July 13, 2026

...

Sergeant at Arms is directed to make the proclamation.

All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

The Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge JV Ejercito.

Amon namin mga pangyarihan, lumalapit kami sa iyo nang may pakumbaba. Batid namin na ang karunungan ng tao ay may hangganan. Ngunit ang iyong katotohanan at katarungan ay nanatili magpakailanman.

Sa

pagtupad namin ng aming tungkulin binang mga senator judges, hinihiling namin ang iyong gabay sa lahat ng aming gagawin. Pagkalooban mo, nawa kami ng tapat na puso at malinaw na pag-iisip. Sa buong panahon ng paglilitis na ito, Panginoon, nakikiusap po kami na kayo niyo kami sa landas na makatarungan na may patas na pagtingin sa karapatan ng bawat isa. Dalhin niyo kami sa liwanag pagkat nakapiring ang aming mga mata, hindi man po namin hiningi, ngunit ipinagkatiwala sa aming konstitusyon ang timbangan ng katarungan. Kumiling nawa ito sa karapat-dapat na pagkalooban nito. Nawa ang inyong salita ang maging gabays sa aming paglilingkod at pagdala sa amin sa katotohanan. Kagaya po ng Winika sa Leviticus 19.15, Do not pervert justice, do not show partiality, but judge your neighbor fairly. Lagi po naman tatandaan ang tagubili niyong ito. Amma, anuman ang maging bunga ng paglilitis na ito, hindi nawa itong makita bilang tagumpay ng isa at pagkatalo ng iba, kundi para sa kabubuti ng sambay ng Pilipino. Lahat po ng aming gagawin ay para sa kalulugod mo at hindi para sa kapinabangan ng sino mang tao, mga partido o kanilang mga pansariling interes. Kundi ito'y para sa pagpapatibay ng aming mainstitusyon ng pamalaan at sa pagpapanatili ng tiwala ng mamamayan sa demokrasya ng aming bayan. Bum puso po naming nananalangin na sa lahat ang aming gagawin, lagit-lagi naming kayong pinupuryan. Amen.

Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Cayetano, Alan. Senator-Judge Cayetano, Pia. Senator-Judge Dela Rosa. Senator-Judge Ejercito. Senator-Judge Estrada. Senator-Judge Go. Senator-Judge Hontiveros. Senator-Judge Lacson. Senator-Judge Lapid. Senator-Judge Legarda. Senator-Judge Marcoleta. Senator-Judge Marcos. Senator-Judge Padilla. Senator-Judge Pangilinan. Senator-Judge Sotto III. Senator-Judge Tulfo, Erwin. Senator-Judge Tulfo, Raffy. Senator-Judge Villanueva. Senator-Judge Villar, Camille. Senator-Judge Villar, Mark. Senator-Judge Zubiri. The Presiding Officer, Senator-Judge Escudero. The Senate President, Senator-Judge Gatchalian.

With 17 senators present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum.

We note the presence of Senator-Judge Bong Go. We have 18. And Senator-Judge Imee Marcos. We have [unclear] senators present.

If there

are no objections, we dispense with the reading of the July 8, 2026 Journal of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and consider the same as approved.

The Clerk will please call the case before the impeachment court.

2026. In the matter of the impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

Sen. Rafi Tulfo is seeking recognition. What is the pleasure of Sen. Judge Rafi Tulfo?

Thank you, Presiding Judge Escudero. Short inquiry lang po for the defense, particularly kay Atty. Mark Vinluan. Atty., you know what? During the last hearing, when you delivered a manifestation in reply to the prosecution's statement regarding the fourth article of impeachment, You said, and I quote, The truth of the matter is this. She and her family were threatened, and while her response was unconventional, it was justified. What triggered her response was a question about Operation Romanov, which is the plot to eliminate VP Sara and her family. End of quote. Now, Atty. Bin Luan, this Operation Romanov that you mentioned, Are you referring to the Operation Romanov mentioned by the blogger Princess Maui during the online press conference of BP-SARA?

Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. So, the question was raised during the press conference by this Princess Maui, but I did not see her name as a list of defense witnesses in the pre-trial order. So, will you be presenting her as your witness?

Your Honor, at this point, it will depend on... What will be established by the prosecution, the defense reserve its right to call or not call any witness depending on the course of the trial.

Oh, I see. Okay. So, in other words, will you also be presenting any other witness to prove this threat or this operation, Romanov?

Yes, Your Honor. That will be part of our evidence in chief.

May this court know now? Kung sino-sino itong mga witnesses na inyong i-present? Of course,

of course, Your Honor. We are not at liberty to disclose that at this time. Again, it will depend on the course of the time.

Your Honors, Presiding Judge, the first time I've heard about this Romanov is during the Maisog Leaders Forum in Davao City. That was on January 28, 2024. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was mentioned by Mayor Baste Duterte.

At that time, hindi ko alam anong ibig sabihin ng Romanov at sino mga ito. In fact, ginugil ko yan. Sino itong family Romanov? So napagalaman ko, apparently, they were the ruling family in Russia that was murdered by the Bolsheviks in the night of July 16, 1918. Malapit-lapit na sa anniversary, 108th anniversary. Kasi ano ba tayo ngayon, July 13. Anyway, may relasyon ba ito sa binanggit ni Bastet sa sinabi ni Princess Maui at yung binanggit mo? Nakakarelasyon ba yung tatlo?

Your Honor, I have no personal knowledge of what Mayor Bastet said so I cannot comment on that, Your Honor.

So hindi mo napanood yun? No, Your

Honor.

Okay. And last question. What did you mean when you said that BP's arrest response was unconventional?

Your Honor, it was a description, Your Honor, of the statements that she made during that press conference.

Why is it unconventional?

Your Honor, the basic meaning of the word is, it will explain itself, Your Honor.

Okay, that's all, Presiding Judge. Noted and entered into the records.

Yes, what is the pleasure of the Honorable Defensor, one of the members of the panel of prosecutors. You may

proceed,

Sir.

Thank you, Your Honors. Your Honors, before we proceed, With the examination of our second witness, Your Honors, the prosecution is in receipt of a letter dated July 10, 2026 from NBI Director Melvin A. Matibag requesting that his testimony be scheduled or calendared at the earliest setting considering that the National Bureau of Investigation, Your Honors, has been invited by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In coordination with the Royal Thai Police for a regional summit on scam center compounds and transnational organized crime. In that regard, Your Honor, the prosecution would like to request that the scheduled testimony of NBI Director Melvin Matibag be scheduled tomorrow after the testimony of our second witness, Atty. Jeremy A. Lotoc.

After the testimony of your second witness.

Yes, your honors.

But the supposed witness scheduled for tomorrow is Atty.

Zulaika Lopez for the gentleman's manifestation in the last hearing.

That's correct, your honor. After we have dispensed with the testimony of NBI Director Matibag, we can proceed with the schedule of witnesses as provided in the list to the senator judges last week, your honors.

To include Captain Belio, if I'm not

Mistaken?

Yes, we can proceed with Atty. Lopez and Captain Belio as manifested last week, Your Honors.

What is the pleasure of Senator Judge Cayetano, Alan?

Mr. Presiding Officer, if no one objects, I will not object to having Director Matibag yesterday, but maybe as a caution to government officials, my good friend, Congressman Defensor. I read over the weekend that Director Matibag is writing because he is to be in a convention meeting the FBI next week. So actually, we're going to be here 30 weeks. We have put aside many, many important things. We have put aside many foreign trips, many local trips, whether it's to help dun sa tinamaan ng Nang lindol sa Mindanao or tinatamaan ng baha ngayon because we have to be here two o'clock until matapos tayo every Monday to Wednesday then after the sauna every Tuesday to Wednesday. I find it in bad taste that a bureau head will dictate to us that he's not available next week. I was Secretary of Foreign Affairs. That's why you have undersecretaries. That's why you have deputy director. So, I mean, I admire the patience of the prosecution, no? But even the prosecution, they have a way of timing and laying down the witnesses, eh. So, I don't want later on to say na eh dapat natanong ko muna ito sa unang witness, kaya lang si director matibag inuna dahil ganito o ganyan. I'd like to put that on record and ask my colleagues if that's acceptable to us. At least those who are not in jail or the 21 of us are here. The whole government, nakatutok. We put aside so many important things. And then one witness, who is in the government, who is a bureau head? Will tell us, sorry, but because he has to be with the FBI, siya na yung mauna tomorrow. That might be a bad precedent, Mr. Presiding Officer.

May I be allowed to give a

reply? The gentleman

will please respond to the appoint of Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano.

With due respect to the Honorable... Senator Judge Alan Peter Cayetano, we will always respect the decision of the honorable court. However, we will only be advancing his testimony one day based on the subpoena that we have requested the honorable court. He is scheduled to testify until Wednesday and that we will not disrupt the scheduled list of witnesses. We will simply advance it one day.

Would you respect, Congressman Representative Defensor, I ask That question poignantly last week. If Matibag will be one of your witnesses for this week and you said no. In fact, you corrected Atty. Ligutan when he mentioned Director Matibag as one of your witnesses and instead gave me a list of Lotoc, Zulaika Lopez, and Captain Belio. Matibag was not included. In fact, I don't think we issued a subpoena.

For Director Matibag for this week, given your manifestation after you took over, given that you have, as you said, control and supervision over the private, the counsel for the prosecutors. So he's not in your list this week. He's not being advanced for a day, sir.

May I respond, Your Honor? Please

so.

Your Honor, that's correct. I gave a list of witnesses scheduled for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. However, Your Honor, to add, I also added that since NBI Director Matibag has been requested for a subpoena to testify within the week. I also added in my statement that we will inform the Honorable Court which day we can present the Honorable Matibag and I was expecting him to be presented on Wednesday after the testimony of Captain Belinda Bello, Your Honors.

I confirm that but the situation is Given the one-witness-per-day rule that we supposedly have under the rules of court, no subpoena has yet been issued to Director Matibag to appear this week. Can the Clerk of Court kindly confirm that for us on the record?

No subpoena has been issued for NBI Director Matibag.

May I

respond, Your Honor? Senator Judge Alan Cayetano is recognized.

My statement and my question to the court is not really addressed to the prosecution. You will have to do the best you can to represent what you're fighting for. So I commend you for adjusting. But my recollection is because I'm also waiting for his testimony. And my recollection last week is that we will not see him this week. And I think 11 days. 11 days ang sa article na to. So we're on day 4. So kung hindi siya pwedeng next week, that's day 7, 8, 9.

Again, I don't want to dictate sa prosecution or ano. But to suddenly say na tomorrow na siya. When I'm preparing for our oral argument tomorrow and the other witnesses, it's a

little bit, it's a small inconvenience for today. But I hope it doesn't become a rule, especially for a bureau head.

I mean, if no one else objects, but if someone objects, I don't think it's really a good rule. You know, rules are important. I'll have to keep, you say technicalities, and no, rules are important. So even yung notice, we agreed on, siding officer, three day ba? Five day notice?

Five days for witnesses not mentioned in the pre-trial order. And

then three days kapag ka...

Three days given the fact that we will be announcing the witnesses for the following week on the last day.

Anyway, I said my piece but I hope we will not be able to move faster if we have to accommodate the witnesses especially if they're in government.

May I add something,

Your Honor? Before the Honorable Defensor, the Presiding Officer would like to hear from the Council for the Respondents. Atty. Vinlun, what say you?

Yes, Your Honor. We would have to oppose. On the basis of the following, number one, it will be in violation, your honor, of the impeachment

court's directive that was given last week insofar as the identities of the witnesses and as well as the order of the presentation. Number two, your honor, it will be again as mentioned by Senator Judge Cayetano, a violation of the five-day notice rule since while he was subpoenaed the week before, your honor, we are learning that

he will be presented this week. The five-day notice will not be observed. Number three, the prosecution cannot compel also the defense and this impeachment court to present witnesses according to their schedule, considering also that these witnesses have already been identified and determined. Of course, it will be a violation of the basic tenets of fair play. And to join again the manifestation of Senator Judge Caytana, it will set a bad precedent. And so far, surprise witnesses will be allowed at any point of the proceedings. Number five would be, it will also violate our right to cross-examine intelligently. We have done our best to prepare for

their witnesses. However,

these last-minute changes really affect the preparation involved, Your Honor. And insofar as laying down the case that we want to establish and finally if there are violations of these proceeding rights there will be a violation of a

procedural due process which of course can give way to another ground to further delay the proceedings moreover your honor

um we If the prosecution would also allow, can we also get a copy, Your Honor, of that invitation? And may we inquire of the prosecution

if the particular travel authority has already been made? Because, Your Honor, we received information as well that

the FBI had already conducted a summit, a regional summit of some sort, but it was conducted of June. In June of, in other words, last month, Your Honor, also in Bangkok, Thailand. So, we would have to, again, manifest and we would have to study, Your Honor, the invitation and counter-check and do the proper verification as well. So that, if

it is indeed viable, then we would understand, Your Honor, why it has to be attended to by Director Matiba, Your Honor.

Um, Senate President Gatchalian, recognized. You may proceed, sir.

Thank you, thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Sinusuportahan ko po yung statement ni Senator Judge Allen Cayetano. Dahil hindi lang naman po yung councils ng prosecution at defense na naghahanda. Pati mo mga senator judges naghahanda rin. At sa totoo lang itong weekend, marami rin sa ating mga senator judges ay pinag-aaralan kung ano yung kanilang maitatanong sa mga testigong ihaharap ngayong linggo. Marami po ay pinag-aaralan po yung mga ebedensyang inupload na para po sa ating mga senator judges. At hindi po ito konting ebedensya, pinag-uusapan po natin dito. Libo-libong mga papel at libo-libong mga ebedensya. Kung bigla pong may isisingit na testigo, hindi ho rin makakahanda po yung ating mga senator judges sa kanilang pagtatanong at hindi rin ho nilang mababasa yung mga dokumento at ebidensya na nakakabit ho doon sa testigong iharap. Kaya napakahirap naman po na naghahanda ho tayo pero biglang may mga ganitong supresya na hindi ho natin paghahandaan at hindi naman ho yan magiging maayos at For the

record, Chair would like to confirm the statement of the Honorable Defensor, I will quote,

We'll take for both parties. With the permission of Senators, Senator Judge Cayetano and the Senate President, may we defer our ruling on this matter and ask the Council for the Prosecution to submit to us the letter given to you by Director Matibag for us to be able to look at it. Copy furnished, of course, the Council for the Respondent so that we can adequately go over it. And hopefully come up with a ruling before the day is over.

Would that be possible?

We will submit the letter. Thank you, Your Honor.

So, we shall do it that way. Kindly furnish a copy to counsel for the respondents as well for their review.

Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor, if the travel authority is also available, if we can ask for a copy.

Travel authority, if it's already issued.

Yes, of course. Kindly furnish us that as well. Your Honors, we will submit in good faith whatever the prosecution has received from Director Matibag, Your Honor.

As well as kindly communicate with him, if possible, if he already has a travel authority for the same, so that we could evaluate it based on what you have. We cannot evaluate it based on what you don't have. So we will presume if you don't have it, it's not yet there.

Your Honor, one last addition. Considering that there's a if and when they provide the travel authority, I understand, Your Honor, that one of the requirements is also the official invitation from the foreign body. So if they can also provide that, Your Honor, so that we can do a full review of this matter.

Atty. Vinluan, it's not really for the full review of the counsel for the prosecution but rather for this court's evaluation whether or not to allow the motion of the counsel.

Your Honors, I respectfully request that counsel for the panel of House prosecutors, Atty. Virgil Ligutan, be recognized for the presentation of our second witness.

Atty. Ligutan, counsel for the prosecutors, is recognized to present the prosecution's second witness. You may proceed, sir.

Mayong hapon sa atong tanan, the second witness for the prosecution is no other than Atty. Jeremy C. Lotoc. We call to the witness stand, Atty. Lotoc.

Kindly situate Atty. Lotoc to the witness stand.

Atty. Lotoc, please remain standing as the Clerk of Court administers the oath so far as the prosecution's second witness is concerned. Clerk of Court is recognized.

Please raise your right hand. You,

Jeremy C. Lotoc. I, Jeremy C. Lotoc.

Do swear. Do

swear.

That the evidence you shall give.

That the evidence that I will be giving. In

the case now pending.

In the

case now pending,

between the Philippines and Vice President Sarah Zimmerman Duterte,

shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help

me

God.

Your witness, counsel for the prosecutors.

Atty. Lotoc, you may sit down.

Thank you, sir.

Your honors, the testimony of our second witness. Atty. Jeremy C. Lotoc is offered to prove the following. Number one,

Jeremy Lotoc is a lawyer by profession and he was the chief of the Cybercrime Division of the National Bureau of Investigation, or NBI, in 2024.

[unclear] ang dating Speaker ng House of Representatives. Pangatlo, napag-alaman ng NBI na ang mga pagbabanta ng Vice Presidente ay

seryoso at totoo matapos nilang isaalang-alang ang mga sumusunod Una, the manner of the respondent's delivery of the statement that she intended her remarks to be Real and serious threats. She was not merely joking when she uttered those threats.

Pangalawa, mga kababayan, even before that fateful press conference on November 23, 2024, bago yung press conference na iyan,

May nakontrata ng mamamatay tao yung vicepresidente bago pa man ang press conference na iyan.

Pangatlo, ang utos ng vicepresidente sa asasin na huwag siyang titigil hanggat hindi napapatay ang Pangulo ng Pilipinas, ang Unang Ginang, at ang Speaker 4.

The result of the investigation, and after determining that the respondent's threats are serious and real, led the NBI to file complaints for three counts of grave threats and one count of inciting to sedition. 5. This witness, Atty. Lotoc, will identify and authenticate the affidavit of investigation, the annexes, as well as a couple of videos in relation to the NBI's investigation. 6. He will also testify on such other matters as are relevant and material to the impeachment of the Vice President.

Council for the Responder, Atty. Vinluan.

Subject for cross, Your Honor.

Thank you so much. The Council for the Prosecutor may

proceed.

Dag-hagsalamat, Mr. Presiding Officer, Honorable Judges.

Atty. Lotoc. Sir. Maupay Ngakulup Haibo.

Maupay Ngakulup man, Sir.

Waray-waray po. We are both waray-waray. At the same time, Siwano. Atty. Lotoc, pwede bang mas malapit pa sa microphone para marinig ng sambayanan lahat ng isasagot ko sa mga tanong ko? Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Lotoc, kindly state your name, edad, and other personal circumstances.

I am Atty. Jeremy C. Lotoc, 50 years of age, and currently the Regional Director of the NBI Bangsamoro Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao. Sir. Sinabi mo

ikaw ay isang abogado, Atty. Lotoc, di ba? Opo. Na yung tanong, kailan ka naging membro ng ating Philippine Bar? I

was admitted to the Philippine Bar and took my lawyer's oath in 2013, Sir.

2013. Now, Mr. Lotoc, ano ba yung current position mo, occupation mo, kung meron man?

The Regional Director of the NBI Bangsamoro Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao, Sir. Ikaw ay

isang NBI Regional Director for BARM. Now, yung tanong is how long have you been with the NBI? I've been in the NBI for the past 12 years, sir. 12 years. Tanong is, I think, based on my counting, that would be since 2014. Tama po ba? Opo, Your Honor. Now, kailan ka ba na-designate as the NBI Regional Director ng BARM? I was designated in January this year. As Regional Director of the NBI-BARM, sir. January 2026. Now, prior to your designation as the NBI Regional Director for BARM, ano ba yung previous position mo within NBI? I was the Regional

Director for Region IV-B or MIMAROPA, sir. I think July 2025.

July

2025

you became. Okay. Now, prior to your designation, As NBI Regional Director for Mimaropa, what was your previous position kung meron man? I was the Chief of the NBI Cybercrime Division, Your Honor. Chief ng NBI Cybercrime Division. Now, kailan ka? Kailan ka na-designate as Chief ng NBI Cybercrime Division? I was designated in February 2023, Sir. 2023, no? Now, Sinabi mo ikaw ay naging chief ng NBI, Cybercrime Division. Now, yung tanong Mr. Atty. Lotoc is, what were your primary duties and functions bilang jepe ng NBI, Cybercrime Division?

Primary duties, among others, to plan, direct and supervise the investigation of... Cybercrime cases pursuant to Republic Act 10175 and other relevant laws. And part of my duties and responsibilities is to investigate high-profile cases pursuant to Republic Act 10867, specifically crimes committed by, through and with the use of information and communication technology, sir.

Now,

Mr. Witness, of course, you are aware Ikaw ay tumitistigo sa impeachment trial ng respondent. Now, yung tanong is, kilala mo ba yung respondent sa kasong ito? Yes, Your Honor. Okay, yung tanong now is, why

do you know her? She is the incumbent vice president of the Philippines and she is the subject of the investigation by the NBI, Cybercrime Division, Your Honor.

So, nasabi mo, she is the subject. An investigation ng NBI Cybercrime Division. Now, yung tanong Atty. Lotoc is, kailan ba? Kailan nagsimula yung investigation ng NBI Cybercrime Division on the respondent? November 23, 2024, Sir. November 23, 2024. Yung tanong na Atty. Lotoc is, why? Why did the Cybercrime Division commence? An investigation on the Vice President?

We were directed by the then Director of Justice, IDP Santiago to conduct an investigation with regard to a certain video involving an online press conference held on November 23, 2024 where the Vice President uttered that she had already contracted a person.

To

kill the President, Lisa Marcos and the former Speaker of the House, Sir.

Now, yung tanong Atty. Lotoc is, sa pagkakaalam mo, or kung alam mo, ba't yung NBI yung inaktasang gumawa ng investigasyon na ito? Well, under the law, specifically

Republic Act 10867, the NBI has primary jurisdiction to undertake investigations On cases, among others, cases involving threats to security and assault against the persons of the highest officials, sir.

So, threats or assaults on or against highest officials, nasabi mo, di ba? Now, yung tanong nga to ni Lotoc is, sino ba yung mga highest officials na kung may threat or may assault sa kanila, NBI has to do it, an investigation? Sino yung mga officials na ito?

Yes, Your Honor. They are the President, the Vice President, the Senate President, the Speaker of the House, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, sir.

All

right. Now,

so you mentioned Presidente, Vice President, tsaka yung iba pa. Now, you mentioned, Atty. Lotoc, that the NBI conducted an investigation on the respondent's statements during an online media briefing On November 23, 2024. Yung tanong na atty. Lotoc is, what

exactly did the respondents say on that day that resulted to the investigation?

On that online press conference held on November 23, 2024, the vice president uttered the following.

Huwag kang mag-alala, ma'am, sa security ko sapagkat may kinausap na akong tao. Ang sabi ko sa kanya, pag pinatay ako, patayin mo si BBM, si Lisa Marcos, si Martin Romaldez. No joke, no joke. Nag-bill-in na ako, ma'am. Ang sabi ko sa kanya, pag namatay ako, huwag kang tumigil hanggat hindi mo sila mapapatay. And he said yes.

Now, Atty. Lotoc, yun yung statement. Sino ba yung mga membro ng investigation team na galing sa division mo, yung cybercrime division?

We have Atty. Van Angluben, the then Executive Officer for Operations ng Cybercrime Division; Atty. Vanessa Asuncion, the Executive Officer for Administration back then; John Mark Calilung, the agent on case; and myself, Your Honor.

You mentioned Agent John Mark Calilung.

Yes, Your Honor.

The same person who testified before you?

Yes, Your Honor.

Now, Mr. Witness, how did your division commence the investigation?

I instructed the team, specifically Agent Kalilong, that for this particular case, We have to follow the five phases or stages of cybercrime investigation, sir. So you instructed

John Mark Calilong to follow four stages of the investigation? The theme and John

Mark Calilong, sir.

Now you mentioned, Atty. Lotoc, yung four stages ng cybercrime division for the information ng ating honorable judges sa kanyang publiko. This is the question now. Ano ba yung four stages ng investigation na ito?

And then the legal evaluation and case filing as the final phase, sir.

So

these are the four stages.

Now, if you know, if you know, what was Agent Kalilong's response, and if any, sa naging instruction mo sa kanya, nasundin yung four stages ng cybercrime investigation?

Well, he said yes, and then he proceeded to identify He proceeded to identify and preserve the digital

evidence in question. You said that you instructed Agent Kalilong to identify and preserve digital evidence. Yung tanong now is, what is this evidence that you are referring to?

An online press conference held on November 23, 2024, which was streamed through the Facebook page of one Atty.

Herminio Lopez Roque Jr. or Harry Roque, Your Honor. So

it was the Facebook page of Harry Roque who livestreamed the video? Yes, Your Honor. Okay, now. Is she with us?

After Agent Calilong identified and preserved yung sinasabi mong video, which you said is the first stage of the investigation, ano yung nangyari after that kung meron man tsaka kung alam mo?

Yes, Your Honor. The agent in case proceeded to collect that digital evidence and generated hash value on that digital evidence and at the same time stored that. In a data carrier, Your Honor.

Alam mo, Atty. Lotoc, this is the first time na narinig natin yung term na hash value. And I think it's just proper na yung next question ko para malaman ng publiko. Atty. Lotoc, ano ba yung hash value na iyan?

Well, under the implementing rules and regulations of Republic Act 101.75 or the Reorganization and Modernization Act of NBI, hash value refers to Matematical algorithm applied

to the

information like the file, the physical disk or the logical disk, in this case, the digital evidence, thereby creating a digital fingerprint or DNA for that information or digital evidence, Your Honor.

So, to create a fingerprint for the video, is that what you're saying? Yes, Your Honor. In this case, the video. Alright. Now, Mr. Witness. After the identification, preservation, collection and hashing, so far these are the two stages, what happened next, if any, in relation to your investigation on the Vice President's statement?

We proceeded to the analysis

and attribution phase. Now, ano yung nangyari, kung meron man, tsaka kung alam mo, in this analysis and attribution phase?

In the analysis, we established the intent, the motive, the capability of the Vice President to carry out the threats [unclear] mentioned, as well as we proceeded to identify the individuals present in that press conference on November 23, 2024, sir.

Okay. So sinabi mo, you proceeded to identify the different individuals in that video. Siguro 'yung publiko, they're now interested. So what happened? What happened pagkatapos n'yong mag-proceed sa pag-identify, sino ba 'yung nasa video na 'yan?

First, we identified media personalities from the Philippine Daily Inquirer, the Manila Times, Reuters, SMNI, et cetera. And then we also identified the Vice President herself, who in their presence openly and publicly uttered that she had already contracted a person to kill the President, Liza Marcos, and the former Speaker of the House, and instructed the person to be relentless in killing the three. It was streamed through the Facebook page of Harry Roque, Your Honor.

We continued the open source investigation to determine if there were utterances made by the Vice President in previous dates,

Your

Honor.

Now, ano ba yung naging resulta kung meron man tsaka kung alam mo sa naging open source investigation ng NBI into sinasabi mong mga previous statements ng Vice President?

We have found a press conference dated October 18, 2024 streamed through the official Facebook page of the Office of the Vice President.

And we were able to identify, for us, being the investigator, at least three material lines or utterances made by the vice president, sir.

Okay. So you said in that press conference, sinabi mo you found three utterances or statements ng vice president. Among others, sir,

yeah.

Among others. So let's focus on these three. Ano ba yung three statements na sinasabi mo?

Well,

the

first one, The Vice President uttered, Gusto kong tanggalin yung ulo niya ba? And then the second one, the Vice President uttered, I realize toxic na itong relationship. Referring to the relationship between the Vice President and the President. And then number three, I imagine myself cutting his head. Okay now, recap,

sinabi mo, gusto kong tanggalin yung ulo niya. And then sinabi mo rin sa third, I imagine cutting his head. Based on your investigation, Atty. Lotoc, kaninong ulo ba yung rinerefer ng Vice President na gusto niyang tanggalin? The President of the Republic of the Philippines. Yung ulo ng Presidente ng Republika ng Pilipinas. Opo.

What proof, if any, do you have that the Vice President said this?

We have that video, Your Honor, dated October 18, 2024. Now, kung

maaalala mo, Mr. Witness, saang portion or portion ng video na iyan, maririnig yung Vice President. Sinasabi yung mga katagang, gusto kong tanggalin yung ulo niya. Imagine myself cutting his head.

Your Honor, if I may refer to my notes.

Your Honor, I move that.

Witness may do so.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Your Honor.

Yes, counsel for respondent may observe as the witness peruses his notes. Your Honor, may we also be allowed to

do the same?

Similar order with respect to the counsel for the prosecutor.

Your Honor, from time stamps 1 hour 35 minutes and 57 seconds. 1 hour 36 minutes and 10 seconds.

And

then 1 hour 36 minutes and 52 seconds. And then 1 hour 36 minutes and 58 seconds.

Okay, so for your honor, for the record, Okay,

your honor, please, sorry. The gentleman mentioned two timestamps. So question, if those portions are shown to you, Will you be able to identify the

same? Yes,

Your

Honor.

Your Honor, at this juncture, Your Honor, please, the video has already been identified, marked and identified by our previous witness, and it is marked as Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-11 for the prosecution. We move that these two portions with individual timestamps as mentioned be shown to this witness for his identification, Your Honor, please.

Where is the USB,

counsel? We move that we be allowed to unseal the marked exhibit that was presented last time. It's with us. It's with the prosecution.

Kindly unseal the document in the presence of the counsel for respondent.

Witnesses instructed to unseal the USB.

This has been previously marked. So after the unsealing... Council for the Prosecutor and for the Respondent are instructed to kindly accompany each other to the tech booth to make sure it is the same, one and the same USB that will be played.

Kung may bala kayong buksan ulit, huwag niyo na masyadong i-tape na madami.

Para hindi masyadong matagal pag i-unseal.

For the record, this will be timestamps 1 hour 35 minutes to 57 seconds to 1 hour 36 minutes and 10 seconds for the first timestamp, I mean for the first portion. And the second portion is from 1 hour 36 minutes to 52 seconds to 1 hour 36 minutes and 58 seconds.

Gusto

ko tukanggalin yung ulo niya ba.

I realized toxic na yung relationship.

There's one more council, right? Yes, Your Honor. Waiting for the second video consisting

of 6 seconds only, Your Honor, please.

Imagine myself cutting his head.

Okay, thank you so much. Your Honor, please. May I proceed, Your Honor, please?

Counsel, may I proceed? Mr. Witness, what

relation, if any, do those videos have, portions of the videos have, with the video you mentioned earlier?

That's the same video I mentioned, Your

Honor. Okay, thank you so much. Let's proceed. Atty. Lotoc, now, after you discovered these previous statements by the Vice President, what happened next, if any? In relation to the investigation you conducted on the Vice President's statements on November 23, 2024?

Yes, Your Honor. We have also discovered reactions from the recipients, specifically from the President himself, the Speaker of the House, relevant government agencies tasked to secure the life of the President and the national security, Your Honor. Thank

you so much. Let's focus on the President. Kasi it's his head. Ulo ng Presidente.

Let's focus on the precedents. Now, what did he say again in particular?

If I may refer to my notes, sir?

Your Honor, you

may do so. Thank you, Your Honor.

Yes, Your Honor. Among others, quote, Nakakabahala ang mga pahayag na narinig natin itong mga nakaraang araw. Nandiyan ang walang pakundangang pagbumura at ang pagbabanta ng planong ipapatay ang ilan sa atin. If that's how easy it is to plan for the death of a president, how about ordinary citizens? That kind of criminal action should not be overlooked. That is my belief."

Sa naging mga pagbabanta ng bisipresidente laban sa buhay niya, could you just summarize exactly ano ba yung tugon ng former Speaker ng House of Representatives?

Yes, Your Honor. If I remember it right, I think the Speaker issued a statement during the plenary session, November 25, 2024, which was published in the ANC Digital. And then, among others, The former speaker stated that the utterances were dangerous, unprecedented.

Isa itong banta sa demokrasya at sa siguridad ng bansa.

Alright. Now, Mr. Witness, Atty. Lotoc, sinabi mo rin na may mga ahensya ng gobyerno na nagbigay din ng kanilang tugon sa mga pagbabanta ng vice-presidente. If you may, anong mga ahensya na ito?

Yes, Your Honor. For one, the Presidential Communications Office, the Philippine National Police, the National Security Council, and the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

Okay. Let's focus on muna sa Presidential Communications Office. Na ano ba yung statement ng Presidential Communications Office kung alam mo?

If I remember it right, the PCO,

As an active threat. And directed the Presidential Security Command

to,

I think, investigate the matter. As an active threat. It was the Executive Secretary who directed the... Presidential Security Command Sir, based on that statement.

Okay. Now, sinabi mo rin yung Philippine National Police. Yung tanong is kung maalala mo, ano ba yung sinabi ng PNP in response sa naging mga pagbabanta ng vice-presidente sa buhay ng presidente sa kayong dalawa pa?

Your Honor, if I may refer to my notes. Your Honor?

You may do so, Your Honor. You may do so, Mr. Witness.

Thank you, Your Honor.

The Philippine National Police issued a statement relative to the press conference made by the Vice President. The Philippine National Police threats any threat to the safety and security of the President and all public officials with the utmost seriousness. In light of the Vice President Sarah Duterte's recent statement, which directly referenced an assassin contracted to target the President, The PNP recognizes the grave nature of this matter. The safety of the President is a national concern, and any direct or indirect threat to his life must be addressed with the highest level of urgency.

The PNP

used, based on your statement, as the response of the PNP, The PNP used the term assassin in referring to the person contracted by the Vice President to kill the President and two others?

Your Honor, it was not just the PNP. Even the Presidential Communications Office also used the term assassin, Your Honor.

Okay. Now, what about the National Security Council? Ano bang sinabi ng NSA kung alam mo?

Again, Your Honor, if I may refer to my notes.

Pwede na ba?

Your Honor?

Your Honor, may the witness be allowed to refer to his notes once more.

You may do so, Mr. Witness. Thank you,

Your

Honor.

Your Honor, the question was about the statement of the NSC, right? Yes.

Quote, the National Security Council considers all threats to the President of the Philippines as serious. Any and all threats against the life of the President shall be validated and considered a matter of national security. End quote.

Okay. Now, sinabi mo rin na yung Armed Forces of the Philippines, or AFP, nagbigay din ng kanilang response sa naging pagbabanta ng vicepresidente, kung alam mo, tsaka kung maaalala mo. Ano ba yung sinabi ng Armed Forces of the Philippines?

Same,

Your Honor, if I may refer to my notes.

For orderly proceeding, Your Honor, please. I think it's proper for a third decision to ask to be recognized first.

Depends. What is the pleasure of Council for Respondent Attorney season?

We'll just state an observation on the notes.

Counsel, we agreed that only one counsel shall speak. In so far as the presentation of a witness is concerned, this was objected to by the Council for Respondents even if it was asked for by the Council for the Prosecutors.

We will do that, Your Honor. For

the record, we are not objecting but you know, for a properly proceeding, Atty. Sison,

Council, it's okay. The Chair will make a ruling. Atty. Vin Luan can handle that with your permission. Atty. Sison.

Your Honor, I'd just like to share the observation that the witness is reading from notes, from

his notes and not directly from The document that he identified.

And if I may reply to that, Your Honor, to that non-issue, Your Honor, if I may? Yes, Your Honor. Yes, counsel for the prosecution. Your Honor, wala po sa rules na kailangan

na yung

tugon ng isang witness, sinabi niyang notes, dapat based sa isang dokumento. In fact, Your Honor, please, yung iniisip ng ating rules, yung mga notes na ginawa mismo ng witness. For the public, if you're interested, you may look at Rule 130, Section 16 ng Rules of Court. Andun yun. Pupwedeng tingnan ng isang testigo yung notes na ginawa niya. Rule 130, Section 16. Before

I recognize counsel for respondent, Senator Judge Lacson, what is your pleasure, sir? Thank you, Mr. President Officer. This is relevant to the discussion.

The gentleman may proceed and he has two minutes. Yes. You requested to refer to your notes a number of times during your direct examination. Ang tanong ko, are you referring to an investigator's notes or notebook or simply notes?

No, Your Honor. During the investigation, I have copies of the affidavit of investigations that we have.

I ask that question because my understanding of an investigator's notes or notebook, to be credible,

Ito ang

ginawa niyo mismo?

Yes, Your Honor. During the investigation. Thank you for

the clarification. Thank you, Senator Judge Lacson. Noted and entered in the records. Counsel for Respondent, what is your pleasure?

Your Honor, that was a mere manifestation, Your Honor. We just want to put it for the record.

There being no objection, some witness may proceed and answer, or counsel may proceed with his questions.

The Armed Forces of the Philippines. Ano sinabi ng Armed Forces? Are we done? Not yet?

Okay. So, let's go back. Yeah, if I may, Your Honor. Witness

may continue to answer.

Thank you, Your Honor.

On November 23, 2024, General Romeo S. Browner, Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, issued the following statements, quote, The Armed Forces of the Philippines is a professional organization focused on its mandate to protect the people and the state. Our personnel are loyal to the Constitution and the chain of command, unquote. Hindi ko na po binasa lahat, sir. Okay, now.

After you and your team discovered these responses, Atty. Lotoc, what happened next, if any, kung meron mo, tsaka kung alam mo, in relation sa investigation niyo, sa mga statements ng Vice President on that day, November 23, 2024?

We issued subpoena to the media personalities present during the online press conference of November 23, 2024.

For them to appear on December 4, 2024, sir.

You issued a subpoena to the media personalities that you said andun sa media conference na iyon to appear on December 4, 2024. Now, sino ba yung mga media personalities na pinasubpoena ng NBI?

Again, Your Honor, if I may refer to my... You may do so, Mr. Reyes. Thank you, Your Honor.

First to the late Demsi Saidin Reyes of the Philippine Daily Inquirer, and then to Red Whore Marquee J. Mendoza of the Manila Times, Bons Magsambol of Rappler, Ana Rosario Malindo Uy of the Manila Times, Jason Rubrico of the SMNI, and Mikael Flores of the Reuters, Your Honor.

Okay. Now, Mr. Witness, yung tanong now is, ba't kailangang isampinan ng NBI itong mga media personalities na ito na mag-appear sa NBI sa araw na iyon, December 4, 2024?

Your Honor, they were there during the online presscon and they participated the press conference. So, ang tingin namin meron silang personal knowledge kasing nandoon sila at nag-participate po sila kaya... We deemed it proper to issue subpoena on them.

So you said na they were subpoenaed to appear on December 4, 2024 in the NBI. Now, what happened on that day, December 4, 2024, if any, and if you know in relation to the investigation you conducted?

The agent on case reported to me that Mr. Reyes and I think Mr. Magsambol appeared before the Office of the Cybercrime Division and participated in the process of the interview.

Now, how do you know that these two individuals, at least Dempsey Reyes, may his soul rest in peace, and Magsambol appeared before the NBI on that day, December 4, 2024?

Yes, Your Honor. Aside from the fact that the agent in case reported that to me, he showed to me the minutes of meeting wherein the signatures of The late Mr. Reyes and Magsambol were affixed on it, Your Honor.

Okay.

May nakapirma ko sila doon sa minutes of meeting, sir. All

right.

Now, thank

you so much, Atty. Lotoc. Now, Atty. Lotoc, you said that your team interviewed members of the media. You issued subpoena to them and they appeared. Now, what else happened, if any, in relation to the investigation you conducted?

We issued subpoena at testificandum to the vice president herself to shed light in the investigation we are conducting, sir. So you're telling

the public that you, NBI, also issued a subpoena to the vice president? Yes, Your Honor. Proceed, Your Honor. Now, what proof, if any, do you have that in fact the NBI issued a subpoena addressed

to the vice president? We have copy of that subpoena at testificandum dated November 25, 2024, sir.

Now, kung yung subpoena na binigay ng NBI sa vice-presidente may petsang No. 25 taong 2024 ipapakita sa iyo, makikilala mo ba yung dokumentong ito? Opo. Now, we are now in the process of presenting to you a subpoena at testificandum. Dated on even date, December 25, 2024. That is... For

the record,

this is previously marked as Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-4 for the prosecution. Have you perused the same, Atty. Lotto? Yes, Your Honor. Question, what relation, if any, does that document have with the subpoena you mentioned?

This is the same subpoena I mentioned, Sir. Thank you so much. So the NBI issued

a subpoena to the Vice President. Your Honor, can

we just make a comment?

Counsel for the respondents, recognize.

Your Honor,

may we just put on record that Exhibit P-4-4 is a photocopy and it was not the original or the certified.

We

are ready to produce that. That's the next step we are supposed to do. We have a copy of the certified true copy. We invite the defense to check the same for comparison. Your Honor, please.

Counsel for the respondent.

Your Honor, it is a faithful reproduction of the certified true copy, Your Honor.

Noted for the records. Counsel

for the

prosecutors may

proceed. Now, Mr. Witness, we would like to know.

How did the Vice President respond, if any, if at all, and if you know, to the NBI's subpoena issued

to her?

Well, the Vice President did not appear, Your Honor. Instead, she sent her lawyer, Atty. Paul Lawrence Lim, if I'm not mistaken.

Okay,

she did

not appear?

Yes,

sir. Okay, now, question. If you know, if you know, What was the Vice President's reason for failing to appear at the NBI, in the NBI despite the subpoena issued to her?

I think the Vice President in effect was saying there were office matters to tend to so she cannot attend the scheduled subpoena.

How did the respondent, the vice president, inform you that she could not attend the Sampidna because she was attending to, quote, office matters, unquote?

There was a letter, I think, dated November 28, 2024, which was submitted by the council of the vice president, sir.

So the letter, December 20, 2024. Now, kung yung kopya ng letter na yan ipapakita sa'yo, ma-identify mo ba yung letter na ito? Now, we are

in the process of showing you a copy of the letter dated November 28, 2024. Counsel

for the Prosecutor may approach as well as Counsel for the Respondent.

Yes, Your Honor. This is the same letter that I've mentioned.

Your Honor, can I make a manifestation at this point?

The Prosecutor may proceed.

Your Honor, the letter from the Vice President's lawyer is not marked in exhibit.

If the defense will agree, we move that the same be marked as an additional exhibit for the prosecution and the specific marking that we are asking the court to follow is Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-32 for the prosecution, Your Honor, please.

Counsel for the respondent? We have no objection to that, Your Honor.

So ordered. So marked. Thank you so much. Now.

Anong ginawa ng NBI after yung Vice Presidente hindi sumipot sa NBI despite the subpoena kung meron man?

Puntahan natin yung letter na iyan Kung alam mo, ano ba yung sinabi ng NBI sa letter na iyan na pinadala sa Vice President after hindi siya sumipot despite the subpoena sent to her?

Your Honor, the document would speak for itself. No need for the witness to read.

I think the counsel

is— Witness

may answer, if he knows.

Yeah, among others, sir, sinabi ko doon sa letter namin na— Nung December 2, 2024 na ini-inform namin ang Vice Presidente na iniimbestigahan din po namin yung alleged threat against sa kanyang life at sinabi namin na kailangan namin yung kanyang presensya para may makuha kaming information para ho may mapagsimulan kami

doon

sa investigation against threat to her life, Your Honor.

What proof, if any, do you have that the NBI issued another subpoena addressed to the Vice President?

We have that copy of the subpoena dated, if I'm not mistaken, December 2, 2024.

Atty. Lotto, kung yung kopya ng pangalawang subpoena ipapakita sa iyo, ma-identify mo ba? Yes, sir. Now, we are now in the process of showing you that subpoena, the defense may also check. Counsel for

the prosecutor as well as respondent may approach to compare.

And for the record, that second subpoena addressed to the vice president has been previously marked as exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-6 for

the prosecution. That's the same subpoena I mentioned, sir.

Okay, so that's the same subpoena. Do we have any observation from the defense? Counsel for respondent.

The document is a machine copy, Your Honor.

Machine copy.

Your

Honor,

we move that the certified true copy in our possession be compared with the photocopy identified by the witness, Your Honor, please.

Counsel, this has not been marked, right? This has been

marked this time, Your Honor, please. This

has been marked already?

Yes, Your Honor.

Same officer, Rick. Observation, Your Honor, as the last document.

Meaning, it is a photocopy?

It is the same as the photocopy of... The copies are the same, but it is not the original, just a photocopy of the original, Your Honor. That was certified.

Wait, so... I do not get it, Consul.

Your Honor... The other document that the prosecution is showing is a certified copy, Your Honor. So, in other words, it is the same as the photocopy that was previously marked, Your Honor. But certified? Correct, Your Honor.

Noted. Thank you. You may proceed. Now, you also mentioned, Atty. Lotoc, yung isang letter, this time, it's dated December 2, 2024. Now, kung yung letter na iyan ipapakita sa'yo, ma-identify mo ba ito? Yes, sir. Now, we are in the process of showing you a copy of that letter that is previously marked as Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-5, with sub-marking P-Roman numeral 4-5, small letter A. May you peruse the same and answer the question after perusing the document, what relation, if any, does this document have with the one you mentioned?

The same document that I mentioned, sir. Okay, thank you so much. Now, a picture with us. Sa pangalawang sabbina, Your

Honor,

the document again is a photocop, machine copy.

Your Honor, we move that the certified true copy that we have in possession be compared with the photocopy that is marked in exhibit for the prosecution office.

Counsel for Responder is instructed to so view the certified true copy and make the corresponding manifestation of their observation.

Faithful Reproduction of the Certified Copy, Your Honor.

Noted.

Thank you so much. Proceed, Your Honor.

Now, Atty. Lotoc, ano ba yung naging tugon, kung meron man, tsaka kung alam mo, ng Vice Presidente sa pangalawang sabina na in

-issue ng NBI? Yes, Your Honor. The Vice President, again, did not appear, but instead sent her lawyer.

Another letter. Another letter? Yes, Your Honor. Submitted to the Office of the Cybercrime Division. Okay now,

kung alam mo ano ba yung nilalaman ng letrang iyan, yung pangalawang letter ng Vice President in response to the second subpoena ng NBI?

If I remember it right, sinasabi doon we must take the obvious. The NBI is under the... Administrative Supervision ng Secretary of Justice who is an alter ego of the President and the Executive Secretary is the Chief Alter Ego so may narapat daw niya makinig sa kanyang Council at hindi na mag-appear sa subpoena ng NBI. Now, what proof as any do you have of that

letter?

We

have a copy of that letter, Your Honor. Kung yung kopya ng letter na yan ipapakita sa iyo, ma-identify mo ba? Yes, Your Honor. Now, we are showing you a copy of the letter dated December 10, 2024. The question after you peruse to say what relation, if any, does that document have with the letter you mentioned?

The same document that I mentioned, sir.

Your Honor, manifestation, the same letter coming from the Vice President's Council. Ang mga mga

The letter states, if any?

Well, the counsel for the Vice President stated that the Vice President is confident that the NBI will also investigate the alleged threat against her life. 'Yun po 'yung tenor ng letter na 'yon, sir. Now—

eto yung tanong now. You mentioned earlier

That the Vice President stated that she already contracted an assassin to kill the President and the two others. Now, Atty. Lotto. Wait, wait, wait. Not yet done. Not yet done. No question yet.

Please proceed, Council. As the head, as the head of the investigation team,

what was your impression of

the Vice President when she declared, That she already contracted an assassin to

kill the President, the First Lady, and the former Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Objection, Your Honor. Call

for an opinion. Opinion. You may cite the rule, Your Honor, please. And misleading

as well, Your Honor. She never mentioned the word assassin.

Your Honor, may I reply to that, Your Honor, please?

Counsel for the prosecution is recognized.

The term assassin [unclear]. It is the same term used by the PNP and by the PCO. So it's not plucked out of thin air, Your Honor, please. So we have basis for using the term assassin.

But, Your Honor, counsel mentioned that it was VP Sara who mentioned it, and that was phrased in his answer. So we are objecting to that, Your Honor.

With the understanding that the witness will base his answer on his investigation or knowledge insofar as the investigation that he himself conducted and led is concerned, and not as a conclusion of fact and law, the witness may answer.

What was your impression?

Yes, Your Honor. To me, as the chief investigator at that time, the utterance as made by the Vice President was serious.

Serioso, tsaka totoong pagbabanta. Now, what made you say that? Na yung pagbabanta ng vicepresidente ay both Serioso at Totoo

Reactions from several government agencies, sir.

Content and context. Now, exactly, yung tanong is, exactly, exactly, how did you analyze the content and the context of the entire press conference?

We considered several factors, Your Honor, in the analysis of that content and context. Several factors. To be exact,

kung alam mo, ilang factors kinonsider nyo?

At least four. Number one, the delivery or manner in which the utterances were spoken. Number two, the literal meaning of the statement.

Number three,

the nature of the instruction.

Number four, the relationship between the parties. So, four factors. Now,

Atty. Lotoc, let's go to the first factor. Let's go to the first factor. The delivery of the manner in which the threats were spoken. What made you say that the respondent was both serious and real when she uttered those threats?

Based

on his investigation, counsel, he may testify as to that. Witness na yan, Sir.

Yes, Your Honor. The Vice President was furious and fuming mad when she uttered those. Could you repeat it? Furious and?

And fuming mad, Sir. Fuming mad. Furious and fuming mad. Now, what made you say na yung Vice Presidente was both furious, furious, and

fumingly mad? Well, nakita ho namin dun sa video nung nirun ho namin, Your Honor, if I'm not mistaken, I think more or less walong beses ho siyang galit na galit at nagmumura at minumura yung Presidente, si First Lady, and then si former Speaker of the House, sir. Walong beses? If I'm not mistaken, more or less, sir.

Now, and then you're referring to the video. Now, in what particular portions of the video, okay, Did the Vice President hurl invectives or, sa Tagalog, pagmumura kung sa Cebuano pamalikas kung hawaray-waray buyayaw? Mga ilang beses? Walo? In what particular portions?

Your Honor, if I may refer to my notes. You

may do so.

Thank you, Your Honor.

In the interest of time, while the councils are doing that, I move that the previously marked and identified exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-10, which is the flash drive containing the video of that press conference, be unsealed in the presence of councils from both sides.

You may proceed. And

then you may now answer, Mr. Witness, anong mga timestamps ba ito? Your Honor,

from timestamp? 53 minutes to 27 seconds and 53 minutes to 39 seconds. So

53 minutes 27 seconds to 53 minutes 39 seconds. The second time stamp if you may?

54 minutes to 03 seconds and 54 minutes to 08 seconds.

54 minutes 03 seconds to 54 minutes 08 seconds. That's the

second time stamp. What about? The next timestamp if you know?

55 minutes to 42 seconds and 56 minutes to 07 seconds.

55 minutes 42 seconds to 56 minutes 06 seconds. What about the fourth timestamp if you know?

58 minutes to 38 seconds up to 58 minutes to 47 seconds 58

minutes 38 seconds to 58 minutes to 47 seconds what about the fifth time stop if you know um

one hour zero two minutes and 25 seconds one hour zero two minutes and 32 seconds sir one hour zero

two minutes to 25 seconds to one hour zero two minutes 32 seconds what about the next the sixth time stop if you know um

one hour

05 minutes and 08 seconds up to 1 hour, 05 minutes and 31 seconds. 1 hour, 05

minutes, 08 seconds to 1 hour, 05 minutes, 31 seconds. What about the last timestamp, Mr. Witness?

1 hour, 08 minutes and 43 seconds. And in 1 hour, 08 minutes and 54 seconds, Your Honor.

1 hour, 08 minutes, 43 seconds to 1 hour, 08 minutes, 54 seconds. Your Honor, we move that those seven timestamps identified by the witness be shown in sequence, Your Honor, please.

So ordered, counsel for the prosecutors will kindly give the flash drive to be unsealed by the witness. As witnessed by counsel for the respondents thereafter.

For council of the parties to kindly accompany each other to the tech booth so that the USB may be played with respect to the specified timestamps of the witness.

I think we

have two more.

Gusto ko lang magtrabaho. Gusto ko lang tapusin niyo ng show niyo sa House of Representatives para makabalik na kami.

I

think we have two more.

I think

that will be the last. That will be the last council. That's the seven timestamps. Let me confirm. Atty. Magalyon.

Okay. We have one more. We have two more round, please. I was told we have two more time stops. Two more. Thank you.

Nakangampanya tayo. Takasakay tayo sa aeroplano. Magkatabi tayo. Nagre-reklamo ka. Putang ina ka. Walang pera.

And the

last one.

Maalis mo man ako sa presidential race, hindi pa rin ikaw ang presidente. Tingin ako. Walang bubotos niyo. Please lang.

Wala.

So, Your Honor, those were the seven timestamps, portions of the video where the Vice President hurled invectives and profanities. Now the question is, may I proceed, Your Honor? Counsel, to clarify, the

Vice President hurled invectives period, not necessarily against the three officials mentioned. Most of them were against the three

officials, Your Honor, please.

I only counted or heard one or two. Out of the seven, I heard Representative Chua, but he's not one of the subject matters of this case. But just for the record, does the witness confirm that? Out of the seven timestamps, there are approximately two or three that mentioned either all three or one of the top officials. Would that be correct, Mr. Witness?

I think more than that, sir, if you can see the context. Make your

voice

louder. Louder.

If I'm not mistaken, I think five times referring to either Martin Romaldez or Liza Marcos or the president.

The rest were either congressmen or a particular congressman.

If I'm not mistaken, sir.

Now,

Mr. Witness, itong mga seven timestamps kung saan nagmumura, nagmumura yung vicepresidente. Why? Is this a factor in classifying her threats as serious and

real? Yes, Your Honor. It's very much a factor because we want to establish the intent of the Vice President and that intent is crucial in our investigation. We want to determine whether those utterances made by the Vice President

So what was your conclusion? Your Honor. So what was your conclusion? Was it serious or real?

Yeah, Your Honor. Okay, serious and real. Let's go to factor number two. So two out of four factors now. Sinabi mo 'yung literal meaning, utterances of the Vice President, literal meaning. Why is this a factor in your conclusion na seryoso at totoo 'yung pagbabanta ng Vice Presidente?

The Vice President had already contracted a person to kill the President, Liza Marcos, and the former Speaker, Your Honor.

Siguro, so the public will understand, I want you to answer in Tagalog. Ba't mahalaga sa inyo, sa imbestigasyon n'yo, na 'yung pagkukontrata ng tao na papatay sa Pangulo, sa kanyang asawa, nangyari ito bago pa man 'yung press conference? Ba't mahalaga sa imbestigasyon n'yo 'yan?

Yes, Your Honor. Basically, it's indicative of intent that the utterance was deliberately made by the Vice President, and it really shows serious, actual, and real threat.

Atty. Lotoc, let's go to the third factor. Yung third factor is now sinasabi mo, yung nature ng instruction. Now, could you tell the public and the court, ano bang ibig sabihin ng factor number three, nature of the instruction?

Yes, Your Honor. In those utterances, the Vice President said, wag kang tumigil hanggat hindi mo sila mapapatay. It shows persistence on the part of the Vice President that she was

It

is alarming

from the point of view of law enforcement agencies.

Now, in Tagalog, if you may, ba't mo nasabing nakakaalarma? Nakakaalarma 'yung sinabi ng Vice Presidente?

Well, Your Honor, puwede hong mag-take advantage 'yung ibang grupo diyan, ibang individual. God forbid may mangyari sa Vice Presidente for one reason or the other. Mati-trigger ho ngayon 'yung instruction. And then, papatayin ngayon, God forbid again, ang Presidente, Liza Marcos, ang former Speaker. And, in fact, even 'yung triggering na phase na 'yun, puwedeng mag-take advantage doon 'yung ibang grupo, thinking na pag in-assassinate natin ang tatlo, ang sisisihin ang Vice President. So marami hong anggulo, Your Honor. Para sa amin sa law enforcement, medyo magiging disorder, magiging chaotic, magiging anarchy 'yung society pag hindi siya na-address. 'Yun po 'yung sa amin as investigator, sir.

But was she not only joking, Atty.

Lotoc?

Jackson, leading, Your Honor.

There's basis to that, Your Honor?

Sustained,

Now. Now. Let's proceed,

Mr. Witness. So far, you mentioned, ito yung mga factor. Manner, literal meaning, nature of the

instruction. Ano pa yung fourth factor kung alam mo?

The relationship between the parties, meaning the relationship between the vice president and the president.

Now,

what about the fourth factor? Why is it significant to investigation?

Well, in one of the utterances made by the vice president, she characterizes the relationship with the president as toxic. If I'm not mistaken, at least three times niya binigyan siyang term ng toxic, referring to the relationship between her and the president, sir.

Now, what were your reasons, if any, that made you conclude na nasabi na ng vice president that toxic yung relationship niya between her and the president?

Objection calls for an opinion. Your Honor.

Investigation. Witness may answer. Part of his investigation.

Well, una, yung resignation niya as Secretary ng Department of Education.

Pangalawa, yung utterances niya noong October 18, noong sinabi niya na, I realize toxic na itong relationship.

Gusto kong tanggalin yung ulo niya ba? And then I imagine myself cutting his head.

What else,

if any?

The reaction of the recipient of those utterances, Your Honor. The reaction from the President himself. So

the reaction from the President himself. Now, you already mentioned kanina ano yung reaction ng President. Yung tanong na ato ni Lotto is, why did you consider? Yung reaction ng mga recipients ng pagbabanta, kagaya ng President. Let's focus on the President. Ba't nyo kinonsider yung reaction nila?

Well, we want to establish whether the recipient of those utterances felt intimidated by those statements or did they took it serious and actual threat.

Material sa amin yun, Your Honor, if only to establish the mens rea. Mens

rea ng krimen. Now, let's focus on the President. Let's focus on the President. Ito yung premise now. Based on your investigation, what was your impression of the President based on his reaction? Was he intimidated?

Well, yung opening statement ng Presidente, ang sabi niya, nakakabahala. Ang mga narinig natin itong mga nakaraang araw. Ito 'y

isang kriminal na pagtatangka. Papalagan ko ito. Yes, Your Honor. The President took the threat by the Vice President as serious

and real. Now, Mr. Witness, aside from yung reaction ng mga recipients, we focus on the President. Ano pa yung ibang mga factors na kinonsider nyo kung meron pa man?

Yes, Your Honor. We find it, this is from the point of view of the investigator, we find it disturbing when we tried to compare the utterances made in October 18 and the utterances made in November 23.

May nakita kami doon at least tatlo o apat na medyo, sabi ko nga, disturbing from the point of view namin.

Disturbing? Tatlo o apat na disturbing na?

Utterances. Now, let's go to that. You said you compared the utterances on October 18 and November 23. Sabi mo, you found at least three or four disturbing statements. Tama ba? Now, ano ba 'yung three statements na ito?

Your Honor, we are trying to establish the patterns and the consistencies of those utterances. For instance, noong October 18, ang sabi niya is,

Walang number one ang Pilipinas na ito. Para sa akin, number two lamang ito. Walang number one. And then we compared it in November 23. Ang sabi niya, nireiterate niya, I do not recognize anybody above me. That's number one, Your Honor. The number two,

ang

sabi niya noong October 18, hindi marunong maging presidente yung nakaupo. Kasalanan ko ba yun? And then we compared it in November 23. Ang sabi niya doon, This country will go to hell because that person who's sitting, sabi niya is, doesn't know how to be a president and who is a liar. Then number three, ang sabi niya sa October 18, meron akong limang impeachable offense na alam kay BBM pero papasa ba dyan sa house? Siyempre hindi. Then i-compare namin yung November 23. Ang sabi niya doon is he was lying through his teeth para makuha lang yung voto ng mga tao and then nagmura na siya P.I. Ka, BBM, Lisa Marcos, and Martin Romaldes, Your Honor. What

do you mean by P.I.?

Putang ina, sir.

Okay. You said that you found these three comparisons disturbing. Now, these three, ano yung significance ng three comparisons na ito sa investigasyon niyo? Kung meron man.

Yes, Your Honor. Based on these patterns and consistencies in the utterances made by the Vice President,

it

appears that these statements have tendency to steer up the people against the government, have tendency to disturb the peace of the community, Have tendency to undermine the peace and order, the public peace and order, sir.

Now, Mr. Witness, given all these findings, sinabi mo seryoso tsaka totoo yung mga pagbabanta ng Vice Presidente, anong ginawa ng division mo kung meron man

in

relation to the investigation?

We executed, Your Honor, affidavit of investigation and we recommended criminal charges.

3 counts for grave threats and 1 count for inciting prostitution, sir.

Your Honor, now, na-mention mo yung affidavit of investigation. For clarity, anong date ng affidavit of investigation na sabi mo?

February 10, 2024. Ah, 2025, sir.

February 10. Kung yung affidavit of investigation and the annexes ipapakita sa'yo, ma-identify mo ba yung affidavit na ito? Yes, sir. I'm showing you now a copy of the affidavit of investigation. May page February 10, 2025. That is previously marked for the prosecution as Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-3. You peruse the documents and access. I move that the defense be allowed to peruse the same. And the question is, what do these documents have? What relation, if any, do these documents have with the documents you mentioned?

Council for both parties may approach.

Manifestation, Your Honor.

Council for the Respondent may proceed.

Your Honor, we'd just like to manifest, Your Honor, that the marked document, permanently marked by the prosecution, does not contain any annexes. And the other set of documents that he is comparing it to has affidavit annexes, your honor.

I can reply to that, your honor, please. Counsel for the prosecution

will please reply.

Number one, the affidavit of investigation, the annexes thereto, ay makikita yung mga annexes, most of them. As separate documents that have been pre-marked. Ulitin ko, yung mga hinahanap ng depensa, ng mga annexes sa affidavit and investigation, nasa record ng Senado yan, because na-marka separately, because they have been identified separately also by the previous witness. I hope that satisfies. Council, what does Council

for the Respondents say?

Your Honor, is that an admission that

The affidavit of investigation was stripped of its annexes.

Your Honor, if I may, ang klaro namang sinabi ko. Can I reply to that, Your Honor, please? Sir, I would like to clarify the

matter instead. Are all the annexes listed and identified in the footnotes of the affidavit of investigation? Marked or pre-marked by the

prosecution? I can answer that. Most of them, Your Honor, please. And I can identify ano yung mga hindi na-marked saka yung reason. So most, not all? Yes, Your Honor, please.

And for the record, that the affidavit of investigation that the witness is identifying and that you have marked does not contain any of the annexes mentioned in the affidavit of investigation without prejudice, of course, to the annexes that you already marked.

Yes, Your Honor.

And identified by either this or other witnesses?

Yes, Your Honor. Not attached specifically to the affidavit but found in the same record of the witness. Not attached to the document

that the witness is identifying right now? Yes, Your Honor. Does that satisfy the counsel for this matter? Your Honor, we're

not objecting as to how they marked it. We're just manifesting it for the record. That

it's not

there?

Yes. So noted. Witness may answer.

Yeah, this is the same document that I... Okay.

You have? You have?

Your Honor, this is the same document that I mentioned.

Okay. May I proceed, Your Honor, please?

You may proceed.

Now. Atty. Lotoc, ah, sorry, sorry.

Just to manifest, Your Honor, that

again,

the comparison, Your Honor, was made with the certified true copy, not the original, Your Honor.

Thank you. So noted. Thank you so much.

Please proceed, counsel, for the procedure. Atty. Lotoc, sa pahing ng 28 ng Affidavit of Investigation, may makikita ang perma sa ibabaw ng pangalang S.A. Jeremy Lotoc. Makikita mo ba yan? Yung tanong, kaninong perma ito?

This is my signature, sir.

And sa page 29 ng affidavit, may makikitang pirma sa ibabaw ng pangalang S.A. Jeremy Lotoc. Kaninong pirma ba ito?

Again, sa akin, pirma ho ito, sir.

Your Honor, at this juncture, the prosecution moves that the two signatures of the witness be marked as Exhibit P-Roman numeral 4-3-1, that's for the first, and the other one P-Roman numeral 4-3-2. Reason is these signatures have not yet been marked in evidence, Your Honor, please.

No objections to that

Your Honor. Thank you so much. Now, may I proceed, Your Honor?

You may proceed.

Atty. Lotoc, in paragraphs 202 and 203, Ang naging answer ng Vice President dated May 25, 2026 to the Articles of Impeachment, which document forms part of the record of these courts.

Sinasabi ng Vice President na

she was merely exercising her

freedom of expression. Freedom of expression, sinabi niya. That's protected, yung pagbabanta niya. Are you aware of this defense? Yes, Your Honor.

Atty. Lotto, as

a lawyer and as the head of the NBI Cybercrime Division, that's the basis, Your Honor. Do you agree with this?

Objection, Your Honor. Calls for an opinion. This is not part of the investigation. She's

a lawyer, Your Honor. It

does call for an opinion and it's not part of the investigation, Counsel.

Kindly reform your question. I know where you're getting at but kindly reform your question. Okay.

Your Honor, Atty. Lotak, you are aware of the defense that it's a freedom of expression. Okay.

In your investigation, did you consider this, if at all, and if any?

Objection, Your

Honor,

Your Honor.

Witness may answer.

Yes, of course, Your Honor. We consider that whether mag-fall fault ba siya sa confines ng freedom of speech. And what was your finding? That's the

basis now.

What was your finding? Well, una, three reasons, Your Honor, if okay lang.

Una, when the second highest official of the land openly and publicly uttered that she had already contracted a person to kill, the highest official of the land, the First Lady and the former Speaker, and that she instructed the person to be relentless in killing them, we

failed to see any amount of freedom of speech in that utterance, Your Honor. That's number one. Number two, we talked to ourselves.

If we allow the argument that it is within the bounds of freedom of speech, if we allow that to become the norms of our society, then who would...

Patayin mo si senador ganito pag itong nangyari. Patayin mo si congressman ganito pag ganito ang nangyari. Patayin mo si justice ganito pag ganito ang nangyari. So imagine, Your Honor, the anarchy, the disorder, and the chaos it would bring to our country. And number three, Your Honor, as a lawyer and being in the law enforcement, freedom of speech Protects lawful expression, but it does not protect utterances that satisfies the elements of a criminal offense. Like this one, Your Honor.

Satisfies the elements of a criminal offense like this one. Ito yung tanong daw, Atty.

Lotto, based

on your finding.

Based on your affidavit of investigation, did

the Vice President commit

a crime? Objection,

Your Honor. Leading and calls for conclusion of law. Based

on his investigation, let the witness answer.

Sustained, but the Presiding Officer will ask the question to the witness.

Based on your investigation, Atty. Lotto, Was there enough basis to file a criminal complaint as you did for the crimes you charged the Vice President with prima facie evidence only? Not as to whether or not she indeed committed it or not because only a court of justice can determine that.

Yes, Your Honor. Based on our findings, we believe that... The Vice President committed the crime of grave threats and inciting persecution.

Only insofar as satisfying the requirement of prima facie evidence sufficient to file a case.

Prima facie evidence with reasonable certainty of conviction. Yes,

that would be a more complete description of what you have to comply with before you can file a case.

Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Po.

Counsel may proceed.

Thank you so much. Let's continue. Atty. Lotoc. Kita magpapadayon. Hinanatod mga pakianang. Hinaimaw pagbaton. Hinanakot mga pakianang.

Your Honor, may I be allowed to make a manifestation? As I understand, only Filipino and English may be used, because I cannot understand what he was saying. Can we ask that he state his statement in Filipino or English?

Your Honor, the Filipino language encompasses all the languages and dialects. It includes our very own Waray-Waray.

But, counsel, the rules state only Filipino and English. I will let it go once in a while, but not each time.

We will submit, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

You may proceed, counsel for the prosecutors. Proceed.

Marceau Through the letter said that the vice president was confident in your office's assurance that the alleged threats to her were also being investigated. Malala mo sagot mo yun doon? Yes, Your Honor. Now, what did the NBI do if any on the alleged threats? This time sinasabi niya to her, to the vice president kung meron man.

Yes, Your Honor. We started the investigation on the alleged threat against the life of the Vice President.

You started. So, what was the result? If any, if at all, if you know, to that investigation?

Well, Your Honor, the fact that we issued a letter dated December 2, 2024, we informed the Vice President that we are investigating on that alleged threat against her life and that we want... Any information that would give us any investigative lead on that matter, Your Honor? Unfortunately, the Vice President did not appear. So wala ho kaming makitang pagsisimulan na imbistigahan.

May nakita kami sa I think 75 PNP personnel as far as the security of the Vice President is concerned.

If you know, if you know, ilan ba yung natira? Sa Vice Presidential Security and Protection Group, if you know. Pagkatapos ma-remove yung sinasabi mong 75 personnel of that VP-SPG, if you know.

Well, based on, if I'm not mistaken, based on the record, the COA record, I think more or less 335 security personnel. Kung di ako nagkakamalay, base doon sa...

335 personnel protecting a single person, the Vice President? Based on

that record, Your Honor. Based on the news, yeah. 335.

Last point, Your Honor, please.

Wind up, Counsel. Yes, Your Honor. Now, Mr. Witness, you mentioned earlier that your office considered in its investigation In the November 23, 2024 online briefing, na aside kay respondent, yung vice-presidente, tsaka yung mga media personalities, okay, na nabanggit mo, sino pa, kung meron pa, yung nandun sa online briefing ngayon, kung alam mo?

Well, 'yung pinakaunang part ng video, si Atty. Zuleika Lopez.

Zulaika Lopez. Now, yung tanong, Mr. Witness, ano yung na-observe mo kung meron man, okay, about Atty. Zulaika Lopez during that online media briefing?

Objection vague, Your Honor.

Oh, Your Honor, what's vague? Okay. Witness is smart enough to answer if he knows. Witness may answer.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Well,

based on that video, it appears na nagko-complain si Atty. Zulaika. I'm referring doon sa paglipat niya from H.O.R. to women correction facilities, I think. And then yung health issue niya. So parang kinukomplain din niya na yun. At yung nangyari sa kanyang pagka-health in custody sa H.O.R.

All right. Now, Atty. Lotoc, what significance, if any, do these complaints ni Atty. Lopez have in your investigation on the threats made by the Vice President in that online media briefing?

Yes, Your Honor. We take that into account. Tiningnan namin 'yung sitwasyon, 'yung issue ni Atty. Zuleika. But when we see the bigger picture, taking all the pieces of the puzzle, una, it has nothing to do with the Vice President contracting a person because even before Zuleika Lopez appeared in that video, the Vice President had already contracted a person to kill the President and Liza Marcos and the former Speaker. And when we consider all the facts and circumstances, the instance where Atty. Zuleika was complaining does not diminish, it does not alter, it does not affect the totality of the findings that we have in our investigation, sir.

Senator

Judge, is counsel for the prosecutors done?

Atty. Ligutan, are you done? Yes, sir. You're done? Before cross-examination, Chair would like to recognize, with the permission of Senator Judge J.V., Sen. Judge Bam Aquino had earlier sought recognition. Shea will recognize him first. Thereafter, Sen. Judge Tulfo Irwin. Thereafter, Sen. Judge Ejercito and then Sen. Judge Ontiveros. Sen. Judge Aquino is recognized. You have two minutes, sir.

Yes. Maraming salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Atty. Lotoc, meron pa po bang ibang grupo sa NBI ang nag-imbestiga doon po sa Mga utterances ni Vice President Sara Duterte noong November 23 to 24?

During our time, insofar as the Cybercrime Division is concerned, yung Cybercrime Division, Your Honor, and the team, that was yung binuo ni former Judge, Director Judge. So kayo lang po? At that time, Sir. Hindi ko na po alam ngayon kung sino yung mga team na, kasi nalipat na po ako sa...

Yung

tanong ko po kasi ay nakatukoy dun sa taong nakausap o sinasabing nakontrata ni Vice President Sara Duterte para patayin yung Presidente, First Lady at former Speaker. So tinuloy niyo po ba yung investigasyon para mahanap ang taong ito?

Well, aside from the fact, Your Honor, na nag-i-issue kami ng subpoena sa Vice President para makakuha ng information, kasi we need a validated information, we need a confirmed information. Nung in-issue namin ng subpoena yung mga media personalities, bawat isa sa

kanila na nag-appear, tinanong din po namin, nandoon ka ba nung sinabi ito ng Vice President? Hindi

ko po tinatanong kung

sinabi ba ito o hindi. Dahil may witness

rin po tayo nung nakaraang linggo na nagsabing nasabi nga ito at napanood naman natin po

lahat. Ang tanong ko, tinuloy niyo ba yung investigasyon para matukoy ang taong ito?

Nagtanong kami, Your Honor, we tried to elicit information both from those people who have personal knowledge during the online press conference.

Unfortunately, wala akong kaming ma-establish na validated information na confirmed. In fact hanggang ngayon nag-aantay po kami. Hindi yung katulad dito sa nangyari may apparent commission of the crime dahil nandiyan yung big U eh. So ang

ibig niyo pong sabihin bilang NBI hindi niyo nahanap yung taong ito pero literal niyo itong sabi niyo literal itong pag-assess niyo dun sa statement dahil ito mismo yung nasabi ng Vice President.

Well, Your Honor, if If the second highest official of the land, sinabi yan, hindi ho biro yan. Medyo mabigat ho yan. At yung pagkasabi pa niya na may kasamang galit at mga pagmumura. We took it very seriously, Honor.

Alright, I have a question for the defense. Sa lahat ng mga sagot ninyo, Atty. Vin Luan, parang hindi ko nakita na tinanggi ng inyong kliyente o ng depensa. Na may nakausap ang vice-presidente na tao para gawin yung mga bagay na ito. Tama ba? Wala ito sa mga sagot ninyo? We deny

that, Your Honor.

You deny?

That is not accurate, Your Honor, and we will present evidence or counter-evidence. Okay,

so let me clarify. Sa lahat ng sagot ninyo so far, hindi pa ninyo tinatanggi ito, pero in your time presenting evidence, you will deny?

Ang nabanggit doon ay freedom of expression. Was there an exact statement there na hindi totoo?

We

maintain our position that we denied it, Your Honor. It is there in our answer.

General denial and there were also specific denials.

Okay. We'll take a look, Mr. Presiding Officer. Hanapin natin ito. And if I may come back to this once we take a look at the records, Mr. Presiding Officer.

The gentleman may do so at the appropriate time. With the permission of Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo, since nakatayo na po si Senator Judge Ejercito, ang papaunahin ko ng bumuna siya. Senator Judge Tulfo, rather Ejercito is recognized. You have two minutes, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

May we know if the NBI has the authority to issue subpoena against impeachable officials? Kasi kanina po sa mga pinresent kanina, subpoena po ang inyong pinadala sa Vice President instead of a mere invitation. Yan lang po. Clarify ko lang po.

Yes, Your Honor. Under Republic Act 10867, the NBI has authority to issue subpoena. As a matter of fact, the case involving the Vice President falls under Section 5, Paragraph G, which the NBI has primary jurisdiction to undertake investigation, Your Honor.

Likewise, for the information, may we know what constitutes a grave threat that will prompt the NBI to conduct an investigation as compared to a light threat? What are the elements that are needed to be present to be considered a grave threat.

Well, for grave threat, Your Honor, if naalala ko siya, if a person threatens another person with the infliction upon the latter's person, property, or honor, or that of the latter's family with a wrong Atty. Giorgio R. Or

with any wrong, amounting to a crime, if that threat is with condition or without condition or with monetary consideration, yun po yung kabuan sa grave threat.

May kondisyon? Or walang kondisyon?

The crime of grave threat, Your Honor, can be committed with or without condition. With or without

condition.

So as an investigator, have you ever investigated and filed a complaint for grave threats apart from this one? Again, Your Honor? As an investigator, have you filed any case or investigated and filed a case for grave threats against anyone aside from this one, excluding this one?

I

think me, nag-start po kasi ako as counter-terrorism and then organized crime group and then cybercrime.

Wala akong maalala, Your Honor, kundi ito lang. I mean, so far as my being in the NBI is concerned, Your Honor.

Ah, so ito lamang yung ano, ito pala yung kaso na naimbestigahan niyo concerning greed threats, yun o?

I think yung iba, may mga na-investigahan, Your Honor. Pero again, sabi ko, yung sa sarili ko po, yung experience ko from counter-terrorism hanggang sa Organized Transnational Crime Group hanggang sa Cybercrime Division, ang naalala ko lang, Your Honor, kasi matagal na ho yun eh, kung ano yung nasa record, I think itong great threats na to is, pag hindi first time, Atty. Dung ko lang na-experience.

Gano'ng katagal kayong parte nitong Cybercrime Division? Bukay na

lipat? Since 2018, Your Honor. Nagsimula ako bilang Investigation Agent. And then 2022, I was designated as Chief of the Digital Forensic Laboratory Division. And then 2023, designated as Chief of the Cybercrime Division, Sir.

So, more than five years kayong nandito sa Cybercrime Division ng NBA? Opo. That's all, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Judge Erick Soto. Senator Judge Tulfo Irwin is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

Thank you, Mr. President or Presiding Officer. I'd like to direct my clarificatory question to the witness on the stand, Mr. Presiding Officer. Atty. Jeremy Lontoc, What findings, if any, convince the NBI the motive of the respondent to kill the President and two other people? Meron pong bang kayong nakitang motibo? Kasi maaari pong sabihin lang nung isang tao sa sobrang galit niya. Napag-usapan na po kanina yan, di ba? Spur of the moment. Pero did you find any motive? Bakit niya po gagawing patayin ang Pangulo?

Yes, Your Honor. As I've said before, when we take into consideration all the facts and circumstances surrounding that issue, nagkaroon ng hindi magandang relasyon yung dalawa.

Nagbato na ang vicepresidente ng mga salitang mabibigat laban sa presidente.

Pinapakita doon sa October 18 na toxic na nga yung relationship nila. Galit na galit si Sarah dahil sinasabi ng vicepresidente is politically motivated yung pag-attack sa kanya. And then at the same time, pinagtutulungan siya ng buong gobyerno. So, then na-trigger ho yun, if my memory serves me right, nung incident nangyari noong 23 November 2024.

So parang nagpatong-patong na siya, convolution ng iba't ibang issue. So nakita ho namin, talagang galit ang Vice President sa Presidente.

Okay, so you saw that the Vice President is very angry, right? Galit po siya. Did the investigation uncover any evidence that the respondent had taken steps to carry out these threats or these statements that she made in public and online? Did you have or did you uncover any evidence?

Your Honor, insofar as the Cybercrime Division is concerned, we focused on the investigation on the alleged grave threats and inciting to sedition. Ngayon, pagdating doon whether or not merong na-execute na o may inutusan, I think ang makakasagot po niyan, Your Honor, 'yung aming Director, kasi sa kanya po 'yung pool ng information. But at the same time, 'yung jurisdiction na 'yan, nasa Intelligence Service po namin. Kami ho, nasa Investigation Service. So insofar as the NBI Cybercrime Division is concerned at that time, naka-focus po kami sa grave threats and inciting to sedition. But insofar as whether meron na bang in-engage ang Vice President, jurisdiction ho 'yan ng aming Intelligence Service, and maybe ang makakasagot niyan 'yung aming Director kasi siya po 'yung—

answer that because he is the recipient of a pool of information from different—

You

mean inciting to sedition will be answered by the director, is that correct? Kasi parang hindi po natalakay kanina in inciting to sedition, is it?

Well, Your Honor, inciting to sedition, in our investigation, we were able to establish that those utterances from 18 October 2024, November 23, 2024, and other facts and circumstances, even the November 26, 2024, we believed that those utterances have a tendency, Your Honor, to stir up the people, to go against the government, to disturb the peace of the community, and to undermine public safety and public order. I think those are the elements of inciting to sedition, Your Honor.

I have two questions, Mr. Presiding Officer. So you're saying they're intertwined: killing the President and then inciting the people to revolt against the government? They're intertwined, is that what you're saying?

Based on our findings.

Based on your findings.

What could be the motive of the vice president inciting people to sedition, to revolt against the government, when in fact she will be the next president of the republic? She's been saying and everybody knows and she's been claiming. Why do you think? Did you look deeper? Why incite to sedition?

In fact, you're the vice president. Usually, in our country, usually, Mr. Witness, the vice president would run for presidency. What could be the motive?

Well, Your Honor, what we have established is the fact that the relationship between the two were already hostile. And what we established is the fact that the vice president has committed great threats and inciting to sedition.

That is our focus, Your Honor. Insofar as the deeper motive, I have

no personal knowledge. All

right. Well, I'm running out of time. Can you identify the strongest piece of evidence which you relied in deciding to file these cases before the Department of Justice? And what is the status of this case, Mr. Witness?

Well, Your Honor, the piece of evidence that we attached or we incorporated in our investigation is sufficient and has satisfied the requirements of the quantum of evidence required which is prima facie evidence. With reasonable certainty of conviction, and the fact, Your Honor, that the Department of Justice has issued certification stating that your referral, your transmittal, has complied all the elements of the crime charge and therefore good for preliminary investigation.

What is the status of the case, Mr. Witness? It's ongoing, Your Honor,

if I remember correctly. It's ongoing, Your Honor.

One very, very quick question, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Do you

think at this point you have an airtight case against the respondent? I

believe so, yes, Your Honor. Otherwise, the Department of Justice would not issue a certification stating to the effect na kompleto ang elements namin, na nakuha namin yung requirement, at ready na siya for preliminary investigation.

Thank you, Mr. Witness. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Thank you, Senator Judge Tulfo. Senator Judge Ontiveros, Senator Judge Villanueva, and thereafter, we pause for a 10-minute break.

You

may proceed, ma'am. You have two minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

Atty. Lotoc?

Yes, Your Honor.

In the affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025, the NBI recommended that grave threats and inciting to sedition be filed against

the vice president. Could it be due to those cases that were just brought out of emotion or there was an intense trigger that led to that?

I don't think, Your Honor, kasi wala naman sa elements ng grave threats yung situation na iyon.

As long as we were able to satisfy the elements for grave threats, Your Honor, and when the Department of Justice certifies na kumpleto yung elemento doon,

No, Your Honor. Hindi ho yan mag-matter dun sa findings namin.

At yung sinabi po ninyong elements of grave threats, yun po yung apat na inanumerate nyo kanina. Ano pong elements of grave threats?

Yes, Your Honor. Number one, that a person threatened to inflict another person.

On the latter's person, owner of property, or that of the latter's family with any wrong. That's the first element. The second element, that wrong amounts to a crime. Then the third element is my demand for money or my condition in imposed.

In our investigation, mayroon hong tatlong acts para makumit yung great threats. Base doon sa tatlong elements na sinabi ko, the offender have complied with the threat na sinabi niya, the offender hindi niya na comply yung threat na sinabi niya or yung pangatlong act, yung walang condition yung threat na yon.

Two times you mentioned the word condition, Atty. Lotoc. I will ask that later. In DOJ, there is a criteria of reasonable certainty of conviction before filing a case. Yes, Atty. In NBI, what is the procedure you follow before recommending a case?

Well, sinusunog din ho namin yung quantum of evidence na prima facie evidence with reasonable certainty of conviction. Kaya ho, kung makikita niyo yung yung pong aming processes o yung phases, yung pang last po niya is legal evaluation. Meaning, pag meron na ho kaming conclusion bago ho namin ito i-submit sa Department of Justice, We have

a referral from the legal division. We are helping our legal experts. They are the ones evaluating. They will qualify if the requirements are satisfied

and if they can be submitted to the Department of Justice for purposes of preliminary investigation, ma'am.

Thank you, Atty. No matter how you approximate it.

Yes,

Your Honor. And that is on the basis of our cherished principle, the two-pillar rule in investigation, thoroughness and legality, Your Honor.

All right. Salamat po.

Eto, in principle, kailangan po ba ng patunay na may Kinoontratang asasin para maituring na grave threats ang mga sinabi.

Well, Your Honor, in so far as the crime of grave threat is concerned, hindi po iyon kailangan.

Alright.

Speaking of condition, kanina na binanggit niyo dalawang beses. Posible po ba ang grave threats kahit may kondisyon ang banta? Ibig sabihin yung kapag ito nangyari sa akin, ito ay mga gawin mo?

Very

much possible, Your Honor. As I have said, grave threats can be committed with or without condition. As a matter of fact, meron akong naalala ng isang case, SPO2 Jamaica versus Atty. Bangot. Ang sabi huto ni SPO2 Jamaica, if I lose my job, I will break your head or I will So it's for us, it's a kind of event-based condition na matitrigger yung execution and threat pag nangyayari yung event. But then when the Supreme Court decide, nag-decided Supreme Court, ito sabi niya, the threat was absolute. So it's

absolute

yung threat, you know, hindi conditional. So parang ganito akin sa situation dito, meron siyang sort of event-based condition. If the event happens, the offender will now be

triggered by the threat that was uttered by the offender, Your Honor. So,

we can say that there is jurisprudence because you can see a correlation in the case of the rule of SC-90PO-2-Jamaca and the case

of

the Vice President. Yes,

Your Honor.

Alright. Last question, Atty. Lotoc. As an attorney, as a general rule, when can we say that freedom of speech

is beyond free speech and becomes a grave threat or inciting to sedition?

Well, we consider the two tests. Number one, I'm not

a big cash owner, but it's like

If I may, Your Honor, just to refer my notes.

Kindly turn on the mic. Witness may

do

so. Yes.

Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor.

We consider, Your Honor, the clear and present danger rule and the dangerous tendency rule. But among the two, the dangerous tendency rule, meaning if If the speech would have a tendency to create chaos or to create illegal acts, then that should be restricted. Pag may tendency ho na magiging ganon ang resulta.

So, huli po, Atty., masasabing bang may parang spectrum? Pwedeng nagsisimula?

Thank you

noted and entered into the records senator judge Villanueva you may have you have two minutes sir you may proceed thank

you president presiding officer uh just a few questions to our uh witness Mr. Witness, it's been mentioned several times the importance of your investigation that it falls under yung prima facie evidence with reasonable certainty of conviction. And nabanggit niyo po na fulfill po lahat yan, no? Kaya siguro nagkaroon ng first report at second report. Is that correct? Yes, Your Honor. And can you just for the record give us an idea? Ano yung mga boxes that you have to fill in para pumasok po dito?

You mean, Your Honor, the comment of the Department of Justice? Yes,

to make it clear that it indeed goes into the Frimafaci evidence with reasonable certainty of conviction.

Well, basically, Your Honor, the requirements that the DOJ gave from our point of view were administrative.

Hindi ho 'yon 'yung sustansya noong aming affidavit, kasi hindi ho namin binago 'yung affidavit namin. 'Yun pa rin ho 'yon, eh. Ang nakita ho ng DOJ doon, 'yung affidavit of, I think, authentication na kailangan i-attach doon, and others, 'yung TSN, affidavit of transcription. This is, from our point of view, to satisfy the requirements of admissibility. So

it

didn't change despite of your fourth stage, the legal evaluation. In that stage of legal evaluation, was it considered, Mr. Witness, what the Vice President mentioned and even some of the defense panel, that it is actually a conditional threat and it appears that the Vice President during the presentation of the video

Insofar as the threat against the life of the Vice President, the very reason why we issued a subpoena and sent a letter was for us to have the chance to talk to the Vice President and elicit some information.