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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: The Senate President, the Presiding Officer,

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: and the Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

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Bantug: ...

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sergeant-at-Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

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Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Alan Peter Cayetano.

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Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: 2 Chronicles 7:14. If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Lord, many, many, many years ago, Lord Father God, Your people in Egypt thought they were forgotten, thought that they were worthless, thought that whether it is their culture, their actions, or kung simpleng kapalaran lang nila ang maging slaves po. Ang maging isang nation na hindi nakikita po ang pag-asa. But from a child who will be killed to the son of the Pharaoh, back to being a shepherd, you sent Moses. But Lord God, the 7 to 14 days journey from Egypt to the Promised Land, the 7 to 14 day journey from slavery to conquerors, turned out to be 40 years. It is said that this is so not because only of disobedience, but because one generation refused to think. Like conquerors, refused to submit to you but rather had that slave mentality. Even claiming in the desert that it is better to go back to Egypt because at least there is food and drink. Lord Father, it is 2026 and we are faced with an economic crisis, not only the Philippines, the whole world. We're faced with a crisis with our democracy, facing many, many corruption issues. We are faced with issues of accountability from the president to the vice president all the way down, Lord God, to our barangays. Lord, in 1906, after almost 400 years of Spanish rule, you decreed that we shift in our courts from Spanish to English. Exactly 40 years later, Lord God, we left the Commonwealth of the United States of America. to be an independent nation. Exactly 40 years more, we had the first peaceful people power revolution in the world. Lord, every 40 years it seems you have freed us for something and allowed us to conquer and enter. Lord, we pray that in 2026 you will make things clear to us despite our political persuasions.

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Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: We pray that you protect the integrity of this court.

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Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Not

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Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: only inside

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Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: this court, but external factors, Lord, even pressures targeted, Lord, not only at both parties, at the prosecution and the defense, but also at the senator-judges. We lift up to you our nation, Lord God, and humble ourselves. We pray that you will heal this land. In Jesus' mighty name. Amen.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Amen.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The clerk of court will now call the roll.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Roll call of members. Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan. Sen. Judge Cayetano Pia, Sen. Judge De La Rosa, Sen. Judge Ejercito, Sen. Judge Estrada, Sen. Judge Go, Sen. Judge Hontiveros, Sen. Judge Lacson, Sen. Judge Lapid, Sen. Judge Legarda, Sen. Judge Marcoleta, Sen. Judge Marcos, Sen. Judge Padilla, Sen. Judge Pangilinan, Sen. Judge Sotto III, Sen. Judge Tulfo Erwin. Senator-Judge, Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge, Villanueva, Senator-Judge, Villar Camille, Senator-Judge, Villar Mark, Senator-Judge, Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge, Escudero,

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: the

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senate President, Senator-Judge, Gatchalian.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: 15 senator-judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer. to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the September 2, 2026 Journal of the Senate, sitting as an Impeachment Court and shall consider the same as approved.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The clerk will please call the case before the court.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the public prosecutor, [unclear].

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the respondent accused.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you ready to call your witness, Honorable [unclear]?

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Your Honor, we received last night about the, or we were informed last night about the medical condition of SDO Edward Fajarda.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: And I understand, Your Honor, that during the last hearing, we offered to make a stipulation with the defense, Your Honor. With that, Your Honor, may we request Attorney Ray Robles be recognized?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For what, Honorable Chua? For the stipulation?

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: For the stipulation, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Do you have that in writing?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think we discussed in the last hearing that it should be in writing, submitted to both our opposing counsel and the court.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We confirm, Your Honor, that we have received the request for stipulation.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: do not seem to have a copy. Did you furnish the court with a copy?

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Yes, Your Honor. We filed

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: it last week, Your Honor, Thursday.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So this is only for Mr. Fajarda?

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Atty. Robles, Atty. Ray, you may proceed with your proposed stipulations. So, the counsel for respondent, be willing.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: stipulate on any of the enumerated stipulations on SDO Fajarda. Yes, Atty. Sheila.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May I ask permission for Atty. Lindon Miguel Bacquel to be recognized, Your Honor, for the purpose of stipulating.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lindon.

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Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You are recognized, sir.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Ray, you may proceed.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. Good morning.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor, we are making this request for stipulation out of due consideration for the health and well-being of Mr. Fajarda. In fact, we were going to make this last week so that there will be no need to subpoena him. But anyway, Your Honor, if I could proceed.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May we proceed,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Request for permission, Your Honor, to project the...

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Proposals for stipulation one by one for the benefit of the honorable senator-judges and the public.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Permission is granted for the benefit of the public and the senator-judges. Again, to confirm, Attorney Lindon, you have a copy, right?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. You may proceed, Counsel.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Number one, na si ginaong Edward Fajarda ay tinalaga ng Respondent Vice President Sara Z. Duterte. nung siya ay kalihim ng Kagawaran ng Edukasyon bilang Special Disbursing Officer or SDO para sa confidential funds ng Department of Education noong taong 2023.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, before we proceed, may we request the prosecution to make the proposals for stipulation in English, Your Honor, considering that the proposals we received are written in English, Your Honor. So that we don't get any contrary or differing interpretation regarding the stipulations, Your

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor, the proposal in English are projected on the screen and we are merely trying to translate it to Filipino so that the viewing public may understand.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is on the screen, Attorney Lindon, and if there are any deviations from the... Of the Tagalog-Filipino translation from their English proposed stipulation, the court will be mindful and take note of it and point it out.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Thank

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: you,

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney Ray.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: That is the first request, Your Honor. May we hear from the distinguished counsel for the respondent if they're willing to stipulate in that regard?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate, Your Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank you. Number two, na bilang special disbursing officer, nag-encash si Ginoong Fajarda ng tatlong cheque bilang cash advance mula sa confidential funds ng Department of Education na may petsang February 20, 2023, April 19, 2023, at July 11, 2023. At ang bawat isa ay nagkakahalaga ng 37,500,000 pesos. Para sa kabuang halagang 112,500,000 pesos at ito ay pinakita ng kaukulang cheque, cash advance voucher at mga kaukulang records ng Department of Education at COA.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: [unclear] whether or not counsel is willing to stipulate?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate, Your Honor, but, uh, we can we also request for stipulation on defense exhibits 3, 27, and 57, your honor, as well as 4, 29, and 58-D, your honor. These are common exhibits, your honor. These are the Land Bank of the Philippines check ending 453, which is 3, D-I-3-DE, Land Bank of the Philippines check ending 964, which is D-I-27-DE, and Land Bank of the Philippines check number ending 2250 which is D-I-57-DE, Your Honor. Moreover, Your Honor, we would also request for stipulation of the disbursement vouchers dated February 20, 2023 which is D-I-4-DE. Disbursement voucher dated April 19, 2023 which is D-I-28-DE and disbursement voucher number 2307-10503 which is Defense Exhibits D-I-58-DE, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: These are Common Exhibits Counsel, right?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, correct, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ray?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Willing to stipulate on our part, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So stipulated.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Thank you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney Ray.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: 4. Na ibinigay ni Ginoong Fajarda ang nasabing confidential funds kay Col. Dennis Nolasco na noon ay deputy commander ng Vice President Security and Protection Group or VPSPG.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the requested stipulation is turned over na tinranslate sa binigay.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, can we propose a different wording for this stipulation, Your Honor? The defense proposes that this stipulation be worded as SDO Mr. Edward Fajarda disbursed said confidential funds to Colonel Dennis Nolasco as a designated security officer, Your

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Insofar as the prosecution is concerned, Your Honor, since there is no showing, That there were proper evidence, document evidencing payment as far as we're concerned that was not a disbursement. So we are not willing to stipulate in that regard.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we can counsel. But may I ask, Atty. Ray? If I remember correctly, you can correct me if I'm wrong, Atty. Ray. Atty. Lindon, you can correct me too if I'm wrong. My recollection of the TSN, that's what distinguished what Mr. Fajarda said compared to [unclear], that he disbursed. Am I mistaken?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: No, Your Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Mr. Fajarda has not yet testified, so we are relying on the video of Mr. Fajarda.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm saying in the house.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: He

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: said that he turned it over. He did not say disbursed, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, I'm not sure. Attorney Lindon, do you confirm?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we note that the TSN dated November 25, 2024, particularly page 101.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Edward Fajarda stated that he disbursed the confidential funds to the security officers.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's what I

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: recall as well. Again, I read it. I did not watch the video.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. We can

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: show the video, Your Honor. There are several times that he mentioned that he gave it to...

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Since the court took judicial notice of this already, both the video and the TSN...

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would the attorney rate be content or satisfied with the fact that let the court simply appreciate the distinction between turnover as worded by the prosecution and disbursed as worded by the

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: respondent?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Well, Your Honor, we have a proposal so that we can agree to that, Your Honor. If the counsel for the respondent is willing to stipulate that Mr. Fajarda was not able to present, Any document evidencing payment in favor or executed by Colonel Nolasco then we will be willing to stipulate your honor.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We are not willing to stipulate in that regard your honor but can we just read for the record the Considering that the prosecution is in the request for stipulation, they are relying as well on the statements of the witness during the House hearings. May we just read for the record the statement of the witness, the intended witness, Your Honor. For the record, in TSN dated November 25, 2024, page 101 thereof, the intended witness stated, Your Honor, as part po ng trabaho niya po, iyon eh, kasi confidential operation po. So sa kanya ko, i-disburse yung pera.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor, there are numerous instances when that was discussed and in two other instances, Mr. Fajarda said that he merely turned over the funds.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And I can also point out to page 74 of the same TSN that also makes mention of the fact that he disbursed it. So, can we leave this point and can we just agree that it was turned over to Nolasco? No, that Nolasco received the funds from Edward and that the court will appreciate the distinction between turned over and disbursed at the proper time. Would that be enough?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: We submit your honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Lindon, would that be okay?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: According to Mr. Edward Fajarda, your honor, he disbursed the...

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we take note of that, and again, twice, if attorney Ray is correct, twice he said he turned it over, but I also see two occasions where he said he disbursed.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: can we agree that Colonel Nolasco received the funds from Fajarda?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Can we add, your honor, in Colonel Nolasco's capacity as a security officer?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would that be acceptable, Atty. Ray?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. But can we also make it of record that there is no document evidencing payment to Colonel Nolasco, from Colonel

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Nolasco?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, I can confirm that as of now, no evidence has been presented that it was received by Mr. Nolasco.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Then we will submit, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Lindon, acceptable?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We will just, no, Your Honor, but we will just leave it to the appreciation of this honorable court as regards.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is without

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: prejudice to the respondent presenting evidence, counsel, that he very much like what Gina Acosta said, if I'm not mistaken, that Lachica signed an acknowledgement receipt na binawi niya afterwards at wala siyang kopya. So right now there is no evidence on record as of now that Nolasco indeed received the amounts from Fajarda.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, move on, counsel.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. Number 4, na ibinigay ni Ginoong Fajarda ang pondo kay Colonel Nolasco sa utos ni Respondent Vice President Duterte at ito ay inamin na ni Ginoong Fajarda sa pagdinig na isinagawa ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability ng House of Representatives. Noong pagdinig noong Noviembre 25, 2024.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: The disbursement was based on the instructions of the Vice President, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can you repeat it,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Lindon?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If you're agreeing on the word, if we're disagreeing on the words turnover vis-a-vis disbursement, can we just say that the funds were received by Colonel Nolasco upon the instruction of the Vice President to

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: avoid that?

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. Whether it's

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: turnover or...

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Received by.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That it is received by. Again, taking note that the prosecution stands by its turned over quote-unquote words and the respondent stands by its disbursed word.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. Either we'll leave it to the Honorable Court to appreciate whether it's turned over or disbursement as

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: long as it is upon the instruction of the respondent, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Lindon, what do you say?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Can we modify the proposal, Your Honor, that it is based on the documents on record, Your Honor?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is there a document evidencing the instruction given by the Vice President? I don't think so.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: I don't think so, Your Honor.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: We have a video, Your Honor, of Mr. Fajarda.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Counsel, but without going into that yet. We're not going into that yet. Attorney Lindon?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Can I ask for a minute to confer with you?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have a minute, counsel, but I won't declare recess. In the meantime, we will review the [unclear].

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Thank you, Atty. Lindon.

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank

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Atty. Reynaldo Robles: you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Atty. Ray, No. 5.

00:28:40.220 --> 00:29:18.190
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: No. 5, Your Honor, na ang Commission on Audit, Department of Budget and Management, Department of Interior and Local Government, Governance Commission for GOCCs, at Department of National... Defense Joint Circular Number 2015-01 ay nagtatakda ng mga patakaran patungkol sa pag-request, pag-release, disbursement at liquidation ng confidential funds at intelligence funds, pati na rin ang kaukulang tungkulin ng Special Disbursing Officer, Head of Agency at Agency Accountant kaugnay nito.

00:29:25.580 --> 00:29:32.020
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we have no problem with stipulating this item, Your Honor, but this is a matter of law, Your Honor.

00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No,

00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:51.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: aside from that, Attorney Ray, this is already stipulated to by respondent, if I'm not mistaken, as one of the common exhibits, JC2015-01, which is one of the identified exhibits that was previously requested for stipulation by counsel for respondent, which they already acceded to.

00:29:53.390 --> 00:29:57.050
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor, I know that it is a common exhibit but I am not aware that it has been

00:29:57.050 --> 00:29:57.890
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: stipulated.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.980
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Number

00:30:00.980 --> 00:30:37.900
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: 6, na si Ginong Fajarda ay naghanda, pumirma at gumawa sa ilalim ng panunumpa ng mga certificates na may petsang March 31, 2023, July 30, 2023, at October 2, 2023 na nagpapatunay na ang confidential funds ng DepEd na ipinagkatiwala sa DepEd ay ginastos para sa confidential activities at ito ay kailangan at ginamit para sa legal na kadahilanan.

00:30:39.120 --> 00:31:10.750
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate on that item, Your Honor. However, can we also request stipulation on the Defense Common Exhibits, Your Honor? Particularly certification dated March 31, 2023, which is D-I-6-DE, certification dated June 30, 2023, which is D-I-30-DE, and certification dated October 2, 2023, which is Defense Exhibits D-I-59-DE.

00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:18.690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, I think this was stipulated already by the parties as well with the corresponding markings made and or given by both parties.

00:31:18.930 --> 00:31:19.530
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. That

00:31:19.530 --> 00:31:22.670
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: goes without saying because we're also marking them in evidence.

00:31:22.850 --> 00:31:23.550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney Ray.

00:31:23.670 --> 00:31:36.970
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank you. Number 7. na ang respondent na si Vice President Duterte ay nagpatunay at pumirma rin sa nabanggit na certifications sa ilalim ng panunumpanya sa batas or under oath.

00:31:37.260 --> 00:31:38.820
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate, Your Honor.

00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:40.200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney Ray.

00:31:40.280 --> 00:32:11.320
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Number eight, na nilagdaan ni Ginoong Fajarda ang nasabing mga certifications kahit na wala siyang personal na kaalaman kung papaano, kanino at para saan ang aktual na pag-disburse ng nasabing confidential funds ayon na rin sa kanyang pag-amin sa pagdinig na isinagawa ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability noong Noviembre 25, 2024.

00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:29.370
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, May we counter-propose a simplified stipulation, Your Honor, that Edward Fajarda has no personal knowledge on the implementation of confidential operations where the confidential funds was utilized, Your Honor.

00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:46.580
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor, it's not the same fact, Your Honor. Mr. Fajarda actually admitted this during the hearing of the Committee on Good Governance and Public Accountability. that he had no personal knowledge as to the actual disbursements of the funds.

00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:47.580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But

00:32:47.580 --> 00:33:02.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: he said no personal knowledge as well, counsel, with respect to the implementation of the confidential funds, which includes, I presume, counsel, to whom the funds were actually disbursed. Wala nga siyang alam sa implementation eh.

00:33:05.300 --> 00:33:07.340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So would that subsume it, counsel?

00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:10.690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would

00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:18.990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not having personal knowledge with respect to whom the funds were given be subsumed in no personal knowledge in its implementation?

00:33:19.750 --> 00:33:26.230
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: As I understand it, Your Honor, the videos are subject to judicial notice anyway. We submit, Your Honor.

00:33:26.830 --> 00:33:33.400
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we will just subject our stipulation based on the record, Your Honor.

00:33:33.600 --> 00:33:34.980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Then we can

00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:35.240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proceed.

00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:38.680
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Number 10. I'm sorry, number 9.

00:33:42.900 --> 00:34:06.690
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Na inihanda ni Ginoong Fajarda ang accomplishment reports na may petsang March 31, 2023, July 30, 2023, at October 9, 2023 kaugnay ng nasabing confidential funds at ito ay inaprubahan at nilagdaan ng Respondent Vice President Duterte.

00:34:07.850 --> 00:34:37.660
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We can stipulate your honor but we also request stipulation of defense as Accomplishment Report No. 23-01 which is D-I-21-DE Accomplishment Report No. 2023-02 which is D-I D-51-DE and Accomplishment Report Number 2023-03 which is Defense Exhibits D-I-75-DE, Your Honor.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:01.500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So 9 and 10, so stipulated, noted. Proceed to number 11, Atty. Ray.

00:35:02.230 --> 00:35:16.590
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Na ang mga nabanggit na certifications, accomplishment reports, at liquidation reports na ang kopya ay bahagi ng records ng pagdinig na ito ay tunay at wastong isinagawa ng mga taong may pirma dito.

00:35:17.620 --> 00:35:21.780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sorry, I should have included number 11 as well, Atty. Lindon, right?

00:35:36.730 --> 00:35:38.330
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Number 12

00:35:38.330 --> 00:36:01.480
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: na ang mga dokumentong ito ay na-identify ng isa pang naunang saksi na si ganoong Atty. Roderick C. Wamil, isang dating auditor. ng Commission on Audit, Intelligence and Confidential Funds Auditing Office at kaya ito ay maaring tanggapin bilang ebidensya

00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:02.660
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: nang

00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:08.400
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: wala ng karagdagang identification, authentication, or presentation nito mula kay Ginuong Fajarda.

00:36:09.540 --> 00:36:12.880
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, subject to the appreciation of this honorable court.

00:36:13.510 --> 00:36:17.690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Subject to that qualification, so stipulated, noted.

00:36:18.160 --> 00:36:20.260
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: At panghuli, na

00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:20.420
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: ang

00:36:20.420 --> 00:36:21.140
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: mga nabang...

00:36:21.450 --> 00:36:22.350
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, if I may?

00:36:22.390 --> 00:36:23.070
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Lindon.

00:36:23.170 --> 00:36:37.470
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We did not stipulate on item 12, Your Honor. Our comment is that the proposal is a conclusion which is based on the appreciation of this honorable court and would be improper for stipulation, Your Honor.

00:36:37.990 --> 00:36:50.620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So noted. Court, the presiding officer corrects himself. No stipulation but so noted as to the comment. As to the nature of the proposed stipulation of counsel for the panel of prosecutors.

00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:51.260
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank

00:36:51.260 --> 00:36:51.700
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: you, Your Honor.

00:36:52.200 --> 00:37:26.100
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: And lastly, Your Honor, na ang mga nabanggit na facts, statements, at documents ay nakatala na sa records ng kagalanggalang na impeachment court at ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, kaya't ang testimonyo ng saksi na si Ginoong Fajarda sa paglilitis na ito ay para lamang makadagdag o makakumpirma sa nasabing sa mga nabanggit or just in the nature to corroborate the cumulative or corroborative value, Your Honor.

00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:29.140
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Same comment as Proposal No. 12, Your Honor.

00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:41.030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, subject to the Court's appreciation, counsel, not objected to but subject to the Court's appreciation, duly noted. Does that mean you are withdrawing already your request for subpoena, Attorney Ray?

00:37:42.750 --> 00:37:51.670
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: If I may be given the chance to confer with the public prosecutors in this regard, we will manifest this afternoon, Your Honor, if we could entirely dispense with the witness already.

00:37:51.830 --> 00:37:52.090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay.

00:37:52.110 --> 00:38:06.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So after you shall have come to a decision or arrived at a decision, and if you so decide to withdraw the subpoena, only at that time will the court recall the subpoena it issued. We will be deciding that within the day.

00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:10.670
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank you very much, Your Honor. Thank you very much to the distinguished counsel for the respondent.

00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:16.180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Atty. Ray. Thank you, Atty. Lindon. The Honorable Chua is once again recognized.

00:38:17.910 --> 00:38:31.180
Rep. Joel R. Chua: Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, may we request the counsel for the prosecution, Atty. Mae Divinagracia, be recognized for the presentation of our next witness, Your Honor.

00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:36.360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. May is recognized. Who will be your first witness, Atty. May?

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:51.530
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we would like to call to the witness stand our Tenth witness in the person of Ms. Marizza Grande. But Your Honor, before we proceed, Your Honor, may I kindly request for the box, Your Honor, for the midget or short person that I am?

00:38:52.190 --> 00:38:57.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, yes. I think it's there, Attorney May. Somewhere.

00:39:02.770 --> 00:39:06.070
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Sheila, you will be the one representing the respondent.

00:39:06.490 --> 00:39:13.390
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, I will ask permission to recognize Attorney Justin Nicol B. Gular, Your Honor.

00:39:13.750 --> 00:39:14.750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Justin.

00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:24.900
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Good morning, Your Honor. Justin Nicol B. Gular, Your Honor, with the court's permission.

00:39:27.260 --> 00:39:30.480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You don't need a platform, Atty. Justin.

00:39:30.860 --> 00:39:31.980
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: That would be correct, Your Honor.

00:39:35.130 --> 00:39:36.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you ready, Atty. May?

00:39:36.630 --> 00:39:48.910
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. But before we proceed to the offer of testimony, Your Honor, we would like to request the defense to stipulate on the matter stated. in our request for stipulation that we filed last Wednesday.

00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:49.470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We

00:39:49.470 --> 00:39:59.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: will go there, counsel. Let's just situate first Ms. Grande to the witness stand. Kindly situate, Ms. Grande. Ms. Marizza Grande.

00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:32.360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly sit down. We will swear you in, Ms. Grande, once they are through with their stipulations and once we hear the offer because malay niyo, ma'am, hindi ka na kailangan, di ba?

00:40:34.550 --> 00:40:45.130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. May, you may proceed with your proposed stipulations. Do you confirm, Atty., that you received a copy of, Atty. Justin, that you received a copy of the proposed stipulations?

00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:46.890
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: It's Justin, Your Honor.

00:40:47.010 --> 00:40:47.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, Justin.

00:40:47.530 --> 00:40:59.610
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, I do confirm. The defense does confirm that we received the request for stipulation dated September 2, 2026, Your Honor. And to abbreviate the proceedings, there are stipulations the defense is willing to accept.

00:40:59.950 --> 00:41:05.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Do you want to go through it one by one? Or are there more stipulations you will accept or reject?

00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:08.540
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We can

00:41:08.540 --> 00:41:12.220
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: just go straight, Your Honor, to the matters that they are willing to stipulate.

00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:12.540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes.

00:41:13.220 --> 00:41:15.380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Of the 14, of the 15, how

00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:16.620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: many are you willing to stipulate?

00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:36.610
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor. With the court's permission, if I may be able to identify them, Your Honor. Your Honor, we refer this honorable court to page 1. We are willing to stipulate on items 1, item 2, item 3. and item 4, Your Honor. We would like to refer this honorable court to page 2. We are willing to stipulate on page 5.

00:41:37.130 --> 00:41:37.790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Number 5.

00:41:38.590 --> 00:41:57.850
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Item number 5. Pardon, Your Honor. We are also willing to stipulate on item number 6, 8, 9, and 10, Your Honor. So to be clarified, Your Honor, on the second page, we are not willing to stipulate. The defense is not willing to stipulate on item 7 and item 11, Your Honor.

00:42:00.160 --> 00:42:09.940
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: We would also now like to bring this honorable court's attention to page 3 of the request for stipulation. The defense is not willing to stipulate on item 12, Your Honor.

00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:10.760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not willing?

00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:17.420
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor. But we are willing to stipulate on items 13, 14, and 15, Your Honor.

00:42:19.590 --> 00:42:25.930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, Attorney May, I guess your offer will only cover items 7, 11, and 12. Would that be correct?

00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:28.640
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor.

00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:32.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Among others, Your Honor.

00:42:37.020 --> 00:42:41.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: With this stipulation, may we request Your Honor that Ms. Grande be already sworn in.

00:42:42.260 --> 00:42:47.600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Atty. Ray, kindly swear in the witness. Kindly stand up, Ms. Grande.

00:42:48.360 --> 00:43:02.980
Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Please raise your right hand. You, Marizza B. Grande, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

00:43:03.240 --> 00:43:03.660
Marizza B. Grande: I do.

00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:26.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Napag-nasabihan na po kayo at napaliwanagan na, Ms. Grande, kaugnay ng paggamit ng anumang listening or hearing device habang kayo po ay tumitistigo at kung abutan po kayo ng lunch break kahit po sa panahon yan. May paliwanag po sa inyo?

00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:27.820
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor.

00:43:28.120 --> 00:43:30.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At naunawaan niyo po yun yung pinanumpaan?

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:32.080
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, I do, Your Honor.

00:43:32.620 --> 00:43:33.920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Witness, Atty. May.

00:43:34.600 --> 00:46:11.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we are offering the testimony of Ms. Marizza B. Grande to prove the following. Number one, the PSA verified all 2,669 alleged payees of the OVP and DepEd confidential funds for 2022 and 2023, one name at a time. Sa kahilingan ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, dumaan sa apat na phase ang bawat pangalan. 1,992 mula sa OVP at 677 sa DepEd. Hindi ito pagsulyap sa listahan. Isa-isang paghanap ito sa buong CRS. Number two, 1,685 of the 2,669 alleged payees have no birth record, no marriage record, and no death record at all. 398 sa 677 pangalan ng DepEd at 1,287 sa 1,999 ng OVP. Walang maipakitang Estado na sila ay isinilang, nag-asawa, o namatay kailanman sa Pilipinas. Number 3. At least 152 of the 2,669 had a single matched entry in the CRS. Ibig sabihin, sa humigit kumulang 100 milyong records sa PSA, iisa lamang ang tumugma sa pangalan kaya natukoy ang mismong tao at nailabas ang certified copies ng kanilang civil registry documents. Number 4 At least 37 of those single match names were already dead. 32 mula sa OVP at 5 sa DepEd. Lahat may certificate of death sa CRS. Patay na sila ayon sa talaan ng Republika nang umano'y tanggapin nila ang confidential funds. Number five, at least 25 were children. Dalawampu mula sa OVP at lima sa DepEd. Six hanggang 16 na taong gulang noong 2023. At tatlo sa kanila ay wala pang three years old. In short, 6. Confidential funds were liquidated in the names of the non-existent, the long-dead, and children.

00:46:11.910 --> 00:46:12.630
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang

00:46:12.630 --> 00:46:29.470
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: mga pangalang ito ang nasa recipient lists at acknowledgement receipts ng OVP at DepEd sa 2022 at 2023. Mga taong ayon sa talaan ng PSA, walang record ng pag-iral, matagal ng patay o mga bata noon.

00:46:32.160 --> 00:47:01.070
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The names and acknowledgement receipts matched the marriage certificates. The signatures did not. Naglabas ang PSA ng certified copies ng kanilang certificate of marriage. Iisa ang pangalan sa dalawang dokumento, ngunit magkaiba ang pirma. At ito ay mahihambing sa harap ng hukumang ito. And number eight, such other matters relevant to the instant impeachment case, particularly Article 1 and confidential funds.

00:47:04.430 --> 00:47:06.690
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: With the court's permission, Your Honor, if I may comment.

00:47:07.090 --> 00:47:08.290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Justine, your comment?

00:47:08.530 --> 00:47:43.410
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor. In particular to Purpose No. 7, Your Honor, we believe the witness is incompetent to testify on such matters, Your Honor. And just a general comment, Your Honor. It is just the observation of the defense that the prosecution has developed a penchant for introducing conclusions of law in their offer. While we understand... An offer of evidence is allowed and discretion is given to the prosecution. We believe, Your Honor, that the addition of explanations from the counsel is unwarranted and shouldn't be made in the offer. Nevertheless, all the purpose is subject to cross, Your Honor, with the court's permission.

00:47:43.730 --> 00:48:17.340
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just to quickly respond, Your Honor, we've already repeatedly explained this, Your Honor. There's nothing in the rules that prohibit conclusions of law in the offer. In fact, in a host of cases... particularly Catuira, Your Honor, the Supreme Court already enunciated that the purpose of an offer is precisely to inform the court of the matters that the witness seeks, the testimony of the witness seeks to prove, Your Honor. So, necessarily, Your Honor, it would cover and include conclusions of law and fact.

00:48:17.680 --> 00:48:19.500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted, Duly noted, counsel.

00:48:20.300 --> 00:48:51.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Also, Your Honor, on the comment on number 7, Your Honor, that Allegedly, this witness will be incompetent to testify on this particular matter, Your Honor. Again, also, there's nothing in the rule, Your Honor, that says that each issue shall be proven by the testimony of a single witness. In short, Your Honor, we respectfully submit that the testimony of this witness should be taken in conjunction with other pieces of evidence that the prosecution has already adduced.

00:48:54.340 --> 00:49:00.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted again, counsel, please proceed. Let's not prolong this. Your witness, Attorney May.

00:49:01.120 --> 00:49:04.000
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Grande, magandang umaga po.

00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:05.620
Marizza B. Grande: Good morning, ma'am.

00:49:05.780 --> 00:49:22.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande, kasama sa inyong mga katungkulan bilang Assistant National Statistician ang pagbe-verify ng mga Civil Registry documents. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, paano po ba bine-verify ng PSA ang mga Civil Registry documents?

00:49:23.650 --> 00:49:31.130
Marizza B. Grande: Ang pag-verify po ng mga requests for civil registry documents ay dumadaan po sa apat na proseso po.

00:49:31.450 --> 00:49:34.570
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano po itong apat na proseso na ito na inyong nabanggit?

00:49:34.930 --> 00:50:24.910
Marizza B. Grande: Yung una pong phase, ito yung pag-receive ng mga requests coming from different agencies at pag-route po dun sa appropriate office within the PSA, Civil Registration Service. Yung pangalawa po ay pag-verify ng mga Request of CRD civil registry documents gamit yung mga information na i-provide using the CRS database. At pangatlo po yung pag-consolidate ng lahat ng mga Verification results at pag-prepare ng official reply. Yung pang-apat po na phase, ito yung final review and approval ng mga appropriate signatories. In this case po, yung National Statistician and Civil Registrar General at yung pag-transmit sa requesting agency po.

00:50:25.170 --> 00:50:32.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: By the way, Ms. Grande, kailan po kayo nagsimulang manungkulan bilang Assistant National Statistician?

00:50:32.660 --> 00:50:36.820
Marizza B. Grande: Ako po ay na-appoint noong August 30, 2022 ma'am.

00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:43.100
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bago po kayo naitalaga bilang Assistant National Statistician, ano po ang inyong trabaho kung meron man?

00:50:43.740 --> 00:50:50.880
Marizza B. Grande: Ako po ay humawak na ng iba't ibang posisyon na may kinalaman po sa civil registration tsaka vital statistics.

00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:51.820
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano

00:50:51.820 --> 00:50:53.360
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: po itong mga katungkulan na ito?

00:50:54.120 --> 00:51:13.260
Marizza B. Grande: Sa aking pong pagseserbisyo sa NSO tsaka sa PSA, ako po ay naging Division Chief, Registration Officer 5, Registration Officer 4, Archivist 2, at saka yung mga statistician positions, Stat 1 po and statistician aide.

00:51:13.600 --> 00:51:27.580
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande, nabanggit niyo po na marami na kayong mga katungkulan na hinawakan pareho sa NSA ngayon ay PSA. So, Ms. Grande, ilang taon na po kayong naninilbihan or nanunungkulan sa NSO now PSA?

00:51:27.970 --> 00:51:31.990
Marizza B. Grande: I've been in the service for more than 25 years na po.

00:51:41.150 --> 00:51:53.710
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, again, isa rin po sa inyong katungkulan ay pag-manage ng mga civil registry documents. Paano naman po minamanage ang mga civil registry documents na ito ng PSA?

00:51:54.310 --> 00:52:01.850
Marizza B. Grande: Ang PSA po bilang central repository ng lahat ng documents ay merong civil registry system po.

00:52:02.190 --> 00:52:06.150
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Maaari niyo po bang ipaliwanag sa amin kung ano po itong Civil Registry System?

00:52:06.690 --> 00:52:38.570
Marizza B. Grande: Ang Civil Registry System po ng PSA ay siya pong nagsisilbi bilang central repository ng lahat ng mga Documents na nareceive namin coming from the local civil registry offices. Kasama na rin po dito yung mga vital events na nire-report ng mga Philippine Foreign Service posts abroad. At saka yung mga Muslim divorces and including yung mga conversions and marriages po sa Sharia.

00:52:39.090 --> 00:52:42.830
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: To be precise, Ms. Grande, ano-ano po itong mga dokumentong ito?

00:52:43.750 --> 00:52:59.270
Marizza B. Grande: Ang naka-store po sa ating PSACRS database yung mga vital events such as births, marriages, and deaths. Kasama na rin po yung ibang registrable documents affected po ng mga court orders at administrative corrections po.

00:53:05.570 --> 00:53:16.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, Ms. Grande, bukod po sa kinakailangan ito sa ilalim ng batas, bakit po mahalaga na mairehistro ang mga kapanganakan, kasal, at pagkamatay?

00:53:17.780 --> 00:53:52.210
Marizza B. Grande: Ang pagpaparehistro ng births, marriages, and deaths ay mandatory po under Act 3753. Ito yung the Civil Registry Law. At kinakailangan po ito, number one, primarily as a proof of legal identity. At pangalawa po, ang lahat po ng mga registrable documents ay kailangang ipasa sa PSA at nagsisilbi ang mga certified copies na ini-issue po ng aming tanggapan bilang pagpapatunay at sa pag-transact sa iba't ibang government or private na transactions.

00:53:53.550 --> 00:54:00.430
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bangit niyo po na kinakailangan itong mga dokumentong ito sa mga transactions. Ano naman po itong mga transactions na ito?

00:54:01.450 --> 00:54:27.280
Marizza B. Grande: Karaniwan po sa pag-request ng mga civil registry documents, ang mga purpose po nila ay either ito ay gamit sa pag-enroll, school enrollment, pag-a-apply sa trabaho or passport, at iba pang pag nag-a-apply po sila ng mga valid identification card. at saka iba-iba pang purposes po para sa mga personal na transactions sa gobyerno o kaya sa private po.

00:54:27.580 --> 00:54:36.900
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina po, Ms. Grande, may inilahad kayo na four-phase process. Ano naman po ang inyong personal na participation dito sa prosesong ito?

00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:57.900
Marizza B. Grande: Bilang Assistant National Statistician, ako po yung nag-supervise ng Civil Registration Service. Ang lahat po ng requests at gayon din po yung pag- Yung mga draft reply at official na certification at verification results ay dumadaan po sa aking kamay for review.

00:54:58.260 --> 00:55:11.900
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon Ms. Grande, paano naman po ine-ensure ng PSA o tinitiyak ng PSA na ang mga resulta ng verification ay accurate or tumpak?

00:55:12.590 --> 00:55:55.250
Marizza B. Grande: So ang PSA Civil Registration Service po ay mayroong mga standard na procedure sa pagbe-verify ng lahat po ng requests coming from government agencies kasama na dito yung legislative bodies and judiciary at meron po kaming unit na in-charge po dito yung Request Verification and Services Processing Unit or RSVPU. na siya po nagbe-verify batay po sa mga information na binigay as against po dun sa record na sa aming database. At bago po ilabas yung official reply, gayon din po yung mga certifications ay dumadaan po ito sa iba't ibang layer po ng review.

00:55:57.420 --> 00:56:15.720
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande, nabanggit mo rin kanina na may mga requests na nagmumula sa Legislative Branch. Ngayon Ms. Grande, kung iyong maaalala at kung meron man, ano-ano itong mga requests na natanggap ng PSA mula sa Legislative Branch noong December or noong 2024?

00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:24.160
Marizza B. Grande: Sometime po in November and December, meron po kaming nareceive na letter request from the Honorable

00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:31.540
Marizza B. Grande: Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through its chairperson, Jewel Chua.

00:56:32.260 --> 00:56:35.080
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tungkol saan naman po itong mga requests na ito?

00:56:36.040 --> 00:56:44.700
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung request para i-verify kung may civil registry document ang isang Mary Grace Piatos.

00:56:45.020 --> 00:56:48.160
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At paano naman po kayo pamilyar sa mga requests na ito?

00:56:48.700 --> 00:56:59.790
Marizza B. Grande: As binanggit ko po kanina, yung mga requests at yung mga official reply ay dumadaan po sa akin sa pagre-review po.

00:56:59.970 --> 00:57:09.180
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, punta tayo dun sa November 2024 request. Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng inyong verification?

00:57:10.340 --> 00:57:13.060
Marizza B. Grande: Alinsunod dun sa request sa November 2024.

00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:28.010
Marizza B. Grande: Base po doon sa information na ibinigay at sa aming pong database. Wala pong record ng kapanganakan, walang record ng kasal, at wala rin pong record ng kamatayan ang isang Mary Grace Piatos po.

00:57:28.170 --> 00:57:35.530
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po ang ginawa ng PSA pagkatapos magresulta ng negative ang inyong verification?

00:57:36.330 --> 00:57:56.110
Marizza B. Grande: Ang aming pong opisina through Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa ay... nag-submit po, nag-issue ng letter plus certification dated November 5, 2024 sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through Honorable Chua po.

00:57:57.300 --> 00:58:18.460
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, at this point, may we request for continuing authority to confront the witness with the documents that she would mention, she mentioned and she would mention in the course of this proceedings, Your Honor, and At the same time, a continuing authority to flash on the screen the relevant portions of those documents.

00:58:19.460 --> 00:58:30.620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Granted, and insofar as assisting counsel approaching the witness, similar authority is granted to counsel for the panel of prosecutors to also assign assisting counsel to approach the witness.

00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:31.600
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor.

00:58:31.720 --> 00:58:32.280
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, Counsel.

00:58:32.540 --> 00:58:51.950
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, Ms. Grande, pinapakita namin sa inyo ang isang letter na may petsang November 20... 5-20-24 na may kalakip na certification na may kaparehong petsa. Ano ho ang kaugnayan ng mga dokumentong ito dun sa letter at certification na inyong nabanggit kanina?

00:58:54.060 --> 00:59:04.100
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung binabanggit ko po na reply letter po ng PSA dated November 25, 2024 at ang certification po na in-issue namin.

00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:22.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we respectfully manifest that the witness was shown and has identified the letter and certification both dated November 25, 2024 which our prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-A and P-I-24-A-1 respectively.

00:59:29.830 --> 00:59:39.630
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, saan po dito sa certification makikita ang verification results ninyo sa isang nag-angalang Mary Grace Piatos?

00:59:40.030 --> 00:59:51.490
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po ay makita dun sa certification na nag-iisa pong pahina kung saan naka-indicate po dito yung bawat resulta ng aming verification per type of document.

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:00.580
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Nevertheless, Your Honor,

01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:26.840
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: I think these are matters stipulated by the parties already, Your Honor. Particularly in the offer of stipulation, item number 13, Your Honor, we have already stipulated the defense for that matter that the signatures appearing on documents are signatures of the PSA officials whose names appear thereon, Your Honor. Just a humble suggestion, Your Honor. Maybe this can contribute to abbreviate the presentation of attorney May.

01:00:26.980 --> 01:00:27.420
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes,

01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:38.600
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor. That's the reason, Your Honor, we already dispensed with the identification of the signatures, Your Honor. But I will be propounding questions relating to this document, Your Honor. That's why this document is being flashed on the screen.

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:42.740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The comment of attorney Justin is noted. You may proceed, counsel.

01:00:43.790 --> 01:00:57.070
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande, dito sa certification na ito, particularly dyan sa table, may makikitang COLB, Negative Record of Birth in the PSA CRS Database. Ano po ba ang ibig sabihin nito?

01:00:57.350 --> 01:01:08.030
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ibig pong sabihin nito, base po sa information na Mary Grace Piatos, wala pong record of birth. na nakita sa aming po PSA database.

01:01:08.590 --> 01:01:17.570
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kasunod naman po yan, meron ding makikitang COM negative record of marriage in the PSA CRS database. Ano po bang ibig sabihin yan?

01:01:17.870 --> 01:01:26.650
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ibig sabihin po nito, based po sa CRS database, wala pong record of marriage si Mary Grace Piatos.

01:01:27.470 --> 01:01:36.750
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At last, meron din pong nakasaad dyan na COD negative record of death in the PSA CRS database. Ano po bang ibig sabihin ito?

01:01:36.930 --> 01:01:45.030
Marizza B. Grande: Again po, based po sa information sa aming CRS database, wala pong record ng death si Mary Grace Piatos.

01:01:45.390 --> 01:01:54.890
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, sa makatwid, batay po sa verification ng PSA, ano pong masasabi ninyo tungkol sa records ni Mary Grace Piatos sa PSA?

01:01:55.640 --> 01:02:02.440
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa aming CRS database, wala pong nangangalang Mary Grace Piatos sa aming record.

01:02:03.280 --> 01:02:14.220
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon Miss Grande, pumunta naman po tayo dun sa request na sinasabing ninyong natanggap ng PSA noong December 2024. Ano po ba itong mga requests na ito?

01:02:15.200 --> 01:02:28.870
Marizza B. Grande: Nakatanggap po kami ng another request na may dalawang set ng listahan na pinabe-verify po ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

01:02:29.110 --> 01:02:33.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bali Ms. Grande, ilan pong request ang natanggap ninyo noong December 2024?

01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:38.450
Marizza B. Grande: Dalawa po itong letter request ma'am, December 5 and December 8.

01:02:38.680 --> 01:02:41.180
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sino po? Kanino po nanggaling ang request?

01:02:41.720 --> 01:02:51.440
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po ay galing sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through its Chairperson, Honorable [unclear] po.

01:02:57.100 --> 01:03:14.470
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, for the record, the letters referred to by the witness is prosecutions. Exhibit P or our prosecution's exhibits P-I-24-B and P-I-24-D respectively.

01:03:16.030 --> 01:03:20.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon Ms. Grande, tungkol saan naman po ang mga requests na inyong natanggap?

01:03:20.490 --> 01:03:35.090
Marizza B. Grande: Ang request po ay para i-verify ang existence ng mga civil registry documents ng listahan. Yung una po, ito po yung 677 na DepEd Payees po.

01:03:38.030 --> 01:03:46.650
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po yung pangalawang listahan na inyong nabanggit? Sabi niyo po kanina may dalawang listahan nakalakip dun sa dalawang requests, letter requests na inyong natanggap.

01:03:47.270 --> 01:03:58.470
Marizza B. Grande: Yung isa po ay para naman po i-verify yung mga existence ng civil registry documents ng OVP list of payees na nasa 1,992.

01:03:59.780 --> 01:04:08.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po ang ginawa ng PSA matapos matanggap ang dalawang letter requests na may kalakip na dalawang listahan na inyong nabanggit?

01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:22.160
Marizza B. Grande: Following po nung standard procedure po namin, gamit ang mga information na ibinigay, ito po ay vinerify as against dun sa records po sa aming PSA database po.

01:04:22.940 --> 01:04:29.300
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Miss Grande, kapag sinasabi po ninyong binerify, Ano po mismo ang ginagawa ng PSA?

01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:43.200
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa listahan na binigay ng mga pangalan, isa-isa namin po hinanap ito sa aming database. Gamit yun sa birth records at saka yung marriage at saka yung death records po.

01:04:43.460 --> 01:04:50.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bakit po ba importante na isama sa pag-check ninyo or pag-verify ang marriage records?

01:04:51.570 --> 01:05:06.650
Marizza B. Grande: Una po, meron din po kasing mga information na nagbabago na yung mga surname. Halimbawa kung married na, so tinignan din po namin po ito. At saka yung mga nagpapakasal para matrace din po kung may existence ng civil registry records.

01:05:06.930 --> 01:05:11.150
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At bakit nyo naman po sinama sa inyong pag-verify ang mga death records?

01:05:11.690 --> 01:05:28.560
Marizza B. Grande: Aside from the fact na hiningi po ito ng committee, gusto rin po natin makita na may kopya ng death certificate. Kung maaari dahil meron din pong mga hindi nakarehistro na birth certificate pero may kopya ng death certificate.

01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:32.700
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman pong naging resulta ng verification ng PSA?

01:05:33.180 --> 01:05:57.270
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa mga certification na in-issue po namin dated December 9 and dated December 11, if I may request po your honor na... to check doon sa summary tables which we prepared to be able to share with you the accurate information nung tabulation na ginawa namin sa verification po.

01:05:57.270 --> 01:05:57.790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You

01:05:57.790 --> 01:05:57.990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may

01:05:57.990 --> 01:05:58.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: refer

01:05:58.430 --> 01:06:00.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to the document, Ms. Grande.

01:06:01.110 --> 01:06:07.030
Marizza B. Grande: I made the summary table, Your Honor, nung lahat po ng results nung mga verification po namin.

01:06:08.230 --> 01:06:12.730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may refer to that table, counsel. Attorney Grande, rather. Rather, Ms. Grande.

01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:18.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting counsel may approach at any time.

01:06:19.810 --> 01:06:29.390
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we will also be requesting the marking of Ms. Grande's summary as Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-H.

01:06:29.810 --> 01:06:32.890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This has not yet been previously marked, Atty. May.

01:06:32.890 --> 01:06:33.530
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Not yet, Your Honor.

01:06:34.170 --> 01:06:37.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Do you have a copy, Atty. May?

01:06:37.850 --> 01:06:42.990
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Sorry, the copy is with the witness, Your Honor, Ms. Grande.

01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:46.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Madami ba yan, Ms. Grande?

01:06:47.350 --> 01:06:59.570
Marizza B. Grande: Actually sir, your honor, the summary table contains three pages but the actual information are also printed for reference.

01:07:00.070 --> 01:07:00.670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

01:07:00.770 --> 01:07:05.110
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I saw that. So three pages.

01:07:05.630 --> 01:07:06.470
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your honor.

01:07:07.130 --> 01:07:08.510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, attorney Justin.

01:07:08.750 --> 01:07:15.570
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, your honor. The defense would just like to put on the record that we do not have copies of the summaries that is being

01:07:17.700 --> 01:07:20.900
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: testified upon or produced by the witness for today, Your Honor.

01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:28.380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Neither do we, counsel. Kindly furnish us with a copy, Attorney May, later on, during the break, perhaps, during the lunch recess.

01:07:28.620 --> 01:07:29.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We will do that, Your Honor.

01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:34.200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Your Honor. Also, counsel, for the respondent, Attorney May. Please proceed.

01:07:37.160 --> 01:07:56.120
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa verifications po namin, dun sa 677 na listahan ng [unclear], out of the 677 po, nakita namin na 398 po dito ay walang record ng kapanganakan, walang record ng kasal or kamatayan.

01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:06.300
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano pa po ang naging resulta kung meron man? O ano pa po ba ang ibang inininyong nahanap dun sa inyong verification kung meron man?

01:08:07.520 --> 01:08:21.540
Marizza B. Grande: Doon naman po sa Certificate of Live Birth, 405 po dito ay walang record of birth, 443 ay walang record of marriage, at 507 po ay walang death records.

01:08:22.250 --> 01:08:28.570
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pagkatapos po ng inyong verification, ano naman po ang opisyal na hakbang na ginawa ng PSA kung meron man?

01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:49.580
Marizza B. Grande: The PSA po, through the Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa, ay nagpadala po ng letter and certification that reflects all the results of our verification to the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability po. Dated December 8, 2024.

01:08:50.380 --> 01:08:50.820
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your

01:08:50.820 --> 01:09:10.440
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Honor, for the record. The documents identified by the witness, particularly the letter dated December 8, 2024, and certification dated December 8, 2024, are prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-C and P-I-24-C-1.

01:09:11.850 --> 01:09:41.080
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande, kabilang po dito sa 677 supposed payees, Nakalista sa certification na ito na may petsang December 8, 2024, makikita ang pangalang Jason Ramos sa page 56. Ano po ang resulta ng verification para sa pangalang ito?

01:09:45.720 --> 01:10:11.700
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa verification sa CRS database po, si Jason Ramos ay... Meron pong 907 na most likely match records of births in the PSA database. At meron din po siyang 305 most likely match records of marriage and 53 most likely match records of death in the PSA database.

01:10:12.100 --> 01:10:18.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: [unclear], simple terms, ano po ang ibig sabihin kapag ang isang pangalan ay maraming most likely match records?

01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:31.420
Marizza B. Grande: based po sa verification sa database, meron pong tumutugma sa ganyang pangalan na dalawa or higit pa sa aming database.

01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:40.020
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ano naman pong significance niyan relative to that particular name? In this case, the name Jason Ramos.

01:10:40.280 --> 01:10:54.520
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ibig pong sabihin, ang pangalan na Jason Ramos ay common name na nagre-resulta sa Maraming several records sa aming database na ibig sabihin pwedeng is two or more na persons po.

01:10:55.340 --> 01:11:04.540
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tingnan naman po natin ang pangalang Abigail Deomampo na makikita rin sa certification na inyong in-identify.

01:11:06.340 --> 01:11:17.010
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa result ng aming verification po, si Abigail Deomampo ay may isang Most likely match record po na nasa CRS database.

01:11:17.290 --> 01:11:25.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In simple terms naman, Ms. Grande, ano po ang ibig sabihin kapag iisa lamang ang most likely match record para sa isang pangalan?

01:11:25.850 --> 01:11:39.350
Marizza B. Grande: Ibig pong sabihin, out of the 143 million na birth records po na nasa database, meron po nag-iisang record pertaining to Abigail Deomampo sa CRS database po.

01:11:39.470 --> 01:11:49.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman pong kahalagahan yan? In relation to that particular name, in this case, Abigail Deomampo.

01:11:49.630 --> 01:12:01.270
Marizza B. Grande: Ibig sabihin po ay nag-iisa na record ang nasa CRS database. Kumbaga ito po ay unique record po or single match na nasa database.

01:12:02.910 --> 01:12:09.430
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi niyo po, nabanggit niyo po yung single match or single match and single match. Ano naman pong ibig sabihin yan?

01:12:10.470 --> 01:12:25.730
Marizza B. Grande: Ang single match entry, as I've mentioned po, ay unique record na may exact na information such as that, yung example si Abigail Deomampo. So, nag-iisang Abigail Deomampo na birth record ang nag-i-exist sa CRS database po.

01:12:26.310 --> 01:12:33.790
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Maliban po sa single match entry, ano pa po ba ang ibang pwedeng maging resulta kung meron man ng inyong verification?

01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:58.610
Marizza B. Grande: [unclear] po yung pwedeng results ng aming verification. So aside from the single match na binanggit ko po, yung multiple matches na yung kagaya po kanina. And the other one po yung no record o yung tinatawag namin na negative record sa database, which means wala pong nage-exist na record sa aming pong database.

01:12:59.130 --> 01:13:07.930
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, pumunta naman po tayo dun sa nabanggit niyong second list na kalakip nung letters na natanggap ninyo nung December.

01:13:09.700 --> 01:13:13.340
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng verification niyo?

01:13:13.850 --> 01:13:51.110
Marizza B. Grande: So following our standard procedure po ay nagpadala po ang PSA ng letter dated December 11 at Kasama po dito yung mga certifications na results ng aming verification. And ito po yung summary ng mga aming verification. Out of the 1,992 na listahan ng OVP list of payees, ay nakita natin na 1,287 po ang walang record of birth, walang record of marriage or death na nasa database po.

01:13:53.620 --> 01:13:59.340
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano pa po ba ang ibang naging resulta ng inyong pagkahanap or verification kung mayroon man?

01:13:59.500 --> 01:14:17.680
Marizza B. Grande: Out of the 1,992 po, 1,322 ang wala pong record ng birth, 1,456 naman po ang walang record of marriage, at 1,593 po ang walang record of death po.

01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:41.670
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina po, Ms. Grande, nabanggit nyo rin at pinalawanag ninyo na ang verification ay maaaring magresulta either in a multiple matched entry, single matched entry, or no record entry. Doon po sa inyong pag-verify or base sa mga requests na inyong natanggap, ilang single matched entry po ang inyong vinerify?

01:14:43.230 --> 01:14:51.150
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa na-receive namin na request, nasa 152 po yung aming [unclear] na single match entry.

01:14:51.770 --> 01:14:58.410
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Ngayon po, ano naman po yung naging official na action ng PSA matapos makumpleto ang verification?

01:14:59.240 --> 01:15:07.520
Marizza B. Grande: So, pagkatapos po ng verification, kami po ay nagpadala ng letter request sa committee.

01:15:09.530 --> 01:15:33.550
Marizza B. Grande: But before that po ay ni-review namin yung mga results as I've mentioned a while ago. Part of the review is pinagbasihan dun sa mga RSVPU na log sheet versus the certification and further re-verification conducted po sa CRS database for some names na medyo unusual po siya.

01:15:38.060 --> 01:16:05.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, kanina may nabanggit kang certification. or certifications, nalawang certification na nag-reflect or nagpapakita ng mga resulta ng inyong verification sa mga supposed DepEd and OVP payees. Ngayon, in the process of your verification, ikaw po personally, ano pang hakbang ang inyong ginawa kung mayroon man?

01:16:06.020 --> 01:16:15.880
Marizza B. Grande: As I've mentioned po, ako po ay nag-re-verify some of the names listed which I find na unusual doon po sa mga certifications po.

01:16:16.060 --> 01:16:21.960
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bakit niyo po nasabi na unusual yung mga pangalan na inyong re-verify?

01:16:22.550 --> 01:16:36.210
Marizza B. Grande: Nag-run through lang po ako doon sa mga listahan and I find it unusual because unique po yung mga names po na ito and conducted a re-verification using the database po.

01:16:36.830 --> 01:16:43.030
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano po ba itong mga pangalan na nabanggit nyo? You found unusual.

01:16:43.710 --> 01:17:05.580
Marizza B. Grande: Yung naalala ko po dito, yung pangalan nila Arthur Baon, Beverly Claire Pampano. So yung mga pangalan po na yun, [unclear], si Charles Sampaloc Jr., ilan lang po sa mga pangalan na tinignan po. Kasama din po dito yung kay Maxine Callos.

01:17:06.900 --> 01:17:28.730
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, may I invite your attention to the screen. May papakita ko sa inyong iba't ibang mga pangalan. Ang una ay ang pangalang Arthur Baon. Ano po ang kinalaman nitong Arthur Bao na ito sa mga pangalang sinabi ninyo kanina na sa tingin nyo ay unusual?

01:17:29.730 --> 01:17:37.910
Marizza B. Grande: Isa po siya sa benerify namin at based po sa CRS database, wala pong kopya ng birth, marriage, or death certificate.

01:17:38.580 --> 01:18:01.870
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, punta naman tayo sa susunod na pangalan. I request the tech booth. Ngayon, pinapakita ko sa inyong pangalang Ralph Josh. Bacon, ano naman po ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina that you found unusual?

01:18:02.990 --> 01:18:13.950
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa benerify po namin under [unclear] at wala rin po siyang record ng birth marriage or death certificate po.

01:18:14.660 --> 01:18:27.200
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Susunod, pinapakita ko naman sa inyo ang pangalang Beverly Claire Pampano. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina?

01:18:28.310 --> 01:18:38.470
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama rin po sila sa Bineripay ko na pangalan na under po sa OVP list at wala pong record ng birth, marriage, and death certificate po.

01:18:39.940 --> 01:18:49.870
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Mathew N. Keso. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nito dun sa mga pangalang nabanggit ninyo kanina?

01:18:50.670 --> 01:18:58.770
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama rin po dun sa verification at nag-resulta po siya ng no record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death.

01:18:59.370 --> 01:19:09.390
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang susunod naman po ay ang pangalang Maxine Callos. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan nito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina?

01:19:10.280 --> 01:19:20.700
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa OVP list of payees at nagdisulta po ng verification na walang record of birth, walang record of marriage, at walang record of death.

01:19:22.530 --> 01:19:33.440
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Susunod ay ang pangalang Charles Sampaloc Jr. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nito? Pangalang ito, dun sa mga pangalang na mention nyo kanina.

01:19:33.820 --> 01:19:40.550
Marizza B. Grande: Isa rin po yan sa benerify ko na wala pong record of birth. No record of marriage at no record of death po.

01:19:40.890 --> 01:19:45.310
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Saan po makikita yung mga verification results na binabanggit ninyo?

01:19:46.070 --> 01:19:53.490
Marizza B. Grande: Ito pong mga pangalan po na ito ay nasa listahan po ng OVP list doon sa 1,992 po.

01:19:53.930 --> 01:20:01.930
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Maliban po doon sa mga pangalang nabanggit ninyo na, ano pa po ba kung meron man ang ibang pangalang nakakuha ng inyong attention for being unusual?

01:20:02.770 --> 01:20:05.970
Marizza B. Grande: Ang nare-recall ko po yung dalawang...

01:20:07.960 --> 01:20:11.020
Marizza B. Grande: Xiaome Ocho, and Dan Rick Otso.

01:20:11.120 --> 01:20:25.470
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let me again invite your attention to the screen. Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Xiaome Ocho. Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito sa mga pangalang binanggit, dun sa dalawang pangalang binanggit ninyo?

01:20:25.630 --> 01:20:33.630
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama po siya sa listahan ng OVP Payees po na walang record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death po.

01:20:34.980 --> 01:20:48.040
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Susunod ay ang pangalang Dan Rick Otso. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman ng pangalang ito dun sa dalawang pangalang nabanggit ninyo?

01:20:48.540 --> 01:20:55.300
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po ito sa binerify ko na wala pong record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death po.

01:20:56.250 --> 01:21:07.510
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Ms. Grande, maliban dyan sa mga pangalang inyong nabanggit na ano pa kung meron man ang mga pangalan na nakakuha ng inyong pansin o nakaagaw ng inyong pansin bilang unusual?

01:21:08.410 --> 01:21:17.890
Marizza B. Grande: Ang nare-recall ko po yung tatlong pangalan, yung Toman Panda, Timon Angelo Pusa, at saka yung Tina Maching.

01:21:18.470 --> 01:21:29.230
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, ngayon pinapakita ko ulit sa inyo sa screen. Kung maaari nyo lang pong tingnan ang screen, ang pangalang Toman Panda. Ano po bang kinalaman ang pangalang ito sa mga pangalang binanggit nyo, kakabanggit nyo lang?

01:21:29.870 --> 01:21:36.330
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa binerify na walang record of birth, no record of marriage, and no record of death.

01:21:37.460 --> 01:21:50.360
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Susunod po ang pangalang Timon Angelo Pusa. Ano naman pong kinalaman nito sa mga pangalang kakabanggit nyo lang?

01:21:50.720 --> 01:21:56.320
Marizza B. Grande: Isa rin po yan sa binerify namin na walang birth, walang marriage at walang death certificate po.

01:21:56.690 --> 01:22:08.100
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At last ay ang pangalang Tina Maching. Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan nito sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo?

01:22:08.570 --> 01:22:14.990
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya dun sa binerify namin sa listahan na wala pong record ng birth, marriage, at death certificate.

01:22:16.760 --> 01:22:33.740
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, matapos ang naunang verification ng PSA sa mga pangalang lumabas sa DEPED at OVP list of supposed payees, ano pa po ba ang ibang request na natanggap ng PSA kung meron man mula sa House of Representatives?

01:22:34.650 --> 01:22:47.310
Marizza B. Grande: Nag-send po ang House of Representatives ng isa pa pong letter addressed to our Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa noong June 25, 2026 po.

01:22:47.910 --> 01:22:50.870
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tungkol saan naman po itong letter request na ito?

01:22:50.970 --> 01:23:14.850
Marizza B. Grande: Ang letter po na ito ay mula sa chairperson ng lead public prosecutor. Ang nire-request po niya na i-re-verify. yung mga previously civil registry documents na may single match entry doon po sa na-verify po namin at mag-issue ng certified copies ng mga civil registry documents.

01:23:14.930 --> 01:23:17.930
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Paano po kayo pamilyar dito sa dokumentong ito?

01:23:18.670 --> 01:23:34.210
Marizza B. Grande: Again po, as Assistant National Statistician, I supervise po yung RSVPU and yung mga requests including yung mga certifications and the official reply po ay dumaan po sa akin for review po.

01:23:34.570 --> 01:23:47.110
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ipinapakita namin sa inyo ang isang letter dated June 25, 2026. Ano po ba ang kaugnayan nitong letter na ito dun sa letter na inyong nabanggit?

01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:53.160
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung binabanggit ko po na letter, ma'am.

01:23:53.580 --> 01:24:02.140
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, for the record, the witness just identified Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-G-5.

01:24:10.370 --> 01:24:30.750
Marizza B. Grande: Following po yung standard procedure po namin, kami po ay nag-re-verify nung mga nasa listahan na single match entry as provided po doon sa annexes po. And we issued certified copies ng mga corresponding na civil registry documents generated from the system po.

01:24:42.150 --> 01:24:45.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry, Your Honor. Can I just have a minute to confer with my co-counsel?

01:24:46.020 --> 01:24:47.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so, counsel.

01:25:07.730 --> 01:25:21.800
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina na, banggit niyo po na nag-issue kayo. ng certified true copies of documents bilang response dun sa letter request. Maliban po dun sa mga certified true copies, ano po ba ang in-issue pa ng PSA kung mayroon man?

01:25:22.920 --> 01:25:31.480
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama po dito yung resulta nung verification ng single match entry na mga marriage certificate po.

01:25:31.480 --> 01:25:37.140
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Saan po nakapaloob itong resulta? Ang verification ng single match entry.

01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:57.200
Marizza B. Grande: Ang PSA po through Undersecretary Mapa ay nagawa ng official reply dated June 26, 2026 kasama po yung mga listahan ng verification ng mga results po namin and some omnibus certifications po.

01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:37.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, pinapakita namin sa inyo. Ang isang letter na may petsang June 26, 2026 at may naka-attach na list of recipients with available civil registry documents at mga certified true copies ng iba-iba ang mga dokumento. Ano po ang kinalaman o kaugnayan nitong mga dokumentong ito doon sa nabanggit ninyong letter, omnibus certification at certified copies of documents?

01:26:41.930 --> 01:26:55.760
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung official reply po ng PSA kasama yung mga list of recipients at yung mga omnibus certifications. Ito naman po yung mga...

01:26:55.760 --> 01:27:42.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: For the record, Your Honor, the witness just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-G, P-I-24-G-1, P-I-24-G-3, P-I-24-G-2, And P-I-24-G-4. Miss Grande, dun po sa letter at certification or letter at list of recipients with available civil registry documents na inyong in-identify kanina, meron din pong nakalakip na iba't ibang certified true copies. Ano pong kinalaman itong mga certified true copies na ito sa mga certified true copies na binanggit ninyo kanina?

01:27:43.430 --> 01:27:55.430
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po mga certified copies po, ito yung mga generate po na results ng aming verification based dun po sa single match entry na nirequest po ng committee po.

01:27:56.270 --> 01:28:23.340
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, for the record, the witnesses identified prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-G-1-OVP to P-I-24-G-137-OVP. and P-I-24-G-1-DE, P-I-24-G-61-DE.

01:28:23.900 --> 01:28:24.740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted.

01:28:25.180 --> 01:28:50.730
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Again, Ms. Grande, I am inviting your attention to the screen. Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Adonis Mascarinas. Ano po ba ang kinalaman or nakaugnayan nitong pangalang Adonis Mascarinas? Doon sa mga pangalang ni-re-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 2026 request.

01:28:51.190 --> 01:29:03.410
Marizza B. Grande: Si Adonis Mascarinas ay isa po sa listahan na may single match entry under the OBP list po at meron po kaming in-issue na marriage certificate po.

01:29:06.600 --> 01:29:27.810
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang sunod ay pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Anselmo Sta. Cruz. Ano rin po bang? Ikaugnayan ng pangalang ito dun sa mga nire-verify ninyo in relation to the June 25, 2026 request.

01:29:28.310 --> 01:29:40.650
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po si Anselmo Sta. Cruz sa may available na marriage certificate na in-issue po ng PSA under the OVP list na listahan po.

01:29:41.150 --> 01:29:55.180
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sunod, pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Joel Mataflorida. Ano rin po ba ang kaugnayan nitong pangalang ito sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 25, 2026 request?

01:29:56.220 --> 01:30:04.400
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama po si Joel Mataflorida doon po sa listahan ng DepEd na meron pong kopya din ng marriage certificate.

01:30:06.180 --> 01:30:15.260
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sunod, pinapakita ko rin sa inyo ang pangalang Paulo Fernan. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman ng pangalang ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo?

01:30:16.120 --> 01:30:25.680
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa listahan ng DepEd list na may kopya na na-generate sa CRS database na marriage certificate po.

01:30:25.940 --> 01:30:38.920
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At panghuli? Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Ramil Dabon. Ano po bang kinalaman itong pangalang ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo in relation to the June 25, 2026 request?

01:30:39.700 --> 01:30:49.660
Marizza B. Grande: Si Ramil Dabon po ay kasama din po sa listahan ng DepEd at meron po siyang kopya ng marriage certificate na in-issue ng PSA.

01:30:49.840 --> 01:31:19.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Your Honor, for the record, the witness just identified prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-G-2-OVP P-I-24-G-13-OVP P-I-24-G-24-DE P-I-24-G-45-DE P-I-24-G-47-DE

01:31:24.180 --> 01:31:31.640
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Bukod po sa mga nabanggit na ninyong request, ano pa po bang ibang request ang natanggap ng PSA mula sa House of Representatives?

01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:49.120
Marizza B. Grande: Meron din pong letter addressed to our Undersecretary Mapa dated June 15, 2026, again from the House Committee on Justice through its lead prosecutor, Public Prosecutor, Honorable Gerville Luistro po.

01:31:49.320 --> 01:31:51.820
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tungkol saan naman po ang request na ito?

01:31:52.300 --> 01:32:09.380
Marizza B. Grande: Yung letter po na ito ay nagre-request para i-verify ng PSA yung mga single match, actually re-verify din po, re-verify the single match entries na may mga kopya ng birth, marriage, and or death certificate po.

01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:13.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At paano din po ulit kayo naging pamilyar dito sa letter na ito?

01:32:14.100 --> 01:32:27.420
Marizza B. Grande: Again po as ANS po, Assistant National Statistician, dumaan po yun sa akin for review yung mga requests including yung mga official reply and certifications as part of my duties po.

01:32:28.020 --> 01:32:38.100
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, Ms. Grande, pinapakita po namin ulit sa inyo ang isang letter dated June 15, 2026.

01:32:40.210 --> 01:32:45.210
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano po bang kinalaman ng letter na ito dun sa letter request na nabanggit ninyo?

01:32:45.810 --> 01:32:48.110
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung letter na sinabi ko nga.

01:32:50.130 --> 01:33:04.070
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, the witness, Ms. Grande, just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-F-1. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ano naman pong naging tugon ng PSA dito sa letter request na ito?

01:33:05.130 --> 01:33:30.620
Marizza B. Grande: Kami po ay nag-re-verify sa database based po dun sa mga binigay na single match na listahan at Ang aming Undersecretary Mapa ay nagpadala ng reply, sulat, dated June 19 kasama po yung listahan ng mga results ng aming verification and certified copies po ng mga documents.

01:33:31.180 --> 01:33:34.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng inyong re-verification?

01:33:36.180 --> 01:34:03.890
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dito sa re-verification namin ng single match entry, nakita po namin na Doon sa mga pangalan under the OVP ay meron pong mga talaan kung saan may records na po ng mga kamatayan or death certificates po. At 32 po ay nakita namin na mga official death certificates sa mga pangalan po na yun.

01:34:04.210 --> 01:34:12.190
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Ano pa po ba ang naging ibang resulta kung mayroon man? Nabanggit ninyo ang resulta relative to the OVP list.

01:34:13.050 --> 01:34:24.330
Marizza B. Grande: Yung isang listahan po na pertaining po doon sa DepEd list naman, meron pong lima na official na death certificate na nakita po namin sa CRS database.

01:34:26.220 --> 01:34:26.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Miss

01:34:27.110 --> 01:34:43.440
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Grande, nabanggit ninyo na based on your re-verification, 32 sa mga pangalan sa OVP list of recipients at 5 naman sa mga pangalan. DepEd list of recipients ay may kaukulang certificate of death. Ano po ibig sabihin ito?

01:34:44.020 --> 01:34:59.100
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ibig pong sabihin ito ma'am, doon sa mga may single match entry na binerify po namin, 37 po ang nasa talaan na may official na pong record ng kamatayan or death certificate sa PSA database.

01:34:59.540 --> 01:35:14.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At nabanggit niyo rin kanina na bilang tugon dun sa request, letter request, nagpadala kayo ng letter Sa House of Representatives na may kasamang table of verification results pati ng certified true copies.

01:35:15.650 --> 01:35:32.210
Marizza B. Grande: Tama po ma'am. So ang Undersecretary Mapa po nag-issue ng letter dated June 19, 2026 kasama po yung mga table of verification list na listahan at yung mga certified copies ng mga civil registry documents.

01:35:33.010 --> 01:35:50.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta muna po tayo sa letter. May pinapakita po kami. Letter sa inyo na may petsang June 19, 2026. Ano po ba ang kinalaman ng letter na ito dun sa letter na binanggit ninyo naging tugon ng PSA sa request ng House of Representatives?

01:35:51.460 --> 01:35:53.680
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung letter na binabanggit ko po, ma'am.

01:35:53.860 --> 01:35:54.380
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You

01:35:54.380 --> 01:36:01.220
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: honor the witness, Ms. Grande, just identified, Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-F.

01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:10.780
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May na-mention din po kayo na table of verification results. Pinapakita ko po sa inyo ang

01:36:13.440 --> 01:36:25.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: isang table of verification results. Ano po bang kinalaman nito dun sa table of verification results na sinabi ninyo kalakip ng letter na pinadala ninyo sa House of Representatives.

01:36:26.260 --> 01:36:35.800
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung results po ng aming verification na may single match entries both dun po sa OVP list at saka yung sa DepEd na payees po.

01:36:38.450 --> 01:36:50.110
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At may pinapakita din po kaming certified true copies ng mga documents. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman o kaugnayan ng mga certified true copies na ito dun sa certified true copies na nabanggit ninyo kanina?

01:36:51.890 --> 01:37:07.050
Marizza B. Grande: Ito po yung mga certified copies in security paper na in-issue po ng PSA based po sa results ng verification namin ng mga single match entry na ni-request po ng committee po.

01:37:07.130 --> 01:37:12.290
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, Ms. Grande, paano po ba na-generate itong certified true copies na ito?

01:37:12.860 --> 01:37:20.420
Marizza B. Grande: Dine-generate po ito based dun sa official records na naka-store po sa aming PSA database po.

01:37:20.540 --> 01:37:28.420
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ano naman pong kaugnayan nitong certified true copies na ito at nung table of verification results na in-identify ninyo kanina?

01:37:28.780 --> 01:37:37.340
Marizza B. Grande: Ito pong mga certified copies ng civil registry documents ay nagsusupport po doon sa result verification list na nasa table po.

01:37:38.390 --> 01:38:08.010
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Your Honor, for the record, for the Certified true copies that the witness just identified. These are prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-F-1-OVP to P-I-24-F-63-OVP and P-I-24-F-1-DE to P-I-24-F-14-DE.

01:38:08.310 --> 01:38:13.420
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, with the indulgence of the counsel for Prosecution.

01:38:13.440 --> 01:38:14.160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Justin,

01:38:14.220 --> 01:38:22.360
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: may we just be able to request for copies of these documents, Your Honor? The defense do not have copies of these documents.

01:38:22.540 --> 01:38:37.340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly furnish after this afternoon's trial, kindly furnish the defense with a copy. If you have similarly marked documents, kindly furnish the prosecution as well.

01:38:37.860 --> 01:38:42.340
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, if I may be clarified, these are not The common exhibits, Your Honor.

01:38:42.380 --> 01:38:43.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: These are not common exhibits.

01:38:43.620 --> 01:38:54.180
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And further, Your Honor, may we request copies of these documents and the letters, Your Honor, those identified since, of course, we will need to inspect these for cross-examination, Your Honor.

01:38:54.480 --> 01:38:59.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Of course. Counsel, kindly furnish them with a copy if you haven't yet.

01:38:59.780 --> 01:39:00.800
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you so much, Your Honor.

01:39:00.820 --> 01:39:03.240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: These are the letters written by PSA, right?

01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:04.400
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, Your Honor.

01:39:04.500 --> 01:39:05.040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ms. Grande?

01:39:05.700 --> 01:39:06.300
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

01:39:06.500 --> 01:39:17.640
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, to be specific, Your Honor. We're just referring to those issued by the lead prosecutor in 2026, Your Honor.

01:39:17.700 --> 01:39:18.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The letter requests?

01:39:18.740 --> 01:39:25.120
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. And the corresponding reply of the PSA, Your Honor. We already have copies of those in relation to 2024, Your Honor.

01:39:25.220 --> 01:39:27.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Kindly do so, Attorney Mae.

01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:29.200
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

01:39:29.300 --> 01:39:30.360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed, Attorney Mae.

01:39:30.660 --> 01:39:34.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Again, Ms. Grande, may I invite your attention to the screen?

01:39:36.680 --> 01:39:43.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May papakita po muli. Ako sa inyo, mga pangalan. Simulan po natin sa pangalang Fortunato Salig.

01:39:49.900 --> 01:39:56.560
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong Fortunato Salig na ito doon sa mga nire-verify ng PSA?

01:39:57.850 --> 01:40:12.410
Marizza B. Grande: Si Fortunato Salig po ay isa sa na-verify namin na may single match entry at nakita namin sa talaan sa civil registry na siya po ay may death certificate at patay na.

01:40:14.760 --> 01:40:21.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pinapakita ko rin sa inyo ang certificate of death pertaining to one Fortunato Salig.

01:40:24.180 --> 01:40:31.940
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman pong impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng pagkamatay ni Fortunato Salig ang lumalabas sa certificate na iyan?

01:40:34.290 --> 01:40:41.470
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa death certificate ni Fortunato Salig, siya ay namatay noong June 29, 2011 po.

01:40:42.790 --> 01:40:48.830
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At base rin po sa death certificate, Ano po ba ang cause ng pagkamatay ni Fortunato Salig?

01:40:49.210 --> 01:41:00.450
Marizza B. Grande: Ayon po sa kanyang death certificate, ang cause of death ay uncal herniation, antecedent cause, cerebrovascular disease, probably hemorrhagic.

01:41:02.320 --> 01:41:06.340
Marizza B. Grande: Ang other causes po dito ay community acquired pneumonia.

01:41:06.900 --> 01:41:12.620
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Emilio Sagan.

01:41:16.240 --> 01:41:21.920
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman pong naging resulta or ano pong kinalaman itong pangalan na ito sa mga pangalang ni-reverify ng PSA?

01:41:22.160 --> 01:41:35.880
Marizza B. Grande: Si Emilio Sagan ay isa rin po dun sa nakita namin na single match entry at based po sa CRS database, siya po ay patay na sa pamamagitan po ng death certificate po na ito.

01:41:36.690 --> 01:41:52.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, pinapakita rin po namin sa inyo ang certificate of death ng isang Emilio Sagan. Dito po sa death certificate na ito, Ano po bang impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng pagkamatay ng Emilio Sagan na yan ang lumalabas sa Certificate of Death?

01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:59.880
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa kanyang death certificate, si Emilio Sagan ay namatay po noong July 28, 2015.

01:42:00.660 --> 01:42:03.900
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ano naman ang naging sanhi ng kanyang pagkamatay?

01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:11.680
Marizza B. Grande: Sa medical certificate po niya, ang kamatayan ay dahil sa cardiopulmonary arrest, secondary to aspiration,

01:42:14.460 --> 01:42:19.140
Marizza B. Grande: secondary to massive hemoptysis, secondary to pneumonia po.

01:42:19.900 --> 01:42:25.800
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Rodolfo P. Traya.

01:42:28.350 --> 01:42:36.050
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman o kaugnayan nitong Rodolfo P. Traya na ito sa mga pangalang nire-verify ng PSA?

01:42:37.370 --> 01:42:41.710
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa binerify namin na may kopya ng death certificate.

01:42:43.570 --> 01:42:54.390
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pinapakita rin po namin sa inyo ang certificate of death ng isang Rodolfo Traya. Ano pong impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng kanyang pagkamatay ang makikita o lumalabas sa death certificate?

01:42:55.550 --> 01:43:00.650
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa death certificate, si Rodolfo Traya ay namatay po noong May 4, 2021.

01:43:02.420 --> 01:43:23.450
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, for the record, the death certificates identified by the witness are Prosecutions Exhibits P-I-24-F-26-OVP. P-I-24-F-20-OVP and P-I-24-F-58-OVP respectively.

01:43:24.170 --> 01:43:34.010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted. With the indulgence of counsel, Ms. Grande, sabi mo si Rodolfo Traya ay namatay?

01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:35.940
Marizza B. Grande: Yes.

01:43:35.960 --> 01:43:36.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tama ba?

01:43:36.680 --> 01:43:39.880
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor. Based dito sa death certificate.

01:43:40.140 --> 01:43:44.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi ba dapat ang sinasabi mo, mayroong Rodolfo Traya na namatay?

01:43:44.940 --> 01:43:46.220
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. Sorry po.

01:43:46.400 --> 01:44:04.850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dahil hindi mo naman alam kung siya talaga yun eh. Pero base sa talaan niyo, may ganung pangalan na namatay, pinanganak, o kinasal, pero hindi niyo alam kung siya din yun o hindi na nakalagay dun sa acknowledgement receipt o dun sa pinagbasihan ng pangalan.

01:44:05.560 --> 01:44:10.180
Marizza B. Grande: Your Honor, based po dun sa death certificate, may Rodolfo Traya na namatay.

01:44:10.260 --> 01:44:15.520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Merong Rodolfo Traya, pero hindi si Rodolfo Traya. Thank you. Counsel, you may proceed.

01:44:17.120 --> 01:44:35.000
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina, just a clarification, Ms. Grande. Kanina, sinabi ninyo na yung verification ay maaaring mag-resulta into either a single matched entry, multiple matched entry, and no record entry. Dito po sa kay...

01:44:38.100 --> 01:44:43.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Rodolfo Traya. Ano po yung naging resulta ng verification ninyo dun sa tatlo?

01:44:43.900 --> 01:44:49.580
Marizza B. Grande: Si Rodolfo Traya ay may single match na document po ng death certificate.

01:44:52.360 --> 01:45:07.130
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Base rin po dun sa mga certificates of death or sa certificate of death ni Emilio Sagan na inyong in-identify kanina. Ilang taong patay na po ba si Emilio Sagan noong taong 2022?

01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:15.080
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa death certificate po siya, nung 2022 siya ay 7 years old.

01:45:16.110 --> 01:45:16.750
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ilang

01:45:16.750 --> 01:45:17.030
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: taon po

01:45:17.030 --> 01:45:18.090
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: na po siyang patay?

01:45:18.930 --> 01:45:21.130
Marizza B. Grande: 7 years.

01:45:22.100 --> 01:45:23.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo.

01:45:23.400 --> 01:45:26.480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ms. Grande, 7 years old siya nung namatay o 7 taon nang patay?

01:45:26.680 --> 01:45:30.360
Marizza B. Grande: 7 years nang namatay noong 2022.

01:45:31.620 --> 01:45:32.680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney Mae.

01:45:36.830 --> 01:45:38.450
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Anong edad ni...

01:45:40.220 --> 01:45:42.300
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Emilio Sagan nung namatay siya ng 2022.

01:45:42.420 --> 01:45:44.640
Marizza B. Grande: Siya po ay 49 years old po.

01:45:44.940 --> 01:45:46.080
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 49 years.

01:45:47.070 --> 01:45:56.830
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman tayo sa Certificate of Death ni Fortunato Salig. Batay po dyan sa Certificate of Death na yan. Ilang taon ang patay si Fortunato Salig noong 2022?

01:45:58.800 --> 01:46:02.150
Marizza B. Grande: 11 years po noong 2022.

01:46:05.550 --> 01:46:16.990
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Miss Grande, maliban sa mga binanggit nating pangalan, Ilan pa basis sa certification or sa verification niyo ang nahanap na single matched entry na may death certificate?

01:46:17.890 --> 01:46:22.670
Marizza B. Grande: Meron pa po balit 34 na may death certificate po.

01:46:24.460 --> 01:46:42.490
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, sinabi mo na nag-request ng re-verification ng mga single matched entries ang House of Representatives noong June 25, 2026. Matapos makumpleto ang re-verification na ito, Ano pa ang naging mga resulta kung mayroon man?

01:46:42.850 --> 01:47:08.490
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa June 26 na verification po namin nakita rin namin that as per record meron pong 20 na menor de edad doon po sa OVP list at doon naman po sa DepEd list based on record po meron pong 5 na menor de edad based sa kanilang mga birth certificates po.

01:47:09.150 --> 01:47:14.170
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman pong ginawa ng PSA matapos itong re-verification na ito?

01:47:14.850 --> 01:47:30.450
Marizza B. Grande: Following po yung standard protocol po, kami ay nagpadala ng sulat at ng official ng mga certifications at certified copies ng mga documents sa Committee on Justice through the Public Prosecutor Team po.

01:47:30.770 --> 01:47:34.270
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: By the way, Ms. Grande, let's just backtrack a bit. Medyo...

01:47:36.640 --> 01:47:48.400
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Naka-ago pansin lang sa akin yung mga sinabi mo, mga taong namatay na. Sa pagkakawari mo, Ms. Grande, ano po kayo mga informasyon ang maibigay nitong mga patay ng tao na ito noong 2022?

01:47:49.460 --> 01:47:52.120
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Objection, Your Honor. Speculative, Your Honor.

01:47:52.500 --> 01:47:54.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sustained. Move on, counsel.

01:47:56.240 --> 01:47:59.800
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Balik po ulit tayo dun sa request ng inyong verification.

01:48:10.550 --> 01:48:25.130
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano po ang ginawa nitong PSA? Matapos i-conduct yung re-verification na nagresulta sa pagkakahanap ninyo ng mga minors base sa talaan na ibinigay ng House of Representatives.

01:48:26.090 --> 01:48:45.730
Marizza B. Grande: So kagaya po nung binanggit ko following yung standard verification, nag-issue po kami ng letter and yung listahan ng mga verified results ng aming verification at gayon din po yung mga certified copies ng mga civil registry documents based po doon sa resulta ng aming verification.

01:48:46.270 --> 01:49:42.180
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, just for the record, this letter list of Names and certified copies of civil registry documents were already identified by the witness earlier. These are prosecution's exhibits P-I-24-G, P-I-24-G-1, P-I-24-G-3, P-I-24-G-2, P-I-24-G-4, T-I-24-G-1-OVP to P-I-24-G-65-OVP and P-I-24-G-1-DE to P-I-24-G-61-GE. Ngayon, Ms. Grande,

01:49:42.320 --> 01:49:44.440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted, Ms. Mae.

01:49:44.440 --> 01:49:46.680
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you your honor. May I again invite your attention

01:49:47.540 --> 01:50:10.610
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: To the screen. May pinapakita po ulit ako sa inyo mga pangalan. Magsimula po tayo sa pangalang Miko Alquizar. Ano po bang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 25, 2026 letter request na nagmula sa House of Representatives.

01:50:11.730 --> 01:50:21.980
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po siya sa binerify po namin ng single match entry po. Si Miko Alquizar at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate.

01:50:22.400 --> 01:50:33.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At base po sa birth certificate nitong Miko Alquizar, ano po ang kanyang kalagayan nung ginawa ninyo ang verification?

01:50:44.290 --> 01:51:00.110
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Or let me rephrase the question, Your Honor. Base sa certificate or sa death certificate nitong si Miko Alquizar, sorry, birth certificate ni Miko Alquizar, Ilang taon na siya?

01:51:03.610 --> 01:51:04.710
Marizza B. Grande: Si Miko

01:51:04.710 --> 01:51:05.490
Marizza B. Grande: Alquizar po

01:51:05.490 --> 01:51:09.230
Marizza B. Grande: ay pinanganak noong June 11, 2022.

01:51:13.270 --> 01:51:15.690
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So ilang taon na po siya noong 2022?

01:51:16.590 --> 01:51:17.750
Marizza B. Grande: Isang taon po.

01:51:19.030 --> 01:51:35.130
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Beatrice Cuenca. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo? in relation to the June 25, 2026 request.

01:51:45.360 --> 01:51:53.940
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama rin po siya sa listahan na binerify namin under the OVP list at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate.

01:51:54.380 --> 01:52:02.120
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Base po sa kanyang birth certificate, ano ang kanyang araw ng kapanganakan?

01:52:02.420 --> 01:52:03.180
Marizza B. Grande: Si

01:52:03.310 --> 01:52:06.810
Marizza B. Grande: Beatrice Cuenca po ay pinanganak noong January 7, 2022.

01:52:08.670 --> 01:52:18.580
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: January 7, 2022. Kung gayon, Ms. Grande, ilang taon na itong Beatrice Cuenca noong 2023?

01:52:21.020 --> 01:52:22.880
Marizza B. Grande: Mga one-year-old pa siguro siya.

01:52:22.940 --> 01:52:33.160
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: One-year-old? Sa pagkawari mo, Ms. Grande, ano kayang impormasyon ang maibibigay nitong one-year-old na si Beatrice Cuenca sa OVP or sa DepEd?

01:52:39.280 --> 01:52:40.260
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, speculative.

01:52:41.790 --> 01:52:47.970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If she knows, counsel, and the Chair will follow up with the question in a bit.

01:52:48.280 --> 01:52:48.860
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor.

01:52:48.860 --> 01:52:50.060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Miss Grande, would you know?

01:52:52.610 --> 01:52:56.190
Marizza B. Grande: Well, one year old po, Your Honor, so...

01:52:57.030 --> 01:53:10.150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then, I have to ask then, you're basing your testimony, Miss Grande, on your records, yung certificate of live birth, not on the acknowledgement receipt.

01:53:11.210 --> 01:53:12.130
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, Your Honor.

01:53:12.290 --> 01:53:18.690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, you're testifying na merong pangalan na... Sorry, Miss May, Attorney

01:53:18.690 --> 01:53:19.510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May, what's your first name?

01:53:20.980 --> 01:53:21.940
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Beatrice Cuenca.

01:53:22.380 --> 01:53:34.120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, tumetestigo po kayo na base sa talaan ninyo, sa CRS ninyo, meron pong Beatrice Cuenca na pinanganak ng 2022 na one-year-old.

01:53:36.240 --> 01:53:42.140
Marizza B. Grande: Your Honor, yes po. Base lang po ako sa record, Your Honor, so I cannot speculate.

01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:49.800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would you know if it's the same Beatrice Cuenca that signed that document? Would you be in a position to answer?

01:53:50.960 --> 01:53:51.920
Marizza B. Grande: No, sir.

01:53:53.040 --> 01:53:57.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, rightfully so, ma'am, because you're with the PSA. Please proceed, Attorney Mae.

01:53:57.680 --> 01:54:15.530
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Again, just a clarification, Ms. Grande. Ano po ang naging resulta? Sinabi niyo kanina, yung verification may result into either single match entry, multiple match entry, and no record entry. Dito po kay Beatrice Cuenca, ano pong naging resulta ng inyong verification?

01:54:18.380 --> 01:54:28.640
Marizza B. Grande: Beatrice Cuenca po ay single match entry at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate. May record po ang Beatrice Cuenca na siya po ay minor pa.

01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:47.870
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Mikay de los Reyes. Ano rin po bang kinalaman itong Mikay de los Reyes na ito doon sa mga pangalang ni-re-verify ninyo in relation to the June? 25-2026 request.

01:54:49.770 --> 01:54:59.170
Marizza B. Grande: Kasama din po sa pangalan na Mikay de los Reyes. Na-verify namin under the OVP list na may kopya ng birth record as per the PSA po.

01:55:00.340 --> 01:55:14.940
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At base rin po dyan sa kanyang certificate of death, ilang taon na po ba si Mikay de los Reyes? Or base sa kanyang birth certificate, ano po ba ang araw ng kapanganakan ni Mikay de los Reyes?

01:55:15.200 --> 01:55:16.560
Marizza B. Grande: January 13, 2020.

01:55:17.770 --> 01:55:26.910
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung gayon, dahil pinanganak siya ng January 13, 2020, ilang taon na po ba itong si Mikay de los Reyes noong 2023?

01:55:27.770 --> 01:55:28.890
Marizza B. Grande: Three years old.

01:55:30.130 --> 01:55:36.770
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po ang confidential information kaya na maibibigay ng isang three-year-old na si Mikay de los Reyes noong 2023?

01:55:37.310 --> 01:55:38.410
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Same objection, Your Honor.

01:55:38.650 --> 01:55:40.230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I would have to sustain, counsel.

01:55:41.150 --> 01:56:04.460
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the witness just identified Prosecutions Exhibit P. Exhibits P-I-24-G-66-OVP, P-I-24-G-67-OVP, P-I-24-G-22-OVP, respectively.

01:56:07.470 --> 01:56:08.610
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms. Grande.

01:56:08.630 --> 01:56:11.640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted. You'll wind up before lunch, right?

01:56:11.740 --> 01:56:12.020
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor.

01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:14.760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Because you're about to finish, I presume, Attorney Mae.

01:56:14.860 --> 01:56:15.440
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor.

01:56:17.650 --> 01:56:18.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ms.

01:56:18.330 --> 01:56:27.110
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Grande, base po. Doon sa inyong verification ng mga minor de edad, sino po ang pinakabata noong 2023?

01:56:28.390 --> 01:56:34.230
Marizza B. Grande: Doon po sa records na binerify namin, ang pinakabata ay si Marlin Sunga.

01:56:35.050 --> 01:56:44.050
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At base po doon sa inyong verification, ilang taon po itong si Marlin Sunga in 2023?

01:56:47.150 --> 01:56:52.530
Marizza B. Grande: Based po kasi sa death certificate po niya, two months pa lang ay namatay na po siya.

01:56:53.110 --> 01:56:57.950
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Two months? Ano naman po kayang confidential information na mabibigay nitong Marlin Sunga?

01:56:58.250 --> 01:57:00.130
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Objection, Your Honor. The same ground, Your Honor.

01:57:00.390 --> 01:57:01.510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You know it, Counsel.

01:57:02.250 --> 01:57:05.300
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Just trying, Your Honor.

01:57:08.570 --> 01:57:09.050
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At

01:57:13.790 --> 01:57:17.790
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: itong si Marlin Sunga, Ms. Grande, anong status niya ngayon?

01:57:18.810 --> 01:57:26.050
Marizza B. Grande: As per the record po, ay merong kopya ng death certificate po. na nakatala sa CRS database po.

01:57:29.580 --> 01:57:36.990
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We are showing you, we will be showing you the death certificate of Miss, of a certain Marlin Sunga.

01:57:52.500 --> 01:57:57.580
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Base po sa kanyang death certificate, kailan po namatay itong si Marlin Sunga?

01:57:58.300 --> 01:58:02.880
Marizza B. Grande: Si Marlin Sunga ay namatay November 2, 1965.

01:58:04.600 --> 01:58:07.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: November 2, 1965.

01:58:08.650 --> 01:58:10.390
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So kung gayon, Miss Grande,

01:58:11.970 --> 01:58:15.410
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Gaano o ilang taon nang patay itong si Marlin Sunga noong 2023?

01:58:16.930 --> 01:58:19.390
Marizza B. Grande: About 57 years.

01:58:20.190 --> 01:58:22.470
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So in short, Miss Grande.

01:58:22.910 --> 01:58:24.050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mamali yung math niyo.

01:58:24.790 --> 01:58:25.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 69

01:58:25.390 --> 01:58:30.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ako pinanganak, 57 ako ngayon taon na to eh. Kung 65 yan, mas matagal pa.

01:58:33.530 --> 01:58:35.850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dagdagan mo ma'am ng 4 years.

01:58:38.810 --> 01:58:39.410
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 61.

01:58:40.480 --> 01:58:41.000
Marizza B. Grande: 61.

01:58:41.260 --> 01:58:54.840
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So kung gayon, Ms. Grande, itong si Marlin Sunga, noong 2023, ang taon ang diumanoy nagkabayaran ng confidential funds, hindi lamang siya 61 years ng patay, siya rin ay 2 months old lamang. Tama ba?

01:58:55.340 --> 01:58:57.580
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Objection, Your Honor. Calls for an opinion.

01:58:58.220 --> 01:58:59.200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on, counsel.

01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:08.760
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Last. Your Honor, the witness just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-F-41.

01:59:10.880 --> 01:59:14.360
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Finally, Ms. Grande, pakitingnan lang po yung screen.

01:59:19.030 --> 01:59:35.490
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Inapakita ko po sa inyo ang isang summary ng mga resulta ng isinagawang verification ng PSA. Gaano po katumpak o ka-accurate ang buod or summary na ito kumpara sa mga resultang nakasaad sa certification na inyo nang kinilala.

01:59:37.440 --> 01:59:51.660
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa mga pangalan na ibinigay sa PSA na aming po binerify at sa aming po verification at sa summary tabulation po kanina, ang mga information po na ito ay 100% accurate. Tumpak po.

01:59:52.410 --> 01:59:54.790
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: That would be all for your direct examination, Your Honor.

01:59:55.010 --> 01:59:58.010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You want to cross now, Attorney Justin, or after lunch?

01:59:58.190 --> 02:00:02.320
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: After lunch, Your Honor. We also reiterate our request for the documents.

02:00:02.320 --> 02:00:05.940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, over lunch, Attorney Mae, can you give them a copy of the documents you requested?

02:00:06.360 --> 02:00:06.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor.

02:00:06.940 --> 02:00:19.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We still have a couple of minutes. Would any senator-judge wish to make an intervention to make the most use of our time? Senator-Judge Raffy may avail of his time to interject.

02:00:24.460 --> 02:00:27.340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

02:00:27.900 --> 02:00:32.420
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Actually, Mr. Presiding Officer, more on the manifestation nito sa akin.

02:00:32.640 --> 02:00:34.380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, what would it be, Senator-Judge?

02:00:35.800 --> 02:00:46.480
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Sa akin, in my humble opinion, aliases lang itong mga ginamit nila at yung mga nagkakatugma-tugma sa mga birth certificate, yun ay tsamba lamang.

02:00:48.000 --> 02:02:21.020
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Ang sa akin lamang, kasi napapansin ko, yung mga signatures doon sa mga Pagung, Pusa, kung sino-sino pa. Magkakapare-pareho. So ibig sabihin isang tao lang po ipirma. At saka isang handwriting lang doon sa mga pangalan. So for me, it's really important na mapatawag dito yung Lachica at saka yung counterpart ng Lachica sa DepEd para sila talaga yung may kinalaman doon sa pagbibigay ng mga pangalan na yan. And I'm very sure, Mr. Presiding Officer, habang [unclear]. Ginagawa tayong mga kenkoy, yung tao dyan sa [unclear] OVP. Ang tanong ko lang, last, sa prosecution. Okay, granting, sabi nga nung sa PSA, may mga pangalan doon nagmamatch, special mga newborn. Okay, hindi nyo ba pinaluap, pinuntahan yung mga magulang noon? Baka maaari yung mga magulang nun ang pumirma doon. Lalo yung mga 2 years old, diba may 1 year old, 2 years old. So did you not guys, did they follow up and trace or track down the parents or guardians of these 1 or 2 years old na mga bata para to confirm kung baka sila nga talaga involved sa DepEd, baka mga empleyado to ng DepEd or ng OVP?

02:02:21.640 --> 02:02:31.900
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: To be candid, Your Honor, we did not, Your Honor, because we do not know the whereabouts of these people, Your Honor. And given the limited time, Your Honor, we could not track their...

02:02:31.900 --> 02:02:56.260
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Walang address sa LTO or sa PhilHealth, sa GSIS or any government agencies for that matter na they might have a record on that. Maybe these persons, okay. Maybe yung mga tao po, Mr. Presiding Officer, na kung saan yung mga bata. May mga nakalist ng mga bata. Maybe yung mga magulang noon ay empleyado ng DepEd or OVP.

02:02:57.900 --> 02:03:23.520
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: It's possible na ginamit nilang pangalan ng kanilang mga anak. But take note ano, even the military, even the NBI, even the PNP, gumagamit siguro sila ng aliases para sa kanilang mga informants. So I don't see anything different. para dito sa DepEd at ka-OVP. Kaya lang, [unclear] ginagamit ng mga alias, Pusa, Daga, [unclear] Pusa, Pagong, etc.

02:03:24.100 --> 02:03:58.980
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, if I may just quickly respond. Kung yan po, if such was the fact, Your Honor, then the defense should have at the earliest opportunity already indicated that in their answer. But they never did, Your Honor. So we worked on the theory that these are the real names of the supposed payees. That's why, Your Honor, we went through this whole exercise of verifying with the PSA. Because they never claimed that, Your Honor, they were again given the opportunity to raise that defense in their pre-trial order. But again, Your Honor, they never did.

02:03:59.420 --> 02:04:02.440
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, if the defense may be able to briefly respond.

02:04:03.020 --> 02:04:11.660
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the permission of Senator-Judge Tulfo, I am obligated to allow Attorney Justin to respond. Please, your comment, Attorney Justin.

02:04:12.080 --> 02:04:35.500
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: It has to be remembered, Your Honor, that in relation to Article 1, the basis of the prosecution is based on the findings of the Commission on Audit, Your Honor. And given that the findings of the Commission on Audit never pointed any problems in relation to the names in the acknowledgement receipts, much less the use of aliases, Your Honor, there was nothing to respond to with all due respect.

02:04:35.770 --> 02:04:40.250
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: With all due respect, Your Honor, if I can again just quickly respond to that, Your Honor. Quite the contrary, Your Honor.

02:04:40.250 --> 02:04:40.890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Mae.

02:04:40.950 --> 02:04:44.790
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We explicitly stated in the Articles of Incorporation

02:04:44.790 --> 02:04:45.770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Impeachment.

02:04:45.930 --> 02:04:53.650
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm sorry. Articles of Incorporation. Force of habit, Your Honor. In the Articles of Impeachment, Your Honor, particularly,

02:04:58.040 --> 02:05:00.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: particularly,

02:05:09.270 --> 02:05:55.600
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, in page 5 of the Articles of Impeachment, paragraph D, and I quote, The Philippine Statistics Authority certified that a significant number of individuals listed in acknowledgement receipts do not exist in official civil registry records. Of 677 names in DepEd receipts, at least 398 had no corresponding birth, death, or marriage records. Of 1,992 names in OVP receipts, At least 1,287 individuals could not be verified. Notably, names such as Mary Grace Piattos, Milky Secuya, and Kokoy Villamin have no records. They could

02:05:55.600 --> 02:05:55.780
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: have

02:05:55.780 --> 02:06:17.590
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: already addressed this in their answer, but they never raised that these are aliases. Now, assuming, Your Honor, that these are aliases, we respectfully submit that the use of the aliases if we consider the requirements under The anti-alias law, Your Honor, it's improper.

02:06:18.910 --> 02:06:21.710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You can end there, Attorney Mae. Final rejoinder, Attorney Justin.

02:06:22.090 --> 02:06:39.480
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, the fact remains at this point of the proceedings, and even at the time the articles of impeachment was filed, is that the prosecution had the burden of proof to explain and prove every allegation. If they are now claiming that these are aliases, the burden is with them, not with the defense.

02:06:43.360 --> 02:06:45.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's 12 o'clock, Atty.

02:06:45.260 --> 02:06:51.940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May. Besides, they made the denial with respect to the allegations of the impeachment complaint. So, I guess it is deemed

02:06:51.940 --> 02:06:52.340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: denied.

02:06:52.560 --> 02:06:55.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: If I may just quickly reply, Your Honor, please.

02:06:56.120 --> 02:06:59.460
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Then Your Honor, we will not stop. We will continue responding, Your Honor.

02:06:59.580 --> 02:07:01.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This will never end, Atty. Mae.

02:07:01.180 --> 02:07:03.520
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just a final point, Your Honor, please.

02:07:03.560 --> 02:07:04.180
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Last point na lang.

02:07:04.180 --> 02:07:07.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will recognize Senator Judge Tulfo, with your permission Attorney Mae.

02:07:07.140 --> 02:08:21.350
Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Granting each of those informants, they used different alias or aliases. Sabihin na natin na [unclear] silang mga alias tulad ng ginagawa sa PNP, sa NBI. Isa-isa sila pumunta doon sa kay Colonel Lachica, kung kanina man yung counterpart niya si DepEd, pumipirma. Ang hindi ko lang nagustuhan doon ay yung pare-pareho ang pirma. Pare-pareho yung handwriting sa different names. So doon may [unclear] makakalusot pa sa akin yung bang gagamit ng alias. Kasi nga naman siyempre as an informant, especially giving intelligence information or confidential information, siguro allowed sila na gumamit ng alias to protect their identity para hindi sila masunog, ika nga. Pero yung bang pirma ng bawat ng ilang mga informants po doon, Mr. Presiding Officer, pare-pareho. Tapos yung handwriting, yung [unclear] ng mga pangalan doon, pare-pareho. Ibig sabihin, isang tao lang ang [unclear] noon. So, yun ay very questionable for me. Maraming salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

02:08:21.390 --> 02:08:23.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Tulfo.

02:08:28.550 --> 02:08:35.210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, with the indulgence of counsels and senator-judges, we pause for lunch. We shall resume at 12.45.

02:08:35.890 --> 02:08:36.270
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: We

02:08:36.270 --> 02:08:36.750
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: submit your

02:08:36.750 --> 02:08:36.950
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: honor.

02:08:37.430 --> 02:08:38.250
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Trial is in recess.

02:56:39.120 --> 02:56:39.600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The

02:56:39.600 --> 02:56:45.680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: clerk of court is directed to once again bring the witness, Ms. Grande, to the witness stand.

02:57:07.140 --> 02:57:18.280
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Marizza, bago po tayo magpatuloy, naunawaan niyo [unclear] patuloy na magbibigay [unclear] inyong testimonya [unclear] niyo pong panunumpa na magsasabi ng katotohanan at pawang katotohanan lamang. Naunawaan niyo po yan?

02:57:18.740 --> 02:57:19.640
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor.

02:57:20.120 --> 02:57:25.640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Salamat po. Attorney Justin, your witness for your cross.

02:57:25.940 --> 02:57:31.240
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you, Your Honor. Turning to my cross, Your Honor. Magandang hapon po, Ms. Grande.

02:57:31.560 --> 02:57:32.720
Marizza B. Grande: Good afternoon, sir.

02:57:32.880 --> 02:57:43.740
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Ms. Grande, during your direct examination, you stated that you are the assistant national statistician of the Civil Registration Service of the PSA, correct?

02:57:44.140 --> 02:57:44.800
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:57:45.040 --> 02:57:53.920
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And in that position, Ms. Grande, this is not the first time that you testified under oath in relation to the impeachment of the Vice President, correct?

02:57:54.870 --> 02:57:55.730
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:57:55.870 --> 02:58:04.610
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You recall that you testified before the Committee of Justice of the House of Representatives back on April 14, 2026.

02:58:05.570 --> 02:58:06.190
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:58:06.410 --> 02:58:22.810
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay. And in that hearing, Ms. Grande, before the Committee on Justice, you confirmed, as you testified, that you are in charge of the verification, processing, and archiving of civil registry documents in the Philippine Statistics Authority or the PSA.

02:58:23.250 --> 02:58:24.130
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:58:24.480 --> 02:58:29.240
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And you are also in charge in the generation of vital statistics. Tama po ba?

02:58:29.380 --> 02:58:29.800
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:58:30.040 --> 02:58:31.960
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: At ilang taon na po kayo sa PSA?

02:58:32.760 --> 02:58:34.440
Marizza B. Grande: More than 25 years, sir.

02:58:34.920 --> 02:58:48.220
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay. Nung direct examination niyo po kay Atty. Mae, nag-identify po kayo ng ilan na mga PSA certifications. Yung tanong ko po, ito po yung mga resulta ng verification process na sinagawa ng PSA. Tama po ba?

02:58:48.620 --> 02:58:49.260
Marizza B. Grande: Tama, sir.

02:58:49.440 --> 02:58:58.520
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And this verification process that the PSA conducted used the Civil Registry System database of the PSA itself, correct?

02:58:58.920 --> 02:58:59.620
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:58:59.740 --> 02:59:13.040
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And the civil registry system database is considered as the centralized or national repository of all our civil registry documents in the Philippines. Tama po ba?

02:59:13.180 --> 02:59:13.980
Marizza B. Grande: Correct sir.

02:59:14.200 --> 02:59:22.120
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: At ang laman po nito ay ang mga sinusumite ng ating mga local civil registry offices. Tama?

02:59:22.520 --> 02:59:23.260
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:59:23.360 --> 02:59:25.880
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Kasama na po yung mga syariah courts natin. Tama?

02:59:26.300 --> 02:59:27.040
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po.

02:59:27.180 --> 02:59:31.100
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Kasama na rin po yung mga Philippine Foreign Service Posts natin. Tama?

02:59:31.500 --> 02:59:32.260
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

02:59:32.480 --> 02:59:42.150
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So, is it therefore correct to say, Ms. Grande, that the CRS database of our PSA relies on the submissions of these offices?

02:59:42.970 --> 02:59:44.110
Marizza B. Grande: That's correct, sir.

02:59:44.350 --> 02:59:56.810
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: In other words, once these offices submit civil registry documents or information to the PSA, The PSA then enters the information and documents in the database, correct?

02:59:57.090 --> 02:59:57.750
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

02:59:57.880 --> 03:00:01.680
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And this CRS database is an electronic database, would that be correct?

03:00:02.260 --> 03:00:03.000
Marizza B. Grande: Yes sir.

03:00:03.640 --> 03:00:14.880
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, the PSA does not conduct field investigations to verify whether all births in the country is registered. Tama po ba?

03:00:17.660 --> 03:00:26.880
Marizza B. Grande: Partly yes sir for the CRS but there are other like for example in the census. where we gather information on birth registration.

03:00:27.300 --> 03:00:39.240
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Allow me to repeat the question po, Ma'am Grande. Particularly for the CRS, does the PSA conduct field investigations to physically check whether rehestrado lahat ng mga births dito sa Pilipinas?

03:00:39.240 --> 03:00:40.580
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Already asked and answered, Your Honor.

03:00:40.800 --> 03:00:42.340
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, I'm just asking a clarification.

03:00:42.460 --> 03:00:46.080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness will answer. She did not answer clearly the first time.

03:00:46.790 --> 03:01:08.410
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. We rely on the submission of the local civil registry offices on the registration including the post and the sharia. But as the PSA is also in charge in the censuses, we get information also on the birth registration.

03:01:08.930 --> 03:01:23.200
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. And tama din po with respect to the CRS database. Hindi po nagko-conduct yung PSA natin ng field investigation to investigate whether all deaths, I'm referring to deaths, Atty. Mae, in the country is registered.

03:01:24.490 --> 03:01:32.950
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. We do study as to the completeness based on the available censuses and the vital statistics.

03:01:33.310 --> 03:01:33.810
Marizza B. Grande: So,

03:01:33.810 --> 03:01:35.150
Marizza B. Grande: estimate kami, sir.

03:01:35.310 --> 03:01:49.770
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Sorry, Ms. Grande, for interrupting you. But my next question is, and similarly, The PSA also does not conduct any field investigations in relation to the CRS database to physically check whether all marriages in the Philippines are recorded, correct?

03:01:50.500 --> 03:01:51.740
Marizza B. Grande: For that, sir, yes.

03:01:52.240 --> 03:01:59.060
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: But you do confirm, Ms. Grande, ma'am, na nagko-conduct po naman yung PSA ng mga registration programs?

03:01:59.860 --> 03:02:07.180
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. We have the birth registration assistance project we launched in February 2022.

03:02:07.880 --> 03:02:16.400
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. And the reason why we have these registration programs is because, admittedly, not all births are recorded in the Philippines. Tama po ba?

03:02:17.360 --> 03:02:29.160
Marizza B. Grande: Sir, yes. Registration is not universal. That's why we have programs to register all para sa universal civil registration.

03:02:29.520 --> 03:02:35.840
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Meron po ba tayong ginagawa na similar with respect to deaths? Nagre-registration program din po ba tayo?

03:02:36.610 --> 03:02:50.110
Marizza B. Grande: Mga IECs lang po because there are areas lang that we identified based on the census and in some of the indirect estimates na may low registration rates.

03:02:50.370 --> 03:02:56.690
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So you confirm based on the census available to the PSA that not all deaths in the country are also registered?

03:02:57.050 --> 03:03:03.890
Marizza B. Grande: Sorry sir, for the deaths po, indirect estimates meaning hindi po siya sa census. Sa census kasi birth registration lang po.

03:03:03.990 --> 03:03:13.310
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay, let me rephrase my question. Ma'am, so hindi po makukumperma ng PSA na recorded o rehistrado lahat ng pagkakamatay. Tama po ba?

03:03:13.590 --> 03:03:14.370
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:03:14.470 --> 03:03:22.830
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And in the same manner, the PSA hindi din kayang ikuperma kung lahat ng mga kasalan sa Pilipinas ay nakarehistrado sa sistema niyo. Tama po ba?

03:03:23.430 --> 03:03:24.690
Marizza B. Grande: Yes for now, sir.

03:03:25.030 --> 03:03:35.730
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. Now, so you confirm that it is possible that a certain birth did in fact occur but it is not registered in the CRS database.

03:03:36.730 --> 03:03:41.790
Marizza B. Grande: Based on the data po, there are births not registered.

03:03:41.990 --> 03:03:49.410
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And you do confirm that it is also possible that a death had in fact occurred but it is not registered in your database.

03:03:50.770 --> 03:04:00.870
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, there are deaths na unregistered but there are process also to reconstruct or to file the late registration.

03:04:01.150 --> 03:04:13.340
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Maraming salamat, ma'am. I'll take that answer. And you also confirm na posible din po, ma'am, na may marriage that was celebrated pero hindi rehistarado sa CRS database natin?

03:04:13.940 --> 03:04:14.800
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:04:15.020 --> 03:04:21.300
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay. Now, you do confirm, Ms. Grande, na meron din tayong cases na tinatawag na late registration. Tama po ba?

03:04:21.520 --> 03:04:22.200
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, ma'am.

03:04:22.220 --> 03:04:25.940
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Meron tayong late registration sa mga births or sa mga pagpanganag.

03:04:26.390 --> 03:04:26.870
Marizza B. Grande: Yes.

03:04:27.150 --> 03:04:31.570
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Meron din tayong mga late registration sa deaths or sa mga pagkamatay. Tama po ba?

03:04:31.710 --> 03:04:32.630
Marizza B. Grande: Tama po, Sir.

03:04:32.810 --> 03:04:39.090
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Meron din po tayong mga late registration sa marriages at sa mga kasalan na nangyayari. Tama po ba?

03:04:39.330 --> 03:04:39.970
Marizza B. Grande: Tama po.

03:04:40.190 --> 03:04:47.070
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And tama po ba na kapag hindi pa sila rehestrado kasi nga late, hindi din ito lalabas sa CRS database natin?

03:04:47.310 --> 03:04:48.070
Marizza B. Grande: Agree, Sir.

03:04:48.530 --> 03:05:01.370
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, next. You mentioned during your direct examination that in your verification process, You inputted the information provided by the House of Representatives. Tama po ba?

03:05:01.730 --> 03:05:02.490
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:05:02.650 --> 03:05:10.790
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. Now, my question now is in your verification process, tama po ba that clerical errors can also affect searches in your database?

03:05:12.090 --> 03:05:39.980
Marizza B. Grande: Not exactly, sir, because our CRS is designed in such a way that when you verify a particular record, makukuha mo pa rin yung Even though clerical error yung name and also those with similar sounds sa name or sa last name. Kaya ang sagot ko sir, not exactly dahil maka-capture mo pa rin sa system namin.

03:05:40.120 --> 03:05:41.240
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Pero it is possible, ma'am.

03:05:42.140 --> 03:05:43.700
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Already asked and answered, Your Honor.

03:05:43.840 --> 03:05:48.620
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: My question is different, Your Honor. I am confirming whether it is possible which is within the personal knowledge.

03:05:50.130 --> 03:06:37.450
Marizza B. Grande: Our RSO verifiers po, are following query parameters. So may iba-iba pong level yan. That all, for example, when you input a name, kahit po wrong yung spelling niya, all of the entries which is almost similar to that name will be provided. At isa-isahin po yun ng aming RSO verifier. So kaya yung sagot ko po doon is not exactly because Our system is parang flexible siya to provide you all the names. For example, yung Piatos, sir. All the Piatos na last name plus the M, for example, na name.

03:06:37.710 --> 03:06:55.550
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay, but in fact, Madam Witness, if you recall during the April 14, 2026 hearing before the Committee on Justice, do you recall having making this statement, and I quote, I cannot say na 100% accurate iyong negative results. Do you recall making that statement?

03:06:55.570 --> 03:07:03.630
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, may the witness be confronted with a particular portion of the TSN, Your Honor, so that the context of that statement...

03:07:03.900 --> 03:07:05.260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting counsel may approach.

03:07:05.500 --> 03:07:32.290
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Much obliged, Your Honor. For the record, Your Honor, we are flashing on the screen, defense exhibit D-1-123, particularly page 177 of the transcript of the stenographic notes. And defense exhibit D-1-123, which is the same, but page 178, Your Honor. For the record, Your Honor, we are flashing sliced photos of that document since they belong to different pages, Your Honor, for the easy reference of our court.

03:07:32.300 --> 03:07:43.910
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: [unclear] confirms, thank you for that copy, Counsel, because the copy I have, Natakpan ng certified true copy yung iyong negative results. I couldn't read it anymore. Yes, Ms. Grande. Do you confirm?

03:07:45.410 --> 03:08:00.460
Marizza B. Grande: I recall, sir, that they are inquiring on whether na-exhaust yung verification. And I think I said that we have exhausted based on the information that is provided.

03:08:01.600 --> 03:08:13.030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Let me counsel. Ms. Grande, you did not answer the question. The question was, do you recall making that statement that you have read, na hindi 100% accurate yung negative results?

03:08:13.430 --> 03:08:14.350
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

03:08:14.410 --> 03:08:30.600
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Let's proceed po, Ms. Grande. Now, let's go back to the certifications. During the House of Representatives committee hearing on April 14, tama po ba that you attended that hearing as a representative of Dr. Claire Dennis Mapa?

03:08:30.960 --> 03:08:31.520
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, po.

03:08:31.930 --> 03:08:38.730
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And he is currently the National Statistician and our Civil Registrar General of the Philippines, correct?

03:08:39.110 --> 03:08:39.770
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:08:39.970 --> 03:08:49.330
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, in that HORCOJ hearing on April 14, 2026, you submitted two copies of PSA certifications. Do you recall that?

03:08:50.200 --> 03:08:50.940
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:08:51.080 --> 03:08:57.840
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Particularly, these are the PSA certifications that Atty. Mae made you identify. The December 8, 2024, correct?

03:08:58.780 --> 03:08:59.300
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:08:59.400 --> 03:09:01.800
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And the December 11, 2024, correct?

03:09:02.420 --> 03:09:03.120
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:09:03.220 --> 03:09:12.840
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, these certifications were issued by the PSA as you mentioned upon the request of the House of Representatives Committee of Good Government and Public Accountability, correct?

03:09:13.280 --> 03:09:13.980
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:09:14.160 --> 03:09:20.020
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And this request was made by the fine gentleman on your right, Representative Joel Chua, correct?

03:09:20.700 --> 03:09:21.440
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:09:23.220 --> 03:09:27.960
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, these certifications also had cover letters, tama po ba?

03:09:28.980 --> 03:09:29.980
Marizza B. Grande: Tama po, sir.

03:09:30.140 --> 03:09:37.520
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Ito po yung mga cover letter na [unclear] at [unclear] ni Undersecretary [unclear] Mapa, correct?

03:09:38.080 --> 03:09:38.900
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:09:39.200 --> 03:09:58.280
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Puntahan po natin yung December 8, 2024 na cover letter to the certification dated December 8, 2024. You confirm that the same refers to, and I quote, Madam Grande, the request for verification of civil registry documents of 677 individuals.

03:10:05.230 --> 03:10:07.130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Zoom in to the relevant provisions.

03:10:07.130 --> 03:10:08.770
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor. And for the easy reference

03:10:08.770 --> 03:10:15.710
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: of the witness, Your Honor, for the record, we are also confronting the witness with Defense Exhibit D-1-97, Your Honor.

03:10:16.190 --> 03:10:21.970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. And can the tech please zoom in to the provision highlighted by Atty. Justin?

03:10:36.540 --> 03:10:39.880
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. This is the official reply of the PSA.

03:10:40.360 --> 03:10:44.680
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. For a while, Madam Grande. We're just asking the tech to zoom in.

03:10:52.200 --> 03:10:52.560
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: May

03:10:52.560 --> 03:10:53.420
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: I proceed, Your Honor?

03:10:53.580 --> 03:10:54.640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you may proceed, Counsel.

03:10:54.640 --> 03:10:56.300
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you, Your Honor. Turning back to my cross.

03:10:57.620 --> 03:11:03.080
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Ms. Grande, can you please read the last paragraph of that cover letter dated December 8, 2024?

03:11:05.160 --> 03:11:19.640
Marizza B. Grande: [unclear] omnibus certification with the results of verification on the documents of the listed individuals from the Philippine Statistics Authority Civil Registry System Database on the basis of the information provided for your reference.

03:11:20.080 --> 03:11:25.410
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay. Now that letter... mentions the quote on the basis of the information provided, correct?

03:11:25.830 --> 03:11:26.470
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:11:26.470 --> 03:11:26.830
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now,

03:11:26.870 --> 03:11:35.350
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: my question is, in relation to that certification dated December 8, 2024, who gave or who provided the PSA with that information?

03:11:36.280 --> 03:11:43.090
Marizza B. Grande: The list was provided by the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

03:11:43.390 --> 03:11:53.010
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Maraming salamat po, Ms. Grande. Puntahan na naman natin yung cover letter December 11, 2024. to the certification dated December 11, 2024.

03:11:59.500 --> 03:12:02.280
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: May we request the tech booth to please zoom.

03:12:03.840 --> 03:12:06.540
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Do you also have it with you, Madam Grande?

03:12:07.910 --> 03:12:08.650
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:12:11.830 --> 03:12:14.910
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now, it also contains the same last paragraph, correct?

03:12:16.100 --> 03:12:16.780
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, po.

03:12:16.880 --> 03:12:24.550
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. And again, the same question, who provided you with the information subject of that certification?

03:12:25.600 --> 03:12:28.880
Marizza B. Grande: It's the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

03:12:29.160 --> 03:12:36.280
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And you mentioned earlier when you answered me, nakabase po ito sa information, ito po yung listahan na binigay ng House of Representatives.

03:12:37.180 --> 03:12:37.960
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:12:38.200 --> 03:12:47.250
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So, am I correct that besides that list that was provided to you, the House of Representatives did not provide you with any other documents, correct?

03:12:47.810 --> 03:12:50.190
Marizza B. Grande: It's just the list, sir, and the letter request.

03:12:50.410 --> 03:13:01.480
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: It means that when the House of Representatives made this request to the Philippine Statistics Authority, it also did not furnish the PSA with the copies of the acknowledgement receipts, correct?

03:13:01.860 --> 03:13:02.420
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:13:02.760 --> 03:13:12.160
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So, apart from the list, and this is a different question, did the PSA use any other material in conducting its verification process using its CRS database?

03:13:13.080 --> 03:13:15.980
Marizza B. Grande: No, sir. We just used the list for the verification.

03:13:16.600 --> 03:13:31.630
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Maraming salamat po, Ms. Grande. Now, I went over those PSA certifications. And if you can look at the right portion thereof, may mga sinabing mga paragraphs na negative record. Tama po ba?

03:13:34.060 --> 03:13:34.920
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:13:35.100 --> 03:13:38.560
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Meron ding mga sinasabi na most likely match, correct?

03:13:39.360 --> 03:13:40.180
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:13:40.380 --> 03:13:45.940
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: At sinabi mo kanina kapag negative record, hindi nakita sa CRS database, correct?

03:13:46.260 --> 03:13:47.080
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:13:47.180 --> 03:13:52.440
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Kapag most likely match, pwedeng isa yung nag-match or single entry, correct?

03:13:52.950 --> 03:13:53.550
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: At

03:13:53.550 --> 03:13:56.590
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: marami yung nag-match multiple entry. Is that correct?

03:13:56.890 --> 03:13:57.230
Marizza B. Grande: Yes.

03:13:57.610 --> 03:14:10.150
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: However, you confirm, if makikita niyo po sa dokumento na yan, please confirm that these certifications do not say that the listed persons do not exist. You confirm that? Walang sinasabi dyan?

03:14:10.860 --> 03:14:19.300
Marizza B. Grande: Wala pong sinasabi sa certification namin about the existence, only the attestation as to the availability po ng records sa database.

03:14:19.680 --> 03:14:30.640
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So, my question now is, These certifications only say that particular names are not found in the CSR database. Yan lang po yung ibig sabihin yan.

03:14:30.820 --> 03:14:31.200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel,

03:14:31.280 --> 03:14:31.940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it's CRS.

03:14:31.940 --> 03:14:34.420
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: CRS. Pardon. And thank you, Your Honor, for correcting me.

03:14:37.590 --> 03:14:42.550
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir. It's only based sa verification namin in the CRS database.

03:14:42.550 --> 03:14:42.910
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And

03:14:42.910 --> 03:14:50.010
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: again, based on the information given by the House of Representatives, Committee of Good Government, and Public Accountability. Correct?

03:14:50.390 --> 03:14:50.910
Marizza B. Grande: Correct sir.

03:14:51.070 --> 03:15:00.410
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. So when the PSA certification state negative record ma'am, hindi na po siya nagsa-certify na walang tao na nag-exist na ganyan. Tama po ba?

03:15:01.990 --> 03:15:10.770
Marizza B. Grande: Again sir, I will repeat that we are testifying as to the availability po ng record and not as to the existence.

03:15:11.010 --> 03:15:18.070
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So to clarify, it only certifies that a particular name is not found in the CRS database. Correct?

03:15:18.450 --> 03:15:20.150
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And the

03:15:20.150 --> 03:15:27.190
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: PSA certifications, again, state nothing as to either the existence or non-existence of those persons. Correct?

03:15:28.290 --> 03:15:29.010
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now,

03:15:29.790 --> 03:15:30.870
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: puntahan po natin

03:15:30.870 --> 03:15:32.570
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: yung mga diniscuss

03:15:32.570 --> 03:15:41.630
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: mo na negative certifications. You will agree that the PSA also issues negative certifications in relation to birth, correct?

03:15:42.250 --> 03:15:42.970
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And

03:15:42.970 --> 03:15:49.210
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: the validity of those negative certifications, particularly on birth have time limitations correct?

03:15:49.890 --> 03:15:53.830
Marizza B. Grande: Just recently we issued the policy on that sir.

03:15:54.090 --> 03:16:04.210
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes and the policy is negative birth certificate negative certifications with relation to birth only has a validity of six months correct?

03:16:05.150 --> 03:16:09.730
Marizza B. Grande: Yes sir for the purpose of the registration for the delayed registration.

03:16:09.770 --> 03:16:15.310
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And you do confirm that there are birth certifications contained in the certification that you submitted?

03:16:17.200 --> 03:16:17.880
Marizza B. Grande: It

03:16:17.880 --> 03:16:21.040
Marizza B. Grande: included for the verification po sa House

03:16:21.040 --> 03:16:21.440
Marizza B. Grande: of Representatives.

03:16:27.840 --> 03:16:28.520
Marizza B. Grande: Based

03:16:28.650 --> 03:16:43.410
Marizza B. Grande: po dun sa re-verification namin in the December and then also in June of 2026. Since we conducted the verification, they have the same results.

03:16:43.910 --> 03:16:59.490
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: But my question is simple, Ms. Grande. Let's go to the 2026 certification. You will confirm that since that 2026 certification contains a birth certification of negative results, that is also still time-bound, correct?

03:17:00.660 --> 03:17:41.160
Marizza B. Grande: If I recall, sir, on the policy that we issued for the expiration of the negative certification, it's particularly for the delayed registration purposes ng individual persons. And this one, itong re-verification that we conducted specifically for this legal purpose of the impeachment hearing po. So, yun po yung differences nung dalawang certifications that we issued. As I can recall, yung policy is for the individual. yung negative certification with a validity of six months for the purpose of delayed [unclear].

03:17:41.460 --> 03:17:58.990
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Maraming salamat, Ms. Grande. I'll take that answer. Now, kanina, Ms. Grande, during your direct examination with Atty. Mae, pinakita po kayo ng mga pangalan. Mga pangalan na si [unclear], at iba pa. You recall that?

03:17:59.490 --> 03:18:00.150
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:18:00.230 --> 03:18:10.550
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: May pinakita na acknowledgement receipt sa isang banda, at sa isang banda naman po, Sa screen natin, may pinakita na record, civil registry document. Do you recall that?

03:18:10.790 --> 03:18:11.450
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:18:11.630 --> 03:18:20.260
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Ito po yung tanong ko. Nung binigay niyo po itong mga civil registry document ng mga taong nabanggit kanina, kinuha niyo po ba yung consent nila?

03:18:21.560 --> 03:18:26.280
Marizza B. Grande: For this particular request from the House of Representatives,

03:18:28.300 --> 03:18:37.940
Marizza B. Grande: We don't think na kailangan po ng consent ng individuals because the very purpose of this is the conduct already of an investigation.

03:18:38.280 --> 03:18:44.260
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Ma'am, hindi po yan yung tanong ko and I hope I'll be allowed to ask this again. Did you get the consent of those individuals?

03:18:44.660 --> 03:18:45.100
Marizza B. Grande: No, sir.

03:18:45.280 --> 03:18:52.420
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And are you aware that any information in a civil registry document is sensitive personal information?

03:18:53.440 --> 03:19:01.060
Marizza B. Grande: First, sir, there is already a procedures that we adopted in compliance to Data Privacy Act of 2020-2012.

03:19:01.060 --> 03:19:07.540
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So you are aware that any disclosure of personal sensitive information is a violation of the [unclear]? I am

03:19:07.540 --> 03:19:09.200
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: asking if the witness is aware, Your Honor.

03:19:09.200 --> 03:19:22.230
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The statement is misleading, Your Honor, because according to counsel... Mere disclosure of sensitive personal information would already amount to a violation of the Data Privacy Act.

03:19:22.390 --> 03:19:22.770
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But

03:19:22.770 --> 03:19:42.930
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: it's clear, Your Honor, there are certain exceptions to the prohibition against processing of sensitive personal information. Particularly applicable to this case, Your Honor, is paragraph F of section 13 of the Data Privacy Act, Your Honor, which allows processing of personal data information.

03:19:44.290 --> 03:19:44.730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Allowing

03:19:44.730 --> 03:19:45.110
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to finish,

03:19:45.190 --> 03:19:45.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel.

03:19:45.870 --> 03:19:54.850
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Relating to information that would help establish claims and defenses in legal proceedings, your honor.

03:19:54.850 --> 03:19:55.150
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: If

03:19:55.150 --> 03:19:56.250
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: I may be able to respond,

03:19:56.370 --> 03:19:56.690
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: your honor.

03:19:56.850 --> 03:20:07.010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let me ask the witness, counsel. Sa palagay po niya, Ms. Grande, bakit hindi niyo nilabag yung paglalabas ng impormasyon na hiniling ng camera?

03:20:08.540 --> 03:20:14.080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Base sa Data Privacy Act o base sa charter po ninyo mismo na dapat confidential yan?

03:20:14.900 --> 03:20:49.010
Marizza B. Grande: Based po sa Data Privacy Act sir, the same as mentioned by attorney, Section 13F. So if there's a legitimate purpose and Pwede po namin i-release po ito sa nagre-request na agency or individual. But most of the time po sir, yung mga ganitong cases po ay chine-check namin what is the legitimate purpose and then yung mga information that we provide, we determine that is proportionate doon sa nirequest po ng House of Committee.

03:20:49.090 --> 03:20:52.550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In this instance ma'am, ano yung legitimate purpose? Can you state it for the record?

03:20:53.620 --> 03:20:59.260
Marizza B. Grande: Doon po sa request po nila ay nakalagay po doon on the conduct of investigation po.

03:21:00.000 --> 03:21:01.540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Conduct of investigation.

03:21:02.120 --> 03:21:15.960
Marizza B. Grande: Yung first po na letter request, that's December 2024, specifically under the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, the purpose indicated is the ongoing investigation.

03:21:16.000 --> 03:21:16.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At sa

03:21:16.320 --> 03:21:18.740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: paniniwala nyo, exemption yan sa data privacy.

03:21:19.530 --> 03:21:33.950
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir. There is a policy that we adopt in the PSA that for any government agency or legislative as long as the legitimate purpose is indicated po ay pwede naming i-release yung information.

03:21:34.510 --> 03:21:35.370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, your witness.

03:21:35.370 --> 03:21:36.950
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes. Now

03:21:36.950 --> 03:21:47.200
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: to clarify, in relation to the 2026 certifications, that was issued not via request from this impeachment court, correct?

03:21:48.460 --> 03:21:54.300
Marizza B. Grande: It is through the request from the public prosecutor.

03:21:54.300 --> 03:21:54.840
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And

03:21:54.840 --> 03:21:57.120
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: there was no subpoena for that certification, correct?

03:21:57.520 --> 03:21:59.620
Marizza B. Grande: There was no subpoena, but...

03:21:59.620 --> 03:21:59.880
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: That is

03:21:59.880 --> 03:22:11.850
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: all, Madam Witness. Let me proceed. Madam Witness, kanina din po, pinakita kayo ng mga ARs at ang mga civil registry documents. Naalala niyo po? Tinanong ko na ito kanina.

03:22:11.910 --> 03:22:12.470
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:22:12.470 --> 03:22:13.190
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Now,

03:22:13.670 --> 03:22:16.210
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: an example is Rodolfo Traya. Tama po ba?

03:22:17.340 --> 03:22:18.100
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:22:18.200 --> 03:22:26.640
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Hindi mo kilala. You cannot say with certainty who that Rodolfo Traya is as appearing in the acknowledgement receipts, correct? You have no knowledge.

03:22:27.420 --> 03:22:28.220
Marizza B. Grande: No, sir.

03:22:28.420 --> 03:22:34.760
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You also have no knowledge with certainty who that Rodolfo Traya is as appearing in the civil registry documents, correct?

03:22:36.060 --> 03:22:36.580
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You

03:22:36.580 --> 03:22:37.540
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: do not personally know him.

03:22:39.260 --> 03:22:42.960
Marizza B. Grande: Agree, sir. The presentation po is...

03:22:42.960 --> 03:22:44.900
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Apologies, your honor. I'll have to invoke the rule.

03:22:45.020 --> 03:22:50.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness will answer. Kilala niyo po ba ng personal yung pangalang nakalagay sa talaan ninyo sa CRS?

03:22:51.520 --> 03:22:58.220
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po, sir. Nag-base lang po kami doon sa verification po namin. [unclear]

03:22:58.260 --> 03:23:01.880
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At yun naman talaga yung nilagay niyo sa certification ninyo. Your witness, counsel?

03:23:02.540 --> 03:23:05.340
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you, your honor. And pardon if I interjected for a bit.

03:23:05.420 --> 03:23:05.940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's okay, counsel.

03:23:06.160 --> 03:23:26.070
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you, your honor. Now, next. So you are not personally knowledgeable of who the person appearing in the AR is. You are also not personally knowledgeable on the person appearing in the civil registry documents. What you're only testifying now is that there are records existing with the PSA. Tama po ba?

03:23:26.590 --> 03:23:27.310
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:23:27.550 --> 03:23:36.670
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay, let's proceed. Ma'am Grande, the CRS database maintained by the PSA also has a repository of legal names, correct?

03:23:37.550 --> 03:23:38.250
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:23:38.720 --> 03:23:46.580
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And by legal names, tama po ba na ito po yung mga pangalan na recorded o nakarehistro sa mga Certificate of Live Birth natin?

03:23:47.170 --> 03:23:48.630
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir. Kasama

03:23:48.630 --> 03:23:48.830
Marizza B. Grande: yung

03:23:48.830 --> 03:23:57.970
Marizza B. Grande: mga corrections that has undergone halimbawa po sa administrative or through court order.

03:23:57.970 --> 03:23:58.470
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank

03:23:58.470 --> 03:24:06.270
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: you for that. And Madam Witness, you however confirm that yung PSA natin wala namang pong repository ng mga aliases, correct?

03:24:07.840 --> 03:24:28.980
Marizza B. Grande: I will disagree to that, sir. For aliases that has been judicially approved, na may authority na binigay po yung court, meron pong record ang civil registry. And in fact, we stored those that have been registered and annotated doon sa kanilang subject na birth certificate.

03:24:29.140 --> 03:24:34.800
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Okay, let's make it clear, Ma'am Grande. Meron po kayong repository sa mga judicially approved na aliases, correct?

03:24:35.410 --> 03:24:36.370
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: But you

03:24:36.370 --> 03:24:41.290
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: don't have a repository for aliases used in confidential or intelligence operations, correct?

03:24:41.350 --> 03:24:59.490
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, that would have no basis, Your Honor, because it has not been established that there are really aliases that used in relation to confidential funds. In fact, it is the humble submission of the prosecution, Your Honor, that aliases are used for intelligence funds but not for confidential funds.

03:24:59.490 --> 03:24:59.970
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, if I

03:24:59.970 --> 03:25:00.770
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: may respond briefly.

03:25:01.770 --> 03:25:03.210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel, before I make a

03:25:03.210 --> 03:25:03.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ruling.

03:25:03.390 --> 03:25:13.170
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, it is precisely the subject matter of this witness, Your Honor, and I think the court should be elucidated on this matter. In fact, one of our good senators even inquired on the matter, Your Honor.

03:25:13.690 --> 03:25:15.230
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: If I may, Your Honor.

03:25:15.230 --> 03:25:15.950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No

03:25:15.950 --> 03:25:27.040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: need, counsel. Counsel, the witness already, Attorney Justin, the witness already answered that the only list of aliases they have are those approved by the court.

03:25:27.860 --> 03:25:28.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So

03:25:28.300 --> 03:25:33.770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: any other type of aliases are not With you, Ms. Grande.

03:25:34.330 --> 03:25:35.250
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, your honor.

03:25:35.590 --> 03:25:36.050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, pag

03:25:36.050 --> 03:25:36.950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may alias na hindi

03:25:36.950 --> 03:25:44.380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: aprobado ng court, yung ginagamit, the pseudonyms used by actors, for example, and actresses, it's not with you?

03:25:44.620 --> 03:25:45.840
Marizza B. Grande: It's not with us, sir.

03:25:46.060 --> 03:25:59.980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll give you a particular example. Kausap ko lang si former Senate President Sotto kanina. Walang nakalagay sa inyong Chiquito dahil yung pangalan niya ay Rodolfo... Tito [unclear]?

03:26:01.760 --> 03:26:06.840
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Augusto Pangan. So wala sa inyong nakalagay na Chiquito dahil hindi naman judicially approved yun.

03:26:07.410 --> 03:26:11.170
Marizza B. Grande: Kung hindi po judicially approved, wala po kaming copy.

03:26:11.170 --> 03:26:11.470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay.

03:26:11.670 --> 03:26:12.630
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your witness counsel.

03:26:12.630 --> 03:26:20.290
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Turning back to my cross, Your Honor. Thank you. Hindi rin nagtatrack or nagkikip ng record yung PSA ng mga code names. Tama po ba?

03:26:20.990 --> 03:26:21.670
Marizza B. Grande: Tama, sir.

03:26:21.670 --> 03:26:22.250
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Hindi

03:26:22.250 --> 03:26:27.370
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: rin nagtatrack or nagkikip ng record ng PSA ng mga operational identities. Tama po ba?

03:26:28.030 --> 03:26:30.490
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po yan part ng mandate namin, Your Honor.

03:26:30.550 --> 03:26:49.450
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Correct. Now, the PSA through the CRS database keeps a record of pseudonyms that are judicially approved. But does it keep a record of pseudonyms used by our politicians? For example, and if I hope the lead prosecutor does not mind, Jinky Bitrics for example?

03:26:49.720 --> 03:27:03.760
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Already asked and answered, Your Honor. In fact, the presiding officer has already called the attention of the defense counsel and explained that this witness has already explained that the only um [unclear] that they keep are those that were judicially approved your honor

03:27:03.870 --> 03:27:11.450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Well, unless judicially approved yung ginagamit ni Jinky, which I doubt. But yes, the witness may answer.

03:27:11.450 --> 03:27:12.750
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Thank you, Your Honor.

03:27:12.750 --> 03:27:13.930
Marizza B. Grande: Yes

03:27:13.930 --> 03:27:22.770
Marizza B. Grande: po, sir. Only those with judicially authority ang na-annotate at na-re-register and therefore yun lang po yung nasa CRS.

03:27:22.770 --> 03:27:22.790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So to

03:27:22.790 --> 03:27:22.990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: clarify,

03:27:23.510 --> 03:27:27.990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your CRS does not contain nicknames?

03:27:29.310 --> 03:27:33.350
Marizza B. Grande: No, sir. Nicknames are not also legal names.

03:27:33.490 --> 03:27:38.890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Full name ang nakalagay dun, hindi nicknames, although nicknames are legal names.

03:27:40.070 --> 03:27:42.390
Marizza B. Grande: Only the first name, sir.

03:27:42.870 --> 03:27:44.810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is recorded in your CRS?

03:27:44.990 --> 03:27:45.450
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:27:45.650 --> 03:27:47.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But nicknames are not illegal.

03:27:49.440 --> 03:27:55.000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Even if it's not registered in the CRS, it's not necessarily illegal. Let's say it's a

03:27:55.000 --> 03:27:55.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: nickname.

03:27:57.900 --> 03:28:03.960
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po lahat yun naka-capture din sa CRS, Sir. And I think hindi naman po siguro illegal.

03:28:04.340 --> 03:28:12.080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At hindi porkit wala sa CRS ay illegal na, di ba? Tama, Ma'am? Hindi porkit wala sa CRS, illegal na. Let's say

03:28:12.080 --> 03:28:13.200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: nickname nga, halimbawa.

03:28:13.480 --> 03:28:14.000
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, Sir.

03:28:14.200 --> 03:28:15.900
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Attorney Justin?

03:28:16.520 --> 03:28:29.050
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. Returning to my cross. Madam Witness. Sinabi niyo po kanina na pina-identify at pina-verify po yung PSA ng H.O.R. ng mga pangalan. Ilang mga pangalan po kung naalala niyo?

03:28:30.130 --> 03:28:36.450
Marizza B. Grande: Doon po sa DepEd, 677 po, and sa OVP List, 1,992.

03:28:36.830 --> 03:28:43.850
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: At nung kinundak niyo po yung verification, you are not aware that these were aliases, correct?

03:28:44.420 --> 03:28:46.920
Marizza B. Grande: No information sir whether these are aliases.

03:28:47.260 --> 03:28:52.040
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You also had no information or you are not aware whether these names were operational code names, correct?

03:28:52.620 --> 03:28:54.060
Marizza B. Grande: No information sir.

03:28:54.180 --> 03:28:59.280
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You also had no information whether these names come from intelligence operatives, correct?

03:28:59.620 --> 03:29:07.720
Marizza B. Grande: We treat this as a regular na sinasubmit for verification which are considered as registered names.

03:29:08.420 --> 03:29:23.340
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: So Madam Witness, a few more questions. In confirming the results of the PSA certification in today's trial, you are only testifying on what the PSA found or did not find in your CRS database. Tama po ba?

03:29:23.940 --> 03:29:31.420
Marizza B. Grande: The certifications that we issued are only based on the records that is available or not in the database.

03:29:31.420 --> 03:29:31.960
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Correct.

03:29:32.100 --> 03:29:42.740
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And you cannot in all certainty, Ma'am Grande, testify today whether the name subject of the PSA certifications are even aliases used in confidential operations, correct?

03:29:43.020 --> 03:29:44.720
Marizza B. Grande: We don't know if those are aliases.

03:29:45.060 --> 03:29:56.040
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: And assuming whether those are aliases, you cannot also, in all certainty, testify today whether these names do not or do belong to real and existing persons, correct?

03:29:56.300 --> 03:29:59.960
Marizza B. Grande: I can only attest, sir, if these records are available in the data.

03:29:59.960 --> 03:30:00.580
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: No

03:30:00.580 --> 03:30:01.640
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: further questions, Your Honor.

03:30:01.820 --> 03:30:05.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, can I just have five minutes to organize my redirect, Your Honor?

03:30:05.580 --> 03:30:13.460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may, Counsel. I will ask if there is a senator-judge who wishes to intervene so that we don't waste time. Can I have the list, please?

03:30:16.580 --> 03:30:25.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In the order that they made known their desire to make interjections, Senator Bam Aquino is recognized for his interjection.

03:30:30.920 --> 03:30:31.480
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: I had a

03:30:31.480 --> 03:30:33.860
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: question earlier, pero siguro po mabilis na lang.

03:30:33.860 --> 03:30:36.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, you have 2 minutes sir. You may proceed.

03:30:36.350 --> 03:30:56.790
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Ma'am, yung binabanggit kanina na mga pangalan na hindi nyo po nakaka-capture sa database, yung mga napapanganak pero hindi po nare-rehistro, nagpapakasal, hindi po nare-rehistro, o namatay na hindi nyo po alam. Would you have data on anong percentage po niyan compared sa kabuuan ng database po ninyo?

03:30:57.760 --> 03:31:31.720
Marizza B. Grande: What we have sir is the 2020 na census of population on birth registration which provides that 96.6% of all the Filipinos are registered. So meron po kaming mga information nationwide kung saan po ito based po dun sa census and that's where we targeted yung Birth Registration Project po namin since 2022. And as of this August, nakaregister na po kami ng around 600,000 po na births.

03:31:31.720 --> 03:31:35.040
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So, largely 4% yung hindi niyo po nakakapture?

03:31:35.780 --> 03:31:48.080
Marizza B. Grande: Yung sa 2024 sir, which is unofficial now, there's an increase of about 97 to 97.1% na registration na po.

03:31:48.280 --> 03:31:53.170
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yes. So, 3%. Tama ba? Tama ba yung pag-iintindi ko dun sa numero?

03:31:53.510 --> 03:31:57.890
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir. 3% of the population na lang po yung kinacapture natin.

03:31:57.890 --> 03:32:00.570
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yung hindi nyo po nakacapture?

03:32:00.570 --> 03:32:01.050
Marizza B. Grande: Yes sir.

03:32:01.530 --> 03:32:10.270
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: At ano po yung profile ng 3% po? Sila po ba nasa GIDA area? Yung geographically isolated area?

03:32:11.990 --> 03:32:15.930
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Ano po yung profile ng 3% na hindi nyo po nakacapture sa inyong

03:32:15.930 --> 03:32:16.050
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: database?

03:32:16.050 --> 03:32:33.060
Marizza B. Grande: Karamihan po dito, Your Honor, yung mga indigenous peoples, Muslim Pilipinos, at yung mga nasa GIDA areas or remote areas at tayo po'y nakipag-partner sa mga local civil registrars for mobile registrations.

03:32:33.060 --> 03:32:33.480
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay.

03:32:33.580 --> 03:32:39.340
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yung hindi po naka-capture na marriage or death, do you have data on that?

03:32:40.120 --> 03:32:58.770
Marizza B. Grande: For the death, sir, as I've mentioned a while ago, merong mga estimates kami na ginawa. which is around mga 84% yung death registration. So yung mga programa naka-focus din sa IAC for the delayed registration po.

03:32:58.770 --> 03:32:59.190
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: So

03:32:59.190 --> 03:33:02.630
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: mas malaki po yun ma'am, 16% yung hindi nyo po naka-capture na

03:33:02.630 --> 03:33:02.690
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: death?

03:33:02.690 --> 03:33:22.930
Marizza B. Grande: Yes sir. But mostly po yung mga death registration ay sa mga Muslim brothers po natin. As to the marriages sir, ito yung wala pa tayong mga study kung ilan yung mga nagpapakasal na hindi pa nakapagparehistro.

03:33:23.090 --> 03:33:49.240
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. So ulitin ko lang po. So pag may mga pangalan na hindi nyo po nahahanap, probably nasa 3% lang po yung posibleng hindi nyo po nakaka-capture sa database. and sa marriages, up to 14%. Pero largely, yung majority ng mga Pilipino nasa database po ninyo.

03:33:49.380 --> 03:33:50.380
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:33:50.380 --> 03:33:50.580
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Hindi

03:33:50.580 --> 03:33:54.400
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: lang po majority, almost all Filipinos nasa database po ninyo.

03:33:54.520 --> 03:34:02.460
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, your honor. In fact, as of now, we have around 143 million birth records na nasa database na po ng

03:34:02.460 --> 03:34:02.920
Marizza B. Grande: PSA.

03:34:02.920 --> 03:35:17.210
Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Mr. Presiding Officer, siguro po just sa manifestation, siyempre po, Itong pinag-uusapan natin will really only be relevant if these are real names. Kung totoong tao ito, kaya yung testigo po nagtetestify kung posibleng bang totoo-too o hindi. Kung alias po ito, ibang usapan po yun. Kasi syempre kung alias yan, wala talaga yan sa database ni Ms. Grande. But even the alias itself has not been established or has not been admitted to. by the defense, if I'm not wrong. And there's only one person who said na ang tingin niya ay alias at yun po si Gina Acosta. Dun po sa, I'm not sure kung ako po yung nagtanong o may ibang senyador na nagtanong, but sinabi ni Ms. Gina Acosta para sa kanya, alias po yung mga pangalan. So, Mr. Presiding Officer, in the interest of time, baka maganda rin po ma-explore kung alias ba yan o hindi. Kung ang mga pangalan na yan ba ay may totoong pangalan na nasa likod nito na matagal na rin pong napag-uusapan ng mga senator-judges. Yun lang po, Mr. President Officer. Maraming salamat.

03:35:17.280 --> 03:35:45.890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. On that point, Senator-Judge Aquino Witness Gina Acosta also said she has no personal knowledge as to who Colonel Lachica supposedly gave the monies to. [unclear] she thought it may be aliases. Yes, the next to avail would be Senator Erwin Tulfo. After Senator-Judge Tulfo, Attorney Mae, will you be ready? Okay, Senator-Judge Tulfo, you may proceed sir, you have two minutes.

03:35:46.130 --> 03:35:47.410
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

03:35:49.310 --> 03:36:17.890
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Miss Witness, nabanggit po itong mga pangalan na si [unclear]. Medyo may recall po yung mga pangalan nila kasi mga yung apelido po nila yung isa yung pangalan na nakatanggap. Na-check nyo rin ho ba ito?

03:36:20.250 --> 03:36:22.470
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Doon sa inyong records?

03:36:23.390 --> 03:36:25.130
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor.

03:36:27.070 --> 03:36:35.690
Marizza B. Grande: Sa sobrang dami hindi ko masyadong matandaan but lahat po nung binanggit ninyo like nandun po yung mga resulta sa aming certification.

03:36:36.270 --> 03:36:48.530
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. May pagkakataon ba na sa civil registry po records ay maaaring hindi po conclusive bagamat existing po yung isang tao? May mga possibility po ba ganun?

03:36:50.370 --> 03:37:14.630
Marizza B. Grande: For this particular case po, Your Honor, May mga yung mga single match na sinasabi namin yan yung exact match ibig sabihin unique po na lumabas na merong record po sa CRS database. Pero kung tatanungin niyo po sa akin kung nag-iexist sila po yan, I cannot speculate po your honor.

03:37:14.850 --> 03:37:15.330
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay.

03:37:17.650 --> 03:37:44.090
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Pupwede po kaya na may instance po na yung mga pangalan na isinumiti sa inyo ay hindi pa po na-register sa inyo or dahil wala pa po silang late registration? Could it be possible? Kasi marami tayong naririnig kahit lalo na po ipang nakatira po sa mga malalayang lugar, mga katutubo nating kababayan ang dami-dami pang hindi pa po nakare-rehistro kahit sa civil registry.

03:37:44.850 --> 03:37:52.010
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor. Kung hindi pa po sila nag-process ng delayed registration, mag-negative result po sila sa PSA.

03:37:52.670 --> 03:38:04.370
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Chinet niyo rin po ba sa PhilSys o sa National ID System kung nandoon sa kanila naman pangalan ng mga isinumiti sa inyo? Did you ever coordinate with PhilSys?

03:38:05.130 --> 03:38:12.870
Marizza B. Grande: No po, Sir. I think may provision po doon sa National ID that

03:38:15.860 --> 03:38:19.960
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po kami pwede mag-divulge unless there is a court order.

03:38:20.560 --> 03:38:26.180
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ah, okay. So I mean to say, hindi po kayo pwede magtanong man lang. I mean to copy, to check.

03:38:26.720 --> 03:38:27.160
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Just

03:38:27.160 --> 03:38:31.480
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: to confirm, ito ba nandiyan sa record niyo, itong mga pangalan na ito?

03:38:32.200 --> 03:38:36.120
Marizza B. Grande: For the checking po sa national ID, hindi pa po namin nagawa, sir.

03:38:36.160 --> 03:38:37.020
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Hindi pa ninyo nagawa?

03:38:37.020 --> 03:38:37.340
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:38:37.340 --> 03:38:45.490
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. Panguling question nila ma'am. Sabi niyo 143 na po. As of when yung mga birth registration natin?

03:38:45.990 --> 03:39:08.440
Marizza B. Grande: Yung mga nasa database po ng PSA, it range even as early as 1904 yung mga nakita ko po sa records sa database. And even recently po, may mga nagdi-delayed registration nasa pre-Spanish, yung Spanish time po. na yung mga nag-a-avail ng dual citizenship. So yun po yung records po natin.

03:39:08.620 --> 03:39:11.360
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Alright. That's all for me, Mr. President.

03:39:11.420 --> 03:39:21.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Attorney Mae. You may proceed with your Redirect When you're ready

03:39:21.230 --> 03:39:48.730
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Magandang hapon po ulit, Ms. Grande. Kanina po, tinatanong kayo ng Defense Counsel kung lahat ng birth, kung masasabi mo ng lahat, kung masasabi mo... na lahat ng kapanganakan ay naka-register sa PSA. At ang sabi niyo, hindi. Nang tinanong kayo ni Senator Bam kung ilang porsyento, ang sabi mo 96.6% and you cited the census in 2020.

03:39:49.690 --> 03:39:50.330
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero

03:39:50.620 --> 03:40:03.010
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sinabi niyo rin in the course of the cross-examination na meron kayong mga programs to address the problems in registration. Tama pa.

03:40:03.530 --> 03:40:04.090
Marizza B. Grande: Yes ma'am.

03:40:04.150 --> 03:40:14.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon ano naman pong naging development sa rate ng registration with all these programs that you initiated?

03:40:15.590 --> 03:40:18.410
Marizza B. Grande: Since 2022

03:40:18.410 --> 03:40:21.010
Marizza B. Grande: po na nag almost

03:40:27.410 --> 03:40:27.830
Marizza B. Grande: 600

03:40:27.830 --> 03:41:03.660
Marizza B. Grande: ,000 and dun po sa recent na 2024 na census of population and CBMS although hindi pa po officially Nakikita na namin yung pag-increase ng birth registration up to 97 to 97.1% or equivalent po ito to 3.3 million na unregistered na lang po. So, ayun po, from that trend po, ma-observe natin na dumadami na po yung nare-register dahil sa libreng pagpaparehistro ng [unclear] po.

03:41:03.780 --> 03:41:16.800
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Nasabi ninyo na as of 2024, nasa 97% na Nang kapanganakan ang registered. Kung sa ganyang porsyento, inla naman ang unregistered na birth or kapanganakan?

03:41:17.540 --> 03:41:21.920
Marizza B. Grande: Nasa 3.3 to 3.4 million po yung unregistered.

03:41:22.000 --> 03:41:32.880
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Kung ang porsyento po ng hindi nakarehistro ng kapanganakan ay 3%, sa bawat 100 [unclear] isinisilang, ilan po sa kanila ang hindi nakarehistro more or less?

03:41:33.100 --> 03:41:36.760
Marizza B. Grande: Ibig sabihin po, 3 ang hindi nakarehistro sa 100 po.

03:41:37.000 --> 03:41:37.360
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay.

03:41:38.000 --> 03:41:44.280
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yung census po na inyong binabanggit, ang nire-record lamang nito ay birth registration. Tama po ba?

03:41:45.360 --> 03:41:49.000
Marizza B. Grande: Tama po. Nag-a-ask lang po ng questions on birth registration.

03:41:49.540 --> 03:41:54.340
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ano naman po, Ms. Grande, ang sinusukat ng verification ng PSA?

03:41:56.060 --> 03:42:02.480
Marizza B. Grande: Para po dito sa request na to, lahat po nung birth, marriage, at death po. Tinignan namin.

03:42:02.620 --> 03:42:19.750
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, kung yung census, Kaparehong paraan po sinusukat ng census yung ginagawa ng PSA sa verification. Ano naman po ang mangyayari sa porsyento ng registration or porsyento ng mga taong may records with the PSA?

03:42:21.000 --> 03:42:21.760
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung

03:42:21.760 --> 03:42:50.270
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sinabi ninyo na yung sa census ang tinitingnan lamang ay birth registration. Sa PSA, tinitingnan yung tatlong records. Diba? Birth, marriage, and death. Ngayon, Kung yung census, tinitingnan din itong tatlong records na ito, hindi lang birth, kasama ang marriage at ang death, ano sa tingin mo ang effect nito dun sa porsyento ng merong registration records?

03:42:51.370 --> 03:43:08.070
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ibig kong sabihin, while individually siguro ay ire-report yan sa existence ng birth, marriage, and death, pero pag overall, pag samasamahin mo, mas malaki po yung chance na Mas marami pong makikita ng registration po.

03:43:08.350 --> 03:43:20.590
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Doon naman punta naman po tayo dun sa sinubmit ng House of Representatives sa PSA for verification. Meron pong 2,669 names. Tama po ba?

03:43:20.930 --> 03:43:21.590
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po.

03:43:21.590 --> 03:43:21.810
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay.

03:43:22.880 --> 03:43:35.660
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At sinabi niyo rin po in the course of the direct examination na 1,685 names had no records of corresponding birth. Marriage or death. Tama po ba? Naalala niyo po yun?

03:43:36.000 --> 03:43:36.720
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po.

03:43:37.640 --> 03:43:46.910
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, kung ganun po yung bilang, ilan po ang porsyento ng unregistered dun sa 2,669?

03:43:47.290 --> 03:43:51.090
Marizza B. Grande: Sa pangkalahatan po, lumalabas na 63%.

03:43:51.090 --> 03:44:09.600
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, kung 63% ang unregistered sa porsyentong yan, kung ang porsyento na walang anumang civil registry record ay 63%, sa bawat 100 kataong isinisilang, ilan po sa kanila ang walang record?

03:44:10.730 --> 03:44:15.110
Marizza B. Grande: Ibig sabihin 63 po sa kada 100 po na tao.

03:44:15.210 --> 03:44:20.910
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 63 as opposed to 3 sa bawat 100 tao. Tama ba?

03:44:21.060 --> 03:44:21.340
Marizza B. Grande: Opo, opo.

03:44:21.400 --> 03:44:21.620
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay.

03:44:31.300 --> 03:44:46.070
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa inyong 25 taon po sa PSA, gaano po kadalas ninyong natatagpuan na sa bawat 100 pangalang i-verify ninyo sa PSA CRS 63 ang walang anumang civil registry records.

03:44:47.990 --> 03:45:00.710
Marizza B. Grande: Rare po ito ma'am because dun sa mga government agencies na i-verify po namin, hindi po ganoon kataas masyado yung mga resulta.

03:45:00.970 --> 03:45:08.730
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero in the ordinary course of PSA verification, nagco-conduct po kayo ng PSA verification, tama po ba?

03:45:08.730 --> 03:45:09.940
Marizza B. Grande: sa iba't

03:45:09.940 --> 03:45:12.360
Marizza B. Grande: iba pong mga request po ng ahensya po.

03:45:12.440 --> 03:45:24.500
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayong tanong ko po, sa bawat gaano po kadalas ninyong na-experience na sa bawat 100 taong bine-verify, 63 doon ay walang birth record?

03:45:26.200 --> 03:45:30.060
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm clarifying your honor because the witness earlier...

03:45:30.060 --> 03:45:30.740
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: The court already ruled

03:45:30.740 --> 03:45:30.900
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: your

03:45:30.900 --> 03:45:31.060
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: honor.

03:45:31.160 --> 03:45:31.600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's a

03:45:31.600 --> 03:45:33.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 63%

03:45:33.560 --> 03:45:33.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel.

03:45:34.430 --> 03:45:47.390
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry, Your Honor. The answer of the witness, she limited her answer earlier, Your Honor, to requests coming from agencies. Now, I'm asking regular verifications, Your Honor, not limited to those coming from requests from agencies.

03:45:47.390 --> 03:45:48.150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To

03:45:48.150 --> 03:45:53.250
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: clarify, Attorney Mae, regular verifications meaning yung mga walk-in na nagtatanong sa kanila,

03:45:53.500 --> 03:45:54.800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yun

03:45:54.800 --> 03:45:55.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ang tinatanong mo?

03:45:55.420 --> 03:45:55.720
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your

03:45:55.720 --> 03:45:57.520
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Honor. In a day?

03:45:57.680 --> 03:45:58.340
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In a month?

03:45:59.030 --> 03:46:14.410
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: It doesn't matter your honor. Basta for every 100% po nang nagre-request ng verification, ilan po dito? Gaano po kadalas na 63 tao in every 100 person ang walang kahit anumang records?

03:46:14.410 --> 03:46:15.070
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Specify counsel,

03:46:15.450 --> 03:46:22.150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: attorney Ms. Grande, in a month na may nagre-request sa inyo ng verification, ilan porosyento yung walang records sa inyo?

03:46:22.150 --> 03:46:23.190
Marizza B. Grande: Based

03:46:23.190 --> 03:46:33.210
Marizza B. Grande: po sa data namin sir, your honor, for the request of birth, marriage, and death, nag mga around 7-8% lang po yung mga negative record.

03:46:33.410 --> 03:46:35.590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So mataas sa 3%?

03:46:36.010 --> 03:46:37.910
Marizza B. Grande: Mataas po yung positive sir.

03:46:40.600 --> 03:46:51.320
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ano naman pong resulta po ang karaniwang inaasahan ng PSA sa isang listahan na merong 2,669 na pangalan?

03:46:52.100 --> 03:46:52.780
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Misleading, Your

03:46:52.780 --> 03:46:52.940
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Honor.

03:46:53.320 --> 03:46:58.500
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: It assumes that there is already an expectation on the part of the PSA, Your Honor. The

03:46:58.500 --> 03:46:59.080
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: question assumes.

03:46:59.460 --> 03:47:25.120
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, based on her experience, Your Honor, because this witness has been with the PSA for already 25 years, Your Honor, so I am asking her, based on her experience, ano yung karaniwang inaasahan kapag binibigyan ng listan for verification na merong 2,669 na pangalan, Your Honor? Ano yung... Ina-expect nila relative to the number of names with corresponding...

03:47:25.120 --> 03:47:39.100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll sustain it on the ground that there's no basis, counsel. But let me ask you, Ms. Grande, ito ba ang unang pagkakataon na nahiningan kayo ng verification sa CRS ninyo ng mahigit isang libong pangalan?

03:47:39.940 --> 03:47:44.280
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po, Your Honor. Madalas po kami makatanggap sa iba't ibang ahensya.

03:47:44.280 --> 03:47:44.400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Na

03:47:44.400 --> 03:47:44.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ganung karami?

03:47:45.420 --> 03:48:01.860
Marizza B. Grande: Opo. But dumadaan po ito sa data matching na process po namin, which is exact match po sa name na similar sa request po ng House of Representative. Now dito po sa House of Representative, individual po ito, Your Honor.

03:48:02.140 --> 03:48:08.040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi ito ang unang pagkakataon na may nanghingi sa inyo ng lump sum na mga pangalan para tingnan.

03:48:08.260 --> 03:48:09.300
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor.

03:48:09.540 --> 03:48:17.590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung mga nakaraang karanasan ninyo na may humingi ng ganito karaming. Pangalan, ilan yung prosyento ng may record kayo at wala?

03:48:18.250 --> 03:48:23.410
Marizza B. Grande: Based po dun sa aming pong data na sa 38% lang po.

03:48:23.410 --> 03:48:24.830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 38% yung walang

03:48:24.830 --> 03:48:25.690
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: tumama sa record?

03:48:25.690 --> 03:48:26.490
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po yun.

03:48:26.490 --> 03:48:26.950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay.

03:48:26.990 --> 03:48:27.810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, I will

03:48:27.810 --> 03:48:40.370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: summarize ha. 3% yung sa tingin nyo wala sa CRS nyo sa kabuan. 7% in a month's time yung walk-in na nagtatanong-tanong ang wala sa record nyo. At dito 30?

03:48:41.430 --> 03:48:41.950
Marizza B. Grande: 38%.

03:48:41.950 --> 03:48:42.370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 8%.

03:48:42.370 --> 03:48:44.580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Your witness, counsel, Attorney Mae.

03:48:45.120 --> 03:48:46.740
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: That would be all for redirect, Your Honor.

03:48:46.740 --> 03:48:47.020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay,

03:48:47.120 --> 03:48:47.760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: recross, any?

03:48:47.900 --> 03:48:49.000
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Nothing to recross, your honor.

03:48:49.380 --> 03:48:56.040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We now proceed to the intervention of our senator-judges. Senator-Judge Villanueva is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

03:48:59.860 --> 03:49:02.940
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Senate President.

03:49:06.500 --> 03:49:21.320
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ms. Grande, binanggit po ninyo 143 million yung registration sa inyo ng birth. And nabanggit nyo 1904 yung huli. Ilan po yung deaths noon para makita natin ngayon yung current denominator?

03:49:21.980 --> 03:49:26.080
Marizza B. Grande: Yung death po nasa mga 29 million, Your Honor.

03:49:26.460 --> 03:49:27.100
Sen. Joel Villanueva: 29?

03:49:32.020 --> 03:49:50.180
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So mga 13 million. Madam Witness, binabanggit niyo po kanina na yun pong sa kabuuan ng inyong experience, pinakamalaki na po yung 7 to 9 percent na wala doon sa inyong record. Whether...

03:49:51.830 --> 03:49:57.910
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Walk-in lang po sila or hindi? 7-8% lang?

03:49:58.090 --> 03:49:59.730
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir, based on data.

03:49:59.930 --> 03:50:19.350
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So dito sa nakita ninyo at ang binanggit nyo po doon sa hiningi ng ahensya, dito sa isang particular na ahensya, 63% yung unregistered. So ang tanong ko po, masasabi nyo po ba na ito ay usual, unusual, or highly unusual?

03:50:22.080 --> 03:50:43.070
Marizza B. Grande: Well sir, based dun sa results po, hindi ko po siya ma-determine kasi po nag-base lang kami sa percentage at yung kung whether registered ang nasa PSA po, yan po yung record. So kung registration, posible po na nasa...

03:50:43.070 --> 03:50:43.310
Sen. Joel Villanueva: I'm

03:50:43.310 --> 03:50:56.610
Sen. Joel Villanueva: asking this in your own personal capacity as a statistician. Is it usual? Unusual? Highly unusual? Because you are mentioning na 7-8% lang eh. But this time it's 63%.

03:50:56.610 --> 03:50:58.090
Marizza B. Grande: Sir, it is unusual.

03:50:58.090 --> 03:51:00.230
Sen. Joel Villanueva: It's not highly unusual.

03:51:01.060 --> 03:51:01.940
Marizza B. Grande: Not naman

03:51:01.940 --> 03:51:02.060
Marizza B. Grande: hi

03:51:02.060 --> 03:51:03.220
Marizza B. Grande: sir. Unusual lang po.

03:51:03.220 --> 03:51:19.560
Sen. Joel Villanueva: I'll take that. Wala hong mali at tamang sagot dun sa... I mean kayo lang po yung makakapag [unclear] personal niyo po yan. Gusto ko nung tanongin, may mga ilang ahensya din po ba na sa inyo kumukonsulta, sa inyo humihingi ng ganitong record other than this particular issue that we're talking about?

03:51:20.120 --> 03:51:23.280
Marizza B. Grande: Ibat-ibang government agencies po your honor. Marami po.

03:51:23.480 --> 03:51:31.660
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Opo. At dun din po, ano naman po yung percentage? Ganito rin ho ba kalaki na... Kasi... Ano yan, no?

03:51:33.260 --> 03:51:42.480
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Fix na yan. Yung 7-8% na wala, 3% unregistered. Pero doon sa mga humihingi, umaabot din po ba sila doon sa 63%?

03:51:43.480 --> 03:51:46.260
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi nga po, sir, sa mga ibang ahensya.

03:51:46.520 --> 03:51:49.800
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Ano yung average na nakukuha nyo, percentage-wise?

03:51:51.150 --> 03:51:55.690
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi ko po siya na lahat-lahat ng ahensya, sir, but there are...

03:51:55.690 --> 03:51:56.870
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Just the average, in

03:51:56.870 --> 03:51:59.030
Sen. Joel Villanueva: your own... average lang po.

03:52:01.260 --> 03:52:03.940
Marizza B. Grande: Iba-iba po kasi, sir, eh. Pero siguro...

03:52:04.420 --> 03:52:05.940
Sen. Joel Villanueva: May umaabot ng 50%?

03:52:07.440 --> 03:52:11.360
Marizza B. Grande: Wala po, eh. Mga 30 to 40%. Yun yung pinakamalaki.

03:52:12.280 --> 03:52:13.000
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you.

03:52:13.140 --> 03:52:31.560
Sen. Joel Villanueva: May explanation po na some of the names used dun sa confidential fund documents ay may actually be aliases. And from the perspective ng PSA, kung alias lamang po yung ibibigay sa inyo, walang underlying true identity, may paraan pa po ba ang PSA to verify that the alias corresponds to a real person?

03:52:32.580 --> 03:52:45.500
Marizza B. Grande: The only way sir is to provide kung sino po yung mga tao na ito na gumagamit kung yan po ay alias, ibigay sa amin para ma-verify po yung registered name po.

03:52:45.500 --> 03:52:46.260
Sen. Joel Villanueva: How do you verify?

03:52:46.260 --> 03:53:00.870
Marizza B. Grande: Sir, I mean po, if they are aliases, Hindi po namin yun malalaman. Pero sa likod po ng alias, meron po silang totoong identity po ba. So kung may bibigay po yun, mabe-verify po namin.

03:53:01.050 --> 03:53:02.170
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So kung walang ibigay, hindi?

03:53:02.170 --> 03:53:02.810
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po.

03:53:02.810 --> 03:53:07.430
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Or if it's the court who issued it, yung bilanggit niyo po kanina.

03:53:08.170 --> 03:53:20.010
Marizza B. Grande: Pag sa court po, Your Honor, if nag-grant na po may period of time na dapat siyang i-register at nang mai-annotate sa kanyang civil registry document.

03:53:20.450 --> 03:53:33.710
Sen. Joel Villanueva: Sige po. If a body establishes that an alias corresponds to an actual individual, what identifying information would ordinarily be necessary to perform that verification?

03:53:34.490 --> 03:53:48.390
Marizza B. Grande: Sir, similarly po, pangalan. kung sino po yung alias na yun at iba pong identifying information like date of birth, place of birth at magulang, pangalan ng magulang.

03:53:48.390 --> 03:53:48.650
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So

03:53:48.650 --> 03:54:06.360
Sen. Joel Villanueva: kung lahat po ay aliases dun sa acknowledgement receipt without any independently verifiable information connecting that alias to the real identity ang PSA po itself cannot establish that the person behind that receipt actually exists. Is that correct?

03:54:06.560 --> 03:54:06.960
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, sir.

03:54:07.220 --> 03:54:31.040
Sen. Joel Villanueva: So, yun lang po, ginong Pangulo, at gusto lamang natin sabihin na hindi ho natin hinihingi sa PSA na magkaroon ho kayo ng opinion on whether or not using aliases is proper. And the narrower point here is simply what can and cannot be independently verified from the records presented. Maraming salamat, Madam [unclear].

03:54:31.160 --> 03:54:33.020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Villanueva.

03:54:37.490 --> 03:54:43.750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge, before Senator-Judge, the Senate President is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed.

03:54:43.750 --> 03:54:44.630
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you,

03:54:44.650 --> 03:55:09.120
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Ms. Grande. Ms. Grande, narinig ko kanina na 25 years na kayo sa PSA. At gusto ko malaman kung ang isang pangalan, walang birth certificate, walang death certificate, walang marriage certificate, ito ba ay nag-i-exist na tao, nabubuhay na tao? Based on your... experience in the PSA?

03:55:10.690 --> 03:55:23.130
Marizza B. Grande: Maari po your honor kasi kung wala pong record sa PSA but there are process na i-undergo nila like delayed registration para magka-record po.

03:55:23.430 --> 03:55:32.390
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alam ko yun but based on your experience sa tingin niyo ba itong tao nag-eexist o nabubuhay? O itong pangalan nag-eexist o nabubuhay na tao?

03:55:34.250 --> 03:55:51.990
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Based on your experience, sa dami nyo nang narinig ko kanina, ang daming agencies na pumupunta sa inyo, based on your experience, I'm sure may mga ganitong instances rin kayo na-encounter. So sa experience nyo ba, itong mga ganitong pangalan, nabubuhay, nage-exist na tao?

03:55:52.450 --> 03:56:15.290
Marizza B. Grande: So Your Honor, very slim yung chance kasi kung wala kang birth certificate, mayroon naman mga tao na Walang birth certificate pero nagpapakasal. Or kung namatay sila, mandatory na i-re-register. So at least siguro isa sa mga vital event na yan ay may record na magpapatunay na nag-exist yung isang tao po.

03:56:15.650 --> 03:56:20.670
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Kaya based on your experience, mahirap?

03:56:21.380 --> 03:56:22.520
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor.

03:56:24.940 --> 03:56:40.540
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Nakita ko kasi nag-issue kayo ng mga negative certification. Again, based on your experience, itong negative certification na ini-issue niyo for death, for birth, marriage, and death, nagagamit ba ito sa korte? O nagamit ba ito sa korte?

03:56:41.230 --> 03:57:13.790
Marizza B. Grande: Actually, Your Honor, yung PSA certifications ay marami pong mga ahensya. Even the courts require us to submit itong mga to verify whether there are birth, marriage, or death of a person. So, parang nag-establish ito ng proof kung namatay na ba yung isang tao. So, sa all walks po yata ng government transactions and private, hinihingi nila ang PSA certification as a proof sa pag-ano ng mga iba't ibang transaction.

03:57:14.130 --> 03:57:29.310
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Based on your experience, nagamit ba, let's say, wala siyang birth, wala siyang marriage, wala siyang death? At ang sabi ng Korte, itong tao ay hindi nabubuhay o hindi na-exist. Meron bang ganyan ng mga instances na ginamit yung PSA negative certification?

03:57:30.070 --> 03:57:35.770
Marizza B. Grande: Yun po sir. Karaniwan pong nagbibigay kami ng mga certifications sa mga RTCs po.

03:57:35.930 --> 03:57:37.190
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero nagamit ba? Yun

03:57:37.190 --> 03:57:37.490
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ang gusto

03:57:37.490 --> 03:57:38.050
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ko malaman.

03:57:38.230 --> 03:57:38.810
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir.

03:57:38.970 --> 03:57:45.130
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: At ang hatol ng Korte, itong pangalan na ito, hindi ito nabubuhay, hindi nag-exist.

03:57:45.670 --> 03:57:46.210
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Meron kang

03:57:46.210 --> 03:57:46.990
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: ganun na alam?

03:57:47.280 --> 03:57:51.820
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi lang po ako aware kung may mga ganong decision po ang RTC.

03:57:51.820 --> 03:57:52.020
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero

03:57:52.020 --> 03:57:52.500
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: nagamit?

03:57:52.680 --> 03:57:53.420
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

03:57:53.460 --> 03:58:08.700
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. And then, sa mga ganitong panahon, pag ang isang tao walang birth certificate, ano ang, sa pagkala mo, ano yung mga pwede o hindi niya pwedeng gawin dahil wala siyang birth certificate?

03:58:09.140 --> 03:58:13.440
Marizza B. Grande: Well, napaka-importante po yung birth certificate, sir. For one, pagbata,

03:58:15.120 --> 03:58:46.850
Marizza B. Grande: para magkaroon ng pangalan, identity sa school enrollment. Yan po yung mga requirements. And in fact, sir, even yung mga 80 years old and over, ngayon po ay marami nagpapa-late to avail of the incentives sa government. So, we are aware that yung mga kababayan natin ay Lahat gusto na rin magpa-register ng kanilang birth certificate dahil nire-recognize nila na hindi sila maka-access sa anumang serbisyo without the birth certificate po.

03:58:46.950 --> 03:58:51.530
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Ito mahalaga ang birth certificate sa pang-araw-araw na pamumuhay in other words.

03:58:51.750 --> 03:58:52.930
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po sir, your honor.

03:58:53.090 --> 03:59:30.920
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Itong narinig ko kanina na actually tinitignan namin yung tinitignan ko yung data, 63% [unclear] sa inyo na pangalan walang records out of the 266 names. Nung nakita niyo ito, ano ang naging reaction ng PSA? Nagkaroon ba kayo ng internal investigation? Ikaw ba mismo bilang matagal nang nagtatrabaho sa PSA, nagkaroon ba kayo ng internal investigation kung bakit ganito kalaki yung walang records?

03:59:32.170 --> 03:59:58.550
Marizza B. Grande: Ang ginawa namin sir after the verification is nag-summarize lang kung ilan yung mga records po na mga wala at nag-conduct ng further verification doon sa mga names na lagi pong nakasubaybay din po kami like yung kay Mary Grace Piatos and then we check every now and then kung may mga darating na documents or wala.

04:00:00.000 --> 04:00:06.440
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Internal investigation na kung totoong tao ito o hindi totoong tao ito, nabubuhay ba itong tao? May ganun bang ginawa ang PSA?

04:00:06.720 --> 04:00:07.560
Marizza B. Grande: Wala po, Your Honor.

04:00:07.680 --> 04:00:08.920
Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Thank you, Mr. President.

04:00:08.920 --> 04:00:09.220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank

04:00:09.220 --> 04:00:13.480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Mr. President. Senator [unclear], you have two minutes, ma'am. You may proceed in your ready.

04:00:21.410 --> 04:00:59.330
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Ms. Marizza, napakahalaga po ng authority ng PSA sa usapin ng mga civil registration records. Halimbawa ang laki ng tulong ng authority ninyo para patunayan noon na hindi totoong Pilipino si Alice Guo at invento lang yung identity niya. So ang tanong ko po sa inyo, sa mata ng PSA, totoong tao po ba yung nakapangalan sa mga acknowledgement receipts na isinumite ng OVP at ng DepEd?

04:01:00.580 --> 04:01:11.740
Marizza B. Grande: We treated as a name na kagaya po ng mga requests na sinasubmit ng any government agencies or an individual po ma'am.

04:01:12.970 --> 04:01:25.410
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: At base sa findings ninyo, yung pinakita nyo sa aming kanina na 63% ay walang niisa sa tatlong records ng birth, ng marriage, ng death.

04:01:26.970 --> 04:01:34.590
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Tinuturing ba ng PSA na totoong tao itong mga 63% or tinuturing nyo na hindi totoong tao?

04:01:36.120 --> 04:01:47.800
Marizza B. Grande: Considering po ma'am na we have no idea kung alias is to, we treated this as regular lang po na request na parang as a registered name po siya.

04:01:48.290 --> 04:01:54.190
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Pag sinasabi nyo pong tinreat nyo na regular requests, ibig bang sabihin na

04:01:55.800 --> 04:02:02.120
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Presumption nyo, totoong tao ito? Or may presumption ba kayo na kung aliases, hindi ito totoong tao?

04:02:03.160 --> 04:02:20.460
Marizza B. Grande: Like I've mentioned, ma'am, we have no idea that this is our aliases. So, similar to other requests, binerify po namin as if these are the registered names in the PSA database po.

04:02:20.840 --> 04:02:43.940
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: One last follow-up on this, Ms. Marizza. Paano na iba yung findings nyo nung iniimbestiga namin yung kaso ni Alice Guo kumpara sa findings ninyo dito sa mga acknowledgement receipts? Ibig sabihin may pagkakapareho ba o may pagkakaiba ba yung assessment nyo dun sa findings nyo sa dalawang sitwasyong ito?

04:02:44.270 --> 04:02:51.150
Marizza B. Grande: Doon sa file po, doon sa case po ni Alice Guo, we did an investigation ma'am because

04:02:53.880 --> 04:03:06.980
Marizza B. Grande: The birth has been recorded and registered and following yung mga investigations conducted, bumaba po kami para mag-conduct ng fact-finding investigation po.

04:03:07.440 --> 04:03:21.240
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: At dito naman sa tinatanong namin sa inyo, wala naman po kayong investigation or fact-finding. At oo nga naman pala, sa kaso ni Guo Hua Ping-e, mayroon po tayong pinagsimulan noon na birth record or registration.

04:03:22.100 --> 04:03:22.780
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, ma'am.

04:03:22.780 --> 04:03:23.040
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Okay

04:03:23.040 --> 04:03:36.500
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: po. Iba dito sa 63% na wala ni isa sa tatlo. Huling tanong ko, Mr. Presiding Officer, if I may, kaugnay ng binanggit ni Ms. Marizza sa aliases, tanong po sa defense kay attorney.

04:03:38.700 --> 04:03:39.800
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Magandang hapon po, attorney.

04:03:40.260 --> 04:03:41.140
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Good afternoon, good afternoon.

04:03:42.880 --> 04:04:27.340
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Nakikinig po ako dun sa mga tanong niyo kay Ms. Grande at parang magulo po. Nung una, pinapakita na posibleng totoong tao ang nakapangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, hindi lang nahagip ng mga records ng PSA. Pagkatapos, pinapakita naman na kung alias, wala naman talagang records sa PSA. So for the record at malinaw na po, once and for all, ano po ba ang sinasabi ng respondent? Sa mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, mga totoong pangalan po ba ang mga iyon? Or mga aliases po ba iyon?

04:04:28.420 --> 04:04:40.780
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, given that it has become a material matter, we have to couch this answer that it is classified information. But these are, in fact, aliases, Your Honor, for the consideration of this court.

04:04:41.260 --> 04:04:41.820
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Alright.

04:04:41.820 --> 04:04:42.540
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: But

04:04:42.540 --> 04:04:58.380
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: I hope you understand, Your Honor, that in threshing out this matter, Having in mind the reminder of the good presiding officer, we will do this at the appropriate time during our presentation of evidence, Your Honor. I will veer away from making conclusions of law or facts as of the moment.

04:04:59.340 --> 04:05:15.040
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Pero salamat pa rin po. Inaabangan ko rin po yung presentation ng defense ng inyong mga saksi, inyong mga ebidensya. But at least as to this point in time, salamat po dun sa panimulang pagtugon nyo sa akin.

04:05:18.310 --> 04:05:24.690
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Ayon sa panig ng respondent tungkol sa mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts ay ito ay mga aliases.

04:05:24.690 --> 04:05:25.190
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: You

04:05:25.190 --> 04:05:25.570
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: are welcome.

04:05:25.810 --> 04:05:31.230
Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po. At salamat po, attorney. Salamat, Ms. Marizza. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

04:05:31.710 --> 04:05:36.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. The avail of round two, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. You may proceed, sir. You have [unclear] minutes when you're ready.

04:05:43.870 --> 04:05:51.510
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Quick clarificatory questions lamang po sa ating pong witness.

04:05:53.030 --> 04:06:03.050
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Miss Marizza, tama mo ba ang sabihin na 1,322 na mga pangalan sinubuti sa inyo ay walang birth certificate? Parang halos kalahati. Is that correct?

04:06:03.050 --> 04:06:04.290
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

04:06:04.290 --> 04:06:06.670
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So, kalahati po walang birth certificate?

04:06:07.010 --> 04:06:09.930
Marizza B. Grande: For the OVP, sir, 1,322.

04:06:10.210 --> 04:06:14.170
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Sa OVP lang? Wala nyo pa po kasama dyan sa Department of Education? DepEd.

04:06:14.490 --> 04:06:15.070
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po.

04:06:15.930 --> 04:06:23.260
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Okay. Let's move on. Sa defense naman, Atty. Justin, I have one quick question for you, sir.

04:06:24.300 --> 04:06:25.080
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Yes, Your Honor.

04:06:25.220 --> 04:06:41.960
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yeah, please refresh my memory, Atty. Justin. Yung inyong posisyon po, correct me if I'm wrong, ay hindi porkit walang birth certificate ang isang tao, hindi na nage-exist. Tama po ba? Is that what I'm hearing? Or correct me if I'm wrong.

04:06:42.920 --> 04:06:48.520
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: To clarify, Your Honor, that is not the defense position. That is what the witness testified today.

04:06:49.120 --> 04:06:55.180
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Oh, so okay. So that's what the... Your position will be presented later on, correct?

04:06:55.680 --> 04:07:12.510
Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular: Your Honor, our position will be raised through our cross-examination and through, of course, our defense presentation of evidence. But what I can answer is, based on what the witness testified today... It does not follow, Your Honor, that if a person does not have a birth certificate, he does not exist.

04:07:12.790 --> 04:08:01.120
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you. That's what I'm driving at right now, Attorney Justin. Okay, Mr. Presiding Officer, kailangan po siguro nating linawin kung ang mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, ay mga pangalan ba ito ng mga tunay na tao o mga alias sa mga ito? Kasi hanggang ngayon, Nagugulahan mo tayo. Sinasabi po alias. Sinasabi po nila. They're not commenting if it's alias or not. If it's real or not. So we really have to establish siguro Mr. Presiding Officer during the next few days or weeks. Ano ba talaga itong pinag-uusapan natin totoong tao ba ito? Na nasa likod lamang itong mga aliases na ito ay mga totoong tao na nasa likod ng ikanga ng mga aliases na ito. That's what I want to find out and be clarified as a [unclear]. Thank you, sir.

04:08:01.680 --> 04:08:08.160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Just a few interjections from the chair. Atty. Mae, if you will please.

04:08:12.170 --> 04:08:23.810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Why didn't the prosecution submit all the names in the acknowledgement receipts to PSA? Why did it choose and what was the basis of choosing the names?

04:08:24.720 --> 04:08:27.820
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, not all acknowledgement receipts contained

04:08:29.640 --> 04:08:35.040
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Names. Some of the names are unreadable. Some only contain signatures, Your Honor.

04:08:35.040 --> 04:08:35.640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll

04:08:35.640 --> 04:08:36.180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: give an example,

04:08:36.200 --> 04:08:36.420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney.

04:08:36.920 --> 04:08:37.400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The

04:08:37.560 --> 04:08:40.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: OVP acknowledgement receipts are how many?

04:08:40.930 --> 04:08:42.610
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The ones submitted, Your Honor.

04:08:42.850 --> 04:08:46.330
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2,669, if I remember correctly.

04:08:46.390 --> 04:08:46.670
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: That's the

04:08:46.670 --> 04:08:47.710
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: total, Your Honor.

04:08:47.710 --> 04:08:48.850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, the total

04:08:48.850 --> 04:08:50.790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for OVP. No, for OVP only.

04:08:51.230 --> 04:08:52.270
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: and DepEd, Your Honor.

04:08:52.370 --> 04:08:54.950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, the total with DepEd would be more than 4,000,

04:08:55.010 --> 04:08:55.490
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel.

04:08:55.490 --> 04:09:02.850
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: With all due respect, Your Honor, the total for OVP is 1,992. The total for DepEd is 677.

04:09:05.770 --> 04:09:07.770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That you submitted with the PSA.

04:09:07.770 --> 04:09:08.230
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes,

04:09:08.250 --> 04:09:08.510
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor.

04:09:08.650 --> 04:09:14.450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's not the total number of acknowledgement receipts. The total number of acknowledgement receipts

04:09:14.450 --> 04:09:14.630
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for

04:09:14.630 --> 04:09:15.210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: OVP

04:09:15.210 --> 04:09:15.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is

04:09:15.390 --> 04:09:17.290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2,669.

04:09:17.310 --> 04:09:23.910
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, yes, Your Honor. I'm sorry. I got confused, Your Honor. I thought... Only the names that were submitted to the PSA.

04:09:24.130 --> 04:09:32.550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. So what was the basis? So for the DepEd, you submitted 677 but the total is 1,800.

04:09:33.050 --> 04:09:47.780
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. The reason is that some acknowledgement receipts only contain signature, Your Honor. So we have no way of determining the names or to whom those signatures correspond to. And also, Your Honor, some names are unreadable.

04:09:47.780 --> 04:09:49.720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: My

04:09:49.720 --> 04:10:07.920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question actually, attorneys. So the 63% percentage na wala sa record ng PSA is actually based on your choice of the names submitted. It's not the universe of the names in the ARs, readable or unreadable.

04:10:08.140 --> 04:10:15.160
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. That would exclude those with unreadable names and those ARs containing only the signatures, Your Honor.

04:10:15.380 --> 04:10:19.260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And for that matter, the percentage can increase or decrease if you had submitted all?

04:10:21.180 --> 04:10:22.260
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: It's possible, Your Honor.

04:10:22.340 --> 04:10:23.160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It can go both ways, right?

04:10:23.480 --> 04:10:23.960
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor.

04:10:24.380 --> 04:10:32.100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Ma'am Grande, 143 million yung nasa record po ninyo. Tama?

04:10:32.820 --> 04:10:34.220
Marizza B. Grande: For births po, Your Honor.

04:10:34.340 --> 04:10:37.420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For births? Ang sabi niyo namatay ay 29 million?

04:10:38.220 --> 04:10:39.080
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, po, Your Honor.

04:10:39.420 --> 04:10:42.120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lahat po ba nang may death certificate, may birth certificate?

04:10:43.280 --> 04:10:44.200
Marizza B. Grande: Hindi po, Your Honor.

04:10:44.740 --> 04:10:48.380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anong porsyento naman po yan? Would you know? If you know?

04:10:52.470 --> 04:11:00.980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So pagkakapanganak, pagpapakasal at pagkamatay ang sinasabi nyo mahahagip at mahahagip yan kahit papano ng isa sa tatlo.

04:11:01.690 --> 04:11:02.430
Marizza B. Grande: Yes sir.

04:11:02.670 --> 04:11:14.350
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero hindi pa nyo sinicheck wala pa bang AI yan na tingnan nyo kung yung namatay may birth certificate, kung yung buhay may kasal ba. Ayaw nyo bang gawin yun? Wouldn't that be an interesting piece of information on the part of PSA?

04:11:14.950 --> 04:11:18.030
Marizza B. Grande: Kaya din sir. for AI siguro.

04:11:18.210 --> 04:11:36.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So dun ba nanggalang yung figure mo na 3 million or roughly 3% ang hindi pa registrado? Kasi 143 records of birth, 29 million ang namatay. That gives you a total of 114 million based on your estimate ng census, 117 million ang population ng Pilipinas mid this year.

04:11:37.190 --> 04:11:49.890
Marizza B. Grande: Your Honor, yung estimate on the birth registration is based on the 2020 census of population po. There's a question po dun sa household member, whether registered yung kanilang birth certificate.

04:11:50.270 --> 04:11:52.710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So it's based on a survey, not based on actual data?

04:11:53.050 --> 04:11:54.350
Marizza B. Grande: Census, Your Honor.

04:11:55.010 --> 04:11:57.610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kaya based sa census niyo six years ago?

04:11:58.830 --> 04:12:16.850
Marizza B. Grande: And just recently, sir, on the 2024 CBMS and POPCEN, there's another round which we are updating and naku-cross-validation na po kami doon sa CRS data which is the estimate I provided a while ago, Your Honor. That's 97 to 97.1.

04:12:17.030 --> 04:12:21.190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So that means to say, as you confirmed earlier, hindi talaga universal yung CRS.

04:12:21.960 --> 04:12:22.780
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, sir.

04:12:22.900 --> 04:12:33.120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: When you say universal, hindi pa universal, hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong nabubuhay ngayon, nandun. Hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong namatay, nandun. Hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong kinasal nasa CRS ninyo.

04:12:33.320 --> 04:12:33.900
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po,

04:12:33.940 --> 04:12:34.100
Marizza B. Grande: sir.

04:12:34.100 --> 04:12:35.700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Would that be a fair statement, ma'am?

04:12:36.020 --> 04:12:37.140
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, your honor.

04:12:37.560 --> 04:13:10.410
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, and finally, no, second to the last, single match entry. Kung hindi sa universal, Hindi purkit may single match entry kayo na nag-match dun sa pangalan binigay, eh siya na talaga yun. Kasi may entry kayo na 53, most likely matched. May pangalang 907 ang most likely matched sa birth, 305 ang most likely matched sa marriage, 53 ang most likely matched sa death.

04:13:11.280 --> 04:13:26.740
Marizza B. Grande: Your Honor, pag sinabi namin na most likely, one most likely birth record, for example, using that name po, it has an exact match na may isang record po na nasa database.

04:13:27.020 --> 04:13:28.160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pag sinabi mong single match?

04:13:28.440 --> 04:13:28.900
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po,

04:13:28.980 --> 04:13:29.200
Marizza B. Grande: Your Honor.

04:13:29.200 --> 04:13:31.820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Meaning may isang kamatch siya, hindi siya madaming kamatch?

04:13:32.060 --> 04:13:33.060
Marizza B. Grande: Isa lang po, yes, Your Honor.

04:13:33.240 --> 04:13:35.760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero hindi rin nangangahulugan na siya nga yun?

04:13:37.250 --> 04:13:38.810
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, possible po, Your Honor.

04:13:39.050 --> 04:13:40.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's possible yung hindi pa rin siya yun?

04:13:42.400 --> 04:13:43.480
Marizza B. Grande: Possible, Your Honor.

04:13:43.480 --> 04:13:44.240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now,

04:13:44.380 --> 04:13:49.980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you're aware of RA 10172 that you can amend entries in the registry?

04:13:50.540 --> 04:13:51.340
Marizza B. Grande: Yes, Your Honor.

04:13:52.280 --> 04:14:11.960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, pinasatong batas na to in the past 3-5 years lamang, pagtanggap yun ng Kongreso mismo hindi ba na hindi perfecto yung talaan sa civil registry? na pwedeng may pagkakamali sa petsa man ng kapanganakan, sa araw ng kapanganakan, o sa pangalang sinurat doon.

04:14:12.430 --> 04:14:26.810
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po, Your Honor. Ang mga corrections under the clerical error law, Your Honor, the RA-9048 and RA-10172 ay nire-reflect through an annotation po. So makikita pa rin po doon sa...

04:14:26.810 --> 04:14:27.010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Na

04:14:27.010 --> 04:14:28.390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi na kailangan dumaan sa Korte.

04:14:28.770 --> 04:14:29.490
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po Your Honor.

04:14:29.530 --> 04:14:42.470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero ang sinasabi ko nga lang po ang CRS ay hindi perfectong database kaya nga po binuksan ng Kongreso ang puwang para ma-amendahan o mabago yun dahil posibleng may mga pagkakamali po doon hanggang sa ngayon.

04:14:43.070 --> 04:14:43.950
Marizza B. Grande: Yes po Your Honor.

04:14:44.290 --> 04:14:51.190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Darating ba tayo sa panahon? Huling [unclear] Ms. Grande na nakaukit na sa bato yung data ng CRS na yun na

04:14:51.190 --> 04:14:53.830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: talaga yun, yan na yung totoo at wala nang pwedeng mabago pa?

04:14:53.830 --> 04:14:54.900
Marizza B. Grande: May

04:14:54.900 --> 04:15:14.360
Marizza B. Grande: mga programa na po yung PSA. Your Honor, like yung nidevelop namin ngayon na electronic CRVS. So upon birth, kailangan ma-register at ma-connect din po sa kanyang national ID. So siguro, Your Honor, mararating natin 3 to 5 years.

04:15:16.250 --> 04:15:24.590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Ms. Grande. If there are no other senator-judges that wish to make an interjection, we will excuse the witness.

04:15:27.940 --> 04:15:38.820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Going, going. Ms. Grande, you are excused. Maraming salamat po sa panahon, kooperasyon, at pagtugon sa katanungan ng magkabilang panig at gayon din ng mga senator-judges. You are excused, ma'am.

04:15:39.080 --> 04:15:41.560
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, if I may just be recognized, Your Honor.

04:15:41.800 --> 04:15:42.780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Mae.

04:15:42.860 --> 04:17:07.960
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. I'm making this manifestation, Your Honor, in response to the manifestation earlier made by the defense that as of this moment, they cannot yet disclose their position on whether the names appearing in the Acknowledgement receipts are real names or aliases, Your Honor. With all due respect, Your Honor, it's already a tad too late for the defense, Your Honor, to be adopting the position that these are aliases. As I've repeatedly manifested, Your Honor, they were already given the opportunity at the first time in the answer and second time in the pretrial, Your Honor. precisely be conducted pre-trial, Your Honor, so that the parties can lay their cards on the table. And on the basis of the issues defined during the pre-trial, the prosecution worked on its case. Your Honor, since the beginning of these proceedings, the defense has been invoking due process as if it... It's not only the defense who has the right to due process. Even the prosecution is entitled to due process. We are entitled to know what we are working on, Your Honor. The theories of their case, Your Honor. We're already at the 11th hour, Your Honor. Wala pa rin, Your Honor, [unclear]. Ano ba yung position, Your Honor?

04:17:09.080 --> 04:17:11.060
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May [unclear] ask to be recognized, Your Honor?

04:17:11.580 --> 04:17:12.640
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you done, Atty. Mae?

04:17:12.700 --> 04:17:13.560
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you your honor

04:17:13.900 --> 04:17:14.480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

04:17:14.920 --> 04:17:16.600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Sheila is recognized.

04:17:17.040 --> 04:17:54.260
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: I think, Atty., the counsel appears to be interested in finding out about the position of the defense but she may perhaps have neglected the basic and the most essential idea of a fair trial and that is For the prosecution to first discharge its burden of proof. And until the prosecution hurdles that burden, then the defense may even remain silent. So I will not dignify anymore these complaints of having allegedly

04:17:56.570 --> 04:19:02.500
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: failing to disclose the defense position, etc., etc., that this is already the 11th hour, that there has already been a pre-trial proceeding that should have laid the cards of the parties down. However, it is also basic and it is apparent and manifest before everyone, before this court. At sa ating mga manonood na hindi pa itong panahon para sa depensa. In fact, nasa pangalawang article pa lang po tayo ng prosecution. I respect the predicament. of the Good Counsel. However, siguro kung gusto natin ng fair trial, kailangang makita muna ng taong bayan ang ebidensya na sinasabi ng prosekusyon at hindi nagre-reklamo sa kung ano ang hindi na ipapakita ng Depensa precisely because this is not yet the time of the Defense to present its evidence or whether we will even present evidence if the proper time comes, Your Honor. Depende sa may papakita ng prosegisyon.

04:19:02.600 --> 04:19:04.480
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: If I may quickly respond to that, Your Honor.

04:19:05.020 --> 04:19:52.560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, Counsel. Unfortunately, we're trying to call one more witness. We'll try to abbreviate this by [unclear] ruling. That may be a proper subject Atty. Mae, for you to object to whatever the defense will do during the presentation of their evidence-in-chief, but at this juncture, neither can I force the defense to present their evidence-in-chief nor their theory because Atty. Sheila is correct in that they may even choose to file a demurrer and decide not to present any evidence anymore. [unclear] either their perceived weakness of the evidence presented or the absence of strong evidence. Is your next witness ready, Attorney Mae?

04:19:53.340 --> 04:19:55.260
Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May I turn over, Your Honor, the...

04:19:55.260 --> 04:20:02.320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, the lead prosecutor, the Honorable Luistro. If I can call you, Jinky is recognized.

04:20:02.640 --> 04:20:17.670
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Good afternoon, Your Honors. Before we proceed, Your Honor, may we request that Attorney Ray Robles be recognized once more. This is in relation to the testimony of former SDO of the Department of Education, Edward Fajarda.

04:20:18.030 --> 04:20:18.510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes.

04:20:19.710 --> 04:20:21.050
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: In that case, Your Honor.

04:20:21.170 --> 04:20:25.260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So we can dispense, if at all, if you can dispense with this witness already. Atty. Sheila?

04:20:25.420 --> 04:20:30.480
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: In that case, Your Honor, may also ask that Atty. Lindon Miguel Bacquel be also recognized. Thank you.

04:20:30.980 --> 04:20:31.540
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor.

04:20:31.720 --> 04:20:33.260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We're back to Atty. Lindon.

04:20:36.480 --> 04:21:25.490
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Pursuing the matter of the earlier discussion about the possibility of dispensing with the testimony of Mr. Fajarda, we would just like to request earlier while we were discussing the stipulations, Your Honor, the good counsel for the respondent pointed out the portions of the TSN. where he claims that the witness said that the funds were disbursed by Mr. Fajarda. And as a matter of procedural fairness, Your Honor, may we be allowed also to point out the provisions in the TSN where the witness, Mr. Fajarda, also said by himself that he actually gave or binigay yung pera or acknowledged that binigay niya yung pera. And there are four or five... 6 instances, Your Honor, in the transcript. And

04:21:25.490 --> 04:21:25.870
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: if we can

04:21:25.870 --> 04:21:26.950
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: just cite them, Your Honor.

04:21:27.910 --> 04:21:40.510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We have taken judicial notice of that, Counsel, and I believe that he did so, but that also means that from the point of view of Witness Fajarda, it seems like he is using the words interchangeably.

04:21:40.730 --> 04:21:43.250
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your Honor. We'll just, for the record, so that you can

04:21:43.250 --> 04:21:43.710
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: possibly

04:21:43.710 --> 04:21:44.870
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: refer to

04:21:44.870 --> 04:21:45.030
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: them.

04:21:45.030 --> 04:21:49.830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, at any rate, please proceed. Kindly cite it in the TSN. Kindly cite the relevant date and page

04:21:49.830 --> 04:21:50.130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: number.

04:21:50.130 --> 04:21:50.410
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Yes, Your

04:21:50.410 --> 04:21:50.630
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Honor.

04:21:52.340 --> 04:21:58.880
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: So that for the appreciation of the honorable senator-judges, can we also project the particular...

04:21:58.880 --> 04:22:00.360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, please, Attorney Ray. You may.

04:22:00.360 --> 04:22:00.540
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Thank you.

04:22:00.640 --> 04:22:54.940
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: We will... The first instance, Your Honor, is during the hearing of November 25, 2024. On page 83, Your Honor, the TSN itself has been previously marked as Exhibit [unclear] for the prosecution. And we are projecting the particular portion. This is an exchange between the late Congressman Romeo Acop and the witness. And the exchange went this way. So for the first quarter, kinuha lahat ni Colonel Nolasco at dinisburst niya in seven different locations. The answer of Mr. Fajarda, Your Honor, may hindi po iyan buong 37 na ibinigay sa kanya. Mostly weekly po yan. Eh, weekly, mostly, weekly.

04:22:57.030 --> 04:23:21.370
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: And the follow-up is, and what would be the average amount na ibinigay mo per week? There were some discussion and ultimately the witness said, eh sige po, your honor, nagre-range po siya sa 4, 5, 6, 4, 4 to 6 million po. That is the first instance, your honor. The second instance is on page 74 of the same TSN.

04:23:23.170 --> 04:23:36.230
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Representative Acop said, So kung nangangailangan ng confidential funds sa office ng DepEd sa security officer mo ibinibigay, the answer of Mr. Fajarda is yes, your honor.

04:23:38.130 --> 04:23:51.550
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: On page 77 of the same TSN, Representative Acop said, Okay, thank you. Pag binigay mo iyong pondo, is it cash? Mr. Fajarda, yes, your honor.

04:23:55.060 --> 04:24:11.220
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Likewise, your honor. On page 81 of the same TSN, there is this exchange. Yung in-cash ninyong cheque, inyong cheque. Ah, opo, yes, your honor, opo.

04:24:12.730 --> 04:24:23.660
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Winidro nyo, tapos binigay ninyo kay Colonel Nolasco, Colonel Dennis Nolasco. Yes, your honor. Pero hindi po buo lahat yun. Your Honor.

04:24:25.790 --> 04:24:50.250
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Your Honor po. And there's also a discussion between Representative Janette Garin and the witness. Okay. Siya lang ang binigyan mo, Mr. Fajarda. Yes, Your Honor. And finally, there is this exchange between Deputy Speaker David Suarez and the witness.

04:24:52.770 --> 04:25:41.460
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: The witness, the representative Suarez said, hindi, sino ang nag-designate kay Colonel Nolasco para i-disburse yung 37 million pesos every quarter? Mr. Fajarda, your honor, as part po ng trabaho niya po iyan eh, kasi confidential operations po, so sa kanya ko po i-disburse yung pera. Representative Suarez, opo, hindi... Hindi ninyo naintindihan yung sagot ko. Yung tanong ko, Mr. Fajarda, because you know it could be anybody there. So, my question is, sino ang nagbigay ng pahintulot o kapangyarihan kay Colonel Nolasco na mag-disburse noong pera? Mr. Fajarda, your honor, si VP Sara po.

04:25:44.820 --> 04:25:50.340
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Also, your honor, I would like to manifest that the pertinent discussion regarding

04:25:51.920 --> 04:26:31.120
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: Disbursement against giving the money could be found in the transcript on page 93 to 94 and page 304 to 306 of the transcript. Your Honor, with those manifestations, Your Honor, although we have a lot of questions for Mr. Fajarda, being the SDO, and I'm sure maybe the senator-judges would also have some questions. But in view of his state of health and as a matter of humanitarian consideration, we can dispense with the testimony of the witness.

04:26:32.560 --> 04:26:33.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Subject to

04:26:33.300 --> 04:26:34.780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: what was stipulated, Your Honor.

04:26:35.080 --> 04:26:40.800
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, just a quick observation regarding the transcript.

04:26:40.800 --> 04:26:42.080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may comment,

04:26:42.220 --> 04:26:42.820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Lindon.

04:26:43.020 --> 04:27:05.140
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We note that the terminologies mentioned In the portions read by the prosecution, the terminologies are supplied by the congressmen who interpellate the witness, Your Honor. And it did not come from the witness himself, Your Honor. That's the only

04:27:05.140 --> 04:27:06.160
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: observation, Your Honor.

04:27:06.160 --> 04:27:12.640
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: There are several instances where the terminology was used by the witness himself, Your Honor. Including the first one, Your Honor.

04:27:15.500 --> 04:27:19.920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Answered in the affirmative in relation to the question. But you are correct, counsel. I noticed that too.

04:27:20.120 --> 04:27:20.700
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Thank you, Your Honor.

04:27:21.540 --> 04:27:31.400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted. So, are you dispensing with the... Are you withdrawing rather the subpoena for Mr. Edward?

04:27:31.700 --> 04:27:48.200
Atty. Reynaldo Robles: In view of the latest medical update and the confirmation by the doctors of the Senate... As a humanitarian consideration, we are going to dispense with the testimony of the witness and we wish him well. Thank you.

04:27:48.200 --> 04:28:32.750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Having withdrawn the request for subpoena for Mr. Edward Fajarda, the presiding officer hereby orders the recall of the subpoena issued to him. And for the information of the Senator Judges, a letter was submitted through his counsel by Mr. Fajarda, Attaching a medical certificate thereto, Duly attested to and confirmed by our own Director for Medical and Dental here in the Senate that Mr. Fajarda would be required another 30 days to recover and recuperate from his stroke a month ago, I believe. So ordered.

04:28:35.950 --> 04:28:37.270
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please.

04:28:37.270 --> 04:28:39.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, the Honorable Luistro.

04:28:40.970 --> 04:29:13.280
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, considering the remaining time for today's trial, we respectfully move for the continuance of our presentation of witnesses. It therefore follows, Your Honor, that the next witnesses in the person of PNP Police Major [unclear], Attorney Sunshine Fajarda, and Mr. [unclear] of COA will be continued. Tomorrow, September 8, 2026, Your Honor.

04:29:14.420 --> 04:29:22.100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, I see the time as well, counsel. Before we adjourn, Chair would like to address some administrative matters.

04:29:26.210 --> 04:30:25.000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pursuant to the order issued by the Court on 26 August 2026, subpoenas directing the submission of documents on September 3 were issued and duly served on the name Banks, Investments, and Insurance Institutions on August 7, 2026. The following submitted the subpoena documents to the Clerk of Court, namely, from insurance and investment companies BDO Life, BDO Securities, FWD Life, Pru Life, BPI-AIA, Allianz PNB, First Union Plans Incorporated, Incorporated submitted a letter dated September 7 to the court attaching a certification that FUPI has been dissolved as of December 31, 2025 and that the named persons or entities maintained no plans or accounts prior to the dissolution on the part of the banks Asia United Bank, EastWest Bank, PNB,

04:30:26.710 --> 04:32:16.840
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Although PNB submitted a partial compliance and requested for an extension of time, Union Bank also submitted, although partially, and requested for additional time to submit. Pending compliance, Manulife also filed a request for a seven-day extension on September 3, 2026. Chair therefore makes the following rulings. Number one, the extension of time Asked for by Manulife, PNB, and Union Bank are granted but only until Thursday, September 8, 2026, without prejudice to the grant of a final extension upon request should the need still arise. All banks and financial institutions are directed to personally submit their compliance to the clerk of court. It is the court, not the subpoenaed institutions, which shall take charge of distributing copies of the documents to the parties. So ordered. In regard to, rather the clerk of court is also directed to compare the digital and hard copies to verify that the documented list contained in the financial institutions compliance are indeed the same. The clerk of court is hereby directed to furnish the parties not only with the USB of the documents submitted by the banks and insurance companies but also the hard copy. of these documents since we require the banks to submit. We just have to ask for some more time because we are sifting through the documents they submitted to us. It was not separated into three separate copies supposedly for the parties and the court. So we're the ones sifting through to make sure that both parties will have the exact same set that the court has.

04:32:23.370 --> 04:32:34.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. That would be all for the banks. Hopefully, we will be able to furnish the parties within the week. Would that be satisfactory, Attorney Sheila? Attorney, rather, the Honorable Luistro?

04:32:34.590 --> 04:32:35.690
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We are fine with that, Your Honor.

04:32:35.690 --> 04:32:36.850
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We submit to that, Your Honor.

04:32:37.010 --> 04:32:39.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any other matters you wish to discuss, Honorable Luistro?

04:32:39.750 --> 04:33:38.440
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Yes, Your Honor. We understand that in the order of presentation of Article 2, unexplained wealth was placed at the last presentation by the prosecution. Nevertheless, Your Honor, consistent to the compliance and manifestation filed by the prosecution on June 22, 2026, the prosecution exercises its prerogative to advance the presentation of evidence for unexplained wealth. This means, however, that we are not waiving the presentation of evidence for bribery. The only thing that is being changed, Your Honor, is the order of presentation. We will be proceeding to unexplained wealth first, after which we will end with a presentation of evidence for bribery, Your Honor.

04:33:38.440 --> 04:33:39.740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So

04:33:39.740 --> 04:33:54.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the statement of the Honorable Chua, which I saw a couple of days ago, is still being decided by the panel of prosecutors. Whether or not to drop, I think the word was used, bribery.

04:33:55.500 --> 04:34:08.980
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: moment your honor the decision is to maintain both articles in the presentation of evidence only that unexplained wealth will be advanced and it will be followed and we will end on bribery your honor

04:34:08.980 --> 04:34:09.240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: so

04:34:09.240 --> 04:34:12.720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: after you finish this article you will proceed to unexplained wealth

04:34:12.720 --> 04:34:13.040
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: that

04:34:13.040 --> 04:34:13.200
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: is

04:34:13.200 --> 04:34:13.900
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: correct your honor

04:34:13.900 --> 04:34:14.460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: attorney Sheila

04:34:14.460 --> 04:34:15.100
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: we

04:34:15.100 --> 04:34:30.240
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: will note that your honor i think it's a prerogative of the prosecution to do whatever it pleases with respect to the order of its presentation your honor But if the counsel is already done with her manifestation, I have just one, Your Honor.

04:34:30.460 --> 04:34:31.580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, counsel.

04:34:31.960 --> 04:35:06.520
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: With respect to Police Major Magay, the intended witness for tomorrow, we would just like to inquire from the prosecution if this witness will identify certain documents and if so, we will now request that we be provided with those documents that have not been marked or may have been marked but In the course of this trial and therefore we would not have hard copies of just so we can abbreviate the proceedings tomorrow and in the interest of time your honor thank you.

04:35:07.050 --> 04:35:15.270
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your honor please we will address the concern of the defense during the presentation of witness police major Magay, Your Honor.

04:35:15.370 --> 04:35:31.250
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: I respect that, Your Honor. In that case, we will also reserve our right to request for additional time to examine the documents, depending on the volume of documents that Police Major Magay will identify tomorrow.

04:35:31.250 --> 04:35:31.630
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I

04:35:31.630 --> 04:35:42.190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: presume, again, you're free to have your own respective strategies, counsels, but I presume that Major Magay will be

04:35:44.110 --> 04:35:49.810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: presenting his opinion with respect to the acknowledgement receipts. Would that be correct?

04:35:49.810 --> 04:35:51.050
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We

04:35:51.110 --> 04:35:52.570
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: confirm your honor.

04:35:52.710 --> 04:36:01.410
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which is a common exhibit of both parties except for a few. Again the court went over them already so except for a few it's all it's actually almost the same attorney Sheila.

04:36:01.750 --> 04:36:25.890
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That's precisely our concern, Your Honor, because if we recall, I also inquired last week if Police Major Magay will also identify the same documents that the NBI would have identified if the NBI representative were to be presented. But I think we did not get any answer, Your Honor. And so we are now at a loss.

04:36:28.150 --> 04:36:47.750
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: whether there would be any other new or additional documents that Police Major [unclear] will identify. Similar to the witness earlier from the Philippine Statistics Authority, we did not have any copies of the request dated June [unclear], 2026, Your Honor, at the time of the presentation.

04:36:50.090 --> 04:36:56.790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Luistro, what is the pleasure of, forgive me, I didn't see you, what is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo?

04:36:57.070 --> 04:37:42.260
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Mr. Presiding Officer, I have asked this question before and I would like to ask it again. It seems like we're finishing Article 1 now. We're moving. We're talking about Articles, I think, 3 and 4. The question, Mr. Presiding Officer, and I would like to ask the prosecution, are we going to see... Colonel Lachica and Colonel Nolasco here because I've been reading in the newspaper and news online that the prosecution is saying that they do not need to present Colonel Lachica anymore, Nolasco, when in fact, Mr. Presiding Officer, all of us here, senator-judges, would like to ask questions.

04:37:46.300 --> 04:38:14.020
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: May kinalaman ba ang vice president dito? May basbas ba siya? O binulsa mo lang? Ikaw lang ang tumira ng lahat na yan at wala naman kinalaman yung boss mo. We would like to ask the person himself, yung mga binigyan po ng pera, diba Mr. Presiding Officer? It's common sense. Binigyan kita ng pera, okay, binigay ng disbursing officer doon sa tao, tapos pinapirman niya kung sino-sino.

04:38:14.850 --> 04:38:20.370
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Gusto natin malaman na baka sila lang nag-usap-usap. Wala namang alam doon sa taas.

04:38:20.830 --> 04:38:38.790
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: So we'd like to cross-examine him here. Gusto po natin siya matanong. Ganun din po si Colonel Nolasco. Pupwede ba yun, Mr. Presiding Officer, if the prosecution is not intending anymore or do not have plans to present them here, Lachica and Nolasco, pupwede ba?

04:38:39.520 --> 04:38:49.780
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ang Korte mismo magpatawag sa kanila para matanong din namin si Lachica at Nolasco na ikaw, lahat kayong dalawa ay tinuturo na lahat ng ito.

04:38:49.840 --> 04:38:54.480
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Gusto nating malaman, Mr. Presiding Officer, ano ba talaga? What's the deal?

04:38:55.720 --> 04:39:16.530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Luistro, can you limit your answer to simply confirming the news article reports? that indicate that both Lachica and Nolasco will no longer be called by the prosecution. Or was that simply a decision arrived at that's good for that day and may still change until you rest?

04:39:17.940 --> 04:39:36.870
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, please. With all due respect to the senator-judges, but it is our humble submission that the allegation of misuse and misappropriation of confidential funds have been satisfied already by the testimony of the witnesses presented, Your Honor.

04:39:36.870 --> 04:39:37.150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So

04:39:37.150 --> 04:39:38.430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you won't present them anymore?

04:39:38.430 --> 04:39:39.690
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: That's your intention? That is correct, Your

04:39:39.690 --> 04:39:39.810
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Honor.

04:39:39.810 --> 04:40:05.180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now to answer the Honorable Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. We do not know yet if the defense will call Lachica and Nolasco because I believe they are listed too as a common witness supposedly by both parties in the pretrial order. So there may still be a chance. But should that not happen, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo, nothing prevents the court from calling a witness.

04:40:07.020 --> 04:40:32.140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not only as amicus curiae but also as a witness or even recalling a witness for that matter should the court decide at the proper time to do so but that would come after if at all the presentation of the evidence-in-chief of both parties. We allow them as much as possible to do it first and when we feel that there is a need then we can discuss it and put it to a vote if necessary.

04:40:32.700 --> 04:40:40.120
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: That is before we go to the unexplained wealth and bribery articles. Is that correct, Mr. Presiding Officer?

04:40:40.240 --> 04:41:05.910
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, that would be before we arrive at a decision, Senator-Judge Tulfo, if you feel like it's necessary for us to arrive at a decision on a specific article because that won't be part of the presentation really of the evidence of either party. In fact, should we decide to call either Lachica or Nolasco? He will not be examined by either of the parties who didn't call him.

04:41:06.170 --> 04:41:06.670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He

04:41:06.670 --> 04:41:13.410
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: will only answer to the queries of senator-judges because he is a witness called by the court and not by the parties.

04:41:13.730 --> 04:41:15.230
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

04:41:15.690 --> 04:41:20.290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Tulfo. Again, my apologies, Honorable Luistro. You were saying?

04:41:21.090 --> 04:41:43.480
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We were just to put on record, Your Honor, that the position of the prosecution not to present the security officers is anchored on the prerogative Or judgment, the right of the prosecution to decide on the witnesses and evidence to be presented, including The manner by which they will be presented, Your Honor.

04:41:43.580 --> 04:41:50.860
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And that right is confirmed by the Presiding Officer. You're well within your rights, Honorable Lead Prosecutor. Any other matters? Yes, Attorney Sheila.

04:41:51.080 --> 04:41:57.320
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, I believe that I have a pending request before the manifestation of the Honorable Senator.

04:41:57.460 --> 04:42:11.540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, before I recognize Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. Honorable Luistro, does the PNP... [unclear] document section or office have a separate report or finding from that of the NBI.

04:42:16.640 --> 04:42:21.780
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: I'm afraid, Your Honor, that I cannot address that question right now.

04:42:21.780 --> 04:42:23.520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If

04:42:23.520 --> 04:42:57.060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: there is, if you can't address it right now, if there is, I hope you will find out by the time you present the witness tomorrow so that you can furnish opposing counsel with a copy so that we won't need to give them time. to prepare for their cross because should they ask for time to prepare for their cross, should the documents be voluminous, the court will grant the respondent that time. So if you can afford them the opportunity to inspect the documents before, it would be appreciated by the court because it will save on the court's time.

04:42:58.060 --> 04:42:59.820
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We submit to that, Your Honor.

04:42:59.820 --> 04:43:00.480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank

04:43:00.480 --> 04:43:02.000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you. Any other points,

04:43:02.080 --> 04:43:02.540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsels?

04:43:02.540 --> 04:43:15.860
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We understand that, Your Honor. We just reserve for the record. Any objection that we might need to make at the time of the presentation of Police Major [unclear]?

04:43:15.940 --> 04:43:26.300
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And if at all, we will afford you the time, Attorney Sheila, that you need to cross-examine should the documents be not made available to you in due course and with enough time to prepare for [unclear].

04:43:26.300 --> 04:43:26.440
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank

04:43:26.440 --> 04:43:26.780
Atty. Sheila C. Sison: you, Your Honor.

04:43:27.780 --> 04:43:29.260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Luistro, that would be all?

04:43:29.440 --> 04:43:30.740
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: That would be all, Your Honor.

04:43:31.420 --> 04:43:43.470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There being no other further matters to be taken up, Trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, September 8th at 10 a.m. The session will be called at 3 p.m.