# October 1, 2026

Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Duterte

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdixNI0wjqk
Status: Reviewed working draft, revision 3

**[00:02:23.310] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
The Senate President, the Presiding Officer, and Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

**[00:03:17.250] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sergeant at Arms is directed to

**[00:03:18.970] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
make a proclamation.

**[00:03:21.540] Alfredo Sotto Corpuz**  
All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:03:33.330] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Kiko Pangilinan.

**[00:03:47.050] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Ilagay natin ang ating mga sarili sa harap ng Panginoon. Ngayong tatlumpu?t pangalawang araw ng impeachment trial, naway maging gabay nating lahat ang salita ng Diyos mula sa Proverbs 18:5. Hindi mabuting magpakita ng pagkiling sa masama o ipagkait ang katarungan sa matuwid. It is not good to be partial to the wicked and so deprive the innocent of justice. Panginoon Diyos ng katarungan, katotohanan, at katapatan, dalangin namin ang kalinawan ng isip at katatagan ng paninindigan. Tulungan niyo po kaming maging patas ang aming mga pagsusuri sa bawat ebidensya at testigong inihaharap sa impeachment court na ito. Naway maging gabay din ng lahat ang Proverbs 12:22 Namumuhi si Yahweh sa mga taong sinungaling, ngunit ang tapat ay ligaya niya at aliw. The Lord detests lying lips, but He delights in people who are trustworthy. Kalugdan mo o Diyos ang aming inang bayang Pilipinas na uhaw sa katotohanan, katarungan, pananagutan. Look with favor O God, upon our motherland,

**[00:05:14.940] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
the

**[00:05:15.690] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Philippines, a nation that thirsts for truth and justice. Amen.

**[00:05:22.000] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The Clerk of Court will now call the roll.

**[00:05:25.160] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Roll call of members. Senator-Judge Aquino, Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan, Senator-Judge Cayetano Pia, Senator-Judge Dela Rosa, Senator-Judge Ejercito, Senator-Judge Estrada, Senator-Judge Go, Senator-Judge Hontiveros, Senator-Judge Lacson, Senator-Judge Lapid, Senator-Judge Legarda, Senator-Judge Marcoleta, Senator-Judge Marcos, Senator-Judge Padilla, Senator-Judge Pangilinan, Senator-Judge Sotto III, Senator-Judge Tulfo Erwin, Senator-Judge Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge Villanueva, Senator-Judge Villar Camille, Senator-Judge Villar Mark, Senator-Judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge Escudero, the Senate President, Senator-Judge Gatchalian.

**[00:06:10.080] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
With 13 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum.

**[00:06:15.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

**[00:06:24.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the September 29, 2026 Journal of the Senate, sitting as an impeachment court, and shall consider the same as approved.

**[00:06:39.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court will please read, rather, call the case before the impeachment court.

**[00:06:44.290] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:06:50.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Appearances of the parties.

**[00:06:53.160] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the prosecution, Your Honor. We are ready.

**[00:06:58.630] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the respondent accused.

**[00:07:01.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Good morning, Honorable Luistro. Good morning, Attorney Poa. I hope, like the Senator-Judges, you were able to... Get some rest and respite from the procedural pause that we had yesterday. Yes, what is the pleasure of the Honorable Luistro?

**[00:07:16.960] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We wish to manifest Your Honor that we will be beginning our presentation with the two LRA witnesses for this morning and in the afternoon, Your Honor, it will be the AMLC Executive Director.

**[00:07:29.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And tomorrow? So that we can prepare the subpoenas?

**[00:07:33.560] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We will be manifesting the witness for tomorrow, Your Honor, this afternoon before we adjourn.

**[00:07:39.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, but you already submitted a request for subpoena.

**[00:07:47.240] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
I believe, Your Honor, that's for the representatives of banks and insurance companies for next week, Your Honor.

**[00:07:55.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly look into it as well, Honorable Luistro, because we will be having, this is our first whole day trial. Tomorrow will be for one whole day too.

**[00:08:05.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'd rather have more witnesses in line than lacking witnesses and having to adjourn early. So you might want to add more witnesses for tomorrow and deduct it from your Monday witness list.

**[00:08:21.490] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We will do, Your Honor, before the adjournment today.

**[00:08:24.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If possible, after we resume.

**[00:08:28.010] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:08:29.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
After we resume. After lunch. After we resume, after the lunch recess.

**[00:08:35.750] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We submit, Your Honor.

**[00:08:36.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So we can issue the subpoena.

**[00:08:38.590] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:08:39.450] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor.

**[00:08:39.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Poa.

**[00:08:41.170] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
May we just respectfully request from our colleagues in the prosecution panel to just give us the list of the order of their witnesses as to be presented just so, Your Honor, we have fair notice and we are able to prepare for these witnesses.

**[00:08:55.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So today, who is the first witness?

**[00:08:57.410] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We will be presenting the two LRA witnesses first, Your Honor.

**[00:09:02.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Who is the first?

**[00:09:04.150] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, at this juncture, may I respectfully request that my colleague, my co-public prosecutor, Congressman Keith Flores be recognized so that he can address the questions concerning the first witnesses to be presented.

**[00:09:18.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Of course, the Honorable Flores is recognized.

**[00:09:21.050] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor, excuse me, Your Honor.

**[00:09:23.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[00:09:23.870] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
But as to our request for the order of witnesses, I hope that will also include...

**[00:09:34.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At least for today, can we get that order? And can we get the order for tomorrow as well as for next week after lunch? Can we have the order for today, Honorable Flores?

**[00:09:45.530] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, Your Honor. We will be presenting the two LRA representatives, Your Honor.

**[00:09:50.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again,

**[00:09:52.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
who will go first? You have two LRAs.

**[00:09:54.410] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, we will be calling first Attorney Cathy Florence Baldonado, Your Honor.

**[00:09:58.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
of Davao City, followed by Attorney Pineda of the City of Samal.

**[00:10:03.220] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, sir.

**[00:10:04.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And thereafter, the MLC, if you still have time.

**[00:10:07.120] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, sir.

**[00:10:10.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[00:10:12.590] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Thank you,

**[00:10:13.150] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor. Thank you. That is all.

**[00:10:14.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would that be satisfactory, Attorney Paul?

**[00:10:16.010] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:10:17.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And then after lunch, we get to hear the sequence for Friday and for Monday.

**[00:10:21.910] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Thank you, Your Honor. We appreciate that.

**[00:10:23.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As well as the other witnesses, they are asking the issuance of a subpoena against... You've received the request for subpoena, Attorney Poa?

**[00:10:30.800] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Yes, your honor. We confirmed receipt last night at 8.40 p.m.

**[00:10:34.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. We have a fresh start for today then. Attorney, or rather, Honorable Flores, kindly call your first witness. It's Attorney Cathy Florence

**[00:10:46.150] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Baldonado, your honor.

**[00:10:48.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. The clerk. Yes, Attorney Poa?

**[00:10:49.890] Atty. Michael Wesley Poa**  
Your Honor, may I turn over the proceedings to our co-counsel, Attorney Lindon Bacquel, for this witness, Your Honor. Attorney Lindon.

**[00:11:01.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
While we're calling the witness, Attorney Lindon, would you like the Apple box or platform?

**[00:11:10.680] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Good morning, Your Honor. No need, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:11:15.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Tulfo?

**[00:11:20.520] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Mr. Presiding Officer, my question pertains to the witness, Attorney Trillanes, if he's going to be presented tomorrow? or the day after tomorrow, or I don't know, next week. Is he going to be presented as witness?

**[00:11:37.540] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Mr. Trillanes?

**[00:11:39.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Flores, can you respond to the query of the Honorable Tulfo?

**[00:11:44.650] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, we will be informing the Court after lunch, Your Honor, once we get our business in order, Your Honor.

**[00:11:59.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi

**[00:11:59.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
pa po natin iniisuan ng subpoena ang dating senador na si Senator Sonny Trillanes.

**[00:12:07.580] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Ba't napag-usapan na ba na kung siya ay papayagan o hindi?

**[00:12:12.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As stated

**[00:12:13.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
by the court yesterday, given the motion for the issuance of subpoena predicated upon the presentation and evidence of AMLC and or bank records, The court declined to issue the subpoena without prejudice to the prosecution calling him and to appear voluntarily as a witness. However, given the sequence of presentation of the witnesses to be announced by the counsel, rather by the Honorable Flores from the panel of prosecutors, the court may issue that subpoena after it hears the sequence and that it is in order in line with the motion for the request of the subpoena earlier filed.

**[00:12:52.820] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Correct. Kasi kung kukuning witness si former Senator Trillanes, much better kung mauna muna siya bago ang AMLA. Kasi yung mga sasabihin ni Mr. Trillanes, may kinalaman sa mga bank accounts na kanyang nakalap long time ago. So kung meron siya mga ibubulgar na mga bank accounts, mga pera, pumasok labas sa accounts na nakuha niya sa kanyang source, then after makausap natin si Senator Trillanes, Iko-confirm yun ang AMLA. So dapat mauna muna si Trillanes, Mr. Trillanes, and then AMLA. Hindi pwede yung AMLA and then Trillanes.

**[00:13:30.020] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
What do you think, Prosecutor?

**[00:13:31.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's allow the Prosecutors, Senator-Judge Tulfo, to decide on that after lunch, as they said. Kasi

**[00:13:40.840] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
kuminsan, yung prosecution, sorry, pumapalpak-palpak kayo. There are times na naglalagay kayo ng mga witnesses dito na hindi naman kailangan talaga. Nagsasayang lang tayo ng oras. Nakikita naman yung mga senador inaantok. Yung iba pa na yung punta ng CR kasi wala eh. Parang useless eh. Di ba? So kukuha kayo ng witness. Make sure na talaga yung witness na yun. Merong masasabing bagay na makatulong sa ginagawa ng investigasyon dito sa impeachment. [unclear] kinuha na pinagtatawanan tuloy. Napapa-cute lang habang may kinakausap na witness na polis, etc. So, ingat kayo sa pagkukuha ng mga witness at ingat kayo sa pagsasalan ng mga abogado ninyo dyan.

**[00:14:22.470] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
We will take due notice and consider the advice of the Senator-Judge. Thank you very much.

**[00:14:26.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The remarks of the Honorable Tulfo are noted and the Prosecutor shall take it in advisement. Clerk is directed to kindly call and situate to the witness stand, Attorney Kathy Florence M. Baldonado.

**[00:15:08.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk is directed to administer the oath.

**[00:15:12.730] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Ma'am, please raise your right hand. You, Cathy Florence M. Baldonado, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.

**[00:15:28.930] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes, sir.

**[00:15:31.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Cathy, naunawaan niyo po ang inyong pinanumpaan kaugnay ng pagbigay niyo ng inyong testimonya ngayong umaga sa hukuman ito?

**[00:15:38.380] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, Your Honor.

**[00:15:40.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Salamat po. Kindly make your offer, Honorable Keith.

**[00:15:44.860] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the testimony of this witness is offered to prove the following. Number one, that the witness is the Register of Deeds of Davao City. Number two, that based on official records, there is a property covering 379 square meters in Barangay Matina, Davao City, registered under the name of Attorney Manases Carpio, married to Vice President Sara Duterte. Number three, that based on the deed of sale in the official record of the Register of Deeds, the property was purchased at 6 million pesos. 4. Until today,

**[00:16:19.830] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
the

**[00:16:19.870] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
property remains to be registered in the name of Atty. Manases Carpio, married to Vice President Sara Duterte, according to the official record of the Registry of Deeds. 5. All other matters relevant to Article 2 on unexplained wealth, false SALNs, and continued business interests. This witness, Your Honor, is one of the several prosecution witnesses who will establish that there were undeclared properties with the Vice President.

**[00:16:47.230] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Pero sa ordinaryang Pilipino po, malaking halaga na to ang 6 million pesos.

**[00:16:53.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Lindon?

**[00:16:56.700] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Good morning, Your Honor.

**[00:16:58.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Good morning.

**[00:16:59.460] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It is our position that the testimony of Atty. Baldonado is irrelevant, Your Honor, considering that in the articles of impeachment, there's no specific allegation as regards any particular real property which was not... Allegedly not disclosed in any of the SALN of the Vice President, Your Honor. As recently ruled by this honorable court, the impeachment is highly penal in character and thus the Bill of Rights apply in all stages of the proceedings. Without any specific allegations in the articles of impeachment, the presentation of The testimony of a witness would violate the respondent's right to be informed of the nature and cause of the allegations against him, Your Honor. Nonetheless, all the purposes are subject to cross-examination.

**[00:17:59.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Brief rejoinder, Honorable Keith.

**[00:18:01.880] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, we clearly mentioned in Article 2, particularly Paragraph B of the Articles of Impeachment, Your Honor, that one of the allegations is that the Vice President failed to disclose in her SALN all of her properties, Your Honor, and that it was impossible for us to have known of this property simply because it was not disclosed in the SALN, Your Honor.

**[00:18:21.920] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
If I may, Your Honor, a brief rejoinder.

**[00:18:24.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Brief rejoinder, Attorney Lindon.

**[00:18:27.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, the particular portion referred to by the prosecution are mere conclusions, Your Honor, particularly because in the articles of impeachment, the reference was only made to salaries, alleged business interests, and alleged suspicious and covert transactions, Your Honor, without mentioning any particular real property, Your Honor. So it is our position that the testimony of Atty. Baldonado would be irrelevant, Your Honor.

**[00:19:01.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The objection on relevance of Atty. Lindon is duly noted and will likewise note the continuing objection after the Court makes a ruling allowing the testimony of this witness given that the prosecution is not bound to so attach in its complaint or impeachment complaint any and all pieces of evidence it shall be presenting to prove. This particular article on ill-gotten or unexplained wealth. Would you like to note your continuing objection, Atty. Lindon?

**[00:19:31.560] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We do, Your Honor. Thank you.

**[00:19:33.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So noted. Atty. Keith, Hon. Keith, you may proceed with your witness.

**[00:19:37.720] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Atty. Baldonado, can you please state your full name and your position for the record?

**[00:19:44.940] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ako po si Atty. Cathy Florence Baldonado, ang kasalukuyang Register of Deeds ng Davao City po.

**[00:19:52.140] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
What is the mandate of the Register of Deeds?

**[00:19:56.440] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ako po bilang Register of Deeds ay nagre-rehistro o nagtatala po ng mga instrumento, mga dokumento po, or kasulatan regarding po ng mga real properties, particularly ang lupa po. At kami po yung nag-i-issue ng katibayan ng titulo at kami din po yung mga nagsi-safekeep or nagtatago ng mga records kaugnay dito po.

**[00:20:25.350] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Can you tell us why you're here today, Atty. Baldonado?

**[00:20:30.800] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Nakatanggap po ako ng subpoena po.

**[00:20:33.220] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And ano naman po ang sinabi ng subpoena na natanggap niya?

**[00:20:36.970] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang subpoena ko po ay maging witness ngayong araw na ito at meron din pong pinadala sa aking mga dokumento po.

**[00:20:49.490] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sa naaalala ko po, ang hinihingi po ay isang certified true copy at tatlong USB drive ng mga dokumentong hawak ko po.

**[00:21:03.330] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Ano po yung mga dokumento specifically na dala ninyo ngayon?

**[00:21:13.760] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
If I may, Your Honor, pwede ko pong tingnan isa-isa yung aking...

**[00:21:17.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, Attorney.

**[00:21:20.730] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang certified true copy po ng Transfer Certificate of Title Bilang 146-2024-010775.

**[00:21:36.740] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang deed of sale,

**[00:21:44.180] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
real property tax clearance,

**[00:21:48.120] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
official receipt ng transfer tax, certification, tax on transfer of real property ownership, ang tax declaration ng land at ng building nito. At ang e-car, pati na rin po itong nakanselang titulo kung saan ang galing itong transfer certificate of title number 146-2024010775.

**[00:22:27.100] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, may we ask for copies of the documents brought by the witness?

**[00:22:32.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Attorney, Atty. Cathy, yung USB po niyong dala, yung po ang naglalaman, yung mga dokumentong binanggit ninyo?

**[00:22:42.930] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[00:22:44.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung hard copy po, yan yung certified true copy?

**[00:22:47.010] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[00:22:48.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can you turn over please the USB so that tatlo po ang dala po ninyo?

**[00:22:58.520] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes, Your Honor. At yung isa po ay naibigay ko na po kanina po sa Clerk of Court.

**[00:23:04.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We will be printing it. Clerk of Court is directed to print the same and immediately furnish a copy to the Counsel for Respondent as well as to the Court. And in the meantime, Attorney Cathy, can you give one copy of the USB to the Counsel for the Respondent, Assistant Counsel for Respondent?

**[00:23:25.910] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:23:26.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So that they may start perusing it already through their laptop. as well as one USB for the counsel for the panel of prosecutors.

**[00:23:34.420] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And the documents, Your Honor?

**[00:23:37.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let the documents stay with her so that she can refer to it whenever necessary. You can refer to it, counsel, through perhaps a laptop.

**[00:23:51.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But we are having the documents photocopied already.

**[00:23:58.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Actually, we're giving copies to both parties now.

**[00:24:03.370] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:24:06.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Both parties?

**[00:24:09.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[00:24:12.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, you may proceed, Honorable Keith.

**[00:24:19.510] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May we request our assisting counsel, Attorney Hester, to bring the USB to the tech booth so

**[00:24:24.690] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
that

**[00:24:24.970] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
we could flash the documents?

**[00:24:27.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsel may do so. Likewise, continuing authority for assisting counsel of both parties is given throughout the testimony of Attorney Cathy.

**[00:24:43.280] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May I proceed, Your Honor?

**[00:24:44.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, Honorable Keith.

**[00:24:46.400] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Atty. Baldonado, you mentioned earlier that the copies that you brought were certified true copies. How would you know that these are certified true copies?

**[00:24:58.580] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ito pong dala ko ay isang certified true copy. Malalaman po natin ito dahil ito po ay espesyal na papel, sir. Tapos, meron po itong mga security features. Ito po ay eksklusibong ini-issue po ng Land Registration Authority. Meron po itong mga QR code. Halimbawa na po, meron siyang QR code sa itaas at kanang bahagi ng certified true copy. Meron din po itong serial number at barcode sa ilalim na kaliwang bahagi po ng dokumento at meron din po itong mga watermark, sir.

**[00:25:44.120] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
At

**[00:25:46.240] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
this point, may we ask that

**[00:25:51.180] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
the certified copy of TCT No. 146-2024010775 and all other documents, Your Honor, brought by the witness, be marked as our exhibit numbers P, Roman numeral 2, dash 4, dash 1, and series, Your Honor.

**[00:26:12.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So ordered, but Clerk of Courts shall do it at the proper time, not necessarily now.

**[00:26:17.910] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, Your Honor. May we then ask the tech booth, Your Honor, to flash on the screen, Your Honor, TCT number 146-2024010775, Your Honor.

**[00:26:29.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed.

**[00:26:34.220] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Atty. Baldonado, according

**[00:26:38.800] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
to the title, saan po ba located ang property na ito?

**[00:26:49.420] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa aming record, ito po ay situated in the barrio of Matina, city of Davao, island of Mindanao.

**[00:27:02.280] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Punta naman tayo sa e-car na dala ninyo.

**[00:27:08.690] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Based on the e-car na dala ninyo, ano din po ang nakasabi na location ng property?

**[00:27:23.110] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa record namin, ang location po ng property na ito ay Huna Subdivision, Matina Crossing, Talomo, Davao City, Davao del Sur po.

**[00:27:36.740] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Would you know if magkaiba ba ang Matina Crossing at barangay Matina? Atty. Baldonado?

**[00:27:48.410] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Okay, ulit po.

**[00:27:49.630] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Would you know if kaiba ba or different ba ang Barangay Matina at Matina Crossing?

**[00:27:55.370] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang Matina po ay mas malaki po ang area ng Matina po, Sir. Ang Matina Crossing po ay parte ng Matina po.

**[00:28:09.770] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So, part siya ng Matina?

**[00:28:11.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[00:28:11.850] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Alright. Now, based on the title, ano naman ang size ng property?

**[00:28:25.700] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sa pangalawang pahina po ng... Title na ito, nakalagay po na ito ay containing an area of 379 square meters more or less po.

**[00:28:38.410] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And based on the title, sino naman po ang nakalagay na registered owners ng property?

**[00:28:47.010] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ayon po dito sa record namin, ito ay pagmamayari ng isang nakapangalang attorney Manases R. Carpio, married to Sara Z. Duterte Carpio.

**[00:28:59.210] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Okay, and based on the title, ano naman po ang status ng title na ito?

**[00:29:05.730] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang status po ng titulong ito ay active po siya, sir.

**[00:29:12.350] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And when you say active, ano pong ibig sabihin na active title?

**[00:29:15.750] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ah, hindi po siya cancelado, sir.

**[00:29:19.620] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Attorney Baldonado, magkano naman po based on the deed of sale ang benta ng property na ito?

**[00:29:39.820] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa aming record, sir, ang... Ang consideration po dito ay 6 million pesos po.

**[00:29:48.410] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
6 million pesos. Now, kailan naman po binenta itong property na ito to the spouses, Atty. Manases Carpio and Sara Duterte?

**[00:30:01.360] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
July 2, 2004 po.

**[00:30:06.300] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
2000?

**[00:30:09.300] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
2024.

**[00:30:10.880] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
2024.

**[00:30:13.950] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
July 2024. Tawag ba?

**[00:30:17.270] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
July 2, 2024 po.

**[00:30:20.210] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Okay now, let's go to the third page of the title. May isang entry dyan. Ano po yung entry na number 2024-018983?

**[00:30:36.720] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa record namin, may nakalagay po na annotation, real estate mortgage. Basahin ko po ang buong nakasulat, sir.

**[00:30:47.860] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Please

**[00:30:48.040] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
do.

**[00:30:48.200] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Executed by Manases Reyes Carpio and Sara Zimmerman Duterte Carpio in favor of Philippine Savings Bank for the sum of 8 million pesos in accordance with doc number 231, page number 48. Book No. 39, Series of 2024 of Notary Public of Davao City, Atty. Cheryl Joy N. Castillo, dated August 27, 2024.

**[00:31:17.470] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So binili siya ng July for 6 million at minortgage on August 2024, the same year, for 8 million. Tama po ba?

**[00:31:27.470] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po dito sa dokumentong pinapakita ko, yes po.

**[00:31:31.650] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May request that SALN of the Vice President, Mark as our exhibit P-Roman numeral 2-1-1-R for the year 2025 be flashed on the screen, Your Honor.

**[00:31:46.230] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We would have to object, Your Honor.

**[00:31:50.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What's the basis, Attorney Lindon?

**[00:31:52.770] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can the document not be flashed before I lodge my objection, Your Honor?

**[00:31:59.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can we take it down for a while, Honorable Keith?

**[00:32:02.810] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, we object on the ground of incompetence, Your Honor, and no basis, Your Honor, considering that the witness would not know anything about the SALN of the Vice President and that the prosecution has yet to lay any foundational or testimonial evidence allowing them to show the SALN, Your Honor.

**[00:32:25.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Keith?

**[00:32:26.480] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, the SALN is a common exhibit for both the prosecution and the defense, Your Honor. We're not asking the witness to testify or analyze what's inside the SALN, Your Honor. All we're asking the witness, Your Honor, is to identify whether or not the details as mentioned in the title and in the deed of sale, Your Honor, are properly reflected in the list of properties that were declared by the Vice President in her SALN, Your Honor. She will not be testifying outside of the four corners of the SALN, Your Honor. She will just say whether or not the details as mentioned earlier are found or can be found. In the SALN of 2025, Your Honor.

**[00:33:31.390] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
The witness, Your Honor, all she has to do is actually say whether or not the details in this title and the deed of sale, Your Honor, can be found or located in the SALN of the Vice President, Your Honor.

**[00:33:43.780] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
If I may, Your Honor.

**[00:33:44.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Short surrebutal, Attorney Lindon.

**[00:33:50.820] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
If I may, Your Honor, that is not the import of the objection grounded on original document rule. The original document rule, Your Honor, prohibits any inquiry as regards the contents of the document and the only evidence admissible would be the document itself, Your Honor.

**[00:34:08.980] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Precisely, Your Honor.

**[00:34:10.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Final surrebuttal.

**[00:34:12.080] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. It will be the same document, Your Honor. All we are trying to ask, Your Honor, of the witness is that whether the amount, the date it was purchased, the location of the property that she just mentioned earlier can be found in the declaration. Made by the Vice President herself, Your Honor.

**[00:34:28.020] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Then, it's as if, Your Honor, the...

**[00:34:29.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi ko na alam kung anong tawag dun sa sasabihin mo pa ang Attorney Lindon, pero sige na, bago ako mag-ruling.

**[00:34:35.940] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Then, it's as if, Your Honor, the prosecution would be asking for the interpretation and the analysis of the witness, which would be another ground for objection, Your Honor, violation of opinion rule, Your Honor.

**[00:34:52.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Then, allow the court to do it. The SALNs were earlier identified and proven to have been authentic by a previous witness by the counsel for the panel of prosecutors. The SALNs were marked by both parties, duly sworn to by the Vice President, and thus far there is no evidence to show that the Vice President or the respondent has denied or is denying. The SALNs on record, not only before the Office of the Ombudsman but also before this Court. Let the Court abbreviate the proceedings by stating that the Court, the Presiding Officer, has looked into the SALN of the Vice President in 2025 and does not find this particular property as one of the real properties declared because we checked it. Against all of the declarations of the Vice President. In fact, it's not found in previous SALNs too, prior to 2025, for the information and guidance of the senator-judges, that I'm sure you'll also see and find when you compare it. But the objection of Attorney Lindon is duly noted.

**[00:36:10.160] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
May

**[00:36:10.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I make a manifest?

**[00:36:11.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Atty. Lindon.

**[00:36:14.740] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Just to set the record straight, Your Honor, we respectfully manifest that it would be erroneous for this Honorable Court to find that this property is not included in the SALN of the Vice President, Your Honor. While the property is described in the TCT as located in Matina, Davao City, and it's described in the other document as located in Matina Crossing, Davao City, Your Honor,

**[00:36:48.380] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Then this Honorable Court must take mandatory Judicial Notice of the Geographical Divisions in the Philippines that Matina Crossing is also known as Barangay 7-4-A, Your Honor, which is declared in the SALN.

**[00:37:05.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proper subject matter of cross during your time, counsel, but in the meantime, this particular property is not declared as such. I'm allowed the court to specify that and limit its statement. As such, without prejudice to a proper showing, during your time to cross, which property it refers to here, given the, as you said, the geographic location it may have and may be covered in the declared assets here.

**[00:37:33.720] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We'll do, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:37:36.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Subject to that qualification, you may proceed, Honorable Keith.

**[00:37:40.510] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. May we request our assisting counsel, Your Honor, to... Provide the witness with a copy of the 2025 SALN of the Vice President, Your Honor.

**[00:37:53.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsels may approach.

**[00:37:58.340] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Atty. Baldonado, you testified earlier na ang property na ito is located in Matina, Davao City, was purchased in July 2024, registered in the names of the Atty. Manases Carpio, and the Vice President, Sara Duterte, and was acquired for the sum of 6 million pesos.

**[00:38:26.690] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
I

**[00:38:27.210] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
would like you to go over the SALN of the Vice President, particularly the area which states the real properties of the Vice President.

**[00:38:36.730] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And

**[00:38:37.250] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
can you find these details from that document, Atty. Baldonado, that would fit the description? 6 million, Matina, and in the year 2024.

**[00:38:49.800] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
May I be given time to look over, sir?

**[00:38:52.400] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor,

**[00:38:55.380] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
after the witness peruses the document, may the respondent be given a similar time to peruse the SALN being confronted to the witness, Your Honor?

**[00:39:05.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[00:39:09.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Isn't this a common exhibit?

**[00:39:12.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is it a common exhibit, Attorney Lindon?

**[00:39:14.940] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
But, if I may, Your Honor, we marked our own documents so we just want to...

**[00:39:25.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May you

**[00:39:26.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
instruct your assisting counsel, Attorney Lindon, to... He's there anyway beside the witness. If you may confirm, if the copy that the witness is perusing is the same copy that you have.

**[00:39:40.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We will do that, Your Honor.

**[00:39:59.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
While we're waiting, for the record, for the information of the Senator, judges, and the viewing public as well. The problem with the SALN is that it does not require the actual area to be stated. It only makes mention of the area. Sometimes it's even redacted. So the earlier statement of the chair that it did not find this property exactly is because there is no one-to-one correspondence between what was stated in the TCT and the deed of sale. But the areas are too generic to identify and find out. However, in the 2025 SALN of the Vice President, there is no mention of a sale of a new property to Attorney Manases Carpio in the amount of 6 million. There is a sale made mention here as identified earlier by Attorney Lindon. of a parcel of land in 76A Davao City, but the amount of acquisition is 10 million. And a sale of a property in Dumoy, Davao City, but the acquisition cost is 2 million. So walang one-to-one, unless later on, again, it is explained and shown to us which one it is and if it is one of these. And I think the Register of Deeds will be in a position. to hopefully assist us in this because she would know the area. Kasi di ba meron po kayong mapa sa inyong tanggapan para makita kung ano talaga yung loteng binili ng kada TCT base na rin po sa tax dec?

**[00:41:46.430] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
If I may, Your Honor, ang ano lang po namin is ang aming pong mandato, we are only ministerial, Your Honor. Pag tinignan po namin ang dokumento na kompleto, Amin po itong nire-registro. Hindi po sa lahat ng panahon meron po siyang mapa. Kung buo naman po itong property katulad nito, wala po siyang naka-attach na mapa po.

**[00:42:14.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So ang nakakaalam po ay yung city assessor kung sa kasakali, siya po yung may kompletong mapa?

**[00:42:21.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would

**[00:42:22.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you know?

**[00:42:25.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Only if you know, Atty. Cathy?

**[00:42:27.850] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[00:42:29.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So hindi niyo po alam sa register of deeds?

**[00:42:31.840] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[00:42:32.510] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po. Hindi po siya kasama sa jurisdiction po namin.

**[00:42:36.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, base po sa dokumentong tinitingnan nyo, kaya nyo bang sabihin kung may katapat na lote yan o hindi po?

**[00:42:45.180] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Your Honor, ang tangi ko lang pong maikukumpirma ay kung meron bang nag-match dito sa entries na nakalagay sa SAL-N kung iba base po sa dokumento na nakapresentar. Kung may nagmamatch ba o wala. Pero hindi po ako ang tamang tao na makakadetermine kung nai-declare ba siya o hindi.

**[00:43:09.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, [unclear]. Wala po kayo nakikitang may biniling lupain ng 6 na milyon base sa deed of sale na hawak niyo?

**[00:43:17.690] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po dito sa record na hawak ko, Sir, Your Honor, wala po sa 2024 at... 2025.

**[00:43:28.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi po mag-appear yan sa 2024, Atty. Cathy, dahil kung yung deed of sale ay 2024, July 2, kailangan po yung i-declare ng 2025, hindi po sa 2024. Pang-2023 po yung 2024.

**[00:43:43.210] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Wala

**[00:43:43.810] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
po

**[00:43:43.890] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
dito, Your Honor.

**[00:43:45.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Wala po kayo nakitang katugma sa...

**[00:43:47.690] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Wala pong nag-match.

**[00:43:48.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sa presyo, pati

**[00:43:50.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ba sa lugar?

**[00:43:51.050] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sa presyo at sa lugar po at... Ang mode of acquisition po ang nakalagay po sa 2025 ay construction po. At dito po sa aming dokumento ay deed of sale po.

**[00:44:10.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May nakalagay din po 2024 sale. Kita niyo po yan?

**[00:44:15.800] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo. Pero ang purchase price po dito ay wala pong 6 million po, Sir.

**[00:44:22.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
10 million po nakalagay.

**[00:44:25.230] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ten million po at two million po ang nakalagay.

**[00:44:28.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
E yung lugar po, familiar po ba kayo sa lugar kung pareho o hindi?

**[00:44:34.840] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po, Your Honor.

**[00:44:38.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Your witness, Honorable Keith.

**[00:44:41.990] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Actually, that will be all for our direct, Your Honor.

**[00:44:46.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon, you want... Do you need time to do your cross to review the sale and the documents? Because we can proceed to the next witness if you're not yet ready to do your cross.

**[00:44:57.420] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor. We would need time to peruse the documents brought by the witness, Your Honor.

**[00:45:02.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In that case, we will temporarily excuse Attorney Cathy.

**[00:45:09.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pansamantala po muna namin kayong ipagpapaliban sa inyong testimonya. Ma'am Cathy, upo muna po kayo doon.

**[00:45:17.280] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:45:18.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You?re excused, ma'am. To make use of the court's time, we shall proceed with the next witness, the direct examination of the next witness. Atty.

**[00:45:36.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pineda?

**[00:45:38.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Marco Pineda, kindly situate Atty. Marco Pineda to the witness stand.

**[00:45:46.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The clerk of court through [unclear], so directed.

**[00:45:59.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Cathy, you may... Doon muna po kayo sa holding area para hindi po kayo ma-stress dyan.

**[00:46:08.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tsaka pwede po kayo matulog muna sandali.

**[00:46:12.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Huwag lang po dyan.

**[00:47:12.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For the information of the Council for the Parties, the witness answered to the call of nature for a bit.

**[00:47:22.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Can we situate Ms. Atty. Pineda to the witness stand?

**[00:47:38.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to the witness.

**[00:47:41.970] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Sir, can you raise your right hand? You, Marco K. Pineda. Do swear that the evidence that you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.

**[00:48:19.500] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
that the testimony of this witness is offered to prove the following, Your Honor. Number one, that the witness is the acting Register of Deeds of the Island Garden City of Samal, Davao del Norte. Number two, that based on official records, there's

**[00:48:32.770] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
a property in the Island Garden City of Samal, Davao del Norte with TCT number 142-2019-013-134 registered under the name of Attorney Manases Carpio, married to Vice President Sara Duterte. 3. Based on the deed of sale in the official record of the Registry of Deeds, the property was purchased in 2018 for 3,453,849. 4. Since 2018 until today, the property remains to be registered in the name of Atty. Manases Carpio, married to Vice President Sara Duterte according to the official record of the Registry of Deeds. 5. All other matters relevant to Article 2 on Unexplained Wealth, false SALNs, and continued business interests. This witness also, Your Honor, will testify that some of the properties were not duly declared by the Vice President. Maari pong sabihin na, again, ilang milyong piso lang ito, but para sa iba, malaking mahalaga na po itong 3.4 million pesos, Your Honor.

**[00:49:39.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon, do you want to repeat or simply copy-paste what you said earlier?

**[00:49:46.670] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor...

**[00:49:47.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly repeat it for the record, nevertheless.

**[00:49:50.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We just put on record that we adopt the same objection as to relevance and comment as to that the purposes of the offer of the witness is subject to cross-examination, Your Honor.

**[00:50:04.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Duly noted and the continuing objection along the same lines of the earlier witness is also Duly noted.

**[00:50:15.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Flores, you may proceed with your direct examination.

**[00:50:18.820] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. [unclear], Atty. Pineda.

**[00:50:22.520] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Good

**[00:50:22.740] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
morning, sir.

**[00:50:25.140] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Can you please state your full name and your position, Atty. Pineda?

**[00:50:29.940] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir. I am Atty. Marco K. Pineda, Deputy Register of Deeds III, designated presently as the Acting Register of Deeds of the Island Garden City of Samal, concurrently serving as an Assisting Register of Deeds of the Davao City.

**[00:50:44.940] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Now, as Acting Register of Deeds, ano po yung mandate ng Register of Deeds?

**[00:50:50.350] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Pag sinasabi pong mandate, nakabatay po yan sa batas, Section 10 po ng Presidential Decree 1529. It is the solemn duty of all Register of Deeds to act as custodians of records pertaining to land titles. Kami po ang ambakan o repositorio ng lahat ng mga titulo at ari-arian personal or real sa Pilipinas. Tsaka tungkulin po namin, Sir, na

**[00:51:18.830] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Kung mayroon pong mga dokumentong sinusumite sa aming tanggapan, ito po'y aming tungkulin na suriin kung ito ba'y kompleto. At kung ito po'y kompleto at dumaan sa tamang notaryo at bayad po ang karampatang buwis, ay amin po itong agad-agad bilang ministerial officers na i-rehistro na walang pagkaantala.

**[00:51:40.960] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Ano naman po ang area or jurisdiction ng opisina ninyo?

**[00:51:45.740] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Ang area po ng Samal po, ang Samal po kasi ay napapailalim sa Batas Public Act 8471 bilang isang component city ng probinsya ng Davao del Norte. Kaya po ang aming tanggapan ay nagkikater sa buong probinsya ng Davao del Norte kasama po rito po ang siyudad ng Tagom, ang siyudad ng Panabo, ang siyudad ng

**[00:52:14.030] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Island Garden City of Samal, at ang buong probinsya po.

**[00:52:19.740] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Again, Atty.

**[00:52:20.620] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Pineda, can you tell us why you're

**[00:52:22.120] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
here today?

**[00:52:23.640] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Nakatanggap po ako ng subpoena mula po sa kagalanggalang na hukuman na ito.

**[00:52:29.830] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Ano naman po ang sinabi ng subpoena?

**[00:52:32.760] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Isinubiti ko po sa clerk of court kaninang umaga. Hindi ko na po masyadong memoriado po ang exact words na nakasulat po roon. If my memory serves me right, it required me to submit All the documents pertaining to that certain title as projected on screen, sir, earlier.

**[00:52:52.680] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And dala niyo naman yung titles at saka other documents required of you by the subpoena?

**[00:52:57.260] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo.

**[00:53:00.080] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Dala mo ngayon?

**[00:53:01.400] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be allowed, sir, to get it from my records officer, sir?

**[00:53:05.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so.

**[00:53:10.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly assist the witness if necessary.

**[00:53:17.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, assisting counsels from both sides may approach the witness at any point in time that they deem necessary.

**[00:53:39.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the meantime, the court is instructing the clerk of court through the OSAA to furnish hard copies of what's contained in the USB and what the witness is referring to at the moment.

**[00:53:56.140] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:54:14.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please proceed. By the way, apologies. Would you rather refer... How do you want to be referred to? John or Keith or...

**[00:54:21.200] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
I'm comfortable with any...

**[00:54:22.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
How are you referred to by day? John?

**[00:54:27.570] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes,

**[00:54:28.130] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
sir.

**[00:54:28.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would

**[00:54:28.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You prefer John?

**[00:54:30.180] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Fine, Your Honor.

**[00:54:31.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again?

**[00:54:32.340] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
It's okay.

**[00:54:33.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[00:54:34.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So let it be Attorney John then.

**[00:54:39.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, sir.

**[00:54:42.720] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:54:50.120] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Attorney Pineda, what type of copies did you bring today?

**[00:54:55.170] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sunod ko lang po to the letter po yung nakasulat po sa subpoena testificandum, at saka duces tecum. Nakalagay po rin, that I have to bring with me before this honorable court, three USB flash drives copy of all the documents. At the same time, one certified true copy of all the documents pertaining to this case, for your honor.

**[00:55:19.320] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May I ask you, honor, if the defense is willing to stipulate that these are certified true copy so that we don't have to go through questioning them about...

**[00:55:26.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly, so the... Assisting Council, kindly inspect the copies if they are certified.

**[00:55:33.670] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
The Assisting Counsel will check, Your Honor.

**[00:55:36.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[00:55:40.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Marco, sino po nang certify nito?

**[00:55:43.660] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sir, Your Honor, the office is under the so-called PHILARIS system. This is the Philippine Land Registration Utilization Titling System. So all register of deeds across the island issues this special paper. as proof of its being the repository of custodians of all titles in the Philippines.

**[00:56:06.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So that this machine produced need not be signed by anyone?

**[00:56:10.110] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir, as it is already apparent on the face of the CTC, sir. There is that wording there.

**[00:56:16.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
If

**[00:56:17.430] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I may quote, sir?

**[00:56:18.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please proceed, sir.

**[00:56:22.750] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
This is the tax declaration, for example, Your Honor, tax declaration of real property. On the bottom portion, and I quote, It is hereby certified that this is a true electronic copy on file in the Registry of Deeds of the Province of Davao del Norte. It consists of one pages, pages, quote-unquote, S. This is a system-generated certified true copy and does not require manually affixed signature printed at the Registry of Deeds of the Province of Davao del Norte. Requested by Atty. Marco K. Pineda po.

**[00:56:56.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Thank you for that.

**[00:57:00.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Marco, do you need to stipulate or will the court issue? Yes, Atty. Lindon.

**[00:57:06.120] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate that the documents are certified copies, Your Honor.

**[00:57:09.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. So stipulated. Thank you, Atty. Lindon. You may proceed, Atty. John.

**[00:57:13.280] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Atty. I'll say thank you, sir. At this point, Your Honor may request that the documents be respectively marked as exhibits numbers P-Roman numeral 2-4-2 and series, Your Honor.

**[00:57:29.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted, so ordered, but at a later time by the Clerk of Court.

**[00:57:33.420] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May we then ask the Tech Booth, Your Honor, to please flash on the screen TCT No. 142-2019-013134.

**[00:57:43.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Tech is so authorized to flash before the screen the requested document.

**[00:58:45.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, what happened to the Tech?

**[00:58:49.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Was the USB copy given to the Tech?

**[00:58:55.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Nabigay po ba, Honorable Flores?

**[00:58:58.980] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:59:02.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May

**[00:59:10.240] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
we know, Your Honor, if the defense is also willing to stipulate on the title to abbreviate the proceedings?

**[00:59:17.070] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor. Yes, we can stipulate.

**[00:59:20.150] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So, stipulated.

**[00:59:23.130] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So, I have several things to offer, Your Honor, so that we can abbreviate things. That the size

**[00:59:31.990] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
of the property is 751 square meters as stated by the title. Will you stipulate?

**[00:59:42.800] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Just a moment, Your Honor. We're just perusing the title here.

**[00:59:47.780] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We shall await.

**[01:00:42.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Atty. Lindon?

**[01:00:44.000] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate on that, Your Honor.

**[01:00:47.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
751 square meters. What else, Atty. John?

**[01:00:49.960] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Will the defense stipulate that the registered owners of the property are Atty. Manases Carpio, married to the Vice President, Sara Duterte.

**[01:00:59.160] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor. We stipulate that that is how it's described in the title, Your Honor.

**[01:01:05.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As contained in the title?

**[01:01:06.940] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yeah, as contained in the title, Your Honor.

**[01:01:08.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated?

**[01:01:10.250] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And that the property is situated in Matanos, Island Garden City of Samal.

**[01:01:16.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon?

**[01:01:18.070] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate that it's how it's stated in the title, Your Honor.

**[01:01:25.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated as contained in the title.

**[01:01:28.050] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And that from the deed of sale, the property was bought by the spouses for the sum of 3,458,849 pesos, Your Honor.

**[01:01:38.700] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We will just peruse the deed of sale, Your Honor.

**[01:01:41.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly do so.

**[01:02:16.750] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate, Your Honor, that as annotated in the said title, the amount is 3,453,849 pesos, Your Honor.

**[01:02:27.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated, duly noted.

**[01:02:34.420] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Attorney Pineda, the

**[01:02:39.380] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
title says that the property is situated in Matanos Island, Garden City of Samal. The deed of sale however, says that it's a Kembali Resort where

**[01:02:53.290] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
the property is Situated.

**[01:02:57.220] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Is Kembali Resort in Matanos Island, Garden City of Samal.

**[01:03:02.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be allowed to peruse the...

**[01:03:04.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so, Attorney.

**[01:03:05.930] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:03:22.750] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:03:24.030] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As appearing in the transfer certificate of title on the face of the said title, Your Honor, sir, it reads, reads, The land situated in Matanos Island, Garden City of Samal, Province of Davao del Norte, Philippines. End of quote.

**[01:03:43.260] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And when was the property purchased by the spouses based on the deed of sale?

**[01:03:51.350] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Come again, sir, when?

**[01:03:52.330] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
When?

**[01:04:04.030] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As appearing on the face of the said CTC copy of the deed of absolute sale, sir, it reads, and I quote, March 15, 2018 po.

**[01:04:16.540] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
2018. At this point, may request from the defense counsels kasi they got a copy of the sale. Pabalik lang po. There.

**[01:04:30.510] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you. So ang property is binili noong 20 March 2018 and it's situated in Matanos Island, Garden City of Samal by the spouses, Atty. Manases Carpio, married to Vice President Sara Duterte for the sum of 3,458,849,000. Tama po ba Atty. Pineda?

**[01:04:59.650] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sir, ang nakasulat po rito ay babasahin ko po.

**[01:05:03.960] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
3

**[01:05:04.380] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
,453,849 pesos po.

**[01:05:10.780] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Nasa

**[01:05:11.220] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
pangalawang pahina po ng DOAS or Deed of Absolute Sale.

**[01:05:14.940] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So 3,453,849 million. Tama. Is that correct?

**[01:05:22.610] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:05:23.770] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Sorry, I mentioned 8. Ako pala ang mali. Sorry. Now, we're showing to you the SALN of the Vice President for the year 2025.

**[01:05:34.350] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor.

**[01:05:37.100] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We raised the same objection as to incompetence, lack of foundation, and violation of the opinion rule and relevance, Your Honor.

**[01:05:49.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Same ruling of the court. In fact, allow the court once again. Atty.

**[01:05:55.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Marco, sa anong year binili po yung property? 2018, [unclear]?

**[01:06:10.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sa

**[01:06:10.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2019 SALN ng ikalawang Pangulo, may nakalagay po doon na Barangay Aundanao, Igakos.

**[01:06:23.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Nakikita niyo po ba yan sa 2019 Sal-N niya? Kindly show the 2019 Sal-N to the witness.

**[01:06:31.420] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Apologies, Your Honor, I cannot read what's projected on screen.

**[01:06:37.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Exactly. The Presiding Officer is asking the Assisting Counsel to kindly show the 2019 SALN of the Vice President.

**[01:06:43.110] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
We'll provide him with the 2019 SALN, Your Honor.

**[01:06:59.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May nakalagay po dyan sa bandang gitnang baba.

**[01:07:04.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tatlong property. Yung isa't nakalagay puro Aundanao. Ano po ba ang pronunciation ng itong barangay na ito? Atty.

**[01:07:15.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Aundanao. Atty. Marco? Aundanao ba ang pronunciation po dyan?

**[01:07:19.450] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Aundanao po.

**[01:07:20.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Aundanao. Tatlo po ang properties na nakalagay sa bandang kalahating baba na parte ng SALN.

**[01:07:29.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Aundanao-IGACOS 2016 sale, Aundanao-IGACOS 2019 sale, Aundanao-IGACOS 2019 sale.

**[01:07:40.010] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo, Your Honor.

**[01:07:41.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Doon sa 2019 sale, may nakalagay po na dalawang 1,000,000 at dalawang tag-500,000 sa kabuhang halaga na 3,000,000.

**[01:07:55.780] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:07:58.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Meron po ba kayo nakikitang tumutugma dito sa 3.453 million na deed of sale kaugnay sa pagbili ng lupa dyan sa Aundanao, IGACOS?

**[01:08:12.670] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Your Honor, [unclear]. Your Honor, ako po ay custodian ng land titles. Hindi po kami custodian po ng SALN po.

**[01:08:26.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Opo, pero ang tanong ko po, meron po bang katumbas o tumutugmang halaga dyan sa nakikita nyo?

**[01:08:33.100] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I can only read what is strictly written on the paper, Sir, Your Honor, and does not match the deed of sale.

**[01:08:41.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now, yung deed of sale ba, dalawang lote ba yung binenta o isa lang?

**[01:08:47.570] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Insofar as this title is concerned, there is only one, Your Honor.

**[01:08:51.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There is only one parcel of land, not two parcels of land.

**[01:08:55.060] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Not two parcels, sir.

**[01:08:56.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon?

**[01:08:57.720] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, just for the record, may we know what year of SALN is the document?

**[01:09:03.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2019. I'm referring to 2019, Attorney Lindon.

**[01:09:06.920] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:09:09.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
During your cross, Attorney Lindon, you can clarify this matter on the part of the court.

**[01:09:14.820] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We will, Your Honor.

**[01:09:16.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you.

**[01:09:17.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your witness, Attorney John?

**[01:09:21.020] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Attorney Pineda. So, based on the... Three identifiers na sinabi namin. The amount, the location, and the year it was bought. May mahanap ka bang entry dyan sa salen na yan?

**[01:09:39.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir. I can only read what strictly appears on the document. I cannot draw conclusions, sir.

**[01:09:46.710] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Based

**[01:09:47.270] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
on that premise, nothing in this salen perfectly matches the DOAS sale, sir.

**[01:09:59.150] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So there's nothing in the title that would say that the property was purchased by Atty. Manassas Carpio, the Vice President, in the year 2018 for the sum of 3,453,849 for a property that is located in Barangay Matanos, Island Garden, City of Samal.

**[01:10:18.190] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
As he answered, Your Honor.

**[01:10:35.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes,

**[01:10:36.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Lindon, my apologies.

**[01:10:38.600] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We withdraw the objection, Your Honor.

**[01:10:41.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you.

**[01:10:42.060] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
My

**[01:10:42.460] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
question, Your Honor, was that I was just asking Atty. Pineda whether or not he could find an entry in the SALN that would reflect a deed of property that was bought. It's located in Matanos Island, Garden City of Samal in the year 2018 for the sum of 3,453,849 [unclear].

**[01:11:02.070] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Your Honor, for the end time, I will reiterate my position and my statement that I can only read what is patent on the paper, sir. That is because I'm a ministerial officer. Subject to that qualification,

**[01:11:14.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
subject to that qualification to your answer, Atty. Marco, you may respond.

**[01:11:22.820] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor. I can read here, agricultural land located at Barangay Undanaw, Igacos, land area 2700, rather

**[01:11:40.620] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
this is assessed value, sir, bought

**[01:11:45.810] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
sometime in 2019. Another land, agricultural,

**[01:11:53.680] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
classified as agricultural, Barangay Undanaw, IGaCoS, land, land, 2019, mode of acquisition, sale, valued at 1 million, land, 2019 sale, also sold, valued at 1 million, land, agricultural, Barangay Undanaw, IGaCoS, land, 2019 sale, 500,000, 2 entries, 500,000.

**[01:12:20.060] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Your Honor.

**[01:12:20.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[01:12:22.490] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So wala po?

**[01:12:24.330] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Nothing matches the land described in the deed of absolute sale dated 2018, sir.

**[01:12:30.810] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Now, ano ang status ng title na ito? Ito ang TCT number 142-2019-013134.

**[01:12:40.450] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As

**[01:12:40.890] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
apparent on the face of the title, transfer certificate of title, sir, it is uncanceled, it is active.

**[01:12:47.190] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So when you say it's an active title, what does it mean?

**[01:12:49.630] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
It means that it is... Still the same title, it reflects because we adhere to the so-called mirror principle. All the details as reflected on the face of the title ay sumasalamin po sa lahat ng legal na detalye, interes hinggil sa lupa.

**[01:13:07.550] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
That will be all for our direct, Your Honor.

**[01:13:09.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Do you want to do your cross with this witness, First Lieutenant Lindon, or the first witness?

**[01:13:13.280] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, can we request to, can we be allowed to do the cross after lunch, Your Honor, so that we can prepare the necessary visuals?

**[01:13:22.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the order that they were presented.

**[01:13:24.640] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:13:25.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We can again call for an early lunch. The only question is if the food is already available because the last time it was not.

**[01:13:34.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Are there any Senator-Judges who wishes to make interjections to this witness?

**[01:13:43.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We're trying to make use of the time so if you can make your interjections now, it would be preferred unless they are not yet ready.

**[01:14:00.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, it'll be brunch then. I hope the food is ready. We shall convene.

**[01:14:07.400] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes,

**[01:14:08.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the Honorable Luistro, recognize.

**[01:14:11.470] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
In preparation to the prosecution's presentation of the AMLC Director, Executive Director, Your Honor, we just want to put on record that the witness sent copy of the summaries prepared by them to the Honorable Impeachment Court, including the parties. and they will be part of the presentation of this witness, Your Honor. That is, in order not to delay the presentation on matters concerning the summaries, we wish to put on record that including the defense, I believe, was sent copy of this summaries, Your Honor. And for purposes of the records, we wish to enumerate this summaries prepared and submitted by AMLC. This includes the summary of covered transaction reports and suspicious transaction reports submitted by the Anti-Money Laundering Council to the Senate Impeachment Court. Second, Your Honor, is the summary of all CTRs and CTRs involving 15 juridical persons from 2007 to 2025. The third, Your Honor, is all CTRs and STRs involving Vice President Sara Z. Duterte and Attorney Manassas R. Carpio, likewise from 2022 or from 2022 to 2025. The fourth summary, Your Honor, is all CTRs and STRs involving the 15 juridical persons from 2022 to 2025. The fifth, Your Honor, CTRs and STRs pertaining to inward remittances. to Cale88 Foods Corporations from China, and B, other countries. And for the last summary, Your Honor, CTRs and STRs involving insurance policies and investment-related transactions. We wish to seek confirmation from the defense that they received copy of the summaries from the AMLC, Your Honor.

**[01:16:26.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Sheila, can you confirm?

**[01:16:27.570] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Good

**[01:16:27.690] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
morning, Your Honor. Unfortunately, Your Honor, we have not received any of the documents mentioned by the lead prosecutor, Your Honor. I just checked my email now and I don't see any email coming from the AMLC or the prosecution. I was also informed that we haven't also received yet. Any hard copies, Your Honor. In fact, this is the first time that we're hearing of these summaries. The

**[01:16:58.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clerk is directed to obtain a copy from the prosecution and furnish the counsel for respondent a copy in accordance with the court's earlier ruling that any summaries that a witness that will be presented will be identifying should be furnished. Counsel for respondent and the opposing party. As the case may be. So ordered.

**[01:17:31.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Anything else, Attorney? Honorable Luistro, rather?

**[01:17:34.800] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes,

**[01:17:35.240] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor. Since we are concluding early for our morning trial, I would like to proceed to our manifestation which we are supposed to make after lunch, Your Honor, if the court will allow.

**[01:17:49.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, after lunch. Ah, you want to do it now?

**[01:17:52.580] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:17:53.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so. We're early anyway. The food

**[01:17:55.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
might not be available

**[01:17:56.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
yet.

**[01:17:57.360] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Thank you, Your Honor. First, Your Honor, the prosecution has finally decided not to present former Senator Sonny Trillanes. We seek the kind indulgence of the Honorable Impeachment Court for the belated final position on this particular concern. Second, Your Honor, pursuant to the directive of the Honorable Impeachment Court, we are respectfully submitting The order of presentation of witnesses as follows. For October 2, Friday, that is tomorrow, Your Honor, we anticipate the continuation of presentation of the AMLC Executive Director. We lament, Your Honor, that we have no other witness to be presented tomorrow. Thus, we will be constrained to move for the deferment of presentation. Should the AMLC Executive Director conclude early his presentation on Friday?

**[01:19:04.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So we only have one witness for tomorrow and if at all that will be the continuation of the testimony of the AMLC Director.

**[01:19:12.070] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
That is correct, Your Honor. To continue, Your Honor, for Monday, October 5, we will be presenting the BIR and for Tuesday, October 6, we will be presenting the representatives of banks and insurance companies. And it is in this light, Your Honor, that we respectfully reiterate our request for issuance of subpoena to BIR as well as the representatives of banks and insurance companies.

**[01:19:41.780] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Number 3, Your Honor.

**[01:19:44.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Insofar as the banks are concerned, do you have a sequence already, Honorable Luistro? You have here seven banks. Is it, will it be as it appears in your request for subpoena?

**[01:20:00.580] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We intend, Your Honor, to present them on Tuesday. On Monday, Monday

**[01:20:06.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
or Tuesday, I guess.

**[01:20:06.880] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Tuesday, Your Honor, or Monday, if the BIR will conclude early.

**[01:20:10.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[01:20:11.080] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
In the same order, Your Honor, as mentioned in the request, Your Honor. So,

**[01:20:16.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for the record and for the information of counsel-respondent, the order shall be after AMLC, BIR, on Monday. And then, insofar as the banks are concerned, Land Bank, Asia United Bank, Philippine Savings Bank, Metro Bank, BPI, PNB, and finally, BDO.

**[01:20:40.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And for the insurance companies, Honorable Luistro, also in the same order that they appear in your request for subpoena?

**[01:20:49.100] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We confirm, Your Honor.

**[01:20:50.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So for the record, that will be Prudential Life, Allianz,

**[01:20:57.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Manufacturers Life, FWD Life, BPI-AIA Life, BDO Securities, and BDO Life. In that order. Would that be correct, Honorable Luistro?

**[01:21:09.960] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
That is correct, Your Honor.

**[01:21:11.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Chair, hereby grants the request for the issuance of subpoena, duces tecum, and ad testificandum to the BIR as well as the banks and insurance companies named In the request for subpoena with a caveat or change that it shall be for Monday and Tuesday, October 5 and 6.

**[01:21:37.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To be certain that we have enough time for all of these. So ordered.

**[01:21:42.260] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor.

**[01:21:45.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Sheila is recognized before the Honorable Senator Judge Sotto.

**[01:21:50.190] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Just the two items. Just to clarify,

**[01:21:55.440] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Will the prosecution no longer present the former Senator Trillanes completely? Which means that they will no longer or they have removed him from their list of witness or are they just deferring on the presentation of the former Senator?

**[01:22:12.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Luistro?

**[01:22:13.620] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
As manifested already, Your Honor, we will no longer be presenting the former Senator Sonny Trillanes.

**[01:22:20.600] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
So they will now drop this particular witness, Your Honor?

**[01:22:23.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Effectively, yes, Attorney Sheila.

**[01:22:24.740] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
second item, Your Honor, may we also ask the prosecution if they can provide us copies of any summaries or other documents that the witnesses for the Insurance Commission and BIR as well as the banks. Would identify so that we'll have ample time to examine them. Based

**[01:22:49.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
on the earlier ruling of the court, yes, the court will grant that request of Attorney Sheila, kindly furnished as you did with AMLC, Honorable Luistro. We

**[01:22:58.260] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
submit, Your Honor.

**[01:22:59.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any summaries that the witnesses may present during their testimony ahead of time.

**[01:23:04.420] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We submit.

**[01:23:04.980] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you.

**[01:23:06.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Senator-Judge Sotto is recognized.

**[01:23:13.670] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. President. Thank you. Just some trivia questions for Attorney Pineda, if you don't mind. Anyway, we have time.

**[01:23:24.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, please. You may proceed, Senator Judge Sotto. You have two minutes.

**[01:23:29.230] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Your Register of Deeds of the Island Garden City of Samal.

**[01:23:34.300] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Your Honor, I am merely the Acting Register of Deeds of the Island Garden City.

**[01:23:37.900] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Acting Register of Deeds. How long have you been in the Samal City?

**[01:23:42.330] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Four years, Your Honor.

**[01:23:43.390] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Four years only? So in 1998, you were not in Samal?

**[01:23:48.630] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No, sir. No, Your Honor.

**[01:23:50.650] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Did you know that Samal City used to have three municipalities and no city?

**[01:23:57.450] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
You did not know that, no?

**[01:23:58.940] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I did not know that, Your Honor.

**[01:24:00.260] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
Anyway, the island of Samal used to be three municipalities.

**[01:24:11.140] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
It was converted into one city after convincing the three mayors and all the register of deeds people then to make it into one island garden city of Samal in 1998. Just as I said, it's just a trivia. Did you know who made the city of island garden of city of Samal?

**[01:24:34.230] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No. I

**[01:24:35.530] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
think it's one

**[01:24:36.670] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Senator Tito Sotto, Your Honor.

**[01:24:39.360] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
You're correct. Thank you. I have no more questions, Mr. President.

**[01:24:46.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Following the footsteps of Senator-Judge Sotto, Sorsogon did the same thing. We merged two towns to form the city of Sorsogon and we relied on the Supreme Court decision in the island city of Samal that said that you can actually merge and create at the same time in one law. and that it will not violate the one subject matter that should be contained in the Title Rule found in the Constitution. And both laws were declared constitutional by the Supreme Court. So anyway, we shall pause for lunch. We shall resume at 12.30 with the first witness earlier presented, Attorney Baldonado of the City of Davao. You are excused and kindly partake of lunch. Atty. Marco.

**[01:25:39.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Trial is in recess.

**[02:34:05.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly situate Atty. Cathy to the witness stand.

**[02:34:13.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The clerk of court through the sergeant at arms is so directed.

**[02:34:26.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm assuming you have a cross right, Atty. Lindon?

**[02:34:32.000] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:34:34.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi kasi kung wala, hindi ko na papaupuin si Atty. Cathy.

**[02:34:41.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Cathy, naunawaan niyo po na patuloy kayong tetestigo basis sa nauna po niyong pinanumpaan kaninang umaga.

**[02:34:52.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly answer, ma'am, so that we can have it on record.

**[02:34:55.340] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:34:56.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon, your witness. You may proceed with your cross when you're ready.

**[02:35:00.000] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, ma'am. Good

**[02:35:03.140] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
afternoon, sir.

**[02:35:04.000] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Ma'am, you are a lawyer, correct?

**[02:35:06.100] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:35:06.860] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And you are also the Register of Deeds for Davao City?

**[02:35:11.500] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:35:12.570] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And you are testifying here in that capacity, ma'am?

**[02:35:15.610] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:35:17.240] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
The Registry of Deeds is the public repository of records or instruments affecting registered lands, tama po?

**[02:35:24.780] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:35:25.600] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It has also the duty to immediately register an instrument for registration dealing with real property, tama po?

**[02:35:34.090] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Provided po na na-comply nila lahat ng requirements for

**[02:35:40.150] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
registration.

**[02:35:41.350] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Being

**[02:35:42.110] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
the public repository of records of lands, ma'am, The title you identified is public correct?

**[02:35:49.710] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:35:50.470] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And anyone can request for a copy of that title?

**[02:35:53.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:35:54.510] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
The requesting person does not need to be the owner of that property correct?

**[02:35:59.130] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:35:59.690] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
He does not need to have an interest over that property correct?

**[02:36:03.670] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:36:04.880] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
You are also aware that before a title may be transferred to another person or may be issued

**[02:36:12.920] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
He or she must submit a certificate authorizing registration regarding payment of transfer taxes from the Bureau of Internal Revenue, real property tax clearance from the local government unit concerned, and proof of payment of transfer taxes. Correct ma'am?

**[02:36:28.360] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes po, tama po.

**[02:36:29.360] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
These are the requirements so that your office knows that the proper taxes have been paid. Correct ma'am?

**[02:36:35.460] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:36:36.500] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And you would not transfer a title or issue a title without submission of these requirements, correct?

**[02:36:42.890] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:36:43.530] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. And in the title you identified, it was issued to Manassas R. Carpio, correct?

**[02:36:51.520] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes po, base po sa aming record.

**[02:36:53.340] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. The Registry of Deeds, ma'am, is not the repository of SALNs of any public official or employee, correct?

**[02:37:02.130] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:37:02.810] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. So you would not have any personal knowledge on the listed assets in any of the SALNs of the Vice President?

**[02:37:10.810] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:37:11.690] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
You would not have any personal knowledge on the listed liabilities in any of the SALNs of the Vice President. Tama po? You would not have any personal knowledge on the listed net worth in any of the Vice President SALNs. Tama po?

**[02:37:25.990] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:37:26.550] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. You would also not have any personal knowledge on the financial and business interests listed in any of the Vice President SALNs.

**[02:37:34.350] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Of

**[02:37:34.870] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
course, yes po.

**[02:37:35.630] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay po.

**[02:37:36.150] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
You would not know if any of the Vice President SALNs Need any correction, ma'am?

**[02:37:42.570] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Of course, yes po.

**[02:37:44.460] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And

**[02:37:44.920] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
you cannot testify on the completeness or incompleteness of the disclosure in the SALN because you have no personal knowledge. Tama po?

**[02:37:52.240] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Tama po.

**[02:37:54.740] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yung title po na in-identify niyo kanina, ito po, issued noong July 26, 2024. Tama po?

**[02:38:03.870] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, base po sa aming record. July 26, 2024.

**[02:38:07.420] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Tapos yung parcel of land na naka-describe po dyan sa property is nakalagay located in Matina, Davao City. Tama po ma'am?

**[02:38:15.280] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Tama po.

**[02:38:16.240] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Gano'n na po kayo katagal na register of deeds sa Davao City?

**[02:38:20.760] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Mahigit isang taon na po.

**[02:38:22.160] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. So you would know ma'am na ang Matina Crossing is also known as Barangay 748. Alam niyo po yun?

**[02:38:33.510] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po.

**[02:38:35.950] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
In that light, Your Honor, may we just reiterate our earlier manifestation that this honorable court can take mandatory judicial notice of the geographical divisions in the Philippines, particularly that Matina Crossing is also known or officially known as Paranggay 748, Your Honor.

**[02:38:58.750] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, we'd like to make a counter-manifestation, Your Honor.

**[02:39:01.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm sorry, Attorney John?

**[02:39:03.390] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
We'd like to make a counter-manifestation also. Kindly

**[02:39:05.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
do so. Your

**[02:39:06.230] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Honor, Matina is a general area and it comprises of several barangays, Your Honor. So, we'd just like to put that

**[02:39:12.690] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
on record.

**[02:39:12.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court will look into it with the permission of Attorney Lindon.

**[02:39:16.550] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Understood, Your Honor.

**[02:39:19.400] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'm showing you tax declarations pertaining to the transfer certificate of title which you identified.

**[02:39:31.140] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Do you have two... Tax declarations, ma'am. Dalawa po yung hawak nyo.

**[02:39:38.700] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yung ibinigay po? Opo. Ito po?

**[02:39:42.760] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
You would confirm, ma'am, that the tax declarations na hawak mo pertain to the same TCT number.

**[02:39:50.620] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Pareho ba ito ng record namin, sir?

**[02:39:52.900] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Nakalagay po dyan yung TCT number. You may refer to it, ma'am.

**[02:39:56.280] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May we know, Your Honor, if this is a separate document from that which was produced by the witness?

**[02:40:01.500] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It is a separate document, Your Honor. It is the more recent tax declaration, Your Honor.

**[02:40:07.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So you're showing the witness a tax declaration?

**[02:40:12.020] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Then we will be

**[02:40:12.880] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
objecting, Your Honor, to any question related to this particular document. Because this is not one of the documents that was presented by... The witness in this fact a document that has not been identified nor authenticated by any witness whatsoever, Your Honor.

**[02:40:26.950] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, with due respect to the prosecution, the cross covers any relevant matter. And since the witness identified a particular TCT, then we can confront her with documents related to that particular title, Your Honor.

**[02:40:44.110] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, that tax declaration...

**[02:40:46.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, rebuttal from Attorney John.

**[02:40:49.580] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Sorry, Your Honor. That tax declaration did not come with the documents presented by the witness, Your Honor. Therefore, she could not be confronted with that document, Your Honor.

**[02:40:58.100] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
If

**[02:40:58.540] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
they want to present that tax declaration, Your Honor, they should present their own witness who will be able to identify and authenticate that tax declaration, Your Honor.

**[02:41:07.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, a short rejoinder, Your Honor.

**[02:41:09.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Final rejoinder, yes.

**[02:41:11.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Aside from covering relevant matters, Your Honor, cross-examination also covers all facts bearing an important, bearing significance in the case, Your Honor.

**[02:41:24.940] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So this is, we submit, this is an important fact which can be elicited.

**[02:41:29.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the indulgence of Attorney John, the court will allow it, proper subject matter for cross, to confront the witness with this document, if she knows, of course.

**[02:41:39.260] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
May we ask to inspect first the document, Your Honor?

**[02:41:42.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May you ask for a copy?

**[02:41:44.320] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:41:45.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You have assisting counsel there to look at the copy?

**[02:41:50.540] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[02:42:08.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Do you have an extra copy, Atty. Lindon?

**[02:42:11.460] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor, we do.

**[02:42:16.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can you confront the witness with that extra copy while the prosecution is perusing the document so that you may proceed with your cross-examination?

**[02:42:36.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can you proceed, Atty. Cathy? You were asked, yung tax declaration po ba na yan ay tumutugma o ang tinutukoy ay yung TCT na binanggit niyo kanina?

**[02:42:53.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Makikita niyo po sa tax declaration, typical na tax declaration sa registradong lupa, yung TCT number sa bandang kaliwang bahagi.

**[02:43:00.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
May we just request the tech, your honor, to flash the tax declaration?

**[02:43:05.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly flash it on the screen, please. The clerk of court and the tech is so directed.

**[02:43:21.520] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes, sir. Base po dito sa ibinigay niyong dokumento, ang nakalagay po na TCT. ay 146-2024010-775 na nagtutugma po sa titolong naka-certify po sa aming records.

**[02:43:39.010] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Just to clarify ma'am, yung hawak niyo pong tax declaration pertains to tax declaration over the land and tax declaration over the building, tama po?

**[02:43:54.740] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:43:55.520] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. Ma'am, do you confirm that the declared market value of the land is 1,864,680 pesos?

**[02:44:05.700] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
We object, Your Honor. Again, the witness is incompetent to testify on the matter, Your Honor. They should be presenting the city assessor, Your Honor, who will be testifying on that tax declaration.

**[02:44:17.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
She's being asked only as to the contents of the document, not as to the accuracy or truth of the same. Witness may answer.

**[02:44:25.930] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Tama ma'am. Ang nakalagay na declared market value ng land is 1,864,680 pesos.

**[02:44:36.760] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ipagpaumanin niyo po sir. Ang akin po is hindi po ito nagagaling sa aming record so hindi po ako maka... Kung ipapabasa niyo lang

**[02:44:47.640] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
po

**[02:44:47.660] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
sa

**[02:44:47.840] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
akin

**[02:44:48.160] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
kung ano yung nakikita ko.

**[02:44:49.340] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, as appearing in the document.

**[02:44:51.180] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, she already answered that she's incompetent to testify.

**[02:44:53.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What was her answer, Attorney Lindon?

**[02:44:56.620] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay.

**[02:44:57.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Based on the record, what you read in the document anyway?

**[02:45:00.540] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, the witness agreed to confirm the contents of the tax declaration. We confronted her by reading the same, Your Honor.

**[02:45:10.360] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
The witness likewise manifested, Your Honor, that she is incompetent to testify on this matter.

**[02:45:15.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But the witness may read what the document is stating in front of her. Just to get over this, Attorney,

**[02:45:26.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kathy, kindly read what is the market value contained in the tax declaration.

**[02:45:31.320] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang market value po na nakikita ko dito ay ang nakalagay 1,864,680 pesos po sa land.

**[02:45:42.900] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay, that's my next question. What's the declared market value? You confirmed that the declared market value of the building is 6,992,847 pesos and 80 centavos, ma'am. You confirm po?

**[02:45:57.570] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sa akin pong nababasa.

**[02:45:59.530] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Opo. You confirm po?

**[02:46:02.090] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sa

**[02:46:02.690] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
inyong nababasa?

**[02:46:04.230] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ang nakalagay po ay 6,992,847.80.

**[02:46:10.290] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. You also confirm ma'am that the assessed value of the land is 82,04... 82,046 pesos. Assessed value ng land.

**[02:46:26.160] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
As appearing in the document?

**[02:46:29.260] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, ito po ay 82,046.

**[02:46:33.240] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay.

**[02:46:34.500] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Well, in your experience, in every sale of real property, transfer taxes must be paid, tama po?

**[02:46:43.470] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:46:44.090] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay.

**[02:46:44.970] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Tapos may bayad din po yung pag-register ng instrument sa inyo?

**[02:46:49.210] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:46:49.630] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. May bayad din po yung proseso ng pag-transfer ng title sa inyo, tama po?

**[02:46:54.150] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:46:54.670] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. Tapos, only if you can answer, ma'am, every sale of property entails surveying the lot na bibilin. Tama po? In your experience lang, ma'am, kasi familiar kayo sa dealings with your property.

**[02:47:15.860] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'm now gonna show you the 2024 SALN of the Vice President.

**[02:47:33.350] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I direct your attention to page 3, line 6 of the 2024 SALN.

**[02:47:44.460] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Page 3, row 6 of the 2024 SALN.

**[02:47:53.370] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Nakikita niyo po ma'am?

**[02:47:55.110] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:47:55.870] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Do you confirm ma'am that there is a Barangay 7-4A Davao City property?

**[02:48:03.170] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:48:03.750] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And

**[02:48:04.330] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
do you also confirm na ang nakalagay na... Cost of acquisition is 10 million.

**[02:48:09.680] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:48:10.360] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Do you also confirm na ang nakalagay na assessed value is 82,046 pesos?

**[02:48:25.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:48:26.330] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. And kapareho po ito nung binanggit nyo kaninang assessed value na nakalagay sa tax declaration ng lupa. Tama po?

**[02:48:36.100] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi ko po. I cannot confirm.

**[02:48:38.540] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. Basahin nyo po ulit yung nakalagay na tax declaration sa land. Pareho po ng amount. Pareho po

**[02:48:45.660] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
ng amount.

**[02:48:48.740] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Pareho po ng amount. At you confirm din ma'am na nakalagay ito sa SALN ng VP sa portion under her spouse or kay Mr. Manassas R. Carpio.

**[02:49:07.900] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:49:08.520] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
At yung titulo po ulit, tatanungin ko lang po ulit, nakalapangalan po kay Manassas R. Carpio. Tama po?

**[02:49:16.890] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:49:17.530] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So nakalagay po sa SALN niya.

**[02:49:19.740] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
I

**[02:49:20.300] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
cannot confirm.

**[02:49:27.120] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
No further questions, Your Honor.

**[02:49:31.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Redirect, Atty. John.

**[02:49:33.010] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Just a few questions for redirect.

**[02:49:35.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed when you're ready, sir.

**[02:49:36.730] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Atty. Cathy, ang assessed value is given on a property based on the area it's situated, correct?

**[02:49:51.150] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Correct.

**[02:49:53.450] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Tama ko ba?

**[02:49:55.100] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ano po ibig sabihin niyo, sir?

**[02:49:56.420] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So yung magkalapit na properties, even if they're not the same property, would most likely have the same assessed value?

**[02:50:02.210] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Not within my...

**[02:50:02.870] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Speculative, Your Honor.

**[02:50:04.030] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Not within my...

**[02:50:05.200] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Okay.

**[02:50:05.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness already answered that she would not be in a position to answer.

**[02:50:10.070] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Now, you testified earlier na itong portion na pina-identify ni Atty. Lindon sa inyo ay hindi katugma doon sa deed of sale na dala ninyo. Tama po ba? Kasi ang amount of acquisition cost sa deed of sale na dala ninyo is only 6 million pesos.

**[02:50:35.070] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
At

**[02:50:35.850] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
ang kinuturo niyang property sa cross niya is ang acquisition cost is 10 million pesos.

**[02:50:46.600] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So

**[02:50:47.380] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
magkaiba yung acquisition cost.

**[02:50:50.040] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa Deed of sale at saka SALN na pinakita po.

**[02:50:54.540] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So sa experience niyo po as register of deeds, di ba usually nilalagay nila yung lower amount ang iba to avoid paying taxes, di ba?

**[02:51:05.410] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Speculative, Your Honor.

**[02:51:08.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sir, if she knows. Pakiulit po.

**[02:51:11.800] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yung ibang bumibili ng property, nilalagay nila ang lower amount para iwasan ang pagbayad ng tamang buwis. Tama po ba?

**[02:51:20.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Only if you know, Attorney Cathy.

**[02:51:22.240] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
I don't. I

**[02:51:23.280] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
don't know po, sir.

**[02:51:24.400] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
[unclear] for our redirect, Your Honor.

**[02:51:26.280] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Short recross, Your Honor.

**[02:51:27.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, you may proceed, Attorney Lindon. Thereafter, we shall proceed with the interjection of Senator-Judges.

**[02:51:32.400] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Earlier, ma'am, you confirmed that the declared market value of the land is 1,864,680 and that the declared market value of the building based on the instrument you were confronted with is 6,992,847 pesos and 80 pesos. Correct?

**[02:51:57.810] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Which one here?

**[02:51:59.250] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
No, I'm just as attorney. I'm just playing the predicate for my question.

**[02:52:06.760] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Itong pinakita niya po, sir.

**[02:52:08.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes. Do you confirm that those were the amounts? The amounts I read are correct?

**[02:52:17.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ito, 1,864,680 po.

**[02:52:21.170] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And the other one is 6,992,847.80 pesos.

**[02:52:26.010] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:52:26.590] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Correct. And you confirmed that the total declared market value of both the land and the building is around 8,800,000.

**[02:52:36.210] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Incompetent, Your Honor.

**[02:52:37.370] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, I'm just asking a simple

**[02:52:38.970] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
arithmetic, Your Honor.

**[02:52:40.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If she knows, based on the document.

**[02:52:42.030] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
I need a calculator, sir.

**[02:52:43.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[02:52:48.520] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can we ask the witness to...

**[02:52:52.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You can round it off, Attorney Cathy.

**[02:52:55.400] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Around 8.8 million, attorney.

**[02:52:59.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Roughly, yeah.

**[02:53:01.130] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And earlier, during my cross, you also testified that other fees must be paid for every sale or purchase of property, correct? You remember saying that?

**[02:53:14.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Yes.

**[02:53:14.830] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
No further questions, Your Honor.

**[02:53:18.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Interjections from Senator-Judges, if any.

**[02:53:24.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We won't let go of this witness if there are any interjections. If there are none, then that's

**[02:53:28.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the only time we will excuse the witness so that she doesn't have to come back to the witness stand.

**[02:53:33.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Senate President is recognized for his interjection.

**[02:53:36.500] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you.

**[02:53:37.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Interjection. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[02:53:39.400] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Madam Witness, itong tinitignan ko ngayon yung TCT.

**[02:53:48.270] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Itong pinakita nyo kanina, Ito ay nakapangalan na kay Atty. Manassas. Tama. Yung pinakita niyo po kanina sa amin.

**[02:54:01.620] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ang

**[02:54:02.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
clarificatory questions, Atty. Cathy.

**[02:54:08.540] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
0775. Ending 0775.

**[02:54:10.500] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, nakapangalan po ito sa isang Atty. Manassas R. Carpio. Married to Sara Z. Duterte-Carpio.

**[02:54:16.320] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
And then, na-transfer to sa kanya July of 2024. Tama po ba?

**[02:54:21.020] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:54:22.710] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Bilang RD, bilang Register of Deeds, ibig ba sabihin nito, nung July of 2024, siya na ang may-ari nitong lupang ito? Officially?

**[02:54:36.840] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
As between the parties po, sir. As between the parties, sila na po ang may-ari. But ang purpose po ng registration is to bind third persons. Itong titulo po.

**[02:54:49.180] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero base dito sa titulo, Si Atty. Manases na ang may-ari nitong lupang ito. Tama. By July 26, 2024.

**[02:54:59.870] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Tama.

**[02:55:01.630] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tinitignan ko ulit itong titulo. Ano ang exact address nito? Anong barangay? Anong street?

**[02:55:14.310] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Dahil nakasulat dito Barrio Matina, City of Davao, Island of Mindanao. Pero ano yung current exact address niya?

**[02:55:22.800] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po dito sa kanyang tax declaration at saka sa e-car, pati

**[02:55:40.320] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
din po sa kanyang tax clearance, ang particular po na address nito ay Huna Subdivision, Matina Crossing, Talomo.

**[02:55:49.970] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Matina Crossing, Talomo.

**[02:55:52.150] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Talomo, Davao City po.

**[02:56:02.760] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Barangay Matina Crossing.

**[02:56:04.680] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:56:05.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
At mayroong ganyan na barangay.

**[02:56:08.860] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ang sa iyong, kasi narinig ko kanina, one year ka na sa Davao. So, most likely, kabisado mo na yung mga barangays doon.

**[02:56:17.000] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po lahat, sir.

**[02:56:18.280] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero at least sa city. Kabisado nyo na sa city.

**[02:56:22.690] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Malaki po ang Davao city po.

**[02:56:24.310] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Alam ko malaki nga. But merong barangay Matina, Crossing, Tolomo?

**[02:56:29.010] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Meron po.

**[02:56:29.710] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Okay. And then,

**[02:56:36.070] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Yan bang address na yan ay hindi nakalagay yan sa TCT?

**[02:56:43.420] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po. Ang nakalagay po sa TCT ay Barrio of Matina, City of Davao.

**[02:56:49.580] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So saan nakalagay yung Matina Crossing, Barangay Matina Crossing para maging official siyang address?

**[02:56:59.230] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Dito po sa kanyang e-car. Gaya po nang sabi ko kanina sa kanyang e-card po, real property tax clearance at tax declaration po. Sa

**[02:57:14.130] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
tax declaration. Pag nakalagay doon, ibig sabihin, official address na ito. Yan yung kanyang official address na gagamitin. Dahil hindi ko siya makita sa tax declaration.

**[02:57:27.230] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Sila po kasi ang nagta-tax map po.

**[02:57:29.900] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sila na nagtataks ba? Pero kinoconsider na kayo bilang Register of Deeds yung Barangay Matina Crossing as the official address of this particular TCT.

**[02:57:41.740] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Tumatanggap lang naman po kami ng dokumento. Hindi po kami nag-nagdi-determine kung saan po talaga. Kasi ito pong...

**[02:57:51.850] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kasi ang punto ko is paano natin malaman kung yung TCT at yung Barangay Matina Crossing na binanggit nyo ay... One in the same property. Yun ang pinupuntokon. Dahil nasa ibang dokumento yung barangay Matina Crossing.

**[02:58:09.920] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ganito po kasi yan, sir. Itong barrio of Matina, City of Davao, mas broad po siya kasi ito po yung nakalagay sa kanyang original na pagpaparehistro and hindi po ito pwedeng i-alter without court order. So habang ano po... Kaya po yung particular po talaga na address is makikita mo na doon sa mga supporting documents which is ito pong e-car, tax declaration, at saka real property tax clearance po.

**[02:58:45.550] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
And lahat yun ang sinasabi, itong particular TCT, ang kanyang barangay is Barangay Matina Crossing, Tolomo.

**[02:58:53.610] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[02:58:54.790] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Pareho

**[02:58:55.490] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
po silang lahat.

**[02:58:56.390] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[02:58:57.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Mr. Senate President. Senator Judge Villanueva for his interjections. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. You

**[02:59:04.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
have two minutes.

**[02:59:05.620] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Senate President.

**[02:59:12.840] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Very quickly, Madam Witness, from a registry standpoint, does the phrase married to by itself establish that property is owned jointly by both parties?

**[02:59:27.910] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po kami nag-a-assume kung ano po ang kanilang property regime na ano po sir.

**[02:59:38.130] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So the answer,

**[02:59:39.330] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
ano po yung sagot? Sorry.

**[02:59:43.070] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po kami nag-a-assume kung ano po ang property regime ng parties po. Ang kinokopya po namin dito sa paglagay ng pangalan is kung ano po ang nakalagay sa deed of absolute sale. Kaya ang nakalagay po dito sa deed of absolute sale... Atty. Manassas R. Carpio of legal age, Filipino, married to Sara Z. Duterte-Carpio. So yun po ang inilagay dito. But ministerial po ang aming duty, i-re-register lang po namin kung ano po ang nakalagay sa dokumento.

**[03:00:14.360] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So nakarehistro ay ang may-ari si Atty. Manassas Carpio?

**[03:00:21.620] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Atty. Manassas Carpio po.

**[03:00:24.320] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Married to? VP Sara. Dun sa George versus Marcelo kasi ng Supreme Court explained the phrase married to appearing beside a registered owner's name may simply describe civil status and does not by itself prove co-ownership or the property's conjugal community property. Gusto nating malaman dito sa pagdinig na ito kasi relevant ba under Article 2 because the court is examining the respondent's own assets and financial conduct. While yung title na na-identify natin ngayon by the subpoena is registered to her spouse. So ang tanong ko po, Madam Witness, mayroon bang document personally signed by VP Sara dito sa dokumento na hiniharap niyo ngayon?

**[03:01:14.990] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po dito sa dokumentong ibinigay po sir, ang deed of sale po ay pinirmahan ng vendor na si Cynthia Basilio Madelo at attorney Manassas R. Carpio bilang vendee po. Hindi po pumirma ang kanyang asawa po.

**[03:01:32.610] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So wala po?

**[03:01:34.030] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Wala po.

**[03:01:35.090] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Itong instrument itself, does...

**[03:01:42.310] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Meron po bang nakalagay dito that the respondent, si VP Sara, pay any portion of the purchase price or does it merely reflect consent or acknowledgement as a spouse? Meron po ba?

**[03:01:55.850] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Base po sa dokumento, wala po.

**[03:01:58.770] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Tinatanong ko po yan kasi importante na ma-distinguish being named as buyer or grantee from merely signing as a consenting spouse because those acts do not...

**[03:02:14.300] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Last question. Do the documents retained by the Registry of Deeds identify who actually paid the purchase price for this property and where the funds came from?

**[03:02:31.980] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po.

**[03:02:33.260] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Ang in-identify lang yung nagbayad? Ano po?

**[03:02:38.420] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Papakiulit po yan? Ano pong ibig na sabihin?

**[03:02:40.220] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Ulitin ko po yung tanong. Dito po sa mga dokumento na ito na nasa registry of deeds, ina-identify po ba sino yung nagbayad o bumili, yung purchase price for this property, at kung saan po nang galing yung salapi na pambili dito.

**[03:03:01.300] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po, nakabase lang po kami sa deed of conveyance which is yung deed of absolute sale po.

**[03:03:07.660] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
At kung meron pong mortgage deed or other registered instrument, does that document establish the actual source and the movement of the purchase funds?

**[03:03:22.650] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Ministerial na naman kami sir, so kung, your honor, kaya kung...

**[03:03:26.270] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So ibig sabihin hindi po?

**[03:03:27.570] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi po.

**[03:03:28.150] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
And the court still need, ito yung gusto kong puntuhin, does the court still need... Bank records, probably seller records, loan disbursement records. Kaya po, sa tingin ko po, mas magandang makita talaga yung bank records, company bank records, at doon makikita po natin kung talagang ito ay nagpo-fall doon sa Article 2 na ating pinag-uusapan ngayon. Maraming salamat po, Madam Witness. Thank you.

**[03:04:02.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If there are no other senator or judges who wishes to make interjections, briefly on the part of the presiding officer, Atty. Cathy, assessor's office po ang may hawak ng tax map ng buong siyudad, hindi po ba? Would you know?

**[03:04:22.180] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
I cannot confirm, pero...

**[03:04:23.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi ba magkatabi lang halos yung opisina niyo? Madalas magkatabi yan, di ba?

**[03:04:28.370] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, nasa likod lang po kami, I believe.

**[03:04:32.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Usually kasi, hindi ba, may mapa? Ang assessor's office, nakalagay doon yung mga tax deck number o TCT number ng kada parsela ng lupa para malaman nila kung sino yung sisingilin, di ba, ng real property tax, hindi po ba?

**[03:04:50.750] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, within their jurisdiction po.

**[03:04:52.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sila

**[03:04:53.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
po yung makakaalam kung sakasakali ng alin-alin ba talaga to.

**[03:04:57.850] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[03:04:58.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama po?

**[03:04:59.330] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[03:04:59.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So yung tax deck na pinakita sa inyo kanina, na nakalagay doon yung TCT number na binanggit po ninyo, galing po yun sa Assessor's Office at hindi po galing sa Register of Deeds.

**[03:05:11.540] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo, hindi po galing sa amin.

**[03:05:32.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ascertain those maps as we speak from sources we can obtain. Perhaps if you can lend assistance to the court by giving us the tax map from the city assessor's office so that we can so determine it more conclusively. Attorney Lindon?

**[03:05:58.540] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor. We will provide the tax map as soon as possible. We're trying to get

**[03:06:04.220] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
it too.

**[03:06:04.730] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor. But in order to guide this honorable court and the senator-judges, Your Honor, we actually looked further into it and there's actually a official Facebook account of Barangay Matina crossing 74A, Davao City, Your Honor.

**[03:06:21.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly check. Candy, look into it. The clerk of court is directed to

**[03:06:24.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
look

**[03:06:24.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
into it.

**[03:06:25.120] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can flash it on the screen, Your Honor, if this honorable court would allow.

**[03:06:28.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Just furnish the court so that we can take judicial notice of it as you requested earlier so that we can decide with respect to your request for judicial notice.

**[03:06:35.900] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Will do, Your Honor.

**[03:06:36.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. If there are no other senators, Senator Erwin Tulfo is recognized for his interjection.

**[03:06:50.120] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Maraming salamat po, Ginoong presiding officer. Magandang hapon po.

**[03:06:56.140] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
[unclear] Testigo. Ma'am, ang sabi niyo po kayo ay nagtatala ng mga instrumento sa real properties. Tama po ba ito?

**[03:07:06.920] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[03:07:07.720] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Posible ba na magbenta ng properties at hindi pa registered ng new buyer sa LRA ang isang property?

**[03:07:19.280] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Posible po. Posible po.

**[03:07:21.280] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay. Kailangan ba ilagay sa SALN kahit na ibenta na ang property? For example, binili ko po ngayon tapos after one month may bumili, may patong na bilhin ko sa'yo. Hindi ko na kailangan ilagay sa SALN o kailangan ko pa rin ilagay yun yung pagbebenta ng SALN?

**[03:07:38.860] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Not within my competence po.

**[03:07:40.500] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Not within your competence. Okay. Pangalawang tanong po ay sana nasa competence nyo

**[03:07:46.240] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
na po itong tanong ko. Um, gaano karami po ang property na pinag-uusapan natin dito, ma'am, ng mag-asawa? Gaano karami ito?

**[03:07:56.230] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Hindi ko po alam.

**[03:07:57.450] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Hindi mo rin alam?

**[03:07:58.650] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[03:07:59.550] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Eh ano yung pinag-uusapan natin dito? Anong property po? Isa lang?

**[03:08:03.570] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Um, base po sa sabina po, ito lang po ang pina-identify po sa akin.

**[03:08:07.750] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Gaano kalaki po ito, ma'am?

**[03:08:10.510] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Um... 379 square meters.

**[03:08:15.030] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
379 square meters. Hindi naman po ito etarya. Sa loob po ba na city ito? Pasensya na ma'am, di ako nakikinig kanina. Nasa lounge po ako naglalunch kanina. I went to early lunch.

**[03:08:29.090] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
300 square meters. Tama po.

**[03:08:31.530] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Opo.

**[03:08:32.470] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Nasa exclusive subdivision po ba ito ng Davao?

**[03:08:36.950] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Nasa base po sa kanyang tax deck, nasa HUNA subdivision po siya.

**[03:08:42.510] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ano po yun? [unclear] taga-Davao po ako pero parang HUNA.

**[03:08:46.010] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
HUNA subdivision

**[03:08:47.250] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
po. Parang hindi naman po yan talaga na big time subdivision. Magkano ro po ito sa inyong dokumento, sa records nyo? Kung nalalaman lang ninyo.

**[03:08:58.510] Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado**  
Six million po ang nakalagay dito.

**[03:09:00.830] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Six million. Pero hindi nyo makikita dyan kung magkano ilang.

**[03:09:26.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Tulfo. There being no other Senator Judge who wishes to... Make an interjection to the witness.

**[03:09:36.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The chair will now excuse Atty. Kathy Baldonado. Ma'am, maraming salamat po sa inyong oras, panahon, pasensya at pagsagot at pagtugon sa mga katanungan ng magkabilang abogado ng magkabilang partido, gayon din po ng ilang senator-judge kabilang na po ang presiding officer. Magandang hapon po at maraming salamat. Your excuse, ma'am.

**[03:10:02.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The clerk of court is directed to now call back to the witness stand, Atty. Marco Pineda, the Register of Deeds of the City of Samal.

**[03:10:14.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly situate Mr. Marco, Atty. Marco rather, to the witness stand.

**[03:10:53.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Magandang hapon pong muli, Atty. Marco.

**[03:10:56.690] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Magandang hapon po, Your Honor.

**[03:10:58.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Naunawaan niyo po na kayo ipatuloy na magbibigyan ng inyong testimonya base at sa ayon sa nauna na po niyong pinanumpaan kanina umaga.

**[03:11:07.700] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:11:09.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Salamat po. Attorney Lindon, you may proceed with your cross-examination when you're ready.

**[03:11:14.480] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, sir.

**[03:11:17.560] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Good afternoon, sir.

**[03:11:18.880] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Sir, abogado po kayo, no?

**[03:11:21.480] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:11:22.500] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And you are the Deputy Register of Deeds for Island Garden City of Samal?

**[03:11:27.840] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Deputy Register of Deeds 3 po. Acting RD lang po.

**[03:11:30.800] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Acting RD. Okay. Sir, the registry of deeds is the repository of records or instruments affecting registered lands. Tama po?

**[03:11:42.200] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:11:43.180] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
May duty rin po kayo to register instruments presented for registration na may kinalaman sa real property?

**[03:11:50.840] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo.

**[03:11:53.000] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Public repository of registry of deeds. Public record.

**[03:12:04.840] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
In accordance with section 56 of presidential decree 1529, all documents registered before our registry are considered public documents.

**[03:12:14.320] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, sir. Being public, kahit po sino pwedeng humingi ng kopya ng

**[03:12:36.040] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sir,

**[03:12:36.760] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
you are aware that before a title may be issued or transferred to the name of another person, he or she must submit a certificate authorizing registration from the BIR Real property tax clearance from the LGU and proof of payment of transfer taxes. Correct sir?

**[03:12:55.540] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Correct sir.

**[03:12:56.380] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And this is to ensure po that your office knows that proper taxes have been paid.

**[03:13:03.840] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sir, I cannot make a definite statement considering that we are simply ministerial officers. We accept documents at face value. If the documents are present and complied, we immediately register as ministerial officers.

**[03:13:18.460] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It's okay sir. It's okay, sir. But you would agree, sir, that your office, the Registry of Deeds, would not issue any title or would not cause the transfer of title to another person without complying with the requirements submitted to you?

**[03:13:32.910] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The e-card or the electronic certificate authorizing registration of the Bureau of Internal Revenue is a mandatory requirement, sir.

**[03:13:38.490] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And the title you identified is issued in the name of Manassas R. Carpio, correct, sir?

**[03:13:43.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As it appears on the face of the document, yes, sir.

**[03:13:48.250] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
The Registry of Deeds po is not the repository of SAL-Ns of any public official or employee, tama po?

**[03:13:55.250] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:13:56.090] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So you would not have personal knowledge on the listed assets sa mga SAL-N ng ating VC Presidente?

**[03:14:02.350] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:14:03.250] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Wala rin po kayong personal knowledge sa listed liabilities sa mga SAL-N?

**[03:14:09.470] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir. That's correct.

**[03:14:10.650] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Wala rin kayong personal knowledge sa listed net worth sa kanyang mga SAL-N, tama po?

**[03:14:16.110] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir. That's correct.

**[03:14:17.330] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. And wala rin po kayong personal knowledge, any listed financial and business interests sa kanyang mga SALN. Tama po?

**[03:14:25.970] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tama po.

**[03:14:26.890] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. Hindi rin po kayo makakapag-testigo kung kumpleto o hindi ang mga nakalagay sa kanyang SALN. Tama po?

**[03:14:34.970] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tama po.

**[03:14:35.670] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. Sir, you testified that a deed of absolute sale was annotated to the title. Correct, sir?

**[03:14:43.950] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
It is part of the supporting document, sir, and annotated as well on the Facebook title as part of the incumbrances.

**[03:14:49.550] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. The deed of absolute sale is dated March 15, 2018. Correct, sir?

**[03:14:54.790] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be allowed to peruse the document again, sir?

**[03:14:56.770] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Of course, sir.

**[03:14:57.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so.

**[03:14:58.850] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:15:05.730] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I will confirm, sir, as it appears on the Facebook document, March 15, 2018.

**[03:15:11.030] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, sir. In the same deed of absolute sale, sir, the property was described... As being located in Barangay San Isidro, Kaputian District, Island Garden, City of Samal. Correct, sir?

**[03:15:25.690] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be clarified, sir? You are referring to the deed of absolute sale?

**[03:15:28.810] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Correct, sir. Yung nakalagay na property description sa deed of absolute sale.

**[03:15:34.770] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As it appears in the document, sir, in a quote, property description, Lot L11, Block Number B1, Phase 1, Project Kembali Coast, Subdivision Village, located at Barangay San Isidro, Kaputian District. Island Garden City of Samal, Davao City, Philippines, uncovered by transfer certificate of Title No. T-44681 of the Register of Deeds of Davao del Norte. End of quote.

**[03:16:02.250] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Sir. So yung TCT po na sinabi niyo, tama po na in-issue ito ng inyong ipusina noong March 28, 2019?

**[03:16:10.210] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As it appears in the records, yes, Sir.

**[03:16:12.810] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
At ang description ng property dito ay The property is located in Matanos, Island Garden, City of Samal. Tama po ba? Sa T-City po mismo.

**[03:16:32.650] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be allowed to go over the title, Your Honor?

**[03:16:36.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so, Attorney.

**[03:16:45.120] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sir, the transfer certificate of title which is in my hand, number 142-2019-013134 states that the land, and I read... It is certified that certain land situated in Matanos Island Garden City of Samal, province of the Baudel, North Philippines, as it appears on the face of the title, sir.

**[03:17:08.730] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. So, thank you, sir. I will be showing you the 2018 Sal-N of the Vice President, sir.

**[03:17:23.590] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I direct your attention to the portion of listed real properties under Manassas R. Carpio.

**[03:17:33.310] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Do you confirm, sir, that that is the 2018 SALN?

**[03:17:41.100] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Do you confirm, sir, that that is the 2018 SALN?

**[03:17:43.620] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo, sir.

**[03:17:44.480] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay. And do you confirm also that there is a property declared located in San Isidro, Igakos? Correct, sir?

**[03:17:59.600] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can we ask the tech to show the 2018 SALN?

**[03:18:05.270] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Tama po?

**[03:18:06.350] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, can the counsel be more specific? There are several properties from Samal Island indicated in the SALN.

**[03:18:13.730] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It's

**[03:18:14.210] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
San Isidro, Iga Coast.

**[03:18:16.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, he's referring to the one, the earlier ones are under the name of the Vice President. This one is under the name of Attorney Carpio.

**[03:18:26.270] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I will read before this Honorable Court. As it appears in this document, Your Honor, sir, there is one lot.

**[03:18:35.960] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Residential, Barangay, San Isidro, Capotean, Igakos, 52,500, Date of Acquisition, 2013, Mode of Acquisition, Sale, amounting to 4,041,000 pesos.

**[03:18:51.600] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. You confirm, sir, that San Isidro, Capotean District, Igakos also appears in the deed of absolute sale, correct, sir?

**[03:19:04.970] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:19:06.710] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'm going to be showing you, sir, the...

**[03:19:08.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the indulgence of Attorney Lindon, can you... IGACOS is Island, Garden, City of Samal. Is that the abbreviation?

**[03:19:18.380] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor. IGACOS means to embrace, but its literal meaning is Island, Garden, City of Samal.

**[03:19:29.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Exactly. It's an acronym.

**[03:19:30.340] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:19:31.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
May I proceed, Your Honor?

**[03:19:33.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon?

**[03:19:34.860] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor. I'm going to be showing you the 2019 SALN of the Vice President, Sir. And I'm going to be directing your attention to the list of real properties under Manassas R. Carpio.

**[03:20:01.390] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
My question, Sir, is do you confirm that there is a declared Matanos-Igacos property? In the 2019 SALN of the Vice President.

**[03:20:19.780] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
I will read before this for the full appreciation of this honorable court, sir.

**[03:20:23.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please do so, attorney.

**[03:20:25.300] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Thank you, your honor. Lot, residential, Barangay Matanos, Kaputian District, Igakos, 270,360, 2,700,000, 3,600. Date of acquisition, 2013.

**[03:20:41.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Marco, that's 2 million.

**[03:20:44.090] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
2,730,600 pesos, 2013 mode of acquisition, sale, and valued at 4,041,000 pesos, Your Honor, sirs.

**[03:21:00.630] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Is it a fair statement, sir, that this reflects the description of the location of the property in the transfer of certificate of title which you identified?

**[03:21:12.340] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Objection, Your Honor. The best evidence is the title itself, Your Honor.

**[03:21:16.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Well, if the witness knows, he may answer. If you know, Attorney Marco.

**[03:21:21.970] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Your Honor, based on my legal expertise and knowledge, Your Honor, I cannot draw conclusions because I am a mere ministerial officer. It cannot be done with pure quick visual check of the SALN, Your Honor. We are simply repositories or custodians of titles. I am confronted with documents for the first time. In this honorable court, sir. Ngayon ko pala nakita. Mahirap po magbigay ng conclusion, sir.

**[03:21:48.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. That's your answer. Attorney Lindon, that's his answer.

**[03:21:51.620] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
But you agree that the property is described in the transfer certificate of title as one being located in Barangay Matanos, Island Garden, City of Samal. Correct, sir? Based on the TCT?

**[03:22:08.190] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The title does not...

**[03:22:26.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So it's in the same barangay but you're not sure if it's the same property?

**[03:22:41.670] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
At the same time, the year, because it was acquired as per perusal of the absolute sale in 2018, but this one is...

**[03:22:50.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
[unclear] It says 2013.

**[03:22:57.090] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
2013, yes, Your Honor.

**[03:22:58.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the sale, and what year is the deed of sale?

**[03:23:02.190] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
2018, Your Honor.

**[03:23:06.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2018?

**[03:23:07.620] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, or March 15, 2018 po.

**[03:23:14.860] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Page 2 of the deed, Your Honor.

**[03:23:18.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please proceed, Attorney Linden.

**[03:23:21.390] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:23:27.640] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'm going to be showing you a tax declaration regarding the TCT of said property, Your Honor. Again,

**[03:23:36.600] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, we'll be raising the same objections, Your Honor.

**[03:23:38.800] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
We would ask for the same ruling, Your Honor.

**[03:23:41.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Previously ruled by the Court, Attorney John, you may note your continuing objection to this line of questioning, which the Court shall note.

**[03:23:48.820] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:23:51.300] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Sir, do you confirm that the tax declaration you are holding as indicated in the document pertains to the same TCT number?

**[03:24:01.490] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir, as appearing on the records.

**[03:24:04.620] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And would you confirm, sir, that the assessed value is P346,960 as indicated in the tax declaration?

**[03:24:14.180] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As appearing in the document itself, sir, it reads in a quote, P346,960, end of quote.

**[03:24:22.800] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'm gonna be showing you sir the 2024 SAL-N of the Vice President.

**[03:24:32.100] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I direct your attention to the portion under Manassas R. Carpio sir,

**[03:24:40.210] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
where the property is declared in Matanos, Igakos.

**[03:24:50.700] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Would you kindly read the assessed value in that portion sir?

**[03:25:02.000] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The assessed value based on this document, sir, is P346,960.

**[03:25:07.480] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And it's the same value as the tax declaration you earlier testified on. Correct, sir?

**[03:25:20.840] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The assessed value as appearing in the tax declaration states

**[03:25:27.860] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
P346,960, sir.

**[03:25:30.700] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So they match, sir?

**[03:25:32.120] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:25:32.720] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So the property was declared in the SALN?

**[03:25:35.540] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
It's objection, Your Honor.

**[03:25:37.780] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
As appearing in the Sal-N.

**[03:25:39.100] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Well, it may match with the figure of the tax declaration but doesn't mean that it was declared, Your Honor.

**[03:25:43.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As appearing in the document, not necessarily as of yet that it is the same property.

**[03:25:49.560] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Nothing further, Your Honor.

**[03:25:51.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Redirect, Attorney John.

**[03:25:53.270] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Just a few questions will redirect, Your Honor. The property being referred to by the Defense Counsel and as shown by the Sal-N. The acquisition date. Ano po yung acquisition date as shown in the SALN na pinapakita sa'yo kanina?

**[03:26:08.770] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
May I be allowed to peruse the document, sir? [unclear], please.

**[03:26:11.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so, Atty. Marco.

**[03:26:13.770] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:26:31.340] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Under the heading or caption, acquisition year, as reflected in this document under the heading Manasis Carpio, it reads 2013, Your Honor.

**[03:26:43.050] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
2013. At ikumpara niyo po dun sa deed of sale na dala ninyo. Anong year po yung deed of sale?

**[03:26:53.980] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
It's March 15, 2018, sir.

**[03:26:56.300] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Ayan, tinan natin yung amount, ang acquisition cost sa deed of sale.

**[03:27:03.220] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
On page 2 of this document, sir, and I read the purchase price. The purchase price for the property is Philippine pesos 3,453,849 pesos. End of quote.

**[03:27:20.560] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
And can you please compare it with the acquisition cost on the SALN as declared?

**[03:27:45.630] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The acquisition cost as appearing in this document sir reads 4,041,000 pesos.

**[03:27:57.200] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So magkaiba yung year of acquisition at magkaiba din yung acquisition cost based on what you read?

**[03:28:03.330] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes sir as it appears in the records.

**[03:28:05.370] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
So they declared na nabili na nila ang property in 2013 yet

**[03:28:10.730] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
ang actual deed of sale Ay ginawa noong 2018, 5 years after. Ano ba ang penalty for perjury or for making a...

**[03:28:19.440] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Relevance

**[03:28:19.860] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
and competence, Your Honor.

**[03:28:21.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Unless you have any other questions, Atty. John?

**[03:28:25.200] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Last question, Your Honor.

**[03:28:27.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, no, no more questions, Sir.

**[03:28:30.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any recourse, Atty. Lindon?

**[03:28:32.320] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
A few questions, Your Honor.

**[03:28:33.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, Sir.

**[03:28:34.800] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Sir, as Register of Deeds, malamang familiar po kayo sa dealings with real property, tama po? Yung mga kontrata involving real property, familiar po kayo?

**[03:29:09.480] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
So, time and again, we encountered the documents required pertinent to a specific transaction.

**[03:29:16.300] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And nabanggit nyo rin po kanina na na-abogado kayo. So, familiar po kayo kung papaano binibenta ang isang lupa, diba?

**[03:29:23.800] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:29:24.760] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
So,

**[03:29:25.780] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
it is usual po na bago mabayaran ng...

**[03:29:34.830] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Bago mabayaran ng kabuoan ng hinihingi ng purchase price sa lupa, nag-execute po na ng contract to sell ang mga partido. Tama po? In your experience?

**[03:29:45.350] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If the

**[03:29:47.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness knows, kung alam nyo po, Atty. Margo, kung hindi po, sabihin nyo rin po kung hindi nyo po alam.

**[03:29:54.890] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can I repeat my question, Your Honor?

**[03:29:56.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, you may, Atty.

**[03:29:57.690] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Are

**[03:29:58.030] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
you aware po na it is usually...

**[03:30:02.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It is usual that before the entire purchase price is paid, a contract to sell is executed between the parties.

**[03:30:10.320] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
In

**[03:30:10.660] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
a purely academic fashion, sir, with all due respect to this honorable court, a contract begins with a consent, object and consideration. If the parties have a meeting of minds, They can sell lands orally but that would not bind the world. It is the registration of the land that binds the whole world as a constructive notice.

**[03:30:26.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But it is binding us within the parties, attorney.

**[03:30:28.690] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, your honor.

**[03:30:29.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[03:30:32.200] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
And sa pagbebenta po ng lupa, kapag nakabayad na yung buyer ng buong purchase price, doon pa lang itatransfer yung pangalan sa titulo. Tama po ba?

**[03:30:48.380] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As I've said sir, with all your respect to the Honorable Court, we have a system that pops out the documentary requirements. So it requires more than just the deed of sale or the deed of conveyance. It requires the payment of the tax, the ECAR, the capital gains tax.

**[03:31:03.220] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Okay, sige sir. Nabanggit nyo rin po yan. So yun pong nakalagay na purchase price. Aside from the purchase price, every sale of property nagbabayad din ng transfer tax. Tama po sir?

**[03:31:15.740] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
It's already been

**[03:31:16.120] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
asked and answered, Your Honor.

**[03:31:17.710] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
It's for the earlier witness.

**[03:31:20.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That was

**[03:31:21.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
an earlier witness. He was merely mentioning the documentary requirements that the Register of Deeds require to be submitted before they issue a new title in favor of the buyer. Witness may answer?

**[03:31:34.740] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
I'll repeat my question, sir. So aside from the purchase price, nagbabayad rin yung mga parties ng transfer tax, tama po?

**[03:31:43.940] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:32:09.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For the Senator's interjections, we have Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[03:32:24.270] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Just a point of clarification lamang po to the defense. Are you saying that the subject properties are all stated in the SALN of the Vice President? Kasi it seems to me that the prosecution is saying that the subject properties were not declared. Pakiclarify lang.

**[03:32:43.670] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
That is the position of... Our position, Your Honor, that the properties that the two witnesses testified to today are in fact declared in the SALN of the Vice President, Your Honor.

**[03:32:54.620] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright, thank you, Mr. Defense Attorney.

**[03:32:59.560] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Dito po tayo sa ati pong witness. Mr. Witness, does the registry of these possess any corporate records, bank trails, or financial documents indicating? Public funds or personal funds belonging strictly to Vice President Sara were utilized to purchase these properties. Sir, do you have those?

**[03:33:26.790] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No, sir, because as I said, sir, with all due respect, we have a set of requirements, documentary requirements. So, we just adhere to what is required of us as ministerial officers. We don't have any paper trail on the source of the funds.

**[03:33:40.170] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay. May susunod ko po ng question. As an official of the LRA, sir, meron ba kayong personal knowledge regarding sa marital property regime? Example, sir, mga absolute community or complete separation of property, yung establishment between the spouses bago po sila nag-asawa, baka meron ng lupa si Atty. Man Scarpio, magkahiwalay sila ng property?

**[03:34:08.850] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No, sir.

**[03:34:10.730] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
So, wala ho kayong ganon?

**[03:34:12.690] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No, sir.

**[03:34:13.490] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright. Then, let me move to my next question, sir. Sir,

**[03:34:22.540] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
if a public official declares a real estate in their SAL-N, tapos using a broad geographical classification, alright, a developer's project name or an aggregate real property without explicitly writing the words Barangay Matano-Samal, for example,

**[03:34:44.010] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Your automated title lookup would register that as a no matching record? Correct? Tama po ba?

**[03:34:50.390] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
If

**[03:34:50.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
my recollection serves me right, Your Honor, that would be the output or the outcome.

**[03:34:55.710] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay. So, the standard SALN format provided by the Civil Service Commission does not strictly require public official to itemize the exact lot. and block number of the micro barangay address of every single parcel. That's it.

**[03:35:16.120] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir, but I have some reservations, Your Honor, considering that under the law, Republic Act 6713, the official custodian of the SALN is the office of the Ombudsman. So I have some reservations, Your Honor, because I might be saying something that... and I will be violating the law as a lawyer.

**[03:35:36.600] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
So you're saying na parang hindi kayo sigurado?

**[03:35:39.520] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, sir, as a matter of mandate, the mandate for office, Your Honor.

**[03:35:43.200] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
No further questions, Presiding Officer.

**[03:35:45.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator Judge Erwin. The Senate President is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready.

**[03:35:52.200] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon sa ating witness.

**[03:36:00.480] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Itong, again, tinitignan ko itong TCT. Anong exact barangay itong property na ito? According to the TCT. Mr. Pineda.

**[03:36:15.020] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Kagalanggalang na Pangulo. Hingi pa ako ng kuting oras, tinitignan ko po muna.

**[03:36:19.300] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ano yung exact barangay niya?

**[03:36:33.730] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Ang nakasulat po rito sa mukha ng mismong titulo ay, and I read, Kagalanggalang na Pangulo. It is hereby certified. that certain land situated in Matanos Island Garden City of Samal, province of the Baldo-Norte Philippines. Yan po ang nakasulat, end of quote, Your Honor.

**[03:36:51.550] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So ang barangay nito ay Matanos?

**[03:36:56.530] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:37:01.160] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Yan ang official barangay nitong property, itong TCT ending 3134?

**[03:37:08.220] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
As appearing in the document, yes, kagalang-galang na Pangulo.

**[03:37:13.120] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Tingin-tingin ko rin yung kanina na point out ng defense lawyers. Meron ding barangay San Isidro? Merong barangay San Isidro?

**[03:37:30.210] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Meron po, kagalang-galang na Pangulo.

**[03:37:34.050] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Nagpareho ba yun yung San Isidro at barangay Matanos?

**[03:37:40.190] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Hindi po.

**[03:37:41.170] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Magkaiba siya?

**[03:37:42.350] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo.

**[03:37:43.350] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kasi dito sa tinitignan ko yung SAL-N, merong ring barangay San Isidro particularly. So magkaibang barangay ito. Hindi siya nag-rename o hindi naging isang barangay. Magkaiba siya.

**[03:37:57.890] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Kakalanggalang at mahal na Pangulo, kung hayaan niyo po akong ihayag kung paano po nangyayari ito.

**[03:38:02.550] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sige po.

**[03:38:03.650] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Salamat po. Ganito po kasi yan.

**[03:38:05.170] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kasi

**[03:38:06.990] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
tinitignan ko itong SAL-N dated...

**[03:38:11.150] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
2018 may Barangay San Isidro pero doon sa titulo Barangay Matanos. So magkaiba siya. Magkaiba.

**[03:38:19.500] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo, mahal na Pangulo.

**[03:38:20.800] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Very clear yan.

**[03:38:22.040] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Ganito po kasi yan. Kung mayroong malaking lupa na gusto pong bilhin ng isang malaking developer, bibilhin po niya. At saka ito po ay sumasaklaw ng maraming barangay. At kung ito pong barangay ay nakaugat sa dating kadastri po, Ang trabaho po ng isang Register of Deeds ay purely ministerial. Isa'y automaticong pagganap ng tungkulin na walang pagpapasya. Kinukopya po namin yan. Kine-carry over namin yung dating titulo, yung tinatawag na mother title, yung ina. At ipapasok po namin yan sa derivative title, yung anak na titulo. Kaya kung ang dati pong pinagugatan ng titulo ay nakasulat po sa buka nito ay matanos, carried over po yan. Dadalin po yan ng anak yung derivative title. Ito po ang nangyari kadalasan po.

**[03:39:07.260] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Okay, pero for this purpose, itong lupang ito, nasa barangay Matano siya, hindi sa barangay San Isidro. Yun ang gusto natin malaman.

**[03:39:17.580] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Napakaganda po ng tanong po ninyo, mahal na Pangulo. Kasi po ganito yan, kung gusto nyo talagang matiyak kung saan ang lupa na binili at nakalagay sa titulo, kailangan po natin yung recent tax mapping. At ang recent tax mapping po ay matatagpuan sa tax declaration.

**[03:39:36.560] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So ano po yung nakalagay sa tax declaration?

**[03:39:39.180] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Hayaan niyo po akong basahin po, mahal na Pangulo.

**[03:39:41.020] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Go ahead po, go ahead.

**[03:39:57.460] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Batay po, mahal na Pangulo, sa tax declaration of real property na hinawakan ko po.

**[03:40:04.640] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Ang nakasulat po rito ay, location of property, and I quote, San Isidro, Kaputian, District Igakos, end of quote. Yun po ang recent latest tax mapping ng City Assessor ng Samal po.

**[03:40:19.140] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
So hindi po sa Matanos?

**[03:40:21.160] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Kaya po. Kasi po yung po ang dati pong kadastre. Ayon po sa Section 108 ng Presidential Decree 1529 or the Property Registration Decree, we are not authorized to change or alter any entries in the title unless there is a court order po or order from the Registration Authority.

**[03:40:40.460] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
So kung wala po, we will just carry that over to the succeeding titles or the derivative titles po. If you want to know the exact place po ng property, we have to go to the recent tax mapping based on the tax declaration po. Mahal na Pangulo.

**[03:40:53.540] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Okay. And then, base po sa inyong karanasan, kasi nakikinig ako kanina sa inyong mga sagot, dito ba sa Samal ay, base sa inyong karanasan, dahil five years na kayo doon, ang presyo ba ng lupa, tumataas o bumaba ba?

**[03:41:10.290] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Hindi ko po saklaw na aking mandato po, yun po rin sa assessor po. Pero tumataas po based on public knowledge.

**[03:41:17.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kasi nung tinitignan ko yung acquisition cost, 4 million, pero doon sa deed of sale, kanina pinapoint out ang defense, 4 million yung acquisition cost, pero ang deed of sale is 3.4 million in 2018, so bumaba siya.

**[03:41:37.360] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Posible ba yun kung talagang one and the same property yan?

**[03:41:41.470] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Mahal na pagulo, as it appears in the records po, opo.

**[03:41:44.250] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kung one and the same property yan?

**[03:41:46.210] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo.

**[03:41:46.860] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero may ganyan bang pangyayari dyan sa area? I think Kimbali ang tawag dyan sa area na yan. Bumaba ba ang presyo ng lupa?

**[03:41:57.020] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tatapatin ko po kayo mahal na Pangulo. Hindi pa po ako nakapunta sa Kimbali coast po. Pero sa pagkakaalam ko po, tumataas po.

**[03:42:05.060] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ang presyo dyan?

**[03:42:06.080] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
That's my personal opinion lang po. Hindi po yung legal na opinion.

**[03:42:08.940] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Dahil matagal na kayo dyan eh. So nakikita niyo yung transactions dahil kayo ang register of deeds, nakikita niyo yung transfer ng... At least meron kayong gut feel ang takbuhan ng presyo dyan sa area.

**[03:42:25.730] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes po mahal na Pangulo.

**[03:42:26.990] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you, thank you Mr. President.

**[03:42:28.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you Mr. Senate President. Senator Judge Villanueva is recognized for his interjections. You have two minutes sir.

**[03:42:36.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm sorry.

**[03:42:40.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ah yes, Attorney Lindon.

**[03:42:44.340] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Would you respect your honor, we would just like to, in light of the interjection of... The Senate President, we would just like to clarify that while the acquisition cost is constant, the declared property from 2013 to until present reflects the increase in assessed and market value, Your Honor. But

**[03:43:09.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the SALN merely requires the declarant to write the acquisition cost, not the market value.

**[03:43:15.270] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:43:16.020] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, may we also make a counter-manifestation since he was allowed?

**[03:43:20.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney John, in light of the manifestation of Attorney Lindon.

**[03:43:23.500] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Your Honor, it's also worthy to note that this property subject matter of the title, Your Honor, is in Kembali Resort. It's an exclusive resort subdivision, Your Honor. So the price does not go down, it goes up.

**[03:43:36.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted, counsel, but that did not come from the witness. Same is true with the manifestation of Attorney Lindon. Senator-Judge Villanueva, you may proceed, sir. You have 10 minutes.

**[03:43:46.160] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Yes, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I will no longer ask questions because I think I'm interested again in asking the same question and I already know the answer. would be the same. So again, let me just put into the records as mentioned earlier that this court needs evidence tracing who actually paid for this property and where the funds came from and we need probably Mr. President, seller's payment, records, loan disbursement records and if loan is being relied on and bank or AMLC records specifically linked to this acquisition. This will help definitely establish how this transaction supports the allegations under Article 2. So, I hope, Mr. President, that we can proceed now to the next witness. Thank you, Mr. President.

**[03:44:41.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator-Judge Villanueva. If there are no other Senator-Judges who wishes to make an interjection, the Chair will wind it up. Mr. Attorney... Pinela.

**[03:44:54.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May I ask, ang nakalagay po sa titlo, hindi ba technical description lamang ng lupa at hindi address? Kunwari, ang bahay po namin sa probinsya, kilometer 584, Maharlika Highway, Barangay Buhatan, Sorsogon City, Province of Sorsogon, wala pong address sa titlo, di po ba?

**[03:45:17.410] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Meron po yung under the registered owners po na caption.

**[03:45:20.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung address po ng may-ari pero hindi po yung address nung lupaing binibili subject matter of the TCT.

**[03:45:27.390] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Meron lang po yung caption sa itaas po kung saan na situated po, your honor.

**[03:45:32.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Nakalagay nga lang po yung address nung registered owner.

**[03:45:37.150] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Hindi po yung pinakauna po yung parang preface niya. It is hereby certified that certain land situated in Matanos.

**[03:45:46.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kaya yung barangay po nakalagay pero hindi po address nga talaga. May numero at may kalye.

**[03:45:51.870] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tumpak po yun, Your Honor.

**[03:45:53.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Wala pa po kayong nakitang titolo, TCT man o OCT, na nakalagay na description ng lupa, yung actual na street number and street name plus barangay and city.

**[03:46:05.790] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tama po yun, Your Honor.

**[03:46:07.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ang mababasa po lamang ay technical description.

**[03:46:10.610] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[03:46:11.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ibig sabihin, from a point beginning 1-2 on the northeast, x meters, x degrees, hindi po ba ganun lang?

**[03:46:17.810] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Sangayon po ako dun, Your Honor.

**[03:46:19.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kaya nga kailangan po ng surveyor para tiyakin na yung technical description sa titulo, yun nga ay tumutugma sa lupa yung binili ninyo.

**[03:46:26.770] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Opo, Your Honor.

**[03:46:27.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, hindi po ganung kadali na imatch yung address, kung may street address man yung bahay na binili, kung bahay man po yun, dito sa titulo.

**[03:46:39.600] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tama po yun, Your Honor.

**[03:46:41.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Isa pa pong tanong.

**[03:46:44.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the SALN of the Vice President in 2015 and 2016 and 2017, she declared a property in Icagos stating that she bought a property in 2013 but it first appeared only in her SALN in 2015 and then she wrote installment in 2015 as pointed out by the Senate.

**[03:47:15.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Installment in 2015, Deferred Installment in 2016, which she described as Deferred Installment again in 2017, and in 2018 declared it as a sale. So, posible po ba na sale

**[03:47:35.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
on installment itong lupa ang pinag-uusapan natin at dineklara lamang nung fully paid na ito? Is that possible if you know, sir?

**[03:47:46.920] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Apologies, Your Honor. I have no personal knowledge, sir.

**[03:47:49.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero nakakita na kayo ng mga dupain, Atty. Marco, na binibenta on installment sale.

**[03:47:56.720] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Meron po yung sa gobyerno po yung sa National Housing Finance Corporation. Meron pong ganun na pautang.

**[03:48:05.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ito na lang po. Will you register a contract to sell? In the register of deeds and transfer ownership to the buyer?

**[03:48:12.990] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
No sir, it is your honor, it is merely an annotation to the title.

**[03:48:17.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So it is only a deed of sale that you will register, if at all, in the register of deeds as evidence of transfer of real estate property?

**[03:48:26.090] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Yes, your honor. Those which are simply contracts to sell or conditional sale, we may annotate that as part of the incumbrances but there is no transfer so the title remains in the name of the original. Registered owner po, your honor.

**[03:48:40.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That is perhaps one thing for the civil service to look at dahil ang dinedeklara po sa SAL-N ay general description lamang ng real property at hindi po ganung kadali, para din sa kaalaman ng ating mga manonood at viewing public, hindi po ganung kasimplang ipagtugma yung aktual na lupain o lugar dun sa dineklara sa SAL-N at dun sa nasa titulo dahil magkakaiba po ang nilalaman po nun. Tama po ba yun, Atty. Marco?

**[03:49:06.620] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
Tama po yun, your honor.

**[03:49:08.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you very much. If there are no other senator-judges who wishes to make interjections, we shall dispense with this witness.

**[03:49:16.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Marco, maraming salamat po sa inyong panahon, pasensya, at pagtugon-pagsagot sa mga katanungan ng abogado ng magkabilang partido, gayon din ng ilang senator-judges. You are excused, sir, and thank you very much.

**[03:49:28.660] Atty. Marco K. Pineda**  
The honor is all mine, Your Honor. Thank you po. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:49:32.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Chair declares a brief recess upon the request of the parties for a sidebar before we call on the next witness. The next witness, Attorney John, is the AMLAC representative or head, correct?

**[03:49:46.160] Rep. Jonathan Keith T. Flores**  
Yes, Your Honor. The next witness.

**[03:49:47.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Chair declares a brief recess of 10 minutes.

**[05:02:58.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For your record, the chair called for a brief recess upon the request of council correspondent for a sidebar where we discussed some matters pertaining to the next witness, particularly some provisions in the AMLC Law 9-160 as amended, which the chair during the recess brought up in caucus. and inform the senators to take it, senator-judges to take the same under-advisement for the matter to be decided upon when trial resumes.

**[05:03:40.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Also, Attorney Sheila kindly confirmed, during the sidebar, can you be the one, Attorney Sheila? Attorney Sheila also raised some...

**[05:03:56.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Concerns given the voluminous documents that the AMLC will be presenting, best to come from your own words, Attorney Sheila.

**[05:04:03.110] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That's correct, Your Honor. Thank you. I confirm that we raised some concerns after perusal of the summaries that were mentioned by the lead prosecutor earlier this morning. I also would like just to correct the record that

**[05:04:25.710] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Actually, we're able to receive this through our office email at 9.34 a.m. but this was only forwarded to us at 11.28 a.m. and we were only able to see these during the lunch break. But going back to our concern, we just noticed that this document consists or the summaries including the cover letter submitted by Executive Director of the Secretariat of the Anti-Money Laundering Council, Atty. Ronel Buenaventura, consisting of 11 pages, actually has on each and every page of this document a strictly confidential mark. And this repeats in the entire submission including the accompanying summaries. identified as Annex A, and so on and so forth. There is also a portion in the cover letter dated October 1, 2026 of the Executive Director of AMLC addressed to the lead of the panel of the prosecutors explicitly saying that the AMLC is not waiving the confidentiality of AMLC records. Now, in view of that, and Section 8-A of AMLA as amended by Republic Act No. 11521 and as well as the fact that we just received copies of these summaries today. which now will involve an undertaking of a review of at least 23 to 24 boxes of documents on the part of the defense. And without a review of that, we cannot imagine how we would be able to intelligently respond to the questioning of the prosecution to their intended witness should it come to that. And raise the proper grounds, therefore, without examination of the documents that we need to do to appreciate the so-called summaries here, in addition, of course, to our objection that we may raise on the confidentiality, absolute confidentiality of these records. And we note, Your Honor, that when this court ruled to grant the request for subpoena of the prosecution in July 20, 2026, I think the limitation of that ruling was only on the issuance of the subpoena. And the court had made clear that that ruling is without prejudice to the eventual objection at the proper time that will come from the respondent. Also, in the journal that we had reviewed on that ruling, it cited the case of Republic v. Sandiganbayan to justify the grant of the request for subpoena. But we would note that that case was decided at the time when the amendatory law, Republic Act No. 11521, was not yet in effect. And the facts of the case obtaining were under the old law, before the passage of the old law, providing for the absolute confidentiality of the AMLC records. Just those for now, Your Honor.

**[05:08:23.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
out of an abundance of caution, as used by Attorney Sheila also last week, Ex-Abundante Gautela furnished the Senator-Judges with a copy of the provisions of the law raised by the Council of Respondents, again, for their perusal and for them to study before we make an intelligent judgment on the matter when we resume. Kaugnay nung isa po niyong sinabi, Atty. Sheila, sa madali salita, kailangan niyo pa ng panahon para maghandaan at maghanda. Para sa cross-examination at kung sakasakali kahandaan din na mag-object sa direct examination kung may mga punto mang dapat objectan. Tama po ba?

**[05:09:10.710] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That is correct, Your Honor, but not only to time to prepare for the cross-examination and to object to the direct examination, but as well as to offer a proper comment to the offer of the testimonial evidence.

**[05:09:28.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And during the recess, during the sidebar, Atty. Sheila, do you also confirm that you requested for Monday to do this?

**[05:09:38.320] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Not exactly a request, Your Honor, but I think that schedule was considered earlier.

**[05:09:50.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The subpoenas to be issued were only given now. We will be issuing the subpoenas for the respective banks and insurance companies today. Hence, it would be too late to serve them for any witness to be presented tomorrow because originally we were planning to spend this afternoon and tomorrow for AMLC for both parties as well as the senator-judges. Hence, there will be no available witness tomorrow through no fault of the prosecution. And given that, we will be expecting the other witnesses to appear on Monday. Monday it shall be for us to continue with this trial. Honorable Diokno is recognized. You seem to be indicating that you wish to talk. Yes, Honorable

**[05:10:37.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Diokno.

**[05:10:38.130] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Thank you, Your Honor. I did not want to interrupt the Honorable Presiding Officer. If I may be allowed to respond to some of the Statements made by the defense counsel. First of all, Your Honor, the records will bear me out that the documents of the Anti-Money Laundering Council were provided to the defense way back in September 2. That is, I believe, enough time for them to have produced the documents and prepared for the presentation of the... Witness from the AMLC. Second, if your honor please, this matter was actually resolved directly by this honorable court on July 20, 2026 and I did not hear the defense counsel address this particular portion of the ruling of this court which I may be allowed to read if I may. I quote, The defense vigorously argues that the AMLC is absolutely shielded from this court's compulsory process by the confidentiality provisions of Section 80 of the Anti-Money Laundering Act as amended and warrants that compliance with exposed AMLC officers to criminal sanctions for breach of confidentiality. The court, however, finds this argument unavailing. Section 8-A, this is referring to the Anti-Money Laundering Law, Regulates unauthorized and arbitrary disclosures by AMLC personnel. It does not and constitutionally cannot nullify the lawful subpoena powers of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court where compliance with the lawful constitutional subpoena is a justifying circumstance that if at all would extinguish any penal liability under Article 11, Paragraph 6 of the Revised Penal Code for any person acting in obedience to an order issued by a superior or some other lawful purpose. And I believe, Your Honor, that that ruling still stands. Neither the prosecution or the defense has any standing under the rules to move for its reconsideration. If ever, only an honorable member of this court may do so. And Your Honor, in that respect, the statements of the defense are really in the nature of a motion for reconsideration, which as I said, is not allowed. Now, if we were to address the substance of the arguments, may I simply say, and I believe I have said this before, that Section 8-A was only intended to prevent leaks by officers or employees. of the Anti-Money Laundering Council. It was never intended as a blanket shield for any lawful subpoenas issued by a proper court. In fact, very often, I remember also saying this before that the Sandigan Bayan has issued subpoenas to the Anti-Money Laundering Council and they have appeared before that court and brought documents despite the existence of Section 8A. I see no difference

**[05:13:53.920] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Between this Honorable Court exercising its subpoena power and in fact its power to try and decide this case given directly by the Constitution is even more impelling and compelling than a subpoena issued by the Sandiganbayan in the course of its exercise of its jurisdiction. Therefore, if Your Honors please, we respectfully submit that we put our witness on the stand. We proceed with the direct examination. If there are any objections to the offer or to any specific questions, of course, the defense, we would gladly hear them and argue with them about it. But I believe we should move forward already with the presentation of this witness.

**[05:14:42.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you.

**[05:14:45.460] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
The gentleman quoted, and I will quote. The same portion of the journal dated July 20, 2026 that the Honorable Congressman Diokno read. It says here, The defense vigorously argues that the AMLC is absolutely shielded from this court's compulsory process by the confidentiality provisions of Section 8 of the Anti-Money Laundering Act as amended and warrants that compliance with exposed AMLC officers to criminal sanctions for breach of confidentiality. However, I think it may have escaped the attention of the gentleman the following paragraph. It says here, The court, however, finds this argument unavailing. Section 8-A regulates unauthorized and arbitrary disclosures by AMLC personnel. It does not and constitutionally cannot nullify the lawful subpoena powers of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court where compliance with the lawful constitutional

**[05:15:52.680] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
subpoena and to be continued.

**[05:15:55.200] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
So in other words, even this court as early as July 20, 2026 had recognized that there is absolute confidentiality involving AMLC personnel and the witness about to be presented by the prosecution today is undeniably Not only at AMLC personnel, but the Executive Director of its Secretariat, Your Honor.

**[05:16:19.590] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That's my short rebuttal, Your Honor.

**[05:16:21.970] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you.

**[05:16:22.370] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Just one brief, one sentence response.

**[05:16:25.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
One sentence, sir, rebuttal. Good, sir. Yes, Honorable Diokno.

**[05:16:29.430] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Your Honor, if the Court, as claimed by the Defense Counsel, recognized the absolute confidentiality, then why did it issue this subpoena in the first place? That's all, Your Honor.

**[05:16:41.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court will make a ruling.

**[05:16:45.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Senator-Judge Sotto is recognized.

**[05:16:49.360] Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III**  
I am not aware of what the presiding officer's ruling would be, but I have very strong reservations about postponing any proceedings this afternoon because all this time I am... I've thought that the prosecution and the defense have been ready with this since July, since the time we took an oath. Talab na nila kung ano yung mga parating eh. Di ba? So I don't think many would enjoy a postponement only because they were not given proper time. This was since July. And I understand September 2 being in the defense. I'm speaking for the public, Mr. Presiding Officer, Your Honor. So I leave it to you and my colleagues, but I have very strong reservations of not proceeding this afternoon.

**[05:17:51.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The comments of Senator-Judge Sotto are duly noted. Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano, thereafter, Senator-Judge Risa Hontiveros.

**[05:17:59.280] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Mr. Presiding Officer, I share former Senator Tito Sotto's concern. Not to postpone.

**[05:18:06.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Former Senate President.

**[05:18:07.890] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Former Senate President, sorry. Former Senate President more than once. He was our majority, minority leader and Senate President in two administrations. Sorry, Senator Soto. But I agree with you na we shouldn't keep postponing. I agree with Congressman Diokno that we will move forward. Upon verification, I do agree that when the subpoena was issued and all these documents. But I also take note that the summaries were only sent this morning. And I don't mean to prejudge everything you've presented before this. But if I can use the word main event, one of the, if not the main event of this trial, the same as the corona trial, is actually the questions about financial impropriety or graph and corruption and about the actual finances of the respondent accused. So in a democracy, the result is important but the process is as important. That's why we all believe hopefully that the end does not justify the means. So, I don't think the defense is asking for a month, a week. They're asking for this afternoon and tomorrow. So, meaning on Monday. Because the problem, Mr. Presiding Officer, is that when we want the result right away, we also want fairness. There are so many issues from the Presiding Officer to the threshold through... Whether or not AMLLC has actually shown this document to others or have they been faithful in not sharing this document. Ang dami pong issues eh. So we don't want to add to that in saying that the defense wasn't given the opportunity to go through all of this and the senator-judges to see to the issues that the defense is... that the defense... Mayrace today or on Monday. So my point, Mr. President, is that just like the budget hearings, we have to balance the speed with fairness. So we all want results. Kung pwede, ipasa na natin yung 2027 budget tomorrow. Kung pwede, tapusin na natin ang prosecution tomorrow, next week yung defense na. But that has to be balanced with fairness. And it's the same thing in the... prosecution side. If the defense in their turn presents certain documents that you feel you need an afternoon or a day or weekend to read, I think prudence dictates that we give in to that. Subject to the defense not abusing that request na every time may dokumentong Tingin nila ngayon lang nila nakita ay hihingin nila na ipabukas o ipanext week na. So my small contribution today, Mr. President, is I think it will speak well of this impeachment court if we balance fairness and if the prosecution would so see fit that, you know, if you were in the shoes of the defense, you'd also like to go through all of this and make intelligent

**[05:21:40.280] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Decisions from their comments to the offer to whether or not they will object to the presentation to questioning the witness and even asking the court whether or not this can be submitted to us or whatever it is. Fairness, I think, dictates that we give each other enough time. So that's my humble opinion, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you.

**[05:22:12.330] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. Regardless po kung iyong mga pananalita ay galing sa prosecution o sa defense at bago po mag-ruling ang Presiding Officer para sa impeachment court, kailangan ko lang po sabihin ng representasyong ito, Mr. Presiding Officer, nasa isyong tinatalakay at importanteng i-gawin ito of record. para sa mga susunod na trial days na haharapin natin o di kaya para sa mga susunod na posibleng impeachment trial sa mga susunod na taon. Wala pong sinasabing absolute confidentiality na nagdatali sa kamay ng isang impeachment court sa usaping ito na tinatalakay natin sa ngayon. For the record po, Mr. Presiding Officer, yung confidentiality requirement para sa AMLAC officials sa mismong Anti-Money Laundering Act ay prohibition sa indiscriminate o voluntaryong pag-leak ng impormasyon. Hindi po yan prohibition sa compliance sa sabina issued ng isang proper court. Kasama na po ang isang impeachment court. Hindi po ito prohibition sa compliance o hindi po ito prohibition sa lawful disclosure ng impormasyon sa mga law enforcement agencies. Kasi po ang isang absolute reading ay magiging na pong Kabulastugan dahil hindi na po magagawa ng AMLOC ang mismong trabaho niya kung bakit siya nilikha ng ating batas. And in this case po, Mr. Presiding Officer, mukha namang willing mag-testigo ang AMLOC official. Ano pa man po ang maging ruling po ng Korte sa pamamagitan ng ating Presiding Officer kung itutuloy po niya ngayong hapon. or Bukas pa kaya. At magpatuloy ang trial na ito sa mga usapin ng records ng mga bangko sa susunod na linggo. Kinailangan lang po nitong representasyon bilang miyembro ng impeachment court na ito. Going of record po itong mga... Itong mga puntong ito. As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Presiding Officer, hindi lang para sa kasalukuyang trial, pero sa mga susunod pa kung sa kasagali, kung kailan ang mga impeachment courts na iyon ay maaaring mga ilangan tawagin ang AMLOC or rather... Either side, prosecution or defense, tawagin ang mga opisyal ng AMLAC bilang mga testigo, Mr. Presiding Officer. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[05:25:13.880] Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan**  
Thank you very much, Mr. Presiding Officer. Just very briefly, I share the concern of some of our colleagues regarding the matter having been resolved by way of oral arguments in July. and as such therefore there should be no reason why we should go back reiterate or return to the debate but I also recognize that that this is a one day trial delay in other words I think the prosecution is asking for Monday so So, hindi naman nila hininging Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. So, if we're going to miss one day to be able to process this and have both panels prepare, I would go by allowing for that one day, one trial day delay. I think it's reasonable in that regard. For the record, Mr. President.

**[05:26:18.900] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Your Honor, Your Honor, if I may just make a brief manifestation.

**[05:26:25.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Make it brief, Atty. Honorable Chel.

**[05:26:27.940] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
The request emanated from the defense, not from the prosecution. Just for the record.

**[05:26:34.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We confirm that. Chair will make a ruling.

**[05:26:38.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Chair did not consider the sidebar of Atty. Sheila as a motion for reconsideration. As the Chair said earlier, ex abundante cautela, out of the exercise of extreme caution, the Chair decided. To furnish the Senator-Judges with a copy of, to be specific, Section 9C and Section 14D of RA No. 9160 as amended by Republic Act No. 11521, specifically Section 8A of the same. Again, out of an abundance of caution, just for them to be able to look at it again because the initial look-see was simply made by the presiding officer when it made a ruling in order to afford any senator-judge ample opportunity and time as well to raise a question if anyone should desire to do so and the matter will be settled either in caucus or in open session on Monday. Number two, on the requested time of the respondent or counsel-respondent to prepare adequately for the MLC, I believe this is the... This is only the first time that this is being done in excess of the day. So, ex comitate, ex aequo, out of courtesy and equity, the chair grants the time requested by the council correspondent for time to prepare for the direct and cross-examination of the AMLC witness on Monday. Therefore, the Clerk of Court is directed to amend and issue the corresponding subpoena to be issued to him again and to the other bank officials to October 6 and 7 and October 5 and 6 respectively for the insurance companies and the bank officials and BIR in accordance with the sequence requested by the Council. Rather, the sequence mentioned by the lead prosecutor earlier. So, there...

**[05:28:52.800] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[05:28:55.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There being no other matters to be taken up, yes, Senator-Judge Zabiri, wala tayong session mamaya.

**[05:29:08.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, um... The Honorable Chelle Diokno, I think, or the lead prosecutor would be in a better position to enumerate it once again for the information of the Senator-Judges. So we will begin with AMLC on Monday followed by BIR, I believe, if I remember correctly.

**[05:29:28.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And then the bank officials and then the insurance companies. The sequence of the bank officials will be as they appeared in the motion for the request for subpoena. and the sequence of the insurance companies will also be in the sequence as they appear in the motion for request for subpoena. The Clerk of Court is directed to come up with a calendar of the sequence of the witnesses for the information and reference of the Senator-Judges.

**[05:30:00.000] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
If I recall, I'm sorry, Your Honor, thank you. If I recall the manifestation of the chair earlier, our team leader, I don't recall her mentioning the BIR unless it refers to the authenticating witnesses.

**[05:30:12.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There was a subpoena for the BIR for October 5.

**[05:30:19.300] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Insofar as the order is concerned, Your Honor, please, we will present, with the permission of the court, the banks and insurance companies before we present the BIR witness.

**[05:30:31.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To be fair, nag-iisa lang yung lamang ng motion for request for subpoena sa BIR. Wala siya sa sequence ng banks at insurance companies. So the BIR will be after the banks and the insurance companies?

**[05:30:44.410] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[05:30:45.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We will come up with an advisory in accordance with this manifestation for the information of the Senator-judges and for confirmation by the parties too at the appropriate time on Monday. Attorney Sheila?

**[05:30:57.670] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Actually, Your Honor, in my notes from the manifestation of the lead prosecutor earlier, she said that, number one, they will no longer present the former Senator Trillanes, and they were supposed to present next the AMLC witness. On October 5, on Monday, they will present the BIR witness. And on Tuesday, the bank's insurance... I mean, it's their prerogative, Your Honor. I just want to clarify if they will stick with this order of presentation.

**[05:31:30.580] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
We will present after, first we will begin with the Anti-Money Laundering Council Executive Director, Your Honor. Then we will proceed to the banks and insurance companies and present the BIR after.

**[05:31:43.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If you will be in a position, Honorable Diokno, or anyone from the panel of prosecutors, Can you kindly furnish at least a day before any tables or summaries that any of your witnesses from the banks, insurance companies, or the BAR will be presenting to give adequate notice or sufficient notice, rather, and information to the counsel for the respondents to avoid this situation from occurring again next week?

**[05:32:14.500] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
We will do so, Your Honor.

**[05:32:15.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If you're in a position to do so.

**[05:32:17.040] Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno**  
Yes, sir.

**[05:32:17.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge, Lacson is recognized. What is your pleasure, sir?

**[05:32:20.710] Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson**  
Thank you, Mr. President. This is for our fellow Senator-Judges. When we do our research over the weekend, kindly include Section 2, Republic Act 1405. It makes an exception for impeachment cases. And even the Supreme Court recognizes the statutory exception pagdating sa mga impeachment cases. Thank you.

**[05:32:50.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If there are no other matters to be taken up, again, as per the request of the Counsel for the Respondents and granted by the Presiding Officer, there will be no trial tomorrow and trial shall resume on Monday. In the meantime, trial is hereby adjourned for today and we shall resume on Monday, October 5 at 10 o'clock in the morning. And according to the Senate President, ito na yung bawi niya sa Family Day na hindi na-celebrate nung Monday. We are adjourned.