1 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,800 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The sergeant at arms is directed to make a proclamation. 2 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:19,220 Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 3 00:06:20,250 --> 00:06:29,910 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo. 4 00:06:42,350 --> 00:06:44,710 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Let's bow our heads down. 5 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: I 6 00:06:47,560 --> 00:07:59,700 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: pray today is from 1 Corinthians chapter 13 verses 1 to 7. If I could speak all the languages of the earth and of the angels but did not love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy and if I understood all God's secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains but did not love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it. But if I don't love others, I would have gained nothing. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable. And it keeps on no record of being wrong. It does not rejoice about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith. It's always hopeful and endures through every circumstance. This we ask of you, Almighty God. Amen. 7 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:47,910 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Sen. Judge De La Rosa Sen. Judge Ejercito Sen. Judge Estrada Sen. Judge Goh Sen. Judge Ontiveros Sen. Judge Lacson Sen. Judge Lapid Sen. Judge Legarda Sen. Judge Marcoleta Sen. Judge Marcos Sen. Judge Padilla Sen. Judge Pangilina Sen. Judge Soto III Sen. Judge Tulfo Erwin Sen. Judge Tulfo Rafi Sen. Judge Villanueva Sen. Judge Villar Camil Senator Judge Villar, Mark, Senator Judge Zubiri, the Presiding Officer, Senator Judge Escudero, the Senate President, Senator Judge Gatchalian. 8 00:08:48,430 --> 00:08:52,410 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With 16 Senator Judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a Court. 9 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:53,610 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: In 10 00:08:53,610 --> 00:09:02,210 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: accordance with the Rules of Procedure on Impeachment Trials, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected Presiding Officer to preside over the proceedings of the Impeachment Court. 11 00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:07,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the Impeachment Court. 12 00:09:08,270 --> 00:09:14,130 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026 is the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 13 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:39,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the information of the senator, judges, and the parties, we shall approve the journal of yesterday's proceedings at a later time, given that it is not yet ready due to the long trial yesterday. But hopefully within the day before we adjourn, we shall be able to approve the journal for yesterday's proceedings. Appearances of the parties. 14 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:44,740 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearances for the prosecution. 15 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:47,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the respondent. 16 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:50,420 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the respondent. 17 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:50,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I 18 00:09:50,660 --> 00:09:55,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: presume, Honorable Ridon, Attorney May will again be handling the cross-examination? 19 00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:56,940 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Yes, Your Honor. She will. 20 00:09:58,060 --> 00:10:07,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ronel, I see you in the first gallery. The clerk is directed through the OSAA to kindly situate Attorney Ronel of the MLC to the witness stand. 21 00:10:09,690 --> 00:10:10,210 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Your Honor. 22 00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:12,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Honorable Redon. What is your pleasure, sir? 23 00:10:12,290 --> 00:10:20,110 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: But before proceeding to the continuation of cross, we have several administrative matters relating to the bank representatives. 24 00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:21,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, sir. 25 00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:28,770 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: We would want to know from the court if the subpoenaed banks and their representatives are in fact in attendance today. 26 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:32,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I 27 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was informed, I am being informed rather by the clerk now, that all 28 00:10:55,700 --> 00:11:03,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sabinad officials from banks and insurance companies are here. All 16 of them. 29 00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:07,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sorry, only 15. 30 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:11,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Excuse me. 31 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:12,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, 32 00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:38,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: okay. All 15 banking and insurance companies are here with us. The 16th would be the BAR commissioner. Rather, the BAR official included in the list. 33 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:59,880 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Thank you for the information, Your Honor. If they are in attendance, it is the prosecution's request for a conference of the parties to be undertaken with them so that we can be able to obtain preliminary information relating to their identities, their type of work, and among related matters, Your Honor. 34 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:07,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What does the respondent say? Attorney Sheila or Attorney Mark? Attorney Sheila, yes. 35 00:12:09,230 --> 00:12:10,470 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That's fine with us, Your Honor. 36 00:12:10,930 --> 00:12:17,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can that be done while we're proceeding with the cross and redirect and recross, if any, of Attorney Ranel? 37 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,780 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Yes, Your Honor. It is something we can do. 38 00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:22,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney 39 00:12:22,260 --> 00:12:22,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sheila? 40 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:41,520 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor, just one request in relation to the request for a conference with the prosecution together with the witnesses. We will just ask that this be done under... or with the supervision of the court, Your Honor. 41 00:12:41,940 --> 00:13:04,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, the Clerk of Court is directed to send the representative of the court to oversee the party's conference with the witnesses from the banks and insurance companies. You can proceed to do that while we are doing the cross-redirect and recross, if any, of the witness. 42 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:04,920 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor. 43 00:13:05,580 --> 00:13:07,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anything else, Honorable Ridon? 44 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,620 Rep. Terry L. Ridon: We are done, Your Honor. I will yield to Atty. Divina Grash. 45 00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:20,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Good 46 00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:26,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: morning, Your Honors. 47 00:13:28,330 --> 00:13:30,210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Good morning. 48 00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:52,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Ronel, naunawaan niyo po ba na kayo'y magpapatuloy sa inyong pagbigay ng inyong testimonya sa hukumang ito base sa inyong pinanumpaan kahapon po sa harap ng hukumang ito at sa pamamagitan ng Clerk of Court? 49 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,300 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo, naintindihan po. 50 00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:58,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. 51 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mark, are you ready for your cross? 52 00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:08,720 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yes, Your Honor, but just a short manifestation in order. 53 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed. What is your manifestation? 54 00:14:10,900 --> 00:15:08,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor, I'll just read my manifestation so I don't deviate, but I hope it doesn't take away from the sincerity. In all humility, Your Honor, our intention in cross-examination is to test the credibility of the witness, among others. And part of testing that credibility is to confront him not just with documents but with salient provisions of the law so that we can demonstrate whether or not his interpretation and application of the law is correct. So when we read portions of the law during our cross-examination, it is never our intention to cause intimidation. Especially to the members of this honorable impeachment court, lalong-lalo na po kay Sen. Judge Lapid, who, if I may say, has been very gracious to us. Maraming salamat po sa mahablang ka, sir. But if in any way a different message was indirectly conveyed, I personally apologize and commit to be more circumspect moving forward. Thank you, Your Honor. 55 00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:09,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 56 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:14,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: manifestation of Atty. Mark is well taken and duly noted. Thank you, Atty. Mark. 57 00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:15,560 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Thank you, Your Honor. 58 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If you are ready, you may proceed 59 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:17,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: with your crosser. 60 00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:19,620 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Good morning, Atty. 61 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:20,460 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Buenaventura. 62 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:20,640 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good 63 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:21,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: morning, Your Honor. 64 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:39,620 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, just to provide the starting point, the MLC cannot conclude through a mere reading of the covered transaction reports or CTRs and suspicious transaction reports or STRs that funds were sourced from any unlawful activity, correct? 65 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:45,520 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Conclude? Yes, Your Honor. Only based on what's provided in the records, Your Honor. 66 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:52,910 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, you submitted a report of CTRs and STRs for corporations, correct? 67 00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:54,330 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct, Your Honor. 68 00:15:54,330 --> 00:16:05,090 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: To name a few, GenCorp Industries Inc., Metro City Chow Foods Corporation, and Cale88 Foods Corporation, correct? 69 00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, may I be allowed to check 70 00:16:06,750 --> 00:16:07,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: with my record? 71 00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:26,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May continuing authority is granted to Attorney Ronel to refer to his documents during his testimony. Likewise, continuing authority to assisting counsels from both sides, both parties is given to approach the witness at any point in time. 72 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:31,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, can you repeat po yung corporations mentioned? I just 73 00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:36,170 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: mentioned the several GenCorp industries. Kasama po dyan. Metro City Chow. 74 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:37,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 75 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:39,850 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And then Cali88 Foods Corporation. 76 00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:40,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 77 00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:45,030 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In fact, lahat naman po yung corporation. Wala naman po ibang entities na partnerships. Tama po? 78 00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:45,330 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 79 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:45,470 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. 80 00:16:46,130 --> 00:16:55,930 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po ma-determine, Your Honor, if they are partnerships or corporations. I can't recall if it's indicated in the records, Your Honor. 81 00:16:56,050 --> 00:17:07,950 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Okay. Now, the AMLC merely received the CTRs and STRs from the banks and other covered corporations, correct? 82 00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:09,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, covered persons po. 83 00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:13,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And then after you received them, you summarized them in your reports, tama? 84 00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:32,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In the, in what we submit, we didn't summarize po at least for the juridical persons except yun pong in relation to the request of the prosecution. Prosecution po, Your Honor. 85 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:47,980 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, but let me be more specific. What were submitted to the House Committee on Justice on April 22, 2026 were only summary reports of the CTRs and STRs, correct? 86 00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:49,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: We did not submit 87 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:58,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: to the House Committee on Justice those with pertaining to juridical persons, Your Honor, because they were not included in their subpoena by 88 00:17:58,950 --> 00:18:00,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: back then, Your Honor. 89 00:18:00,050 --> 00:18:06,150 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: To be clarified, sinabit niyo ba sa House of Representatives yung mga mismong CTRs and STRs? 90 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:07,630 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 91 00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:09,730 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Sa House of Committee on Justice? 92 00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:11,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. It was 93 00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:12,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: part of their subpoena, 94 00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:13,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 95 00:18:13,530 --> 00:18:28,030 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Now, in other words, in preparing your reports, let me ask you this question. Do you rely on the actual CTRs? and STRs, meaning the data contained therein. May 96 00:18:28,030 --> 00:18:29,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I ask po what reports are you 97 00:18:29,550 --> 00:18:29,890 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: referring 98 00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:30,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: to, Your Honor? 99 00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:44,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: The reports that you submitted before this court, for example, the financial intelligence report and the several other marked documents, the confidential information sharing report and all those. 100 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:51,990 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: It is as what was stated, Poa, Your Honor, in those documents. If they made reference to the... 101 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:11,070 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Sige. In terms of the tabular summaries, you only base the information that you indicated there on the CTRs and STRs, correct? 102 00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:12,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. That's correct. 103 00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:23,980 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, there was no further verification on the part of the AMLC Whether there were clerical errors in these CTRs or STRs, correct? 104 00:19:25,740 --> 00:19:26,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 105 00:19:27,820 --> 00:19:30,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. It is what appears in the request, Your Honor. 106 00:19:30,380 --> 00:19:30,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So 107 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:40,120 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: no further verification also whether there were inaccuracies or incomplete information in these CTRs or STRs, correct? 108 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As of the time of the subpoena and 109 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: the documents we submitted, yes, Your Honor. We submitted what appeared in the... In our records, Your Honor. 110 00:19:47,700 --> 00:20:03,940 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In fact, in one of your reports submitted to the House Committee on Justice, and you testified on this yesterday, you stated that there was a BPI system bug that caused a discrepancy of over 2 billion pesos in the records of attorney months. 111 00:20:04,060 --> 00:20:13,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Is leading, Your Honor. The witness never mentioned BPI as the one who requested the correction of the report. 112 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,140 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: If you know if it's from BPI. 113 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:21,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it if the witness knows because it also came from the direct that BPI made a correction. 114 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:39,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I never mentioned yesterday any covert person. In fact, if I recall, I mentioned a covert person made a request for correction. If possible, may I be confronted with the document being referred to so I can... Make the necessary answer your honor. 115 00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:46,890 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No, I'm not talking, I've moved on from the corporations. I'm talking now about the CTRs and STRs of attorney months. Do you 116 00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:50,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: recall that there was a rectification made? 117 00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:53,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I did mention your honor. I mentioned there was a cover person who made the request your honor. 118 00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:56,630 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: But I didn't mention any entity your honor. 119 00:20:56,630 --> 00:21:09,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Any entity, okay. Para lang maliwanag, may nireport po ang bangko na 2 billion mahigit for attorney months. Pero ang tamang amount po ay 2 million lamang. Tama? 120 00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:13,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po akong na-mention na ganun, Your Honor. I can't recall anything on that, Your Honor. 121 00:21:13,950 --> 00:21:15,590 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: But can't you 122 00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:20,910 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: testify on that now? Whether you can confirm based on the reports that you made kung meron ganung incident? 123 00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:27,650 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Can I show po the records po, Your Honor? So I can answer based on the records, Your Honor. 124 00:21:27,710 --> 00:21:34,750 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May the witness be confronted with the relevant documents, Your Honor, being referred to by the Defense Council. 125 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We will do that, your honor. 126 00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:38,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move 127 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:38,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: on, counsel. 128 00:21:38,880 --> 00:22:00,240 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'll move on for now as I give time to my assisting counsels. Now, my question is this. You mentioned about that error in the amount of 2 billion pesos. Regardless of whether you said you mentioned or did not mention the name of the entity. 129 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Misleading, your honor. 130 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,420 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'm not yet 131 00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:02,860 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: done with 132 00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:03,340 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: my question. 133 00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:09,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly wait for him to finish his questioning, his question rather, Atty. May. Now, this 134 00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:15,830 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: amount was nevertheless included in your reports that were submitted before the House Committee on Justice, correct? 135 00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:20,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Misleading, Your Honor, because the witness already testified earlier that he never mentioned the amount. 136 00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:21,930 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: He was about to answer, 137 00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:24,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor. That's precisely the reason why I... 138 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:24,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He was asking 139 00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:25,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to be confronted 140 00:22:25,390 --> 00:22:26,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: by the document, Atty. Mark. 141 00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:35,290 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I can just ask him now, Your Honor, are you familiar or do you have personal knowledge of the amount based on the reports? 142 00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:40,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Already asked and answered, Your Honor. That's why the witness requested that he be confronted with the necessary document. 143 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:43,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ronel, would 144 00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:44,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you know? 145 00:22:46,090 --> 00:23:00,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I have a figure in my journal but I know it's not accurate because I know it's not what appears on the record. So if there is a document that I can be confronted with, it would be better po your honor so I can accurately answer that. 146 00:23:00,150 --> 00:23:00,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 147 00:23:00,590 --> 00:23:03,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can in the meantime move on to another topic while you're getting the document. 148 00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:08,850 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We're ready with the document your honor. Can I ask my assisting counsel to confront him with the document? 149 00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:22,840 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: This is actually on page 11. Paragraph 25 of the Confidential Information Sharing Report that the same witness submitted to this honorable court. 150 00:23:24,910 --> 00:23:27,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Are you in that portion already? 151 00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:27,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 152 00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:29,670 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: This is paragraph 25? 153 00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:30,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. Oo. 154 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:32,130 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Can we ask you 155 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:39,880 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: to read the salient portions where an amount was indicated there pertaining to how much? 156 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:41,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po ba? So, 157 00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:44,100 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: can I just read the paragraph 25? 158 00:23:44,180 --> 00:23:45,370 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Go ahead, sir. 159 00:23:45,370 --> 00:24:07,090 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay. Further clarification with BPI, disclosed that the 13 open parenthesis 1, 3, closed parenthesis MCs aggregating PHP 2.339 billion and payable to attorney Carpio were procured by Nutri Asia, 8 billion. 160 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:07,490 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: That's okay. 161 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:20,670 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Can you move on to paragraph 27? Wherein it says... It's the BPI system bug. Can you read the entire paragraph for the record? 162 00:24:21,150 --> 00:25:17,650 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: However, in a letter dated 6 April 2026 signed by the Senior Vice President and Head of BPI's Transaction Banking Division, Institutional Banking Segment, the bank requested for the deletion of 13, open parenthesis, 1, 3, close parenthesis, cover transaction report, open parenthesis. records pertaining to attorney Carpio. According to BPI, a system bug from a source application system resulted in inaccurate amounts on the said records. That based on their verification, the actual amounts of MCs procured for attorney Carpio from the reports affected by the system bug are below PHP 500,000. Open parenthesis ranging from PHP 100,000 to PHP 455,357.14 Close 163 00:25:17,650 --> 00:25:18,310 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: parenthesis. 164 00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:19,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: May 165 00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:21,810 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: total amount ba dyan? Yun sa correct amount? 166 00:25:23,490 --> 00:25:24,130 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Wala. 167 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:28,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala. 168 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,180 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I cannot see. It wasn't specified there. At any rate, the incorrect or the rectified 169 00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:42,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Go ahead. 170 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:43,780 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Is it the 171 00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:56,470 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ang what I read earlier po sa paragraph 25, further clarification with BPI disclosed that the 1313 MCs aggregating PHP 2.33 billion and payable to, 172 00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:59,250 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: ilan po yung may amount na malaking nakalagay? 173 00:25:59,330 --> 00:26:07,250 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So that's the aggregate amount. At any rate, it's indicated there na it had to be rectified. Yan 2.339 billion, correct? 174 00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:28,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Objection, Your Honor. I request that the statement made that the aggregate amount is 2. point three because that the witness never made that conclusion requested to be corrected he just read what was in the document but he never made that conclusion it was uh the defense council who made who supplied that conclusion for the witness that's 175 00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:34,470 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: why we're clarifying your honor because he's the author of this uh or at least one of the 176 00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:34,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He 177 00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:36,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was one of those who wrote that report. 178 00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:37,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, your 179 00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:41,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: honor. Let me clarify. This document existed when I joined. So, when it 180 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:42,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: was a 181 00:26:42,130 --> 00:26:45,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: subpoena, I just requested the... 182 00:26:45,010 --> 00:26:48,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, that's not the table you're referring to. That's the report. 183 00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:53,470 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: How about paragraph 28? Can you read that paragraph for us, please? Just to put clarity. 184 00:26:54,830 --> 00:27:20,570 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Paragraph 28, number 28. With this request and granting that it is already correct this time, it would appear that the total amount of... MCs procured by NAI in favor of a 30-car appeal would only be PHP 2,110,714.29 and not PHP 2,334,617,151.92. 185 00:27:20,570 --> 00:27:21,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So 186 00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:32,030 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: it's clear then that it was first reported as 2 billion plus, the transaction, based on paragraph 28 on your reading of that. But the correct amount should have been only 2 million plus, correct? 187 00:27:32,370 --> 00:28:02,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. It only stated here that with this request and granting if it is already correct this time, it would appear that the total amount, I'm just reading because I cannot make that conclusion. Your Honor, because I'm just basing it on what is stated in the record. It would appear that the total amount MCs procured by NIA in favor of Attorney Carpio would only be PHP 2,110,714.21 and not PHP 2,334,6171,51.92, Your Honor. 188 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:13,440 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay, so isn't it your position that you rectified this amount or no? In your reports, just to make the issue simple. 189 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: in our uh in 190 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:17,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: this report your honor no 191 00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:20,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: no no in uh the in your submissions with uh uh 192 00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:22,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: in our submissions to this honorable 193 00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:22,790 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: correct correct 194 00:28:22,790 --> 00:28:26,250 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yes uh it was correct uh there were rectifications here on 195 00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:30,210 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: oh you know uh that's just my point that that you had to rectify no no 196 00:28:30,210 --> 00:28:51,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: your honor again that's misleading because as testified on yesterday by this witness there were several reasons for the rectification and not just the request from the supposed So we cannot attribute the correction solely from the correction requested by that covered institution. 197 00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:51,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I would have 198 00:28:51,470 --> 00:29:00,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to sustain, Atty. Mark, because I remember the witness yesterday citing three or four reasons for rectification. Would that be correct, Atty. Ranel? 199 00:29:00,630 --> 00:29:01,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct, Your Honor. 200 00:29:02,770 --> 00:29:05,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So not only because of the submission of BPI. 201 00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:07,250 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct, your honor. 202 00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:19,310 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay, let me paraphrase my question, your honor. So the submission of NBI was one of the reasons among others that you rectified that amount from 2 billion to 2 million, correct? 2 billion plus 2 million, correct? 203 00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:21,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: BPI, your honor. You said NBI. 204 00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:22,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: BPI, BPI. 205 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: We... Sorry, can you... 206 00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:31,520 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So that request from BPI was one of the reasons for the rectification, correct? 207 00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:34,520 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Among others, among other 208 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:34,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: reasons. 209 00:30:00,580 --> 00:31:07,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Now, there was a request. We validated that. Of course, the request is simply a request. It can be denied if there's no basis. It can be granted if there's basis. In the same way that we are doing it whenever there are requests from other covered persons. If they want to have it corrected, we have to validate first. But not all the times that we grant them. So, as of the time that they made the request, that was indicated in what I've read. We have to validate that. So at that time, the record stood as it was because we have not yet validated it. They simply sent a letter. When we submitted to this honorable court for transparency or honor, it is already what is already as corrected based on the request because we have validated that. So we never rectified anything because there was no error in the first place when we submitted before the house. at this point because it's it's the bank the covered sorry it's a covered person which made that request and as of the time we haven't yet validated that your honor for clarification and transparency to this honorable court your honor all 210 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,760 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: right but at any rate you validated it and you made the necessary changes 211 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yes your honor that's correct 212 00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:26,560 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: okay so uh my question is this if further verification is necessary is it the banks or the covered institutions or the depositor himself that can provide it? 213 00:31:28,780 --> 00:32:08,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Since the reports are submitted by covered persons, it would be the covered persons who can, who at least in so far as I recall with our guidelines, it's the covered persons because The customer or the account holder are in the first place prohibited from being informed that there is a CTR or STR file. It's actually, as you mentioned, I think one of the provisions cited yesterday, it's confidential. Covered persons cannot inform their clients that CTRs or STRs are reported. So it's actually the covered person who should, in response to your question, Your Honor, who should file that, Your Honor. 214 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:09,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. So, 215 00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:17,190 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: in terms of the investigation, you do this in coordination with your legal evaluation department, correct? 216 00:32:18,970 --> 00:32:19,550 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: LES? 217 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I'm unable to disclose internal operations, your honor. 218 00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:32,000 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: You're also not able to disclose that it's done in coordination with the compliance and investigation department? 219 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I'm unable to make the disclosure. 220 00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:40,220 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: That's okay. But at any rate, as executive director, you can initiate any investigation, correct? 221 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:41,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 222 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,480 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Proactively. 223 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,540 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 224 00:32:43,540 --> 00:32:48,360 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So, and in line with an investigation, you prepare reports, of course. 225 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:50,920 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Of your 226 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:51,820 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: investigation. 227 00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:55,960 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Report on investigation for money laundering, Your Honor. 228 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:56,600 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yes. 229 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 230 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:04,760 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And then, of course, your report is still subject to review by the AMLC, correct? AMLC... 231 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,520 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Council. 232 00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:06,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your 233 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:06,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor. 234 00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:08,060 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Because... 235 00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:16,790 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: As you testified earlier, this is because you act under the control and supervision of the AMLC, correct? 236 00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:22,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. I never mentioned control and supervision. If I recall, that was your words, Your Honor. 237 00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:27,290 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: But you agreed to it. Are you under control and supervision of the AMLC? 238 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,620 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I don't recall if that's the exact wording. 239 00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:33,160 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Or are you independent from 240 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:33,780 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: them? 241 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, I can't recall that it's what I stated in the law, Your Honor. 242 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:49,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, I recall your honor based on what you flash your order is we are there to assist the council in the performance of their mandate, your honor. 243 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:49,620 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay. 244 00:33:50,060 --> 00:34:04,000 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, with regard to your investigation report, the council or the AMLC members can use your report as basis or they can altogether disregard it, correct? 245 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,300 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, your honor. 246 00:34:06,890 --> 00:34:14,030 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yesterday, you identified certain transactions relating to Kale88 Foods Corporation. Do you recall that? 247 00:34:14,030 --> 00:34:14,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 248 00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:24,440 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, my question to you is this. Do you confirm that Kale88 Foods Corporation has a separate and distinct personality from VP Sara? 249 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable to 250 00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:35,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: confirm that. I don't. We have no visibility on who owns or the ownership or what are the interests of VP Saray or 251 00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:37,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: who owns Cale88. 252 00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:37,520 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yeah, 253 00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:38,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: but 254 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:45,820 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: based on your knowledge of the law, corporation has a distinct and separate and distinct juridical personality with an individual. 255 00:34:46,100 --> 00:35:00,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Objection, Your Honor. This witness will be incompetent to testify, Your Honor, because as he has already... Manifested, he has no visibility, is not in possession of any filings with the SEC by this corporation. 256 00:35:00,410 --> 00:35:00,910 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: As 257 00:35:00,910 --> 00:35:04,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: a 258 00:35:04,050 --> 00:35:04,490 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: lawyer, 259 00:35:04,490 --> 00:35:16,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: as a lawyer, you can answer that indeed a corporation is a separate juridical personality from that of a natural person who may or may not be a stockholder of that corporation. 260 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor, in my limited knowledge of the commercial lawyer, corporate law. 261 00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:32,070 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Oh, you're being very modest, attorney. But do you confirm also that Cale88 Foods Corporation has a separate and distinct personality from attorney Manz? 262 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:38,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In the first place, Your Honor, this witness has never testified that he is aware that this entity is indeed the corporation. 263 00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:39,210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the objection, 264 00:35:39,210 --> 00:35:39,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor? 265 00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:47,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The objection is misleading, Your Honor. It assumes a fact not yet on record, at least based on the testimony of this witness. 266 00:35:47,970 --> 00:35:48,230 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Just 267 00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:54,360 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: trying to elicit, Your Honor, and information from what he knows as a lawyer. 268 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:54,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Then you 269 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: should, Your Honor, lay down the predicate. 270 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:17,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can rephrase it. You can reform counsel and simply state that the corporation is a separate, distinct personality from natural persons such as, because again, the witness would be incompetent with respect to knowledge as to whether or not attorney mans or the vice president is a stockholder of the corporation. 271 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:29,440 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'll just adopt that phrasing from the presiding officer. Do you confirm that Cale88 Foods Corporation has a separate and distinct personalities from natural persons? 272 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:30,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: From natural 273 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:36,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: persons? From my limited knowledge of corporation law, yes, Your Honor. 274 00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:39,780 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And those natural persons include attorney man, Scorpio, correct? 275 00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:43,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I'm not sure, Your Honor, if attorney man is a stockholder. 276 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:43,440 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: If 277 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:56,860 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: a stockholder, Your Honor. Alright, now to be more precise. AMLC records show that remittances were made to Kale88 Foods Corporation and not to VP Sara and Attorney Mance, correct? 278 00:36:56,860 --> 00:36:58,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct, based on records, Your Honor. 279 00:37:00,420 --> 00:37:14,120 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, my question to you is this. Does the AMLC have any record of how much of these transactions by Kale88 Foods Corporation redounded to the benefit of VP Sara and Attorney Mance? 280 00:37:16,330 --> 00:37:22,610 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Redounded to the benefit, Your Honor? There is none. It's only based on what we have on the record, sir. 281 00:37:22,610 --> 00:37:23,070 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, done. 282 00:37:23,490 --> 00:37:35,130 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, let me direct your attention to this news article that came out yesterday from GMA News Online. Can you see what's flashed on the screen, sir? We have a hard copy. 283 00:37:36,940 --> 00:37:40,760 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: It says here, I'll just read the title and the first sentence for the sake of time. 284 00:37:42,600 --> 00:38:18,540 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: China denies giving money to Philippine political group in wake of Trillanes' claims. The first sentence reads, The Chinese embassy in Manila has branded as a quote-unquote false narrative the allegations that China has funneled funds to a political faction in the Philippines, calling them malicious rhetoric and actions. Now, do you recall that yesterday you testified on several China-based entities that had transactions with Cale88? Do you recall that? 285 00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:18,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your 286 00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:28,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor. I only read what's indicated in the records, Your Honor. Although, if I recall, there were names pointed that it sounds in Chinese, Your Honor. 287 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:42,180 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Ah, okay. So my question to you is this. Do the records of AMLA show that those entities that you mentioned are not legitimate business entities? May nakalagay ba sa records? 288 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:43,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. There's nothing in the 289 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: records. 290 00:38:44,180 --> 00:39:07,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, before the cross-examination continues, may we request that what is being flashed on the screen be taken down because the relevance of this document has not yet been shown and it's objectionable on so many levels, Your Honor. The witness is incompetent to testify on that. It's hearsay. The truth of the allegations therein has not yet been established. And it's completely irrelevant, Your Honor. 291 00:39:07,710 --> 00:39:13,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And I believe Attorney Mark is already done with that too. Correct me if I'm wrong, Attorney Mark. We can take 292 00:39:13,110 --> 00:39:13,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it down 293 00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:13,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at this point, 294 00:39:13,890 --> 00:39:13,950 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor. 295 00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:15,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you're already done with it. 296 00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:17,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I already confronted the witness with it anyway. 297 00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:36,140 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, more importantly, do the records of AMLC show that China-based entities that you mentioned yesterday represent China itself or the Chinese government? Meron ba ganun sa records niyo? 298 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:40,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As far as I recall, yesterday, there is no mention about it, Your Honor. 299 00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:55,420 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No mention. In other words, in line with your testimony now, and from what we read from the article a while ago, no records of AMLC show that China as a country funneled funds to Cale88, correct? 300 00:39:55,420 --> 00:39:59,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As far as I recall, and based on the record, there is no showing, Your Honor. 301 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:19,310 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Thank you for that answer. Now, I mentioned that News article about China. You have a department in AMLC called the Investigation and Enforcement Department-Financial Crimes Investigation Group or IED-FCIG, correct? 302 00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:21,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yeah, that is correct, Your Honor. 303 00:40:21,450 --> 00:40:33,950 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Now, my only question relating to that news article, can the IED-FCIG take notice of articles like this? In relation to its investigation, if any? 304 00:40:36,450 --> 00:40:39,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That I am unable to confirm your honor. 305 00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:43,410 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: What do you mean? You cannot answer 306 00:40:43,410 --> 00:40:43,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: based 307 00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:44,070 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: on 308 00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:44,890 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: confidentiality? 309 00:40:44,890 --> 00:40:44,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I mean, that article, 310 00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:59,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: because I, well, number one, it's the first time I'm seeing the article. Of course, I'm not sure if it's that something that... Our investigation unit would indeed take cognizance, Your Honor. 311 00:40:59,260 --> 00:40:59,420 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: But 312 00:40:59,420 --> 00:41:06,160 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: can that particular department take cognizance of news articles in general in relation to the investigations that you make? 313 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:15,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Take cognizance, Your Honor, in the sense that it's being seen. I mean, if it is published in the internet, it can be seen, Your Honor. 314 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,340 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: When they see it, do they consider it in their investigation? 315 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: It 316 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:32,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: could be... As one of the things that they may look but I'm not sure if I don't know the article your honor so I cannot say if it is indeed something to look at 317 00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:33,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: in the first place. 318 00:41:33,130 --> 00:41:43,150 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We're okay with that answer. One last point on this. Based on your records, may money laundering case ba that is pending against Cale88 or any of its officers? 319 00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:45,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable to disclose any investigation not 320 00:41:45,690 --> 00:41:47,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: covered in the subpoena your honor. 321 00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:54,410 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Based on the records, meron na bang na-convict? For any money laundering case, ang kahit sinong officer ng Cale88? 322 00:41:54,410 --> 00:41:57,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I have no personal knowledge who are the officers of Cale88. 323 00:41:57,530 --> 00:42:11,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: That's okay. Let's move on to the CTRs and STRs. When banks and covered persons submit CTRs and STRs, do they submit or attach supporting documents like bank ledgers for example? 324 00:42:15,740 --> 00:42:31,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As far as I know, There are times that they do, but I apologize your honor, I'm not certain it would be subject to our AMLC registration reporting guidelines and our other reporting guidelines. 325 00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:37,310 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yeah, that's okay. But do you know if they submit deposit slips, for example, as supporting documents? 326 00:42:37,310 --> 00:42:37,570 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am 327 00:42:37,570 --> 00:42:39,990 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: unable to know 328 00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:40,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: or 329 00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:40,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: recall your 330 00:42:40,890 --> 00:42:41,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: honor on that. 331 00:42:41,370 --> 00:42:42,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Unable. 332 00:42:42,010 --> 00:42:44,110 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: How about transaction history records? 333 00:42:47,110 --> 00:42:48,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, your honor. 334 00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:56,320 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No? How about internal credit and debit memos of the bank accounts as supporting documents to these CTRs and STRs? 335 00:42:58,100 --> 00:42:58,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, 336 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:18,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: if I recall, and of course subject to, because there are a lot of guidelines issued in relation to the reporting, if I recall, there are reports, at least STRs, wherein AMLC may be able, can require 337 00:43:21,340 --> 00:43:28,540 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: records to be filed together with STRs, Your Honor, but subject to what is provided in our guidelines, Your Honor. 338 00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:28,920 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. 339 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:29,920 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Here's a 340 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:36,640 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: more pointed question. Does the AMLC witness the actual conduct of each transaction? 341 00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:41,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. We only base on the records, Your Honor. 342 00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:52,430 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Does the AMLC personnel know the personal circumstances of the parties involved in the transaction? 343 00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:52,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: If 344 00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:59,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: only basing on the CTRs and STRs, no, your honor. Only the details as indicated there when the date of transaction, etc. 345 00:44:00,130 --> 00:44:06,010 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No, does the AMLC personnel gain personal knowledge on the party's business interests, for example? 346 00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:08,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Not unless they, 347 00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:14,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: based on the records, no, on the CTRs, STRs alone, your honor, no. Unless further investigation 348 00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:16,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: is conducted, your honor. 349 00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:28,320 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In other words, based on the CTRs and STRs alone, The AMLC has no personal knowledge of the underlying transactions of each items in the CTRs and STRs, correct? 350 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:28,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct. 351 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: It is only what appears on our records. 352 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:33,540 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Hence, 353 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:42,740 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: the AMLC cannot determine the legality or illegality of the transactions based solely on the CTRs and STRs, correct? 354 00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:57,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. Let me clarify. We're not... Based on the CTRs or STRs, if you look at it, we're not determining, there's no entry there which states whether it's illegal or not. 355 00:44:57,340 --> 00:44:59,720 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Kaya hindi niyo po malalaman. 356 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:25,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: We're not determining, I mean, in the first place, we're not determining on the basis alone of reported CTRs or STRs whether the underlying transaction is immediately illegal or not. As part of our duties or others, as mentioned yesterday, we analyze this and then, of course, if needed, conduct investigation, file with the court, and only then we're able to establish. And even then, on our end, it's for the courts to determine if 357 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: there's illegality or not. 358 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:38,020 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, for the courts to determine. Thank you for that answer. Now let's talk about suspicious transaction reports in particular. The AMLC only records STRs as reported by banks and other covered... 359 00:45:39,550 --> 00:45:46,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Without making any independent verification as to the basis used by the banks, correct? 360 00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:47,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sorry, the AMLC 361 00:45:47,810 --> 00:45:49,610 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: does what, Your Honor? 362 00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:54,750 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: They only record or receives STRs. 363 00:45:54,750 --> 00:45:55,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ah, receives. Yes, Your Honor. 364 00:45:55,910 --> 00:46:01,780 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And without making any independent verification on how the banks classified. 365 00:46:01,780 --> 00:46:05,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is not required under the law and the rules your honor. 366 00:46:05,220 --> 00:46:19,120 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In other words, para maintindihan po na nating lahat, malayang hinahayaan ng AMLC ang mga bangko at iba pang covered persons na mag-classify ng transactions as suspicious. Tama? 367 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:49,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa pag-classify, tama po. Pero sila po ay subject, I think nabanggit ko po. To the guidelines. guidelines at kasama rin po yung supervision and audit po sa kanila. So kasama na rin po yung BSP nag-audit, other regulators po, SEC, Insurance Commission po, and then kami rin po nag-audit. So yung sinasabit po nila, maaaring po sabit po nila, pero yun po ay subject to audit, kami rin po subject to our checking din as well, Your Honor. Of 368 00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:58,390 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: course. Now, for the record, the AMLC operates under a low threshold. reporting of suspicious activity, correct? 369 00:46:58,510 --> 00:47:03,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Vague, Your Honor. What does low threshold of report, what does that even mean, Your Honor? 370 00:47:04,090 --> 00:47:07,590 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: It's in the law, Your Honor, and the witness is intelligent enough to answer. 371 00:47:07,590 --> 00:47:11,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he knows, if he knows, Atty. May, if you know, Atty. Rodel, 372 00:47:11,350 --> 00:47:11,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sorry, 373 00:47:11,850 --> 00:47:12,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: can 374 00:47:12,010 --> 00:47:12,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: you 375 00:47:12,130 --> 00:47:12,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: repeat po? 376 00:47:12,610 --> 00:47:17,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Low threshold po ba o high threshold ang ginagamit nyo in terms of reporting of suspicious activity? 377 00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:36,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: The law did not mention any threshold, Your Honor. The law says, regardless of the amount, So it could be a suspicious transaction could be higher than the threshold or it could be lower than the threshold as long as the presence of suspicious circumstances are there, 378 00:47:37,150 --> 00:47:37,650 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 379 00:47:37,650 --> 00:47:49,070 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yeah, we're okay with that answer. It means that banks and other covered transactions are encouraged to report transactions as suspicious even if not yet conclusive. Tama? 380 00:47:49,070 --> 00:47:49,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your 381 00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:51,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Honor, the term encouraged is 382 00:47:53,190 --> 00:48:05,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Wrong, Your Honor. So the ground for objection is misleading, Your Honor. Covert institutions are required to report suspicious transactions. They are not just encouraged to report suspicious transactions. 383 00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:10,730 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: He can just admit or deny, Your Honor. Anyway, that's the word that I used. If the witness can answer. 384 00:48:11,110 --> 00:48:17,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness is intelligent enough and you have made him aware already of the word encouraged so let him answer accordingly. 385 00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:20,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: The law is... I guess you're on policy, 386 00:48:20,110 --> 00:48:25,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po. So, the law use the word required, Your Honor. So, they're required to report suspicious 387 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,540 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: transactions, Your Honor. 388 00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:32,060 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, that's even. But even if not yet conclusive, that's my only point. Ah, sorry. 389 00:48:33,620 --> 00:48:39,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, the threshold is suspicious or suspicion or suspicious circumstances, Your Honor. 390 00:48:40,960 --> 00:49:10,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So that I cannot say whether it's conclusive or not but on the end of the covered person it's for them to determine based on the profile of their client based on the nature of the transaction whether this transaction is or activity is suspicious or not whether if on their end it is conclusive or not it's for them the threshold at least insofar as the law requires is suspicion or suspicious but if they are It could be that on their end, they have conclusively determined, but we have no personal knowledge on that, Your Honor. 391 00:49:11,170 --> 00:49:28,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With your indulgence, Atty. Mark, what do the guidelines or the law say when it made mention of the word require? When in doubt, should banks report? Or when in doubt, banks will not? 392 00:49:31,420 --> 00:49:31,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We're 393 00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:33,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pertaining to suspicious transactions only. 394 00:49:34,120 --> 00:50:06,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, in our guidelines, as far as I recall, Your Honor, and subject to what the actual guidelines provide, we have a definition there of what suspicion is. And this is also based on the law, which enumerates the suspicious circumstances. Essentially, suspicion po is one based on the knowledge of the covered person or reporting entity based on the profile of the client and taking account all other circumstances. to determine whether or not there is a suspicious circumstance. 395 00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:10,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, a lot of basis is placed on the bank's KYC? 396 00:50:11,370 --> 00:50:12,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: That is correct. 397 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:26,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: KYC, your owner, transaction of the account owner as well, your owner. So, yung KYC po kasi pang simula lang po yun eh. So, ma-determine yung profile. So, 398 00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:29,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: KYC for the information of the public, your client, 399 00:50:29,820 --> 00:50:30,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and 400 00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:34,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: or if the client is a PEP. or a politically exposed person. 401 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:35,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama rin po 402 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yan sa kinoconsider po nila. So 403 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:45,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the determination of whether or not a transaction is suspicious regardless of amount is subjective based on the appreciation of the covered person. 404 00:50:47,720 --> 00:51:16,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Subjective, Your Honor, yes, pero based po dun sa mga parameters po under the law. So kasama po dun yung, yun nga po, i-evaluate yung profile ng client, ano ba yung mga nature ng transactions po niya na papasok labas, gaano karami, gaano kadalas, and then yung pong, of course, may mga... In-issue po ang AMLC as well as other regulators po ng mga potential red flags based din po sa mga studies at saka mga guidelines po namin. So, they have to consider all of this together, Your Honor. 405 00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:31,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Without belaboring the point, as you said, subject to the audit of AMLC, of SEC, of IC, of BSP, there is a wide discretion on the part of a covered institution whether or not to declare a transaction suspicious or not. 406 00:51:33,480 --> 00:53:15,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I would answer that yes your honor because and let me clarify po so as not to mislead this honorable court po. Different covered persons have different profile of their clients because of the nature of the services that they render your honor. So yung bangko po Halimbawa po malaking bank o universal bank or commercial bank, more likely po ang mga clients po niya medyo affluent, yung po medyo mayaman or malaking business po. So yung profile po ng clients niya, siyempre ibabase po niya dun sa, yung pag-report po niya kung suspicious or hindi, base po dun sa client niya. Kung meron po tayong isang e-wallet, halimbawa po e-wallet or maliit na pawn shop, Siyempre po, yung profile po ng mga customer niya, iba po dun sa isa. So, they have to tailor po yung pag-profile, pag-analyze po. At lahat po yung documented po kasi required po yun sa tinatawag natin na money laundering and terrorism financing prevention program. Ang dami po mga reports na sinasubmit sa, or required po under the law, regulations po namin, pati ng BSP, SEC, IC po. So, totoo po na subjective, pero... Hindi po siya subjective na parang one tone or parang random na o sige parang okay ito ganyan i-file natin. Hindi po. Kasi po ang dami pong depende po sa profile, customer, sa service, sa risk po ng client po, nung service, kasama din po yun. So, ayun po your honor. So, and of course subject to the audit pa rin po yun ng mga institutions po, financial regulators po. 407 00:53:15,940 --> 00:53:16,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you for that clarification. 408 00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:18,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your witness, Attorney Martin. 409 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:30,220 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Just a few more points on this. At any rate, the filing of STRs is a compliance measure and not a legal conclusion of illegal activity, correct? 410 00:53:30,220 --> 00:53:33,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: It's a requirement under the law, Your Honor. 411 00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:36,020 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Not a conclusion of illegal activity, correct? 412 00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:37,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Of legal... 413 00:53:37,340 --> 00:53:38,840 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Illegal activity. 414 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:47,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Illegal activity. Yes, sir. We cannot determine illegality on the premise of just a report, Your Honor. 415 00:53:47,550 --> 00:53:55,400 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In other words, an STR is therefore not a legal conclusion that there is money laundering, correct? 416 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: A legal conclusion that there 417 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:02,960 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: is money laundering? Yes, Your Honor. It's actually even for the courts to decide whether there 418 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: is 419 00:54:03,140 --> 00:54:03,660 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: money 420 00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:04,580 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: laundering. 421 00:54:04,580 --> 00:54:11,540 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And similarly, it is not a legal conclusion that the transaction is illegal, correct? 422 00:54:11,540 --> 00:54:17,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Again, Your Honor, it's also for the courts if eventually a case is filed, Your Honor. 423 00:54:17,530 --> 00:54:28,750 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yesterday, you were confronted with several STRs and you even read several explanations from banks why they categorize those transactions as suspicious. Nalala niyo po? 424 00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:29,510 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 425 00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:34,490 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In fact, may three slides. Nakikita niyo po ba yung slides kahapon nung binabasa niyo yung STR? 426 00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:35,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Doon po ba? 427 00:54:35,230 --> 00:54:37,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Oo. Hindi niyo nakikita yung slides kahapon? 428 00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:37,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Near 429 00:54:37,890 --> 00:54:38,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: -sighted po 430 00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:38,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: eh. 431 00:54:38,790 --> 00:54:44,150 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: By the way, for the record, did you personally consent to the flashing of those slides yesterday? 432 00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:56,170 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'll 433 00:54:56,170 --> 00:55:06,650 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: confront you with the specific slides yesterday. Yesterday kasi may pinalabas na slide, may nakalagay DPWH flood control issue. Nakita niyo po yan? 434 00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:07,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po nakita 435 00:55:07,810 --> 00:55:07,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yan. 436 00:55:08,050 --> 00:55:10,790 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Nakita niyo yung Shabu importation? 437 00:55:10,790 --> 00:55:14,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa slide, yung tanong niyo po is yung sa slide po. Hindi ko po nakita, you're on. 438 00:55:14,750 --> 00:55:16,390 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Nabasa niyo lang doon sa records. 439 00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:18,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung pinapoint lang po, you're on. 440 00:55:18,930 --> 00:55:24,210 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Nakita niyo ba doon yung malversation of public funds and property? Do you recall that or hindi na? 441 00:55:24,270 --> 00:55:25,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Parang, parang po 442 00:55:25,830 --> 00:55:26,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: may naririnig po. 443 00:55:27,370 --> 00:55:27,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Meron. 444 00:55:27,690 --> 00:55:35,530 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Now, at any rate, hango ang mga ito sa STRs na ipinasa ng mga bangko, correct? 445 00:55:35,530 --> 00:55:36,170 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 446 00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:56,270 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. And then inisa-isa doon kahapon yung mga reference numbers, yung mga dates. Now, dun sa tatlong binanggit ko na subject matters, DPWH flood control issue, Shabu importation, tsaka yung malversation of public funds and property, nagbase ang mga banks sa news articles na available to the public. Tama? 447 00:55:56,270 --> 00:55:56,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your 448 00:55:56,410 --> 00:55:58,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Honor, this witness will be incompetent and testify 449 00:55:58,310 --> 00:55:58,990 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: based on what 450 00:55:58,990 --> 00:56:02,210 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: he read yesterday. He read that yesterday. Pero 451 00:56:02,210 --> 00:56:08,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: hindi ko na po maalala sa dami po nung... Mga naging tanong kung pwede po makita ko ulit. So I can confirm po, Your Honor. 452 00:56:09,780 --> 00:56:33,140 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor, our predicament is what was presented yesterday was the court's copy and we don't have our individual copies because we marked No, no, no, Your Honor. We marked actually the prosecution's exhibit as well. So the court's copy has the signature of the prosecution and defense. 453 00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:50,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Allow me to bridge the gap. Attorney Ronel, you remember reading from the actual reports yesterday, what was flashed on the screen that you could not see? You remember reading the reason why it was considered suspicious, why it was reported? 454 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Marami po pinabasa, Your Honor. 455 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:53,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tatlo, apat 456 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: lang po yung kahapon ko, naalala ko. 457 00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,020 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: May meron po yung mahaba po, Your Honor. So I can't recall that I was asked to read, Your Honor. 458 00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:10,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: About three or four times, right? And that reference to newspaper articles were mentioned in all of those references. Would you recall that? 459 00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:15,210 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable to recall, Your Honor, if I may be confronted with the documents. 460 00:57:16,930 --> 00:57:19,010 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor, we can just move on to a new point. 461 00:57:19,090 --> 00:57:28,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyway, he said... Try to get the TSN counsel, but in the meantime, kindly move on and we can confront the witness with what he read yesterday. 462 00:57:28,010 --> 00:57:29,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Based 463 00:57:29,050 --> 00:57:43,000 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: lang dun sa vague memory niyo, no? Based on the STRs alone, masisiguro ba ng AMLC na involved yung transactions ni VP Sara sa DPWH flood control issue? 464 00:57:44,910 --> 00:57:52,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Based on STR, masisiguro. We have to conduct pa po analysis, investigation if 465 00:57:52,670 --> 00:57:53,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: warranted po. 466 00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:56,900 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So the short answer is no. Based on the STRs alone. 467 00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:58,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 468 00:57:58,140 --> 00:58:05,960 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Based on the STRs alone, masisiguro ba ng AMLC na involved yung transactions ni VP Sara sa Shabu importation? 469 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:06,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your 470 00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:26,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Honor, at this point, to borrow the words of the defense, I've already given them so much leeway in asking these questions. The witness has already testified. that whether or not an illegal activity has been committed is not for them to rule on or to decide. It's for the courts. So, this line of questioning, Your Honor, would be relevant. 471 00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:33,290 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor, I'm confronting the witness with specific STRs that he recalled from yesterday. I 472 00:58:33,290 --> 00:58:51,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: believe it's only fair, counsel, to confront the witness with what he read yesterday. If indeed... If indeed they have personal knowledge or can say that these are valid and true. So, witness has been confronted with respect to the flood control. Where are you now at? 473 00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:53,890 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Shabu Importation, Your Honor. I 474 00:58:53,890 --> 00:58:56,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: guess it's the same answer. Kindly answer, Attorney Ronel. 475 00:58:56,770 --> 00:59:05,220 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Based on the STRs alone, ba masisiguro niyo ba na-involve yung transactions ni VP Sara sa Shabu Importation? 476 00:59:05,220 --> 00:59:06,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Alone, Your Honor. 477 00:59:06,060 --> 00:59:06,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: We 478 00:59:06,180 --> 00:59:06,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: have to 479 00:59:06,380 --> 00:59:09,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: conduct further investigation if needed or warranted, Your Honor. 480 00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:19,720 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Huli na po. Base po dun sa STRs, masisiguro niyo po ba ng AMLC na involved yung transactions ni VP Sara sa malversation of public funds or property? 481 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: On that alone, no, Your Honor. We have to verify and conduct investigation if 482 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:23,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: necessary. 483 00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:33,200 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We're okay with that. Thank you, Mr. Attorney Beneventura. Now, the CTRs and STRs for corporations 484 00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:43,230 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Do you recall submitting those as well? For corporations, yung nakalista kanina. 485 00:59:44,410 --> 00:59:45,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'm 486 00:59:45,050 --> 00:59:55,260 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: just laying the basis. Now, they also do not prove that VP Sara, through any of these corporations, committed money laundering, correct? 487 00:59:55,260 --> 00:59:55,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: On 488 00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:01,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: the basis of the CTRs, STRs alone, Your Honor. Not at that point, Your Honor. 489 01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:01,780 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay. 490 01:00:01,860 --> 01:00:15,180 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: And may mga transactions na attributed to these corporations. Hindi naman lahat ng income ng corporations ay income din ni VP Sara at attorney months, correct? 491 01:00:15,180 --> 01:00:15,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I have no 492 01:00:15,860 --> 01:00:20,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: personal knowledge on the income of the persons or entities you've mentioned, Your Honor. 493 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:36,970 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. And unless there is a showing that these corporations are wholly owned by VP Sara and attorney months, Their actual interests therein must be specifically defined before the CTRs and STRs can be attributed to them. 494 01:00:46,770 --> 01:00:57,650 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yung mga interest nila doon sa corporation na yun must be specifically defined. Kailangan malaman natin. Before yung CTRs or STRs can be attributed to the couple. Tama po? 495 01:00:57,650 --> 01:00:58,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your 496 01:00:58,110 --> 01:01:13,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor, yung CTRs and STRs po kasi namin hindi naman po namin nire-require na at least at that point to identify who owns or what owns po eh. So we are unable to confirm that or to answer that it's not. Based on the records you're on. 497 01:01:13,900 --> 01:01:17,060 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: At any rate, iba yung pang corporation. Iba yung para sa mag-asawa. 498 01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:18,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 499 01:01:18,140 --> 01:01:19,200 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In terms of the CPRs. 500 01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:20,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In the way, yes, sir. 501 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,640 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Reported separately you're on. 502 01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:36,240 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, to mention sa news article kanina si former Senator Terlianes, let me direct your attention to exhibits D-2-2 and D-2-1. May I be shown with that? I'll just read the title. 503 01:01:38,690 --> 01:01:42,290 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: This is an issue once from the AMLC. I understand that 504 01:01:46,630 --> 01:02:07,530 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: BSP-AMLC, deny releasing alleged Duterte bank account documents. And then there's a highlighted portion there says, Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas, BSP, and the AMLC, Anti-Money Laundering Council, are not the source of the documents and information being cited by a vice presidential candidate. 505 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:17,010 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: This was sourced from the website of AMLC. 506 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,960 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Hindi niyo ba nakikita yung naka-highlight po? 507 01:02:23,140 --> 01:02:26,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi, yung masyado po maliit. Ano po yung naka-highlight? 508 01:02:26,980 --> 01:02:29,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly point it out as listening counsel is directed. 509 01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:43,920 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: My question is this, based on the records of the AMLC, maybe we're not yet around, but based on the records, do you know If former Senator Trillanes requested files from AMLC in the past? 510 01:02:45,380 --> 01:02:51,500 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable, since this matter is not included in this opinion, Your Honor, I was not able to... 511 01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:52,480 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Review? 512 01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:53,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 513 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:53,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 514 01:02:53,400 --> 01:03:08,600 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay lang po. But let me ask you this general, more general question. Is it even legal for a third party like former Senator Trillanes to request access... to files from the AMLC database such as CTRs and STRs. 515 01:03:08,620 --> 01:03:14,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Misleading, Your Honor, because there has been no prior testimony that Senator Trillanes in fact requested documents from AMLC. Okay. 516 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:15,840 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No, I said 517 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:16,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: third party 518 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,700 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: like former Senator Trillanes. Just 519 01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:26,770 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the same, Your Honor. There has been no testimony. On record yet that a third party has in fact requested documents. 520 01:03:26,770 --> 01:03:27,130 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Then 521 01:03:27,130 --> 01:03:37,010 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I'll remove the name. I'll paraphrase the question. Is it even legal for a third party to request access to files from the AMLC database such as CTRs or STRs? Legal po ba yun? 522 01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:44,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, they can request but we'll have to evaluate and if more likely deny based on our rules and guidelines. 523 01:03:45,110 --> 01:03:58,940 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: More likely deny. Okay. Paano po kung isang forensic expert, for example, gusto mag-aral ng financial history po? Ni VP Sara at Atty. Mans. Mari po bang lumapit sa AMLC at humingi ng access sa mga CTRs at STRs? 524 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:01,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I would say no, Your Honor. 525 01:04:01,820 --> 01:04:02,860 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: No. Okay. 526 01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:26,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Atty. Bonaventura, malaki po yung mga aggregate amounts contained in your tabular summaries. Pero para lang po maliwanag, yung tabular summaries and reports po ba na yun ay conclusive proof of VP Saras and Atty. Mans Cash on hand or cash in bank? 527 01:04:27,490 --> 01:04:34,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. What the records would only show are the transactions, not the cash in hand or cash on 528 01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:34,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: hand. 529 01:04:34,830 --> 01:04:42,250 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. Yung tabular summaries and reports po ba nayon ay conclusive proof of unexplained wealth on the part of VP Sara? 530 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:51,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, all I can say is the tabulation is based on the reported transactions, Your Honor. 531 01:04:51,060 --> 01:04:52,040 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So, you cannot... 532 01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:01,420 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Are they conclusive proof of ill-gotten wealth on the part of VP Sara? 533 01:05:01,420 --> 01:05:03,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: For the same answer, 534 01:05:03,380 --> 01:05:06,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I can only rely on what's provided in the record, Your Honor. 535 01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:14,500 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Just as they are not conclusive proof of the true wealth of VP Sara in attorney months as declared in their SALNs, correct? 536 01:05:15,210 --> 01:05:21,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I have no knowledge on their SALN, Your Honor, but again, this is only based on the reported transactions, Your Honor. 537 01:05:21,570 --> 01:05:35,850 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright, so in other words, Atty. Buenaventura, as AMLC Director, you simply do not have personal knowledge that will clearly establish that VP Sara amassed hundreds of millions or billions, tama? 538 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:49,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I have no personal knowledge, Your Honor, but what I'm testifying only is What are indicated in the records regarding transactions reported to us, Your Honor? 539 01:05:49,150 --> 01:05:51,810 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Thank you for that answer. That would be all, Your Honor. 540 01:05:56,250 --> 01:05:57,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney May, any redirect? 541 01:05:58,210 --> 01:06:11,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. We'll be conducting a few redirects, Your Honor. But may I just, Your Honor, be given time to organize the questions? Given the number of questions that were propounded throughout the cross-examination. 542 01:06:11,580 --> 01:06:33,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll give you a few minutes, Attorney May. Probably one or two senator-judges to intervene with the permission of Attorney Mark as well because you will be having a Yuri Cross still. They do depend. So the chair will allow senator-judges to make their interjections in the meantime. The first one on my list based on yesterday's... 543 01:06:35,980 --> 01:06:42,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On Annika's list yesterday is the Honorable Ontiveros. Senator Judge Ontiveros is recognized. 544 01:06:43,550 --> 01:06:46,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed ma'am when you're ready. You have two minutes. 545 01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:57,970 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang umaga po Atty. Buenaventura. 546 01:06:58,130 --> 01:07:00,730 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magandang umaga po Honorable Senator Judge. 547 01:07:02,790 --> 01:07:25,130 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So nabanggit po na may mga covered at saka suspicious transaction reports sa 319 million pesos na pumasok sa Cale88 mula sa China. Kasama po sa red flag ay dahil walang lehitimong transaksyon sa likod ng perang pinadala. 548 01:07:27,030 --> 01:07:33,620 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Inimbestigahan na po ba ng AMLOC ang mga Chinese companies na katransaksyon ng Cale88? 549 01:07:35,930 --> 01:07:57,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I'm unable to answer po with that. The only documents related to what we were subpoenaed po, yung pong mga nasubmit po namin na summary report po, financial investigation report, financial investigation report, Antony Carpio, confidential information sharing, Your Honor. 550 01:08:01,550 --> 01:08:10,650 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So, hindi po ito mga bunga pa ng investigasyon ng AMLAC dun sa mga Chinong katransaksyon na kumpanya ng Cale88? 551 01:08:11,110 --> 01:08:13,590 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable to answer, Your Honor. 552 01:08:13,790 --> 01:08:47,510 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright po. Kaya ako po ito tinanong dahil tinignan ko ng opisina ko yung mga ito, yung mga binanggit na mga kumpanya kahapon at lumalabas na ilan? Sa nagpadala ng pera sa Cale88 ay mga Chinese state-owned enterprises. Isa na po doon yung pinakitang China National Township Enterprises. Base po sa research ng opisina ko, dating quote directly under the Ministry of Agriculture. 553 01:08:49,120 --> 01:09:03,180 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: At naging isang, quote, large state-owned agricultural enterprise under the supervision of the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council, close quote. 554 01:09:04,810 --> 01:11:59,400 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: At sa public profiles po ng China National Township Enterprises na yon, binibida nung kumpanya na sila daw ay, quote, committed to serving the implementation of the country's Belt and Road Initiative and foreign policy. Yun namang isa pa po na pinakita kahapon, Beijing Zhen Weifang Food Company. Ayon sa open source research, pagmamayari po yan, Beijing Zhen Weifang Food Company pagmamayari siya ng Xinjiang Fruit Industry Group na nabanggit mismo sa company materials. I'll just finish, wrap up with this first question, Mr. Presiding Officer. Nabanggit mismo sa company materials ng Xinjiang Fruit Industry Group. ngayong 2026. Kumpirmado din po itong Xinjiang Fruit ay series A investor sa Beijing Zhenwei Fang. Mayroon ding strategic cooperation agreement itong dalawang kumpanya, yung Beijing at saka yung Xinjiang mula pa 2019. Bakit po ito mahalaga ah, Atty. Buenaventura? Dahil itong Xinjiang Fruit Industry Group ay hindi ordinaryong kumpanya. It's a Chinese state-owned enterprise. It advances the interests of the Chinese Communist Party. Sa mismong corporate governance structure ng Xinjiang Fruit, may institutional Chinese Communist Party organization na naka-embed. It has its own Chinese Communist Party Committee, Party Committee Organization Department, at 11 subordinate subcommittees o party branches. Lumalabas rin po na yung chairman ng Beijing Zhenwei Fang ay miyembro ng District Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference o CPPCC. Ayon sa isang US Economic and Security Report, delegates to the CPPCC serve as proxies for Chinese Communist Party interests and they frequently act as interlocutors with foreign government officials, businesses, and academic institutions. Sa Canada naman, sinabi na the premier overt United Front organization is the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. At sa isang report naman sa Australia, parte ng Key united front groups and events linked to foreign interference ang CPPCC at nilarawan nito bilang peak united front forum. So ang tanong ko po, Atty. Buenaventura, yung mga ganitong linkages ba ay tinitignan ng AMLANC? 555 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:02,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, apologies po. 556 01:12:04,420 --> 01:12:15,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: At this point po yung na-cover po nung subpoena is only on the records. Apology po hindi po kung makatulong sa talong po ninyo but I'm able to answer that po at this point, Your Honor. 557 01:12:15,980 --> 01:12:25,860 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: No apologies necessary. But as head of the AMLAC Secretariat, would you say na cause for concern yung ganyang mga transaksyon under these circumstances? 558 01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:39,850 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I note po the... I have to... Review po yung binanggit niyo po. Hindi ko po napuha lahat po, Your Honor. But we'll take note naman po yung nabanggit po ninyo. 559 01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:43,040 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat, Atty. Buedavan Tuda. 560 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:43,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: It's alright po. 561 01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,040 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. 562 01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:45,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, 563 01:12:45,420 --> 01:12:53,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Tiveras. Senator Judge Bam Aquino, thereafter, Atty. Mayor Ropp, after Senator Judge Bam. 564 01:12:55,790 --> 01:12:57,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Senator Judge Bam. 565 01:12:57,910 --> 01:13:00,350 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry, Your Honor. May I be given more time, Your Honor? 566 01:13:01,740 --> 01:13:03,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's see after Senator Judge Ban. 567 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,840 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Actually, my first question is for Attorney May. Just a quick 568 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:08,360 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: question. 569 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:09,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then in that case... 570 01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:09,940 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Sorry. 571 01:13:11,220 --> 01:13:31,820 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay, so let me... First of all, thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Attorney May, nais ko lang malaman rin kung ano talaga yung nais nating maipakita dito sa witness na ito. So, after this witness, ang susunod yung mga bangko. Is that correct? And possibly today, right? 572 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:32,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 573 01:13:32,740 --> 01:13:48,060 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: And yung tanong na magkano ba talaga yung nasa bank account ni Vice President Sara at ni Atty. Carpio, yan ba ay masasagot ng next witness natin? Yan ang kanilang testimonya. 574 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I am unaware, Your Honor, as to the substance of the testimony of the subsequent witness. 575 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:53,460 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Pero yan ang tatanungin ninyo. 576 01:13:53,460 --> 01:14:02,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. And we will try to bridge and to tatahiin po yung mga testimonies ng mga witnesses. 577 01:14:02,230 --> 01:14:27,640 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay, exactly. So, kumbaga, meron tayong pieces of the puzzle ngayon. May magsasabi kung ano yung laman ng account. Itong si witness, si Atty. Buenaventura, tama ba, Atty. Buenaventura, what you can testify is that billion piso ang dumaan sa mga account nila. Yun ang, can you say that with certainty na bilyong piso ang dumaan sa mga account na sinopina sa araw na ito? 578 01:14:27,740 --> 01:14:47,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: based on our tabulation your honor there are billions at least as indicated po there are transactions that are billions po yung 4.4 po tsaka yung millions po dun sa other entities na indicated po so at least in so far transaction po yes 579 01:14:47,790 --> 01:14:50,730 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: okay labas-pasok yan diba labas-pasok 580 01:14:50,730 --> 01:14:52,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As reported po, Your Honor. 581 01:14:52,530 --> 01:15:01,650 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Sinagot mo kanina, sabi mo, hindi mo masasabi kung magkano yung nasa laman ng account at anytime pero alam mo na may perang labas-pasok at yung total niyan, billion. Tama ba? 582 01:15:02,250 --> 01:15:03,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, nagka-transaction po. 583 01:15:03,810 --> 01:15:04,250 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: You're 584 01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:05,210 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: certain about that? 585 01:15:05,210 --> 01:15:05,410 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 586 01:15:05,410 --> 01:15:05,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 587 01:15:05,550 --> 01:15:05,730 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: That is 588 01:15:05,730 --> 01:15:06,190 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: your report? 589 01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:07,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Based on our report, Your Honor. 590 01:15:07,990 --> 01:15:21,070 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Thank you. Sige, so itong labas-pasok yung billion, magkano yung laman, tapos eventually, I think BIR rin yung dadating dito, ano yung dineklara? Ano yung nasasalihan? Yan yung mga binubuo natin dito sa article na ito. 591 01:15:21,110 --> 01:15:40,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Long and short of it, Your Honor, among others, Your Honor, ipapakita namin na merong disproportion sa mga disclosures and with the figures appearing from the AMLC records, from the banks, also, Your Honor, ipapakita rin po namin na sa 592 01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:51,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: AMLC records, Your Honor, it's not even the entirety. of the supposed transactions. 593 01:15:53,810 --> 01:15:54,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Question. 594 01:15:55,830 --> 01:16:01,490 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yung AMLC report refers to covered persons. Pag sinasabi mong covered person, yan yung mga bangko. Tama ba? 595 01:16:01,490 --> 01:16:02,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tama po. 596 01:16:02,430 --> 01:16:08,590 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yung mga bangko kasama sa report na yan, yan rin ba yung mga pinatawag natin sa araw na ito ng mga bangko? 597 01:16:09,130 --> 01:16:09,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes po. 598 01:16:09,870 --> 01:16:13,390 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yes. So, konektado lahat ng mga testimonyang ito. Tama 599 01:16:13,390 --> 01:16:14,030 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: ba, Atty. May? 600 01:16:14,130 --> 01:16:14,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes po. 601 01:16:14,570 --> 01:16:17,930 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Sige. Question for Atty. Ronald. Thank you, Atty. May. Salamat. 602 01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:18,630 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Ronnie. 603 01:16:19,100 --> 01:16:30,160 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So yung mga banko magbibigay ng STR sa inyo and then kayo, based on those reports, na to be fair, sometimes galing nga sa dyaryo, itutuloy nyo yung investigation dyan. Tama ba? 604 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:46,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. Subject to prioritization po because we receive po millions po of STRs din. So, and limited din po yung capacity namin and yung resources po. So, we have to prioritize po yung mga pag-investiga po. And 605 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,580 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: eventually, pwede kayo magrekomenda ng kaso? 606 01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:50,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 607 01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:52,700 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Kanino kayo magrekomenda ng kaso? 608 01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:56,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, depende po doon sa kaso kung ang 609 01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:32,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung part pa po ng investigation at kailangan po namin ng additional information po, kadalasan po nagpa-file po kami ng bank inquiry, petition po sa court po, court of appeals, and then para ma-insure po na ma-preserve din yung pera, nagpa-file din po kami ng freeze order. Pero pag nabuo na po namin yung kaso po, case build up na po, nabuo na. Depende po kung ano yung level ng evidence namin kung kaya na po yung reasonable doubt, may file po money laundering criminal case complaint po. 610 01:17:32,490 --> 01:17:35,110 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: With DOJ? 611 01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:41,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: DOJ po or ombudsman kung pasok po sa jurisdiction po ng Sandiganbayan. 612 01:17:41,050 --> 01:17:41,230 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay, 613 01:17:41,250 --> 01:17:47,030 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: so just for my understanding, for this year, have you filed any cases against anybody this year? 614 01:17:47,530 --> 01:17:48,390 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 615 01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:48,910 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: You have? 616 01:17:48,910 --> 01:17:49,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 617 01:17:49,450 --> 01:17:53,770 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So, tuloy-tuloy. So, even without the impeachment case, tuloy-tuloy ang trabaho ng MLC? 618 01:17:53,930 --> 01:17:54,510 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 619 01:17:54,810 --> 01:17:59,410 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Could you give us a number? Mga ilan ng kasong na-file-an ninyo sa Ombudsman or sa DOJ? 620 01:17:59,950 --> 01:18:01,170 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Maybe last year or 621 01:18:01,170 --> 01:18:01,570 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: this year? 622 01:18:02,030 --> 01:18:10,650 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: May binilalabas po kaming mga annual report po, Your Honor. I think na-furnish po yung Senate but I can give you na lang po after if you need po. 623 01:18:10,670 --> 01:18:12,270 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: More than 10? More than 20? 624 01:18:12,530 --> 01:18:14,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Baka more or less po. More than. 625 01:18:14,690 --> 01:18:15,610 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Sige. 626 01:18:15,650 --> 01:18:27,380 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Final question. Nabanggit kanina ni Atty. Vin Luan yung Tapang at Malasakit Alliance. Kasama ba yun sa mga records natin na hiningi? Was that part of the records? 627 01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po. Wala po yun yun. 628 01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:35,170 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: But I never mentioned Tapang at Malasakit Alliance. 629 01:18:35,170 --> 01:18:35,530 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I don't think he 630 01:18:35,530 --> 01:18:40,630 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: mentioned that too. Well, somebody mentioned earlier na may perang pumasok. Wala ba? 631 01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:41,250 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Wala po. 632 01:18:41,930 --> 01:18:42,550 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: I'm sorry 633 01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:43,410 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Atty. Vin Luan. 634 01:18:44,410 --> 01:18:57,180 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: ED? Tapang at Malasakit Alliance, pinag-uusapan din. No, that was in your article in GMA News. It was referring to Tapang at Malasakit Alliance. Yung China denies giving money. That was Tapang at Malasakit Alliance. 635 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:16,880 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: That was from your slide. So the slide that was shown earlier, if I may finish, Presiding Officer, nakalagay China denies providing money and I think that is the donation to the Tapang at Malasakit. Tapang at Malasakit Alliance, 636 01:19:17,140 --> 01:19:27,120 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: if I'm not mistaken. Or anyway, nasa dyaryo na naman to. Kasama ba yung Tapang at Malasakit Alliance sa mga records na binigay niyo sa prosecution or sa korte? 637 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:31,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. Those are not included in the subpoena, Your Honor. 638 01:19:31,100 --> 01:19:31,600 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: May I 639 01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:38,480 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: ask the prosecution, is there any move to have these records also subpoenaed? 640 01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:57,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If I may, Senator Judge Van, Tapang at Malasakit is not A juridical entity, I believe, that may have an account or a policy covered by the MLC. Attorney Mark, you confirm it appeared in the article? 641 01:19:58,090 --> 01:20:04,590 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Just to clarify also, sorry, with all due respect, hindi rin po kasama dun sa Flinash namin article. Wala rin po. 642 01:20:04,590 --> 01:20:05,110 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay, 643 01:20:05,210 --> 01:20:10,850 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: maybe yung China denies providing money in another article, it referred to the tapang at malasakit. I have no 644 01:20:10,850 --> 01:20:23,460 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: personal knowledge. Thank you. So, ito na pag-uusapan na rin ito, Atty. May, na bring up na rin yung possible donations from China. Will there be any move to get the records of Tapang at Malasakit Alliance? 645 01:20:23,860 --> 01:20:25,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We are considering it, Your Honor. 646 01:20:25,380 --> 01:20:26,080 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Thank you, Mr. Presiding 647 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:26,520 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Officer. 648 01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:52,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Maraming salamat. Thank you, Sen. Judge Bah Makino. Next would be, we won't count that against the time of Atty. May because she was asked the questions. Sen. Judge Rafi Tulfo, misrecognized. I see your hand, Senator Judge Pangilinan, but Senator Judge Raffi is recognized. You may proceed when you're ready, sir. You have two minutes. 649 01:21:01,940 --> 01:21:25,110 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Mr. Witness, throughout the direct examination kahapon sa iyo, ang daming covert and suspicious transactions nabanggit. So, as Executive Director of AMLOC, would you know if your agency went to the Court of Appeals or CA ex parte? para humingi ng freeze order to investigate these possible acts of money laundering? 650 01:21:25,650 --> 01:21:30,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I'm unable to disclose po. If any, Your Honor. 651 01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:31,000 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: You did 652 01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:31,160 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: not. 653 01:21:31,340 --> 01:21:31,780 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay. 654 01:21:32,650 --> 01:21:49,090 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Sa mga na-flag nyo ng mga suspicious transactions, ano mga binigay ng Cale88 na justification? At hininga nyo ba sila ng kontrata or documents to give economic reasons for the deposits? 655 01:21:49,980 --> 01:22:06,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, yung sa amin po, pag nagre-report po yung covered person, it's just a report, so nagbabase lang po kami dun sa narrative nila. So tulad po nun, yung karamihan po, if I recall, let me check lang po yung records ko po, Your Honor. 656 01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:41,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung Cale88 po, Your Honor, halimbawa po yung covered transaction reports po na 178 po. Wala pong explanation po na hinihingi ang AMLC or ang AMLA po kasi po basta po pumasok po dun sa higit 500,000, required po silang report. So wala na pong explanation po yun. Yung pong may STR po na nabanggit dito, ang initial po na ginagawa po nila, in-identify po nila yung reason bakit po sila nagpa-file ng STR po. 657 01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:42,510 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Hindi, kaya nga babalik ka po 658 01:22:42,510 --> 01:22:57,280 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: dun sa unang katanungan. Well, dami na mga suspicious transactions. Paulit-ulit na lang. So wala kang ginawang aksyon para pumunta nga sa CA at i-investigahan to para i-tingnan kung mayroong money laundering activities to. 659 01:22:57,460 --> 01:23:11,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, for Cale88, tatlo po yung STRs. As present po, hindi ko po masabi, I'm able to disclose po if on the action further taken po on this, Your Honor. 660 01:23:11,260 --> 01:23:29,210 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Hindi pa ka-duda-duda na karamihan sa mga milyones na pondo na pumasok sa Cale88 ay galing sa mga bansang may critical na reputasyon sa money laundering, gaya halimbawa ng Russia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, South Africa? Hindi pa ka nag-duda doon? 661 01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:47,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, apologies po, I cannot make a conclusion. I have no personal knowledge on the current. status po of the other of the countries mentioned on the of their financial standing or money laundering standing in the international community po. 662 01:23:50,260 --> 01:23:54,320 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Siguro si Atty. May, meron po akong question. 663 01:23:58,000 --> 01:23:58,800 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Atty. May, 664 01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:07,700 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: kasi natanggal yung pangalan ni Atty. Man Scarpio sa list of shareholders, corporate officers back in 2025. 665 01:24:08,790 --> 01:24:09,250 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: It 666 01:24:09,250 --> 01:24:12,910 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: seems to me that he couldn't have benefited from all the alleged transactions. 667 01:24:13,610 --> 01:25:04,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We respectfully beg to disagree, Your Honor. First, as will be testified on by the BIR representative, Your Honor, there is nothing on record that will show, Your Honor, that there was a valid transfer because no capital gains tax, no payment of capital gains tax is reflected in the BIR records. That's one, Your Honor. And we find this, Your Honor, the supposed transfer of shares highly suspect, Your Honor, because again, aside from the fact that there's no record that capital gains tax was paid, even in the very own disclosure of the Vice President in 2025, she disclosed that Cale88 remains a business interest of her husband. 668 01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:24,120 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Hmm. Okay. Balik tayo dito kay Mr. Witness. Ang Cale88 na nakatanggap ng foreign currency deposit from China, according to records ito ah. Wala kang personal knowledge dito, records. Pinag-usapan natin. Dalama ba ng AMLC kung sino, anong korporasyon ang nagpadala dito? 669 01:25:26,020 --> 01:25:38,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Nakatagap po, Your Honor, ng remittance po, Your Honor. Yes po, alam po namin, based po dun sa records po. Yung iba po dun ay... As I recall po, pinabasa po sa akin yung nagpadala po, Your Honor. 670 01:25:38,340 --> 01:25:50,200 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Malalaman ba kung ito ay government company or government-owned companies or private people yung mga nagpadala ng pera? 671 01:25:51,400 --> 01:26:01,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, hindi po namin malalaman. Wala po. Hindi po namin, hindi po required sa report na indicate kung ano po yung nature or specific nature po ng company po, Your Honor. 672 01:26:01,700 --> 01:26:05,050 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Last na naman, Mr. Witness. Okay, last na naman po. 673 01:26:05,550 --> 01:26:08,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed. You may proceed, Senator Judge Raffi. 674 01:26:08,910 --> 01:26:09,230 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Thank 675 01:26:09,230 --> 01:26:12,350 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: you very much. Kasi pag nalik yung bell, medyo nalulundag ako eh. 676 01:26:14,050 --> 01:26:31,870 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Balikan po natin, Mr. Witness, ang mga foreign remittances na natanggap ng Cale88 galing sa China. Base sa mga CTRs at STRs na isinumiti sa hukumang ito, magkano pong natukoy po natin na nanggaling sa China o sa mga Chinese entities lahat? 677 01:26:32,590 --> 01:26:49,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As based on the records po, Your Honor, let me refer lang po to my notes po. The amount indicated po in our tabular summary is P319,326,770.41 sa tapos po, Your Honor. 678 01:26:49,310 --> 01:26:50,690 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Yan yung from China? 679 01:26:50,690 --> 01:26:50,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 680 01:26:50,970 --> 01:26:51,270 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 681 01:26:51,550 --> 01:26:54,950 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, sige. Yan muna po, Mr. President. Salamat po. 682 01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:55,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 683 01:26:55,290 --> 01:26:56,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Senator Judge Raffi. 684 01:26:59,050 --> 01:27:08,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: One more perhaps before we go to the redirect rather of Atty. May. Sen. Judge Sotto is recognized. 685 01:27:18,260 --> 01:27:21,120 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Thank you. Thank you Mr. Presiding Officer. 686 01:27:24,080 --> 01:28:02,350 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Atty. Ronel, minabanggit kanina eh and then this was mentioned in media about a so-called system glitch. Hindi ba ba? Connection to the BPI submitted list of 630 covered and 33 suspicious transactions in the account of Tony Carpio, total amount of 6.7 billion. And then sabi nila dito sa part of 6.7 billion, yung alleged 2 billion ay error or glitch. Diba? Ayaw nyo nang pag-usapan? Tama po ba yan? 687 01:28:02,630 --> 01:28:15,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po ma-verify po, Your Honor, yung ibang figures po. Pero based po doon sa nabanggit lang po kanina, Your Honor, na nagkaroon po ng request si BPI po, Your Honor, based on the records, ng correction po, Your Honor. 688 01:28:15,930 --> 01:28:21,150 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Ng correction. Yung 2 billion, naging 2 million. Hindi po ba? Ganun na lang nangyayari. 689 01:28:21,150 --> 01:28:21,390 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung 690 01:28:21,390 --> 01:28:26,270 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: pagkakaalala ko po, Your Honor, subject po doon sa mismong nakasulat sa records, Your Honor. 691 01:28:27,410 --> 01:28:32,450 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: So, sa inyo galing yung confirmation eh, di ba, BPI? 692 01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:39,040 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Nag-delete ng 13 erroneous covered transaction reports in this regard. 693 01:28:40,480 --> 01:29:05,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, as explained earlier po, to clarify din po, the BPI made the request po and then we acted on the request by validating and conducting the necessary audit po to... To confirm whether nagkaroon ba talaga ng error in the reporting po. And we found po that there is and we granted the request po, Your Honor. 694 01:29:05,550 --> 01:29:07,110 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: So you granted the request? 695 01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:07,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, 696 01:29:09,250 --> 01:29:09,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 697 01:29:09,990 --> 01:29:32,030 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Kasi sa tagal na panahon na meron akong account sa banko, iba-ibang banko, ni minsan di ko nakaranas na may kakilala man lang ako na naging bilyonis eh. Dahil sa back system glitch, 2 billion, tapos nangyayari ba talaga ito? 698 01:29:33,770 --> 01:29:41,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masabi, Your Honor, but we did receive a request on that regard from BPI, Your Honor. 699 01:29:41,970 --> 01:29:43,730 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Minsan lang yan. 700 01:29:43,730 --> 01:30:09,500 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: At least from my time po as Executive Director, as far as I recall, Your Honor, this is first. But we receive po on a regular po yung mga sometimes may nagkakamali lang po talaga ng report na, or isa dalawa po, and then they submit the request. We validate po. Sometimes we grant, sometimes po hindi po. Yes. 701 01:30:09,500 --> 01:30:13,460 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Would you know kung mga ilang accounts na nationwide ang nangyayaring ganito? 702 01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:16,960 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: At 703 01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:20,680 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: kung ano-ano mga bangko na naapektuhan ng ganito mga glitch? 704 01:30:21,100 --> 01:30:26,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ay hindi ko po maisip or masabi po ngayon po, Your Honor. 705 01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:39,590 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: For this alleged glitch na lang, ilang covered transaction reports ang sinasabing erroneous para makabuo na from 2 billion naging 2 million? 706 01:30:40,910 --> 01:30:48,310 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung tanda ko po, Your Honor, based subject po sa records na nabasa ko po kanina, 13, 13 po, Your Honor. 707 01:30:48,370 --> 01:30:51,110 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: 13, tama. Hindi niyong nakarating sa amin eh. 708 01:30:51,250 --> 01:30:51,890 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Ngayon 709 01:30:51,890 --> 01:30:58,770 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: ito, glitches na ito, nangyari sa total account balance, issuance ng manager's check. 710 01:31:09,220 --> 01:31:10,220 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: So 711 01:31:10,220 --> 01:31:15,040 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: paano nangyayari ang glitch sa issuance ng marriages check? 712 01:31:24,030 --> 01:31:41,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung glitch, Your Honor, hindi ko po masagot specifically but yung sa amin po is yung nai-report sa amin ay sabi po nila iba yung amount and then check po namin, validate po namin so makaiba po yung nakalagay so we corrected po accordingly po. 713 01:31:42,110 --> 01:31:56,340 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Tama ba na itong glitches na ito or glitch na ito nai-report lamang dito sa inyo sa AMLOC AMLC during the impeachment proceedings? Hindi ron ni-report ito dati nung araw? 714 01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:20,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung basic po sa binasa ko po kanina, if I recall po, we received the request po April 8, 2026 po, Your Honor. So I'm not sure po kung may impeachment proceedings na po at that time. Also for the record po, I assume po kasi April 14, 2026, Your Honor, as Executive Director. 715 01:32:20,590 --> 01:32:21,110 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Alright. 716 01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:29,280 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Just in case there's a second round, Mr. Presiding Officer, I'll ask the rest of my questions later. 717 01:32:29,580 --> 01:32:31,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will 718 01:32:31,420 --> 01:33:11,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: do so, Senator Judge Sotto. For the record, the Chair would like to correct itself. Tapang at Malasakit Alliance for the Philippines Incorporated is a registered foundation. It is registered with the SEC. and has a juridical personality that may be covered, if at all, either via bank deposits or insurance premiums or investments and the like. So the chair stands corrected in relation to that. 719 01:33:14,260 --> 01:33:18,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Senator Judge Villanueva is recognized. 720 01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:24,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For his interjections. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready. 721 01:33:25,620 --> 01:33:30,680 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Sir Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr. President. Good morning, kabayan. 722 01:33:31,220 --> 01:33:33,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good morning po, Senator, Honorable Judge. 723 01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:36,640 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Just 724 01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:50,980 Sen. Joel Villanueva: to be more precise, without totally ignoring the reports given to us, meron po bang separate report from 2022 onwards when the time na si VP Sarah assume office ang AMLAC? 725 01:33:52,800 --> 01:34:00,420 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor, that is Table 3 of the report, yung tabular summary, Your Honor. 726 01:34:00,620 --> 01:34:01,160 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yes, 727 01:34:01,180 --> 01:34:01,420 Sen. Joel Villanueva: so 728 01:34:01,420 --> 01:34:02,400 Sen. Joel Villanueva: nakaseparate siya, no? 729 01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:09,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo, all CTRs and STRs involving VP and Attorney Manassas Carpio, 2022 to 2025, Your Honor. 730 01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:09,660 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank 731 01:34:09,660 --> 01:34:25,090 Sen. Joel Villanueva: you for that. Making that separation, Mr. Witness, what would be the aggregate inflows, outflows, and undetermined transactions? attributable to the period beginning 2022. 732 01:34:26,460 --> 01:34:37,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Based on our tabular summary, Your Honor, it is 424,179,536 pesos, 0.10 centavos po, Your Honor. 733 01:34:38,100 --> 01:34:53,610 Sen. Joel Villanueva: At dito sa table 3, yung entire calendar years, nakalagay o, 171 CTRs, 49 STRs, and approximately 424 0.18 million combined reported transactions. Is that correct? 734 01:34:55,550 --> 01:34:59,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 424, 179, 536.10, Your Honor. 735 01:35:00,010 --> 01:35:43,640 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yes. And, Atty. Buenaventura, if you look at Table 2 and you talk about suspicious transactions, there is an interesting contrast in your summary. Yung GenCorp, nakalagay po dito, it reflects approximately 3 billion pesos in reported transactions. Pero, no STR. indicated in the table. Pero yung 888 bistro reflects a much smaller aggregate amounting to 43 million pesos pero merong 1,197 STRs. How should the court bilang isang husgado na itong nga exercises na ginagawa natin can properly understand that contrast? 736 01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:45,460 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, Your Honor, 737 01:35:47,190 --> 01:35:51,470 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Para po, honorable senator, just ipalawanag ko po. 738 01:35:53,510 --> 01:36:53,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung, based lang po dun sa lo po, yung kung mas marami man po na CTR ang isang entity po, ibig sabihin lang po nun, marami po siyang transaction na mahigit po dun sa threshold na 500,000. So, ibig sabihin din po, Kung wala pong na-file na STR, kahit po sobrang dami ng transaction, ang tingin po ng covered person ay regular or wala pong presence ng any of the suspicious circumstances po. So, kaya po ganun. So, ganun din po doon sa isa pong nabanggit po ninyo na meron pong 1,197 na STRs, hindi po porket maliit yung amount, ay hindi na po may STR kasi ang hinahanap po ay Hindi po yung amount kundi yung kung meron pong suspicion or suspicious circumstances. So maaari pong maliit na maliit po yung amount pero marami po silang nakikita na suspicious circumstances sa mga transactions. So ire-report po nila ng ire-report po paulit-ulit po yan. 739 01:36:54,040 --> 01:37:07,400 Sen. Joel Villanueva: I was listening attentively dun sa cross-examination and you made mention that neither the amount nor the number of STR standing alone. would be enough or a reliable measure for illegality, unexplained guilt, or wrongdoing. Is that correct? 740 01:37:07,660 --> 01:37:08,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yan. 741 01:37:08,420 --> 01:37:48,290 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And you also mentioned that it's not just the threshold. Pagka ito'y suspicious, it would fall under STRs. Kaya merong 1,197 STR. So kung ito ay you being a legal, I would say, bar top notcher, no? What would the court need to examine before attaching substantive significance to those 1,197 SDRs? The underlying transactions, the reporting reason or red flag the parties involved, and the eventual AMLC analysis? 742 01:37:50,620 --> 01:37:58,510 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, hindi ko po masagot. It's for the impeachment court to decide kung ano po yung Direction po na gusto nilang... 743 01:37:58,510 --> 01:37:58,950 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ulitin ko 744 01:37:58,950 --> 01:38:26,850 Sen. Joel Villanueva: lang po, Mr. Presiding Officer, kasi binanggit niyo po, it would not stand alone and you need further verification, investigation, so that it would fall under this wrongdoing, etc. Ganon din po kasi kami dito, itong korte, ang talagang tinitignan po namin, yung Article 2, yung unexplained wealth. So, ano po yung kailangan makita para mag-fall po doon? 745 01:38:28,270 --> 01:38:46,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I'm just relying lang po, Your Honor, dun po sa nabanggit nyo. Kung katulad po namin na we have to still conduct further investigation, then kung ganun po yung procedure po ninyo sa honorable court po na to, then I think that would also be kung ano po yung dapat nyo po gawin, Your Honor. 746 01:38:46,450 --> 01:38:46,770 Sen. Joel Villanueva: I would 747 01:38:46,770 --> 01:38:59,790 Sen. Joel Villanueva: just rephrase, no? Para lang makuha ko yung... Para nagkakaintindihan po tayo, when would be the time na you would recommend the filing of cases? Kasi sabi niyo nga po kanina, hindi mag-stand alone yung STR. 748 01:39:01,010 --> 01:39:14,170 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kami po, at least sa side po ng AMLC po, we file cases po if we think meron na po sufficient evidence to satisfy po or to overcome po yung... Yung requirement po sa court na quantum of proof po. 749 01:39:14,170 --> 01:39:14,630 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And what is 750 01:39:14,630 --> 01:39:15,870 Sen. Joel Villanueva: that evidence you're looking for? 751 01:39:16,050 --> 01:39:28,090 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung forfeit lang po civilly po, that is preponderance of evidence po. And then kung criminal case po, proof na yan, reasonable doubt. Pero kung as part of investigation po, probable cause lang po. 752 01:39:28,270 --> 01:39:40,210 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Give me a leeway, Mr. Presiding Officer. Patanong po kasi ni Sen. Lito Lapid dito. Yung pong Atty. Buenaventura, yung issue po dito kasi nga again is unexplained well. Hindi lang po basta malalaking 753 01:39:44,260 --> 01:40:06,340 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Meron po ba kayong maituturo na kahit isang transaction sa AMLC record na pwede po natin matrace hanggang sa isang specific asset na nakuha o na-retain ng respondent at makikita or allegedly hindi makikita sa kanya pong SALN? Meron po ba? 754 01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:13,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I apologize po. I cannot answer po. Ang masabi ko lang po kung ano po yung nasa records po. 755 01:40:13,460 --> 01:40:26,000 Sen. Joel Villanueva: At kung hindi po ito kayang gawin ng AMLC records alone, ang direct tracing na yun, ano po kayang ebidensya ang kailangan bago masabing meron pong unexplained wealth? 756 01:40:28,430 --> 01:40:57,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, with all due respect po, yung sa EMLC po kasi hindi po namin tinitignan kung may unexplained wealth or hindi. Ang tinitignan po namin kung may money laundering po or wala po or kung dapat po i-forfeit po or may probable cause po kung may money laundering. Yung apologies po, yung unexplained wealth po ay ito po yata is for the impeachment court to decide. So I don't want to put... Direction po sa court na not within my authority po, Your Honor. 757 01:40:57,150 --> 01:41:03,290 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you for clarifying that it means we really need to push harder and look for the evidence. Thank you, Mr. Witness. Thank you. 758 01:41:04,590 --> 01:41:08,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Villanueva. Attorney May, are you ready? 759 01:41:08,810 --> 01:41:09,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 760 01:41:09,950 --> 01:41:19,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you may proceed with your redirect. Attorney Mark is likewise recognized for the redirect of Attorney May. You may proceed when you're ready, ma'am. 761 01:41:20,460 --> 01:41:20,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 762 01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:37,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina po, on cross-examination, tinanong kayo ng pinanggalingan ng inward remittances to Cale88. Naalala niyo po ba yun? 763 01:41:37,140 --> 01:41:38,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun, Your Honor. 764 01:41:40,170 --> 01:42:03,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let me show you again several CTRs pertaining to those inward remittances that were reported to the MLC. Kindly refer to Exhibit P, Roman numeral number 2-7-23, pages 12a and 12b, 14th line. 765 01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:04,480 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your 766 01:42:04,480 --> 01:42:13,260 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Honor, objection. We never confronted the witness during cross-examination of these documents, so it is not the proper subject of redirect examination. 767 01:42:13,660 --> 01:42:30,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, but you made mention of them. counsel. Only that the actual copies were not available yet to you at that time. In fact, the chair already got the TSN and I can furnish you in a bit for your recross if any. The chair will allow it. Witness will please answer. 768 01:42:34,810 --> 01:42:38,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pages 12A and 12B, 14th line. 769 01:42:38,470 --> 01:42:38,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are 770 01:42:38,950 --> 01:42:41,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: these the same slides you showed, Attorney May? 771 01:42:42,190 --> 01:42:42,910 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 772 01:42:43,050 --> 01:42:53,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: During direct? Then it gives you an opportunity, Attorney Mark, to look at it as well for your recross because the documents were not available to you at that time. 773 01:42:54,860 --> 01:43:01,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Maaari niyo po bang basahin yung address ng transaksyon na nakareflect dyan sa CTR na yan? 774 01:43:10,340 --> 01:43:15,620 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, mayroon pong several addresses po na nakalagay. 775 01:43:18,170 --> 01:43:20,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Can you kindly read them for the record? 776 01:43:21,750 --> 01:43:36,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I-clarify ko lang po. Yung entry po dito is may address po. I think address po ng Cale88 may address po ng beneficiary pero blanco. May address po ng counterparty. 777 01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:37,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yung counterparty po. 778 01:43:38,670 --> 01:43:49,590 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ang nakalagay po dito ay counterparty address add.nanhanji, Innovation Industrial China. 779 01:43:50,920 --> 01:44:02,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, punta naman po tayo sa pages 12a and 12b, 15th line. Maaari niyo po ba rin basahin yung address ng counterparty na nakareflect dyan sa report na yan? 780 01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,660 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: LTDRM8621NO599, Huignag, RD, Chengxi, China. 781 01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:24,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pages 22a to 22b, last line. Ano po ba ang... 782 01:44:28,540 --> 01:44:30,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Address ng counterparty na naka-reflect dyan. 783 01:44:34,540 --> 01:44:45,420 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Nakalagay po ay enterprisesco.ltd8f5, Nong, Giannan, Lucy, and Beijing, Chaoyang 784 01:44:45,420 --> 01:44:55,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pages 23a to 23b, first line. Maaari niyo po bang basahin yung address ng counterparty na naka-reflect dyan. 785 01:44:58,440 --> 01:45:07,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: enterprisesco.ltd8 5, 5, Nong, Jan, Nanlu, CN, Beijing, Chaoyang. 786 01:45:08,210 --> 01:45:16,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And last, pages 17a to 17b, 13th line. Pakibasa rin po yung counterparty na nakasaad. 787 01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:17,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Anong 788 01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:25,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: line po? 789 01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:26,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 13th line po. 790 01:45:26,660 --> 01:45:27,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 13th line, yes. 791 01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:48,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wanda, Road, Bayuan, Street, Yiwo, Zhejiang, CHN. 792 01:45:50,410 --> 01:45:57,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa, kanina po, natanong din po kayo tungkol sa mga STRs relating to Cale88. 793 01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:59,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon 794 01:45:59,550 --> 01:46:14,690 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: punta naman po tayo sa Exhibit P-Roman numeral number 2-7-24B, page 2B. Maaari niyo po bang sabihin yung dahilan kung bakit nai-report as kahina-hinala yung transaksyon? 795 01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:19,200 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: I believe that was asked and answered already, Your Honor. 796 01:46:19,580 --> 01:46:23,680 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Not yet, Your Honor. This is, I'm on redirect, Your Honor. 797 01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:26,600 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yeah, but during direct, it was as an answer to review. 798 01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:28,620 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But this question's presented from the... 799 01:46:28,620 --> 01:46:31,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll allow it, Attorney Mark. 800 01:46:31,260 --> 01:46:34,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll allow it. We'll give you the same latitude and leeway on your recross. 801 01:46:35,260 --> 01:46:36,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer. 802 01:46:36,580 --> 01:46:40,580 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sorry, Your Honor, your question po, saang page po, tsaka anong line? 803 01:46:40,820 --> 01:46:41,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Page 2B. 804 01:46:41,860 --> 01:46:44,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Page 2B. Which one po? 805 01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:53,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: First three lines. Yung dahilan po kung bakit na-report as kahina-hinala. Yung transaction na covered ng STR na yan. 806 01:46:54,090 --> 01:47:16,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. Yung first line po, the reason indicated is there is no underlying legal or trade obligation, purpose, or economic justification. Yung second po, ang nalagay ay there is no underlying legal or trade obligation, purpose, or economic justification. Yung pangatlo po ay there is no underlying legal or trade obligation, purpose, or economic justification po, Your Honor. 807 01:47:16,750 --> 01:47:17,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 808 01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:26,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you. Kanina rin po, tinanong din po kayo base sa kaalaman nyo sa corporate law. Naalala niyo po ba yan? 809 01:47:26,790 --> 01:47:29,390 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo, sa limited na kaalaman ko po yan. 810 01:47:29,670 --> 01:47:47,740 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Based po sa knowledge nyo on corporate law, ano po ba ang minamandate sa mga korporasyon kapag yung unrestricted retained earnings nito ay nag-exceed ng 100% of its capital, paid up capital? 811 01:47:52,200 --> 01:48:05,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, and subject to what the law provides and to my limited knowledge po of corporate law, if there is 100% of the unrestricted retained earnings, they have to declare dividends po, Your Honor. 812 01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:06,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 813 01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:13,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: kapag ang korporasyon naman ay nagde-deklara ng dividends, sino po ang tumatanggap ng mga dividendo ng korporasyon? 814 01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:22,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: And Your Honor, subject to what the law actually provides and to my limited knowledge po of corporate law, It's the stockholders po, Your Honor. 815 01:48:22,370 --> 01:48:33,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At kapag ang korporasyon ay mayroong dalawa lamang na stockholders, sino po ang tatanggap ng mga dividendo na diniklara ng korporasyon? 816 01:48:33,670 --> 01:48:35,050 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Objection, Your Honor. Speculative. 817 01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:35,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 818 01:48:35,850 --> 01:48:44,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: do you mean by two stockholders, Attorney May? It's an OPC? It's an OPC with two registered stockholders? 819 01:48:45,330 --> 01:48:47,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Or, yeah. 820 01:48:48,150 --> 01:48:52,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Otherwise, it would be under the old law with five incorporators. 821 01:48:52,770 --> 01:48:54,490 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 822 01:48:54,490 --> 01:48:54,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If 823 01:48:54,930 --> 01:48:55,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: he 824 01:48:55,010 --> 01:48:55,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: knows. 825 01:48:57,290 --> 01:49:05,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Subject to what the law actually provides and to my limited knowledge, Your Honor, the two stockholders will receive the dividends, Your Honor. 826 01:49:05,890 --> 01:49:06,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: That would be all, Your Honor. 827 01:49:08,660 --> 01:49:13,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Attorney Mark, yes, any recourse? 828 01:49:14,020 --> 01:49:15,400 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Just a few questions. 829 01:49:15,400 --> 01:49:16,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, sir. 830 01:49:16,300 --> 01:49:24,960 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: You mentioned, thank you, Your Honor. You mentioned or you were asked to read three addresses of business entities based 831 01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:26,080 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: in China. 832 01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:27,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes. 833 01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:28,520 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yung kakabasa niyo lang po. 834 01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:28,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po. 835 01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:37,460 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: But based on AMLC records, again, just to reiterate, meron po ba kayong paraan para malaman kung legitimate o illegitimate itong mga businesses na ito? 836 01:49:37,970 --> 01:49:40,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po. Hindi po yung kasama sa naka-report. 837 01:49:40,110 --> 01:49:40,410 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. 838 01:49:40,510 --> 01:49:48,630 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We're also confronted with the phrase, no underlying legal or trade obligation. Tama po? Yung binasa niyo po, kakabasa niyo. 839 01:49:48,630 --> 01:49:48,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po. 840 01:49:48,930 --> 01:49:49,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. You're 841 01:49:49,550 --> 01:49:49,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: on. 842 01:49:49,750 --> 01:49:56,010 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: That is a direct lift from section, from the AMLA law, correct? 843 01:49:57,530 --> 01:50:02,270 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Definitions ng suspicious transactions, yung purpose number 1 sa B-1. 844 01:50:02,270 --> 01:50:03,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 845 01:50:03,230 --> 01:50:16,770 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: So, ibig sabihin, mismong batas ang sasabi, Na pag there is no underlying legal or trade obligation, purpose or economic justification, it is mandated to be reported as STR. Tama po? 846 01:50:16,770 --> 01:50:17,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 847 01:50:17,490 --> 01:50:33,030 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Alright. You were also asked about the two incorporators or stockholders and clarifying the presiding officer. Nangyayari yun pag may OPC. Tama? Meron dyan sa report nyo, meron bang OPC dyan kahit isa? 848 01:50:38,150 --> 01:51:05,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po with respect to my limited knowledge on corporation law and subject to what the law actually provides. As far as I recall po, the revised corporation code now permits stockholders even below number of five, yung OPC po kapag isa lang po. So I would say na kahit less than five po can now be allowed, Your Honor. But nonetheless po, to answer the question po, 849 01:51:07,940 --> 01:51:22,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Not to answer po. Hindi ko po ma-determine based doon sa CTR, sa names ng corporations sa CTRs or STRs kung sila po ay OPC or hindi po. 850 01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:26,340 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Pero di ba required yun na ilagay mo na OPC sa corporate team mo? 851 01:51:26,580 --> 01:51:27,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Argumentative, Your Honor. 852 01:51:27,580 --> 01:51:29,800 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Not just if he knows, Your Honor. Only if he knows. 853 01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:36,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As far as I recall, again, Your Honor, subject to what the law actually provides and to my limited knowledge of corporate 854 01:51:36,030 --> 01:51:37,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: law, yes, Your Honor. 855 01:51:37,430 --> 01:51:41,810 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Pero dun sa corporations na yun, wala naman nakalagay na OPC, tama? 856 01:51:44,790 --> 01:51:50,470 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yung, sorry, corporation po. Dun sa nakalista dun sa tabular summaries niyo po. Wala namang OPC dun, di ba? 857 01:51:50,470 --> 01:51:50,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa 858 01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:54,330 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: tabular summary po, hindi, wala po kaming, yung 859 01:51:56,470 --> 01:51:58,410 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: entities po ba, Your Honor? 860 01:51:58,410 --> 01:52:00,450 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Yung entities, yung corporations. 861 01:52:00,450 --> 01:52:02,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Let me verify lang po yung subpoena, Your Honor. 862 01:52:28,420 --> 01:52:33,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Based po sa supina po sa amin, Your Honor, wala pong nakalagay ng OPC. 863 01:52:33,260 --> 01:52:33,540 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Okay 864 01:52:33,540 --> 01:52:33,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po. 865 01:52:34,460 --> 01:52:44,400 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: You were also asked about unrestricted retained earnings. Meron po ba kayong personal knowledge ng unrestricted retained earnings ng kahit ano pong corporation na nakalista dyan? 866 01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:47,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po. Wala po kaming records, Your Honor. 867 01:52:47,100 --> 01:52:47,820 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: That would be all, Your Honor. 868 01:52:48,320 --> 01:53:12,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. We have 1, 2, 3, 4... 5, 6, 7 Senators, let's try to do it and see how far we can go without counting those for round 2 before we break for lunch and see if we can dispense with this witness before we break for lunch. Senator Judge Lacson is recognized for his intervention. 869 01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:17,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have 2 minutes sir, you may proceed when you're ready. 870 01:53:17,060 --> 01:53:19,900 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you Mr. President Officer. Good morning 871 01:53:19,900 --> 01:53:21,910 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Attorney. 872 01:53:21,910 --> 01:53:22,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good 873 01:53:22,430 --> 01:53:24,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: morning po, Honorable Senator. 874 01:53:24,450 --> 01:53:24,690 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Just for 875 01:53:24,690 --> 01:53:37,330 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: our education, on a monthly basis, on the average, how many covered and suspicious transaction receipts do you receive and analyze in 876 01:53:38,060 --> 01:53:38,760 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: a month? 877 01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:45,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I have no immediate figures. Estimate po, we receive, at 878 01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:51,460 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: least for last year po, we receive a total of about 200 879 01:53:54,720 --> 01:53:57,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 120 million, if I recall, Your Honor. In a 880 01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:04,420 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: year po, so that's about, kung average po, ang tanda ko po is about, siguro po, about 10 million po. 881 01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:04,820 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: That's why 882 01:54:04,820 --> 01:54:07,280 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: it's time-made kayo, diba, sa trabaho ninyo. 883 01:54:07,280 --> 01:54:07,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 884 01:54:07,740 --> 01:54:08,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 885 01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:27,200 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: And that's also the reason why, for this year, I remember this, because ang finance committee chairman o new senate president, we worked to augment your budget along that line. We gave you 162 million. 941,000. So, are you coping up? 886 01:54:28,320 --> 01:54:53,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Thank you po in the first place for your honor. Maraming po salamat for helping on that part. Yes po, we're trying to cope up po. But of course, yung based po dun sa nabigay po na budget, we allocated We're allocated po for the infrastructure and technology po. So, but that one po kasi syempre procurement and then we have to adjustment period po at this stage. But yes, we're trying to cope up na po on that one. 887 01:54:53,900 --> 01:55:04,060 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yeah, now I understand why you're having difficulty responding to questions either ng direct or sa cross. Kasi hindi mo maalala lahat, di ba? 888 01:55:04,060 --> 01:55:04,420 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama 889 01:55:04,420 --> 01:55:04,580 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po 890 01:55:04,580 --> 01:55:04,780 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yun. 891 01:55:04,780 --> 01:55:19,460 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: In fact, sabi nga ni Santolito, ang kapal nung papel na pinapakita sa iyo. Mahirap talaga hanapin. Anyway, next question. Is the AMLC capable of conducting criminal investigation in pursuit of prosecution? 892 01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:20,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your 893 01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:21,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor. 894 01:55:21,220 --> 01:55:32,400 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Or are you limited to financial investigation and evidence gathering to assist law enforcement agencies? Because money laundering is not a stand-alone crime or offense. 895 01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:42,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. We can conduct on our own. We can conduct together with the law enforcement. We can conduct parallel investigation, Your Honor. 896 01:55:42,900 --> 01:55:48,380 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: But you cannot conduct it alone. Kasi how can you investigate kidnap or ransom? 897 01:55:48,380 --> 01:55:49,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 898 01:55:49,860 --> 01:55:51,060 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: How can you conduct smuggling? 899 01:55:51,540 --> 01:55:53,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. So, 900 01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:55,520 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: mas financial investigation ang inyong participation? 901 01:55:56,220 --> 01:55:57,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun, Your Honor. 902 01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:11,070 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: So, I was just wondering when you were asked kung ilan na yung kasong naimbisigan at na-efile? So, mostly this is in collaboration with other law enforcement agencies or assisting them, ano? 903 01:56:11,190 --> 01:56:11,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 904 01:56:11,770 --> 01:56:12,930 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yung financial investigation. 905 01:56:12,930 --> 01:56:13,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 906 01:56:13,050 --> 01:56:24,400 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Okay, punta tayo doon sa political harassment. Natouch ito ni Atty. Bin Luan. Nare-record mo ba yung legislative intent nung Section 16, prohibitions against political harassment? 907 01:56:24,900 --> 01:56:26,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po, hindi po. 908 01:56:26,200 --> 01:57:27,820 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Okay, ako ayaw magsasabi because I was here in 2001 when we passed 9160. This amendment was introduced by the late Nene Pimentel, Senator Nene Pimentel, because at that time, we were in the opposition. So, ang intent nito, doon lang sa election period, na hindi makukover ng batas lahat ng kandidato. And I remember, and Senator Kiko will attest to this, payag agad si Senator Delate. Both are late. had already passed on. Sabi niya, agreed, because time would come, kami naman ang nasa opposition, yun ang intent, hindi yung harassment per se, or harassment in the general sense of the word. So, if we go back and review the transcript, doon lang limited yun, yung section 16, prohibitions against political harassment, that's along 909 01:57:30,260 --> 01:57:37,080 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yung harassment, along the line ng harassment during campaign period. Kindly review that. 910 01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:37,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo, 911 01:57:37,360 --> 01:57:40,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: salamat po. Thank you po for the enlightenment po, Your Honor. 912 01:57:40,380 --> 01:57:44,210 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Nakalagay doon eh. Sa second paragraph. 913 01:57:44,210 --> 01:57:48,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Last few words. You may finish up, 914 01:57:48,150 --> 01:57:49,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. At Sen. Judge Lacson. 915 01:57:49,770 --> 01:58:02,660 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: No case for money laundering may be filed against and no assets shall be frozen, attached, or forfeited to the prejudice of a candidate. for an electoral office during an election period. Yeah. 916 01:58:02,980 --> 01:58:04,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, Your Honor. 917 01:58:04,180 --> 01:58:25,720 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: So doon lang yun halos nakalimit, di ba? Kasi pagka, di ba, ako hindi ako bagado, pero alam ko, pag may konting vagueness, babalik tayo sa intent, di ba? So transcript. So hindi ito yung general sense na political harassment. I would just like to correct that, ano. Kasi doon nga yung nagkaroon ng issues si Senator Raffi na yung intimidation. 918 01:58:27,780 --> 01:58:32,800 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Harassment. I would just like to clarify that. Next round na lang ulit ako, Mr. President Officer. 919 01:58:33,100 --> 01:58:39,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, thank you very much, Senator Judge Lacson. The Senate President is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 920 01:58:40,640 --> 01:58:46,320 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you very much, Mr. President Officer. Magandang umaga, Atty. Bonaventura. 921 01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:47,300 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good morning po, Senate 922 01:58:47,300 --> 01:58:47,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: President. 923 01:58:48,220 --> 01:59:46,880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tinignan ko dito sa iyong report na merong pumasok 776 million sa Cali88 Foods. May inflow siya na 776 million. May outflow siya na 154 million. Ngayon, itong 776 million, ilang beses ko na binabalikan yung kanilang available na balance sheet. Hindi ko makita dito dahil ang kanilang paid up capital, yung kanilang capital dito ay 125,000 lang. Yung cumulative sales nila since 2021 is only 23 million. Ang assets nila 18 million. Ang liabilities is 20 million. So in your opinion, saan punta itong 776 million na pumasok? 924 01:59:48,150 --> 01:59:59,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies, Your Honor. I am unable to give my opinion. I can only testify on the records and the records will not indicate where it went except on what is stated. 925 02:00:02,620 --> 02:00:18,880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yung meron rin kanina na pag-usapan rin itong suspicious transactions at nasabi na merong, isa sa mga dahilan, there is no underlying legal or trade obligation purpose or economic justification. Anong ibig sabihin nito? 926 02:00:20,980 --> 02:00:23,220 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Nasa suspicious transaction ito na 927 02:00:23,220 --> 02:00:23,520 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kale. 928 02:00:24,270 --> 02:00:35,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I don't want to add po sana na interpretation po on that. It's what is indicated in the law po. There's no underlying legal trade obligation, purpose or economic justification. 929 02:00:35,710 --> 02:00:41,990 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Can you give an example? For example, kung may pumasok na pera, walang invoice o resibo, pasok ba siya dito? 930 02:00:45,780 --> 02:00:50,480 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: May pumasok na pera, pero wala namang mapakitang invoice, walang mapakitang resibo. 931 02:00:51,360 --> 02:01:00,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hypothetical. Hypothetical po, Your Honor. Maari po. But we have to consider all other factors po. Yung profile po niya, mga previous transaction po, Your Honor. 932 02:01:01,060 --> 02:01:08,300 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Meron pa isang dahilan. The amount involved is not commensurate with the business or financial capacity of the client. Anong ibig sabihin nito? 933 02:01:10,050 --> 02:01:17,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, yun po yung nakalagay doon sa law. So I don't want to add. Meaning po, on that... Kung 934 02:01:17,380 --> 02:01:29,380 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: meron, kung ang capital ay 125,000 tapos pumasok 776 million in sales or in cash, hindi natin alam kung sales or ano yun, pasok ba siya dito? 935 02:01:29,380 --> 02:01:31,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: If wala pong... 936 02:01:31,260 --> 02:01:36,980 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Is the capital commensurate to 125,000 commensurate to 776 million? 937 02:01:39,190 --> 02:01:41,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I can answer, Your Honor, 938 02:01:41,270 --> 02:01:45,830 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: but... Based on your analysis. Pasok ba siya dito sa dahilan na ito? Yun naman ang tanong ko. 939 02:01:47,930 --> 02:01:48,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi 940 02:01:49,290 --> 02:02:05,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: ko po makapagbigay, Your Honor, kasi I still have to check po yung nature talaga ng business entire. If based po dito sa juridical person po na ito, we have to conduct further investigation po if needed, Your Honor. Apologies po. 941 02:02:07,380 --> 02:02:27,140 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kasi kung hindi mahanap sa libro yung 776 million, candidate ba itong Cale88 for money laundering? In your expert opinion and in mga experience mo, dapat ma-reflect yan sa books, di ba? Eh hindi ma-reflect sa books. Isang candidate for money laundering? 942 02:02:27,700 --> 02:02:31,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yaron, we'll have to further investigate po if... On 943 02:02:31,040 --> 02:02:33,440 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: this example. 944 02:02:33,440 --> 02:02:33,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As 945 02:02:33,980 --> 02:02:35,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: starting point po, 946 02:02:38,960 --> 02:02:39,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Difficult. 947 02:02:39,440 --> 02:02:47,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: A starting point. A starting point, maaari po, maaari lang po. But I have to consider all other factors po. 948 02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:47,340 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero 949 02:02:47,340 --> 02:02:49,440 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: pwede siyang candidate for 950 02:02:49,440 --> 02:02:50,220 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: money laundering. 951 02:02:52,180 --> 02:02:54,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: We'll have to check po yung kung may predicate ka rin po. 952 02:02:54,740 --> 02:02:56,160 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero pwede siyang maging candidate. 953 02:02:56,160 --> 02:03:01,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung candidate lang po, yes. But we have to consider all other factors po. 954 02:03:01,180 --> 02:03:01,660 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ano 955 02:03:01,660 --> 02:03:04,420 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ang next step pag naging candidate na siya for money laundering? 956 02:03:04,790 --> 02:03:26,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In general, we have to determine kung ano po yung unlawful activity na maaaring pinanggalingan po ng pera or naging transaction po doon sa pera. So, hanapin po namin meron ba ito, ano yung involved ba ito sa kidnapping for ransom, involved ba ito sa drug trafficking. 957 02:03:27,990 --> 02:03:32,700 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Dito nyo natitignan yung source nung... Pero kung saan siya nanggaling? 958 02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:53,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo. Yung iba po kasi covered person po, they report na po. So may starting point po kami kung saan. Kung wala naman po, kami po yung magahanap po noon kung saan po namin, kung meron man po. Siyempre, hindi naman po namin ipipilit kung wala naman po talaga. So kung meron po, gagawin po namin yung trabaho po namin. 959 02:03:53,860 --> 02:03:54,100 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: But 960 02:03:54,100 --> 02:03:57,960 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: from your perspective, kailangan nyo malaman kung saan nanggaling yung pera? 961 02:03:58,170 --> 02:04:09,850 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po kasi requirement po yun for us under the law that the proceeds must come from illegal activity po. 962 02:04:09,850 --> 02:04:09,970 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So 963 02:04:09,970 --> 02:04:18,790 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: dito nyo na rin titignan kasi kalahati nung sales nila galing ng China, dito nyo na rin titignan whether itong entity sa China legitimate or not. 964 02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:24,480 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I cannot answer for this one, Your Honor. But in general lang po. In general po. In 965 02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:25,060 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: general lang. In 966 02:04:25,060 --> 02:04:33,500 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: general po. In the normal course of things, yes, it will be looked at. All factors po, Your Honor. 967 02:04:33,500 --> 02:04:35,060 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 968 02:04:35,060 --> 02:04:35,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 969 02:04:35,340 --> 02:04:39,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Mr. Senate President. Senator Judge Pangalino has recognized. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. You have 970 02:04:39,580 --> 02:04:39,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: two minutes. 971 02:04:41,670 --> 02:04:50,910 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. A few questions for Attorney Divina Gracia. Just to Refresher memories. 972 02:04:52,430 --> 02:05:05,010 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Tama na yung SEC witness the other time, the other day, testified as to Cale88, the GIS, tama? Do you recall that? 973 02:05:05,110 --> 02:05:05,790 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, yes sir. 974 02:05:06,030 --> 02:05:15,790 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And that in the GIS, the Man Scarpio had 40%, will you recall that? 975 02:05:16,050 --> 02:05:17,990 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 47.5%, po. 976 02:05:18,090 --> 02:05:18,830 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: In what year? 977 02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:27,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2021 until 2024. In 2025 po, wala na po yung pangalan niya, napalitan na ito ng isang company, Pikimong. 978 02:05:28,920 --> 02:06:10,800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, and that's why I think maybe the question is, given the latest information that we have obtained from the AMLA, should we now, well, I don't know, I will leave that up to the court to decide. also look into Pikimon because Man Scarpio was president from 2021 to 2024 40% umangat ng 47% sa Kale88 tapos noong 2025 wala na siya. Saka if I recall we were not able to 979 02:06:13,960 --> 02:06:18,760 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Secure the audited financial statements of Cale88, is that correct? 980 02:06:19,180 --> 02:06:23,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Wala po silang finial sa SEC. 981 02:06:23,120 --> 02:06:24,240 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: That was also testified 982 02:06:24,240 --> 02:06:24,860 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: too, no? 983 02:06:25,100 --> 02:06:25,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, 984 02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:26,040 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: yes. 985 02:06:26,260 --> 02:06:34,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero meron po silang inattach na audited financial statements sa naka-attach annual returns po nila sa BIR. 986 02:06:35,580 --> 02:06:46,580 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, so that will be presented, I assume, sa BIR. Pero wala silang audit. Would that be regular, yung failure to file audited financial statements? 987 02:06:46,980 --> 02:06:51,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hindi po. In fact, meron pong penalty for non-filing of financial statements. 988 02:06:51,640 --> 02:06:59,580 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So he testified, tama ba yan? The SEC testified na walang audited financial statements. 989 02:06:59,580 --> 02:06:59,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: For 990 02:06:59,780 --> 02:07:01,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2024 and 2025 po. 991 02:07:01,940 --> 02:07:02,320 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At 992 02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:18,960 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: the time when the... Tama ba dinoong Buenaventura na yung 2024, 2025, Cale88 transactions na gumagaling China was 2024 and 2025? 993 02:07:19,940 --> 02:07:20,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, 994 02:07:22,860 --> 02:07:30,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I cannot, based on the table, Your Honor, I cannot say, Your Honor, but our tabulation po kasi is from 995 02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:40,780 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 2007 to 2025 for specific for Cale88 po. Yung isa po is 2022 to 2025, Your Honor. 996 02:07:40,880 --> 02:07:43,360 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, yes, 2022 to 2025. 997 02:07:43,360 --> 02:07:43,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes 998 02:07:43,720 --> 02:07:45,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po, yes po. So, 999 02:07:45,940 --> 02:07:52,280 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: could you break that down? Ano ang pumasok from 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025? 1000 02:07:52,840 --> 02:08:05,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, there is no breakdown po in the, we were not able to prepare a breakdown on that. For specific country, but specific years po, but meron pong yung aggregate lang po yung meron na. 1001 02:08:05,450 --> 02:08:05,650 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, 1002 02:08:05,650 --> 02:08:10,210 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: from 2022 to 2025, dun pumasok yung 319 million, tama ba? 1003 02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:13,620 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama po yun sa pumasok. 1004 02:08:13,660 --> 02:08:17,020 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, but from that period, 2022 to 2025? 1005 02:08:21,700 --> 02:08:22,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung 1006 02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:27,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: remittance po, Your Honor. 1007 02:08:27,560 --> 02:08:28,620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes. 1008 02:08:28,620 --> 02:08:55,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung table 5 po, your honor, did not indicate po yung year po. Ang meron po kami na indicate na year ay yung CTRs, STRs transactions po noong table 4 po, 2022 to 2025. Doon po, yung Cale88 po, ang total aggregated amount po niya is 10 transactions po, 1,254,736. 1009 02:08:58,570 --> 02:09:03,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 1,254,736,297.08 1010 02:09:03,150 --> 02:09:04,190 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So from 1011 02:09:04,190 --> 02:09:06,710 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: the period 2022 to 2025? 1012 02:09:06,710 --> 02:09:07,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 1013 02:09:07,430 --> 02:09:08,670 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, go ahead. 1014 02:09:08,970 --> 02:09:17,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: If I may, Your Honor, it's safe to assume that, Your Honor, because Cale88 was only incorporated in September 2001. 1015 02:09:18,390 --> 02:09:18,990 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. 1016 02:09:20,280 --> 02:09:54,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry, 2021. September 2021. And also, Your Honor, if I may just clarify, Your Honor, yung sa Piki Mong po na nabanggit kanina, it is our humble submission, Your Honor, that there was no valid transfer. Tulad nga po nang sinabi ko, there was no valid transfer because there is no record of any e-car documenting the transfer from Attorney Man Scorpio to Piki Mong. And also, Your Honor, even in the 2025 SALN, of the Vice President, she still disclosed Cale88 as among the business interests. 1017 02:09:54,820 --> 02:09:55,540 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: In 2020? 1018 02:09:56,040 --> 02:10:01,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2025, December 31, 2025, SALN. 1019 02:10:01,460 --> 02:10:23,850 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. So, just to put it all together, KL88 was incorporated in 2021. From the period of 2022 to 2025, The AMLA records are saying there was transactions amounting to 1 point how many billion? 1020 02:10:24,350 --> 02:10:32,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 1,254,736,297.08 based on record. Tabular summary. 1021 02:10:32,790 --> 02:10:33,150 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And 1022 02:10:33,150 --> 02:10:49,770 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: in 2022 to 2024 from 40% stockholder owners Si Man Scarpio naging 47% by 2024. But then in 2025, wala na siya. 1023 02:10:49,990 --> 02:10:51,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Wala po sa GIS. 1024 02:10:51,470 --> 02:10:51,790 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Wala na 1025 02:10:51,790 --> 02:10:54,450 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: siya sa GIS at pikimong-pikimong na. 1026 02:10:54,610 --> 02:10:55,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pikimong-pikimong. 1027 02:10:56,030 --> 02:10:58,410 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Okay. So, okay. 1028 02:11:00,010 --> 02:11:11,550 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Maraming mga interesting na maaari nating tanungin sa SEC and then sa BIR. Thank you. No further questions. 1029 02:11:11,710 --> 02:11:12,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. 1030 02:11:14,630 --> 02:11:15,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 1031 02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:20,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is 1032 02:11:20,180 --> 02:11:36,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the pleasure of the senator judges? We have Senators Erwin Tulfo, Padilla for round one. Thereafter, Senators Pia Cayetano, Sotto, Ontiveros, and Lacson for round two. May dagdag ba? 1033 02:11:38,610 --> 02:11:39,770 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Pwede ako naman sinabi ko. 1034 02:11:42,750 --> 02:11:43,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, okay. 1035 02:11:45,530 --> 02:11:46,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, we pause for lunch? 1036 02:11:48,870 --> 02:11:51,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nakatayo ka na dyan, walang time magagawa. 1037 02:11:51,390 --> 02:11:51,890 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kaya 1038 02:11:51,890 --> 02:11:53,450 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: inunahan ko na, presiding 1039 02:11:53,450 --> 02:11:54,010 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: officer. 1040 02:11:54,010 --> 02:11:57,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mukhang ayaw mo pa nga eh. Senator Judge Erwin is recognized. 1041 02:11:59,150 --> 02:11:59,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And 1042 02:11:59,650 --> 02:12:08,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: let's finish with Senator Judge Padilla. It's okay with Senator. So we finish with round one. Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo, you may proceed when you're ready, sir. 1043 02:12:08,710 --> 02:12:18,690 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Maraming salamat po, ginawang presiding officer, ginawang testigo. Ano ba ang AMLAC? At para saan po ito itinatag? Anong trabaho ng AMLOC? 1044 02:12:19,530 --> 02:12:50,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, Your Honor, yung AMLOC po ay nakreate po pursuan po sa batas po, Republic Act No. 960 or Anti-Money Laundering Act. Ang base po sa mandato niya under Section 2 ng law, under law po, ang nakalagi po doon ay to ensure that the Philippines shall not be used as money laundering site. for proceeds of unlawful activity. So kasama na rin po dito yung to ensure the integrity of the Philippine financial system po. 1045 02:12:50,450 --> 02:12:50,730 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright, 1046 02:12:51,130 --> 02:13:06,090 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: para sa kalaman po ng karamihan ng mga kababayan natin, ang ibig po ba sabihin ng money laundering, nililinis ang maruming pera, nilalabhan ang perang madumi, kung saan nanggaling ito kapag ipinasok sa lehitimong negosyo? 1047 02:13:07,760 --> 02:13:14,420 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ay, mawawala na ang trail na galing ito sa marumi. Tama po ba ganun explanation po ng money laundering, sir? 1048 02:13:14,700 --> 02:13:16,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. Tama po. Tama po. 1049 02:13:16,860 --> 02:13:20,240 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Gaano po kahirap matuntun ang pinanggalingan ng maruming pera? 1050 02:13:22,100 --> 02:13:43,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Mahirap po, Your Honor, kasi we have to establish po yung... Financial trail po, hanapin po namin yung unlawful activity, kung ano po yung illegal na activity po na ginawa, hanapin po namin yung proceeds, hanapin po namin yung saan po trinansak at saan po dinala po, Your Honor. 1051 02:13:43,800 --> 02:13:43,980 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: May 1052 02:13:43,980 --> 02:13:49,800 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: pagkakataon ba attorney na hindi natutuntun o matrace ang source ng pera kapag nalinis na po? 1053 02:13:52,460 --> 02:13:57,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Maari po, pero maari pa rin po matuntun, mahirap lang po, pero... 1054 02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:01,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Mandato po namin na gawin po yun, na hanapin po. 1055 02:14:01,860 --> 02:14:13,920 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Dito niyo ba ginagamit ang inyong CIF funds na 9 point something million, napakalait po? Sapat po ba yun para matuntun at habulin po mga drug lord, mga smuggler, etc., etc. sa ating bayan? 1056 02:14:17,330 --> 02:14:26,630 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung totoo po, maliit po yun kumpara dun sa mandato po na nakaatang po sa amin. Iyon po ay personal ko lang po na opinion, Your Honor. 1057 02:14:26,970 --> 02:14:30,050 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Take note, Finance Chair J.B. Hersito. 1058 02:14:31,890 --> 02:14:38,270 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sir, maaaring ipaliwanag mabilisan lamang ang proseso na dinadaanan ng AMLOC matapos makakuha ng STR? 1059 02:14:39,390 --> 02:15:29,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, pag nakakuha po kami ng STR po, tulad po nung nabanggit ko kanina, sobrang dami po kasi may natatanggap, we will prioritize po yung mga STR. So, meron po kami tinitignan ng mga, kumbaga, high risk crimes po na Iwanahin po namin. And then mula po doon i-analyze po namin yung report. And then base po doon sa initial na analysis po, financial intelligence na report po, ibibigay po namin yun doon sa aming investigation po. Yung investigation group naman po, sila na po yung lalabas talaga. Kakausap po ng mga other law enforcement kung may kailangan po kaming information. Kukolekta po, punta po doon sa lugar, sa negosyo po mismo, titignan kung legitimate ba. So sila na po yung bubuo ng kwento. Kung kailangan pa po namin ng information po sa bangko, doon po 1060 02:15:29,160 --> 02:16:00,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: mapafile po kami ng... bank inquiry po. Kung kailangan po namin, kung tingin namin na baka maalerto yung criminal po or yung money launderer po, magpo-file po kami ng freeze order. Kasi po, pag nag-imbestiga kami, siyempre, necessarily po, we have to ask, baka mamaya makarating po sa kanila. So, magpo-file po kami ng freeze order. Pag nabuo na po namin yung kwento, or yung case, kaso po, maari din po na ipa-file po namin yun. So, kung abot na po dun sa beyond reasonable doubt, criminal case, or kung hindi po, civil case lang po. 1061 02:16:18,590 --> 02:16:19,570 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sir, 1062 02:16:19,570 --> 02:16:26,390 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: marami po kayong pinakita mga dokumento, mga bank accounts ng prosecution. 1063 02:16:27,900 --> 02:16:37,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kahapon at kanina. May nakikita ka bang discrepancy sa mga transactions ng mag-asawang Carpio at Duterte sa kanilang mga bangko since 2007? 1064 02:16:39,390 --> 02:16:47,850 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, what I can only report po is yung pong nasopina po sa amin and yun lang po yung nailagay din po sa record. 1065 02:16:47,850 --> 02:16:49,130 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kaya nga po may nakikita 1066 02:16:49,130 --> 02:16:50,070 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: po kay discrepancy. 1067 02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:07,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So okay, 1068 02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:30,180 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: bilang abogado po, may conflict of interest ka ba nakikita na ang VP, kumpanya ni VP or corporations, nakikipag-transaction sa isang foreign state owned by a foreign state owner? company like China. Bilang abogado, sir. Do you see any conflict of interest here? 1069 02:17:31,990 --> 02:17:36,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I'm... Hindi ko po masagot, Your Honor. 1070 02:17:38,220 --> 02:17:42,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masagot on that one, Your Honor. 1071 02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:43,200 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: I understand, 1072 02:17:43,320 --> 02:17:55,610 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: sir. You want to play safe. But anyway, may nakikita ka bang mali sa pagtanggap na remittance ng Cale88? na isa sa mga company po na inuugnay kay VP Sara ng 319 million mula sa China at Hong Kong. 1073 02:17:56,720 --> 02:18:19,500 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So tulad nga po na sabi ko po kung ano lang po yung nasa records, Your Honor. So kung if and when na kailangan po namin gawin, titignan pa po namin kasi yung ano po ba yung legitimate yung mga transactions po, may documents po diba? So at this point po hindi ko po masasabi your honor based lang po sa record sir. 1074 02:18:19,580 --> 02:18:24,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright sir. Yung mga bangko I'm sure nire-report po sa inyo yung mga kahina-hinalang mga transaction. Tama po? 1075 02:18:24,980 --> 02:18:26,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun. 1076 02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:26,520 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. 1077 02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:40,480 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: May ginagawa ba kayong sarili investigation pag inireport na po sa inyo? Itong government official na ito may problema tayo, I'm locked. Can you do something about it? Or hinahayaan nyo lang? Or dahil mataas na official medyo may ikang special privilege? 1078 02:18:41,780 --> 02:19:07,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, nagbabase lang po kami sa dokumento po at sa mga report at sa transaction po. So kapag na-report po sa amin, subject lang po doon sa prioritization po namin, na-analyze po namin and then nagpa-file po kami ng kaso. Hindi po namin tinitignan kung... Kung yun ba ay mataas na tao or maliit na tao, basta po nakita po namin na may kaso na maaaring ma-file, nagpa-file po kami. 1079 02:19:07,820 --> 02:19:08,120 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: In 1080 02:19:08,120 --> 02:19:15,860 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: this case po kay VP Sara, wala po kayo nakikita? Mali? At hindi po ninyo inimbestigahan? Ngayon nyo lang lalaman ng pinatawag na po kayo ng 1081 02:19:15,860 --> 02:19:16,220 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: prosecution? 1082 02:19:16,680 --> 02:19:24,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I am unable to answer that except that part of the document subpoenaed po and we submitted po ay 1083 02:19:25,740 --> 02:19:36,540 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: If I read lang po, summary report on VP Duterte po, financial intelligence report on VP Duterte, financial investigation report on Attorney Carpio, and confidential information sharing, Your Honor. 1084 02:19:36,640 --> 02:19:43,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Before you came here, did you review those documents that they were asking you? Did you have the opportunity to review and look at it? 1085 02:19:44,060 --> 02:19:45,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your Honor. 1086 02:19:45,420 --> 02:19:54,000 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: And what do you see? What do you see, Attorney, when you saw those documents? You see nothing wrong, sir? 1087 02:19:59,560 --> 02:20:11,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I am unable to provide po my own interpretation po on this. But based on the documents po, there are... Ito po ang nalagay po. 1088 02:20:11,100 --> 02:20:11,420 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: That's what I was 1089 02:20:11,420 --> 02:20:11,960 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: asking you. 1090 02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:12,180 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Do you 1091 02:20:12,180 --> 02:20:12,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: see any 1092 02:20:12,780 --> 02:20:15,820 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: discrepancies, any problems, Mr. Witness? 1093 02:20:17,830 --> 02:20:27,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, all I can say po is there are... intelligence report and investigation report already conducted on as indicated. 1094 02:20:27,190 --> 02:20:27,630 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So did you 1095 02:20:27,630 --> 02:20:29,350 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: conduct any investigation already? 1096 02:20:32,900 --> 02:20:41,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I can only testify that we submitted as part of the subpoena the financial intelligence report and financial investigation report. 1097 02:20:41,740 --> 02:20:42,160 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: No further 1098 02:20:42,160 --> 02:20:42,600 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: questions, 1099 02:20:42,860 --> 02:20:43,660 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Mr. Presiding 1100 02:20:43,660 --> 02:20:44,020 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Officer. 1101 02:20:44,100 --> 02:20:44,340 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank 1102 02:20:44,340 --> 02:20:45,140 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: you, Mr. Witness. 1103 02:20:45,140 --> 02:20:45,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 1104 02:20:45,320 --> 02:20:49,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Senator Judge Rubin. Senator Judge Robin Padilla is recognized. You have two minutes so you may proceed when you're ready. 1105 02:20:50,730 --> 02:20:52,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thereafter, we break for lunch. 1106 02:20:52,500 --> 02:20:55,480 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Maraming salamat po. Ginuong hukom. 1107 02:20:57,600 --> 02:20:59,620 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Bismillah. Magandang tanghali po. 1108 02:21:00,510 --> 02:21:02,990 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magandang tanghali po, Honorable Senator Judge. 1109 02:21:02,990 --> 02:21:04,470 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kayo po'y taga Bulacan? 1110 02:21:04,470 --> 02:21:05,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun, Your Honor. 1111 02:21:05,710 --> 02:21:05,930 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Saan po 1112 02:21:05,930 --> 02:21:06,850 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: kayo sa Bulacan? 1113 02:21:07,290 --> 02:21:09,070 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa Malolos po, Your Honor. 1114 02:21:09,430 --> 02:21:12,850 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Malolos. Napakagandang lugar po niyan. Diyan po'y unang republika. 1115 02:21:13,610 --> 02:21:14,510 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, Your Honor. 1116 02:21:14,670 --> 02:21:30,870 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ako po'y tiga Plaridel. Ang tatay ko po ay diyan pinanganak. At ang lolo ko po'y dating gobernador. ng Bulacan, kaya malapit po ako sa mga taga Bulacan. Opo, kayo po ay bar, top notch, tama po ba? 1117 02:21:31,930 --> 02:21:32,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yan. 1118 02:21:33,790 --> 02:21:36,650 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, pwede po kayong maging teacher ko. 1119 02:21:37,740 --> 02:21:41,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay na po kung may 1120 02:21:41,180 --> 02:21:41,880 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: tanong 1121 02:21:41,880 --> 02:21:43,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po kayo na masasagot ko po. 1122 02:21:43,340 --> 02:22:02,590 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, tungkol po dito doon sa Anti-Money Laundering Act. Kasi doon po sa Section 8A. Pwede po bang maipaliwanag niyo sa akin? Kasi dito ang sabi, information, security, and confidentiality. Ano pong pagkakaintindi niyo dito aming kabayan? 1123 02:22:04,090 --> 02:22:18,310 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, I can only state what the law provides po. Yung security, yung mga nabanggit po ninyo. I don't want to add any other words that may be different 1124 02:22:18,310 --> 02:22:20,410 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: from my interpretation, 1125 02:22:20,690 --> 02:22:21,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 1126 02:22:21,290 --> 02:22:28,250 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, tama po bang sabihin natin na dapat ay may absolute confidentiality ng mga records? 1127 02:22:31,460 --> 02:22:42,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung nakalagay po dyan is parang hindi naman po records sa pagkakatanda ko po. Ang nakalagay lang po is mga information received po by the AMLC po. 1128 02:22:43,260 --> 02:22:43,760 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo. 1129 02:23:11,730 --> 02:23:37,270 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Confidential. Yung pong probable cause po alimbawa po, we need to show to the court po na meron pong probable cause o may probable and reasonable doubt. And we can only do that kung yung information po na nakuha namin ay gagamitin namin ay didisclose namin sa court. So kaya po hindi ko po masabi na absolute po kasi meron nga pong second paragraph that would authorize us to process and submit necessary information po. May 1130 02:23:37,270 --> 02:23:38,700 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: tamang proseso. 1131 02:23:38,700 --> 02:23:42,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po, in accordance din po sa guidelines po namin. 1132 02:23:42,100 --> 02:23:45,100 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Dapat ay yung alinsunod sa batas. 1133 02:23:45,240 --> 02:23:48,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Batas at implementing rules in mga guidelines po. 1134 02:23:49,020 --> 02:23:49,200 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Due 1135 02:23:49,200 --> 02:23:50,160 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: process. 1136 02:23:50,160 --> 02:23:51,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun, Your Honor. 1137 02:23:51,400 --> 02:23:57,610 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo. Sa palagay po ba ninyo, hindi kayo naipit dito? Sa pagpunta po nyo dito? 1138 02:23:58,410 --> 02:24:01,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po, Your Honor, because ako po ay sumunod sa... 1139 02:24:26,680 --> 02:24:27,240 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Sa 1140 02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:31,480 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: experience ko po dito, laging nagbibigay ng suggestion. 1141 02:24:33,040 --> 02:24:40,420 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: yung mga agency sa amin. Sa palagay niyo po ba may dapat tayong amendahan sa batas ng AMLAC patungkol sa confidentiality? 1142 02:24:44,120 --> 02:24:53,260 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: May sasuggest niyo po ba sa amin na amendahan nito para hindi po kayo parang niluluto dyan sa loob? Katulad kahapon. 1143 02:24:53,640 --> 02:25:10,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ano naman po, ginagawa ko lang po yung trabaho ko, Your Honor. Pero salamat po. Your Honor, nahitay ko na rin po yung opportunity. Meron po kasi yung mga pending AMLA bills po. So, ito po kasi ay requirement po sa international community. Pero to connect lang po dun sa tanong nyo po. 1144 02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:11,820 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Meron po 1145 02:25:11,820 --> 02:25:17,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: kaming provision po dun na of course yung confidentiality extend din po dun sa mga tao that we 1146 02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:17,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: are... 1147 02:25:17,240 --> 02:25:19,080 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: So sumasang-ayon po kayo? 1148 02:25:19,080 --> 02:25:20,300 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Meron po. 1149 02:25:20,300 --> 02:25:21,740 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ako naman po. Ako po 1150 02:25:21,740 --> 02:25:49,340 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: ay hindi abogado, pero ako po ay criminology graduate. Doon naman po ako bumabagsak sa law enforcement. Opo, kasi sa amin, merong apat na bagay. Una, inquiry, investigation, evaluation, then conclusion. Kayo po sa AMLC, nasa na po kayo doon? Nag-inquiry? Parang tapos na po kayo kasi sinasabi nyo kanina. 1151 02:25:51,310 --> 02:25:52,830 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Okay, second round na lang po. 1152 02:25:52,890 --> 02:25:55,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may wind up your question. 1153 02:25:55,130 --> 02:25:57,150 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ah, pwede po. Salamat po. 1154 02:25:59,310 --> 02:26:06,860 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kasi po, narinig ko kanina, nandun na kayo sa investigation. Tama po ba? Natapos po ba yung investigation? 1155 02:26:06,860 --> 02:26:08,580 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masagot, Your Honor. 1156 02:26:08,580 --> 02:26:08,940 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: O ano 1157 02:26:08,940 --> 02:26:12,020 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: lang po yung nasa records po, na nasabit po na? 1158 02:26:12,040 --> 02:26:22,470 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, kasi na malinaw kanina, parang nasabi niyo po, nasa point pa lang ng investigation. Kasi kanina parang nabasa niyo po doon investigation? 1159 02:26:22,470 --> 02:26:22,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Nung 1160 02:26:22,550 --> 02:26:33,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: sinopina po kami yung as of the time of the supina po sa amin ng court, eto po yung mga records na naka-include po in relation po doon sa STRs at CTRs po. 1161 02:26:33,910 --> 02:26:33,990 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: So 1162 02:26:33,990 --> 02:26:45,810 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: investigation po? Wala pa po kayo sa evaluation and conclusion? Kasi parang ang alam ko po sa AMLC, pagka meron na kayong conclusion, pwede nyo nang i-freeze yung assets, di ba po? 1163 02:26:46,730 --> 02:26:57,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masagot, Your Honor, any other action po na wala po or hindi po namin na-submit or wala po dito. Hindi po po ma-testify po, Your Honor. Hindi 1164 02:26:57,490 --> 02:26:59,610 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: ko 1165 02:26:59,610 --> 02:27:05,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po ma-disclose po, Your Honor, hindi po siya kasama dun sa kung ano po yung nandito po. Pero 1166 02:27:05,290 --> 02:27:10,270 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: andyan po, investigation. Nabasa ko kanina, narinig ko, sinabi niyo, investigation eh. 1167 02:27:10,270 --> 02:27:11,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Oo po, yung mga documents po. 1168 02:27:11,790 --> 02:27:15,190 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Nasa pangalawa pa lang, wala pang evaluation, wala pang conclusion. 1169 02:27:37,850 --> 02:27:42,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly clarify, you cannot divulge. Hindi mo pwedeng ilahat. 1170 02:27:42,940 --> 02:27:43,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo. 1171 02:27:43,340 --> 02:27:44,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung meron o wala. 1172 02:27:44,600 --> 02:27:44,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo. 1173 02:27:44,920 --> 02:27:47,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kasi hindi yun sa clown ng sinapina. 1174 02:27:47,160 --> 02:28:26,460 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po yun sa clown ng supina at meron din po mga rules po na hindi po namin na nagbabawalan po kami i-disclose po. Alimbawa po yung nabanggit ko po kahapon yung bank inquiry rules ng Court of Appeals. Pag po nag-file po kami ng bank inquiry rules, bank inquiry po sa Court of Appeals, may nakalagay po na provision doon na we cannot disclose it. If we disclose it, that would constitute Contempt of Court. So yung may mga ganun po na legal impediment or maharang sa akin legally to disclose po. So we cannot disclose po. Una po, ito lang po yung na-include po sa supina. Then mayroon po mga rules, laws, other rules po that we consider po. 1175 02:28:26,740 --> 02:28:34,320 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ang tanong ko lang po, simple lang kabayan, yung po bang hawak yung papel ay ano po yan ba? Ano po yung nasupina sa inyo? 1176 02:28:34,500 --> 02:28:36,840 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ang sinupina po sa amin, Your Honor, 1177 02:28:40,510 --> 02:28:46,650 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kanina may nabasa po kayo parang investigation yung sinagit niyo kay Senator Erwin Tulfo? 1178 02:28:46,930 --> 02:28:47,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your 1179 02:28:47,870 --> 02:28:51,210 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor. What we submitted po are... 1180 02:28:53,100 --> 02:29:04,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Covered transaction reports, suspicious transaction reports on VP Duterte at Atty. Carpio, summary report on VP Duterte with a barcode, financial intelligence report on VP Duterte 1181 02:29:04,260 --> 02:29:04,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: with 1182 02:29:04,560 --> 02:29:09,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: AMLC reference, financial investigation report at Atty. Carpio, and confidential information sharing, Your Honor. 1183 02:29:10,000 --> 02:29:16,960 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Okay po. Hanggang doon na lang po yung sinasabi niyo. Bali, ang tanong ko lang po kasi, sumusunod po ba kayo doon sa apat? 1184 02:29:19,070 --> 02:29:41,800 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Inquiry? Investigation? Evaluation and conclusion. Yun lang naman po. Wala naman po kung ibang tinatanong. Kung sumusunod po, hindi po... Kasi lahat po, lahat ng klase ng law enforcement, sa buong mundo, yun po ang dinadaana. Inquiry, investigation, conclusion, evaluation and conclusion. Yun lang naman po. 1185 02:29:43,260 --> 02:29:48,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Proceso po kami, maari pong kahawig po nun pero hindi ko po alam exactly kung ano po yun. 1186 02:29:48,260 --> 02:29:50,420 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Okay na po, kahawig na po yun. 1187 02:29:50,420 --> 02:29:52,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Maari pong kahawig nung ano po. 1188 02:29:52,340 --> 02:29:58,200 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Sa ano na lang po, ito parang manifestation na lang po itong akin na ginoon po po. 1189 02:30:00,700 --> 02:30:34,060 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo, sana po maasabi lang po dun sa ating mga kasama na tutal hindi naman po nabanggit dito yung tungkol sa tapang at malasakit. Hinihingi ko po na huwag naman po kaming madamay lahat kasi kasama kami dyan eh. Hindi naman po yan nabanggit dito sa Korte, binanggit po yan ni former Senator Trillanes sa hindi sa Korting ito. So, hinihingi ko lang po sa mga kasama ko na pagka generalize po natin yan na tapang at malasakit, kasama po kami dyan. Wala po ako natanggap na pera kahit nasihin ko sa mga in-check. Yun lamang po. Maraming salamat po. 1190 02:30:59,090 --> 02:31:01,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair declares our lunch recess. 1191 03:38:23,890 --> 03:38:30,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Ronel, naunawaan po ninyo na patuloy kayo magbibigyan ng inyong testimonya base sa naunan niyo pong pinanumpaan kahapon. 1192 03:38:31,350 --> 03:38:32,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Naunawaan po, Your Honor. 1193 03:38:32,550 --> 03:38:33,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kunti na lang 1194 03:38:33,030 --> 03:38:55,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ito tulad ng sinabi ko kanina, Atty. Ronel. We are on the second round of interjections by Senator Judges. While we are awaiting, apologies, I'm sound present. While we are waiting, Senator Pia Cayetano, if she will avail of the second round, Chair would like to recognize Senator Judge Sotto. 1195 03:38:57,780 --> 03:38:58,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 1196 03:38:58,220 --> 03:39:00,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may proceed, sir, when you're ready. You have two minutes. 1197 03:39:08,530 --> 03:39:21,000 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, but I will probably no longer avail of the second round. Some of the questions that I wanted to ask were asked by my colleagues earlier. Perhaps just a... 1198 03:39:25,710 --> 03:39:29,570 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Sabihin hindi ako. Baka sabihin hindi ako impartial. 1199 03:39:32,200 --> 03:39:35,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Sotto. Or I don't know if I should say thank you. 1200 03:39:37,550 --> 03:39:44,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thanks from Attorney Ronel. It shortens his time on the witness stand. Senator Judge Hontiveros is next. 1201 03:39:45,880 --> 03:39:47,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. 1202 03:39:50,420 --> 03:39:52,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Oh nga pala, Ronel, kumain ka na. Kumain ka. 1203 03:39:52,740 --> 03:39:55,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi uli. Kumagat lang pong SkyFlakes. 1204 03:39:56,730 --> 03:39:57,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 1205 03:39:57,740 --> 03:40:02,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Basta nagagahan ka kanina. Senator Judge Risa, you may proceed when you're ready. 1206 03:40:02,760 --> 03:40:04,400 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1207 03:40:05,910 --> 03:40:08,650 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Atty. Buenaventura. 1208 03:40:08,650 --> 03:40:09,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes 1209 03:40:09,190 --> 03:40:10,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po, Your Honor, Senator Judge. 1210 03:40:10,970 --> 03:40:11,830 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Magandang hapon po. 1211 03:40:11,950 --> 03:40:12,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magandang hapon po. 1212 03:40:13,170 --> 03:40:24,090 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Tama po ba na yung essence nga ng money laundering ay precisely gusto pong itago ang pinanggalingan ng maruming pera? 1213 03:40:25,540 --> 03:40:26,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, Your Honor. 1214 03:40:27,030 --> 03:40:29,350 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Kaya po tawag po natin dun ay paglalaba. 1215 03:40:30,300 --> 03:40:37,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In Tagalog po, sa pagkaintindi ko po, your honor. 1216 03:40:37,440 --> 03:40:38,280 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So 1217 03:40:38,760 --> 03:40:58,570 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: yung 319 million pesos na remittances mula sa China ay yung lamang pong inireport sa AMLC. Ibig sabihin, pwede bang mas malaki pa ang pinadalang pera mula sa China sa mga kumpanya? Tama po ba yun? 1218 03:41:00,640 --> 03:41:06,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, hindi ko po masabi pero ang nakita lang po namin ay kung ano lang po nasa records, Your Honor. 1219 03:41:10,210 --> 03:41:16,210 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Kung ano yung nasa records dahil yun ang mga iniulat sa inyo bilang either suspicious or covered transaction records. 1220 03:41:16,210 --> 03:41:20,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung meron pa man po na wala doon, hindi po namin makikita po yun, Your Honor. 1221 03:41:20,890 --> 03:41:35,750 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. Tapos, well, ito pong 319 million pesos mula sa China. Doon sa ang AMLC reports, hindi po naman yun yung paulit-ulit na pag-rollover ng time deposits, di po ba? 1222 03:41:37,300 --> 03:42:11,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung nasa table 5 po namin, hindi po siya time deposit po, Your Honor. Ito po ay base po doon sa letter ng prosecution asking for the inward remittances po. So, nung hinahanap, nung ginawa po namin yung tabular summary po, Tinignan po namin kung anong code yung pertaining to inward remittances. At yung po yung ginamit po namin dito, Your Honor. So hindi po siya at unique transaction po siya. So magkakaiba po ito. Hindi po siya yung rollover po. 1223 03:42:11,920 --> 03:42:19,720 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So magkakaiba po. Unique at hindi pare-pareho yung sinasabing rollover ng time deposits at yung namang masasabing remittances. 1224 03:42:20,020 --> 03:42:25,480 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As far as in our records. As we understood it, Your Honor, yes po. As 1225 03:42:25,480 --> 03:42:26,860 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: you understand your records. 1226 03:42:26,860 --> 03:42:27,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo. 1227 03:42:27,220 --> 03:42:37,560 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Eh yung, yung milyones po na di umano'y galing kay Samuel Uy, hindi rin naman po yun rollover ng mga time deposits, tama po ba? 1228 03:42:38,460 --> 03:42:42,960 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, apologies po, I can't specifically recall po yun. 1229 03:42:44,540 --> 03:42:47,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: On that one po, Your Honor. 1230 03:42:48,240 --> 03:42:48,620 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. 1231 03:42:50,610 --> 03:43:08,850 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Then, Nabanggit din po na may ilang suspicious transaction reports na di umano may connection sa drug trafficking. Ayon sa reports nyo, sino-sino pong mga tao di umano ang involved sa mga reported transactions na yon? 1232 03:43:09,650 --> 03:43:15,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, apologies po, hindi ko po maalala unless I'll be confronted with the record. Apologies po. 1233 03:43:15,750 --> 03:43:26,860 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. So, hindi nyo rin po masasagot kung itanong ko na Magkano, di umano, ang transactions na may reports na related sa illegal drugs? 1234 03:43:27,560 --> 03:43:31,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala lang po ako, wala po sa akin yung record, Your Honor. Hindi ko po masagot on the spot, Your Honor. 1235 03:43:32,160 --> 03:43:37,200 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright, pero kung mapasakamay ninyo yung records, masasagot po nyo dito? 1236 03:43:37,440 --> 03:43:37,460 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ay, kung 1237 03:43:37,460 --> 03:43:41,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: hanapin lang po at maituro po, mababanggit ko po. Ah, 1238 03:43:41,380 --> 03:43:44,760 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: kaya nyo po bang hanapin during this trial day? 1239 03:43:46,640 --> 03:43:55,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung yun po yung mga pinabasa po na hindi ko po maalala ko ng defense or ng prosecution po at maituturo lang po ulit yun base po dun sa kung anong pinabasa ko. Kung ma 1240 03:43:55,440 --> 03:44:02,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: -pinpoint naman po, masasabi ko naman po. Based on records lang din po. 1241 03:44:02,170 --> 03:44:28,150 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat, Atty. Buenaventura. Siguro, Mr. President, bago matapos itong trial day, baka pwede pong ipakita ulit sa witness yung record na yon para lang ma-on the record magkano di umano yung transactions na may reports kaugnay ng illegal drugs. Ulitin ko na lang po bago ako matapos, Atty. Buenaventura. So, ano pong mga aksyon kung mayroon na ang ginawa ng AMLC tungkol sa mga reports na yon? 1242 03:44:30,400 --> 03:44:45,160 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, hindi ko po maalala kung ano pong reports po lahat yun. Pero ang meron po kami at yun lang pong nasako po nung supina po natin na sinabit po, yung po mga financial intelligence report at financial investigation report po that we submitted po, Your Honor. 1243 03:44:45,460 --> 03:44:52,040 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. And hindi nyo lang makonfirm sa amin kung itong mga reports ay bunga ng mga investigasyon ng council. 1244 03:44:52,480 --> 03:44:55,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po ma-divulge po o bunyag po, Your Honor. 1245 03:44:55,840 --> 03:45:06,270 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. May nabanggit din pong suspicious transaction reports na posibleng related sa graft and corruption. Magkano naman po di umano yung iyon? 1246 03:45:06,510 --> 03:45:15,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa parehong kadahilanan po, Your Honor, unless makonfront po ulit ako nung document po so that I can answer that po, Your Honor. Pasensya na po. 1247 03:45:15,970 --> 03:45:22,890 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: It's alright po. Tulad nung halaga di umano ng reports related sa illegal drugs. Apo. Okay po. And then... 1248 03:45:24,940 --> 03:45:54,430 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Siguro huling tanong na sa ngayon. Yung halaga po pinagsama ng covered transaction reports at saka yung suspicious transaction reports kina VP Duterte at Atty. Carpio. Yun lamang po yung mga diumanong kaduda-duda o sakop sa cloud na ni-report sa AMLC. Hindi po yung kompletong record ng kanilang buong financial activity, inflows and outflows. Tama po ba? 1249 03:45:55,030 --> 03:46:06,250 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, yung po na-report sa amin, yung covert transaction at saspecious transaction po. Kung meron nun po na hindi pa pasok doon sa dalawang uri ng transaction po, hindi po yun maire-report sa amin po. 1250 03:46:06,450 --> 03:46:29,510 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Right. And then, approaching that question from another angle, just winding up, Mr. Presiding Officer, kung meron namang pong gustong umiwas sa AMLC o sa pansin ng AMLC, pwede pong ibabasa 500,000 pesos ang halaga ng transaction, di po ba? Para hindi nga po mapansin ng AMLC. 1251 03:46:30,490 --> 03:46:31,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Para hindi po ma-report? 1252 03:46:31,890 --> 03:46:32,490 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Para hindi ma 1253 03:46:32,490 --> 03:46:33,550 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: -report ng covered transactions. 1254 03:46:33,550 --> 03:47:12,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun, Your Honor. Kasi po hindi po siya sasaklaw dun sa covered transaction report. Kaya lang po, meron din po isang circumstance po sa suspicious transaction report na kapag na based po dun sa over... circumstances po, it appears na the client is trying to structure his transaction so as not to be reported, subject of the reporting under the law, matitreat naman po siya. Hindi po as covered transaction, kundi po suspicious po. So pero, yun nga po, subject din po yung sa checking din po ng covered person po. So makikita pa rin po, nare-report naman din po yun. 1255 03:47:13,030 --> 03:47:39,640 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. So kahit pa po maiwas sa pansin ng AMLC or ng covered person bilang covered transaction report. Kung may mapansin pong circumstance na parang sinusubukang i-structure yung transactions, pwede pa rin pong masakop ng isang suspicious transaction report. Alright. Marami salamat po muli, Atty. Buenaventura. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1256 03:47:39,640 --> 03:47:39,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 1257 03:47:39,960 --> 03:47:44,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Sen. Judge Rison Tivero. Sen. Judge Raffy Tulfo is recognized. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. 1258 03:47:51,050 --> 03:48:00,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Raffy, we shall have Senator Judge Lacson, thereafter Pangilinan, thereafter Villanueva, thereafter the Senate President, then finally Senator Judge Padilla. 1259 03:48:16,450 --> 03:48:29,150 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, ulitin ko yung tanong kanina. Hindi masyadong naging klaro sa akin at maybe sa inyo. Kailan kayo gumagawa ng investigasyon once na nalaman nyo na yung isang account ay may suspicious transaction? 1260 03:48:31,270 --> 03:48:47,110 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ano naman po yun, Your Honor? So, pag na-report po sa amin, meron lang po kaming prioritization po, given nga po na maliit lang po yung ahensya at yung resources po. So, namimili po kami base po dun sa mga kung ano po yung ipaprioritize na investigahan po. 1261 03:48:47,230 --> 03:48:49,430 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Hindi mention maliliit. Paano kung malalaki? 1262 03:48:51,660 --> 03:48:56,660 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: accounts at malalaki ang transaksyon na perang lamabas-pasok. So, what do you do? 1263 03:48:56,880 --> 03:49:13,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama pa rin po yun sa prioritization po. Hindi naman po porket maliit or malaki yung pera. Yun lang po yung basihan namin. So, halimbawa po, if the crime po ay halimbawa ay terrorism financing, so, mas priority po namin yung kahit po mas maliit ng content dahil may national security concern po. 1264 03:49:14,060 --> 03:49:16,720 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kaya nga, what do you do? What kind of investigation do you conduct? 1265 03:49:17,380 --> 03:49:38,020 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: After po noon, so, we analyze po the transactions po. and then at least dun sa initial transaction na analysis po kung meron po kaming makita na medyo that parang kailangan investigahan pa po ng mas detalyado i-endorse na po namin yun. sa kabilang grupo na mag-i-investigate na po talaga. 1266 03:49:38,040 --> 03:49:39,120 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: At ano yung kabilang grupo? 1267 03:49:39,500 --> 03:49:42,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa internal unit lang po yun sa AMLC. 1268 03:49:42,140 --> 03:49:42,940 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kaya nga, and then anong 1269 03:49:42,940 --> 03:49:43,800 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: ginagawa ng internal unit? 1270 03:49:44,020 --> 03:50:18,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung unit po na yun, sila po yung nag-conduct po ng full-blown investigation na po. Sila po yung kung kailangan po nilang kumuha pa ng mga detalye sa halimbawa po sa SEC, ng mga corporation. ng mga stockholders po kung kailangan po kumuha ng may ari-arian ba to sa land registration authority. Kung kailangan po mag-coordinate sa law enforcement kasi po kung nakita po na may predicate yung unlawful activity po ay halimbawa po kidnapping for ransom so we coordinate po with PNP po. So kasama na po yun doon. Bubuhin na po yung kaso po. 1271 03:50:18,820 --> 03:50:19,240 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, 1272 03:50:19,260 --> 03:50:22,640 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: pag nagawa yun lahat na na nabanggit mo, anong sunod na course of action? 1273 03:50:22,900 --> 03:50:31,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ang gagawin po namin pag nagawa na po yun lahat, Kung kulang pa rin po at kailangan pong pa-open yung particular na banko po. 1274 03:50:31,200 --> 03:50:32,240 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kung hindi na kulang, nagawa 1275 03:50:32,240 --> 03:50:33,140 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: na po lahat. 1276 03:50:33,140 --> 03:51:08,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magpo-file na po kami ng tatlong senaryo po. Una... Pari pong depende po sa ebidensya at sapat na po para merong proof beyond reasonable doubt na tingin namin, pa-file po ng criminal na kaso po. Yung pangalawa po is kung hindi po sapat yun pero pasok po doon sa preponderance of evidence na tingin namin kasampas sa court, yung kaso lang po ay civil, po-forfeit lang po yung proceeds. Yung pangatlo po is... Kung base po doon sa nakalap na ebidensya, wala po talagang kulang po. 1277 03:51:08,370 --> 03:51:09,890 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Hindi, pag may nakalap na ebidensya. 1278 03:51:09,890 --> 03:51:10,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ah, pag meron lang po. 1279 03:51:10,550 --> 03:51:11,330 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Yun dalawa lang po. 1280 03:51:11,330 --> 03:51:12,030 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yun dalawa po. 1281 03:51:12,030 --> 03:51:12,350 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Hindi 1282 03:51:12,350 --> 03:51:15,610 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: niyo, hindi kayo puputusin para mag-file ng freeze order? 1283 03:51:15,810 --> 03:51:17,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ay, part po yun ng investigation. 1284 03:51:17,970 --> 03:51:18,230 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, 1285 03:51:18,310 --> 03:51:42,290 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: sa kaso dito sa... Mga accounts ni VP Sara at sa mga kumpanya kung saan nagmamayari itong si Atty. Hans Carpio. And paulit-ulit na nangyayari itong STR. At I'm sure nag-investigate kayo. So wala man lang naging nagbunga sa ginawa niyo mga pag-imbestiga? Or you just sat down there at dahil natakot kayo sapagkat nasa pwesto yung mga taong yun at that time? Kung ordinary na tao pa siguro baka ipit na yan left and right. 1286 03:51:42,750 --> 03:52:02,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, Your Honor, yung mababangit ko lang po is yung pong naging saklaw po nung supina po, meron po kaming mga sinabit ng mga report po on this one po. Kung ano man po yung iba pa pong aksyon, hindi ko na po ma-divulge po or masabi po sa kadahilanan nga po na if meron man po, may mga other... 1287 03:52:02,290 --> 03:52:02,790 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: No, why 1288 03:52:02,790 --> 03:52:27,810 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: can you not? Samantal pag sa ordinary mga depositor, may mga... Orin na rin ang tao na may bank account na meron kayo suspicious sa transaction na nakita. E pinapadali nyo natin ng sulat and there are times na pinupunta nyo pa. I don't know. Tell me. Pero pag dito mukhang wala kayong ginagawa. Puro at saka very evasive ka sa mga sagot. Policy lang itong tinatanong ko, Mr. Witness. Walang tinatanong tungkol sa talagang anong nangyari sa ginawa niya. 1289 03:52:29,270 --> 03:52:39,410 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In policy lang, yun nga po Your Honor, yung pong may mga halimbawa po nag-file po kami sa Court of Appeals for bank inquiry po, may nakalagay po kasi sa rules nila. 1290 03:52:39,410 --> 03:52:42,010 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So, ginawa nyo ba ito? 1291 03:52:42,010 --> 03:52:43,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama po doon na 1292 03:52:43,010 --> 03:52:43,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: we 1293 03:52:43,290 --> 03:52:50,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: cannot disclose anything po halimbawa po kung nag-file man po kami or hindi po. Otherwise, constitutes contempt of court po kasi yun, Your Honor. 1294 03:52:50,330 --> 03:52:52,490 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, so hindi mo masasabi pwede nag-file ka o hindi? 1295 03:52:52,490 --> 03:52:52,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi 1296 03:52:52,750 --> 03:52:56,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: ko po ma-evolgar po kung meron man po or masabi po. Tama po yun, Your Honor. 1297 03:52:57,030 --> 03:53:06,570 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Pero, Alam naman natin lahat na napakarami ng STR o marami naka-invest na naka-plug down itong account nito for several years. So hindi ko pa rin masabi kung meron ba kayong pinahal o wala. Tama? Mali? 1298 03:53:06,570 --> 03:53:06,710 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi 1299 03:53:06,710 --> 03:53:10,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: ko lang po masabi. May divulge po, Your Honor. 1300 03:53:10,550 --> 03:53:19,470 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Meron bang ginawang paliwanag ng Cale88 tungkol sa mga STR sa mga accounts nila? 1301 03:53:21,160 --> 03:53:37,930 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sal... Your Honor, pag po... Yung covered person po, pag nagre-report po nung transaction, hindi naman po nila ini-inform yung, bawal po nilang inform actually po yung client nila na ni-reportan sila ng covered or suspicious transaction. 1302 03:53:40,040 --> 03:54:04,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kapag po finailan po ng or papailan po ng STR po or CTR yung client po ng isang covered person, nasa batas po ng AMLA na bawal po silang i-inform or na o ipapailan namin kayo kasi kumbaga tawag po doon tipping off, bawal po silang matip off na papailan na kayo na or finailan sila ng STR or CTR. 1303 03:54:04,140 --> 03:54:09,240 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Pero meron ba insidente na pinapatay nyo ng sulat ang isang accounts o account holder na may mga 1304 03:54:12,220 --> 03:54:13,020 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Transaction suspicious? 1305 03:54:14,540 --> 03:54:15,400 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Your contact? 1306 03:54:15,400 --> 03:54:34,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa AMLC po. Sa amin po, hindi na po. Kung meron po kami, sa procedure lang po ito, Your Honor. Sa amin po, kung meron man po na mapapadala kami, hindi na po sa amin. Ibig sabihin po, court na po yun. Kung baga nag-file na po kami, may makareceive na po sila ng court order or kung ano man po. 1307 03:54:35,360 --> 03:54:44,000 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, Mr. Witness, base sa summary na ibinigay ng AMLC, nasa 1.254 billion ano ang kabuhang transaction involving Cale88, tama? 1308 03:54:45,870 --> 03:54:47,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Check-in lang po, Your Honor. Apologies. 1309 03:54:49,660 --> 03:54:54,100 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 1.254736297.08, Your Honor. 1310 03:54:54,420 --> 03:54:54,760 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Billion. 1311 03:54:55,200 --> 03:54:55,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Billion, yes. 1312 03:54:56,060 --> 03:55:05,820 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, out of this 1.2 billion, 776.6 million yung kabuhang halaga na pumasok sa Cale88, tama? 1313 03:55:06,200 --> 03:55:06,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung inflow po, 1314 03:55:07,080 --> 03:55:11,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: yes po, 776,643,950.36, your honor. 1315 03:55:11,500 --> 03:55:25,500 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Correct. So, kung iba bang ito sa mga submitted audited financial statements ng Cale88 kung saan diniklala itong lugi daw ito mula 2022 haga 2024, right? 1316 03:55:26,310 --> 03:55:27,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po akong personal 1317 03:55:27,530 --> 03:55:27,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: knowledge. 1318 03:55:27,970 --> 03:55:28,210 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Sige. 1319 03:55:28,430 --> 03:55:28,990 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: At 1320 03:55:28,990 --> 03:55:31,350 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: in fact, itong 2025 lamang, ito ay 1321 03:55:31,350 --> 03:55:37,850 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: kumita raw ng halagang 375,398 lamang. So maybe you don't have that record. 1322 03:55:37,850 --> 03:55:38,730 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po. 1323 03:55:38,730 --> 03:55:50,990 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Now, mukhang napakalaki ng disparity ng pumasok na pera sa kumpanya tsaka sa kubuhang kinita nito kada taon. So hindi nagkakabanggaan. 1324 03:55:50,990 --> 03:55:53,510 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Again, wala po akong personal manager. 1325 03:55:53,510 --> 03:55:56,950 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, ang tanong ko na, last na lang, Mr. Presiding Officer. Yung bell, medyo... 1326 03:55:56,950 --> 03:55:58,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may continue 1327 03:55:58,150 --> 03:56:00,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and wind up, Senator Judge Raffy. 1328 03:56:00,150 --> 03:56:06,790 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Yes, sir. So, kinukonsidera din ba ng AMLA ang mga financial statements ng mga kumpanya sa inyong mga pag-imbestiga? 1329 03:56:07,090 --> 03:56:10,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As long as we're able to get po and available po, yes po. 1330 03:56:10,990 --> 03:56:14,150 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Witness. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1331 03:56:14,150 --> 03:56:14,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 1332 03:56:14,550 --> 03:56:20,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Senator Judge Raffy. Senator Judge Lacson, you may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready. 1333 03:56:20,100 --> 03:56:20,540 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank 1334 03:56:20,540 --> 03:56:20,700 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: you, 1335 03:56:20,720 --> 03:56:20,900 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Mr. 1336 03:56:21,380 --> 03:56:25,900 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Specialling Officer. Good afternoon again, Atty. Ronel. 1337 03:56:26,120 --> 03:56:27,480 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good afternoon, honorable Senator. 1338 03:56:28,160 --> 03:56:32,280 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Irarapido ko na para pumasok sa 2 minutes. Pakite-take notes lang yung mga tanong ko. Tatlo lang. 1339 03:56:32,520 --> 03:56:33,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay po, your 1340 03:56:33,080 --> 03:56:33,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: honor. 1341 03:56:33,400 --> 03:56:43,260 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Una, ano yung trigger mechanism sa AMLC para mag-file ng ex-parte petisyon sa Court of Appeals para sa pre-order? 1342 03:56:44,330 --> 03:56:45,610 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Probable cause po, your honor. 1343 03:56:47,040 --> 03:56:52,780 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Probable cause or docket ng predicate crime? 1344 03:56:53,380 --> 03:56:55,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama na din po yun, Your Honor. 1345 03:56:55,200 --> 03:56:59,960 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Not probable cause, but pag-docketed, pwede na yan. 1346 03:57:02,120 --> 03:57:15,980 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Anyway, sunod na tanong. Baka abutin tayong two minutes. Kindly enlighten us [unclear] yung court sa difference between express or explicit authority at saka yung implied authority. Follow-up doon. 1347 03:57:16,550 --> 03:57:26,840 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ano yung legal effect ng implied authority? Kasi bigat din ba ng express authority yun? Related yun sa tanong ni Atty. Mark kahapon. Tatandaan mo? 1348 03:57:27,440 --> 03:57:28,580 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Patungkol saan po? 1349 03:57:28,680 --> 03:57:31,220 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yung express authority against implied authority. 1350 03:57:33,560 --> 03:57:36,080 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Anyway, mamiya ulit. Ito yung pangatlo. 1351 03:57:36,520 --> 03:57:37,200 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Did 1352 03:57:37,400 --> 03:57:48,330 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: I hear you right na on the basis of an adverse news report? Pwede na kayong nag-deklara na suspicious yung transaction. 1353 03:57:49,150 --> 03:58:15,090 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po kami, your honor, yung nagde-declare po kung suspicious yung covered person po. But the covered person pa rin po, hindi lang naman po sa adverse news, they have to check din po yung mismo KYC, yung account po mismo, monitoring yung transaction nila. So based po dun sa mga internal na pag-check po, they have to consider all other matters po. Kasama na rin po yung sa adverse news po. 1354 03:58:15,230 --> 03:58:20,420 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: So yung comment na binabasa nyo kahapon na News reports, hindi sa inyo galing yun? 1355 03:58:20,420 --> 03:58:21,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po sa amin galing. 1356 03:58:21,380 --> 03:58:22,140 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: As a covered person? 1357 03:58:22,300 --> 03:58:23,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Covered person po yun, Your Honor. 1358 03:58:23,560 --> 03:58:40,110 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Okay. So yung sunod, yung, anyway, yung trigger, ang pag-alam nyo, probable cause. Ang sinabi kasi ng inyong predecessor sa amin, basta madakit lang. Alam mo, may nag-file ng complaint, pwede na kayo mag-ex-party. So which is which? 1359 03:58:40,430 --> 03:58:50,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, sa under the law po, pag... As far as I recall po, subject po dun sa kung ano yung nasa actual na batas po. If we'll be filing... 1360 03:58:51,850 --> 03:59:12,410 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: bank inquiry or freeze order po, there must be probable cause that the accounts are in any way related to money laundering. So yung probable cause po, such facts and circumstances that would warrant a reasonably prudent man to show that there is indeed money laundering, that the accounts are related to money laundering. So kasama po doon sa 1361 03:59:12,410 --> 03:59:13,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: pag-determine po nung 1362 03:59:15,370 --> 03:59:40,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Facts and Circumstances na maaaring related to money laundering ay kung may na-file ba na kaso, yung transactions niya, pati yung profile po niya. So, yun po yung kumbaga kaya po nag-iimbestiga po. And then, pag nabuo po yun, kasama po kung siyempre kailangan po namin ng crime po, ang unlawful activity, kasi the definition po mismo is it should come from unlawful activity. 1363 03:59:40,490 --> 03:59:41,180 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Correct. 1364 03:59:41,180 --> 03:59:48,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kaya kailangan po namin ng may unlawful activity. So baka hindi ko po masagot kung ano po yung nasabi ng mga nauna po sa akin. 1365 03:59:48,560 --> 03:59:48,800 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Attorney, 1366 03:59:48,960 --> 03:59:59,960 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: so now I'm confused kasi galing kay Executive Director Matthew yung pinangagalingan ko. Kasi tinanong ko when we were investigating yung flood control, tinanong ko sa kanya yan, what would... 1367 04:00:16,220 --> 04:00:44,450 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: We ask law enforcement to immediately file kung kaya na mag-file kasi yun ang mag-trigger kagad ng ex-party petition. Now, what you're saying is kailangan mag-establish pa ng probable cause. Ang alam ko sa probable cause, at least yung dating practice, ito yung threshold ng DOJ eh, ng prosecution eh, para mag-file information. But now, tinas yung threshold, di ba? Reasonable certainty of conviction na. 1368 04:00:44,690 --> 04:00:46,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: For criminal cases po. 1369 04:00:46,230 --> 04:00:46,770 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yeah, I know. 1370 04:00:46,770 --> 04:00:51,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Pero for freeze order lang po at bank inquiry po, probable cause po ay nasa batas pa rin po. 1371 04:00:51,810 --> 04:00:53,930 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pero kailangan may unlawful activity na papile. 1372 04:00:55,820 --> 04:01:01,580 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: You cannot file money laundering offense without any unlawful activity. Na-discuss na natin yan eh. 1373 04:01:01,680 --> 04:02:16,640 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo. Okay. Your Honor, to clarify lang po. So baka lang po iba yung pag... Hindi ko po kasi masagot kung ano po yung nabanggit po nung predecessor ko po. I also respect Executive Director Batu, my former boss po. So yung sa akin lang po na pagkakaintindi ko po ay... Kailangan lang po, yung probable cause po, syempre kasama po doon na may unlawful activity. Sa batas naman po at sa mga IRR, pati sabi rin po ng Supreme Court, yung pong unlawful activity can run parallel po doon sa money laundering. Pwede pong mauna, pwede pong mag-run parallel po. So, maaari po na sabay po namin nag-iimbestiga nung law enforcement po. Nag-file, mauna lang kami ng file pero nag-file din sila. So, pwede rin po na ganun. Basta po, yung ebidensya po sa mata po ng isang reasonable na tao po or ati sa court po, mabuo na kahit wala pa pong na-file na sakto na kaso pero nakita na yung ebidensya mo kompleto na talaga lahat, ipa-file na lang din. Pero maaari din po kaming mauna kasi allowed naman po na mag-parallel po, Your Honor. 1374 04:02:17,840 --> 04:02:19,880 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: With all due respect, thank you for the confusion. 1375 04:02:21,060 --> 04:02:25,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po, your honor. Apologies po. Apologies po. If I may po, I... 1376 04:02:25,180 --> 04:02:38,620 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Doon na lang tayo sa express versus implied. Kasi ang binigay sa inyo, sa understanding ko, sa sagot nyo kahapon, meron kayo implied authority kasi covered kayo ng issuance ng council, diba? 1377 04:02:39,360 --> 04:02:42,520 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, your honor. Ah, yung sa authority po to testify po. Ang 1378 04:02:42,520 --> 04:02:42,920 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: hawak 1379 04:02:42,920 --> 04:02:43,140 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: nyo, 1380 04:02:43,160 --> 04:02:44,600 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: implied, diba? 1381 04:02:45,020 --> 04:02:46,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Express authority po. 1382 04:02:46,920 --> 04:02:47,800 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang express 1383 04:02:47,800 --> 04:02:57,100 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: is clear. Saka direct. Diba? Yung tinatanong na ito ni Mark eh. Ikaw ba pagpunta mo rito meron kang binigay na authority. Parang case to case. 1384 04:02:57,360 --> 04:02:57,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay. 1385 04:02:58,140 --> 04:03:03,100 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang hawak mo sa ginagawa mo implied authority kasi inferred na yun eh. 1386 04:03:05,410 --> 04:03:08,130 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you again for the confusion. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1387 04:03:09,790 --> 04:03:11,810 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po. 1388 04:03:11,810 --> 04:03:23,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's okay, Attorney Ronel. You're entitled to a different opinion. Senator Judge Pangilinan is recognized. You may proceed when you're ready, sir. You have two minutes. 1389 04:03:24,390 --> 04:03:25,030 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you. 1390 04:03:35,150 --> 04:03:41,360 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: You wanted to avoid or you made double counting? You said that if you recall. 1391 04:03:41,720 --> 04:03:43,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Totoo po, yes po your honor. 1392 04:03:43,220 --> 04:03:45,460 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So ano ibig sabihin nung avoiding double counting? 1393 04:03:47,160 --> 04:04:22,790 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your honor, so nung hinanda po namin yung tabular summary po, meron po kasing mga entries po na na-report, CTR and STR po na Pareho pong na-report. Halimbawa po, halimbawa lang po ito yung nandun po sa Annex A po. Yung may entry po na pertaining po parehas kay VP at saka kay Atty. Manassas Carpio. Tapos may amount po parehas. So kumbaga po, yung isang transaction po na-report sa amin, dalawang beses nung covered person, hindi dahil 1394 04:04:25,200 --> 04:04:48,380 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magkaiba ng transaction kundi magkaiba po kasi yung nire-report po nila. So yung isa po halimbawa si Vice President po, yung isa po si Atty. Carpio. Pero ninote po namin dito sa record namin na hindi po namin yung binilang for purposes po kung ano yung total. So meron pong entry halimbawa po sa Annex A na less entries appearing in both extracts. Tapos meron po kaming note po doon na 1395 04:04:50,240 --> 04:05:09,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasi ano po yung report? Jointly held accounts. So, nung prepare po namin yung report, in-ensure po namin na to be as factually and accurately as possible, iniwasan po namin na may double counting. At kung may dalawang report man, we indicate it po para po guided po yung Honorable Court po. 1396 04:05:09,940 --> 04:05:16,920 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So, doon sa guidance for the Honorable Court na in-indicate ninyo na may double entry or may... 1397 04:05:16,920 --> 04:05:19,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Double reports po. 1398 04:05:20,080 --> 04:05:21,780 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Magkano yun? Would you have it? 1399 04:05:22,260 --> 04:05:30,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Main naka-indicate po dito yun, at least sa Annex A na table, the amount po is 81 million. 1400 04:05:30,280 --> 04:05:31,320 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So okay, did 1401 04:05:31,320 --> 04:05:35,220 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: you reconcile yung mga sinasabi niyong may double entry dun sa total? 1402 04:05:35,760 --> 04:05:37,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ah yes po, naka ano po yan. 1403 04:05:37,820 --> 04:05:50,020 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So ang sinasabi ninyo ay dahil tiniyak niyong macheck yung mga double entry, most likely, doon sa final summing up ninyo, wala nang double entry? 1404 04:05:50,140 --> 04:05:51,280 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala na po, wala na po, Your Honor. 1405 04:05:51,420 --> 04:05:56,600 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At yung figure na yun is inflow as well as outflow? 1406 04:05:57,560 --> 04:05:57,960 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, 1407 04:05:58,040 --> 04:05:58,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 1408 04:05:58,600 --> 04:06:03,300 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, so yung sinasabi kasing dahil double entry, lo lobo. 1409 04:06:05,480 --> 04:06:08,460 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So, lumobo ba? 1410 04:06:08,860 --> 04:06:11,520 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: O binawasin ninyo yung double entry? 1411 04:06:11,520 --> 04:06:12,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ang 1412 04:06:12,000 --> 04:06:30,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: samin po, Your Honor, basta po nai-report po sa amin na suspicious or covered transaction, nire-record po namin yun. Kung ano man po yung underlying po niya na bakit nag-transact or ni-roll over, ito ay roll over lang nito, unless po kita dun sa... 1413 04:06:30,700 --> 04:06:31,320 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, okay. 1414 04:06:31,320 --> 04:06:32,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po namin masagot. 1415 04:06:32,260 --> 04:06:35,500 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Understood. Ang nangyari po, yung... 1416 04:06:51,650 --> 04:06:52,670 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Dito 1417 04:06:52,670 --> 04:07:03,270 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: sa usapin ng CTRs involving insurance policy investment related transaction, meron kayong listahan dito. Time deposit. 1418 04:07:05,940 --> 04:07:12,740 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 129 CTRs. That does not mean 129 deposits. Anong ibig sabihin nun? 1419 04:07:14,400 --> 04:07:22,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung na-report po namin na to kung ano lang po yung lumabas po doon sa records po namin, Your Honor. 1420 04:07:22,340 --> 04:07:24,520 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, go ahead. 1421 04:07:24,520 --> 04:07:39,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po, hindi ko po masasabi kung ito po ay rollover or hindi. Depende po yun doon sa pagkakareport. Sa panagbasihan po namin nito, separate po yung transaction reference number, unique number po yun. So, we just indicated po kung ano po yung nakalagay doon sa report. 1422 04:07:39,700 --> 04:07:40,180 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And 1423 04:07:40,180 --> 04:07:45,520 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: this is from what period? Kasi hindi yata nakalagay. 2007 to 2025? 1424 04:07:45,520 --> 04:07:46,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 1425 04:07:46,200 --> 04:08:01,140 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Kasi ang total ng time deposits, at least yung aggregate amount, hindi mo alam kung nag-rollover o hindi. Just so that we're guided sa mga bank annulator, 529 million. Tama? 1426 04:08:01,140 --> 04:08:02,180 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yan. 1427 04:08:02,180 --> 04:08:10,980 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. At yung securities and bonds, ano yung securities and bonds? Para lang sa kaalaman nung... 1428 04:08:10,980 --> 04:08:16,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po yung mga sa pagbumibili po ng... 1429 04:08:16,440 --> 04:08:18,220 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Money market? 1430 04:08:20,060 --> 04:08:21,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo, yung mga ganun po. 1431 04:08:21,220 --> 04:08:26,660 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yung mga securities, T-bills, ganun? 1432 04:08:26,660 --> 04:08:28,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Maaari po. Pero 1433 04:08:28,080 --> 04:08:30,140 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: hindi po namin alam kung ano ang underlying. 1434 04:08:30,540 --> 04:08:38,460 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: As a general definition, this is 94,261,000. Tama? 1435 04:08:38,640 --> 04:08:41,500 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, sir. 261,275.70 euro. 1436 04:08:41,620 --> 04:08:48,050 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. And then yung insurance policies, 50, ang total niya, 1437 04:08:49,680 --> 04:08:51,180 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 65,322,000. 1438 04:08:51,500 --> 04:08:52,160 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Tama? 1439 04:08:52,160 --> 04:08:53,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 688.10, yes. 1440 04:08:53,440 --> 04:08:53,800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And 1441 04:08:53,800 --> 04:08:59,300 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: then finally, itong trust and agency investment. Yan, ano yan? 1442 04:09:04,400 --> 04:09:11,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po kasi yung code na lumabas lang po sa amin. Hindi ko lang po ano po exactly yung nandito po. Pero ito yung code. 1443 04:09:13,110 --> 04:09:17,890 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: UITF plus an agency. Kasi ito 60,492,000. 1444 04:09:18,230 --> 04:09:18,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 278 1445 04:09:18,870 --> 04:09:20,050 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: .57 euro. 1446 04:09:20,050 --> 04:09:22,470 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 492,000. Okay. Last question. 1447 04:09:23,690 --> 04:09:25,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may wind up, 1448 04:09:25,350 --> 04:09:25,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator 1449 04:09:25,970 --> 04:09:26,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge Kiko. 1450 04:09:26,890 --> 04:09:27,390 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes. 1451 04:09:30,310 --> 04:09:42,490 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Nasaan ba yung huli kong tanong? Ah, ito. Hindi ko maintindihan itong 1,197 suspicious transactions sa 1452 04:09:44,970 --> 04:09:47,570 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: 88, 888 Bistro, 1 1453 04:09:49,810 --> 04:09:51,470 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: ,100, ano ba to? 1454 04:09:51,730 --> 04:09:57,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Table 4 po, tama po, Your Honor. 1,197 STRs po. 1455 04:09:57,670 --> 04:09:58,510 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Suspicious. 1456 04:09:58,510 --> 04:10:00,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Suspicious transaction reports po, Your Honor. 1457 04:10:00,510 --> 04:10:04,530 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: For an aggregate amount of 42,960,000. 1458 04:10:04,530 --> 04:10:05,010 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 69 1459 04:10:05,010 --> 04:10:07,090 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: ,801.81 po, Your Honor. 1460 04:10:07,490 --> 04:10:08,430 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Bakit ang dami? 1461 04:10:13,890 --> 04:10:25,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yun po your honor, hindi ko po kailangan po makita yung records your honor to determine kung ano po yung reason na inindicate nila for each one po. Hindi po namin yun naisama dito sa summary. 1462 04:10:25,370 --> 04:10:26,090 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Sa kumpanya ito 1463 04:10:26,090 --> 04:10:30,310 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: eh no? At ang mga nagre-record nito yung bank accounts ng kumpanya, tama? 1464 04:10:30,450 --> 04:10:34,770 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Covered persons po, hindi ko po alam exactly kung sino-sino lahat po yung nag-report po sa kanila. 1465 04:10:35,230 --> 04:10:42,550 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, so yun lang ang ano no? There are 1,197 suspicions sa 8888 bistro. 1466 04:10:46,610 --> 04:10:47,050 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Yes, 1467 04:10:48,950 --> 04:10:53,590 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: okay. I have no other questions at this time. Thank you, Mr. President. 1468 04:10:53,590 --> 04:10:54,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank 1469 04:10:54,010 --> 04:10:54,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you. Thank you, 1470 04:10:54,810 --> 04:10:55,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator 1471 04:10:55,010 --> 04:10:59,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge Pangilinan. Senator Judge Villanueva is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready. 1472 04:11:02,570 --> 04:11:05,850 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. President. Kabayan, di ka pa rin kumakain? 1473 04:11:06,790 --> 04:11:09,830 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: After na lang po nito, Your Honor. Salamat po. 1474 04:11:10,070 --> 04:11:12,150 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ano na agad yung time ko? Pinanong ko lang kung kumain. 1475 04:11:12,150 --> 04:11:12,370 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi 1476 04:11:12,370 --> 04:11:12,930 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po, Your Honor, 1477 04:11:12,990 --> 04:11:13,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: hindi po. 1478 04:11:13,430 --> 04:11:19,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi kayo, hindi kayo. Sila lang. Baka siya magalit si Mayor Christian pag di ka pinakain. 1479 04:11:22,420 --> 04:11:35,000 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Clarification, kanina dun sa cross-examination, binanggit yung whether or not sinama or hindi yung binanggit, I think, if I'm not mistaken, yung BPI na 2 billion. Hindi po sinama, diba? 1480 04:11:36,110 --> 04:11:37,910 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi na po sinama. Hindi na po sinama. 1481 04:11:37,930 --> 04:11:41,830 Sen. Joel Villanueva: So ibig sabihin kung sinama yun, umabot pa ng 6 billion yung aggregate. 1482 04:11:43,470 --> 04:11:46,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po makompute po pero plus yun po. 1483 04:11:46,190 --> 04:11:47,970 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kasi 4.4 billion. So 1484 04:11:47,970 --> 04:12:04,210 Sen. Joel Villanueva: 6 billion. So kaya hindi nakasama. Okay. Thank you for that. Now, dito po sa tabular report and this is during the time when the vice presidents already elected 22 to 25. 1485 04:12:05,950 --> 04:12:15,190 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Yung reported, approximately 424 million and about 178 million is classified as undetermined. Nakita niyo po yan? 1486 04:12:15,390 --> 04:12:16,210 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo, tama po. 1487 04:12:20,460 --> 04:12:36,900 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Hindi masabi kung inflow o outflow and that is a substantial portion of the total. Hindi ko ba? Out of 424, 178 yung hindi makita. Ano po exactly yung ibig sabihin ng undetermined? Inamblas Records. Ah, 1488 04:12:37,020 --> 04:12:37,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: okay po, your honor. 1489 04:12:38,240 --> 04:12:44,900 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Si Senlito yung telepono na yun. Ah, okay po. Baka lang importante. Sigurado. 1490 04:12:45,680 --> 04:12:57,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, your honor to clarify lang po sa AMLC records po, we don't have an indication po sa record kung inflow or outflow po siya. 1491 04:12:57,720 --> 04:12:58,120 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And what 1492 04:12:58,120 --> 04:13:03,380 Sen. Joel Villanueva: prevents AMLC from identifying the direction of those transactions? 1493 04:13:05,400 --> 04:13:44,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Mas refined po kasi yung codes na ginagamit namin. Transaction code. Hindi lang po inflow or outflow. Instead na inflow lang po siya, may code na po kami na remittance ba yan, check deposit ba yan, cash deposit ba yan. So mas detalyado po. Pag nag-a-analyze po kami, mas madali po namin ma-analyze kung ano ba ito, cash deposit ba ito, check deposit ba ito. So, sa records po namin, hindi na po kami gumagamit, wala na po yung parang, wala po talaga as far as I know po. Wala pong in-flow or out-flow. Pero, nung ginawa lang po itong report based po doon sa 1494 04:13:44,150 --> 04:13:55,000 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: request ng prosecution, we are... We identified ano pong code yung maaaring based doon sa pumapasok sa account. So yun po yung naging base po namin. Kung 1495 04:13:55,000 --> 04:14:05,960 Sen. Joel Villanueva: baga po hindi pumapasok doon sa chart of accounts ninyo and somehow this would be falling under perhaps unidentified? 1496 04:14:07,160 --> 04:14:19,620 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa perspective po namin, hindi lang po namin ma-identify kung inflow po ba siya or outflow? Pero nagkaroon po ng transaction doon sa account. Hindi lang po namin [unclear]. 1497 04:14:19,960 --> 04:14:24,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo, hindi po namin makategorize at the point nung ginagawa po namin ito kung inflow or 1498 04:14:24,860 --> 04:14:25,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: outflow. 1499 04:14:25,360 --> 04:14:28,820 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Because if it is inflow, sir, inflow, wealth, yan. 1500 04:14:30,400 --> 04:14:31,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko rin po masabi. 1501 04:14:31,780 --> 04:15:26,570 Sen. Joel Villanueva: That's my personal. Okay, that's my personal. Now, next question, attorney. You know, every time you say from China, It can easily become a headline especially nowadays but this is what we wanted to make sure kasi yung summary dito sa 319 million from China eh gusto natin ma-establish and approximately yung 319 million inward remittances to Cale88 Foods Corporation associated with China Para lang po hindi tayo mag-overstate ng record, does AMLC actually establish that the economic source of those funds was from China? Was China? Or does the table only establish that the remitters had addresses reported as being in mainland China or in Hong Kong? 1502 04:15:28,760 --> 04:15:53,640 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: None of the above, Your Honor. Ang meron po is Based on records, as reported by the reporting entity or covered person, ang nilagay po nila na place of remitter, place or address of the remitter ay ito pong mga bansa po na ito. So, ito po ay based po as reported sa amin nung covered person na nag-report po. 1503 04:15:53,640 --> 04:15:54,400 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And sorry 1504 04:15:54,400 --> 04:16:04,450 Sen. Joel Villanueva: ha, and you say, just to clarify, you say na reported address of the remitter, not the location of a correspondent bank? Tama ba? 1505 04:16:07,040 --> 04:16:26,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo, tama po. Nakalagay po dito sa may note po kami na sa footnote number 9 po. Based on the remitter's address as reported and not on the correspondent bank. Where the address does not state the country, the city state that is used po. So 1506 04:16:26,120 --> 04:16:59,800 Sen. Joel Villanueva: siguro ito nila yung last ipupunto ko, attorney. Can AMLA... Can AMLC identify the natural or juridical persons who sent the funds, their relationship for example to itong Cale88 and the stated purpose of the remittance whether ito man ay payment ng goods or services, loan man ito, investment, capital infusion or another transaction? Kasi pag tinignan mo yung operation, parang concerning talaga eh. 1507 04:17:00,780 --> 04:17:13,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: On the basis of the CTRs and STRs, no po kung ano lang kasi yung nai-report po sa amin. But if we, if in ordinary procedure po, if we conduct further investigation, we'll be able to identify po, Your Honor. 1508 04:17:13,500 --> 04:17:23,360 Sen. Joel Villanueva: And the STR alone states 1,197 dun sa bistro. Dito sa Kale, I 1509 04:17:31,550 --> 04:17:34,170 Sen. Joel Villanueva: think there are three. I think there are three. 1510 04:17:34,770 --> 04:17:36,430 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Is that correct? 1511 04:17:36,430 --> 04:17:39,530 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: For the inward remittance po, there are three po, your honor. 1512 04:17:40,150 --> 04:17:44,970 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Anyway, salamat po at naliwanagan ako kahit papano. Salamat po. 1513 04:17:45,150 --> 04:17:45,930 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Marami po, salamat. 1514 04:17:45,930 --> 04:17:50,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Villanueva. The Senate President is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready. 1515 04:17:50,930 --> 04:17:55,690 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Good afternoon, Atty. Buenaventura. 1516 04:17:55,690 --> 04:17:55,870 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Good 1517 04:17:55,870 --> 04:17:56,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: afternoon, po, 1518 04:17:56,350 --> 04:17:56,850 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Senate President. 1519 04:17:56,850 --> 04:18:21,340 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tinitignan ko itong report ninyo na finurnish kami yung Annex DD-9 Letter D, no? May nakita kong pattern dito. From 2009 to 2013, ang transactions reported by VP Sara for that time frame alone is about 2.7 billion pesos. 1520 04:18:22,940 --> 04:18:50,670 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Lumalabas parang that transaction alone It's almost 70-80% of the total 3.3 billion transaction. So, for example sa 2009, 700 million, 2010, 600 million, 2011, 500 million. Ito ba, alam ko matagal na ito, ito ba tinitignan rin ng AMLC? 1521 04:18:52,950 --> 04:19:00,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies, Your Honor, I don't have a copy po nung... Nung report po na nabanggit nyo right now with me po. 1522 04:19:00,940 --> 04:19:01,420 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ito 1523 04:19:01,420 --> 04:19:03,860 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: yung report na finurnish nyo sa amin. 1524 04:19:04,420 --> 04:19:13,480 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Confidential information sharing. Wala lang po akong copy on hand po. But just to answer na lang po your question po. 1525 04:19:15,280 --> 04:19:25,800 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As stated lang po doon sa report, naka-indicate po that they were included in that report po. So, yun na po yung maisasagot ko po doon sa tanong nyo po. 1526 04:19:25,800 --> 04:19:43,840 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: But it's an unusual trend kasi compared to the others na on the average 40 million lang in transaction, ito is about 2.7 billion in transaction in the span of 5 years. In your opinion, is this something that AMLC should look at despite, alam ko matagal na siya? 1527 04:19:45,760 --> 04:19:46,360 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your 1528 04:19:46,360 --> 04:19:46,680 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor, 1529 04:19:49,340 --> 04:20:03,720 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: tinitignan, hindi ko po maalala po kasi yung exact na nakalagay po, but generally po, yung historical naman po na transaction, tinitignan din po kasi po, part din po sa tinitignan kung nagkaroon ba ng biglaang... 1530 04:20:11,230 --> 04:20:12,110 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank 1531 04:20:12,110 --> 04:20:42,340 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: you for that answer. And then, nakita ko rin dito sa report ninyo na out of the 34 STRs, again kay Vice President Sarreto, 30 nasa period between 2022 to 2025. So that's about 80% nung kanyang STRs nasa tatlong taon lang. Bakit nasa tatlong taon lang out of the entire 18-year period? 1532 04:20:43,630 --> 04:20:51,170 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, hindi ko po masagot ito po ay kung ano po yung lumabas sa record namin na nireport po ng covered person. Yun po yung... 1533 04:20:51,170 --> 04:21:00,050 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yes, tama nga. Galing to sa report nyo. Anong sinasabi ng inyong report? Bakit in three years out of the... 1534 04:21:01,840 --> 04:21:06,180 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: 18 years. Doon ang bulto ng STRs. 1535 04:21:06,800 --> 04:21:13,200 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po, Your Honor. Wala lang po kasi ako nung copy ng report so hindi ko po masagot kung ano po yung naka-indicate po sa report po, Your Honor. 1536 04:21:13,840 --> 04:21:15,620 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Wala ka ba? Galing sa iyo yung report? 1537 04:21:15,920 --> 04:21:21,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Wala po akong copy nung on-hand po. Hindi po siya isa doon sa dala ko po na copy, Your Honor. 1538 04:21:21,880 --> 04:21:30,740 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ito yung nanggaling to dito sa October 1539 04:21:33,390 --> 04:21:33,950 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: 1. 1540 04:21:40,110 --> 04:21:41,990 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Request for summary. Ito po. 1541 04:21:41,990 --> 04:21:42,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sorry 1542 04:21:42,230 --> 04:21:44,650 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po. Yung table 3 po ba, Your Honor? Table 3 po. 1543 04:21:45,290 --> 04:21:47,210 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yes, table 3. 1544 04:21:47,210 --> 04:21:48,630 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ah, table 3 po. 1545 04:21:48,630 --> 04:21:55,240 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tingnan mo yung table 1 and table 3. Tama. 1546 04:21:55,240 --> 04:21:55,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Okay. 1547 04:21:55,660 --> 04:22:00,660 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, pasensya na po, Your Honor. Maari po bang maipaulit po yung katanungan? 1548 04:22:00,660 --> 04:22:01,040 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Tingnan mo yung table 1549 04:22:01,040 --> 04:22:01,680 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: 1. 1550 04:22:01,680 --> 04:22:02,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Table 1 po. 1551 04:22:02,340 --> 04:22:03,800 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kay Vice President Sara 34. 1552 04:22:05,460 --> 04:22:12,620 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: STRs. Table 3, 30. Bakit nandoon sa tatlong taon yung bulto ng STRs niya? 1553 04:22:15,730 --> 04:22:27,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po, Your Honor, ay binilang lang po namin sa amin po. At ang bilang po namin ay from 2007 to 2025. 1554 04:22:27,230 --> 04:22:29,610 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Correct. Alam ko binilang niyo. Pero bakit nga? 1555 04:22:32,600 --> 04:22:37,120 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Anong dahilan ng STRs? Ano yung mga grounds na na-declare siyang STR? 1556 04:22:37,300 --> 04:22:55,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So, Your Honor, yung pong mismong report po ng covered person, meron po nakilagay po kung ano yung reason. Kung kailangan po natin nung reason, hindi ko po, on top of my head po, hindi ko po siya kabisado. I'll have to refer po dun sa mismong record po. Ano 1557 04:22:55,860 --> 04:22:59,180 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ba yung mga reasons na, dito lang, concerning this one, 1558 04:23:01,100 --> 04:23:04,020 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Natatandaan mo? Doon sa 30. 1559 04:23:04,980 --> 04:23:16,080 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, apologies po. I cannot recall po yung sa 30 po. Ay hindi ko po siya intentionally tinignan when I was preparing for my testimony po, Your Honor. 1560 04:23:16,240 --> 04:23:30,270 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. Meron akong, pero hindi ito comprehensive. May mga nakita kong, I just went through it lang very quickly lang. Emalversation of public funds and property. 1561 04:23:31,970 --> 04:23:37,890 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: graph and corrupt practices. Ito yung mga nakasulat sa ilan sa mga STRs. 1562 04:23:39,640 --> 04:23:44,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung yun po yung nakasulat yun, yun po as reported po ng covered person. 1563 04:23:45,110 --> 04:23:50,210 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: And then, nakita ko rin dito na marami dito ang source ay news articles. 1564 04:23:52,400 --> 04:24:07,160 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sa inyo bang process, pag ganitong Mayroong grounds, ang dahilan ay malversations of public funds and property and then galing news articles. Anong susunod na step? 1565 04:24:08,950 --> 04:24:10,550 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, ito po ay yung 1566 04:24:10,550 --> 04:24:17,810 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: process lang naman po. Your Honor, hindi po masagot yung for this one. Process lang. Process lang. Ano yung 1567 04:24:17,810 --> 04:24:18,510 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: susunod na step? 1568 04:24:18,710 --> 04:25:24,560 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung may nag-report po sa amin na covered person, tapos indicate po nila yung particular na crime po, alam ba po, drug trafficking or kung ano man po. So, titignan po namin doon sa narrative nila, ano po yung basis bakit nila ni-report. So, alam ba po, binention po sila na news report. Tapos may nilagay po doon halimbawa na may nag-file po ng kaso, ganyan. So kami po, titignan po namin sinong agency ba yung dapat namin ma-coordinate to confirm po kung talaga bang may final na kaso, talaga bang may investigation. Kasi po, sabi nga po, paliwanag po kanina, yung sa amin po is the financial side po ng crime. So base po doon sa report, Kung baga, pag nag-contact po kami ng analysis tsaka further investigation po, titignan namin, okay, kung na-report po ito, may nag-file daw ng kaso, let's coordinate po dun sa law enforcement po, kasi naman po. And then titignan po namin, yung bang final nila, meron bang financial aspect po na-involve. Kasi maaari naman po nawala din eh. So kung meron po, yun po, magka-conduct na po kami ng normal po na investigation po. So 1569 04:25:24,560 --> 04:25:27,860 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: kahit na news report, inaktuhan nyo rin and you investigate? 1570 04:25:28,730 --> 04:25:49,330 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: kasama po yun, maaari pong maging factor po yun, maging trigger din po, kasama po ng all other like yung STRs, CTRs po. So tinitignan po namin on the overall information na meron kami, ano yung kung talaga ba mapoprogress or hindi po. 1571 04:25:49,330 --> 04:25:49,710 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank 1572 04:25:49,710 --> 04:25:50,010 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: you, 1573 04:25:50,050 --> 04:25:50,510 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Mr. President. 1574 04:25:51,170 --> 04:26:08,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. It should be Senator Judge Padilla but while waiting for him, Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo. AMLC is recognized. You may proceed sir. You have two minutes. If Senator Padilla is still not available, Senator Judge Pangilinan will be up next. You may proceed sir when you're ready. 1575 04:26:09,430 --> 04:26:14,030 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Presiding Officer. Attorney Ronel Buenaventura. 1576 04:26:14,030 --> 04:26:15,940 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 1577 04:26:15,940 --> 04:26:31,610 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Bagamat luwabas na po dito sa impeachment court ito pong issue na ito tinggal po sa mga bank transactions po ng VP, mag-iimbestiga pa rin po ba ang AMLC? or AMLC. Patungkol ba sa mga accounts po niya? O hindi na? 1578 04:26:33,380 --> 04:26:42,660 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung decision po na yun ay kailangan ko pa po i-discuss din po internally sa amin po. So hindi ko pa po masagot ngayon po. 1579 04:26:42,660 --> 04:26:43,080 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. 1580 04:26:44,780 --> 04:26:53,120 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Base po sa records ng AMLC, AMLC, may pera po mag-isawa sa bangko. Tama po ba? 2007 hanggang 2025. 1581 04:26:55,400 --> 04:26:56,920 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Pakicheck po dyan sa papel nyo. 1582 04:27:00,970 --> 04:27:11,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, yung nandito po na report po namin, transaction po nila ito. Hindi po namin masabi kung meron pong laman na pera po 1583 04:27:11,130 --> 04:27:12,890 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: sa particular na bank account po nila. 1584 04:27:13,030 --> 04:27:15,030 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay, so transactions lang po ito. 1585 04:27:15,030 --> 04:27:15,450 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo, transactions. 1586 04:27:15,450 --> 04:27:15,750 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Saan po 1587 04:27:15,750 --> 04:27:19,550 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: hinango yung inyong dokumento na yan? Sino po nagbigay sa inyo yan? 1588 04:27:20,380 --> 04:27:23,640 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ito po yung repair po namin na summary po. 1589 04:27:23,640 --> 04:27:24,280 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kaya nga 1590 04:27:24,280 --> 04:27:27,800 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: po saan po nakuha ninyo yung report na yan? Sa banko, di po ba? 1591 04:27:28,040 --> 04:27:29,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung basis po nito sa banko po. 1592 04:27:29,900 --> 04:27:30,440 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sa banko, 1593 04:27:30,440 --> 04:27:31,320 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: ayun. 1594 04:27:31,320 --> 04:27:32,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Banko and covered person po, in 1595 04:27:32,820 --> 04:27:33,480 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: general po. 1596 04:27:33,480 --> 04:27:46,960 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay, alright. So taliwas po ito sa SALN EVP na zero cash on hand at zero cash in bank from 2019 to 2025. Pero huwag nyo na po sagutin yan kasi baka wala po kayong dokumento. Okay. 1597 04:27:49,280 --> 04:28:07,860 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Kung wala po kayong personal knowledge at walang definitive AMLC findings hinggil po sa mga accounts na ito, attorney, ano po ang factual basis para sabihin nating legal o illegal ang source ng mga pera ng mag-asawa? O safe ba nating sabihin na walang problema ang mga pera nila at all? 1598 04:28:09,200 --> 04:28:10,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, 1599 04:28:11,800 --> 04:28:32,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Sa akin po, I submit to this honorable court po to determine that po based po dun sa I understand po with the ongoing case po. Ako naman po ay kami naman po sa AMSA ay nasupina. Ito po yung pinaproduce po sa amin. So we just submit po. So yung pagbuo po nito o kung ano man po, appreciation po nasa honorable court na po, Your Honor. 1600 04:28:32,680 --> 04:28:50,200 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Very good answer, sir. Anyway. Can you identify if there are any specific amount that remains unexplained that is attributed to VP Sara after all transfers, legit transactions, and with funds with documents, sources? 1601 04:28:51,850 --> 04:28:57,950 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, for the same answer po, I leave it to the Honorable Court to determine kung if they think it is unexplained or not, Your Honor. 1602 04:28:58,090 --> 04:29:31,680 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: I will take that answer, sir. Anyway, without mentioning names or attributing to someone, Atty. Ronel, normal po ba sa isang government official na makipag-transact sa isang foreign company or state-owned company without mentioning any names or based on your experience, may nakikita na ba kayo na ganun na... of government official natin, transacting business with state-owned, hindi lang China, pwede sa abroad, US, Europe, lalaking ipag-transact po isang government official natin. 1603 04:29:33,040 --> 04:29:37,520 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Maikli pa lang po yung servisyo ko sa gobyerno, Your Honor, so hindi ko po masagot po yung... 1604 04:29:37,520 --> 04:29:37,660 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So 1605 04:29:37,660 --> 04:29:39,300 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: you haven't encountered yet? 1606 04:29:39,300 --> 04:29:40,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 1607 04:29:40,260 --> 04:29:47,780 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. Well, Mr. Presiding Officer, that's it for me for this afternoon. Thank you. Thank you. 1608 04:29:47,860 --> 04:29:51,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Pangilinan. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. 1609 04:29:51,190 --> 04:29:53,090 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you 1610 04:29:57,670 --> 04:30:00,000 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: once again, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1611 04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:16,700 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: In general 1612 04:30:16,860 --> 04:30:18,240 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po, yes sir. At 1613 04:30:18,240 --> 04:30:26,220 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: dito sa mga kasong ito na dinadala niyo sa CA, nagbibigay kayo ng AMLA records, di ba? 1614 04:30:30,180 --> 04:30:32,540 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po. Yes po. Totoo po. 1615 04:30:32,540 --> 04:30:32,920 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes. 1616 04:30:32,920 --> 04:30:34,620 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At tinatanggap ng Korte. 1617 04:30:34,620 --> 04:30:35,320 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Opo. 1618 04:30:35,320 --> 04:30:43,000 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At ginagamit ng Korte ng basehan para mag-issue o hindi mag-issue ng freeze order. 1619 04:30:43,000 --> 04:30:44,400 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 1620 04:30:44,400 --> 04:30:54,700 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: At kung wala yung mga records na yun at dahil nga absolute confidentiality, mapapabilis ba yung trabaho niyo? 1621 04:30:56,380 --> 04:31:05,020 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung absolute confidentiality po, hindi po kami mapag-file ng kaso. At kung mag-file man kami at wala pong supporting documents, ididismiss lang po yun ng court po. 1622 04:31:05,260 --> 04:31:15,370 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Kaya, ibig sabihin, yung absolute confidentiality only pertains to unauthorized disclosures. 1623 04:31:15,370 --> 04:31:16,170 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, Your Honor. 1624 04:31:16,170 --> 04:31:16,590 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Hindi ba? 1625 04:31:16,590 --> 04:31:16,930 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apo. 1626 04:31:16,930 --> 04:31:23,540 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Pero pagka authorized disclosures, the absolute confidentiality will not apply. 1627 04:31:25,570 --> 04:31:29,430 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Insofar as the law, the rules and guidelines would allow. 1628 04:31:29,430 --> 04:31:29,830 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Kung 1629 04:31:29,830 --> 04:31:44,510 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: susundan natin yung argumento na may absolute confidentiality ang AMLA records, wala na kayong na-freeze ng mga account, wala na kayong may sasampangkasong money laundering at iba pa. 1630 04:31:44,850 --> 04:31:49,770 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. Tama po. Hindi rin po kami makapagsabit nung halimbawa po nagre-request ng mga... 1631 04:31:49,770 --> 04:31:50,110 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Kaya 1632 04:31:50,110 --> 04:31:50,610 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: hindi na namin 1633 04:31:50,610 --> 04:31:50,850 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: kayo 1634 04:31:50,850 --> 04:31:52,070 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: bibigyan ng budget. 1635 04:31:52,070 --> 04:31:52,970 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Ayun nga po sasabihin ko. 1636 04:31:52,990 --> 04:31:57,410 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi na po kami makasabit ng mga documents to support the budget request po, Your Honor. 1637 04:31:57,870 --> 04:32:04,150 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Bakit namin kayo bibigyan ng budget? Sabi nga ni Senate President Soto, magsara na lang kayo. Hindi ba? 1638 04:32:05,980 --> 04:32:10,120 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: No other questions, Mr. Presiding Officer. 1639 04:32:10,240 --> 04:32:17,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While we're waiting for Senator Judge Rob, Senator Judge J.V. Ejercito is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. When you're ready. 1640 04:32:18,500 --> 04:32:22,700 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Director. 1641 04:32:22,700 --> 04:32:24,960 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magandang hapon po, Honorable Senator. 1642 04:32:24,960 --> 04:32:40,700 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: Meron na ng katanungan, pagpalilinaw. Kapag gumagawa ba ng covered banks ng CTR at STRs, Para sa mga corporation, tinutukoy din ba nila kung sino mismo ang actual na nasa ligod o nagsasagawan ng transaction? 1643 04:32:42,980 --> 04:33:00,900 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Nakalagay po kung sino yung pangalan, kung kaninong account. May entries po kami, depende po sa nature ng transaction, like po yung remittance po, nakalagay po kung sino yung nagpadala, tsaka yung address po. So may iba po na alam, may iba po, depende po sa nature po ng transaction, your honor. 1644 04:33:01,560 --> 04:33:21,560 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: So sa kaso po ng mga korporasyong nakasal sa table 4 nung inyong summary particular po pag tinutukoy ng mga bangko o covered institutions kung ang vice president o si Atty. Carpio nga ba ang mismong nagsagawa ng mga transaksyong naging subject ng mga CTR at STR? 1645 04:33:22,430 --> 04:33:27,670 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung table 4, yung juridical, ay yung juridical persons, ay yung corporations po your honor. 1646 04:33:30,970 --> 04:33:50,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masagot your honor kasi kung ang tanong niyo po ay kung si attorney Carpio po kasi Hindi ko po masagot kasi maaari pong nailagay po sa report pero hindi ko po, kumbaga hindi ko po consciously inisa-isa po yung report po. So maaari pong nakalagay siya doon, maaari rin po na hindi. 1647 04:33:50,190 --> 04:33:51,730 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: So hindi masasabi no? 1648 04:33:51,730 --> 04:33:56,330 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko lang po masasabi ngayon po kasi isa-isahin po para po malaman namin. 1649 04:33:57,360 --> 04:34:07,180 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: So ano pong ibang informasyon na pwede natin makuha o kailangan para malaman kung sino talaga ang gumawa ng ngayong transaksyon? 1650 04:34:09,520 --> 04:34:16,040 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kadalasan po ito, in general na lang po kasi hindi ko po masagot yung dito po. 1651 04:34:18,140 --> 04:34:41,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Para po malaman namin yung mga actual na transaksyon po. Yung mga detalye po, nagpa-file po kami kung sa banko po yun nung bank inquiry po. Mag-i-inquire na po kami with the banks po. Tapos, hingi din po kami ng kung kinakalangan po yung mga SEC records. Request po kami to determine sino po yung mga persons po behind this. 1652 04:34:41,790 --> 04:34:44,450 Sen. Joseph Victor "JV" G. Ejercito: Okay, thank you. I'm so beside you, sir. Salamat, Director. 1653 04:34:45,430 --> 04:34:46,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Zubiris, recognize. 1654 04:34:52,330 --> 04:34:54,290 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Magandang hapon, Attorney Buenaventura. 1655 04:34:54,530 --> 04:34:55,290 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Magandang hapon po. 1656 04:34:55,290 --> 04:34:55,590 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Thank 1657 04:34:55,590 --> 04:35:06,640 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: you. Atty. Buenaventura, alam ko gatekeeper, alam po kayo record keeping. Pag po pumapasok ng mga suspicious transactions, re-record niyo yan for further study. Di ba po? 1658 04:35:06,640 --> 04:35:07,340 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 1659 04:35:07,340 --> 04:35:16,540 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: So, alam niyo din po, katulad binanggit kanina ni Sen. JV, alam niyo po kung saan galing papasok yung pera at palabas? Saan papunta? 1660 04:35:16,540 --> 04:35:18,060 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As reported po, yes po. 1661 04:35:18,060 --> 04:35:27,250 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: As reported. So, you have a detailed breakdown. Kung sino yung nagpapadala ng remittance o pera sa isang account na suspicious. 1662 04:35:27,790 --> 04:35:31,230 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes po, basta nai-report po sa amin, makikita po yun sa records ako. 1663 04:35:31,530 --> 04:35:44,850 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Dahil dito sa binigyan yung records sa Cal... How do you pronounce it? Is it Kale or Kale? Kasi Kale kasi is double L eh. Kale, C-A... Anyway, C-A-L-E 88, Kale 88, or Kale 88. 1664 04:35:46,480 --> 04:36:08,200 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Pwede bang, could you furnish the court a copy of the breakdown of all the remittances from overseas? Yung China, Hong Kong, Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Russia, South Africa, Ukraine, Tajikistan. Could you just copy the court for us to study further and closely yung mga deposits na ito? 1665 04:36:08,200 --> 04:36:09,740 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor, yung pong 1666 04:36:09,740 --> 04:36:20,250 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: CRS aggregate amount nandito po sa Table 5. Yung actual na report po on this one po, nasabit na po namin sa court. 1667 04:36:21,790 --> 04:36:25,190 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yung CTRs na copies po, yung mga pinapabasa po sa akin. 1668 04:36:25,450 --> 04:36:50,920 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: May we ask the presiding officer, Mr. Presiding Officer, can you give us the breakdown of the companies that are remitting from these other countries? Binagit kasi lang natin mainland China, tsaka Hong Kong. There are other countries that almost add up to 50 million. It's interesting to find out itong mga kumpanya kung ano itong mga kumpanya. Should we have the AMLC furnish that to us or should we just do it on our own, Mr. President? 1669 04:36:50,920 --> 04:36:51,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We 1670 04:36:51,020 --> 04:37:07,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can, the clerk can do that. The clerk can assist, the clerk of court rather, can assist the senator-judge in calling that from the evidence on record as submitted by AMLC. Nandun po yan sa mga sinabit niyo po, di po? Yung mga kumpanya mula sa Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Russia. 1671 04:37:07,090 --> 04:37:08,490 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: As reported po. Yes po. 1672 04:37:08,590 --> 04:37:15,730 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: As reported. At sana ilalagay po individually which companies at magkano yung rinipit po nila sa atin. Maraming salamat po sa inyong office. 1673 04:37:15,730 --> 04:37:16,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The clerk 1674 04:37:16,070 --> 04:37:31,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is so directed to furnish Senator Judge Zubiri with a list of the companies coming from the countries mentioned in the AMLC report under the table submitted by Attorney Ronel. All the Senator Judges 1675 04:37:31,950 --> 04:37:34,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: as requested by Senator Judge Villanueva. So ordered. 1676 04:37:35,150 --> 04:37:54,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the Senate President, Senator Judge Robin Padilla is no longer availing of his interjection. The Presiding Officer has just a few more interjections. I refer you to page 6, table 6 of your summary. Ano po ang year covered nito? 1677 04:37:57,650 --> 04:37:58,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ito 1678 04:37:58,230 --> 04:38:01,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po yung CTR involving insurance policies, investment-related transactions. 1679 04:38:05,320 --> 04:38:07,820 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: 2007 to 2025 po, Your Honor. 1680 04:38:08,640 --> 04:38:21,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2007 to 2025. Napansin ko po rito, dito pala nakalagay yung time deposit. So, 529,805,306 pesos and 40 centavos yung time deposits. 1681 04:38:21,480 --> 04:38:22,980 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yung nasa... 1682 04:38:22,980 --> 04:38:24,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hiwalay 1683 04:38:24,140 --> 04:38:29,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po yan dun sa deposito sa bangko. Or counted po yan dun? 1684 04:38:29,900 --> 04:38:30,860 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasama po yan, 1685 04:38:30,960 --> 04:38:31,600 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Your Honor. 1686 04:38:31,780 --> 04:38:33,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ano ibig sabihin ng kasama? I mean, 1687 04:38:33,080 --> 04:38:39,750 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: counted po yan. Counted po. Counted po sa nareport po ng banko. Time deposit po ay sa banko po ito, Your Honor. 1688 04:38:40,010 --> 04:38:42,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Opo, ba't hiniwalay nyo ng table dito? 1689 04:38:43,190 --> 04:38:46,150 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kasi yung investment 1690 04:38:47,720 --> 04:38:53,220 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: related transaction po yung narequest po, yung nandun po sa letter ng prosecution, Your 1691 04:38:53,220 --> 04:38:53,460 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Honor. 1692 04:38:53,460 --> 04:39:12,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So dito po sa table 3, kaugnay ng CTR at STR from 2022 to 2025, Kasama po yung time deposits na 529 million for the period covered by 2022 and 2025. Tama po? 1693 04:39:12,320 --> 04:39:15,260 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi po yung entire 529. 1694 04:39:15,260 --> 04:39:15,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kasi 1695 04:39:15,740 --> 04:39:16,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: nga 22 to 25 lang. 1696 04:39:17,160 --> 04:39:17,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero 1697 04:39:17,840 --> 04:39:27,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yung 2022 to 2025, yung 500 million kasama yan sa 4.4 billion. 1698 04:39:27,900 --> 04:39:31,760 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. Sa table, ano number po ito? 1699 04:39:31,760 --> 04:39:32,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Page 1. 1700 04:39:34,600 --> 04:39:35,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So 1701 04:39:35,540 --> 04:39:41,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: dyan papasok yung rollover sa kabuhang halaga na 529 million. 1702 04:39:42,410 --> 04:39:48,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung sinasabing 1703 04:39:48,350 --> 04:39:51,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: rollover ng mga kabilang partido. 1704 04:39:52,970 --> 04:39:58,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero kaugnay lamang yan sa 529 million out of the 4.4 billion. 1705 04:40:01,080 --> 04:40:03,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm simply disaggregating it, Atty. Ronald. 1706 04:40:03,320 --> 04:40:04,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po yun. Tama po yun. 1707 04:40:05,000 --> 04:40:12,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, yung parte ng time deposit na posibleng i-rollover dito sa 4.4 billion ay 529 million lamang? 1708 04:40:13,570 --> 04:40:22,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung yung napag-usapan po na rollover, yes po. Pero hindi ko po sinasabi na rollover po yun. As reported lang 1709 04:40:22,130 --> 04:40:22,390 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: po. 1710 04:40:22,390 --> 04:40:26,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Salamat po. Sunod po. Kunti lamang po ito. 1711 04:40:30,480 --> 04:41:03,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung mga korporasyon, Sabihin na po natin, halimbawa, I refer you to table 2. Gencorp Industries. Yung outflow po, 1.9 billion. Yung inflow po, 1.06 billion. Mas malaki po yung outflow kesa sa inflow. Ibig sabihin, mas marami yung transaksyon na hindi na-cover or na-report bilang suspicious na pumasok dun sa account. ng korporasyon. Is that a safe inference? 1712 04:41:08,050 --> 04:41:09,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Inferring from your table. 1713 04:41:09,950 --> 04:41:50,730 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Kung this is my personal, ano lang po yun, I don't want to add an analysis na hindi po officially na gawa po namin. So, it would appear lang po na mas mataas po yung outflow kesa sa inflow. So, maari lang po, maari lang po na meron pong hindi Kung ang gusto po natin mapakita ay dapat equal po yung inflow or outflow, base po nalalabas lang dito sa pag-initial ko lang po natingin ay mas marami pong laman na hindi po namin, na hindi po nai-report. 1714 04:41:50,730 --> 04:41:51,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Na 1715 04:41:51,030 --> 04:41:55,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi po covered o hindi suspicious na pumasok sa account ng kumpanya. 1716 04:41:55,330 --> 04:41:56,270 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 1717 04:41:56,270 --> 04:42:01,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is that a fair inference in the realm of possibilities? 1718 04:42:02,530 --> 04:42:05,630 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, sir. But sa possibility lang po. So, it's my... 1719 04:42:05,630 --> 04:42:06,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Only 1720 04:42:06,790 --> 04:42:13,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: in the realm of possibilities, of course. Now, I refer you to table 3. 1721 04:42:18,210 --> 04:42:28,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 424 million and total combined na pumasok at lumabas. Tama po ba? 1722 04:42:28,710 --> 04:42:29,350 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 1723 04:42:29,430 --> 04:42:35,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pumasagat lumabas sa mga account ni Vice President Duterte at kanyang asawa na si Atty. Carpio. 1724 04:42:35,330 --> 04:42:38,310 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po. 424179536.1 1725 04:42:38,310 --> 04:42:38,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And 1726 04:42:38,450 --> 04:42:40,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this covers only the period 2022 to 2025. 1727 04:42:41,530 --> 04:42:42,690 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Tama po, Your Honor. 1728 04:42:44,330 --> 04:42:44,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir, 1729 04:42:47,170 --> 04:42:54,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: again, I tried to bring things in its absurd possibility to find out and test a hypothesis. 1730 04:42:56,490 --> 04:43:36,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In-add ko po yung SALN ng ikalawang Pangulo mula 2022, 23, 24, at 25. In-add. Hindi naman dapat in-add yun, di ba? Kasi iba-ibang taon naman yun eh. At kasama na yung deklarasyong na huli doon sa unang deklarasyon. It totaled 336 million. And change. Hindi pa rin umabot ng 424. Meaning to say, on the assumption na walang ginastos, walang ginastos mula sa lahat ng assets nila at lahat na dineposito sa banko, hindi pa rin naabot sa ganito kalaking halaga. 1731 04:43:38,630 --> 04:43:45,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa palagay at pananaw nyo, ulitin ko, in the realm of possibilities, what would explain this huge amount? 1732 04:43:47,690 --> 04:43:49,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Posible ba yung in and out? 1733 04:43:52,220 --> 04:43:57,880 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Hindi ko po masagot. Hindi ko po nakita yung sa SALN. Pero kung base lang po dun sa premise na binigay niyo po. 1734 04:43:57,980 --> 04:44:02,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Based on the premise that I give because it's an accurate depiction of the SALN for those four years. 1735 04:44:02,760 --> 04:44:13,780 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: So yung po kasing transaction as reported to us, they happened across the years, across the entire year po or years po. So hindi po siya... 1736 04:44:13,780 --> 04:44:39,930 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Four years. I mean ibig sabihin sa isang taon yung transaction po na to hindi naman po ginawa lang ng isang beses kundi spread din po as reported to us po. So kung ang pagkakaintindi ko po sa SALN kasi yung ending po yun sa December po. So kung yung asset po kasi hindi naman po siya yung transaction. 1737 04:44:39,930 --> 04:44:40,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi nga dapat 1738 04:44:40,270 --> 04:44:42,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: bilang yun diba pero binilang ko na nga eh. 1739 04:44:49,710 --> 04:44:50,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So 1740 04:44:50,310 --> 04:45:06,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi niyo po kayang paliwanag. You cannot explain how it reached 424 million. Assuming the presumption of this representation is correct with respect to her SALN. 1741 04:45:07,180 --> 04:45:11,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dun sa 1742 04:45:11,120 --> 04:45:13,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 4.4 billion, yun din ang katanungan ko. 1743 04:45:15,470 --> 04:45:20,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung 4.4 billion covering the period 2007 to 2025. 1744 04:45:22,190 --> 04:45:37,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, I bring it to its absurd point. We tried to add to all of the amounts in the combined SALNs for those covered period of 2007 to 2025. It totaled only 840 million. 1745 04:45:39,890 --> 04:45:45,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, as you said earlier, Atty. Ronel, kasama na nga dyan yung assets, di ba? Hindi na nga yung sa deposito lang sa banko, hindi nga lang yung cash eh. 1746 04:45:47,680 --> 04:46:00,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, you would need 5x at least, 5 times of the combined SALN from 07 to 2025 to be able to explain the huge amount of 4.4 billion in transactions. 1747 04:46:02,020 --> 04:46:16,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In the realm of possibilities again, can you explain how it could reach that amount knowing that the highest SALN in 2025 was at 98 million and the lowest SALN in 2007 was at 7 million? 1748 04:46:18,670 --> 04:46:19,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can you 1749 04:46:19,070 --> 04:46:19,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: explain 1750 04:46:19,450 --> 04:46:19,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it, sir? 1751 04:46:20,630 --> 04:46:27,070 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: I am unable to explain or answer that, Your Honor. Just based on the records, Your Honor. 1752 04:46:27,070 --> 04:46:27,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Alam 1753 04:46:27,470 --> 04:46:34,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ko po, but in the realm of possibilities, is there a possible explanation that can come to your mind as to how this can be? 1754 04:46:36,520 --> 04:46:37,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If you know? 1755 04:46:37,980 --> 04:46:43,440 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: No, Your Honor. On top of my head, Medyo nahihirapan din po ako. So 1756 04:46:43,440 --> 04:46:54,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi niyo rin po kayang paliwanan kung bakit umabot ng ganito ka apat? 4.4 billion yung amount. Based on the data I relayed to you on the SALN. 1757 04:46:56,190 --> 04:46:59,130 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yun po, hindi ko po masagot po, Your Honor. 1758 04:46:59,450 --> 04:47:10,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ang sweldo po ng ikalawang Pangulo, kada buwan ay 350,000. From 2022 to 2025, subalit 1759 04:47:11,880 --> 04:47:42,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ayon sa datos niyo, ang demand sa accounts nilang mag-asawa, sweldo lang po yung pinagbabasayan ko. Lilitan ko naman, again, to the opposite absurd. To the opposite absurd point, kaya niyo bang ipaliwanag kung paano pa rin nakarating ng 424 million ang kabuhang transaksyon sa loob ng 2022 to 2025 kung ang sweldo po, indeklaradong kitaw income, base sa sweldo lamang ay 350,000? 1760 04:47:43,430 --> 04:47:45,730 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Apologies po, Your Honor, I cannot explain. 1761 04:47:45,730 --> 04:47:45,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 1762 04:47:45,830 --> 04:47:46,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: cannot explain it as well? 1763 04:47:46,990 --> 04:47:48,390 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Yes, Your Honor. 1764 04:47:48,390 --> 04:47:59,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nothing further, Atty. Ronel. Thank you for your time. Are there any other questions? If there are none, nakaraos at nairaos din natin, Atty. Ronel. 1765 04:48:02,230 --> 04:48:35,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Salamat po sa inyong oras, sa inyong panahon, sa inyong pasensya, sa inyong patnubay at pagsagot sa katanungan ng mga Senator-Judges, gayon din ang magkabilang partido. At sa inyong mahabang pasensya sa loob ng dalawang araw, kayo na po yung record holder ng may pinakamahabang panahon na naupo sa witness stand po as of now. Hindi lamang sa impeachment trial na ito pero sa mga nakarang impeachment trials din. Hindi ko po sasabihin congratulations pero maraming salamat na lang po. You are excused sir. Thank you sir. 1766 04:48:35,810 --> 04:48:46,120 AMLC Executive Director Atty. Ronel U. Buenaventura: Maraming salamat din po sa Honorable Court at sa Defense and Prosecution. Naipalawanan ko naman po at least yung kung ano po yung mga dapat namin maipalawanag po. Marami pong salamat. 1767 04:48:46,950 --> 04:48:47,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, 1768 04:48:47,630 --> 04:48:48,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Ronel. 1769 04:48:51,630 --> 04:49:05,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, what is the pleasure of the lead prosecutor, the Hon. Luistro. I'm in receipt here of 20 names of witnesses for the various banks and insurance companies. 1770 04:49:07,430 --> 04:49:09,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is your pleasure, Hon. Luistro? 1771 04:49:09,890 --> 04:49:53,120 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, before we proceed to our next witness who will be representative of The First Bank, which is the land bank of the Philippines. I have a short manifestation with respect to the summaries which the prosecution received just today from the Bureau of Internal Revenue. We would like to confirm for the record, Your Honor, whether the defense as well as the Honorable Impeachment Court received the same summary, Your Honor. This pertains to the taxpayer's profile, incomes and taxes, Your Honor, because I understand that this will be presented and will take a significant part in the presentation of our BIR representative in the coming days, Your Honor. 1772 04:49:53,300 --> 04:50:05,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm only seeing it now, actually, so I confirm receipt just now. How about on the part of the respondent, Attorney Sheila? Do you confirm receipt of the summary? 1773 04:50:05,820 --> 04:50:20,420 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Unfortunately, Your Honor, I just refreshed my email and it doesn't seem that we have received this summary. But I'm not sure what summary this is. Is this a new summary being submitted? 1774 04:50:20,940 --> 04:50:23,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dated October 6 from the BIR. 1775 04:50:23,340 --> 04:50:27,200 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We haven't received it yet, Your Honor. 1776 04:50:27,340 --> 04:50:42,630 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: For the guidance of the defense, Your Honor, it is shown in the email we received that the BIR furnished copy as well to info. at nfslaw.com.ph which I believe is the email of the defense. 1777 04:50:42,630 --> 04:50:42,790 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May 1778 04:50:42,790 --> 04:50:45,470 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: I know the time? 1779 04:50:45,470 --> 04:50:50,030 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: This was received at 12.14pm 1780 04:50:50,030 --> 04:50:50,930 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: today. 1781 04:50:51,350 --> 04:50:59,570 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May I ask again, Your Honor, the email address that the lead prosecutor mentioned? 1782 04:50:59,910 --> 04:51:05,190 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: It's info at nfslaw. dot com dot ph. 1783 04:51:05,470 --> 04:51:14,510 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Then that settles it. We will not be able to receive that because that email address is wrong. It's not NFS. It should be FNS. 1784 04:51:14,510 --> 04:51:15,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To settle 1785 04:51:15,270 --> 04:51:29,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the issue, the chair is instructing the clerk of court to kindly furnish attorney Sheila with a copy now with a few hours of delay compared to the 1230 receipt. 1786 04:51:30,390 --> 04:51:43,910 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May we inquire as well, your honor, if it is appropriate for the prosecution to furnish today a copy of these summaries to the honorable senator judges so that they can browse, study... 1787 04:51:43,910 --> 04:51:45,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court will be the one to do 1788 04:51:45,050 --> 04:51:46,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that, honorable ministro. 1789 04:51:46,670 --> 04:51:47,130 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We 1790 04:51:47,130 --> 04:51:47,870 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: submit, your honor. 1791 04:51:48,290 --> 04:51:49,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: From our copy. 1792 04:51:51,350 --> 04:51:56,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can easily print one. But, attorney Sheila, you confirm receipt of a hard copy? 1793 04:51:57,070 --> 04:52:01,010 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. I confirm receipt of a document. 1794 04:52:01,010 --> 04:52:16,210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think you have time to go over it. With 20 witnesses. And after the banks and the insurance companies, that's only when the BAR will be presented. I don't even know when that will be. So, yes, Honorable Rizro, what else can we do for you? 1795 04:52:16,450 --> 04:52:19,370 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We are ready, Your Honor, for the presentation of our next witness. 1796 04:52:20,430 --> 04:52:22,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, who will handle the presentation of the next witness? 1797 04:52:23,230 --> 04:52:29,930 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: I am yielding right now, Your Honor, to the counsel for the prosecution panel, Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim Alih. 1798 04:52:33,390 --> 04:52:35,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Jay, would that be your nickname? 1799 04:52:35,310 --> 04:52:36,510 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Atty. James, Your Honor. 1800 04:52:36,510 --> 04:52:37,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: James, yes, of course. 1801 04:52:46,710 --> 04:52:54,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Does the respondent already have the sequence of the banks and the witnesses to be presented? Do you already have it? 1802 04:52:54,290 --> 04:52:54,850 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. 1803 04:52:55,370 --> 04:53:12,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, just to confirm, land bank will be first through witness Eunice and witness Raquel. Followed by AUB through Witness RC, Witness Edeli, and Witness Jerilee for the first time. Do you confirm, Atty. Sheila? 1804 04:53:12,760 --> 04:53:13,480 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. 1805 04:53:14,560 --> 04:53:16,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's see if you can reach that far today. 1806 04:53:19,950 --> 04:53:25,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Who will handle the side of the respondent for these witnesses, Atty. Sheila? 1807 04:53:25,810 --> 04:53:30,150 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: For the respondent, it's going to be Atty. Carlo Joaquin Narvasa, Your Honor. 1808 04:53:33,600 --> 04:53:50,280 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Good morning, good afternoon again, your honor. I beg again your kind indulgence. I am James Brian Ibrahim Ali, counsel for the prosecutors. Your honors, I have the tall task of presenting all the banks listed, your honor. 1809 04:53:50,280 --> 04:53:51,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: All 20? 1810 04:53:52,990 --> 04:53:54,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No, your honor. 1811 04:53:54,410 --> 04:53:56,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Only the banks, not the insurance companies? 1812 04:53:56,510 --> 04:53:58,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, your honor. I couldn't go that far, your honor. 1813 04:53:58,510 --> 04:54:01,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So you're talking only of all? 1814 04:54:01,890 --> 04:54:03,640 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Eight banks, your honor. 1815 04:54:03,640 --> 04:54:04,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: All 13 witnesses. 1816 04:54:05,640 --> 04:54:15,440 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. As discussed during the pre-conference a while ago, we reduced the number to 13 witnesses, Your Honor. 1817 04:54:15,560 --> 04:54:17,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Attorney CJ, it will be you for the respondent. 1818 04:54:18,040 --> 04:54:19,140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. Good afternoon. 1819 04:54:19,680 --> 04:54:23,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Good afternoon. Okay. Call your first witness, Attorney James. 1820 04:54:23,540 --> 04:54:23,920 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, 1821 04:54:23,960 --> 04:54:24,220 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 1822 04:54:30,350 --> 04:54:30,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 1823 04:54:30,830 --> 04:54:41,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Clerk of Court is instructed to bring Ms. Eunice Sumatra to the witness stand. Kindly assist her. and situate her in the witness stand. 1824 04:54:44,590 --> 04:54:57,430 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, we are calling to, well, upon arrival, we will be calling to the witness stand Ms. Eunice Sumatra, the manager of San Pedro Davao branch of Land Bank of the Philippines. 1825 04:54:58,390 --> 04:55:03,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the permission of Attorney CJ, can Attorney James already make his offer while we're waiting for the witness? 1826 04:55:04,310 --> 04:55:05,170 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Of course, Your Honor. 1827 04:55:05,430 --> 04:55:07,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed with your offer, Attorney James. 1828 04:55:07,630 --> 04:55:36,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. Before I proceed with my offer, Your Honor, in order to expedite the proceedings given the number of witnesses and the number of banks that we are about to present, we intend to present all the bank representatives today if possible. Hence, we will be adopting a common offer or purpose for all their testimonies. We may make additional purposes or specific offers at the proper time when we switch the witnesses, but we will have a basic 1829 04:55:39,260 --> 04:55:39,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So 1830 04:55:39,820 --> 04:55:48,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I guess the basic offer will apply to the first few witnesses and you will increase the offers or add to the offers as you go along? 1831 04:55:48,580 --> 04:56:00,340 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes that's correct your honor and that is also the reason why the order of our witnesses are like that. We will be working our way up to bigger and bigger transactions as we go along. 1832 04:56:00,930 --> 04:56:12,210 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may we request that the offers be repeated for each and every witnesses because it may be, the objections may be differing for each of them. 1833 04:56:12,310 --> 04:56:13,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For each witness. 1834 04:56:13,250 --> 04:56:13,870 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. 1835 04:56:13,870 --> 04:56:13,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And 1836 04:56:13,950 --> 04:56:18,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it's okay, it's okay. We can listen to the offers. It can be abbreviated as well by Attorney James. 1837 04:56:18,870 --> 04:56:19,170 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank 1838 04:56:19,170 --> 04:56:19,450 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: you, Your Honor. 1839 04:56:19,550 --> 04:56:19,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before 1840 04:56:19,990 --> 04:56:20,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we 1841 04:56:20,250 --> 04:56:33,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proceed with the offers, since the witness is already here, so that she can be seated. Miss Eunice, manumpa po muna kayo bago kayo mapo. Pakinggan niyo po iyong papanumpaan niyo at sumagot na lamang po kayo ng angkop sa dulo. 1842 04:56:35,980 --> 04:56:51,400 Atty. Marivic Laurel Garcia: Kindly raise your right hand. You, Eunice Sumatra, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. 1843 04:56:53,770 --> 04:56:56,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly answer through the mic, Ma'am Eunice. 1844 04:56:56,990 --> 04:56:57,970 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1845 04:56:58,230 --> 04:57:08,010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I request 1846 04:57:08,010 --> 04:57:11,650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: also for the exclusion of any other witness? 1847 04:57:12,070 --> 04:57:14,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are there any other witnesses in the gallery? 1848 04:57:16,170 --> 04:57:16,930 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. 1849 04:57:19,460 --> 04:57:21,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Meron the 1850 04:57:24,490 --> 04:57:27,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Clerk of Court through the OSA. Can you check? 1851 04:57:34,510 --> 04:57:37,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are all the witnesses in the holding room? 1852 04:57:38,830 --> 04:57:41,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are all the other witnesses in the holding room? 1853 04:57:43,180 --> 04:57:43,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, 1854 04:57:43,780 --> 04:57:50,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the clerk of court confirms that there are no other witnesses in the gallery. They are all in the holding room, Attorney CJ. You may proceed 1855 04:57:50,840 --> 04:57:52,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: with your offer, Attorney James. 1856 04:57:52,080 --> 04:59:24,240 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon again and good afternoon to our friends from the defense. Your Honor, we are offering this witness to prove the following purposes and I will proceed to the common offer or purposes as I have mentioned a while ago. First, that the witnesses are the duly authorized representatives of the land bank, particularly this one, but later on, Asian United Bank, PS Bank, Metro Bank, Security Bank, BPI, PNB, and BDO. Sila ang authorized representatives ng mga bangko. Kikilalaanin nila at papatunayan ng mga bank records na ang bangko mismo. ang nagsumite sa hukumang ito. Bilang pagsunod, syempre, sa sabbina. Second, the aforementioned entities submitted bank records of the Vice President Zimmerman Duterte, her husband, Atty. Manassas Carpio, and entities in which the spouses maintain business interests to the Honorable Impeachment Court. Number three, the Vice President, together with her husband, Personally maintains at least 30 active bank accounts across 8 banks among others just for the years 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025. Number 4, 1857 04:59:28,650 --> 04:59:57,760 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: based on the bank records, the Vice President and Atty. Carpio's bank accounts have the following total year-end balance for the years 2022, 2023, 2024, at 2025. For 2022, Your Honor, the ending balance of the Vice President and Attorney Carpio's bank accounts 1858 05:00:00,430 --> 05:01:04,550 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: is more than 59 million pesos. For 2023, the year-end balance of the Vice President and her husband, Atty. Carpio is more than 71 million pesos. In 2024, the year-end balance of the Vice President and her husband, Atty. Carpio is more than 22 million pesos. And in 2025, The ending balance of their bank accounts across eight banks is more than 35 million pesos. Number five, when taken together across the years 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025, the vice president and her husband Atony Carpio's bank accounts have a total ending balance of more than 190 million pesos that are not declared in her SALNs. 1859 05:01:07,410 --> 05:01:08,830 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Number 6. 1860 05:01:11,500 --> 05:01:36,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Lastly, to prove such other relevant allegations and to identify and authenticate relevant documents. Your Honors, if I may, mga numero lamang po ito. Hindi nagbabago ang mga numero dahil sa politika o sa paulit-ulit. na objection. Kung tama at nagtutugma ang lahat, wala namang dapat ikatakot. 1861 05:01:55,520 --> 05:01:56,540 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: May I proceed now, Your Honor? 1862 05:01:56,640 --> 05:02:02,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you may proceed. In fact, the Chair was going to make the same inquiry as well. Kindly proceed. 1863 05:02:02,420 --> 05:02:04,680 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Your Honor. This is just part of our six, Your Honor. 1864 05:02:06,690 --> 05:02:33,260 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Kung tama at nagtutugma ang lahat, wala namang dapat ikatakot. Ipakita lang ng buong-buo at hayaan ng mga dokumento at ebidensya ang magsalita. At kung hindi nagtutugma, hindi na kailangang manakot gamit ang prosekyusyon, media, or korte. Magpaliwanag na lamang. Yan po yung aming offer for today, Your Honor. A common offer for all the banks, Your Honor. Thank you for your graciousness. 1865 05:02:34,740 --> 05:02:36,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment, Atty. CJ. 1866 05:02:36,280 --> 05:02:36,900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, 1867 05:02:36,920 --> 05:03:51,070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. As to the third offer, Your Honor, as to 30 bank accounts across 8 banks, this offer is improper for this witness as an offer of testimony should be specific to the witness that is going to testify. This witness also would be incompetent as her knowledge would be confined to the Land Bank of the Philippines. As to the fifth, Your Honor, the supposed total of 190 million, this again is improper, Your Honor. This witness would only be competent and her knowledge be confined to the Land Bank of the Philippines. As for the sixth offer, Your Honor, as regards the numbers don't change, Your Honor, this is improper for an offer. No witness can prove that whatever that was, Your Honor. Your Honor, similarly, 1868 05:03:51,070 --> 05:03:52,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly continue. 1869 05:03:52,050 --> 05:04:41,780 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. And for the first and second and other offers, Your Honor, subject to cross, but we would also like to register our continuing objection to the inclusion examination and the presentation of Atty. Manassas Carpio's bank records. Your Honor, this is pursuant to Section 2 of Republic Act. 1405, which protects the confidentiality of bank deposits, subject, of course, to recognized exceptions. Although impeachment is expressly identified as an exception, Attorney Carpio is not the respondent being impeached, neither is he on trial. Again, Your Honor, we do not request for a ruling. We just wish that the Honorable Court 1870 05:04:43,510 --> 05:04:45,730 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Register our continuing objection. 1871 05:04:46,550 --> 05:05:11,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The continuing objection is duly noted and so registered. Allow the chair to make some comments as well. I believe Attorney James said it is a common offer when he gave the total of 30 bank accounts. However, many bank accounts Ms. Yunis will be testifying to will add up to 30, I guess. 1872 05:05:11,000 --> 05:05:11,500 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, sir. 1873 05:05:11,500 --> 05:05:11,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Correct? 1874 05:05:12,400 --> 05:05:15,120 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: That would have been my response, Your Honor, to the comment. Thank you. 1875 05:05:28,790 --> 05:05:32,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The ending balance is for 22, 23, 24, and 25. Correct? 1876 05:05:32,570 --> 05:05:32,730 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes. 1877 05:05:32,730 --> 05:05:34,210 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Allow me to clarify, Your Honor. 1878 05:05:34,290 --> 05:05:36,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please. Kindly elucidate. 1879 05:05:37,010 --> 05:05:51,390 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. The important part of that offer, Your Honor, is the last part. That is the qualification of the 190 million, which provides that it is not declared in the SALN. So that is a total not declared in the SALN. 1880 05:05:51,690 --> 05:05:52,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Cumulatively. 1881 05:05:52,410 --> 05:06:09,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Certainly, we're not trying to mislead by saying that that is the total amount. That's why the qualifier... At the last portion was important that the 190 million pertains to not declared in the SALN through the years of 2022, 2023, until 2025. 1882 05:06:12,060 --> 05:06:38,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I also did not catch the purpose of offer 6. Attorney CJ was kind enough to have allowed it. But since it's a common purpose, I guess Attorney CJ... To a certain degree, allow him to make that common offer then and not repeat it over and over again. So that the court need not roll on it over and over again because I will not allow it henceforth. 1883 05:06:39,960 --> 05:06:45,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So we will leave that as it is right now and we will leave it in the records. 1884 05:06:45,040 --> 05:06:45,280 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright, 1885 05:06:45,380 --> 05:06:45,680 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 1886 05:06:46,040 --> 05:06:49,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly weigh your options in regard to the offer because if it will be the same... 1887 05:06:51,440 --> 05:06:56,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You wouldn't want that repeated again, at least insofar as offer number 6 is concerned. Would that be correct? 1888 05:06:56,900 --> 05:06:58,460 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. 1889 05:06:59,020 --> 05:07:32,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, your witness. Subject to cross in regard to the other items of the offer. Your witness, Attorney James, but for the information of the body... The court would like to hear the presiding officer specifically how you will present this witness and will make the corresponding rulings as may be necessary to abbreviate the proceedings given that there are 20 witnesses testifying on basically almost the same thing with varying accounts and with varying bank names. So we will first hear out how this goes and see. What we need to do thereafter. 1890 05:07:33,250 --> 05:07:33,970 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 1891 05:07:33,970 --> 05:07:35,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Atty. James. 1892 05:07:35,070 --> 05:07:44,870 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Your Honor. And we have some ways also that we have in mind. Hopefully, in the proceedings, we will be able to also show it. Your Honor, with your kind permission. Good afternoon, sir. 1893 05:07:45,330 --> 05:07:46,150 Eunice C. Sumatra: Good afternoon. 1894 05:07:47,030 --> 05:07:55,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, for the record, would you mind telling us your full name and your designation and which bank are you representing? 1895 05:07:55,930 --> 05:08:05,420 Eunice C. Sumatra: Good afternoon, Your Honor. My name is Eunice Sumatra. I'm the branch head of Land Bank San Pedro Davao branch. 1896 05:08:05,900 --> 05:08:16,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. And briefly, as bank head of Land Bank San Pedro Davao, what are your primary functions and responsibilities? 1897 05:08:16,860 --> 05:08:48,510 Eunice C. Sumatra: As branch head, I oversee the operation of the branch. But most of my responsibility would be marketing in nature because I have my branch operations officer who will directly involve in the day-to-day operation of the branch. And also as a branch manager, I see to it that all the procedures are properly executed and the internal control is observed. 1898 05:08:49,440 --> 05:09:00,180 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Before moving forward madam witness if you're comfortable with tagalog or english you may do so or you can mix them also so as long as you can freely express yourself okay 1899 05:09:00,180 --> 05:09:00,700 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: thank 1900 05:09:00,700 --> 05:09:28,930 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: you madam witness the honorable court issued a subpoena dated july 21 2026 addressed to lan bank direct directing it to submit certified true copies of bank records owned by the Vice President Atty. Carpio and or entities in which the spouses have business interests. Insofar as your branch is concerned, do you confirm receiving this subpoena? 1901 05:09:30,100 --> 05:09:31,200 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1902 05:09:31,440 --> 05:09:35,780 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And what actions have you taken in response to the subpoena? 1903 05:09:36,340 --> 05:09:49,530 Eunice C. Sumatra: We gathered the transaction documents and have it authenticated by me. and submit it to our head office for submission here, Your Honor. 1904 05:09:49,570 --> 05:09:51,890 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. And the same has been submitted to the Senate? 1905 05:09:52,070 --> 05:09:52,910 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1906 05:09:53,030 --> 05:10:06,990 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. Do you confirm, Mr. Witness, that the documents you mentioned that you authenticated insofar as your branch is concerned, these are all copies of authentic bank records? 1907 05:10:07,250 --> 05:10:08,030 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1908 05:10:08,430 --> 05:10:10,490 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Well, and so far as your branch is concerned, right? 1909 05:10:10,490 --> 05:10:10,750 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, 1910 05:10:10,790 --> 05:10:11,150 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor. 1911 05:10:11,230 --> 05:11:16,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. Your Honor, with the confirmation of the witness that the documents directly submitted to the Honorable Court are authentic bank records, we hope to dispense with asking the witness to go through every document simply to confirm that these are the same documents that the bank submitted. We ground this on two points, Your Honor, if I may. The bank records, first is that the bank records were produced Pursuant to a subpoena and were directly submitted to the Honorable Impeachment Court, not to the prosecution. Similar to how the AMLC documents were presented yesterday and were treated. Second, and equally important, these are common exhibits of the parties. Given these two reasons, Your Honor, we respectfully submit that there is no need to ask the witness to go through each document Nearly to confirm what is not a genuine issue to begin with. And we can ask the more significant questions, Your Honor. 1912 05:11:18,150 --> 05:11:19,170 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, FMA. 1913 05:11:19,170 --> 05:11:19,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney CJ? 1914 05:11:20,190 --> 05:12:51,050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, there is proper procedure as regards the identification and authentication of documents. We may have questions regarding specific documents that she may have brought. and your honor as regards common exhibits the designation of documents as common exhibits that not does not compel the defense to agree to any this is actually a stipulation uh veiled veiled stipulation your honor common marking does not by itself constitute an admission or us agreeing to any stipulation on authenticity and identification An acceptance of the truth of these entries or waiver of any objections to admissibility or evidentiary purposes. Your Honor, as regards the subpoena, Your Honor, production pursuant to subpoena does not by that circumstance alone equate to any identification or authentication. Any document can be subpoenaed. That does not mean it is genuine. That does not mean that the party Who is here is the proper party to identify, authenticate, or even explain what those documents are. So I urge the honorable court to follow the procedure laid out for authentication and identification. 1915 05:12:51,050 --> 05:12:51,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 1916 05:12:51,350 --> 05:12:55,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: court will take it at this point in advisement. 1917 05:12:57,430 --> 05:13:25,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's hear out, let's see how you will do it, Attorney James, with respect to authenticating these bank records. Again, as the court said earlier, we'll see how this pans out and we will make the corresponding adjustments in the subsequent witnesses as we go along. But for the meantime, we will take an advisement, your motion, and the corresponding objection thereto and or counter-manifestation of Attorney CJ, and we'll make the corresponding ruling as soon as we can as we go along. 1918 05:13:26,750 --> 05:13:28,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, if 1919 05:13:28,190 --> 05:13:50,550 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I may just add, perhaps to also assist the Honorable Court in that discussion, Your Honor. Insofar as the first issue of the Counsel for the Defense that they will not be allowed to question the authenticity or the documents themselves, I think that is the proper office of the cross-examination and time and again, they have been very... 1920 05:13:52,780 --> 05:14:21,680 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: lenient in exhausting that privilege in cross-examining. So that's not something that can be an issue at a later time. Secondly, Your Honor, this is not without precedent. I don't have to go back to previous trials. I can only go back to yesterday when the AMLC was, the authentication of the AMLC was dispensed with and if I remember it correctly, the Honorable Presiding Officer has mentioned the two conditions that I've mentioned. But again, Your Honor, I'm not expecting a ruling from the Honorable Court. 1921 05:14:23,740 --> 05:14:28,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just to distinguish 1922 05:14:28,000 --> 05:14:42,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and to enrich the records, it's quite different because insofar as the MLC and BAR records are concerned, these are public documents. These are private documents. Again, we will take it in advisement. Let's see how this will pan out. Attorney James? 1923 05:14:42,800 --> 05:14:45,600 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Sorry, Your Honor. May I just add last, just briefly, I forgot one more. 1924 05:14:45,600 --> 05:14:46,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please. 1925 05:14:46,580 --> 05:15:13,340 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: In relation to the common exhibits, Your Honor, this is not merely just a common exhibit. Remember that the documents are certified through copies and insofar as the people involved in the markings are concerned, we did not hear any objection as to whether or not these are certified or not. So these are certified through copies, there were no objections during the marking and these were also marked by the defense. So that will be all, Your Honor. 1926 05:15:13,440 --> 05:15:16,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anything for us, Attorney CJ? Yes, please. 1927 05:15:16,720 --> 05:15:18,880 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, the fact 1928 05:15:21,750 --> 05:15:36,430 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Certified true copy is irrelevant, Your Honor. The fact that it is a common exhibit does not mean that we will use these documents. They are the ones introducing it to this trial and that does preclude us from objecting to these. 1929 05:15:38,770 --> 05:15:39,930 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, may we proceed? 1930 05:15:40,770 --> 05:15:42,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted, Attorney CJ. 1931 05:15:42,250 --> 05:15:42,670 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Your Honor. 1932 05:15:42,670 --> 05:15:47,760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, we take everything in advisement at this point in time. I'm kindly proceed with your direct attorney, James. 1933 05:15:48,020 --> 05:16:03,880 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, at this point, I will be candid because I was only intending to present this witness to authenticate the documents and I would have dispensed her presence here today, Your Honor, in order to save the honorable court some time, Your Honor. I would proceed with other witnesses that would provide more substantial witnesses. 1934 05:16:03,880 --> 05:16:04,040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 1935 05:16:04,040 --> 05:16:07,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: documents would she have authenticated, counsel? 1936 05:16:07,380 --> 05:16:33,610 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: He would have authenticated, Your Honor, for the record, P-Roman numeral 2-8. dash 3 dash 1 dash C dash LBP that is representing land bank of the Philippines your honor for account number 14770989 98 in the name of Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 1937 05:16:35,340 --> 05:16:37,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Only one account, counsel? 1938 05:16:41,150 --> 05:16:46,930 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And a moment your honor. 1939 05:16:52,890 --> 05:16:53,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Just 1940 05:16:53,330 --> 05:17:01,090 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: for this witness, your honor, only one account, your honor. And that was the purpose of my manifestation a while ago. Apologies, your honor. 1941 05:17:02,030 --> 05:17:08,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, I see two documents here. 1942 05:17:11,090 --> 05:17:15,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, I see two documents here. One, this is for land bank, right? 1943 05:17:15,910 --> 05:17:16,830 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, your honor. 1944 05:17:16,830 --> 05:17:19,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For San Pedro branch. 1945 05:17:19,830 --> 05:17:21,050 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: San Pedro branch. 1946 05:17:25,900 --> 05:17:35,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For land bank, there's one account in the name of the vice president, there's one account in the name of attorney Carpio, correct? 1947 05:17:36,590 --> 05:17:42,790 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I think the attorney Carpio's account, your honor, is with a different branch, your honor. 1948 05:17:42,890 --> 05:17:47,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, so again, the two accounts refer to the two land bank witnesses, one each. 1949 05:17:47,910 --> 05:17:48,730 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: One each, your honor. 1950 05:17:49,320 --> 05:17:49,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Why don't you 1951 05:17:49,960 --> 05:17:52,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proceed, counsel? Let's see what's 1952 05:17:52,140 --> 05:17:52,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: in that bank account. 1953 05:17:53,580 --> 05:18:02,180 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Gladly, your honor. But at this point, your honor, may I ask the secretariat if the documents are already here, your honor, so that I can confront the witness. 1954 05:18:02,900 --> 05:18:04,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly furnish. 1955 05:18:08,710 --> 05:18:10,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's with you already, according to the clerk of court. 1956 05:18:10,850 --> 05:18:14,370 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, your honor. In that case, your honor, may I ask our assisting counsel. 1957 05:18:16,830 --> 05:18:17,450 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Assisting 1958 05:18:17,450 --> 05:18:18,070 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: counsels from 1959 05:18:18,070 --> 05:18:31,010 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: both sides to assist and confront the witness with documents supposedly submitted by their branch to the Honorable Court. Madam Witness, kindly go over this series of documents. 1960 05:18:31,690 --> 05:18:38,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting counsels from both sides are granted continuing authority to approach the witness in the course of her testimony. 1961 05:18:39,310 --> 05:18:45,230 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, go over this and let us know once you're finished going over this. 1962 05:18:50,210 --> 05:18:50,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, 1963 05:18:50,810 --> 05:18:51,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. CJ? 1964 05:18:52,990 --> 05:18:59,290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I object to this? There's no foundation to what he just asked and did. 1965 05:19:01,110 --> 05:19:03,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, you are actually correct, Atty. CJ. 1966 05:19:03,750 --> 05:19:04,010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. 1967 05:19:04,010 --> 05:19:10,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He jumped like a whole set of questions that should have properly... Again, 1968 05:19:10,920 --> 05:19:16,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: let us go through the process, Atty. James. Forgive me. Thank you for pointing it out, Atty. CJ. 1969 05:19:16,940 --> 05:19:17,200 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, 1970 05:19:17,240 --> 05:19:17,360 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 1971 05:19:18,070 --> 05:19:21,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's go through the process of identification to see how cumbersome 1972 05:19:21,420 --> 05:19:23,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and 1973 05:19:23,260 --> 05:19:27,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: difficult and painful the process will be. 1974 05:19:27,860 --> 05:19:40,860 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I hope you don't fault me, Your Honor, for trying to abbreviate the proceedings. Madam Witness, do you recall submitting the documents as mentioned in the subpoena? The one that you mentioned a while ago? 1975 05:19:41,180 --> 05:19:42,020 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1976 05:19:42,060 --> 05:19:46,130 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And if these documents were shown to you? Would you be able to identify this? 1977 05:19:46,410 --> 05:19:47,050 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 1978 05:19:47,330 --> 05:20:07,670 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, our assisting counsel now is showing you documents coming from the court, referring to documents sourced from land bank San Pedro Branch. Can you kindly read over them? And check if these are the documents that you submitted to the Honorable Court. 1979 05:20:08,150 --> 05:20:25,120 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. These are, again, improper procedurally. These documents cannot be lumped together. These documents are very specific and this is improper procedurally under the rules of evidence. 1980 05:20:42,930 --> 05:20:43,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is 1981 05:20:43,410 --> 05:20:43,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that correct? 1982 05:20:44,070 --> 05:20:46,770 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: As well, Your Honor, as the title or the designation 1983 05:20:46,770 --> 05:20:47,270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: of the document. 1984 05:20:47,270 --> 05:20:48,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Consisting of 21 pages. 1985 05:20:48,910 --> 05:20:49,490 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, 1986 05:20:49,510 --> 05:20:55,850 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. P-Roman numeral 2-8-3-2-1-3-LBP. 1987 05:20:56,190 --> 05:20:58,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, consisting of 21 pages. 1988 05:20:58,550 --> 05:20:58,750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, 1989 05:20:58,770 --> 05:20:58,910 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your 1990 05:20:58,910 --> 05:21:07,630 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor. So there, Your Honor, there lacks a foundation. The Counsel is just supplying all of these to the witness. 1991 05:21:07,990 --> 05:21:10,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll consider it preliminary to... 1992 05:21:14,270 --> 05:21:15,470 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: May I just add 1993 05:21:15,470 --> 05:22:34,130 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: your honor because this will involve eight banks and we want to set the tone right from the start. This is not a court where we have to authenticate each and everything. Yes, it's an impeachment court. We have to respect it. We have to respect the process. But we cannot go to the same rigors simply because That is the rules of court. That is provided in the rules of court. And that is only suppletorily applied here. At the end of the day, Your Honor, I think that the rules of court should be used in order to expedite, in order to not delay, which we've seen for several times now. So I think that to cling to technicalities on matter that are not even genuinely in issue is counterproductive to the defense, to the prosecution, and I'm sure to the members of the honorable court so I just would like to put that on record at the onset because we will be talking about eight banks your honor 14 witnesses if I'm going to present this your honor as if I'm presenting it in court and trust me I've done and handled a lot of bank cases so I hope you understand where I'm coming from your honor and I hope the members of the court would understand where I'm coming from This is not a genuine issue to begin with. 1994 05:22:34,130 --> 05:22:34,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 1995 05:22:34,250 --> 05:23:05,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: presiding officer is well familiar of the procedure that needs to be undertaken in order to comply with the rules, having done that also in the past. But as the presiding officer said earlier, I would rather that we go through this long, arduous, or whatever adjective you want to say, painful process, at least for this witness, for the impeachment court and the members of the court to be able to See and appreciate and decide for themselves after this witness. Attorney CJ, you want to make a countermanifestation? 1996 05:23:05,200 --> 05:23:05,640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. 1997 05:23:05,860 --> 05:24:09,570 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The rules are there for a reason. The rules are there so that documents can be appreciated as what they are. Your Honor, and when a proper objection arises as regards any... problem or any question regarding these documents it should not be lumped together and this your honor is not procedural this is substantive this goes into the due process rights of my client who is the respondent accused this is a trial which will go into whether she will be acquitted or held guilty for The accusations of the prosecution. And the prosecution should focus on identifying and authenticating their documents and not rush. We are not rushing, Your Honor. That is the point. They should properly do their job according to the rules. 1998 05:24:11,930 --> 05:24:12,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are 1999 05:24:12,530 --> 05:24:13,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you done, Attorney CJ? 2000 05:24:13,530 --> 05:24:14,490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. 2001 05:24:14,490 --> 05:24:28,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, Atty. James, kindly proceed accordingly. Let's let the members of the court experience, as you said, how we usually do it in court. Atty. Senator Judge Lacson is recognized. What is your pleasure, sir? 2002 05:24:29,060 --> 05:24:39,460 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you, Mr. President Officer. Ito, land bank of the Philippines. In all likelihood, sweldo po ito. Now, I did some addition, ano? Nag-arithmetik ako. 2003 05:24:39,940 --> 05:24:40,420 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Four 2004 05:24:40,420 --> 05:24:49,990 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: years ito. Ito ba yung 98998? Account number? Sorry, Your Honor. Yung last digits niya, 8998? 2005 05:24:50,870 --> 05:24:51,690 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: 8998, Yes, 2006 05:24:51,710 --> 05:24:52,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 2007 05:24:52,190 --> 05:25:13,090 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Inad ko po yung 4 years, umabot na mahigit 4 million. Dinibet ko sa 48 months, 102,000 per month. Magkano ba sweldo ng Vice President? 300 plus? Gumastos pa siya, eto na iwan. Ang point ko lang, Mr., ang haba ng diskusyon eh. E sweldo ng Vice President, may guusapan natin siguro? 2008 05:25:13,840 --> 05:25:22,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the record, the salary of a vice president is, given the salary grade, is anywhere between 330,000 to 350,000 per month. 2009 05:25:22,060 --> 05:25:23,880 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pag kinumpit ko nga po itong apat na 2010 05:25:23,880 --> 05:25:25,780 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: taon, 102,000 a month lang eh. 2011 05:25:28,650 --> 05:25:34,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think they're starting from the lowest to the biggest, Senator Judge Lacson. That's why this would 2012 05:25:34,030 --> 05:25:34,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: be the 2013 05:25:34,330 --> 05:25:34,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: lowest. 2014 05:25:34,750 --> 05:26:00,430 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pardon me, counselor. Kung ang point lang is baka mabawasan ng 4 million yung inyong adisyon, e naintindihan naman namin na pag land bank sweldo. Automatic gaya ang pamapasok eh. Baka naman pwedeng bawas-bawasan natin yung araw ng ating pagdinig. Ang ditinggi natin, labing tatlo. Eh isa pa lang, land bang pa lang eh. Anong oras na tayo? Just a suggestion, Mr. President Officer. 2015 05:26:02,720 --> 05:26:03,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 2016 05:26:03,300 --> 05:26:04,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is your pleasure, Attorney James? 2017 05:26:05,120 --> 05:26:49,950 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, I understand fully the Honorable Lacson. That's why precisely, Your Honor, hindi ko nga po balak sanong magtanong dito sa witness. Gusto ko lang pong ipasok na po yung dokumento kasi meron naman po kaming witness later on na magtatahi lahat ng ito through our financial analyst. That's why po kanina ang dami ko pong attempts para po hindi na tayo matali. Sa procedural na diskusyon na hindi naman talaga nag-a-apply strictly sa... So I apologize for my attempt, Your Honor, because the only reason why I'm presenting the land bank representative of San Pedro is to authenticate this, put it in record, and then I will have moved on to my next witness, Your Honor. So I hope you understand, Honorable Lacson. 2018 05:26:50,450 --> 05:26:51,230 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I beg your 2019 05:26:51,230 --> 05:26:55,350 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: indulgence as well of the Honorable Lacson. 2020 05:26:55,350 --> 05:27:35,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As the chair suggested earlier to attorney James, it might be the fault of the presiding officer for us to go through the process with this particular witness so that we get to see exactly how arduous the process is and will be for us to be able to make adjustments accordingly should it be necessary. So, I recognize the objections being raised by Atty. CJ as well. They are well-founded. However, Atty. James, again, proceed as you have done so in the past as you stated with this witness. And we will try to be patient as well. 2021 05:27:35,240 --> 05:27:36,180 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I'm sorry, Your Honor. 2022 05:27:36,700 --> 05:27:39,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, kindly proceed accordingly, Atty. James. 2023 05:27:39,660 --> 05:27:47,720 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, nabanggit niyo po kanina na meron kayo mga sinubmit na dokumento sa Honorable Court. Ano-ano po ba yung mga dokumentong ito? Kung naalala niyo po. 2024 05:27:49,030 --> 05:27:53,530 Eunice C. Sumatra: The movement of the peril account of the vice president. 2025 05:27:53,850 --> 05:27:57,090 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Ano pong tawag sa dokumento na iyon? Movement of payroll account? 2026 05:27:57,590 --> 05:28:03,010 Eunice C. Sumatra: It's the debit and the credit, your honor. 2027 05:28:03,330 --> 05:28:03,670 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay. 2028 05:28:03,850 --> 05:28:09,690 Eunice C. Sumatra: And it's also indicated what particular branch who facilitated that transaction. 2029 05:28:10,310 --> 05:28:12,290 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay. Ano pa po ang sinubmit ninyo? 2030 05:28:12,630 --> 05:28:15,210 Eunice C. Sumatra: We also submitted the 2031 05:28:16,730 --> 05:28:22,750 Eunice C. Sumatra: Withdrawal slips, the transactions of the vice president done over the counter, your honor. 2032 05:28:23,800 --> 05:28:25,380 Eunice C. Sumatra: And we 2033 05:28:25,380 --> 05:28:31,420 Eunice C. Sumatra: also submitted outstanding balances year on year, your honor. 2034 05:28:32,040 --> 05:28:43,600 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay, so there are three documents or at least categories of documents. So there is the movement of payroll, Withdrawal slips and outstanding again, what was that? 2035 05:28:43,720 --> 05:28:44,860 Eunice C. Sumatra: Outstanding balances. 2036 05:28:45,540 --> 05:28:46,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Outstanding balances. 2037 05:28:47,240 --> 05:28:49,700 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yeah, it's certificate of outstanding balances. 2038 05:28:50,100 --> 05:29:02,250 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Certificate of outstanding balances. Okay. And, um, say for example this movement of payroll if this is shown to you would you be able to identify this 2039 05:29:02,250 --> 05:29:02,850 Eunice C. Sumatra: yes 2040 05:29:02,850 --> 05:29:03,410 Eunice C. Sumatra: your honor 2041 05:29:03,410 --> 05:29:03,870 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: okay 2042 05:29:13,090 --> 05:29:15,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ma 2043 05:29:15,780 --> 05:29:18,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'am Eunice this is for the period covering 2044 05:29:20,890 --> 05:29:23,470 Eunice C. Sumatra: 2017 to 2025, your honor. 2045 05:29:26,600 --> 05:29:30,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly identify the document if that is the same document you were referring to earlier. 2046 05:29:30,960 --> 05:29:42,380 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Before that, madam witness, before you identify, sorry. Madam witness, ma'am, sorry. Ilan po yung bank accounts ng ating vice president sa branch po ninyo? 2047 05:29:42,620 --> 05:29:46,460 Eunice C. Sumatra: With San Pedro de Val branch, we only have one payroll account. 2048 05:29:46,820 --> 05:29:59,890 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And yung one payroll account na yun, yung mga documents na binanggit nyo, yung tatlong klase. Movement of payroll, withdrawal slips, and certificate of astounding balances correspond to that account. Is that correct? 2049 05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:00,780 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright, 2050 05:30:01,340 --> 05:30:09,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: so you may now proceed to check kung yung movement of payroll ba na binabanggit niyo, na sinabit niya sa atin, ayan din ang nandyan. 2051 05:30:46,440 --> 05:30:53,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Defense marking D, Roman numeral number 2, dash 8, dash 3, dash 2, dash 1, dash 3, LBP as well. 2052 05:30:54,170 --> 05:30:55,390 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you again, Your Honor. 2053 05:31:07,530 --> 05:31:13,910 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: For the record, Your Honor, the witness is intently perusing the documents as instructed, Your Honor. 2054 05:31:14,170 --> 05:31:14,510 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam 2055 05:31:49,390 --> 05:31:51,230 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Witness, have you perused that document? 2056 05:31:51,230 --> 05:31:51,550 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, 2057 05:31:51,550 --> 05:31:51,930 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor. 2058 05:31:51,930 --> 05:32:01,770 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: So, what is the relation of those documents, movement of payroll, to the one that you mentioned you submitted to Donorable Court? 2059 05:32:02,270 --> 05:32:04,910 Eunice C. Sumatra: That was the document, Your Honor. 2060 05:32:05,150 --> 05:32:17,730 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And in the documents, I would have wanted to approach the witness, Your Honor, but my microphone is not working. In the document, Madam Witness, there is a certification. 2061 05:32:19,270 --> 05:32:30,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: The assisting counsel can confront the witness with the certification contained in the lower portion, Your Honor. 2062 05:33:05,590 --> 05:33:20,250 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: In the lower portion, rightmost portion of this document that you've identified, there is a signature about the name of AVP Eunice Sumatra. Whose signature is this? 2063 05:33:21,350 --> 05:33:23,450 Eunice C. Sumatra: That is my signature, your honor. 2064 05:33:23,710 --> 05:33:31,730 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And do you confirm madam witness that in all the pages of This document, the same signature appears. 2065 05:33:32,150 --> 05:33:38,430 Eunice C. Sumatra: I confirm that in all of the 21 pages, it's the same signature. It's my signature, Your Honor. 2066 05:33:38,770 --> 05:34:06,960 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And I was about to ask whose signature is this, but you've already mentioned that it's your signature. Alright. For the record, Your Honor, the document that was identified by the witness is previously marked as Exhibit P-2-8-3-1-3- Sorry. P Roman numeral 2-8-3-2-1-3-LBP 2067 05:34:09,260 --> 05:34:15,000 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: consisting of 21 pages and 2068 05:34:16,660 --> 05:34:51,200 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: for the record it is also commonly marked by the defense as P-2 Roman numeral 2 D-R2-8-3-2-1-3-LDP for the same number of pages. Now, Madam Witness, I am showing you now the withdrawal slips that you've mentioned, that 2069 05:34:52,960 --> 05:34:57,800 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: you submitted to the court. Kindly go over these withdrawal slips if you can, please. 2070 05:36:58,900 --> 05:36:59,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 2071 05:36:59,480 --> 05:37:00,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was the question? 2072 05:37:00,720 --> 05:37:08,580 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I was just asking the witness to go through the withdrawal slips. I am under the process of authenticating the same, your honor. 2073 05:37:10,410 --> 05:37:16,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And this is just, hasn't she already authenticated the entire exhibit? 2074 05:37:16,110 --> 05:37:17,710 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No, Your Honor, that was just 2075 05:37:17,710 --> 05:37:24,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: for the movement payroll, Your Honor. 2076 05:37:24,980 --> 05:37:27,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, so this is for the withdrawal slips 2077 05:37:27,880 --> 05:37:28,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and 2078 05:37:28,360 --> 05:37:32,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: then the third would be the maintaining balances or outstanding balances. 2079 05:37:32,520 --> 05:37:32,980 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2080 05:37:40,420 --> 05:37:40,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But 2081 05:37:40,900 --> 05:37:44,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this is still part of the 21 pages, correct? 2082 05:37:45,440 --> 05:37:57,560 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I do not think so, Your Honor. I think the 21 pages only pertains to the movement, the movement payroll, Your Honor. 2083 05:37:57,960 --> 05:37:59,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The payroll? Just the payroll? 2084 05:37:59,920 --> 05:38:00,080 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, 2085 05:38:00,080 --> 05:38:00,540 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 2086 05:38:00,540 --> 05:38:07,240 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, upon perusal of the documents, Your Honor, these are not all withdrawal slips, Your Honor. 2087 05:38:09,850 --> 05:38:25,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which one? Now the chair is confused. You only have one marking consisting of 21 pages for this witness. Are you telling me there's another separate pre-marked document for withdrawals? 2088 05:38:26,240 --> 05:38:46,860 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No, the 21 pages that was identified a while ago. which the witness confirmed was only pertaining to the payroll. Right now, Your Honor, the witness was perusing a series of documents for withdrawal slips, Your Honor. 2089 05:38:47,200 --> 05:38:51,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As Attorney CJ said, it's not all withdrawals. Attorney CJ? 2090 05:38:51,520 --> 05:38:51,800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, 2091 05:38:51,800 --> 05:38:52,240 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, correct. 2092 05:38:52,600 --> 05:38:55,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So what would be included aside from withdrawals in that document? 2093 05:38:55,540 --> 05:38:58,640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, there are withdrawal slips, check deposit slips, 2094 05:39:00,180 --> 05:39:05,720 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: A painted order document and the like, Your Honor. 2095 05:39:07,820 --> 05:39:09,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, not just withdrawal slips? 2096 05:39:09,600 --> 05:39:15,800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. So, we object to the question for being misleading, Your Honor. 2097 05:39:17,650 --> 05:39:20,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It was based on the witnesses' answer earlier. 2098 05:39:20,230 --> 05:39:22,390 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. That was about to respond. 2099 05:39:22,390 --> 05:39:26,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Eunice, ba't hindi lang po withdrawal ang laman nito tulad ng sinabi niyo kanina? 2100 05:39:26,590 --> 05:39:33,490 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor, my apologies po. Meron po kaming nasamang check deposit slips, Your Honor. 2101 05:39:34,640 --> 05:39:35,620 Eunice C. Sumatra: That was 2102 05:39:35,620 --> 05:39:40,440 Eunice C. Sumatra: submitted also to this honorable court, Your Honor. 2103 05:39:40,640 --> 05:39:42,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That was also submitted? 2104 05:39:42,020 --> 05:39:42,500 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes. 2105 05:39:42,500 --> 05:39:45,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In the general category of withdrawals? 2106 05:39:47,710 --> 05:39:50,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tatlo lang po kasi binanggit niyo kanina eh. Payroll, 2107 05:39:50,390 --> 05:39:50,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: withdrawal, 2108 05:39:50,970 --> 05:39:51,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and 2109 05:39:51,090 --> 05:39:51,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: outstanding 2110 05:39:51,370 --> 05:39:51,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: balances. 2111 05:39:51,950 --> 05:39:54,270 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yeah, I forgot, Your Honor. 2112 05:39:54,910 --> 05:40:00,950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Precisely, Your Honor, then now the introduction of these documents would lack foundation. 2113 05:40:00,950 --> 05:40:02,150 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Not really, Your Honor. 2114 05:40:02,150 --> 05:40:11,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So kindly, kindly correct, allow me, counsels. So kindly clarify, Attorney, Ma'am Eunice, yung naunan niyo po identify ay payroll, 2115 05:40:11,910 --> 05:40:12,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ito mong 2116 05:40:12,490 --> 05:40:13,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pangalawa 2117 05:40:13,450 --> 05:40:13,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ay 2118 05:40:13,770 --> 05:40:15,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: withdrawals and what else? 2119 05:40:15,770 --> 05:40:21,750 Eunice C. Sumatra: On us check deposits, Your Honor, the deposit slip and the image of the cheque, Your Honor. 2120 05:40:21,750 --> 05:40:22,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 2121 05:40:22,010 --> 05:40:22,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: cheque? 2122 05:40:22,750 --> 05:40:24,290 Eunice C. Sumatra: The on us cheque, Your Honor. 2123 05:40:24,670 --> 05:40:26,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What does on us? 2124 05:40:26,130 --> 05:40:29,730 Eunice C. Sumatra: The cheque that was deposited, Your Honor. 2125 05:40:30,050 --> 05:40:34,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Ano pa po ang kasama nung kategoryang iyan? 2126 05:40:34,630 --> 05:40:35,730 Eunice C. Sumatra: Iyan po, Your Honor. 2127 05:40:36,010 --> 05:40:36,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Iyan na yan? 2128 05:40:36,370 --> 05:40:37,010 Eunice C. Sumatra: Apo. 2129 05:40:37,010 --> 05:40:37,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 2130 05:40:49,970 --> 05:40:50,490 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: So 2131 05:40:50,490 --> 05:41:05,890 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, dun po sa mga nabanggit ninyo, ano po yung relasyon, dun sa na-identify po ninyo, ano po yung relasyon yan sa mga documents or withdrawal slips and yung nabanggit nyo pang ibang documents na sinubmit nyo sa court na to? 2132 05:41:07,820 --> 05:41:10,620 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: What is the relation of those documents that you've just identified? 2133 05:41:10,880 --> 05:41:15,540 Eunice C. Sumatra: Those documents substantiate the movement of the account. 2134 05:41:16,180 --> 05:41:17,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Ano? What I mean is that... 2135 05:41:17,820 --> 05:41:21,940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, your honor. She already answered the question. 2136 05:41:21,940 --> 05:41:22,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's the 2137 05:41:22,280 --> 05:41:24,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer of the witness. Ask another question, counsel. 2138 05:41:24,980 --> 05:41:37,080 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. So doon po, as namin nyo kanina... Okay, thank you, your honor. Diyan po sa mga documents na yan, meron pong withdrawal slips, meron pong checks, unasked checks. 2139 05:41:40,670 --> 05:41:58,630 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: At nabanggit po ninyo na yan yung mga sinubmit ninyo. Tama po ba? Napansin ko din po dun sa mga dokumentong yan, meron po sa baba na certified copy na nakasulat. At meron pong pirma sa taas ng pangalan. Ano po yung pangalan na nakasulat doon? 2140 05:41:58,790 --> 05:42:00,690 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. Asked and answered. 2141 05:42:00,690 --> 05:42:02,790 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I haven't asked that question, Your Honor. 2142 05:42:03,130 --> 05:42:06,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is for a different document that we understand, Attorney CJ. 2143 05:42:06,780 --> 05:42:11,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: So, anong po? Kanino pong pangalan yung nakasulat doon below the certified true copy portion? 2144 05:42:12,180 --> 05:42:32,480 Eunice C. Sumatra: Okay. So, your honor, yung withdrawal slips po na sinubmit namin does not all happen or transacted in San Pedro Davao branch. So, I only certified, I only signed doon po sa mga documents na doon tina- 2145 05:42:33,110 --> 05:42:33,630 Eunice C. Sumatra: Doon po 2146 05:42:33,630 --> 05:42:43,830 Eunice C. Sumatra: nangyari yung transaction sa San Pedro Davao Branch. Meron po mga withdrawal slips, your honor, na iba pong branch ang nag-certify. 2147 05:42:45,660 --> 05:42:59,360 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: That's fine, your honor. But for those that have, that bear a signature, the certified above the name, what name again was that? Under the certified true copy. Yung mga meron lang pong certification, anong pangalan yung nandoon? 2148 05:43:00,800 --> 05:43:01,320 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: At 2149 05:43:01,320 --> 05:43:04,880 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: sa taas po nun, may signature. Kaninong signature po yan? 2150 05:43:04,880 --> 05:43:06,320 Eunice C. Sumatra: Signature ko po, Your Honor. 2151 05:43:06,320 --> 05:43:07,540 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Madam Witness. 2152 05:43:10,490 --> 05:43:26,460 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Now, Madam Witness, I would ask the assisting counsel to confront you now with the Certificate of Outstanding Balances which you mentioned. Tama po ba yan? Tama yung word, tama yung description? 2153 05:43:26,940 --> 05:43:27,900 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2154 05:43:28,120 --> 05:43:30,240 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I request for the marking, Your Honor? 2155 05:43:33,120 --> 05:43:38,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's what I was about to ask. Also, the marking for the withdrawals. Do you have a marking already? 2156 05:43:38,300 --> 05:43:39,100 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: We have, 2157 05:43:39,200 --> 05:43:41,820 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, but allow me to check it with us. 2158 05:43:42,640 --> 05:43:53,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I don't have it with me. I don't have a pre-marked document for that. Ilang pages po yung withdrawal at yung mga checks, Ma'am Eunice? 2159 05:43:55,660 --> 05:43:58,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Eunice, yung kategoriya po yan, ilang pages po yan? 2160 05:43:59,620 --> 05:44:01,140 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Permission to approach the witness, Your Honor? 2161 05:44:01,140 --> 05:44:01,560 Eunice C. Sumatra: Can 2162 05:44:01,560 --> 05:44:05,260 Eunice C. Sumatra: I have the, Your Honor? May I be allowed? 2163 05:44:05,260 --> 05:44:06,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am, 2164 05:44:06,920 --> 05:44:07,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you may. 2165 05:44:08,850 --> 05:44:13,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is already, according to attorney James, this is separate from the 21 pages. 2166 05:44:13,250 --> 05:44:15,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: For the 2167 05:44:15,190 --> 05:44:37,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: record, your honor, the marking of this document is, this were previously marked as P-2, P-Roman numeral 2, 8-3-2-1-4-LBP. A corresponding marking is also made by the defense. 2168 05:44:39,140 --> 05:44:51,050 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Exhibit D-2-8-3-2-1-4-LBP. Consisting of... 2169 05:44:51,050 --> 05:44:54,010 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: For 2170 05:45:09,780 --> 05:45:14,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: the 2171 05:45:18,260 --> 05:45:21,680 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: record, Your Honor, the witness is double checking her submissions. 2172 05:45:24,860 --> 05:45:26,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's supposed to be what? 12 pages? 2173 05:45:28,560 --> 05:45:29,860 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: 12 pages, Your Honor. 2174 05:45:30,220 --> 05:45:30,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. 2175 05:45:45,680 --> 05:45:46,860 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, Madam Witness. 2176 05:45:51,700 --> 05:45:52,220 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Now, 2177 05:45:54,550 --> 05:46:00,780 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, we will be confronting you with the Certificate 2178 05:46:05,320 --> 05:46:15,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: of Outstanding Balances that you've mentioned that you've submitted to the Honorable Court. Kindly go over these documents and peruse them if you can, please. 2179 05:46:15,480 --> 05:46:17,600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may I request again for the marking? 2180 05:46:18,410 --> 05:46:20,130 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: We will do so in a bit, Your Honor. 2181 05:46:21,620 --> 05:46:33,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While the witness is perusing it, allow the court, if the court is correct. It will be P-2-8-3-2-1-5-LBP consisting of 26 pages? 2182 05:46:34,570 --> 05:46:35,850 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, confirming that, Your Honor. 2183 05:46:36,090 --> 05:46:47,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And on the part of the respondent, D-RN-2-8-3-2-1-5-LBP. Would that be correct, Attorney CJ? 2184 05:46:47,640 --> 05:46:49,150 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Correct, Your Honor. 2185 05:46:49,150 --> 05:47:10,070 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, at this point, Your Honor, these are based on the records that we have coming directly from the Senate. But what we have here right now is only the first page of the exhibit that you've mentioned. So, given that this is the first time that we've checked this document, Your Honor, allow us a bit more leeway to check the other remaining pages of this document to complete the authenticating process, Your Honor. 2186 05:47:10,330 --> 05:47:16,800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, if I may, this is precisely my point, Your Honor. They don't even have the documents to be identified. 2187 05:47:16,800 --> 05:47:17,020 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: It's 2188 05:47:17,020 --> 05:47:17,980 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: with the court, Your Honor. 2189 05:47:17,980 --> 05:47:20,940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. But please allow me to finish. 2190 05:47:20,940 --> 05:47:21,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Go 2191 05:47:21,440 --> 05:47:21,620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ahead. 2192 05:47:22,480 --> 05:47:47,490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, precisely this is why I am asking for the proper procedure of identification and authentication because they don't even have the documents. And their reasoning that it is with the court is of no moment, Your Honor. That is not a reason for not being able or not having documents. For the witness to identify and authenticate. 2193 05:47:47,970 --> 05:47:53,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted, counsel. It will be added in the manifestation in connection with this issue. 2194 05:47:53,310 --> 05:47:54,790 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. 2195 05:47:54,790 --> 05:47:59,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court informs me that the copies were given to the prosecution already. 2196 05:48:00,510 --> 05:48:01,370 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2197 05:48:02,130 --> 05:48:02,670 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: However... 2198 05:48:02,670 --> 05:48:04,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not just the first page. 2199 05:48:04,570 --> 05:48:15,680 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes. That's why, Your Honor, however, this is the first time that we're producing the documents right now, Your Honor, as it was handed to us immediately before this. So allow us a bit of leeway in order to check all this, Your Honor. 2200 05:48:15,800 --> 05:48:33,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just have her identify it. Again, as stated by Senator Judge Lacson earlier, we're talking of relatively small amounts consisting of payroll. In fact, less than payroll. 2201 05:48:35,930 --> 05:48:36,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As maintaining balances. 2202 05:49:05,710 --> 05:49:09,470 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: to the one that you've mentioned. And what do you call this document, if you can? 2203 05:49:10,940 --> 05:49:31,610 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor, this document, based on the series of account numbers, are accounts of Davao Recto Branch, which is not my account, which is not my branch, rather. But I am familiar with the signature of the branch head. 2204 05:49:31,610 --> 05:49:31,870 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, 2205 05:49:31,950 --> 05:49:32,290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: there was 2206 05:49:32,290 --> 05:49:32,770 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: no question. 2207 05:49:32,930 --> 05:49:34,130 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I ask that it be? 2208 05:49:35,770 --> 05:49:35,850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: It 2209 05:49:35,850 --> 05:49:38,890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: was the answer of the witness, Your Honor. There was no question. 2210 05:49:39,870 --> 05:49:46,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, stricken off, kindly be responsive, Ma'am Eunice, only to what we just asked of you. Kindly proceed, Attorney James. 2211 05:49:47,210 --> 05:49:54,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay, Madam Witness, relax lang po. Relax lang po. Medyo ano lang talaga yung authentication process, Ma'am. 2212 05:49:56,330 --> 05:50:03,590 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: So, sabi ko nga po, ito pong nabanggit ninyo, yung year-end balance na in-identify nyo. And I'm also showing it to our 2213 05:50:05,450 --> 05:50:37,200 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: assisting defense lawyer, your honor. So, eto po, nakasulat dito, year-end balances of accounts from December 31, 2007 to December 2025. Nakasulat po dito, prepared by Marilu Mequilla at noted by Raquel U. de la Serna, branch head. Eto pong dito sa noted by, above the name Raquel U. de la Serna. Kanina pong signature ito kung alam niyo po? 2214 05:50:38,000 --> 05:50:42,380 Eunice C. Sumatra: Signature po yan ni branch head Raquel U. de la Serna, your honor. 2215 05:50:42,700 --> 05:50:45,640 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: At paano naman, paano niyo po nalaman na signature niya yun? 2216 05:50:46,780 --> 05:51:17,760 Eunice C. Sumatra: We are familiar with the signature of the other branch officers because we maintain signatures of the authorized signatories of other branches for us to verify especially when they issue a manager's check and Of course, I've been with the bank and Ms. Raquel also with the bank for so long. So, we have these documents that we see each other's signature, Your Honor. 2217 05:51:17,760 --> 05:51:18,120 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank 2218 05:51:18,120 --> 05:51:30,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: you, Madam Witness. Because you're confirming these documents, may I know, Mr. Madam Witness, kung ilang pages po ba itong sinubmit niyo? Or ito lang po ba yun? Would you know? 2219 05:51:30,770 --> 05:51:33,280 Eunice C. Sumatra: Hindi. Hindi kasi ako nagsubmit nito sir. 2220 05:51:33,520 --> 05:51:34,480 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay, that's fine. 2221 05:51:35,850 --> 05:51:36,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: But 2222 05:51:36,330 --> 05:51:38,150 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: could you confirm that this came from your bank? 2223 05:51:39,270 --> 05:51:42,350 Eunice C. Sumatra: For land bank, you mean? Not for San Pedro branch. 2224 05:51:42,590 --> 05:51:43,290 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: But from land bank? 2225 05:51:43,510 --> 05:51:45,550 Eunice C. Sumatra: Land bank. I know Ma'am Raquel. 2226 05:51:45,910 --> 05:52:04,460 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay, that's enough Madam Witness. For the record, Your Honor, this is Exhibit P-2-8-3-4-2-5-LBP, a common exhibit of the defense, again. D-R2-8-3-4-2-5-LPP 2227 05:52:04,460 --> 05:52:05,960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Noted, 2228 05:52:07,750 --> 05:52:08,570 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your 2229 05:52:08,570 --> 05:52:08,830 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor. 2230 05:52:08,990 --> 05:52:09,870 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, 2231 05:52:10,010 --> 05:52:20,070 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I am about to end. Other than these documents, meron po ba kayong sinubmit sa Honorable Court kung meron man? Doon sa mga na-identify niyo, meron pa po ba? 2232 05:52:22,510 --> 05:52:27,930 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yung year-end balances issued by our branch, Your Honor. 2233 05:52:28,170 --> 05:52:28,510 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Okay. 2234 05:52:29,150 --> 05:52:29,670 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Sige. 2235 05:52:29,770 --> 05:52:35,810 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Allow us to get a copy of that through the copies that we got from the court. 2236 05:53:00,690 --> 05:53:02,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Can you just look for the 2237 05:53:02,410 --> 05:53:03,910 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: year 2238 05:53:03,910 --> 05:53:06,050 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: -end Madam Witness that you've mentioned? 2239 05:53:08,280 --> 05:53:10,140 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Do you 2240 05:53:30,710 --> 05:53:31,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: have it with you now? 2241 05:53:31,370 --> 05:53:37,130 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor, I also have submitted this bank certificate of... 2242 05:53:40,210 --> 05:53:43,550 Eunice C. Sumatra: of the companies, name of the companies, which is certified. 2243 05:53:44,110 --> 05:54:06,810 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Before the witness answers, the prosecution manifested that they were giving her a specific document, but in fact, they had given her a different document not mentioned by the witness. This is precisely what I'm saying, Your Honor. The authentication and identification process is of 2244 05:54:06,810 --> 05:54:09,180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: vital importance. 2245 05:54:09,180 --> 05:54:13,040 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, just to, you know, disallay any issues about that. 2246 05:54:13,280 --> 05:54:15,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We're talking of outstanding balances, right? 2247 05:54:15,120 --> 05:54:18,180 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. And as I mentioned... 2248 05:54:18,180 --> 05:54:18,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So what 2249 05:54:18,280 --> 05:54:20,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: are you referring to to be different, Atty. CJ? 2250 05:54:20,800 --> 05:54:20,880 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your 2251 05:54:20,880 --> 05:54:29,100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, she was just handed a certification. which was different from what the question elicited, Your Honor. 2252 05:54:29,100 --> 05:54:29,560 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No, Your Honor. 2253 05:54:29,660 --> 05:54:38,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I believe the three categories of documents were payroll, withdrawal, which she clarified, and certification as the outstanding balances. 2254 05:54:38,500 --> 05:54:39,020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. 2255 05:54:39,080 --> 05:54:39,940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: That was not 2256 05:54:39,940 --> 05:54:40,640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: one of the... 2257 05:54:40,640 --> 05:54:43,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is that what she has now? Attorney James? 2258 05:54:43,160 --> 05:54:57,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No, Your Honor. If the good counsel was Lisa Nawalagong, my question was that. I'm giving her the documents, Your Honor, that we got from the court, and I was asking her to... Look which one of those documents for the year-end balance. And I would only proceed... 2259 05:54:57,160 --> 05:54:58,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So she has not yet pointed it out? 2260 05:54:58,940 --> 05:54:59,760 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Exactly, Your Honor. 2261 05:54:59,760 --> 05:55:00,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 2262 05:55:00,360 --> 05:55:23,580 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And just to counter-manifest, Your Honor, lest we let it slide, Your Honor. As I mentioned a while ago, the witness has confirmed the documents to be authentic again and again. And that only lends credence to my argument a while ago. That is not even a genuine issue to begin with. But nonetheless, Your Honor, we will just proceed. Madam Witness. 2263 05:55:23,580 --> 05:55:23,920 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, 2264 05:55:23,940 --> 05:55:24,080 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: if I 2265 05:55:24,080 --> 05:55:44,660 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: may before that. Of course not, Your Honor. This is, so many problems have arisen in the process of authentication of the prosecution. And he insists that it is not important. And yet, the reality provides otherwise. Which problem was that? Continue. 2266 05:55:46,800 --> 05:55:52,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Councils, please. Again, let's not belabor the point. Let's not make it more difficult than it already is. 2267 05:55:52,860 --> 05:55:54,400 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2268 05:55:54,400 --> 05:55:56,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's move on. Ma'am Eunice, 2269 05:55:58,370 --> 05:55:58,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may 2270 05:55:58,870 --> 05:56:02,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: binigay po ba sa inyo yung dokumento? Yung baboy yung tinutukoy yung dokumento kanina? 2271 05:56:02,090 --> 05:56:10,150 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, are you okay? Medyo nahirap. Inupo kayo ng tubig. Di po kami nag-aaway. Talagang ganun maglambingan yung mga abogado. 2272 05:56:14,650 --> 05:56:17,930 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor, my apology for the second time. 2273 05:56:19,530 --> 05:56:33,100 Eunice C. Sumatra: I issued a certificate also, apart from what I have mentioned. I also issued a certificate of 20 corporations. 2274 05:56:41,350 --> 05:56:52,030 Eunice C. Sumatra: I issued a certificate that these companies do not have an account with Land Bank San Pedro Branch. I acknowledge this certification, Your Honor. 2275 05:56:52,330 --> 05:56:55,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So that's not... with respect to the outstanding balances 2276 05:56:55,420 --> 05:56:56,100 Eunice C. Sumatra: yes your 2277 05:56:56,100 --> 05:56:56,400 Eunice C. Sumatra: honor 2278 05:56:56,400 --> 05:56:59,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: okay so that's not what the what the council is referring to okay so 2279 05:56:59,400 --> 05:57:08,380 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: yeah kindly go over those documents madam witness uh and if you can find the document that you've just mentioned a while ago so we can authenticate it 2280 05:57:08,380 --> 05:57:08,920 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: your 2281 05:57:08,920 --> 05:57:09,100 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: honor 2282 05:57:09,100 --> 05:57:23,560 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: this is improper procedure handing the witness a stack of documents and trying to find which one she actually issued Cannot be done, your honor. Can I object to this, your honor? 2283 05:57:23,880 --> 05:57:39,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel asked for leeway, attorney CJ. The court is inclined to give it, given that he may have relied on the leniency of the court with this witness. 2284 05:57:41,580 --> 05:57:46,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, the court will give him leeway. Kindly give him leeway as well, attorney CJ. 2285 05:57:46,580 --> 05:57:46,780 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I 2286 05:57:46,780 --> 05:57:49,360 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: will, your honor. In this regard. 2287 05:58:49,460 --> 05:58:56,180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, for the record, the witness was unable to locate the document asked for. 2288 05:58:56,720 --> 05:58:58,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is on the outstanding balances. 2289 05:58:58,880 --> 05:58:59,320 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Correct, 2290 05:58:59,460 --> 05:58:59,660 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. 2291 05:58:59,800 --> 05:59:06,320 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: That's fine, Your Honor. Just those documents that you've mentioned, ano yung mga nandun sa documents na yun, Madam Witness? 2292 05:59:06,320 --> 05:59:06,440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your 2293 05:59:06,440 --> 05:59:07,740 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, objection vague. 2294 05:59:09,560 --> 05:59:10,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: That's not vague, Your Honor. 2295 05:59:10,740 --> 05:59:13,960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The militias was just handed a clump of documents. Your 2296 05:59:13,960 --> 05:59:17,440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, exactly. Ano yung mga nandun sa 2297 05:59:17,440 --> 05:59:20,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I don't know how one would answer that. 2298 05:59:21,140 --> 05:59:22,900 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Well, let's try, Your Honor. Maybe the witness can. 2299 05:59:24,620 --> 05:59:30,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The witness indeed mentioned certification on outstanding balances. 2300 05:59:33,850 --> 05:59:35,310 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright, Your Honor, I will... 2301 05:59:35,310 --> 05:59:36,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly 2302 05:59:36,250 --> 05:59:44,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer if you know, Madam Witness, Ms. Eunice. We're referring to the outstanding balances certification that you issued. 2303 05:59:48,520 --> 05:59:54,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Documents are being handed to the witness again. Are these the documents you're referring to, Ms. Eunice? 2304 05:59:55,000 --> 05:59:55,500 Eunice C. Sumatra: I 2305 05:59:58,120 --> 05:59:59,340 Eunice C. Sumatra: have not seen the certificate. 2306 06:00:03,060 --> 06:00:11,580 Eunice C. Sumatra: In here are the withdrawal slips, the one I mentioned earlier, the checked images. 2307 06:00:11,580 --> 06:00:12,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 2308 06:00:12,140 --> 06:00:22,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: don't have, Madam Miss Eunice, you don't have to give us a blow-by-blow account of what you're seeing, just if you've seen the certification and understanding balances. 2309 06:01:21,120 --> 06:01:26,460 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor. I do not see the certificate of outstanding balance, Your Honor. 2310 06:01:26,640 --> 06:01:28,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I don't understand, Attorney James. 2311 06:01:30,220 --> 06:01:32,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Indeed, you're using the court's copy. 2312 06:01:32,920 --> 06:01:33,860 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2313 06:01:33,860 --> 06:01:39,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But you pre-marked this document. Why can't you simply refer to the pre-marked document and show it to the witness? 2314 06:01:40,450 --> 06:01:48,290 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, allow me, Your Honor. The statement of the witness pertaining to the certificate of outstanding balance is... 2315 06:01:48,890 --> 06:01:52,530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you've had a copy of these documents. Both parties have had copies 2316 06:01:52,530 --> 06:01:54,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: of these documents. 2317 06:01:54,230 --> 06:02:01,150 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: It's not among the documents, your honor. But because that was the answer of the witness, the rules would require me to... It's 2318 06:02:01,150 --> 06:02:04,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not among the documents that was subpoenaed by this court? 2319 06:02:04,570 --> 06:02:27,530 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, your honor. No, no, it was not submitted by this bank, your honor. But because it was answered that way by the witness, I was obliged to follow that line of questioning and perhaps... At this point, determined that it was indeed not included. And I have to do this again and again because I have to go through the answers of the witness, Your Honor. And this is the process that we have to go through. 2320 06:02:27,530 --> 06:02:27,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So are 2321 06:02:27,950 --> 06:02:28,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you done? 2322 06:02:28,810 --> 06:02:29,590 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2323 06:02:29,890 --> 06:02:34,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you done showing and proving that it's not one of the documents submitted by the land bank? 2324 06:02:34,750 --> 06:02:35,110 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2325 06:02:35,110 --> 06:02:36,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Those standing balances? 2326 06:02:36,450 --> 06:02:37,090 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2327 06:02:37,490 --> 06:02:38,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed. 2328 06:02:40,220 --> 06:02:52,010 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: With that, Your Honor, that would be all the documents submitted by the land bank, Your Honor. And we will land bank San Pedro. And we will be dispensing with Ma'am Eunice this afternoon, Your Honor. 2329 06:02:55,070 --> 06:02:56,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You're done with your direct? 2330 06:02:56,610 --> 06:02:57,290 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2331 06:02:58,950 --> 06:03:01,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I hope you don't have any cross, Atty. CJ, do you? 2332 06:03:01,690 --> 06:03:02,370 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I do, Your Honor. 2333 06:03:03,910 --> 06:03:07,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was afraid of that. You may proceed, Atty. CJ. 2334 06:03:07,870 --> 06:03:08,250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Good 2335 06:03:08,250 --> 06:03:08,890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: afternoon, Ma'am. 2336 06:03:12,050 --> 06:03:17,970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, you're appearing today only as the representative of the Land Bank of the Philippines, San Pedro branch. 2337 06:03:18,070 --> 06:03:18,910 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2338 06:03:19,150 --> 06:03:20,490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This is in Davao City, correct? 2339 06:03:20,610 --> 06:03:21,230 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2340 06:03:22,150 --> 06:03:25,730 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And your testimony is limited only to bank records, correct? 2341 06:03:25,890 --> 06:03:26,770 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2342 06:03:27,110 --> 06:03:28,750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: How long have you held this position? 2343 06:03:29,810 --> 06:03:33,290 Eunice C. Sumatra: As branch manager, for 15 years. 2344 06:03:33,470 --> 06:03:33,990 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: 15 years. 2345 06:03:34,310 --> 06:03:39,450 Eunice C. Sumatra: But for Land Bank San Pedro, it's two and a half years, Your Honor. 2346 06:03:40,170 --> 06:03:47,110 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. Ma'am, the Land Bank of the Philippines is a government financial institution, correct? 2347 06:03:47,370 --> 06:03:48,570 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2348 06:03:48,570 --> 06:03:49,090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And 2349 06:03:49,090 --> 06:03:55,410 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: it provides banking services to government agencies as well as individual depositors. 2350 06:03:55,410 --> 06:03:55,830 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, 2351 06:03:55,830 --> 06:03:56,090 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor. 2352 06:03:56,110 --> 06:03:56,270 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor, 2353 06:03:56,290 --> 06:03:57,030 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: objection. What 2354 06:03:57,030 --> 06:04:01,030 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: is the relevance of this question, Your Honor? I have to object on relevance, Your Honor. 2355 06:04:01,110 --> 06:04:02,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, she already answered, counsel. 2356 06:04:04,790 --> 06:04:09,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Miss Eunice, pakihintay po ng kahit ilang segundo lang. 2357 06:04:09,910 --> 06:04:10,830 Eunice C. Sumatra: Sorry, your honor. 2358 06:04:10,830 --> 06:04:20,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pulitin ko po, hindi naman po sila nag-aaway. Hindi niyo po yan kasalanan, baga man kagagawan niyo, pero... Biro lang po. 2359 06:04:22,090 --> 06:04:27,210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly just give a few seconds for the opposing counsel to object if he has any before answering. 2360 06:04:27,210 --> 06:04:27,430 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, 2361 06:04:27,430 --> 06:04:27,590 Eunice C. Sumatra: sir. 2362 06:04:27,670 --> 06:04:28,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, ma'am. 2363 06:04:28,750 --> 06:04:35,210 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, your services include deposit accounts and payroll services, among others, correct? 2364 06:04:36,490 --> 06:04:37,370 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, your honor. 2365 06:04:38,230 --> 06:04:39,250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, this... 2366 06:04:42,060 --> 06:04:53,260 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This account number 1477-0989-98 belongs to the Vice President Sara Duterte, correct? 2367 06:04:53,760 --> 06:04:57,900 Eunice C. Sumatra: Your Honor, can I refer to my record? 2368 06:04:59,610 --> 06:05:01,290 Eunice C. Sumatra: Can I be allowed, Your Honor? 2369 06:05:01,630 --> 06:05:02,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, ma'am, you may. 2370 06:05:16,760 --> 06:05:17,740 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yes, Your Honor. 2371 06:05:19,600 --> 06:05:21,100 Eunice C. Sumatra: I confirm, Your Honor. 2372 06:05:21,750 --> 06:05:26,690 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, her salary from the government is credited to this amount. Would you know this? 2373 06:05:28,950 --> 06:05:29,590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Her 2374 06:05:29,650 --> 06:05:32,430 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: salary from the government is credited to this account? 2375 06:05:32,430 --> 06:05:33,930 Eunice C. Sumatra: Yeah, the payroll, your honor. 2376 06:05:34,290 --> 06:05:34,910 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: These 2377 06:05:39,040 --> 06:05:45,440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: credits, where these amounts are coming from, can be seen by the San Pedro branch, correct? 2378 06:05:48,390 --> 06:06:00,950 Eunice C. Sumatra: If the validation is CM payroll, your honor, it's the agency who will prepare the payroll and we will just upload in our system the payroll. 2379 06:06:02,780 --> 06:06:06,900 Eunice C. Sumatra: The amounts that will be credited to the employees, Your Honor. 2380 06:06:07,040 --> 06:06:08,600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: But that can be seen? 2381 06:06:08,600 --> 06:06:09,120 Eunice C. Sumatra: If 2382 06:06:09,120 --> 06:06:12,560 Eunice C. Sumatra: we will check it one by one, Your Honor. 2383 06:06:12,640 --> 06:06:13,560 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: It can be? 2384 06:06:13,820 --> 06:06:14,480 Eunice C. Sumatra: It can be. 2385 06:06:16,020 --> 06:06:24,300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And the balance shown here that you said you identified, is the amount remaining after the credits and debits? 2386 06:06:24,960 --> 06:06:54,020 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Objection. Sorry, Your Honor, I have to object. This is beyond the scope of the debit examination. The prosecution... has presented this witness only to authenticate because we want to fast track and to expedite the authentication of all these documents, Your Honor, including other banks, Your Honor. So if we're going to have, well, understand that there is leeway in cross-examination, but there cannot be an unbridled authority to ask anything and everything under the sun. Otherwise, Your Honor, we might waste... 2387 06:06:56,430 --> 06:06:57,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It also 2388 06:06:57,790 --> 06:07:08,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: opens up the possibility of attorney CJ asking the wrong question and eliciting an answer that he may not desire given the limited scope of the testimony. 2389 06:07:08,270 --> 06:07:08,530 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Correct Your 2390 06:07:08,530 --> 06:07:08,690 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Honor. 2391 06:07:08,810 --> 06:07:14,280 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: However, he asked and identified withdrawal slips, Your Honor. 2392 06:07:14,280 --> 06:07:14,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, 2393 06:07:14,680 --> 06:07:23,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it was part of what was identified. But anyway, again, at Attorney CJ's peril, you may proceed, Attorney CJ. 2394 06:07:23,120 --> 06:07:23,940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: We submit, Your Honor. 2395 06:07:23,940 --> 06:07:26,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, given the limited testimony of the witness. 2396 06:07:30,230 --> 06:07:31,590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No further questions, Your Honor. 2397 06:07:33,190 --> 06:07:35,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any redirect? 2398 06:07:35,310 --> 06:07:40,050 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: I was about, Your Honor, but I'll just let it go, Your Honor. No, redirect, Your Honor. Thank you. 2399 06:07:41,210 --> 06:07:50,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I guess the manifestation of Senator Judge Lacson would apply to the Senator judges, if I'm not mistaken. Given that it is payroll, you're 2400 06:07:52,370 --> 06:08:11,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: giving me a thumbs up sign. Senator Judge Erwin, not raising your hand, I hope. Thank you. Ma'am, salamat po. Ma'am Eunice, sa inyong pagdalo, sa inyong panahon, pasensya, pagbiyahe patungo dito at pagsagot sa katanungan ng mga magkabilang partido. Thank you for your participation and your patience. Thank you, ma'am, your excuse. 2401 06:08:17,380 --> 06:08:20,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's do one more. Let's finish land bank at the very least. 2402 06:08:22,060 --> 06:08:25,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I presume this is no longer payroll, attorney James? 2403 06:08:25,180 --> 06:08:26,340 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, your honor. 2404 06:08:26,340 --> 06:08:30,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly have your assisting counsels prepare the documents for this witness. 2405 06:08:30,880 --> 06:08:31,360 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: On that 2406 06:08:31,360 --> 06:08:34,340 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: note, your honor, in order to make it more smooth or 2407 06:08:34,340 --> 06:08:34,980 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: smoother, 2408 06:08:35,080 --> 06:08:40,320 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: can we ask for a short recess, your honor, so that we can arrange everything, including the documents that we 2409 06:08:40,320 --> 06:08:40,660 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: just checked? 2410 06:08:40,720 --> 06:08:40,740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, chair 2411 06:08:40,740 --> 06:08:42,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: declares a 15-minute recess. 2412 06:08:42,320 --> 06:08:42,740 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Thank you, your honor. 2413 06:50:57,460 --> 06:51:26,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the information of the senator judges and the parties, during the recess, the presiding officer undertook to discuss the matter at hand with the council for the parties with a view to making the process less arduous and painful. And we arrived at an agreement which the chair would like 2414 06:51:28,670 --> 06:51:30,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To make of record, 2415 06:51:33,050 --> 06:51:56,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: before we call on the next witness, by the way, for the information of the body, we will only be calling one more witness for today, the other representative from Land Bank, and shall call it a day. We will try the new arrangement with this witness and proceed hopefully already like clockwork tomorrow with this new procedure. 2416 06:51:58,890 --> 06:52:07,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, kindly call your next witness, rather, Atty. James, so that we can try to adopt our procedure for this next witness. 2417 06:52:07,830 --> 06:52:08,430 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2418 06:52:13,250 --> 06:52:16,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That is Ms. Raquel de la Serna, correct? 2419 06:52:16,370 --> 06:52:17,090 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2420 06:52:17,090 --> 06:52:17,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 2421 06:52:17,570 --> 06:52:24,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Clerk of Court, through those eyes, directed to kindly situate Ms. Raquel de la Serna to the witness stand. 2422 06:52:24,670 --> 06:52:28,950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, with regard to the earlier manifestation of 2423 06:52:30,640 --> 06:52:36,200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Atty. James, we will just adopt the objections to his offer, 2424 06:52:36,340 --> 06:52:37,100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. 2425 06:52:37,100 --> 06:52:41,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, it'll be the same offer. If it's the same offer, it's the same objections and manifestations. 2426 06:52:42,480 --> 06:52:43,320 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. I 2427 06:52:43,320 --> 06:52:44,880 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: confirm that it's the same offer, Your Honor. 2428 06:52:44,880 --> 06:52:45,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, 2429 06:52:45,160 --> 06:53:04,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: let it be made of record that it is the same offer for this witness as with the first witness, Witness Eunice. And for the record also, it'll be the same objections, reservations, and their manifestations on the part of the respondent for this new witness, Ms. Raquel. 2430 06:53:11,800 --> 06:53:30,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ms. Raquel, bago po kayo mo po, pakisundan lamang po, pakinggan yung panunumpang bibigkasin ng Clerk of Court at sumagot na lamang po kayo sa dulo ng inyong karampatang sagot. The Clerk of Court will please administer the oath. 2431 06:53:31,260 --> 06:53:45,540 Atty. Marivic Laurel Garcia: Kindly raise your right hand. You, Raquel de la Serna, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. 2432 06:53:48,360 --> 06:53:51,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly answer through the mic, Ma'am Raquel. 2433 06:53:51,510 --> 06:53:51,950 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, 2434 06:53:51,970 --> 06:53:52,170 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Your 2435 06:53:52,170 --> 06:53:52,630 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Honor. 2436 06:53:52,630 --> 06:53:53,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Ma 2437 06:53:53,010 --> 06:53:53,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'am. Kindly sit down. 2438 06:53:55,500 --> 06:54:01,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Naunawaan po niyo, Ma'am Raquel, yung inyong pinanumpahan? Kaugnay sa testimonyang bibigay po niyo sa hukumang ito? 2439 06:54:01,760 --> 06:54:02,580 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, Your Honor. 2440 06:54:03,370 --> 06:54:16,450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, ma'am. Now, before we proceed, the offer has been made and the manifestation and comment on the offer has already been made already of record by both parties for this witness. The court would like to state the following. 2441 06:54:19,410 --> 06:55:47,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The records to be identified by this witness, limited by what is contained in the inventory of documents. that were signed by the parties on various dates were produced directly by land bank which has natural and regular custody of them pursuant to the subpoenas issued by the court. They were officially delivered to the court without passing through an interested party or private intermediary. The clerk recorded, inventoried, safeguarded, and reproduced the submissions for use in these proceedings. Taken together, the institutional returns to the subpoenas, the documented receipt, and protected custody of the source records, and the court supervised reproduction establishes the provenance of such records. The court is mindful. of Republic v. Marcos, GR 17-1701, which held that PCGG's collection and custody of private documents did not convert them into public records or without more authenticate them, particularly where only unauthenticated copies were presented. 2442 06:55:49,460 --> 06:57:49,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hence, the Court relies not on custody alone but the records' direct production by the institutional custodians pursuant to the subpoena Their documented receipt and safekeeping by the clerk of court, their availability for inspection, and their court-supervised reproduction. Collectively, these circumstances establish records of provenance only, identity, and integrity, as well as fidelity of the copies. In addition, under Rule 4, Section 1 of the Rules and Evidence, an electronic document is regarded as equivalent of an original under the original document rule when its print When it is a printout of other or other output readable by sight or other means and shown to reflect the data accurately. To the extent that any record independently qualifies as an official record and is entitled to a presumption of regularity, that presumption is rebuttable and does not establish the truth or accuracy of every entry. Upon a specific substantial showing of fraud, falsification, material alteration, irregularity, incompleteness, palpable mistake, Unreliable method of preparation of breaking the chain of custody or lack of personal knowledge or material inconsistency with other evidence. The respondent or any other party may challenge the record's admission, seek the exclusion or limitation of the disputed entries, and request the appearance of appropriate custodian or other qualified witness as the case may be during cross-examination or during. The formal offer of evidence. In other words, we are not depriving the respondent of any of its available rights to question the authenticity of the documents but are simply trying to abbreviate the proceedings if there are no allegations nor claims of fraud, palpable mistake in the preparation of the documents in order to abbreviate the proceedings on these witnesses which are similarly situated. 2443 06:57:51,670 --> 06:57:56,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, kindly proceed accordingly, Atty. James, and let's see how this goes. 2444 06:57:56,470 --> 06:58:01,050 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Noted, Your Honor. Under the same offer, permission to proceed, Your Honor. Madam Witness, 2445 06:58:01,230 --> 06:58:15,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm sorry, Atty. James, with your indulgence. The clerk is instructed to kindly inform the representatives of the other banks that they may rest for the day. Imbis na maghintay pa po sila, they can rest for the day. 2446 06:58:17,580 --> 06:58:37,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: They're still covered by a subpoena for tomorrow. And to kindly inform them to be here for subpoena at 10 a.m. And hopefully, we shall be able to go through most if not all of the witnesses by tomorrow. The Clerk of Court is so directed. 2447 06:58:38,450 --> 06:58:44,150 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Permission to proceed, Your Honor. Thank you, Pa. Good afternoon, Madam Witness. 2448 06:58:44,150 --> 06:58:44,430 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Good 2449 06:58:44,430 --> 06:58:45,010 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: afternoon, sir. 2450 06:58:45,910 --> 06:58:54,750 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: So, for the record, could you provide us your full name, designation, and what branch or bank are you representing, please? 2451 06:58:55,650 --> 06:59:06,110 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Good afternoon, everyone. I am Raquel [unclear] Dela Cerna, branch manager of Davao R. Magsaysay, Land Bank Davao R. Magsaysay branch. 2452 06:59:06,840 --> 06:59:13,160 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And as the branch manager of Davao R. Magsaysay 2453 06:59:13,160 --> 06:59:13,620 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: of 2454 06:59:13,620 --> 06:59:18,840 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Landbank, what are your primary functions and responsibilities? 2455 06:59:19,720 --> 06:59:52,440 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Being the branch manager of a particular branch, I am responsible to overlook or to supervise the operation of the branch as well as make sure that the Internal control or the guidelines, the policies and guidelines of the bank is strictly implemented. However, much of my work is on the marketing side, sir. We have a branch operation officer and branch service officer who directly, who have a direct supervision of all the daily transactions of the branch. 2456 06:59:52,800 --> 07:00:09,870 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Alright. Based on your records that you've submitted to the court and this pursuant to the ruling of the How many accounts does the Vice President or Atty. Manasseh Scarpio have in your branch? 2457 07:00:12,980 --> 07:00:23,420 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: We had two accounts of PVSARA which are now closed and one of Atty. Manases Carpio. 2458 07:00:23,680 --> 07:00:33,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: You mentioned that the two accounts of the Vice President are now closed. How about the third one of Atty. Carpio? What is the status of that account? 2459 07:00:33,830 --> 07:00:38,630 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: The account of Atty. Manasseh is still current or active. 2460 07:00:39,370 --> 07:00:47,190 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: And for the record, could you just provide us the last four digits of that bank account for our reference? 2461 07:00:48,410 --> 07:00:53,310 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Can I look on my file, sir? Because I could not remember the number. 2462 07:00:53,570 --> 07:00:53,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may 2463 07:00:53,710 --> 07:00:54,310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: do so, ma'am. 2464 07:01:03,790 --> 07:01:09,690 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: The last four number of Atty. Manases is 2730. 2465 07:01:12,030 --> 07:01:23,030 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Madam Witness, based on your records, what is the year-end balance of the account of Atty. Manases Carpio for 2022? 2466 07:01:24,750 --> 07:01:33,250 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: I have here in my record sir, for year end 2022, 505,517.35 centavos. 2467 07:01:33,330 --> 07:01:34,290 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Can you go slowly madam? 2468 07:01:34,370 --> 07:01:35,110 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Sorry po. 2469 07:01:36,370 --> 07:01:37,210 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Year 2470 07:01:37,620 --> 07:01:44,860 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: end December 2022 is 505,517.35. 2471 07:01:46,260 --> 07:01:58,020 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: How about for the year 2023? What is the year-end balance of Atty. Carpio corresponding to his account ending with last digits 2730? 2472 07:01:59,000 --> 07:02:07,340 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: For year-end 2023, the last or the outstanding balance that time was 953,681.42. 2473 07:02:07,860 --> 07:02:18,260 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: How about for 2024? What is the year-end balance of This account that you've mentioned under the name of Atty. Carpio? 2474 07:02:18,670 --> 07:02:24,610 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: For 2024, sir, it was 115,824.20. 2475 07:02:25,870 --> 07:02:34,450 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Lastly, Madam Witness, for 2025, what is the year-end balance of this account based on your records? 2476 07:02:34,450 --> 07:02:35,030 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: For 2477 07:02:35,030 --> 07:02:41,250 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: 2025, sir, it was 1,358,373.07. 2478 07:02:44,870 --> 07:02:47,250 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: That would be all for my direct examination, your honor. 2479 07:02:48,120 --> 07:02:48,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. CJ? 2480 07:02:49,690 --> 07:02:51,010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: With this honorable court's 2481 07:02:51,010 --> 07:02:51,170 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: permission. 2482 07:02:51,490 --> 07:02:53,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed with your cross when you're ready. 2483 07:02:53,630 --> 07:02:54,110 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Good 2484 07:02:54,400 --> 07:02:56,320 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: afternoon, Ms. Dela Serna. 2485 07:02:56,320 --> 07:02:56,720 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Good afternoon, sir. 2486 07:02:58,640 --> 07:03:09,540 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, you mentioned that you are in charge of the internal controls of your branch and you implement the policies of Land Back, correct? 2487 07:03:10,100 --> 07:03:11,530 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, your honor. 2488 07:03:11,530 --> 07:03:13,110 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So, in the ordinary course 2489 07:03:13,110 --> 07:03:24,490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: of banking practice, a person opening an account with the LBP must provide identifying information and documents required by the bank, correct? 2490 07:03:24,870 --> 07:03:25,570 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2491 07:03:25,890 --> 07:03:32,790 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The bank follows customer identification, KYC or Know Your Customer Procedures? 2492 07:03:33,010 --> 07:03:33,590 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2493 07:03:33,930 --> 07:03:37,810 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The bank maintains records identifying the account holder? 2494 07:03:38,190 --> 07:03:39,030 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2495 07:03:39,790 --> 07:03:45,070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: These records also identify the persons authorized to operate the account. 2496 07:03:45,370 --> 07:03:46,150 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2497 07:03:46,770 --> 07:03:52,210 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: An individual account is different or distinct from a joint account, correct? 2498 07:03:53,000 --> 07:03:53,700 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2499 07:03:54,820 --> 07:04:11,490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Merely identifying someone as the depositor or the account holder's spouse on an information form or on your records does not automatically mean or make that person a joint account holder, correct? 2500 07:04:11,490 --> 07:04:13,100 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2501 07:04:13,100 --> 07:04:20,360 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Being married to someone does not make the spouse an authorized signatory for that account, correct? 2502 07:04:23,590 --> 07:04:27,390 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: May I ask for, can you repeat the question sir? Sorry. 2503 07:04:27,930 --> 07:04:34,650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Being married to an account holder does not make the spouse an authorized signatory for that account. 2504 07:04:34,970 --> 07:04:44,410 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Objection, Your Honor. It's both speculative and vague. There are too much possible answers to that, Your Honor. Perhaps the good counsel can be more specific, Your Honor. 2505 07:04:44,410 --> 07:04:44,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If 2506 07:04:44,930 --> 07:04:47,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the witness knows, counsel. 2507 07:04:47,650 --> 07:04:48,450 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Submitted, Your Honor. 2508 07:04:48,450 --> 07:04:52,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Raquel, alam niyo ba yung sagot sa katanungan niya? 2509 07:04:52,970 --> 07:04:53,890 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2510 07:04:53,890 --> 07:04:54,570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly answer. 2511 07:04:56,460 --> 07:04:59,360 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: These are two different or distinct individuals, sir. 2512 07:04:59,520 --> 07:05:00,320 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Correct. 2513 07:05:03,520 --> 07:05:17,440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You identified the account with number 0161-4627-30, correct? 2514 07:05:18,930 --> 07:05:21,510 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. That's the account of attorney Carpio, sir. 2515 07:05:21,690 --> 07:05:22,030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Correct. 2516 07:05:25,170 --> 07:05:33,270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And your bank, the LVP, maintains account information for each individual account holder. Correct? 2517 07:05:33,510 --> 07:05:34,030 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2518 07:05:35,330 --> 07:05:41,970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Statements and account notices are sent to the address or contact detail designated for that account. 2519 07:05:42,430 --> 07:05:43,250 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2520 07:05:43,660 --> 07:05:44,300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You 2521 07:05:44,300 --> 07:05:46,300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: do not send a 2522 07:05:46,300 --> 07:05:50,140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: separate copy of notices to the account holder spouse, correct? 2523 07:05:50,460 --> 07:05:51,300 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2524 07:05:55,100 --> 07:06:01,800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And you do not automatically notify the spouse whenever a deposit or a withdrawal is made, correct? 2525 07:06:02,160 --> 07:06:02,900 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2526 07:06:03,440 --> 07:06:09,760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Neither do you automatically inform the spouse of the account's balance at the end of the year, correct? 2527 07:06:10,120 --> 07:06:11,160 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2528 07:06:12,820 --> 07:06:21,460 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: It is the LBP's practice whether the individual account holder is the husband or the wife. It doesn't matter, correct? 2529 07:06:23,170 --> 07:06:29,290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Kahit yung lalaki or babae, it doesn't matter. Walang difference. Yun yung practice niyo po. 2530 07:06:30,710 --> 07:06:32,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The question is [unclear], counsel. 2531 07:06:33,840 --> 07:06:46,200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I withdraw your honor. In ordinary banking transactions, the LBP verifies a person's identity and authority before releasing confidential information on the account. 2532 07:06:47,070 --> 07:07:04,790 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Objection, Your Honor. I don't think that the witness is in the position to answer that. She is a branch manager. She is not presented here as a person who is well aware of internal controls at the national level or policy level of land bank, Your Honor. We might endanger the witness with her employment, 2533 07:07:05,030 --> 07:07:05,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Your Honor. 2534 07:07:05,330 --> 07:07:16,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then she may answer along those lines if she doesn't know. She may answer too if she knows. Objection is overruled. Ma'am Raquel, kung alam niyo po yung sagot, sagutin niyo po. Pag hindi niyo po alam, sabihin niyo rin po. 2535 07:07:18,530 --> 07:07:20,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly repeat the question, Attorney CJ. 2536 07:07:21,230 --> 07:07:31,210 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ma'am, in your practice, LBP verifies a person's identity and authority before releasing confidential account information, correct? 2537 07:07:31,710 --> 07:07:32,330 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2538 07:07:33,380 --> 07:07:42,960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your bank would require the depositor or the account holder's written authorization before releasing the account information to a spouse, correct? 2539 07:07:43,820 --> 07:07:47,380 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: We require SPA instead sir, special power of attorney. 2540 07:07:47,380 --> 07:07:47,500 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Oh, 2541 07:07:47,520 --> 07:07:48,920 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: not just a written... 2542 07:07:48,920 --> 07:07:49,720 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Authorization, yes. 2543 07:07:49,720 --> 07:07:50,180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 2544 07:07:50,180 --> 07:07:50,240 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Not just 2545 07:07:50,240 --> 07:07:51,120 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: authorization sir. 2546 07:07:51,320 --> 07:07:59,480 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So merely naming a spouse in the customer information sheet does not make that spouse a joint account holder, correct? 2547 07:08:00,000 --> 07:08:04,600 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir, unless they're specifically mentioned na mag-or sila or something. 2548 07:08:04,820 --> 07:08:15,090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you ma'am. A person does not automatically become an authorized signatory merely because he or she is married to that account holder, correct? 2549 07:08:15,630 --> 07:08:16,270 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2550 07:08:17,310 --> 07:08:24,510 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Neither does the LBP automatically provide the spouse with access to the account through online banking, correct? 2551 07:08:26,400 --> 07:08:27,820 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Can you repeat the question please? 2552 07:08:28,660 --> 07:08:35,800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Neither does the LBP automatically provide the spouse with access to the account through online banking, correct? 2553 07:08:36,120 --> 07:08:36,700 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes sir. 2554 07:08:40,560 --> 07:08:48,100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thus, marriage alone does not entitle a person to obtain the other spouse's account balance directly from the LVP. Correct? 2555 07:08:48,440 --> 07:08:48,960 Raquel U. Dela Cerna: Yes, sir. 2556 07:08:49,320 --> 07:08:49,880 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No 2557 07:08:58,390 --> 07:08:59,270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: further questions, Your Honor. 2558 07:08:59,590 --> 07:09:01,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any redirect, Attorney James? 2559 07:09:01,350 --> 07:09:02,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: No redirect, Your Honor. 2560 07:09:03,050 --> 07:09:08,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There have been no other questions. I take it there are no interjections from Senator Judges at this point? 2561 07:09:10,440 --> 07:09:18,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I take it you're waving your hands, not raising your hands. 2562 07:09:21,460 --> 07:09:34,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Raquel, you are excused. Maraming salamat po sa inyong oras, panahon, paumanin, mahinintay ninyo. Mas maaba po po yung antay kesa sa pag-testimonyo ninyo. Salamat po sa pagsagot ng 2563 07:09:34,060 --> 07:09:36,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: mga katanungan ng magkabilang partido. You're excused ma'am. 2564 07:09:37,020 --> 07:09:37,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That 2565 07:09:38,410 --> 07:09:39,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was not so painful. 2566 07:09:42,990 --> 07:09:51,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You were saying something yesterday CJ about seeing your family? Do I remember correctly? Was it you or someone else? 2567 07:09:51,330 --> 07:09:54,330 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Not me, Your Honor. Attorney Vinluan, if I remember correctly. 2568 07:09:54,490 --> 07:10:00,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, okay. Attorney Mark, I guess, was the one saying it. We can, we shall call it a day. 2569 07:10:03,180 --> 07:10:14,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tomorrow, we hope to proceed in this similar fashion or manner with respect to the other bank officials and let's cross the bridge and reach the insurance companies if they're the same. 2570 07:10:14,480 --> 07:10:15,100 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: Yes, Your Honor. 2571 07:10:16,550 --> 07:10:20,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other points you would like to raise, Attorney James? 2572 07:10:21,750 --> 07:10:23,330 Atty. James Bryan Ibrahim A. Alih: None from the prosecution, Your Honor. 2573 07:10:23,390 --> 07:10:25,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Sheila or Attorney CJ? 2574 07:10:26,830 --> 07:10:27,890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: None from us, Your 2575 07:10:27,890 --> 07:10:28,090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor. 2576 07:10:28,310 --> 07:10:44,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In that case, the court shall call it a day. We are adjourned until tomorrow, October 7th at 10 in the morning wherein we will proceed with the remaining witnesses insofar as the banks and insurance companies are concerned. Trial is adjourned.