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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The Sergeant at Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

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Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Aimee Marcos.

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Sen. Imee Marcos: Mahal naming Panginoon. Bantayan mo po ang aming bayan at pagkalooban mo ang iyong karunungan, ang mataas na kapulungang ito. Sa oras na kami ay humaharap sa mabibigat na pagpapasya, iadya mo kami sa pansariling interes, sa takot, sa impluensya, at sa anuman manipulasyon maaaring magpalihis sa aming paghatol. Ipaalala mo sa amin ang aming sinumpang tungkuling na pangalagaan ang konstitusyon at maging tapat sa katarungan. Nasusulat sa ating mga Salmo, Kapitulo 82, Versikulo 2, How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Panginoon, linisin mo ang aming budhi at patatagin mo ang aming loob upang ang aming pasya ay maging tapat sa batas at sa katotohanan, hindi sa aming pansariling interes. Ipaalala mo sa amin na ang kapangyarihan ay ipinagkakatiwala lamang at darating ang araw na bawat paghatol ay haharap sa pananagutan. Gabayan mo po kami, Panginoon, upang sa harap mo at sa harap ng aming bayan,

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Sen. Imee Marcos: Wala kaming pagsisising dala kundi ang katiyakang ginawa namin lahat ng nararapat.

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Sen. Imee Marcos: Amen.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senator-Judge, Lacson, Senator-Judge, Lapid, Senator-Judge, Legarda, Senator-Judge, Marcoleta, Senator-Judge, Marcos, Senator-Judge, Padilla, Senator-Judge, Pangilinan, Senator-Judge, Soto III, Senator-Judge, Tulfo Irwin, Senator-Judge, Tulfo Rafi, Senator-Judge, Villanueva, Senator-Judge, Villar Camil, Senator-Judge, Villar Marc, Senator-Judge, Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge, Escudero. The Senate President, Senator-Judge Gatchalian.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With 15 Senator-Judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure on Impeachment Trials, the Chair now recognizes the newly elected Presiding Officer to preside over the proceedings of the Impeachment Court.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the journal.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For September 22 and 23, that's journal number 29 of the Senate, sitting as an impeachment court, and consider the same as approved.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the impeachment court.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Saira Zimmerman III.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances of the parties.

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Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearances for the prosecution.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: respondent.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Good morning, your honors. Same appearance for the respondent accused.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I believe you are supposed to do the cross of witness Mr. Supeno today. Is that correct?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: your honor. We are ready.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: But before proceeding to the cross, your honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, honorable Ridon.

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Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Particular administrative matters. First would be our request for subpoenas.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will decide on that later before we adjourn council.

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Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Alright, we submit, Your Honor. And a second matter, on the marking of the documents which was brought by the witness previously, we would want it to be a single exhibit, P-Roman numeral 2, 271, page 1, and the same be continuously paginated, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted.

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Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Before proceeding, we yield to Congressman Diokno, please.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Will you be handling the cross-examination, Honorable Diokno?

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: No, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, what is your

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pleasure, Honorable Diokno?

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: If I may briefly address the matter of the request for admission in so far as the objections that we received last week from the defense. If I may have a few minutes of the Honorable Court to make a manifestation and a proposal that we hope will facilitate the proceedings in this case.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will allow it for a bit because the court intends to tackle that or take that up before we adjourn today given that I believe the issues have been joined already given the objection of the respondent. I will allow Attorney Sheila to respond as well with a brief rebuttal. Yes, Honorable Diokno, you may proceed.

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: Thank you. If Your Honor is pleased, good morning. Good morning to our colleagues in the defense panel. For context, Your Honor, the prosecution filed a request for admission. to narrow the matters genuine in dispute, conserve the Honorable Court's valuable time for issues that truly require evidence and resolution, and ensure that the proceedings are conducted fairly and efficiently for the benefit of all the parties. Inihain po namin ang request for admission upang maging mas maayos at mabilis ang paglilitis po nitong kaso. Ito lang po ang aming layunin na tukuyin kung alin ang tunay na pinagtatalunan nang hindi na kailangan ubusin Ang oras ng hukuman sa mga bagay na maaari namang kilalanin o hindi naman talaga kontrobersyal. The request covers certain self-evident and factual matters, including records produced and submitted directly by several banks in compliance with the subpoenas issued by this court. Among others, the respondent was simply requested to admit or deny the existence, genuineness, and authenticity of these bank records. On September 23, 2026, the respondent filed her objection. She principally argues that Rule 26 is supposedly inapplicable to impeachment proceedings, that requiring her to answer would supposedly violate her right against self-incrimination and improperly shift the burden of proof, and that certain requested matters allegedly implicate marital or filial privileges are irrelevant or fall outside

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: The Honorable Court's permission, the prosecution will briefly explain why the objection should be overruled and how resolving this matter may substantially streamline and shorten the presentation of evidence and conserve the valuable time of this honorable court. Your Honors, with due respect, none of the grounds raised by the respondent justifies the wholesale rejection of the prosecution's request for admission.

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: The respondent argues that Rule 26 is inapplicable because impeachment proceedings are penal in character. But an impeachment trial, Your Honors, is neither an ordinary civil action nor a criminal prosecution. It is, as we have repeatedly said, a sui generis constitutional proceeding governed principally by the rules of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court. Where those rules do not specifically provide otherwise, the rules of court may be applied suppletorily. Subject always to the control and discretion of this Court. Hindi po criminal case ang impeachment trial at malinaw po sa Senate rules na dapat gamitin ang Rules of Court in a suppletory character. Kasama po sa Rules of Court ang request for admission kaya hindi sapat na sabihin penal in character ang impeachment upang tuluyang ipagbawal ito. The request for admission is not being invoked to alter the burden of proof or to compel the respondent to establish the prosecution's case and will not have that effect. Its purpose is simply to narrow the issues and avoid the needless presentation of witnesses and evidence on matters that are not genuinely disputed. Ang mga bank records na tinukoy po namin sa request for admission ay galing mismo sa mga bangko at idinerecho sa hukumang ito. Hindi po ito dumaan sa kamay ng prosekyusyon. To be clear, the respondent has not made any claim that they are fake or fabricated. Ang nagsubmit nitong records ay hindi po mga pipitsugin na bangko. These are known banks who would not submit fake documents to this court. They know how important this case is. They know the whole nation is watching. Nakataya ang kanilang pangalan at reputasyon dito. That is why we are saying that the authenticity of the bank documents is not genuinely disputed. Second, the request does not violate the respondent's rights against self-incrimination. It does not require her to take the witness stand, give an oral confession, or create evidence that is not already available to the parties and to this court. More importantly, most of the requested matters concern only the existence and authenticity of documents already produced by independent banks in compliance with the order or subpoena issued by this court. Indeed, the request merely seeks recognition of existing records, does not compel the respondent to generate new testimonial or documentary evidence against herself. The respondent relies on authorities involving an accused in a criminal prosecution. These rulings, we submit, should not be mechanically extended to this sui generis proceeding, particularly with respect to neutral and disputable matters that do not, by themselves, establish liability or culpability. Wala pong paglabag sa karapatan ng respondent laban sa self-incrimination, Your Honest Peace. Hindi po namin siya pinapaamin sa anumang kasalanan o pananagutan. Ang hinihingi lang po namin ay ang pagkilala sa mga dokumentong sinabmit mismo ng mga bangko pursuant to the subpoenas of this Court. Sa mga bagay na hindi naman tunay na pinagtatalo namin. Third, the request does not shift the burden of proof. An admission merely dispenses with proof of a matter that is no longer genuinely disputed. It has absolutely no effect on who has the burden of proof. Ang purpose lamang po ng aming request ay huwag ng pag-aksayahan ng oras ng hukuman ang mga bagay na hindi naman kailangan patunayan pa. Fourth, The marital and filial privileges cited by the respondent do not justify striking out the entire request. Those privileges generally concern the compelled testimony of one spouse against the other or of a person against a parent or child. Here, the prosecution is not compelling the respondent to testify against her spouse, parent or child. At most, any claim of privilege, if legitimate, should be considered in relation to the particular matter affected. It is not a basis for expunging the prosecution's request in its entirety. Hindi po nagiging privilege ang isang dokumento dahil lamang nabanggit dito ang asawang magulang o anak ng respondent. Hindi po natin pinipilit ang respondent na tumistigo sa kanya asawa. At kung meron mang particular na paksa na saklaw talaga ng privilege, iyon lamang ang dapat tukuyin at resolbahan. Hindi po dapat ibasura ang buong request for admission dahil lang doon. Fifth, the respondent's generalized objections based on relevance, remoteness, or the periods covered by the records cannot justify the wholesale rejection of the request. At the very least, this honorable court has already determined that there was sufficient basis to require the banks to produce these records through its compulsory process. Finally, the request is not a belated attempt to cure a deficiency in the prosecution's evidence. Again, the bank's records were produced during these proceedings pursuant to subpoenas. Once the records became available, the prosecution properly sought to narrow the issues surrounding them and avoid consuming the court's time by presenting numerous witnesses simply to establish matters that should not reasonably be disputed. Hindi po ito afterthought, Your Honors. Gaya ng nasabi ko kanina, inihain po ang request ng maging available ang mga dokumentong sinubmit ng mga bangko alinsunod sa SabPinas ng hukuman. Ang layunin po ay simple, tukuyin kung alin ang tunay na pinagtatalunan at huwag nang ubusin ang panahon at oras ng Korte sa pagpapatawag ng maraming witnesses para lamang patunayan ng mga bagay na hindi naman genuinely disputed. Your Honor, for these reasons, the prosecution respectfully submits that the objection should be overruled and that the matters covered by the request should be deemed admitted pursuant to Rule 26 of the Rules of Court. But, Your Honor, please, nevertheless, in the spirit of cooperation and to avoid unnecessary delay or disagreement, the prosecution has a proposal or proposition for the respondent. In their objection, the respondent claims And I quote, if indeed, this is from paragraph 41 for the record, quote, if indeed their intent was to shorten the proceedings, the prosecution has itself repeatedly utilized stipulations to dispense with the presentation of matters that are not genuinely disputed. If speed were truly the objective, the same course remained available. Since according to the respondent, the same course remains available, We are willing to enter into stipulations with the respondent in relation to the bank documents, as well as other documents produced by witnesses through the subpoenas issued by this court. These stipulations will be limited only to three basic matters. Number one, that the bank records exist. Number two, that they were produced by the identified banks pursuant to subpoenas issued by this honorable court. And number three, that they are genuine and authentic copies of the records maintained and produced by those banks. Ganun lang po kasimple, Your Honors. We will withdraw our request for admission if the respondent will agree to this. The proposed stipulations would not require the respondent to admit liability, the truth or accuracy of every entry, or the prosecution's interpretation of any transaction. The respondent would remain free to contest the relevance, meaning, Evidentiary weight and legal effect of the records. Kung makapagkasundoan po tayo to the defense, we would be able to dispense with about at least 10 to 20 witnesses who would be testifying on the same things anyway. Kung iaharap pa natin ng humigit-kumulang 20 karagdagan testigo para lang patunayan ng mga foundational matters na ito, malaking bahagi ng oras ng mga pagdinig ang masasayang. sa mga bagay na hindi naman tunay na pinagtatalo. In conclusion, Your Honor, the respondent herself expressly declared that stipulations remain available. The prosecution is prepared to take the respondent at her word. Therefore, we invite the respondent to engage in stipulations on these matters so that we can proceed with the actual litigation that must be done in this case. Maraming salamat po.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Diokno, you filed a motion for admission. The opposing counsel, counsel for respondent, filed an objection thereto. You just delivered your rejoinder. Is it written, counsel? I saw you reading.

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I may

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: submit that.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you submit that rejoinder to the court, please?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Court now recognizes Attorney Sheila for her sir rejoinder to counsel's rejoinder to the issue. You may proceed, ma'am.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good morning, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Good morning.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We will no longer quibble with the arguments propounded today by the Honorable Diokno, considering also the penultimate statement that he had made in respect of the withdrawal of the request for admission in exchange for stipulation. But before we respond to that new proposal in lieu, For the request for admission, we would just like to address a few points which we will put in writing and submit formally to the court given that the prosecution was also given the opportunity to provide a written rejoinder to the objection or reply to the objection.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: The prosecution claims that the defense relies on authorities.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That only deals or involves criminal cases, that actually is not true, Your Honor. In fact, we have as early as 1969 a

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Supreme Court decision. This is Pascual Jr. versus Board of Medical Examiners, which involves an administrative proceeding for future. And in this case, despite this being a mere administrative proceeding, the Court nonetheless upheld the right of the respondent to the absolute self-right against self-incrimination. In fact, and I will state the ruling of the court, the broad all-embracing sweep of the self-incrimination clause whenever appropriately invoked has been accorded due recognition by this court ever since the adoption of the Constitution. Bermudez versus Castillo. decided in 1937, ganun na po katagal ang garantiang ito, was quite categorical. As we there stated, this court is of the opinion that in order that the constitutional provision under consideration may prove to be a real protection and not a dead letter, it must be given a liberal and broad interpretation favorable to the person invoking it. The proceeding for forfeiture, while administrative in character, thus possesses a criminal or penal aspect. The case before us is not dissimilar. Petitioner would be similarly disadvantaged. He could suffer not the forfeiture of property, but the revocation of his license as a medical practitioner. For some, an even greater deprivation. The constitutional guarantee protects as well the right to silence. As far back as 1905, we had the occasion to declare, the accused has a perfect right to remain silent, and his silence cannot be used as a presumption of his guilt. Only last year in Chavez v. Court of Appeals speaking through Justice Sanchez, we reaffirmed the doctrine anew that it is the right of a defendant to forgo testimony. To remain silent unless he chooses to take the witness stand with undiluted, unfettered exercise of his own free, genuine will. Why it should be thus is not difficult to discern. The constitutional guarantee, along with other rights granted and accused, stands for a belief that while crime should not go unpunished and that the truth must be revealed, Such desirable objectives should not be accomplished according to means or methods offensive to the highest sense of respect accorded the human personality. More and more, in line with the democratic creed, the deference accorded an individual even though suspected of the most heinous crimes is given due weight. The quote from Chief Justice Warren, the Constitutional Foundation underlying the privilege is the respect of government. must accord to the dignity and integrity If the Supreme Court has applied the right against self-incrimination or the right to at least remain silent as far or as early as 1969 in a mere administrative proceeding because the proceeding as it had determined carries with it some penal sanction then all the more that this should be respected in an impeachment case regardless whether or not this is a Sui generis proceeding. Because the court had long recognized in INRE Corrileño that an impeachment trial is highly penal in character. Now, from 1969 up to present, there has been a string of cases that the court, where the court stated that this right of the accused, the responded accused in this case, not to testify or be compelled to testify is absolute your honor. At kung ito ay ginagamit o kinikilala at ginagalang sa isang administratibong proceeding lamang, di lalong higit na dapat itong igalang dito sa impeachment case na ito. Pangalawang bagay na nais naming

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: sagutin ay, uh, ang statement na no right or, uh, will be violated, or no right of the respondent will be violated, uh, by the request for the admission because it does not

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Ang problema rito sa ganitong assertion Ang ifinal ng prosecution ay isang request for admission under Rule 26 which the court had already observed to be a civil procedure means or mechanism. At sa ilalim ng Rule 26, sinasabi doon na in case na hindi makakasagot or ang respondent. Doon sa itinakdang panahon para sa pagsagot sa RFA o sa request for admission ay may tinatawag na implied admission. Now, the court also had consistently said that an admission is actually akin to a testimony. Kaya nga tawag admission. At kung ang garantiya ng Constitution natin ay pinagbabawal ang compulsion sa isang respondent o akusado na mag-testify against himself, dapat ding pagbawalan. Yung pagtatangka na kumuha ng tinatawag na admission, whether this is expressed through a response sa request for admission or implied by the operation of the rule under Rule 26.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: So, yung pong request for admission, bagamat kinikilala namin ang sinabi ngayon ng prosecution that They can withdraw the request for admission provided that we stipulate. Ang isa pa naming nakikitang concern dito ay hindi pa nga ako nasisimula ng pagmamarka ng mga dokumento na galing sa mga bangko. In fact, I was just informed that more documents are set today for marking, Your Honor. Ibig sabihin, wala rin sapat na panahon para makita ng respondent at ng kanyang mga abogado ang mga dokumento na ito and there will be no basis for any stipulation today or even tomorrow or even on Wednesday, Your Honor. And kung magkakaroon man tayo

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: ng stipulation, our suggestion is that the proposal for stipulation be made at the appropriate time. And that appropriate time is At the time when the prosecution will make its offer on the testimonial evidence accompanying any documentary evidence that they would want to present before this court. Yan lamang po. Thank

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Kindly submit, Attorney Sheila. You will submit your written surrender on this matter?

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We will, Your Honor.

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I just make a short two-sentence manifestation, Your Honor? Not really a response to the statements of... Atty. Sheila.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, briefly, Honorable Jofna.

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: I understand, Your Honor, that the exhibits from the first set of subpoenaed records have already been marked. What is ongoing in terms of marking are the documents that came in after, which I think can easily, if that is the only problem, can easily be surmounted by both parties. With respect to the other arguments, we will just submit our arguments, if Your Honor, please. Last manifestation, Your Honor, I believe the members of this honorable court are aware that just like in legislative inquiries, it's only when questions are propounded to a witness that the time is appropriate to raise the objection or to invoke the right against self-incrimination. That is all, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May I suggest, Attorney, rather honorable Diokno, kindly reduce your request for stipulation in writing? So that the other party can intelligently comment on it, whether at a later or appropriate time, kindly do so. Number two, with your intelligence, Attorney Sheila. After submission, the court will make a ruling on the matter, even if you are considering withdrawing it should the stipulation be made by counsel-forrespondent in order to guide the parties prospectively how to approach this matter and this issue and hopefully... also serve as a persuasive basis perhaps in future impeachment courts. So the court will not disregard the motion and the objection even if it is so withdrawn later if a stipulation should be agreed upon in order that this matter may be clarified. The court will issue the ruling within the week if not tomorrow. Yes, Attorney Sheila, before we move on to the witness.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. We'll make this quick. Just a short response to the last, um, point made by a prosecutor, um, Congressman, the Honorable Congressman Chel Diokno, that, um, the objection to any questions propounded, um, can only be made through—can only be made at the time when the question is propounded. Actually, Your Honor, that is not entirely accurate, Your Honor, because it is also, um, um, uh, basic that, um, the accused

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: occupies a different tier of protection when it comes to the right against self-incrimination or the right to remain silent. Kaya po, mula noon hanggang ngayon, ang pag-apply ng garantiang ito ay dalawang level. For an ordinary witness, tama iyon that the objection may only be made at the time when the question is propounded. Ngunit sa isang akusado, Dahil siya ay may ibang tier o level ng protection, this right is absolute, Your Honor. Thank you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, let's move on. Honorable Diokno, will you be the one to call the witness or will Attorney Erwin be the one to handle the witness?

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Rep. Jose Manuel “Chel” I. Diokno: May I yield to the Honorable Lead Prosecutor, Representative Luis Tro. But before that, just thank the defense for It's always a pleasure to have this exchange of views with the defense counsels. Thank you.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We will be proceeding with the cross of field jobs, Your Honor.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: And

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: this representation will

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: be assisting the witness.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And on the part of the respondent?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: It will be Atty. Roberto Narvaza Batongbakal, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Robby.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly situate the witness at Mr. Supena to the witness stand.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Robby, welcome back.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Morning, Your Honors.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ginong Supena, naunawaan niyo po na patuloy kayong tetestigo sa hukumang ito? At naunawaan niyo po ba na kayo'y patuloy na nasa ilalim ng pareho niyo pong pinanumpaan? Una kayong nagpakita dito sa hukumang ito?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Atty. Robby, you may proceed with your cross-examination when you're ready.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Supena, good morning.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Maganda kumala po, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Supena, during your direct examination, you said that you were the division chief? Of the EGPOD, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Can you remind us again what does EGPOD stand for?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Electronic Government Procurement Operation Division.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And during your direct examination, you also said that the PhilGEPs, it was created under procurement laws. Do you remember that?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, sir. Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And the declared policies under these procurement laws are, tell me if I'm correct, first is to promote transparency, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Also to promote public monitoring, correct?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: If you are aware.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Not public monitoring.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: If you're... Accountability?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I'm not aware.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Competition and government procurement?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Not aware.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Not aware.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And Mr. Witness, during your direct examination, you said that the PhilJeps portal serves as the single electric portal for all government procurement, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, po.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Procurement

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Rendell P. Sopeña: activities, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So by this, you mean this is where invitations to bids? Request for quotations, notices of award, notices to proceed, and other procurement and technical documents are uploaded, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Uploaded, and yung bid notice po, dun po kinikreate. Yes,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: thank you Mr. Witness.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And Mr. Supena, this PhilJaps portal, you also said this was accessible to the public, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes sir, correct.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So as long as you sign up, log in, it's accessible to practically anyone.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Capabilities po kahit hindi po nakaregister.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you. So the portal is accessible to merchants, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes. Potential bidders, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes. Public oversight committees, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And you said that once the procurement activity is fully conducted by the procuring entity, they would have to upload Procurement documents to fully close the bid. Do you remember saying that?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes sir, as part of the responsibilities.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Okay,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: thank you Mr. Witness.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: During your direct examination, you also brought a summary. Do you remember that?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes. And based on your summary, the documents that signify the award and the closing of the bids are

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Purchase Orders, Notices of Award, Back Resolutions, Abstract Quotation, and Certificate of Availability of Funds. Correct?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please. Since the

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: question

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: pertains to the summary, which during the direct, the witness testified to he prepared, may we request that the witness be confronted with the document, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have a copy of that already, right, Attorney Robby?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor, we already have a copy of that.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Did you bring your copy, Mr. Cepena?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I don't have, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala kang kopya nung summary mo? I

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Rendell P. Sopeña: submitted po kasi lahat nung dala ko.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala kang dala?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly furnish him, Assistant Counsel. Kindly show if you have an extra copy.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Unless you'll use it, Attorney Robby, in which case may I ask the Counsel, Assistant Counsel for the Prosecution to kindly furnish the witness with a copy of the summary?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor. May we ask the prosecution to show the Mr. Sopena a copy of the...

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dahil baka kailangan ni Atty. Robian sa kanyang cross?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Your Honor.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May we manifest, Your Honor, that the prosecution is using the official court's copy.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. For the record...

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May I request that assisting counsel be allowed to approach the witness?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsels from both sides may approach. Mr. Witness, Mr. Sopena, you may refer to your...

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: For

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: the better appreciation, Your Honor, of the viewing public, as well as the Honorable Senator-Judges, may we request the Tech Booth as well to flash this summary being referred to by the Defense Council, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Atty. Robby.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Honor, there's no need to flash, Your Honor, so we can be quick, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: there's no need, Honorable Uso.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We submit, Your Honor.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Are you there, Mr. Supena? Page 2?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Sir,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: what particular documents?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: This is the table where you listed projects numbers 1 to 49.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: I believe, Your Honor, that the defense is not referring to the summary prepared by reference of a lease. Of 1 to 49, I believe that the defense is pertaining to the Excel file which was extracted by the witness from the field job system as testified to by him during the direct examination, Your Honor.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor. I think the witness, I'm on the same page with Mr. Sopena already.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, okay. Witness may answer. Mr. Sopena, you may answer based on the document you're holding on to.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Do

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: you want me to repeat the question, Mr. Sopena?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: page 2. This is the Excel file or the list which shows bid reference, mode of procurement.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Sopena, let me ask the question again.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: based on the summary, the

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: documents that Signify the award and the closing of the bids are, among others, I'm just reading what's stated in the document. So these are purchase orders, notices of awards, the back resolution, abstract of quotation, and certificate of availability of funds, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct, sir. Ito po yung mga in-upload ng mga current entities.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Mr. Sopena. And that is listed under the column... that you denominated as uploaded award documents. Correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And Mr. Supena, the posting of the award, I will refer to them as award documents, Mr. Supena. The posting of the award documents on the PhilGeps portal signifies the completion of the procurement process for that specific project.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Objection, Your Honor.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: I

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: believe, Your Honor, that the witness is not or has no Personal knowledge to answer the question as to whether the uploading of those documents actually completed the entire procurement process. Your Honor, I wish to remind the Honorable Impeachment Court that during the direct, he repeatedly stated that his testimony or knowledge is based solely on what appears in Philjep's system. As to whether, Your Honor, the uploaded documents signifies the completion of the procurement process is beyond the personal knowledge and even beyond the scope of the testimony of the witness, your honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he knows, counsel, he may answer along those lines. If indeed he doesn't know, objection is overruled. Witness may answer. Mr. Cepena, alam niyo po ba yung sagot sa tanong ni Atty. Robbie?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on the system po, pag inupload na po nila yung mga documents, these documents, once nag-create po sila ng Award notice. We'll close po the bid notice created.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: That's good enough for me, Mr. Your Honors.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, Mr. Zopena, let's go to the... During your direct examination, you also mentioned 49 contracts supposedly awarded to GenCorp. Did I get that correctly?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, po.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, you mentioned 49.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, based on this summary, you confirmed that every contract awarded, supposedly awarded to GenCorp, had a corresponding award document. Correct?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Objection, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: The question of the defense is misleading. There is no statement or it was never established that in every invitation or bid notice there is an awarded contract, Your Honor.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your Honor, I'm just asking the witness to confirm what is written on the summary that he said He prepared your honor.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Again, witness is knowledgeable enough. He may answer if he knows. We submit your honor.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Can you please repeat the question, sir?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So the contracts to GenCorp had uploaded award documents based on your summary. Is that correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Only which indicated po. Ayan lang po yung mga inupload ng procuring entity.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Okay.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Ayan lang po yung came into my knowledge po.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Okay. So, Mr. Witness, so of course, these uploaded award documents were uploaded on the PhilGepps portal, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: uploaded to

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Rendell P. Sopeña: the PhilGepps portal by the procuring entity, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Which means, Mr. Witness, that these contracts awarded to GenCorp went through the PhilGepps portal, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Uploaded by the procuring entity, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And none of these transactions were hidden from the public, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, all the procurement data are publicly available, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And none of these transactions were hidden from regulatory agencies, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on the Filjet system.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: you, Mr. Witness. So, Mr. Witness, insofar as your office is concerned, these contracts, supposedly awarded to GenCorp, went through the procurement process, insofar as your office is concerned.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May I make a manifestation?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: The witness

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: repeatedly stated already that the testimony is based solely on what appears in the fieldship system. So may I request that the defense raise questions along those lines, Your Honor. He has no knowledge at all about the actual bidding process. So that whenever there are questions on procurement, I hope that the defense will be referring to the System of Failures, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The manifestation is noted. Counsel may proceed.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Supena, so just let me repeat the question. So these contracts supposedly awarded to GenCorp, insofar as your office is concerned, went through the procurement process, insofar as your office is concerned.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May I manifest a similar objection, Your Honor? I wish to request, Your Honor, the defense to be very particular about the use of procurement. Whether he is referring to the actual procurement or he is referring to the system. Because if his reference is the actual procurement, we will be objecting to that, Your Honor. Because the witness has no knowledge with respect to the actual procurement process.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor. I think this court already made a ruling, Your Honor. And Your Honor, I am on cross so I am entitled to ask Mr. Supena any matter relevant to his direct examination.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Winslow, the chair will just note your continuing objection with respect to this line of questioning by the counsel for respondent which the court already allowed if the witness knows. He may so respond if he does not know, if he is not aware of the answer given the limited scope of his knowledge with respect to Phil Jeffs only. You may continue. You may continue, Attorney Robby. Continuing objection of the Honorable Winslow is duly noted and placed into the records.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Sopena, let me repeat my question for a second time.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So this means that every contract awarded to GenCorp insofar as your office is concerned went through the procurement process, if you know.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Again, sir, we are all basing it on the uploaded documents. And if they uploaded it and they created a notice of award based on the system itself, and pag nakakreate po yung award,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I would assume po kasi nag-create po sila ng award notice.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Mr. Supena.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Supena, also in your direct examination, you mentioned that based on the documents you extracted from the PhilGepps database, GenCorp was supposedly awarded 49 contracts?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: 49.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: 49. And these contracts were from, if I'm not mistaken, July? July 2022 to 2025.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May I request your honor that the witness be confronted again with the document. I think you are provided already. May we request the assisting counsel to approach the witness?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think he has it with him. Witness may answer.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Could I refer your honor?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, of course, Mr. Supena.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Sir, and what specific procurement entity?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: For each Mr. Supena for GenCorp, I am just asking a... For you to confirm an approximation of the years when these were supposedly awarded.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Only if you can recall, Mr. Supena.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on the PhilGeps, meron pong na-award noong February 14, 2023. As early as 2023.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Okay.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, Mr. Supena, still on your summary and the documents you were asked to brought last week, you confirmed that out of the 49 contracts,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Only 15 were awarded by the local government of Davao City.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, based on the summary, Your Honor. Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And out of the 49 contracts, you said that 33 were awarded by PhilHealth Region 11, is that correct? Did I get that correctly? Awarded,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: yes po. Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And one contract was awarded... by the Overseas Workers Welfare Administration Region 11, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Awarded to OWA.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes. Awarded by?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Awarded by the procuring entity to OWA po.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes. And Mr. Supena, are you aware that PhilHealth is a national government agency?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Are

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: you also aware that OWA, Overseas Workers Welfare Administration, is also A national government agency.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, sir.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Because

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Rendell P. Sopeña: there are procuring entities registered in the field, sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, Mr. Sopena, PhilHealth and OWA are independent from the local government of Davao City, correct? If you know.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: They are different agencies.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Mr. Sopena. So, just let me get this straight. So, for 34... out of the 49 contracts that you referred to. So on the basis of the documents that you brought last week.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So Davao City played no role in the evaluation or the or approving the award of these contracts to GenCorp.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I have no personal knowledge.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: you, Mr. Witness.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So Mr. Supena, let's go to another point. Mr. Supena, you said that as the division chief of the AGPOD, You are the overall custodian of the PhilGEPs data system?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, the

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Rendell P. Sopeña: repository,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: yes sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And as part of your functions, you issue certifications if requested?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on subpoenas, yes sir.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So Mr. Supena, based on your direct examination, it is clear that your testimony is limited only to identifying and authenticating documents that the prosecution asked you to bring last week, correct?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Honor, please.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Honor, asked

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: and answered by the witness.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: The

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: question actually is misleading, Your Honor. It's not the prosecution which issued the subpoena. It is the Honorable Impeachment Court which ordered the production of the documents which are the official submissions of Phil Jepps, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But as requested by the prosecution counsel.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: I

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: understand, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Mr. Sobeño, let me repeat, okay? So based on your direct examination, it is clear that your testimony is limited to Identifying and authenticating documents that the prosecution asked you to bring last Tuesday.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I just based those requests po sa natanggap kong sabbina, which came from, I think, the clerk.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Okay.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, Mr. Supena, but you confirm your testimony is limited to identifying and authenticating documents that you brought.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on, counsel.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor. So, Mr. Supena, you were not... Personally present at any stage of the procurement process for these contracts.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: It's not part of the mandate of the PhilGips office.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Mr. Witness. Mr. Sopena. So, safe to say you were not part of the pre-bidding conference, Mr. Sopena?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: It's

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Rendell P. Sopeña: not part of the mandate of the PhilGips and the function of the division.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: You

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: were not part of the opening of bids.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please. It has been repeatedly testified to by the witness. that the knowledge is based solely on what appears in the system and he has no knowledge with respect to the actual bidding process, much less part of the bids and awards committee. So, we are entering our objection to the similar line of questions of the defense, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The continuing objection of counsel for the lead prosecutor has been placed on record. Counsel may proceed. Move on to another topic, Counsel.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you, Your Honor. Just a few more questions, Mr. Supena. Mr. Supena, Let's go back to the documents that you brought last week. You did not prepare any of these documents, correct?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: What particular documents, sir?

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: All of the documents. All of the technical and bid documents that you brought, that you extracted from PhilGems.

288
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Asked and answered, Your Honor.

289
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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We submit, Your Honor.

290
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Asked and answered, counsel.

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May we request that the witness be reminded to wait for a while before... He responds to the question of the defense.

292
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Zopena, ilang segundo lamang po. Huwag naman ganun katagal.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes,

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Rendell P. Sopeña: sir. Yes, Your Honor.

295
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Salamat po. Yes, Atty. Robby, please.

296
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes,

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your Honor, just a few more questions. Mr. Zopena, you, let's, still on those documents, you also confirmed that other than certifying the documents, you did not sign any of those bid or technical documents. Correct?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please.

299
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Atty. Luis Ram.

300
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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May we be clarified on signing the bid documents because it was testified to

301
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:10,460
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May we be clarified on the context of the question about signing the documents?

302
01:00:30,060 --> 01:00:30,710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama po ba?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes,

304
01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:32,560
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor. Correct po.

305
01:00:33,060 --> 01:00:38,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lahat po yan, di ba? Whether City of Davao, whether OWA, whether PhilHealth, o kahit ano pang ahensya ng gobyerno.

306
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,920
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor. Lahat po. Uploaded po ng procuring entity.

307
01:00:41,540 --> 01:00:47,520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Uploaded ng procuring entity. Your knowledge is only limited in so far as it is contained in your system.

308
01:00:47,780 --> 01:00:48,520
Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct, Your Honor.

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01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And you had no part in the preparation of any of the documents.

310
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct, Your Honor.

311
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Please proceed, Counsel.

312
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: So, Mr. Supena, your... Your testimony is primarily based on documents prepared by third parties. Is that correct?

313
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Prepared and uploaded by the procuring entities.

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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Supena.

315
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: And finally, Mr. Supena, you cannot say that any of these contracts were awarded irregularly. Is that correct?

316
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:52,350
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Objection, Your Honor. That is beyond the competence of the witness, Your Honor. The witness is not competent in as far as irregularity or regularity of contracts are concerned, Your Honor. As a matter of fact, it has been repeatedly stated that the testimony is limited only to what appears in the field job system as to whether they are irregular or regular. It is beyond the scope of the testimony. It is beyond the knowledge of the witness, Your Honor.

317
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he knows, counsel, because the Chair would also like to know if from their point of view they can see any absence of compliance, whether you call it irregularity or lack of compliance. Chair would also like to know if indeed from his point of view he would see it from where he is seated. Witness may answer if you know.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: The oversight and compliance is not part of the mandate of the PhilGEMS office. We are merely the repository of the procurement data, sir.

319
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your Honor, nothing further to cross.

320
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just to clarify, so hindi niyo po alam kung may mali o palpak o hindi tamang dokumentong

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinumite?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Tama po, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kaninong trabaho po yan kung hindi niyo trabaho?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: I

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Rendell P. Sopeña: believe, sir, those irregularities are mostly being found during the audit. Audit na. Kaya wala

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kayong obligasyon, trabaho, responsibilidad na tingnan yan o sabihin mali to, kulang to, tama to.

327
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So kahit

328
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may nakita ka o may alam ka, wala kang pwede magawa?

329
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Rendell P. Sopeña: We are basing kasi your honor yung mga ina-upload so we have no knowledge po talaga kung ano.

330
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And

331
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: neither do you communicate with the entity uploading na may kulang, may mali?

332
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Rendell P. Sopeña: It's not part po. Hindi rin po namin ginagawa.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay.

334
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you done with the cross, Atty. Robbie?

335
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Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Yes, Your Honor.

336
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any redirect, lead prosecutor?

337
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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: No redirect for the prosecution, Your Honor.

338
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any Senator-Judge who wishes to make interjections with this witness? Anika, may listahan ka?

339
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala.

340
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:47,780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung wala, we will... Yes, Senator-Judge Risa Ontiveros is recognized for her interjections, rather. You have two minutes, ma'am. You may proceed when you're ready.

341
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po at sorry, Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang umaga po, Atty. Sopena.

342
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Good morning. Hindi po ako atty. Your Honor.

343
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Oh, I'm sorry. Mali yung note ko. Mr. Sopena, magandang umaga po.

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01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:36,230
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Mali po ba na gawing kontraktor ng LGU ang isang kumpanya kung saan may interes ang mismong kapatid ng mayor?

345
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Apologies, Your Honor, when it comes to legality po. Medyo I have no personal knowledge po. I'm more inclined po sa PhilJEP system.

346
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright. So kung hindi particular dyan sa paksang iyon, pero mula sa pananaw ng PhilJEPs, may alam po ba kayo or may alam po ba ang PhilJEPs na maaaring nilalabag sa ganyang sitwasyon?

347
01:05:02,260 --> 01:05:08,420
Rendell P. Sopeña: Under the PhilJEPs office, ma'am, we manage and ano kasi yung system itself po mismo eh.

348
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: You

349
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:09,240
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: manage

350
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:09,640
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: what, sorry

351
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:09,840
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: sir?

352
01:05:09,900 --> 01:05:23,940
Rendell P. Sopeña: The PhilJEP system itself po. So we are heavily dependent kung ano po yung data na ini-input po ng mga procuring entity. So with the legality, PhilJEP's office po has no talagang knowledge po.

353
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So dun sa mga data na ini-input sa PhilJEP system at kung saan? Necessarily, heavily dependent ang PhilGEPs. Wala po kayong inoobserbahang mga batas na may kinalaman dun sa pag-input ng mga data sa system ninyo?

354
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Rendell P. Sopeña: For the PhilGEPs office, ma'am, we are merely, parang ini-implement lang namin yung mga procurement law na lumalabas.

355
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. So, kaugnay ng procurement law, in relation to the,

356
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Sorry ma'am.

357
01:05:58,540 --> 01:06:00,210
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Yes, in relation to the

358
01:06:00,210 --> 01:06:01,470
Rendell P. Sopeña: PhilGEPs system po,

359
01:06:01,490 --> 01:06:24,180
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: yung ALTI po. So in relation to the PhilGEP system, in relation to the procurement law, meron bang nakikita ang PhilGEPs na maaaring nilalabag sa sitwasyon na tinanong ko sa inyo na kapamilya o kamag-anak, kapatid ng mayor, yung contractor ng LGU?

360
01:06:24,890 --> 01:06:32,730
Rendell P. Sopeña: For the field job system side, we have talaga po no personal knowledge pagdating po sa ganyan. Apologies po, Your Honor.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: That's alright, Mr. Sopena.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Sa mga kontrata ng Davao City LGU na inaward sa GenCorp, ilan po ang hindi dumaan sa public bidding?

363
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on my, if I remember it right, 15 po minus 11 po ang hindi dumaan sa public bidding.

364
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: 11. Sa 11 na alam niyo, magkano yung katumbas na halaga ng mga kontratang inaward sa GenCorp na hindi dumaan sa public bidding?

365
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Can

366
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Rendell P. Sopeña: I check?

367
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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Mr.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Presiding Officer, if the witness may check his...

369
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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You

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01:07:15,590 --> 01:07:17,370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may check your table and summary or summary.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer.

372
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Rendell P. Sopeña: Just a rough estimate, Your Honor. Kasi ang total po ni Davao is 34,216,000. Of this po yung apat po is yung public bidding. So may 5 million, 6 million, 9 million. Rough estimate po mga nasa 5-11.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Sorry? So 34 million ang katumbas?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Ang total po.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Nung

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: 11?

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01:08:00,340 --> 01:08:03,460
Rendell P. Sopeña: Nung 15 po. Kasama po yung apat na public bidding.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: And yung 11 po is through negotiated small value procurement po.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay. So yung mga in award through negotiated small value bidding?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Value posting.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Magkano yung halagang iyon ng mga hindi dumaan sa public bidding?

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Rendell P. Sopeña: So meron po rito na wala lang po ang total pero meron po rito yung 501,600 pesos, 414,000, 249,000, 49,800 pesos, 498,000, 805,500 pesos, 381,500,000. 508,000, 254,000, and 554,000 po your honor. So roughly mga nasa 8 million or 7 million siguro po ito.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So roughly 7 to 8 million yung halaga ng mga hindi dumaan sa public bidding na inaward ng Davao City LGU sa GENCORP.

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Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on estimate, yes.

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Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Yes, based on the estimate. So a range of 7 to 8 million. So, salamat po, Mr. Subpeña. That's all for now. Thank you,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Andiveros. Senator-Judge Rafi Tulfo is recognized. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. And you have two minutes.

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Mr. Presiding Officer, hindi ko alam kung tatanong ko sa prosecution o sa witness. Anyway, anybody can answer from the prosecution or the witness. Kasi, ang tanong ko...

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Allowed ba ang GenCorp na mag-participate sa public bidding sa Davao, knowing na si VP Sara ay isa sa mga may-ari ng GenCorp, and then yung Davao is balwarte niya? And so wala bang conflict of interest doon?

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Hindi ba nafa-flag down 'yon agad ng GenCorp na, 'Teka muna, may conflict of interest ata rito'?

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Would you like to answer that or the

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: prosecution?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: May I respond,

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Honor?

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Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, that particular scenario If the name of VP Sara is, I mean, if there are shall and already, which the Respondent Vice President herself acknowledged, admitted, that she is part of this corporation, then GenCorp should not be participating in the bidding of City of Davao, which is headed by no less than the brother of the Respondent Vice President. While the procurement lawyer honor is not very much explicit on this, it is my humble submission that this is the conflict of interest contemplated under Article 7, Section 13 of the Constitution.

396
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:54,200
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Thank you. Yun nga ang pinagtataka ko habang pinagdadabatihan natin ngayon. Inabot na tayo ng isang oras whether, sabi niya ng defense, the contracts were not awarded irregularly. Yun ang tanong niya sa witness. At sinabi pa ni Sen. Cheese, Sen. Officer, may mali ba o palpak sa contract? Para sa akin, the fact remains na the Vice President is part owner of GenCorp. And under Article 7 and Section 13, the Vice President should not own or participate in any business company for that matter. Yun na po. It's the Presiding Officer. Thank you po.

397
01:11:55,020 --> 01:12:27,090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Rafi Tulfo. Also for the record, Chair would like to state what the Chair stated earlier. While indeed there is a declaration, an admission in the Salon of the Vice President that she is a shareholder, stockholder of GenCorp, The witness presented from the SEC stated that the Vice President is not a shareholder or stockholder based on the records submitted by GenCorp to the Securities and Exchange Commission. So that is one difference that still has to be reconciled at some point.

398
01:12:28,650 --> 01:12:38,110
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Senate President is recognized for his interjection. Thereafter, Senator Aimee. Thereafter, Senator Judge Joel Villanueva. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready.

399
01:12:38,590 --> 01:12:41,620
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Good morning, Mr. Speña.

400
01:12:41,620 --> 01:12:42,890
Rendell P. Sopeña: Good morning, Your Honor.

401
01:12:42,890 --> 01:12:48,870
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sa PhilGEPS ba nakikita niyo yung resulta ng bidding?

402
01:12:51,790 --> 01:12:58,330
Rendell P. Sopeña: Not unless na-upload po. Doon po talaga kami nagre-refer. Dependent po sa procuring entity.

403
01:12:58,790 --> 01:13:18,220
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Like in this case, itong pinag-uusapan natin, GenCorp, narinig ko kanina sa inyo merong mga bidding, meron small... Small Value Procurement. Doon sa bidding ba, nakita nyo kung merong ilan ang nag-participate na bids? Magkano yung kanilang mga bidding price?

404
01:13:18,860 --> 01:13:23,900
Rendell P. Sopeña: The PhilGEPS system does not reflect po doon. Yung mode of modality lang po yung nakikita.

405
01:13:23,900 --> 01:13:29,140
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So nakita nyo lang bidding pero hindi nyo nakita kung ilan ang nag-participate sa bidding?

406
01:13:29,140 --> 01:13:29,750
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor.

407
01:13:29,750 --> 01:13:30,100
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay.

408
01:13:31,780 --> 01:13:49,220
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pagdating doon sa Precio. Like for example, in this case nga, GenCorp, at nakita ko last week, mga pagkain yung kanilang binili. Nakikita niyo ba kung magkano yung presyo nung kanilang biniling pagkain?

409
01:13:50,940 --> 01:14:03,760
Rendell P. Sopeña: The system could only reflect po kung ano yung pinasok ng procuring entity such as yung ABC po, yung approved budget of contract and yung contract awarded amount po.

410
01:14:04,010 --> 01:14:05,730
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Correct. So nakikita nyo yung presyo?

411
01:14:06,710 --> 01:14:08,450
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yun lang pong dalawang amount na

412
01:14:08,450 --> 01:14:08,810
Rendell P. Sopeña: yun, Your Honor.

413
01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:10,490
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. Yung ABC tsaka yung approved contract.

414
01:14:10,490 --> 01:14:11,220
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor.

415
01:14:11,220 --> 01:14:13,820
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yung ABC tsaka yung panalong presyo.

416
01:14:13,820 --> 01:14:14,250
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes,

417
01:14:14,270 --> 01:14:14,640
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor.

418
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:14,890
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Diba?

419
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:25,710
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Doon sa panalong presyo, tinitignan nyo ba kung ito ay tamang presyo or within the range ng mga binibili nila?

420
01:14:26,930 --> 01:14:29,210
Rendell P. Sopeña: Not part na po ng mandate na ginagawa.

421
01:14:29,210 --> 01:14:30,150
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Hindi nyo na nakikita

422
01:14:30,150 --> 01:14:55,640
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: yun. Okay. And then binabasa ko yung section 47 ng RA 9184 tsaka section 81 ng RA 12009. Nakasulat dito mayroong sworn affidavit kung may conflict of interest o hindi. Dapat mag-submit yung bidder at sabihin niya wala akong conflict of interest. Yan ba ay nakikita rin ng field JEPs?

423
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,350
Rendell P. Sopeña: Hindi po,

424
01:14:57,450 --> 01:14:57,950
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor.

425
01:14:58,350 --> 01:15:05,650
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So hindi nyo na nakikita kung yung compliance sa mga batas ay nako-comply?

426
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:07,720
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor.

427
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:29,400
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. And then, pakiulit nga ulit kasi hindi na-flash to last week, pero ilan ang contract out of the 35.8 million, ilan doon ang... Bided, and ilan doon ang negotiated?

428
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:31,560
Rendell P. Sopeña: There are 49 contracts.

429
01:15:32,540 --> 01:15:38,810
Rendell P. Sopeña: Out of the 49 po, for public bidding po. The rest po, puro small value procurement na po.

430
01:15:38,810 --> 01:15:39,020
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: For

431
01:15:39,020 --> 01:15:43,860
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: public bidding. And then the rest are small value.

432
01:15:43,860 --> 01:15:43,920
Rendell P. Sopeña: Small

433
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:45,620
Rendell P. Sopeña: value for procurement na, Your Honor.

434
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:51,000
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Dito sa small value procurement, tinitignan niyo ba yung presyo? Kung tama o hindi?

435
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,480
Rendell P. Sopeña: Hindi na rin po part ng function ng...

436
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:59,120
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kasi small value, di ba, negotiated yan eh? Diba ang diretsyon negotiation na yan? Tama?

437
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,340
Rendell P. Sopeña: Not really particularly knowledgeable with that sir.

438
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:12,800
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero nakikita ba yung ina-upload nila sa small value procurement, nakikita yung presyo doon ng mga produkto?

439
01:16:14,470 --> 01:16:18,950
Rendell P. Sopeña: Once uploaded, sa ina-upload po mga dokumento, nakikita

440
01:16:18,950 --> 01:16:23,320
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: naman po doon. Nakikita nyo na. At tinitignan nyo ba kung ito ay mataas o mababa?

441
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,190
Rendell P. Sopeña: Apart po sa EGP, sir, hindi naman

442
01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:29,390
Rendell P. Sopeña: po kami nagtitingin ng mga dokumento talaga. We are merely the repository

443
01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:31,550
Rendell P. Sopeña: ng mga documents po, Your Honor.

444
01:16:31,850 --> 01:16:35,280
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alright, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you, Mr. Sopena.

445
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:36,050
Rendell P. Sopeña: Thank

446
01:16:36,050 --> 01:16:37,170
Rendell P. Sopeña: you, Your Honor.

447
01:16:37,170 --> 01:16:42,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Next would be Senator-Judge Aimee Marcos. You are recognized, ma'am. You may proceed. When you're ready, you have two minutes.

448
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:47,440
Sen. Imee Marcos: Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Sopena.

449
01:16:48,980 --> 01:17:05,290
Sen. Imee Marcos: Tatanong lang po. Phil Jepps does not, merely on the notice of award, establish which shareholder, which director, which officer personally negotiated or participated in the transaction. Wala yun sa dokumento ninyo.

450
01:17:05,430 --> 01:17:06,890
Rendell P. Sopeña: Wala po. I

451
01:17:06,890 --> 01:17:23,190
Sen. Imee Marcos: see. So yung records din ninyo, hindi rin nagsasabi kung si Vice President Sara ay officer, director, shareholder, or beneficial owner ng GenCorp? Doon sa exact date ng kada transaksyon. Tama?

452
01:17:23,370 --> 01:17:25,050
Rendell P. Sopeña: Hindi po namin nakikita, Your Honor.

453
01:17:25,350 --> 01:17:38,310
Sen. Imee Marcos: At kinakailangan siguro yung corporate records nito para malaman doon sa period na nakasaad dahil sa inyo hindi naman ito pinapakita. Tama po ba?

454
01:17:38,310 --> 01:17:38,670
Rendell P. Sopeña: You

455
01:17:38,670 --> 01:17:39,430
Rendell P. Sopeña: are correct, Your Honor.

456
01:17:39,670 --> 01:17:54,910
Sen. Imee Marcos: Okay. And wala kayong personal knowledge katulad ng sinabi mo kanina na Si VP Sara nag-participate sa preparasyon o submission ng mga bids ng GenCorp, diba?

457
01:17:55,330 --> 01:17:57,050
Rendell P. Sopeña: Tama. No personal knowledge po, Your Honor.

458
01:17:57,250 --> 01:18:05,510
Sen. Imee Marcos: Okay. So, neither do you have any personal knowledge kung siya yung nag-negotiate ng mga kontrata at bidding nito? Tama po ba?

459
01:18:05,690 --> 01:18:06,590
Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, Your Honor.

460
01:18:06,830 --> 01:18:24,440
Sen. Imee Marcos: Okay. So, dun sa award document at notice of award, lahat ng papeles na dumaan sa inyo, Hindi mo masasabi kung si VP Sara Duterte ay tumanggap ng anumang bahagi ng contract price.

461
01:18:24,900 --> 01:18:26,500
Rendell P. Sopeña: No personal knowledge po.

462
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,050
Sen. Imee Marcos: Thank you very much, Mr. Sopena.

463
01:18:29,050 --> 01:18:29,800
Rendell P. Sopeña: Thank you, Your Honor.

464
01:18:30,420 --> 01:18:36,680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Before calling on Senator Joel Villanueva, may

465
01:18:37,190 --> 01:18:47,130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I ask Congressman Defensor, Congressman Barber, to kindly nudge Kong Benny a bit? It seems he's tired.

466
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:56,240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He may want to rest somewhere but at least not right behind the witness.

467
01:18:57,850 --> 01:19:00,230
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, I think he's praying for us.

468
01:19:01,870 --> 01:19:06,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I doubt that. He's

469
01:19:06,060 --> 01:19:07,760
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: praying for the prosecution, Your Honor.

470
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:19,900
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge, Joel Villanueva is recognized. You have two minutes. It's been a long day, I guess, because you just approved the budget last week. You may proceed when you're ready.

471
01:19:20,440 --> 01:19:23,300
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. Senate President.

472
01:19:26,210 --> 01:19:40,350
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Mr. Witness, kayo na po, binanggit niyo, kahit na sa being lowest calculated and responsive bid or offer, hindi niyo po nakikita kung may competition ito, yung presyo, kung ilan niyong nagbibid. Tama po.

473
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:41,550
Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po, Your Honor.

474
01:19:42,150 --> 01:19:50,500
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So, pwede niyo po bang sabihin sa amin, ilang beses po naging sole responsive bidder? O sole submitted quotation ang GenCorp?

475
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:58,380
Rendell P. Sopeña: I have no record po or the full list po kung ilang beses po siyang nagiging.

476
01:19:58,780 --> 01:20:00,640
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So wala po kayong record doon?

477
01:20:02,210 --> 01:20:19,410
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Sa dami po ng awards, wala po kayong nakikita na ang PhilGEPS po paulit-ulit na GenCorp ang napipili ng parehong procuring entity? Office or end user? Para sa magkakatulad na produkto?

478
01:20:20,430 --> 01:20:33,150
Rendell P. Sopeña: Naka-indicate po ito sa mga ina-upload na documents ng procuring entity. Pero as to the electronic data itself, sir, wala po. Kaya pag nagda-download kami, hindi po namin siya nakikita yung ganun pong information.

479
01:20:34,210 --> 01:20:41,430
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So, pero Marlin, you would agree with me na repeated awards are not automatically unlawful?

480
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:46,520
Rendell P. Sopeña: When it comes to legality, I am not really... Pero

481
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:57,140
Sen. Joel Villanueva: yung frequency, product similarity, timing, competition are relevant to transparency and possible preferential patterns. In

482
01:20:57,140 --> 01:20:58,580
Rendell P. Sopeña: my personal opinion, yes po.

483
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:09,920
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So may red flags po ba ang PhilGEPS para makita na unusually repetitive awards o repository lang talaga po kayo?

484
01:21:11,070 --> 01:21:30,850
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor, actually we are currently developing those features bago pong dinidevelop namin na procuring system. So the current procuring system wala pa po. However, yung dinidevelop po namin ngayon kasama na po yung mga ganyang features, Your Honor.

485
01:21:31,240 --> 01:22:06,820
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So gusto ko lang maintindihan, kung hindi po nagbe-verify ang PhilGEPS at wala rin pong naisasagawa na post-qualification or independent validation of ownership, beneficial ownership, at relationship declarations ng GenCorp, paano po nakakatiyak ang gobyerno na kumpleto, tama, at tunay po ang mga dokumentong isinusumite at walang direct or indirect personal... Familiar or financial or business relationship sa head of procuring entity ang sino mang opisyal o sangkot sa procurement?

486
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:26,160
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor, siguro po. Yung upon approval po ng NGPA 12009, PSDBM po approved po ng budget for recreation of a new procurement system which align po sa 12009 which kasama po rito yung

487
01:22:27,690 --> 01:23:20,900
Rendell P. Sopeña: Detection po ng mga collusion and red tagging. And yung system po itself ngayon, the modernized PhilGepps, through the open data portal po, available po yung mga information publicly. And it can be viewed po ng kahit sino sa website po ng PhilGepps, included sa procurement dashboard. na mada-download po ng mga public yung aggregated data. Tapos, nandun din po sa procurement dashboard included and ine-enhance po namin yung beneficial owner's table. Meron po nung information for BO which kasama po sa mandate ng field job system under the 12009 and the open data portal po.

488
01:23:22,470 --> 01:23:26,930
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yung mga enhancement po for the upcoming na bagong procurement system.

489
01:23:27,950 --> 01:23:29,630
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ngunit sa ngayon,

490
01:23:29,630 --> 01:23:31,150
Rendell P. Sopeña: tama

491
01:23:31,150 --> 01:23:47,450
Sen. Joel Villanueva: po bang sabihin sir na yung procurement records ay nagpapakita lamang ng mga deklarasyong isinusumite ng bidder, ngunit hindi po ito nagpapatunay na tama o kompleto ang mga deklarasyong ito?

492
01:23:54,380 --> 01:24:06,200
Rendell P. Sopeña: Mga government agencies na ay gagamitin na po yung bagong itong isang modernized system natin, yung e-bidding po. So lahat po ng procurement would be through electronic na po.

493
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:08,200
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Sa darating na sistema.

494
01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:10,020
Rendell P. Sopeña: Actually, we have po eh.

495
01:24:11,220 --> 01:24:13,180
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Kasi wala akong verification eh.

496
01:24:13,500 --> 01:24:51,880
Rendell P. Sopeña: We have the modernized PhilGEPS actually, sir. Yung 49 awarded contracts po kasi... were created and posted under the PhilGEPS 1.5. We are also maintaining the modernized PhilGEPS na ginagamit din po ng iba na nandun po yung e-bidding process. Ang e-bidding po, this will capture the end-to-end activity ng government agencies starting from the annual procurement plan up to the contract management. Some of the government agencies are utilizing it. Kagaya po ng Office of the President, ginagamit po nila yung e-bidding. Sir,

497
01:24:52,300 --> 01:25:06,320
Sen. Joel Villanueva: but with all due respect, but on this case, wala akong verification. Ang hirap po sabihin sa publiko na may maaasahan po kami na natukoy o maiwasan po yung anumang direct or indirect conflict of interest.

498
01:25:06,700 --> 01:25:08,800
Rendell P. Sopeña: With this case, I agree.

499
01:25:08,900 --> 01:25:09,260
Sen. Joel Villanueva: That's so

500
01:25:09,260 --> 01:25:45,730
Sen. Joel Villanueva: unfortunate. Sir, last question ko na lang po. Susugan ko yung tinanong niya SP Win kanina. Doon po sa mga... Purchase request o award na binanggit niyo po yung mga small value awards dun sa GenCorp. May makikita po ba kayo dun na hinate sa magkakahiwalay na amounts o pag pinagsama nila ay maaaring lumampas doon sa applicable threshold yung ginawa po nila? May makikita po ba kayong ganun?

501
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:59,290
Rendell P. Sopeña: Meron po sa record dyan ang isang bid notice. May iba't ibang line item. However, iba-iba po yung category niya, Your Honor.

502
01:25:59,610 --> 01:26:16,590
Sen. Joel Villanueva: I-clarify ko lang po yung question. Doon sa 15 na binanggit niyo po na small value procurements, ilan po yung magkakapareho o magkakalapit ang product description, end user, delivery period, at procurement date?

503
01:26:23,050 --> 01:26:23,690
Rendell P. Sopeña: For

504
01:26:27,170 --> 01:26:37,410
Rendell P. Sopeña: the title itself po, Your Honor, same lang na catering services, food and catering services. Pero yung publish and award date naman po is iba-iba po.

505
01:26:37,610 --> 01:26:53,120
Sen. Joel Villanueva: And again, wala kayo nakikita dyan na hinate o magkakahiwalay yung amounts para lamang po lumampas dun sa... para hindi po... Masabi na lumampas dun sa applicable threshold. Just to see if there are...

506
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:54,660
Rendell P. Sopeña: Based on the records ko lang. Wala naman po Your Honor

507
01:26:54,660 --> 01:27:10,990
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Last na lang po. May ibidensya po ba sa PhilGeps na ang pagkakahati ay ginagawa upang umiwas po sa competitive bidding? Or wala po kayong sapat na record para sabihin po yun?

508
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:20,020
Rendell P. Sopeña: The system po is designed so I think po... Hindi po inaalaw ng system pag may mga splitting na gano'n.

509
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:22,020
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So makikita niyo po?

510
01:27:22,970 --> 01:27:25,290
Rendell P. Sopeña: Embedded sa system, hindi po aalaw pag gano'n.

511
01:27:25,330 --> 01:27:31,020
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Hindi iaalaw pagka ginawa po nila yun para lang umiwas dun po sa competitive bidding.

512
01:27:31,020 --> 01:27:31,850
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, Your Honor.

513
01:27:31,850 --> 01:27:33,890
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Salamat po for that clarification. Thank you.

514
01:27:34,130 --> 01:27:38,090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge, Ervin Tulfo is recognized. You may proceed, sir, when you're ready. You have two minutes.

515
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:58,700
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Gino'ng witness, nung nangyayari po itong Itong mga kontrata na ito. Wala ko kayo nakikitang problema? Kaya lumulusot po ito?

516
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:05,920
Rendell P. Sopeña: During the process po ng bidding, hindi po kami visible or personally knowledgeable po. Kailan

517
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:08,680
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: nyo lang nalaman na may problema? Pinatawag na kayo sa Congress?

518
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:13,540
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, when we received po yung sabina.

519
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,540
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So, ibig sabihin kahit may glaring na...

520
01:28:16,540 --> 01:28:37,590
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Nangyayari na hindi nasusunod ayon sa batas ang isang bidding, et cetera. Okay lang, lumulusot lang, lumulusot? Unless kung kayo ay... wala ba kayong kapangyarihan? Teka muna, questionin, teka muna, may problema ito, boss. Or tell your supervisor na may problema ho ito, boss. Ano ba ang nangyayari dito? Anong gagawin natin?

521
01:28:37,590 --> 01:28:43,790
Rendell P. Sopeña: Your Honor, for our office po, kasi we are merely the repository of the data. So sa ongoing

522
01:28:43,790 --> 01:28:46,870
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: ng kontrata, wala kayong alam? Tama

523
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:47,330
Rendell P. Sopeña: po, Your Honor.

524
01:28:47,570 --> 01:28:56,130
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So ngayon na lang ninyo nalaman dahil may nagtanong na po, nagtanong na po ang House of Representatives, ang Committee on Justice, dalit sa impeachment?

525
01:28:57,330 --> 01:28:58,690
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yes, po, Your Honor.

526
01:28:58,930 --> 01:29:08,130
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So ibig sabihin, Sir, meron ba kayang mga nangyayaring ikang anomalya na hindi nyo lang alam kasi repository lang kayo?

527
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:14,850
Rendell P. Sopeña: For the oversight function po, it's not... The mandate po of the PhilGips, Your Honor.

528
01:29:14,850 --> 01:29:38,450
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay. Pero kayo ngayon, sir, puwede niyo namang reviewhin yung mga nakaraan na mga, ika nga, mga kontrata, projects, hindi lang po itong tungkol sa Davao but other government projects. Di ba wala kayong ganoong mandato na silipin, tingnan, baka napakadami na o halos lahat ng ating mga proyekto ay may problema?

529
01:29:38,450 --> 01:29:55,740
Rendell P. Sopeña: Hindi po parte ng mandato pero kadalasan po kasi sa division namin we receive various requests po talaga when it comes to procurement data. Nire-request po ng mga iba't ibang agencies na pinaprovide po namin sa kanila.

530
01:29:55,900 --> 01:29:59,120
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So ngayon po wala kayong planong maybe reviewin man lang?

531
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:23,900
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sir, hindi po ninyo mandato. Kasi may mga incidents po tayo, sir, di po ba, na maraming ikang graft and corruption cases. Case in point, yung flood control po na yan. Na because hindi po ninyo, dahil hindi ninyo mandato, kaya hindi po ninyo na-check. Bakit kaya po magkusa na lang yung inyong departamento mismo? Dahil bagamat repository kayo, pwede nyo silipin.

532
01:30:24,180 --> 01:30:35,500
Rendell P. Sopeña: May, Your Honor, meron pong, I think na, proper agency na could address those. What I'm

533
01:30:35,500 --> 01:30:53,130
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: pointing at is kayo mismo magkusa lang. Hindi po pwede dahil wala sa mandato ninyo to check yung mga hawak ninyong mga files. Basta pag dumating sa inyo, ilalagay nyo lang niya sa isang gilid. Ipa-file na lang ninyo hanggat sa walang humingi.

534
01:30:54,490 --> 01:31:02,020
Rendell P. Sopeña: It's electronically filed po. Nasa database lang po siya. Hindi naman po siya yung hard copy talaga, Your Honor.

535
01:31:02,260 --> 01:31:06,020
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yeah, pero you cannot? You cannot go through? I mean, silipin man lang?

536
01:31:06,740 --> 01:31:13,220
Rendell P. Sopeña: Not part of the division's function po kasi we have other po na duties that we are also fulfilling.

537
01:31:14,510 --> 01:31:17,670
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Witness, Presiding Officer. Maraming salamat po.

538
01:31:17,670 --> 01:31:24,830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Irwin. Senator-Judge Lacson to avail of his first round. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready.

539
01:31:25,490 --> 01:31:26,070
Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you.

540
01:31:27,620 --> 01:31:35,750
Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: I'm not asking any question, Mr. Presiding Officer, but this is a very short manifestation based on my observation.

541
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:36,300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may

542
01:31:36,300 --> 01:31:36,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proceed, sir.

543
01:31:36,940 --> 01:32:59,350
Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: The way probably and probably some of the non-lawyers among the senator-judges, particularly my seatmate, Senator Lapid, understand the questions posited by the Defense Council is that the objective of the cross was to create an iota of doubt, no matter how technical and small, to create the impression that the threshold of establishing guilt is beyond reasonable doubt, which I believe is not the case in this impeachment trial, Mr. Presiding Officer. Hindi po ito, let me clarify and emphasize na hindi po ito prejudgment. Ang hangat ko lang po is baka pwede mag-adjust kayo ng inyong defense strategy. Kasi I can speak for myself, pagdating sa masyadong technical at yung impresyo na nagsisilip lang ng napakalit na butas, mukhang hindi po nagre-register. So marami na rin ko yung naipunto in the course of the trial na magaganda. Pero pag nag-resort tayo sa yung we're trying to observe, kasi we were talking between kami dalawa. Yan ang observation namin. Parang hindi masyadong re-register. Parang napakalilit na butas na masyadong technical, medyo hindi po tumatalab. Maraming salamat po.

544
01:32:59,990 --> 01:33:09,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted, Senator Lacson. Thank you very much. Finally, Senator Judge Rafi Tulfo for his interjection.

545
01:33:10,700 --> 01:33:12,780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

546
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:37,760
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Mr. Witness, merong 15 contracts ang GenCorp. Ano na sa record? Yes. nasa record ng PhilGEPS para sa mga small value procurements. Now, nabanggit ng 15, magkano yung per contract dun sa 15 ang value?

547
01:33:38,100 --> 01:33:38,600
Rendell P. Sopeña: Per

548
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:43,420
Rendell P. Sopeña: contract, I'm not sure, Honor.

549
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:44,200
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: That is correct.

550
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:45,330
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Each?

551
01:33:45,330 --> 01:34:13,740
Rendell P. Sopeña: Each. So, meron pong 5,143,500 pesos and meron pong 6,277,500 pesos. Meron din po rito na 9,800,000, 8,400,000, and yung meron po rito 500,000, 500, 1,600 pesos, 400,414 pesos.

552
01:34:14,180 --> 01:34:18,260
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay, that's enough. So, lampas sa 2,000,000?

553
01:34:18,820 --> 01:34:21,580
Rendell P. Sopeña: Yung apat po na nauna, lagpas po.

554
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:33,750
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kasi under Republic Act No. 12009 o New Government Procurement Act, Amount involved shall not exceed 2 million. So may binagat ka 4 million. Ano po ang iba?

555
01:34:34,250 --> 01:34:38,650
Rendell P. Sopeña: Correct po. Those are conducted through public bidding.

556
01:34:39,010 --> 01:34:40,110
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So sumobra-sobra pa?

557
01:34:40,350 --> 01:34:47,180
Rendell P. Sopeña: Pag public bidding po, if I remember it correct, above 2 million is allowed po.

558
01:34:47,990 --> 01:34:50,730
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Ah, that is public bidding. Hindi ba yan sa small value procurement?

559
01:34:51,010 --> 01:34:52,750
Rendell P. Sopeña: Hindi po. Ang small value po, your honor.

560
01:34:52,750 --> 01:34:53,050
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay,

561
01:34:53,090 --> 01:34:54,350
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: yung tinatanong kayo sa small value.

562
01:34:54,350 --> 01:35:06,080
Rendell P. Sopeña: Ah, yung small value po, yung 500,000. 500, 1,600 pesos, 414,000. Wala namang pong lumagpas ng 2 million po sa 11 na small value.

563
01:35:06,260 --> 01:35:51,000
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Nalito ko sa tanong ko. It's okay. Now, sabi ni Presiding Officer, I think kung pwede, we have to resolve this right here right now, kung pwede. Kasi sa SAL-N ni VP Sara, which is a sworn document, she reiterated in that SAL-N, na she's part owner of GenCorp. On the other hand, sa SEC, wala siyang record na nagmamayari. So, sinong paniniwalaan natin dito? Sino nagsisinungaling? Or is it because yung SEC ay nagkaroon ng oversight? Or si VP Sara, she was being honest, kaya nilagay niya talagang she owns it? So, anong susundin natin dito, Mr. Presiding Officer?

564
01:35:52,650 --> 01:35:53,250
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Sir?

565
01:35:54,090 --> 01:35:54,170
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Psst!

566
01:35:56,900 --> 01:35:58,560
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Tulog ka na. Joke.

567
01:35:59,700 --> 01:36:03,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dilat yung mata ko. I'm sorry. Yes, Senator-Judge Raffi.

568
01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:04,740
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Kasi sabi ko

569
01:36:04,740 --> 01:36:13,390
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: kanina, to repeat my question, sasali ni BP Sara, which is a sworn document, nakalagay doon na part-owner siya ng

570
01:36:13,390 --> 01:36:23,410
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: GenCorp. Kasi sabi mo, wala sa SEC. And paulit-ulit natin napakinggan yan, sino paniniwalaan natin ngayon? Anong pagbabasehan natin ang ating paniniwala?

571
01:36:23,410 --> 01:36:34,300
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: 'Yun bang sa sinumpang salaysay ni VP Sara sa SALN niya na she's part owner of GenCorp, o 'yung sa SEC wala siyang pangalan doon?

572
01:36:34,300 --> 01:36:34,940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That

573
01:36:34,940 --> 01:37:06,030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is up for the parties to prove and or disprove at the proper time, Your Honor. The prosecution presented two witnesses that made conflicting claims. I expect them to clarify this matter before they rest their case and when the time for the defense, the respondent rather. will present their evidence in chief. I expect them to address this issue as well. Paumanhin, hindi pa natin kayang sagutin ng deretso yan at hindi ko pa rin kayang sagutin ng deretso. Magdedepende yan sa ebidensya ipapresentan ng mga kabilang panig sa akmang panahon.

574
01:37:06,350 --> 01:37:08,150
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

575
01:37:09,690 --> 01:37:17,350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No other Senator-Judge registered to make interjections. Chair will now excuse Mr. Yes, Honorable Luistro.

576
01:37:17,530 --> 01:37:19,930
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Very quick manifestation only. In relation

577
01:37:19,930 --> 01:37:20,940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to what, counsel?

578
01:37:20,940 --> 01:37:21,430
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: This

579
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:25,210
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: is just to correct. The transcript of records, Your Honor.

580
01:37:25,210 --> 01:37:25,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please,

581
01:37:25,780 --> 01:37:25,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel.

582
01:37:26,180 --> 01:38:14,950
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Earlier, I said that the procurement law does not explicitly provide about conflict of interest. I stand corrected, Your Honor. As a matter of fact, the Honorable Senate President, Sherwin Gatchalian, is very much correct when he said that there must be disclosure of relationship of the merchant to any of the officials of the procuring entity, Your Honor. And I totally agree with the Honorable Senator Rafi Tulfo when he made mention, when he implied the three violations, Your Honor. Owning business, operating business, and conflict of interest, Your Honor. In fact, ito ho kung sa larong tong-it, three hits po ito. That is all, Your Honor.

583
01:38:15,150 --> 01:38:21,380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair will exclude that last part. From the comment of the lead prosecutor.

584
01:38:21,380 --> 01:38:21,850
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We submit,

585
01:38:21,970 --> 01:38:22,975
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor.

586
01:38:22,975 --> 01:38:24,480
Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: Your Honor.

587
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:25,420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Ravi.

588
01:38:25,620 --> 01:38:39,460
Atty. Roberto N. Batungbacal: We just want to put on record or remind the prosecution we defer to the ruling of this impeachment court not to make conclusions of law or conclusions of fact or to supplement the testimony of the witness, Your Honor.

589
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:42,160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The ruling was already made by the Chair.

590
01:38:44,270 --> 01:38:57,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Supena, tapos na po ang inyong pagtestigo. Maraming salamat po sa inyong oras at panahon at salamat po sa pagsagot sa mga katanungan na magkabilang partido, gayon din, ng mga miyembro ng hukumang ito. Maraming salamat po. Your excuse, sir.

591
01:38:57,810 --> 01:38:58,530
Rendell P. Sopeña: Thank you, Your Honors.

592
01:39:00,340 --> 01:39:12,760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before we call on the next witness, whom you can situate already, the OSA, the Clerk of Court is directed to situate, Mr., rather, Police Major Sangalang.

593
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:16,360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly situate him to the witness stand.

594
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:21,040
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please, we are yielding to the Head Prosecutor, the Honorable Ridon.

595
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:38,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While you are doing that and while we are situating, Police Major Sangalang, Chair would like to place on record that we are in receipt of a letter from Mayor Sebastian Duterte of the City of Davao on even date, dated today.

596
01:39:39,650 --> 01:40:28,660
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm requesting that, among others, That he be given time as he requires substantial time to gather, organize, authenticate, and reproduce the subpoena documents and asks that he be allowed to attend instead of today, tomorrow, and on Wednesday, for him to be allowed to attend on September 29 and 30, that is tomorrow and Wednesday, which is already covered by the subpoena issued to him. The Presiding Officer grants the request of Mayor Duterte to appear Tomorrow and Wednesday, which again is covered by the subpoena issued already, so there is no need to issue another subpoena. So I presume, Honorable Ridon, after Police Major Sangalang, we will be presenting tomorrow, Mayor Sebastian Duterte.

597
01:40:29,020 --> 01:40:29,690
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: That is

598
01:40:29,690 --> 01:40:30,590
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: correct, Your Honor.

599
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:32,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly turn on the mic of Honorable Ridon.

600
01:40:33,170 --> 01:40:35,010
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: That is correct, Your

601
01:40:35,010 --> 01:40:35,620
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Honor.

602
01:40:35,620 --> 01:40:41,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, with respect to the other requests for subpoena, we will act on that before we adjourn today.

603
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:54,600
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Bago po isalang si Police Major Sangalang, we wanted to reiterate si Atty. Gary Samonte, hindi na po isasalang, yung pong PhilHealth witness.

604
01:40:55,160 --> 01:41:11,150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Share hereby recalls the subpoena issued to Mr., what's his name again? Atty. Samonte. Mr. Samonte, as manifested and moved by the Council for the Panel of Prosecutors. So ordered.

605
01:41:13,610 --> 01:41:25,780
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Your Honor, please. Bago po isalang si Mr. Sangalang, maybe we can break for lunch already so that the direct testimony can be continuous instead of breaking for lunch later.

606
01:41:40,510 --> 01:41:42,550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo.

607
01:41:42,930 --> 01:42:08,030
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yes, Mr. Presiding Officer. Matanong ko lamang po at saka sa ating prosecution. Ano ang kinalaman nga pala ng Major Sangalang sa issue na ito? Marami po kasi kami nagtatanong ano ba kasama rin po ba ito sa unexplained wealth, hidden wealth ng ating vicepresidente. Can somebody tell me sa prosecution?

608
01:42:08,290 --> 01:42:30,850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Allow the chair. Sa pagkakaunawa ko, pinapresento ang testigo nito para patotohanan ang pagmamayari, di o mano, ng ikalawang pangulo ng samotsaring mga armas na siguro ko ay bibigyan nila ng halaga. Sa pagsuma ng kanyang SAL-N ayon sa kanilang pre-trial brief.

609
01:42:31,110 --> 01:42:35,590
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ito po ba ang mga armas na ito? Mga gold-plated or may mga diamond po ba ito?

610
01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:37,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi ko po masasagot. Mga bala po ay

611
01:42:37,970 --> 01:42:38,510
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: diamante.

612
01:42:39,230 --> 01:42:51,350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi ko po masasagot. Yung testigo lamang po ang makakasagot niyan kung sakasakali. We will hear the purpose for which this witness is being offered once the offer is made, Senator-Judge Irwin.

613
01:42:51,530 --> 01:42:52,230
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Maraming salamat po.

614
01:42:52,230 --> 01:43:00,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Doon pa lang natin makikita kung katanggap-tanggap nga ba o hindi. At kung hindi katanggap-tanggap, the gentleman can make the appropriate motion at that time.

615
01:43:00,190 --> 01:43:05,120
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Maraming salamat po sa paliwanag na yan, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you po.

616
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:05,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before

617
01:43:05,990 --> 01:43:17,610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we pause on our lunch recess, can we place the witness under oath already, sir, that we at least are able to do that? Kindly stand up, Police Major Sangalang. Is it Sangalang or Sangalang?

618
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:18,270
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sangalang, sir.

619
01:43:18,550 --> 01:43:19,450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sangalang. Okay.

620
01:43:20,750 --> 01:43:34,970
Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Please raise your right hand. You, Joericson Sangalang. Do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Cyrus Jim Ramon Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.

621
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:41,420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly sit down. Naunawaan niyo po inyong pinanumpaan ng Police Major Sangalang?

622
01:43:41,420 --> 01:43:43,080
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Opo, Your Honor.

623
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:49,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mag lunch break lang muna tayo. So kumain po kayo. May lugar yata kayo para kumain.

624
01:43:51,770 --> 01:44:11,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We shall resume upon the request of Senator-Judge Lacson at 12.30. And we shall take a lunch recess and our lunch break. When we resume, we shall listen to the direct examination of the witness by the counsel for the panel of prosecutors. The court is in recess.

625
02:42:19,810 --> 02:42:20,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Ridon,

626
02:42:20,810 --> 02:42:27,030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: who will be presenting the witness? Kindly situate Police Major Sangalang to the witness stand.

627
02:42:28,160 --> 02:42:30,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Who will be presenting the witness, Honorable Ridon?

628
02:42:30,750 --> 02:42:43,740
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Yes, Your Honor. We are ready to proceed with direct examination of the witness. The prosecutor who will conduct the direct is Honorable Isabel Maria J. Zamora of the Lone District of San Juan City.

629
02:42:44,710 --> 02:42:48,470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Zamora is recognized on the part of the respondent.

630
02:42:48,930 --> 02:42:52,370
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, I am turning over to Carlo Joaquin P. Narvasa.

631
02:42:57,020 --> 02:42:59,020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Narvasa, what's your nickname?

632
02:42:59,580 --> 02:43:00,440
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: CJ, Your Honor.

633
02:43:01,100 --> 02:43:01,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: CJ.

634
02:43:01,720 --> 02:43:02,040
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Good afternoon.

635
02:43:05,730 --> 02:43:10,490
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, Attorney Zamora, the Honorable Zamora and Attorney Narvasa.

636
02:43:21,540 --> 02:43:24,300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nag-change costume ka ba o naka-jacket ka lang kanina?

637
02:43:24,520 --> 02:43:25,720
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Naka-jacket po ako kanina, sir.

638
02:43:25,720 --> 02:43:27,240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, okay. Akala ko nag-change costume ka eh.

639
02:43:28,380 --> 02:43:29,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Parang nagbago eh.

640
02:43:32,380 --> 02:43:38,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Forgive me for that, Police Major Sangalang. Honorable Zamora, you may make your offer, ma'am, when you're ready.

641
02:43:39,440 --> 02:45:04,450
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honors. Good afternoon. We offer the testimony of Police Major Joericson Sangalang. First, to prove that the witness is a police major of the Philippine National Police assigned to the Firearms and Explosives Office as its Chief of the Records Section and is a member of the Firearms Classification Board. Two, to prove that the PNP Through the FEO, processes and approves applications for the issuance of licenses to qualified individuals and causes the registration of firearms in accordance with Republic Act No. 10591 and its implementing rules and regulations. 3. To prove that the respondent Vice President Sara Duterte Carpio and her husband, Atty. Mance Carpio, both possess licenses to own and possess firearms, LTOP. Type 5, and are classified as certified gun collectors. 4. To prove that the Vice President and her husband maintain a hobby in gun collecting by owning, possessing, and maintaining at least 50 firearms, which includes pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns, with a total value of at least 7 million pesos. 5. To prove such other relevant allegations and to identify and authenticate relevant documents.

642
02:45:06,760 --> 02:45:08,860
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment on the part of Attorney CJ?

643
02:45:09,240 --> 02:45:33,440
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. First, Your Honor, the defense registers its continuing objection to the introduction of testimony and documents in relation to Attorney Carpio. This is in relation to this Honorable Court's July 2026 ruling. However, Your Honor, we do not request the Honorable Court for any ruling today, but merely ask that our objection be noted.

644
02:45:35,760 --> 02:46:05,540
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Second, Your Honor, as to the fourth purpose, the witness would be incompetent to testify on any supposed value of the firearms as he is testifying as Chief of the Firearms and Explosives Office who has no expertise in appraisal. Still on the fourth purpose, Your Honor, we object also to the amount that the

645
02:46:07,670 --> 02:46:12,330
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Prosecution has offered for the same reason as previously stated, Your Honor.

646
02:46:16,460 --> 02:46:18,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any comment, Honorable Zamora?

647
02:46:19,060 --> 02:47:56,210
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, as regards the first objection, the continuing objection as regards Attorney Manassas Manscarpio, the Honorable Presiding Officer has time and again ruled that the assets of Attorney Manscarpio should be included. In the deliberations before this Honorable Impeachment Court, considering that the assets of Atty. Man Scarpio form part or should be also stated in the Salen of the Vice President. This is in tune with the ruling of this Honorable Court as regards the Salen and the financial records of the Vice President and Atty. Man Scarpio. As regards The objection to the fourth offer that the witness is incompetent to testify because his functions do not include an appraisal or the appraisal of revolvers. He will be testifying based on the records of his office or the FEO as well as What is stated in the certification that he will be presenting before this honorable court in the same vein that the amount stated in the offer is the same amount that is stated in the certification that will be presented by the witness, Your Honors.

648
02:47:56,490 --> 02:47:57,050
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Just

649
02:47:57,050 --> 02:47:58,150
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: a quick rebuttal, Your Honor.

650
02:47:58,250 --> 02:47:59,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney CJ.

651
02:47:59,310 --> 02:48:27,450
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, I just would like to clarify the record. This Honorable Court has only ruled on the first issue once, on the 20th of July, Your Honor, and not time and again. Second, Your Honor, I would like to thank the Honorable Zamora for her admission that the appraisal of any firearms are not the functions of the witness. So I'd like to thank you.

652
02:48:30,640 --> 02:48:59,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before we continue, earlier the Honorable Erwin Tulfo raised a question which I believe is more proper now after the witness, after rather the member of the panel of prosecutors has made her offer. Would the Honorable Tulfo or, yes, like to reiterate his earlier query, cum manifestation?

653
02:49:00,040 --> 02:49:47,960
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yes, Mr. Presiding Officer, kagaya po ng tanong ko kanina, ano po ang relevance ng magiging statement ni Major Sangalang dito sa pinag-uusapan natin tungkol po sa hidden wealth or unexplained wealth? Kaya nga po kanina, though it was sort of a, yung question ko po is sort of a joke na may diamante ba, may gold ba yung baril na yan that we have to tackle all the firearms. Kung sasabihin na napakaraming firearms, marami naman po mga Pilipino, marami din mga firearms. Marami din po mga kolektor na mga baril, mga businessman, mga ika nga officials na... Maraming baril. So, I don't see the relevance here, Mr. Presiding Officer. But, what's your decision?

654
02:49:49,080 --> 02:49:49,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I

655
02:49:49,720 --> 02:50:02,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: believe the Honorable Soto also intimated to the Presiding Officer his reservation with respect to this witness. Would Senator-Judge Soto care to elaborate?

656
02:50:06,130 --> 02:50:33,110
Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I was just asking our colleagues, the fellow Senator-Judges earlier that I think the offer that was going to be given and as given now and that Senator Turpo was asking earlier is if these were contained in the sal-in of the Vice President. Am I right, Mr. President?

657
02:50:33,770 --> 02:50:38,550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think that's the direction they are headed towards, Senator Soto.

658
02:50:41,760 --> 02:50:44,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Zamora did not mention that in her offer.

659
02:50:45,820 --> 02:50:57,040
Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Well, I leave it up to you because I have been reviewing my Sal-N also and I do not see anything there that says guns.

660
02:50:59,260 --> 02:51:02,600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And you simply include it as part of personal property, I guess?

661
02:51:02,640 --> 02:51:11,700
Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Yes, I usually do that and I do that myself in the personal properties. So I leave the question to the court,

662
02:51:11,840 --> 02:51:12,640
Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Your

663
02:51:12,640 --> 02:51:12,880
Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Honor.

664
02:51:13,450 --> 02:51:24,710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Zubiri was also expressing some sentiments earlier to the Presiding Officer. Will you kindly place it on record as well, Your Honor?

665
02:51:24,910 --> 02:52:06,660
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Yes, Mr. President. Actually, while we were having lunch, we were discussing in the lounge the importance of this particular... With due respect to Congresswoman Zamora, we're friends and all, but we just want to make sure of the relevance of this particular evidence because Many of us are firearms owners here, if not all members of the Senate. We usually put it under personal effects and personal properties, Your Honor, Mr. President. So, I don't see there's any violation that I feel would happen if they do that, if the Vice President had done that. I don't think it's that much weight. We're looking for the bigger evidence that they want to present. If

666
02:52:06,660 --> 02:52:06,820
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: any.

667
02:52:07,120 --> 02:52:15,320
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: If any. Sabi nga ni Senator Lacson, yung malaking paputok maging kwitis. Saan na

668
02:52:15,320 --> 02:52:25,300
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: yung malaking putok umabot sa atomic bomb kung meron? Yan ang gusto po natin malaman. With due respect, of course, to the prosecution. Thank you.

669
02:52:25,940 --> 02:52:31,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Allan Cayetano is recognized. On the subject matter, Senator-Judge Allan, yes.

670
02:52:32,200 --> 02:53:47,230
Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Just to clarify the pleasure of our colleagues. So first, so basically the question is if the Honorable Major will testify on anything major. Secondly, whether the guns constitute a smoking gun or seriously, given the time that both parties said we want to use judiciously para matapos kaagad yung trial in a fair manner, that we will come up with a verdict acceptable to our people. I joined them, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. Senate President, if yun yung question na kung major ba to minor. Ang konti ko lang reservation is kung sana magkasundo yung prosecution at defense if we disregard this. Kasi I don't want the judges be the one to tell them what they can present and not. Unless nga we rule it's irrelevant. So just with that, I joined them in the sentiment. Yung konting caution lang. But I hope, yun nga, we can find a way that both the prosecution and defense will agree on something. So that... Yung process lang nung how we dispense with this issue, Mr. Presiding Officer. Thank you.

671
02:53:47,230 --> 02:53:48,360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Subiri.

672
02:53:51,750 --> 02:53:58,170
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Major Sangalang, you have a list of the firearms registered in the name of the Vice President and her spouse?

673
02:53:58,590 --> 02:53:59,150
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, Your Honor.

674
02:54:03,180 --> 02:54:08,760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, Attorney CJ, are you willing to stipulate as to the list?

675
02:54:09,570 --> 02:54:12,370
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No, Your Honor. We have yet to receive any.

676
02:54:12,370 --> 02:54:13,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You haven't seen the list?

677
02:54:13,310 --> 02:54:13,950
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: None, Your Honor.

678
02:54:15,750 --> 02:54:24,610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If I give you time to look at the list, would you be in a position to stipulate? I'm headed towards excluding this witness, counsel.

679
02:54:25,770 --> 02:54:26,570
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor.

680
02:54:29,050 --> 02:54:29,650
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Hold

681
02:54:29,650 --> 02:54:30,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: on, Honorable Zamora.

682
02:54:31,330 --> 02:54:51,320
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: To be quite candid, Your Honor, even if we were given time to peruse any list that the good Major will be presenting, we believe that this witness is irrelevant. Whatever he would state, it would be irrelevant. So we have the same reservations as the good senators.

683
02:54:53,420 --> 02:55:12,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Honorable Zamora, I hope you see where we're coming from. Even assuming he can put a price on the firearms that the spouses own at 7 million, that's well within the SAL-N she submitted of, I believe, 88 million as of the latest.

684
02:55:15,310 --> 02:55:22,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And there is no requirement to declare the firearms as a separate category in the SAL-N. Yes, Honorable Zamora, can you respond?

685
02:55:22,830 --> 02:55:23,030
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Actually,

686
02:55:23,030 --> 02:55:42,950
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, if I may manifest, the guidelines for the SAL-N actually require a statement of the firearms. Under Section 34, it states there that personal property registered with the appropriate government agency such as but not limited to motor vehicles, boats, aircraft, and firearms shall be declared individually.

687
02:55:43,850 --> 02:55:45,030
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, if I may

688
02:55:45,030 --> 02:55:45,440
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: respond,

689
02:55:45,440 --> 02:55:47,000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kindly let her finish.

690
02:55:47,000 --> 02:55:48,410
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sorry, apology, I thought you

691
02:55:48,410 --> 02:55:48,630
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: were done.

692
02:55:49,030 --> 02:56:06,870
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, also as regards the certification, the list that was mentioned earlier, the Police Major Sangalang has the certification with the list of the firearms of the respondent as well as her husband.

693
02:56:07,620 --> 02:56:08,880
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The list of firearms.

694
02:56:09,040 --> 02:56:14,940
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: The list of firearms are with Police Major Sangalang and we believe that it was issued yesterday.

695
02:56:15,080 --> 02:56:21,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: How about the value of 7 million? What would be the basis of Major Sangalang in proving the value of the Firearms Council?

696
02:56:22,250 --> 02:56:25,290
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, that is in the list as well.

697
02:56:26,910 --> 02:56:29,275
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That he produced?

698
02:56:29,275 --> 02:56:35,320
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: He will be presenting the list or the certification before this honorable court.

699
02:56:35,320 --> 02:56:50,120
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: And the values are stated there. And if questions will be propounded to the good gentleman, then he will be able to respond as to where the values are taken.

700
02:56:50,120 --> 02:56:56,100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Major Sangalang, you are in a position to state the amount or the value of each firearm?

701
02:56:56,830 --> 02:56:59,510
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, Your Honor. It is listed in our certification.

702
02:57:01,010 --> 02:57:04,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On the basis of what? Acquisition value or fair market value?

703
02:57:04,770 --> 02:57:12,960
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: It's on our... Market Survey, as of the current price, sir.

704
02:57:13,100 --> 02:57:14,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What if the gun was given to her?

705
02:57:19,660 --> 02:57:26,540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If the gun was given to her, how would the value be relevant? By way of acquisition, sir,

706
02:57:26,890 --> 02:57:30,140
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: By way of acquisition, sir, it will be a donation, sir.

707
02:57:31,160 --> 02:57:32,820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, hindi kailangan isama?

708
02:57:33,980 --> 02:57:41,460
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Naka-check na po namin yung records niya and wala naman pong donation, sir.

709
02:57:47,000 --> 02:58:10,340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your witness, counsel, but may I remind you to kindly abbreviate it because as most of the senator-judges have mentioned, we find this witness not as convincing with respect to ill-gotten wealth as would be others, given at only the small value of this.

710
02:58:12,300 --> 02:58:24,830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: but also given that as stated by Senator-Judge Soto, these are not separately listed in other declarations of SAL-N by other officials. Yes, Attorney CJ.

711
02:58:25,130 --> 02:59:15,730
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. If I may just comment on the explanation of the Honorable Zamora. Your Honor, what she quoted was the 2025 CSC rules, which... do not have application to the silence of the Vice President as those will be applicable only for submissions beginning 2026, Your Honor. And also as regards the market value that the witness had already said, that again is irrelevant because what is pertinent, Your Honor, is the acquisition cost. So from the very beginning, The witness's testimony has proven to be no value.

712
02:59:17,580 --> 02:59:19,960
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: With all due respect, of course.

713
02:59:32,720 --> 02:59:38,180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you willing to stipulate with respect to the position of Police Major Sangalang?

714
02:59:38,180 --> 02:59:38,720
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes,

715
02:59:38,720 --> 02:59:38,940
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor.

716
02:59:39,040 --> 02:59:48,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And that he will be testifying as to the firearms that are licensed to the Vice President and her spouse based on their records?

717
02:59:48,260 --> 02:59:49,210
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor.

718
02:59:49,210 --> 02:59:52,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So that foregoes with offers number 1 and 2.

719
02:59:53,880 --> 03:00:04,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Zamora, you may proceed with your direct examination. In relation to offers 3 and 4. If you may.

720
03:00:05,160 --> 03:00:06,060
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honors.

721
03:00:06,340 --> 03:00:13,520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, ma'am. And again, let's try to abbreviate the proceedings insofar as this witness is concerned. Let's try to finish them today. You may proceed, ma'am.

722
03:00:13,840 --> 03:00:18,060
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honors, we will abbreviate our questions.

723
03:00:19,780 --> 03:00:22,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed to offer number 3 and 4 and so on.

724
03:00:22,580 --> 03:00:22,980
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay.

725
03:00:27,250 --> 03:00:31,190
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Mr. Witness, good afternoon. Mag-focus po tayo sa LTOP.

726
03:00:32,790 --> 03:00:36,200
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Ano pong iba't-ibang uri ng LTOP? Kung meron man.

727
03:00:36,520 --> 03:00:37,900
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. Relevance.

728
03:00:39,230 --> 03:00:47,190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it, counsel. I know where she said that. She's trying to abbreviate the proceedings in accordance with the court's instruction. Please answer, Major Sangalang.

729
03:00:47,190 --> 03:01:06,980
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Meron po tayong dalawang classification ng LTAF. Yun po ay ang individual and juridical. Under the individual, meron po tayong limang types, Type 1 to 5. Sa Type 1 po ay maaari po siyang magkaroon ng hanggang dalawang firearms.

730
03:01:06,980 --> 03:01:17,320
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sa Type 2, hanggang 5. Sa Type 3, hanggang 10. Sa Type 4, hanggang 15. At sa Type 5 po ay more than 15 firearms.

731
03:01:17,840 --> 03:01:26,820
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Base po sa records ng PNPFEO, ano po ang uri ng license na na-issue kay Vice President Sara?

732
03:01:27,660 --> 03:01:30,320
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. No testimony has yet been made.

733
03:01:30,620 --> 03:01:32,860
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, we're trying to abbreviate the proceedings.

734
03:01:33,400 --> 03:01:35,845
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: We withdraw the objection, Your Honor.

735
03:01:35,845 --> 03:01:36,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, with

736
03:01:36,890 --> 03:01:37,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your indulgence,

737
03:01:37,570 --> 03:01:38,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney

738
03:01:38,050 --> 03:01:41,530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: CJ. Please, please continue, Honorable Zamora.

739
03:01:42,550 --> 03:01:50,310
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Again, Mr. Witness, base po sa record ng PNP-FEO, anong uri ng lisensya po kung meron man ang na-issue kay Vice President Sara?

740
03:01:51,550 --> 03:01:55,290
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Meron po siyang LTOP Type 5 po.

741
03:01:55,290 --> 03:01:55,910
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay.

742
03:01:56,150 --> 03:02:04,050
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: At ano naman pong uri ng lisensya ang na-issue ng PNP-FEO kay Vice President Sara?

743
03:02:04,170 --> 03:02:05,810
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Atty. Man Scarpio.

744
03:02:07,440 --> 03:02:08,960
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: LTOP Type 5 din po ma'am.

745
03:02:09,080 --> 03:02:10,320
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay, maraming salamat.

746
03:02:13,370 --> 03:02:32,250
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Puntahan lang natin yung LTOP Type 5. Compared with other LTOP Type 1, Type 4, what special requirement is sought from a Type 5 licensee kung meron ma'am?

747
03:02:34,830 --> 03:02:52,700
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Para po sa mga LTAP holder ng Type 3, Type 4 to Type 5 po, they are required to have a physical inspection of their vault. Kailangan po meron po talaga silang vault and nire-require po na i-inspect po ito.

748
03:02:54,570 --> 03:03:02,490
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay, thank you po. Puntahan po natin ang firearms ni Respondent Vice President Sara at ng kanyang asawa.

749
03:03:07,260 --> 03:03:17,670
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Batay po sa... Batay po sa records ng inyong tanggapan, ilang pong baril ang nakarehistro sa pangalan ni Vice President Sara.

750
03:03:20,600 --> 03:03:21,300
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Can

751
03:03:21,300 --> 03:03:22,980
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: I check my records, Your Honor?

752
03:03:22,980 --> 03:03:25,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so, Major Sangalang.

753
03:03:30,780 --> 03:03:31,480
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Si

754
03:03:38,680 --> 03:03:42,840
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Vice President Sara po ay merong 22 firearms,

755
03:03:46,440 --> 03:03:53,080
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: meron po siyang 14 na pistol, dalawang revolver,

756
03:03:57,710 --> 03:04:06,250
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: limang rifle, Of which, tatlo po doon ay class A light weapon and isa pong shotgun.

757
03:04:07,790 --> 03:04:10,370
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Binagit niyo po ang class A light weapon. Ano po ito?

758
03:04:10,630 --> 03:04:12,270
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. Again, relevance.

759
03:04:13,050 --> 03:04:15,550
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, we are talking about the firearms, Vice President.

760
03:04:15,550 --> 03:04:28,880
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I know out of habit, perhaps, Atty. CJ, you would, but I'll allow it. Please answer, Maj. Sangalang.

761
03:04:28,880 --> 03:04:29,160
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor.

762
03:04:32,460 --> 03:04:35,880
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Ang class A light weapons po ay mga

763
03:04:37,570 --> 03:04:45,780
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: baril na may caliber po hanggang 7.62 with automatic functions or fully automatic po sila.

764
03:04:46,080 --> 03:04:52,320
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. Para sa kaalaman ng lahat, ano po ang may ibig sabihin ng fully automatic functions?

765
03:04:55,080 --> 03:04:59,560
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yung firearms po na yun ay capable of burst of fire.

766
03:05:01,620 --> 03:05:06,500
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Ibig sabihin po nito pag kinalabit po natin yung gatilyo, sunod-sunod na po yung puputok.

767
03:05:07,100 --> 03:05:13,860
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. At sino-sino ba po ang pwedeng magmayari ng firearms with fully automatic functions kung meron man?

768
03:05:21,780 --> 03:05:38,480
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Stated in Republic Act 10591, that is Section 10, only law enforcement agencies can acquire Class A light weapons, especially

769
03:05:40,400 --> 03:05:57,320
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: PNP and AFP. However, For those individual na nakapag-acquire na po prior ng effectivity ng batas na ito, ay maaari pa rin pong ipagpatuloy ang kanilang pagkakaroon ng Class A light weapon.

770
03:05:58,900 --> 03:06:12,680
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Papayagan pa rin po silang mag-register. However, hindi na po ito pwedeng ilipat sa ibang LTAP holder. So, lifetime na po ang pagre-registration nila. Kung ayaw na po nila na ituloy ang...

771
03:06:14,900 --> 03:06:19,460
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Pagkakaroon ng baril na klase A light weapon, pwede naman po nila itong isurrender sa PNP.

772
03:06:20,100 --> 03:06:27,040
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Witness. So para lang po malinaw, batay sa inyong testimonya, tatlo

773
03:06:27,040 --> 03:06:27,240
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: po

774
03:06:27,240 --> 03:06:32,680
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: sa mga rifle na nakarehistro sa pangalan ni Vice President Sara ay fully automatic. Tama

775
03:06:32,680 --> 03:06:33,140
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: ba po?

776
03:06:33,140 --> 03:06:33,780
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, po.

777
03:06:34,440 --> 03:06:40,180
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Basta sa inyong records, Mr. Witness, ilan pong baril na nakarehistro sa pangalan ni Atty. Manz Carpio?

778
03:06:46,540 --> 03:06:50,880
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, continuing authority for the Council. Assisting Councils may

779
03:06:50,880 --> 03:06:52,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: approach the witness.

780
03:06:52,560 --> 03:06:53,100
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you.

781
03:06:53,180 --> 03:06:57,260
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Si Atty. Manzcarpia naman po ay merong 29 firearms.

782
03:06:59,900 --> 03:07:16,220
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Meron po siyang 16 pistol, dalawang revolver, isang shotgun, sampung rifle, isa po doon ay class A light weapon, at meron din po siyang isang expired na firearm.

783
03:07:18,510 --> 03:07:33,850
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Mr. Witness. Ano pong katibayan nyo kung meron man upang patunayan na ang ating Vice President ay may 22 na firearms, samantalang ang kanyang asawa ay may 29 na firearms?

784
03:07:38,120 --> 03:07:40,340
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Ito pong certification na dala ko, ma'am.

785
03:07:40,760 --> 03:07:41,320
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay.

786
03:07:41,480 --> 03:07:46,860
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Meron na rin po akong dala ng flash drive kung nais po natin ay flash a screen po.

787
03:07:47,160 --> 03:07:49,220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting Councils may approach from both parties.

788
03:07:49,720 --> 03:07:51,200
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor. How many

789
03:07:51,200 --> 03:07:52,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: copies did you bring, Major?

790
03:07:58,090 --> 03:08:00,230
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Two copies po, Sir, Your Honor.

791
03:08:01,810 --> 03:08:09,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly give both parties a copy. Do you have a copy, Honorable Zamora?

792
03:08:10,190 --> 03:08:11,090
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, no.

793
03:08:11,350 --> 03:08:12,130
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: We have a...

794
03:08:12,130 --> 03:08:14,090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly give both assisting counsels a

795
03:08:14,090 --> 03:08:21,880
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: copy. Later on, kindly furnish Honorable Zamora the court with a copy as well.

796
03:08:22,190 --> 03:08:23,230
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: We will do that, Your Honor.

797
03:08:23,430 --> 03:08:24,030
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor.

798
03:08:24,150 --> 03:08:38,210
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, he also mentioned that he has a USB wherein he saved the certification. We ask that the same be brought to the technical booth so that we may flash the contents before the Honorable Court.

799
03:08:38,330 --> 03:08:40,050
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Ilang USB po ang dala niyo, Major?

800
03:08:40,050 --> 03:08:40,870
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Isa lang po.

801
03:08:40,870 --> 03:08:44,870
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly turn over the USB to Assisting Counsel.

802
03:08:49,300 --> 03:08:53,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa kabila, sa kanan mo. Huwag sa kaliwa. Baka hindi yan makarating dun.

803
03:08:59,340 --> 03:09:00,380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, counsel.

804
03:09:01,020 --> 03:09:02,400
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor.

805
03:09:02,780 --> 03:09:03,860
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your

806
03:09:04,400 --> 03:09:06,800
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Honor, we respectfully

807
03:09:08,880 --> 03:09:31,470
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: request that the certifications be marked as are Exhibit P-Roman numeral 2-5-D for the certification regarding the Vice President's Firearms Records and

808
03:09:33,170 --> 03:09:43,890
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: For the second certification, P-Roman numeral 2-5-E for the records of Attorney Manzcarpio.

809
03:09:44,050 --> 03:09:45,090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are these pre-marked?

810
03:09:45,090 --> 03:09:45,370
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Not yet.

811
03:09:45,650 --> 03:09:48,570
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: These are not pre-marked, Your Honor.

812
03:09:48,910 --> 03:09:51,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let it so be marked at a later time through the Clerk of Court.

813
03:09:52,250 --> 03:09:53,350
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor.

814
03:09:58,150 --> 03:09:59,050
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: May we continue?

815
03:09:59,050 --> 03:09:59,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Counsel.

816
03:10:01,730 --> 03:10:06,730
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Mr. Witness, sa certification po na inyong dala,

817
03:10:12,650 --> 03:10:22,750
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Meron pong sa second page, meron pong pangalan dito na Joericson H. Sangalang at may pirma po sa taas nito. Kanina po yung pirma?

818
03:10:23,340 --> 03:10:24,440
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sa akin po ma'am.

819
03:10:25,440 --> 03:10:33,840
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Meron din pong pangalan dito Michelin S. Liano at may pirma po sa taas nito. Kanina po yung pirmang ito?

820
03:10:35,690 --> 03:10:36,730
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sa akin po ma'am.

821
03:10:37,530 --> 03:10:38,190
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Kanina po?

822
03:10:38,550 --> 03:10:40,670
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Kay Major Lianya ma'am.

823
03:10:41,000 --> 03:10:48,260
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay, kay Major Liano. At paano niyo po nalaman na ito ay pirma ng Major, Police Major Liano?

824
03:10:50,710 --> 03:10:52,810
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Magkakasama po kami nung pumirma po kami dyan, ma'am.

825
03:10:53,170 --> 03:11:05,580
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. At meron din pong pangalan na Maria Yolanda R. Agabao. At may pirma po sa taas nito. Kanino po yung pirma na ito?

826
03:11:06,420 --> 03:11:08,780
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Kay Lieutenant Colonel Agabao, ma'am.

827
03:11:09,240 --> 03:11:12,540
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: At paano mo din po nalaman na ito ang kanyang perma?

828
03:11:12,980 --> 03:11:14,900
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Kasama ko din po siya ma'am nung pumirma po ako.

829
03:11:15,500 --> 03:11:17,640
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Witness.

830
03:11:21,800 --> 03:11:30,770
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Mr. Witness, dito po sa certifications, yung last column po ay pinamagatang amount.

831
03:11:33,370 --> 03:11:39,350
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Ano po ang naging batayan ng inyong tanggapan para sa mga values sa ilalim ng heading na amount?

832
03:11:41,640 --> 03:11:49,940
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: As I have said earlier ma'am, ito po ay Based on market survey na ginawa po ng aming opisina, ma'am.

833
03:11:49,980 --> 03:12:02,220
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay, thank you very much. Puntahan po natin ang firearms ni VP Sara. Your Honor, if we may be allowed, we will just highlight a few for the benefit of the public.

834
03:12:06,540 --> 03:12:09,580
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Sa certification po, item

835
03:12:12,260 --> 03:12:15,600
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: number 13.

836
03:12:16,480 --> 03:12:37,180
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Before I would see there is a presentation, may I... Know if any images would be projected and if so, what is the provenance of these images and the purpose of such images, Your Honor? Just for the defense's knowledge.

837
03:12:38,950 --> 03:12:44,530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Zamora, let's proceed with the actual document. I presume you'll be presenting the table earlier.

838
03:12:44,790 --> 03:12:46,190
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Yes, Your Honor. Sort of

839
03:12:46,190 --> 03:12:51,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: placing headings such as this. Can they go direct to the document?

840
03:12:51,810 --> 03:12:52,640
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor.

841
03:12:52,740 --> 03:12:59,440
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor, we will just check with the technical booth if we may be allowed, if they are ready to flash the certification.

842
03:13:06,420 --> 03:13:13,120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While we're waiting, Major Sangalang, yung nilagay niyong price doon is based on a brand new price.

843
03:13:13,540 --> 03:13:25,460
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes po. For the information po of everybody, sa FEO din po, nakalagay ang storage.

844
03:13:27,400 --> 03:13:46,430
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: So, lahat po ng mga baril na hindi pa po napibenta ay nasa storage po ng PNPFEO. At doon na rin po kami nag-conduct ng market survey dahil nandun din po yung mga representative po ng mga dealers, ng mga gun store.

845
03:13:46,810 --> 03:13:50,710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, would you be in a

846
03:13:50,710 --> 03:13:55,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: position to say na brand new lahat yun nung na-acquire? Not necessary?

847
03:13:56,420 --> 03:13:57,600
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Not necessary, sir.

848
03:13:58,660 --> 03:13:59,840
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: But I can

849
03:13:59,840 --> 03:14:01,700
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: check the record sir.

850
03:14:01,700 --> 03:14:02,620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would

851
03:14:03,550 --> 03:14:08,775
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you be in a position to know kung binili niya yun o binigay sa kanya?

852
03:14:08,775 --> 03:14:10,240
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: No also.

853
03:14:10,620 --> 03:14:12,320
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: I can check the record sir.

854
03:14:13,080 --> 03:14:14,500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As to the mode of transfer?

855
03:14:14,500 --> 03:14:15,760
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: As to the

856
03:14:15,760 --> 03:14:29,580
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: mode of transfer sir, I would like to answer again sa kanina po. May kita ako po sa system kung galing po siya sa gun store or galing sa tao.

857
03:14:29,580 --> 03:14:31,100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Alan

858
03:14:31,100 --> 03:14:31,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Cayetano

859
03:14:31,700 --> 03:14:32,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is recognized.

860
03:14:33,500 --> 03:14:34,690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is your pleasure, sir?

861
03:14:34,690 --> 03:14:45,880
Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Just on your point, presiding officer, just to clarify, Major. Sige po. So pag nakalagay dyan yung date 2023 or 2024, so yung price mo is as of today or as of 2023?

862
03:14:46,620 --> 03:14:50,780
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: As of today po. Nakalagay po dun sa baba ng certification po namin.

863
03:14:50,840 --> 03:14:51,280
Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So that

864
03:14:51,280 --> 03:15:20,320
Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: wouldn't be fair because sa SAL-N, you can put acquisition cost eh. Sa SAL-N, you can choose between an acquisition cost and how much it is today. So, that's not on you. Kasi yan lang yung survey nyo. But for, as Congresswoman Zamora said, for the public and for the senator-judges. If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Presiding Officer, you can put yung acquisition cost.

865
03:15:21,340 --> 03:15:27,640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Yes, I'm subject to that qualification, Your Honor. You may proceed, Honorable Zamora.

866
03:15:27,920 --> 03:15:28,800
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor.

867
03:15:29,520 --> 03:15:32,300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Rafi Tulfo?

868
03:15:36,410 --> 03:15:50,170
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Mr. President, Officer, nasa break kasi kanina may bisita ako kaya hindi ko nabutin yung pag-upisa pa lang ng hearing. Natataka ako ba't kailangan pa talagang ilagay dito as witness itong si, I'm sorry, what's your

869
03:15:50,170 --> 03:15:50,550
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: name, sir?

870
03:15:50,810 --> 03:15:52,570
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Major Joericson Hilario Sangalang, sir.

871
03:15:53,950 --> 03:16:46,650
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: From what I know, yung firearms pwede naman declare as personal properties. Lahat naman tayo siguro, lahat ng senator-judges dito may baril one way or the other. It's up to us na lang kung paano natin idi-declare. Ako, in-itemize ko. I'm sure yung iba siguro sa mga senator dito, nilalagay sa personal properties. So gumawa ko ng computation, 51 firearms all in all, yung firearms ni VP Sara saka ni Atty. Maneses. And kung ilalagay natin at 60,000 each. Bawat isa, that's only 3 million. Eh nag-declare siya ng 31 million sa kanyang SALN. So sobra-sobra pa 'yon. So for me, sorry ha, this is a waste of time. Mas marami pa sana tayong pwedeng gawin. Mag-plenary na lang tayo. Marami tayong mga mapapasang bill kaysa isasalang natin siya. At, sorry ha, nothing personal about you. Para sa akin, irrelevant po itong witness natin dito.

872
03:16:46,750 --> 03:16:48,030
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your honor,

873
03:16:48,190 --> 03:16:49,910
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: a short manifestation in response.

874
03:16:51,870 --> 03:17:28,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Earlier, Senator-Judge Raffi, the Court made a ruling already regarding this witness. And we are trying to abbreviate the presentation of this witness. So it's not to, as you pointed out, unduly waste the Court's time on this issue or matter which most or some of the Senator-Judges don't seem to appreciate the value of in relation to This article. But nevertheless, the court has already made, the presiding officer already made a ruling. So, Honorable Zamora, please continue.

875
03:17:28,650 --> 03:17:33,830
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Yes, Your Honor. We will be brief and we will show that it is not just 60,000 pesos per gun.

876
03:17:35,790 --> 03:17:37,030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed.

877
03:17:37,030 --> 03:17:37,610
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay,

878
03:17:37,650 --> 03:17:46,370
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: thank you. Mr. Witness, item number 13 ang certification po ninyo patungkol sa mga firearms ni Vice President Sarah Duterte.

879
03:17:46,830 --> 03:17:47,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly zoom it in.

880
03:17:47,990 --> 03:17:48,670
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Refers

881
03:17:48,670 --> 03:17:54,310
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: to... An M&P 9 Compact Pistol. Magkano po ito?

882
03:17:56,690 --> 03:18:01,730
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 99,000, ma'am. As of the current market price, ma'am.

883
03:18:01,750 --> 03:18:05,150
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Number 15 po ay isang Winchester Rifle. Magkano po ito?

884
03:18:05,530 --> 03:18:06,970
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 120,000, ma'am.

885
03:18:07,070 --> 03:18:10,850
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Number 8 po, STI Legend Pistol. Magkano po ito?

886
03:18:12,170 --> 03:18:13,490
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 167,000, ma'am.

887
03:18:13,750 --> 03:18:14,910
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: May tatlo po din.

888
03:18:14,910 --> 03:18:15,150
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor,

889
03:18:15,290 --> 03:18:29,620
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: may we... There is already a list supposedly of the market value. If we continue with this, we can already see it. Can we ask that this already be irrelevant, Your

890
03:18:29,620 --> 03:18:29,860
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor?

891
03:18:31,780 --> 03:18:34,680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: A couple more, Honorable Zamora, and then

892
03:18:34,680 --> 03:18:34,760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: move on.

893
03:18:34,760 --> 03:18:35,020
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Yes,

894
03:18:35,040 --> 03:18:40,800
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Your Honor. Just last two for the Vice President and another five for Attorney Manzcarpio.

895
03:18:41,000 --> 03:18:41,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And then, yes,

896
03:18:41,960 --> 03:18:42,560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and then move on.

897
03:18:44,700 --> 03:18:50,020
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Item number 7, 10, and 20 are Bushmaster Rifles. Magkana po ang bawat isa?

898
03:18:53,930 --> 03:18:55,270
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 200,000, ma'am.

899
03:18:55,870 --> 03:19:01,790
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: At sa item number 5 po, HK-636C Rifle. Magkana po ito?

900
03:19:02,730 --> 03:19:04,070
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 300,000, ma'am.

901
03:19:04,190 --> 03:19:09,110
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Puntahan natin ang mga firearms po ni Atty. Manas Escarpio.

902
03:19:09,290 --> 03:19:15,170
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may we object again for it being irrelevant if it's gonna be the same thing that would occur?

903
03:19:15,960 --> 03:19:22,180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We'll register your continuing objection, Atty. CJ. Kindly limit it to just three and then give us the total, Honorable Zamora.

904
03:19:22,400 --> 03:19:27,300
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Yes, Your Honor. Okay. We will limit it to actually just three. Yes.

905
03:19:30,450 --> 03:19:32,970
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Item number five, Mr. Witness.

906
03:19:34,700 --> 03:19:36,640
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Metral pistol. Magkano po ito?

907
03:19:37,800 --> 03:19:39,160
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 320,000, ma'am.

908
03:19:40,340 --> 03:19:47,900
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Item number 20, Mr. Witness, ng certification ni Atty. Manzcarpia sa Brugger and Thaumet APC rifle. Magkano po ito?

909
03:19:48,600 --> 03:19:50,300
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 600,500, ma'am.

910
03:19:50,520 --> 03:19:57,340
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Okay. At item number 7, HK416 rifle, magkano po ito?

911
03:20:01,080 --> 03:20:02,340
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 300,000, ma'am.

912
03:20:09,110 --> 03:20:11,250
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I don't believe it shows 300,000,

913
03:20:11,250 --> 03:20:12,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. Item number 17, Mr. Witness.

914
03:20:13,290 --> 03:20:14,310
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 17 po ay...

915
03:20:14,310 --> 03:20:15,450
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: 17, sorry.

916
03:20:15,670 --> 03:20:16,070
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Ah, 17.

917
03:20:16,430 --> 03:20:18,430
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: 17 HK416.

918
03:20:18,930 --> 03:20:19,950
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: 900,000, ma'am.

919
03:20:20,070 --> 03:20:32,170
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: 900,000. Okay po. Base po sa inyong certifications, Ano po ang total value ng kanilang firearms based on your market survey?

920
03:20:32,570 --> 03:20:34,590
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, if I may only, apologies.

921
03:20:34,590 --> 03:20:35,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney CJ.

922
03:20:35,800 --> 03:20:49,390
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The total here is irrelevant because the witness already admitted that these are just market surveys and it is not the acquisition cost. And this certification is also misleading.

923
03:20:52,360 --> 03:20:57,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Subject to that qualification and subject to cross-counsel. Let's go to the total.

924
03:20:57,260 --> 03:20:57,720
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank

925
03:20:57,720 --> 03:20:58,160
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you, Your Honor.

926
03:20:58,360 --> 03:21:07,220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Set this aside already. What's the total for the guns allegedly owned by the Vice President and her spouse? Major Sangalang?

927
03:21:09,130 --> 03:21:13,590
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: More than 7,200,000, Your Honor.

928
03:21:13,590 --> 03:21:13,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can

929
03:21:13,930 --> 03:21:21,370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you give us the exact amount, Sir? Na-add niyo ba? Hindi? I-add ko, Sir. May total kayo ng Vice President?

930
03:21:21,670 --> 03:21:22,490
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Mayroon, Sir.

931
03:21:22,730 --> 03:21:24,170
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: State the total for each.

932
03:21:24,470 --> 03:21:39,190
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Okay. Kay Vice President Sara Duterte po ay 2,184,550. At kay Atty. Manasis Carpio naman po ay 5,035,820.

933
03:21:39,870 --> 03:21:44,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And these again are based on your market surveys based on acquisition cost.

934
03:21:44,260 --> 03:21:45,070
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes.

935
03:21:45,250 --> 03:21:46,230
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: No, sir. No,

936
03:21:46,270 --> 03:21:49,230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not acquisition cost. Market survey of the price of the guns. And

937
03:21:49,230 --> 03:21:49,950
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: the price of the guns.

938
03:21:50,150 --> 03:21:52,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not necessarily the acquisition cost of these guns.

939
03:21:52,650 --> 03:21:52,970
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, sir.

940
03:21:52,970 --> 03:21:53,470
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, Your Honor.

941
03:21:53,870 --> 03:21:57,010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Because you have no personal knowledge as to the actual acquisition cost.

942
03:21:57,250 --> 03:21:57,850
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Tama po,

943
03:21:57,870 --> 03:21:58,030
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Your Honor.

944
03:21:58,030 --> 03:21:59,420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If any, kasi baka binigay.

945
03:21:59,420 --> 03:22:00,460
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Tama po, Your Honor.

946
03:22:00,460 --> 03:22:02,610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Honorable Zamora, you're a witness.

947
03:22:02,970 --> 03:22:05,890
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor. Just a last few questions, Your Honor.

948
03:22:07,630 --> 03:22:28,920
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Kanina nasabi niyo po na ang may hawak ng Type 5L tapay nangangailangan ng vault. Base po sa inyong knowledge, karanasan, experience, o kaalaman, gaano po kalaki ang kailangan vault? Para sa mga baril ng mag-asawang Respondent Vice President and Attorney Man, Scorpio.

949
03:22:33,430 --> 03:23:24,450
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sa dami mo sa bilang po ng mga baril nila, technically po hindi po siya magkakasya sa isang normal size na vault. Considering po sa meron po silang rifle, ang standard size po ng rifle barrel is 14.5 inches plus the frame and the buttstock po. So medyo mahaba na po yun. Siguro po kailangan po ng malaki or marami po para ma-store po ito kasi once po na binili po natin yung mga firearms, included din po doon yung case nila. So kung i-store po natin sila properly, i-sasabay po natin yung case. Pero kung hindi naman po nila i-sasabay yung case,

950
03:23:26,990 --> 03:23:31,820
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Nangangailangan pa rin po ito siguro ng malaking vault or marami po.

951
03:23:34,260 --> 03:23:35,580
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Mr. Witness.

952
03:23:38,160 --> 03:23:41,780
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Para lang sa aming kaalaman, gaano kalaki ba po ang isang gun vault?

953
03:23:44,280 --> 03:23:45,960
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Relevance, Your Honor, and speculative?

954
03:23:46,680 --> 03:23:47,240
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Not

955
03:23:47,240 --> 03:23:48,340
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: speculative, Your Honor.

956
03:23:49,120 --> 03:24:08,620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With your indulgence. Major Sangalang, posiblipo ba ng isang kwarto na may double lock o may vault? Mag-consider ang vault na for purposes of putting these firearms? A small, maliit na kwarto, parang bodega. Parang armory.

957
03:24:10,590 --> 03:24:14,210
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sir, I don't want to speculate my answer, sir. Because that's

958
03:24:14,210 --> 03:24:14,810
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: not in the rules.

959
03:24:15,050 --> 03:24:19,090
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: I am not part of the inspecting team, sir, na nag-inspection ang vault.

960
03:24:19,270 --> 03:24:28,410
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And that's also not part of the rules, as I'm aware of. Hindi naman sinabing kaha de yero na may combination na dapat hindi masusunog ng 50 hours o 30 hours, di ba? Sinabi

961
03:24:28,410 --> 03:24:28,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: lang vault.

962
03:24:29,090 --> 03:24:31,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, sir. Tama po kayo. It would be under lock and key.

963
03:24:32,210 --> 03:24:33,390
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, sir. Tama po kayo.

964
03:24:33,430 --> 03:24:42,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, it is possible na it can be stored in a small room, small bodega, as long as it is under lock and key.

965
03:24:42,460 --> 03:24:44,000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is possible.

966
03:24:44,000 --> 03:24:44,850
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Maaari po.

967
03:24:44,850 --> 03:24:47,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Your witness, kindly continue. Honorable Zamora.

968
03:24:48,030 --> 03:24:52,870
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Witness, matatawag mo ba itong isang armory?

969
03:25:00,040 --> 03:25:01,260
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection, Your Honor. Speculative.

970
03:25:02,450 --> 03:25:04,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is speculative, counsel. Move on, counsel.

971
03:25:06,050 --> 03:25:06,930
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Mr. Witness,

972
03:25:07,410 --> 03:25:08,350
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: tama

973
03:25:08,830 --> 03:25:12,990
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: ba na ang ating Vice President ay may ganito kalaking parilang?

974
03:25:13,220 --> 03:25:15,740
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Objection. Same. Again,

975
03:25:16,040 --> 03:25:19,340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ito be hypothetical and speculative. It's not presented as an expert, counsel.

976
03:25:20,760 --> 03:25:22,400
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: No further questions, Your Honor.

977
03:25:23,710 --> 03:25:26,710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, counsel. Attorney CJ.

978
03:25:27,010 --> 03:25:39,100
Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, since the Honorable Presiding Officer already established that it is what the testimony was on the market share and not the acquisition cost.

979
03:26:07,460 --> 03:26:20,210
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: For me, maybe, Papalitan natin yung pagdideklara ng firearms sa ating SAL-N. Instead na ilalagyan sa personal properties, ilagyan na lang sa itemized tulad na

980
03:26:20,210 --> 03:27:01,110
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: ginagawa ako para hindi na magkaroon ng kalituan tulad na nangyari ngayon na pwedeng ideklara yun kasama sa personal items. At pangalawa, nagtataka lang ako, hindi ko alam na pwede pala mag-own as many firearms as you can. So ang isang tao pwede na magtayo ng private army. Pwede nang magtayo ng isang army na lalabanan ng gobyerno. Pwede pala ang mantusawa up to 50, 60, 70, 100. You're allowed to do that pala. I didn't know that. I thought may limits, certain limits that you can own, especially the high-powered guns na pinapakita doon. Those are high-powered. Bushmaster, HK. So, sa PNP, wala. Walang ano tayo. Walang mantusawa ka ang isang private citizen to own a firearms.

981
03:27:02,950 --> 03:27:03,630
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes

982
03:27:03,630 --> 03:27:18,050
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: po. Hanggat hindi po siya pumapasok sa class A type weapons ay maaari po silang magkaroon. Basta po L-top type 5 po sila. Wala po yung limitation as long as nakaregister po ito palagi.

983
03:27:18,680 --> 03:27:49,300
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: This is something siguro i-revisit ng ating mga mababatas. Yung ownership of guns, whether you are a collector or not. Siguro dapat may certain number of guns na pwede ka lang allowed na mag-own. Otherwise, eh yung isang gun owner pwede siyang maglagay ng isang armory at mag-hire ng mga goons. At pagdating ng eleksyon gagamitin niya yung mga baril na iyon para sa kanyang tinatawag na private army. That's all, Mr. Presiding Officer, salamat po.

984
03:27:49,640 --> 03:27:51,040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sen.

985
03:27:51,320 --> 03:27:52,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge,

986
03:27:54,510 --> 03:27:58,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Zubiri is recognized, one of our gun enthusiasts here in the Senate.

987
03:28:02,130 --> 03:28:35,250
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: No, I just mentioned to Senator Raffi na pro-gun po ako na legislator. No, it's actually just for the record as well, Mr. President, Mr. Presiding Officer, for our dear friend, Senator Raffi, during the several hearings when we passed the firearms law, 0.01, at pwede ko tanayin po si Major, 0.01%. Lang ng registered firearms ay ginagamit po sa krimen. Tama po ba yun, Your Honor? That is the records being given to us by DILG and PNP, more or less.

988
03:28:35,730 --> 03:28:38,830
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sir, can I check first before I answer, Sir?

989
03:28:39,070 --> 03:29:53,650
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: But during the last hearing kasi, 0.01% lang ang registered firearms ay ginagamit po sa krimen at almost 99.99% ay unregistered loose firearms. Kaya dito sa bansa natin, unlike the United States where they have the Second Amendment in the Constitution, which is the right to bear arms, dito it is a privilege. Pribileo po yan. And dahil pribileo po yan, ingat na ingat po yung licensed firearms users na gamitin yan. Ingat na ingat nga kami mag-road rage, ingat na ingat po kami magka-violation, whatever. Pati acts of lasciviousness, pwede nang tanggalin lahat ng firearms mo in one order of the PNP. So, it doesn't really matter if you have one or one hundred firearms as long as you follow the law and you follow the law to its proper implementation. That means that you cannot use these firearms, you cannot bring it out of the residence unless you have a License to Carry, Permit to Carry, PTC. At the same time also, under the law, a Type 5 user can own, as Type 5 kasi is collector, di ba po?

990
03:29:53,650 --> 03:29:54,090
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes po.

991
03:29:54,090 --> 03:31:57,320
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: As collector, you can have also as many firearms as you want, as long as you comply. If you do not bring it out and fire indiscriminately, it has to have a permit to transport when you take it to the range, etc., etc. So, hindi naman po, actually, yung mga private armies, with due respect to my dear good friend, Senator Rafi, yan po, mga private armies usually, unlicensed firearms yan, yung mga BFFF, kung sino-sino mga terrorist elements yan sa Mindanao, unlicensed yan. Yung mga gun owners, they strictly comply kasi, Binabayaran natin taon-taon. Pinapacheck yan taon-taon. Hindi siguro may kasalanan dito yung mga maril. And I think the law is sufficient. That's the law that was authored by Senator Ping Lacson. Very sufficient na po yan when it comes to implementation. I think the only part of the law that I would like to amend, and I think that will be the discussion of Senator Lacson's next hearing, is yung paggamit Lalo na na yung sa mga school shootings. Ginagamit po yung mga licensed firearms ng magulang, ng kamag-anak, yung isa, tita, na police. Police po yun, hindi po civilian yun. Dahil nagkuha yung mga baril. Yan, payag po ako at sa amin dito na let's amend the law to make it stricter on the safekeeping of the firearms. I think that would be a good way to amend the law. Pag pinabayaan nyo lang, naiwan nyo lang dun sa sala o sa kwarto nyo at ginamit yung body length sa krimen, you are also liable. Liable po yung gun owner. Hindi niya po pwedeng sabihin na hindi niya alam. So he's liable. So for that, I think that would make the firearms law even more effective, your honors. Pero I think at the moment, the firearms law, sapat naman po yan. And just a point of information, I know there's no relevance to this investigation because really I think we should just be moving to Other points of evidence, Mr. President.

992
03:31:58,520 --> 03:32:02,640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Senate President is recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes when you're ready.

993
03:32:02,640 --> 03:32:02,940
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank

994
03:32:02,940 --> 03:32:09,020
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Major Sangalang, yung kaninang pininasent niyo, mga market prices yan, di ba?

995
03:32:09,020 --> 03:32:09,260
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes,

996
03:32:09,260 --> 03:32:10,100
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: po. Yes, Your Honor.

997
03:32:10,200 --> 03:32:38,390
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero pag tinitignan ko yung listahan na pinudus niyo, imposible naman pong bibili ni Atty. Manassas to at saka ni Vice President sa isang bugso. So over the years, binili niya ito. So... Sa aking pagkaalam, pag nagbebenta ng baril second hand, mas mababa yung presyo dahil may depreciation. Diba? Tama po ba? Based on your experience as a firearms expert.

998
03:32:39,850 --> 03:32:55,680
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Based po sa, on my knowledge sir, mas madalas po na ganun. However sir, there's an instance sir na mas nagmamahal yung baril. Especially lalo na sir kung stop production na po yun. And wala na po tayong makikitang ganung baril pa. Ito mga

999
03:32:55,680 --> 03:33:17,000
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: baril ba na pinakita mo sa amin, ito ba nagmamahal o nagiging mas mura? Dahil natural sa asset ang nagdi-depreciate, bumaba ba ang presyo? Pero base dito sa mga listahan na pinakita mo, at sabi ko nga marami dito na bili in the past, tumataas ba ang presyo nito o bumaba ba?

1000
03:33:17,880 --> 03:33:22,820
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sir, yung iba dito sir masasagot ko po pero yung iba sir hindi ko po masasagot sir.

1001
03:33:24,280 --> 03:33:25,460
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Anong yung masasagot mo?

1002
03:33:26,440 --> 03:33:30,380
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yung example sir, yung mga arm

1003
03:33:32,240 --> 03:33:40,020
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: score sir, Glock. Usually sir, nagde-depliciate siya ng konti sir pag ibebenta na po natin sa ibang tao.

1004
03:33:40,380 --> 03:33:41,660
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Correct. Kaya ako mayroon akong

1005
03:33:41,660 --> 03:33:42,040
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Glock.

1006
03:33:43,080 --> 03:33:46,340
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alam ko pagbebenta ko ngayon yun, mas mura na yun ngayon eh.

1007
03:33:46,480 --> 03:33:46,820
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes, Pa.

1008
03:33:47,090 --> 03:33:52,930
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: So, ibig sabihin, dapat i-declare sa SAL-N o dapat ang SAL-N yung mas murang presyo.

1009
03:33:54,250 --> 03:33:55,510
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kasi depreciated

1010
03:33:55,510 --> 03:33:55,870
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: na siya.

1011
03:33:56,130 --> 03:34:00,070
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Your Honor, I think I am not in the position to answer that question. Sinasabi ko lang.

1012
03:34:00,650 --> 03:34:13,830
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kasi yung pinresent natin dito, brand new price eh. But ang ating pinag-uusapan dito yung dapat i-declare sa SAL-N. So, anong klaseng mga baril ang nag-appreciate?

1013
03:34:15,020 --> 03:34:23,360
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Usually, sir, yung mga, yun nga po yung sinabi ko kanina, mga stop production na po, wala na po tayong makikita, and then yung mga antique po na baril, sir.

1014
03:34:23,500 --> 03:34:31,180
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Meron ka ba nakita dito sa declaration ni Vice President Sara at ni Atty. Maneses, mga antique na nag-appreciate?

1015
03:34:31,980 --> 03:34:35,720
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Sir, meron po akong isang... Based on

1016
03:34:35,720 --> 03:34:36,600
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: your experience, ha?

1017
03:34:37,100 --> 03:34:52,740
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Opo, based on my experience, sir, meron lang po ako ditong isang hindi po masabi sa baril ni... Vice President Sara kasi I'm not so familiar with this sir. So yun lang po sir. And kay Atty. Manz naman po.

1018
03:34:53,300 --> 03:34:56,140
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alin yun? Pwede mong ituro sa amin?

1019
03:34:56,460 --> 03:34:57,500
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yung Winchester sir.

1020
03:34:58,650 --> 03:34:59,150
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay.

1021
03:35:00,550 --> 03:35:02,870
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Listed po kasi ito sa amin as Class A light weapon.

1022
03:35:03,370 --> 03:35:05,450
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. And tingin mo nag-a-appreciate

1023
03:35:05,450 --> 03:35:12,140
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: yan? And chinig ko po ito kasi sir sa internet sir is

1024
03:35:14,900 --> 03:35:19,920
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Parang ano pa sir, World War II pa yata. Pero I'm not so sure sir. Pero

1025
03:35:19,920 --> 03:35:20,980
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: hindi mo naman nakita itong

1026
03:35:20,980 --> 03:35:21,020
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Hindi po siya

1027
03:35:21,020 --> 03:35:21,021
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: namaril

1028
03:35:21,021 --> 03:35:21,300
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Hindi ko po

1029
03:35:21,300 --> 03:35:23,260
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: siya nakita sir. Hindi ko po nakita.

1030
03:35:23,260 --> 03:35:30,700
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: But I think, ang common sa mga ganitong firearms, nagde-depreciate siya.

1031
03:35:30,700 --> 03:35:31,020
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Yes po,

1032
03:35:31,060 --> 03:35:31,420
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: tama po.

1033
03:35:31,580 --> 03:35:40,460
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Correct. So, meron ka bang market survey ng second-hand depreciated firearms?

1034
03:35:40,800 --> 03:35:41,500
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Para maging

1035
03:35:41,500 --> 03:35:43,220
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: apples to apples yung ating comparison?

1036
03:35:44,410 --> 03:35:49,750
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Wala po, Your Honor. Dahil ang ginamit lang po namin is yung current market price po.

1037
03:35:50,970 --> 03:35:55,930
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Dito sa listahan mo, wala kang linagay na anong year ginawa yung baril?

1038
03:35:57,380 --> 03:35:58,420
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Wala po, Your Honor.

1039
03:35:59,580 --> 03:36:08,840
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Bakit hindi mo linagay yung year para malaman natin kung siya ay luma na, bago pa, kailang binili? Para malaman natin more or less ano yung depreciated value niya.

1040
03:36:09,180 --> 03:36:20,320
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Ito po kasing certification na in-issue po namin, Your Honor, is system-generated po ito, Sir. And hindi po nakalagay sa module kung anong year po yung baril na yun ginawa.

1041
03:36:21,030 --> 03:36:26,870
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Like yung Glock na 20 years ago binili, mas depreciated na, mas mura na siya, tama?

1042
03:36:29,040 --> 03:36:29,720
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Maaari po.

1043
03:36:30,080 --> 03:36:38,470
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Diba ang Glock kasi hindi naman siya special eh, no? It can depreciate dahil normal na baril lang siya. I mean, your experience.

1044
03:36:39,840 --> 03:36:41,580
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Tama po. Bumababa po ang presyo.

1045
03:36:42,670 --> 03:36:49,970
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero mayroon ba kayong record ng year or make ng baril? When you register baril, mga baril?

1046
03:36:50,150 --> 03:36:53,970
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Wala po, sir. Ano lang po. Model, kind, and caliber lang po. So hindi

1047
03:36:53,970 --> 03:36:56,070
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: nyo tinitignan yung year of production?

1048
03:36:56,070 --> 03:36:57,230
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Hindi po.

1049
03:36:57,230 --> 03:37:10,530
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ah, okay. Mahirap malaman talaga kung ano yung totoong value ng baril as of this point. Base dito sa listahan mo. Yung totoong value niya as of this point. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

1050
03:37:14,100 --> 03:37:19,900
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There being no other Senator-Judge who wishes to make an interjection,

1051
03:37:21,970 --> 03:37:26,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we shall excuse the witness. Kung wala na po.

1052
03:37:27,450 --> 03:37:30,910
Rep. Ysabel Maria J. Zamora: Thank you very much, Your Honor, for allowing us a presentation of this witness.

1053
03:37:30,990 --> 03:37:43,870
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Major Sangalang, Police Major Sangalang, maraming salamat po sa inyong panahon, oras, kooperasyon, at pagsagot sa mga katanungan ng magkabilang partido gay din ng mga Senator-Judges sa hapo na ito. Thank you. Your excuse, sir.

1054
03:37:43,870 --> 03:37:44,750
Police Major Joericson H. Sangalang: Maraming salamat din.

1055
03:37:49,920 --> 03:37:52,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Ridon, yes, what is your pleasure?

1056
03:37:53,660 --> 03:38:00,960
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Because we are waiting for Mayor Duterte to attend on the date that he will come to the impeachment

1057
03:38:00,960 --> 03:38:01,180
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: court.

1058
03:38:01,240 --> 03:38:02,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That will be tomorrow, counsel.

1059
03:38:03,440 --> 03:38:09,600
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: We would want to discuss the next witnesses. We would want to discuss the next witnesses after. You

1060
03:38:09,600 --> 03:38:09,760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may

1061
03:38:09,760 --> 03:38:10,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: do so,

1062
03:38:10,140 --> 03:38:10,470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel.

1063
03:38:10,470 --> 03:38:13,500
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, before that, may I ask that our lead be recognized?

1064
03:38:13,900 --> 03:38:15,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Sheila is recognized.

1065
03:38:15,810 --> 03:38:16,640
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor.

1066
03:38:16,640 --> 03:38:19,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On the part of the respondent, you may proceed, Honorable Ridon.

1067
03:38:21,060 --> 03:38:45,350
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Pagkatapos po niya, Mayor Duterte, ang pagkakasunod-sunod po na hinahain po namin ngayon ay una, si Register of Deeds IV ng Davao City. Regional Center, Atty. Cathy Florence M. Baldonado Atty. Marco K. Pineda, Deputy Register of Deeds III Atty.

1068
03:38:48,360 --> 03:38:55,500
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Ronel Buenaventura, Executive Director ng Anti-Money Laundering Council Secretariat, Your Honor.

1069
03:39:09,730 --> 03:40:03,150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Separate dates for the subpoena given the sequence. Para hindi naman po maabala masyado ang mga taong ito sa mahabang panahon na hindi naman sila matatawag pa. If they will be presented in that sequence, then the Clerk of Court is directed to issue the corresponding subpoena for Attorney Baldonado and Attorney Pineda on October 1 and 2. Sorry, September 30, October 1 and 2. and the corresponding subpoena to Attorney Buenaventura on October 1 and 2 only, excluding September 30. The Sergeant-at-Arms is directed to observe the requirements for valid service under Rule 21 in relation to Rule 14 of the Rules of Court. In particular, Rule 21, Section 6 provides that costs for court attendance and production of documents and other materials shall be tendered or charged accordingly.

1070
03:40:05,010 --> 03:40:21,150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The panel of prosecutors is directed to observe whenever applicable the aforementioned rule and make the corresponding tender whenever asked for or if necessary given that these two witnesses will be coming from out of town in excess of 100 kilometers.

1071
03:40:33,820 --> 03:40:44,380
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: These three witnesses will be the only witnesses that they intend to present this week because I seem to recall that in the request for subpoena, there are other witnesses listed.

1072
03:40:44,840 --> 03:40:52,100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hanggang doon na lang siguro. Malamang abot pa tayo hanggang next. Ano yung Friday tayo ngayon, ano? Yes, for this week. For this week, Atty. Sheila.

1073
03:40:52,200 --> 03:41:01,545
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: And also, Your Honor, the schedule for trial until Wednesdays from 10 a.m. to 2.30 p.m. or...

1074
03:41:01,545 --> 03:41:02,230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Still

1075
03:41:02,230 --> 03:41:03,190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: until 2.30pm.

1076
03:41:03,690 --> 03:41:06,130
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: And we will start with the whole day trial starting Thursday.

1077
03:41:06,410 --> 03:41:20,370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Whole day trial beginning October 1 and then we'll proceed to October 2 and then 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 11, 13, 12, 11, 13, 14 would be whole day trials.

1078
03:41:21,270 --> 03:41:22,130
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor.

1079
03:41:22,370 --> 03:41:29,450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, do you think that'll be sufficient, Honorable Ridon, hanggang Friday na? Bearing in mind, we will have whole day trials.

1080
03:41:30,360 --> 03:41:33,580
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: In the meantime, Your Honor, sila po muna yung mga testigo.

1081
03:41:34,950 --> 03:41:43,840
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly prepare one or two more. And you can inform us tomorrow. Since it's still going to be Friday, you still have enough time.

1082
03:41:43,840 --> 03:41:44,450
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: We submit,

1083
03:41:44,510 --> 03:41:44,630
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Your

1084
03:41:44,630 --> 03:41:44,730
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: Honor.

1085
03:42:09,440 --> 03:42:10,480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other points?

1086
03:42:10,480 --> 03:42:12,280
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: We are

1087
03:42:12,280 --> 03:42:13,460
Rep. Terry L. Ridon: finished for today, Your Honor.

1088
03:42:13,680 --> 03:42:53,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, the court will issue its ruling with respect to the request for admission, objection, rebuttal, and so rebuttal of the... Councils for the parties. And we also issued a corresponding ruling on the show cause orders issued last week to wind the day for tomorrow after the testimony hopefully of Mayor Duterte. There being no other matters to be taken up, trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow 10 a.m. Tuesday, September 29, 2026. Session is at 2.30. It will be called at 2.30 for the information of these senators.