# July 29, 2026

Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Duterte

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LigLl9cpEa0
Status: Reviewed working draft, revision 4

**[00:04:40.320] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sergeant-at-Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

**[00:04:44.090] Alfredo Sotto Corpuz**  
All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:04:56.470] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Let's pause for a minute of silent prayer.

**[00:05:17.980] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Amen. The Clerk of Court will now call the roll.

**[00:05:21.990] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Roll call of members, the Honorable Senator Judge Aquino. Senator Judge Cayetano Allan. Senator Judge Cayetano Pia. Senator Judge De La Rosa. Senator Judge Ejercito. Senator Judge Estrada. Senator Judge Goh. Senator Judge Ontiveros. Senator Judge Lacson. Senator Judge Lapid. Senator Judge Legarda. Senator Judge Marcoleta. Senator Judge Marcos. Senator Judge Padilla. Senator Judge Pangilinan. Senator Judge Soto III. Setor Judge Tulfo Erwin. Setor Judge Tulfo Rafi. Setor Judge Villanueva. Setor Judge Villar Camil. Setor Judge Villar Mark. Setor Judge Zubiri. The presiding officer, Setor Judge Escudero. Senate President Gachalian. With

**[00:06:10.840] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
14 center judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside. over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

**[00:06:27.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Mr. Senate President. Magandang maga po sa ating lahat. If there are no objections, the Chair shall dispense with the reading of the Journal of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court dated July 22, 2026 and shall consider the same as approved.

**[00:06:47.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court.

**[00:06:51.170] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Zara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:06:59.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Appearances?

**[00:07:03.730] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Respectfully appearing for the prosecution, we are ready, Your Honor, for the presentation of our initial witnesses for Article 1, that is confidential fund misuse, misappropriation, and irregular liquidation.

**[00:07:19.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Good morning. Appearances for the respondent?

**[00:07:21.680] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearances for the respondent

**[00:07:24.170] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
accused.

**[00:07:24.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Good morning as well. Will the lead prosecutor kindly call their first witness for this morning?

**[00:07:31.150] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, may I request that the head prosecutor of Article 1 Confidential Fund, the Honorable Joel Chua, be recognized, Your Honor.

**[00:07:39.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Honorable Chua, a member of the panel of prosecutors, is recognized to call their first witness to the stand.

**[00:07:53.930] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Good morning, Your Honor.

**[00:07:58.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, same appearance for the prosecution. Your Honor, may we be given a five-minute opening statement. May we request... Representative Laila de Lima to be recognized by the Chair, Your Honor.

**[00:08:13.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Chair would like to remind the Honorable de Lima if indeed she will make an opening statement to kindly avoid conclusions of both fact and law as we have previously agreed upon and raised by the defense in previous hearings and as pointed out by several Senator judges. With that conditionality, the Honorable de Lima may proceed with

**[00:08:33.000] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
her opening statement. Your Honor, may we comment on that matter?

**[00:08:37.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, what is the pleasure of Attorney

**[00:08:41.080] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Paul? Your Honor, I'd like to apologize for having to comment on this matter, but as far as I recall, the presiding officer already made a ruling before against opening statements, Your Honors.

**[00:08:52.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, I will be very conscious, Honorable Delima, with respect to statements of fact and law that are not coming out from the mouth of any witnesses you will be presenting. So kindly...

**[00:09:06.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Be precise and short with respect to your opening statements. You may proceed, ma'am, subject to those reminders.

**[00:09:14.210] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. This is about five minutes or a little more than five minutes. Mr. Senate President, Mr. Presiding Officer, Honorable Senator Judges, mga kababayan, magandang umaga po. Sa ating pagbabudget para sa pamilya, Dahil hindi naman only ang pera, masinop ang ating paggasta sa talagang kailangan at kapagipaginabang natin nilalaan. Ganyan din dapat sa pondo ng bayan. Sa yugtong ito ng paglilitis, pagbuusapan natin ang confidential funds. Ito ang budget para sa mga sensitibo at surveillance-related activities upang suportahan ang mandato ng mga civilian agencies. That a budget is intended for confidential operations does not mean that the conduct of the officials involved in the handling of people's money is exempted from the demands of transparency, scrutiny, and accountability. Public office is a public trust. Yan ang sabi ng Constitution. Sakop nito ang lahat na nasa gobyerno. At ang utos na yan ay hindi pwedeng... Balawalain dahil confidential lang o confidential ang pondo. Ang confidentiality ay para potektahan ang legitimate operasyon at informant. Hindi ito pa hintulot para mag-imbento ng pangalan at dokumento. Hindi ito pa lusot para ibulsa ang pera. Kung confidential ang pondo, lalo pa nga mataas ang pananagutang kaagibat nito. The Constitution entrusts this court with the solemn duty to determine whether the responded Vice President committed culpable violation of the Constitution, graft and corruption, and betrayal of public trust. The evidence will show that she did. This case, Article 1, is about 612.5 million in confidential funds entrusted to VP Sara Duterte. through the Office of the President and the Department of Education. This is not about one missing receipt. This is not about a clerical error or accounting mistake. The evidence will reveal a pattern, a systemic course of conduct that, taken as a whole, demonstrates graft and corruption and betrayal of public trust.

**[00:11:46.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the permission of the Honorable Dilema,

**[00:11:50.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Counsel for Respondent.

**[00:11:52.080] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Again, Your Honors, I think we have to object to the statements being made by the Honorable Dilema with all due respect, of course. Your Honors, they can do that through the offer of their evidence, Your Honor.

**[00:12:02.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Chair will instruct

**[00:12:03.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the Honorable Delima to kindly limit her statements. I was listening intently in the beginning. It was okay, Honorable Delima. But later on, you did make conclusions of law already, which the Chair orders to be stricken from the record. You may wind up, Honorable Delima, but kindly avoid conclusions of fact and law. Your Honors, please. If I may just be given

**[00:12:24.660] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
just

**[00:12:24.920] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
a

**[00:12:24.980] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
few seconds. Your Honors, ang naging problema natin noong huling pagkakataon na pinayagan natin yung ganitong statement, At nasabi na nga ng presiding officer is kahit naman i-strike off the record natin, e narinig na po at nasabi na. So to allow your honors, again, a continuation of such, this really goes into the matter of fair play, Your Honor.

**[00:12:50.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Delima, kindly wind up. Again, you were forewarned beforehand to kindly limit your statements. Hence, you are faced again with a similar situation. Kindly wind up, Honorable Delima, and call your witness.

**[00:13:00.900] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
Ang dami pong...

**[00:13:03.880] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
malalampasan sa aking opening statement because

**[00:13:06.280] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
this is supposed to be an overview of the

**[00:13:08.760] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
case, the overview of the evidence. To

**[00:13:11.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
let the witnesses speak, not the counsels insofar as the evidence is concerned or conclusions of both fact and law. Kindly wind up, Honorable Lima.

**[00:13:21.140] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
I

**[00:13:21.660] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
submit,

**[00:13:22.080] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
Your Honor. And so I will wind up.

**[00:13:28.680] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
Kapag ang isang impeachable officer tulad ng pangalawang Pangulo ay nabuso ang kapangyarihan sa paraang sumisira sa accountability, Kung sumusubay sa pananagutan, dapat pa ba siyang pagkatiwalaan? Dapat pa ba siyang manatili sa pwesto? When the Filipino people entrusted their money to Vice President Sara Duterte, was that trust honored? That question will not be answered by politics, by general denials, by press releases. It will be answered by the witnesses, by the documents, by audit, and by the evidence and the prosecution. is ready to present it. Sa kabuuan ng ebidensya, makita ang hindi lang mga simpleng irregularidad na nangyari. Malinaw ito.

**[00:14:14.570] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
I

**[00:14:14.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
would have to stop you at this point. The continuing objection of the respondent is duly noted. I would have to stop you at this point. My

**[00:14:24.090] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
due apologies,

**[00:14:25.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
but kindly call your witness already.

**[00:14:27.190] Rep. Leila M. de Lima**  
Thank you, Your Honors. I submit. Thank you very much.

**[00:14:30.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly call your witness, Representative Chua.

**[00:14:36.590] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, we are going to present our first witness in the person of Ms. Violeta Constantino.

**[00:14:47.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court, through the Sergeant-at-Arms, is instructed to situate Ms. Violeta Constantino to the witness stand.

**[00:15:05.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly remain standing, ma'am. Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to the witness.

**[00:15:12.670] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Please raise your right hand, ma'am. You, Violeta Constantino, to swear. that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sarah Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

**[00:15:33.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly be seated, ma'am.

**[00:15:36.100] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
May I proceed, Your Honor?

**[00:15:37.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, Council, when

**[00:15:41.840] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
you're ready. Your Honor, we are offering the testimony of Ms. Violeta Constantino to prove the following.

**[00:15:53.190] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Una, na si Ms. Constantino ay isang reteradong Department Manager ng Land Bank of the Philippines Show Bolivar Branch from May 2017 to January 2024.

**[00:16:12.430] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pangalawa, na

**[00:16:16.010] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
ang Land Bank of the Philippines Show Bolivar Branch ang nagproseso ng encashment ng apat na cheque

**[00:16:27.120] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Payable sa isang Gina F. Acosta sa halagang 125 million each. Sa mga sumusunod na cheque. Una, Land Bank Check Number 0000244027 na may petsang December 20, 2022. Ikalawa, Land Bank. Check number 0000244053 na may pet siyang January 31, 2023.

**[00:17:13.410] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ikatlo, land bank check number 0000245511 na may pet siyang April 18, 2023. At ikapat, land bank check number 0000245664 na may pechang July 13, 2023.

**[00:17:49.150] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Katlo, na ang mga nasabing cheque ay lahat pinunduhan ng Philippine Treasury at nilipat sa account. ng Office of the Vice President.

**[00:18:06.700] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kaapat, na ang apat na nasabing cheque ay personal na in-encash ng isang Ms. Gina F. Acosta bilang SDO o Special Disbursing Officer ng Office of the Vice President noong December 20, 2022.

**[00:18:34.380] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
February 6, 2023, April 25, 2023, at July 14, 2023.

**[00:18:52.230] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ikalima,

**[00:18:55.770] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
bilang Department Manager ng Land Bank Show Boulevard Branch, si Ms. Constantino ay personal na nakasaksi at nag-oversee ng pag-encash, At pagtanggap ng pera mula sa cheque ni Ms. Acosta.

**[00:19:20.780] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ito yung panghuli.

**[00:19:24.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kaanim, iba pang mga bagay-bagay na may kinalaman dito sa impeachment case in relation to Article 1 on confidential funds and in relation to the aforementioned purposes, Your Honor.

**[00:19:40.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Before the comment, what is the third purpose for the offer again?

**[00:19:46.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, that all were funded by the Philippine Treasury and drawn against the account of the Office of the Vice President.

**[00:19:57.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Comment from the Council of Respondents?

**[00:20:00.480] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Subject to cross, Your Honor.

**[00:20:07.330] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
May we proceed now, Your Honor?

**[00:20:08.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed when you're ready.

**[00:20:10.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Madam

**[00:20:14.750] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Witness, handa

**[00:20:18.490] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
na po ba kayo?

**[00:20:21.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Naswear na ba?

**[00:20:24.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Madam

**[00:20:27.670] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Witness, para lang tayo nag-uusap, kaya relax lang po kayo.

**[00:20:34.440] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bilang preliminary matters, Madam Witness, pwede po ba kami po ay interesado? Ano po ang inyong pangalan at iba pang mga personal na detalya?

**[00:20:44.640] Violeta Constantino**  
Ako po si Violeta Constantino, retired employee of the Land Bank of the Philippines.

**[00:20:50.440] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay.

**[00:20:52.870] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Sabi po ninyo, kayo ay retired employee ng Land Bank of the Philippines. Madam Witness, gaano po kayo katagal na nagtrabaho sa Land Bank? of the Philippines bilang isang empleyado.

**[00:21:07.830] Violeta Constantino**  
At trabaho po ako sa Land Bank for 32 years na po.

**[00:21:13.020] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So, bago po ang inyong retirement, ano po ang inyong naging posisyon sa Land Bank kung meron man?

**[00:21:23.320] Violeta Constantino**  
Ako po ang department manager po sa Land Bank Show Boulevard branch.

**[00:21:27.300] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Sabi ninyo, kayo ay isang department manager ng Land Bank Show Boulevard. Madam Witness, ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng department manager?

**[00:21:40.950] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang department manager po ay kagaya rin po ito ng isang branch manager ng isang bank po po.

**[00:21:48.990] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So parang branch manager din po. Ngayon, bilang department manager, Madam Witness, ang tanong ko po sa inyo, ano po ba ang inyong functions and responsibilities?

**[00:22:02.360] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang main function ko po as a

**[00:22:05.140] Violeta Constantino**  
branch manager, ako po ang nag-oversee sa lahat ng transactions po ng branch. Particularly po sa opening ng accounts, deposits, encashments, withdrawals. Kasama na rin po dito yung pagmamarketing po and other administrative functions.

**[00:22:24.320] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now kanina, Madam Witness, sabi mo kayo ay department manager. sa Show Boulevard Branch. Now, ang tanong ko po, kailan po kayo nagsimula maging Department Manager ng Show Boulevard Branch? Kailan hanggang kailan po? Kung maalala po ninyo.

**[00:22:44.310] Violeta Constantino**  
Nag-start po ako sa Land Bank Show Boulevard Branch noong May 2017 until po nung mag-retire ako noong January 2024.

**[00:22:53.430] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, nandito po ngayon kayo sa Impeachment Court. Ang tanong ko po sa inyo, bakit po kayo nandito ngayong araw na ito dito sa impeachment court kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:23:10.250] Violeta Constantino**  
Nandito po ako sa araw na ito dahil po nakareceive po ako ng subpoena from the Honorable Impeachment Court to testify po yung knowledge ko regarding po doon sa impeachment trial po ngayon ni BP Sarad 30.

**[00:23:25.020] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, ano naman po ang kinalaman ninyo? Sa impeachment trial ni B.P. Sara Duterte, kung meron man po.

**[00:23:34.150] Violeta Constantino**  
Tungkol po ito sa apat na cheque po ng OVP na in-encash po sa Landbang Showbilly Bard nung ako po ay branch manager.

**[00:23:42.870] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Ngayon, binanggit po ninyo apat na cheque. Ano po itong apat na cheque ang binabanggit po ninyo?

**[00:23:51.840] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung apat na cheque po ito ay nakapangalam po kay Ms. Gina F. Acosta. na may amount po 125 million each.

**[00:24:00.770] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Madam Witness, bakit naman po kayo pamilyar dito po sa apat na cheque na binabanggit po ninyo?

**[00:24:08.530] Violeta Constantino**  
Pamilyar po ako dito kasi ako po yung nag-oversee ng encashment na ito nung ako po ay branch manager po ng show boulevard branch.

**[00:24:16.480] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, kung ipakikita po sa inyo itong apat na cheque na in-encash po ninyo sa show boulevard branch sa

**[00:24:30.040] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pag ipakikita po ito sa inyo, itong kopyang ito, ma-identify po ba ninyo ito?

**[00:24:35.240] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[00:24:36.340] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Madam Witness.

**[00:24:41.520] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor.

**[00:24:48.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Counsel for Responder, Attorney Paul. What is your pleasure?

**[00:24:52.220] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Just to expedite the proceedings, Your Honor, we are willing to stipulate that the witness has the ability to identify these checks.

**[00:25:01.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[00:25:01.980] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Has the ability to identify the checks. And we are also not questioning the authenticity of such checks, Your Honor.

**[00:25:09.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For the reference of the Senator judges, you're referring, Attorney Poa, to the four checks which are common exhibits of

**[00:25:19.020] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
both parties. That is correct, Your Honor.

**[00:25:21.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can we, just to confirm, Clerk of Court is directed to kindly show on the screen the Checks being stipulated to and admitted by the respondent. It should be exhibit

**[00:25:39.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
P128 to P128A1 for the prosecution and exhibit D1130 and D1130OVP1. Is that it?

**[00:25:54.450] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
That is correct, Your Honor.

**[00:25:55.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So this is one of the checks?

**[00:25:57.830] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes,

**[00:25:58.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Your Honor.

**[00:25:59.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly also show the other exhibits that the respondent is stipulating to so that the senator judges can catch up.

**[00:26:19.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Given that the respondent stipulated to the aforementioned checks for 125 million each dated December 20, 2022, January 31, 2023, April

**[00:26:38.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
18, 2023, and July 13, 2023, correct?

**[00:26:44.050] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
That's correct,

**[00:26:45.110] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor.

**[00:26:46.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Will you also stipulate, Counsel for Respondent, that these checks were encashed as well?

**[00:26:53.720] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Yes, Your Honor. And that these checks were from the Treasury of the Philippines and the payee was Gina Acosta, Your Honor.

**[00:27:03.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[00:27:04.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
that

**[00:27:04.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
these checks are authentic, that these checks were encashed by Gina Acosta, that these checks cover the face value of 125 million each. encashed on the dates mentioned by the respondent and that it was encashed by Gina Acosta. As

**[00:27:21.780] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
SDO, Your Honor.

**[00:27:22.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As SDO.

**[00:27:24.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Given that the counsel for respondent has stipulated and so admitted these facts, counsel from the panel of prosecutors kindly proceed with the other items given the stipulation by the counsel for respondent. There is no need for the witness to testify in these matters anymore. Thank you, counsel

**[00:27:40.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for respondent.

**[00:27:41.610] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, Madam

**[00:27:42.810] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Witness, dahil po yung harap ng cheque ay inadmit na po ng ating defense, pupunta po tayo dun sa baba. Meron po akong nakikita dito sa screen na image na nakalagay po sa baba at ito po ay

**[00:28:02.390] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
nakamarka bilang exhibit.

**[00:28:12.940] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
P-R1-28-A-1 Madam Witness, ano po itong imahe na nakikita po natin sa baba?

**[00:28:28.900] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kung alam po ninyo.

**[00:28:30.590] Violeta Constantino**  
Sir, pwede po ba ako makahingi ng... Your Honor,

**[00:28:35.310] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor, may we request...

**[00:28:36.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsel is authorized to approach the witness as well as assisting counsel from the respondent.

**[00:28:42.820] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor,

**[00:28:43.310] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
my

**[00:28:43.430] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
assisting counsel, Atty.

**[00:28:45.050] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Christina Pasicolan, will approach the witness. The

**[00:29:02.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clerk is instructed to kindly magnify the sub-marking being alluded to by the counsel from the panel of prosecutors. Yung nasa baba

**[00:29:15.940] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
po. Nami-marka po na binanggit ko pong exhibit.

**[00:29:21.740] Violeta Constantino**  
Okay, ulit po, please.

**[00:29:24.500] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Dito po sa cheque, dito po sa screen natin, meron pong imahe. At meron po ditong nakamarkang exhibit P-1, Roman numeral 1-28-A-1. Ano po itong imahe na ito, kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:29:46.180] Violeta Constantino**  
Iyon po bang certified draw copy po?

**[00:29:48.640] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Check. Huwag po kayong tumingin dito sa screen. Yan po sa, yung MI po. Yan po.

**[00:29:57.340] Violeta Constantino**  
Doon po sa isang malaking box.

**[00:29:59.280] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yung malaking. Ano po yan?

**[00:30:01.460] Violeta Constantino**  
Ito po yung mga firma po ng mga empleyado ko po noong time na na-encash po yung cheque.

**[00:30:07.420] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Nasaan po yan? Saan bahagi po ng cheque yan?

**[00:30:11.140] Violeta Constantino**  
Doon po sa three boxes. Madam

**[00:30:13.840] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
witness, pwede pong pakilapit po yung inyong pakilapit po sa mic. Yung para marinig po tayo. Yan. Yan pong imahe dyan po sa baba po ng, di ba yung taas po. Yan po yung harap ng cheque. Ano po yung imahe na nasa baba? Ano po yan?

**[00:30:34.260] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali po, ito po yung signature verified by po ang nakalagay. Apirma po ito ng aming verifier.

**[00:30:39.820] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Saan po nakalagay yan? Sa may? Sa

**[00:30:42.500] Violeta Constantino**  
upper ano po.

**[00:30:44.360] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Sa dorsal. Sa dorsal side ng cheque. Okay. Now, Madam Witness, dito po sa box na ito, mayroon ditong tatlong maliliit na box. Pwede po bang ma-request yung box na ito na medyo palakihan at i-zoom po? I-zoom po, papalapit.

**[00:31:03.910] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yan.

**[00:31:05.190] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pwede po bang pataas? Pataas. Paharap. Parotate po. Pakirotate po. Pakirotate.

**[00:31:19.110] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Medyo mahirap kong tignan. Pwede po bang pakirotate sa tech?

**[00:31:27.350] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Hindi

**[00:31:27.790] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
pwede? Ay, hindi pwede. Okay. Madam Witness, hindi daw po po pwede. Now, Madam Witness, dito po, ayun. Okay. Now Madam Witness, dito po sa box na malaking ito, meron po ditong tatlong box na napansin ko. Doon po sa bandang kaliwa, na unang box, may nakalagay po dito, Signature Verified By. At sa baba po neto, meron pong mukhang pirma. Now Madam Witness, ang tanong ko po sa inyo, kaninong pirma po ito kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:32:02.930] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang pirma po ito ay kay verifier po ng branch.

**[00:32:07.350] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, pag pumirma ang verifier dito sa box na ito, sa signature verified by, ano po ang ibig sabihin ito?

**[00:32:19.380] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang ibig sabihin po ng signature ng verifier ay na-verify niya po yung identity ng payee base po sa kanyang ID na pisinta. At

**[00:32:31.180] Violeta Constantino**  
the same time po, na-check niya rin po sa system na ito po ay may advice na galing po sa Office of the Vice President na pwede na po i-release.

**[00:32:38.500] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, upunta po tayo sa susunod na box na may nakalagay po ditong posted by. At meron din po ditong mukhang pirma. Now, Madam Witness, ang tanong ko po sa inyo, aninong pirma po itong nakalagay sa posted by? Kung alam po ninyo.

**[00:33:02.320] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang nakapirma po sa posted by ay kay Teller po.

**[00:33:05.730] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So, Madam Witness, pag pumirma ang isang Teller dito sa box na ito kung saan nakalagay ay posted by, ano po ang ibig sabihin ng kanyang pirma? Kung mahalala po ninyo.

**[00:33:20.170] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang pirma po ni Teller, ang ibig sabihin po nito ay na-encode na po niya sa system ang lahat po ng detalya din ng cheque.

**[00:33:27.780] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, pupunta na po tayo. Sa ikatlong box na may nakalagay pong approved by at mayroon din po ditong mukhang perma. Now, Madam Witness, kanino naman pong perma ito? Kung kilala po ninyo.

**[00:33:46.740] Violeta Constantino**  
Perma po ito ng aming approver.

**[00:33:49.520] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Pag pumirma po ang approver dito po sa box na ito, ano po ang ibig sabihin ng kanyang perma?

**[00:33:58.860] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang ibig sabihin po ng firma ng approver ay nakita niya po na ang pag-processo ng pag-verify po sa cheque ay dumaan po sa tamang proseso at ito po ay pwede na po i-encash.

**[00:34:11.540] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, bakit po kayo pamilyar dito sa tatlong firma na binugit po ninyo?

**[00:34:18.940] Violeta Constantino**  
Sila po yung aking mga staff nung ako po ay nasa Luanbang Show Boulevard. Ako po yung branch manager.

**[00:34:26.480] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness.

**[00:34:29.740] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ang susunod ko pong tanong sa inyo, kailan po na-encash itong checking ito?

**[00:34:38.300] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kung maalala po ninyo.

**[00:34:39.960] Violeta Constantino**  
As shown po dito sa dokumento na ito, ito po ay na-encash ng 20 December 2022.

**[00:34:47.240] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay.

**[00:34:51.390] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, sabi po ninyo, as shown dito sa record, ano po bang record ang binabanggit ninyo Madam Witness?

**[00:35:01.150] Violeta Constantino**  
Ito po yung validation ng teller na naka-appear po doon sa ilalim.

**[00:35:05.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Madam Witness, pwede po bang pakituro po sa amin na saan po dito sa parting to ng dorsal side ng

**[00:35:11.870] Violeta Constantino**  
Cheque,

**[00:35:12.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
yung binabanggit po ninyo?

**[00:35:13.950] Violeta Constantino**  
Nasa iba ba po, lower right portion.

**[00:35:17.030] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Lower right portion. Pwede po bang pakizoom para po mas malinaw at para po sa mas makita po natin ang maigit.

**[00:35:35.780] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Saan po dito? Ano pong nakalagay?

**[00:35:38.640] Violeta Constantino**  
20 December 2022.

**[00:35:42.300] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yan. Okay.

**[00:35:45.990] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now,

**[00:35:50.250] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Madam Witness, kailan nilagay ang markang ito kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:35:54.910] Violeta Constantino**  
Noong time po na yung encashment.

**[00:35:56.910] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay.

**[00:35:58.700] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, pupunta na po tayo sa pangalawang dokumento, Madam Witness.

**[00:36:07.200] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ito po, ito

**[00:36:11.510] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
po ay yung check number 0000.

**[00:36:19.220] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
244053 na may petsang January 31, 2023 at payable sa isang, again, Ms. Gina F. Acosta for 125 million

**[00:36:32.280] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
pesos.

**[00:36:33.360] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, ano po ang relasyon ng checking ito sa mga checking binabanggit po ninyo kanina?

**[00:36:41.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Kung meron

**[00:36:42.740] Violeta Constantino**  
man po.

**[00:36:43.080] Violeta Constantino**  
Yan pong checking na yan ay isa po sa mga apatay check-in po na na-encash po. Ms. Gina F. Acosta, nung ako po ang branch manager.

**[00:36:51.900] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Madam Witness, hindi ko na po itatanong sa inyo yung taas dahil yung po ay in-admit na at in-stipulate na po natin. Pupunta po tayo doon sa lower portion kung saan may nakalagay na exhibit P das Roman numeral 1 das 28 das B That's one. Now, Madam Witness, ano po itong imahe na minarkahan ng nasabing exhibit? Kung alam po ninyo.

**[00:37:31.010] Violeta Constantino**  
Ito po yung likod ng cheque po.

**[00:37:33.310] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, bakit po pa kayo pamilyar dito po sa checking ito, Madam Witness?

**[00:37:38.370] Violeta Constantino**  
Ito po yung in-encash nga po ni Miss Gina Cosa nung time ko pong manager sa Landmine Show.

**[00:37:45.570] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, pupunta tayo dun sa malaking box.

**[00:37:51.540] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pwede po bang paki-zoom in ulit yung malaking box?

**[00:37:58.140] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pwede po paki-ipatya tayo po.

**[00:38:02.460] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, kagaya po lang ako ng cheque, ito po ay may tatlong boxes. Doon at nakapaloob po sa malaking box. Doon sa kaliwa, may nakalagay po dito, signature verified by? At meron din pong mukhang pirma. Now, Madam Witness, kaninong pirma po ito? Kung maalala po ninyo at kung kilala po ninyo.

**[00:38:27.820] Violeta Constantino**  
Gaya po ng sabi ko kanina, ang nakapirma po sa signature verified by ang verifier po ng branch.

**[00:38:35.010] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, doon naman po sa gitna, meron din po ditong pirma na posted by. Kaninong pirma po ito? Kung maalala po ninyo at kung kilala po ninyo.

**[00:38:46.610] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa posted by po, si Teller po.

**[00:38:49.630] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Doon naman po, sa parting nakalagay approved by. Kanina naman pong pirma ito, kung alam po at kung kilala po ninyo.

**[00:38:59.520] Violeta Constantino**  
Pirma po yan ang approver. Akin po yan ang initial signature.

**[00:39:03.640] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ah, pirma po ninyo. Okay. Now, Madam Witness, bakit po kayo pamilyar dun sa unang dalawang pirma na binabanggit po ninyo?

**[00:39:11.820] Violeta Constantino**  
Mga staff ko po siya nung ako po ay branch manager po nung showbilly bird branch. At nawi-witness ko rin po yung mga firma nila sa iba pong mga bank documents.

**[00:39:22.040] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, ito pong pangalawang cheque na nakikita po natin, kailan po ito in-encash kung maalala po ninyo?

**[00:39:33.540] Violeta Constantino**  
As shown po dito sa dokumento, ito po in-encash noong 06 Feb 2023 po.

**[00:39:40.420] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
06 Feb 2023. Now, Madam Witness, nasa ang parte? Dito po sa ligot, yung inyong pinagbabasihan?

**[00:39:53.170] Violeta Constantino**  
Nasa lower right portion.

**[00:39:56.250] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Lower right portion. Pwede po ba pakituro po ninyo specific? Saan po dyan na nakalagay? Yun po,

**[00:40:04.130] Violeta Constantino**  
06 Feb 2023.

**[00:40:07.470] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
06 Feb 2023. Okay.

**[00:40:14.530] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, kailan po inilagay ang markang ito kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:40:21.320] Violeta Constantino**  
Nung araw po na-encashment po niya.

**[00:40:24.860] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, pupunta na po tayo sa ikatlong cheque. With

**[00:40:30.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the permission of the Honorable Chua, Attorney Poa, is this part of what you stipulated or no? The verifier's signature, the teller's signature, the approver's signature, as well as the date of encashment. To

**[00:40:45.940] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
be candid, Your Honor, it wasn't part, but right now, we are willing to stipulate the same.

**[00:40:50.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, if you're willing to stipulate, let the presiding officer state it for the record that the signature underneath the, on the dorsal side of the check with number 000024, kindly show it to the screen, 245511 in the amount of 125 million pesos. With the PES Gina F. Acosta dated April 18, 2023, that the signatures of the verifier, the teller, and the approver are all authentic and genuine, and that these were made in the course of their ordinary performance of duties, and the date of encashment is April 25, 2023, correct?

**[00:41:40.200] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
That's correct.

**[00:41:41.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And insofar as land bank check number 000024, kindly show it to the screen, 5664, payable to Gina F. Acosta in the amount of 125 million dated July 13, 2023. The signature of the verifier, teller, and approver on the dorsal side are also all authentic and were signed in the course of the performance of their ordinary duties. and that the date of encashment is July 14, 2023, correct?

**[00:42:12.500] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Stipulate, Your Honor.

**[00:42:13.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated, counsel from the panel of prosecutors, the Honorable Chua, given the stipulation, these are now deemed admissions for the information of the senator judges, and no proof or testimony is necessary to be presented by the panel of prosecutors. You may proceed, Honorable Chua. Okay,

**[00:42:33.840] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
with that, Your Honor. We would like to manifest that and state for the record, Your Honor, that the dorsal portion of the said checks were marked, Your Honor, as our exhibit P, that's Roman numeral 1, that's 28, that's

**[00:42:52.740] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
8,

**[00:42:55.790] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
that's 1.

**[00:42:58.900] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
For the first check, Your Honor, and for the second check, Your Honor, exhibit P, that's Roman numeral 1, that's 28, that's... B, that's 1. And for the third check, Your Honor, Exhibit P, that's Roman numeral 1, that's 28, that's C, that's 1. And for the fourth check, Your Honor, is Exhibit P, that's Roman numeral 1, that's 28, D, that's 1, Your Honor. Order record, Your Honor.

**[00:43:31.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now, Julie noted and entered into the records. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[00:43:35.870] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Now, Madam Witness, Dito po sa checking ito, may nakatatak po dito na certified true copy of the digital copy on file. Now, Madam Witness, pwede po ba malaman namin nasaan po ang original ng checking ito, kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:43:57.180] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang original copy po ng mga checking ito ay na-shred na po siya.

**[00:44:02.660] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Bakit po siya sinred, kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:44:08.270] Violeta Constantino**  
As per bank policy po, lahat po ng mga negotiated checks ay may retention period lang po ng one year. Kaya ito po ay sinishred na.

**[00:44:17.990] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So sinasabi po ninyo na ang mga cheque ay sinishred. Now, Madam Witness, pag sinabi ninyong shred, ano po ang ibig sabihin ninyo ng salitang o katagang shred?

**[00:44:32.010] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang meaning po ng shred, ito po ay dumadaan po siya sa machine shredder. So, napipirapirasan na po siya ng maliliit.

**[00:44:40.650] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, sabi ninyo, yung physical copy ng mga checking ito ay na-shred na. Ngayon, ano ang relasyon na itong digital copies na ito sa mga cheque na galing sa land bank na binabanggit mong cheque?

**[00:44:59.960] Violeta Constantino**  
Ano po ang relasyon?

**[00:45:01.460] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes.

**[00:45:01.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Ito po yung mga cheque po na na-encash po ni Ms. Gina Acosta.

**[00:45:05.540] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay.

**[00:45:07.850] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, Pupunta po tayo sa proseso ng encashment ng apat na cheque. Okay. Now, Madam Witness, ano ang proseso ng encashment dito po sa apat na cheque nito? Kung maalala po ninyo.

**[00:45:24.280] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang proseso po ng encashment namin, particularly itong transaction na ito, ay malaki po yung amount involved. So, meron po tumatawag sa amin from cash division po ng OVP a day or two prior po doon sa encashment na meron po...

**[00:45:41.500] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Sige po, tuloy po ninyo.

**[00:45:42.800] Violeta Constantino**  
Meron po silang for encashment nga po na 125 million.

**[00:45:46.660] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, binanggit ninyo, meron sa inyong tumatawag from the cash department ng OBP. Now, Madam Witness, ang tanong ko po, sino po ang tumatawag sa inyo from the cash department ng OBP? Kung maaalala lang po ninyo.

**[00:46:06.570] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung sa cash division po yan ng OBP, si Ms. Queenie Masangkay po.

**[00:46:12.970] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Queenie Masangkay. At

**[00:46:18.890] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
sino naman po sa inyong branch ang tinatawagan ni Miss Queenie Masangkay?

**[00:46:26.080] Violeta Constantino**  
Ako po ang tinatawagan niya.

**[00:46:28.360] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, paano po ninyo nalaman na si Miss Queenie Masangkay ay from Cash Department ng OBP?

**[00:46:37.290] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali siya po yung liaison ng OVP from the Caste Division at siya rin po yung tumatawag po sa akin sa other banking needs po nila.

**[00:46:48.090] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So, Madam Witness, kanina binanggit ninyo na kaya tumatawag sa inyo si Ms. Queenie Masangkay para i-advise kayo a day or two prior? Opo. Bakit po kailangan kayong i-advise a day or two prior sa engagement?

**[00:47:06.010] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali, meron po kasing cash involved limit lang po ang branch. So wala po kami any given day na amount po for that match po. Kaya kailangan po namin itong mag-request po sa aming cash center for assistance.

**[00:47:21.890] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, ang tanong ko po sa inyo, pagkatapos po kayong tawagan ni Ms. Queenie Masangkay, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari kung meron man po?

**[00:47:31.850] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali po,

**[00:47:35.320] Violeta Constantino**  
Kinakommunicate po sa aming branch cashier na meron po ganitong cash requirement po ang office of the vice president. At the same time po para po maka-coordinate po siya sa aming cash center for the cash transfer po.

**[00:47:48.560] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
So pagkatapos po mag-request o mako-coordinate ng inyong cashier, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari kung meron man po?

**[00:47:57.120] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali po paggatingan ng cash na ito, tinatawagan ko po si Miss Gina, ay si Miss... Queenie Masangkay po na available na po yung cash sa branch.

**[00:48:07.330] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So pagkatapos po ninyong tawagan si Miss Queenie Masangkay, ano na po ang susunod pang mangyayari kung meron man po?

**[00:48:15.590] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali, pumupunta na po si Miss Gina Costa at si Mr. Ortonio po sa branch para po mag-encash.

**[00:48:21.930] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Ngayon, binanggit po ninyo ang isang pangalang Miss Gina Costa at Mr. Ortonio. Paano po ninyo nakilala? si Ms. Acosta at si Mr. Ortonio.

**[00:48:37.270] Violeta Constantino**  
Uno ko pong nakilala si Mr. Ortonio kasi bali, isa po siya sa mga auto-resignatories po ng OPP. And then, inintroduce niya po si Ms. Gina Acosta na siya po yung pay ng cheque worth 125 million po.

**[00:48:52.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, pagpunta po sa inyo ni Ms. Gina Acosta at ni Mr. Ortonio, ano na po ang susunod? na mangyayari?

**[00:49:04.540] Violeta Constantino**  
Noong first encounter ko po sa kanila, bali po yung check-in na yun ay binigay po ni Ms. Gina together with her identification card niya. So, finaward ko po ito sa verifier para po ma-process.

**[00:49:21.490] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
So, pagkatapos po ninyo i-forward sa verifier para ma-process, ano na po ang susunod na nangyari kung meron man po?

**[00:49:28.400] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali po, biniverify po ito ni verifier, yung mga auto-resignatories po ng cheque. And then, sinicheck niya rin po sa system kung ito po ay mayroon ng advice from the OVP para po ito ay i-release na.

**[00:49:44.120] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So pagkatapos po maicheck, kung mayroon ng advice, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari kung mayroon man po?

**[00:49:51.950] Violeta Constantino**  
Na-forward na po ito sa teller para po i-encode sa system at para po makapag-request na po siya ng cash.

**[00:49:58.380] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So pag forward sa Taylor, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari kung meron man po?

**[00:50:04.840] Violeta Constantino**  
Pag po na-approve na rin po ng approver, tatawagin na po niya si Ms. Gina Costa para po mapareceive niya po yung cash.

**[00:50:12.840] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So sabi ninyo, tatawagin ni approver si Ms. Gina Costa para tanggapin na yung cash.

**[00:50:19.820] Violeta Constantino**  
Si Taylor po ang tumatawag.

**[00:50:21.980] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Tatawagin ni Taylor si Ms. Gina Costa para...

**[00:50:26.380] Violeta Constantino**  
Ipa-receive na po yung cash.

**[00:50:27.860] Violeta Constantino**  
Ipa-receive na yung cash.

**[00:50:28.880] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ano na po ang susunod mangyayari pagkatapos pong i-inform ni Taylor si Ms. Gina Acosta?

**[00:50:35.220] Violeta Constantino**  
Bale, since malaka din nga po yung amount, inaguide po si Gina Acosta papasok po sa backroom para po doon i-release yung cash.

**[00:50:45.460] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Ngayon, may binabanggit po kayong backroom.

**[00:50:50.870] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Sino-sino po ang nasa backroom kung alam po ninyo?

**[00:50:55.730] Violeta Constantino**  
Noong pong unang release po noong cash, ako po ang nandoon, si Teller, yung branch cashier, si Ms. Gina, and then si Mr. Limuel po,

**[00:51:04.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
or Tonyo. So pagdating ninyo sa backroom, ano na po yung mga sumunod na pangyayari kung meron na po?

**[00:51:13.420] Violeta Constantino**  
Nirelease po yung ng Teller po, after po ma-receive sa cheque po, yung payment received, nirelease na po ni Teller yung cash. kay Ms. Gina, in packs po siya, worth 1 million each po.

**[00:51:27.250] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So, maalala po ba ninyo kung ilang packs po ang nirelease kay Ms. Gina Acosta?

**[00:51:33.630] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali, 125 packs po.

**[00:51:35.810] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
125 packs. Okay. Now, pagkatapos pong i-release itong pera in packs, in 125 packs, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari?

**[00:51:47.710] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali, nilalagay na po nila yun sa dala po nilang bags.

**[00:51:51.970] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Ngayon, meron po kayong binanggit na bag.

**[00:51:56.130] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Madam Witness, anong klaseng bag ang pinaglagyan ng pera kung maalala po ninyo?

**[00:52:03.610] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa pagkaalala ko po, isang mahabang malaking bag po siya. Para pong gym bag.

**[00:52:12.490] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Madam Witness, ilang bag po ang dala po ni Ms. Gina Acosta at ni Mr. Ortonio?

**[00:52:21.630] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa pagkaalala ko po, mga 3 to 4 bags po yun.

**[00:52:25.550] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, sabi ninyo, nilagay dito yung 125 million sa 3 to 4 bags. Okay.

**[00:52:37.300] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari pagkalagay po nila dito po sa bag?

**[00:52:46.340] Violeta Constantino**  
Lalabas na po sila ng bangko.

**[00:52:48.000] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Madam Witness, si Ms. Gina Acosta lang po ba? May kasama pa po ba si Ms. Gina Acosta at si Lemuel Ortonio?

**[00:52:59.210] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa pagkaalala po, meron po silang kasama.

**[00:53:02.090] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ilan po? Kung maalala po ninyo?

**[00:53:03.890] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na po ma-recall.

**[00:53:05.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness,

**[00:53:07.810] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
ang

**[00:53:09.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
tanong ko po sa inyo, paglabas po nila, meron po ba sa banko na empleyado na tumulong sa kanila para bitbitin po itong bag kung meron man po?

**[00:53:21.200] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po, sir.

**[00:53:22.200] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bakit po wala?

**[00:53:24.190] Violeta Constantino**  
It's against bank policy po na tumulong po sa mga kliyente, ang mga empleyado or even po yung security guards po namin.

**[00:53:32.430] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bakit po yun against sa bank policy, Madam Witness?

**[00:53:35.730] Violeta Constantino**  
In case po na for safety and security measures din po, para po hands-off na po ang banko once na marilis na po yung physical cash po.

**[00:53:46.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, ito pong huling tanong ko.

**[00:53:52.280] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
How much po in total, Madam Witness, Ang winidro in relation po dito po sa apat na cheque, binabanggit po ninyo?

**[00:54:01.460] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang total po ng apat na cheque, mga ano po siya, kalahating billion po.

**[00:54:07.720] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. That would be all, Your Honor.

**[00:54:12.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Honorable Chua. Cross from the Council for Respondent. Attorney Poa, you may proceed when you're ready, sir.

**[00:54:20.410] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Nothing to cross, Your Honor, from our end. However, Your Honor, may I just make a manifestation just on the markings, Your Honor?

**[00:54:26.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Council may do

**[00:54:28.050] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
so. Just on the markings of the check, we'd also like to put on record, Your Honors, that for check with ending 244027 dated December 20, 2022, this is marked by the prosecution on the face of the check as D-1-130-OBP. On the dorsal portion, it is D-1-130-OBP. OVP-1. For the second check, dated January 31, 2023, ending with 244053.

**[00:55:03.370] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
On the face of the check, this is marked as D-1-131-OVP. Torsel portion is marked as D-1-131-OVP-1. For the third check, dated April 13, 2023, with ending 245511.

**[00:55:24.200] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
The

**[00:55:24.500] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
face of the check was marked as D-1-132-OVP while the dorsal portion was marked as D-1-132-OVP-1. The fourth and last check ending 245664 dated July 13, 2023. The face of the check was marked as D-1-133-OVP while the dorsal portion was marked as T-1-133-OVP-1. That is all, Your Honors. Again, nothing to cross from our end.

**[00:56:02.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yeah. Yeah. Just to correct you, the check ending in 5511 is dated April

**[00:56:14.920] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
18. Correct, Yon. April 18, 2023.

**[00:56:18.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, you mentioned 13 earlier.

**[00:56:19.600] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
So it's 18. Yes, 18, Yon. Thank you.

**[00:56:27.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Given that there is no cross and therefore no redirect, we now proceed to allow the senator judges for their interventions in the order that they signify their intent to ask questions and make interventions. The Honorable Erwin Tulfo, thereafter, the Honorable Rafi Tulfo, thereafter, the Honorable Senator Judge Aquino. The Honorable Tulfo is recognized for his interjections and interventions. You have two minutes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[00:56:57.370] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ms. Witness, Ms. Constantino, dyan ba talaga ang account ng mga OVP sa bangko ninyo sa show? Or si VP lang ang nag-open ang account dyan sa bangko ninyo?

**[00:57:12.140] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung Office of the Vice President po.

**[00:57:14.820] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
OVP? Opo. So hindi lahat dyan may account ang OVP?

**[00:57:21.790] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala na po kung alam.

**[00:57:23.490] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay.

**[00:57:26.410] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Kaya nga po, tanong mo natin, si dating VP Robredo po ba nagbukas din ang account dyan?

**[00:57:32.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Actually po, na-transfer lang po sa amin ang MDS account po ng Office of the Vice President noong September 2022, noong lumipat po sila ng kanilang office address sa Pioneer, Mandaluyong.

**[00:57:47.060] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ah, okay. Normal po ba na ganito kalaki ang wini-withdraw ng isang government agency?

**[00:57:55.840] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Is this normal? Nakakita ka na ba nito ng other government agencies na ganito kalaki ang withdrawal?

**[00:58:02.120] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po. Unusual po ito.

**[00:58:04.740] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Unusual yung withdrawal. So therefore, kung unusual, Madam Witness, hindi mo kayo nagtanong man lang, para saan po ba kayo ito?

**[00:58:13.120] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Kasi alam ko sa banko po, nagtatanong ako po, nagbabango ko sa privado, natatanong po yung staff ko, para saan magagamitin ni Sarah ito, ni Seth?

**[00:58:23.140] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Hindi na

**[00:58:24.220] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
ba ninyo tinatanong?

**[00:58:25.710] Violeta Constantino**  
Kasi po may advice naman po siya. So kumbaga dumaan naman po ito sa proseso nila. Kaya I don't think po na magtanong pa kami.

**[00:58:36.390] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
What is the SOP? Ano po ang standard operating procedure pag may mga malalaking withdrawal? Or exempted pag mga government agency lalo po at mga matataas na ahensya ng pamahalaan?

**[00:58:51.840] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala na pong exemption. Kaya lang po itong sa particular na transaction po ng OVP, bali meron naman po kasi silang pinu-forward na advice po sa branch.

**[00:59:01.460] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay.

**[00:59:04.080] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alam niyo po ba na ito ay for intelligence fund, yung winning withdraw?

**[00:59:08.560] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi po.

**[00:59:09.660] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Hindi niyo po alam na intel fund ito?

**[00:59:12.160] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[00:59:12.560] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Pero nagduda po kayo sa ganitong kalaking halaga. Is that correct?

**[00:59:17.960] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa personal opinion namin, sa banko. Parang siyempre po, saan kaya gagamitin po yung cash na ito? Pero hindi naman po namin tinanong na kasi may advice naman po siya.

**[00:59:30.680] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay, panghuli na lamang po Madam Witness. May other agencies pa ba na may account sa inyo?

**[00:59:38.800] Violeta Constantino**  
Marami naman po mga government agencies po sa

**[00:59:41.600] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
branch ninyo. Pero walang mga ganito kalalaking withdrawal?

**[00:59:49.050] Violeta Constantino**  
So far po kasi nag-convert na po lahat kasi sila sa mga online system like yung sa ATM payroll. So hindi na po ganyang kalalaki yung mga withdrawals po nila.

**[01:00:00.000] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you Madam Witness. Thank you Presiding Officer.

**[01:00:02.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo. Senator Judge Rafi Tulfo is recognized. You may proceed sir when you're ready for interjections and interventions. You have two minutes sir.

**[01:00:20.470] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Madam Witness, magandang umaga po.

**[01:00:22.390] Violeta Constantino**  
Magandang umaga rin po. Hindi

**[01:00:23.410] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
masyado klaro sa amin yung sinabi mong mga bag ang pinaglagyan nitong 125 million. Anong klaseng bag muli?

**[01:00:30.890] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa pagkakaalala ko po, ito po isang malaking, mahabang bag. Parang diniscribe ko nga po as... Duffel

**[01:00:37.690] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
bag? Gym bag?

**[01:00:38.870] Violeta Constantino**  
Gym bag po. Iba po kasi yung duffel bag sa bangko. So gym

**[01:00:42.190] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
bag, ano kalaking?

**[01:00:43.490] Violeta Constantino**  
Mahaba po.

**[01:00:44.350] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay. Ayon sa BSP, ang 1 million approximately 1 kilo. So that's 125 million. So si Gina lamang ang nagbit-bit ng 125 kilos palabas ng bangko?

**[01:00:57.350] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang alam ko pong assistance na naalala ko po ay nag-provide po kami ng trolley.

**[01:01:03.960] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
At mag-isa lang si Gina?

**[01:01:05.820] Violeta Constantino**  
May kasama po sila eh. Hindi ko lang po ma-recall. So

**[01:01:08.800] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
ilang daffle bag po ulit?

**[01:01:10.380] Violeta Constantino**  
Mga 3 to 4. Bags po.

**[01:01:13.760] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
I mean, 3 to 4.

**[01:01:16.620] Violeta Constantino**  
Gym bags.

**[01:01:18.040] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Gym bags.

**[01:01:20.900] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Dapat sigurado. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Kasi... Kung 125 million at tatlong gym bag, eh yung gym bag, ano lang kalaki yun? Mahaba. Mahaba. Kakasya ba dyan 125 kilos?

**[01:01:35.660] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
31 million per.

**[01:01:36.660] Violeta Constantino**  
Baka

**[01:01:37.220] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
nagkakamali kayo.

**[01:01:38.640] Violeta Constantino**  
Mga 3 to 4 bags nga po.

**[01:01:40.880] Violeta Constantino**  
Dapat

**[01:01:41.060] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
precise po kayo. Dapat dina-jet daw nyo yan bago paglabas. 3 bags ang lumabas, ang pinaglagyan.

**[01:01:48.620] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi na po namin yan ano po.

**[01:01:50.940] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay, sige. Pero dapat, you should be approximate, I mean precise kasi we're talking of impeachment of the vice president dito. Hindi dapat yung parang kalkulasyon-kalkulasyon lamang. As much as possible.

**[01:02:01.980] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo, mga ganun, four bags.

**[01:02:03.880] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay, four bags. Now, wala bang, kasi alam ko pag ganun kalaki amount, kuminsan yung bank ko nag-offer doon sa depositor. na i-deliver yung pera sa lugar na gusto nilang pupuntahan ng pera ngayon through the what we call armored car or armored vehicle. Hindi kayo nag-provide na ganoon?

**[01:02:23.750] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi po. Wala po kasi kaming memorandum of agreement regarding po sa services, cash services or cash delivery.

**[01:02:31.150] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
So hindi nag-request yung OVP ng cash delivery through armored vehicle papunta doon so back to their office. Okay.

**[01:02:40.730] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Curious lang po, sino itong... Mayroon pa

**[01:02:43.170] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
isang pangalan nakapirma sa baba ng cheque, itong Rosaline L. Sanchez. Sa pagkakalam mo. Kasi diba sa baba, nakalagay Rosaline Sanchez and then Lemuel Ortonio, signatory doon sa paglilis ng cheque. Who are they?

**[01:02:57.250] Violeta Constantino**  
Authorized signatory po. Isa po siya sa authorized signatories po ng Office of the Vice President. Si

**[01:03:03.590] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Rosaline Sanchez, sino po ito?

**[01:03:06.190] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa

**[01:03:06.710] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
pagkakalam niyo po.

**[01:03:07.990] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang alam ko po, siya po yung sa finance. Sa

**[01:03:12.400] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
finance. Okay, nabagit nyo rin po prior dun sa withdrawal, you're given one or two days para makapag-prepare ng cash. Sino po ulit tumatawag sa inyo?

**[01:03:23.520] Violeta Constantino**  
Si Ms. Queenie Masangkay po.

**[01:03:25.580] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Paano po nalaman na si Ms. Queenie Masangkay tumatawag sa inyo?

**[01:03:28.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Na-meet ko na rin po siya sa branch nung nag-open po sila ng MDS account po.

**[01:03:35.090] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay, last na naman. Usually pag ganun kalaking amount ang mini-withdraw, Sinisiguro nyo na yung pupunta doon sa banko, yun yung authorized na mag-withdraw talaga ng perang yan. Kadalasan tinatawagan pa yung principal. Wala kayong ganong klase ng protocol in place?

**[01:03:52.190] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala na po kasi may advice na po siya.

**[01:03:54.650] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wala na? May advice na po

**[01:03:55.890] Violeta Constantino**  
siya.

**[01:04:00.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Bago po yung bell, Senator Judge Raffi.

**[01:04:06.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Next.

**[01:04:08.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To be recognized for his interjections would be Senator Bam Aquino. You have two minutes, sir.

**[01:04:13.850] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Maraming salamat, Mr.

**[01:04:14.470] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Presiding Officer. Ms. Violeta, magandang umaga.

**[01:04:18.010] Violeta Constantino**  
Magandang umaga din po.

**[01:04:19.190] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Kaklaruin ko lang po, yung cheque ay mula po kanino?

**[01:04:23.190] Violeta Constantino**  
Mula po sa Office of the Vice President.

**[01:04:25.210] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Hindi po, diyan po napunta yung pondo, no? But kayino po, anong account galing po yung perang yan?

**[01:04:32.430] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa Office of the Vice President nga po.

**[01:04:34.630] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Because it was already downloaded to the Office of the Vice President from the Treasury. Is that correct?

**[01:04:40.270] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[01:04:40.630] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So this is OVP funds na napunta kay Ms. Gina Acosta na SDO po nila. Tama po.

**[01:04:47.870] Violeta Constantino**  
Basta po si Ms. Gina yung payee po ng cheque.

**[01:04:50.630] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung payee. Okay. Nabanggit niyo po kanina na unusual po yung laki.

**[01:04:57.710] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Kapag ganun po, Do you report this to any agency? Kung nagtatakahan nyo po na parang laki naman ito. Do you do any reporting or wala na pong reporting yan?

**[01:05:09.290] Violeta Constantino**  
I'm sorry, Your Honor. May we invoke po yung AMLA rule na hindi po kami pwede mag-disclose any information po regarding sa reporting.

**[01:05:18.750] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Sa reporting?

**[01:05:21.200] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay.

**[01:05:21.820] Violeta Constantino**  
AMLA rule po siya.

**[01:05:23.000] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Let me rephrase the question. Ang government transactions po ba ay sakop ng AMLA rules?

**[01:05:34.340] Violeta Constantino**  
Makakasagot po yan ang AMLC po. Hindi,

**[01:05:37.740] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
pwede niyong sabihin. Hindi ko po alam yung sagot. Kayo po yung isang branch manager. So kayo po yung nasa landmark ng ilan taon. Alam niyo po yung mga rules. Nais ko lang pong malaman kung ang government transactions ba ay sakop ng AMLA regulations po natin.

**[01:05:51.460] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala naman pong exemption po doon. So

**[01:05:53.660] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
sakop po siya?

**[01:05:55.160] Violeta Constantino**  
Sakop po.

**[01:05:55.820] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So ang sinasabi niyo po ba sa AMLA rules ay kasama ito sa mga covered or suspicious transactions? Tama po ba?

**[01:06:07.240] Violeta Constantino**  
Yun nga po. So I invoke po na mag-prohibit po ako magsabi po nito.

**[01:06:13.660] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay, let me rephrase. I'm sorry, for me these are simple questions, no? Regulations lang po ito.

**[01:06:20.990] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So ulitin ko, sakop ang government transactions sa AMLA regulations, correct? Yes.

**[01:06:26.490] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Lahat po.

**[01:06:27.040] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yes. At ano po ba yung rules natin pagating sa pagre-report sa AMLA? Above a certain amount? Tama po ba?

**[01:06:33.880] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[01:06:34.820] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Opo. Magkano po yung limit? Kapag above, what

**[01:06:38.480] Violeta Constantino**  
amount po

**[01:06:38.980] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
yan?

**[01:06:39.420] Violeta Constantino**  
More than 500,000 po.

**[01:06:41.120] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Any amount above 500,000, whether private po o gobyerno, nire-report niyo po sa AMLA?

**[01:06:46.820] Violeta Constantino**  
Supposedly po.

**[01:06:47.580] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Yan yung covered o yan yung suspicious?

**[01:06:50.900] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung over 500,000. Magkaiba po yun, di ba? Covered po.

**[01:06:53.400] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Yung suspicious po, ano po yung... Regulasyon, kapag nagsasabit po kayo ng suspicious transaction, ano po yung batayan? Bakit ang isang transaction ay suspicious?

**[01:07:03.070] Violeta Constantino**  
Kung sa tingin po namin ay doubtful po yung transaction. For this particular po, hindi naman po kami nag-doubt kasi alam namin po na legit po yung transaction.

**[01:07:13.630] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay, klakrawin ko ha. Kahina po, sabi nyo personally, meron kayong pagdududa, pero officially, hindi po kayo nag-report na suspicious transaction po ito.

**[01:07:21.730] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po akong sinabing may pagdududa.

**[01:07:24.870] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Kayina, sabi niyo, nung nagtanong si Senator Tulfo, sabi niyo,

**[01:07:28.350] Violeta Constantino**  
personal lang. Unusual po

**[01:07:29.210] Violeta Constantino**  
ang nasabi ko po.

**[01:07:30.330] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So kahit at sa tingin po niyo, unusual ito, hindi niyo po ito ni-report bilang suspicious transaction?

**[01:07:37.620] Violeta Constantino**  
Ayaw.

**[01:07:40.210] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi po pwede magsabi po na nag-report po kami dahil nga po i-invoke po yung AMLA law.

**[01:07:47.570] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So covered, definitely, kasi it's above 500,000. Pero yung suspicious transaction, ayaw nyo pong sabihin dahil covered po ito ng AMLA lang.

**[01:07:56.600] Violeta Constantino**  
Kasi para sa amin naman po ay talagang hindi naman po siya suspicious.

**[01:08:00.640] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Sige po. Sige po, yun na

**[01:08:03.980] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
po muna. Maraming salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[01:08:06.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Sen. Bam Aquino. You may avail of the second round, if at all, Sen. Aquino. Sen. Judge Alan Cayetano is recognized thereafter. Sen. Judge Joel Villanueva, you have two minutes.

**[01:08:20.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm sorry, after

**[01:08:21.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Allen, Senator Riza.

**[01:08:23.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thereafter, Senator Judge Joel Villanueva. You

**[01:08:26.010] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
have two minutes, sir. Magandang umaga, Madam Witness. Welcome to the Senate. Most of my questions natanong naman ni Senator Erwin. I'd just like to ask, but you're familiar with the concept of confidential or discretionary funds? Or hindi? In government parlance.

**[01:08:48.270] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po kang

**[01:08:48.990] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
alam. Kasi kung hindi ka familiar, whether that agency has 50 million discretionary funds or let's say if you were the manager sa OP and they had, I don't know how much now, 10 billion, you won't find it unusual kung 500 million, 250, 1 billion. Kasi nga usual means parate. Unusual means. Bakit ganito kalaki? Because when I was in the DFA, there was a big storm. And I've never dealt with land bank directly except for my personal account as sa sweldo ko as DFA Secretary. But the President asked us, what can each agency do? So my staff then, si Yusek Arriola said, Sir maraming ma-stastak sa mga ports, airport at seaport. May isa tayong fund. Kung OFW sila, pwede tayong magbigay. So I think we had to withdraw 50 or 100 million. At sinabi nung branch manager, wala. And then it was a Friday. So I had to call the president of land bank and say, Sir, masastranded hindi. And then they sent over 50 or 100 million. So my point is, just because it's unusual, it doesn't mean it's... illegal or whatever. Tama po ba?

**[01:10:15.020] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala naman pong illegal dun sa encashment po.

**[01:10:17.980] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Because nga, may difference when it's a private account. So it's a

**[01:10:21.800] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
private account and they don't usually, let's say, someone has a private account, commercial or private, meaning business or personal niya, they always withdraw 50,000, 100,000. This is theoretical ha, so hindi ito covered ng bank secrecy law. Suddenly, mag-we withdraw ng 3 million. Minsan nagtatanong, di ba? Dahil know your customer, di ba? Ganon din sa deposit. I'll just finish this line. Ganon din sa deposit, di ba? So kung sweldo ko 30,000, every time nagde-deposit ako 30,000, biglang magde-deposit ako 2 million, tatanungin ako, Sir, saan galing ito? Right?

**[01:10:55.410] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Pero

**[01:10:55.830] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
pag government, as long as you're dealing with the people you identified with, so whether that's DPWH, whether that's DOTR, basta everything's in order. Magtataka ka lang pag sobrang laki ng amount. But then you'll release it.

**[01:11:12.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly wind

**[01:11:12.880] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
up. Thank you. I was just clarifying that point.

**[01:11:16.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Allen. Senator Judge Risa Antiveros is recognized.

**[01:11:21.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. You have two minutes.

**[01:11:32.870] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Madam Witness. Yung 32 years nyo po na sinabi sa banking industry, yun po ba lahat ay sa land bank lamang? Opo. Okay. And then, sabi nyo po, unusual. Unusual yung withdrawals na ito. Sa 32 years nyo po sa banking industry, sa land bank, nakakita na po ba kayo ng ganyang kalaking amount na withdrawal ever before? First time po. First time. Okay.

**[01:12:10.860] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Sabi nyo nga kanina, unusual yung amount. First time may ganyang amount na 125 million pesos. Bakit nyo sinabing unusual? Ano yung floor nyo para sabihin unusual yung isang amount?

**[01:12:29.310] Violeta Constantino**  
Usually po kasi kaya naging unusual pa sa akin kasi cash po siyang kinukuha.

**[01:12:33.690] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa

**[01:12:34.290] Violeta Constantino**  
other, ano naman po, kumbaga nag-issue po sila ng mga cheque sa yung disbursement po nila by checks po, hindi po cash. Okay.

**[01:12:44.210] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
So hindi lang yung laki nung halaga na 125 million ang unusual, unusual din na yung ganyang unusual amount ay sa cash kinuha at hindi sa mga cheque. Okay. And yung 125 million, yun ba yung minimum na pag kinuha in cash, sasabihin nyo unusual? Or meron bang lowest amount na kapag kinuha in cash, sasabihin nyo na rin unusual?

**[01:13:15.250] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede naman po namin sabihin na unusual. Let's say kung over, let's say 500,000 na po siya.

**[01:13:21.610] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Over 500,000? Kung over 500,000 kinuha in cash, sasabihin nyo unusual. For that particular, let's say po yung kliyente. Yes. For the particular client. E ito, hindi lang 500,000, 125 million. So, 250 times mas unusual. Sa minimum amount na sasabihin yung unusual kung kinuha in cash.

**[01:13:49.270] Violeta Constantino**  
Depende po rin sa

**[01:13:50.750] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
yung kliyente po. Depende sa kliyente. But kung sino mang kliyente aside, nasabi niyong unusual dahil 125 million na para po sa akin is 250 times yung 500,000 at hindi po in-check kundi in-cash po kinuha.

**[01:14:10.760] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede nga po, depende po sa depositor po niya. Kung regular lang sa kanya yung mga ganyan, withdrawals or what, it's usual. Pero kung parang... For the first time, ma-encounter namin that much, unusual po sa akin.

**[01:14:24.340] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
And this was your first time?

**[01:14:25.760] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo. And

**[01:14:26.480] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
in your 32 years, sigit tatlong dekada, kung masasabi natin, pambihirang amount ito in cash. Opo. Masasabi natin, once in a lifetime, yung ganitong amount in cash. Pwede po. Pwede. Alright. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you.

**[01:14:42.840] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Tutuloy ko po sa second round.

**[01:14:44.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Riza. Senator Judge Villanueva, thereafter, our Distinguished Senate President. You may proceed, sir. When you're ready, you have two minutes.

**[01:14:52.650] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank you, Sir Presiding Officer, Sir President. Madam Witness, binanggit niyo po yung unusual, no? And gusto kong susugan yung katanungan. Yung usual, below 500,000 pag individual. Pero kung ito'y government agency, paano niyo masasabi na ito'y unusual?

**[01:15:13.340] Violeta Constantino**  
Any depositor naman po, kung hindi naman po ganong frequency lang nag-i-withdraw ng ganong kalaking cash.

**[01:15:21.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Kaya po naano ko siyang unusual.

**[01:15:24.330] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Kung ganito po na apat na beses na nag-withdraw na 125 million, would you say usual na siya?

**[01:15:31.110] Violeta Constantino**  
Unusual nga po. Kung

**[01:15:32.610] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
apat na sunod-sunod na, yung binanggit po ninyo, 125 million, sunod-sunod, nagiging usual na po ba siya o unusual pa rin?

**[01:15:41.450] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede naman po. What is it? Kung sunod-sunod naman po, magiging ano na po siya. Talagang usual transaction na po yun.

**[01:15:49.950] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So, kung ganun nga po na apat na sunod-sunod, usual transaction na siya.

**[01:15:53.750] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[01:15:57.020] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Madam Witness, as I understand, yung process, the BM would provide the funding, notice of cash allocation, and then the agency authorizes the disbursement. At kayo, for example, sa inyong bank o sa land bank, bine-verify nyo lang at you pay the corresponding instrument. Is that correct?

**[01:16:16.610] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo. Bine-verify po yung... pag-issue ng cheque po, yung mga signatories, payees, like that po. So

**[01:16:24.170] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
bago po inilabas ang salapi o yung pera, ano-ano pong dokumento yung actual na natatanggap po ninyo at inyong masusing sinusuri? Kasi sabi nyo nga ho, I'm sure from the first withdrawal, as you made mention, it's unusual. So ano yung mga talagang sinusuri po ninyo na dokumento bago nyo i-release ito?

**[01:16:50.340] Violeta Constantino**  
supported naman po ito ng advice. So, once po nakapasok na po sa system at funded naman po siya, okay na po sa amin yun.

**[01:16:58.520] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So, yun lang po yung inyong sine-check? Opo. And that's it? You release it right away?

**[01:17:02.800] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes,

**[01:17:03.060] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
sir. And binanggit niyo po kanina, hindi ito suspicious.

**[01:17:10.400] Violeta Constantino**  
Para sa ano po, hindi po siya suspicious. At

**[01:17:13.380] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
lahat po ay legitimate?

**[01:17:14.880] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:17:16.280] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
One last... question that I'd like to ask. With this amount of money that will be withdrawn by the payee, ano yung mga advance arrangements? Kasi sabi nyo nga, hindi usual, biglaan, 125 million. Ano yung mga advance arrangements na inihingi po ninyo o tinatawag po sa inyo bago mailabas po itong Salapin na ito. How far in advance was land bank informed that these amounts of physical cash would be required for each transaction?

**[01:17:53.000] Violeta Constantino**  
Mga a day or two po, ni-inform po kami from the cash division po ng OVP na meron po silang ganong cash requirement. So sa amin naman po, pinaprocess naman po namin yung requirements nila bago po namin sila advised na available na po yung cash. So

**[01:18:09.140] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
in 24 hours, kaya na po?

**[01:18:10.960] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede naman po.

**[01:18:12.330] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Salamat po. Maraming salamat.

**[01:18:13.570] Violeta Constantino**  
Thank

**[01:18:13.730] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
you.

**[01:18:14.510] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank

**[01:18:15.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you, Senator Judge Villanueva. The distinguished Senate President is recognized. You have two minutes for your interjection, sir. Thank

**[01:18:21.010] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Good morning, Ms. Constantino. Sundan ko lang po yung natanong kanina ni Senator Riza. So in your 32 years in land bank, hindi pa po kayo nakakita ng withdrawal na ganito kalaking amount?

**[01:18:41.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
125 million. Tama po ba?

**[01:18:43.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes po, sir.

**[01:18:44.500] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ano yung pinakamalaking nakita nyo ng withdrawal? In cash?

**[01:18:48.910] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na po ma-recall. More

**[01:18:50.650] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
or less lang. Mabigyan nyo kami.

**[01:18:52.930] Violeta Constantino**  
In cash?

**[01:18:54.090] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In cash.

**[01:18:56.360] Violeta Constantino**  
Pinakamalaking

**[01:18:56.820] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
nakita nyo na o na-experience yun na? Mga

**[01:18:59.320] Violeta Constantino**  
500,000 po.

**[01:19:00.780] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
500,000. And next, ito na. 125 million.

**[01:19:05.140] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:19:06.540] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In... Ang Shaw Boulevard, maraming negosyo dyan. So I assume maraming mga private companies dyan. May nakita na ba kayong cash withdrawal from a private company na ganito kalaki in the hundreds of millions?

**[01:19:23.180] Violeta Constantino**  
Mostly po mga cheque po yung ini-issue nila.

**[01:19:26.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Cheque? Meron

**[01:19:27.440] Violeta Constantino**  
bang

**[01:19:27.620] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
mga cash withdrawal din sa private companies?

**[01:19:31.360] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po.

**[01:19:32.220] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Wala, puro cheque lang ang ini-issue nila.

**[01:19:37.860] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Nabanggit nyo kanina na apat na beses pumunta sila Miss Acosta at si Mr.

**[01:19:47.650] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ortonio sa inyo. Tama po ba? Apat na beses?

**[01:19:52.030] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:19:53.380] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Nung nag-withdraw sila, meron ba kayong any casual talk kung saan gagamitin itong mga perang ito? Kasi sabi nyo nga kanina, unusual. Ngayon lang kayo nakakita. Hindi ba nagkaroon kayo ng konting parang casual talk sa pangatlo o pang-apat na pagkita ninyo kung saan gagamitin itong perang ito?

**[01:20:13.820] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na po ma-recall, Your Honor.

**[01:20:16.500] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
I'm sure nag-uusap kayo, di ba?

**[01:20:18.620] Violeta Constantino**  
Yeah, brief talk.

**[01:20:19.820] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Brief talk. Mayroon bang nasabi kung saan gagamitin itong perang ito?

**[01:20:23.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na nga po maalala. Sorry po.

**[01:20:25.780] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Hindi nyo na maalala? Okay. And then... Kanina nasa tanong rin ni Senator Bam. Typically, rinireport to sa AMLAC. Yung mga ganitong kalaking amount. Nai-report nyo ito? Hindi yung detalya. Ang tanong lang naman kung na-report yung ganitong kalaking cash withdrawal sa AMLAC.

**[01:20:50.670] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang alam ko po ang land bank naman po ay compliant po sila when it comes to reporting po.

**[01:20:57.550] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So, nare-report siya?

**[01:21:00.060] Violeta Constantino**  
Kumlayan po kami doon. Alright.

**[01:21:01.640] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[01:21:07.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Pangilinan is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready.

**[01:21:15.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you.

**[01:21:16.980] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Magandang umaga. Magandang

**[01:21:18.660] Violeta Constantino**  
umaga po.

**[01:21:21.020] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Unang-una, si Gina Acosta, kilala ninyong bilang Special Disbursing Officer, tama? As

**[01:21:27.690] Violeta Constantino**  
pay po ng cheque.

**[01:21:28.890] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Hindi bilang Special Disbursing Officer? Hindi po. Kung siya ang pay, Hindi, at sinabi nyo iba ang tumatawag sa inyo na two days in advance? Diba po. Diba? Sino yung sinabi nyo tumatawag? Si

**[01:21:44.420] Violeta Constantino**  
Ms. Queeneng Masangkay po.

**[01:21:45.840] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Ms. Masangkay. Opo. Bakit iba? Would you know, if you know, bakit iba yung pay, iba yung tumatawag?

**[01:21:53.960] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po kang idea kasi it's under the agency po kung sino pong gusto nilang. Gawing payee po.

**[01:22:00.190] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Pero bakit si Masangkay ay kilala mo?

**[01:22:04.430] Violeta Constantino**  
Nagpakilala

**[01:22:04.970] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
siya? Did you meet each other?

**[01:22:06.790] Violeta Constantino**  
Na-meet ko po siya kasi po nung bago po sila mag-open ang account po sa amin, so nag-visit po sila sa branch.

**[01:22:14.670] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay, so you knew her personally and therefore siya ang tumatawag. Pero ang payee ay si Gina Acosta. In other accounts, would you know? Or would you have experience na ganun din? Iba yung payee, iba yung tumatawag? I suppose, yes, no?

**[01:22:31.510] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po akong idea.

**[01:22:32.910] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay, okay. Doon sa nabanggit niyong first time ang ganyang kalaking halaga, kaya sabi niyo unusual.

**[01:22:43.250] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Meron pa bang ibang ahensya? Tama bang sabihin? Walang ibang ahensya ng pamalaan ang naglalabas ng ganyang kalaking pera? sa inyong accounts, sa inyong branch, dahil kayo ay depository ng government bank, hindi ba?

**[01:23:01.240] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala na po kong ma-recall kasi nga po, kagaya sabi ko kanina, lahat po ay nakonverta po sila sa mga online transactions.

**[01:23:08.440] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
And most government agencies would use checks.

**[01:23:14.240] Violeta Constantino**  
Checks or online transactions. Or

**[01:23:16.140] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
online transactions. Okay, so...

**[01:23:22.550] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
And sinabi nyo, ang average na cash transaction sa inyong withdrawals, apart from yung 125 million na cash, yung average is about 500,000, tama? Yung average amount ng cash.

**[01:23:39.050] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede po or lower than that. Kung cash po. Yes, yes.

**[01:23:42.390] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So, malaki yung agwat, no?

**[01:23:44.290] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo. And

**[01:23:45.210] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
that's why you say it's unusual.

**[01:23:46.750] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:23:47.390] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay.

**[01:23:49.310] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
I have no other questions, Mr. President, Presiding Officer. Just to manifest that earlier, the witness said that she's bound by the confidentiality rule under the AMLA law. We take exception to that, but I understand that we will be tackling this matter in another article. We will not concede that you cannot disclose this information, this being the impeachment court, but it being. Dahil ito 'y

**[01:24:17.580] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
itatakal sa ibang articles of incorporation, we will not pursue it at this time. I mean the articles of impeachment rather. Is it Article 2? Then we will not insist and we will not push the issue at this time. For the record,

**[01:24:35.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mr. President. Noted. But Chair would also like to place on the record that While indeed the court issued a subpoena vis-a-vis the AMLC, the provision of the law on the confidentiality with respect to bank officers are indeed provided for in the AMLC. That bank officers are those authorized to report both suspicious transactions and those exceeding 500,000 are not allowed to disclose whether or not they report. And thank you, Ms. Constantina, for being very...

**[01:25:13.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Cooperative and at the same time prudent with respect to your answers regarding the AMLC provision. Dahil kayo po yung madedimanda kung sakasakaling, hindi naman po kami. If there are no other, Senator Judge Aimee, before we go on a second round. Senator Judge Aimee, thereafter, Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo for a second round, Senator Judge Ontiveros for a second round, and Senator Judge Raffi for a second round. Senator Aimee, you may proceed when you're ready. And you have two minutes, ma'am.

**[01:25:42.780] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Thank you very much, Presiding Judge. And this is a very simple question by way of information to the prosecution. During the Blue Ribbon Committee, a certain Jean Abaya was called as a resource person. As I recall, she was then the operations head of Land Bank Shaw and assumed the position of department manager thereafter. I understand, of course, that the prosecution has the right to choose your witnesses. I am simply curious, bakit hindi pinatawag si Ms. Abaya na mag-testigo ngayon, samantalang siya yung may personal knowledge ng encashment ng mga cheque na pinag-uusapan?

**[01:26:19.880] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, at that time, when this cheque was encashed, ang ating testigo, siya po ang branch manager. Hindi po si yung nabanggit po ninyo.

**[01:26:35.830] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yes, alam ko na siya yung branch manager pero yung operations head at that time, si Jean Abaya. As a matter of fact, she was even able to say that the entire amount of the checks was withdrawn each encashment. So, ang lumalabas doon sa house hearing, kung naaalala kong maigi, si Ms. Abaya ang direct ng nakipag-deal kay Ms. Acosta, di ba?

**[01:27:02.260] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, kung maririnig po natin yung kanyang salaysay, siya po kasi yung nakikipag-coordinate sa OBP.

**[01:27:11.100] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Siya yung nakikipag-coordinate? Or sino ang direktang nakikipag-usap kay Ms. Abaya kung gano'n? Kay Ms. Acosta, sorry. Di ba si Jean Abaya?

**[01:27:22.160] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede po

**[01:27:22.640] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
akong sumagot.

**[01:27:22.740] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yun ang pagkaintindi ko doon sa House hearing eh.

**[01:27:25.280] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede po akong sumagot. Yes, please. Si Jean Abaya po, siya po yung next in rank. Nung ako po ay branch manager. Siya yung? Next in

**[01:27:33.800] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
my rank. Oo, yeah. Pero siya ba yung director nakipag-deal kay Ms. Acosta ng Deped?

**[01:27:39.060] Violeta Constantino**  
Ako po ang director sa OVP po.

**[01:27:42.600] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Nakakapagtaka lang kung bakit nung house hearing, si Ms. Abaya ang siyang nagsabi ng direktahan na yung entire amount ng cheque was withdrawn each encashment. Hindi po kayo. Ba't nagkaganon?

**[01:27:56.460] Violeta Constantino**  
Your Honor, bali po si Gina Abaya po ang... naging incumbent manager, siya po yung pumalit sa akin as branch manager. So at that time, tinanong po nga siya. So since operations manager po siya, aware din po siya sa transaksyon. Pero natanong din po siya kung sinong direct ang kumakausap sa... Cash division staff. So, kaya po ako napatawa.

**[01:28:20.360] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Kayo yung direct ang nakipag-usap? Opo. Kahit siya ang nag-attest na talagang buong amount ang win it draw? Aware

**[01:28:27.220] Violeta Constantino**  
naman po siya sa mga transactions nito sa branch.

**[01:28:29.860] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Okay. Maliban doon, Ms. Constantino, nung house sa Blue Ribbon, Narinig ko, nung tinanong ni Congressman Luistro, sino ang nag-withdraw ng pera at linagay sa mga bag, nung una, sabi niyo, you didn't recall. Matapos nun, medyo may leading question si Congresswoman nun eh. Kasi ang sabi, do you recall Ms. Acosta? Do you recall Mr. Antonio? Bigla ninyong naalala si Ms. Acosta at si Mr. Antonio? Tama ba yun? Ba't nagkaganon? Nung una hindi ninyo maalala, pagkatapos nun naalala na ninyo. Ano ba talaga

**[01:29:07.670] Violeta Constantino**  
ang naaalala ninyo para klaro tayo? Pwede po ba nating balikan po kung yung transcript po talaga? Kasi baka po mamaya, baka lang po, I'm sorry, may iba pong issue before. Tapos po natanong ako kung bakit ko po kilala yung dalawa. Kasi nung una,

**[01:29:25.190] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
tinatanong. Kung nare-recall ninyo, sino naglagay ng pera sa mga bag? Sabi po ninyo na hindi ninyo maalala. Tama ba yun?

**[01:29:36.900] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang pagkakaalala ko po...

**[01:29:38.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sorry

**[01:29:40.360] Violeta Constantino**  
po. Ang pagkakaalala ko po... Sinagot ko po yun na si Miss Gina ang naglagay si Mr. Ortonio. Ang hindi ko po ma-recall kung sino po yung naglabas na ng cash. Hindi

**[01:29:54.720] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
ko tinatanong yun. Hindi yun ang tinutukoy ko. Ang tinutukoy ko... Yung paiba-ibang sagot, kasi nung una sabi nyo, hindi ninyo maalala kung sino naglagay ng pera sa bag. Pakatapos nung binanggit sa inyo, do you recall, Ms. Acosta, do you recall, Mr. Ortonio, naalala ninyo kung sino naglagay na yung dalawa? Bakit ganun? Yun lang po.

**[01:30:24.520] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Considering that Ms. Acosta is allegedly the payee, bakit hindi ninyo naalala ka agad? Doon ako nagtataka.

**[01:30:33.430] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po akong matandaan na hindi ko ma-recall po yung naglagay ng pera sa bags. Ang alam ko po, na-recall ko kung sino po ang naglabas ng bags.

**[01:30:44.540] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Okay, balikan na lang po natin yung transcript sa lower house at baka maipaliwanag ninyo sa amin na maigi. Maraming salamat. The

**[01:30:54.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
lady may avail for round two. With the permission of Senators Erwin Tulfo, Ontiveros, and Rafi Tulfo, Chair would like to acknowledge Senator Luxon for sensitive this first round to ask questions. Thereafter, we will be recognizing in this order Senators Erwin Tulfo, Senator Ontiveros, and Senator Rafi Tulfo. For their second round. Senator Lacson, may proceed. Thank you, Mr.

**[01:31:17.390] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Presiding Officer. Hindi po ako magtatanong. I will only make a manifestation. I'm only wondering why neither the prosecution nor the defense is presenting a competent witness in the handling of intelligence and confidential fund. Kasi po, in my previous life, sa intelligence, sa law enforcement, ang natatandaan ko, kasi limited yung purpose. ng intelligence at saka confidential fund. Nagtataka lang ako, nakita ko yung regularity ng withdrawals, ng cash, parang every quarter except for December, December 20. So sana kung para ma-educate kami at saka magkaroon kami ng informed decision later on, sana na meron tayong competent witness sa pag-handle ng intelligence fund or confidential fund. Para sa ganun naman, ma-appreciate namin. At matanong din namin sa sarili namin, regular ba yung every quarter? Kasi January, April, tapos July, di ba? Parang regular eh. Ang alam ko, pagka may pangangailangan, dahil merong intelligence gathering operation, may confidential activities, saka palang mangangailangan ng pera. So yun lang, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[01:32:36.180] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
The

**[01:32:36.820] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
defense may also...

**[01:32:40.770] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
respond or comment with the prosecution. Thank you. We

**[01:32:45.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
will recognize both sides but recognize first to respond to the inquiry of the manifestation rather of Senator Judge Lacson, the Honorable Chua. You may proceed, sir.

**[01:32:53.810] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, we will be presenting our witness pero hindi po siya yung tetestigo po pagdating po dyan. In time po, we will be presenting witness or witnesses that will explain. Yung manner po ng confidential funds.

**[01:33:12.210] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
As my staff, wala po sa listahan ng testigo na meron tayong competent witness.

**[01:33:18.370] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
So saan ang galing yung sinasabing yung may pre-presenteo? Yung COA po. COA is not a competent witness sa paghandal ng intelligence and confidential funds. Somebody... Your Honor,

**[01:33:30.010] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
meron

**[01:33:30.270] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
po kasi kaming reservation. A retired intelligence officer. You know, somebody like that na maalam. Mag-handle. Nagtataka lang mo bakit masyadong regular, tapos yung una pa, natapat pa na magpapasko?

**[01:33:46.370] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Your Honor. May pe-present po kami, pero kung makikita po ninyo dun sa aming pre-trial brief, meron po dun reservation. Thank you. Thank you. Confidential pa daw po.

**[01:33:58.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Honorable Attorney, or rather, is recognized for your comment to the manifestation of Senator Lacson. Thank

**[01:34:05.210] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
you,

**[01:34:05.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mr. Siding

**[01:34:05.910] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Officer. Same comment, actually, with the prosecution, Your Honors. Meron din po kasi tayong mga reservations. So we will present when we feel necessary, Your Honor. Sa ngayon nga, confidential pa din

**[01:34:15.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
yung witness. Senator Erwin Tulfo is recognized for his availment of round 2. You may proceed, sir. You have 2 minutes.

**[01:34:29.290] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Miss Witness, ito po ang transaksyon na 125, 4 times yata ito. Tama po ba?

**[01:34:40.150] Violeta Constantino**  
Tama po.

**[01:34:40.870] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright. Hindi po ninyo na-report ito sa AMLAC?

**[01:34:45.180] Violeta Constantino**  
Gaya po, nasabi ko po, na-invoke ko po yung AMLA rule prohibiting us to disclose po any information regarding that.

**[01:34:53.670] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
No, I'm not saying na you have to disclose to us, pero I'm saying, kailangan po bang i-report ito? Kasi ma'am, ayon po sa AMLAC law natin, covered po, ang lahat po ng government transactions ng government agencies. Tama po ba? Do you agree to that? Yes

**[01:35:15.840] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
po.

**[01:35:16.420] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
At saka, another thing, ito po ba, ang transaction na ito ay nasa ilalim ng list of due and demandable accounts, payable, LDDAP, at saka, meron po ba itong advice to debit account, ADA?

**[01:35:33.980] Violeta Constantino**  
Meron po silang advice na nai-issue po yan.

**[01:35:36.580] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay, pero... Nasa ilalim po ba ito ng LDDAP? Yung list of due and demandable accounts? I

**[01:35:44.670] Violeta Constantino**  
think agency na po ang pwedeng sumagot po regarding this.

**[01:35:49.830] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay. Alright. That's all, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you, Senator Judge

**[01:35:55.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Erwin Tulfo. Senator Judge Risa Antiveras for her second round. You may proceed, ma'am. When you're ready, you have two minutes.

**[01:36:11.110] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Madam Witness, yung unusual pa rin. Bago ibang tanong. Sinabi nyo kanina sa prosecution may cash involved limit. Magkano po yung cash involved limit?

**[01:36:28.490] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa branch po

**[01:36:29.910] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
namin. Sa branch ninyo.

**[01:36:32.890] Violeta Constantino**  
Pwede ko bang hindi sagutin po yan for security. Ah, alright. Then hindi ko itatanong yung follow-up question doon.

**[01:36:41.010] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Ito na lang. Sabi po ninyo, wala ang branch ninyo ng ganyang amount. Kung pwede nyo sabihin, magkano po ang halaga na meron ang branch nyo?

**[01:36:53.050] Violeta Constantino**  
Malaki po kasi amount. So in any given day po kasi talagang wala po kami branch. So pwede ko po in average kung ano lang po yung sa tingin namin na kasha po yung during the operational transactions po ng branch. Magkano po

**[01:37:08.690] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
yung average na yun sa branch nyo? Transactions for the day?

**[01:37:12.810] Violeta Constantino**  
For us, mga ano po. Maybe, mga, sorry po,

**[01:37:16.210] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
mga 20M po. 20M. So ito pong 125 million ay times 6 po dun sa average na transaction sa branch nyo in a given day. Opo. Okay. And then, sabi nyo rin po kanina sa prosecution, kailangang tawagan ang cash center ninyo para i-transact yung amount. Magkano po yung floor ulit na halaga? Para kailangan nyong tawagan ang cash center ninyo?

**[01:37:47.410] Violeta Constantino**  
Any cash requirements naman po ay tinatawag namin sa cash center po namin for assistance.

**[01:37:55.610] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay. Would you say anything above 20 million, kailangan kayong tumawag sa cash center?

**[01:38:03.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Kahit po less than, basta po requirement po namin sa branch for that day, sa daily operations po namin.

**[01:38:10.190] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
And yung 125 million na yun ay lampas sa kaya ng branch nyo in that day? Opo.

**[01:38:16.290] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay. Kaya

**[01:38:17.330] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
unusual ang sinabi nyo kanina sa prosecution. Okay po. In total, kalahating bilyong piso in cash ang minidraw ng Office of the Vice President sa branch ninyo. Sa experience nyo po, karaniwan rin po bang mag-withdraw ang isang ahensya ng ganyang halaga, kalahating bilyong piso, in cash, sa loob lamang ng walong buwan?

**[01:38:42.620] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko po yun masasagot kasi yung agency po maybe ang dapat pong sumagot about it.

**[01:38:48.430] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Pero para sa branch po ninyo, naranasan nyo na po ba in the higit tatlong dekadang nagtrabaho kayo sa land bank na merong alinmang ahensyang nag-withdraw ng ganyang halaga, kalahating bilyong piso in cash sa loob lamang ng less than three quarters of a year?

**[01:39:06.630] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala po akong ma-recall kasi mostly nga po ang sabi ko ay puro through online or ang transactions na po nila or cheque.

**[01:39:14.350] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
At bilang branch manager,

**[01:39:18.380] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
sinigurado nyo po ba na otorizado talaga ni Vice President yung pag-withdraw ng kalahating bilyong piso?

**[01:39:27.500] Violeta Constantino**  
Meron naman po kasi silang in-issue advice. So binasin naman po natin yung checking na in-issue kay Ms. Jean Acosta na ito po ay may advice na po and funded.

**[01:39:38.460] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Alright. So batay dun sa issue advice ni Ms. Jean Acosta, yun na yung pagtitiyak nyo na otorizado ni VP yung pag-withdraw nitong kalahating bilyong piso in cash. Salamat po. Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Last two questions if there's a final round. Salamat po. Thank you, Senator

**[01:39:55.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Judge Riza. Senator Judge Rafi Tulfo for his availment of round two. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. You have two minutes.

**[01:40:07.200] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Madam Witness, how are government agency accounts being opened sa land bank? Ano yung proseso po?

**[01:40:14.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Pakialit po, sir.

**[01:40:15.760] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Ano po yung proseso para yung isang government... ay makapag-open ng account sa land bank?

**[01:40:23.150] Violeta Constantino**  
Meron pong request na galing po sa kanila. At the same time po, meron din pong approval from the Bureau of Treasury na mag-open po sila ng account sa amin. So once approved na po ito, ay ma-open na po yung account sa land bank. Very

**[01:40:37.890] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
good. Now, sa kaso po ng OVP, sino po yung nag-open na account? Sino po yung pumunta sa banko ninyo para i-open yung account ng OVP?

**[01:40:45.610] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang alam ko po, nag-inquire po yung head po ng agency. Huwag pong

**[01:40:48.830] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
alam ko. Sino po talaga? Sigurado dapat kayo.

**[01:40:51.830] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung head po ng Castivation.

**[01:40:53.790] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Nila? Opo. Okay. Ano po yung mga present ng dokumento para magpapatunay na sila po yung authorized talaga na mag-open account on behalf of the OBP?

**[01:41:05.240] Violeta Constantino**  
Gaya po, nasabi ko nga po kanina, yung pong request nila na mag-open account. At at the same time, yung approval po ng Bureau of Treasury na sila po ay allowed po mag-open ang account sa amin.

**[01:41:17.500] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
I don't know kung nasa niyo po yung question kanina. Sino po yung person na pumunta doon para mag-presenta na ako'y from OBP at nagpakita ng dokumento at ako'y authorized person to represent the OBP for this account?

**[01:41:28.780] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung head po ng cash division po ng OBP. And

**[01:41:31.180] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
what is your name again? Anong pangalan niya po?

**[01:41:35.720] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na po ma-recall yung head po. Yung isa po kasi staff niya po yan, si

**[01:41:40.060] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Miss Queenie. So pagdating niya po doon sa banko, meron po siyang siguradong, siguradong binabanggit ng mga taong point person na para pumunta sa banko para mag-withdraw at sino yung mga signatories, et cetera, et cetera. Tama?

**[01:41:57.880] Violeta Constantino**  
Pakiulit po ang tanong, Your Honor.

**[01:42:00.160] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Kasi po yung sa cash division, Hindi mo na maalala ang pangalan ng tao ulit?

**[01:42:04.530] Violeta Constantino**  
Yung head

**[01:42:04.950] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
ng cash division, hindi ko na po ma-recall. Okay, sige. Yung head ng cash division, pumunta doon ng

**[01:42:09.670] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
copy ng account. Doon, nagkakaroon na agad ng arrangement para sabihin sa inyo na ang pwede lang mag-withdraw ay si ganito at kasama si ganito.

**[01:42:20.320] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala pong ganong arrangement.

**[01:42:22.100] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wala?

**[01:42:22.860] Violeta Constantino**  
Wala pong ganun. O

**[01:42:23.880] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
dapat merong arrangement para malaman ninyo kung sino yung point person ng OBP para tumawag sa inyo at sino ka yung nagde-designate ng point person to coordinate from the OBP to land bank.

**[01:42:37.320] Violeta Constantino**  
I'm sorry po, ang pagka-intindi ko po kung sino po yung in-issue nila ng cheque, ganun po ba?

**[01:42:43.040] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
No, sino yung taong nagsasabi sa land bank na ito lamang ang recognize namin na tumawag. at the day of the withdrawal. At ito lamang ang pwedeng pumirma sa cheque, et cetera, et cetera.

**[01:42:54.510] Violeta Constantino**  
There

**[01:42:54.970] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
has to be one person.

**[01:42:56.390] Violeta Constantino**  
As to authorized signatories po, aware naman po yung agency kung sino po yung mga authorized pumirma. Ngayon po, kung sino po

**[01:43:04.130] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
yung... No, no,

**[01:43:04.390] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
no, sorry. You're listening but you're not hearing me. Sino po yung tao na nagsabi sa land bank na, hey, land bank, ito lamang mga tao ang pwedeng kumontak sa inyo ang pwedeng mag-withdraw, period. Sino yun?

**[01:43:17.270] Violeta Constantino**  
Ang pagkakalam ko po, yun pong sina Asic or Tonio po.

**[01:43:28.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Sila po kasi yung officers po. So did they go

**[01:43:31.910] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
personally sa land bank or through telephone lamang?

**[01:43:35.360] Violeta Constantino**  
Sa pagkakaalala ko po, meron po silang written communication po sa amin.

**[01:43:41.700] Violeta Constantino**  
So how did you know

**[01:43:42.660] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
na sila talaga yun nasa written communication?

**[01:43:45.390] Violeta Constantino**  
Nakipresent po sila ng mga IDs nila. Doon po sa pagkakalala ko po. So they

**[01:43:48.870] Violeta Constantino**  
went

**[01:43:49.090] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
to land back personally?

**[01:43:50.830] Violeta Constantino**  
Yes.

**[01:43:51.810] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
And then they presented documents to prove na they are that person?

**[01:43:55.470] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo. Sorry po, pwede pong mag-bat

**[01:43:59.070] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
in.

**[01:44:00.310] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali po doon sa pagkakalala ko po, sa binibigyan ng dokumento, mayroon na rin pong photocopy ng mga IDs po nila.

**[01:44:07.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank

**[01:44:07.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you. Thank you, Senator

**[01:44:10.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Judge Tulfo. Senator Judge Pangilinan is recognized.

**[01:44:27.610] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Yung cheque na winidraw o pinisenta sa inyo, December 20, 2022. Tama? Ang date? Opo. Opo.

**[01:44:35.750] Violeta Constantino**  
December 20, 2022.

**[01:44:37.790] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
At kinuha yung pera on the same day, December 20.

**[01:44:42.230] Violeta Constantino**  
Opo.

**[01:44:42.970] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So, kung sabi niyo kanina, unusual yung... Malaking halaga. Unusual din o usual ba yun? Yung ganong halaga, same day naka-date, same day din i-withdraw? Ganon?

**[01:44:59.540] Violeta Constantino**  
Bali nga po. Mabilis ba

**[01:45:01.880] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
yun?

**[01:45:02.640] Violeta Constantino**  
May prior notice po sila, ang agency, na magkakaroon po sila ng ganong encashment. Two days before? Opo. So, yung pong December naman po kasi pwede naman po nilang gawin yun on the same day. Kasi po pag December, mayroong regulation naman po ang Bureau of Treasury kapag po December, hindi na po natin siya inihintay ang 24 hours to 48 hours na ano po. Yes,

**[01:45:29.440] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
but if you combine both, the huge amount which is unusual and the same day dated check and the same day withdrawal, is that usual?

**[01:45:40.600] Violeta Constantino**  
So, tingin ko naman po, usual

**[01:45:42.280] Violeta Constantino**  
naman po siya.

**[01:45:43.220] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So, the only thing unusual is that it is a huge amount which you've never experienced in your 30 years. Yes,

**[01:45:51.120] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Your Honor. Okay. And so, tinatawag sa'yo two days before kahit hindi pa handa yung cheque, in other words.

**[01:46:00.080] Violeta Constantino**  
Hindi ko na lang po alam sa side nila.

**[01:46:02.860] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Two days before. Oh, yeah. Pero posible. Two days before, December 18. 17, hindi pa nahahanda yung cheque, pero ihahanda nila, pininotify na kayo.

**[01:46:14.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[01:46:16.620] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Maraming salamat. Thank you.

**[01:46:18.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Pangilinan. Senator Judge Antiveros, for the final round, for your last two questions, I believe, or no more? No more? If there are no other interventions or interjections from the Senator Judges, the Presiding Officer would like... Would like to excuse you already, Ma'am Violeta Constantino.

**[01:46:37.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank

**[01:46:37.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you very much, Ma'am, for your time. Salamat po sa inyong kooperasyon. Magandang umaga po.

**[01:46:45.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mananghalian po muna kayo dyan bago kayo umuwi.

**[01:46:59.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Senator Judge Pangilinan.

**[01:47:07.180] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Very

**[01:47:07.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. The gentleman may proceed.

**[01:47:12.000] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Thank you. About the non-disclosure by covered transactions. We just have to distinguish, para sa interest lang ng mga nagtatanong, ang covered institutions na hindi pwede mag-disclose ang mga bangko

**[01:47:27.080] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
ng

**[01:47:27.960] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
AMLA records. Pero ang AMLA mismo, hindi siya at least the position of the impeachment court. It's not covered by the confidentiality of record. That was

**[01:47:38.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
what the chair said earlier. That was contained in the ruling of the

**[01:47:42.900] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
court.

**[01:47:43.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Thank you, Senator.

**[01:47:44.450] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Thank you, Mr. President.

**[01:47:44.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you.

**[01:47:46.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the permission of the parties, it's 11.42 so that we can cut clean. We can pause for lunch and resume at 12.15 for a 30-minute lunch break.

**[01:48:02.200] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor, before anything, just a quick manifestation, Your Honor.

**[01:48:09.680] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your

**[01:48:10.240] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor, if I may be recognized.

**[01:48:11.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel for Respondent is recognized.

**[01:48:13.480] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Mukhang naiwan po yata ng witness natin itong certification. If I may just turn it over.

**[01:48:20.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[01:48:22.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly give it to the Council for the panel of prosecutors. Your Honor,

**[01:48:28.100] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
may we know what is

**[01:48:28.800] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
the content of the document? Thank you.

**[01:48:35.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Based on popular request, 1230 then. We resume at 12.30 for the next witness of the prosecution in the person of Ms. Nanita Campuzano.

**[01:48:46.680] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
That's okay with us, sir.

**[01:48:47.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
From the panel of prosecutors, that's okay?

**[01:48:51.480] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, that's okay with us, sir.

**[01:48:53.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Then we shall go on recess and shall resume at 12.30.

**[02:37:01.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Representative Chua, kindly call your next witness so that she can situate herself at the witness stand.

**[02:37:09.570] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor,

**[02:37:10.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
we

**[02:37:11.630] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
are calling our next witness in the person of Ms. Ninita Camposano.

**[02:37:17.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ms. Ninita Camposano, you are directed to kindly proceed to the witness stand.

**[02:37:28.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please remain standing. Clerk of Court is directed to subscribe the witness. Put the witness under oath, rather.

**[02:37:38.590] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Ms. Camposano, please raise your right hand. You, Ninita Camposano, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Givermanto-Terte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

**[02:38:01.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly speak to the mic, ma'am. Does the stenographer can get your answer?

**[02:38:06.840] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:38:08.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may be seated, ma'am.

**[02:38:14.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Representative Chua, you are a witness. You may proceed when you're ready with your offer.

**[02:38:18.880] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, we are offering the testimony of Ms. Ninita Camposano to prove the following, Your Honor. Number one,

**[02:38:33.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
na si Ms. Ninita Camposano ay isang reteradong empleyado ng land bank. Department Branch from

**[02:38:46.800] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
May 2022 to September 2022. Ay 24, Your Honor.

**[02:38:58.420] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pangalawa, na si Ms. Ninita Campuzano ay dating Department Manager ng Land Bank of the Philippines DepEd Branch.

**[02:39:13.550] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ikatlo, Land

**[02:39:17.740] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bank of the Philippines DepEd Branch Ang nagproseso ng encashment ng tatlong cheque na nagkakahalaga ng 37.5 million pesos bawat isa. Ang lahat ay pinasok sa account ng Department of Education with

**[02:39:45.570] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
the following checks details, Your Honor. Number 1, Land Bank Check Number 0000.

**[02:40:00.150] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Dated February 20, 2023. At payable sa isang Mr. Edward D. Fajarda for 37.5 million. Pangalawa, land bank check number 000000964. Dated April 19, 2023.

**[02:40:28.760] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Payable again sa isang Mr. Edward D. Fajarda for P37.5 million. Ikatlo, land bank check number 0000002250 dated July 11, 2023. Payable sa isang Mr. Edward D. Fajarda for P37.5 million.

**[02:41:02.030] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ikaapat, na ang mga nasabing check, Your Honor, ay personal na in-encash ni Mr. Edward Fajarda bilang Special Disbursing Officer ng Department of Education noong February 22, 2023, April 26, 2023, at July 13, 2023.

**[02:41:36.690] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kalima, bilang Department Manager ng Land Bank DepEd Branch, si Ms. Camposano ay personal na nakasaksi at nag-oversee ng pag-encash at pagtanggap ng pera mula sa cheque ni Mr. Fajarda.

**[02:42:03.180] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Kaanim, iba pang mga bagay-bagay na may kinalaman at mahalaga. dito sa impeachment case na may kaugnayan sa Article 1 on confidential funds at may relasyon sa mga nabanggit na dahilan. For comment, Your Honor.

**[02:42:24.040] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Counsel for the Respondent, Attorney Poa. Thank you and good afternoon, Your Honors. Your Honors, again, for the purpose of expediency, Your Honors, the defense is willing to stipulate on the checks. As well as the details on the face of the check, which would be the dates, the payee, the signatures therein, as well as the dorsal portion and that the checks were verified. It went through the teller and that they were approved, Your Honor.

**[02:42:51.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
How about the qualification of the witness as to being able to identify the checks that she was the former department manager and worked at Land Bank from May 22? 2022 to September 2024.

**[02:43:06.240] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
As the former branch manager, we are willing to stipulate as well as her ability to identify these checks, Your Honor. Having

**[02:43:12.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
so stipulated, Chair would like for the information of the Senator-Judges, kindly flash as I read the details of the check so that we are in agreement as to what is being stipulated to by the respondent.

**[02:43:32.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
First is land bank check number 000000453 payable to Edward D. Fajarda in the amount of 37.5 million dated February 20, 2023 and encast on February 22, 2023. Second is land bank check number 000000964 payable to Edward D. Fajarda in the amount of 37,500,000 pesos dated April 19, 2023 and then cashed on April 26, 2023. And finally, Landbank check number 0000002250 payable to Edward D. Fajarda in the amount of 37.5 million dated July 11, 2023 and encashed on July 13, 2023. The respondent is stipulating as to the authenticity due execution and all the information contained in the face of the check. as well as the dorsal side of the check, including the verification made by the responsible bank officers as regards the payee and the disbursement of the amounts mentioned on the face of the check, as well as all of the stampings in the dorsal side of the check. This is a common exhibit of both parties. On the part, again for the record, on the part of the defense, it's...

**[02:45:17.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
P Roman numeral number 128E to P Roman numeral number 28E-1. And P Roman numeral number 28F to P Roman numeral number 128F1. P Roman numeral number 28G to P Roman numeral number 28G-1. And on the part of the defense, the respondent rather, it is exhibit D Roman numeral number 1112DE. To D, Roman numeral number 1112DE1 for check ending 453. And D, Roman numeral number 1113DE and D, Roman numeral number 1113DE-1 for check ending in 964. And D, Roman numeral number 1114DE to D, Roman numeral number 1114DE-1 for check ending 2250. Do you confirm, Sir? We

**[02:46:11.890] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
confirm that, Your Honor. Do

**[02:46:12.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you confirm, Representative Chua? We confirm, Your Honor. You may proceed accordingly, Sir, given the stipulation and admission of the Council for Respondent in so far as the other matters you wish this witness to prove. You may proceed, Sir. Thank

**[02:46:28.190] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
you, Your Honor. Your Honor, one more stipulation if the Council, one more proposal if the Council for the Defense is willing to stipulate, Your Honor.

**[02:46:39.710] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
If they are willing to stipulate that the three land bank checks were funded by the Philippine Treasury for the account of the Department of Education, Office of the Secretary. We stipulate, Your Honor.

**[02:46:53.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[02:46:53.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated. So, we

**[02:46:56.230] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
will now proceed. You

**[02:46:57.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may now proceed to the other matters, Counsel, in your reminder of the stipulations and admissions so that we save on the court's time. Yes,

**[02:47:03.970] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor.

**[02:47:04.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now, Madam

**[02:47:06.270] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Witness.

**[02:47:08.740] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Pupunta tayo sa proseso ng encashment ng cheque. Now, Madam Witness, pwede bang malaman namin ano ang proseso ng encashment ng tatlong cheque na nabanggit po kanina kung maalala po ninyo?

**[02:47:26.600] Nenita Camposano**  
Pare-parehas naman po ang proseso doon sa tatlong cheque. So, ang una po ay tatawag po sa amin ng... Cash Division ng DepEd para magpa-reserve ng pera.

**[02:47:39.990] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, sabi mo tatawag sa inyo ang Cash Division ng DepEd. Yes. Now, ang tanong ko po, sino sa Cash Division ng DepEd ang tumatawag po sa inyo?

**[02:47:57.270] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang tumatawag po sa akin ay si Miss Sonia De Leon po, ang Chief Admin po ng... Cash Division and Department of Education.

**[02:48:07.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the permission of Representative Chua, can you pronounce the name more distinctly, ma'am? Ano pong pangalan? Sonia?

**[02:48:13.830] Nenita Camposano**  
Sonia De Leon. De

**[02:48:15.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Leon?

**[02:48:16.720] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:48:18.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
D-E-L-E-O-N.

**[02:48:20.060] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:48:21.280] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
You may proceed, Representative Chua. Thank you, Your Honor. So sabi mo, tatawag sa inyo. Sinong sa inyo? Sa

**[02:48:27.280] Nenita Camposano**  
akin po.

**[02:48:27.980] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, pwede po namin malaman, paano mo nakilala? Itong si Miss Sonia De Leon ng Cash Division ng DepEd.

**[02:48:38.750] Nenita Camposano**  
Siya po ang head ng Cash Division ng DepEd at siya rin po ang palaging namin nakakausap regarding sa mga transactions po ng DepEd. Okay.

**[02:48:51.050] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bakit kailangan tumawag ni Miss Sonia De Leon sa inyo po?

**[02:48:59.660] Nenita Camposano**  
Regarding sa encashment po?

**[02:49:02.650] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes. Bakit kailangan niyang tumawag? Anong dahilan?

**[02:49:06.680] Nenita Camposano**  
Kasi po, wala naman po kaming enough cash para dun sa mga cheque na na-mention. Kaya kailangan po niyang tumawag para i-reserva po namin.

**[02:49:18.000] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So sabi ninyo, kaya siya kailangan tumawag dahil kinakailangan i-reserva ninyo. So ngayon, pagkatapos po tumawag ni Ms. Sonia De Leon sa inyo, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari?

**[02:49:32.630] Nenita Camposano**  
Pagkatawag po ni Ma'am Sonia ay ire-relay ko na po yung cash requirement nila sa kahera ko

**[02:49:39.090] Nenita Camposano**  
para po siya ang mag-request sa cash center po ng land bank.

**[02:49:43.450] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So pagkatapos pong tumawag ng kahera ninyo sa cash center ng land bank, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari kung meron man po?

**[02:49:54.970] Nenita Camposano**  
Pagka naitawag na po yun and... dumating na yung pera, tatawagan na rin po namin si Ma'am Sonia para sabihin na available na yung pera. Okay.

**[02:50:05.320] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
So Madam Witness, pakiklarify nga, magkakano po ba yung cash requirement na tinutukoy po ninyo na may kaugnayan dito sa cheque na pinag-uusapan natin?

**[02:50:17.460] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang amount po kasi ng cheque is 37.5. So nasa ganoon din halos yung... amount nung i-request po ng kahera sa cash center namin.

**[02:50:28.990] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So sabi mo, tatawag yung abisuhan ninyo, yung cash center, pagkatapos, ano na po nangyari pagkatapos?

**[02:50:39.590] Nenita Camposano**  
I-request na po yun ng kahera. So the following day, darating na po yun at... Tatawagan na rin po namin sila, Ma'am Sonia, na dumating na yung pera. Available na yung pera for encashment.

**[02:50:52.660] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, pagkatapos po ninyong tawagan si Miss Sonia, ano na po ang susunod na mangyayari?

**[02:51:00.420] Nenita Camposano**  
Darating na po yung pay ng cheque si Mr. Fajarda at i-encash na po niya yung cheque. Okay.

**[02:51:08.500] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
So, Madam Witness, pwede po ba paliwanag din niyo sa amin? Ano ang unang proseso? na ginagawa ni Mr. Fajarda pagpunta po sa inyo sa pag-i-encash ng cheque?

**[02:51:22.300] Nenita Camposano**  
Yung cheque po plus ID niya ay ibibigay po sa verifier para po i-verify yun. Pag na-verify na po yun, ibibigay sa teller for encoding, for validation, posting, ganyan. And then tatawagin din po ang officer for the approval.

**[02:51:41.140] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So kanina binanggit po ninyo yung pangalan. ni Mr. Edward Fajarda. Paano naman po ninyo nakilala si Mr. Edward Fajarda?

**[02:51:51.480] Nenita Camposano**  
Siya po yung pehi ng tseke.

**[02:51:54.350] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
So, bukod po sa pagiging pehi ng tseke, ano po ang experience ninyo? Paano po ninyo nakilala si Mr. Fajarda?

**[02:52:07.420] Nenita Camposano**  
Doon lang po sa mga pininsent niyang identification.

**[02:52:10.440] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So, kailan po yung unang pagkakataon? na nakilala o nakita ninyo si Mr. Edward Fajarda?

**[02:52:19.680] Nenita Camposano**  
Noong pong encashment, noong first check, noong February.

**[02:52:23.460] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, so pagkatapos, napirmahan na ng yung dulong-dulo, sabi po ninyo, na-approve na, napirmahan na, ano na po yung susunod na mangyayari? Kung meron na po.

**[02:52:42.800] Nenita Camposano**  
Kapagka po natapos na po yung proseso namin ng pag-validate ng cheque at pag-approve, tatawagin na po namin si Mr. Fajarda sa backroom. So doon po i-release na po yung cash withdrawal, yung cash encashment.

**[02:52:58.420] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Doon sa backroom, Madam Witness, sino-sino mga nando doon kung maalala po ninyo?

**[02:53:05.860] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang nahan doon po ay ako. Yung teller na mag-release ng pera, yung kahera po si Mr. Fajarda pagkatapos may isa pa po siyang kasama.

**[02:53:18.230] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Ngayon, sabi mo may kasama pa si Mr. Fajarda.

**[02:53:21.950] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. Sino

**[02:53:23.010] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
itong kasama niya kung kilala po ninyo?

**[02:53:25.510] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko na po siya kilala, sir.

**[02:53:27.330] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, sabi mo ninyo, i-release sa backroom yung pera. Okay. So, pagkatapos pong i-release ng teller, Ano na po ang susunod na

**[02:53:39.490] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
mangyayari kung alam po ninyo?

**[02:53:43.690] Nenita Camposano**  
Ilalagay na po yun ni Mr. Fajarda sa dala niyang bag. And then lalabas na po sila dun sa may far exit, sa may back door po namin.

**[02:53:53.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So sabi ninyo may dala si Mr. Fajarda na bag. Anong klaseng bag ba ito kung maalala mo?

**[02:54:02.930] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko na siya actually ma-recall sir. Basta may dalang bag. So

**[02:54:07.910] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
ilang bag? Ang dala ni Mr. Pajarda, kung maalala po ninyo.

**[02:54:14.310] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang recall ko po ay dalawang bag. Dalawang

**[02:54:17.950] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
bag.

**[02:54:18.630] Nenita Camposano**  
Okay.

**[02:54:20.510] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now, Madam Witness, meron ba sa mga empleyado ng inyong bangko ang tumulong o nag-assist kay Mr. Pajarda at sa kasama niya papalabas sa bangko?

**[02:54:33.210] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala po, sir.

**[02:54:34.270] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Bakit po wala?

**[02:54:37.480] Nenita Camposano**  
May policy po tayo na pagka nakuha na po ng kliyente ang pera, hands off na po ang bangko.

**[02:54:45.320] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Bakit po ganito ang polisya ninyo?

**[02:54:48.710] Nenita Camposano**  
Para sa safety din po ng mga empleyado na parang last touch na kung ano man po ang mangyari dun sa pera after hawakan ng kliyente. Hindi na po namin sagot yun.

**[02:55:00.900] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Now Madam Witness, kanina binabanggit ninyo, lumabas sila sa backroom.

**[02:55:06.330] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:55:07.010] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Pag sinabi ninyong backroom, pwede po ba pakidescribe po ninyo saan po itong backroom na itong binabanggit po ninyo?

**[02:55:15.520] Nenita Camposano**  
Yung backroom po ng land bank DepEd branch ay sa may likod. Sa may likod po ng teller. Sa may likod po.

**[02:55:25.730] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. So doon po sila nag-withdraw ng pera at doon din sila lumabas?

**[02:55:31.530] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:55:34.000] Nenita Camposano**  
Sa may far exit.

**[02:55:36.000] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Ang ibig po ninyo sabihin, meron pong pinto doon sa back room papalabas?

**[02:55:43.060] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:55:44.200] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, paglabas po nila dito po sa back exit na sinasabi po ninyo, meron pa po ba silang kasama na sumalubong sa kanila? Kung alam po ninyo.

**[02:55:59.520] Nenita Camposano**  
Paglabas po nila doon sa may backdoor, sa may far exit, hindi na po namin sila nakikita, sir.

**[02:56:05.480] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. Now, Madam Witness, kanina sinabi ninyo itong tatlong cheque na binabanggit po natin. Now, magkakano po yung totality neto na itong tatlong cheque na pinag-uusapan po natin?

**[02:56:20.460] Nenita Camposano**  
Tatlong ano po yan? Tatlong 37.5. So, mga 112.5 million.

**[02:56:27.620] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Okay. No further question, Your Honor.

**[02:56:32.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Finished with direct cross-counsel for respondent. Attorney po? Your Honor, just one or

**[02:56:38.070] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
two questions for cross. You may proceed, sir, with your cross-examination. Thank you, Your Honor. Madam Witness, kanina po kayo po ay nag-sabi na lumabas po sa fire exit sa back room.

**[02:56:50.330] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:56:51.210] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Lumabas po siya sa fire exit dahil po ang land bank ay actually nakadikit sa DepEd compound, hindi po ba?

**[02:56:57.910] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. At

**[02:56:58.710] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
lumabas po siya doon. Para po for sa kanyang safety siguro at hindi na po lumabas sa publiko pa dahil nasa loob na po ang DepEd. Objection,

**[02:57:08.670] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor. Incompetent.

**[02:57:11.260] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
If she knows, witness may answer. Only if you

**[02:57:14.040] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
know, Madam Witness.

**[02:57:16.020] Nenita Camposano**  
The question again, Sir?

**[02:57:17.800] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Lumabas po siya sa fire exit dahil safer po yun dahil nasa loob na po siya ng DepEd. Tama po ba?

**[02:57:23.980] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Sir.

**[02:57:24.740] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
No further questions. Redirect? No redirect, Your Honor.

**[02:57:28.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any Senator Judge who wish to intervene or make interjections?

**[02:57:35.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Kiko Pangilinan. Thereafter, Senator Judge Risa Ontiveros. Thereafter, Senator Judge Aimee Marcos. Thereafter, Senator Judge Joel Villanueva. You may proceed, Senator Judge Pangilinan. You have two minutes. Thank you, Ms.

**[02:57:51.300] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Witness. Sa usap sa iyong naging karanasan bilang bank manager

**[02:57:56.680] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
at

**[02:57:57.900] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
government agencies ang tinatransact. Gaya ng natanong namin kanina ng ilang mga senador.

**[02:58:16.270] Nenita Camposano**  
With Land Bank DepEd po, for government agencies, ano siya? Unusual po ang amount ng pag-withdraw.

**[02:58:30.090] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So unusual. Yes, sir. At unusual dahil ano ang usual na masasabing transaksyon for government agencies?

**[02:58:41.840] Nenita Camposano**  
For DepEd, sir?

**[02:58:43.040] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Yes. For

**[02:58:43.820] Nenita Camposano**  
DepEd, parang nag-re-range lang ng mga nasa, I'm not sure masyado, sir, pero parang mga 10, mga nasa ganoon lamang.

**[02:58:55.620] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
10 million cash?

**[02:58:56.940] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:58:57.820] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay, so yung 37 is almost 4 times more than the usual?

**[02:59:01.520] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. And

**[02:59:02.660] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
other government agencies, ganoon din ba? 10 million o mas mababa?

**[02:59:07.890] Nenita Camposano**  
With Land Bank DepEd po. No, no, other

**[02:59:10.670] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
government agencies. Yes, in Land Bank DepEd branch. With

**[02:59:15.050] Nenita Camposano**  
Land Bank DepEd, si DepEd lang naman po kasi ang aming government agency nga hawak.

**[02:59:20.010] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay. Yung 37 million, ilang years ka na sa?

**[02:59:25.470] Nenita Camposano**  
34 years.

**[02:59:26.690] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So in your 34 years, was this the first time you had to deal with 37 million cash three times in a period of three quarters?

**[02:59:41.290] Nenita Camposano**  
With other government agencies? With

**[02:59:43.470] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
the DepEd.

**[02:59:44.050] Nenita Camposano**  
With the DepEd. No, sir. Para ngayon lang po yung time na may encashment na ganun kalaki.

**[02:59:51.690] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
So this is the first time for you to experience that kind of cash

**[02:59:55.350] Nenita Camposano**  
transaction? Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:59:57.490] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Okay.

**[03:00:17.200] Nenita Camposano**  
Meron naman po.

**[03:00:25.310] Nenita Camposano**  
Your Honor, baka may violation ako ng bank secrecy lang if I mention. Well,

**[03:00:30.950] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
hindi siguro pero hindi mo naman babanggitin yung amounts at yung bank account number, just the agency. And I'm not asking for a specific amount, just which agencies may have transacted in huge amounts.

**[03:00:57.160] Nenita Camposano**  
Well,

**[03:00:57.560] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
suffice it to say that what you're saying is in your previous experience, it has happened. Pero dito sa DepEd, it has never happened. In DepEd, a land bag. Okay. Wala na po akong ibang tanong. Maraming salamat. Thank

**[03:01:11.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you, Senator Judge Kiko. Senator Judge Risa Ontiveros is recognized for her interjections. You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. You have two minutes.

**[03:01:25.400] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[03:01:29.830] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Madam Witness, sabi niyo nga unusual na makapag-withdraw ng 37.5 million pesos in cash sa isang araw at karaniwan ay 10 million pesos. So halos isang kaapat lang nung halagang yun. Ano po yung naisip ninyo nung winidraw nila yung ganyang kalaking halaga?

**[03:01:50.900] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala naman po. Wala naman.

**[03:01:53.840] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
At sinabi po ba nila sa inyo kung para saan yung 37.5 million pesos in cash na iyon?

**[03:01:59.800] Nenita Camposano**  
I know

**[03:01:59.820] Nenita Camposano**  
your honor. Hindi rin.

**[03:02:01.500] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay.

**[03:02:04.680] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
So noong 2023, 112.5 million pesos po ang nirelease ng inyong branch sa Department of Education na pinamunuan noon ni Vice Presidente. At binanggit nyo po kanina, Dalawang bag each time, each of those three times ang ginamit. Naaalala niyo po ba kung ganong kalaki yung mga bag na yun?

**[03:02:30.220] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi po. Parang dalawang bags pero I'm not sure.

**[03:02:35.500] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
At

**[03:02:38.450] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
bilang branch manager po, paano niyo signigurado na aprobado? ni Vice President Sara na sekretary noon, paano nyo siniguradong aprobado niya yung mga transaksyong iyon na ganung halaga at in cash sa bawat araw, tatlong beses?

**[03:02:55.740] Nenita Camposano**  
As approved ni BP Sara po ang transaksyong? Yes, paano nyo sinigurado iyon?

**[03:03:02.240] Nenita Camposano**  
Dumaan po kasi yan sa DBM. DBM, upload ng DBM po yan. Na-release po ang pondo ni BTR. Mayroon po yung advice and firmado po ng mga authorized signatories ng DepEd.

**[03:03:21.710] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay.

**[03:03:24.450] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
So dumaan sa DBM hanggang makarating po sa inyo yung mga cheque. Ganong halaga, in cash, ini-encash nga po, and then inilalabas sa branch nyo. Tigalawang bag. Pero nananatili yung impression nyo na unusual yung ganyang kalaking halaga na 37.5 million pesos at in cash, hindi po in checks.

**[03:03:49.310] Nenita Camposano**  
Unusual yung 37.5 po. So

**[03:03:54.210] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
nananatili para sa inyo unusual yung halagang 37.5 million pesos dahil halos times four nung usual na sinabi nyong 10 million pesos at most. Yes ma. Alright. Salamat po Madam Witness. Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[03:04:09.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Marcos is recognized for interjection. Thereafter, Senator Judge Villanueva. Thereafter, the Senate President. And thereafter, Senator Judge Rafi Tulfo. You may proceed when you're ready ma'am. You have two minutes.

**[03:04:24.690] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yes, just clarifying po, Ms. Camposano. You mentioned doon sa House Blue Ribbon. Tinitignan ko nga yung transcript. At kanina, nabanggit ninyo na unusual for government agencies including yung DepEd na mag-withdraw ng malalaking halagang katulad nito. Pero doon sa Blue Ribbon, sinabi po ninyo na not only private clients but government clients go to your branch. So, pinaliwanag po ninyo. Tama po? Tapos, nag-testify rin kayo nung tinanong kayo ni Congresswoman Garin, is this a regular occurrence? Ang sabi po ninyo, yes ma'am. So, ibig sabihin, hindi siya unusual regular occurrence. Alin po ba? Kasi later on, sinabi din ninyo na basa ko lang sa transcript, not DepEd only, but with all of our clients. Anong tinutukoy po ninyo doon? Kasi nakakalito kung unusual ba ito o regular, katulad na nabangit ninyo sa house.

**[03:05:27.220] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Without your respect, Your Honor. Your Honor, may I be recognized?

**[03:05:31.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the pleasure of the Honorable Sir?

**[03:05:33.840] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, we would just like to request for the TSN so that our witness will be confronted. With the TSN that is being mentioned by the Honorable Amy Marcos.

**[03:05:46.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If she

**[03:05:46.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
remembers, by the way, Senator Judge Marcos, it's the House Good Government Committee. Yes, this is

**[03:05:54.350] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
the Good Government Committee of the House. I believe it was in November of 2024. Similar to what was mentioned earlier with Ms. Constantino. In her case, I have the hard copy, page 122. On November 26 of 2024, I only have the soft copy of this one. I'm happy to show it. But yun nga, palagay ko November din to eh. Magkakasabay yung landmark nun eh. If the witness knows and recalls, she may answer. Naalala po ba ninyo yung pagtanong ni Congresswoman Garin tungkol dito na is this a regular occurrence? At yung biglaan ninyong sagot, eh yes ma'am.

**[03:06:38.880] Nenita Camposano**  
Kung yan po yung sinasabing... Normal. The usual lamang po ang pag-withdraw ng malalaking amount sa branch.

**[03:06:48.840] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yes. Ang verbatim po, and is this a regular occurrence, ma'am? Ito ba ay pangkaraniwan na pangyayari itong 37.5 o iyong malalaking amount na ine-encash? Ang sagot ni Ms. Camposano sa House, Good Government, yes, ma'am.

**[03:07:09.450] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
So ang sabi ni Representative Garin, so pangkaraniwan pala ito.

**[03:07:15.150] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Ayun.

**[03:07:16.070] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor. Nais ninyong

**[03:07:17.910] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
paliwanag po? Kasi iba ito kesa sa sinabi ninyo kanina.

**[03:07:21.650] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang sinasabi ko po nung sa house ay ang malalaking withdrawal po ay usual lang. Hindi siya unusual sa branch. May both private and government.

**[03:07:37.320] Nenita Camposano**  
Nag-withdraw po siya. May mga malaki pong withdrawals. So

**[03:07:41.520] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
may malalaki talagang withdrawal na nagiging regular occurrence at paminsan-minsan, whether private or public, yan ang ginagawa sa branch po ninyo. Kaya nga lang, kisingi kayo ng cash allotment kasi hindi naman kayo nagtatago ng gano'ng kadaan sa branch. Tama po. So regular po, not unusual. Tama po ba?

**[03:08:02.980] Nenita Camposano**  
Not na... Not usual, unusual siya sa Department of Education dahil during my time, yun lang po yung malaking withdrawal ni Department of Education.

**[03:08:16.560] Sen. Imee Marcos**  
Yes, okay. Pero nangyayari po. Maraming salamat, yun lang po.

**[03:08:20.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Marcos. Senator Judge Villanueva is recognized. You may proceed, sir. When you're ready, you have two minutes.

**[03:08:26.640] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank you, Mr. President. Madam Witness, how long have you been the Land Bank DepEd Branch Manager?

**[03:08:36.110] Nenita Camposano**  
Land Bank DepEd Manager, sir.

**[03:08:39.710] Nenita Camposano**  
Nandun po ako ng May 2022 and hanggang September 2024. So mga two years, more or less.

**[03:08:52.850] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Pinanong ko po yun dahil ang kaibahan nyo po doon sa isang bank manager. Kayo, yung Land Bank po ng DepEd ay nandun po mismo sa compound ng DepEd. Is that correct?

**[03:09:05.710] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:09:08.780] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Kanina po, binanggit yung unusual at ano yung usual. Ang sinasabi niyo po bang unusual lamang ay yung DepEd ang nag-withdraw ng cash na ganitong kalaki. Ngunit sa ibang departamento, nakakapag-withdraw sila ng malalaking salapi, kagaya po nung binanggit niyo kanina.

**[03:09:27.240] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:09:28.620] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Ito po kaya ay dahil ang DepEd nitong mga taon na binanggit, ay nagkaroon ng confidential funds. Is that a correct statement?

**[03:09:39.680] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko po alam. Hindi

**[03:09:41.400] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
nyo po alam. Tama po, dahil hindi nyo naman inaalam kung saan po ito. Ang trabaho nyo lang po ay, nabanggit nyo nga po kanina, ang DBM ang nagpo-provide ng funding at ang ahensya naman ang nag-authorize ng disbursement. Ang trabaho nyo lang po talaga ay to verify and pay the corresponding instrument.

**[03:10:00.040] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:10:00.900] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
At yun po yung inyong ginawa? Opo. At tingin nyo po walang pagkakamali kayong ginawa. Lahat po ay legitimate. Lahat po ay proper. Yes, sir.

**[03:10:17.390] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Comparing po doon sa previous administration, bago po nagkaroon ng confidential funds, wala pong ganitong kalaki na wini-withdraw ang Department of Education. Is that correct?

**[03:10:29.050] Nenita Camposano**  
During my time, wala po. Kaya

**[03:10:31.270] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
po nabanggit nyo na unusual.

**[03:10:33.230] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:10:35.150] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Dito po sa... Payee naman, individual officer as payee. Masasabi niyo po ba na usual practice for checks of this nature to be made payable to a designated special disbursing officer who would personally receive the cash? Nagbabago lamang po yung designated officer while the process remains generally the same?

**[03:11:05.740] Nenita Camposano**  
Binabayaran po namin kung sino yung pay po ng cheque.

**[03:11:09.900] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Which is a usual matter? Na nagpapalit?

**[03:11:16.030] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko po ano kung nagpapalit-palit sila. Basta ang ano po namin is kung sino yung pay ng cheque, yun po ang babayaran namin.

**[03:11:25.330] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Kaya nga po, at kung magpalit man ng pangalan, kung sino yung nakasulat. Last question, when there is a change in the Department of Education Administration, or in its authorized officers, yung land bank po ba require updated authorization, specimen signatures, designated contacts, and other verification bago niyo po i-process yung transaction?

**[03:11:52.420] Nenita Camposano**  
Pagka po nagpalit ang mga authorized signatories po ng isang department, na isang agency, humihingi po kami ng mga specimen signatures and

**[03:12:03.660] Nenita Camposano**  
letter na sila po ang mga authorized nating signatories.

**[03:12:07.040] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
At itong requirements nito na comply bago nyo po ni-release yung... Yes. Maraming salamat, Madam Buites.

**[03:12:13.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Villanueva. Our distinguished Senate President, Senator Gachalian. You may proceed, sir. When you're ready, you have two

**[03:12:19.040] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
minutes. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Ms. Camposano. Just some follow-up questions lang.

**[03:12:28.970] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ano po yung mga transactions, typical transactions ng DepEd sa inyong branch?

**[03:12:38.830] Nenita Camposano**  
Mga encashments po. Anong klaseng mga

**[03:12:42.050] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
encashments?

**[03:12:43.010] Nenita Camposano**  
Mga encashments po ng usually mga overtimes or whatever po ng mga tao. So

**[03:12:52.580] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
mga payroll related?

**[03:12:54.440] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:12:55.540] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In payroll related ba, cash ang ini-encash nila?

**[03:12:59.040] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:13:00.700] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Gaano kalaki yun typically?

**[03:13:04.560] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang DepEd po kasi ay may payroll na arrangement sa amin. So kinikredit, nagpapadala lang po siyang advice para maikredit po yung payroll ng mga tao.

**[03:13:16.240] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero hindi siya cash na wini-withdraw?

**[03:13:18.500] Nenita Camposano**  
No sir.

**[03:13:19.140] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Other than payroll, may iba pang mga, ano pa yung mga ibang transactions ng DepEd sa inyong branch?

**[03:13:27.300] Nenita Camposano**  
Usually kasi sir, yung mga ini-encash nila is yung mga overtime pay, yung mga COS, mga contractuals.

**[03:13:36.280] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Cash yun, ini-encash nila. So ang binibigay nyo sa kanila cash?

**[03:13:39.660] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes sir.

**[03:13:40.380] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Typically magkano yun? In a month, on the average. So ito for overtime ng mga empleyado, tapos pinapa-encash na inyo yung check, tama?

**[03:13:53.010] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor. Typically

**[03:13:54.610] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
magkano yun in a month?

**[03:13:56.850] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko na siya ma-recall pero way below.

**[03:14:01.450] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
More or less 10 million, 20 million,

**[03:14:03.730] Nenita Camposano**  
5

**[03:14:04.910] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
million, more or less.

**[03:14:08.590] Nenita Camposano**  
Yung total for the month? For the month lang. Mga hundreds lang siguro yun. 100

**[03:14:13.150] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
million?

**[03:14:14.210] Nenita Camposano**  
No, 100,000.

**[03:14:16.030] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So 100,000 is typical. encashment for payroll.

**[03:14:20.130] Nenita Camposano**  
100,000 to 100,000. Mga ganoon lamang. 100

**[03:14:22.550] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
,000. And then, rinig ko kanina na galing kayo sa ibang branch.

**[03:14:26.690] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:14:27.870] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
May experience rin kayo sa ibang government agencies?

**[03:14:31.470] Nenita Camposano**  
Meron po.

**[03:14:32.290] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Meron din ba kayong mga experience na ganito kalaking amount ang ini-encash ng isang government agency?

**[03:14:41.710] Nenita Camposano**  
As to amount, hindi ko na rin po siya matanda. Pero ang alam ko po, malaki rin po yung i-encash ng ibang government agents.

**[03:14:49.390] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ganito to a tune of 37.5 million. Around that vicinity?

**[03:14:56.150] Nenita Camposano**  
More or less siguro. More

**[03:14:57.630] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
or less. So meron ganyan kayong na-experience pag i-encash sa ibang branch?

**[03:15:04.730] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:15:05.390] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tama po ba? And then, balik tayo dito sa DepEd. Doon sa pag-a-advise sa inyo tuwing mag-e-encash, gaano kaaga dapat mag-advise sa inyo bago mag-encash?

**[03:15:21.870] Nenita Camposano**  
Kung

**[03:15:22.390] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
kailangan ng cash.

**[03:15:23.750] Nenita Camposano**  
Usually dapat morning masabihan na po kami. Kasi siguro mga 12 o'clock magka-cut off na rin po yung cash center namin para i-request din po yun. So within

**[03:15:35.230] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
24 hours dapat ma-advise na kayo?

**[03:15:41.010] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi naman siya 24 hours, sir. Less

**[03:15:44.090] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
than 24 hours? Pag

**[03:15:45.450] Nenita Camposano**  
nasabihan

**[03:15:45.910] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
kayo, mapapadala nyo ka agad doon yung

**[03:15:48.170] Nenita Camposano**  
cash na ganun

**[03:15:48.870] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
kalaki?

**[03:15:49.410] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes. May katao po kasi ang cash center namin, siguro ma around 12 o'clock. So pagka mas later lang 12 o'clock, hindi pa rin namin masagot na ma-deliver sa amin yung the following day.

**[03:16:00.770] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Itong branch ninyo, particularly para sa DepEd, tama po ba?

**[03:16:04.750] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. Sa

**[03:16:05.670] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
inyong pagkaalam sa mga past mga DepEd officials, past secretaries, Meron na bang na-encash na ganito hukalaki? Sa inyong pagkaalam, kasi alam ko two years pa lang kayo doon, pero sa inyong mga pag-uusap sa inyong staff?

**[03:16:21.050] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi namin na pag-uusapan, sir.

**[03:16:23.230] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ang

**[03:16:23.710] Nenita Camposano**  
alam ko lang po is yung stint ko sa DepEd. Hindi

**[03:16:28.190] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
nyo na pag-uusapan sa mga subordinates nyo kung may mga ganitong encashment na malalaki? May mga ganun bang pag-uusap kayo?

**[03:16:36.930] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala po. Thank

**[03:16:38.250] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
you, Mr. President.

**[03:16:39.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senate President Gachalian. Next to make his interjections would be Senator Rafi Tulfo. You're recognized, sir. You may proceed when you're ready. You have two minutes, sir.

**[03:17:00.340] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Madam Witness, ayon sa COA Circular 2015-01, pagdating sa disbursement ng confidential file, ang authorized lang dapat talaga yung head ng agency or yung designated person.

**[03:17:17.320] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
ng

**[03:17:17.840] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
agency na yon. You agree? And in this case, ang SDO is Edward Fajarda. Alam na natin, kanina pa natin pag-usapan. Correct?

**[03:17:26.370] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:17:27.230] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Now, anong mga dokumentong sinamiti sa land bank, the land bank, para magpapatunay na in fact talagang si Edward Fajarda ang designated SDO?

**[03:17:38.930] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala po. Wala? Wala po.

**[03:17:41.610] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Anong sinabing wala? So, Walang dokumentong isinumite na dinedesignate si Fajarda ng head ng agency na yan para sabihin ito ang SDO. Ito yung maging katransaksyon nyo? Wala? Wala. Laway lang?

**[03:17:58.670] Nenita Camposano**  
Nagpunta po doon si Mr. Fajarda na siya yung payee at nagpresent po siya ng identification. Of

**[03:18:05.250] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
course, pero dapat meron siyang dokumentong pinipresent na siya ang dinedesignate ng head ng agency na yun bilang SDO. Right?

**[03:18:13.090] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala po silang naipresent

**[03:18:14.510] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
sa amin. And then you honor it? Face value? Nagpakita lang siya ng dokumento? Ako si Fajarda at ako yung designated SDO? Just like that? And you said okay?

**[03:18:24.460] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:18:25.360] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wow. No.

**[03:18:28.750] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Under the COA circular, it should only be the head of that agency who happens to be the VP. Or kung ayaw ni VP, mag-designate siya ng

**[03:18:37.510] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
tao na maging SDO niya at meron siyang dokumento pipirman para ini-endorse niya ang SDO na iyon.

**[03:18:44.680] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Who happens to be Paharda? And you said, wala. So sinabi ni Paharda, hello, ako si Paharda, akong designated na SDO ng DepEd. And agad-agad, pininiwalaan niyo.

**[03:18:55.520] Nenita Camposano**  
During the first encashment, na-mention po ni Ma'am Sonia na mag-e-encash si Mr. Paharda. Pero parang hindi naman yan na-mention na SDO.

**[03:19:05.100] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
No, Ma'am. Ang ibig sabihin dapat, someone should have endorsed Paharda as the SDO for the DepEd.

**[03:19:12.690] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Sabi mo wala. So pumunta lang si Paharda doon, nag-present. Presenta yung sarili niya. Sinabi niya, akong SDO ng Deped. And then sabi niya, okay, sige.

**[03:19:21.470] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
So

**[03:19:21.910] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
hindi kayo sumunod doon sa pata kanan ng Kuwa Circular?

**[03:19:25.820] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala pong nag-present sa amin, sir.

**[03:19:27.940] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wala. Okay. So paano naman kung si Paharda talagang authorized na mag-withdraw o magkipag-transact ng limpak-limpak na salapi?

**[03:19:40.180] Nenita Camposano**  
As pay of the cheque, in honor na po namin yun.

**[03:19:44.500] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
As pay of the cheque. So, sino ang tumatawag sa inyo para sabihin na si Fahada pupunta dyan at mag-withdraw ng such and such amount of money two days before?

**[03:19:53.660] Nenita Camposano**  
Si Miss Sonia De Leon po.

**[03:19:55.760] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Sino po si Sonia De Leon?

**[03:19:57.000] Nenita Camposano**  
Siya po

**[03:19:57.200] Nenita Camposano**  
ang head ng cash division ng DepEd.

**[03:20:01.260] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay, siya yung kilala niyong head cash division ng DepEd. Pero, you know what?

**[03:20:06.180] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Nagtataka pa rin ako na...

**[03:20:08.660] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wala kayong hawak na dokumento na nagsasabing si Fajarda ang designated SDO coming from the head of that agency na

**[03:20:20.090] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
pirmado.

**[03:20:21.190] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala.

**[03:20:22.050] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Wala, sir. Thank

**[03:20:24.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you,

**[03:20:25.220] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Madam.

**[03:20:26.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank

**[03:20:27.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you, Senator Judge Raffi. Actually, the Chair would like to make a brief interjection. The payee of the check is Fajarda. Correct, ma'am?

**[03:20:40.910] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:20:41.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So kung sino, kung kanino nakapangalan yung cheque, doon yung ibibigay.

**[03:20:46.070] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:20:46.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung cash o kapalit yung cheque.

**[03:20:48.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kung

**[03:20:49.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
SDO man siya o hindi. Pero sa ayon sa COA Circular, SDO lamang ang pwedeng pangalanan ng mga ganyan cheque. Hindi nyo na

**[03:20:57.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
po alam yung bagay na yun.

**[03:20:58.800] Nenita Camposano**  
Nag-ano lang po kami sa pay-in ng cheque, sir.

**[03:21:01.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kung kaninong pangalan yung nakalagay doon, yun po ang sinusunod lang niya. Yes, Representative Chua.

**[03:21:06.170] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the witness has no knowledge as to the designation of Mr. Pajarda and as to the purpose of the fund, Your Honor.

**[03:21:20.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As to being SDO, yes. I believe

**[03:21:22.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you will be presenting another

**[03:21:23.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness for that.

**[03:21:24.750] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, we are going to present another witness for that, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:21:28.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Jury noted. Senator Judge Aquino is recognized. You may proceed, sir. When you're ready, you have two minutes. Yes, before my line

**[03:21:34.030] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
of questioning. Gusto ko lang pong klaruhin rin po ma'am, alam niyo po ba na para sa confidential funds yung pondong yan?

**[03:21:41.440] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi rin po diba?

**[03:21:42.720] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
And you're not required to ask?

**[03:21:44.620] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes. Hindi

**[03:21:45.640] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
rin kayo kayo nagtatanong talaga?

**[03:21:47.160] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:21:49.280] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Pinag-uusapan ko kasi yung covered, suspicious, pati yung salitang unusual. Sa inyo pong pagkakaalam bilang isang bank manager, ano po bang pinagkaya ba ng covered transaction, suspicious transaction?

**[03:22:05.610] Nenita Camposano**  
Ang covered transaction po is automatic po yung inire-report sa AMLC. May system po ang land bank na ang mga transactions ng banko na in excess of 500,000 ay automatic na naka-report. Ang suspicious transaction naman po ay pagka mayroong kaming nakita kay malaking amount, kay maliit, basta't. Parang doubtful yung transactions. Kailangan po namin i-reporta sa STR.

**[03:22:39.930] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Suspicious

**[03:22:40.450] Nenita Camposano**  
transaction.

**[03:22:41.390] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung covered transaction po, tama po ba na walang human intervention ito? Sa sistema lang po ito?

**[03:22:46.740] Nenita Camposano**  
The STR?

**[03:22:48.280] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Sa covered transactions.

**[03:22:49.580] Nenita Camposano**  
May human intervention

**[03:22:50.920] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
po ba ito?

**[03:22:51.500] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala pong human intervention. System po yan.

**[03:22:54.240] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Ano po ito? Papasok? O palabas? O encashment? O basta kahit anong above 500,000?

**[03:22:59.680] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. Kahit na ano po above, in excess of 500, nakareport po siya.

**[03:23:04.320] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay, so we can safely assume that this transaction was covered.

**[03:23:09.860] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Well, you don't want to deduce that, no? Ayon niyo pong sabihin. Yes. Yung suspicious, sino po nagdedetermine na suspicious ang isang transaction? Who determines that?

**[03:23:22.710] Nenita Camposano**  
Sa amin po, sa branch, pagka po may napansin kami, ako po ang nagre-report niya.

**[03:23:31.590] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Kayo po, wala hong ibang pwedeng mag-report or ang branch manager lang po yung pwedeng mag-report?

**[03:23:37.720] Nenita Camposano**  
Ako kasi yung bali nagre-report, ako yung nagsasign ng report.

**[03:23:43.760] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So, ito po, tinungko rin po ito kanina dun sa manager ng land bank. Pero nais ko lang po marinig rin po sa inyo.

**[03:23:52.520] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Nagkaroon po ba ng suspicious reporting ng transaction ito sa AMLA?

**[03:24:00.000] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi po kami pwedeng mag-divulge ng any information regarding sa reporting po ng STR, sir. And

**[03:24:05.580] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
nasa batas naman po yan na hindi po kayo pwedeng mag-divulge.

**[03:24:09.680] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes.

**[03:24:10.560] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung sinabi niyo po kanina, unusual, iba po yun sa suspicious?

**[03:24:15.200] Nenita Camposano**  
Iba po.

**[03:24:16.160] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Can you help me understand ano po yung pinagkaiba ng unusual at suspicious sa inyong perspektiba?

**[03:24:24.040] Nenita Camposano**  
Unusual meaning? Kakaiba lang yung transaction, pero not necessarily suspicious.

**[03:24:30.020] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung suspicious po, tama po ba? May exactong definition yan sa mga batas natin? Yung unusual po ay inyo lang pong pakiwari?

**[03:24:39.340] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:24:40.440] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. And kayo po, bilang branch manager, ayaw nyo pong sabihin kung nireport nyo po ito. Pero sa inyo pong karanasan, lahat pong nakikitaan yung hindi pang karaniwan, nireport nyo po ba sa AMLA? Not particularly this case, but in general?

**[03:24:59.700] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi naman po. Hindi lahat ng mga unusual transaction ay nire-report namin as suspicious.

**[03:25:05.520] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
All right.

**[03:25:05.780] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Maraming salamat, Mr. Chairman.

**[03:25:09.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Ejercito is recognized for his interjection. You may proceed, sir. When you're ready, you have two minutes.

**[03:25:15.190] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
Yes, thank you, Mr. Providing Judge. Just a clarification. Ma'am, kanina po nakikinig po ako, no? Ang nabanggit niyo, sabi niyo nga. Na ilang beses sabi niya unusual po yung 37.5. Madalas, the transaction sa inyo pong branch ay nag-average 10 to 20 million. Tama ho ba? Ang aking magkakarinig.

**[03:25:36.800] Nenita Camposano**  
Opo, mga last 10 million.

**[03:25:38.620] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
So sa isang karaniwang araw, ano po yung sa inyo pong experience, ano daw po yung pinakamalaking halaga ng cash na inyo pong nailabas sa inyong sangay para po sa isang client, in this case ito pong ahensya na ang DepEd po? Ano po yung pinakamalaking amount? Ito na po ba yung pinakamalaki? Dahil sabi nyo kanina, unusual.

**[03:26:01.720] Nenita Camposano**  
Pinakamalaki po ang amount na nailabas nga po ay yung na-encash is yung 37.5.

**[03:26:08.820] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
Ito na po. So ito yung nagsimula, kailan po ito nagsimula yung ganitong withdrawals?

**[03:26:16.470] Nenita Camposano**  
Anong po February, sir?

**[03:26:20.690] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
Ito na po, last question. Mr. Presiding Officer, nangyayari po pa ba itong ganitong kalaking amount, ganito kalaking halaga na withdrawal sa ngayon?

**[03:26:32.320] Nenita Camposano**  
Ay, in my time, wala na po yun. Yun lang po, tatlong yun. Tatlong lang.

**[03:26:38.740] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
Well, hindi na po nasundan.

**[03:26:40.200] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala na po.

**[03:26:41.300] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
That's all.

**[03:26:41.920] Sen. Joseph Victor “JV” Ejercito**  
Thank you.

**[03:26:42.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Jajercito. If there are no other Senator Judges who wish to make interventions, Chair would like to make a few.

**[03:26:50.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ms. Camposano, ma'am? Tama po bang translation ito? Unusual sa Tagalog, kakaiba. Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:27:00.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Suspicious, tama po ba? Kaduda-duda.

**[03:27:02.880] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:27:04.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sangayon sa AMLOC, yung kaduda-duda dapat i-report, pero yung kakaiba, hindi kailangan i-report. Yes, Your Honor. Tama po. Sabi niyo po kasi kanina, yung unusual, hindi kailangan i-report, pero yung suspicious, kailangan i-report. Sangayon sa batas. Hindi ko po sinasabing suspicious ito. Sinasabi ko lang, yun yung sinasabi ng batas.

**[03:27:26.640] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir. Ang suspicious transaction po ay kailangan natin i-report sa STR, sa AMLC. And yung unusual, kung unusual lang naman siya, wala naman pong suspicious doon sa transaction, hindi po siya kailangan i-report.

**[03:27:44.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Isa na lang po katanungan, curious lang po ako. Sabi niyo po, para pangalagaan ang kaligtasan ng inyong empleyado, hindi pwedeng...

**[03:27:53.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ihatid

**[03:27:53.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ng sino mang empleyado ng bangko yung pinagbigyan ng pera, gaano mang kalito, gaano kalaki, dahil kapag kahawak niya na yun, kanya na yun. Tama po ba? Opo. Ibig sabihin po ba nun, pag na-withdraw na yung pera at hawak nun ang depositor yung pera, pag may nang hold up ng bangko, matapos niyang mahawakan yung pera, sa noho yung mawawalan, di na kayo. Ganun po ba yan? Hindi. Sa praktika lang usapan. Gayun din, paglabas niya ng bangko niyo, nahold up siya doon, hawak niya na eh. Wala na kayong pakialam, di ba? Kaya kayo may pulisiyeng gano 'n

**[03:28:30.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
na bawal magatid. Dahil nga, pag hawak na niya, kanya na yun. Opo. Kanya na yun, pananagutan niya na yun, wala na kayong pakialam. Ano man ang mangyari doon?

**[03:28:39.360] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:28:40.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mawala man yun, nakawin man yun, hold upin man yun, labas na kayo doon.

**[03:28:44.220] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:28:45.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That would be all, Ms. Campuzano. Are there any other interjections or interventions by any of the Senator judges?

**[03:28:51.790] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
One quick question. The

**[03:28:53.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senate President is recognized. One quick question, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[03:28:56.910] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ms. Camposano, sabi niyo kanina unusual. Pero may nasabi rin kayo kanina in your past experience na may government organization na naglabas ng pera ganang kalaki rin. Bakit unusual po sa DepEd pero hindi unusual dun sa government organization na yun?

**[03:29:19.210] Nenita Camposano**  
Usually kasi, yung mga ibang agencies po, normal na from naglalabas sila ng ganoon. Ito pong kasing sa DepEd, kaya ko po nasabing unusual is, ito lang pong tatlong to ang nangyari.

**[03:29:39.630] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So in other words, doon sa ibang government agencies, madalas sila ganito kalaking amount ang lumalabas? Regular yun?

**[03:29:45.970] Nenita Camposano**  
Apo.

**[03:29:47.030] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sa DepEd, hindi regular?

**[03:29:49.500] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, Your Honor. Thank

**[03:29:50.420] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
you, Mr. President.

**[03:29:52.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Lacson is recognized for his intervention. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. Thank

**[03:29:57.060] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
you, Mr. President.

**[03:30:00.000] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
lang. Binabasa ko po yung anti-money laundering act. Wala namang po kaduda-duda nun eh. Either covered or suspicious. Pag covered, may threshold. Maski hindi suspicious, kailangan report. Kung above the threshold amount. Which is 500. Wala po sa batas yung kaduda-duda eh. Either it's suspicious or covered. Transaction.

**[03:30:29.230] Nenita Camposano**  
Ano kasi yun sir? Pagka ang covered transaction, automatic pong nakareport siya as covered transaction in excess of 500,000. Sa suspicious transaction po, parang nagkaroon po tayo ng doubt, di ba? Then inimbestigahan po natin at yung pong sa investigation natin ay hindi siya pumasa.

**[03:30:56.670] Nenita Camposano**  
Suspicious pa rin po siya. So that's when kami magre-report a suspicious transaction.

**[03:31:02.250] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Pero there's no such thing in the law na doubtful or kaduda-duda.

**[03:31:08.700] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Unusual. It's just covert or suspicious. So

**[03:31:13.500] Nenita Camposano**  
parang pinag-nagduda ka and in-investigate.

**[03:31:18.220] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Walang middle layer, ibig sabihin.

**[03:31:20.620] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes. Pag

**[03:31:21.780] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
above the threshold, tapos covert institution, like casinos, real estate. automatic i-report yun kasi covered institution. Ngayon, ordinary depositor, pumunta sa banko, nag-deposit o nag-withdraw ng more than 500, that's above the threshold. It becomes a covered transaction.

**[03:31:41.420] Nenita Camposano**  
So

**[03:31:41.800] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
wala akong kaduda-duda.

**[03:31:45.900] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Suspicious. Suspicious lang. Wala yung middle. It's either you categorize it into covered or suspicious. Huwag na ho tayo mag-uusap ng kaduda-duda. Or unusual pala, sorry. Huwag na natin pag-usapan yung unusual.

**[03:32:03.290] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Either kaduda-duda lang or covered. Yes, sir. Thank you.

**[03:32:11.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Villanueva for his second round. No,

**[03:32:16.020] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Mr. President. Just a short interjection. I was looking at the BSP circular. number 1215. And in this circular of the Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas, it says here, a transaction is considered unusual when it shows patterns that are inconsistent with the account owner's usual behavior. It's not commensurate with the known business or financial capacity of the account owner or deviates from the account owner's profile. So, naiintindihan nyo po ito when you say unusual, di ba? pumapasok po dito sa BSP Circular.

**[03:32:56.360] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Again, sir? Whenever you said that this is unusual, pumapasok po o dito sa kategoryang ito pumapasok ng BSP Circular 1215, yung binabanggit po ninyo. Ang transaksyon ay considered unusual kung ito po ay nagpapakita ng patterns that are inconsistent with the account owner's usual behavior.

**[03:33:20.590] Nenita Camposano**  
So kaya po siya unusual, sir? Yun

**[03:33:22.770] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
nga po. Kaya tinatanong ko po kayo, whenever you say this, na it's unusual, dahil pumapasok po siya sa kategoryang ito.

**[03:33:29.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:33:29.770] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Salamat po. Senator

**[03:33:32.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Judge Lacson is recognized.

**[03:33:35.780] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Medyo na-confuse lang ako kanina. I did not mean kaduda-duda, but yung unusual na sinasabi kong wala.

**[03:33:41.540] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Thank

**[03:33:42.540] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
you. Kasi yung kaduda-duda na mistook ko as unusual.

**[03:33:50.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ako na po yung nag-translate nun. Suspicious equals kaduda-duda, unusual kakaiba.

**[03:33:58.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge Lauren Legarde is recognized for her interjection.

**[03:34:03.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You

**[03:34:03.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may proceed, Ma'am Munoz. You have two minutes.

**[03:34:07.450] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Just very briefly, thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[03:34:12.140] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
After hearing all the words, unusual, suspicious, illegal, but I just wanted to understand. Ma'am Camposano, matapos po maging subject ng congressional inquiry ang mga transaction na ito, nagsagawa ba ho ang land bank ng anumang internal review kung paano hinanda, na-authorize, or na-release ang cash?

**[03:34:41.430] Nenita Camposano**  
Internal review po

**[03:34:43.010] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
ng land bank? Yes. Because you used words unusual, suspicious, all of that. I just wanted to know. Pagkatapos po nangyari yun, was there any internal review? I just wanted to understand that.

**[03:34:59.670] Nenita Camposano**  
After ng Congress hearing, Your Honor?

**[03:35:02.270] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Yes, because doon po namin unang nabatid yung inyong mga statements.

**[03:35:08.670] Nenita Camposano**  
Hindi ko na po masagot yan, Your Honor, because I was with Land Bank DOTR na po noong time na yun. So kung ano man po yung nangyari with DepEd branch at the time after the Congressional hearing, Hindi ko po alam na.

**[03:35:23.050] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
So after the hearings, when you made these manifestations, hindi po kayo pamilyar kung nagkaroon po ng pagbabago, ng review, i-assess yung proseso dahil po sa inyong mga kaalaman? Linipat na

**[03:35:44.690] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
po kayo?

**[03:35:45.770] Nenita Camposano**  
No. I was with Land Bank, the OTR na, during the congressional hearing.

**[03:35:51.900] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Yes. And so, you were not called for any review based on your revelations? Wala

**[03:35:58.980] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
pa.

**[03:36:00.260] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Okay. So, I had many questions. I was supposed to ask you, anong saklaw ng review, ano ang security arrangements, documentation, reporting requirements, but if you're not familiar with the review, so you will not be able to answer. So, do we assume then that the process is still the same? Kung walang binago po, ibig po bang sabihin na land bank considered the existing process sufficient and that the same transaction could still be handled in substantially the same manner today? Gusto ko po lang maintindihan kung unusual, usually... kakausapin dapat yan o a-assess ang proseso. But if it was not, how is the process today? Paano po nagbago kung meron man?

**[03:36:55.720] Nenita Camposano**  
Kung sa ngayon po, nagbago po ang proseso niyan dahil meron na po tayong BSP guidelines na ang amount lang po ng cash na mailalabas is up to 1 million. Then pagka more than 1 million ay kailangan na po ng necessary approvals.

**[03:37:13.980] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Yes, I'm talking about the changes, evaluation, assessment after the congressional inquiry. Are you referring to a BSP guideline that was given after the congressional inquiry?

**[03:37:31.730] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes,

**[03:37:32.710] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
that's what I'm referring to. From the time, ma'am, that you gave those statements and if you... found it unusual, and up to now, I wanted to know whether there was any internal, yes, I take note of that, internal assessments to review so that there could be changes for security arrangements. If none, and if not familiar with you, I leave it at that. Except that normally in life, when something is unusual,

**[03:38:08.780] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
which is not necessarily suspicious, which is not necessarily illegal, but you assess and you make changes to improve the process. But you're saying you are not familiar with any such investigations or assessment or review.

**[03:38:28.080] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, ma'am. Okay.

**[03:38:29.600] Sen. Loren Legarda**  
Thank

**[03:38:30.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you. Thank you, ma'am. Senator Judge Padilla first. Apologies, Senator Allen. Senator Judge Padilla, for his interjections thereafter, Senator Judge Alan Cayetano. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed with your ready. Maraming salamat po. Isang mabilis lang

**[03:38:44.900] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
po ito. Pagka sinabi pong unusual, hindi pangkaraniwan. Hindi po ba?

**[03:38:50.820] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:38:51.460] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Kapag sinabing suspicious, ibig sabihin kahinahinala.

**[03:38:55.280] Nenita Camposano**  
Apo, sir.

**[03:38:56.100] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Wala po kayong nakitang kahinahinala, hindi po ba?

**[03:38:59.440] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala naman po.

**[03:39:00.460] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ibig sabihin hindi po illegal.

**[03:39:04.220] Nenita Camposano**  
Wala naman. Ang ano lang po kasi namin is yun sa... Check and cash.

**[03:39:08.230] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ibig sabihin wala pong illegal. Maraming salamat po sa prosecution naman po ako.

**[03:39:14.810] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
Ginong prosecutor, pangkaraniwan po ba ang confidential fund?

**[03:39:22.380] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, yung confidential fund po, sa aking pagkakaalam, ito po'y binibigay. Pangkaraniwan po ba siya na

**[03:39:30.200] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
ibinibigay?

**[03:39:30.860] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Depende po. Depende po sa mga government agency at saka

**[03:39:34.540] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
head ng agency.

**[03:39:34.760] Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla**  
So hindi po siya pangkaraniwan kasi depende? Tama po. Salamat po.

**[03:39:39.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Padilla. Senator Judge Alan Cayetano is recognized for his interjections. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[03:39:47.520] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
I

**[03:39:48.060] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
think most senators already clarified, but just a little bit more. Magandang hapon, Madam Witness.

**[03:39:54.760] Nenita Camposano**  
So,

**[03:39:55.700] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
are you familiar with confidential or intelligence or discretionary funds?

**[03:40:00.760] Nenita Camposano**  
No, sir.

**[03:40:01.480] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
So, yung usual or unusual? Depende kung saan ka naka-assign. Kasi for example, kung sa Malacanang ka naka-assign, and parating may intelligence funds ang Malacanang, and whether, I don't know how much they usually withdraw, whether it's 25, 50, 100. So if they always do it, then it's usual, right?

**[03:40:22.350] Nenita Camposano**  
Yes. If

**[03:40:23.250] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
it's just a one time that year, or unusual, bakit suddenly, right? So whether it's you or the previous witness, ang tinatanong lang namin kung usual sa branch niya.

**[03:40:36.810] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
In your case kasi you've been assigned to different branches handling different agencies but not all agencies have confidential funds. So yung pag tinanong sa'yo usual, you're just being honest kung again, if it's usual or not usual or unusual, right?

**[03:40:57.870] Nenita Camposano**  
Put it

**[03:40:58.650] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
another way, diba? If you're a kind of person that you love everyone,

**[03:41:04.450] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
and then first time ko pumunta sa branch mo, I love Alan, then it's usual. Sabi nga ni Tom Jones, it's not unusual to be loved by you. Kung yun yung usual. If you're the type of person naman that you don't like anyone, then suddenly I go to your branch, sasabihin naman ng mga tao doon, Ma'am, medyo unusual. Ba't mo nagustuhan siya? So I think yun din yung isang thing na-clarify ni Sen. Tulfo, ni Sen. Lakson, etc. na iba yung suspicious and covert kasi may legal implications yun. Yung useful, unusual. We're just trying to get to the truth of what's happening here. So the other point what I want to make is that siguro sa prosecution ko na ito itanong dahil we're all legislators here, Honorable Chua. Is it useful for DepEd to have confidential funds?

**[03:41:57.690] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, I believe that this is the first time that DepEd received confidential money.

**[03:42:02.850] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Yes, in

**[03:42:03.130] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
fact, here in the Senate, in COCUS, ako lang halos ang nag-object. I think dalawa lang kami o tatlo. Ang sinabi ko nun sa chairman namin ng Committee on Finance, if the Vice President needs that amount, let's put it all in OVP. Same amount na nire-request niya kasi at least dun usually naman talaga meron kasi nga or pwede. Kasi vice president siya. And then kung siya ay nasa security council or kung siya ay nasa any law enforcement. Ang argument ko nun, if you put it in DepEd, paano pag napalitan yung sekretary, will we continue it, etc. So anyway, I just agree with the other senators here that as we go along, let's help the public understand the difference between covered, suspicious, and... usual, unusual. Para lang walang conclusions that are made that are prejudicial to either the prosecution or the defense. Thank you. Thank you, Senator

**[03:43:05.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Judge Cayetano.

**[03:43:08.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There being no other senator judges who wish to make interjections, Ms. Camposano, you are excused, ma'am. Thank you very much for your time and your cooperation. Salamat po sa inyong pagkikilahok. sa pagdinig na ito ng impeachment court. Your excuse, ma'am.

**[03:43:29.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
On the part of the prosecution, may I know who are your witnesses for next week's trial?

**[03:43:37.550] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
The lead

**[03:43:38.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
prosecutor is recognized.

**[03:43:40.250] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, and in response to your question, we are requesting for the issuance of Sabina Ducez-Tecum and Sabina A. Testificant for the following witnesses. One, Roderick C. Wamil. Former State Auditor of COA ICFAO. Address is Commission and Audit, Central Office Compound, Commonwealth Avenue, Quezon City. 2. Ms. Sylene May L. Del Campo. Present State Auditor of COA ICFAO with same address. 3. Ms. Marivic Pareja. Director of House of Representative, Legislative Information, Resources Management Department, Batasan Pambansa Complex, Batasan Hills, Quezon City. Your Honor, these three witnesses are intended to be presented on August 3, August 4, and August 5, trial schedules.

**[03:44:43.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In that order,

**[03:44:44.590] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Honorable

**[03:44:46.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Bistro. So first, Roderick, next, Cylene, and third would be Maravick.

**[03:44:51.260] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
That's correct, Your Honor.

**[03:44:52.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court is directed to issue the corresponding subpoena at testificandum, subpoena dosis tecum to the aforementioned witnesses at the aforestated addresses of the witnesses mentioned by the lead prosecutor. So, ordered.

**[03:45:08.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Chair would like to dispose of one other administrative matter.

**[03:45:13.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Last July 15, the Honorable Aquino asked a question before this Court regarding the procedure. If after each article we will hear both the prosecution and the defense and the presiding officer responded in the negative, citing as basis the precedent in the Corona impeachment trial, the only trial that actually went through the whole course, wherein the prosecution finished presentation of their evidence with respect to all of the articles of impeachment that they did not withdraw. Thereafter, the defense presented their evidence with respect to the articles of impeachment that were not withdrawn by the prosecution. Sometime last week, the presiding officer, based on some of the suggestions by some of the senator judges, called for a sidebar with the lead prosecutor and the lead counsel for respondent to throw a question at them if they're open to changing the procedure. to the one suggested in open court by Senator Bam Aquino. However, subject to one condition, that both parties should be agreeable, that both parties should agree. We are in receipt of a manifestation. Actually, just a reminder to the Council, to the panel of prosecutors, you filed a manifestation, not a manifestation.

**[03:46:35.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The manifestation dated 7-27, and the response of the respondents dated 7-28. wherein it is clear based on your written manifestations that there is no agreement between the two parties. Therefore, we shall proceed as originally ruled by the Chair from the inquiry of Senator Bam Aquino. We shall finish with the presentation of the evidence in chief of the prosecutors for all the articles of impeachment that they will not withdraw. I'm saying that only because of the corona impeachment experience we had wherein some articles were withdrawn by the prosecution. Thereafter, we will hear the evidence in chief of the respondent for all the articles that remain or all the articles that evidence will be presented by the prosecution. So ordered. If there are no other matters, Senator Judge Zubiri is recognized.

**[03:47:34.430] Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri**  
Mr. President, Mr. Presiding Officer. There is just a request from most of our colleagues here that if we can adjust our schedule in the mornings to 10.30 in the morning till 3.30 in the afternoon. Because like the minority leader who comes from Bicutan, inaabutan po siya ng traffic pag maaga. Ganun din ang haba ng biyahe niya. So baka pwede naman ma-adjust natin ng 10.30 ng umaga. At then 3.30 ng hapon tayo matapos. At 4 o'clock tayo mag-session. Kasi anyway, ililipat lang naman natin yung mga lamesa. Madali naman yan gawin. You don't need one hour to... That is the first question. I have a second question. The second question is, may we start our legislative session today earlier? We will respond to both. Thank you, Mr. President. Senator

**[03:48:26.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lapid would like to amend that a bit. If we can start at 10.30 and end at 2.30 so that we can begin our session regularly at 3.00.

**[03:48:39.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator Judge

**[03:48:41.000] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Mr. Senate President, Mr. Presiding Officer, i-caucus na lang po natin yung first manifestation ni Majority Leader.

**[03:48:47.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So if you will hold the caucus first, we have to adjourn today at a specific time. So will it be 10:00 or 10:30?

**[03:48:54.920] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
I would prefer 10.00 o'clock so 

I would suggest na ikokus natin.

**[03:48:58.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
10.00 for this Monday, August 3. Then we adjust after the caucus.

**[03:49:04.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But for this afternoon, upon the authorization of the Senate President, we shall convene at 3pm, the regular session of the Senate for today.

**[03:49:15.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There being no other matters to be taken up, the trial is adjourned until August 3 at 10am in the morning and session for this afternoon shall be convened. At 3pm for the information of all the senators. Trial is adjourned.