# August 12, 2026

Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Duterte

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvNG9-cWI3E
Status: Reviewed working draft, revision 5

**[00:05:52.780] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Senate President, the Presiding Officer, and the Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

**[00:06:23.990] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The

**[00:06:27.700] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sergeant

**[00:06:41.960] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
at Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

**[00:06:45.950] Alfredo Sotto Corpuz**  
All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:06:56.720] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo.

**[00:07:06.180] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Sa

**[00:07:20.570] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
ngalan ng Ama ng Anak na Espiritu Santo, Amen. Aming mapagmahal na Diyos, bigyan mo po ng malinaw na pag-iisip, malinis na konsensya at matatag na panihindigan ang mga senador na nagsisilbing mga hukom ngayon. Nawa'y maging patas at walang kinikilingan ang aming paghatol. Hindi dahil sa politika, personal na interes, opinion ng publiko o anumang impluensya. Higit sa lahat, Panginoon, huwag mong hayaang ang hatul ay maimpluensyahan ng social media. Naway hindi siya mahatulan dahil lamang sa ingay ng mga opinion online at hindi rin siya mapawalang sala dahil sa popularidad o suporta ng iba. Ang maging batayan lamang sana ay ang katotohanan Ang batas at ang mga ebidensya ang iniharap sa paglilitis. Kung tunay nga na walang sala si Vice President Sara Duterte, bigyan mo ng tapang at karunungang kaming mga hukom na siya ay agad na mapawalang sala. Ngunit, kung ang mga ebidensya ay malinaw, matibay at sapat upang patunayang siya ay nagkasala, bigyan mo rin kami ng katatagaan na siya ay panagutin na naaayon sa batas. Panginoon, naway maging mabilis ngunit makatarungan ang paglilitis na ito. Huwag naway itong patagalin ng walang sapat na dahilan sa pagkatunay na ang kasabihang justice delayed is justice denied. Sa huli, naway hindi ang politika, social media o popular na opinion ang manaig kundi ang katotohanan, katarungan at kapakanan ng sambayan ng Pilipino. Ito ang aming sinasamo sa inyo, Panginoon. Amen.

**[00:09:04.650] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Amen. The Clerk of Court will now call the roll.

**[00:09:08.050] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Roll call of members

**[00:09:08.870] Unknown speaker**  
...

**[00:09:09.010] Unknown speaker**  
...

**[00:09:11.000] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Senator-Judge Aquino, Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan, Senator-Judge Cayetano Pia, Senator-Judge De La Rosa, Senator-Judge Ejercito, Senator-Judge Estrada, Senator-Judge Goh, Senator-Judge Ontiveros, Senator-Judge Lacson, Senator-Judge Lapid, Senator-Judge Legarda, Senator-Judge Marcoleta, Senator-Judge Marcos. Senator-Judge Padilla, Senator-Judge Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Soto III, Senator-Judge Tulfo Erwin, Senator-Judge Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge Villanueva, Senator-Judge Villar Camil, Senator-Judge Villar Marc, Senator-Judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge Escudero, Senate President, Senator-Judge Gachalian. With

**[00:09:55.680] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
With 18 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum.

**[00:10:01.070] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trial, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

**[00:10:11.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the Journal of August 11, 2026 of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and shall consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court.

**[00:10:29.710] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:10:36.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Appearances of the parties.

**[00:10:41.360] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Same appearance for the public prosecutors. We are ready, Your Honor.

**[00:10:46.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Same appearance for the respondent, Your Honor. We are ready.

**[00:10:50.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Chair would like to direct the Clerk of Court through the OSA to kindly escort the witness, Ms. Aileen, to the witness stand. to continue with her testimony.

**[00:11:07.870] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor.

**[00:11:10.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
While she is being led to the witness stand, yes, what is the pleasure of the Honorable Chua?

**[00:11:15.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, I understand that this is a continuation of the direct testimony of our witness. May we request the counsel for the prosecutor, Atty. Kapunin, be recognized, Your Honor, please.

**[00:11:26.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I believe the counsel for the panel of prosecutors, Atty. Lorna, terminated her direct yesterday. We are on cross today.

**[00:11:34.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is that correct, Attorney Lorna?

**[00:11:37.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
How is your platform, ma 'am?

**[00:11:42.210] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
I pray that I do not fall from the apple cart. Your Honor, please, good morning, Mr. Presiding Officer, Honorable Impeachment Senate Judges, Senate Court Judges. We are disturbed, Your Honor. Although yesterday we terminated our direct examination, we are disturbed by a manifestation of counsel for the respondent when she said that the marking of the tabulations and summaries will no way be an admission, Your Honor, as to the authenticity of the acknowledgement receipts which form part of the tabulation and the summary, Your Honor. We therefore are constrained unless council now is willing to stipulate that the summaries which really and the tabulation which was really personally prepared by this competent witness of the COA ICFAO which office received and all acknowledgement receipts have an attestation that they are certified true copies of the person who has custody of the same, Your Honor. May we inquire from counsel of respondent if again, although the presiding officer did make it clear that when each individual acknowledgement receipt is presented, they have the right to cross-examine. And we have the right to ask the witness. Our concern, Your Honor, is the next witnesses that we will be presenting will not have any personal knowledge of this acknowledgement receipts. They will not be able to identify and authenticate. The only person who can do that, Your Honor, is the current witness, Sylene May del Campo. Now, we are constrained, Your Honor. To save the time of this honorable court, this presiding officer will recall that it also ordered, Your Honor, that the prosecution and the defense submit separately the list of documents, specifically acknowledgement receipts, to the Clerk of Court which office will be the one to make the comparison, Your Honor. Can we modify that order, Your Honor? Can we request, Your Honor, that in addition to the Clerk of Court comparing comparing the prosecution evidence and the defense evidence, an exercise which should have been done Thursday and Friday last week, Your Honor, that instead of just doing that, that this witness appear before the clerk of court to identify and authenticate, Your Honor, these documents in front of the prosecution, in front of the defense. and in front of the Clerk of Court. Thereafter, the Clerk of Court can make a finding or report or evaluation that these documents, I'm sorry, that these documents were properly identified, authenticated by this witness, Your Honor, to preempt any technical legal objection in the future. because, Your Honor, or in the formal offer, Your Honor, because counsel will recall, and this court will recall that while we had already ended our direct examination, counsel for respondents said that does not mean that this witness identified and authenticated the acknowledgement receipts. And therefore, Your Honor, if we may respectfully request the presiding officer to authorize or to designate the Clerk of Court to accept,

**[00:16:35.380] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, not only the documents but likewise for this witness to appear before the Clerk of Court in front of counsels for both respondent and the prosecution to enable this witness to identify and authenticate based on personal knowledge, Your Honor, the documents that are part of the summaries, Your Honor. This way, Your Honor, we will not have to present again acknowledgement receipts this morning and identify each and every one. So, in sum, Your Honor, my manifestation is to the effect that we expand The directive of the presiding officer directing

**[00:17:30.770] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
the parties to separately submit their documents and for the clerk to himself, itself, clerk of court's office to itself, make the comparison. We want to expand it to include that this witness, Ms. Silene, appear before the clerk of court. in the presence of counsels for the petitioner and for the respondent for the purpose of one, identifying, and two, authenticating the documents in the tabulation, sir. This will save the court two hours today. Your Honor,

**[00:18:16.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please. Counsel, before you respond, Attorney Christine, Counsel, Does your manifestation have anything to do with the fact that you've wound up your direct? Does that mean you intend to proceed with your direct again today?

**[00:18:29.390] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
No, Your Honor. So your

**[00:18:31.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
direct is done?

**[00:18:32.350] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
It's a manifestation

**[00:18:33.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
in regard to the ARs?

**[00:18:35.350] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, it depends on the discretion of the presiding officer. If the presiding officer will allow this witness to appear before the clerk of court, In front of both councils, Your Honor, for the purpose of identifying and authenticating the documents presented, Your Honor, then we will terminate our direct examination.

**[00:18:58.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I believe you already did yesterday, counsel.

**[00:19:01.250] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Your Honor, but under the control, we, private prosecutor, Your Honor, is under the control and supervision of the public, panel of public prosecutors who had expressed to this representation their concern. about a possible objection, a technical objection of the defense counsel on the issue of identification and authentication of these separate acknowledgement receipts. So, Your Honor.

**[00:19:32.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the interest of moving forward, don't worry, Atty. Sailin. No need to comment. The Chair will make a ruling. Last night, The acknowledgement receipts that came from the counsel for respondents were submitted already to the Clerk of Court for comparison with the ARs of the prosecution. Both are certified through copies, although some ARs are certified by a different certifying officer from COA, but both are certified through copies and we will proceed with the comparison. It was clear from the witness yesterday and it's clear to the court that she based her tabulation on the ARs that she said were all certified by the same person. That's your copy, counsel. And we took note of that and acknowledged that. These are certified true copies from both sides as you will compare to avoid that situation from happening. And we will be ruling on the admissibility of these ARs once it is formally offered based on this comparison. Without need for Silene really to tell us that they look alike or are alike. But counsel, as of yesterday, insofar as the randomly picked or well-chosen ARs yesterday, counsel for the respondent did not raise their copies. Apparently, or we will know now at cross, apparently there is no discrepancy or difference when you are presenting those ARs to the witness.

**[00:21:06.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And again, that is their right. to present their copy because their theory is they're questioning, correct me if I'm wrong, Atty. Sailin, the chain of custody. It might have been broken. But if it's not broken insofar as the ARs and after we compare it, then there is no need to further belabor this point. We will rule on the matter, counsel, at the appropriate time. But I'm telling you already where the court is at this point in time in relation to the ARs that Sailin testified to and where she based her tables and summaries upon. And that is the copies of the prosecutor.

**[00:21:43.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I hope that settles the issue, counsel.

**[00:21:46.370] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I think with that ruling, it is now clear that identification and authentication are presumed from the statement of the Presiding Officer subject to cross-examination. of counsel for the respondent, Your Honor. And

**[00:22:06.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
subject to the comparison that the clerk will be making of these copies coming from both parties, which you will make known to the parties without need of Silene's presence thereat.

**[00:22:16.740] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
My last manifestation, Your Honor, and this is for purposes of clarity, because at the end of yesterday's hearing, the party stayed, counsel, counsel for both parties stayed to mark the tabulations, Your Honor. And for purposes of the record, Can we just state, for the office of the Vice President, tabulations were marked in front of the Clerk of Court after the hearing, P-1-29, for December 2022, last quarter, the period, December 2021.

**[00:22:53.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Before you continue, counsel, the one you mentioned is the one made by Atty. Wamil.

**[00:22:58.970] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:23:00.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And the subsequent ones will be the ones made by Ms. Aileen.

**[00:23:04.070] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:23:04.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed.

**[00:23:05.770] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
So, these have been marked after the hearing, Your Honor, upon direction of the presiding officer so as to make efficient use of time of the impeachment court. So, for the last quarter, tabulation made by Mr. Wamil, Attorney Wamil, was marked yesterday as P-1-29. For the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it's P-1-30. For the second quarter of the Office of the Vice President, it is P-1-31. And for the third quarter of the Office of the Vice President, marked as P-1-32. Before the Clerk of Court, and in the presence of Defense Respondents Council and Prosecutions Council. A summary of these tabulations was likewise marked for December 2022 P-1-29-1, which we have now, Your Honor, P-1-30-1 for the first quarter of the Office of the Vice President. p-1-31-1 for the second quarter and p-1-32-1 also which we have now, Your Honor, for the third quarter. For the deathbed, Your Honor, we likewise mark at the end of yesterday's hearing tabulations prepared personally by this witness and identified before the impeachment court. p-1-33

**[00:24:49.450] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
for the first quarter, p-1-34 for the second quarter, and p-1-35, all tabulations. For the summary, Your Honor, of these tabulations, p-1-33-1 for the first quarter of the DepEd, p-1-34-1 for the second quarter, of the DepEd, and P-1-35-1, Your Honors, for the third quarter of the DepEd. With that, Your Honor, unless counsel...

**[00:25:32.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Duly noted, counsel. The markings are mentioned by Atty. Capunan, Atty. Lorna. Duly noted.

**[00:25:39.410] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
We need, therefore, reiterate that we have terminated our direct examination, Your Honor.

**[00:25:44.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you very much, counsel. Attorney Christine, you may proceed with your cross when you are ready. You may proceed, ma'am.

**[00:25:50.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:25:53.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Good morning, Celine. Is that the way that you pronounce your name, Celine? Sylene. Sylene, okay. So, you have been with the COA since 2014, right?

**[00:26:07.470] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
August 26, 2014 po.

**[00:26:10.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
August 26. So that is around 12 years already.

**[00:26:14.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, magti-12 years. Okay.

**[00:26:17.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
You assumed the accounts of the Vice President, the audit of the confidential funds of the Vice President and the DepEd when Attorney Wamil was reassigned to COA, Pasay, correct?

**[00:26:33.830] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:26:35.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Curious lang ako, Ms. Cylene, was that reassignment a promotion or just a plain reassignment, if you know?

**[00:26:43.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung kay Mr. Wamil

**[00:26:45.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po? Yes. Na-reassign po siya. Reassignment lang.

**[00:26:48.710] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, that was on February 12, 2024.

**[00:26:55.360] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:26:56.640] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, Mr. Wamil was the one who prepared the AOMs.

**[00:27:03.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
for the fourth quarter of 2024 for the OVP. Tama?

**[00:27:10.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung AOM po is for the fourth quarter of 2022. Ah,

**[00:27:15.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
2022 rather. Okay. And he also prepared the AOM for the first and second quarter of 2023 ng OVP. Okay. So, we will go back to that, no? So, when Mr. Wamil Reassigned to you his account? Was there any office memorandum that was issued by the COA reassigning you as the examiner?

**[00:27:43.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The question is misleading, Your Honor. It is not Mr. Wamil who reassigned the account to her. She just occupied the position, Your Honor.

**[00:27:52.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The question was if there was an office memorandum reassigning her to take over from Wamil, not Wamil himself. Witness may answer?

**[00:28:00.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa assignment po kasi namin, ang hawak namin...

**[00:28:04.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Just

**[00:28:04.710] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please answer the question. Was there an office memorandum assigning you to handle the accounts of the OVP and the DepEd, particularly the confidential audit of these two offices?

**[00:28:17.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron po kaming order na ako po ang assigned na maghahawak ng national government agencies.

**[00:28:23.830] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Particularly the office of the Vice President and the DepEd. Meron po kayo nun.

**[00:28:28.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ask and answer, Your Honor.

**[00:28:30.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, my question was specific. I'm referring to the DepEd and the OVP.

**[00:28:35.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness may answer.

**[00:28:36.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
These are national agencies. Your Honor, please, can the counsel allow me to continue my question? Ask

**[00:28:41.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
and answer, Your Honor. Witness may answer, Councils.

**[00:28:45.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
May memorandum po ba na nag-assign sa inyo specifically sa DepEd at OVP?

**[00:28:50.220] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung memorandum po is naka-assign ako sa national government agencies.

**[00:28:55.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
All?

**[00:28:56.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[00:28:57.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay,

**[00:28:57.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll accept that answer, Your Honor.

**[00:29:00.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Was it Mr. Wamil who personally turned over his files to you?

**[00:29:08.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Iliwan po niya yung files niya sa office po nung malipat po siya sa COA Pasay. Sa

**[00:29:14.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kaninong office sa'yo or kaninong office ba?

**[00:29:17.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa custodian po namin sa COA Ikfaw.

**[00:29:20.630] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, meron mo ba siyang iniwan na... endorsement sa inyo na ito lahat yung mga files na iniwan ko for this particular account, meron ho ba? For the OVP, meron ho bang siyang iniwan na endorsement?

**[00:29:35.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung mismo mga files po, iniwan po niya sa custodian namin.

**[00:29:39.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ah, endorsement ho, like letter, a summary containing all the, containing a list of the files that he turned over to the custodian, meron ho bang ganon?

**[00:29:51.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron po kaming logbook pag natapos na po yung...

**[00:29:54.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Logbook. Okay, pero dala mo ba yun ngayon?

**[00:29:57.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[00:29:58.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So how about... Doon sa DepEd, may iniwan ho ba siyang transmittal doon sa kustodyan na ito lahat yung mga iniwan kong files with regard to the audit of the DepEd Confidential Funds? Meron ho ba?

**[00:30:13.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang iniwan po niya is yung mismong document.

**[00:30:15.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung mismong document. So walang transmittal na iniwan ho doon sa kustodyan?

**[00:30:21.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, yung mismong documents po yun. Okay,

**[00:30:23.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sige.

**[00:30:25.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
May iniwan ho ba si Mr. Wamil sa inyo? Diba sabi niyo, may mga documents ho siyang iniwan? Diba pag nag-audit ho tayo, meron ho tayong tinatawag na working papers, yung mga drafts po natin. May iniwan ho si Mr. Wamil sa inyo nun? Your

**[00:30:39.790] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, please, again, the question is misleading. This witness already said, asked and answered that Mr. Wamil did not leave documents to her. Mr. Wamil left the documents to the office.

**[00:30:53.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I will

**[00:30:53.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
rephrase. I will rephrase.

**[00:30:55.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly

**[00:30:55.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
rephrase, counsel. May iniwan bang worksheets sa kustodyan?

**[00:30:58.790] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po. Nakasama po dun sa files yung mga working papers po. Alright.

**[00:31:05.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. I'll take that answer.

**[00:31:10.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kayo po, paano nyo kinuha yung mga files na yun? Kinuha nyo lang diretsyo sa kustodyan? Ano pong proseso

**[00:31:19.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
nun? Nung ma-assign po sa akin yung sa OBP at sa DepEd, nung nag-submit po sila ng response, binigay po sa akin yung response together with the documents na pinagbasehan po nung audit observation memorandum po. Ah,

**[00:31:35.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
okay. So, in short, niroute lang sa'yo yung response.

**[00:31:38.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Tama, ho? Response together with yung AOM, together with the attachment po na yung mga dokumento.

**[00:31:44.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, ah... Kailan ho yan ni-route sa inyo? Yung response, yung AOM,

**[00:31:50.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
mga estimate lang po. Iba-iba po kasi diba ang una is yung March 13, 2024 na response nila sa NS. Naibigay po sa akin to March 14. Yung sa iba po hindi ko na matandaan yung exact dates pero malapit po dun sa after masubmit yung response.

**[00:32:08.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. I'll take that answer. Okay. So... One meal prepared the AOM for the fourth quarter of 2022 for the Office of the Vice President. Tama po?

**[00:32:21.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[00:32:22.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
How about the first to third quarters of 2023? Sino ba yung nag-prepare ng...

**[00:32:30.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
AOMs na yun, dalawa ho yun. Yung sa OBP po, na first and second quarter 2023, nandun pa po siya nung ma-issue po yung AOM. Yung sa third quarter po, siya yung nag-draft, pero nung na-finalize na po yun, wala na po siya sa COA-ICFAO. So, yung custody po ng document na yun, nasa division chief. Kaya nung finalize po yun, division chief na po yung nag-finalize. Okay. So, alright.

**[00:33:01.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, we will flash these AOMs. Kasi nga si Mr. Wamil nga yung nag-prepare nung iba sa kanila.

**[00:33:10.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige.

**[00:33:18.150] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
May we know from counsel which AOM she will be flashing? Is it the defendant's document or the prosecution's document? Because the defendant's documents were not identified nor presented to this witness.

**[00:33:36.050] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Then

**[00:33:36.690] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
if counsel wants to... confront the witness with documents she has identified. She has to use the prosecution's evidence because that was the one identified by the witness. If she now intends to present the defense documents, they are not documents that have been identified nor authenticated by this witness during her testimony. We will

**[00:34:02.480] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
have a

**[00:34:03.780] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
continuing objection. Excuse me, counsel. We will have a continuing objection to their presenting their documents which have not been identified by the witness. They are AOMs. AOMs have been identified by the witness but these are prosecution's AOMs, Your Honor. May I suggest, Your Honor, to the defense counsel since she refused for us to use the defense witnesses that she uses now, the prosecution's documents.

**[00:34:36.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That is up to her, counsel. She may confront the witness with their copy of the AAM. I'm sure she would be competent to testify whether these are the same documents earlier identified as exhibits for the prosecution or not. Counsel, you may proceed.

**[00:34:50.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, correct, Your Honor. And they're AOMs. We did not dispute those. So we have the same copies. Can we proceed, counsel?

**[00:34:56.160] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
In connection with that, Your Honor, since counsel admits that our AAMs are their... defendants, AOMs. Can we just use the prosecution's copies, Your Honor?

**[00:35:07.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
But, Your Honor, we have prepared, you know, visually using them. Show them. Show the document. Yeah, I will. I am showing the defense document. No, we will not agree. No,

**[00:35:16.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, the counsel cannot dictate how I will proceed with my cross-examination. Can the counsel, Your Honor, be reminded that I'm on cross-examination?

**[00:35:23.910] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
We will not agree, Your Honor, to the presentation of defense documents. because precisely there was no stipulation yesterday. They are now constrained. Excuse me, counsel.

**[00:35:35.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Allow her to finish,

**[00:35:36.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel. They are

**[00:35:37.260] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
now constrained, Your Honor. I'm sorry. They are now constrained to use our documents precisely. This is what we wanted to avoid yesterday. Had we did a comparison, not to belabor the obvious, Your Honor, but now counsel says, anyway, it's the same. So if it's the same, what's the objection to using the prosecution's document?

**[00:35:58.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, that water is already under the bridge. You may request assisting counsel to check the copy being presented to Ms. Aileen and you may make this the subject matter of your redirect later on. Allow counsel to present Thank you, Your Honor. The presenting

**[00:36:15.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
officer will allow the counsel to present that document but notes the continuing objection of Atty. Capone with respect to this matter. Thank

**[00:36:23.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you,

**[00:36:23.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor. Okay.

**[00:36:25.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, I am presenting you the AOMs that were issued to the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd.

**[00:36:43.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, the first AOM is dated September 14, 2023. It's AOM number 2023- 211.

**[00:37:01.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The

**[00:37:02.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
assisting counsel can check this copy. Anyway,

**[00:37:10.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I can dispense with that. The second AOM is October 3, 2023. Now, I will direct you to the last page. It says here RCW, JMQ, GAC, RRS, and BP. So, RCW is Roderick C. Wamil, correct?

**[00:37:33.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:37:34.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Who is JMQ?

**[00:37:37.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dati pong staff namin sa ICFAO. GAC? Division Chief po ng IGFAO.

**[00:37:45.270] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
If you can state her name or his name?

**[00:37:49.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Si Atty. Gloria A. Camora.

**[00:37:52.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. This is Gloria A. Camora. RRS? Dati din pong...

**[00:37:57.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
D.C. sa IKFO pero retired na po siya.

**[00:37:59.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. NBP is the

**[00:38:01.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
signatory? Opo, si Ascom Nilda Plaras.

**[00:38:04.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, we will proceed to the third AOM for the OVP that is dated February 1, 2024. So, I will direct you to the routing list. Do you agree that this

**[00:38:29.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
is a routing list? Sila po yung nag-evaluate, nag-review ng documents.

**[00:38:35.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yeah, I was about to ask you that question. Thank you for confirming. Now, it's RCW, Roderick Siwamil again, JMQ, RRS, NBP.

**[00:38:46.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama.

**[00:38:47.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. So,

**[00:38:52.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
let's go to the AOM for the OVP dated August 8, 2024.

**[00:39:03.180] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
On the last page, the routing list, it's RCW, GAC, RRS, NBP. But this is August 8, 2024.

**[00:39:17.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala

**[00:39:18.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na si Roderick Wamil dito sa ICFAO. Wala na po

**[00:39:23.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
siya pero dyan po kasi siya yung nag-draft po ng A&M. Siya

**[00:39:26.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung nag-draft

**[00:39:27.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
neto. So meaning, when...

**[00:39:31.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
He

**[00:39:31.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
drafted this. He left this doon sa records ba? Or saan?

**[00:39:35.640] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yan po kasi may draft na siya. Nasa division chief. Nasa division chief. Chief.

**[00:39:40.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, from February to August. So, ilang months yun?

**[00:39:44.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
February, March, April, May, June, July, August. After six months, doon lang na-release yung AOM. Nung wala na si Wamil. Tama?

**[00:39:53.150] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi po. Sorry.

**[00:39:55.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Just answer my question. Can you please repeat

**[00:39:58.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the question?

**[00:39:59.830] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, From February 2024, noong umalis na si Mr. Wamil, iniwan niya ito sa Division Chief na. So, na-release ito. Your Honor, preparatory nga. Sabi nga niya, i-repeat ko daw. She's laying

**[00:40:19.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the basis for question counsel. So, after

**[00:40:22.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
six months, doon lang na-release

**[00:40:27.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung AOM. Dahil po dumaan pa ito sa review. Hindi ka kasali dito sa grupo na nag-review, nag-draft. Wala, wala kang participation dito. Na-review ko po yan noong nag-evaluate na po ako ng mga responses.

**[00:40:41.900] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Binasa ko din po yan noong nag-evaluate ako ng responses sa notice of suspension.

**[00:40:46.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So in short, nakita mo lang to after it has been issued by the COA-ICFAO. Tama?

**[00:40:51.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi yun yung naging basis ko ng evaluation.

**[00:40:54.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, o. Okay,

**[00:40:55.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
okay. Next is, The audit observation memorandum for the, sorry,

**[00:41:05.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
DepEd.

**[00:41:07.660] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wait.

**[00:41:09.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, can I just confirm my concept?

**[00:41:15.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, let's go to the DepEd, ano? Sige, doon din tayo sa routing list, no? February 1, 2024, nandito pa si Roderick Guamil kasi RCW, JMQ, RRS, NDP.

**[00:41:31.450] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Alright.

**[00:41:36.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Let's go to August 8, AOM.

**[00:41:43.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
RCW, GAC, RRS, and BP. Wala na si RCW pero nasa division head.

**[00:41:50.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo,

**[00:41:50.690] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
pareho po nung sa OBP. At

**[00:41:52.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
saka na-review mo lang to nung na-issue na ng division head, ng ICFAO.

**[00:41:57.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, nung

**[00:41:58.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
mag-eevaluate na po ako ng response. Okay, sige.

**[00:42:00.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat si Lyn.

**[00:42:12.710] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, may we just note for the record? that the documents presented to this witness were defense exhibits.

**[00:42:21.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That has been noted, Your Honor.

**[00:42:24.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so punta naman nun tayo dun sa responses ng Vice President, no? Ah, nagsubmit ho sila nung letter dated April 19, 2024. Okay. At part 2 nung letter nun, nagsubmit ho sila ng protective intelligence reports. Naalala niyo po yun?

**[00:42:44.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, attachment po yun dun sa response nila.

**[00:42:46.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, David,

**[00:42:49.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
may

**[00:42:52.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
request,

**[00:42:59.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
David, to please flash our

**[00:43:03.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
assisting

**[00:43:05.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
counsel.

**[00:43:08.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, David po ang pangalan niya para pwede niyo siya i-direct kung nagkakamali siya, kung hindi niyo naayon yung fina-flash niya.

**[00:43:16.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you for that, counsel.

**[00:43:17.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, sige, punta tayo dito sa... Can we

**[00:43:20.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
also,

**[00:43:21.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, call our assistant? Counsel, Your Honor, Atty.

**[00:43:24.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
J. De

**[00:43:25.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
La Cruz.

**[00:43:26.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So,

**[00:43:29.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ito, exhibit na ito, again, we'll use our exhibit counsel.

**[00:43:34.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Itong exhibit na ito, minarkahan po as D-1 or D-1, D-115, OVP-C. So, ito po, so,

**[00:44:04.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kasama ho dun sa submission ng Office of the Vice President is a certification dated April 4, 2024. Tama ho?

**[00:44:11.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasama po yun sa response.

**[00:44:13.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat Celine. Ito ay in-issue ni Raymond Dante P. Lachica.

**[00:44:20.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama.

**[00:44:21.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so sinasabi ho dito sa first paragraph. This is to certify that the confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 127 areas during the first quarter. of CY 2023 and 111 areas during the second quarter of 2023, which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring during the engagements of the Vice President and the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabella, Incagayan, in Cagayan Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of OVP, Libreng Sakay. Do you see that, Celine?

**[00:45:11.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po.

**[00:45:12.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat.

**[00:45:14.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero sinabi n'yo sa findings n'yo na it doesn't pass the proof of success of the intelligence activities, correct?

**[00:45:25.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, under 4.8.5, hindi po sa sufficient. So,

**[00:45:29.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kasali ho dyan sa letter na yan are what we call as Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte. Nakita nyo ho ba yun?

**[00:45:43.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:45:44.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so sa bawat quarter na yun, may summary of intelligence work. Nabasa nyo ho ba yun? Yung summary po noong... Ang tanong ko... Nabasa nyo ba bawat quarter yung summary of intelligence work? Yung narrative po, yung activity, location,

**[00:46:02.480] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung timeline po, nakalagay po sa P.I.O.R. So,

**[00:46:06.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll take that answer, no? So,

**[00:46:09.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'm

**[00:46:15.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
showing you this document, no? This is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-C, Your Honor, with the caption, Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara G. Duterte, 1st Quarter CY 2023. Now, punta ko tayo sa item number 4.

**[00:46:47.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, number 2 muna tayo sa scope. You can read it with me. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence. Do you confirm that? Protective intelligence operations.

**[00:47:05.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:47:06.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
During the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the first quarter of CY 2023. Do you confirm that?

**[00:47:13.830] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo,

**[00:47:14.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
tama po. Number four. Punta tayo sa number four. Item four, you can read it with me. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice-President, Vice-Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice-President Sara Z. Duterte or Vice-President Sara Duterte from January 1 to March 31, 2023 are listed below. So nakita n'yo yan, sakto

**[00:47:48.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung basa ko ng narrative. Opo, nakalagay po yung engagement.

**[00:47:52.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat.

**[00:47:55.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Letter, pero nakalagay dito in support of the Presidential Security and Protection Groups Protective Security Operations. Based po sa document. Alright, sige. Letter A, nakalagay dito ikala, ika, 106 na taong pagkakasarinlan ng bustos minasa festival, festival, festival, Ceremony opening. So, nakalagay, date covered, January 2 to January 10, 2023. Location, BMA Park, Poblasyon, Bustos, Bulacan. Number 3, probable threats, NPA and criminalities. So, number 4, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Nakita niyo ba yan? Opo, based po sa dumang comment. Okay, salamat po. Nakalagay mo sa timeline of activities na ito, may nakalagay yung table, no? Tingnan lang natin isa-isa, no? Kung ito ba talaga ay intelligence work o hindi, no? So, itong number 5, tingnan mo natin yung item number 5. liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in the municipality of Bustos and its neighboring communities. Ano yan? Intelligence work ko yan? O ano lang ng admin work lang ng Office of the Vice President?

**[00:49:30.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang pagkakaintindi ko po dyan, yan yung naging part ng ano yung activities yung sa...

**[00:49:34.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, tatanungin kita, based on

**[00:49:36.680] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
how it appears, ano yan? Leasing with Intel Operatives, ano yan? Normal lang ho yan sa Office of the Vice President na mag-lease with Intel Operatives? Or part ho ba yan ng intelligence work? Sa tingin nyo lang ho.

**[00:50:04.760] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya sa Intelligence Gallery. Okay,

**[00:50:07.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
salamat po. Number 7, Intelligence Fusion with the... for the threat assessment and situation update. Ano po yan? Papasok po yan sa intelligence or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

**[00:50:21.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa intelligence. Salamat po.

**[00:50:28.390] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, ito. Dito tayo sa actual operations, no? Profiling of participants who will be attending the event provided by organizers. Part 2 ba yan ng normal na function ng OVP? Or papasok po siya sa intelligence work?

**[00:50:45.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa intelligence work po.

**[00:50:47.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat po. Deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate, from the landing zone to the venue. Is that an OVP admin work or intelligence-related ho yan? Kasama

**[00:51:02.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po yan sa intelligence-related activities. Okay, salamat po.

**[00:51:05.710] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[00:51:07.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Gusto ko man hong isa-isahin ito, Your Honor, pero I think we are constrained by time. The court can peruse the documents for its information. We have all the time,

**[00:51:17.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mr. Witness. Gusto

**[00:51:18.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
mo, attorney?

**[00:51:19.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Once it is formally offered, that's when we will be able to peruse it.

**[00:51:24.830] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so ito yung first quarter pala ho ito, Ms. Celine.

**[00:51:31.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Let's go to the second quarter.

**[00:51:43.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[00:51:46.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, punta ho tayo sa second quarter ng 2023.

**[00:51:52.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
It

**[00:51:55.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
is covered by the same letter of Mr. La Chica. So, punta ho tayo dito sa title. By the way, Your Honor, this is marked as our Exhibit D-1-115-OVP-M. Okay, so ang title nito ay Protective Intelligence Operations Report for the Engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte, Second Quarter 2023. Now, punta ho tayo sa scope.

**[00:52:35.470] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Basahin nyo natin, Ms. Celine, no? This report, number two, item two, this report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the second quarter of 2023. Tama po ba yung binasa ko?

**[00:52:58.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:52:59.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ay,

**[00:53:00.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
salamat po. Narrative number four, the protective Intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagement of the Vice President Sara Duterte from April 1 to June 30, 2023 are listed below. Letter A, puntaan natin yung letter A, no? Yung caption niya, National Economic and Development Authority, Social Development, Committee, cabinet-level meeting. Do you see that?

**[00:53:39.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:53:40.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, yung date covered po niya ay April 2 to 5, 2023. Tama po ba?

**[00:53:46.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[00:53:46.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Location po niya ay Astoria Plaza, Hotel 15J, Escriva Drive, Ortigas Business District, Pasig City, Metro Manila. Tama po?

**[00:53:57.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:53:58.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. Nakalagay po ang possible threats. Letter A, cost-oriented cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Nakita n'yo ba yan?

**[00:54:15.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[00:54:15.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT. Tama po?

**[00:54:23.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[00:54:24.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So number five, nakalagay na dito yung timeline of activities. Shown below, the timeline of activities for the engagement of the Vice President. Now, Punta ako tayo sa number 3. Okay. Liaising with intel operatives and respective informants of the PNP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminals in Pasig City and its neighboring communities. Ano ba yan? Administrative work lang ba yan ng OVP or part ba yan ng intel work? Tingin n'yo.

**[00:54:58.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Intel work po.

**[00:54:58.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[00:55:03.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 6. Intelligence fusion with for the threat assessment and situation update. Intelligence work or normal lang yan na part ng OVP?

**[00:55:13.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Admin work.

**[00:55:14.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Intelligence work po. Okay, salamat po.

**[00:55:19.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Eto, number 8, ocular inspection, casing and surveillance of the venue. Ano ba yan? Part lang yan ng OVP admin work or intelligence work? Who yan? Sa tingin n'yo po?

**[00:55:33.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Intelligence work po.

**[00:55:34.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat po. Number 12. Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants.

**[00:55:47.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Part 2 ba yan? Sorry, I'll... Final briefing to Intel Operatives and Informants. Is that part of the confidential... operations of the VP, OVP, or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

**[00:56:06.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya as confidential work.

**[00:56:08.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, confidential work, no? So, actual operations, eto, number 14.

**[00:56:18.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, number 14 tayo.

**[00:56:22.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, number 13 muna, ito interesting. Profiling and security tagging of participants who will be attending the event. Part 2 ba ng confidential activity yan or normal lang yan na part ng OVP?

**[00:56:35.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Admin work.

**[00:56:38.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 12 po. Kasama

**[00:56:41.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po sa, parang papasok siya sa surveillance.

**[00:56:43.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, surveillance, no? Number 14, okay, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP and MMDA. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance activities or normal lang yan sa OVP?

**[00:57:01.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Part po ng surveillance activities.

**[00:57:03.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat po. Number 16, provided intelligence coverage prior to the arrival Actual and departure of the Vice President. Part 2 ba yan ng surveillance? Or normal lang yan sa OVP?

**[00:57:17.680] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Surveillance.

**[00:57:18.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat. May nakalagay dito na post-operations. Okay, number 18. Continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Pasig City Police Office.

**[00:57:36.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Surveillance ho ba yan? Or normal lang na admin work yan ng Office of the Vice President?

**[00:58:20.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Surveillance.

**[00:58:22.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes. Oo. Pero, I mean, covered pa yun ng submission kasi nakalagay naman dito. Excuse me

**[00:58:42.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
lang, Your Honor. I will confirm with my counsel.

**[00:58:46.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Ayun na. So, may certification dito na sinubmit si Mr. Dan Telachica dated September 30, 2023.

**[00:59:01.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nakalagay dito. Babasahin ko ho, si Lyn, okay lang?

**[00:59:05.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sige,

**[00:59:06.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sabay tayo. This is to certify, ah, si Lyn pala, sorry po. This is to certify that confidential activities such as surveillance and information gathering were performed in 122 areas during the third quarter of CY 2023 which enabled the team to prevent untoward incidents from transpiring. During the engagements of the Vice President and in the implementation of the programs of the Office of the Vice President, including the establishment of three new satellite offices, Isabela, Incagayan, Valley, Bicol, and Barm, and the implementation of the OVP Libringsakay Program. Tama ho ba yung binabasa ko?

**[00:59:54.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[00:59:55.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So ito ho yung naging support niya, proof of success of the... Information gathering na sinabit ni Office of the Vice President, tama ho?

**[01:00:04.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, response po nila sa AOM for the third quarter.

**[01:00:07.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat po. Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-B for the court's information. Now, may naka-attach ho dito na PAYOR, yun yung tawag natin doon, Protective Intelligence Operations Report. for the engagements of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter of 2023. Nakikita n'yo ba yan?

**[01:00:36.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:00:36.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, this has been marked as Exhibit D-1-116-OVP-C for the respondent. Now, tingnan mo natin yung scope again, Celine. This report pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments. of the VPSPG in terms of protective intelligence operations during the engagement of the Vice President Sara Z. Duterte for the third quarter CY 2023. Do you see that?

**[01:01:07.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay,

**[01:01:08.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
salamat. Number four, narrative. The protective intelligence activities carried out in support of the Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group's protective security operations for the places of engagements of the Vice President Sara Duterte from July 1 to September 30, 2023 are listed below. Tama ba yung binabasa ko?

**[01:01:32.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:01:33.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. So, letter A. May nakalagay ho doon, DPWH inauguration and opening of Davao City Coastal Bypass Project, Segment A. Date covered, June 28 to July 1, 2023.

**[01:01:52.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Davao City Coastal Road, Times Beach, Ecoland, Davao City. Sakto? Sakto pa yung binabasa ko?

**[01:01:59.230] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay,

**[01:01:59.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
thank you. Probable threats, Letter A. cost-oriented groups, open-close parenthesis, NDF, and letter B, criminal groups. Tama po?

**[01:02:10.820] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay,

**[01:02:11.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
thank you.

**[01:02:14.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number four, detailed intel collection team, ICT, ICT4, tama po?

**[01:02:20.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:02:21.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, number five, timeline of activities, no? As shown below, the timeline of activities of the Vice President are as follows. So, tingnan natin yung number four kung Magpo-fall po yan sa confidential or surveillance work, no? Number four, liaising with intel, operatives, and respective informants of the PNP and AFP for the data information gathering needed for the threat assessment on criminalities in Davao City and neighboring Areas, does that fall under confidential activity or normal lang yan sa administrative work or normal administrative work lang yan ng OVP?

**[01:03:00.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

**[01:03:02.540] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat.

**[01:03:06.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 5 po, no? Intel fusion with the, for the threat assessment and situation update. Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

**[01:03:19.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay,

**[01:03:20.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
salamat po.

**[01:03:23.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Eto hong number 11, no?

**[01:03:27.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Final briefing to Intel operatives and informants. Ano ba ito? Normal lang ito na trabaho ng OVP or part ito ng surveillance or confidential work?

**[01:03:42.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya sa surveillance activity.

**[01:03:44.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. Then, baba tayo dito sa actual operations, no? Itong profiling and security tagging of the participants, item number 12, who will be attending the event?

**[01:03:57.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Papasok po ba na normal admin work lang yan ng OVP or papasok po siya as confidential work or surveillance?

**[01:04:05.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya dun sa surveillance.

**[01:04:07.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat. Number 13, deployment of intel operatives and informants along routes, primary and alternate from the PNP. Surveillance or normal work lang yan ng OVP?

**[01:04:21.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

**[01:04:24.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 14, provided intel coverage prior to the arrival, actual and departure of the Vice President.

**[01:04:34.390] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Surveillance or normal lang yan? Part lang yan ang admin work ng OVP?

**[01:04:39.010] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Papasok po siya sa surveillance.

**[01:04:44.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, post-operation.

**[01:04:47.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 16, continuous collaboration with the Intel Operatives of Davao City Police Office and TF Davao. Pasok ko siya sa admin work or surveillance or confidential work?

**[01:05:02.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa surveillance.

**[01:05:03.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, nakikita mo dito lahat, Miss Celine, no? Pati na yung doon sa report, nakita mo naman na isa-isa yun, lahat may mga dates at lugar, tama po?

**[01:05:15.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, nakalagay po yung narratives, yung timeline.

**[01:05:18.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, for the first and second and third quarters of 2023, do you confirm that?

**[01:05:25.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nakalagay naman yan lahat, may dates, may activity at may lugar,

**[01:05:29.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
tama ho?

**[01:05:30.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, based po sa PIO, are reports na submitted. May mga details po na ganoon.

**[01:05:35.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, lahat ng mga submissions ng OVP for the first to third quarter, Kasama ito, itong Protective Intelligence Operations Report. Meaning, sa first quarter, yung pinakita ko nga, may sinubmit kanina, di ba?

**[01:05:53.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasama po dun sa response nila sa AOM attachment po.

**[01:05:56.660] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So,

**[01:05:57.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kasama din dun sa response nila yung second quarter na Protective Intelligence Report.

**[01:06:02.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasama din po dun sa attachment.

**[01:06:04.720] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
As well as the third quarter, which is itong binasa nyo.

**[01:06:08.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasama din po yan.

**[01:06:09.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. But, You know, despite of all of this, sinabi mo, hindi, disallowed pa rin yan kasi walang evidence of success eh.

**[01:06:25.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Walang evidence of success eh, no?

**[01:06:28.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor,

**[01:06:29.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kindly turn

**[01:06:34.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
on the mic for the prosecutor.

**[01:06:36.720] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor,

**[01:06:37.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the counsel is

**[01:06:39.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
being argumentative with

**[01:06:40.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the witness.

**[01:06:40.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
No, I'm just asking, I'm asking a question, sabi ko. What is the question again? Ang question ko, despite of all of those reports, no, dinisallow nyo pa rin yung payment of rewards. Kasi sabi ninyo, no proof of success. Argumentative,

**[01:06:58.560] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor.

**[01:06:59.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That is the

**[01:06:59.660] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
finding of this witness.

**[01:07:01.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kaya nga po, sinasabi ko, attorney, kaya nga po, kinukonfirm ko.

**[01:07:05.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel, counsel, if you please. Witness may answer. Objection is overruled. Witness said that she indeed disallowed and or gave AOMs because there was no proof of success. I even remember her saying, wala naman daw na huli. So, please answer, Celine.

**[01:07:24.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, kasama po yun sa notice of disallowance ko na na-issue noong March 31, 2026. Hindi po sufficient yung P.I.O.R. and certification na evidence na nagpapakita ng success ng information gathering.

**[01:07:40.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I get that. But are you aware that one of the purposes of intelligence work is crime prevention?

**[01:07:47.180] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, may we know where this is leading because we are not talking about intelligence funds. We're talking about confidential

**[01:07:54.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
funds.

**[01:07:54.720] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I confirmed my question,

**[01:07:56.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Your Honor.

**[01:07:56.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Counsel,

**[01:07:57.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
kindly wait for Ma'am Attorney Kapunan to finish with her objection.

**[01:08:01.880] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Are you referring to

**[01:08:03.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I will

**[01:08:04.940] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
rephrase

**[01:08:05.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
my question. Counsel,

**[01:08:07.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please address the court, not each

**[01:08:10.020] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
other. Your Honor, please. May I object to this line of questioning? In fact, I have I have not stood up because all the questions referred to intelligence funds, Your Honor, when the topic today is confidential funds. And I would like to put that on record, Your Honor, especially this last question where she specifically refers to conclusions as to use of intelligence funds.

**[01:08:36.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The objection is noted and counsel has already stated that she will rephrase, kindly rephrase, Attorney Christine.

**[01:08:46.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ang tanong ko kanina, sabi nyo nga, dinisallow nyo yung rewards kasi nga walang evidence of success noong information gathering. Tama ho?

**[01:08:59.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay.

**[01:09:00.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kasi nga ho, gusto nyo ng proof na may nahuli. Sinabi nyo yan kahapon sa testimony nyo.

**[01:09:07.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po. Kasi naipakita po doon yung probable threat. So ang hinihanap na proof of success is kung may na-apprehend po.

**[01:09:13.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Apprehended. So, apprehensions, no? So, ang tanong ko sa'yo ngayon, alam niyo ba, do you know that one of the purposes of a confidential activity or a surveillance is crime prevention? Alam niyo ba yun?

**[01:09:31.680] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang isa, confidential...

**[01:09:33.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi,

**[01:09:33.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
alam niyo ba yun? Tanong ko lang ho, alam niyo ba na isa sa mga purposes ng surveillance or ng confidential work ay crime prevention? Alam nyo ba yun?

**[01:09:46.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasama po ang crime prevention pero depende rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Yes

**[01:09:51.230] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
or no?

**[01:09:51.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Do you agree?

**[01:09:55.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kasama po ba yun o hindi?

**[01:09:57.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa crime prevention po, kasama po yun sa... Pero depende pa rin po ito sa mandate ng agency. Ang gano'n lang,

**[01:10:06.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
kasama po ba siya sa surveillance at paggamit ng confidential fund, crime prevention? Yes or no?

**[01:10:11.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasama po.

**[01:10:12.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat Celine. In fact, meron tayong tatlong klase ng surveillance work. Alam nyo ba yun, Celine? May background kayo sa mga surveillance, intelligence work, confidential work?

**[01:10:27.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based lang po sa Joint Circular na for surveillance activities yung confidential fund.

**[01:10:32.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So actually yung surveillance may, do you agree with me, may tatlong klase yun. Una, preventive surveillance. Alam nyo ba yun?

**[01:10:42.110] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
No basis, Your Honor. Hindi, tinatanong ko

**[01:10:44.470] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
lang kung

**[01:10:44.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
alam n

**[01:10:45.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ba?

**[01:10:45.910] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, the surveillance work that this witness testified to is as defined in the circular. So, what

**[01:10:54.770] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
is surveillance work as defined in the circular?

**[01:11:12.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ito po yung, kasi diba po yung confidential expenses is used by agencies for surveillance and surveillance activities na makakatulong po na maisagawa ang mandate ng isang agency.

**[01:11:13.630] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, nandoon na tayo sa maisagawa

**[01:11:14.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung mandate nila. So, tanong ko sa'yo, did the circular limit that to crime prevention? Kasi nga sabi mo, kailangan talaga, ay, to, sorry, to apprehension? Kasi nga sabi mo, dapat may mahuli. Sinabi mo ba yan sa

**[01:11:28.030] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
JC na dapat may mahuli? Ang nakalagay po kasi sa JC under 4.8.5 is proof of

**[01:11:33.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
success. Sorry, Your

**[01:11:34.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor,

**[01:11:35.150] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
please. Let the witness answer, Your

**[01:11:37.390] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor. Can

**[01:11:38.150] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
the counsel be instructed not to stop the witness at mid-sentence, Your Honor?

**[01:11:47.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please, can the witness be directed to just answer with yes or no? The counsel has her time to ask clarificatory questions later during the direct, Your

**[01:11:56.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor.

**[01:11:57.330] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Not all questions can be answered by yes or no.

**[01:11:59.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I am on cross, Your Honor, please.

**[01:12:01.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Never mind

**[01:12:03.080] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Even if you're on cross. There are limits to cross-examination. Misleading questions are not allowed on cross.

**[01:12:10.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
They are allowed

**[01:12:13.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please counsels, let's not allow the generational or seeming generational divide increase the tension in the courtroom. Let's keep it a notch lower.

**[01:12:26.510] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
preventing myself from giving her a spanking, Your Honor.

**[01:12:30.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Um

**[01:12:31.550] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
That is what I would

**[01:12:32.430] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
have done in the generational divide,

**[01:12:35.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[01:12:35.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You are all members of the bar and you are all counsels for the parties.

**[01:12:42.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And we will be treating and looking at each one equally. Ms. Aileen.

**[01:12:48.900] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Your Honor, I promise to henceforth behave.

**[01:12:52.940] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, can I please respond quickly lang? I have high respect for Atty. Kapunan. In fact, she's one of my idols.

**[01:13:01.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You can end there,

**[01:13:01.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[01:13:02.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Let's end here. You

**[01:13:03.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
can end there.

**[01:13:05.260] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
It might sound like a eulogy, Your Honor. I'm still very much alive.

**[01:13:12.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kahapon nga, hindi ko nga siya kinukulit, diba? Kahit may mga questions na doon na leading, hindi naman allowed yun sa direct examination. I respected her. I, I, I, I ano din.

**[01:13:22.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You can end there counsel if you respect her.

**[01:13:24.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you. Thank you po.

**[01:13:25.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Miss Aileen, ayon sa tanong ng counsel, simple lang po naman, nakalagay ba sa Joint Memorandum Circular 2015-01 na kailangan may mahuli para maging successful ang isang

**[01:13:42.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pagbigay ng reward or information?

**[01:13:45.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong nakalagay. Ang nakalagay lang po, proof of success of information gathering and or surveillance. So,

**[01:13:51.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
interpretation n'yo po yun na dapat may mahuli para maging successful?

**[01:13:56.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ay based po yun sa aking professional judgment and based on the evaluation po ng documents in... na ito is based po sa joint circular. Pero

**[01:14:08.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
hindi po yung nakalagay sa joint circular na maliwanag.

**[01:14:12.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. Nakalagay lang po proof of success.

**[01:14:14.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Interpretasyon nyo na po yan.

**[01:14:16.220] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po sa pag-evaluate ko, yun po yung naging basis ko. Okay.

**[01:14:19.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please proceed, Attorney Christine. Salamat

**[01:14:21.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
po.

**[01:14:23.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so sa tingin nyo, dahil gusto nyo dapat may huli, hindi part ng confidential activity yung crime prevention? Ganun ho ba? Hindi ho siya part nun.

**[01:14:36.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pakiulit?

**[01:14:38.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi

**[01:14:39.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ho part yung crime prevention na walang nangyaring masama. Doon sa event na yun, hindi ho yung part ng confidential work or surveillance.

**[01:14:49.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi pa po siya sufficient as proof of success.

**[01:14:52.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi siya sufficient. So, dapat talaga may mangyari na krimen at may mahuli para po may proof of success tayo.

**[01:14:58.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi nga po, meron po yung for payment of information and payment of reward. So, yung payment of information, yun kasi yung nakakatulong dun

**[01:15:07.290] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa... Simple

**[01:15:09.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
lang naman yung tanong ko, Celine, no? What if walang nangyari na masama dahil nga sa ginawang confidential work? at nag-certify ngayon sila, Chika, na walang nangyari na masama. There was no untoward incident. Ano yan? Is that a proof of success or not?

**[01:15:28.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the objection of counsel? The

**[01:15:30.250] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
question is speculative, Your Honor. This is not based on what-ifs. This is based on facts and documents submitted, not on the what-ifs of counsel for respondent, Your Honor.

**[01:15:40.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's not

**[01:15:40.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
a what-if, counsel, because it was stated in the report that there was no untoward incident. Actually, that would have been one of the questions of the presiding officer as well, later on.

**[01:15:51.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sylene, ibahin natin ang payment for reward at payment for information. Ang payment for reward, yun ang hinahanapan mo ng success.

**[01:16:01.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:16:02.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung payment of information, hindi mo hinahanapan ng success yun?

**[01:16:06.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[01:16:07.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama po ba?

**[01:16:08.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:16:09.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So yung reward, kaya yung reward ang dinisallow at yung information, hindi mo dinisallow yung bayad na yun, di ba?

**[01:16:15.250] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. Hindi po na dinisallow yung purchase of information.

**[01:16:18.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So ang dinisallow mo lang nga ay yung payment of reward, for rewards rather.

**[01:16:23.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:16:23.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
At yun

**[01:16:24.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ang hinahanapan mo ng success, hindi yung information?

**[01:16:26.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[01:16:27.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Magkaiba yun?

**[01:16:28.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, magkaiba po yun. Okay.

**[01:16:31.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, counsel.

**[01:16:32.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, dun sa payment of success, bilang requirement n'yo na may dapat nahuli. So, ibig sabihin ba nun dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli?

**[01:16:46.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po, gaya

**[01:16:47.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
nga po nung kaninang

**[01:16:47.820] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
dini-de-referential ko.

**[01:16:50.180] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sagutin nyo lang yung tanong ko. Simple lang naman yun. Kailangan may mahuli. So, ano ba yun? Dapat may mangyaring masama para may mahuli?

**[01:17:00.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun mo, di ba po ang nakalagay dun sa probable threats is may NPA? Ang hinahanap ko po kasing proof of success dun, yun nga po, kung may nahuli ba? Kasi yung pagkakaroon ng untoward incidents, pwede po yun kasing mag-fall sa purchase of information. Dahil sa purchase of information, nagkaroon ng, there were no untoward incidents. Yun po kasi yung parang pagkakaiba nila sa payment of rewards. Okay, so yun yung interpretasyon

**[01:17:29.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
mo? So, bawal magbayad ng reward dahil nagkaroon ng tip na may dito, may information na may mga taong may gagawin na masama. Tapos, Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Tapos, napigilan natin kasi nga hindi tayo pumunta sa lugar na yon. Hindi tayo nag-conduct ng event sa petsa na yon. based on confidential information. So walang untoward incident. So bawalo bayaran ng reward yung tao na nagbigay ng information.

**[01:18:01.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Are you

**[01:18:02.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
done with the question?

**[01:18:04.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I

**[01:18:04.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
think right now she is. I

**[01:18:06.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
make an objection, Your Honor.

**[01:18:07.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, what's your objection, counsel? Your

**[01:18:08.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, the counsel is now asking a misleading question. She is mixing payment of rewards and payment for information, Your Honor. The list required by this witness is for payment of rewards. Precisely, payment of information is not disallowed. Now, counsel is saying payment of informa... May we ask her to reform? Is she referring to payment of rewards or payment for information? Because the information here... It's not disallowed.

**[01:18:55.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's not

**[01:18:55.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
disallowed in the AOMs. Again,

**[01:19:00.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsels, kindly address the court or the presiding officer and not talk to each other directly. Ms. Aileen, to abbreviate and save on the court's time, Ms. Aileen, kapag kami nagbigay ng impormasyon, naghahanap ng threat, baka may threat sa Vice President, may nagbigay ng impormasyon, walang threat. Ligtas ng Vice President pag nagpunta siya dyan.

**[01:19:28.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi magkaklassify yun na pwedeng bigyan ng reward at success. Hindi naman kailangan, diba? Sanay tayo sa reward na nakatakip yung muka, diba? Tinuro kung saan nagtatago yung akusado, tinuro kung saan nagtatago kung sino man. Eto yun, reward. Pero wala bang reward kapag sinabing, okay magpunta dyan, walang problema, wala kayong kailangan nalalahan. Is that information or can that also be reward?

**[01:19:54.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Magpo-fall po siya sa information.

**[01:19:57.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So saan, kailan lang magiging reward yun kapag may naturo?

**[01:20:01.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi yun yung proof of success.

**[01:20:05.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tuloy niyo po.

**[01:20:07.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun yung proof of success nung information na ibigay kasi may na-apprehend po or yun po, ganun po.

**[01:20:14.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yun, ulitin ko po ah, yan ang interpretasyon niyo pero wala po yan sa Joint Memorandum Circular.

**[01:20:19.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po lang yung hinihinga under item 4.8.5.b.

**[01:20:36.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Doon po

**[01:20:38.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa mga ibang na-audit ko, ang ina-attach po talaga nila is yung payment of rewards na may mga nahuli po.

**[01:20:50.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Merong nahuli o na-apprehend?

**[01:20:52.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
May ganun pong mga naka-attach na mga dokumento. At

**[01:20:56.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
tulad dun sa iba, kapag walang nahuli o na-apprehend sa reward, ine-AOM o dinidisallow o sinuspend n'yo?

**[01:21:03.010] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hinahanapan po namin ng proof of success, opo.

**[01:21:05.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Na may nahuli nga?

**[01:21:07.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:21:07.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To prove consistency on your part. But do you have any knowledge na yung mga predecessor mo, yan din yung standard na ginamit?

**[01:21:16.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pare-pareho po kami na based sa Joint Circular po ang aming basis ng audit. Pero wala nga dun eh.

**[01:21:23.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, interpretation mo, yan, at yan yung interpretation din ng mga nauna sayo sa pagkakaalam mo?

**[01:21:30.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa akin po, yun po yung naging interpretation.

**[01:21:32.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. You may proceed, Katerina Christine. Salamat po, Your

**[01:21:35.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor. I will go back the podium.

**[01:21:46.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
After nung... After nung na-evaluate nyo po yung mga responses po ng OVP, and including the DepEd, of course, nag-issue po kayo, okay, sa OVP muna tayo, nag-issue po kayo ng notice of suspension. We're referring to the office of the Vice President.

**[01:22:10.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, yung sa fourth quarter. Ang nag-issue pa po noon is...

**[01:22:13.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, ang tanong ko for the year 2023, first to third quarter, may notice of suspension mo ba na na-issue? Wala

**[01:22:20.610] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po. Okay.

**[01:22:26.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, punta tayo dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022.

**[01:22:33.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, dun muna tayo. Balik tayo. Kasi hindi naman kayo yung nag-issue ng AOM dun sa fourth quarter po, di ba po? Nag-2022? Hindi po. Oo, sige. So, dun na tayo. sa notice of suspension kasi naabutan nyo na ho yun, di ba po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022, nag-issue kayo ng notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023. Tama po ba?

**[01:23:04.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:23:05.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:23:09.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero

**[01:23:16.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa 2023, wala kayong na-issue ng notice of suspension.

**[01:23:22.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:23:24.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'm going to direct you to the JC, section 3.2. Ralph, kindly give her a copy of the JC.

**[01:23:39.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
3.2, notice of suspension. Nakita nyo na ho?

**[01:23:46.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
3.2, nakita nyo ho? 3.20 po. So sinasabi ho dyan, refers to a written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing of the temporary disallowance in audit of CE. CE po ay confidential expenses.

**[01:24:03.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:24:04.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And or IE, which appear illegal, improper, irregular, unless satisfactorily explained or justified by the responsible officers or until requirements on matters raised in the course of audit are complied with. Tama po?

**[01:24:22.520] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:24:23.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero in the case of The first and to third quarters, wala ho kayong in-issue na notice of suspension. Tama ho? Wala pong notice of suspension. Therefore, the Vice President, Office of the Vice President was not able to comment on any supposed finding. of the COA. Walang opportunity ho na magbigay ng comment yung Office of the Vice President bago pa ho ma-issue yung Notice of Disallowance.

**[01:24:58.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dumiretso po ito sa Notice of Disallowance.

**[01:24:59.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Mamaya ho, mamaya ho, tatanungin ho kita. Doon muna tayo sa Notice of Suspension. So walang naibigay na oportunidad para mag-comment ang Office of the Vice President to any Notice of Suspension na hindi naman na-serve. Wala pong Notice of Suspension

**[01:25:13.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na

**[01:25:13.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
na-issue. Thank you. Salamat po. Now, Sinabi mo rin kahapon na you dispensed with the notice of suspension because there was a supposed violation of 6.1.1 of the JC? Yes

**[01:25:27.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po, tama po.

**[01:25:28.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:25:30.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nasa JC ho ba, no, joint circular, na pag may violation ng 6.1.1, didiretso kayo sa notice of

**[01:25:37.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
disallowance? Under po kasi sa 3.19, nakalagay po doon na yung disallowance is written notification to the head of agency and or accountant informing and requiring the persons liable to restitute the amount kasi nga po nakalagay dito as a result of illegal, irregular, and improper disbursement or expenditure of such funds.

**[01:26:02.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so naiintindihan po kita sa Lynn, no? Ang tanong ko ho... Nasa joint circular ba ho na pag may violation ng 6.1.1 ay didiretso kayo sa notice of disallowance? Nasa JC ho yan? Kasi nga po yung... Sagutin

**[01:26:19.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
nyo

**[01:26:20.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
lang ho yung tanong ko na andun ho ba o wala? Pwede pong pakialit yung tanong. Sige.

**[01:26:24.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nasa

**[01:26:24.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
joint circular ho ba na pag may violation ng 6.1.1? dediretso na kayo sa notice of disallowance. Hindi n'yo na kailangan mag-issue ng notice of suspension. Opo kasi irregular na po

**[01:26:38.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung... Hindi po.

**[01:26:38.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ito po yung tinatanong ko po ay mismo yung provision na yung sinasabi ho ba niya. You can directly issue notice of disallowance without... Your Honor, this is ask and answered.

**[01:26:50.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Asked and answered. That is your answer, counsel.

**[01:26:55.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's not in the memorandum circular, Sylene, right?

**[01:26:59.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron po ang notice of disallowance po kasi ini-issue siya pag irregular na po yung paggamit nung pondo po.

**[01:27:07.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama po kayo pero walang nakalagay na pwede kang dumiretso doon kapag ka, kung ano man.

**[01:27:14.360] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, basta nakalagay lang po na ini-issue ang ND pag irregular.

**[01:27:18.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kung sa pananaw mo, irregular na.

**[01:27:21.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:27:22.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[01:27:23.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat po, Your Honor. Now, ah... Punta tayo dun sa first and second notices of this allowance. I will refer to the first ND. I refer to the first ND. When I say first ND, that refers to the fourth quarter of 2022.

**[01:27:53.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, yung second ND naman, that refers to the first to third quarter of 2023. Okay? Para hindi nyo tayo malito. And for the guidance of the Honorable Court. Now, ang sinabi nyo yung basis po sa audit ng ICFA, sa audit nyo po, ng confidential funds ng Vice President at ng DepEd ay yung, syempre, yung Joint Circular, di ba po?

**[01:28:19.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Apo.

**[01:28:19.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, Pag may-audito ng confidential funds, do you agree with me na dalawa lang naman yung outcomes nun?

**[01:28:31.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Allowance or disallowance of a confidential expense, whether full or partial allowance or disallowance? Yung disallowance po. Pwedeng whole or in part. Okay, so tama yun. Pwedeng dalawa yung magiging resulta niya. Allowance or disallowance, in full or in part. Okay. Now, And if a confidential expense is disallowed, it is because, in your own opinion, the agency did not fully comply with the documentary requirements of the Joint Circular.

**[01:29:09.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, may hindi siya compliant with the Joint Circular.

**[01:29:12.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, sige, salamat to. And as someone who is familiar with the COA rules, ito po ay Masasagot n'yo bilang auditor at bilang familiar po kayo sa COA rules. Sa tingin n'yo ba ang joint circular is a penal law?

**[01:29:31.240] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, Mr. Presiding Officer, we object to the question.

**[01:29:36.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If she knows, I'm overruled. If she knows, if she doesn't, she may say so.

**[01:29:39.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pinal law,

**[01:29:40.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
alam n

**[01:29:40.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ba yung penal law? Hindi po. I-de-define pa natin yung penal law ay yung batas na It is a law that defines a crime or a felony. Ganon po yung penal law. So sa tingin n

**[01:29:51.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo, ito po bang joint circular? Ito po ba ay isang batas na nag-de-define ng krimen? Misleading, Your Honor. At my,

**[01:30:02.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, I'm on cross-examination. Witness is not

**[01:30:05.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
competent.

**[01:30:05.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Even if you're

**[01:30:05.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
on cross, misleading is

**[01:30:07.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
not allowed. Not for that ground counsel. Witness would not be competent to answer that. She's not a lawyer nor a member of the bar, an accountant, and is part of ICFAO. Proceed to your next point, counsel, please.

**[01:30:18.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:30:18.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you po, Your Honor. Sige, I will ask her nalang based on her personal knowledge. Now, based po sa circular, meron ho bang provision doon na kulong?

**[01:30:28.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pagkakakulong? Meron ho ba? Wala pong nakalagay sa circular. Okay. May provision ho ba doon na fines? Multa? Document,

**[01:30:38.260] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, document will speak for itself.

**[01:30:40.860] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Objection.

**[01:30:42.040] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor,

**[01:30:44.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
pwede pong mag-refer dito sa... Sige, sure. Oo. Okay lang po.

**[01:30:52.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron po dito sa item 8, yung administrative provisions, penal sanctions. Yun lang po yung masasabi

**[01:30:59.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ko na... Okay. Sige. Okay. I'll take that, sir. Pero, Sige, okay.

**[01:31:09.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alam n

**[01:31:10.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo, kayo po ay part ng COA, di ba po?

**[01:31:13.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:31:14.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pamilya ro

**[01:31:15.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kayo sa administrative law kasi nasa gobyerno naman kayo. Anong

**[01:31:19.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
specific? Hindi po kaka.

**[01:31:21.540] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I will just dispense with that question. So, in short, yung joint circular sa pagkakaintindi n'yo ay procedural rules na procedure siya. Kung paano ninyo ikakandak inyong audit of the confidential funds?

**[01:31:37.890] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung Joint Circular po ang guidelines na ginagamit namin sa pag-audit po ng Confidential and Intelligence Funds. Ah, yes.

**[01:31:45.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay.

**[01:31:45.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll take that answer. Now, let's go to the first ND. Can it be flashed on the screen, please? Now, ND dated August 8, 2024, covering the fourth quarter of 2022.

**[01:32:04.640] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We will be giving the witness a copy of the ND. Okay, meron na pala, no? So, in that ND, the amount of 73,287,000 was disallowed in audit out of 125 billion confidential expenses of the OVP for the fourth quarter of 2022. Tama po?

**[01:32:31.860] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay.

**[01:32:34.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
At saka sa disallowance po nun, no, kung nakikita nyo sa screen at sa copy n'yo na ending. May tatlong grounds po yun. Agree po kayo?

**[01:32:45.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, meron dito po.

**[01:32:47.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, yung first ground po natin ay non-submission of documents evidencing success of information gathering and or surveillance activities with disallowed amount of 69,787,000. Nakikita n'yo ba yun? Opo. Okay. Yung pangalawa po, Charging payment for tables, chairs, and desktop computers and printers in the total amount of 3,500,000 to confidential fund without specifying that they were intended for confidential operations or activities undertaken by the OVP. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay, salamat. And letter number 3. Non-submission of the revised accomplishment report to the Office of the President, Senate President, and Speaker of the House of Representatives. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, sinabi n'yo kanina na itong fourth quarter na ito ng 2022, meron n'yo itong kalakip na notice of suspension. Tama po? Opo. Okay. So,

**[01:34:00.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can we flash the notice of suspension dated December 13, 2023? Okay. And this notice of suspension, nilabas ho siya, in-issue ho siya before ng issuance ng notice of this allowance. Tama po? Opo, tama po. Okay. So, can we go to item number two? Miss Celine? Can counsel give her a copy? Sige, you can peruse po item number 2 of the notice of suspension. Okay, so item number 2. The DEPs likewise revealed that the OVP incurred the following expenses supported with acknowledgement receipts. Nakikita n'yo po yan? Opo. Okay. So, nakalagay ho dyan, payment of reward, open close parenthesis, various goods, 34,857,000.

**[01:35:05.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Tama po? Opo. Okay. Payment of reward, open close parenthesis, medicines,

**[01:35:12.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
24,930,000, tama po? Opo. Payment of purchase supplies, 11,813,000, tama po? Opo, tama po. Payment of tables and chairs, 500,000. Opo, tama po. Payment of desktop computers, 3,000,000. Opo, tama po. Okay. Next paragraph po, sinabi n'yo dyan, no? Since the aforementioned expenses pertain to purchases, the same should be supported by either sales invoices or official receipts as evidence of payment of purchases from establishments slash stores. Nakikita nyo po ba? Opo. Okay.

**[01:36:05.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ngayon, nakikita nyo ba ako? yung statement na yan dun sa ND, nandun pa ho ba yan or tinanggal ho yan? Yung wala na po ito sa ND. Wala na ho, yeah, sa ND. Okay. So, flash natin ulit yung ND para makita ho ng mga tao. No? So,

**[01:36:30.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ayan.

**[01:36:34.470] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:36:35.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, tinanggal nyo na, no? Let's go to the second ND. Okay. Ito na yung first to third quarter ng 2023.

**[01:36:45.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:36:47.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pakibigay ho ng kopya yung ating witness. Pakiflash ho ng second ND.

**[01:36:57.620] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The date is March 31, 2026. Okay. So, yung second ND naman ho yun ay nag-disallow ng P375 million na confidential expenses ng Office of the Vice President. Opo, tama.

**[01:37:19.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Punta ho tayo dun sa item number 1.

**[01:37:27.540] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Payment of rewards.

**[01:37:31.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Totaling 62 million. Okay. So, kita n'yo ho. 62 million?

**[01:37:39.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:37:39.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. According to ICFAO, sabi n'yo ho, the documents evidencing success of the surveillance activities submitted by the OVP did not comply with item 4.8.5b of the Joint Circular because the documents were not able to specify the particular accomplishments demonstrating success of the information gathering. Nakita n'yo ho yun?

**[01:38:03.690] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:38:04.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, tanong ho, no? Does the JC describe a particular format for this type of documents? Nasa may pro forma ho ba kung paano ho isusulat yung accomplishments demonstrating success of

**[01:38:22.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the information gathering?

**[01:38:23.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang nakalagay lang po dun sa Joint Circular is...

**[01:38:26.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, ang tanong ko ay may template po ba yung JC?

**[01:38:28.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po. Wala po.

**[01:38:30.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:38:32.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In fact, hindi ho siya part ng annexes po ng JC. Ano po? Wala pong template na ganun kung paano namin isusulat kung ano po yung mga success of information gathering na yun, yung mga detalya na yun. Wala pong ganun. Your Honor,

**[01:38:48.350] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
please ask and answer the letter.

**[01:38:50.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Move on, counsel.

**[01:38:52.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, po. So, sa JC, may nakikita ho ba kayong example? Paano isulat yun? Aside sa wala ho siya sa annexes, sinabi nyo kanina, may nilagay ho ba si JC doon na example na ganito dapat yung pagkasulat ninyo ng certification, evidencing success of the information gathering. Ganito dapat yung pagkasulat. May ganun ho ba sa JC?

**[01:39:14.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang nakalagay lang po is documents evidencing success.

**[01:39:16.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Okay. Sige, I'll take that answer. So, in disallowing the OVP's... documents evidencing success of its surveillance activities. Of course, you merely relied on your personal opinion or probably your professional opinion, no? Kung ano sa tingin n

**[01:39:35.770] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ang compliant with item 4.8.5 of the JC, tama po?

**[01:39:40.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Binase ko po ang evaluation ko based on the Joint Circular and... Yes,

**[01:39:45.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
and ikaw yung nag-audit. So, basically, yun po ang inyong professional

**[01:39:48.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
judgment. Ano ho? And ito pong pag-audit kasi na to, dumadaan din po to sa review. So, nare-review din po ito ng aking division chief hanggang makarating po sa head of... Yes,

**[01:39:58.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
yes. In short, lahat kayo ng auditors based din sa judgment ninyo. So, opinion ninyo na itong document na ito ay hindi naayon sa Circular 4.8.5.

**[01:40:10.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Not yet, Your Honor, because he said there were reviews that were undertaken.

**[01:40:16.910] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
So, lahat kayo, kakasali yung mga superiors mo, ito yung opinion ninyo, na ito ay hindi naayon sa circular 4.8.5. Your Honor,

**[01:40:27.270] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
please. I object. Again, counsel uses the word opinion, whereas this witness says,

**[01:40:36.610] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
professional judgment, Your Honor. There are two different things. Opinion is not professional judgment. No, Your Honor.

**[01:40:44.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Besides, besides, counsels, please. Besides, witness already answered that that is not only her personal judgment and or opinion but also that of her superiors who reviewed Yes,

**[01:40:55.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor.

**[01:40:56.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
her findings resulting in the notice of disallowance. You did not sign the notice of disallowance, correct, Celine?

**[01:41:04.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po, pero meron po sa office namin yung second original copy, may countersign po kami. Pero ang ini-issue namin sa agency is yung may signed lang po ng aming...

**[01:41:14.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So pataas, presumably, pag pinirmahan niyan ultimately at in-issue, nag-agree sila sa findings mo at yun din ang pananaw nila? Opo. You may proceed, counsel.

**[01:41:23.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So sinasabi nyo na yun po yung pananaw po ng inyong mga superiors at ng sarili mo din, no? Meron ho bang guidelines yung COA na nagsasabi na ganito dapat yung assessment ninyo pagdating ho dyan sa submission ng documents evidencing success of information gathering? May mga clarificatory issuances ba yung COA nyan?

**[01:41:46.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
We base po ang our audit sa Joint Circular. Joint

**[01:41:49.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Circular lang talaga. Okay. So, Okay. Punta ho tayo dun sa item number two, Ms. Cylene.

**[01:42:01.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, item number two, okay, the ND provides, no, number two, purchases of supplies and provisions of medical slash food aid totaling 199 million presented in table two were supported only by acknowledgement receipts. Okay, nakikita n'yo ba yan?

**[01:42:23.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:42:23.940] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, eto hong ay table two na to, nakalagay, Ang total po niya, purchase of supplies, 117 million, provisions of medical and food aid, 82 million. Yung total po niya, 199 million. Tama po?

**[01:42:40.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. And

**[01:42:41.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
dinisallow n'yo siya because acknowledgement receipts lang yung supporting documents.

**[01:42:46.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dahil nga po, we cannot... Opo.

**[01:42:49.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ah, yun lang, eh, ano n'yo muna yung... tanong ko po, doon lang muna kayo sa sumagot. So, acknowledgement receipts lang, so disallowed, tama ko?

**[01:43:00.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, because...

**[01:43:01.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Mamaya na. May tatanong ko din. Wait for the question. Seline, no? Seline. So, sabi dun sa next paragraph, okay, may next paragraph po, tingnan nyo ho.

**[01:43:16.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Although the joint circular, nakita nyo yan,

**[01:43:21.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:43:21.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Although the joint circular does not prescribe specific with... Does not? prescribed specificity to the documentary evidence of payments to be submitted to substantiate the disbursements made from the CF. This office pursuant to item 6.2.3.7 of the Joint Circular may require other supporting documents that we deem necessary for the proper evaluation of liquidation documents submitted. Nakita niyo po yan? Opo. Okay. Yung next sentence, sinasabi, to ascertain the validity of such purchases of supplies and provision of medical and food aid, we deem it

**[01:44:04.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
necessary that they be substantiated with appropriate documents such as official receipts or sales invoices. Sinabi po yan?

**[01:44:14.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:44:15.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so in short, mas... gugustuin n'yo na meron talagang official receipts and invoices na nakalakip doon sa submission ng OVP. To ascertain po

**[01:44:28.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na talagang naibili ito ng supplies and medical and food aid.

**[01:44:32.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, sige, thank you. Of course, the answer is clear, no? So, okay, no? Pero, if you can recall doon sa ND ng fourth quarter ninyo noong 2022, pwede yun natin i-flashback, i-flash ulit.

**[01:44:53.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Tinanggal ho dun yung requirement ng official receipts and invoices. Tama ho ba? Do you recall that? Kasi po yung... Hindi, just answer

**[01:45:01.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
my

**[01:45:01.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
question. Can,

**[01:45:02.490] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, can counsel for respondent show the particular provision, Your Honor?

**[01:45:11.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly flash it on the screen.

**[01:45:13.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, dun sa fourth quarter ng 2022. No?

**[01:45:18.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:45:19.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wala, dun sa ND n'yo, tinanggal na n'yo yung requirement n'yo for sales, invoices, and receipts. Wala din

**[01:45:27.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sa screen, counsel.

**[01:45:29.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can you please

**[01:45:30.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
confront them? They are

**[01:45:32.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
working on it.

**[01:45:33.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sylene, do you remember? Can you answer? Can you answer, Sylene?

**[01:45:37.970] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po siya doon, pero pwede ko po bang i-clarify yung answer?

**[01:45:41.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let the

**[01:45:43.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
opposing counsel seek that, but the question being as far as kung nandun o wala, so wala na siya doon sa notice of disallowance?

**[01:45:52.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala na po.

**[01:45:53.390] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero nandun naman siya sa notice of suspension dati, no? Okay. So, okay.

**[01:46:02.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, ngayon, Ms. Celine,

**[01:46:08.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I understand, baka familiar na ako dito si Opposing Council. Alam niyo ba yung COA circular number 92-385?

**[01:46:19.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ayan po ba yung pinakita kay... Ayan po ba yung...

**[01:46:23.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige,

**[01:46:24.010] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
mapapakita ko namin sa inyo.

**[01:46:26.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly show the witness.

**[01:46:33.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, hello.

**[01:46:36.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Before she asked the question, Your Honor, for everybody to refresh their memories, this particular circular was presented by Atty. Towa to Atty. Wamil. And we had manifested that this circular dated 1992 has been superseded, has been amended, has been revoked by the current joint circular of five. government agencies, not only of Juan, Your Honor.

**[01:47:07.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I remember that manifestation that it was impliedly repealed although it was not specifically mentioned in the repealing clause of the JMC. Yes. Yes, sir, but

**[01:47:16.710] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I have different questions. Okay, so, pakibasa ho, with the indulgence of the opposing counsel, papabasa lang ho namin yung certain provisions, noong,

**[01:47:33.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Fourth paragraph po.

**[01:47:37.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor,

**[01:47:38.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please, before

**[01:47:38.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
this

**[01:47:40.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness answers,

**[01:47:41.720] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
May we know this line of questioning because this witness precisely is being presented with a document and required or directed to read provisions or paragraphs of a document that is no longer in force and effect, Your Honor.

**[01:48:00.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's give her some leeway, counsel. We will see where she will lead to.

**[01:48:06.470] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, paragraph 4, Your Honor, please. Ka-witness.

**[01:48:11.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Whereas, these intelligence and confidential activities by their very nature are highly sensitive and confidential operations. The details of which cannot be divulged without posing a threat to national security or to the success of the mission.

**[01:48:30.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can you continue with paragraph 5, Celine?

**[01:48:34.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Whereas, as now being required, the submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of disbursement from this fund for rental of safe houses, purchase of mills or supplies, and other expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations, endanger the lives and safety of the agent, and employees of the government agencies and result to a failure of the mission.

**[01:49:04.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, paragraph 6, sorry, medyo magbabasakan. Paragraph

**[01:49:09.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
6, Whereas, in many instances, is impractical and sometimes impossible to obtain such receipts, bills, or commercial invoices during intelligence operations. Ah,

**[01:49:21.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
last na ho, no? Paragraph 7. Whereas, by

**[01:49:24.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
its very nature, the use of intelligence and or confidential funds requires an approach allowing more flexibility in intelligence operations.

**[01:49:34.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, sinabi ho ng good counsel natin, no, na this is 1992 circular, no? Outdated na yan. Pero, agree ho kayo sa sinasabi niya na confidential operations are highly sensitive?

**[01:49:52.520] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Totoo

**[01:49:53.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
pa naman ho yun hanggang ngayon, di ba po? Opo,

**[01:49:55.680] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
tama po.

**[01:49:55.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
At ayon sa circular, may mga detalya na hindi natin pwedeng i-disclose dahil dito nakasalalay yung success ng ating confidential operations.

**[01:50:07.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
based po sa document na ito.

**[01:50:08.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, pero as of today, totoo pa naman ho yun? Applicable ho yun? Sa tingin nyo ho?

**[01:50:15.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo sa intelligence.

**[01:50:16.720] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, okay. And confidential activities also.

**[01:50:20.580] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, the answer was opo sa intelligence.

**[01:50:23.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, I'm asking her about confidential operations. Applicable din ho yan pagdating sa mga confidential operations?

**[01:50:32.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, pwede din po. Okay,

**[01:50:33.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
salamat. Now, based on those statements na binasa ho ninyo, nire-recognize ho ng COA, based lang ho dyan sa statement na yan, no, na yung submission of receipts, bills, or commercial invoices in support of certain expenses might create a leak of information that may threaten the confidentiality of the intelligence operations. Based lang ho dito sa binasa nyo.

**[01:51:00.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based po dito sa circular na ito.

**[01:51:02.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[01:51:04.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, sa tingin n'yo yung mga konsepto na na-introduce po ng circular na ito ay applicable pa po sa panahon ito?

**[01:51:13.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Objection, Your Honor.

**[01:51:15.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the objection?

**[01:51:17.500] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please.

**[01:51:21.280] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
This council is trying to elicit from this witness an opinion that indirectly runs counter to the express provision. in the Joint Circular of 2015, Your Honor, that all of these, everything she has said, all the paragraphs that she has read, precisely, Your Honor, if I can, I will state this later, Your Honor, but precisely, Your Honor, the Joint Circular, if we are to read the rationale for the Joint Circular, was precisely in recognition of the fact that this circular and several other circulars of intelligence and confidential government agencies are inaccurate and inconsistent with each other. Thus, the rationale of Joint Circular 2015 was precisely to make it one whole Joint Circular of five. agencies on intelligence and confidential funds. I

**[01:52:24.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
understand the point of Atty. Capunan. However, the question is quite simple for the witness. Although this may have indeed been impliedly repealed, again, impliedly repealed by the Joint Memorandum Circular, are the concepts stated herein still applicable today and are you still using it? I'll abbreviate the proceedings. Ms. Aileen, yung... Kawalan ba ng resibo na sinasabing okay lang sa circular na to? Okay pa rin ba hanggang ngayon sa Joint Memorandum Circular o hindi na?

**[01:52:56.800] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under po kasi sa Joint Memorandum Circular, under 6.2.3.7, we can request po other documents necessary for the proper evaluation po nung under 6.2.7 po. Other documents necessary. hindi audit po.

**[01:53:15.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You can request for other documents, but the Joint Circular does not say that you should demand and ask for receipts. Wala dun yan.

**[01:53:24.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, just a quick manifestation, Your Honor. Your Honor, can the counsel for the prosecutors be reminded not to make... an argument, not to argue for the witness, Your Honor, because she's citing circular, she's citing laws, which is not allowed during cross-examination, and that is indirectly teaching her witness how to answer my question. So, please, Your Honor, can the court direct... counsel, not to make these arguments in court because these are not allowed under the rules of court, Your Honor. This is not a place where we are, no, this is not the time where we are supposed to expel or to state our oral arguments in this case. So, Your Honor,

**[01:54:10.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
this is part of the seeming generational divide tension that the court is trying to avoid. So let's leave it at that, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. I

**[01:54:21.710] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
was just going to say that I will accept.

**[01:54:24.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's leave

**[01:54:25.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
it at that. I

**[01:54:25.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
accept

**[01:54:25.810] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
what she said, Your Honor. I will refrain from lecturing her, Your Honor.

**[01:54:30.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, please. That's all

**[01:54:32.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
out

**[01:54:33.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
of order,

**[01:54:33.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor.

**[01:54:33.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, please.

**[01:54:37.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly proceed, Attorney Christine.

**[01:54:39.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:54:44.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I will go back to the podium.

**[01:54:54.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, in relation to the question that you were asked by the chair, earlier you said that hindi naman required ng circular yung mga invoices and receipts, tama ko? Ang requirement po is other documents,

**[01:55:10.150] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
deems necessary. Yes,

**[01:55:12.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
but answer my question, hindi required yung invoices and receipts, sinabi mo yun kanina?

**[01:55:17.810] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, hindi po siya naka-enumerate doon.

**[01:55:20.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In fact,

**[01:55:22.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Item 4.12 ng JC. Kung may copy ka ho dyan, pakitingin. Item 4.12, please. It says that disbursements from CF shall be supported with documentary evidence of payment, among others, which shall be submitted to the ICFAO in a sealed envelope signed by SDO. So sinasabi dito, documentary evidence of payment. Tama po?

**[01:55:56.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[01:55:57.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Without specifying the kind of document that the agency should

**[01:56:01.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
submit. Tama? Opo, wala siyang in-specify. Ang nakalagay lang po, documents evidencing payment.

**[01:56:07.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So,

**[01:56:09.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung

**[01:56:13.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
intention ho ng circular ay i-require ho yung invoices and receipts.

**[01:56:21.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Bakit sa tingin nyo hindi nakalagay ho sa circular yun? Your Honor, please, we object

**[01:56:25.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
to the question.

**[01:56:27.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What's the base of the objection, counsel? Argumentative. Speculative. Sustained.

**[01:56:32.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Sige po. For

**[01:56:34.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
being argumentative. Yes,

**[01:56:35.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor. I will move on. Okay.

**[01:56:40.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Silin.

**[01:56:43.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Silin pala. Sorry. Kasi silin d'yon. Silin. Okay. Silin, no?

**[01:56:49.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The circular involves surveillance activities. Tama?

**[01:56:55.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Confidential

**[01:56:56.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
and intelligence activities.

**[01:56:57.830] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, surveillance activities. Familiar ho ba kayo sa mga surveillance activities?

**[01:57:06.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Excuse me, Your Honor, ask and answer it earlier.

**[01:57:13.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi ho, tinatanong ko, Your Honor, kung familiar ho sila kung ano ang mga surveillance activities. Witness

**[01:57:14.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may answer. She evaluated those earlier and identified some of the things read by counsel as surveillance. So, she is competent to answer. Cylene, please answer the question.

**[01:57:23.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede po ulit pa kay ulit yung tanong po?

**[01:57:27.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pamilyar po ba kayo sa mga surveillance operations? Mga klase, uri, I believe, ng surveillance operations?

**[01:57:35.260] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
May konti po akong alam sa surveillance activities po. Okay.

**[01:57:39.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Sige, I'll just move on to another point, Your Honor. So, okay.

**[01:57:46.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Natapos na tayo dun sa invoices and receipts, no? Kayo ho ay certified public accountant to, Ms. Celine? Sylene?

**[01:57:55.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[01:57:55.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, familiar po kayo sa tax code? National Internal

**[01:57:59.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Revenue Code? Hindi po ako nag-practice nang sa bandang tax.

**[01:58:03.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero pinag-aralan po natin yan sa college, sa accountancy, o.

**[01:58:07.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Asama po.

**[01:58:09.130] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, we object to this line of questioning already. First, she asks this witness earlier if this witness is familiar with criminal laws. objection from prosecution sustained by the presiding officer. Now she's asking this witness, are you familiar with the tax code, Your Honor? We will make the same objection, Your Honor, beyond the scope of direct...

**[01:58:36.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We'll note the objection. We'll see where she takes this counsel. We'll give her some leeway if she's on cross.

**[01:58:42.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. So, yung tax code doon, nasa kurikulumo natin yan noong college po, di ba po? Noong nagti-take up tayo ng accountancy.

**[01:58:49.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, taxation and law.

**[01:58:51.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, salamat po. Now, familiar ho kayo sa section 34 ho ng tax code?

**[01:58:57.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sige. Hindi ko na po maalala.

**[01:59:00.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ipa-flash ho natin yan sa screen, please. Section 34.

**[01:59:05.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can counsel just proceed to the question, Your Honor? That's it. That's it, Your Honor.

**[01:59:10.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That's section 34. Ika-flash yun natin, no? Section 34B says, Substantiation requirements. No deduction from gross income shall be allowed under subsection A hereof unless the taxpayer shall substantiate with sufficient evidence. such as official receipts or other adequate records, the amount of the expense being deducted, and the direct connection or relation of the expense being deducted to the development, management, operation, and or conduct of trade, business, or profession of the taxpayer. Your Honor, please.

**[01:59:48.320] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Counsel? We will object already to this line of questioning. It is totally immaterial. Irrelevant and beyond the scope. of cross-examination. There was no question yet, Your Honor.

**[02:00:04.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's wait for the question, counsel. I think I know where counsel is leading to. Thank

**[02:00:09.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you, Your Honor. Attorney Christine, go to your question. So, Section 34B refers to the deductibility of expenses under the tax code. If you can recall that.

**[02:00:20.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, okay. Now we make our objection, Your Honor. What's your... Is that your question?

**[02:00:26.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wala pa.

**[02:00:26.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think she's laying the basis for a question, counsel.

**[02:00:29.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wala pa ho. I'm laying

**[02:00:29.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the basis ho. Okay. So... What is the question? In fact, Section 34B, yung binasa natin...

**[02:00:40.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Patience is a virtue, counsel.

**[02:00:42.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In fact, Section 34B of the NIRC considers other adequate records to support the deductibility of expenses, di ba ho? Tingnan nyo kung titignan nyo lang o base lang o sa tax code.

**[02:00:57.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is that already the question?

**[02:01:00.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As an answered counsel, move to your point.

**[02:01:02.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
What is? Yes. Ano ho yung sagot? Paulit po yung tanong.

**[02:01:07.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay. Based

**[02:01:08.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po dyan sa sinayto natin na provision ng tax code.

**[02:01:12.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Section 34B considers adequate records as sufficient support for the deductibility of expenses or business expenses under the tax code.

**[02:01:24.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Base po dyan.

**[02:01:25.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Oh, base po dyan. Okay. Document is the best evidence, Your Honor.

**[02:01:29.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel. Let her proceed, counsel. Thank

**[02:01:32.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you, Your Honor. It does not require an invoice. Nakalagay ho dyan, invoice. Dapat mag-submit po tayo ng invoice. Again. May I object now? Is that a question already

**[02:01:44.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
or

**[02:01:44.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
should I wait for your question? Yes, that's

**[02:01:46.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
a question, Your Honor. Nakalagay mo ba dyan na requirement na dapat may invoice para magiging deductible yung expense? Nakalagay po as

**[02:01:55.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
official.

**[02:01:56.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor,

**[02:01:57.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please. Attorney

**[02:01:58.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lorna, yes. What is your objection?

**[02:02:00.140] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
This is immaterial, irrelevant, beyond the scope. This is the National Internal Revenue Code for taxpayers. What is... Relevant here is the payment of taxes what is allowed as deductions. What are documents allowed to substantiate findings here? It refers to gross income, Your Honor. What has gross income have to do with confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd? Since

**[02:02:33.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
it's 1155, let the court, let the presiding officer go to the point. I think, Atty. Christine is going towards. Atty. Celine, Nasa tax code, para sa anumang dahilan o purpose ay pwede ka mag-present ng adequate records maliban sa resibo. Alam niyo yan bilang accountant?

**[02:02:54.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Apo.

**[02:02:56.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sa trabaho niyo po ba ngayon sa COA sa paghahanap ayon sa pag-cite niyo ng provision kanina ng iba pang dokumento bilang suporta sa paggastos ng confidential fund? Tinignan n

**[02:03:09.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
'yo ba maliban sa official receipt, adequate records na ginagamit din naman sa NIRC kung applicable yan sa COA?

**[02:03:18.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pakialit yung tanong.

**[02:03:20.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Applicable din ba ang adequate records maliban sa resibo sa COA at hindi lamang dito sa NIRC bilang accountant? Kaya nga siguro required na accountant kayong lahat o abogado, hindi ba?

**[02:03:31.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:03:32.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, puwedeng adequate records?

**[02:03:34.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, na ma-assertain namin kung talagang nagamit ito for confidential expenses.

**[02:03:39.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May mga

**[02:03:54.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sinasubmit po sila na gaya po ng acknowledgement receipt at saka po yung mga reimbursement expense receipts po.

**[02:04:05.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
para sa inyo, maliban sa official receipt.

**[02:04:08.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasama na rin po yung official receipt. Pwede bang

**[02:04:10.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
gamitin ng other records, adequate records, sa pagbili ng bagay-bagay?

**[02:04:16.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, pwede po.

**[02:04:17.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, tables, chairs, pwedeng adequate records at hindi kailangan official receipt sa lahat ng panon, depende sa kalagayan at sitwasyon.

**[02:04:24.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pero po kasi, it di... Ito po ay nagpapertain sa purchases so mas sufficient po sa amin kung maipapakita yung sales invoice at official receipts po.

**[02:04:36.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero possible bang may adequate records yun o wala? Possible bang may iba pang records sa karanasan nyo sa ibang agencies na gumagamit ng intelligence at confidential funds?

**[02:04:45.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Receivo lang po talaga para mapatunayan namin na talagang binili yun for tables and chairs.

**[02:04:50.470] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pag

**[02:04:50.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
-purchase. Opo.

**[02:04:51.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi pag-reward, hindi pag-information.

**[02:04:54.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, pwede po yung acknowledgement receipts dun.

**[02:04:57.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At yun ang papasok sa adequate records?

**[02:05:00.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay.

**[02:05:02.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine? Yes,

**[02:05:03.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor. I'll move on. You

**[02:05:04.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
want to move on to the next point? Yes, yes po.

**[02:05:06.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[02:05:09.680] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, napag-usapan nun natin yung ORs and sales invoices po, di ba po? Opo. As a CPA, syempre as COA auditor, familiar mo kayo kung ano yung mga contents nun? Doon sa ORs and invoices, familiar ho kayo ano yung mga details na nandun, di ba po?

**[02:05:25.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay.

**[02:05:25.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So nakalagay doon sa ORs and invoices, halos pare-pareho lang ho yan, yung date of transaction, di ba ho?

**[02:05:32.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:05:33.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Yung seller's details, no? Nakalagay doon yung registered name, registered business address, and the tax identification of the seller. Nakalagay ho doon, di ba po?

**[02:05:45.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay.

**[02:05:47.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nakalagay din ho doon yung description ng goods. Di ba po? Or in case of services, kung ano ho yung nature ng services provided? Nakalagay ho doon?

**[02:05:56.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:05:56.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, nakalagay din ho doon yung buyer's information, no? Yung pangalan ng buyer or ng client, yung address, at saka yung tax identification number ng client. Tama ho? Opo. Okay. Now, let's apply this. invoice these details that are required in an invoice or OR in an actual confidential transaction.

**[02:06:25.150] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
We

**[02:06:25.870] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
object to this line of questioning, Your Honor. We are now going to the realm of the hypothetical. She has presented a hypothetical OR knowing that there is zero, no OR, not a single OR. was submitted to the office of the COA ICPAO. Now she's talking about a sample, a sample hypothetical OR. What is the line? Where are we going here, Your Honor? Because if we are going to this line of hypotheticals, Your Honor, we might not finish today. We might finish next week, August 14, which is what they want probably, Your Honor.

**[02:07:15.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I will give the attorney Christine some leeway on this. Let's see where she will go.

**[02:07:19.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, thank you, Your Honor. Okay, so ipagpalagay na ho natin yung transaction rental of safe house. Okay. So, assuming nag-require ho kayo ikfaw ng invoice or ng OR, no? So, ano ho ba yung, kasi di ba sabi nyo dito sa findings ninyo, no, na kailangan natin ng ORs at an invoice. Tapos, naalala nyo ho, nilagay nyo dito na pwede naman hong may mga information na dapat tanggalin. Di ba po?

**[02:07:52.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nakalagay ho dun sa ND.

**[02:07:56.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung hinihingan po namin ng additional documents gaya ng OR and the...

**[02:08:01.630] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, hindi ho. I'll direct you to the

**[02:08:04.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ND.

**[02:08:06.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Which ND, counsel?

**[02:08:07.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The 2nd ND, Your Honor. The August

**[02:08:10.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
8th ND.

**[02:08:11.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes po, yes po. Babasahin po yung portion na related po dito. Number 2, yung second paragraph po, pakitingin na lang ho, Miss Celine. Number 2, Celine, no? Okay.

**[02:08:31.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung though, itong under item number 2,

**[02:08:36.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung

**[02:08:38.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa second paragraph, diba may table doon? Nasusundan nyo yung though this office, pakireflect na lang ho sa taas, no? sa overhead. Though this office recognizes, nakikita n

**[02:08:51.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ba ho yan?

**[02:08:53.270] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:08:54.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. That by the very nature of the CF, where identities of the safe, where identities of those involved, that is, the informants for whom the supplies were used, nasusundan n'yo, owners of safe houses or owners of rented vehicles used for confidential activities and the details which can be disclosed evidencing validity should be submitted to warrant reasonable and adequate substantiation.

**[02:09:32.630] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kaya ulit-ulit, sorry. Though this office recognizes that by the very nature of the CF were identities of those involved, that is, the informants for whom supplies were used, owners of safe houses or owners of rented vehicles used for confidential activities, and the very details of the confidential activities are to be reasonably safeguarded. Nakikita nyo ba ho yan? Opo. Oo. reasonably safeguarded, other details, sinabi n'yo dito, other details which can be disclosed, evidencing the validity, should be submitted to warrant reasonable and adequate substantiation of the claimed confidential expenses in relation to item 4.12 of the Joint Circular. Your Honor, please. I have not yet propounded my

**[02:10:24.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
question, Your Honor.

**[02:10:24.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There is no question yet, counsel. No, Your Honor,

**[02:10:26.920] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
this does not relate to the question. This relates to the document being flashed. The question is, this is not an August 8th ND. I was

**[02:10:38.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
saying, Your Honor, this was the 2nd ND.

**[02:10:40.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sorry, this is the 2nd

**[02:10:42.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ND.

**[02:10:43.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
This is the March 31.

**[02:10:45.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, it's the March 31, Your Honor. But the witness... So it is misleading, Your Honor. She said August 8, ND. No, I said 2nd ND. I did not say August.

**[02:10:54.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Are

**[02:10:54.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you referring to the March 31, 2026?

**[02:10:57.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes,

**[02:10:58.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor. I'm referring to

**[02:10:59.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the

**[02:10:59.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
March 31, 2026 ND. Yes po, yun sa ND dated March 31, 2020.

**[02:11:06.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, she

**[02:11:06.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
knows what she was looking at, counsel. It was the presiding officer's mistake when I referred to it as August 8.

**[02:11:11.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, thank you, Your Honor. So, nakalagay ho dyan, no? Okay. So, balik ho tayo dun sa requirement ng invoice at OR, no? Assuming nga, yun, rent of safe house ho yun, no? So, base dun sa mga items or sa mga information na sinabi nyo kanina, Ano ba yung pwedeng tanggalin natin doon sa invoice? Hindi, tatanungin ko kita. Isa-isahin ko ito. Ano yung pwedeng tatanggalin natin doon sa invoice? Blessors registered name. Example, ABC Apartments. Kailangan namin mag-submit ng invoice. Mag-submit kami ng invoice. Wait lang, Your Honor.

**[02:11:53.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mag-submit

**[02:11:56.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kami ng invoice. Sabi nyo. You recognize that there are information that are sensitive. Tama ho ba? So, pag nag-submit to kami ng invoice involving rental of a safe house, ano ho ba yung pwede naming tanggalin? Okay, lessor's registered name, ABC Apartments, kunyari, pwedeng tanggalin? Pwede po bang may ika

**[02:12:18.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
-clarify lang po ako? Atty. Sailin, before you answer, yes, Atty. Kapunan, you were saying, Your Honor,

**[02:12:23.070] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
this line of questioning already is, number one, argumentative, number two, hypothetical, Your Honor.

**[02:12:29.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No,

**[02:12:30.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
because this

**[02:12:31.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness

**[02:12:32.110] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
has testified.

**[02:12:34.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And I think some members of the court would also like to find out what is acceptable and what is not, given the confidential nature of this. I think even one of the senator-judges will be pursuing this point later, so it might abbreviate the proceedings if you are able to answer now. Ano yung katanggap-tanggap na laman ng invoice, Sylene, kung dapat itago na confidential ang ibang mga impormasyon?

**[02:12:57.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede po bang i-explain ko lang po muna yung nasa ND?

**[02:13:02.230] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, sige po.

**[02:13:03.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po ang hinihingan lang po namin ng official receipt and invoice, yung lang pong expense pertaining to purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid, hindi po nabanggit yung sa rental ng safe houses.

**[02:13:17.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So sa rental, hindi kailangan?

**[02:13:19.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. Ang hinihingan lang po namin ng official receipts at ng sales invoice is yung purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid.

**[02:13:27.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Naginamit sa pagbigay ng reward.

**[02:13:30.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po sa third quarter, hindi na siya reward. Naka-reflect na siya as supplies. Ah,

**[02:13:35.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
as supply na?

**[02:13:35.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kaya doon po. Pero yung sa rental of safe house, in-accept naman yung acknowledgement receipt.

**[02:13:42.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So sa pananaw mo, hindi kailangan maging confidential yung binilan ng supplies?

**[02:13:47.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po ang confidential, di ba po pag dumibili tayo ng supplies, ng food, ng medicine, standard procedure po yung merong resibo. na matatanggap from the establishment kung saan po natin binili itong mga supplies, food, and medicine. At

**[02:14:03.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sa

**[02:14:04.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
pananong mo nga,

**[02:14:04.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
hindi dapat confidential yung binilhan?

**[02:14:07.250] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung pinagbilhan po kasi yung sa paggagamitan yung confidential expenses.

**[02:14:11.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. You may proceed, counsel.

**[02:14:13.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, sige, ibahina na po natin, gawin natin yung supplies. Alimbawa, pagkain. Supplier na pagkain. Okay. Ano yung pwedeng tanggalin doon? Let's say, the supplier's name, let's say, ABC Catering, puwedeng tanggalin?

**[02:14:32.680] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Opo. Okay, tanggalin natin. Yung location, yung business address po ni ABC Catering, let's say, ground floor, Multinational Bank Corporation Center, 6805,

**[02:14:45.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ayala Avenue, Makati City, puwedeng tanggalin?

**[02:14:48.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi naman po confidential yung mismong establishment na nagkwan noon eh. Yung ang pinakamit-punit po

**[02:14:55.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
dito, pinaggamitan, and dun po sa resibo na yun, hindi naman po siya confidential information.

**[02:15:01.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Just answer the

**[02:15:02.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
question, no? Ask and answer, Your Honor. Pwedeng hindi tanggalan yung address ng supplier ng pagkain. Ask and

**[02:15:11.210] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
answer, Your Honor. Not

**[02:15:13.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yet, Your Honor. Not yet. Counsel, ask and

**[02:15:15.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
answer.

**[02:15:16.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ask and answer.

**[02:15:18.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, please. She said that... When it pertains to the purchase of supplies, food, medicines, shares, if at all computers, the name of the entity where they purchased it is not confidential. Pero kung saan ginamit yun, kung sinong pinagbigyan, sinong pinakain, saan pinakain, yun yung confidential. Tama ba, Celine?

**[02:15:45.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[02:15:47.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, yung invoice o resibo ng pagkain, medical supplies, na supplies, kailangan may resibo. Yan ang interpretasyon mo noong Joint Circular.

**[02:15:56.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, para ma-assertin namin na talagang ginamit yun for purchases of supplies, food, and medicines po.

**[02:16:02.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, sa bagay nito, ulitin ko, sa pananaw mo, sa interpretasyon mo, sa ginamit mong pag-audit, kapag ka supplies, hindi ka tatanggap ng other adequate document, resibo talaga hahanapin mo.

**[02:16:15.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, para mapatunayan na pinambili po talaga ito noong supplies.

**[02:16:19.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And this is the same standard you're applying to other government agencies, not only the OVP and the DepEd.

**[02:16:25.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:16:27.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so sinabi pagkain ho yung example natin, no? So, sino ho ba dapat ang may alam kung confidential dapat ang information? Si COA ho ba o si agency? Who is in a better position to know whether information is confidential?

**[02:16:49.260] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pakiulit yung tanong? Okay.

**[02:16:52.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Question is vague, Your Honor. Sige, okay. Example, pagkain, no? Pagkain, okay. Kung kami ho, agency, sa tingin namin, dapat confidential yung supplier namin kasi baka lasunin, baka may matuntun, no? Matuntun-tun yung supplier namin. Tapos tinanggal namin yung address. Tinanggal namin yung address, tinanggal namin yung ibang details doon, sinabit namin sa COA, no? Acceptable pa rin ho ba sa COA yun? Hindi naman po confidential yung mismong... Sa inyo ho, pero

**[02:17:24.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
kung sa...

**[02:17:25.720] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Ask and answered, Your Honor. Okay.

**[02:17:28.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi naman confidential yun.

**[02:17:29.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ask and answered. Don't argue with the Witness Council. Okay,

**[02:17:32.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yes, Your Honor. So sa tingin nyo, hindi confidential yun, pero maaaring sa agency, confidential ho yun. Argumentative,

**[02:17:41.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor. Ask and answered. It is not confidential.

**[02:17:45.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Move on to the next point, counsel. Your Honor, I'm

**[02:17:47.240] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
asking for possibility,

**[02:17:48.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor.

**[02:17:48.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There is

**[02:17:49.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
already ruling from the presiding officer.

**[02:17:50.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Move to the next point, counsel.

**[02:17:52.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so in short, kayo ho yung nagde-decide ngayon kung ano ho yung confidential na information. At hindi. Kasi sinabi nyo ho, sa tingin nyo, hindi naman siya confidential. Misleading,

**[02:18:03.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Your Honor.

**[02:18:03.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness may answer?

**[02:18:05.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes. Kasi nga po yung pinaggamitan, hindi naman po yung nag-provide.

**[02:18:10.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so okay lang na ma-expose yung supplier sa instance na yun, no? Okay lang na malagay yung address ng ABC. Your Honor, please, again,

**[02:18:18.720] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
this is

**[02:18:19.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
already argumentative.

**[02:18:20.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Asked and answered, counsel, and argumentative.

**[02:18:22.820] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
There is nothing confidential about where you are supplying.

**[02:18:28.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Asked and

**[02:18:28.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
answered, counsel, whether you agree or not, whether you agree or not with the answer of Ms. Aileen, that was the answer she gave.

**[02:18:35.280] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Continuing objection, Your Honor. if it will apply again to medicines, if it will apply again to supplies, chairs and tables. We will

**[02:18:43.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
have a

**[02:18:43.550] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
continuing objection

**[02:18:44.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to this line of

**[02:18:45.830] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
questioning, Your Honor.

**[02:18:46.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We're not yet there, counsel.

**[02:18:48.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Attorney

**[02:18:48.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Christine, you may proceed.

**[02:18:50.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, po. Your Honor, thank you po. So you are saying the COA is in a better position to judge whether an information is confidential or not. Wala akong karapatan sa agency.

**[02:19:03.060] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Argumentative, Your Honor.

**[02:19:04.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
With

**[02:19:04.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
regard to the food, Your Honor, we are on the example of the supplier of food. Okay. Sa instance ho na yan, sa tingin n'yo, hindi ho siya confidential, di ba ho? So kayo ho yung mas nakakaalam na ito, you are in a better judgment sa bagay

**[02:19:22.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ho na yan.

**[02:19:23.160] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po dun sa food po, yung tao na, yung tao mismo na bumili, yun yung confidential. Ganun po.

**[02:19:30.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi po yan yung tanong ko eh.

**[02:19:32.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The

**[02:19:33.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
question is vague, Your Honor.

**[02:19:35.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The

**[02:19:35.740] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
question

**[02:19:37.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
is

**[02:19:37.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
vague.

**[02:19:38.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sylene, ang tanong sa'yo ay may karapatan ba yung ahensya magsabi na ito confidential? Kayo lang ba ang may karapatan? Kasi I can actually answer. Tell me if you agree. You review the submissions of the agencies, correct?

**[02:19:56.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pag

**[02:19:56.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may observation kayo, mag-EAOM kayo, and they can say, ah hindi, confidential to. And then you can agree or disagree, correct?

**[02:20:02.860] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based on the evaluation po nung magiging response nila.

**[02:20:06.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And given the difference in the notice of suspension and notice of disallowance as pointed out by counsel earlier na may mga tinanggal na kayo, may mga binawas kayo, di ba? Kasi napaliwanag nila.

**[02:20:18.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, minsan sinasabi nila sa unang tingin mo, hindi confidential ito, biglang nagpaliwanag sila, confidential yun, binawas nyo o binabawas nyo?

**[02:20:25.860] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, based po sa evaluation ng response nila, kung na-answer na po nila yung issues raised dun sa AOM or CNS. Na

**[02:20:34.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
-answer o napaliwanag nila o nakumbinsi kayo na confidential ito, therefore, hindi kailangan ng resibo o invoice.

**[02:20:40.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[02:20:41.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama. But your determination is anyway appealable, if at all, to the Supreme Court, the Commission of the Supreme Court?

**[02:20:48.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pag yung sa COA po, o pag may decision, may remedy pa po na umakyat sa Supreme Court?

**[02:20:53.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Okay. Counsel, move on.

**[02:20:55.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, in short, sa sagot mo na yan, ibig sabihin, kayo talaga yung nagdedetermine na ito, hindi dapat ito confidential. Kasi nga, kagaya nung supplies, medicine, and food. Yun po yung naging basis ninyo ng

**[02:21:07.980] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
ND ninyo, di ba po? Your Honor, please, I think this was the question itself of the presiding officer.

**[02:21:12.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Already answered, counsel.

**[02:21:14.060] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The

**[02:21:14.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
answer is, we want to put it on record, Your Honor, the answer. Ask and answer,

**[02:21:19.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor.

**[02:21:20.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
She agrees, counsel. She

**[02:21:22.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
already agrees. Okay, I'll move on, Your Honor. Can we move on, Your Honor?

**[02:21:29.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Miss Celine, who determines the safeguard to be implemented in order to secure the success of an agency's confidential operations? Part ba ho yun ng audit n'yo na kung ano yung mga hindi dapat dinadivulge or dinadivulge ng agency? Part ho ba ng co-ICFA audit yun?

**[02:21:49.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
With regard to their confidential operations. Your

**[02:21:53.510] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, again, this is ask and answer.

**[02:21:55.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
No, Your Honor. By rephrasing the question,

**[02:21:58.590] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, by rephrasing

**[02:22:00.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the question.

**[02:22:00.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
This is a different question.

**[02:22:00.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Wait for

**[02:22:02.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel for the prosecutors. Yes, Atty. Kapuna?

**[02:22:05.490] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, these are the same questions rephrased differently, Your Honor. Ask and answer.

**[02:22:11.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
It is not, Your Honor.

**[02:22:14.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kasi kanina, who determines whether...

**[02:22:17.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court will allow it. Atty. Celine, please answer.

**[02:22:20.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, ulitin ko po ah. Who determines? Sino ba yung nagdi-determine kung ano dapat yung mga safeguards, mga panuntunan na i-implement dapat ng agency para ma-secure po yung success ng confidential operations? In short, sino dapat yung nagdi-determine na itong information na ito, confidential ito, hindi?

**[02:22:45.690] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po, dapat po sa agency meron silang sound and effective internal control.

**[02:22:51.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat po. So, sa agency na yun. Si agency dapat. At si Kowa Ikfaw, merely audits liquidation documents relative to the confidential funds. Tama po ba? We

**[02:23:04.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
base po sa liquidation documents submitted at base po sa joint circular yung pag-evaluate namin per liquidation documents submitted.

**[02:23:12.280] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. So, si Kowa Ikfaw, In that sense, you do not determine which information is confidential or not, correct? Kasi i-base lang naman po kayo sa liquidation documents. We

**[02:23:25.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
base our audit po sa liquidation documents submitted to us. We rely po doon sa pag-conduct ng audit.

**[02:23:32.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat po. Now, si Kowa Ikpao po ba ay privy sa confidential operations ng agency?

**[02:23:40.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kasaliw ba kayo dun sa mga confidential operations po ng OVP, for example? We base lang po our audit

**[02:23:46.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
dun sa liquidation documents submitted to us.

**[02:23:48.270] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So,

**[02:23:48.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
in short,

**[02:23:48.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
just answer the question. Kasaliw ba kayo sa confidential operations ng OVP?

**[02:23:52.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Answered, Your Honor. Wala hong answer, Your Honor.

**[02:23:55.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
She did

**[02:23:55.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
not answer, counsel. She did

**[02:23:56.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
not answer. Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:23:58.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sylene, just answer it. Hindi kayo kasama, di ba?

**[02:24:01.970] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. Base lang po kami sa documents.

**[02:24:04.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, just say that hindi kayo kasama.

**[02:24:06.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Salamat po, Your Honor.

**[02:24:09.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
It's 1216, Your Honor. Okay lang po ako. I can

**[02:24:14.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
continue. Thank you

**[02:24:14.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for pointing that out, counsel.

**[02:24:20.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your

**[02:24:21.050] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, may we know if the cross-examination will take another two hours, three hours? More likely, Your Honor, this is...

**[02:24:27.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's see. We cannot compel, neither can we force, her pressure counsel to limit her cross-examination. She has enough leeway to test the credibility of the witness. We shall take a lunch break and shall resume at 1 p.m. with the cross-examination of Cylene thereafter the interventions of the senator-judges. The first to register is attorney, rather, Senator-Judge Padilla. Thereafter, Senator-Judge Antiveros. Kindly take note of the sequence. Trial is, we are on recess until 1 o'clock.

**[03:10:16.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Miss Aileen, you are under the same oath and will continue with your testimony. You are under cross-examination by the counsel for the respondent.

**[03:10:25.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[03:10:28.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Nakakain na po kayo, ma'am?

**[03:10:29.760] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, Your Honor. Thank you, ma'am.

**[03:10:33.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine, are you ready?

**[03:10:37.170] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:10:38.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, ma'am, with the continuation of your cross-examination.

**[03:10:42.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, can I have a few manifestations, Your Honor, please?

**[03:10:46.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
A few minutes of?

**[03:10:47.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
A few manifestations lang po, Your Honor.

**[03:10:50.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, ma'am, you may do so.

**[03:10:52.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Actually, Your Honor, we would like to ask this court to not allow side comments like, I was about to spank her, I was about to lecture her, kasi yung mga ganun, Your Honor, wala ho yung lugar dito sa courtroom. Because we are all lawyers here, we are all professionals, iga lang naman ho natin yung kapwa natin na lawyer. Halimbawa, At kagaya neto, mas matanda ho sa akin si Atty. Kapunan. Maybe she has more years of experience. She has 48 years, I have 15. We should learn to respect each other and refrain from making side comments, Your Honor. And that was captured by the media po. So, that is our request, Your Honor, to just remind the Council not to make those kinds of remarks. Thank you.

**[03:11:39.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Kapunan already... Although you are correct, it was already heard since we're on TV, Atty. Caponan withdrew that statement earlier if I remember correctly.

**[03:11:49.530] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Your Honor. In fact, I hope it was also part of the records that I promised to behave.

**[03:11:57.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank

**[03:11:57.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you, po.

**[03:11:58.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you,

**[03:11:58.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor.

**[03:12:00.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you to both parties.

**[03:12:04.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, can you continue, Atty. Christine?

**[03:12:06.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:12:08.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly do so, ma'am. You may proceed when you're ready. Ms. Aileen, kindly answer the cross-examination questions of Attorney Christine.

**[03:12:16.160] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po, Your Honor. So, hello,

**[03:12:36.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Aileen. Good afternoon, po. Okay, I hope you're fine. Okay ka pa naman, no? So, let's go to the liquidation of confidential funds.

**[03:12:49.180] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That is under section 6.2.3 of the JC.

**[03:12:56.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, I will ask my counsel to give you a copy of the JC. Please.

**[03:13:01.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsel may approach. Assisting counsel for the prosecutors may likewise approach to view the document.

**[03:13:09.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kindly peruse the JC under 6.2.3.

**[03:13:24.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Under that provision,

**[03:13:30.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That

**[03:13:31.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
provision enumerates the liquidation documents that should be submitted to the ICPAO, right?

**[03:13:38.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:13:39.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
First is liquidation report, correct?

**[03:13:42.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[03:13:43.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Next, certified copy of the check and paid DV. or disbursement voucher of the cash advance drawn for the CF being liquidated, signed, and or approved by the head of office with certification by the agency accountant stamped and printed on the DV. Is that correct?

**[03:14:03.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:14:04.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, and number three, documentary evidence of payments and certification from the HOA and there is a format for that under Annex B of the JC, correct?

**[03:14:16.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:14:17.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Then, physical and financial plan.

**[03:14:21.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:14:23.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And then, certified copy of accomplishment report and its proof of submission to the Office of the President, the Senate, President, and House Speaker. Is that correct?

**[03:14:32.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:14:33.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And then, copy of the transmitted letter of the DV and supporting documents pertaining to the cash advance being liquidated. Tapos yan ay may received. receiving copy ng COA audit team leader.

**[03:14:48.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:14:49.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, lahat naman ho yan, no, based sa inyong audit, na-submit ho yan ng Office of the Vice President for the fourth quarter of 2022 as well as the first to third quarters of 2023.

**[03:15:03.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, okay.

**[03:15:05.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nasubmit din ho yan when it comes to the liquidation of confidential funds of the DepEd for the first to third quarter of 2023.

**[03:15:15.220] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama.

**[03:15:16.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you po. So, precisely nga, yun nga yung nag-come up ho kayo, nag-come up ho kayo ng audit findings ninyo in the form of the notices of this allowance.

**[03:15:26.160] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, doon na po ako pumasok sa notices of this allowance. Okay,

**[03:15:30.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
so,

**[03:15:31.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can we go back to the second ND? Ralph, can you please give a copy to the witness?

**[03:15:40.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That is dated March 1, 2026.

**[03:15:44.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
31.

**[03:15:45.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
31, Your Honor. I stand corrected. March 31, 2026.

**[03:15:51.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, do you have that copy already? Let's go to paragraph 2, Celine.

**[03:15:58.940] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Paragraph 2.

**[03:16:01.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
It says there, based on the results of our evaluation, we drew consideration to subsequent information given under oath during the hearings of the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability of the House of Representatives. The amount of 375 million is hereby disallowed in audit. Nakita niyo ba yan? Opo, tama po. So, I'm just curious. Celine, isn't it that the audit of confidential expenses be based on the liquidation documents submitted by the agency? Pwede din po kaming mag-rely sa available information

**[03:16:42.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po. Mag-rely

**[03:16:43.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa available information.

**[03:16:47.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po. And yung information po na ito is galing dun sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

**[03:16:56.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, I just cited that. I'll propound questions later. But nakalagay ho ba sa JC na pwede kayong mag-rely specifically dun sa committee hearing na ginawa ng CGGPA, Committee on Good Governance and Public Accountability?

**[03:17:14.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
pwede po siyang pumasok dun sa 6.2.3.7 na other supporting documents or necessary for the audit. Dun po siya papasok.

**[03:17:23.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Dun siya papasok sa other supporting documents.

**[03:17:28.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi parang additional information po.

**[03:17:32.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ah, okay. But isn't that a hearing?

**[03:17:35.760] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala namang ano ba yung documents na nanggagaling dun from

**[03:17:46.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Anyway, I'll redraw my question. Pero,

**[03:17:52.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
naalala mo yung nag-testify dito si Wamil? Si auditor, co-auditor Wamil? Naalala mo yun? The day before you testified.

**[03:18:04.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, nag-testify po siya. Pero ano pong...

**[03:18:07.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, okay. I'm about to ask you a question. So, noong August 5, 2026, nag-testify si... Atty. Walmil. And he was asked by the good senator, Erwin Tulfo, and the good senator said, nasa ano po yan, journal, but I'm saying, every agency na meron pong intel or confidential fund, Do they have to undergo audit periodically or random lang? Dahil marami po tayong ahensya ng gobyerno na may intelligence confidential fund na hindi naman dapat.

**[03:18:46.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And attorney Wamil said, ang audit po namin ay based dun sa liquidation documents na sinubmit po nila. So, would you agree with me that The TSNs that form part of the CGGPA hearings were not part of the liquidation documents that were submitted by the OVP.

**[03:19:09.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po siya naging part ng submission, pero...

**[03:19:12.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay lang, okay, I have to, ano, okay na yun, no? You can answer me with yes or no, no? So, hindi ho part yun sa liquidation documents ng OVP. Your Honor, this question is misleading. This witness

**[03:19:25.970] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
never testified.

**[03:19:29.010] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
that it is part of the submissions or documents submitted by the OVP or DepEd by way of liquidation of confidential funds.

**[03:19:38.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think counsel is quoting paragraph 2 of the notice of disqualification that they took into account based on the results with due consideration. They took into consideration. The Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability report. Witness may answer.

**[03:20:01.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. Pwede pong pakiulit yung tanong?

**[03:20:05.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sige.

**[03:20:06.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Agree ho ba kayo na yung mga transcript of stenographic notes doon sa CGGPA hearing, Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, hindi po kasama doon sa liquidation documents na sinubmit po ng OVP, Office of the Vice President.

**[03:20:16.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po kasama sa submission.

**[03:20:25.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Salamat po. Hindi din po. kasama doon sa sinubmit na liquidation documents po ng DepEd?

**[03:20:26.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi din po.

**[03:20:35.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Thank you.

**[03:20:39.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Let's go back to the notice of disallowance, please.

**[03:20:47.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[03:20:48.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can we go to the opening statement? Yung we have audited the submitted liquidation forms. Nakita niyo po yan?

**[03:20:56.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[03:20:57.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, that opening statement says, we have audited the submitted liquidation reports and its supporting documents for the cash advances of confidential fund of the OVP for the period February 6 to 30 of the calendar year 2023 as detailed below. I am reading it right?

**[03:21:21.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[03:21:22.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, okay.

**[03:21:31.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Based dito, no? Dito nga, no? Yung audit ninyo are based lang dun sa submitted documents.

**[03:21:43.190] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, based po dun sa submitted documents. Thank you.

**[03:21:47.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Now, dun po tayo sa ND, no?

**[03:21:53.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
May nakalagay, let's, you can go over po, no? May nakalagay po ba na word yan na misuse of funds? Ground po ba yun ng disallowance? If you go over the ND.

**[03:22:11.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po dito yung word na misuse.

**[03:22:15.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll ask you later, no? If I have questions on that. Okay, thank you. So wala ho doon, no? How about the word corruption? Mayroon ho ba?

**[03:22:27.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based po dito sa wordings ng ND, walang nakalagay po.

**[03:22:31.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, how about misappropriation? May nakalagay ho ba dyan?

**[03:22:38.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung mismong word po na yun, wala rito. Pero, Mr. Preside, yun lang ho

**[03:22:43.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung tanong ko.

**[03:22:44.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly just answer the question, Ms. Eileen, so that we can move forward faster. Kung ano na po yung tanong.

**[03:22:49.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay po.

**[03:22:50.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Opposing counsel will have her chance at redirect.

**[03:22:53.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, dun tayo sa acknowledgement receipts.

**[03:22:59.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Earlier, you testified that you reviewed the acknowledgement receipts. Okay, which form part of the liquidation documents ng OVP at saka ng DepEd?

**[03:23:12.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama.

**[03:23:13.280] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In

**[03:23:13.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
fact, nag-come up kayo noong summary?

**[03:23:16.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, during my evaluation, tinabulate ko po yung acknowledgement receipts.

**[03:23:20.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, and you have reviewed 1,823 ARs for the OVP. Tama ba yung number na yon?

**[03:23:32.190] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang paghahanda-tanda ko po is hindi ko makakanya yung total, pero 519 sa first, 530, and 774 sa third quarter.

**[03:23:41.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court will confirm 1,823 as manifested by the counsel for the panel of prosecutors.

**[03:23:47.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, and for the DepEd, it's 1,824?

**[03:23:51.290] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:23:52.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, for a total of 3,647 ARs.

**[03:23:57.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, for the 2023 po ng voting. Yes, that is,

**[03:24:04.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'm about to ask that, no? That pertains to the first three quarters of those two agencies. Correct? Opo, tama

**[03:24:12.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po.

**[03:24:12.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Now, of course, in identifying the ARs kahapon, no, you provided schedules.

**[03:24:22.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung tabulation ko po.

**[03:24:25.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We

**[03:24:26.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
will be showing the schedules, Your Honor, to the Witness?

**[03:24:29.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
When you say schedule, counsel, you mean dates? The

**[03:24:32.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
summaries, Your Honor, that they provided to us yesterday.

**[03:24:36.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the dates.

**[03:24:37.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
They're not schedules, Your Honor. Or summaries, I stand corrected.

**[03:24:41.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tables and summaries. They're tabulations,

**[03:24:42.480] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor.

**[03:24:43.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, tables and summaries. Just

**[03:24:44.380] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
to clarify, Honorable President. Yes, Attorney Capunan. The documents presented by this witness are of two natures. One is a tabulation, which is marked. And the other is a summary. The summary of the tabulations, Your Honor. Separately marked, Your Honor. So what is counsel referring to? The summary? The tabulation? I will

**[03:25:09.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
be confronting the witness.

**[03:25:12.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, counsel.

**[03:25:13.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:25:18.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So you have identified this in open court, this summary and tabulations.

**[03:25:31.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, for the

**[03:25:40.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
first quarter, that's February 1 to March 30, 2023.

**[03:25:47.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Can

**[03:25:48.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you produce this? This was marked as Exhibit P-1-33 of the prosecution.

**[03:25:57.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So that's the tabulation for

**[03:25:59.290] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the first quarter? Is that the tabulation that you made for the first quarter of 2023?

**[03:26:06.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, ito po yung tabulation for the first quarter of 2023 ng DepEd.

**[03:26:11.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. So, in this tabulation, you provided the date, the document, the particulars, and the amount. Opo, tama po. But you did not provide the place of payment.

**[03:26:28.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong, ang nilagay ko lang po hanggang dyan.

**[03:26:31.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hanggang dito lang. Okay. Importante yun ba yung place of payment sa findings ng COA

**[03:26:37.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
-EGFAO? Hindi po namin isinama yun sa findings po namin.

**[03:26:42.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Hindi ninyo isinama sa findings ninyo such that kung may disbursements on the same date and they occurred in different places, hindi na covered yun ng findings ng COA-EGFAO.

**[03:26:57.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Because we presume regularity po dahil dun sa certification na certification under oath ng SDO that it was for confidential operations and it is necessary and for legal purposes. Okay, thank you.

**[03:27:14.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I'm showing you another set of Do you call this summary or schedule? Tabulation. Okay, tabulation. This was marked as your Exhibit P-1-32?

**[03:27:30.310] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:27:31.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
This tabulation pertains to, you're the one who... This is

**[03:27:36.030] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
for OBP for the third quarter of 2023 po.

**[03:27:41.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Hindi rin nakalagay yung lugar na...

**[03:27:49.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
place of payment in each of the tabulations

**[03:27:52.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
that you made. Yung mga acknowledgement receipts po kasi sa OBP, walang nakalagay na address.

**[03:27:58.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, I'm asking you. Ask and answer, Your Honor. Hindi, I'm asking her, Your Honor. That's the answer. I'm confirming na wala ditong nakalagay na place of payment. Wala po. Wala po sa OBP.

**[03:28:12.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. And, sorry, I'll go back to this document, no? Wala din siyang perma at pangalan mo. Kasi po working

**[03:28:23.230] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
paper ko lang po.

**[03:28:24.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Working paper mo to. Okay. Wala din siyang heading.

**[03:28:29.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi

**[03:28:29.890] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na

**[03:28:30.270] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po nailagay dito sa partner ko.

**[03:28:31.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi na

**[03:28:31.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
nailagay. Hindi

**[03:28:32.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ka nalilito? Kasi po yung dates po is pertaining to the third quarter. Alright. Wala din perma. Kasi nga working paper mo. Ask and

**[03:28:41.010] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
answered, Your Honor. Ask and answered. No

**[03:28:42.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
working papers, no

**[03:28:43.750] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
signature needed.

**[03:28:44.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ask and answered. Move on, counsel.

**[03:28:47.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please, the lawyer is, counsel, is answering for the witness. I was asking for the signature.

**[03:28:54.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please.

**[03:28:56.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lorna, it's okay. Asked and answered, counsel, move on. She already answered that it's her working paper and therefore did not

**[03:29:03.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sign it.

**[03:29:03.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:29:06.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Of course, eto rin, no? This one is Schedule P-1-34. kasi hindi ko ma-identify kung anong schedule ho yan. Again, Your Honor, it is a summary. Yung may

**[03:29:21.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
mga

**[03:29:21.890] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
nakalagay po na counter-insurgency, abuse prevention and control within schools, anti-illegal operations, at anti-extremism, it's for the Department of Education. Okay.

**[03:29:35.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero, okay, of course, it did not say the Department of Education.

**[03:29:40.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, pero yun po yung...

**[03:29:41.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, yun yun.

**[03:29:43.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sige.

**[03:29:44.840] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And then,

**[03:29:47.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
etong counter, etong P-1-35, ano ho ito? Kasi nakalagay yung counter-insurgency programs, July 12, September 30, 2023.

**[03:30:02.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ito po is for the Department of Education for the third quarter po ng 2023. So,

**[03:30:08.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
hindi nakalagay yung Department of Education dito. Kasi ka working paper mo lang. Opo.

**[03:30:27.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ito namang sa OVP, April 25 to June 30, 2023, date of receipt, of Czech, April 24, 2023. Now by reading it, I don't seem to understand what this means.

**[03:30:54.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ano ho to? Ito po yung summary nung tabulation ko ng Office of the Vice President Acknowledgement Receipt for the period April 25 to June 30, 2023. Dito po kasi kaya ito naka open and close parenthesis na date of check April 24. Kasi ito po yung pagbebisan ko kasi yung sa circular po bawal ang reimbursement. Thank

**[03:31:17.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you.

**[03:31:19.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So anyway, you...

**[03:31:23.340] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
made the caption this way, kasi nga, working paper mo lang. Ikaw, naiintindihan mo naman siya. Opo, tama po.

**[03:31:31.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wala ding lugar, yung place of payment na nilagay mo dito. Opo,

**[03:31:37.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
wala din po dyan, saka wala rin pong nakalagay sa mismong acknowledge.

**[03:31:39.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, ang dami nito, no? So, I'm asking, etong mismong schedule na to, walang nakalagay na lugar. Your Honor, please, if

**[03:31:51.110] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
I may.

**[03:31:51.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel.

**[03:31:53.090] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please. I think this witness already answered and was stopped mid-sentence. She said, walang nakalagay na lugar kasi wala naman nakalagay na lugar sa dokumentong sinubmit ng...

**[03:32:06.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Only for that particular one, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. Not for all. But I think I saw the documents, counsel. All of the tabulations of the witness, Aileen, For all the quarters in 2023, for both DPED and OVP, does not contain either names nor places in the acknowledgement receipt. Correct, Ma'am Celine?

**[03:32:34.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong nakalagay dun sa tabulation ko.

**[03:32:36.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
It only contains

**[03:32:37.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the date, the activity, and the amount.

**[03:32:40.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung ano yung document, acknowledgement receipt. Yes,

**[03:32:44.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the nature of the document. But again, no name. Whether it's an alias or a real name and no address.

**[03:32:50.790] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. I'll continue, Your Honor, at the

**[03:32:53.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
podium.

**[03:33:24.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, okay.

**[03:33:35.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll continue my questions. With my questions. Now, the ICFAO confines its audit on the face of the acknowledgement receipts, correct?

**[03:33:48.480] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po.

**[03:33:49.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[03:33:52.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Whether, that is to determine whether The ARs support the disbursements under audit.

**[03:33:59.890] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, ang

**[03:34:00.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
chinecheck po namin is yung acknowledgement receipt, sinusuportahan ba niya yung activities accomplishment report?

**[03:34:07.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Okay. In fact, si Atty. Wamil, as you know, he confirmed on August 3, 2026, hearing that the ICFAO does not verify the identities of the PAYEs reflected in the

**[03:34:22.690] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
ARs. Are you aware of that? We based po on the face of the document po. Okay.

**[03:34:36.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In fact, when he was asked by the good senator, Erwin Tulfo, on August 5, about aliases, this is what he said, Atty. Wamil, this can be found in the journal.

**[03:34:53.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, Senator Erwin Tulfo, so if this is not allowed or prohibited, I mean, bakit nang i-audit po ninyo ang Confidential Intelligence Fund po ng OVP? Hindi ba ninyo hiningi ang tunay na pagkakakilanlan ni Napiatos, McDonald's, Mickey Mouse, at iba pa? At ang sagot po ni Atty. Wamil, Ang katulad nga po nung sinabi ko sa aking previous testimony, ang focus po ng audit namin ay compliance audit. So kung ano po yung provision ng circular, doon lang po, yun lang po yung ginagawa naming basis ng audit.

**[03:35:49.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your audit is based on the provisions of the JC. Ask and

**[03:35:54.960] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
answer, Your Honor. Compliance with the provisions of the JC. Likewise,

**[03:36:01.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ask and

**[03:36:01.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
answer, Your Honor. Thank you.

**[03:36:16.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so, as correctly said by Mr. Wamil, the JC does not mandate that you conduct the identities of the pays reflected in the AR.

**[03:36:29.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Do you confirm that? Pwede pong pakiulit.

**[03:36:33.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay.

**[03:36:34.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Gaya ng sinabi ni Atty. Wamil, you do not conduct a verification of the identities of the pays reflected in the AR.

**[03:36:44.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, hindi po.

**[03:36:45.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Kasi po, kung gagawin nyo yan, you will be compelled to go out there and... search for the 3,647 payees reflected in the ARs, correct? Can

**[03:36:59.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
I clarify po kung naging statement din po yun ni Mr. Warren? Kasi

**[03:37:03.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
kung i-require po kayo ng, tapos na, nasagot mo na yung statement kanina. Kaya ang next question, kasi po, kung i-require po kayo ng JC na isa-isa pong titignan o i-verify yung identities ng mga payees, recipients po ng AR,

**[03:37:23.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
lalabas kayo doon, you will search for the 3,647 pages reflected in the AR. Your Honor, please.

**[03:37:31.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel.

**[03:37:32.810] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Objection.

**[03:37:33.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
This is speculative.

**[03:37:35.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If the witness knows, masailin. Bakit hindi n'yo inaalam kung sino yung mga totoong pagkakakilanlan ng mga tao nakalagay sa AR? Because

**[03:37:46.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po, what we do is compliance audit po. We base our audit sa documents lang po.

**[03:37:51.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I will

**[03:37:52.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
follow on that, Your Honor. Precisely, you did not verify the identities of the 3,600 pays that were reflected in the ARs that you...

**[03:38:06.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Audited. Ask and answered, Your Honor.

**[03:38:08.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi pa po, Your Honor.

**[03:38:08.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Actually, counsel

**[03:38:08.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
asked and answered. She said earlier that based

**[03:38:13.170] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
on documents,

**[03:38:14.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
they presumed the regularity. I think that was the answer to that question. They presumed the regularity of the documents submitted to them.

**[03:38:22.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I will accept that, Your Honor. I was actually just adding the number of pays, Your Honor. Please

**[03:38:30.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
proceed, counsel. Yes,

**[03:38:31.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
thank you, Your Honor. So, Punta ko tayo ulit sa JC. May format po ba yung JC kung ano dapat

**[03:38:38.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung acknowledgement receipts?

**[03:38:41.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang nakalagay lang po sa Joint Circular is Documents, Evidencing, Payments.

**[03:38:46.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
No, ito

**[03:38:48.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
po yung tanong ko, no? May format po ba yung Joint Circular kung ano dapat yung itsura po ng acknowledgement receipts? Wala pong

**[03:38:57.030] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
format yung acknowledgement receipts sa Joint Circular. Okay, thank you.

**[03:39:05.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, therefore, kasi wala hong format yung joint circular, pwede hong gumawa, may discretion ho yung agency kung ano po dapat yung nakalagay doon sa acknowledgement receipt nila.

**[03:39:21.450] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Basta po makita namin sa dokumento yung proof of payment doon sa recipients po. Yun po yung itinicheck namin.

**[03:39:29.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. Let's go to the names. that were in the ARs. So, sabi ho ni Atty. Wamil, noong August 5, 2026, hearing, sabi ho niya, the use of aliases is neither allowed nor prohibited in the ARs. Now, the use of aliases in the ARs. Are you aware of that?

**[03:39:56.290] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po, silent po ang joint circular sa alias po.

**[03:40:00.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, thank you. In fact, kung...

**[03:40:05.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
nakinig ka ho, or nakikita mo ho sa TV, sinabi ho ng ating good senator, Bam Aquino, noong August 5, sabi ho niya, okay, dito naman sa tumanggap, allowed ba yung code names, allowed ba yung alias sa inyo, ang sabi ho niya attorney Wamil, based on the provision, it is neither allowed nor prohibited, since silent po yung joint circular. Oo po, silent po ang joint circular. Okay. Now, Do you confirm that the J.C. does not have a provision on names or aliases? Ask and answer, Your Honor.

**[03:40:41.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your

**[03:40:41.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor.

**[03:40:41.900] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, excuse me.

**[03:40:44.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Counsel, Attorney Governor.

**[03:40:45.800] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Precisely, this witness asked if aliases are allowed. She said it is neither allowed nor disallowed. So it is silent, Your Honor. Now she's asking the same question in another fashion.

**[03:40:59.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll let it go this time for emphasis, counsel, but I'll move on to your next point after that, Attorney Christina.

**[03:41:05.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor. Do you confirm that the JC does not have provision on names or aliases?

**[03:41:13.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi yung kanina silent 2 yung sinabi. So, wala po, walang provision on names or aliases.

**[03:41:19.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong nakalagay sa Joint Circular as to the alias po. Okay. So, and

**[03:41:28.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
this is precisely why the ICFA has no... Findings on the alleged use of names or aliases.

**[03:41:35.420] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, ang mahalaga po kasi is naibigay talaga ito sa totoong tao na for allowable confidential expenses. Ang

**[03:41:42.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
tanong ko ho, wala hong findings si Ikfaw on the names, on the use of fictitious names or aliases. Nasa notices of disallowance po ba yun? Wala pong nakalagay

**[03:41:56.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa notices of disallowance.

**[03:41:57.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, I am showing you the first ND. That's the August 2024 notice of disallowance. Just a run through, Your Honor. May hawak na po kayo ngayon? Oo po. Nakikita niyo ba ho yung name d'yan na Mary Grace Piatos? Wala po. How about Renan Piatos? Wala din po. Andy Silim? Wala po. Patty Ting?

**[03:42:28.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po. Thank

**[03:42:30.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
you. Now, let's go to the second notice of this allowance. Kindly flash that. That's dated March 31, 2026. Okay. During your direct examination, the good counsel flashed on the screen sample ARs showing the following names. Does she have a copy of the second ND? Now, I will ask you. if the following names are in the second notice of this allowance. That's dated March 31, 2026. Pia Piatus Lim. Meron ba dyan? Wala po. Ralph Josh Bacon. Wala din po. Anne Ungpauko. Wala po. Diane Maple Lapid. Wala din po. Miggy Mayo. Wala po. Kokoy Villamin. Wala po. Denise Tanya Escudero. Wala po sa notice of disallowance. Christine Applegate Estrada. Wala din po. Okay. Okay, so wala ho kayong findings doon. Gaya ng sinabi n'yo kanina. So, may tanong ho ako sa inyo, no? Kung yung pangalan ho ba... If the name appears to be funny, does that automatically... mean that the name is fictitious? Kasi nga, may mga chinlash po na ARs dito.

**[03:44:01.480] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, the question is misleading. The point of flashing these acknowledgement receipts were not the names. The names were incidental, that the names were funny or fruit salad-y or names of congressmen or senators, Your Honor, is immaterial. They were flashed because of the manner by which the funds were used. Counsel, you

**[03:44:24.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
have to admit, you had fun with the names. We had

**[03:44:28.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
so much fun, Your

**[03:44:29.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor. Exactly. So, let her cross the witness based on those and utilize it as well.

**[03:44:36.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, ayun po, kung nakakatawa ho ba yung pangalan, automatic, fictitious na yun. Your

**[03:44:43.940] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, again,

**[03:44:44.660] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
fictitious.

**[03:44:45.480] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, Counsel. Just for the record, fictitious is her own conclusion. We have made no such conclusion as regards to the name, except perhaps that they are funny. Your Honor.

**[03:44:56.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Well, counsel, actually, that's not entirely accurate because in the complaint, you did allude to the fact that some of the names are fictitious based on the PSA documents that you attached as an annex to the complaint, although you're not yet there. You haven't gotten there yet. Please continue, Atty. Christine. Atty. Kapunan, give her her share of fun with the names.

**[03:45:19.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
May I be allowed, Your Honor, to sit down while she's having fun?

**[03:45:22.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Atty. Kapunan, you may do so. Atty. Christine, please proceed. Okay,

**[03:45:27.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I will continue my question, Your Honor. If a name appears to be funny, does it mean it's fictitious?

**[03:45:35.220] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi ko po siya masasagot

**[03:45:37.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
kasi... Hindi mo siya masasagot, meaning? Kasi hindi ko na, wala po namang yung base, yung sa name po kasi hindi ko masasagot kung Totoo

**[03:45:47.500] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
o hindi? Oo.

**[03:45:48.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay.

**[03:45:49.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, in short, hindi mo masasabi na porkit nakakatawa yung pangalan, eh peke na yun. Yun o ba sinasabi ninyo?

**[03:45:56.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Parang hindi po ako makakasagot dun sa tanong na ganun.

**[03:46:02.670] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, basta walang findings na ganun, no?

**[03:46:05.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To

**[03:46:05.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clarify, let me help you a bit, Atty. Christine. Wala kayong binanggit tungkol sa mga pangalang nakakatuwa o nakakatawa sa dalawang Notice of Disallowance, Celine? Wala, di ba?

**[03:46:17.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[03:46:18.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Wala rin sa anumang AOM binanggit yun, di ba?

**[03:46:20.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala din po.

**[03:46:23.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kahit yung mga lugar kung saan binayaran, wala kayong binanggit sa AOM o sa Notice of Disallowance man?

**[03:46:29.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, wala po.

**[03:46:30.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Thank you. Please proceed,

**[03:46:32.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty.

**[03:46:33.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Christine.

**[03:46:33.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you. Thank you, Your

**[03:46:34.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor. So, now let's go to the CGGPA hearings.

**[03:46:41.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nandun ka ho noong September 18, 2024 na hearing sa

**[03:46:48.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
CGGPA. Nag-attend po ako ng mga meetings pero hindi ko na po matandaan yung exact date.

**[03:46:55.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Ito

**[03:46:56.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
yung nandun si Atty. Camora.

**[03:47:01.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi niyo matandaan. Nag-attend po pero hindi ko na matandaan yung exact date po. Okay. So, In that hearing, are you aware that she was asked by Representative Swan Singh about the grounds for disallowance under the second notice of disallowance? Did you know that?

**[03:47:25.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes,

**[03:47:28.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
we will flash the TSN. Don't worry, counsel. It's

**[03:47:33.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
okay if you don't recall, Sylene.

**[03:47:36.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po, hindi ko na po, hindi ko na po maalala yung exact na number.

**[03:47:39.770] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
May we just be

**[03:47:40.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clarified, is counsel referring to a September? September

**[03:47:43.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
18, 2024 hearing. Okay, let's go, let's flash page 29 of the TSN. On that hearing, pages 29 and 30.

**[03:47:55.770] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Please, ah, tech, okay

**[03:48:02.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
na ho?

**[03:48:05.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so, in that hearing, no, attorney, ah, Atty. Camora said, yes, good morning, Madam Chair. As to the 2022 notice of disallowance, there were three. Kasi nga tinanong siya kung ano yung grounds. Then the chairperson sabi, ma'am, pakilakasan po yung boses ninyo, hindi marinig. Ms. Camora, Okay, there were three items that are part of the notice of this allowance. The first one is non-submission of documents on the payment of rewards. The second one is charging some items that are not compliant under the rules, joint circular. And the third one is non-submission of the revised accomplishment report. On the OVP to the three regulatory offices, which are the office of the President, the Senate President, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Because they submitted the original one and they made an amendment. And then, Representative Swan Singh said, Mr. Chair, if ko wa, and then the chairperson said, please proceed, Congresswoman Swan Singh. Representative Swan Singh may... May I please be enlightened to explain to us, because it seems a little bit technical as to how it was explained by COA, kung pwede hong maipaliwanag sa atin in non-technical terms as to the grounds for disallowance. Chairperson, COA, pakisimplify, please explain it in layman's term. Ms. Camora, yes, basically, the disallowance are because hindi po nagsubmit ng required documents under the Joint Circular. Do you confirm that?

**[03:49:50.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, based po sa...

**[03:49:51.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay,

**[03:49:52.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
nasinabi niya yan. Okay. So, okay.

**[03:49:58.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Let's go to the April 14, 2026 hearing sa COJ, Committee on Justice. Nanduno kayo?

**[03:50:07.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Pero hindi ko na rin po ganong

**[03:50:09.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
maalala

**[03:50:10.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung

**[03:50:10.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
specifics.

**[03:50:11.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, okay lang. We will flash the TSN, the relevant TSN for that.

**[03:50:19.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, we are referring to page 194 of the COJ-TSN dated April 14, 2026. Kindly flash it on the screen. 194. Okay. Okay. So, in that hearing, Representative de Lima asked Attorney Camora, no, if there's anything in the COA decision dated April 10, 2026, stating that the alleged misuse of funds, stating the alleged misuse of funds, okay, just to lay the basis, no? Dito sa hearing na to, tinanong ko si Atty. Camora na kung may desisyon na ba ho yung koa doon sa appeal ni respondent, tama ho? Maalala nyo lang. Yun

**[03:51:07.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po

**[03:51:07.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ba yung sa...

**[03:51:08.830] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
April 14 na hearing. Pero pertining po ito doon sa fourth quarter 2022 ng OPP. Yes, sakto po. Okay,

**[03:51:18.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
so tinanong siya, sinabi niya may decision na nga, dated April 10. And then, Representative de Lima propounded some questions which are found on page 194 of the TSN. So sabi yun ni Representative de Lima, meron din hubang... Nakasabi, although I know, nasabi nga po, nilinaw po ng ating chair na let's wait for the copy. Iyong talagang official copy of the decision. Although you have it already, but we want really yung pinaka-official in the sense na nandyan yung hard copy. Atty. Camora said, opo. Rep. Dalima, Ay, natatandaan n

**[03:51:58.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ho ba kung yung decision na yan ay may nakasabi doon na mali talaga yung paggamit ng mga confidential fund sa OVP at hindi alinsunod sa circular, sa joint circular. Miss Camora said, Madam Chair, it's, sandali lang po ulit. Then, Representative de Lima, Hindi, sa mga tamang gamit ng confidential funds as prescribed under the Joint Circular. And then Ms. Camora said, nakalagay po, in this case, the accomplishment report on the utilization of confidential and intelligence funds, the DEPs and the certifications submitted failed to comply with the guidelines and conditions set forth under the Joint Circular po. Your

**[03:52:49.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, please, if I may interject at this moment. What

**[03:52:53.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
is the interjection of Atty. Kapunan? Your

**[03:52:55.970] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, please, counsel is reading from transcripts. She is reading from transcripts. We have judicial notice of these transcripts, Your Honor. But she is reading statements of other people and asking this witness about statements of Hamora, about statements of other people. Your Honor, just by her being present there, Your Honor. Now, if that is their intention, then they should present that witness here. Because that witness can testify on her personal knowledge. You are asking this witness who was just there, she can state that a meeting actually occurred and she was there. But if you are going to ask her to confirm, for what purpose, Your Honor? Transcripts will show the presence of Hamora. It will show her presence.

**[03:53:51.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'd like to thank Atty. Kapunan. You did not make an objection, but I would have sustained it. Atty. Christine, counsel, correspondent, this was one of the warnings of the presiding officer. At that time, directed at the prosecution actually, when they asked for the court to take judicial notice of it. Not to use the transcripts to read into the record certain things that is not being testified to by a witness that has personal knowledge over it. If you recall our interjections in relation to the Las Cañas affidavit, this is similar to that. So unless you are referring to the witness herself who testified there, kindly present the witness that you are reading the statements of because this is only as to tenor as to the fact that Camora said this. You can confront the witness through another way without reading certain statements made because the opposing counsel might just do this to you at some point which I will also not allow. To be fair.

**[03:55:01.940] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, I understand, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. But the witness already confirmed that she was at the hearing. I'm just asking if she remembers that this statement is being

**[03:55:11.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
made. It's a way and technique, counsel. Anyway,

**[03:55:14.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor.

**[03:55:15.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Gabunan might just do that with the transcripts at

**[03:55:18.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
some point, which I also will not allow. We

**[03:55:20.560] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
will just ask the question at the right time, Your Honor.

**[03:55:22.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly do so at the right time and with the right witness, counsel. At the right time, Your

**[03:55:25.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor, please.

**[03:55:26.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
At the right time and to the right witness.

**[03:55:28.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. It's not

**[03:55:29.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the right witness, Your

**[03:55:30.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor. Just as the presiding officer stated. Move on, Atty.

**[03:55:33.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Christine. Okay.

**[03:55:37.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Punta ko tayo sa time frame ng expenditures.

**[03:55:43.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nakalagay ko ba sa JC na may... minimum number of days na dapat i-utilize po yung confidential funds.

**[03:55:52.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron pong nakalagay sa Joint Circular. Hanapin ko lang po dito.

**[03:56:06.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po sa item 6.1.5 that cash advances shall be limited to the requirements for three months. Tapos, yun po, the disbursement voucher. Doon po nasa 6.1.5.

**[03:56:19.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sige, salamat po. You're referring to the cash that is being provided by the agency, which should be limited only for 3 months, tama?

**[03:56:29.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama.

**[03:56:30.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pero nakalagay ho ba sa JC na sa loob ng 3 months na yan, dapat i-utilize nyo, let's say, within, dapat i-utilize nyo ng hindi iiksi ng 10 araw, dapat merong at least 30 days na utilization. May ganun ho ba?

**[03:56:49.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong nakaspecify sa agency. Wala pong nakaspecify

**[03:56:51.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
doon.

**[03:56:52.540] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Now,

**[03:56:56.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
In fact, the determination of time and speed of utilization is outside the scope of the COA-ICFAO audit, correct?

**[03:57:07.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pwede pong paulit. Kung gaano kabilis ginastos yung pera, hindi inausakop yun ng audit ng ICFAO.

**[03:57:16.040] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, what does counsel mean by gaano kabilis?

**[03:57:21.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let me do it, counsel. Is the fact that the

**[03:57:27.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
respondent, spent the last quarter confidential funds in 11 days found in any of your AOMs or notices of disallowance?

**[03:57:36.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nabanggit lang po siya dun sa AOM na binanggit po dun na it was spent in 11 days. Pero

**[03:57:43.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
walang finding in relation to it violating the memorandum circular?

**[03:57:47.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po. Nakalagay lang po na statement na it was used for 11 days.

**[03:57:51.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As a statement of fact?

**[03:57:52.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[03:57:53.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Move on, counsel. Okay.

**[03:57:59.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Napunta naman tayo dun sa DepEd for the first to third quarters of 2023.

**[03:58:10.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So,

**[03:58:16.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
with respect to the DepEd confidential funds, nasabi nyo rin kahapon na may credit notice na

**[03:58:31.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Number 2024-162 dated August 8, 2024. Tama?

**[03:58:36.970] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay.

**[03:58:38.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung amount nun ay 75 million pesos.

**[03:58:41.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. For the two quarters.

**[03:58:43.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. And ang ibig sabihin, the credit notice was signed by the chairperson Gamaliel Cordoba.

**[03:58:52.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[03:58:53.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, the issuance of credit notice means that the confidential expenses totaling 75 million were already allowed in audit, correct?

**[03:59:05.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, based po. Based dun

**[03:59:08.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa credit notice. Okay. So, bale, yung findings ni Atty. Wamil, balik ko tayo dun sa AOM number 2024-015, pakiflash ko ulit. Yung AOM number 2024-015, dated February 1, covering the first and second quarter of 2023, binaliwala

**[03:59:34.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na ho yun ng COA. Hindi po sa binaliwala, pero nung in-evaluate po namin yung kanilang response, na-comply po yung requirements ng Joint Secular. Yun nga.

**[03:59:45.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Kinancel na yun. Kung baga hindi na inadapt ni COA yun, yung findings na yun.

**[03:59:52.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo kasi nga, during the evaluation, na-comply na yung mga issues raised sa AOM.

**[03:59:57.040] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So...

**[04:00:00.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ibig sabihin, can we go to page 3 of the AOM?

**[04:00:06.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung page 3 kasi, nakalagay dun yung mga accomplishment reports.

**[04:00:11.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We have observed that there was a lengthy direct examination here on the part of Atty. Wamil. So, ito lahat nung nakalagay sa accomplishment reports.

**[04:00:24.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Itong counter-insurgency program, abuse prevention and control within the schools, anti-illegal activities operations, anti-extremism terrorist programs, all of the amounts spent here were already allowed in audit.

**[04:00:40.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[04:00:41.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Thank you.

**[04:00:49.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
As to the third quarter naman, pending pa yung AOM.

**[04:00:54.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Di ba po?

**[04:00:55.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, under evaluation and review pa po yung response.

**[04:00:58.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, wala pa ang notice of disallowance?

**[04:01:01.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pa po kaming nilalabas na any... Wala.

**[04:01:03.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Wala ang notice of suspension, of course.

**[04:01:05.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pa po.

**[04:01:06.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[04:01:07.930] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay.

**[04:01:11.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Nung direct examination ni Atty. Wamil noong August 4, I don't know kung you were here, he was asked about internal controls. of the OVP and DepEd. At sinabi po niya, based, which I quote, I will not ask the witness if she heard it, Your Honor. That's my caveat.

**[04:01:35.750] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, again, before counsel proceeds with this line of questioning, there is only one witness here, Your Honor. There are not two. Attorney Wamil is not here. They had the opportunity to ask these questions from Attorney Wamil. Now, to ask these questions, From this witness about what attorney Wamil said, Your Honor, I think it's, I

**[04:02:00.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
was going to say, but I'll say it anyway, it's an absolute waste of time of this honorable court, Your Honor. To ask questions, to ask this witness to confirm, did you hear what attorney Wamil said? Did

**[04:02:14.810] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
you see what he said on TV? Your Honor, please, you can ask this question. Directly from this witness. Unless you want to call attorney Wamil again to the witness stand and ask questions you did not ask before. Your Honor. Counsel,

**[04:02:30.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the presiding officer will allow it because it's part of CROSS to try to test the credibility of the witness in relation to statements made by a co-worker, or at least former, a co-worker still, who...

**[04:02:45.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
turned over documents to her pertaining to the OVP and the DepEd. Kindly proceed with your question because I'm sure the witness will ask you to repeat your question again anyway. Yes,

**[04:02:57.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
thank you, Your Honor. Actually, the good counsel, Atty. Capunan, is preempting my question. Wala pa nga akong question.

**[04:03:03.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
At

**[04:03:04.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sinabi ko hindi dahil narinig niya yun o hindi. Hindi yun yung question ko. So, in that, on August 4, Tinanong si Atty. Wamil about his opinion on the internal controls of the DepEd and the Vice President. Okay, ito yung sinabi ni Atty. Kapunan. Nakita ba natin sa mga dokumento na sinubmit ng Vice President at ng Secretary of DepEd, nakita ba natin yung mga internal controls? Sabi ni Atty. Wamil, opo. Since based... On the documents po, may deficiencies pa na noted. So it can be inferred, sabi niya, na hindi strong yung kanilang internal control. Now, does the COA-ICFAO evaluate the internal control of an agency?

**[04:04:03.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa internal control po ng agency, nasa responsibility po kasi ng head of agency to institute internal control po.

**[04:04:12.820] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so in short, anong sagot ninyo doon? Yes or no po? Kasakop ba ng audit ng COA-EGFAO yung evaluation ng internal control ng OVP?

**[04:04:26.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang magiging one lang po namin dun, participation, is sa pag-evaluate ng documents. Makikita po kasi yung... No,

**[04:04:32.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
just

**[04:04:33.040] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
answer, sorry. She's answering, Your Honor.

**[04:04:36.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think witness, let the witness answer, counsel.

**[04:04:38.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay, Your Honor. Based po kasi diba dun sa evaluation ng documents, makikita kasi dun na hindi maganda yung internal control, kaya nga po nang nagsabi, kasi hindi naging compliant dun sa joint circular po.

**[04:04:51.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, but is that finding on internal control, is that something that you can... find in the notice of disallowances? Notices of disallowance, nakalagay n'yo ba doon na internal control n'yo mahina, dapat baguhin n'yo kasi hindi kayo nag-comply ng documents. Nakalagay n'yo ba

**[04:05:08.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
doon? Hindi po siya nakalagay na word pero yun po yung nasa recommendation para mag-comply nila yung documents at sa susunod na pwede po po makahiram ng copy ng AOM para lang po.

**[04:05:24.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly, Sir, notice of disallowance or I am? No, I'm

**[04:05:28.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
referring to the NDs, Ms. Witness. The

**[04:05:30.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
notice of disallowance?

**[04:05:32.010] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, yes, Your Honor. Ang tanong ko lang, simple lang yung tanong ko, nanduno ba sa findings ninyo? Okay, kaklaro ko, Your Honor. Nakalagay ho ba dun sa findings ninyo, very specific na to, na, uy, OVP, mahina yung internal control nyo, kaya dinidisallow namin itong expense

**[04:05:52.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na to. Hindi po siya nakalagay doon na mahina yung internal control. Pero dahil nga po hindi naging compliant with the Joint Circular, narereflect po doon na may kakulangan sa internal control. So in

**[04:06:05.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
short, hindi yung nakalagay doon yung internal control. Yun lang yung itong tanong ko, Sylene, no?

**[04:06:13.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yun bang si ICFAO, nagkandak po ba ng fieldwork sa satellite offices ng OVP? Pumunta ko ba kayo doon? Ay.

**[04:06:22.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based lang po kami

**[04:06:23.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa documents. Sa dokumento lang

**[04:06:24.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
talaga, no?

**[04:06:25.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
How about sa DepEd? Pumunta po ba kayo sa tanggapan ng DepEd?

**[04:06:28.600] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ah, hindi po. Based lang po sa submissions nila na documents.

**[04:06:31.680] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ah,

**[04:06:32.280] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
syempre hindi po kayo, wait, ito ah, question lang po ito, no? Out of curiosity, no? Nakapag-observe po ba kayo ng confidential operations ng OVP?

**[04:06:44.480] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ah, gaya nga po nang nasabi ko, we based lang po sa documents na submit sa amin.

**[04:06:48.880] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
How

**[04:06:49.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
about sa DepEd po? Ganun din po, based lang po dun sa documents na na-receive namin.

**[04:06:54.770] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Okay, salamat.

**[04:06:59.500] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So,

**[04:07:01.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sinabi mo, as mentioned earlier, may dalawang notices na tayo of disallowance. Okay.

**[04:07:11.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yung first notice natin, yung December 2022, yung fourth quarter. Aware naman po kayo na na-appeal po yun sa commission proper, no? Yes po, na-furnishan po kami noong petition

**[04:07:23.820] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
for review.

**[04:07:24.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Oo, kasi signatory ka dun sa answer na final ng ikfaw?

**[04:07:28.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[04:07:29.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Alright. And on April, sorry, on April 10, the commission proper issued a decision. Tama? Opo. And then nag-file ho yung respondent doon, si respondent vice president, ng motion for reconsideration. Sinabi nyo kayapon? Opo, na-furnishan po

**[04:07:55.010] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
kami ng office namin.

**[04:07:56.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So yung motion for reconsideration ngayon, pending pa ho yun? Walang resolution? Sa pagkakaalam ko po, wala pa po.

**[04:08:06.690] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi wala ka pang nare-receive na resolution. Usually po kasi pag may decision, nafe-furnish yan yung office namin. Wala pa pong nafe-furnish sa amin.

**[04:08:15.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So,

**[04:08:16.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa inyo pong palagay, no? Based po sa inyong karanasan as auditor, no? The Supreme Court may affirm, modify, or reverse the COA decision?

**[04:08:30.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pwede pong pakiulit. Hindi po. Okay. Sige. Basis ninyong karanasan kasi 12 years na ho kayong auditor, no? Yung mga ina-appeal pong ganito, halimbawa nag-appeal ho si respondent, vice president doon sa Supreme Court, pwede hong i-affirm, you know what affirm is? Pwede hong modify, baguhin, at pwede hong modify, meaning may pagbabago, at i-reverse, baliktarin yung COA decision. Yun po yung mga posibilidad pag nag-appeal tayo sa Supreme Court. Your Honor,

**[04:09:04.090] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
please, the question is misleading. Counsel is misleading because that is not what the law is. There is no such thing as appeal to the Supreme Court. There is petition for certiorari or on grave abuse, Your Honor. The witness

**[04:09:20.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may answer, Counsel. We're not

**[04:09:22.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
dealing

**[04:09:23.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
with strictly legal matters here. I doubt if she understands the difference between articles, rather rule 45 and 65 of the rules of court. Because the

**[04:09:33.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
witness is a layman.

**[04:09:34.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If she knows, whatever you know, Sylene, in relation to the question.

**[04:09:39.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa pagkakaalam ko lang po, ang finafile po sa Supreme Court is petition for certiorari. Yes, okay.

**[04:09:48.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ang tanong ko doon is, ang maaring maging output, o risulta, no? Pwedeng ma-affirm yun ng Supreme Court, pwedeng ma-modify, at pwedeng i-reverse. Yun po yung mga posibilidad. Di po ba? Your Honor, these are legal remedies.

**[04:10:04.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness would

**[04:10:05.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
not know, Counsel. Witness would not

**[04:10:06.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
know, incompetent.

**[04:10:07.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Move on, Counsel. Okay,

**[04:10:09.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I'll move on, Your Honor. So, punta ako tayo sa second, second disallowance, no? Notice of disallowance. Yung date po noon, March 31, 2026. Okay?

**[04:10:22.230] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
na-receive siya noong April 20, 2026, at sinabi n'yo kahapon na may 180 days pa para mag-appeal yung respondent. At kung sino mang nakapangalan doon sa notice na yun.

**[04:10:36.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
At

**[04:10:36.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sinabi n'yo kahapon na the respondent is well within the regulatory period to file her appeal.

**[04:10:44.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[04:10:46.200] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, in short, Yung first and second notices na to, wala pang final and executory dito.

**[04:10:56.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa final and executory po na yun, yun pong sa...

**[04:11:01.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi, okay, sige, tatlo. I

**[04:11:04.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
will... I will modify my question.

**[04:11:07.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Rephrase, counsel. Okay.

**[04:11:08.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
When does a notice of disallowance become final and executory?

**[04:11:13.330] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa COWA-IGFAO po kasi, once nag-issue kami ng disallowance, under the joint circular po, kailangan itong i-restore sa book. So magiging part ito ng unliquidated cash advance at ang yung nakalagay po dito is i-restitute na po yung amount.

**[04:11:31.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can you listen to my question? That's your answer, Your Honor. Ang

**[04:11:33.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
question ko, when does the notice of disallowance become final and executory? So, yung answer mo is based dun sa?

**[04:11:43.810] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based po kasi

**[04:11:44.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa ND. So, pag-issue ng ND, final and executory na yun?

**[04:11:48.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. May demand po to restitute po. Pero yun nga, meron pang remedy which is mag-file po sa ng appeal sa commission proper.

**[04:11:57.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, isn't it that a A notice of disallowance becomes final and executory upon issuance of a notice of finality of decision. Aware ko kayo niyan kasi nagpa-practice ko kayo sa ICFAO. Yung notice of finality of decision. Okay. So, in fact, can we flash it on the screen, please? That is under item 3.21 of the Joint Circular. Nakalagay ko, no? If you can go over. the item, notice of finality of decision. Nakalagay ho, a written notification that a decision of the Commission on Audit has become final and executory. Agree mo ba kayo sa definition na yan? Opo. Okay.

**[04:12:49.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, in this case, wala pa po tayong nare-receive na notice of finality of decision. Wala pa po. Okay. Salamat.

**[04:13:03.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Now, Tinanong kayo kahapon about misappropriation. Nalala n'yo under 8.3 ng JC?

**[04:13:18.310] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sige,

**[04:13:19.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
go ahead. Just look for it.

**[04:13:22.650] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Apo.

**[04:13:24.510] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. So, tinanong kayo na you were asked as to when does a prima facia presumption of misappropriation for personal benefit by an accountable officer arise under section or item 8.3 of the JC. Anong sagot n'yo? You equated that with failure to liquidate. Tama ko?

**[04:13:55.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[04:13:55.700] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. Anong sinabi n'yo? When we say failure to liquidate, correct me if I'm wrong, sinabi n'yo, when there is submission of incomplete documents. Yun ang sinabi n'yo kahapon. Tama ko ba? yung pag-intindi ko?

**[04:14:13.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pakiulit.

**[04:14:15.010] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. Sinabi sa inyo kahapon, tinanong kayo, when is there failure to liquidate? Sinabi niyo, pag may incomplete submission ng documents, there is failure to liquidate. Tama po ba?

**[04:14:28.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Can I clarify po? Baka...

**[04:14:31.070] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Sige, ulitin ko na lang yung tanong sa'yo ngayon. Kailan mo ba natin masasabi under 8.3 ng JC that there is a failure to liquidate?

**[04:14:42.640] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po dito sa UBP, pag po kasi yung notice of disallowance na issue na, babalik siya as part ng unliquidated cash advance ng SDO.

**[04:14:57.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so I will stop you there, sorry. Kailan ho masasabi na may failure to liquidate? Kapo nung sinabi n'yo, kahit nag-liquidate, pero may incomplete submission ng documents. Totoo po ba yun? Pinapanindigan n'yo o binabago yun yung statement na yun ngayon?

**[04:15:17.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang kuhaan ko po dun is yung failure to liquidate is yun nga po, pag na-ending na siya at naibalik na to sa book, may magpo-form part ng unliquidated cash advance. So lalabas siya na failure to liquidate.

**[04:15:30.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Kahit yung reason ng ND is incomplete submission of documents. Kasi nga po, yung... Let's answer me. Para ano lang tayo, no? Your Honor,

**[04:15:39.790] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
argumentative already. This witness was asked, what do you mean by failure to liquidate? And she answered. Kaya nga po... You're not arguing with the

**[04:15:48.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness,

**[04:15:48.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor.

**[04:15:49.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Modifier question, counsel. Okay.

**[04:15:51.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Sinabi nyo that, you know, there's failure to liquidate pag meron ng ND. Okay. So, follow-up question. Kahit yung ND, yung ground niya is incomplete submission of documents. Meron pa rin yung failure to liquidate, tama? Opo, kasi nga, magiging form siya ng unliquidated cash advance

**[04:16:09.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
ng SDO.

**[04:16:10.640] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you. Okay. So, dyan sa 8.3, nakita niyo ba ho may citation ho yan sa gilid? Yung Supreme Court case na Antonio Martinez versus People and Sandigan Bayan, GR No. 126413, dated August 20, 1999. Nakita nyo ba yung citation na yan? Hindi ko po siya nabasa.

**[04:16:34.360] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ah,

**[04:16:34.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
hindi nyo po siya nabasa. Okay.

**[04:16:37.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so, do you know that that case involves a former OICN acting mayor of Caloocan City who failed to submit liquidation of his cash advances upon demand by the treasurer? Ask and answer, Your Honor. This witness says she

**[04:16:52.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
does not know

**[04:16:53.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
this case. She did not

**[04:16:54.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
read it, counsel.

**[04:16:55.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so in short, Yung citation dyan sa 8.3, hindi nyo alam yung legal basis kasi hindi nyo nabasa yung Martinez case. Ask

**[04:17:03.750] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
and answered, Your Honor. Okay, hindi. Ask

**[04:17:05.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
and answered.

**[04:17:06.070] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I will take that as a no, Your Honor.

**[04:17:23.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Now, okay.

**[04:17:28.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Do you agree that the COA is an independent constitutional commission?

**[04:17:33.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po. It was established under Article 9b of the Constitution.

**[04:17:39.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Improper for cross, Your Honor.

**[04:17:41.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, she's from COA. So, um,

**[04:17:45.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assistant Counsel, kindly give the paper that fell. Um, if she knows. Um, Cylene, if you know.

**[04:17:55.480] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, COA is an independent body po.

**[04:17:58.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, in that case, COA should be free from political pressure? Tama? In your own opinion?

**[04:18:07.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
COA po is an independent body.

**[04:18:09.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[04:18:09.650] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Opo. Independent. Free dapat siya from legislative inference.

**[04:18:16.260] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, independent po ang COA. Free dapat

**[04:18:19.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
siya from executive control. Your Honor, please ask and answer. Independent body, that's what independent body means. I'll give

**[04:18:28.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
her some leeway for emphasis, counsel.

**[04:18:31.580] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Please

**[04:18:32.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
answer the question, Zailina. Independent from the executive.

**[04:18:36.890] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po.

**[04:18:37.970] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
So, it is important that the COA's findings be solely based on its procedures and evidence. Do you agree with that?

**[04:18:45.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po.

**[04:18:46.340] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. And any information that is obtained outside should be verified by appropriate audit procedures. Tama? Your

**[04:18:57.860] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor, please, the question is vague. What does counsel

**[04:19:00.240] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
mean? Ask and

**[04:19:00.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
answer, Your Honor.

**[04:19:01.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ask and answer, then I know where she's going at. Yes. Get to it, counsel.

**[04:19:05.660] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. And yet, yung second ND po ninyo, in-adopt nyo po yung supposed... Results of investigation dun sa CGGPA hearings. Tama?

**[04:19:18.230] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po, ito po po.

**[04:19:19.390] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Ang tama, yes or no lang po.

**[04:19:21.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, don't, excuse me, don't answer. The question is misleading. This witness is being asked if she adopted the findings. No, Your Honor, this witness just said that there was an implied, that there was an admission by Gina Acosta herself. What findings is she talking about? Your

**[04:19:40.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor, please. I think she's referring to a notice of disallowance of March 31, 2026, where it's stated in the second paragraph that they after evaluation and with due consideration of the evidence given during the CGGPA hearings. I think that's what you're leading to counsel. It's a valid question. Yes,

**[04:20:00.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor. Actually, I was about to quote the findings in the NED. Had the good counsel not stopped me. It's a valid

**[04:20:06.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
question. Because they quoted it themselves in the notice of disallowance.

**[04:20:11.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor. So, ito bang mga findings ninyo with respect to La Chica? Natanong n'yo po ba si La Chica kung totoo heto?

**[04:20:23.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Uy, based lang po sa naging admission under oath ni Ms. Gina Acosta doon sa hearing. Okay.

**[04:20:28.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
How about si Colonel Nolasco? Tinanong n

**[04:20:30.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
'yo ba kung tama yung mga pinagsasabi about sa kanya doon sa hearing ng CGGPA? Uy, based lang po doon sa naging admission

**[04:20:39.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
under oath nung CGGPA hearings po.

**[04:20:41.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Salamat po.

**[04:20:45.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Go back to Joint Circular No. 2015-001. Now, of course, you admitted earlier that this governs the auditing of confidential funds. And it is the audit guideline followed by COA in auditing confidential funds.

**[04:21:03.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, ito yung Joint Circular.

**[04:21:06.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, under the JC, confidential expenses pertain to surveillance activities in civilian government agencies intended to support the mandate or operations of the agency. Nakalagay po ba yan doon?

**[04:21:23.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, under 3.9.

**[04:21:26.050] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The JC also requires liquidation documents of the confidential funds to be submitted to the COA in a sealed envelope. Nakasarado dapat yun.

**[04:21:37.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[04:21:38.610] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. At yung authorized lang na mag-receive doon ay yung State auditor lang na in charge dun sa audit ng confidential funds, tama po?

**[04:21:47.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[04:21:48.820] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang nakalagay po is ICFAO receiving. Okay.

**[04:21:52.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
ICFAO receiving, no? Ihanapin ko po

**[04:21:54.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung exact wording. Sige po.

**[04:21:55.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Okay.

**[04:21:56.120] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Go ahead.

**[04:22:04.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang nakalagay po rito, ICFAO authorized receiving staff.

**[04:22:08.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, authorized receiving staff. Hindi po ba yan yung assigned auditor?

**[04:22:12.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[04:22:13.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Not necessarily, no?

**[04:22:16.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, yung mga documents na yun are only to be examined by the COA-ICV. Under the JC.

**[04:22:24.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, yung mga liquidation documents po na sinasubmit.

**[04:22:27.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And, yung restriction dun sa JC, no, syempre na-explain po ito sa inyo bilang auditor, they are intended to prevent unauthorized disclosure of confidential information. Tama ho?

**[04:22:39.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dapat po ingatan namin din yung laman ng mga dokumento na yun.

**[04:22:43.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. And,

**[04:22:46.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The Joint Circular likewise requires the security officer to safeguard the confidential information from unauthorized disclosure. Nakita niyo ho yan sa JC? Yun po yung nakalagay

**[04:23:01.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
na definition ng security officer.

**[04:23:05.170] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And yet, during the COJ hearing, you transmitted, okay, you transmitted documents to the Committee on Justice. This is requested po through a subpoena po.

**[04:23:21.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay,

**[04:23:22.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
requested through a subpoena, but you know, you admit that you have submitted these documents, no? And the following were submitted to the COJ, Committee on Justice. Letter A, Pakikonfirm na lang po, all submissions of the OVP to the COA concerning the liquidation of the OVP's CF or confidential funds for the fourth quarter of 2022. Tama? Ito po ba yung copy? Oo yan, sige. We are flashing it on screen and we are providing you a copy of that letter. Sige o.

**[04:24:04.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, pakikonfirm na lang po, no? So, yung sinabmit ho dito sa COJ, all the submissions of the OVP to the COA concerning liquidation of the OVP-CF for the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first to third quarter of 2023. Tama, Celine? Okay. Yung next item is all the submissions of the DepEd to the COA concerning the liquidation of the DepEd's CF for the first to third quarter of 2023, tama? Opo, tama. The third item is all the issuances, resolutions, and resolutions of the COA in relation to the liquidation of the OVPs and DepEd's confidential funds, tama?

**[04:24:57.260] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
base po dito sa transmittal. Okay.

**[04:24:59.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
And dilagay pa din ho dun sa transmittal n'yo sa page 5, no? Second to the last paragraph on page 5, the letter states, Considering that the documents pertain to confidential expenses, we respectfully request that appropriate measures be undertaken to protect the confidentiality of the information. Tama? Yes po. Okay.

**[04:25:25.270] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, Under the JC, is the House of Representatives Committee and Justice among the persons authorized to handle the audit of the confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd?

**[04:25:40.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Gaya nga po nang sabi ko, i-requested po ito through ASOG-B na po.

**[04:25:44.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Pakisagot lang po ng tanong ko.

**[04:25:47.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Authorize ho ba sila to handle the audit? I'm referring to the audit itself, no? I'm not referring to the subpoena. Authorize ho ba si House of Representatives Committee on Justice to handle the audit of confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd under the JC?

**[04:26:06.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under the Joint Circular po, responsibility po ng ikfaw na mag-conduct ng post-audit ng liquidation documents ng Confidential Intelligence.

**[04:26:17.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay,

**[04:26:17.810] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
so,

**[04:26:18.210] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
ask and answer, Your Honor. Your Honor, please. Yes,

**[04:26:23.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Kapunan.

**[04:26:24.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The admonition of this honorable presiding officer, Your Honor, is to be patient, Your Honor.

**[04:26:34.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Not admonition, request.

**[04:26:36.780] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, I have been patient. But in line with these continuing questions, first, bringing in the House of Representatives, bringing in this Senate, Your Honor, we

**[04:26:51.710] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
are in

**[04:26:57.080] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
response to, are we auditing? Your Honor, please. If they're making a point that this witness, that the COA witnesses here, Your Honor, are here to testify because they're scared of the budget, for their agency or they're scared of this. Congressman, Your Honor, Your Honor, this is already beyond cross-examine. While this honorable presiding officer has given much leeway, Your Honor, let us confine ourselves to what is precisely the definition of cross-examination is what was taken up during the rep and what may be relevant. What may be relevant, Your Honor, this is beyond relevance, Your

**[04:27:45.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor.

**[04:27:45.340] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
This is already immaterial and irrelevant. If they want to show, if that is their strategy, if that is their defense, Your Honor, present a witness.

**[04:27:57.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's not an objection. Atty. Christine, I think it's more of a manifestation, but the presiding officer would ask you to move forward. I think the senator-judges and the court see your point and where you're going at in relation to this. You can move on to your next point.

**[04:28:13.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Actually, Your Honor, just a quick manifestation. The council is pre-empting my questions. I'm not... I will not be asking questions on the budget, Your Honor. That's not the line of my, the line, or the questions that I will ask, Your Honor.

**[04:28:27.670] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
That's not the point, Your

**[04:28:28.110] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Honor.

**[04:28:28.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can I continue, Your Honor, please?

**[04:28:30.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll kindly wind up with this point, Attorney Christine.

**[04:28:33.750] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so, sa sinabi nyo ho, si Kowa Ikfaw lamang ang may karapatan na mag-audit ng confidential funds of the OVP and the DepEd, tama ho?

**[04:28:43.520] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based on the Joint Circular Point is the responsibility of the ICFAO.

**[04:28:48.280] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, si House of Representatives Committee on Justice cannot review the decisions and actions taken by the COA. Excuse

**[04:28:56.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
me.

**[04:28:56.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Asked and answered, counsel, only COA-ICFAO can do it.

**[04:29:00.180] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
This is another point, Your Honor. The presiding officer has rules.

**[04:29:03.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, please. Councils, please. I would consider it asked and answered. Only COA-ICFAO can and it's quite obvious. We can even take judicial notice of that as part of the law that the House does not have any power nor jurisdiction nor the Senate for that matter to review the findings of an independent Constitutional Commission which under the law she answered to can only be appealed by via petition for certiorari under 45 citing Rule 65 to the Supreme Court. Move on, counsel.

**[04:29:32.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, I will take that as an answer, Your Honor.

**[04:29:34.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes.

**[04:29:34.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
I was about to elaborate but... Okay, I will take that as an answer.

**[04:29:38.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court takes judicial notice and knowledge of that, counsel.

**[04:30:07.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For the Senate president, we shall convene session at 4 p.m. We will try to finish with this witness the cross, redirect, recross if any, and interventions of senator-judges so that we can let Celine rest already and be done with her testimony within today, hopefully. Hopefully. So for the information of the senator-judges, session will be Called at 4 p.m.

**[04:30:36.170] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[04:30:39.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine?

**[04:30:40.600] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, I'm done with the cross-examination.

**[04:30:44.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Attorney Christine.

**[04:30:46.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lorna?

**[04:30:48.180] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
With the permission of this honorable court.

**[04:30:51.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed when you're ready with your redirect counsel.

**[04:30:56.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That we're ending at 4 o'clock does not give you permission to consume the time until 4 o'clock, Attorney Lorna. We still have time for the senator-judges. Please proceed.

**[04:31:10.240] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Excuse me. I'll just remove my candy. Okay. Madam Witness, this morning, four

**[04:31:19.460] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
hours ago, you were asked, Madam Witness, about the process, the routing process in your

**[04:31:28.740] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
office.

**[04:31:29.700] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
And this was done in connection with a question on the chain of custody. on the integrity of the process. Ang tanong sa'yo, naiwanan nga ng mga dokumentong ito relevant to this liquidation of confidential funds sa office of the COA-ICPAO.

**[04:31:55.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[04:31:56.360] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Iniwanan ni Atty. Wamil.

**[04:31:58.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[04:31:59.480] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
And then by virtue of a directive to you by the office, you took over national agencies, correct?

**[04:32:06.900] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po.

**[04:32:07.680] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Among them, the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd.

**[04:32:13.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[04:32:14.600] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
When you took over this function of evaluating the confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President and the DepEd, yung mga dokumentong minana mo, ito ba ay certified documents lahat ng

**[04:32:43.140] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
How are you able to ascertain na yung mga dokumentong iniwanan sa office ng ICFAO are the very same documents na tinurn over sa office ni Atty. Wamil?

**[04:32:59.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nung ibinigay po sa akin ito, at sinek ko din po yung nilalaman nito based dun sa transmittal letters po. So, nacheck ko po na kung ano yung na-audit po ni Mr. Wamil, ito rin po yung naibigay sa akin. So, walang

**[04:33:15.490] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
nadagdag na dokumento?

**[04:33:18.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[04:33:18.980] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Walang binawasan na dokumento?

**[04:33:21.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[04:33:22.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Wala kayong pinalitan, sinubstitute na dokumento?

**[04:33:24.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[04:33:25.720] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
In other words, the integrity? The completeness of all those documents left by Atty. Wamil with the Office of the ICFAO remained complete.

**[04:33:38.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, tama po.

**[04:33:39.550] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Ano naman? Ibag sabihin ng routing kasi counsel here made mention of initials.

**[04:33:48.250] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ano yung mga initials na yun? Yung mga initials po na nasa baba, yung sa AOM po, kung sino po yung action officer, tas sino po yung mga nag-review na division chief hanggang makadating po dun sa aming officer in charge. Kaya yun po yung mga nag-review dun sa AOM na yun. In other words, Madam Witness,

**[04:34:09.810] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
hindi lang ikaw ang nag-decide.

**[04:34:15.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
AOM, ng notice of suspension, at ng notice of disallowance. You are not the only person who decided.

**[04:34:23.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po kasi dumadaan po ito sa review process from the action officer to the division chief to the officer in charge ng ICVAW po. So hindi mo

**[04:34:34.120] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
lang professional judgment to. Your

**[04:34:37.530] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please. The question is leading.

**[04:34:41.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:34:42.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Will allow it. Will allow it. I think that was already answered to by the witness earlier as well.

**[04:34:48.320] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, po. Okay. Ngayon, yung routing slip na yan, dun ba dumadaan ang mga dokumento?

**[04:34:56.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Okay.

**[04:34:57.280] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
At

**[04:34:57.740] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
sa mga taong minention mo, meron bang, nakalagay dyan, meron bang pwedeng idagdag? Sino ang first initial doon? Sino nga ba yung first initial doon?

**[04:35:09.410] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung action officer po, yung RCW, si Roderick po.

**[04:35:13.950] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
yung action officer ba yan? Eh, pwedeng magdagdag, magbawas, magsubstitute ng mga dokumento other than yung sinubmit ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd by way of liquidation ng mga document ng confidential funds?

**[04:35:31.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po. Okay.

**[04:35:32.910] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
So, yung susunod doon, yung action officer, sinong susunod doon? Yung

**[04:35:38.840] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
division chief po. Yung

**[04:35:41.280] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
revision chief na yan, pag binigay ang dokumento at yung evaluation mo at yung action officer, darating naman sa division chief, meron bang nangyayaring misteryo dyan sa mga dokumentong from one, from you, to the action officer, to the reviewer? Your Honor, please. Meron bang dinadagdag, sinasubstitute? or pinapalitan dyan

**[04:36:07.020] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
sa mga

**[04:36:07.960] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
documents na sinasubmit ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd?

**[04:36:14.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel, respondent, what is your objection? Mr. Speaker, Your

**[04:36:16.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor,

**[04:36:16.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
may nangyari bang misteryo dyan?

**[04:36:19.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly reform, counsel.

**[04:36:25.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think we all know where you're headed towards, counsel. Kindly reform. You can get it from the witness.

**[04:36:29.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Sa mga dokumentong sinabmit ng Vice President at DepEd, After it leaves you and goes to the next person, the action officer, and then the reviewing officer, are there other documents that are allowed to be inserted there or substituted other than what was actually submitted by the office of the vice president at ng DepEd para sa liquidation? ng confidential funds.

**[04:37:01.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung mga dokumento lang po na yun, wala na pong nadagdag, walang nababawas. So,

**[04:37:06.300] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
ang tinanong, ang iniimply, sa question ng defense counsel, is a chain of custody. Eh hindi, hindi sila sigurado sa chain of custody. Your Honor, please. Your Honor, please. This is my redirection, Your Honor. She was the one who brought it up and crossed. Let the attorney go

**[04:37:27.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
on and finish, counsel.

**[04:37:30.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
This was brought up on cross, Your Honor, implying, and I'm asking on redirect, based on, they were the ones that brought out, who are these people here?

**[04:37:41.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed to your question, Attorney Capon.

**[04:37:45.100] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Masasabi mo ba na itong chain of custody ay may interruption ng dokumento? Meron bang substitution? Meron bang alteration?

**[04:38:00.850] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Dokumento na sinubmit ng Vice President at ang DepEd.

**[04:38:05.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po kasi yung opisina rin po namin is kami lang po yung nandon and may nakabantay po rito ng security guard 24 hours and yung document po na ito nakalagay po ito sa cabinet na nakalak. So

**[04:38:23.230] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
this COA ICFAO, ang nakakaalam lang ng mga confidential documents ay COA-ICFAO. Meron mga ibang divisions ang COA?

**[04:38:35.310] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nasa loobo kasi kami ng Office of the Chairperson, pero yung sa amin is nakatago po yung mga dokumento namin. Okay.

**[04:38:43.730] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Now, Madam Witness, you were presented with several activities at sabi ng counsel for respondent, i-enumerate niya. Itong specifically, protective intelligence operation and places of engagement. Tinanong sa'yo, pag ba ang mga security guards ng presidente in-inspect,

**[04:39:14.630] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
na

**[04:39:15.520] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
-inspect daw ang routes prior to departure and arrival of the president, of the vice president, I'm sorry, for possible threats for criminal groups? Yung mga security guards ng vice president, ini-inspect yung rota. Dadaan dito ang vice president, office of the vice president, vice president or deputy. Dadaan dito, tignan nga natin kung may komunista dito. Tignan nga natin kung may NPA dito. Tignan nga natin kung may terorista dito. Yan ba ay... Your Honor, please. I haven't finished.

**[04:39:58.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let her finish. Is that

**[04:39:59.730] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
part of... Confidential activity or confidential funds. Your Honor,

**[04:40:06.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please.

**[04:40:06.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel,

**[04:40:08.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
correspondent.

**[04:40:08.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The

**[04:40:08.630] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
good counsel is adding facts to the question. Can she not cite the exact wordings, Your Honor?

**[04:40:14.390] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:40:15.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
This is three direct.

**[04:40:17.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You opened

**[04:40:18.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the door, counsel. She can refer

**[04:40:19.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to the record, Your Honor. Counsel, you opened the door. You said,

**[04:40:23.350] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
in fact, you asked her, is this part of the, Your Honor, please. Is this part of the regular...

**[04:40:29.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, correspondent,

**[04:40:29.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please. You read parts of the PIOR.

**[04:40:39.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But

**[04:40:40.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please, she can just refer to the records.

**[04:40:43.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Which includes NPA, terrorist groups, and in fact mentions the word criminalities, which I'm not so sure about. But criminalities, correct? She

**[04:40:52.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
said that. So

**[04:40:54.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the question is, you mentioned earlier that these are part of confidential functions, not regular functions of the OVP. Correct?

**[04:41:03.560] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
That was the question of counsel for respondent.

**[04:41:09.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Exactly. She responded to that answer. Now, what is your question? My

**[04:41:12.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
question here is, etong office of the Vice President, eh, na-confirm mo na may confidential funds?

**[04:41:23.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, meron po.

**[04:41:24.280] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
But in the Commission on Audit, outside Koa Ikfaw, Are you aware that the office of the vice president has funds outside the confidential funds, her confidential funds?

**[04:41:37.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nasa part na po yun ng regular audit. Ang sa ikfaw lang po is yung sa confidential funds. So

**[04:41:43.190] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
nasa, she has, you're saying that the vice president, OVP, the deputy secretary has funds. Your

**[04:41:50.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please.

**[04:41:52.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Already

**[04:41:52.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
answered, counsel.

**[04:41:53.790] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
She answered. Misleading, Your Honor. She didn't say that, that they have funds. She said she has no knowledge because that is not the scope of

**[04:42:01.910] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
her audit. She said, Your Honor, that

**[04:42:04.510] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
there are funds

**[04:42:05.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
subject of regular audit. Regular funds of the Vice

**[04:42:11.270] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
President herself. And this is subject, Madam Witness, to regular audit. And being subject to regular audit, it is not part of the COA-ICFAO confidential funds audit, correct?

**[04:42:25.740] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Would you know that the office of the Vice President has regular funds or special funds for security personnel? Are

**[04:42:37.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
you aware of that, Madam Witness? Dahil nga po ang sa amin lang is confidential fund, hindi po ako aware dun sa regular funds po ng OBP.

**[04:42:45.630] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Regular

**[04:42:46.190] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
funds, the security personnel, and it is here in your circular. It says salaries for staff. is not part of the allowable expense of confidential funds, correct?

**[04:43:03.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
You mentioned that before. Nasa 4.11 po yung mga hindi dapat magamitan ng CF at IF.

**[04:43:14.690] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Salaries, wages, overtime, additional compensation, allowances, etc. of government, of

**[04:43:26.790] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Salaries, benefits, additional compensation, allowance, or other benefits of officials and employees who are employed by the government in whatever capacity, or elected officials, except when authorized by law. The office of the Vice President, it is of public knowledge that the office of the Vice President has no less than 300 400 security guards. Are you aware of that? Public knowledge.

**[04:43:59.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Narinig ko po sa news.

**[04:44:01.790] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes. And if the security guards are being paid salaries, should these salaries be debited or reimbursed

**[04:44:15.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
from confidential funds? Yung salaries po eh hindi po siya pwedeng i-charge sa confidential funds. Okay. So

**[04:44:22.320] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
itong activity na sinabi na

**[04:44:26.820] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
To

**[04:44:27.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
check. Securities. To check. Surveillance. Surveillance doubt. To surveillance. To make surveillance of the roots of the Vice President when she arrives to an engagement, when she leaves to an engagement, when she attends engagements, Christmas parties. Whatever.

**[04:44:53.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, respondent, yes.

**[04:44:54.920] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please. I haven't finished yet.

**[04:44:57.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[04:44:59.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
And counsel mentioned ocular inspection and casing of venue prior to activity. Now, prior to an activity, should this be part Madam Witness, if this is a function being done by her personal security guards, should this be considered as part of confidential funds activity, Your Honor, this clearing the road?

**[04:45:32.660] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:45:34.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel. The

**[04:45:35.260] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
report does not say that it was done by the security guards, Your Honor. There's nothing in there. I'm asking her now, Your Honor. That's asking for an opinion.

**[04:45:44.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's clarify one thing first. The Vice President has no security guards. She has a VPSG, Vice Presidential Security Group, which was, I think, later on placed under the Presidential Security Command, under the unified command of the Presidential Security Command. Yes, Your Honor,

**[04:46:07.710] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
I will reform.

**[04:46:08.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If it

**[04:46:09.930] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
is the VPSG. that does this activity of coat, ocular inspection, casing of the venue, clearing of routes prior to arrival and departure, would that be reimbursable if they are paid separately from another fund? Can that be part of the liquidation of confidential funds, Madam Witness. Your Honor, please.

**[04:46:48.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel, respondent.

**[04:46:49.860] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The witness is incompetent to answer that because that liquidation report does not state that this work paid to the VP-SPG. If

**[04:46:59.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
she knows, counsel, if she knows. Celine, if you know.

**[04:47:16.500] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Judge, the VP does have a complement and they're called Vice VP SPG. You're aware of that, Madam Witness, and as you said, public knowledge that she has something like 400. My question to you is... And you already confirmed that the VP herself has funds outside these confidential funds. Your

**[04:47:44.940] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please. Yes, Counsel. Ms. Liding, Your Honor, she did not say that she confirmed that there were funds of the VP outside of the confidential funds.

**[04:47:53.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Anyway, Counsel, the Senate passes the budget of all the offices of government and we are well aware that the office of the Vice President has... Other funds. We need not belabor the point on objections from either side. We are aware of the existence of other funds of the Office of the Vice President as well as the DepEd. In fact, the DepEd is the highest budgetary allocation in any GAAP.

**[04:48:19.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please, if I may.

**[04:48:20.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Continue, counsel.

**[04:48:21.380] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Yes, if I may, Your Honor. Counsel keeps objecting to my questions, but she herself was the one who brought it up in the first page. of her own exhibit, it says here, and you asked the question, she asked the question, Mr.

**[04:48:37.900] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Presiding

**[04:48:38.460] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Judge, Your Honor. She says, what does this scope, this report, quote-unquote, you read this, she read this, Mr. Presiding Judge. Move on, counsel. The scope pertains to the narrative of events and accomplishments of the VPSPG.

**[04:48:55.900] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
VPSPG.

**[04:48:58.970] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
in terms of the protective intelligence during the engagement of Vice President Sara Duterte for the first quarter. So, these activities are the activities of the VPSPG.

**[04:49:10.770] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Move on, counsel, yes, the chair already ruled in your favor. So she

**[04:49:13.570] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
can answer, Your Honor? Yes, yes, move forward, counsel. Can you answer that question? If, as stated there, these are activities of the VPSPG.

**[04:49:26.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For the personal engagements of the Vice President, is this a proper matter? Is this proper liquidation of the confidential funds of the Vice President?

**[04:49:39.920] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under the Joint Circular, po,

**[04:49:41.680] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
yung confidential funds should only be used dun sa allowable expenses under an item 4.8 of the Joint Circular, po.

**[04:49:51.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You did not answer the question, Sailene. Yes or no?

**[04:49:56.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pa-clarify ulit yung tanong?

**[04:49:59.820] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Kasama ba sa proper liquidation ang personal engagements ng Vice President at ang bayad or the payment of compensation for the VPSPG for her activities relating to

**[04:50:24.990] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
personal activities of the Vice President.

**[04:50:27.930] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung yung personal activities po, hindi siya chargeable to confidential funds.

**[04:50:32.710] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay.

**[04:50:33.820] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Now, Madam Witness,

**[04:50:35.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
counsel

**[04:50:40.930] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
asked you earlier about the mandate of the COA and you are competent to testify on it. Okay. Correct? Apo.

**[04:50:50.980] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Now,

**[04:50:51.700] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
I will tell you about, I will ask you about the mandate. The mandate of the Vice President. Kasama ba sa mandato ng isang Vice President? And I will read you the Constitution. Performs executive, ceremonial, and social services functions collaborating with stakeholders of organizations in both private and public sectors to develop and promote programs for the uplift of the Filipinos. In your opinion and your professional judgment, kasama ba sa mandato ng isang vice president ang confidential operations?

**[04:51:35.970] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung base po dun sa nakalagay sa mandato nila, hindi po. Hindi po.

**[04:51:42.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Punta rin naman tayo sa DepEd.

**[04:51:48.170] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
DepEd, nakalagay sa batas, is in charge of basic, elementary, and secondary education. That's the function. Kasama ba sa mandato ng isang Secretary of the Department of Education ang confidential activities?

**[04:52:08.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based po dun sa mandato nila, hindi po. Okay. And

**[04:52:13.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
yet, itong Vice President Sara Duterte ay binigyan. Binigyan ng confidential funds. Tama?

**[04:52:26.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, may budget po sila ng confidential fund.

**[04:52:29.850] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Magkano'ng budget? Again, magkano'ng budget ng vice president sa confidential funds?

**[04:52:35.330] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Noong fourth quarter po ng 2022, 125 million. And yung first to fourth quarter ng 23, 500 million po. Pero ang nakuha lang po nila sa 23 is 375 million. And then sa DepEd naman po, 150 million pero ang na-cash advance lang po is 137.7, 112.5 million. Okay.

**[04:53:11.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let us now go to, so tama ka wala sa mandato both ng Office of the Vice President at ng DepEd ang confidential activities. Now let's go to yung sinabi ng counsel for the respondent na quoted from the fires, itong report na sinabmit. Meron siyang sinabing activity.

**[04:53:43.460] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The

**[04:53:44.400] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
activities read, Madam Witness, for the first quarter were

**[04:53:53.070] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
from pertain to January 2. to January 10 of 2023 for the first fire. Okay, first report, January 2 to January 10, 2023. Pero sa pagkaalam natin, and please confirm, on that date, On this period, January 2 to 10, na napakabahaban ng binasa na activities ng counsel for respondent, wala pang confidential funds ang office of the Vice President. During that period, January 2 to 10, and yet, Madam Witness, she is now saying that these activities Well, according to counsel, that these activities for January 2 to 10 cited in this report are by way of liquidation for confidential funds. Paano nangyari yan? Can you explain to us, Madam Witness? How is it possible that a Vice President is claiming liquidation for activities before? February 6, the period for which she was given these confidential funds, January 2 to 10. Did you note this in your report?

**[04:55:22.310] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po siya nakasama sa report kasi yung P.I.O.R. is sinubmit nila to support the payment of rewards po.

**[04:55:29.690] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. Let us now go. But based on this document, the activities cited by counsel were for a period. prior to receipt of the confidential funds that President said, this is in liquidation of the confidential funds I received. Going now to my next point, Madam Witness, allowed ba ito? Parang the activities, Christmas party, tree planting,

**[04:56:08.850] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
What's this? Council meetings, acceptance of awards, rewards, etc. Are these, by nature, are these part of confidential funds activity?

**[04:56:21.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung under the joint circular po, yung allowable lang po na ma-charge sa confidential fund is yung enumeration sa item 4.8 po. At hindi ito enumerated doon. Hindi po nakasama yung nabanggit po ninyong activity. Pero

**[04:56:35.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
napakabait naman ng Presidente. Yung giving of Vice President, giving of medicines, giving of groceries, giving of ayuda.

**[04:56:49.560] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Hindi ba magandang activities yan para sa isang Vice President? Your Honor,

**[04:56:57.340] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
please.

**[04:56:57.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm asking preliminary, Your Honor.

**[04:57:01.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's hear the counsel for respondent. Yes.

**[04:57:04.670] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, that's misleading question. And asking for an opinion. Hindi ba maganda yan sa isang vice president?

**[04:57:13.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sustained. Modify counsel. Your Honor, please. I

**[04:57:17.380] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
will reform, Your Honor. This tree planting, this Christmas funds, this giving of assistance, giving of grocery, grieving of medicines, are these funds

**[04:57:32.680] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
If properly accounted for, could they be gotten from either the president's social services fund or for what you said, there is another audit unit that audits her regular funds. Could the president, if you know, could the vice president have gotten... all of this funding from her regular or social amelioration funds instead of the confidential funds which you said must be strictly complied with.

**[04:58:12.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, respondent?

**[04:58:13.390] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
That calls for an opinion, Your Honor. She should have gotten it from amelioration funds.

**[04:58:18.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's let it continue, Your

**[04:58:19.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor, if she knows, counsel. Celine, if you

**[04:58:21.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
know.

**[04:58:23.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung yung paggagamitan po is yung nabanggit nyo na activity, hindi po siya chargeable sa confidential fund po.

**[04:58:32.430] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Now, Madam Witness, you

**[04:58:36.070] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
said

**[04:58:41.300] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
that you

**[04:58:52.030] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
were

**[04:58:54.500] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
shown

**[04:58:58.850] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
You were asked by counsel for respondent certain activities and she mentioned 4.8.6 which are among the activities that should be covered by confidential funds. To uncover 4.8.6, to uncover and prevent illegal activities that pose a clear and present danger to the agency personnel, property or other facilities under the resources. And using this provision, counsel for respondent wants this provision to justify the expenses of the vice president as listed illegal activity of communist national terrorist. But I will read to you, Madam Witness, the portion that...

**[05:00:02.010] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Intentionally omitted. Because this provision, and please check your circular, could you read the last portion of 4.8.6?

**[05:00:16.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Then in coordination with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. In

**[05:00:21.540] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
other words, Madam Witness, this particular provision says, yes, it is correct. It is proper to use confidential funds to uncover, prevent illegal activities that pose clear and present danger. That is correct, but there is another requirement that counsel intentionally did not read and that is that it must be done in coordination with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. My question to you, Madam Witness, in all the submissions of the Office of the Vice President or the DepEd as regards this uncovering and preventing illegal activities, did any of the submissions of the Vice President indicate Which government agency they coordinated with as regards this uncovering or preventing of illegal activities?

**[05:01:24.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[05:01:25.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel for responding.

**[05:01:26.450] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
The submissions of the President would answer that question, Your Honor. Vice President, Counsel. Vice President, sorry.

**[05:01:33.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It was all submitted to Silene. Let Silene answer. Silene.

**[05:01:40.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Were there any submissions that it

**[05:01:42.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
was

**[05:01:43.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
coordinated with their respective law enforcement agencies?

**[05:01:46.440] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Meron bang sinubmit na dokumento ang Office of the Vice President na, Madam Coa, ito po yung mga government agency na kasama namin na nag-implement nitong surveillance, nag-implement nitong

**[05:02:02.630] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
nag-implement nitong binigay naming information para uncovering and preventing illegal activities. Meron bang listahan o dokumento na sinubmit ng Office of the Vice President or ng DepEd showing precisely the appropriate law enforcement agencies they collaborated with?

**[05:02:24.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa DepEd po, yung sa certification ng AFP to support the payment of rewards, may nakalagay po doon na coordination.

**[05:02:32.060] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Certification lang. Okay. Sa Office of the Vice President.

**[05:02:36.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po, meron po ang nakalagay na doon sa PIORs nila, nakalagay po doon kung kanino sila naki-coordinate po. Meron doon sa PIORs yung details. Sino-sino ang mga

**[05:02:49.000] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
national agencies na to? At more important, ano ang evidence of success? Ano ang connection ng coordination? or pag-cooperate ng OVP or DepEd sa success na sinabi mo na another requirement, an important requirement in the liquidation of confidential funds. Meron bang dokumentos showing the success of this collaboration with the government agencies?

**[05:03:19.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's a

**[05:03:19.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
compounded question, counsel. If I may. Sabi nyo sa DPED, may dokumento nagpapakita may coordination sa AFP. Sa Office of the Vice President, may dokumento ba nagpapakita ng koordinasyon sa law enforcement agencies? Sabi nyo, oo. At kung maalala ko, Seline, local police, di ba?

**[05:03:38.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, nakalagay po dun sa PIORs nila.

**[05:03:41.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now, it's a compound question because now council is asking you, what is the proof of success of these coordinative efforts with law enforcement agencies? May prueba ba ng tagumpay? nung mga operasyon n'yo.

**[05:03:53.860] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun pong sa DepEd po, kinonsider ko po as documents evidencing success yung sa certification ng AFP. Yung sa OBP po, yun po yung hindi na hinanapan ko pa ng additional documentation na nagpapakita ng success.

**[05:04:12.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Particular dun sa portion na nagbayad ng reward.

**[05:04:15.200] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Hindi

**[05:04:16.160] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa impormasyon.

**[05:04:17.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. Tama.

**[05:04:20.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Madam

**[05:04:21.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness, Also, counsel referred you to 6.2.3, which is liquidation of cash advances for confidential funds. At binasa niya isa-isa, nagsubmit ng, ito, liquidation report, nagsubmit naman, certified copy, etc., of disbursement vouchers, evidence of documents, physical financial plan, lahat nang binasa. Dito sa 6.2.3 ay sinabi ng counsel for the respondent ay sinubmit naman. Eh kung compliance, post-audit compliance ang COA-ICPAO.

**[05:05:03.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kung

**[05:05:04.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sinubmit naman itong mga dokumento, bakit meron pa rin AOM? Bakit may AOM leading to notice of suspension, leading to notice of disallowance if in fact As counsel for respondent suggests, hey, kumpleto naman kami ng submissions.

**[05:05:27.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based on the evaluation of each document po, may mga nakita po doon na hindi compliant with the Joint Circular po. And kagaya ng, ano, just very briefly. Yun po, gaya yung sa... OBP po yung payment of rewards which were not supported with documents evidencing success and yung mga purchases po na hinahingan ko ng other documents that deemed necessary in the audit po. And meron nga din po dun sa ND ng 2023 na reimbursement which is hindi rin po siya compliant with the Joint Circular.

**[05:06:03.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So,

**[05:06:03.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
yung

**[05:06:04.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sinasabi na mali kayo, sinabi nyo non-compliant, eh, kumpleto naman ang checklist. Hindi tama yun ang sinasabi mo, Madam Witness.

**[05:06:15.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Meron pong nasabik na dokumento pero after the evaluation of each document po, hindi pa rin po siya compliant with the Joint Circular.

**[05:06:24.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's go now to the last 6.2.3 na again, hindi na namang kinote ng 6.2.3.7 refers to other supporting documents the ICVAW deems necessary for the proper evaluation of liquidation documents submitted. What does this mean, other liquidation documents? Ang iniimply ng Office of the Vice President at DepEd Councils na Kasi sinabi n'yo, limited to the documents. Are you constrained? Kayo ba ay bawal tumingin o humingi pa ng iba pang dokumento para patunayan ang tinatawag na supporting documents na inaakalan n'yo yung kailangan or necessary para sa proper evaluation ng liquidation documents submitted.

**[05:07:25.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede po kami humingi ng additional documents na makakatulong sa amin sa pag-evaluate po ng liquidation ng confidential.

**[05:07:32.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kagaya ng ano? Ano itong other

**[05:07:34.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
supporting documents?

**[05:07:35.860] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Gaya nga po yung hiningi ko dun sa purchase of supplies and provision of medical and food aid. Yun pong receipts and sales invoice po to ascertain na talagang pinambili ito ng supplies and food and medical aid. At

**[05:07:50.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sinabihan n'yo sila, noong humingi kayo ng other supporting documents, mga ORs, mga sales invoice, nagsubmit ba ang OVP at ang DepEd nang hinihingi n'yong other documents deemed necessary for the proper evaluation of the liquidation documents submitted? Nagsubmit ba sila?

**[05:08:13.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Part po ito nung notice of disallowance na nandod pa sila sa period prescribed po para mag-appeal sa commission proper.

**[05:08:22.930] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Itong ano, itong ngayon, sinabi mo, you were confronted with your tabulation and your summaries na wala naman nakalagay na pangalan doon. Ang nakalagay lang doon, dates tsaka amounts.

**[05:08:41.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:08:42.420] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Correct?

**[05:08:43.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:08:44.730] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay. And in particular, merong pinakita sa'yo, as part of your summary, merong mga acknowledgement receipts doon na ang date ay iisa lang.

**[05:08:56.990] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:08:57.590] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
And but disbursed, disbursed in one day. Nakalaga yun? Disbursed in one day? Tama?

**[05:09:05.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung kahapon po, opo. Okay. Ngayon.

**[05:09:09.530] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
In your joint circular, Kasi pinag-usap, in relation to that, pinag-usapan rin, Atty. Wamil, and now you confirm, pinag-usapan rin ang observation na mahina, mahina ang internal controls ng Office of the VP at ng DepEd. And patunayan dyan, eh, meron disbursement officer allegedly nag-disburse ng several amounts in several places. Na-mention, in fact, Sinabi ko Superman, pero sabi ng Presiding Officer, physical impossibility na lang ang gamitin niya. The physical impossibility of an authorized special disbursement officer to distribute all of these funds in one day, based on your opinion, professional opinion, does this indicate what they refer to as lapse of internal controls?

**[05:10:26.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, kasi under the Joint Circular, it's the responsibility ng head of agency to institute sound and effective internal control.

**[05:10:36.240] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
And when the head of agency, in this instance, the Vice President, says to the SDO, to ilagan. Pag sinabi ng Vice President or DepEd, who is the head of agency? Ikaw, special disbursement officer. Huwag ikaw ang mag-disburse. Ibigay mo yan sa security guard, sa security personnel. Ibigay mo yan pag disburse. Huwag na ikaw. Ibigay mo sa security personnel knowing. or she ought to know, she knows or ought to know as head of agency and as a lawyer, knows or ought to know that the person expressly authorized by law is the only person authorized to disburse public funds. Tama ba yan? Is that an indication of tight internal controls?

**[05:11:38.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[05:11:40.770] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Going now to...

**[05:12:04.010] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
As I mentioned earlier, pinakitahan ka ng counsel for the respondent ng mga payors, documents, listing activities prior to the receipt of the confidential funds. Okay. What now would your assessment, what would COA's assessment be under the Joint Circular?

**[05:12:34.570] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
What will your assessment be? Allowed ba ito?

**[05:12:37.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under po kasi sa joint circular, kung itong expenses is before the cash advance, ito'y reimbursement, which is a violation po ng item 6.1.

**[05:12:56.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under po sa Joint Circular, yung sa 6.1.2, sabi po dito, in no case shall cash advance for CFN or IF be utilized as reimbursement of the expenses prior to the granting of the cash advance.

**[05:13:10.340] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Okay.

**[05:13:10.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
So, these are disallowed expenses. And

**[05:13:14.060] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
yet, knowing, knowing that hindi naman covered ito ng kinash advance nila na confidential funds, sinubmit. pala nila. Ano yan? Palagay ko. Ano yan?

**[05:13:31.260] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Palusot ba yan? They're trying to get reimbursement or trying to use activities not covered by the specific period to justify the liquidation of confidential funds.

**[05:13:47.100] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Conclusion of fact, Your Honor, palusot ba yan?

**[05:13:50.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That

**[05:13:50.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
is my...

**[05:13:54.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Councils, please. We're like on both sides. I think most of the questions being asked have already been answered by the witness repeatedly.

**[05:14:07.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly move to your next point, Atty. Gaponan, if you have other points for redirect. so that we can wind up also with every cross and proceed to interjection so that we can finish with this witness. We're going around repeatedly already on the same conclusions of the witness based on her findings. Kindly move on, counsel, please.

**[05:14:29.870] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Your Honor, please, as I said earlier, the start of this impeachment, one of the rules of cross-examination and direct examination or redirect is to know when to stop. This is where I stop, Your Honor. Thank you. Thank

**[05:14:42.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you very much, counsel.

**[05:14:44.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Council for the Respondent, Rick Ross. Okay,

**[05:14:47.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Rick Ross. Seline, kanina tinanong ka about the VPSPG, receiving rewards from the OVP. kung ito nga ba ay nangyayari at kung bawal ito under the JC. And sinabi mo na bawal ho yan, di ba? Sabi mo kanina. Okay, may finding ba kayo sa notices of these allowances n'yo, both first and second notices, na yung VPSPG ay nagre-receive ng payments for reward and purchase of information from the confidential funds of the Office of the Vice President? May findings

**[05:15:30.030] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
mo na ganun? Under the Joint Circular nga po, tama na. Yung payment of rewards hindi.

**[05:15:34.760] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Please,

**[05:15:35.000] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please. Kindly answer the question again. The question is simple.

**[05:15:38.520] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po. Wala.

**[05:15:39.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
How about sa DepEd? May findings ba kayo na yung VPSPG tumatanggap ng rewards and payment for purchase of information from the confidential funds of the DepEd?

**[05:15:52.200] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala din po.

**[05:15:53.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. So, kanina, tinanong ka about sa mandate ng OVP at DepEd, no? At tinanong din na ating Good Counsel kung ito bang si OVP under its mandate, allowed ba itong mag-receive ng confidential funds to which you said mukhang hindi ho. Noong 2022, the fourth quarter of 2022, Alam mo ba ninyo na in-approve ng Office of the President ang confidential funds ng OVP?

**[05:16:28.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based po sa mga documents na nasubmit sa amin, meron pong approval. Noong 2023,

**[05:16:35.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
nasa General Appropriations Act po yung confidential funds ng OVP. Tama po? Based

**[05:16:43.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po

**[05:16:43.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
sa

**[05:16:43.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
mga submissions sa amin, nasa GAAP po.

**[05:16:46.210] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. In short, ito po ay in-approve ng ating Congress, yung GAA. Tama po?

**[05:16:54.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:16:55.520] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay. Does the JC prohibit the Office of the Vice President from receiving confidential funds?

**[05:17:03.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nakalagay po sa JC yung mga agencies na may...

**[05:17:07.800] Atty. Lorna Patajo-Kapunan**  
Just answer my question, Direk. Simple lang naman ho. May prohibisyon ho ba sa JC on the Office of the Vice President receiving confidential funds?

**[05:17:19.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po. Wala.

**[05:17:20.160] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
About the Department of Education, may pinagbabawal ba yung JC na makareceive ito ng confidential funds yung DepEd?

**[05:17:27.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Based sa JC po, wala po.

**[05:17:29.440] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[05:17:31.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay.

**[05:17:35.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, tinanong ko kayo kanina about the OVP or the SDO, in that regard, disbursing monies in one day. in several places. Sinabi ko, isang araw, madaming mga pinag-gastusan, isang date lang yun, iba-ibang lugar. May findings po ba nito sa first ending ninyo? Wala po kasi we presume

**[05:18:06.800] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
regularity po doon sa transaction po.

**[05:18:09.100] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay,

**[05:18:09.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
thank you. How about sa second ending po ninyo? May findings po ba nito? Dahil nga po nag-base kami sa certification under oath ng SDO, wala po. Okay.

**[05:18:20.060] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so...

**[05:18:21.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[05:18:22.770] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, Your Honor, I'm done, Your Honor. Thank you,

**[05:18:26.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel. We now move. Hopefully, we can finish with Cylene today. Cylene, with your patience and indulgence. Senator Padilla. Is he here? Not here? Senator Ontiveros, then, for her interjections.

**[05:18:45.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the kind indulgence of Senator Ontiveros, Senator Padilla just arrived. Senator Padilla. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. You may proceed when you're ready. Maraming salamat po, ginong Tagapamahal ng Hukom.

**[05:18:59.590] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Sa ating saksi, kayo po ay taga-Bagyo?

**[05:19:06.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[05:19:07.590] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Saan po kayo sa Bagyo?

**[05:19:10.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Irizan po.

**[05:19:11.380] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Irizan. Opo. Ako po ay taga-Bagyo din. Saan po kayo nag-graduate? Sa St.

**[05:19:16.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Louis University po.

**[05:19:18.200] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ay, alumnus po ako niyan. Sa Boys High po ako. Dahil po dyan, hindi ko nalang po kayo pahihirapan. Tayo nalang po ay maging magkababayan nalang sa Baguio. Gusto ko lamang pong magbigay ng informasyon nalang sa inyo. Opo kasi naririnig ko yung pag-uusap nyo ng prosecution at ng defense tungkol doon sa success nung confidential fund. Ako po ay may mga ibibigay na information sa inyo.

**[05:19:53.430] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
pwede po kayong magsabi na lang ng oo o hindi kung naiintindihan po ninyo. Alam ko naman naiintindihan mo, taga Baguio kayo. Opo, noon pong pinag-uusapan natin yung

**[05:20:05.980] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
patungkol sa mga terorista na pag-uusapan po lagi ang ating vicepresidente. Ang ating pong vicepresidente, magmula 2016 hanggang 2022, siya po ay naging mayor. Alam niyo po ba iyon?

**[05:20:26.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, Mayor ng Davao.

**[05:20:28.040] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Yan, opo. Sa Davao po, meron po dyan na-identify na 55 na mga tinatawag na alternative at yung mga lumad schools na infiltrated ng terrorism. Nabalitaan nyo po ba yun?

**[05:20:49.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po ako gaano na, hindi ko po gaano na napakinggan po yun. Hindi po ako aware doon.

**[05:20:55.710] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Opo. At alam niyo po ba rin na noong 2016 hanggang 2022 hanggang 2023, 12% po ng mga NPA rebels, surrenderees, were minors, 12 to 17 years old.

**[05:21:20.480] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po ako aware dun po.

**[05:21:23.160] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Maubos na po yung aking second round na lang po ako. Salamat kabayan.

**[05:21:27.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Ontiveros is recognized for her interjections. You have two minutes, ma'am. You may proceed.

**[05:21:42.250] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Ms. Witness, Ms. Silene, kahit pa po walang confidential at intelligence funds ang OVP, may budget naman po ang VPSG para sa security ng lahat ng vicepresidente, di po ba?

**[05:22:02.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Under po sila ng AFP. Under

**[05:22:08.930] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
ng AFP. Ngayon, tatlong taon na pong walang intelligence and confidential funds ang OVP. Kung alam nyo, may VPSG pa naman pong naka-assign sa kanila para bantayan yung kanyang siguridad, diba?

**[05:22:27.620] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa pagkakaalam ko po, nabanggit po kanina ni presiding officer na punta siya sa PSC, Presidential Security Command po.

**[05:22:38.220] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay.

**[05:22:39.900] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Ngayon,

**[05:22:40.820] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
iyong mga activities na nandoon sa mga Protective Intelligence Operations Reports na pinakita kanina, may binigay bang mga ebidensya ang OVP? para patunayan na ginastusan nga po nila ang bawat isa nun.

**[05:22:59.100] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po kasi in-attach lang po nila yun as proof of success of information gathering and surveillance activities.

**[05:23:07.310] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay.

**[05:23:09.900] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Na ayon sa inyo kanina ay hindi pa sasapat dun sa hinahanap n'yong mga proofs of success dun sa intelligence gathering activities na iyon.

**[05:23:19.520] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Okay.

**[05:23:23.400] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Ngayon, sa iba namang mga acknowledgement receipts, may nakalagay na purchase of medical and food aid at dati naman medicines. May resibo po ba silang ibinigay para ipakita na talagang ang binayaran o ang binili ay yung mga gamot o yung mga pagkain na iyan?

**[05:23:43.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po silang inattach na any receipts po or sales invoice. Acknowledgement receipts po.

**[05:23:49.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kahit sales invoice, wala. Acknowledgement receipts lamang. Opo.

**[05:23:53.090] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
So, walang ebidensya na talagang ang pinagkagastusan ay yung mga gamot at yung mga pagkain na yun.

**[05:24:00.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo kasi based lang doon sa acknowledgement receipts po yung sinubmit nila.

**[05:24:05.050] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Na ayon sa COA ay hindi sapat na ebidensya kung mga ARs lamang.

**[05:24:10.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, hindi po kasi namin ma-ascertain kung talagang pinambili ito ng supplies, medicines, and food po.

**[05:24:16.960] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Kailangan nyo resibo o invoices para ma-assertin masiguro na yun talaga yung pinagkagastusan.

**[05:24:23.340] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:24:24.580] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay. Ngayon po, Ms. Aileen, dati po, tinawag ng land bank managers na unusual yung pag-encash ng milyong-milyong pisong, daang-milyong, daan-daang-milyong piso ng OVP at saka ng DepEd sa tigi-isang araw. Sa audit po ninyo, Meron po ba kayong nakitang illegal, improper, o irregular sa paggamit at sa pag-liquidate ng perang iyan?

**[05:24:55.900] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Irregular po yung paggamit nila kasi po hindi po ito compliant with the Joint Circular. So

**[05:25:01.200] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
just to close on this, Mr. Presiding Officer, to wind up, irregular dahil...

**[05:25:06.760] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
hindi po naging compliant.

**[05:25:08.160] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Paano hindi

**[05:25:08.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
naging compliant? Dahil po ngayon sa payment of rewards, we're not supported with documents evidencing success. And yun nga po, hindi nila na-provide yung additional

**[05:25:20.470] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
documents necessary para ma-ascertain yung purchase of supplies and medical and food aid. At saka po, meron din kaming naging findings sa reimbursement po. Okay.

**[05:25:31.710] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
I-follow up ko itong tanong at pati yung punto ng reimbursement sa second round. Salamat, Ms. Aileen. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[05:25:38.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge Villanueva, you have two

**[05:25:43.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
minutes. You may proceed when you're ready. Unless Senator-Judge Lapid is ready.

**[05:25:50.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge Villanueva, well, I will give way

**[05:25:55.160] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
to Senator Lapid. Mr. President, thank you.

**[05:26:00.900] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Ms. Del Campo, sabi niyo po yung COA conducted compliance audit at sa evaluation niyo ng OVP's confidential expenses. Which matters po? Did COA treat as questions of compliance with the Joint Circular? And which matters? Did COA recognize as falling within the operational judgment of the implementing agency?

**[05:26:26.330] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Clarify po yung question.

**[05:26:28.180] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Which matters po doon sa pag-conduct ng COA, treating it as questions of compliance with the Joint Circular? And which matters doon po sa paggawa ng COA, recognizing it as falling within the operational judgment ng Office of the Vice President?

**[05:26:52.530] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung pag-evaluate po namin ng mga liquidation documents, binibase po namin yun sa Joint Circular. Yung sa Office of the Vice President po, yung pag-liquidate po dapat nila, it is based po dapat sa Joint, should be compliant with the Joint Circular.

**[05:27:12.610] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Dapat pareho lang. So when COVID disagreed? na yung OVP's characterization that an activity was confidential, necessary, and successfully accomplished, what specific standards po yung ina-apply n'yo?

**[05:27:26.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
The Joint Circular po ang basis ng aming audit.

**[05:27:29.290] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Wala na pong ibang separate COA guidelines?

**[05:27:33.090] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ginagamit din po namin yung Rules and Regulations on Settlement of Accounts. I'm

**[05:27:37.010] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
sorry?

**[05:27:37.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
The Rules and Regulations on Settlement of Accounts. And

**[05:27:41.330] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
ito po, same standards applied consistently to all. The transactions reviewed.

**[05:27:46.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:27:48.020] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Salamat po. Kapag nag-issue po ang COA ng Notice of Disallowance, maaari pa po bang itong ma-cure simply by correcting, replacing, or subsequently submitting supporting documents?

**[05:27:59.620] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa Notice of Disallowance po, appeal po sa commission proper ang remedy po ng isang agency. So kailangan

**[05:28:06.480] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
kang dumaan, provided ng COA rules, para ma-lift o ma-reverse yung ND. Is that correct? Can you explain the process?

**[05:28:13.640] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pag nag-issue po kasi si ICFAO ng Notice of Disallowance, may demand na po to restitute the amount. Pero may remedy pa din po yung agency na mag-appeal po sa commission proper. Commission

**[05:28:25.900] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
proper o co-director?

**[05:28:27.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Commission, yung sa case po ng ICFAO, diretso na po sa commission proper ang appeal.

**[05:28:34.670] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Tapos, puwedeng mag-MR?

**[05:28:36.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung magkakaroon po ng decision, kaya nga po nang nangyari sa fourth quarter 2022 na meron silang, yung decision is na-affirm yung ND, opo, meron pa pong remedy na MR. Tapos

**[05:28:49.150] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
pwedeng mag-judicial review?

**[05:28:51.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pag-petition for certiorari po.

**[05:28:55.550] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Okay. So, yung

**[05:29:00.380] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
pong pag-correct o pag-submit ng additional document ay hindi by itself equivalent sa legal lifting o reversal ng ND.

**[05:29:08.220] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Depende po yan sa evaluation na po ng sa Commission proper.

**[05:29:10.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kailangan action

**[05:29:11.120] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
lang ng proper, Koa. Malinaw po yan. Last na po. Para malinaw po sa atin lahat, kung ang isang agency ay nag-classify ng isang activity as confidential, bound po ba ang Koa sa classification na ito o bilang constitutional audit body? Hindi po.

**[05:29:28.800] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa confidentiality po, pag naipasa naman po sa amin, iniingatan din po namin yung mga documents na nasasubmit sa amin. And what we do po is yung kung tama ba yung paggamit ng confidential funds na ibinigay po sa isang ahensya.

**[05:29:45.220] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Ulitin ko po yung tanong, ulitin ko po yung tanong. Hindi kayo bound. Hindi kayo bound na ang isang ahensya dineclare confidential funds ito. Hindi kayo bound dahil as a constitutional body, meron po kayong independent evaluation. As commission on audit para yung malaman kung isang activity at expenditure ay talagang confidential in nature at pasok ito sa definition at allowable uses under the Joint Circular.

**[05:30:14.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po kasi itong confidential fund is pondo po ng bayad na kailangan ma-audit at magkaroon ng proper maging ano tawag dito, ma-check kung ito ay nagamit ba sa tama po.

**[05:30:27.760] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Again, hindi kayo bound. Pag dineclare ng isang ahensya, ito confidential funds, hindi kayo bound.

**[05:30:34.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po, kasi nga kailangan i-liquidate pa din po properly. Tama

**[05:30:38.080] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
po yun, and I support that sa Constitution, Article 9D, Section 2, 1 and 2, COA has the power and duty to examine, audit, and settle accounts involving government funds and the exclusive authority, kayo ho, yung may exclusive authority to define the scope of your audit. Is that correct?

**[05:31:00.580] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:31:01.440] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
So, ibig sabihin ang polisiya po ninyo hindi po sapat na tawaging confidential ng isang ahensya ang isang activity subject pa rin po ito sa independent audit determination ng Commission on Audit. Is that correct?

**[05:31:16.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, tama po. Dahil nga po ito ay pondo ng bayan at kailangan po na ma-audit ito ng takot.

**[05:31:22.680] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
At nung ginawa po nyo ito, ilang beses po silang nabigyan ng pagkakataon para sumagot?

**[05:31:28.020] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa fourth quarter 22, dumaan po ito ng AOM, naging NS, naging ND. Yung sa 2023 naman po, AOM, tapos naging ND dahil nga po may direct violation of the joint circular.

**[05:31:42.740] Sen. Manuel “Lito” M. Lapid**  
Salamat po sa pagklaro ng proseso. Salamat. Senator

**[05:31:46.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
-Judge Pangilinan, you may proceed with your interjection when you're ready. You have two minutes, sir.

**[05:31:53.300] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Thank you. Magandang hapon.

**[05:31:57.020] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Sa usapin noong December 21 to December 31, 2022, na ginastos yung 125 million. Pag hindi naubos yung 125 million by December 31, anong mangyayari sa pondo?

**[05:32:12.700] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Babalik po yun sa National Treasury.

**[05:32:15.420] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So ibig sabihin, hindi may babalik sa savings ng OVP? Babalik sa National Treasury?

**[05:32:24.400] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Apo. I'm

**[05:32:25.440] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
trying to understand bakit. Diba? Ang ikli nung panahon, which you mentioned, maikli yung 11 days, but wala kayong finding, no? Ngayon, kung halimbawa nagsumiti sila ng mga dokumento para mapatunayan na tama lahat mong ginastos nung 21 to 31, di walang issue, hindi ba? Kung nasummit nila yung mga hinihiling ninyong additional documents.

**[05:32:51.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes, po.

**[05:32:52.850] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay. Pero dahil hindi nila sinumiti, Hindi n'yo alam kung tama nga ba yung gastos noong December 21 to December 31. Tama?

**[05:33:04.830] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, dahil hindi po nila na-explain mabuti.

**[05:33:07.530] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay. Of course, hindi n'yo malalaman kung iligal o irregular, pero hindi n'yo rin malalaman kung legal o regular.

**[05:33:18.010] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po siya magpa-fall sa irregular kasi nga po hindi siya compliant with the Joint

**[05:33:22.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Circular. Okay.

**[05:33:23.550] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Hindi n'yo malalaman... kung napunta sa personal use o hindi. Tama? That's why you're asking for more documents.

**[05:33:32.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Oo po. Tama po.

**[05:33:33.930] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay, okay.

**[05:33:36.770] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So, kaya siguro, well, so kung hindi niya nagastos, babalik.

**[05:33:43.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Oo po, sa national treasure.

**[05:33:44.840] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
At hindi niya maaaring gastusin sa January.

**[05:33:47.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi na po.

**[05:33:48.260] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Hindi rin niya maaaring gastusin before December 21.

**[05:33:52.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po kasi bawal po ang reimbursement.

**[05:33:54.660] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So talagang doon mo lang magagasos?

**[05:33:56.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, doon sa nakalagay na period of utilization of the cash advance.

**[05:34:00.980] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Which could be valid, dahil yun nga lang ang panahon, or invalid. Dangan nga lang, kaya kayo humihingi ng dagdag na dokumento para malaman natin kung valid ba o hindi.

**[05:34:12.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:34:14.020] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay. Yung usapin ng protective...

**[05:34:24.340] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
intelligence operations.

**[05:34:29.190] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Dati wala namang confidential funds ang OVP, tama?

**[05:34:33.630] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, magmula na nag-start po ako sa ICVAO.

**[05:34:36.290] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Pero dati meron ng protective services ang OVP.

**[05:34:40.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa pagkakaalam ko po, yung under the PSG po ata sila.

**[05:34:45.170] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So yung gastos para sa security, dati sa PSG.

**[05:34:52.780] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Pero dito lumalabas yung casing, security, appointment ay ginastos o ginamit yung confidential funds. Tama ba yun?

**[05:35:01.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:35:03.600] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Next

**[05:35:04.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
round na lang po. Thank you, Senator-Judge Pangilinan. Senator-Judge Aquino may proceed with his interjection when he's ready. You have 10 minutes, sir.

**[05:35:16.120] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Maraming salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang araw po.

**[05:35:18.820] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Good afternoon po.

**[05:35:21.790] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Sa inyo pong determinasyon sa inyong opisina, meron pong mga disallowances, no? Tungkol po sa kategorya ng mga gastos, kung sino po yung nag-disperse. Pero hindi po naging rason ng disallowance yung mga kakaibang pangalan. Tama po ba?

**[05:35:37.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Pero

**[05:35:39.550] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
nakita po ninyo na may mga pangalan na kakaiba. May peyatos, may bacon. Hart, Queso, at kung ano-ano, hindi nyo po naisip na baka red flag po ito?

**[05:35:53.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dahil nga po ang audit namin is compliance lang po, hindi na po namin binerify yung identity nung nakatanggap po.

**[05:36:00.100] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Pero nung, hindi nyo binerify, pero nung nakikita ninyo, o nung nakikita mo, hindi mo ba naisip na posibleng red flag itong mga pangalan to?

**[05:36:09.600] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
We presume po kasi regularity kasi po merong certification under oath yung SDO. This was used for the confidential operations of the agency. And these are necessary and for legal purpose po yung naging paggastos ng confidential fund.

**[05:36:27.420] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So nag-consult na kasi yung iba naming abogado kay former Commissioner Heidi Mendoza. At sabi niya, kapag may mga kakaibang pangalan, The COA can trigger an investigation because of fraud. So hindi nyo po ginawa yun, walang usapin ng investigation because of fraud.

**[05:36:44.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa fraud audit po kasi, pinag-aaral, yung possibility po, pinag-aaral pa kasi kung magpo-fraud audit po, this is the first time. And yung documents po, yung transactions involving the OBP and DepEd po, contains voluminous documents na with sensitive information na pag naibigay po sa ibang opisina, baka po magiging exposed siya.

**[05:37:09.160] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So, ulitin ko ha. So, hindi kayo nag-trigger ng investigation of fraud? Or nag-trigger kayo?

**[05:37:15.380] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pa po. Pinag-aaralan pa po with the chairperson.

**[05:37:18.740] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Ah, pinag-aaralan. So, it's possible na magkaroon pa ng investigation due to fraud?

**[05:37:24.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ah, pinag-aaralan pa lang po. At kung kinakailangan po, pwede pong... mag-fraud audit po.

**[05:37:33.250] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Let me ask about what is fraud, no? Ano yung fraudulent? Yung paggamit ba ng alias ay fraudulent?

**[05:37:41.780] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Ito ba

**[05:37:42.260] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
'y bawal or iligal?

**[05:37:43.600] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po sa joint circular, silent po kasi ang joint circular as to the use of alias po. Pero ang binabantayan po dito is dapat na ibigay po ito sa totoong tao at nagamit sa tamang confidential expenses po. Okay.

**[05:37:57.940] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So thank you, thank you for that. So... Kung nagamit to sa talagang nakalagay doon, hindi ito fraudulent. Pero kung ito'y hindi naman nagamit doon sa nakalagay at kunyari na bulsa lang, fraudulent yun, correct? Opo, tama. So yung bawat isang pangalan, dapat ba merong ring 1 is to 1 na totoong tao sa likod nun? O pwede kunyari may alokasyon ng 10 million tapos hinati-hati sa tagti 300,000 pero isang tao lang talaga yun, yun po ba fraudulent?

**[05:38:29.770] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang kuhaan ko po doon is isang tao lang yung nakatanggap based doon sa acknowledgement receipt po na yun.

**[05:38:35.010] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So sa inyo pong professional opinion, kailangan po yung bawat AR ay may katumbas na totoong tao kung yun man ang kanyang pangalan o meron siyang totoong pangalan. At yung nakalagay doon sa report na activity, yun dapat talaga yung nagawa. Tama po ba?

**[05:38:56.750] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:38:58.050] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Are you aware, Madam Witness, na meron tayong batas na nagbabawal ng paggamit ng alias?

**[05:39:06.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po ako familiar dun sa law. Okay.

**[05:39:09.100] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
There is a law actually, RA 6085. na nagbabawal ng paggamit ng alias at nais namin alamin kung ito ba'y pertinent dito sa usapin ng confidential and intelligence funds at aalamin po namin yan. Maybe for the second round. Maraming salamat, Madam Witness.

**[05:39:26.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo, you may proceed with your interjections. You have two minutes, sir.

**[05:39:40.680] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Magandang hapon po, Ginang Witness.

**[05:39:44.080] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Para po sa

**[05:39:44.960] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
kalaman ng mga kababayan natin, pag sinabi ng COA, disallowance, ano pong ibig sabihin po nito?

**[05:39:51.370] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa disallowance po, ibig sabihin hindi ito ipinayagan sa audit po. So sa IGFAO po, pag nag-issue na kami ng disallowance, may demand na po na ibalik yung pondo ng bayan.

**[05:40:01.930] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay, na ibalik ang pondo. Sumagot naman po sila ang OVP noong nag-issue kayong disallowance. Sumagot ba yung mga kakulangan na dokumento na ibigay ba nila?

**[05:40:12.270] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang naging remedy po nila is mag-appeal po sa commission proper.

**[05:40:16.550] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ano po nangyari doon sa commission proper?

**[05:40:19.240] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa 2022 transaction po, nagkaroon po ng decision ng commission proper at inaffirm po nila yung notice of disallowance.

**[05:40:26.700] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Okay, so na sinabi nyo kailangan ibalik po yung pondo, tama po ba?

**[05:40:33.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:40:34.690] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Naibalik po ba?

**[05:40:36.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po kasi ang remedy pa po nila, nasa, pwede po po silang mag-remedy, may remedy pa po sila na mag-appeal. So yun po. Tapos ang nangyari dun sa 2022, may decision, meron po silang final na motion for reconsideration na pending resolution po. Sa

**[05:40:53.900] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
COA po ba o sa SC?

**[05:40:55.780] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa Commission Proper pa din po. Commission

**[05:40:58.340] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Proper. So yun po, nakalabas na po ba ng desisyon ng Commission Proper?

**[05:41:02.590] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
May pending MR pa po sila. May

**[05:41:04.870] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
pending. Magkano po yung total na inaantay natin na ibalik ng OVP at DepEd?

**[05:41:11.910] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa OVP po, 73,287,000 yung fourth quarter. Yun po palang sa 2023, na-issue po kasi namin yung ND is March 31, 2026. Within the prescribed period pa po sila ng 180 days to appeal po sa commission proper.

**[05:41:29.950] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Kaya nga po, ang tanong natin, bukod sa OVP, meron din po tayo pinag-uusapan sa DepEd, di po ba? Magkano po itong total kung alam ho ninyo ang kailangang ibalik, ang inaantay ninyo?

**[05:41:42.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa DepEd po kasi, may na-issue kami na credit notice dun sa First and second quarter. Tapos yung sa third quarter po, under review and evaluation pa po.

**[05:41:53.250] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Kaya nga po, magkano? Yung

**[05:41:55.250] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
sa DepEd po is 112.5 million. From

**[05:41:58.650] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
2022 to 2023 po yun?

**[05:42:01.130] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po silang budget for 22. First to third quarters po ng 23 yung sa DepEd. 112.

**[05:42:06.310] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Sa DepEd po, magkano inaantay nyo?

**[05:42:08.710] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po yung 112.5 million. Sa

**[05:42:10.950] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
OVP po?

**[05:42:11.810] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Sa OVP po is...

**[05:42:15.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
375 plus 73.287 million po.

**[05:42:20.680] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
So, magkano pong total lahat?

**[05:42:24.550] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Mga, hindi

**[05:42:28.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
ko naman, mga 4 million, ay 400 plus. Okay,

**[05:42:33.370] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
so yun ang inaantay po ninyo?

**[05:42:35.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa OVP po, opo. So,

**[05:42:37.010] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
hanggang ngayon inaantay po ninyo?

**[05:42:38.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi may mga remedies pa po sila na. Okay,

**[05:42:42.150] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
alright. Maraming salamat po, yun lang po.

**[05:42:45.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge, I heard you too. You may proceed with your interjections.

**[05:42:50.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed with your interjections.

**[05:42:56.050] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Yes, magandang hapon. Good

**[05:42:57.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
afternoon po.

**[05:43:00.770] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sige, first question lang, no? Is it allowed for disbursement to be validly spent and still be disallowed by COA, no? Yung disbursement, sorry, disbursement to be validly spent and still be disallowed by COA for want of documentation. Yung kumbaga, possibly ba na nag-gastos naman ng tama ang pondo, pero... Disallowed pa rin ito ng COA dahil kulang ang mga dokumentong nagpapatibay ng pagkakagastos. Opo. So, possible pala yan.

**[05:43:33.100] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Halimbawa, nawala ang resibo, gano'n, kaya hindi maipasala ng COA, ibig sabihin, automatic na disallowed na

**[05:43:40.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
ito pag nawala.

**[05:43:41.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede pong pakialit.

**[05:43:43.030] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Halimbawa, gano'n ba yung pag nawala yung resibo,

**[05:43:48.320] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Automatic na madi-disallow ng ginas dahil wala na itong maipapakita? Wala nang katibayan?

**[05:43:56.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung sa pagbabasayan po yung sa joint circular, yung sa disallowance po kasi, yung hindi siya naging compliant with the joint circular.

**[05:44:11.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sige lang po.

**[05:44:12.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Tapos dun po sa sinasabi ninyo na nawala yung resibo,

**[05:44:18.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Doon po kasi hindi natin ma-check, ma-assertain kung talagang ginamit ba ito kung sa purpose na yun po without yung receipt na yun.

**[05:44:28.900] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tapos napansin ko lang din po sa iyong testimony, no? Yung pong period ng December at New Year season, sa iyong mga eksperyensya, ito ba yung normally na nagkakaroon ng increase sa paggastos ng... Kasi ito yung tungkol sa confidential at nagkaroon ng ano eh, parang pag-spike noong Christmas season na base doon sa iyong presentation. Normal ba ito sa ibang ahensya rin?

**[05:44:57.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po kasi sa ibang ahensya, as a general, doon po sila sa three-month period po. Doon po yung pag-gastos nila.

**[05:45:08.480] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So yung sa... Sa yung, kasi madalas pag Christmas season, yan yung peak season sa karamihan ng paggastos eh. So yung, sa confidential and other, itong mga, itong pinag-uusapan natin mga pondo rito, ganun diba? Meron bang normal ba na ganun ang karamihan na ginagastos na panahon na lumalaki?

**[05:45:34.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po.

**[05:45:42.750] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tapos yung COA, nag-issue po ng notice of disallowance. Is it directing the officers? Namely, ano pang clarify lang, no? Ibalik lang yung pera o na personal capacity.

**[05:45:54.850] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pag nag-issue kayo ng notice of disallowance.

**[05:45:57.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pinapabalik po dun sa mga persons liable po sa transaction. Gaya nga po dun sa ND, yung head of agency, yung SDO, accountant.

**[05:46:10.660] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tapos, is it our understanding or correct that that agency, office with confidential funds, cannot advance its payment only to members later? Kung baga, pwede ba yung ganun na i-re-reimburse na lang kung nauna ng gastusin?

**[05:46:26.660] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang reimbursement po, hindi po ito pinapayagan sa Joint Circular.

**[05:46:30.480] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Hindi po po, ah, so, ito disallowed ka agad? Kasama po sa mga dinasallow n'yo?

**[05:46:35.320] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kung may reimbursement po, oo po.

**[05:46:37.580] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Last na po, in

**[05:46:42.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
your experience, sa inyo pong confidential fund expenses, have you come across with other agencies, sa ibang ahensya, na naggastos yung ganito karami in such a period? Kasi meron doon 11 months na parang nare-iterate sa mga nabasa ko lang po. Na ganong kabilis din po.

**[05:47:02.600] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa ibang agency po, hindi ko na po siya pwedeng i-disclose kasi part na po ng audit ng...

**[05:47:08.430] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
And

**[05:47:08.790] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
that's all, Mr. President.

**[05:47:10.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you,

**[05:47:10.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge. Senator-Judge Rafi Tulfo, you may proceed when you're ready, sir. You have two minutes.

**[05:47:18.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thereafter, our Senate President, thereafter, Senator Lacson.

**[05:47:26.860] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Madam Witness, pag-usapan natin yung safe houses ng OVP. Based dun sa records ng House of Representatives noong 2022, yung OVP ay gumastos ng 16 million pesos sa confidential funds para sa bayad or rental ng safe houses, correct?

**[05:47:42.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:47:43.950] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
At ilang safe houses ito?

**[05:47:46.120] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede po ba macheck ko yung records kayo?

**[05:47:48.200] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Go ahead po.

**[05:48:01.050] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Tulungan na lang kita para mas mapabilis. 34?

**[05:48:04.150] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo. 34 na safe houses. 16 million.

**[05:48:08.510] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
16 million. Ilang araw?

**[05:48:10.070] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
11 days po.

**[05:48:11.330] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
11 days. Okay. Kasi, Madam Witness, base sa 2022 real estate data, ang real estate property, alam mo, sa Forbes Park, 200... 450,000 a month, i-divide mo yan sa every day, just 15,000 pesos a day. Corinthian, 200,000 a month, divided by that per day, 6,666. Sa Ayala-Alabang, 290,000 per month, per day lalabas yan na 9,666. Ito ba yung mga nerentahan ng OVP na safe houses nila? Galing ba sa mga nasabi ko exclusive subdivisions?

**[05:48:53.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong nilagay na addresses noong kanilang safe house. Yung acknowledgement receipts lang po yung naging basihan namin doon sa payment of rental of safe house.

**[05:49:02.170] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Pero hindi sinabi whether Forbes Park, Amanpalo, Boracay, mga ganon, Dasmarinas, wala talaga?

**[05:49:08.670] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po.

**[05:49:09.830] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
So, ibangga mo yan sa mga ibang agencies na nagli-liquidate para sa kanilang mga safe houses? Meron bang ganong klase mga amount na diniklara? Meron bang mga amount na ganon?

**[05:49:22.980] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala po, hindi po ganun kalaki.

**[05:49:24.860] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
So, walang ganun kalaki. So, what do you think of this? Is this excessive, abusive, or out of this world amount?

**[05:49:32.430] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Base po sa inyong experience.

**[05:49:35.440] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ito po kasi is hindi namin naging finding. So, kasi po nag-rely mga po kami dun sa certification ng SDO na these were used for the disbursement of CF and necessary po ito and for legal purpose. Pero kung dito po, malaki po talaga siya for payment of rental of safe house.

**[05:49:57.110] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Kasi lumilitaw, parang 42,780 pesos per day ang bayad ng OVP para sa kunilang mga rental properties noong 2022. So halagang 16 million na spend nila in the 11 days.

**[05:50:15.350] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Now, sa paggamit ng mga aliases. Silent ang joint circular sa paggamit ng mga kenkoy na mga aliases para sa mga informants na tumatanggap ng confidential funds, right?

**[05:50:30.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, silent ang joint circular.

**[05:50:32.670] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Silent din ba ang joint circular sa paggamit ng isang signature sa napakaraming pangalan?

**[05:50:44.730] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pong naging provision ang joint circular dun sa mga

**[05:50:57.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dapat po, ito ay mabigay sa totoong tao po. Yun po ang importante sa Joint Circular.

**[05:51:08.350] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[05:51:09.150] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Maraming salamat po.

**[05:51:10.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Tulfo. The Senate President is recognized for his interjections. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes.

**[05:51:16.210] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[05:51:21.150] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Miss Aileen. Tama ba ba narinig ko kahapon na kaya na disallow yung OVP for 2023 amounting to 375 million is dahil ibinigay ni Acosta kay La Chica yung pera?

**[05:51:45.400] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[05:51:47.380] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Okay. So lahat yun din is allow in 375. Opo. Tinitignan ko rin tong transcripts ng house kung saan sinabi ni Acosta na yung fourth quarter of 2022, ibinigay rin yung 125 million kay La Chica. At on the same transcript, November 25 to 2024, Sinabi naman ni Fajarda na ibinigay yung 37.5 million kay Colonel Nolasco. So in both instances, yung fourth quarter of 2022, tsaka yung buong DepEd confidential funds, ibinigay ng special dispersing officer sa iba. Kung ganyan rin ang sitwasyon, Di dapat ma-disallow rin yung fourth quarter ng 2022 at buong DepEd Confidential Funds. Tama po ba?

**[05:52:54.570] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po kasing sa disallowance nung sa DepEd, yung sa DepEd po kasi is di ba po meron na kaming issue na credit notice. And dahil nga po sa additional information, After namin ma-release yun, August 2024 po kasi yun, November 2024, nagkaroon ng CGPA. So, Pinag-aaralan pa po kasi this is the first time po kung sakali man na magre-reopen kami ng settled accounts. And ito po kasing reopening is with the authority of the COA chairperson. Kaya po pinag-aaralan po kung ito ay re-reopen dahil nga po it is the first time and this involves voluminous documents na kailangang isa-isa rin po.

**[05:53:39.020] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero pag titignan natin yung circumstances, pareho eh. binigay yung pera kay La Chica, binigay yung pera kay Nolasco. Kung ganun susundan natin na rational, puwedeng ma-disallow rin yung fourth quarter OVP at buong DepEd confidential funds. Tama?

**[05:53:54.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, tama po.

**[05:53:56.030] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So, puwedeng ma-disallow buong 612.5 million na confidential funds sa OVP at sa DepEd. Tama?

**[05:54:07.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, tama po.

**[05:54:08.530] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
At yan ay dapat ibalik.

**[05:54:10.640] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
ng mga accountable

**[05:54:11.960] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
officers.

**[05:54:12.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[05:54:14.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Bakit mahalaga ang papel ng special dispersing officer?

**[05:54:19.360] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung special dispersing officer po kasi, siya yung... May responsibility to disperse yung cash advance. And doon po kasi sa nangyari sa DepEd at saka sa OBP. Noong i-transfer po niya ito sa ibang tao, naputol na po yung chain of accountability.

**[05:54:38.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Nawala na po yung personal knowledge kung talaga bang ibinigay ito. Ginamit ito ng mga security officers na pinagbigyan for confidential activities po talaga. And mababaliwala yung certification na this is for the confidential operations of the agency po and legal and necessary yung naging gastos po.

**[05:55:01.630] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In your opinion ngayon na ibinigay ito sa non-special dispersing officer, anong pwedeng mangyari sa pondo na sabi mo kahapon public funds?

**[05:55:12.870] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Dahil nga po, naging mali yung paggasta nito, kailangan pong ibalik ito sa pondo ng bayan. Kung

**[05:55:18.790] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
binigay sa non, hindi siya na SDO, non-SDO, anong pwedeng mangyayari doon sa pondo?

**[05:55:24.330] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pwede po itong magamit sa hindi dapat paggamitan na hindi for confidential expenses. May risk po na gano'n. Thank

**[05:55:32.350] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
you, Mr. President. Senator

**[05:55:33.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
-Judge Lacson, you may proceed when you have two minutes, sir.

**[05:55:37.650] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Thank you. Good afternoon, Sailin. Good afternoon, po. Ayosong pamilyar ka doon sa Article 4, Section 15 ng inyong Joint Circular. Ayan, ipinlas ko lang sa screen para ma-remind ka.

**[05:55:56.040] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pay

**[05:55:56.440] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
attention sa Paragraph 15.2, Paragraph 2, at saka Paragraph 3. Pakibasa mo na lang para hindi mat-chart sa akin.

**[05:56:07.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
that expenses were incurred in connection with the agency's intelligence or confidential operations and activities with supporting documents attached to the liquidation for CF and for the IF, the documentary evidence of payment kept in a sealed envelope in the vault in the office of the SDO.

**[05:56:25.920] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Sige. Sa 3. Paragraph 3.

**[05:56:28.140] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
that the details and supporting documents of transactions that are classified are in the custody of the agency and kept in its vault which may be inspected by ICFAO if the circumstances so demand.

**[05:56:40.340] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Ang

**[05:56:41.000] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
tanong ko, ginawa nyo ba ito?

**[05:56:43.790] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa inspection po kasi ng vault, sa IF na po yun. Hindi,

**[05:56:50.450] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
ICFAO ito ah.

**[05:56:51.450] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Siya sabi, if the circumstances so demand. Hindi ba dinidemand ng circumstances na Inspection yun yung vault,

**[05:57:00.640] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
dahil maraming

**[05:57:02.020] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
aliases.

**[05:57:03.000] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung vault po kasi, yung sa vault po kasi, nagpe-pertain po yun sa intelligence fund, yung

**[05:57:09.100] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
may vault

**[05:57:09.540] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
po sa office. No,

**[05:57:10.120] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
CEF saka IF ito. Hindi lang intelligence. Parehong treatment, Miss Aileen.

**[05:57:17.860] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
415.

**[05:57:20.090] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Ang tanong ko lang, hindi ba dinidemand o dinemand ng circumstances na inspeksyon ninyo yung vault?

**[05:57:29.760] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Kasi kung maraming Eliases na nagdududa kayo, diba natural lamang, logically, isipin n'yo, ma-inspection nga yung vault kung meron talagang mga totoong tao sa likod ng mga Elias o Eliases.

**[05:57:41.960] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ang pag-inspect po kasi is through the authority po of the chairperson.

**[05:57:46.240] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
I know. Hindi kayo kumuha ng authority?

**[05:57:50.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Wala pa po.

**[05:57:51.450] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
My point is, parang kulang yung ginawa n'yong trabaho para hindi kumpleto.

**[05:57:57.800] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi po may iba po kasing office na... No,

**[05:58:00.400] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
ICPAU siyang sabi rito. May be inspected by ICPAU if the circumstances so demand.

**[05:58:08.900] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Opo. Anyway, let's leave it at that. Pamilyar ka ba doon sa 2020-005?

**[05:58:16.900] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Anong circular po yun?

**[05:58:18.760] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Yung sa fraud audit.

**[05:58:23.050] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi po ako gaanong familiar doon sa Joint Circuit. Anyway,

**[05:58:26.170] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
ipamilyarize kita. Meron kayong office, di ba? Yung fraud audit office.

**[05:58:32.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, may separate office po sa COA.

**[05:58:34.410] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Okay, dito sa paragraph 3.1, yung filing, of course, ito, people's participation ito eh. Kailangan merong formal complaint, pero hindi lang complaint information, indication, or complaint na merong fraud.

**[05:58:52.260] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Opo. So, papasok yung fraud audit investigation ng inyong office. Hindi office n'yo. ibang office. Yeah. Pero nakalagay sa 3.1, any person who has knowledge that the transactions of, et cetera, no, eh, puwedeng gumawa ng written information sa inyong, sa office na yon para mapunta doon sa logical conclusion, mapunta sa filing of criminal, filing of criminal charges against whoever, not necessarily the vice president.

**[05:59:25.760] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa pag-refer po sa Fraud Audit Office, ito po ay pinag-aaralan din po kung kinakailangan na i-refer to sa Fraud Audit Office. Ngayon po, pinag-aaralan po namin ang office namin together with the chairperson po kasi kung sakaling may refer po ito, ito po yung first time. And also po, itong transaction na ito involves voluminous documents na with classified information na baka pag ipinun... Inirefer namin sa ibang office is ma-expose po ito. So, pinag-aaralan po itong mabuti. Anyway,

**[06:00:01.060] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
12 seconds na lang. Isa na lang tanong balikan ko yung sa 4.15. Hindi nyo ba naisip na man lang na kung na-inspect nyo yung vault, kumuha kayo ng mga specimen, yun yung mga question document, yung mga signatures. Makompare nyo sana sa mga ibang officials na mayroon kayo yung specimen signature para ma-determine nyo kung forged yung mga signatures na sinabi sa inyo. Yun lang, Mr. President Officer, Mr. Chairman. Kindly answer the question, Celine.

**[06:00:35.790] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, i-re-refer po namin sa higher authority po. Thank you po.

**[06:00:44.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The

**[06:00:45.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Chair would just like to make some interjections. We will not have a round two anymore because we have to convene session at 4.15.

**[06:00:55.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So that we can dispense with the witness already. Just a few questions, Sylene. Wala pang NFD lahat ng pondong pinag-uusapan natin. Fourth quarter of 2022,

**[06:01:07.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the

**[06:01:07.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
first three quarters of 2023 for DepEd and OVB.

**[06:01:11.080] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, wala pa pong NFD.

**[06:01:13.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So wala pang final decision lahat ng ito?

**[06:01:16.180] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po. Pag

**[06:01:18.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
sinabi niyong nag-demand kayo ng restitution, ang ibig sabihin lang naman ito, kinargan n'yo na as an unliquidated cash advance yung mga dinis-allow n'yo.

**[06:01:29.430] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, tama po.

**[06:01:30.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yun lang naman po ang ibig sabihin n'yo, di ba? Hindi naman ibig sabihin, isoli mo, bigay mo yung pera sa akin. Ibig sabihin nun, ilalagay namin yan as unliquidated cash advance during the pendency of the notice of disallowance.

**[06:01:40.510] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yes po, kasi may mga remedies pa po sila.

**[06:01:42.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kasi hindi pa nga final at wala pa ng NFD.

**[06:01:45.390] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[06:01:45.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama po. Pangalawa, ano po ba pagkakaiba ng disbursement sa transfer? Illegal mag-transfer ng pera ang SDO sa isang non-SDO, pero pwede po ba siya mag-disburse sa isang non-SDO o unbounded na tao?

**[06:02:00.720] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi din po pwede. Hindi din po niyang ibigay yun sa unbounded na tao.

**[06:02:09.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Recipient na po yun eh.

**[06:02:10.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa disbursement po niya, opo, hindi bounded, pero kung itat... Dapat po diretso from the SDO to the recipient of the confidential fund po. So ang

**[06:02:22.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
disbursement pwede sa non-bounded na tao, ang transfer ng pondo sa non-bounded hindi pwede. These are technical terms. Opo. Di ba? So kung pinagbigyan ay recipient, pwede yun kahit non-bounded.

**[06:02:39.940] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo, kasi siya na yung talagang recipient nung confidential fund. And

**[06:02:44.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
as a final question, Sarlina, I checked the transcript which the court took judicial notice of. I would like to ask more eyes to look at it. Hindi ko nakita sa transcript na sinabi ni Gina Acosta na binigay niya kay Lachica lahat for the fourth quarter of 2022 and the first three quarters of 2023.

**[06:03:07.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Medyo may ganung punto pa si Eduarda. Pero kay Gina Acosta, maliwanag na binigay niya yung 125 ayon sa kanya kay Lachica sa last quarter. Pero hindi ganung kaliwanag na yun din ang ginawa niya for the first three quarters of 2023. Ano po ba particular yung pinagbasihan niyong dokumento nung binanggit niyong dinisallow namin agad dahil sabi niya Acosta, binigay niya lahat kay Lachica. Hindi ko po makita. Baka pwede niyong maituro sa TSN kung saan.

**[06:03:36.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po kasi ang pinanghawakan namin doon, yung general statement niya na yung ginagawa nila is ibinibigay niya kay Colonel La Chica yung confidential fund po.

**[06:03:45.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero ang tinutukoy po niya ay yung 2025. Yung general statement po ni Eduarda, yun ang tumutukoy sa confidential fund ng DepEd para sa tatlong quarters ng 2023. Pero hindi po pareho yung statement nila ni Gina Acosta. na ganung kaliwanag na yun din yung ginawa niya sa first three quarters of 2023. Ano po ba yung particular na pinagbasihan niya? When you say general statement yung pinagbasihan niyo, yung narinig niyo po ba o yung TSN mismo?

**[06:04:19.210] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun nga po, yung naging admission niya na binibigay niya kay Colonel La Chica po.

**[06:04:25.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kangilisan, Celine, yung narinig mo nung nandun ka o yung TSN mismo?

**[06:04:30.190] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung narinig ko po nung nandun po ako na sinabi niya na binibigay niya kay Colonel. Hindi mo

**[06:04:34.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
pinagbasihan yung aktual na TSN na marahil mas maliwanag tungkol sa bagay nito.

**[06:04:40.170] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[06:04:40.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So based lang dun sa narinig mo nung nandun ka.

**[06:04:43.490] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Opo.

**[06:04:44.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Ms. Aileen. Senator Padilla, yes.

**[06:04:55.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Padilla, yes.

**[06:05:03.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sen. Padilla for a brief interjection and Sen. Marcos for a brief interjection to avail of Round 1, then we call it a day.

**[06:05:12.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sen. Lapid, kindly proceed Sen. Padilla while Sen. Lapid is thinking about it. No, please proceed.

**[06:05:37.870] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Noong August 6, 2024, nagkaroon ng committee hearing ang public order at sinasabi na 102 schools nationwide were identified as recruitment. 11 elementary schools, 34 high schools, 123 colleges and universities. Doon din sa hearing ngayon sinabi na meron 168 track student recruits remain active sa NPA. Ngayon, tanong ko, Kailian, hindi ba responsibilidad din ito ng Vice President at ng DepEd Secretary ang mga estudyante?

**[06:06:15.880] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung sa college po. Yung DepEd po kasi is hanggang high school.

**[06:06:23.420] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Opo, yung binanggit ko po kasi kanina, 55 na alternative child recruits. 11 elementary schools. 34 high schools. Ibig pong sabihin, tuloy-tuloy po yun. Magmula elementary, paakyat hanggang college. Yan po ang style ng recruitment. So, sa tingin n'yo po ba, sagot pa din ito ng DepEd Secretary at ng Vice President na lumaban na dito sa terorista, noong mayor pa lang siya?

**[06:06:56.280] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
No, mate.

**[06:06:57.380] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Oo, hindi. Ma'am, bilis, 42. Just yes or no?

**[06:07:02.620] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Depende pa din po kasi yun sa mandate ng agency.

**[06:07:05.140] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Oo lang po, oo hindi. Sa palagay n'yo po ba?

**[06:07:09.580] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
O sige, skip na po natin kung ano yung sagutin. Alam n

**[06:07:12.580] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
'yo po ba na sinabi ng NICA, ng National Intelligence Coordinating Agency, na ang budget ng NPA, 2016 to 2018, ay 5.8 billion?

**[06:07:25.080] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Oo

**[06:07:25.620] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
po o hindi?

**[06:07:28.820] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ma

**[06:07:29.380] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
'am, please.

**[06:07:30.300] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Ano, pwede pong pakialit?

**[06:07:31.700] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ang budget daw po ng NPA is 5.8 billion.

**[06:07:37.330] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Alam n

**[06:07:37.810] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
'yo po ba yun? Sinabi po ng NICA.

**[06:07:39.950] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi ko po na-relig yun sa inyo.

**[06:07:42.310] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Sa palagay n'yo po ba, sapat yung budget na magkano po ba ang sinasabi n'yo? 500 million ba ang naibigay?

**[06:07:50.870] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Kasama

**[06:07:51.350] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
na po yung sa Vice President at sa DepEd.

**[06:07:54.470] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Kumpara n

**[06:07:55.050] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
'yo po sa 5.8 billion. Sapat po ba yun?

**[06:07:57.850] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pero kasi yung sa nabanggit po ng NICA is... Mako-cover na din po nila bilang isa sila sa mga agencies with... So

**[06:08:05.990] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
alam nyo po yung sinabi na Nika.

**[06:08:09.210] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Alam nyo po.

**[06:08:10.030] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Hindi ko po nalinig yun.

**[06:08:11.010] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Yung

**[06:08:11.030] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
tungkol lang po sa estudyante. Kasi alam nyo naman po, sa ngayon, ang nasa front na inilalagay ay mga estudyante. Nabalitaan nyo po ba yung mga namatay nung huli? Ng mga estudyante?

**[06:08:22.740] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yung mga violence po sa school?

**[06:08:25.160] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Opo, ito na lang po. Eight seconds na lang po ako. January 1, 2024, sinabi po ng AFP. na there is no more guerrilla active front. So, ibig sabihin po, successful.

**[06:08:39.450] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Based mo sa AFP.

**[06:08:40.910] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Salamat po.

**[06:08:42.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge Marcos, for the last intervention.

**[06:08:47.810] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Maraming salamat, Presiding Judge. Simple lang, i-confirm ko lang sa ating testigo.

**[06:08:54.760] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
So I just like to confirm kung tama sabihin na as of now there's no official finding na may fraud sa DepEdMan o sa OVP. Tama po ba? No fraud finding as of now.

**[06:09:08.200] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi nga po, compliance audit lang po ginagawa namin sa IFAO. Tama.

**[06:09:11.580] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Compliance audit lamang, walang fraud audit. Ikalawa, narinig kita kanina na kapag compliance audit, eh base sa dokumento lang. Limited kayo sa dokumentong isinabmit ng ahensya. Kung ganun, yung House of Representatives, hindi namang bahagi ng OVP or DepEd. Wala namang sinabmit sa COA, diba? May sinabmit pa sila yung Congress. Committee on Good Governance. May sinabit na dokumento?

**[06:09:40.560] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Yun po kasi based on other information na po after nilang mag-liquidate. Na naging available information after the liquidation na kinonsider po namin sa audit.

**[06:09:52.100] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Hindi, ibig ko sabihin, yung congressional transcript ni Acosta y Fajarda, hindi yun bahagi ng dokumentong isinumite ng mga ahensya.

**[06:10:05.160] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Walay siya, di ba? Pero ginamit din po namin yung information na yun during our audit.

**[06:10:10.510] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Bakit humingi ka rin ba ng apidavit? Kasi hindi naman binigay ng agency. Kasi sabi mo lang kapag compliance audit, dokumentong galing sa ahensya.

**[06:10:18.970] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pero yun po is relevant information po na ginamit namin for audit po, na sinama namin sa pag-audit.

**[06:10:26.430] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yes, following po, the presiding judge, bakit po ganun, kanina sinabi mo, dapat dokumento na sinabit ng ahensya, biglang ngayon, pati transcript, pati iba pang mga katibayan na sinasabi, eh ginagamit na rin. Eh hindi na compliance audit yun, hindi ba?

**[06:10:43.110] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Pero yun po kasi is related pa din dun sa liquidation which is discovered after the submission of the liquidation documents.

**[06:10:49.930] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Kaya nga nalilito kami kasi bakit dinisallow lahat ng quarter samantalang pinag-uusapan ni Acosta eh iisa lang, di ba? Yung last quarter lamang. Eh doon nga sa transcript, doon lumilitaw yun. So ngayon, tinatanggap na rin pati mga transcript at iba pa. Hindi na dokumento yun as covered by compliance audit by your own definition, di ba?

**[06:11:12.460] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
relevant yung information po in the conduct of the audit. Kung may relevant

**[06:11:16.180] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
sa dyaryo, tatanggapin rin ninyo na evidentia rin yun, compliance audit pa rin yun, kahit nasa dyaryo, nasa social media. Kung sa palagay mo may kinalaman dun sa kaso, tatanggapin ninyo.

**[06:11:28.620] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Kasi nga po, dun sa circular, pwede kaming mag-dependent sa other documents deemed necessary sa audit po.

**[06:11:37.900] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
So, puwede, miss, kaya anong dokumento? Parang lumalabo yata yung joint circular. Maraming salamat po.

**[06:11:47.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Again, that would be the last round for this witness. Miss Aileen, salamat po sa inyong kooperasyon, salamat sa inyong pasensya, salamat sa pagsagot sa lahat ng tanong mula sa magkabilang panig, gayon din mula sa mga senator-judges. You are excused, ma'am, and thank you very much for your time and cooperation.

**[06:12:08.060] Cylene May L. Del Campo**  
Thank you, po, Your Honor.

**[06:12:09.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ingat po kayo. As I understand it, we issued subpoenas for Fajarda, Acosta, and Pareja for only up to today. Will we be issuing subpoenas for the three witnesses again for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, Lead Prosecutor?

**[06:12:28.690] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
We confirm, Your Honor. We just want to put on record that...

**[06:12:32.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can

**[06:12:33.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you place on

**[06:12:33.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
record the order? Yes. We

**[06:12:35.790] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
are moving for the reissuance of subpoena at testificandum for the following trial dates, August 17, 18, and 19, to the same witnesses as follows. One is Ms. Marivic Pareja, the House of Representatives Legislative Information Bureau Director. Second is Ms. Gina F. Acosta. the former Special Disbursing Officer of the OVP or Office of the Vice President. The third is Edward Fajarda, the former Special Disbursing Officer of the Department of Education. We understand, Your Honor, that the Honorable Impeachment Court already noted the respective addresses. However, please note that the subpoena for Edward D. Fajarda must be addressed to the office of the Vice President as well. Yes,

**[06:13:36.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
because he's already transferred to that office.

**[06:13:39.740] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
In line with our intention as well to maximize our time in presenting the prosecution's witnesses, we are likewise requesting for the issuance of subpoena at testificandum to Lemuel G. Ortoño, Assistant Secretary, Assistant Chief of Staff. of the office of the Vice President with the same address at OVP office, Your Honor, in Mandaluyong City. So this is the fourth one. Sorry, Your Honor.

**[06:14:13.110] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
This is the fourth one.

**[06:14:14.090] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
This is the fourth one, Your Honor. And we would like to put on record as well that the written manifestation with request Four subpoenas at testificandum has been furnished to the defense and has been filed with the Office of the Clerk of Court of the Honorable Impeachment Court.

**[06:14:30.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And the Chair would like to remind the lead counsel to kindly furnish the counsel for the respondent any requested stipulation for documents you may want to prior. to the scheduled trial on Monday. So hopefully within the day or tomorrow. So they can already comment on it in open court on Monday.

**[06:14:52.580] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
We submit, Your Honor.

**[06:14:54.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any other matter you want to take up, counsel, for respondent?

**[06:14:57.240] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor, good afternoon. I confirm receipt of the manifestation with the request for subpoena sa testificandum for... The four intended witnesses of the prosecution for next week. I would just like to inquire the order in which the prosecution intends to present these four witnesses. Specifically, who would be their witness on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Just for our guidance.

**[06:15:22.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I believe it is in the order stated Pareja, followed by Acosta, followed by Fajarda, and then Ortonio, Your Honor.

**[06:15:32.240] Atty. Antonio Eduardo B. Capistrano**  
We confirm, Your Honor.

**[06:15:33.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In that order. So the subpoena for Antonio will be issued only on 18 and 19 because surely we cannot take him up on the 17th.

**[06:15:40.920] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you for the clarity, Your Honor. Second item is that we also would like to confirm that as of today, in response to the directive of the presiding officer, we have not yet received any request for any potential stipulations or any factual stipulations to prosecution. intends to ask from the defense. However, the more important manifestation that I would like to make today, Your Honor, is in relation to a social media post that I happened to see. And this was posted at 11.29 a.m. by one of the private prosecutors, Atty. Amando Virgil Ligutan, posting that a principal, or lawyers and law students know by heart, Misleading questions are not allowed even in cross-examination. Now, this was posted and picked up by inquire.net at 11.29 a.m. today. And I surmise that this has something to do with the exchange between the private prosecutor, Attorney Capunan, and the defense counsel, Attorney Ferrer, on the matter of the... cross-examination question that Attorney Federer asked the prosecution's witness. And I have here a transcript because I find it troubling that a private prosecutor would do this in the middle of a courtroom hearing. Because as far as I'm concerned, impeachment court is also a court of decorum. And the rules on impeachment under Rule 18 Actually prohibits participants, especially lawyers, from commenting about the merits of the case. Now, one may argue that this isn't about the merits of the case, that he probably was just commenting about what ought or ought not to do in a cross-examination. But we, you know, we're not naive. What the private prosecutor is talking about is here. He can explain it. He can explain himself if the presiding officer so desires. But I really just find it in bad... I think it is inappropriate to do that to a fellow member of the bar because even as we sit on the opposing side of this hall, we remain to be both members of the bar and as officers of the court, we owe each other respect, you know, politeness or even kindness. And it doesn't take one to be a lawyer to know that the first thing that our parents teach us to do is humility. Your Honor? No, I'm not yet done, Your Honor.

**[06:18:34.170] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
In fact, I have asked one of our lawyers to review the actual transcript from the video that conspired between the prosecutor and attorney. Ferrer, and it would seem that in the heat of the exchange or in the passionate exchange of the arguments between the prosecutor and Attorney Ferrer, Attorney Ferrer was not even actually referring to misleading questions as allowed, as implied in the social media posts of Attorney Ligutan. In fact, It's here. The court can confirm this from a replay of the video. Atty. Ferrer, sinabi ho ba yan sa JC na dapat may mahuli? The witness answers, ang nakalagay po kasi sa JC under 4.8.2 ay proof of success. Atty. Ferrer, hindi. Sorry, Your Honor, please. Atty. Capunan, let the witness answer, Your Honor. Mr. Presiding Officer, can the counsel be instructed not to stop the witness mid-sentence, Your Honor? Atty. Ferrer, Your Honor, please, can the witness be directed to just answer with yes or no? The counsel has her time to ask clarificatory questions later during redirect, Your Honor. Atty. Kapuna, not all questions, not all questions can be answered by yes or no. This is the myth! of the contention of the argument between Atty. Capunan and Atty. Ferrer. Atty. Ferrer responded, I am on cross, Your Honor, please. And the presiding officer said, counsels. Atty. Capunan responded, never mind if you are on cross, Your Honor. There are limits to cross-examination. Misleading questions are not allowed on cross. This was the first time that the matter on misleading questions was actually raised by Atty. Capunan. And Atty. In effect, Atty. Ferrer was only saying that leading questions are allowed. On cross-examination, not misleading questions, and yet we have a private prosecutor immediately taking to social media and posting this implying something against the defense counsel. We will not have this.

**[06:21:05.780] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor, in the interest of fair play, may I request that counsel for the panel of prosecutors? Atty. Virgilio couldn't be recognized.

**[06:21:14.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Unfortunately, counsel, no, the presiding officer will not allow that at this time. The presiding officer takes in advisement the manifestation of the lead counsel for the respondent because quite frankly, Honorable Luistro, I asked the clerk of court to monitor the public statements of the counsels of the parties this past week. And one side has been crossing the line many, many times. In fact, the presiding officer has already is already in the process of drafting a ruling and a warning and an order pertaining to this. Because clearly, I can even name all of you who have been commenting on social media in violation of Rule 18 of the Impeachment Rules.

**[06:22:08.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But I will do that on Monday, perhaps, after taking advisement, the manifestation of the Council for Respondent. It's not really so much.

**[06:22:18.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Being cordial or nice or kind but it's a basic violation of Rule 18. I already talked to the parties two weeks ago reminding you that you might want to consider appointing spokespersons who are not part of the panel of prosecutors nor a private prosecutor but you insist on maintaining that. So after two weeks, the court is constrained to make a decision and ruling on that. But we will do that on Monday with the permission of both counsels. Then we will hear you, counsel, and we will hear Attorney Ligutan prior to the court's ruling on the matter. But be advised that again, we have it all on tape. We have been monitoring everything. We may not enumerate it one by one. but we will make the corresponding ruling on Monday. Thank you for bringing that up, counsel. It gives me a reason to actually issue the ruling which we have prepared and have been preparing the past few days. On Monday, Attorney Ligutan, we will hear you before we make the ruling. Thank you. There being no other matter to be taken up by the trial and by the court, we hereby adjourn until Monday, August 17, still at 10 a.m.

**[06:23:35.140] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you, Your Honor.