03:47:36,390 --> 03:47:39,770 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po, hindi ko na po, hindi ko na po maalala yung exact na number. 1358 03:47:39,770 --> 03:47:40,250 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: May we just be 1359 03:47:40,250 --> 03:47:43,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: clarified, is counsel referring to a September? September 1360 03:47:43,650 --> 03:47:54,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 18, 2024 hearing. Okay, let's go, let's flash page 29 of the TSN. On that hearing, pages 29 and 30. 1361 03:47:55,770 --> 03:47:59,470 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Please, ah, tech, okay 1362 03:48:02,990 --> 03:48:03,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: na ho? 1363 03:48:05,190 --> 03:49:49,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so, in that hearing, no, attorney, ah, Atty. Camora said, yes, good morning, Madam Chair. As to the 2022 notice of disallowance, there were three. Kasi nga tinanong siya kung ano yung grounds. Then the chairperson sabi, ma'am, pakilakasan po yung boses ninyo, hindi marinig. Ms. Camora, Okay, there were three items that are part of the notice of this allowance. The first one is non-submission of documents on the payment of rewards. The second one is charging some items that are not compliant under the rules, joint circular. And the third one is non-submission of the revised accomplishment report. On the OVP to the three regulatory offices, which are the office of the President, the Senate President, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Because they submitted the original one and they made an amendment. And then, Representative Swan Singh said, Mr. Chair, if ko wa, and then the chairperson said, please proceed, Congresswoman Swan Singh. Representative Swan Singh may... May I please be enlightened to explain to us, because it seems a little bit technical as to how it was explained by COA, kung pwede hong maipaliwanag sa atin in non-technical terms as to the grounds for disallowance. Chairperson, COA, pakisimplify, please explain it in layman's term. Ms. Camora, yes, basically, the disallowance are because hindi po nagsubmit ng required documents under the Joint Circular. Do you confirm that? 1364 03:49:50,280 --> 03:49:51,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, based po sa... 1365 03:49:51,860 --> 03:49:52,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, 1366 03:49:52,400 --> 03:49:56,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: nasinabi niya yan. Okay. So, okay. 1367 03:49:58,820 --> 03:50:07,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Let's go to the April 14, 2026 hearing sa COJ, Committee on Justice. Nanduno kayo? 1368 03:50:07,390 --> 03:50:09,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Pero hindi ko na rin po ganong 1369 03:50:09,750 --> 03:50:10,170 Cylene May L. Del Campo: maalala 1370 03:50:10,170 --> 03:50:10,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung 1371 03:50:10,510 --> 03:50:11,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: specifics. 1372 03:50:11,030 --> 03:50:17,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, okay lang. We will flash the TSN, the relevant TSN for that. 1373 03:50:19,550 --> 03:51:07,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, we are referring to page 194 of the COJ-TSN dated April 14, 2026. Kindly flash it on the screen. 194. Okay. Okay. So, in that hearing, Representative de Lima asked Attorney Camora, no, if there's anything in the COA decision dated April 10, 2026, stating that the alleged misuse of funds, stating the alleged misuse of funds, okay, just to lay the basis, no? Dito sa hearing na to, tinanong ko si Atty. Camora na kung may desisyon na ba ho yung koa doon sa appeal ni respondent, tama ho? Maalala nyo lang. Yun 1374 03:51:07,750 --> 03:51:07,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po 1375 03:51:07,890 --> 03:51:08,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ba yung sa... 1376 03:51:08,830 --> 03:51:18,670 Cylene May L. Del Campo: April 14 na hearing. Pero pertining po ito doon sa fourth quarter 2022 ng OPP. Yes, sakto po. Okay, 1377 03:51:18,970 --> 03:51:58,810 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: so tinanong siya, sinabi niya may decision na nga, dated April 10. And then, Representative de Lima propounded some questions which are found on page 194 of the TSN. So sabi yun ni Representative de Lima, meron din hubang... Nakasabi, although I know, nasabi nga po, nilinaw po ng ating chair na let's wait for the copy. Iyong talagang official copy of the decision. Although you have it already, but we want really yung pinaka-official in the sense na nandyan yung hard copy. Atty. Camora said, opo. Rep. Dalima, Ay, natatandaan n 1378 03:51:58,810 --> 03:52:49,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ho ba kung yung decision na yan ay may nakasabi doon na mali talaga yung paggamit ng mga confidential fund sa OVP at hindi alinsunod sa circular, sa joint circular. Miss Camora said, Madam Chair, it's, sandali lang po ulit. Then, Representative de Lima, Hindi, sa mga tamang gamit ng confidential funds as prescribed under the Joint Circular. And then Ms. Camora said, nakalagay po, in this case, the accomplishment report on the utilization of confidential and intelligence funds, the DEPs and the certifications submitted failed to comply with the guidelines and conditions set forth under the Joint Circular po. Your 1379 03:52:49,990 --> 03:52:53,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, please, if I may interject at this moment. What 1380 03:52:53,030 --> 03:52:55,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is the interjection of Atty. Kapunan? Your 1381 03:52:55,970 --> 03:53:51,400 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, please, counsel is reading from transcripts. She is reading from transcripts. We have judicial notice of these transcripts, Your Honor. But she is reading statements of other people and asking this witness about statements of Hamora, about statements of other people. Your Honor, just by her being present there, Your Honor. Now, if that is their intention, then they should present that witness here. Because that witness can testify on her personal knowledge. You are asking this witness who was just there, she can state that a meeting actually occurred and she was there. But if you are going to ask her to confirm, for what purpose, Your Honor? Transcripts will show the presence of Hamora. It will show her presence. 1382 03:53:51,840 --> 03:55:01,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'd like to thank Atty. Kapunan. You did not make an objection, but I would have sustained it. Atty. Christine, counsel, correspondent, this was one of the warnings of the presiding officer. At that time, directed at the prosecution actually, when they asked for the court to take judicial notice of it. Not to use the transcripts to read into the record certain things that is not being testified to by a witness that has personal knowledge over it. If you recall our interjections in relation to the Las Cañas affidavit, this is similar to that. So unless you are referring to the witness herself who testified there, kindly present the witness that you are reading the statements of because this is only as to tenor as to the fact that Camora said this. You can confront the witness through another way without reading certain statements made because the opposing counsel might just do this to you at some point which I will also not allow. To be fair. 1383 03:55:01,940 --> 03:55:11,640 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, I understand, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. But the witness already confirmed that she was at the hearing. I'm just asking if she remembers that this statement is being 1384 03:55:11,640 --> 03:55:14,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: made. It's a way and technique, counsel. Anyway, 1385 03:55:14,400 --> 03:55:14,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 1386 03:55:15,020 --> 03:55:18,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Gabunan might just do that with the transcripts at 1387 03:55:18,360 --> 03:55:20,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: some point, which I also will not allow. We 1388 03:55:20,560 --> 03:55:22,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: will just ask the question at the right time, Your Honor. 1389 03:55:22,980 --> 03:55:25,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly do so at the right time and with the right witness, counsel. At the right time, Your 1390 03:55:25,580 --> 03:55:26,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor, please. 1391 03:55:26,120 --> 03:55:28,060 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: At the right time and to the right witness. 1392 03:55:28,340 --> 03:55:29,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. It's not 1393 03:55:29,000 --> 03:55:30,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the right witness, Your 1394 03:55:30,080 --> 03:55:33,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. Just as the presiding officer stated. Move on, Atty. 1395 03:55:33,080 --> 03:55:34,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Christine. Okay. 1396 03:55:37,370 --> 03:55:40,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Punta ko tayo sa time frame ng expenditures. 1397 03:55:43,220 --> 03:55:52,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nakalagay ko ba sa JC na may... minimum number of days na dapat i-utilize po yung confidential funds. 1398 03:55:52,650 --> 03:55:57,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron pong nakalagay sa Joint Circular. Hanapin ko lang po dito. 1399 03:56:06,400 --> 03:56:19,460 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po sa item 6.1.5 that cash advances shall be limited to the requirements for three months. Tapos, yun po, the disbursement voucher. Doon po nasa 6.1.5. 1400 03:56:19,460 --> 03:56:29,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sige, salamat po. You're referring to the cash that is being provided by the agency, which should be limited only for 3 months, tama? 1401 03:56:29,320 --> 03:56:30,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama. 1402 03:56:30,260 --> 03:56:49,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pero nakalagay ho ba sa JC na sa loob ng 3 months na yan, dapat i-utilize nyo, let's say, within, dapat i-utilize nyo ng hindi iiksi ng 10 araw, dapat merong at least 30 days na utilization. May ganun ho ba? 1403 03:56:49,320 --> 03:56:51,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong nakaspecify sa agency. Wala pong nakaspecify 1404 03:56:51,740 --> 03:56:52,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: doon. 1405 03:56:52,540 --> 03:56:53,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Now, 1406 03:56:56,900 --> 03:57:05,220 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: In fact, the determination of time and speed of utilization is outside the scope of the COA-ICFAO audit, correct? 1407 03:57:07,820 --> 03:57:15,480 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pwede pong paulit. Kung gaano kabilis ginastos yung pera, hindi inausakop yun ng audit ng ICFAO. 1408 03:57:16,040 --> 03:57:21,260 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, what does counsel mean by gaano kabilis? 1409 03:57:21,340 --> 03:57:26,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let me do it, counsel. Is the fact that the 1410 03:57:27,850 --> 03:57:36,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: respondent, spent the last quarter confidential funds in 11 days found in any of your AOMs or notices of disallowance? 1411 03:57:36,430 --> 03:57:43,430 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nabanggit lang po siya dun sa AOM na binanggit po dun na it was spent in 11 days. Pero 1412 03:57:43,430 --> 03:57:46,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: walang finding in relation to it violating the memorandum circular? 1413 03:57:47,350 --> 03:57:51,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. Nakalagay lang po na statement na it was used for 11 days. 1414 03:57:51,230 --> 03:57:52,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As a statement of fact? 1415 03:57:52,550 --> 03:57:52,850 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1416 03:57:53,010 --> 03:57:55,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Move on, counsel. Okay. 1417 03:57:59,200 --> 03:58:09,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Napunta naman tayo dun sa DepEd for the first to third quarters of 2023. 1418 03:58:10,420 --> 03:58:11,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, 1419 03:58:16,250 --> 03:58:29,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: with respect to the DepEd confidential funds, nasabi nyo rin kahapon na may credit notice na 1420 03:58:31,210 --> 03:58:36,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Number 2024-162 dated August 8, 2024. Tama? 1421 03:58:36,970 --> 03:58:38,130 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay. 1422 03:58:38,150 --> 03:58:41,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung amount nun ay 75 million pesos. 1423 03:58:41,630 --> 03:58:42,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. For the two quarters. 1424 03:58:43,410 --> 03:58:52,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. And ang ibig sabihin, the credit notice was signed by the chairperson Gamaliel Cordoba. 1425 03:58:52,960 --> 03:58:53,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1426 03:58:53,400 --> 03:59:04,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, the issuance of credit notice means that the confidential expenses totaling 75 million were already allowed in audit, correct? 1427 03:59:05,920 --> 03:59:08,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, based po. Based dun 1428 03:59:08,100 --> 03:59:34,170 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa credit notice. Okay. So, bale, yung findings ni Atty. Wamil, balik ko tayo dun sa AOM number 2024-015, pakiflash ko ulit. Yung AOM number 2024-015, dated February 1, covering the first and second quarter of 2023, binaliwala 1429 03:59:34,170 --> 03:59:45,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na ho yun ng COA. Hindi po sa binaliwala, pero nung in-evaluate po namin yung kanilang response, na-comply po yung requirements ng Joint Secular. Yun nga. 1430 03:59:45,730 --> 03:59:52,000 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Kinancel na yun. Kung baga hindi na inadapt ni COA yun, yung findings na yun. 1431 03:59:52,340 --> 03:59:56,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo kasi nga, during the evaluation, na-comply na yung mga issues raised sa AOM. 1432 03:59:57,040 --> 03:59:58,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So... 1433 04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:03,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ibig sabihin, can we go to page 3 of the AOM? 1434 04:00:06,070 --> 04:00:10,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung page 3 kasi, nakalagay dun yung mga accomplishment reports. 1435 04:00:11,790 --> 04:00:21,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We have observed that there was a lengthy direct examination here on the part of Atty. Wamil. So, ito lahat nung nakalagay sa accomplishment reports. 1436 04:00:24,320 --> 04:00:38,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Itong counter-insurgency program, abuse prevention and control within the schools, anti-illegal activities operations, anti-extremism terrorist programs, all of the amounts spent here were already allowed in audit. 1437 04:00:40,510 --> 04:00:41,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1438 04:00:41,230 --> 04:00:42,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Thank you. 1439 04:00:49,310 --> 04:00:54,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: As to the third quarter naman, pending pa yung AOM. 1440 04:00:54,590 --> 04:00:55,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Di ba po? 1441 04:00:55,210 --> 04:00:58,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, under evaluation and review pa po yung response. 1442 04:00:58,250 --> 04:01:01,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, wala pa ang notice of disallowance? 1443 04:01:01,630 --> 04:01:03,850 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pa po kaming nilalabas na any... Wala. 1444 04:01:03,910 --> 04:01:05,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Wala ang notice of suspension, of course. 1445 04:01:05,770 --> 04:01:06,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pa po. 1446 04:01:06,530 --> 04:01:06,830 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 1447 04:01:07,930 --> 04:01:08,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. 1448 04:01:11,190 --> 04:01:35,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Nung direct examination ni Atty. Wamil noong August 4, I don't know kung you were here, he was asked about internal controls. of the OVP and DepEd. At sinabi po niya, based, which I quote, I will not ask the witness if she heard it, Your Honor. That's my caveat. 1449 04:01:35,750 --> 04:01:58,650 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, again, before counsel proceeds with this line of questioning, there is only one witness here, Your Honor. There are not two. Attorney Wamil is not here. They had the opportunity to ask these questions from Attorney Wamil. Now, to ask these questions, From this witness about what attorney Wamil said, Your Honor, I think it's, I 1450 04:02:00,440 --> 04:02:14,130 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: was going to say, but I'll say it anyway, it's an absolute waste of time of this honorable court, Your Honor. To ask questions, to ask this witness to confirm, did you hear what attorney Wamil said? Did 1451 04:02:14,810 --> 04:02:30,200 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: you see what he said on TV? Your Honor, please, you can ask this question. Directly from this witness. Unless you want to call attorney Wamil again to the witness stand and ask questions you did not ask before. Your Honor. Counsel, 1452 04:02:30,960 --> 04:02:43,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the presiding officer will allow it because it's part of CROSS to try to test the credibility of the witness in relation to statements made by a co-worker, or at least former, a co-worker still, who... 1453 04:02:45,670 --> 04:02:56,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: turned over documents to her pertaining to the OVP and the DepEd. Kindly proceed with your question because I'm sure the witness will ask you to repeat your question again anyway. Yes, 1454 04:02:57,090 --> 04:03:03,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: thank you, Your Honor. Actually, the good counsel, Atty. Capunan, is preempting my question. Wala pa nga akong question. 1455 04:03:03,870 --> 04:03:04,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: At 1456 04:03:04,350 --> 04:04:01,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sinabi ko hindi dahil narinig niya yun o hindi. Hindi yun yung question ko. So, in that, on August 4, Tinanong si Atty. Wamil about his opinion on the internal controls of the DepEd and the Vice President. Okay, ito yung sinabi ni Atty. Kapunan. Nakita ba natin sa mga dokumento na sinubmit ng Vice President at ng Secretary of DepEd, nakita ba natin yung mga internal controls? Sabi ni Atty. Wamil, opo. Since based... On the documents po, may deficiencies pa na noted. So it can be inferred, sabi niya, na hindi strong yung kanilang internal control. Now, does the COA-ICFAO evaluate the internal control of an agency? 1457 04:04:03,700 --> 04:04:12,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa internal control po ng agency, nasa responsibility po kasi ng head of agency to institute internal control po. 1458 04:04:12,820 --> 04:04:23,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so in short, anong sagot ninyo doon? Yes or no po? Kasakop ba ng audit ng COA-EGFAO yung evaluation ng internal control ng OVP? 1459 04:04:26,300 --> 04:04:32,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang magiging one lang po namin dun, participation, is sa pag-evaluate ng documents. Makikita po kasi yung... No, 1460 04:04:32,900 --> 04:04:33,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: just 1461 04:04:33,040 --> 04:04:35,840 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: answer, sorry. She's answering, Your Honor. 1462 04:04:36,020 --> 04:04:37,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think witness, let the witness answer, counsel. 1463 04:04:38,240 --> 04:04:51,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay, Your Honor. Based po kasi diba dun sa evaluation ng documents, makikita kasi dun na hindi maganda yung internal control, kaya nga po nang nagsabi, kasi hindi naging compliant dun sa joint circular po. 1464 04:04:51,200 --> 04:05:08,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, but is that finding on internal control, is that something that you can... find in the notice of disallowances? Notices of disallowance, nakalagay n'yo ba doon na internal control n'yo mahina, dapat baguhin n'yo kasi hindi kayo nag-comply ng documents. Nakalagay n'yo ba 1465 04:05:08,050 --> 04:05:23,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: doon? Hindi po siya nakalagay na word pero yun po yung nasa recommendation para mag-comply nila yung documents at sa susunod na pwede po po makahiram ng copy ng AOM para lang po. 1466 04:05:24,330 --> 04:05:28,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly, Sir, notice of disallowance or I am? No, I'm 1467 04:05:28,230 --> 04:05:30,970 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: referring to the NDs, Ms. Witness. The 1468 04:05:30,970 --> 04:05:32,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: notice of disallowance? 1469 04:05:32,010 --> 04:05:52,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, yes, Your Honor. Ang tanong ko lang, simple lang yung tanong ko, nanduno ba sa findings ninyo? Okay, kaklaro ko, Your Honor. Nakalagay ho ba dun sa findings ninyo, very specific na to, na, uy, OVP, mahina yung internal control nyo, kaya dinidisallow namin itong expense 1470 04:05:52,990 --> 04:06:05,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na to. Hindi po siya nakalagay doon na mahina yung internal control. Pero dahil nga po hindi naging compliant with the Joint Circular, narereflect po doon na may kakulangan sa internal control. So in 1471 04:06:05,750 --> 04:06:10,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: short, hindi yung nakalagay doon yung internal control. Yun lang yung itong tanong ko, Sylene, no? 1472 04:06:13,530 --> 04:06:22,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yun bang si ICFAO, nagkandak po ba ng fieldwork sa satellite offices ng OVP? Pumunta ko ba kayo doon? Ay. 1473 04:06:22,140 --> 04:06:23,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based lang po kami 1474 04:06:23,100 --> 04:06:24,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa documents. Sa dokumento lang 1475 04:06:24,140 --> 04:06:24,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: talaga, no? 1476 04:06:25,080 --> 04:06:28,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: How about sa DepEd? Pumunta po ba kayo sa tanggapan ng DepEd? 1477 04:06:28,600 --> 04:06:31,680 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ah, hindi po. Based lang po sa submissions nila na documents. 1478 04:06:31,680 --> 04:06:32,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ah, 1479 04:06:32,280 --> 04:06:43,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: syempre hindi po kayo, wait, ito ah, question lang po ito, no? Out of curiosity, no? Nakapag-observe po ba kayo ng confidential operations ng OVP? 1480 04:06:44,480 --> 04:06:48,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ah, gaya nga po nang nasabi ko, we based lang po sa documents na submit sa amin. 1481 04:06:48,880 --> 04:06:49,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: How 1482 04:06:49,320 --> 04:06:54,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: about sa DepEd po? Ganun din po, based lang po dun sa documents na na-receive namin. 1483 04:06:54,770 --> 04:06:57,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Okay, salamat. 1484 04:06:59,500 --> 04:07:00,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, 1485 04:07:01,690 --> 04:07:09,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sinabi mo, as mentioned earlier, may dalawang notices na tayo of disallowance. Okay. 1486 04:07:11,810 --> 04:07:23,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yung first notice natin, yung December 2022, yung fourth quarter. Aware naman po kayo na na-appeal po yun sa commission proper, no? Yes po, na-furnishan po kami noong petition 1487 04:07:23,820 --> 04:07:24,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: for review. 1488 04:07:24,900 --> 04:07:28,360 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Oo, kasi signatory ka dun sa answer na final ng ikfaw? 1489 04:07:28,540 --> 04:07:29,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1490 04:07:29,120 --> 04:07:55,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Alright. And on April, sorry, on April 10, the commission proper issued a decision. Tama? Opo. And then nag-file ho yung respondent doon, si respondent vice president, ng motion for reconsideration. Sinabi nyo kayapon? Opo, na-furnishan po 1491 04:07:55,010 --> 04:07:56,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: kami ng office namin. 1492 04:07:56,490 --> 04:08:04,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So yung motion for reconsideration ngayon, pending pa ho yun? Walang resolution? Sa pagkakaalam ko po, wala pa po. 1493 04:08:06,690 --> 04:08:15,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi wala ka pang nare-receive na resolution. Usually po kasi pag may decision, nafe-furnish yan yung office namin. Wala pa pong nafe-furnish sa amin. 1494 04:08:15,230 --> 04:08:15,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, 1495 04:08:16,810 --> 04:08:27,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa inyo pong palagay, no? Based po sa inyong karanasan as auditor, no? The Supreme Court may affirm, modify, or reverse the COA decision? 1496 04:08:30,590 --> 04:09:04,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pwede pong pakiulit. Hindi po. Okay. Sige. Basis ninyong karanasan kasi 12 years na ho kayong auditor, no? Yung mga ina-appeal pong ganito, halimbawa nag-appeal ho si respondent, vice president doon sa Supreme Court, pwede hong i-affirm, you know what affirm is? Pwede hong modify, baguhin, at pwede hong modify, meaning may pagbabago, at i-reverse, baliktarin yung COA decision. Yun po yung mga posibilidad pag nag-appeal tayo sa Supreme Court. Your Honor, 1497 04:09:04,090 --> 04:09:20,590 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: please, the question is misleading. Counsel is misleading because that is not what the law is. There is no such thing as appeal to the Supreme Court. There is petition for certiorari or on grave abuse, Your Honor. The witness 1498 04:09:20,590 --> 04:09:22,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may answer, Counsel. We're not 1499 04:09:22,450 --> 04:09:23,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: dealing 1500 04:09:23,270 --> 04:09:33,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: with strictly legal matters here. I doubt if she understands the difference between articles, rather rule 45 and 65 of the rules of court. Because the 1501 04:09:33,530 --> 04:09:34,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: witness is a layman. 1502 04:09:34,610 --> 04:09:38,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If she knows, whatever you know, Sylene, in relation to the question. 1503 04:09:39,410 --> 04:09:48,410 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa pagkakaalam ko lang po, ang finafile po sa Supreme Court is petition for certiorari. Yes, okay. 1504 04:09:48,730 --> 04:10:04,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ang tanong ko doon is, ang maaring maging output, o risulta, no? Pwedeng ma-affirm yun ng Supreme Court, pwedeng ma-modify, at pwedeng i-reverse. Yun po yung mga posibilidad. Di po ba? Your Honor, these are legal remedies. 1505 04:10:04,650 --> 04:10:05,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness would 1506 04:10:05,050 --> 04:10:06,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not know, Counsel. Witness would not 1507 04:10:06,690 --> 04:10:07,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: know, incompetent. 1508 04:10:07,970 --> 04:10:09,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on, Counsel. Okay, 1509 04:10:09,230 --> 04:10:20,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I'll move on, Your Honor. So, punta ako tayo sa second, second disallowance, no? Notice of disallowance. Yung date po noon, March 31, 2026. Okay? 1510 04:10:22,230 --> 04:10:36,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: na-receive siya noong April 20, 2026, at sinabi n'yo kahapon na may 180 days pa para mag-appeal yung respondent. At kung sino mang nakapangalan doon sa notice na yun. 1511 04:10:36,570 --> 04:10:36,990 Cylene May L. Del Campo: At 1512 04:10:36,990 --> 04:10:44,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sinabi n'yo kahapon na the respondent is well within the regulatory period to file her appeal. 1513 04:10:44,940 --> 04:10:46,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1514 04:10:46,200 --> 04:10:54,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, in short, Yung first and second notices na to, wala pang final and executory dito. 1515 04:10:56,120 --> 04:11:01,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa final and executory po na yun, yun pong sa... 1516 04:11:01,600 --> 04:11:04,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi, okay, sige, tatlo. I 1517 04:11:04,020 --> 04:11:06,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: will... I will modify my question. 1518 04:11:07,070 --> 04:11:08,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Rephrase, counsel. Okay. 1519 04:11:08,150 --> 04:11:13,090 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: When does a notice of disallowance become final and executory? 1520 04:11:13,330 --> 04:11:30,170 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa COWA-IGFAO po kasi, once nag-issue kami ng disallowance, under the joint circular po, kailangan itong i-restore sa book. So magiging part ito ng unliquidated cash advance at ang yung nakalagay po dito is i-restitute na po yung amount. 1521 04:11:31,090 --> 04:11:33,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can you listen to my question? That's your answer, Your Honor. Ang 1522 04:11:33,950 --> 04:11:43,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: question ko, when does the notice of disallowance become final and executory? So, yung answer mo is based dun sa? 1523 04:11:43,810 --> 04:11:44,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based po kasi 1524 04:11:44,730 --> 04:11:47,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa ND. So, pag-issue ng ND, final and executory na yun? 1525 04:11:48,070 --> 04:11:57,130 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. May demand po to restitute po. Pero yun nga, meron pang remedy which is mag-file po sa ng appeal sa commission proper. 1526 04:11:57,590 --> 04:12:47,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, isn't it that a A notice of disallowance becomes final and executory upon issuance of a notice of finality of decision. Aware ko kayo niyan kasi nagpa-practice ko kayo sa ICFAO. Yung notice of finality of decision. Okay. So, in fact, can we flash it on the screen, please? That is under item 3.21 of the Joint Circular. Nakalagay ko, no? If you can go over. the item, notice of finality of decision. Nakalagay ho, a written notification that a decision of the Commission on Audit has become final and executory. Agree mo ba kayo sa definition na yan? Opo. Okay. 1527 04:12:49,730 --> 04:12:59,570 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, in this case, wala pa po tayong nare-receive na notice of finality of decision. Wala pa po. Okay. Salamat. 1528 04:13:03,690 --> 04:13:15,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Now, Tinanong kayo kahapon about misappropriation. Nalala n'yo under 8.3 ng JC? 1529 04:13:18,310 --> 04:13:19,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sige, 1530 04:13:19,150 --> 04:13:20,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: go ahead. Just look for it. 1531 04:13:22,650 --> 04:13:23,410 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Apo. 1532 04:13:24,510 --> 04:13:55,000 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. So, tinanong kayo na you were asked as to when does a prima facia presumption of misappropriation for personal benefit by an accountable officer arise under section or item 8.3 of the JC. Anong sagot n'yo? You equated that with failure to liquidate. Tama ko? 1533 04:13:55,000 --> 04:13:55,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1534 04:13:55,700 --> 04:14:10,290 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. Anong sinabi n'yo? When we say failure to liquidate, correct me if I'm wrong, sinabi n'yo, when there is submission of incomplete documents. Yun ang sinabi n'yo kahapon. Tama ko ba? yung pag-intindi ko? 1535 04:14:13,630 --> 04:14:15,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pakiulit. 1536 04:14:15,010 --> 04:14:28,100 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. Sinabi sa inyo kahapon, tinanong kayo, when is there failure to liquidate? Sinabi niyo, pag may incomplete submission ng documents, there is failure to liquidate. Tama po ba? 1537 04:14:28,100 --> 04:14:31,070 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Can I clarify po? Baka... 1538 04:14:31,070 --> 04:14:41,490 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Sige, ulitin ko na lang yung tanong sa'yo ngayon. Kailan mo ba natin masasabi under 8.3 ng JC that there is a failure to liquidate? 1539 04:14:42,640 --> 04:14:57,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po dito sa UBP, pag po kasi yung notice of disallowance na issue na, babalik siya as part ng unliquidated cash advance ng SDO. 1540 04:14:57,320 --> 04:15:15,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so I will stop you there, sorry. Kailan ho masasabi na may failure to liquidate? Kapo nung sinabi n'yo, kahit nag-liquidate, pero may incomplete submission ng documents. Totoo po ba yun? Pinapanindigan n'yo o binabago yun yung statement na yun ngayon? 1541 04:15:17,720 --> 04:15:29,500 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang kuhaan ko po dun is yung failure to liquidate is yun nga po, pag na-ending na siya at naibalik na to sa book, may magpo-form part ng unliquidated cash advance. So lalabas siya na failure to liquidate. 1542 04:15:30,250 --> 04:15:39,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Kahit yung reason ng ND is incomplete submission of documents. Kasi nga po, yung... Let's answer me. Para ano lang tayo, no? Your Honor, 1543 04:15:39,790 --> 04:15:48,050 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: argumentative already. This witness was asked, what do you mean by failure to liquidate? And she answered. Kaya nga po... You're not arguing with the 1544 04:15:48,050 --> 04:15:48,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness, 1545 04:15:48,490 --> 04:15:48,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. 1546 04:15:49,030 --> 04:15:50,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Modifier question, counsel. Okay. 1547 04:15:51,450 --> 04:16:09,720 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Sinabi nyo that, you know, there's failure to liquidate pag meron ng ND. Okay. So, follow-up question. Kahit yung ND, yung ground niya is incomplete submission of documents. Meron pa rin yung failure to liquidate, tama? Opo, kasi nga, magiging form siya ng unliquidated cash advance 1548 04:16:09,720 --> 04:16:10,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: ng SDO. 1549 04:16:10,640 --> 04:16:34,100 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you. Okay. So, dyan sa 8.3, nakita niyo ba ho may citation ho yan sa gilid? Yung Supreme Court case na Antonio Martinez versus People and Sandigan Bayan, GR No. 126413, dated August 20, 1999. Nakita nyo ba yung citation na yan? Hindi ko po siya nabasa. 1550 04:16:34,360 --> 04:16:34,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ah, 1551 04:16:34,520 --> 04:16:36,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: hindi nyo po siya nabasa. Okay. 1552 04:16:37,890 --> 04:16:52,490 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so, do you know that that case involves a former OICN acting mayor of Caloocan City who failed to submit liquidation of his cash advances upon demand by the treasurer? Ask and answer, Your Honor. This witness says she 1553 04:16:52,490 --> 04:16:53,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: does not know 1554 04:16:53,590 --> 04:16:54,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this case. She did not 1555 04:16:54,070 --> 04:16:54,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: read it, counsel. 1556 04:16:55,030 --> 04:17:03,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so in short, Yung citation dyan sa 8.3, hindi nyo alam yung legal basis kasi hindi nyo nabasa yung Martinez case. Ask 1557 04:17:03,750 --> 04:17:05,550 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: and answered, Your Honor. Okay, hindi. Ask 1558 04:17:05,550 --> 04:17:05,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and answered. 1559 04:17:06,070 --> 04:17:08,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I will take that as a no, Your Honor. 1560 04:17:23,250 --> 04:17:24,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Now, okay. 1561 04:17:28,580 --> 04:17:33,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Do you agree that the COA is an independent constitutional commission? 1562 04:17:33,920 --> 04:17:38,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po. It was established under Article 9b of the Constitution. 1563 04:17:39,520 --> 04:17:41,020 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Improper for cross, Your Honor. 1564 04:17:41,600 --> 04:17:45,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, she's from COA. So, um, 1565 04:17:45,450 --> 04:17:52,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assistant Counsel, kindly give the paper that fell. Um, if she knows. Um, Cylene, if you know. 1566 04:17:55,480 --> 04:17:57,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, COA is an independent body po. 1567 04:17:58,260 --> 04:18:04,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, in that case, COA should be free from political pressure? Tama? In your own opinion? 1568 04:18:07,150 --> 04:18:09,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: COA po is an independent body. 1569 04:18:09,050 --> 04:18:09,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 1570 04:18:09,650 --> 04:18:13,650 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Opo. Independent. Free dapat siya from legislative inference. 1571 04:18:16,260 --> 04:18:19,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, independent po ang COA. Free dapat 1572 04:18:19,120 --> 04:18:28,020 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: siya from executive control. Your Honor, please ask and answer. Independent body, that's what independent body means. I'll give 1573 04:18:28,020 --> 04:18:30,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: her some leeway for emphasis, counsel. 1574 04:18:31,580 --> 04:18:32,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Please 1575 04:18:32,180 --> 04:18:36,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer the question, Zailina. Independent from the executive. 1576 04:18:36,890 --> 04:18:37,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po. 1577 04:18:37,970 --> 04:18:45,660 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: So, it is important that the COA's findings be solely based on its procedures and evidence. Do you agree with that? 1578 04:18:45,660 --> 04:18:46,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po. 1579 04:18:46,340 --> 04:18:57,860 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. And any information that is obtained outside should be verified by appropriate audit procedures. Tama? Your 1580 04:18:57,860 --> 04:19:00,240 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor, please, the question is vague. What does counsel 1581 04:19:00,240 --> 04:19:00,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: mean? Ask and 1582 04:19:00,860 --> 04:19:01,440 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: answer, Your Honor. 1583 04:19:01,620 --> 04:19:05,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ask and answer, then I know where she's going at. Yes. Get to it, counsel. 1584 04:19:05,660 --> 04:19:18,230 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. And yet, yung second ND po ninyo, in-adopt nyo po yung supposed... Results of investigation dun sa CGGPA hearings. Tama? 1585 04:19:18,230 --> 04:19:19,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po, ito po po. 1586 04:19:19,390 --> 04:19:21,410 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Ang tama, yes or no lang po. 1587 04:19:21,960 --> 04:19:40,820 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, don't, excuse me, don't answer. The question is misleading. This witness is being asked if she adopted the findings. No, Your Honor, this witness just said that there was an implied, that there was an admission by Gina Acosta herself. What findings is she talking about? Your 1588 04:19:40,820 --> 04:20:00,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor, please. I think she's referring to a notice of disallowance of March 31, 2026, where it's stated in the second paragraph that they after evaluation and with due consideration of the evidence given during the CGGPA hearings. I think that's what you're leading to counsel. It's a valid question. Yes, 1589 04:20:00,530 --> 04:20:06,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. Actually, I was about to quote the findings in the NED. Had the good counsel not stopped me. It's a valid 1590 04:20:06,310 --> 04:20:11,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question. Because they quoted it themselves in the notice of disallowance. 1591 04:20:11,510 --> 04:20:22,330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. So, ito bang mga findings ninyo with respect to La Chica? Natanong n'yo po ba si La Chica kung totoo heto? 1592 04:20:23,000 --> 04:20:28,300 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Uy, based lang po sa naging admission under oath ni Ms. Gina Acosta doon sa hearing. Okay. 1593 04:20:28,380 --> 04:20:30,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: How about si Colonel Nolasco? Tinanong n 1594 04:20:30,740 --> 04:20:39,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: 'yo ba kung tama yung mga pinagsasabi about sa kanya doon sa hearing ng CGGPA? Uy, based lang po doon sa naging admission 1595 04:20:39,180 --> 04:20:41,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: under oath nung CGGPA hearings po. 1596 04:20:41,980 --> 04:20:42,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Salamat po. 1597 04:20:45,100 --> 04:21:03,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Go back to Joint Circular No. 2015-001. Now, of course, you admitted earlier that this governs the auditing of confidential funds. And it is the audit guideline followed by COA in auditing confidential funds. 1598 04:21:03,780 --> 04:21:05,780 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, ito yung Joint Circular. 1599 04:21:06,330 --> 04:21:23,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, under the JC, confidential expenses pertain to surveillance activities in civilian government agencies intended to support the mandate or operations of the agency. Nakalagay po ba yan doon? 1600 04:21:23,990 --> 04:21:25,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, under 3.9. 1601 04:21:26,050 --> 04:21:37,770 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The JC also requires liquidation documents of the confidential funds to be submitted to the COA in a sealed envelope. Nakasarado dapat yun. 1602 04:21:37,770 --> 04:21:38,610 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1603 04:21:38,610 --> 04:21:47,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. At yung authorized lang na mag-receive doon ay yung State auditor lang na in charge dun sa audit ng confidential funds, tama po? 1604 04:21:47,940 --> 04:21:48,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 1605 04:21:48,820 --> 04:21:51,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang nakalagay po is ICFAO receiving. Okay. 1606 04:21:52,260 --> 04:21:54,960 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: ICFAO receiving, no? Ihanapin ko po 1607 04:21:54,960 --> 04:21:55,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung exact wording. Sige po. 1608 04:21:55,840 --> 04:21:55,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Okay. 1609 04:21:56,120 --> 04:21:56,840 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Go ahead. 1610 04:22:04,630 --> 04:22:07,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang nakalagay po rito, ICFAO authorized receiving staff. 1611 04:22:08,190 --> 04:22:12,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, authorized receiving staff. Hindi po ba yan yung assigned auditor? 1612 04:22:12,510 --> 04:22:13,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 1613 04:22:13,330 --> 04:22:14,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Not necessarily, no? 1614 04:22:16,330 --> 04:22:23,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, yung mga documents na yun are only to be examined by the COA-ICV. Under the JC. 1615 04:22:24,090 --> 04:22:27,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, yung mga liquidation documents po na sinasubmit. 1616 04:22:27,530 --> 04:22:39,350 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And, yung restriction dun sa JC, no, syempre na-explain po ito sa inyo bilang auditor, they are intended to prevent unauthorized disclosure of confidential information. Tama ho? 1617 04:22:39,980 --> 04:22:43,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dapat po ingatan namin din yung laman ng mga dokumento na yun. 1618 04:22:43,320 --> 04:22:44,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. And, 1619 04:22:46,410 --> 04:23:01,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The Joint Circular likewise requires the security officer to safeguard the confidential information from unauthorized disclosure. Nakita niyo ho yan sa JC? Yun po yung nakalagay 1620 04:23:01,670 --> 04:23:04,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: na definition ng security officer. 1621 04:23:05,170 --> 04:23:20,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And yet, during the COJ hearing, you transmitted, okay, you transmitted documents to the Committee on Justice. This is requested po through a subpoena po. 1622 04:23:21,360 --> 04:23:22,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, 1623 04:23:22,900 --> 04:24:03,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: requested through a subpoena, but you know, you admit that you have submitted these documents, no? And the following were submitted to the COJ, Committee on Justice. Letter A, Pakikonfirm na lang po, all submissions of the OVP to the COA concerning the liquidation of the OVP's CF or confidential funds for the fourth quarter of 2022. Tama? Ito po ba yung copy? Oo yan, sige. We are flashing it on screen and we are providing you a copy of that letter. Sige o. 1624 04:24:04,800 --> 04:24:55,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, pakikonfirm na lang po, no? So, yung sinabmit ho dito sa COJ, all the submissions of the OVP to the COA concerning liquidation of the OVP-CF for the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first to third quarter of 2023. Tama, Celine? Okay. Yung next item is all the submissions of the DepEd to the COA concerning the liquidation of the DepEd's CF for the first to third quarter of 2023, tama? Opo, tama. The third item is all the issuances, resolutions, and resolutions of the COA in relation to the liquidation of the OVPs and DepEd's confidential funds, tama? 1625 04:24:57,260 --> 04:24:59,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: base po dito sa transmittal. Okay. 1626 04:24:59,860 --> 04:25:23,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: And dilagay pa din ho dun sa transmittal n'yo sa page 5, no? Second to the last paragraph on page 5, the letter states, Considering that the documents pertain to confidential expenses, we respectfully request that appropriate measures be undertaken to protect the confidentiality of the information. Tama? Yes po. Okay. 1627 04:25:25,270 --> 04:25:40,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, Under the JC, is the House of Representatives Committee and Justice among the persons authorized to handle the audit of the confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd? 1628 04:25:40,460 --> 04:25:44,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Gaya nga po nang sabi ko, i-requested po ito through ASOG-B na po. 1629 04:25:44,760 --> 04:25:46,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Pakisagot lang po ng tanong ko. 1630 04:25:47,990 --> 04:26:06,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Authorize ho ba sila to handle the audit? I'm referring to the audit itself, no? I'm not referring to the subpoena. Authorize ho ba si House of Representatives Committee on Justice to handle the audit of confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd under the JC? 1631 04:26:06,990 --> 04:26:16,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under the Joint Circular po, responsibility po ng ikfaw na mag-conduct ng post-audit ng liquidation documents ng Confidential Intelligence. 1632 04:26:17,190 --> 04:26:17,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, 1633 04:26:17,810 --> 04:26:18,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: so, 1634 04:26:18,210 --> 04:26:23,110 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: ask and answer, Your Honor. Your Honor, please. Yes, 1635 04:26:23,150 --> 04:26:23,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Kapunan. 1636 04:26:24,440 --> 04:26:32,890 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The admonition of this honorable presiding officer, Your Honor, is to be patient, Your Honor. 1637 04:26:34,030 --> 04:26:35,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not admonition, request. 1638 04:26:36,780 --> 04:26:49,660 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, I have been patient. But in line with these continuing questions, first, bringing in the House of Representatives, bringing in this Senate, Your Honor, we 1639 04:26:51,710 --> 04:26:52,890 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: are in 1640 04:26:57,080 --> 04:27:45,000 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: response to, are we auditing? Your Honor, please. If they're making a point that this witness, that the COA witnesses here, Your Honor, are here to testify because they're scared of the budget, for their agency or they're scared of this. Congressman, Your Honor, Your Honor, this is already beyond cross-examine. While this honorable presiding officer has given much leeway, Your Honor, let us confine ourselves to what is precisely the definition of cross-examination is what was taken up during the rep and what may be relevant. What may be relevant, Your Honor, this is beyond relevance, Your 1641 04:27:45,000 --> 04:27:45,320 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor. 1642 04:27:45,340 --> 04:27:56,580 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: This is already immaterial and irrelevant. If they want to show, if that is their strategy, if that is their defense, Your Honor, present a witness. 1643 04:27:57,080 --> 04:28:13,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not an objection. Atty. Christine, I think it's more of a manifestation, but the presiding officer would ask you to move forward. I think the senator-judges and the court see your point and where you're going at in relation to this. You can move on to your next point. 1644 04:28:13,800 --> 04:28:27,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Actually, Your Honor, just a quick manifestation. The council is pre-empting my questions. I'm not... I will not be asking questions on the budget, Your Honor. That's not the line of my, the line, or the questions that I will ask, Your Honor. 1645 04:28:27,670 --> 04:28:28,110 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: That's not the point, Your 1646 04:28:28,110 --> 04:28:28,430 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Honor. 1647 04:28:28,750 --> 04:28:30,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can I continue, Your Honor, please? 1648 04:28:30,910 --> 04:28:33,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll kindly wind up with this point, Attorney Christine. 1649 04:28:33,750 --> 04:28:43,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so, sa sinabi nyo ho, si Kowa Ikfaw lamang ang may karapatan na mag-audit ng confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd, tama ho? 1650 04:28:43,520 --> 04:28:47,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based on the Joint Circular Point is the responsibility of the ICFAO. 1651 04:28:48,280 --> 04:28:56,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, si House of Representatives Committee on Justice cannot review the decisions and actions taken by the COA. Excuse 1652 04:28:56,140 --> 04:28:56,460 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: me. 1653 04:28:56,560 --> 04:28:59,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Asked and answered, counsel, only COA-ICFAO can do it. 1654 04:29:00,180 --> 04:29:03,960 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: This is another point, Your Honor. The presiding officer has rules. 1655 04:29:03,980 --> 04:29:31,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, please. Councils, please. I would consider it asked and answered. Only COA-ICFAO can and it's quite obvious. We can even take judicial notice of that as part of the law that the House does not have any power nor jurisdiction nor the Senate for that matter to review the findings of an independent Constitutional Commission which under the law she answered to can only be appealed by via petition for certiorari under 45 citing Rule 65 to the Supreme Court. Move on, counsel. 1656 04:29:32,050 --> 04:29:34,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, I will take that as an answer, Your Honor. 1657 04:29:34,210 --> 04:29:34,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes. 1658 04:29:34,590 --> 04:29:38,520 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: I was about to elaborate but... Okay, I will take that as an answer. 1659 04:29:38,640 --> 04:29:40,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court takes judicial notice and knowledge of that, counsel. 1660 04:30:07,820 --> 04:30:35,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the Senate president, we shall convene session at 4 p.m. We will try to finish with this witness the cross, redirect, recross if any, and interventions of senator-judges so that we can let Celine rest already and be done with her testimony within today, hopefully. Hopefully. So for the information of the senator-judges, session will be Called at 4 p.m. 1661 04:30:36,170 --> 04:30:37,010 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Thank you, Your Honor. 1662 04:30:39,220 --> 04:30:39,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? 1663 04:30:40,600 --> 04:30:43,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, I'm done with the cross-examination. 1664 04:30:44,060 --> 04:30:45,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Attorney Christine. 1665 04:30:46,700 --> 04:30:47,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Lorna? 1666 04:30:48,180 --> 04:30:50,240 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: With the permission of this honorable court. 1667 04:30:51,520 --> 04:30:54,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed when you're ready with your redirect counsel. 1668 04:30:56,830 --> 04:31:06,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That we're ending at 4 o'clock does not give you permission to consume the time until 4 o'clock, Attorney Lorna. We still have time for the senator-judges. Please proceed. 1669 04:31:10,240 --> 04:31:16,900 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Excuse me. I'll just remove my candy. Okay. Madam Witness, this morning, four 1670 04:31:19,460 --> 04:31:28,740 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: hours ago, you were asked, Madam Witness, about the process, the routing process in your 1671 04:31:28,740 --> 04:31:29,100 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: office. 1672 04:31:29,700 --> 04:31:54,820 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: And this was done in connection with a question on the chain of custody. on the integrity of the process. Ang tanong sa'yo, naiwanan nga ng mga dokumentong ito relevant to this liquidation of confidential funds sa office of the COA-ICPAO. 1673 04:31:55,380 --> 04:31:56,360 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1674 04:31:56,360 --> 04:31:58,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Iniwanan ni Atty. Wamil. 1675 04:31:58,700 --> 04:31:59,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1676 04:31:59,480 --> 04:32:06,900 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: And then by virtue of a directive to you by the office, you took over national agencies, correct? 1677 04:32:06,900 --> 04:32:07,680 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po. 1678 04:32:07,680 --> 04:32:13,040 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Among them, the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd. 1679 04:32:13,040 --> 04:32:14,600 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1680 04:32:14,600 --> 04:32:36,200 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: When you took over this function of evaluating the confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd, yung mga dokumentong minana mo, ito ba ay certified documents lahat ng 1681 04:32:43,140 --> 04:32:58,300 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: How are you able to ascertain na yung mga dokumentong iniwanan sa office ng ICFAO are the very same documents na tinurn over sa office ni Atty. Wamil? 1682 04:32:59,410 --> 04:33:15,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nung ibinigay po sa akin ito, at sinek ko din po yung nilalaman nito based dun sa transmittal letters po. So, nacheck ko po na kung ano yung na-audit po ni Mr. Wamil, ito rin po yung naibigay sa akin. So, walang 1683 04:33:15,490 --> 04:33:18,080 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: nadagdag na dokumento? 1684 04:33:18,080 --> 04:33:18,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 1685 04:33:18,980 --> 04:33:21,280 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Walang binawasan na dokumento? 1686 04:33:21,280 --> 04:33:22,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 1687 04:33:22,120 --> 04:33:24,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Wala kayong pinalitan, sinubstitute na dokumento? 1688 04:33:24,940 --> 04:33:25,720 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 1689 04:33:25,720 --> 04:33:38,110 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: In other words, the integrity? The completeness of all those documents left by Atty. Wamil with the Office of the ICFAO remained complete. 1690 04:33:38,110 --> 04:33:39,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, tama po. 1691 04:33:39,550 --> 04:33:47,830 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Ano naman? Ibag sabihin ng routing kasi counsel here made mention of initials. 1692 04:33:48,250 --> 04:34:09,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ano yung mga initials na yun? Yung mga initials po na nasa baba, yung sa AOM po, kung sino po yung action officer, tas sino po yung mga nag-review na division chief hanggang makadating po dun sa aming officer in charge. Kaya yun po yung mga nag-review dun sa AOM na yun. In other words, Madam Witness, 1693 04:34:09,810 --> 04:34:12,870 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: hindi lang ikaw ang nag-decide. 1694 04:34:15,440 --> 04:34:22,680 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: AOM, ng notice of suspension, at ng notice of disallowance. You are not the only person who decided. 1695 04:34:23,080 --> 04:34:34,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po kasi dumadaan po ito sa review process from the action officer to the division chief to the officer in charge ng ICVAW po. So hindi mo 1696 04:34:34,120 --> 04:34:37,530 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: lang professional judgment to. Your 1697 04:34:37,530 --> 04:34:40,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. The question is leading. 1698 04:34:41,250 --> 04:34:42,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 1699 04:34:42,800 --> 04:34:47,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Will allow it. Will allow it. I think that was already answered to by the witness earlier as well. 1700 04:34:48,320 --> 04:34:54,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, po. Okay. Ngayon, yung routing slip na yan, dun ba dumadaan ang mga dokumento? 1701 04:34:56,140 --> 04:34:57,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Okay. 1702 04:34:57,280 --> 04:34:57,740 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: At 1703 04:34:57,740 --> 04:35:09,250 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: sa mga taong minention mo, meron bang, nakalagay dyan, meron bang pwedeng idagdag? Sino ang first initial doon? Sino nga ba yung first initial doon? 1704 04:35:09,410 --> 04:35:13,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung action officer po, yung RCW, si Roderick po. 1705 04:35:13,950 --> 04:35:30,780 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: yung action officer ba yan? Eh, pwedeng magdagdag, magbawas, magsubstitute ng mga dokumento other than yung sinubmit ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd by way of liquidation ng mga document ng confidential funds? 1706 04:35:31,080 --> 04:35:32,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. Okay. 1707 04:35:32,910 --> 04:35:38,840 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: So, yung susunod doon, yung action officer, sinong susunod doon? Yung 1708 04:35:38,840 --> 04:35:41,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: division chief po. Yung 1709 04:35:41,280 --> 04:36:07,020 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: revision chief na yan, pag binigay ang dokumento at yung evaluation mo at yung action officer, darating naman sa division chief, meron bang nangyayaring misteryo dyan sa mga dokumentong from one, from you, to the action officer, to the reviewer? Your Honor, please. Meron bang dinadagdag, sinasubstitute? or pinapalitan dyan 1710 04:36:07,020 --> 04:36:07,960 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: sa mga 1711 04:36:07,960 --> 04:36:14,000 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: documents na sinasubmit ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd? 1712 04:36:14,140 --> 04:36:16,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel, respondent, what is your objection? Mr. Speaker, Your 1713 04:36:16,480 --> 04:36:16,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor, 1714 04:36:16,780 --> 04:36:18,760 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: may nangyari bang misteryo dyan? 1715 04:36:19,970 --> 04:36:20,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly reform, counsel. 1716 04:36:25,030 --> 04:36:29,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think we all know where you're headed towards, counsel. Kindly reform. You can get it from the witness. 1717 04:36:29,990 --> 04:37:01,260 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Sa mga dokumentong sinabmit ng Vice President at DepEd, After it leaves you and goes to the next person, the action officer, and then the reviewing officer, are there other documents that are allowed to be inserted there or substituted other than what was actually submitted by the office of the vice president at ng DepEd para sa liquidation? ng confidential funds. 1718 04:37:01,440 --> 04:37:06,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung mga dokumento lang po na yun, wala na pong nadagdag, walang nababawas. So, 1719 04:37:06,300 --> 04:37:27,920 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: ang tinanong, ang iniimply, sa question ng defense counsel, is a chain of custody. Eh hindi, hindi sila sigurado sa chain of custody. Your Honor, please. Your Honor, please. This is my redirection, Your Honor. She was the one who brought it up and crossed. Let the attorney go 1720 04:37:27,920 --> 04:37:28,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: on and finish, counsel. 1721 04:37:30,000 --> 04:37:40,840 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: This was brought up on cross, Your Honor, implying, and I'm asking on redirect, based on, they were the ones that brought out, who are these people here? 1722 04:37:41,140 --> 04:37:42,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed to your question, Attorney Capon. 1723 04:37:45,100 --> 04:37:57,740 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Masasabi mo ba na itong chain of custody ay may interruption ng dokumento? Meron bang substitution? Meron bang alteration? 1724 04:38:00,850 --> 04:38:05,470 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Dokumento na sinubmit ng Vice President at ang DepEd. 1725 04:38:05,630 --> 04:38:23,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po kasi yung opisina rin po namin is kami lang po yung nandon and may nakabantay po rito ng security guard 24 hours and yung document po na ito nakalagay po ito sa cabinet na nakalak. So 1726 04:38:23,230 --> 04:38:34,140 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: this COA ICFAO, ang nakakaalam lang ng mga confidential documents ay COA-ICFAO. Meron mga ibang divisions ang COA? 1727 04:38:35,310 --> 04:38:43,110 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nasa loobo kasi kami ng Office of the Chairperson, pero yung sa amin is nakatago po yung mga dokumento namin. Okay. 1728 04:38:43,730 --> 04:39:13,980 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Now, Madam Witness, you were presented with several activities at sabi ng counsel for respondent, i-enumerate niya. Itong specifically, protective intelligence operation and places of engagement. Tinanong sa'yo, pag ba ang mga security guards ng presidente in-inspect, 1729 04:39:14,630 --> 04:39:15,450 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: na 1730 04:39:15,520 --> 04:39:58,570 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: -inspect daw ang routes prior to departure and arrival of the president, of the vice president, I'm sorry, for possible threats for criminal groups? Yung mga security guards ng vice president, ini-inspect yung rota. Dadaan dito ang vice president, office of the vice president, vice president or deputy. Dadaan dito, tignan nga natin kung may komunista dito. Tignan nga natin kung may NPA dito. Tignan nga natin kung may terorista dito. Yan ba ay... Your Honor, please. I haven't finished. 1731 04:39:58,790 --> 04:39:59,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let her finish. Is that 1732 04:39:59,730 --> 04:40:05,970 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: part of... Confidential activity or confidential funds. Your Honor, 1733 04:40:06,030 --> 04:40:06,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. 1734 04:40:06,550 --> 04:40:07,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel, 1735 04:40:08,090 --> 04:40:08,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: correspondent. 1736 04:40:08,490 --> 04:40:08,630 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The 1737 04:40:08,630 --> 04:40:14,070 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: good counsel is adding facts to the question. Can she not cite the exact wordings, Your Honor? 1738 04:40:14,390 --> 04:40:15,330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 1739 04:40:15,930 --> 04:40:17,270 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: This is three direct. 1740 04:40:17,590 --> 04:40:18,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You opened 1741 04:40:18,150 --> 04:40:19,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the door, counsel. She can refer 1742 04:40:19,230 --> 04:40:23,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to the record, Your Honor. Counsel, you opened the door. You said, 1743 04:40:23,350 --> 04:40:29,290 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: in fact, you asked her, is this part of the, Your Honor, please. Is this part of the regular... 1744 04:40:29,290 --> 04:40:29,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, correspondent, 1745 04:40:29,550 --> 04:40:36,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please. You read parts of the PIOR. 1746 04:40:39,900 --> 04:40:40,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But 1747 04:40:40,420 --> 04:40:43,260 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please, she can just refer to the records. 1748 04:40:43,680 --> 04:40:52,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which includes NPA, terrorist groups, and in fact mentions the word criminalities, which I'm not so sure about. But criminalities, correct? She 1749 04:40:52,260 --> 04:40:54,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: said that. So 1750 04:40:54,300 --> 04:41:03,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the question is, you mentioned earlier that these are part of confidential functions, not regular functions of the OVP. Correct? 1751 04:41:03,560 --> 04:41:09,160 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: That was the question of counsel for respondent. 1752 04:41:09,180 --> 04:41:12,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Exactly. She responded to that answer. Now, what is your question? My 1753 04:41:12,060 --> 04:41:23,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: question here is, etong office of the Vice President, eh, na-confirm mo na may confidential funds? 1754 04:41:23,060 --> 04:41:24,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, meron po. 1755 04:41:24,280 --> 04:41:36,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: But in the Commission on Audit, outside Koa Ikfaw, Are you aware that the office of the vice president has funds outside the confidential funds, her confidential funds? 1756 04:41:37,950 --> 04:41:43,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nasa part na po yun ng regular audit. Ang sa ikfaw lang po is yung sa confidential funds. So 1757 04:41:43,190 --> 04:41:50,930 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: nasa, she has, you're saying that the vice president, OVP, the deputy secretary has funds. Your 1758 04:41:50,930 --> 04:41:51,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. 1759 04:41:52,110 --> 04:41:52,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Already 1760 04:41:52,630 --> 04:41:53,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answered, counsel. 1761 04:41:53,790 --> 04:42:01,910 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: She answered. Misleading, Your Honor. She didn't say that, that they have funds. She said she has no knowledge because that is not the scope of 1762 04:42:01,910 --> 04:42:04,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: her audit. She said, Your Honor, that 1763 04:42:04,510 --> 04:42:05,990 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: there are funds 1764 04:42:05,990 --> 04:42:11,270 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: subject of regular audit. Regular funds of the Vice 1765 04:42:11,270 --> 04:42:23,510 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: President herself. And this is subject, Madam Witness, to regular audit. And being subject to regular audit, it is not part of the COA-ICFAO confidential funds audit, correct? 1766 04:42:25,740 --> 04:42:37,130 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Would you know that the office of the Vice President has regular funds or special funds for security personnel? Are 1767 04:42:37,130 --> 04:42:44,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: you aware of that, Madam Witness? Dahil nga po ang sa amin lang is confidential fund, hindi po ako aware dun sa regular funds po ng OBP. 1768 04:42:45,630 --> 04:42:46,190 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Regular 1769 04:42:46,190 --> 04:43:02,470 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: funds, the security personnel, and it is here in your circular. It says salaries for staff. is not part of the allowable expense of confidential funds, correct? 1770 04:43:03,280 --> 04:43:11,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: You mentioned that before. Nasa 4.11 po yung mga hindi dapat magamitan ng CF at IF. 1771 04:43:14,690 --> 04:43:25,240 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Salaries, wages, overtime, additional compensation, allowances, etc. of government, of 1772 04:43:26,790 --> 04:43:59,090 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Salaries, benefits, additional compensation, allowance, or other benefits of officials and employees who are employed by the government in whatever capacity, or elected officials, except when authorized by law. The office of the Vice President, it is of public knowledge that the office of the Vice President has no less than 300 400 security guards. Are you aware of that? Public knowledge. 1773 04:43:59,870 --> 04:44:01,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Narinig ko po sa news. 1774 04:44:01,790 --> 04:44:15,020 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes. And if the security guards are being paid salaries, should these salaries be debited or reimbursed 1775 04:44:15,020 --> 04:44:22,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: from confidential funds? Yung salaries po eh hindi po siya pwedeng i-charge sa confidential funds. Okay. So 1776 04:44:22,320 --> 04:44:25,320 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: itong activity na sinabi na 1777 04:44:26,820 --> 04:44:27,540 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: To 1778 04:44:27,990 --> 04:44:53,380 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: check. Securities. To check. Surveillance. Surveillance doubt. To surveillance. To make surveillance of the roots of the Vice President when she arrives to an engagement, when she leaves to an engagement, when she attends engagements, Christmas parties. Whatever. 1779 04:44:53,560 --> 04:44:54,760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, respondent, yes. 1780 04:44:54,920 --> 04:44:57,680 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please. I haven't finished yet. 1781 04:44:57,680 --> 04:44:57,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 1782 04:44:59,000 --> 04:45:31,790 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: And counsel mentioned ocular inspection and casing of venue prior to activity. Now, prior to an activity, should this be part Madam Witness, if this is a function being done by her personal security guards, should this be considered as part of confidential funds activity, Your Honor, this clearing the road? 1783 04:45:32,660 --> 04:45:33,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 1784 04:45:34,020 --> 04:45:35,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel. The 1785 04:45:35,260 --> 04:45:43,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: report does not say that it was done by the security guards, Your Honor. There's nothing in there. I'm asking her now, Your Honor. That's asking for an opinion. 1786 04:45:44,340 --> 04:46:07,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's clarify one thing first. The Vice President has no security guards. She has a VPSG, Vice Presidential Security Group, which was, I think, later on placed under the Presidential Security Command, under the unified command of the Presidential Security Command. Yes, Your Honor, 1787 04:46:07,710 --> 04:46:08,310 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: I will reform. 1788 04:46:08,630 --> 04:46:09,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If it 1789 04:46:09,930 --> 04:46:47,600 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: is the VPSG. that does this activity of coat, ocular inspection, casing of the venue, clearing of routes prior to arrival and departure, would that be reimbursable if they are paid separately from another fund? Can that be part of the liquidation of confidential funds, Madam Witness. Your Honor, please. 1790 04:46:48,240 --> 04:46:49,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel, respondent. 1791 04:46:49,860 --> 04:46:59,420 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The witness is incompetent to answer that because that liquidation report does not state that this work paid to the VP-SPG. If 1792 04:46:59,420 --> 04:47:02,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: she knows, counsel, if she knows. Celine, if you know. 1793 04:47:16,500 --> 04:47:44,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Judge, the VP does have a complement and they're called Vice VP SPG. You're aware of that, Madam Witness, and as you said, public knowledge that she has something like 400. My question to you is... And you already confirmed that the VP herself has funds outside these confidential funds. Your 1794 04:47:44,940 --> 04:47:53,880 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. Yes, Counsel. Ms. Liding, Your Honor, she did not say that she confirmed that there were funds of the VP outside of the confidential funds. 1795 04:47:53,880 --> 04:48:19,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyway, Counsel, the Senate passes the budget of all the offices of government and we are well aware that the office of the Vice President has... Other funds. We need not belabor the point on objections from either side. We are aware of the existence of other funds of the Office of the Vice President as well as the DepEd. In fact, the DepEd is the highest budgetary allocation in any GAAP. 1796 04:48:19,380 --> 04:48:20,600 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please, if I may. 1797 04:48:20,600 --> 04:48:21,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Continue, counsel. 1798 04:48:21,380 --> 04:48:35,420 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Yes, if I may, Your Honor. Counsel keeps objecting to my questions, but she herself was the one who brought it up in the first page. of her own exhibit, it says here, and you asked the question, she asked the question, Mr. 1799 04:48:37,900 --> 04:48:38,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Presiding 1800 04:48:38,460 --> 04:48:53,940 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Judge, Your Honor. She says, what does this scope, this report, quote-unquote, you read this, she read this, Mr. Presiding Judge. Move on, counsel. The scope pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of the VPSPG. 1801 04:48:55,900 --> 04:48:56,460 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: VPSPG. 1802 04:48:58,970 --> 04:49:10,770 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: in terms of the protective intelligence during the engagement of Vice President Sara Duterte for the first quarter. So, these activities are the activities of the VPSPG. 1803 04:49:10,770 --> 04:49:13,570 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Move on, counsel, yes, the chair already ruled in your favor. So she 1804 04:49:13,570 --> 04:49:23,480 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: can answer, Your Honor? Yes, yes, move forward, counsel. Can you answer that question? If, as stated there, these are activities of the VPSPG. 1805 04:49:26,420 --> 04:49:39,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the personal engagements of the Vice President, is this a proper matter? Is this proper liquidation of the confidential funds of the Vice President? 1806 04:49:39,920 --> 04:49:41,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under the Joint Circular, po, 1807 04:49:41,680 --> 04:49:50,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: yung confidential funds should only be used dun sa allowable expenses under an item 4.8 of the Joint Circular, po. 1808 04:49:51,130 --> 04:49:54,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You did not answer the question, Sailene. Yes or no? 1809 04:49:56,430 --> 04:49:58,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pa-clarify ulit yung tanong? 1810 04:49:59,820 --> 04:50:23,250 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Kasama ba sa proper liquidation ang personal engagements ng Vice President at ang bayad or the payment of compensation for the VPSPG for her activities relating to 1811 04:50:24,990 --> 04:50:27,590 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: personal activities of the Vice President. 1812 04:50:27,930 --> 04:50:32,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung yung personal activities po, hindi siya chargeable to confidential funds. 1813 04:50:32,710 --> 04:50:33,190 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. 1814 04:50:33,820 --> 04:50:34,960 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Now, Madam Witness, 1815 04:50:35,440 --> 04:50:36,860 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: counsel 1816 04:50:40,930 --> 04:50:49,920 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: asked you earlier about the mandate of the COA and you are competent to testify on it. Okay. Correct? Apo. 1817 04:50:50,980 --> 04:50:51,580 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Now, 1818 04:50:51,700 --> 04:51:34,430 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: I will tell you about, I will ask you about the mandate. The mandate of the Vice President. Kasama ba sa mandato ng isang Vice President? And I will read you the Constitution. Performs executive, ceremonial, and social services functions collaborating with stakeholders of organizations in both private and public sectors to develop and promote programs for the uplift of the Filipinos. In your opinion and your professional judgment, kasama ba sa mandato ng isang vice president ang confidential operations? 1819 04:51:35,970 --> 04:51:40,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung base po dun sa nakalagay sa mandato nila, hindi po. Hindi po. 1820 04:51:42,340 --> 04:51:45,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Punta rin naman tayo sa DepEd. 1821 04:51:48,170 --> 04:52:08,550 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: DepEd, nakalagay sa batas, is in charge of basic, elementary, and secondary education. That's the function. Kasama ba sa mandato ng isang Secretary of the Department of Education ang confidential activities? 1822 04:52:08,710 --> 04:52:13,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based po dun sa mandato nila, hindi po. Okay. And 1823 04:52:13,440 --> 04:52:25,000 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: yet, itong Vice President Sara Duterte ay binigyan. Binigyan ng confidential funds. Tama? 1824 04:52:26,730 --> 04:52:29,710 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, may budget po sila ng confidential fund. 1825 04:52:29,850 --> 04:52:34,870 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Magkano'ng budget? Again, magkano'ng budget ng vice president sa confidential funds? 1826 04:52:35,330 --> 04:53:11,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Noong fourth quarter po ng 2022, 125 million. And yung first to fourth quarter ng 23, 500 million po. Pero ang nakuha lang po nila sa 23 is 375 million. And then sa DepEd naman po, 150 million pero ang na-cash advance lang po is 137.7, 112.5 million. Okay. 1827 04:53:11,610 --> 04:53:38,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let us now go to, so tama ka wala sa mandato both ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd ang confidential activities. Now let's go to yung sinabi ng counsel for the respondent na quoted from the fires, itong report na sinabmit. Meron siyang sinabing activity. 1828 04:53:43,460 --> 04:53:44,400 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The 1829 04:53:44,400 --> 04:53:51,240 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: activities read, Madam Witness, for the first quarter were 1830 04:53:53,070 --> 04:55:21,450 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: from pertain to January 2. to January 10 of 2023 for the first fire. Okay, first report, January 2 to January 10, 2023. Pero sa pagkaalam natin, and please confirm, on that date, On this period, January 2 to 10, na napakabahaban ng binasa na activities ng counsel for respondent, wala pang confidential funds ang office of the Vice President. During that period, January 2 to 10, and yet, Madam Witness, she is now saying that these activities Well, according to counsel, that these activities for January 2 to 10 cited in this report are by way of liquidation for confidential funds. Paano nangyari yan? Can you explain to us, Madam Witness? How is it possible that a Vice President is claiming liquidation for activities before? February 6, the period for which she was given these confidential funds, January 2 to 10. Did you note this in your report? 1831 04:55:22,310 --> 04:55:29,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po siya nakasama sa report kasi yung P.I.O.R. is sinubmit nila to support the payment of rewards po. 1832 04:55:29,690 --> 04:56:04,260 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. Let us now go. But based on this document, the activities cited by counsel were for a period. prior to receipt of the confidential funds that President said, this is in liquidation of the confidential funds I received. Going now to my next point, Madam Witness, allowed ba ito? Parang the activities, Christmas party, tree planting, 1833 04:56:08,850 --> 04:56:20,810 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: What's this? Council meetings, acceptance of awards, rewards, etc. Are these, by nature, are these part of confidential funds activity? 1834 04:56:21,490 --> 04:56:35,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung under the joint circular po, yung allowable lang po na ma-charge sa confidential fund is yung enumeration sa item 4.8 po. At hindi ito enumerated doon. Hindi po nakasama yung nabanggit po ninyong activity. Pero 1835 04:56:35,090 --> 04:56:46,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: napakabait naman ng Presidente. Yung giving of Vice President, giving of medicines, giving of groceries, giving of ayuda. 1836 04:56:49,560 --> 04:56:57,280 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Hindi ba magandang activities yan para sa isang Vice President? Your Honor, 1837 04:56:57,340 --> 04:56:57,580 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: please. 1838 04:56:57,980 --> 04:56:59,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm asking preliminary, Your Honor. 1839 04:57:01,790 --> 04:57:04,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's hear the counsel for respondent. Yes. 1840 04:57:04,670 --> 04:57:12,640 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, that's misleading question. And asking for an opinion. Hindi ba maganda yan sa isang vice president? 1841 04:57:13,320 --> 04:57:17,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sustained. Modify counsel. Your Honor, please. I 1842 04:57:17,380 --> 04:57:30,700 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: will reform, Your Honor. This tree planting, this Christmas funds, this giving of assistance, giving of grocery, grieving of medicines, are these funds 1843 04:57:32,680 --> 04:58:11,570 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: If properly accounted for, could they be gotten from either the president's social services fund or for what you said, there is another audit unit that audits her regular funds. Could the president, if you know, could the vice president have gotten... all of this funding from her regular or social amelioration funds instead of the confidential funds which you said must be strictly complied with. 1844 04:58:12,030 --> 04:58:13,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, respondent? 1845 04:58:13,390 --> 04:58:18,070 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: That calls for an opinion, Your Honor. She should have gotten it from amelioration funds. 1846 04:58:18,170 --> 04:58:18,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's let it continue, Your 1847 04:58:19,190 --> 04:58:21,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor, if she knows, counsel. Celine, if you 1848 04:58:21,790 --> 04:58:21,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: know. 1849 04:58:23,630 --> 04:58:30,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung yung paggagamitan po is yung nabanggit nyo na activity, hindi po siya chargeable sa confidential fund po. 1850 04:58:32,430 --> 04:58:35,750 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Now, Madam Witness, you 1851 04:58:36,070 --> 04:58:38,170 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: said 1852 04:58:41,300 --> 04:58:44,960 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: that you 1853 04:58:52,030 --> 04:58:52,190 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: were 1854 04:58:54,500 --> 04:58:56,220 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: shown 1855 04:58:58,850 --> 04:59:59,400 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: You were asked by counsel for respondent certain activities and she mentioned 4.8.6 which are among the activities that should be covered by confidential funds. To uncover 4.8.6, to uncover and prevent illegal activities that pose a clear and present danger to the agency personnel, property or other facilities under the resources. And using this provision, counsel for respondent wants this provision to justify the expenses of the vice president as listed illegal activity of communist national terrorist. But I will read to you, Madam Witness, the portion that... 1856 05:00:02,010 --> 05:00:14,510 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Intentionally omitted. Because this provision, and please check your circular, could you read the last portion of 4.8.6? 1857 05:00:16,540 --> 05:00:21,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Then in coordination with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. In 1858 05:00:21,540 --> 05:01:24,210 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: other words, Madam Witness, this particular provision says, yes, it is correct. It is proper to use confidential funds to uncover, prevent illegal activities that pose clear and present danger. That is correct, but there is another requirement that counsel intentionally did not read and that is that it must be done in coordination with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. My question to you, Madam Witness, in all the submissions of the Office of the Vice President or the DepEd as regards this uncovering and preventing illegal activities, did any of the submissions of the Vice President indicate Which government agency they coordinated with as regards this uncovering or preventing of illegal activities? 1859 05:01:24,730 --> 05:01:25,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 1860 05:01:25,630 --> 05:01:26,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel for responding. 1861 05:01:26,450 --> 05:01:32,070 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: The submissions of the President would answer that question, Your Honor. Vice President, Counsel. Vice President, sorry. 1862 05:01:33,680 --> 05:01:38,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It was all submitted to Silene. Let Silene answer. Silene. 1863 05:01:40,080 --> 05:01:42,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Were there any submissions that it 1864 05:01:42,700 --> 05:01:43,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was 1865 05:01:43,180 --> 05:01:46,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: coordinated with their respective law enforcement agencies? 1866 05:01:46,440 --> 05:02:00,920 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Meron bang sinubmit na dokumento ang Office of the Vice President na, Madam Coa, ito po yung mga government agency na kasama namin na nag-implement nitong surveillance, nag-implement nitong 1867 05:02:02,630 --> 05:02:23,510 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: nag-implement nitong binigay naming information para uncovering and preventing illegal activities. Meron bang listahan o dokumento na sinubmit ng Office of the Vice President or ng DepEd showing precisely the appropriate law enforcement agencies they collaborated with? 1868 05:02:24,110 --> 05:02:30,690 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa DepEd po, yung sa certification ng AFP to support the payment of rewards, may nakalagay po doon na coordination. 1869 05:02:32,060 --> 05:02:35,440 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Certification lang. Okay. Sa Office of the Vice President. 1870 05:02:36,380 --> 05:02:49,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po, meron po ang nakalagay na doon sa PIORs nila, nakalagay po doon kung kanino sila naki-coordinate po. Meron doon sa PIORs yung details. Sino-sino ang mga 1871 05:02:49,000 --> 05:03:18,860 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: national agencies na to? At more important, ano ang evidence of success? Ano ang connection ng coordination? or pag-cooperate ng OVP or DepEd sa success na sinabi mo na another requirement, an important requirement in the liquidation of confidential funds. Meron bang dokumentos showing the success of this collaboration with the government agencies? 1872 05:03:19,460 --> 05:03:19,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's a 1873 05:03:19,780 --> 05:03:38,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: compounded question, counsel. If I may. Sabi nyo sa DPED, may dokumento nagpapakita may coordination sa AFP. Sa Office of the Vice President, may dokumento ba nagpapakita ng koordinasyon sa law enforcement agencies? Sabi nyo, oo. At kung maalala ko, Seline, local police, di ba? 1874 05:03:38,560 --> 05:03:41,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, nakalagay po dun sa PIORs nila. 1875 05:03:41,380 --> 05:03:53,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now, it's a compound question because now council is asking you, what is the proof of success of these coordinative efforts with law enforcement agencies? May prueba ba ng tagumpay? nung mga operasyon n'yo. 1876 05:03:53,860 --> 05:04:12,180 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun pong sa DepEd po, kinonsider ko po as documents evidencing success yung sa certification ng AFP. Yung sa OBP po, yun po yung hindi na hinanapan ko pa ng additional documentation na nagpapakita ng success. 1877 05:04:12,660 --> 05:04:14,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Particular dun sa portion na nagbayad ng reward. 1878 05:04:15,200 --> 05:04:16,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Hindi 1879 05:04:16,160 --> 05:04:16,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa impormasyon. 1880 05:04:17,060 --> 05:04:17,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. Tama. 1881 05:04:20,400 --> 05:04:21,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Madam 1882 05:04:21,920 --> 05:05:03,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness, Also, counsel referred you to 6.2.3, which is liquidation of cash advances for confidential funds. At binasa niya isa-isa, nagsubmit ng, ito, liquidation report, nagsubmit naman, certified copy, etc., of disbursement vouchers, evidence of documents, physical financial plan, lahat nang binasa. Dito sa 6.2.3 ay sinabi ng counsel for the respondent ay sinubmit naman. Eh kung compliance, post-audit compliance ang COA-ICPAO. 1883 05:05:03,690 --> 05:05:04,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung 1884 05:05:04,230 --> 05:05:26,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinubmit naman itong mga dokumento, bakit meron pa rin AOM? Bakit may AOM leading to notice of suspension, leading to notice of disallowance if in fact As counsel for respondent suggests, hey, kumpleto naman kami ng submissions. 1885 05:05:27,710 --> 05:06:02,150 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based on the evaluation of each document po, may mga nakita po doon na hindi compliant with the Joint Circular po. And kagaya ng, ano, just very briefly. Yun po, gaya yung sa... OBP po yung payment of rewards which were not supported with documents evidencing success and yung mga purchases po na hinahingan ko ng other documents that deemed necessary in the audit po. And meron nga din po dun sa ND ng 2023 na reimbursement which is hindi rin po siya compliant with the Joint Circular. 1886 05:06:03,050 --> 05:06:03,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, 1887 05:06:03,770 --> 05:06:04,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yung 1888 05:06:04,090 --> 05:06:15,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinasabi na mali kayo, sinabi nyo non-compliant, eh, kumpleto naman ang checklist. Hindi tama yun ang sinasabi mo, Madam Witness. 1889 05:06:15,960 --> 05:06:24,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Meron pong nasabik na dokumento pero after the evaluation of each document po, hindi pa rin po siya compliant with the Joint Circular. 1890 05:06:24,860 --> 05:07:23,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's go now to the last 6.2.3 na again, hindi na namang kinote ng 6.2.3.7 refers to other supporting documents the ICVAW deems necessary for the proper evaluation of liquidation documents submitted. What does this mean, other liquidation documents? Ang iniimply ng Office of the Vice President at DepEd Councils na Kasi sinabi n'yo, limited to the documents. Are you constrained? Kayo ba ay bawal tumingin o humingi pa ng iba pang dokumento para patunayan ang tinatawag na supporting documents na inaakalan n'yo yung kailangan or necessary para sa proper evaluation ng liquidation documents submitted. 1891 05:07:25,120 --> 05:07:32,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede po kami humingi ng additional documents na makakatulong sa amin sa pag-evaluate po ng liquidation ng confidential. 1892 05:07:32,620 --> 05:07:34,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kagaya ng ano? Ano itong other 1893 05:07:34,220 --> 05:07:35,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: supporting documents? 1894 05:07:35,860 --> 05:07:50,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Gaya nga po yung hiningi ko dun sa purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid. Yun pong receipts and sales invoice po to ascertain na talagang pinambili ito ng supplies and food and medical aid. At 1895 05:07:50,440 --> 05:08:13,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinabihan n'yo sila, noong humingi kayo ng other supporting documents, mga ORs, mga sales invoice, nagsubmit ba ang OVP at ang DepEd nang hinihingi n'yong other documents deemed necessary for the proper evaluation of the liquidation documents submitted? Nagsubmit ba sila? 1896 05:08:13,960 --> 05:08:20,800 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Part po ito nung notice of disallowance na nandod pa sila sa period prescribed po para mag-appeal sa commission proper. 1897 05:08:22,930 --> 05:08:41,580 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Itong ano, itong ngayon, sinabi mo, you were confronted with your tabulation and your summaries na wala naman nakalagay na pangalan doon. Ang nakalagay lang doon, dates tsaka amounts. 1898 05:08:41,580 --> 05:08:42,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1899 05:08:42,420 --> 05:08:43,730 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Correct? 1900 05:08:43,730 --> 05:08:44,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1901 05:08:44,730 --> 05:08:56,990 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. And in particular, merong pinakita sa'yo, as part of your summary, merong mga acknowledgement receipts doon na ang date ay iisa lang. 1902 05:08:56,990 --> 05:08:57,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 1903 05:08:57,590 --> 05:09:04,670 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: And but disbursed, disbursed in one day. Nakalaga yun? Disbursed in one day? Tama? 1904 05:09:05,070 --> 05:09:07,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung kahapon po, opo. Okay. Ngayon. 1905 05:09:09,530 --> 05:10:12,150 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: In your joint circular, Kasi pinag-usap, in relation to that, pinag-usapan rin, Atty. Wamil, and now you confirm, pinag-usapan rin ang observation na mahina, mahina ang internal controls ng Office of the VP at ng DepEd. And patunayan dyan, eh, meron disbursement officer allegedly nag-disburse ng several amounts in several places. Na-mention, in fact, Sinabi ko Superman, pero sabi ng Presiding Officer, physical impossibility na lang ang gamitin niya. The physical impossibility of an authorized special disbursement officer to distribute all of these funds in one day, based on your opinion, professional opinion, does this indicate what they refer to as lapse of internal controls? 1906 05:10:26,540 --> 05:10:35,880 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, kasi under the Joint Circular, it's the responsibility ng head of agency to institute sound and effective internal control. 1907 05:10:36,240 --> 05:11:37,900 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: And when the head of agency, in this instance, the Vice President, says to the SDO, to ilagan. Pag sinabi ng Vice President or DepEd, who is the head of agency? Ikaw, special disbursement officer. Huwag ikaw ang mag-disburse. Ibigay mo yan sa security guard, sa security personnel. Ibigay mo yan pag disburse. Huwag na ikaw. Ibigay mo sa security personnel knowing. or she ought to know, she knows or ought to know as head of agency and as a lawyer, knows or ought to know that the person expressly authorized by law is the only person authorized to disburse public funds. Tama ba yan? Is that an indication of tight internal controls? 1908 05:11:38,320 --> 05:11:39,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 1909 05:11:40,770 --> 05:11:42,410 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Going now to... 1910 05:12:04,010 --> 05:12:32,180 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: As I mentioned earlier, pinakitahan ka ng counsel for the respondent ng mga payors, documents, listing activities prior to the receipt of the confidential funds. Okay. What now would your assessment, what would COA's assessment be under the Joint Circular? 1911 05:12:34,570 --> 05:12:37,030 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: What will your assessment be? Allowed ba ito? 1912 05:12:37,110 --> 05:12:48,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under po kasi sa joint circular, kung itong expenses is before the cash advance, ito'y reimbursement, which is a violation po ng item 6.1. 1913 05:12:56,720 --> 05:13:10,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under po sa Joint Circular, yung sa 6.1.2, sabi po dito, in no case shall cash advance for CFN or IF be utilized as reimbursement of the expenses prior to the granting of the cash advance. 1914 05:13:10,340 --> 05:13:10,740 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Okay. 1915 05:13:10,740 --> 05:13:14,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: So, these are disallowed expenses. And 1916 05:13:14,060 --> 05:13:29,520 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: yet, knowing, knowing that hindi naman covered ito ng kinash advance nila na confidential funds, sinubmit. pala nila. Ano yan? Palagay ko. Ano yan? 1917 05:13:31,260 --> 05:13:44,700 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Palusot ba yan? They're trying to get reimbursement or trying to use activities not covered by the specific period to justify the liquidation of confidential funds. 1918 05:13:47,100 --> 05:13:49,500 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Conclusion of fact, Your Honor, palusot ba yan? 1919 05:13:50,340 --> 05:13:50,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That 1920 05:13:50,980 --> 05:13:51,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is my... 1921 05:13:54,700 --> 05:14:05,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Councils, please. We're like on both sides. I think most of the questions being asked have already been answered by the witness repeatedly. 1922 05:14:07,060 --> 05:14:28,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly move to your next point, Atty. Gaponan, if you have other points for redirect. so that we can wind up also with every cross and proceed to interjection so that we can finish with this witness. We're going around repeatedly already on the same conclusions of the witness based on her findings. Kindly move on, counsel, please. 1923 05:14:29,870 --> 05:14:42,070 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Your Honor, please, as I said earlier, the start of this impeachment, one of the rules of cross-examination and direct examination or redirect is to know when to stop. This is where I stop, Your Honor. Thank you. Thank 1924 05:14:42,070 --> 05:14:42,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you very much, counsel. 1925 05:14:44,560 --> 05:14:47,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Council for the Respondent, Rick Ross. Okay, 1926 05:14:47,520 --> 05:15:30,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Rick Ross. Seline, kanina tinanong ka about the VPSPG, receiving rewards from the OVP. kung ito nga ba ay nangyayari at kung bawal ito under the JC. And sinabi mo na bawal ho yan, di ba? Sabi mo kanina. Okay, may finding ba kayo sa notices of these allowances n'yo, both first and second notices, na yung VPSPG ay nagre-receive ng payments for reward and purchase of information from the confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President? May findings 1927 05:15:30,030 --> 05:15:34,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: mo na ganun? Under the Joint Circular nga po, tama na. Yung payment of rewards hindi. 1928 05:15:34,760 --> 05:15:34,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Please, 1929 05:15:35,000 --> 05:15:38,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. Kindly answer the question again. The question is simple. 1930 05:15:38,520 --> 05:15:39,450 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. Wala. 1931 05:15:39,450 --> 05:15:52,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: How about sa DepEd? May findings ba kayo na yung VPSPG tumatanggap ng rewards and payment for purchase of information from the confidential funds of the DepEd? 1932 05:15:52,200 --> 05:15:53,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala din po. 1933 05:15:53,700 --> 05:16:27,780 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. So, kanina, tinanong ka about sa mandate ng OVP at DepEd, no? At tinanong din na ating Good Counsel kung ito bang si OVP under its mandate, allowed ba itong mag-receive ng confidential funds to which you said mukhang hindi ho. Noong 2022, the fourth quarter of 2022, Alam mo ba ninyo na in-approve ng Office of the President ang confidential funds ng OVP? 1934 05:16:28,850 --> 05:16:34,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based po sa mga documents na nasubmit sa amin, meron pong approval. Noong 2023, 1935 05:16:35,130 --> 05:16:43,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: nasa General Appropriations Act po yung confidential funds ng OVP. Tama po? Based 1936 05:16:43,430 --> 05:16:43,570 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po 1937 05:16:43,570 --> 05:16:43,710 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: sa 1938 05:16:43,710 --> 05:16:46,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: mga submissions sa amin, nasa GAAP po. 1939 05:16:46,210 --> 05:16:54,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. In short, ito po ay in-approve ng ating Congress, yung GAA. Tama po? 1940 05:16:54,300 --> 05:16:55,520 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1941 05:16:55,520 --> 05:17:02,320 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. Does the JC prohibit the Office of the Vice President from receiving confidential funds? 1942 05:17:03,440 --> 05:17:07,800 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nakalagay po sa JC yung mga agencies na may... 1943 05:17:07,800 --> 05:17:18,220 Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan: Just answer my question, Direk. Simple lang naman ho. May prohibisyon ho ba sa JC on the Office of the Vice President receiving confidential funds? 1944 05:17:19,040 --> 05:17:20,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. Wala. 1945 05:17:20,160 --> 05:17:27,660 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: About the Department of Education, may pinagbabawal ba yung JC na makareceive ito ng confidential funds yung DepEd? 1946 05:17:27,660 --> 05:17:29,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Based sa JC po, wala po. 1947 05:17:29,440 --> 05:17:29,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 1948 05:17:31,320 --> 05:17:32,040 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay. 1949 05:17:35,250 --> 05:18:06,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, tinanong ko kayo kanina about the OVP or the SDO, in that regard, disbursing monies in one day. in several places. Sinabi ko, isang araw, madaming mga pinag-gastusan, isang date lang yun, iba-ibang lugar. May findings po ba nito sa first ending ninyo? Wala po kasi we presume 1950 05:18:06,800 --> 05:18:09,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: regularity po doon sa transaction po. 1951 05:18:09,100 --> 05:18:09,340 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, 1952 05:18:09,340 --> 05:18:19,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: thank you. How about sa second ending po ninyo? May findings po ba nito? Dahil nga po nag-base kami sa certification under oath ng SDO, wala po. Okay. 1953 05:18:20,060 --> 05:18:21,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so... 1954 05:18:21,180 --> 05:18:22,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 1955 05:18:22,770 --> 05:18:26,030 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, Your Honor, I'm done, Your Honor. Thank you, 1956 05:18:26,050 --> 05:18:43,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. We now move. Hopefully, we can finish with Cylene today. Cylene, with your patience and indulgence. Senator Padilla. Is he here? Not here? Senator Ontiveros, then, for her interjections. 1957 05:18:45,060 --> 05:18:57,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the kind indulgence of Senator Ontiveros, Senator Padilla just arrived. Senator Padilla. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. You may proceed when you're ready. Maraming salamat po, ginong Tagapamahal ng Hukom. 1958 05:18:59,590 --> 05:19:05,310 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Sa ating saksi, kayo po ay taga-Bagyo? 1959 05:19:06,110 --> 05:19:07,250 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, Your Honor. 1960 05:19:07,590 --> 05:19:08,910 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Saan po kayo sa Bagyo? 1961 05:19:10,380 --> 05:19:11,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Irizan po. 1962 05:19:11,380 --> 05:19:16,840 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Irizan. Opo. Ako po ay taga-Bagyo din. Saan po kayo nag-graduate? Sa St. 1963 05:19:16,940 --> 05:19:18,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Louis University po. 1964 05:19:18,200 --> 05:19:51,540 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ay, alumnus po ako niyan. Sa Boys High po ako. Dahil po dyan, hindi ko nalang po kayo pahihirapan. Tayo nalang po ay maging magkababayan nalang sa Baguio. Gusto ko lamang pong magbigay ng informasyon nalang sa inyo. Opo kasi naririnig ko yung pag-uusap nyo ng prosecution at ng defense tungkol doon sa success nung confidential fund. Ako po ay may mga ibibigay na information sa inyo. 1965 05:19:53,430 --> 05:20:03,510 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: pwede po kayong magsabi na lang ng oo o hindi kung naiintindihan po ninyo. Alam ko naman naiintindihan mo, taga Baguio kayo. Opo, noon pong pinag-uusapan natin yung 1966 05:20:05,980 --> 05:20:24,780 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: patungkol sa mga terorista na pag-uusapan po lagi ang ating vicepresidente. Ang ating pong vicepresidente, magmula 2016 hanggang 2022, siya po ay naging mayor. Alam niyo po ba iyon? 1967 05:20:26,280 --> 05:20:27,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, Mayor ng Davao. 1968 05:20:28,040 --> 05:20:47,850 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Yan, opo. Sa Davao po, meron po dyan na-identify na 55 na mga tinatawag na alternative at yung mga lumad schools na infiltrated ng terrorism. Nabalitaan nyo po ba yun? 1969 05:20:49,110 --> 05:20:55,630 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po ako gaano na, hindi ko po gaano na napakinggan po yun. Hindi po ako aware doon. 1970 05:20:55,710 --> 05:21:18,040 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo. At alam niyo po ba rin na noong 2016 hanggang 2022 hanggang 2023, 12% po ng mga NPA rebels, surrenderees, were minors, 12 to 17 years old. 1971 05:21:20,480 --> 05:21:22,640 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po ako aware dun po. 1972 05:21:23,160 --> 05:21:26,640 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Maubos na po yung aking second round na lang po ako. Salamat kabayan. 1973 05:21:27,730 --> 05:21:35,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Ontiveros is recognized for her interjections. You have two minutes, ma'am. You may proceed. 1974 05:21:42,250 --> 05:22:00,710 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Ms. Witness, Ms. Silene, kahit pa po walang confidential at intelligence funds ang OVP, may budget naman po ang VPSG para sa security ng lahat ng vicepresidente, di po ba? 1975 05:22:02,950 --> 05:22:08,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Under po sila ng AFP. Under 1976 05:22:08,930 --> 05:22:26,870 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: ng AFP. Ngayon, tatlong taon na pong walang intelligence and confidential funds ang OVP. Kung alam nyo, may VPSG pa naman pong naka-assign sa kanila para bantayan yung kanyang siguridad, diba? 1977 05:22:27,620 --> 05:22:37,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa pagkakaalam ko po, nabanggit po kanina ni presiding officer na punta siya sa PSC, Presidential Security Command po. 1978 05:22:38,220 --> 05:22:38,880 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. 1979 05:22:39,900 --> 05:22:40,820 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Ngayon, 1980 05:22:40,820 --> 05:22:57,900 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: iyong mga activities na nandoon sa mga Protective Intelligence Operations Reports na pinakita kanina, may binigay bang mga ebidensya ang OVP? para patunayan na ginastusan nga po nila ang bawat isa nun. 1981 05:22:59,100 --> 05:23:06,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po kasi in-attach lang po nila yun as proof of success of information gathering and surveillance activities. 1982 05:23:07,310 --> 05:23:07,990 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. 1983 05:23:09,900 --> 05:23:19,220 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Na ayon sa inyo kanina ay hindi pa sasapat dun sa hinahanap n'yong mga proofs of success dun sa intelligence gathering activities na iyon. 1984 05:23:19,520 --> 05:23:21,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Okay. 1985 05:23:23,400 --> 05:23:42,820 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Ngayon, sa iba namang mga acknowledgement receipts, may nakalagay na purchase of medical and food aid at dati naman medicines. May resibo po ba silang ibinigay para ipakita na talagang ang binayaran o ang binili ay yung mga gamot o yung mga pagkain na iyan? 1986 05:23:43,340 --> 05:23:48,820 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po silang inattach na any receipts po or sales invoice. Acknowledgement receipts po. 1987 05:23:49,020 --> 05:23:53,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kahit sales invoice, wala. Acknowledgement receipts lamang. Opo. 1988 05:23:53,090 --> 05:24:00,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: So, walang ebidensya na talagang ang pinagkagastusan ay yung mga gamot at yung mga pagkain na yun. 1989 05:24:00,730 --> 05:24:04,610 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo kasi based lang doon sa acknowledgement receipts po yung sinubmit nila. 1990 05:24:05,050 --> 05:24:09,990 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Na ayon sa COA ay hindi sapat na ebidensya kung mga ARs lamang. 1991 05:24:10,510 --> 05:24:16,530 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, hindi po kasi namin ma-ascertain kung talagang pinambili ito ng supplies, medicines, and food po. 1992 05:24:16,960 --> 05:24:23,000 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Kailangan nyo resibo o invoices para ma-assertin masiguro na yun talaga yung pinagkagastusan. 1993 05:24:23,340 --> 05:24:24,380 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 1994 05:24:24,580 --> 05:24:55,320 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. Ngayon po, Ms. Aileen, dati po, tinawag ng land bank managers na unusual yung pag-encash ng milyong-milyong pisong, daang-milyong, daan-daang-milyong piso ng OVP at saka ng DepEd sa tigi-isang araw. Sa audit po ninyo, Meron po ba kayong nakitang illegal, improper, o irregular sa paggamit at sa pag-liquidate ng perang iyan? 1995 05:24:55,900 --> 05:25:01,200 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Irregular po yung paggamit nila kasi po hindi po ito compliant with the Joint Circular. So 1996 05:25:01,200 --> 05:25:06,520 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: just to close on this, Mr. Presiding Officer, to wind up, irregular dahil... 1997 05:25:06,760 --> 05:25:07,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: hindi po naging compliant. 1998 05:25:08,160 --> 05:25:08,980 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Paano hindi 1999 05:25:08,980 --> 05:25:18,280 Cylene May L. Del Campo: naging compliant? Dahil po ngayon sa payment of rewards, we're not supported with documents evidencing success. And yun nga po, hindi nila na-provide yung additional 2000 05:25:20,470 --> 05:25:31,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: documents necessary para ma-ascertain yung purchase of supplies and medical and food aid. At saka po, meron din kaming naging findings sa reimbursement po. Okay. 2001 05:25:31,710 --> 05:25:38,630 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: I-follow up ko itong tanong at pati yung punto ng reimbursement sa second round. Salamat, Ms. Aileen. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. 2002 05:25:38,630 --> 05:25:41,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Villanueva, you have two 2003 05:25:43,090 --> 05:25:47,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: minutes. You may proceed when you're ready. Unless Senator-Judge Lapid is ready. 2004 05:25:50,410 --> 05:25:55,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Villanueva, well, I will give way 2005 05:25:55,160 --> 05:25:57,460 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: to Senator Lapid. Mr. President, thank you. 2006 05:26:00,900 --> 05:26:22,840 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Ms. Del Campo, sabi niyo po yung COA conducted compliance audit at sa evaluation niyo ng OVP's confidential expenses. Which matters po? Did COA treat as questions of compliance with the Joint Circular? And which matters? Did COA recognize as falling within the operational judgment of the implementing agency? 2007 05:26:26,330 --> 05:26:27,490 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Clarify po yung question. 2008 05:26:28,180 --> 05:26:51,260 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Which matters po doon sa pag-conduct ng COA, treating it as questions of compliance with the Joint Circular? And which matters doon po sa paggawa ng COA, recognizing it as falling within the operational judgment ng Office of the Vice President? 2009 05:26:52,530 --> 05:27:12,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung pag-evaluate po namin ng mga liquidation documents, binibase po namin yun sa Joint Circular. Yung sa Office of the Vice President po, yung pag-liquidate po dapat nila, it is based po dapat sa Joint, should be compliant with the Joint Circular. 2010 05:27:12,610 --> 05:27:25,930 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Dapat pareho lang. So when COVID disagreed? na yung OVP's characterization that an activity was confidential, necessary, and successfully accomplished, what specific standards po yung ina-apply n'yo? 2011 05:27:26,110 --> 05:27:28,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: The Joint Circular po ang basis ng aming audit. 2012 05:27:29,290 --> 05:27:31,210 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Wala na pong ibang separate COA guidelines? 2013 05:27:33,090 --> 05:27:37,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ginagamit din po namin yung Rules and Regulations on Settlement of Accounts. I'm 2014 05:27:37,010 --> 05:27:37,190 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: sorry? 2015 05:27:37,510 --> 05:27:41,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: The Rules and Regulations on Settlement of Accounts. And 2016 05:27:41,330 --> 05:27:46,220 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: ito po, same standards applied consistently to all. The transactions reviewed. 2017 05:27:46,560 --> 05:27:47,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2018 05:27:48,020 --> 05:27:59,200 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Salamat po. Kapag nag-issue po ang COA ng Notice of Disallowance, maaari pa po bang itong ma-cure simply by correcting, replacing, or subsequently submitting supporting documents? 2019 05:27:59,620 --> 05:28:06,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa Notice of Disallowance po, appeal po sa commission proper ang remedy po ng isang agency. So kailangan 2020 05:28:06,480 --> 05:28:13,040 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: kang dumaan, provided ng COA rules, para ma-lift o ma-reverse yung ND. Is that correct? Can you explain the process? 2021 05:28:13,640 --> 05:28:25,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pag nag-issue po kasi si ICFAO ng Notice of Disallowance, may demand na po to restitute the amount. Pero may remedy pa din po yung agency na mag-appeal po sa commission proper. Commission 2022 05:28:25,900 --> 05:28:27,080 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: proper o co-director? 2023 05:28:27,400 --> 05:28:33,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Commission, yung sa case po ng ICFAO, diretso na po sa commission proper ang appeal. 2024 05:28:34,670 --> 05:28:35,990 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Tapos, puwedeng mag-MR? 2025 05:28:36,630 --> 05:28:49,150 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung magkakaroon po ng decision, kaya nga po nang nangyari sa fourth quarter 2022 na meron silang, yung decision is na-affirm yung ND, opo, meron pa pong remedy na MR. Tapos 2026 05:28:49,150 --> 05:28:50,350 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: pwedeng mag-judicial review? 2027 05:28:51,370 --> 05:28:54,890 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pag-petition for certiorari po. 2028 05:28:55,550 --> 05:28:57,750 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Okay. So, yung 2029 05:29:00,380 --> 05:29:07,800 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: pong pag-correct o pag-submit ng additional document ay hindi by itself equivalent sa legal lifting o reversal ng ND. 2030 05:29:08,220 --> 05:29:10,560 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Depende po yan sa evaluation na po ng sa Commission proper. 2031 05:29:10,560 --> 05:29:11,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kailangan action 2032 05:29:11,120 --> 05:29:27,660 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: lang ng proper, Koa. Malinaw po yan. Last na po. Para malinaw po sa atin lahat, kung ang isang agency ay nag-classify ng isang activity as confidential, bound po ba ang Koa sa classification na ito o bilang constitutional audit body? Hindi po. 2033 05:29:28,800 --> 05:29:45,180 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa confidentiality po, pag naipasa naman po sa amin, iniingatan din po namin yung mga documents na nasasubmit sa amin. And what we do po is yung kung tama ba yung paggamit ng confidential funds na ibinigay po sa isang ahensya. 2034 05:29:45,220 --> 05:30:13,760 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Ulitin ko po yung tanong, ulitin ko po yung tanong. Hindi kayo bound. Hindi kayo bound na ang isang ahensya dineclare confidential funds ito. Hindi kayo bound dahil as a constitutional body, meron po kayong independent evaluation. As commission on audit para yung malaman kung isang activity at expenditure ay talagang confidential in nature at pasok ito sa definition at allowable uses under the Joint Circular. 2035 05:30:14,000 --> 05:30:27,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po kasi itong confidential fund is pondo po ng bayad na kailangan ma-audit at magkaroon ng proper maging ano tawag dito, ma-check kung ito ay nagamit ba sa tama po. 2036 05:30:27,760 --> 05:30:34,220 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Again, hindi kayo bound. Pag dineclare ng isang ahensya, ito confidential funds, hindi kayo bound. 2037 05:30:34,580 --> 05:30:38,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po, kasi nga kailangan i-liquidate pa din po properly. Tama 2038 05:30:38,080 --> 05:31:00,210 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: po yun, and I support that sa Constitution, Article 9D, Section 2, 1 and 2, COA has the power and duty to examine, audit, and settle accounts involving government funds and the exclusive authority, kayo ho, yung may exclusive authority to define the scope of your audit. Is that correct? 2039 05:31:00,580 --> 05:31:01,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2040 05:31:01,440 --> 05:31:16,600 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: So, ibig sabihin ang polisiya po ninyo hindi po sapat na tawaging confidential ng isang ahensya ang isang activity subject pa rin po ito sa independent audit determination ng Commission on Audit. Is that correct? 2041 05:31:16,880 --> 05:31:22,660 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, tama po. Dahil nga po ito ay pondo ng bayan at kailangan po na ma-audit ito ng takot. 2042 05:31:22,680 --> 05:31:27,560 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: At nung ginawa po nyo ito, ilang beses po silang nabigyan ng pagkakataon para sumagot? 2043 05:31:28,020 --> 05:31:42,420 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa fourth quarter 22, dumaan po ito ng AOM, naging NS, naging ND. Yung sa 2023 naman po, AOM, tapos naging ND dahil nga po may direct violation of the joint circular. 2044 05:31:42,740 --> 05:31:46,600 Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid: Salamat po sa pagklaro ng proseso. Salamat. Senator 2045 05:31:46,600 --> 05:31:51,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: -Judge Pangilinan, you may proceed with your interjection when you're ready. You have two minutes, sir. 2046 05:31:53,300 --> 05:31:55,280 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you. Magandang hapon. 2047 05:31:57,020 --> 05:32:12,540 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Sa usapin noong December 21 to December 31, 2022, na ginastos yung 125 million. Pag hindi naubos yung 125 million by December 31, anong mangyayari sa pondo? 2048 05:32:12,700 --> 05:32:14,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Babalik po yun sa National Treasury. 2049 05:32:15,420 --> 05:32:24,040 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So ibig sabihin, hindi may babalik sa savings ng OVP? Babalik sa National Treasury? 2050 05:32:24,400 --> 05:32:25,440 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Apo. I'm 2051 05:32:25,440 --> 05:32:51,410 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: trying to understand bakit. Diba? Ang ikli nung panahon, which you mentioned, maikli yung 11 days, but wala kayong finding, no? Ngayon, kung halimbawa nagsumiti sila ng mga dokumento para mapatunayan na tama lahat mong ginastos nung 21 to 31, di walang issue, hindi ba? Kung nasummit nila yung mga hinihiling ninyong additional documents. 2052 05:32:51,910 --> 05:32:52,690 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes, po. 2053 05:32:52,850 --> 05:33:04,550 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Pero dahil hindi nila sinumiti, Hindi n'yo alam kung tama nga ba yung gastos noong December 21 to December 31. Tama? 2054 05:33:04,830 --> 05:33:07,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, dahil hindi po nila na-explain mabuti. 2055 05:33:07,530 --> 05:33:17,350 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Of course, hindi n'yo malalaman kung iligal o irregular, pero hindi n'yo rin malalaman kung legal o regular. 2056 05:33:18,010 --> 05:33:22,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po siya magpa-fall sa irregular kasi nga po hindi siya compliant with the Joint 2057 05:33:22,910 --> 05:33:23,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Circular. Okay. 2058 05:33:23,550 --> 05:33:32,950 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Hindi n'yo malalaman... kung napunta sa personal use o hindi. Tama? That's why you're asking for more documents. 2059 05:33:32,950 --> 05:33:33,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Oo po. Tama po. 2060 05:33:33,930 --> 05:33:34,290 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, okay. 2061 05:33:36,770 --> 05:33:42,770 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So, kaya siguro, well, so kung hindi niya nagastos, babalik. 2062 05:33:43,180 --> 05:33:44,700 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Oo po, sa national treasure. 2063 05:33:44,840 --> 05:33:46,620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At hindi niya maaaring gastusin sa January. 2064 05:33:47,300 --> 05:33:48,200 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi na po. 2065 05:33:48,260 --> 05:33:51,380 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Hindi rin niya maaaring gastusin before December 21. 2066 05:33:52,320 --> 05:33:54,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po kasi bawal po ang reimbursement. 2067 05:33:54,660 --> 05:33:56,640 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So talagang doon mo lang magagasos? 2068 05:33:56,880 --> 05:34:00,680 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, doon sa nakalagay na period of utilization of the cash advance. 2069 05:34:00,980 --> 05:34:12,620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Which could be valid, dahil yun nga lang ang panahon, or invalid. Dangan nga lang, kaya kayo humihingi ng dagdag na dokumento para malaman natin kung valid ba o hindi. 2070 05:34:12,940 --> 05:34:13,820 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2071 05:34:14,020 --> 05:34:18,660 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Yung usapin ng protective... 2072 05:34:24,340 --> 05:34:25,780 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: intelligence operations. 2073 05:34:29,190 --> 05:34:32,710 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Dati wala namang confidential funds ang OVP, tama? 2074 05:34:33,630 --> 05:34:36,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, magmula na nag-start po ako sa ICVAO. 2075 05:34:36,290 --> 05:34:39,230 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Pero dati meron ng protective services ang OVP. 2076 05:34:40,130 --> 05:34:45,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa pagkakaalam ko po, yung under the PSG po ata sila. 2077 05:34:45,170 --> 05:34:50,810 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So yung gastos para sa security, dati sa PSG. 2078 05:34:52,780 --> 05:35:01,400 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Pero dito lumalabas yung casing, security, appointment ay ginastos o ginamit yung confidential funds. Tama ba yun? 2079 05:35:01,440 --> 05:35:01,820 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2080 05:35:03,600 --> 05:35:04,060 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Next 2081 05:35:04,060 --> 05:35:11,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: round na lang po. Thank you, Senator-Judge Pangilinan. Senator-Judge Aquino may proceed with his interjection when he's ready. You have 10 minutes, sir. 2082 05:35:16,120 --> 05:35:18,520 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Maraming salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang araw po. 2083 05:35:18,820 --> 05:35:19,840 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Good afternoon po. 2084 05:35:21,790 --> 05:35:37,450 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Sa inyo pong determinasyon sa inyong opisina, meron pong mga disallowances, no? Tungkol po sa kategorya ng mga gastos, kung sino po yung nag-disperse. Pero hindi po naging rason ng disallowance yung mga kakaibang pangalan. Tama po ba? 2085 05:35:37,770 --> 05:35:39,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Pero 2086 05:35:39,550 --> 05:35:52,200 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: nakita po ninyo na may mga pangalan na kakaiba. May peyatos, may bacon. Hart, Queso, at kung ano-ano, hindi nyo po naisip na baka red flag po ito? 2087 05:35:53,240 --> 05:35:59,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dahil nga po ang audit namin is compliance lang po, hindi na po namin binerify yung identity nung nakatanggap po. 2088 05:36:00,100 --> 05:36:09,120 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Pero nung, hindi nyo binerify, pero nung nakikita ninyo, o nung nakikita mo, hindi mo ba naisip na posibleng red flag itong mga pangalan to? 2089 05:36:09,600 --> 05:36:27,220 Cylene May L. Del Campo: We presume po kasi regularity kasi po merong certification under oath yung SDO. This was used for the confidential operations of the agency. And these are necessary and for legal purpose po yung naging paggastos ng confidential fund. 2090 05:36:27,420 --> 05:36:43,800 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. So nag-consult na kasi yung iba naming abogado kay former Commissioner Heidi Mendoza. At sabi niya, kapag may mga kakaibang pangalan, The COA can trigger an investigation because of fraud. So hindi nyo po ginawa yun, walang usapin ng investigation because of fraud. 2091 05:36:44,140 --> 05:37:08,980 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa fraud audit po kasi, pinag-aaral, yung possibility po, pinag-aaral pa kasi kung magpo-fraud audit po, this is the first time. And yung documents po, yung transactions involving the OBP and DepEd po, contains voluminous documents na with sensitive information na pag naibigay po sa ibang opisina, baka po magiging exposed siya. 2092 05:37:09,160 --> 05:37:14,900 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. So, ulitin ko ha. So, hindi kayo nag-trigger ng investigation of fraud? Or nag-trigger kayo? 2093 05:37:15,380 --> 05:37:18,260 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pa po. Pinag-aaralan pa po with the chairperson. 2094 05:37:18,740 --> 05:37:24,080 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Ah, pinag-aaralan. So, it's possible na magkaroon pa ng investigation due to fraud? 2095 05:37:24,320 --> 05:37:33,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ah, pinag-aaralan pa lang po. At kung kinakailangan po, pwede pong... mag-fraud audit po. 2096 05:37:33,250 --> 05:37:39,690 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Let me ask about what is fraud, no? Ano yung fraudulent? Yung paggamit ba ng alias ay fraudulent? 2097 05:37:41,780 --> 05:37:42,260 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Ito ba 2098 05:37:42,260 --> 05:37:43,320 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: 'y bawal or iligal? 2099 05:37:43,600 --> 05:37:57,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po sa joint circular, silent po kasi ang joint circular as to the use of alias po. Pero ang binabantayan po dito is dapat na ibigay po ito sa totoong tao at nagamit sa tamang confidential expenses po. Okay. 2100 05:37:57,940 --> 05:38:28,460 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So thank you, thank you for that. So... Kung nagamit to sa talagang nakalagay doon, hindi ito fraudulent. Pero kung ito'y hindi naman nagamit doon sa nakalagay at kunyari na bulsa lang, fraudulent yun, correct? Opo, tama. So yung bawat isang pangalan, dapat ba merong ring 1 is to 1 na totoong tao sa likod nun? O pwede kunyari may alokasyon ng 10 million tapos hinati-hati sa tagti 300,000 pero isang tao lang talaga yun, yun po ba fraudulent? 2101 05:38:29,770 --> 05:38:35,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang kuhaan ko po doon is isang tao lang yung nakatanggap based doon sa acknowledgement receipt po na yun. 2102 05:38:35,010 --> 05:38:56,430 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So sa inyo pong professional opinion, kailangan po yung bawat AR ay may katumbas na totoong tao kung yun man ang kanyang pangalan o meron siyang totoong pangalan. At yung nakalagay doon sa report na activity, yun dapat talaga yung nagawa. Tama po ba? 2103 05:38:56,750 --> 05:38:57,750 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2104 05:38:58,050 --> 05:39:05,230 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Are you aware, Madam Witness, na meron tayong batas na nagbabawal ng paggamit ng alias? 2105 05:39:06,040 --> 05:39:09,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po ako familiar dun sa law. Okay. 2106 05:39:09,100 --> 05:39:26,170 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: There is a law actually, RA 6085. na nagbabawal ng paggamit ng alias at nais namin alamin kung ito ba'y pertinent dito sa usapin ng confidential and intelligence funds at aalamin po namin yan. Maybe for the second round. Maraming salamat, Madam Witness. 2107 05:39:26,390 --> 05:39:32,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo, you may proceed with your interjections. You have two minutes, sir. 2108 05:39:40,680 --> 05:39:43,060 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Magandang hapon po, Ginang Witness. 2109 05:39:44,080 --> 05:39:44,960 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Para po sa 2110 05:39:44,960 --> 05:39:50,760 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: kalaman ng mga kababayan natin, pag sinabi ng COA, disallowance, ano pong ibig sabihin po nito? 2111 05:39:51,370 --> 05:40:01,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa disallowance po, ibig sabihin hindi ito ipinayagan sa audit po. So sa IGFAO po, pag nag-issue na kami ng disallowance, may demand na po na ibalik yung pondo ng bayan. 2112 05:40:01,930 --> 05:40:11,850 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay, na ibalik ang pondo. Sumagot naman po sila ang OVP noong nag-issue kayong disallowance. Sumagot ba yung mga kakulangan na dokumento na ibigay ba nila? 2113 05:40:12,270 --> 05:40:16,090 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang naging remedy po nila is mag-appeal po sa commission proper. 2114 05:40:16,550 --> 05:40:18,710 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ano po nangyari doon sa commission proper? 2115 05:40:19,240 --> 05:40:26,580 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa 2022 transaction po, nagkaroon po ng decision ng commission proper at inaffirm po nila yung notice of disallowance. 2116 05:40:26,700 --> 05:40:33,170 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Okay, so na sinabi nyo kailangan ibalik po yung pondo, tama po ba? 2117 05:40:33,170 --> 05:40:34,690 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2118 05:40:34,690 --> 05:40:35,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Naibalik po ba? 2119 05:40:36,320 --> 05:40:53,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po kasi ang remedy pa po nila, nasa, pwede po po silang mag-remedy, may remedy pa po sila na mag-appeal. So yun po. Tapos ang nangyari dun sa 2022, may decision, meron po silang final na motion for reconsideration na pending resolution po. Sa 2120 05:40:53,900 --> 05:40:55,380 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: COA po ba o sa SC? 2121 05:40:55,780 --> 05:40:58,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa Commission Proper pa din po. Commission 2122 05:40:58,340 --> 05:41:02,040 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Proper. So yun po, nakalabas na po ba ng desisyon ng Commission Proper? 2123 05:41:02,590 --> 05:41:04,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: May pending MR pa po sila. May 2124 05:41:04,870 --> 05:41:11,670 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: pending. Magkano po yung total na inaantay natin na ibalik ng OVP at DepEd? 2125 05:41:11,910 --> 05:41:29,470 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa OVP po, 73,287,000 yung fourth quarter. Yun po palang sa 2023, na-issue po kasi namin yung ND is March 31, 2026. Within the prescribed period pa po sila ng 180 days to appeal po sa commission proper. 2126 05:41:29,950 --> 05:41:41,670 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kaya nga po, ang tanong natin, bukod sa OVP, meron din po tayo pinag-uusapan sa DepEd, di po ba? Magkano po itong total kung alam ho ninyo ang kailangang ibalik, ang inaantay ninyo? 2127 05:41:42,070 --> 05:41:52,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa DepEd po kasi, may na-issue kami na credit notice dun sa First and second quarter. Tapos yung sa third quarter po, under review and evaluation pa po. 2128 05:41:53,250 --> 05:41:55,250 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kaya nga po, magkano? Yung 2129 05:41:55,250 --> 05:41:58,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: sa DepEd po is 112.5 million. From 2130 05:41:58,650 --> 05:42:00,910 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: 2022 to 2023 po yun? 2131 05:42:01,130 --> 05:42:06,130 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po silang budget for 22. First to third quarters po ng 23 yung sa DepEd. 112. 2132 05:42:06,310 --> 05:42:08,570 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sa DepEd po, magkano inaantay nyo? 2133 05:42:08,710 --> 05:42:10,950 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po yung 112.5 million. Sa 2134 05:42:10,950 --> 05:42:11,650 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: OVP po? 2135 05:42:11,810 --> 05:42:13,690 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Sa OVP po is... 2136 05:42:15,400 --> 05:42:19,960 Cylene May L. Del Campo: 375 plus 73.287 million po. 2137 05:42:20,680 --> 05:42:22,460 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So, magkano pong total lahat? 2138 05:42:24,550 --> 05:42:26,510 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Mga, hindi 2139 05:42:28,210 --> 05:42:32,870 Cylene May L. Del Campo: ko naman, mga 4 million, ay 400 plus. Okay, 2140 05:42:33,370 --> 05:42:34,990 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: so yun ang inaantay po ninyo? 2141 05:42:35,350 --> 05:42:37,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa OVP po, opo. So, 2142 05:42:37,010 --> 05:42:38,550 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: hanggang ngayon inaantay po ninyo? 2143 05:42:38,730 --> 05:42:41,910 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi may mga remedies pa po sila na. Okay, 2144 05:42:42,150 --> 05:42:44,790 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: alright. Maraming salamat po, yun lang po. 2145 05:42:45,390 --> 05:42:48,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge, I heard you too. You may proceed with your interjections. 2146 05:42:50,960 --> 05:42:52,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed with your interjections. 2147 05:42:56,050 --> 05:42:57,850 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yes, magandang hapon. Good 2148 05:42:57,850 --> 05:42:58,550 Cylene May L. Del Campo: afternoon po. 2149 05:43:00,770 --> 05:43:30,760 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sige, first question lang, no? Is it allowed for disbursement to be validly spent and still be disallowed by COA, no? Yung disbursement, sorry, disbursement to be validly spent and still be disallowed by COA for want of documentation. Yung kumbaga, possibly ba na nag-gastos naman ng tama ang pondo, pero... Disallowed pa rin ito ng COA dahil kulang ang mga dokumentong nagpapatibay ng pagkakagastos. Opo. So, possible pala yan. 2150 05:43:33,100 --> 05:43:40,060 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Halimbawa, nawala ang resibo, gano'n, kaya hindi maipasala ng COA, ibig sabihin, automatic na disallowed na 2151 05:43:40,060 --> 05:43:40,980 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ito pag nawala. 2152 05:43:41,570 --> 05:43:42,850 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede pong pakialit. 2153 05:43:43,030 --> 05:43:46,630 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Halimbawa, gano'n ba yung pag nawala yung resibo, 2154 05:43:48,320 --> 05:43:53,560 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Automatic na madi-disallow ng ginas dahil wala na itong maipapakita? Wala nang katibayan? 2155 05:43:56,320 --> 05:44:07,320 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung sa pagbabasayan po yung sa joint circular, yung sa disallowance po kasi, yung hindi siya naging compliant with the joint circular. 2156 05:44:11,060 --> 05:44:12,020 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sige lang po. 2157 05:44:12,300 --> 05:44:17,300 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Tapos dun po sa sinasabi ninyo na nawala yung resibo, 2158 05:44:18,960 --> 05:44:28,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Doon po kasi hindi natin ma-check, ma-assertain kung talagang ginamit ba ito kung sa purpose na yun po without yung receipt na yun. 2159 05:44:28,900 --> 05:44:56,800 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tapos napansin ko lang din po sa iyong testimony, no? Yung pong period ng December at New Year season, sa iyong mga eksperyensya, ito ba yung normally na nagkakaroon ng increase sa paggastos ng... Kasi ito yung tungkol sa confidential at nagkaroon ng ano eh, parang pag-spike noong Christmas season na base doon sa iyong presentation. Normal ba ito sa ibang ahensya rin? 2160 05:44:57,490 --> 05:45:08,180 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po kasi sa ibang ahensya, as a general, doon po sila sa three-month period po. Doon po yung pag-gastos nila. 2161 05:45:08,480 --> 05:45:33,090 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So yung sa... Sa yung, kasi madalas pag Christmas season, yan yung peak season sa karamihan ng paggastos eh. So yung, sa confidential and other, itong mga, itong pinag-uusapan natin mga pondo rito, ganun diba? Meron bang normal ba na ganun ang karamihan na ginagastos na panahon na lumalaki? 2162 05:45:34,110 --> 05:45:35,590 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po. 2163 05:45:42,750 --> 05:45:53,070 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tapos yung COA, nag-issue po ng notice of disallowance. Is it directing the officers? Namely, ano pang clarify lang, no? Ibalik lang yung pera o na personal capacity. 2164 05:45:54,850 --> 05:45:57,310 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pag nag-issue kayo ng notice of disallowance. 2165 05:45:57,870 --> 05:46:07,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pinapabalik po dun sa mga persons liable po sa transaction. Gaya nga po dun sa ND, yung head of agency, yung SDO, accountant. 2166 05:46:10,660 --> 05:46:26,420 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tapos, is it our understanding or correct that that agency, office with confidential funds, cannot advance its payment only to members later? Kung baga, pwede ba yung ganun na i-re-reimburse na lang kung nauna ng gastusin? 2167 05:46:26,660 --> 05:46:30,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang reimbursement po, hindi po ito pinapayagan sa Joint Circular. 2168 05:46:30,480 --> 05:46:35,180 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Hindi po po, ah, so, ito disallowed ka agad? Kasama po sa mga dinasallow n'yo? 2169 05:46:35,320 --> 05:46:37,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kung may reimbursement po, oo po. 2170 05:46:37,580 --> 05:46:39,980 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Last na po, in 2171 05:46:42,060 --> 05:47:01,940 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: your experience, sa inyo pong confidential fund expenses, have you come across with other agencies, sa ibang ahensya, na naggastos yung ganito karami in such a period? Kasi meron doon 11 months na parang nare-iterate sa mga nabasa ko lang po. Na ganong kabilis din po. 2172 05:47:02,600 --> 05:47:07,640 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa ibang agency po, hindi ko na po siya pwedeng i-disclose kasi part na po ng audit ng... 2173 05:47:08,430 --> 05:47:08,790 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: And 2174 05:47:08,790 --> 05:47:10,350 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: that's all, Mr. President. 2175 05:47:10,590 --> 05:47:10,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, 2176 05:47:10,650 --> 05:47:16,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge. Senator-Judge Rafi Tulfo, you may proceed when you're ready, sir. You have two minutes. 2177 05:47:18,540 --> 05:47:21,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thereafter, our Senate President, thereafter, Senator Lacson. 2178 05:47:26,860 --> 05:47:42,160 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Madam Witness, pag-usapan natin yung safe houses ng OVP. Based dun sa records ng House of Representatives noong 2022, yung OVP ay gumastos ng 16 million pesos sa confidential funds para sa bayad or rental ng safe houses, correct? 2179 05:47:42,540 --> 05:47:43,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2180 05:47:43,950 --> 05:47:45,230 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: At ilang safe houses ito? 2181 05:47:46,120 --> 05:47:48,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede po ba macheck ko yung records kayo? 2182 05:47:48,200 --> 05:47:48,500 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Go ahead po. 2183 05:48:01,050 --> 05:48:03,050 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Tulungan na lang kita para mas mapabilis. 34? 2184 05:48:04,150 --> 05:48:08,150 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 34 na safe houses. 16 million. 2185 05:48:08,510 --> 05:48:09,590 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: 16 million. Ilang araw? 2186 05:48:10,070 --> 05:48:11,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: 11 days po. 2187 05:48:11,330 --> 05:48:52,330 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: 11 days. Okay. Kasi, Madam Witness, base sa 2022 real estate data, ang real estate property, alam mo, sa Forbes Park, 200... 450,000 a month, i-divide mo yan sa every day, just 15,000 pesos a day. Corinthian, 200,000 a month, divided by that per day, 6,666. Sa Ayala-Alabang, 290,000 per month, per day lalabas yan na 9,666. Ito ba yung mga nerentahan ng OVP na safe houses nila? Galing ba sa mga nasabi ko exclusive subdivisions? 2188 05:48:53,170 --> 05:49:01,830 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong nilagay na addresses noong kanilang safe house. Yung acknowledgement receipts lang po yung naging basihan namin doon sa payment of rental of safe house. 2189 05:49:02,170 --> 05:49:08,510 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Pero hindi sinabi whether Forbes Park, Amanpalo, Boracay, mga ganon, Dasmarinas, wala talaga? 2190 05:49:08,670 --> 05:49:09,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po. 2191 05:49:09,830 --> 05:49:21,830 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So, ibangga mo yan sa mga ibang agencies na nagli-liquidate para sa kanilang mga safe houses? Meron bang ganong klase mga amount na diniklara? Meron bang mga amount na ganon? 2192 05:49:22,980 --> 05:49:24,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala po, hindi po ganun kalaki. 2193 05:49:24,860 --> 05:49:30,780 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So, walang ganun kalaki. So, what do you think of this? Is this excessive, abusive, or out of this world amount? 2194 05:49:32,430 --> 05:49:33,910 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Base po sa inyong experience. 2195 05:49:35,440 --> 05:49:56,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ito po kasi is hindi namin naging finding. So, kasi po nag-rely mga po kami dun sa certification ng SDO na these were used for the disbursement of CF and necessary po ito and for legal purpose. Pero kung dito po, malaki po talaga siya for payment of rental of safe house. 2196 05:49:57,110 --> 05:50:12,670 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kasi lumilitaw, parang 42,780 pesos per day ang bayad ng OVP para sa kunilang mga rental properties noong 2022. So halagang 16 million na spend nila in the 11 days. 2197 05:50:15,350 --> 05:50:30,110 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Now, sa paggamit ng mga aliases. Silent ang joint circular sa paggamit ng mga kenkoy na mga aliases para sa mga informants na tumatanggap ng confidential funds, right? 2198 05:50:30,570 --> 05:50:32,290 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, silent ang joint circular. 2199 05:50:32,670 --> 05:50:42,650 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Silent din ba ang joint circular sa paggamit ng isang signature sa napakaraming pangalan? 2200 05:50:44,730 --> 05:50:49,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pong naging provision ang joint circular dun sa mga 2201 05:50:57,140 --> 05:51:03,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dapat po, ito ay mabigay sa totoong tao po. Yun po ang importante sa Joint Circular. 2202 05:51:08,350 --> 05:51:08,810 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2203 05:51:09,150 --> 05:51:10,050 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Maraming salamat po. 2204 05:51:10,510 --> 05:51:15,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Tulfo. The Senate President is recognized for his interjections. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 2205 05:51:16,210 --> 05:51:18,210 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 2206 05:51:21,150 --> 05:51:45,320 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Miss Aileen. Tama ba ba narinig ko kahapon na kaya na disallow yung OVP for 2023 amounting to 375 million is dahil ibinigay ni Acosta kay La Chica yung pera? 2207 05:51:45,400 --> 05:51:47,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, Your Honor. 2208 05:51:47,380 --> 05:52:53,250 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. So lahat yun din is allow in 375. Opo. Tinitignan ko rin tong transcripts ng house kung saan sinabi ni Acosta na yung fourth quarter of 2022, ibinigay rin yung 125 million kay La Chica. At on the same transcript, November 25 to 2024, Sinabi naman ni Fajarda na ibinigay yung 37.5 million kay Colonel Nolasco. So in both instances, yung fourth quarter of 2022, tsaka yung buong DepEd confidential funds, ibinigay ng special dispersing officer sa iba. Kung ganyan rin ang sitwasyon, Di dapat ma-disallow rin yung fourth quarter ng 2022 at buong DepEd Confidential Funds. Tama po ba? 2209 05:52:54,570 --> 05:53:39,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po kasing sa disallowance nung sa DepEd, yung sa DepEd po kasi is di ba po meron na kaming issue na credit notice. And dahil nga po sa additional information, After namin ma-release yun, August 2024 po kasi yun, November 2024, nagkaroon ng CGPA. So, Pinag-aaralan pa po kasi this is the first time po kung sakali man na magre-reopen kami ng settled accounts. And ito po kasing reopening is with the authority of the COA chairperson. Kaya po pinag-aaralan po kung ito ay re-reopen dahil nga po it is the first time and this involves voluminous documents na kailangang isa-isa rin po. 2210 05:53:39,020 --> 05:53:54,850 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero pag titignan natin yung circumstances, pareho eh. binigay yung pera kay La Chica, binigay yung pera kay Nolasco. Kung ganun susundan natin na rational, puwedeng ma-disallow rin yung fourth quarter OVP at buong DepEd confidential funds. Tama? 2211 05:53:54,850 --> 05:53:56,030 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, tama po. 2212 05:53:56,030 --> 05:54:06,910 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So, puwedeng ma-disallow buong 612.5 million na confidential funds sa OVP at sa DepEd. Tama? 2213 05:54:07,050 --> 05:54:08,210 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, tama po. 2214 05:54:08,530 --> 05:54:09,890 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: At yan ay dapat ibalik. 2215 05:54:10,640 --> 05:54:11,960 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ng mga accountable 2216 05:54:11,960 --> 05:54:12,560 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: officers. 2217 05:54:12,880 --> 05:54:13,940 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2218 05:54:14,260 --> 05:54:18,820 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Bakit mahalaga ang papel ng special dispersing officer? 2219 05:54:19,360 --> 05:54:37,000 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung special dispersing officer po kasi, siya yung... May responsibility to disperse yung cash advance. And doon po kasi sa nangyari sa DepEd at saka sa OBP. Noong i-transfer po niya ito sa ibang tao, naputol na po yung chain of accountability. 2220 05:54:38,740 --> 05:55:01,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Nawala na po yung personal knowledge kung talaga bang ibinigay ito. Ginamit ito ng mga security officers na pinagbigyan for confidential activities po talaga. And mababaliwala yung certification na this is for the confidential operations of the agency po and legal and necessary yung naging gastos po. 2221 05:55:01,630 --> 05:55:11,150 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: In your opinion ngayon na ibinigay ito sa non-special dispersing officer, anong pwedeng mangyari sa pondo na sabi mo kahapon public funds? 2222 05:55:12,870 --> 05:55:18,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Dahil nga po, naging mali yung paggasta nito, kailangan pong ibalik ito sa pondo ng bayan. Kung 2223 05:55:18,790 --> 05:55:23,510 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: binigay sa non, hindi siya na SDO, non-SDO, anong pwedeng mangyayari doon sa pondo? 2224 05:55:24,330 --> 05:55:32,350 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pwede po itong magamit sa hindi dapat paggamitan na hindi for confidential expenses. May risk po na gano'n. Thank 2225 05:55:32,350 --> 05:55:33,910 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: you, Mr. President. Senator 2226 05:55:33,910 --> 05:55:36,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: -Judge Lacson, you may proceed when you have two minutes, sir. 2227 05:55:37,650 --> 05:55:54,880 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you. Good afternoon, Sailin. Good afternoon, po. Ayosong pamilyar ka doon sa Article 4, Section 15 ng inyong Joint Circular. Ayan, ipinlas ko lang sa screen para ma-remind ka. 2228 05:55:56,040 --> 05:55:56,440 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pay 2229 05:55:56,440 --> 05:56:07,290 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: attention sa Paragraph 15.2, Paragraph 2, at saka Paragraph 3. Pakibasa mo na lang para hindi mat-chart sa akin. 2230 05:56:07,880 --> 05:56:25,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: that expenses were incurred in connection with the agency's intelligence or confidential operations and activities with supporting documents attached to the liquidation for CF and for the IF, the documentary evidence of payment kept in a sealed envelope in the vault in the office of the SDO. 2231 05:56:25,920 --> 05:56:27,760 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Sige. Sa 3. Paragraph 3. 2232 05:56:28,140 --> 05:56:39,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: that the details and supporting documents of transactions that are classified are in the custody of the agency and kept in its vault which may be inspected by ICFAO if the circumstances so demand. 2233 05:56:40,340 --> 05:56:41,000 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang 2234 05:56:41,000 --> 05:56:42,260 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: tanong ko, ginawa nyo ba ito? 2235 05:56:43,790 --> 05:56:50,110 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa inspection po kasi ng vault, sa IF na po yun. Hindi, 2236 05:56:50,450 --> 05:56:51,150 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: ICFAO ito ah. 2237 05:56:51,450 --> 05:57:00,480 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Siya sabi, if the circumstances so demand. Hindi ba dinidemand ng circumstances na Inspection yun yung vault, 2238 05:57:00,640 --> 05:57:02,020 Cylene May L. Del Campo: dahil maraming 2239 05:57:02,020 --> 05:57:02,540 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: aliases. 2240 05:57:03,000 --> 05:57:09,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung vault po kasi, yung sa vault po kasi, nagpe-pertain po yun sa intelligence fund, yung 2241 05:57:09,100 --> 05:57:09,540 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: may vault 2242 05:57:09,540 --> 05:57:10,120 Cylene May L. Del Campo: po sa office. No, 2243 05:57:10,120 --> 05:57:15,970 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: CEF saka IF ito. Hindi lang intelligence. Parehong treatment, Miss Aileen. 2244 05:57:17,860 --> 05:57:18,460 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 415. 2245 05:57:20,090 --> 05:57:26,820 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang tanong ko lang, hindi ba dinidemand o dinemand ng circumstances na inspeksyon ninyo yung vault? 2246 05:57:29,760 --> 05:57:41,620 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Kasi kung maraming Eliases na nagdududa kayo, diba natural lamang, logically, isipin n'yo, ma-inspection nga yung vault kung meron talagang mga totoong tao sa likod ng mga Elias o Eliases. 2247 05:57:41,960 --> 05:57:45,740 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ang pag-inspect po kasi is through the authority po of the chairperson. 2248 05:57:46,240 --> 05:57:48,060 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: I know. Hindi kayo kumuha ng authority? 2249 05:57:50,430 --> 05:57:51,330 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Wala pa po. 2250 05:57:51,450 --> 05:57:56,830 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: My point is, parang kulang yung ginawa n'yong trabaho para hindi kumpleto. 2251 05:57:57,800 --> 05:58:00,400 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi po may iba po kasing office na... No, 2252 05:58:00,400 --> 05:58:06,870 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: ICPAU siyang sabi rito. May be inspected by ICPAU if the circumstances so demand. 2253 05:58:08,900 --> 05:58:16,100 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Opo. Anyway, let's leave it at that. Pamilyar ka ba doon sa 2020-005? 2254 05:58:16,900 --> 05:58:18,760 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Anong circular po yun? 2255 05:58:18,760 --> 05:58:22,130 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yung sa fraud audit. 2256 05:58:23,050 --> 05:58:25,930 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi po ako gaanong familiar doon sa Joint Circuit. Anyway, 2257 05:58:26,170 --> 05:58:31,990 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: ipamilyarize kita. Meron kayong office, di ba? Yung fraud audit office. 2258 05:58:32,430 --> 05:58:34,230 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, may separate office po sa COA. 2259 05:58:34,410 --> 05:58:50,530 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Okay, dito sa paragraph 3.1, yung filing, of course, ito, people's participation ito eh. Kailangan merong formal complaint, pero hindi lang complaint information, indication, or complaint na merong fraud. 2260 05:58:52,260 --> 05:59:25,020 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Opo. So, papasok yung fraud audit investigation ng inyong office. Hindi office n'yo. ibang office. Yeah. Pero nakalagay sa 3.1, any person who has knowledge that the transactions of, et cetera, no, eh, puwedeng gumawa ng written information sa inyong, sa office na yon para mapunta doon sa logical conclusion, mapunta sa filing of criminal, filing of criminal charges against whoever, not necessarily the vice president. 2261 05:59:25,760 --> 06:00:00,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa pag-refer po sa Fraud Audit Office, ito po ay pinag-aaralan din po kung kinakailangan na i-refer to sa Fraud Audit Office. Ngayon po, pinag-aaralan po namin ang office namin together with the chairperson po kasi kung sakaling may refer po ito, ito po yung first time. And also po, itong transaction na ito involves voluminous documents na with classified information na baka pag ipinun... Inirefer namin sa ibang office is ma-expose po ito. So, pinag-aaralan po itong mabuti. Anyway, 2262 06:00:01,060 --> 06:00:34,330 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 12 seconds na lang. Isa na lang tanong balikan ko yung sa 4.15. Hindi nyo ba naisip na man lang na kung na-inspect nyo yung vault, kumuha kayo ng mga specimen, yun yung mga question document, yung mga signatures. Makompare nyo sana sa mga ibang officials na mayroon kayo yung specimen signature para ma-determine nyo kung forged yung mga signatures na sinabi sa inyo. Yun lang, Mr. President Officer, Mr. Chairman. Kindly answer the question, Celine. 2263 06:00:35,790 --> 06:00:40,770 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, i-re-refer po namin sa higher authority po. Thank you po. 2264 06:00:44,670 --> 06:00:45,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 2265 06:00:45,150 --> 06:00:52,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair would just like to make some interjections. We will not have a round two anymore because we have to convene session at 4.15. 2266 06:00:55,660 --> 06:01:06,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So that we can dispense with the witness already. Just a few questions, Sylene. Wala pang NFD lahat ng pondong pinag-uusapan natin. Fourth quarter of 2022, 2267 06:01:07,320 --> 06:01:07,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the 2268 06:01:07,580 --> 06:01:10,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: first three quarters of 2023 for DepEd and OVB. 2269 06:01:11,080 --> 06:01:12,860 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, wala pa pong NFD. 2270 06:01:13,080 --> 06:01:15,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So wala pang final decision lahat ng ito? 2271 06:01:16,180 --> 06:01:18,080 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. Pag 2272 06:01:18,080 --> 06:01:28,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinabi niyong nag-demand kayo ng restitution, ang ibig sabihin lang naman ito, kinargan n'yo na as an unliquidated cash advance yung mga dinis-allow n'yo. 2273 06:01:29,430 --> 06:01:30,310 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, tama po. 2274 06:01:30,470 --> 06:01:40,210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yun lang naman po ang ibig sabihin n'yo, di ba? Hindi naman ibig sabihin, isoli mo, bigay mo yung pera sa akin. Ibig sabihin nun, ilalagay namin yan as unliquidated cash advance during the pendency of the notice of disallowance. 2275 06:01:40,510 --> 06:01:42,850 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yes po, kasi may mga remedies pa po sila. 2276 06:01:42,850 --> 06:01:45,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kasi hindi pa nga final at wala pa ng NFD. 2277 06:01:45,390 --> 06:01:45,730 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2278 06:01:45,730 --> 06:02:00,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama po. Pangalawa, ano po ba pagkakaiba ng disbursement sa transfer? Illegal mag-transfer ng pera ang SDO sa isang non-SDO, pero pwede po ba siya mag-disburse sa isang non-SDO o unbounded na tao? 2279 06:02:00,720 --> 06:02:08,040 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi din po pwede. Hindi din po niyang ibigay yun sa unbounded na tao. 2280 06:02:09,140 --> 06:02:10,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Recipient na po yun eh. 2281 06:02:10,850 --> 06:02:22,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa disbursement po niya, opo, hindi bounded, pero kung itat... Dapat po diretso from the SDO to the recipient of the confidential fund po. So ang 2282 06:02:22,790 --> 06:02:39,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: disbursement pwede sa non-bounded na tao, ang transfer ng pondo sa non-bounded hindi pwede. These are technical terms. Opo. Di ba? So kung pinagbigyan ay recipient, pwede yun kahit non-bounded. 2283 06:02:39,940 --> 06:02:44,340 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo, kasi siya na yung talagang recipient nung confidential fund. And 2284 06:02:44,340 --> 06:03:05,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: as a final question, Sarlina, I checked the transcript which the court took judicial notice of. I would like to ask more eyes to look at it. Hindi ko nakita sa transcript na sinabi ni Gina Acosta na binigay niya kay Lachica lahat for the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first three quarters of 2023. 2285 06:03:07,460 --> 06:03:35,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Medyo may ganung punto pa si Eduarda. Pero kay Gina Acosta, maliwanag na binigay niya yung 125 ayon sa kanya kay Lachica sa last quarter. Pero hindi ganung kaliwanag na yun din ang ginawa niya for the first three quarters of 2023. Ano po ba particular yung pinagbasihan niyong dokumento nung binanggit niyong dinisallow namin agad dahil sabi niya Acosta, binigay niya lahat kay Lachica. Hindi ko po makita. Baka pwede niyong maituro sa TSN kung saan. 2286 06:03:36,300 --> 06:03:45,540 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po kasi ang pinanghawakan namin doon, yung general statement niya na yung ginagawa nila is ibinibigay niya kay Colonel La Chica yung confidential fund po. 2287 06:03:45,680 --> 06:04:18,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero ang tinutukoy po niya ay yung 2025. Yung general statement po ni Eduarda, yun ang tumutukoy sa confidential fund ng DepEd para sa tatlong quarters ng 2023. Pero hindi po pareho yung statement nila ni Gina Acosta. na ganung kaliwanag na yun din yung ginawa niya sa first three quarters of 2023. Ano po ba yung particular na pinagbasihan niya? When you say general statement yung pinagbasihan niyo, yung narinig niyo po ba o yung TSN mismo? 2288 06:04:19,210 --> 06:04:24,790 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun nga po, yung naging admission niya na binibigay niya kay Colonel La Chica po. 2289 06:04:25,030 --> 06:04:28,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kangilisan, Celine, yung narinig mo nung nandun ka o yung TSN mismo? 2290 06:04:30,190 --> 06:04:34,390 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung narinig ko po nung nandun po ako na sinabi niya na binibigay niya kay Colonel. Hindi mo 2291 06:04:34,390 --> 06:04:39,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pinagbasihan yung aktual na TSN na marahil mas maliwanag tungkol sa bagay nito. 2292 06:04:40,170 --> 06:04:40,650 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2293 06:04:40,770 --> 06:04:43,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So based lang dun sa narinig mo nung nandun ka. 2294 06:04:43,490 --> 06:04:43,970 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Opo. 2295 06:04:44,550 --> 06:04:48,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Ms. Aileen. Senator Padilla, yes. 2296 06:04:55,430 --> 06:04:57,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Padilla, yes. 2297 06:05:03,450 --> 06:05:10,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sen. Padilla for a brief interjection and Sen. Marcos for a brief interjection to avail of Round 1, then we call it a day. 2298 06:05:12,370 --> 06:05:19,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sen. Lapid, kindly proceed Sen. Padilla while Sen. Lapid is thinking about it. No, please proceed. 2299 06:05:37,870 --> 06:06:14,670 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Noong August 6, 2024, nagkaroon ng committee hearing ang public order at sinasabi na 102 schools nationwide were identified as recruitment. 11 elementary schools, 34 high schools, 123 colleges and universities. Doon din sa hearing ngayon sinabi na meron 168 track student recruits remain active sa NPA. Ngayon, tanong ko, Kailian, hindi ba responsibilidad din ito ng Vice President at ng DepEd Secretary ang mga estudyante? 2300 06:06:15,880 --> 06:06:23,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung sa college po. Yung DepEd po kasi is hanggang high school. 2301 06:06:23,420 --> 06:06:54,570 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, yung binanggit ko po kasi kanina, 55 na alternative child recruits. 11 elementary schools. 34 high schools. Ibig pong sabihin, tuloy-tuloy po yun. Magmula elementary, paakyat hanggang college. Yan po ang style ng recruitment. So, sa tingin n'yo po ba, sagot pa din ito ng DepEd Secretary at ng Vice President na lumaban na dito sa terorista, noong mayor pa lang siya? 2302 06:06:56,280 --> 06:06:57,100 Cylene May L. Del Campo: No, mate. 2303 06:06:57,380 --> 06:07:00,440 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Oo, hindi. Ma'am, bilis, 42. Just yes or no? 2304 06:07:02,620 --> 06:07:05,140 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Depende pa din po kasi yun sa mandate ng agency. 2305 06:07:05,140 --> 06:07:07,700 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Oo lang po, oo hindi. Sa palagay n'yo po ba? 2306 06:07:09,580 --> 06:07:12,580 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: O sige, skip na po natin kung ano yung sagutin. Alam n 2307 06:07:12,580 --> 06:07:22,520 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: 'yo po ba na sinabi ng NICA, ng National Intelligence Coordinating Agency, na ang budget ng NPA, 2016 to 2018, ay 5.8 billion? 2308 06:07:25,080 --> 06:07:25,620 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Oo 2309 06:07:25,620 --> 06:07:26,460 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: po o hindi? 2310 06:07:28,820 --> 06:07:29,380 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ma 2311 06:07:29,380 --> 06:07:30,020 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: 'am, please. 2312 06:07:30,300 --> 06:07:31,480 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Ano, pwede pong pakialit? 2313 06:07:31,700 --> 06:07:35,440 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ang budget daw po ng NPA is 5.8 billion. 2314 06:07:37,330 --> 06:07:37,810 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Alam n 2315 06:07:37,810 --> 06:07:39,150 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: 'yo po ba yun? Sinabi po ng NICA. 2316 06:07:39,950 --> 06:07:42,190 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi ko po na-relig yun sa inyo. 2317 06:07:42,310 --> 06:07:49,050 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Sa palagay n'yo po ba, sapat yung budget na magkano po ba ang sinasabi n'yo? 500 million ba ang naibigay? 2318 06:07:50,870 --> 06:07:51,350 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kasama 2319 06:07:51,350 --> 06:07:53,910 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: na po yung sa Vice President at sa DepEd. 2320 06:07:54,470 --> 06:07:55,050 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kumpara n 2321 06:07:55,050 --> 06:07:57,450 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: 'yo po sa 5.8 billion. Sapat po ba yun? 2322 06:07:57,850 --> 06:08:05,990 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pero kasi yung sa nabanggit po ng NICA is... Mako-cover na din po nila bilang isa sila sa mga agencies with... So 2323 06:08:05,990 --> 06:08:07,410 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: alam nyo po yung sinabi na Nika. 2324 06:08:09,210 --> 06:08:09,810 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Alam nyo po. 2325 06:08:10,030 --> 06:08:11,010 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Hindi ko po nalinig yun. 2326 06:08:11,010 --> 06:08:11,030 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Yung 2327 06:08:11,030 --> 06:08:22,280 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: tungkol lang po sa estudyante. Kasi alam nyo naman po, sa ngayon, ang nasa front na inilalagay ay mga estudyante. Nabalitaan nyo po ba yung mga namatay nung huli? Ng mga estudyante? 2328 06:08:22,740 --> 06:08:24,620 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yung mga violence po sa school? 2329 06:08:25,160 --> 06:08:37,940 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, ito na lang po. Eight seconds na lang po ako. January 1, 2024, sinabi po ng AFP. na there is no more guerrilla active front. So, ibig sabihin po, successful. 2330 06:08:39,450 --> 06:08:40,910 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Based mo sa AFP. 2331 06:08:40,910 --> 06:08:41,630 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Salamat po. 2332 06:08:42,840 --> 06:08:45,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Marcos, for the last intervention. 2333 06:08:47,810 --> 06:08:53,230 Sen. Imee Marcos: Maraming salamat, Presiding Judge. Simple lang, i-confirm ko lang sa ating testigo. 2334 06:08:54,760 --> 06:09:07,580 Sen. Imee Marcos: So I just like to confirm kung tama sabihin na as of now there's no official finding na may fraud sa DepEdMan o sa OVP. Tama po ba? No fraud finding as of now. 2335 06:09:08,200 --> 06:09:11,580 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi nga po, compliance audit lang po ginagawa namin sa IFAO. Tama. 2336 06:09:11,580 --> 06:09:39,920 Sen. Imee Marcos: Compliance audit lamang, walang fraud audit. Ikalawa, narinig kita kanina na kapag compliance audit, eh base sa dokumento lang. Limited kayo sa dokumentong isinabmit ng ahensya. Kung ganun, yung House of Representatives, hindi namang bahagi ng OVP or DepEd. Wala namang sinabmit sa COA, diba? May sinabmit pa sila yung Congress. Committee on Good Governance. May sinabit na dokumento? 2337 06:09:40,560 --> 06:09:51,900 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Yun po kasi based on other information na po after nilang mag-liquidate. Na naging available information after the liquidation na kinonsider po namin sa audit. 2338 06:09:52,100 --> 06:10:02,720 Sen. Imee Marcos: Hindi, ibig ko sabihin, yung congressional transcript ni Acosta y Fajarda, hindi yun bahagi ng dokumentong isinumite ng mga ahensya. 2339 06:10:05,160 --> 06:10:10,430 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Walay siya, di ba? Pero ginamit din po namin yung information na yun during our audit. 2340 06:10:10,510 --> 06:10:18,810 Sen. Imee Marcos: Bakit humingi ka rin ba ng apidavit? Kasi hindi naman binigay ng agency. Kasi sabi mo lang kapag compliance audit, dokumentong galing sa ahensya. 2341 06:10:18,970 --> 06:10:26,270 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pero yun po is relevant information po na ginamit namin for audit po, na sinama namin sa pag-audit. 2342 06:10:26,430 --> 06:10:42,670 Sen. Imee Marcos: Yes, following po, the presiding judge, bakit po ganun, kanina sinabi mo, dapat dokumento na sinabit ng ahensya, biglang ngayon, pati transcript, pati iba pang mga katibayan na sinasabi, eh ginagamit na rin. Eh hindi na compliance audit yun, hindi ba? 2343 06:10:43,110 --> 06:10:49,370 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Pero yun po kasi is related pa din dun sa liquidation which is discovered after the submission of the liquidation documents. 2344 06:10:49,930 --> 06:11:11,550 Sen. Imee Marcos: Kaya nga nalilito kami kasi bakit dinisallow lahat ng quarter samantalang pinag-uusapan ni Acosta eh iisa lang, di ba? Yung last quarter lamang. Eh doon nga sa transcript, doon lumilitaw yun. So ngayon, tinatanggap na rin pati mga transcript at iba pa. Hindi na dokumento yun as covered by compliance audit by your own definition, di ba? 2345 06:11:12,460 --> 06:11:16,180 Cylene May L. Del Campo: relevant yung information po in the conduct of the audit. Kung may relevant 2346 06:11:16,180 --> 06:11:28,540 Sen. Imee Marcos: sa dyaryo, tatanggapin rin ninyo na evidentia rin yun, compliance audit pa rin yun, kahit nasa dyaryo, nasa social media. Kung sa palagay mo may kinalaman dun sa kaso, tatanggapin ninyo. 2347 06:11:28,620 --> 06:11:36,160 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Kasi nga po, dun sa circular, pwede kaming mag-dependent sa other documents deemed necessary sa audit po. 2348 06:11:37,900 --> 06:11:43,780 Sen. Imee Marcos: So, puwede, miss, kaya anong dokumento? Parang lumalabo yata yung joint circular. Maraming salamat po. 2349 06:11:47,420 --> 06:12:07,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Again, that would be the last round for this witness. Miss Aileen, salamat po sa inyong kooperasyon, salamat sa inyong pasensya, salamat sa pagsagot sa lahat ng tanong mula sa magkabilang panig, gayon din mula sa mga senator-judges. You are excused, ma'am, and thank you very much for your time and cooperation. 2350 06:12:08,060 --> 06:12:09,060 Cylene May L. Del Campo: Thank you, po, Your Honor. 2351 06:12:09,510 --> 06:12:28,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ingat po kayo. As I understand it, we issued subpoenas for Fajarda, Acosta, and Pareja for only up to today. Will we be issuing subpoenas for the three witnesses again for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, Lead Prosecutor? 2352 06:12:28,690 --> 06:12:32,810 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: We confirm, Your Honor. We just want to put on record that... 2353 06:12:32,810 --> 06:12:33,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can 2354 06:12:33,330 --> 06:12:33,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you place on 2355 06:12:33,810 --> 06:12:35,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: record the order? Yes. We 2356 06:12:35,790 --> 06:13:36,820 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: are moving for the reissuance of subpoena at testificandum for the following trial dates, August 17, 18, and 19, to the same witnesses as follows. One is Ms. Marivic Pareja, the House of Representatives Legislative Information Bureau Director. Second is Ms. Gina F. Acosta. the former Special Disbursing Officer of the OVP or Office of the Vice President. The third is Edward Fajarda, the former Special Disbursing Officer of the Department of Education. We understand, Your Honor, that the Honorable Impeachment Court already noted the respective addresses. However, please note that the subpoena for Edward D. Fajarda must be addressed to the office of the Vice President as well. Yes, 2357 06:13:36,940 --> 06:13:39,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: because he's already transferred to that office. 2358 06:13:39,740 --> 06:14:12,990 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: In line with our intention as well to maximize our time in presenting the prosecution's witnesses, we are likewise requesting for the issuance of subpoena at testificandum to Lemuel G. Ortoño, Assistant Secretary, Assistant Chief of Staff. of the office of the Vice President with the same address at OVP office, Your Honor, in Mandaluyong City. So this is the fourth one. Sorry, Your Honor. 2359 06:14:13,110 --> 06:14:14,010 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: This is the fourth one. 2360 06:14:14,090 --> 06:14:30,740 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: This is the fourth one, Your Honor. And we would like to put on record as well that the written manifestation with request Four subpoenas at testificandum has been furnished to the defense and has been filed with the Office of the Clerk of Court of the Honorable Impeachment Court. 2361 06:14:30,860 --> 06:14:52,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And the Chair would like to remind the lead counsel to kindly furnish the counsel for the respondent any requested stipulation for documents you may want to prior. to the scheduled trial on Monday. So hopefully within the day or tomorrow. So they can already comment on it in open court on Monday. 2362 06:14:52,580 --> 06:14:53,720 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: We submit, Your Honor. 2363 06:14:54,500 --> 06:14:57,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other matter you want to take up, counsel, for respondent? 2364 06:14:57,240 --> 06:15:21,790 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, good afternoon. I confirm receipt of the manifestation with the request for subpoena sa testificandum for... The four intended witnesses of the prosecution for next week. I would just like to inquire the order in which the prosecution intends to present these four witnesses. Specifically, who would be their witness on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Just for our guidance. 2365 06:15:22,430 --> 06:15:31,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I believe it is in the order stated Pareja, followed by Acosta, followed by Fajarda, and then Ortonio, Your Honor. 2366 06:15:32,240 --> 06:15:33,440 Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano: We confirm, Your Honor. 2367 06:15:33,560 --> 06:15:40,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In that order. So the subpoena for Antonio will be issued only on 18 and 19 because surely we cannot take him up on the 17th. 2368 06:15:40,920 --> 06:18:31,280 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you for the clarity, Your Honor. Second item is that we also would like to confirm that as of today, in response to the directive of the presiding officer, we have not yet received any request for any potential stipulations or any factual stipulations to prosecution. intends to ask from the defense. However, the more important manifestation that I would like to make today, Your Honor, is in relation to a social media post that I happened to see. And this was posted at 11.29 a.m. by one of the private prosecutors, Atty. Amando Virgil Ligutan, posting that a principal, or lawyers and law students know by heart, Misleading questions are not allowed even in cross-examination. Now, this was posted and picked up by inquire.net at 11.29 a.m. today. And I surmise that this has something to do with the exchange between the private prosecutor, Attorney Capunan, and the defense counsel, Attorney Ferrer, on the matter of the... cross-examination question that Attorney Federer asked the prosecution's witness. And I have here a transcript because I find it troubling that a private prosecutor would do this in the middle of a courtroom hearing. Because as far as I'm concerned, impeachment court is also a court of decorum. And the rules on impeachment under Rule 18 Actually prohibits participants, especially lawyers, from commenting about the merits of the case. Now, one may argue that this isn't about the merits of the case, that he probably was just commenting about what ought or ought not to do in a cross-examination. But we, you know, we're not naive. What the private prosecutor is talking about is here. He can explain it. He can explain himself if the presiding officer so desires. But I really just find it in bad... I think it is inappropriate to do that to a fellow member of the bar because even as we sit on the opposing side of this hall, we remain to be both members of the bar and as officers of the court, we owe each other respect, you know, politeness or even kindness. And it doesn't take one to be a lawyer to know that the first thing that our parents teach us to do is humility. Your Honor? No, I'm not yet done, Your Honor. 2369 06:18:34,170 --> 06:21:04,630 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: In fact, I have asked one of our lawyers to review the actual transcript from the video that conspired between the prosecutor and attorney. Ferrer, and it would seem that in the heat of the exchange or in the passionate exchange of the arguments between the prosecutor and Attorney Ferrer, Attorney Ferrer was not even actually referring to misleading questions as allowed, as implied in the social media posts of Attorney Ligutan. In fact, It's here. The court can confirm this from a replay of the video. Atty. Ferrer, sinabi ho ba yan sa JC na dapat may mahuli? The witness answers, ang nakalagay po kasi sa JC under 4.8.2 ay proof of success. Atty. Ferrer, hindi. Sorry, Your Honor, please. Atty. Capunan, let the witness answer, Your Honor. Mr. Presiding Officer, can the counsel be instructed not to stop the witness mid-sentence, Your Honor? Atty. Ferrer, Your Honor, please, can the witness be directed to just answer with yes or no? The counsel has her time to ask clarificatory questions later during redirect, Your Honor. Atty. Kapuna, not all questions, not all questions can be answered by yes or no. This is the myth! of the contention of the argument between Atty. Capunan and Atty. Ferrer. Atty. Ferrer responded, I am on cross, Your Honor, please. And the presiding officer said, counsels. Atty. Capunan responded, never mind if you are on cross, Your Honor. There are limits to cross-examination. Misleading questions are not allowed on cross. This was the first time that the matter on misleading questions was actually raised by Atty. Capunan. And Atty. In effect, Atty. Ferrer was only saying that leading questions are allowed. On cross-examination, not misleading questions, and yet we have a private prosecutor immediately taking to social media and posting this implying something against the defense counsel. We will not have this. 2370 06:21:05,780 --> 06:21:14,780 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, in the interest of fair play, may I request that counsel for the panel of prosecutors? Atty. Virgilio couldn't be recognized. 2371 06:21:14,880 --> 06:22:06,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Unfortunately, counsel, no, the presiding officer will not allow that at this time. The presiding officer takes in advisement the manifestation of the lead counsel for the respondent because quite frankly, Honorable Luistro, I asked the clerk of court to monitor the public statements of the counsels of the parties this past week. And one side has been crossing the line many, many times. In fact, the presiding officer has already is already in the process of drafting a ruling and a warning and an order pertaining to this. Because clearly, I can even name all of you who have been commenting on social media in violation of Rule 18 of the Impeachment Rules. 2372 06:22:08,330 --> 06:22:17,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But I will do that on Monday, perhaps, after taking advisement, the manifestation of the Council for Respondent. It's not really so much. 2373 06:22:18,780 --> 06:23:34,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Being cordial or nice or kind but it's a basic violation of Rule 18. I already talked to the parties two weeks ago reminding you that you might want to consider appointing spokespersons who are not part of the panel of prosecutors nor a private prosecutor but you insist on maintaining that. So after two weeks, the court is constrained to make a decision and ruling on that. But we will do that on Monday with the permission of both counsels. Then we will hear you, counsel, and we will hear Attorney Ligutan prior to the court's ruling on the matter. But be advised that again, we have it all on tape. We have been monitoring everything. We may not enumerate it one by one. but we will make the corresponding ruling on Monday. Thank you for bringing that up, counsel. It gives me a reason to actually issue the ruling which we have prepared and have been preparing the past few days. On Monday, Attorney Ligutan, we will hear you before we make the ruling. Thank you. There being no other matter to be taken up by the trial and by the court, we hereby adjourn until Monday, August 17, still at 10 a.m. 2374 06:23:35,140 --> 06:23:37,000 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor.