# September 7, 2026

Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Duterte

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjveW6hcUqc
Status: Reviewed working draft, revision 2

**[00:05:47.760] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
The Senate President, the Presiding Officer,

**[00:05:50.160] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
and the Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

**[00:06:16.510] Bantug**  
...

**[00:06:30.170] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Sergeant-at-Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

**[00:06:34.320] Alfredo Sotto Corpuz**  
All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:06:48.970] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator-Judge Alan Peter Cayetano.

**[00:07:05.360] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
2 Chronicles 7:14. If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Lord, many, many, many years ago, Lord Father God, Your people in Egypt thought they were forgotten, thought that they were worthless, thought that whether it is their culture, their actions, or kung simpleng kapalaran lang nila ang maging slaves po. Ang maging isang nation na hindi nakikita po ang pag-asa. But from a child who will be killed to the son of the Pharaoh, back to being a shepherd, you sent Moses. But Lord God, the 7 to 14 days journey from Egypt to the Promised Land, the 7 to 14 day journey from slavery to conquerors, turned out to be 40 years. It is said that this is so not because only of disobedience, but because one generation refused to think. Like conquerors, refused to submit to you but rather had that slave mentality. Even claiming in the desert that it is better to go back to Egypt because at least there is food and drink. Lord Father, it is 2026 and we are faced with an economic crisis, not only the Philippines, the whole world. We're faced with a crisis with our democracy, facing many, many corruption issues. We are faced with issues of accountability from the president to the vice president all the way down, Lord God, to our barangays. Lord, in 1906, after almost 400 years of Spanish rule, you decreed that we shift in our courts from Spanish to English. Exactly 40 years later, Lord God, we left the Commonwealth of the United States of America. to be an independent nation. Exactly 40 years more, we had the first peaceful people power revolution in the world. Lord, every 40 years it seems you have freed us for something and allowed us to conquer and enter. Lord, we pray that in 2026 you will make things clear to us despite our political persuasions.

**[00:10:04.550] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
We pray that you protect the integrity of this court.

**[00:10:08.010] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Not

**[00:10:08.330] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
only inside

**[00:10:08.950] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
this court, but external factors, Lord, even pressures targeted, Lord, not only at both parties, at the prosecution and the defense, but also at the senator-judges. We lift up to you our nation, Lord God, and humble ourselves. We pray that you will heal this land. In Jesus' mighty name. Amen.

**[00:10:26.980] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Amen.

**[00:10:30.940] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The clerk of court will now call the roll.

**[00:10:34.740] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Roll call of members. Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Cayetano Alan. Sen. Judge Cayetano Pia, Sen. Judge De La Rosa, Sen. Judge Ejercito, Sen. Judge Estrada, Sen. Judge Go, Sen. Judge Hontiveros, Sen. Judge Lacson, Sen. Judge Lapid, Sen. Judge Legarda, Sen. Judge Marcoleta, Sen. Judge Marcos, Sen. Judge Padilla, Sen. Judge Pangilinan, Sen. Judge Sotto III, Sen. Judge Tulfo Erwin. Senator-Judge, Tulfo Raffy, Senator-Judge, Villanueva, Senator-Judge, Villar Camille, Senator-Judge, Villar Mark, Senator-Judge, Zubiri, the presiding officer, Senator-Judge, Escudero,

**[00:11:20.380] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
the

**[00:11:20.900] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Senate President, Senator-Judge, Gatchalian.

**[00:11:25.750] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
With

**[00:11:26.350] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
15 senator-judges present, the Chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer. to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

**[00:11:42.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the September 2, 2026 Journal of the Senate, sitting as an Impeachment Court and shall consider the same as approved.

**[00:11:53.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The clerk will please call the case before the court.

**[00:11:56.580] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Case number 004-2026 in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:12:05.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Appearances.

**[00:12:07.120] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the public prosecutor, [unclear].

**[00:12:12.650] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for the respondent accused.

**[00:12:17.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Are you ready to call your witness, Honorable [unclear]?

**[00:12:20.170] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Your Honor, we received last night about the, or we were informed last night about the medical condition of SDO Edward Fajarda.

**[00:12:35.530] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
And I understand, Your Honor, that during the last hearing, we offered to make a stipulation with the defense, Your Honor. With that, Your Honor, may we request Attorney Ray Robles be recognized?

**[00:12:53.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For what, Honorable Chua? For the stipulation?

**[00:12:57.110] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
For the stipulation, Your Honor.

**[00:12:58.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Do you have that in writing?

**[00:13:01.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think we discussed in the last hearing that it should be in writing, submitted to both our opposing counsel and the court.

**[00:13:09.030] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We confirm, Your Honor, that we have received the request for stipulation.

**[00:13:13.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I

**[00:13:13.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
do not seem to have a copy. Did you furnish the court with a copy?

**[00:13:17.930] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Your Honor. We filed

**[00:13:19.230] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
it last week, Your Honor, Thursday.

**[00:13:23.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So this is only for Mr. Fajarda?

**[00:13:27.060] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:13:29.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Atty. Robles, Atty. Ray, you may proceed with your proposed stipulations. So, the counsel for respondent, be willing.

**[00:13:40.780] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor.

**[00:13:41.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To

**[00:13:41.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
stipulate on any of the enumerated stipulations on SDO Fajarda. Yes, Atty. Sheila.

**[00:13:47.400] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
May I ask permission for Atty. Lindon Miguel Bacquel to be recognized, Your Honor, for the purpose of stipulating.

**[00:13:54.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty.

**[00:13:55.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lindon.

**[00:13:55.520] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you.

**[00:13:56.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You are recognized, sir.

**[00:14:03.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Ray, you may proceed.

**[00:14:04.510] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. Good morning.

**[00:14:05.910] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor, we are making this request for stipulation out of due consideration for the health and well-being of Mr. Fajarda. In fact, we were going to make this last week so that there will be no need to subpoena him. But anyway, Your Honor, if I could proceed.

**[00:14:25.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May we proceed,

**[00:14:26.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel?

**[00:14:26.590] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Request for permission, Your Honor, to project the...

**[00:14:31.440] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Proposals for stipulation one by one for the benefit of the honorable senator-judges and the public.

**[00:14:38.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Permission is granted for the benefit of the public and the senator-judges. Again, to confirm, Attorney Lindon, you have a copy, right?

**[00:14:44.540] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:14:45.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. You may proceed, Counsel.

**[00:14:46.960] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:14:49.250] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Number one, na si ginaong Edward Fajarda ay tinalaga ng Respondent Vice President Sara Z. Duterte. nung siya ay kalihim ng Kagawaran ng Edukasyon bilang Special Disbursing Officer or SDO para sa confidential funds ng Department of Education noong taong 2023.

**[00:15:11.770] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, before we proceed, may we request the prosecution to make the proposals for stipulation in English, Your Honor, considering that the proposals we received are written in English, Your Honor. So that we don't get any contrary or differing interpretation regarding the stipulations, Your

**[00:15:34.880] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Honor.

**[00:15:35.260] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor, the proposal in English are projected on the screen and we are merely trying to translate it to Filipino so that the viewing public may understand.

**[00:15:46.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It is on the screen, Attorney Lindon, and if there are any deviations from the... Of the Tagalog-Filipino translation from their English proposed stipulation, the court will be mindful and take note of it and point it out.

**[00:16:01.420] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank

**[00:16:01.720] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
you,

**[00:16:01.980] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor.

**[00:16:02.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney Ray.

**[00:16:04.720] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
That is the first request, Your Honor. May we hear from the distinguished counsel for the respondent if they're willing to stipulate in that regard?

**[00:16:12.760] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate, Your Honor.

**[00:16:13.920] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank you. Number two, na bilang special disbursing officer, nag-encash si Ginoong Fajarda ng tatlong cheque bilang cash advance mula sa confidential funds ng Department of Education na may petsang February 20, 2023, April 19, 2023, at July 11, 2023. At ang bawat isa ay nagkakahalaga ng 37,500,000 pesos. Para sa kabuang halagang 112,500,000 pesos at ito ay pinakita ng kaukulang cheque, cash advance voucher at mga kaukulang records ng Department of Education at COA.

**[00:17:05.690] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
[unclear] whether or not counsel is willing to stipulate?

**[00:17:09.900] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate, Your Honor, but, uh, we can we also request for stipulation on defense exhibits 3, 27, and 57, your honor, as well as 4, 29, and 58-D, your honor. These are common exhibits, your honor. These are the Land Bank of the Philippines check ending 453, which is 3, D-I-3-DE, Land Bank of the Philippines check ending 964, which is D-I-27-DE, and Land Bank of the Philippines check number ending 2250 which is D-I-57-DE, Your Honor. Moreover, Your Honor, we would also request for stipulation of the disbursement vouchers dated February 20, 2023 which is D-I-4-DE. Disbursement voucher dated April 19, 2023 which is D-I-28-DE and disbursement voucher number 2307-10503 which is Defense Exhibits D-I-58-DE, Your Honor.

**[00:18:28.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
These are Common Exhibits Counsel, right?

**[00:18:31.140] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, correct, Your Honor.

**[00:18:32.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Ray?

**[00:18:33.360] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Willing to stipulate on our part, Your Honor.

**[00:18:35.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stipulated.

**[00:18:36.620] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you.

**[00:18:37.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney Ray.

**[00:18:38.260] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
4. Na ibinigay ni Ginoong Fajarda ang nasabing confidential funds kay Col. Dennis Nolasco na noon ay deputy commander ng Vice President Security and Protection Group or VPSPG.

**[00:18:58.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[00:18:58.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the requested stipulation is turned over na tinranslate sa binigay.

**[00:19:06.620] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, can we propose a different wording for this stipulation, Your Honor? The defense proposes that this stipulation be worded as SDO Mr. Edward Fajarda disbursed said confidential funds to Colonel Dennis Nolasco as a designated security officer, Your

**[00:19:31.310] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Honor.

**[00:19:31.750] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Insofar as the prosecution is concerned, Your Honor, since there is no showing, That there were proper evidence, document evidencing payment as far as we're concerned that was not a disbursement. So we are not willing to stipulate in that regard.

**[00:20:07.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes,

**[00:20:10.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
we can counsel. But may I ask, Atty. Ray? If I remember correctly, you can correct me if I'm wrong, Atty. Ray. Atty. Lindon, you can correct me too if I'm wrong. My recollection of the TSN, that's what distinguished what Mr. Fajarda said compared to [unclear], that he disbursed. Am I mistaken?

**[00:20:33.150] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
No, Your Honor.

**[00:20:35.470] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Mr. Fajarda has not yet testified, so we are relying on the video of Mr. Fajarda.

**[00:20:41.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm saying in the house.

**[00:20:42.450] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
He

**[00:20:43.010] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
said that he turned it over. He did not say disbursed, Your Honor.

**[00:20:48.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, I'm not sure. Attorney Lindon, do you confirm?

**[00:20:51.430] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, we note that the TSN dated November 25, 2024, particularly page 101.

**[00:21:03.990] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Edward Fajarda stated that he disbursed the confidential funds to the security officers.

**[00:21:10.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's what I

**[00:21:10.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
recall as well. Again, I read it. I did not watch the video.

**[00:21:13.570] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. We can

**[00:21:14.230] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
show the video, Your Honor. There are several times that he mentioned that he gave it to...

**[00:21:20.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Since the court took judicial notice of this already, both the video and the TSN...

**[00:21:27.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would the attorney rate be content or satisfied with the fact that let the court simply appreciate the distinction between turnover as worded by the prosecution and disbursed as worded by the

**[00:21:41.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
respondent?

**[00:21:42.630] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Well, Your Honor, we have a proposal so that we can agree to that, Your Honor. If the counsel for the respondent is willing to stipulate that Mr. Fajarda was not able to present, Any document evidencing payment in favor or executed by Colonel Nolasco then we will be willing to stipulate your honor.

**[00:22:06.810] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We are not willing to stipulate in that regard your honor but can we just read for the record the Considering that the prosecution is in the request for stipulation, they are relying as well on the statements of the witness during the House hearings. May we just read for the record the statement of the witness, the intended witness, Your Honor. For the record, in TSN dated November 25, 2024, page 101 thereof, the intended witness stated, Your Honor, as part po ng trabaho niya po, iyon eh, kasi confidential operation po. So sa kanya ko, i-disburse yung pera.

**[00:22:51.560] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor, there are numerous instances when that was discussed and in two other instances, Mr. Fajarda said that he merely turned over the funds.

**[00:23:01.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And I can also point out to page 74 of the same TSN that also makes mention of the fact that he disbursed it. So, can we leave this point and can we just agree that it was turned over to Nolasco? No, that Nolasco received the funds from Edward and that the court will appreciate the distinction between turned over and disbursed at the proper time. Would that be enough?

**[00:23:34.430] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
We submit your honor.

**[00:23:35.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon, would that be okay?

**[00:23:41.020] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
According to Mr. Edward Fajarda, your honor, he disbursed the...

**[00:23:45.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes,

**[00:23:46.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
we take note of that, and again, twice, if attorney Ray is correct, twice he said he turned it over, but I also see two occasions where he said he disbursed.

**[00:23:56.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[00:23:57.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
can we agree that Colonel Nolasco received the funds from Fajarda?

**[00:24:07.410] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can we add, your honor, in Colonel Nolasco's capacity as a security officer?

**[00:24:12.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would that be acceptable, Atty. Ray?

**[00:24:15.040] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. But can we also make it of record that there is no document evidencing payment to Colonel Nolasco, from Colonel

**[00:24:23.960] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Nolasco?

**[00:24:24.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Well, I can confirm that as of now, no evidence has been presented that it was received by Mr. Nolasco.

**[00:24:31.940] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Then we will submit, Your Honor.

**[00:24:33.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Lindon, acceptable?

**[00:24:39.650] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We will just, no, Your Honor, but we will just leave it to the appreciation of this honorable court as regards.

**[00:24:46.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It is without

**[00:24:48.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
prejudice to the respondent presenting evidence, counsel, that he very much like what Gina Acosta said, if I'm not mistaken, that Lachica signed an acknowledgement receipt na binawi niya afterwards at wala siyang kopya. So right now there is no evidence on record as of now that Nolasco indeed received the amounts from Fajarda.

**[00:25:14.320] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:25:15.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, move on, counsel.

**[00:25:16.840] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. Number 4, na ibinigay ni Ginoong Fajarda ang pondo kay Colonel Nolasco sa utos ni Respondent Vice President Duterte at ito ay inamin na ni Ginoong Fajarda sa pagdinig na isinagawa ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability ng House of Representatives. Noong pagdinig noong Noviembre 25, 2024.

**[00:26:09.040] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
The disbursement was based on the instructions of the Vice President, Your Honor.

**[00:26:14.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Can you repeat it,

**[00:26:15.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon?

**[00:26:32.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If you're agreeing on the word, if we're disagreeing on the words turnover vis-a-vis disbursement, can we just say that the funds were received by Colonel Nolasco upon the instruction of the Vice President to

**[00:26:51.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
avoid that?

**[00:26:52.180] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. Whether it's

**[00:26:53.540] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
turnover or...

**[00:26:55.330] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Received by.

**[00:26:56.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That it is received by. Again, taking note that the prosecution stands by its turned over quote-unquote words and the respondent stands by its disbursed word.

**[00:27:10.850] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. Either we'll leave it to the Honorable Court to appreciate whether it's turned over or disbursement as

**[00:27:23.940] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
long as it is upon the instruction of the respondent, Your Honor.

**[00:27:30.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Lindon, what do you say?

**[00:27:47.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can we modify the proposal, Your Honor, that it is based on the documents on record, Your Honor?

**[00:27:53.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is there a document evidencing the instruction given by the Vice President? I don't think so.

**[00:27:59.980] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
I don't think so, Your Honor.

**[00:28:06.940] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
We have a video, Your Honor, of Mr. Fajarda.

**[00:28:11.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Counsel, but without going into that yet. We're not going into that yet. Attorney Lindon?

**[00:28:17.560] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Can I ask for a minute to confer with you?

**[00:28:21.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You have a minute, counsel, but I won't declare recess. In the meantime, we will review the [unclear].

**[00:28:33.240] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate, Your Honor.

**[00:28:35.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Thank you, Atty. Lindon.

**[00:28:37.660] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank

**[00:28:38.020] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
you.

**[00:28:38.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Atty. Ray, No. 5.

**[00:28:40.220] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
No. 5, Your Honor, na ang Commission on Audit, Department of Budget and Management, Department of Interior and Local Government, Governance Commission for GOCCs, at Department of National... Defense Joint Circular Number 2015-01 ay nagtatakda ng mga patakaran patungkol sa pag-request, pag-release, disbursement at liquidation ng confidential funds at intelligence funds, pati na rin ang kaukulang tungkulin ng Special Disbursing Officer, Head of Agency at Agency Accountant kaugnay nito.

**[00:29:25.580] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, we have no problem with stipulating this item, Your Honor, but this is a matter of law, Your Honor.

**[00:29:32.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No,

**[00:29:33.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
aside from that, Attorney Ray, this is already stipulated to by respondent, if I'm not mistaken, as one of the common exhibits, JC2015-01, which is one of the identified exhibits that was previously requested for stipulation by counsel for respondent, which they already acceded to.

**[00:29:53.390] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor, I know that it is a common exhibit but I am not aware that it has been

**[00:29:57.050] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
stipulated.

**[00:30:00.000] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Number

**[00:30:00.980] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
6, na si Ginong Fajarda ay naghanda, pumirma at gumawa sa ilalim ng panunumpa ng mga certificates na may petsang March 31, 2023, July 30, 2023, at October 2, 2023 na nagpapatunay na ang confidential funds ng DepEd na ipinagkatiwala sa DepEd ay ginastos para sa confidential activities at ito ay kailangan at ginamit para sa legal na kadahilanan.

**[00:30:39.120] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate on that item, Your Honor. However, can we also request stipulation on the Defense Common Exhibits, Your Honor? Particularly certification dated March 31, 2023, which is D-I-6-DE, certification dated June 30, 2023, which is D-I-30-DE, and certification dated October 2, 2023, which is Defense Exhibits D-I-59-DE.

**[00:31:10.930] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, I think this was stipulated already by the parties as well with the corresponding markings made and or given by both parties.

**[00:31:18.930] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. That

**[00:31:19.530] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
goes without saying because we're also marking them in evidence.

**[00:31:22.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney Ray.

**[00:31:23.670] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank you. Number 7. na ang respondent na si Vice President Duterte ay nagpatunay at pumirma rin sa nabanggit na certifications sa ilalim ng panunumpanya sa batas or under oath.

**[00:31:37.260] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate, Your Honor.

**[00:31:39.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney Ray.

**[00:31:40.280] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Number eight, na nilagdaan ni Ginoong Fajarda ang nasabing mga certifications kahit na wala siyang personal na kaalaman kung papaano, kanino at para saan ang aktual na pag-disburse ng nasabing confidential funds ayon na rin sa kanyang pag-amin sa pagdinig na isinagawa ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability noong Noviembre 25, 2024.

**[00:32:13.040] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, May we counter-propose a simplified stipulation, Your Honor, that Edward Fajarda has no personal knowledge on the implementation of confidential operations where the confidential funds was utilized, Your Honor.

**[00:32:29.950] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor, it's not the same fact, Your Honor. Mr. Fajarda actually admitted this during the hearing of the Committee on Good Governance and Public Accountability. that he had no personal knowledge as to the actual disbursements of the funds.

**[00:32:47.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But

**[00:32:47.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
he said no personal knowledge as well, counsel, with respect to the implementation of the confidential funds, which includes, I presume, counsel, to whom the funds were actually disbursed. Wala nga siyang alam sa implementation eh.

**[00:33:05.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So would that subsume it, counsel?

**[00:33:10.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would

**[00:33:10.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
not having personal knowledge with respect to whom the funds were given be subsumed in no personal knowledge in its implementation?

**[00:33:19.750] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
As I understand it, Your Honor, the videos are subject to judicial notice anyway. We submit, Your Honor.

**[00:33:26.830] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, we will just subject our stipulation based on the record, Your Honor.

**[00:33:33.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Then we can

**[00:33:34.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
proceed.

**[00:33:35.460] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Number 10. I'm sorry, number 9.

**[00:33:42.900] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Na inihanda ni Ginoong Fajarda ang accomplishment reports na may petsang March 31, 2023, July 30, 2023, at October 9, 2023 kaugnay ng nasabing confidential funds at ito ay inaprubahan at nilagdaan ng Respondent Vice President Duterte.

**[00:34:07.850] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We can stipulate your honor but we also request stipulation of defense as Accomplishment Report No. 23-01 which is D-I-21-DE Accomplishment Report No. 2023-02 which is D-I D-51-DE and Accomplishment Report Number 2023-03 which is Defense Exhibits D-I-75-DE, Your Honor.

**[00:34:57.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So 9 and 10, so stipulated, noted. Proceed to number 11, Atty. Ray.

**[00:35:02.230] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Na ang mga nabanggit na certifications, accomplishment reports, at liquidation reports na ang kopya ay bahagi ng records ng pagdinig na ito ay tunay at wastong isinagawa ng mga taong may pirma dito.

**[00:35:17.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sorry, I should have included number 11 as well, Atty. Lindon, right?

**[00:35:36.730] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Number 12

**[00:35:38.330] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
na ang mga dokumentong ito ay na-identify ng isa pang naunang saksi na si ganoong Atty. Roderick C. Wamil, isang dating auditor. ng Commission on Audit, Intelligence and Confidential Funds Auditing Office at kaya ito ay maaring tanggapin bilang ebidensya

**[00:36:01.480] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
nang

**[00:36:02.660] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
wala ng karagdagang identification, authentication, or presentation nito mula kay Ginuong Fajarda.

**[00:36:09.540] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, subject to the appreciation of this honorable court.

**[00:36:13.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Subject to that qualification, so stipulated, noted.

**[00:36:18.160] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
At panghuli, na

**[00:36:20.260] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
ang

**[00:36:20.420] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
mga nabang...

**[00:36:21.450] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, if I may?

**[00:36:22.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Lindon.

**[00:36:23.170] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We did not stipulate on item 12, Your Honor. Our comment is that the proposal is a conclusion which is based on the appreciation of this honorable court and would be improper for stipulation, Your Honor.

**[00:36:37.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So noted. Court, the presiding officer corrects himself. No stipulation but so noted as to the comment. As to the nature of the proposed stipulation of counsel for the panel of prosecutors.

**[00:36:50.960] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank

**[00:36:51.260] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
you, Your Honor.

**[00:36:52.200] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
And lastly, Your Honor, na ang mga nabanggit na facts, statements, at documents ay nakatala na sa records ng kagalanggalang na impeachment court at ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, kaya't ang testimonyo ng saksi na si Ginoong Fajarda sa paglilitis na ito ay para lamang makadagdag o makakumpirma sa nasabing sa mga nabanggit or just in the nature to corroborate the cumulative or corroborative value, Your Honor.

**[00:37:26.640] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Same comment as Proposal No. 12, Your Honor.

**[00:37:29.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, subject to the Court's appreciation, counsel, not objected to but subject to the Court's appreciation, duly noted. Does that mean you are withdrawing already your request for subpoena, Attorney Ray?

**[00:37:42.750] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
If I may be given the chance to confer with the public prosecutors in this regard, we will manifest this afternoon, Your Honor, if we could entirely dispense with the witness already.

**[00:37:51.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[00:37:52.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So after you shall have come to a decision or arrived at a decision, and if you so decide to withdraw the subpoena, only at that time will the court recall the subpoena it issued. We will be deciding that within the day.

**[00:38:06.610] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank you very much, Your Honor. Thank you very much to the distinguished counsel for the respondent.

**[00:38:10.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Atty. Ray. Thank you, Atty. Lindon. The Honorable Chua is once again recognized.

**[00:38:17.910] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, may we request the counsel for the prosecution, Atty. Mae Divinagracia, be recognized for the presentation of our next witness, Your Honor.

**[00:38:32.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. May is recognized. Who will be your first witness, Atty. May?

**[00:38:36.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we would like to call to the witness stand our Tenth witness in the person of Ms. Marizza Grande. But Your Honor, before we proceed, Your Honor, may I kindly request for the box, Your Honor, for the midget or short person that I am?

**[00:38:52.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ah, yes. I think it's there, Attorney May. Somewhere.

**[00:39:02.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Sheila, you will be the one representing the respondent.

**[00:39:06.490] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor, I will ask permission to recognize Attorney Justin Nicol B. Gular, Your Honor.

**[00:39:13.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Justin.

**[00:39:20.600] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Good morning, Your Honor. Justin Nicol B. Gular, Your Honor, with the court's permission.

**[00:39:27.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You don't need a platform, Atty. Justin.

**[00:39:30.860] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
That would be correct, Your Honor.

**[00:39:35.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Are you ready, Atty. May?

**[00:39:36.630] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. But before we proceed to the offer of testimony, Your Honor, we would like to request the defense to stipulate on the matter stated. in our request for stipulation that we filed last Wednesday.

**[00:39:49.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We

**[00:39:49.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
will go there, counsel. Let's just situate first Ms. Grande to the witness stand. Kindly situate, Ms. Grande. Ms. Marizza Grande.

**[00:40:19.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly sit down. We will swear you in, Ms. Grande, once they are through with their stipulations and once we hear the offer because malay niyo, ma'am, hindi ka na kailangan, di ba?

**[00:40:34.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. May, you may proceed with your proposed stipulations. Do you confirm, Atty., that you received a copy of, Atty. Justin, that you received a copy of the proposed stipulations?

**[00:40:45.650] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
It's Justin, Your Honor.

**[00:40:47.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ah, Justin.

**[00:40:47.530] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, I do confirm. The defense does confirm that we received the request for stipulation dated September 2, 2026, Your Honor. And to abbreviate the proceedings, there are stipulations the defense is willing to accept.

**[00:40:59.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Do you want to go through it one by one? Or are there more stipulations you will accept or reject?

**[00:41:07.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
We can

**[00:41:08.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
just go straight, Your Honor, to the matters that they are willing to stipulate.

**[00:41:12.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[00:41:13.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Of the 14, of the 15, how

**[00:41:15.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
many are you willing to stipulate?

**[00:41:16.680] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor. With the court's permission, if I may be able to identify them, Your Honor. Your Honor, we refer this honorable court to page 1. We are willing to stipulate on items 1, item 2, item 3. and item 4, Your Honor. We would like to refer this honorable court to page 2. We are willing to stipulate on page 5.

**[00:41:37.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Number 5.

**[00:41:38.590] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Item number 5. Pardon, Your Honor. We are also willing to stipulate on item number 6, 8, 9, and 10, Your Honor. So to be clarified, Your Honor, on the second page, we are not willing to stipulate. The defense is not willing to stipulate on item 7 and item 11, Your Honor.

**[00:42:00.160] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
We would also now like to bring this honorable court's attention to page 3 of the request for stipulation. The defense is not willing to stipulate on item 12, Your Honor.

**[00:42:10.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Not willing?

**[00:42:10.980] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor. But we are willing to stipulate on items 13, 14, and 15, Your Honor.

**[00:42:19.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, Attorney May, I guess your offer will only cover items 7, 11, and 12. Would that be correct?

**[00:42:27.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:42:31.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Among others, Your Honor.

**[00:42:37.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
With this stipulation, may we request Your Honor that Ms. Grande be already sworn in.

**[00:42:42.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Atty. Ray, kindly swear in the witness. Kindly stand up, Ms. Grande.

**[00:42:48.360] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Please raise your right hand. You, Marizza B. Grande, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

**[00:43:03.240] Marizza B. Grande**  
I do.

**[00:43:08.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Napag-nasabihan na po kayo at napaliwanagan na, Ms. Grande, kaugnay ng paggamit ng anumang listening or hearing device habang kayo po ay tumitistigo at kung abutan po kayo ng lunch break kahit po sa panahon yan. May paliwanag po sa inyo?

**[00:43:26.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[00:43:28.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At naunawaan niyo po yun yung pinanumpaan?

**[00:43:31.000] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, I do, Your Honor.

**[00:43:32.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Witness, Atty. May.

**[00:43:34.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we are offering the testimony of Ms. Marizza B. Grande to prove the following. Number one, the PSA verified all 2,669 alleged payees of the OVP and DepEd confidential funds for 2022 and 2023, one name at a time. Sa kahilingan ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, dumaan sa apat na phase ang bawat pangalan. 1,992 mula sa OVP at 677 sa DepEd. Hindi ito pagsulyap sa listahan. Isa-isang paghanap ito sa buong CRS. Number two, 1,685 of the 2,669 alleged payees have no birth record, no marriage record, and no death record at all. 398 sa 677 pangalan ng DepEd at 1,287 sa 1,999 ng OVP. Walang maipakitang Estado na sila ay isinilang, nag-asawa, o namatay kailanman sa Pilipinas. Number 3. At least 152 of the 2,669 had a single matched entry in the CRS. Ibig sabihin, sa humigit kumulang 100 milyong records sa PSA, iisa lamang ang tumugma sa pangalan kaya natukoy ang mismong tao at nailabas ang certified copies ng kanilang civil registry documents. Number 4 At least 37 of those single match names were already dead. 32 mula sa OVP at 5 sa DepEd. Lahat may certificate of death sa CRS. Patay na sila ayon sa talaan ng Republika nang umano'y tanggapin nila ang confidential funds. Number five, at least 25 were children. Dalawampu mula sa OVP at lima sa DepEd. Six hanggang 16 na taong gulang noong 2023. At tatlo sa kanila ay wala pang three years old. In short, 6. Confidential funds were liquidated in the names of the non-existent, the long-dead, and children.

**[00:46:11.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang

**[00:46:12.630] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
mga pangalang ito ang nasa recipient lists at acknowledgement receipts ng OVP at DepEd sa 2022 at 2023. Mga taong ayon sa talaan ng PSA, walang record ng pag-iral, matagal ng patay o mga bata noon.

**[00:46:32.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The names and acknowledgement receipts matched the marriage certificates. The signatures did not. Naglabas ang PSA ng certified copies ng kanilang certificate of marriage. Iisa ang pangalan sa dalawang dokumento, ngunit magkaiba ang pirma. At ito ay mahihambing sa harap ng hukumang ito. And number eight, such other matters relevant to the instant impeachment case, particularly Article 1 and confidential funds.

**[00:47:04.430] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
With the court's permission, Your Honor, if I may comment.

**[00:47:07.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Justine, your comment?

**[00:47:08.530] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor. In particular to Purpose No. 7, Your Honor, we believe the witness is incompetent to testify on such matters, Your Honor. And just a general comment, Your Honor. It is just the observation of the defense that the prosecution has developed a penchant for introducing conclusions of law in their offer. While we understand... An offer of evidence is allowed and discretion is given to the prosecution. We believe, Your Honor, that the addition of explanations from the counsel is unwarranted and shouldn't be made in the offer. Nevertheless, all the purpose is subject to cross, Your Honor, with the court's permission.

**[00:47:43.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just to quickly respond, Your Honor, we've already repeatedly explained this, Your Honor. There's nothing in the rules that prohibit conclusions of law in the offer. In fact, in a host of cases... particularly Catuira, Your Honor, the Supreme Court already enunciated that the purpose of an offer is precisely to inform the court of the matters that the witness seeks, the testimony of the witness seeks to prove, Your Honor. So, necessarily, Your Honor, it would cover and include conclusions of law and fact.

**[00:48:17.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Duly noted, Duly noted, counsel.

**[00:48:20.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Also, Your Honor, on the comment on number 7, Your Honor, that Allegedly, this witness will be incompetent to testify on this particular matter, Your Honor. Again, also, there's nothing in the rule, Your Honor, that says that each issue shall be proven by the testimony of a single witness. In short, Your Honor, we respectfully submit that the testimony of this witness should be taken in conjunction with other pieces of evidence that the prosecution has already adduced.

**[00:48:54.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Duly noted again, counsel, please proceed. Let's not prolong this. Your witness, Attorney May.

**[00:49:01.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Grande, magandang umaga po.

**[00:49:04.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Good morning, ma'am.

**[00:49:05.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande, kasama sa inyong mga katungkulan bilang Assistant National Statistician ang pagbe-verify ng mga Civil Registry documents. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, paano po ba bine-verify ng PSA ang mga Civil Registry documents?

**[00:49:23.650] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang pag-verify po ng mga requests for civil registry documents ay dumadaan po sa apat na proseso po.

**[00:49:31.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano po itong apat na proseso na ito na inyong nabanggit?

**[00:49:34.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung una pong phase, ito yung pag-receive ng mga requests coming from different agencies at pag-route po dun sa appropriate office within the PSA, Civil Registration Service. Yung pangalawa po ay pag-verify ng mga Request of CRD civil registry documents gamit yung mga information na i-provide using the CRS database. At pangatlo po yung pag-consolidate ng lahat ng mga Verification results at pag-prepare ng official reply. Yung pang-apat po na phase, ito yung final review and approval ng mga appropriate signatories. In this case po, yung National Statistician and Civil Registrar General at yung pag-transmit sa requesting agency po.

**[00:50:25.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
By the way, Ms. Grande, kailan po kayo nagsimulang manungkulan bilang Assistant National Statistician?

**[00:50:32.660] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ako po ay na-appoint noong August 30, 2022 ma'am.

**[00:50:36.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bago po kayo naitalaga bilang Assistant National Statistician, ano po ang inyong trabaho kung meron man?

**[00:50:43.740] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ako po ay humawak na ng iba't ibang posisyon na may kinalaman po sa civil registration tsaka vital statistics.

**[00:50:51.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano

**[00:50:51.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
po itong mga katungkulan na ito?

**[00:50:54.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sa aking pong pagseserbisyo sa NSO tsaka sa PSA, ako po ay naging Division Chief, Registration Officer 5, Registration Officer 4, Archivist 2, at saka yung mga statistician positions, Stat 1 po and statistician aide.

**[00:51:13.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande, nabanggit niyo po na marami na kayong mga katungkulan na hinawakan pareho sa NSA ngayon ay PSA. So, Ms. Grande, ilang taon na po kayong naninilbihan or nanunungkulan sa NSO now PSA?

**[00:51:27.970] Marizza B. Grande**  
I've been in the service for more than 25 years na po.

**[00:51:41.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, again, isa rin po sa inyong katungkulan ay pag-manage ng mga civil registry documents. Paano naman po minamanage ang mga civil registry documents na ito ng PSA?

**[00:51:54.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang PSA po bilang central repository ng lahat ng documents ay merong civil registry system po.

**[00:52:02.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Maaari niyo po bang ipaliwanag sa amin kung ano po itong Civil Registry System?

**[00:52:06.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang Civil Registry System po ng PSA ay siya pong nagsisilbi bilang central repository ng lahat ng mga Documents na nareceive namin coming from the local civil registry offices. Kasama na rin po dito yung mga vital events na nire-report ng mga Philippine Foreign Service posts abroad. At saka yung mga Muslim divorces and including yung mga conversions and marriages po sa Sharia.

**[00:52:39.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
To be precise, Ms. Grande, ano-ano po itong mga dokumentong ito?

**[00:52:43.750] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang naka-store po sa ating PSACRS database yung mga vital events such as births, marriages, and deaths. Kasama na rin po yung ibang registrable documents affected po ng mga court orders at administrative corrections po.

**[00:53:05.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, Ms. Grande, bukod po sa kinakailangan ito sa ilalim ng batas, bakit po mahalaga na mairehistro ang mga kapanganakan, kasal, at pagkamatay?

**[00:53:17.780] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang pagpaparehistro ng births, marriages, and deaths ay mandatory po under Act 3753. Ito yung the Civil Registry Law. At kinakailangan po ito, number one, primarily as a proof of legal identity. At pangalawa po, ang lahat po ng mga registrable documents ay kailangang ipasa sa PSA at nagsisilbi ang mga certified copies na ini-issue po ng aming tanggapan bilang pagpapatunay at sa pag-transact sa iba't ibang government or private na transactions.

**[00:53:53.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bangit niyo po na kinakailangan itong mga dokumentong ito sa mga transactions. Ano naman po itong mga transactions na ito?

**[00:54:01.450] Marizza B. Grande**  
Karaniwan po sa pag-request ng mga civil registry documents, ang mga purpose po nila ay either ito ay gamit sa pag-enroll, school enrollment, pag-a-apply sa trabaho or passport, at iba pang pag nag-a-apply po sila ng mga valid identification card. at saka iba-iba pang purposes po para sa mga personal na transactions sa gobyerno o kaya sa private po.

**[00:54:27.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina po, Ms. Grande, may inilahad kayo na four-phase process. Ano naman po ang inyong personal na participation dito sa prosesong ito?

**[00:54:37.380] Marizza B. Grande**  
Bilang Assistant National Statistician, ako po yung nag-supervise ng Civil Registration Service. Ang lahat po ng requests at gayon din po yung pag- Yung mga draft reply at official na certification at verification results ay dumadaan po sa aking kamay for review.

**[00:54:58.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon Ms. Grande, paano naman po ine-ensure ng PSA o tinitiyak ng PSA na ang mga resulta ng verification ay accurate or tumpak?

**[00:55:12.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
So ang PSA Civil Registration Service po ay mayroong mga standard na procedure sa pagbe-verify ng lahat po ng requests coming from government agencies kasama na dito yung legislative bodies and judiciary at meron po kaming unit na in-charge po dito yung Request Verification and Services Processing Unit or RSVPU. na siya po nagbe-verify batay po sa mga information na binigay as against po dun sa record na sa aming database. At bago po ilabas yung official reply, gayon din po yung mga certifications ay dumadaan po ito sa iba't ibang layer po ng review.

**[00:55:57.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande, nabanggit mo rin kanina na may mga requests na nagmumula sa Legislative Branch. Ngayon Ms. Grande, kung iyong maaalala at kung meron man, ano-ano itong mga requests na natanggap ng PSA mula sa Legislative Branch noong December or noong 2024?

**[00:56:17.240] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sometime po in November and December, meron po kaming nareceive na letter request from the Honorable

**[00:56:26.080] Marizza B. Grande**  
Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through its chairperson, Jewel Chua.

**[00:56:32.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Tungkol saan naman po itong mga requests na ito?

**[00:56:36.040] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung request para i-verify kung may civil registry document ang isang Mary Grace Piatos.

**[00:56:45.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At paano naman po kayo pamilyar sa mga requests na ito?

**[00:56:48.700] Marizza B. Grande**  
As binanggit ko po kanina, yung mga requests at yung mga official reply ay dumadaan po sa akin sa pagre-review po.

**[00:56:59.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, punta tayo dun sa November 2024 request. Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng inyong verification?

**[00:57:10.340] Marizza B. Grande**  
Alinsunod dun sa request sa November 2024.

**[00:57:13.800] Marizza B. Grande**  
Base po doon sa information na ibinigay at sa aming pong database. Wala pong record ng kapanganakan, walang record ng kasal, at wala rin pong record ng kamatayan ang isang Mary Grace Piatos po.

**[00:57:28.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po ang ginawa ng PSA pagkatapos magresulta ng negative ang inyong verification?

**[00:57:36.330] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang aming pong opisina through Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa ay... nag-submit po, nag-issue ng letter plus certification dated November 5, 2024 sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through Honorable Chua po.

**[00:57:57.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, at this point, may we request for continuing authority to confront the witness with the documents that she would mention, she mentioned and she would mention in the course of this proceedings, Your Honor, and At the same time, a continuing authority to flash on the screen the relevant portions of those documents.

**[00:58:19.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted, and insofar as assisting counsel approaching the witness, similar authority is granted to counsel for the panel of prosecutors to also assign assisting counsel to approach the witness.

**[00:58:30.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:58:31.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, Counsel.

**[00:58:32.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, Ms. Grande, pinapakita namin sa inyo ang isang letter na may petsang November 20... 5-20-24 na may kalakip na certification na may kaparehong petsa. Ano ho ang kaugnayan ng mga dokumentong ito dun sa letter at certification na inyong nabanggit kanina?

**[00:58:54.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung binabanggit ko po na reply letter po ng PSA dated November 25, 2024 at ang certification po na in-issue namin.

**[00:59:04.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we respectfully manifest that the witness was shown and has identified the letter and certification both dated November 25, 2024 which our prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-A and P-I-24-A-1 respectively.

**[00:59:29.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, saan po dito sa certification makikita ang verification results ninyo sa isang nag-angalang Mary Grace Piatos?

**[00:59:40.030] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po ay makita dun sa certification na nag-iisa pong pahina kung saan naka-indicate po dito yung bawat resulta ng aming verification per type of document.

**[01:00:00.000] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Nevertheless, Your Honor,

**[01:00:02.400] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
I think these are matters stipulated by the parties already, Your Honor. Particularly in the offer of stipulation, item number 13, Your Honor, we have already stipulated the defense for that matter that the signatures appearing on documents are signatures of the PSA officials whose names appear thereon, Your Honor. Just a humble suggestion, Your Honor. Maybe this can contribute to abbreviate the presentation of attorney May.

**[01:00:26.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes,

**[01:00:27.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor. That's the reason, Your Honor, we already dispensed with the identification of the signatures, Your Honor. But I will be propounding questions relating to this document, Your Honor. That's why this document is being flashed on the screen.

**[01:00:39.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The comment of attorney Justin is noted. You may proceed, counsel.

**[01:00:43.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande, dito sa certification na ito, particularly dyan sa table, may makikitang COLB, Negative Record of Birth in the PSA CRS Database. Ano po ba ang ibig sabihin nito?

**[01:00:57.350] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ibig pong sabihin nito, base po sa information na Mary Grace Piatos, wala pong record of birth. na nakita sa aming po PSA database.

**[01:01:08.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kasunod naman po yan, meron ding makikitang COM negative record of marriage in the PSA CRS database. Ano po bang ibig sabihin yan?

**[01:01:17.870] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ibig sabihin po nito, based po sa CRS database, wala pong record of marriage si Mary Grace Piatos.

**[01:01:27.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At last, meron din pong nakasaad dyan na COD negative record of death in the PSA CRS database. Ano po bang ibig sabihin ito?

**[01:01:36.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
Again po, based po sa information sa aming CRS database, wala pong record ng death si Mary Grace Piatos.

**[01:01:45.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, sa makatwid, batay po sa verification ng PSA, ano pong masasabi ninyo tungkol sa records ni Mary Grace Piatos sa PSA?

**[01:01:55.640] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa aming CRS database, wala pong nangangalang Mary Grace Piatos sa aming record.

**[01:02:03.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon Miss Grande, pumunta naman po tayo dun sa request na sinasabing ninyong natanggap ng PSA noong December 2024. Ano po ba itong mga requests na ito?

**[01:02:15.200] Marizza B. Grande**  
Nakatanggap po kami ng another request na may dalawang set ng listahan na pinabe-verify po ng House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

**[01:02:29.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bali Ms. Grande, ilan pong request ang natanggap ninyo noong December 2024?

**[01:02:34.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Dalawa po itong letter request ma'am, December 5 and December 8.

**[01:02:38.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sino po? Kanino po nanggaling ang request?

**[01:02:41.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po ay galing sa Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability through its Chairperson, Honorable [unclear] po.

**[01:02:57.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, for the record, the letters referred to by the witness is prosecutions. Exhibit P or our prosecution's exhibits P-I-24-B and P-I-24-D respectively.

**[01:03:16.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon Ms. Grande, tungkol saan naman po ang mga requests na inyong natanggap?

**[01:03:20.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang request po ay para i-verify ang existence ng mga civil registry documents ng listahan. Yung una po, ito po yung 677 na DepEd Payees po.

**[01:03:38.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po yung pangalawang listahan na inyong nabanggit? Sabi niyo po kanina may dalawang listahan nakalakip dun sa dalawang requests, letter requests na inyong natanggap.

**[01:03:47.270] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung isa po ay para naman po i-verify yung mga existence ng civil registry documents ng OVP list of payees na nasa 1,992.

**[01:03:59.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po ang ginawa ng PSA matapos matanggap ang dalawang letter requests na may kalakip na dalawang listahan na inyong nabanggit?

**[01:04:09.080] Marizza B. Grande**  
Following po nung standard procedure po namin, gamit ang mga information na ibinigay, ito po ay vinerify as against dun sa records po sa aming PSA database po.

**[01:04:22.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Miss Grande, kapag sinasabi po ninyong binerify, Ano po mismo ang ginagawa ng PSA?

**[01:04:30.000] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa listahan na binigay ng mga pangalan, isa-isa namin po hinanap ito sa aming database. Gamit yun sa birth records at saka yung marriage at saka yung death records po.

**[01:04:43.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bakit po ba importante na isama sa pag-check ninyo or pag-verify ang marriage records?

**[01:04:51.570] Marizza B. Grande**  
Una po, meron din po kasing mga information na nagbabago na yung mga surname. Halimbawa kung married na, so tinignan din po namin po ito. At saka yung mga nagpapakasal para matrace din po kung may existence ng civil registry records.

**[01:05:06.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At bakit nyo naman po sinama sa inyong pag-verify ang mga death records?

**[01:05:11.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Aside from the fact na hiningi po ito ng committee, gusto rin po natin makita na may kopya ng death certificate. Kung maaari dahil meron din pong mga hindi nakarehistro na birth certificate pero may kopya ng death certificate.

**[01:05:29.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman pong naging resulta ng verification ng PSA?

**[01:05:33.180] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa mga certification na in-issue po namin dated December 9 and dated December 11, if I may request po your honor na... to check doon sa summary tables which we prepared to be able to share with you the accurate information nung tabulation na ginawa namin sa verification po.

**[01:05:57.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You

**[01:05:57.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may

**[01:05:57.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
refer

**[01:05:58.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to the document, Ms. Grande.

**[01:06:01.110] Marizza B. Grande**  
I made the summary table, Your Honor, nung lahat po ng results nung mga verification po namin.

**[01:06:08.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may refer to that table, counsel. Attorney Grande, rather. Rather, Ms. Grande.

**[01:06:16.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsel may approach at any time.

**[01:06:19.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we will also be requesting the marking of Ms. Grande's summary as Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-H.

**[01:06:29.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
This has not yet been previously marked, Atty. May.

**[01:06:32.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Not yet, Your Honor.

**[01:06:34.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Do you have a copy, Atty. May?

**[01:06:37.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. Sorry, the copy is with the witness, Your Honor, Ms. Grande.

**[01:06:44.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Madami ba yan, Ms. Grande?

**[01:06:47.350] Marizza B. Grande**  
Actually sir, your honor, the summary table contains three pages but the actual information are also printed for reference.

**[01:07:00.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes,

**[01:07:00.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I saw that. So three pages.

**[01:07:05.630] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your honor.

**[01:07:07.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, attorney Justin.

**[01:07:08.750] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, your honor. The defense would just like to put on the record that we do not have copies of the summaries that is being

**[01:07:17.700] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
testified upon or produced by the witness for today, Your Honor.

**[01:07:21.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Neither do we, counsel. Kindly furnish us with a copy, Attorney May, later on, during the break, perhaps, during the lunch recess.

**[01:07:28.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
We will do that, Your Honor.

**[01:07:29.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Also, counsel, for the respondent, Attorney May. Please proceed.

**[01:07:37.160] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa verifications po namin, dun sa 677 na listahan ng [unclear], out of the 677 po, nakita namin na 398 po dito ay walang record ng kapanganakan, walang record ng kasal or kamatayan.

**[01:07:58.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano pa po ang naging resulta kung meron man? O ano pa po ba ang ibang inininyong nahanap dun sa inyong verification kung meron man?

**[01:08:07.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Doon naman po sa Certificate of Live Birth, 405 po dito ay walang record of birth, 443 ay walang record of marriage, at 507 po ay walang death records.

**[01:08:22.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pagkatapos po ng inyong verification, ano naman po ang opisyal na hakbang na ginawa ng PSA kung meron man?

**[01:08:29.640] Marizza B. Grande**  
The PSA po, through the Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa, ay nagpadala po ng letter and certification that reflects all the results of our verification to the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability po. Dated December 8, 2024.

**[01:08:50.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your

**[01:08:50.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Honor, for the record. The documents identified by the witness, particularly the letter dated December 8, 2024, and certification dated December 8, 2024, are prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-C and P-I-24-C-1.

**[01:09:11.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande, kabilang po dito sa 677 supposed payees, Nakalista sa certification na ito na may petsang December 8, 2024, makikita ang pangalang Jason Ramos sa page 56. Ano po ang resulta ng verification para sa pangalang ito?

**[01:09:45.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa verification sa CRS database po, si Jason Ramos ay... Meron pong 907 na most likely match records of births in the PSA database. At meron din po siyang 305 most likely match records of marriage and 53 most likely match records of death in the PSA database.

**[01:10:12.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
[unclear], simple terms, ano po ang ibig sabihin kapag ang isang pangalan ay maraming most likely match records?

**[01:10:21.920] Marizza B. Grande**  
based po sa verification sa database, meron pong tumutugma sa ganyang pangalan na dalawa or higit pa sa aming database.

**[01:10:31.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ano naman pong significance niyan relative to that particular name? In this case, the name Jason Ramos.

**[01:10:40.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ibig pong sabihin, ang pangalan na Jason Ramos ay common name na nagre-resulta sa Maraming several records sa aming database na ibig sabihin pwedeng is two or more na persons po.

**[01:10:55.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Tingnan naman po natin ang pangalang Abigail Deomampo na makikita rin sa certification na inyong in-identify.

**[01:11:06.340] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa result ng aming verification po, si Abigail Deomampo ay may isang Most likely match record po na nasa CRS database.

**[01:11:17.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In simple terms naman, Ms. Grande, ano po ang ibig sabihin kapag iisa lamang ang most likely match record para sa isang pangalan?

**[01:11:25.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ibig pong sabihin, out of the 143 million na birth records po na nasa database, meron po nag-iisang record pertaining to Abigail Deomampo sa CRS database po.

**[01:11:39.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman pong kahalagahan yan? In relation to that particular name, in this case, Abigail Deomampo.

**[01:11:49.630] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ibig sabihin po ay nag-iisa na record ang nasa CRS database. Kumbaga ito po ay unique record po or single match na nasa database.

**[01:12:02.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi niyo po, nabanggit niyo po yung single match or single match and single match. Ano naman pong ibig sabihin yan?

**[01:12:10.470] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang single match entry, as I've mentioned po, ay unique record na may exact na information such as that, yung example si Abigail Deomampo. So, nag-iisang Abigail Deomampo na birth record ang nag-i-exist sa CRS database po.

**[01:12:26.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Maliban po sa single match entry, ano pa po ba ang ibang pwedeng maging resulta kung meron man ng inyong verification?

**[01:12:36.000] Marizza B. Grande**  
[unclear] po yung pwedeng results ng aming verification. So aside from the single match na binanggit ko po, yung multiple matches na yung kagaya po kanina. And the other one po yung no record o yung tinatawag namin na negative record sa database, which means wala pong nage-exist na record sa aming pong database.

**[01:12:59.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, pumunta naman po tayo dun sa nabanggit niyong second list na kalakip nung letters na natanggap ninyo nung December.

**[01:13:09.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng verification niyo?

**[01:13:13.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
So following our standard procedure po ay nagpadala po ang PSA ng letter dated December 11 at Kasama po dito yung mga certifications na results ng aming verification. And ito po yung summary ng mga aming verification. Out of the 1,992 na listahan ng OVP list of payees, ay nakita natin na 1,287 po ang walang record of birth, walang record of marriage or death na nasa database po.

**[01:13:53.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano pa po ba ang ibang naging resulta ng inyong pagkahanap or verification kung mayroon man?

**[01:13:59.500] Marizza B. Grande**  
Out of the 1,992 po, 1,322 ang wala pong record ng birth, 1,456 naman po ang walang record of marriage, at 1,593 po ang walang record of death po.

**[01:14:18.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina po, Ms. Grande, nabanggit nyo rin at pinalawanag ninyo na ang verification ay maaaring magresulta either in a multiple matched entry, single matched entry, or no record entry. Doon po sa inyong pag-verify or base sa mga requests na inyong natanggap, ilang single matched entry po ang inyong vinerify?

**[01:14:43.230] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa na-receive namin na request, nasa 152 po yung aming [unclear] na single match entry.

**[01:14:51.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Ngayon po, ano naman po yung naging official na action ng PSA matapos makumpleto ang verification?

**[01:14:59.240] Marizza B. Grande**  
So, pagkatapos po ng verification, kami po ay nagpadala ng letter request sa committee.

**[01:15:09.530] Marizza B. Grande**  
But before that po ay ni-review namin yung mga results as I've mentioned a while ago. Part of the review is pinagbasihan dun sa mga RSVPU na log sheet versus the certification and further re-verification conducted po sa CRS database for some names na medyo unusual po siya.

**[01:15:38.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, kanina may nabanggit kang certification. or certifications, nalawang certification na nag-reflect or nagpapakita ng mga resulta ng inyong verification sa mga supposed DepEd and OVP payees. Ngayon, in the process of your verification, ikaw po personally, ano pang hakbang ang inyong ginawa kung mayroon man?

**[01:16:06.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
As I've mentioned po, ako po ay nag-re-verify some of the names listed which I find na unusual doon po sa mga certifications po.

**[01:16:16.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bakit niyo po nasabi na unusual yung mga pangalan na inyong re-verify?

**[01:16:22.550] Marizza B. Grande**  
Nag-run through lang po ako doon sa mga listahan and I find it unusual because unique po yung mga names po na ito and conducted a re-verification using the database po.

**[01:16:36.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano po ba itong mga pangalan na nabanggit nyo? You found unusual.

**[01:16:43.710] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung naalala ko po dito, yung pangalan nila Arthur Baon, Beverly Claire Pampano. So yung mga pangalan po na yun, [unclear], si Charles Sampaloc Jr., ilan lang po sa mga pangalan na tinignan po. Kasama din po dito yung kay Maxine Callos.

**[01:17:06.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, may I invite your attention to the screen. May papakita ko sa inyong iba't ibang mga pangalan. Ang una ay ang pangalang Arthur Baon. Ano po ang kinalaman nitong Arthur Bao na ito sa mga pangalang sinabi ninyo kanina na sa tingin nyo ay unusual?

**[01:17:29.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
Isa po siya sa benerify namin at based po sa CRS database, wala pong kopya ng birth, marriage, or death certificate.

**[01:17:38.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, punta naman tayo sa susunod na pangalan. I request the tech booth. Ngayon, pinapakita ko sa inyong pangalang Ralph Josh. Bacon, ano naman po ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina that you found unusual?

**[01:18:02.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa benerify po namin under [unclear] at wala rin po siyang record ng birth marriage or death certificate po.

**[01:18:14.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Susunod, pinapakita ko naman sa inyo ang pangalang Beverly Claire Pampano. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina?

**[01:18:28.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama rin po sila sa Bineripay ko na pangalan na under po sa OVP list at wala pong record ng birth, marriage, and death certificate po.

**[01:18:39.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Mathew N. Keso. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nito dun sa mga pangalang nabanggit ninyo kanina?

**[01:18:50.670] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama rin po dun sa verification at nag-resulta po siya ng no record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death.

**[01:18:59.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang susunod naman po ay ang pangalang Maxine Callos. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan nito dun sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo kanina?

**[01:19:10.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa OVP list of payees at nagdisulta po ng verification na walang record of birth, walang record of marriage, at walang record of death.

**[01:19:22.530] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Susunod ay ang pangalang Charles Sampaloc Jr. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nito? Pangalang ito, dun sa mga pangalang na mention nyo kanina.

**[01:19:33.820] Marizza B. Grande**  
Isa rin po yan sa benerify ko na wala pong record of birth. No record of marriage at no record of death po.

**[01:19:40.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Saan po makikita yung mga verification results na binabanggit ninyo?

**[01:19:46.070] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito pong mga pangalan po na ito ay nasa listahan po ng OVP list doon sa 1,992 po.

**[01:19:53.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Maliban po doon sa mga pangalang nabanggit ninyo na, ano pa po ba kung meron man ang ibang pangalang nakakuha ng inyong attention for being unusual?

**[01:20:02.770] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang nare-recall ko po yung dalawang...

**[01:20:07.960] Marizza B. Grande**  
Xiaome Ocho, and Dan Rick Otso.

**[01:20:11.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let me again invite your attention to the screen. Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Xiaome Ocho. Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito sa mga pangalang binanggit, dun sa dalawang pangalang binanggit ninyo?

**[01:20:25.630] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama po siya sa listahan ng OVP Payees po na walang record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death po.

**[01:20:34.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Susunod ay ang pangalang Dan Rick Otso. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman ng pangalang ito dun sa dalawang pangalang nabanggit ninyo?

**[01:20:48.540] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po ito sa binerify ko na wala pong record of birth, no record of marriage, at no record of death po.

**[01:20:56.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Ms. Grande, maliban dyan sa mga pangalang inyong nabanggit na ano pa kung meron man ang mga pangalan na nakakuha ng inyong pansin o nakaagaw ng inyong pansin bilang unusual?

**[01:21:08.410] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang nare-recall ko po yung tatlong pangalan, yung Toman Panda, Timon Angelo Pusa, at saka yung Tina Maching.

**[01:21:18.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, ngayon pinapakita ko ulit sa inyo sa screen. Kung maaari nyo lang pong tingnan ang screen, ang pangalang Toman Panda. Ano po bang kinalaman ang pangalang ito sa mga pangalang binanggit nyo, kakabanggit nyo lang?

**[01:21:29.870] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa binerify na walang record of birth, no record of marriage, and no record of death.

**[01:21:37.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Susunod po ang pangalang Timon Angelo Pusa. Ano naman pong kinalaman nito sa mga pangalang kakabanggit nyo lang?

**[01:21:50.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Isa rin po yan sa binerify namin na walang birth, walang marriage at walang death certificate po.

**[01:21:56.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At last ay ang pangalang Tina Maching. Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan nito sa mga pangalang binanggit ninyo?

**[01:22:08.570] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya dun sa binerify namin sa listahan na wala pong record ng birth, marriage, at death certificate.

**[01:22:16.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, matapos ang naunang verification ng PSA sa mga pangalang lumabas sa DEPED at OVP list of supposed payees, ano pa po ba ang ibang request na natanggap ng PSA kung meron man mula sa House of Representatives?

**[01:22:34.650] Marizza B. Grande**  
Nag-send po ang House of Representatives ng isa pa pong letter addressed to our Undersecretary Claire Dennis Mapa noong June 25, 2026 po.

**[01:22:47.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Tungkol saan naman po itong letter request na ito?

**[01:22:50.970] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang letter po na ito ay mula sa chairperson ng lead public prosecutor. Ang nire-request po niya na i-re-verify. yung mga previously civil registry documents na may single match entry doon po sa na-verify po namin at mag-issue ng certified copies ng mga civil registry documents.

**[01:23:14.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Paano po kayo pamilyar dito sa dokumentong ito?

**[01:23:18.670] Marizza B. Grande**  
Again po, as Assistant National Statistician, I supervise po yung RSVPU and yung mga requests including yung mga certifications and the official reply po ay dumaan po sa akin for review po.

**[01:23:34.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ipinapakita namin sa inyo ang isang letter dated June 25, 2026. Ano po ba ang kaugnayan nitong letter na ito dun sa letter na inyong nabanggit?

**[01:23:50.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung binabanggit ko po na letter, ma'am.

**[01:23:53.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, for the record, the witness just identified Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-G-5.

**[01:24:10.370] Marizza B. Grande**  
Following po yung standard procedure po namin, kami po ay nag-re-verify nung mga nasa listahan na single match entry as provided po doon sa annexes po. And we issued certified copies ng mga corresponding na civil registry documents generated from the system po.

**[01:24:42.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sorry, Your Honor. Can I just have a minute to confer with my co-counsel?

**[01:24:46.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so, counsel.

**[01:25:07.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina na, banggit niyo po na nag-issue kayo. ng certified true copies of documents bilang response dun sa letter request. Maliban po dun sa mga certified true copies, ano po ba ang in-issue pa ng PSA kung mayroon man?

**[01:25:22.920] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama po dito yung resulta nung verification ng single match entry na mga marriage certificate po.

**[01:25:31.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Saan po nakapaloob itong resulta? Ang verification ng single match entry.

**[01:25:37.920] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang PSA po through Undersecretary Mapa ay nagawa ng official reply dated June 26, 2026 kasama po yung mga listahan ng verification ng mga results po namin and some omnibus certifications po.

**[01:25:57.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, pinapakita namin sa inyo. Ang isang letter na may petsang June 26, 2026 at may naka-attach na list of recipients with available civil registry documents at mga certified true copies ng iba-iba ang mga dokumento. Ano po ang kinalaman o kaugnayan nitong mga dokumentong ito doon sa nabanggit ninyong letter, omnibus certification at certified copies of documents?

**[01:26:41.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung official reply po ng PSA kasama yung mga list of recipients at yung mga omnibus certifications. Ito naman po yung mga...

**[01:26:55.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
For the record, Your Honor, the witness just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-G, P-I-24-G-1, P-I-24-G-3, P-I-24-G-2, And P-I-24-G-4. Miss Grande, dun po sa letter at certification or letter at list of recipients with available civil registry documents na inyong in-identify kanina, meron din pong nakalakip na iba't ibang certified true copies. Ano pong kinalaman itong mga certified true copies na ito sa mga certified true copies na binanggit ninyo kanina?

**[01:27:43.430] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po mga certified copies po, ito yung mga generate po na results ng aming verification based dun po sa single match entry na nirequest po ng committee po.

**[01:27:56.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, for the record, the witnesses identified prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-G-1-OVP to P-I-24-G-137-OVP. and P-I-24-G-1-DE, P-I-24-G-61-DE.

**[01:28:23.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted.

**[01:28:25.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Again, Ms. Grande, I am inviting your attention to the screen. Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Adonis Mascarinas. Ano po ba ang kinalaman or nakaugnayan nitong pangalang Adonis Mascarinas? Doon sa mga pangalang ni-re-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 2026 request.

**[01:28:51.190] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Adonis Mascarinas ay isa po sa listahan na may single match entry under the OBP list po at meron po kaming in-issue na marriage certificate po.

**[01:29:06.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang sunod ay pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Anselmo Sta. Cruz. Ano rin po bang? Ikaugnayan ng pangalang ito dun sa mga nire-verify ninyo in relation to the June 25, 2026 request.

**[01:29:28.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po si Anselmo Sta. Cruz sa may available na marriage certificate na in-issue po ng PSA under the OVP list na listahan po.

**[01:29:41.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sunod, pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Joel Mataflorida. Ano rin po ba ang kaugnayan nitong pangalang ito sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 25, 2026 request?

**[01:29:56.220] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama po si Joel Mataflorida doon po sa listahan ng DepEd na meron pong kopya din ng marriage certificate.

**[01:30:06.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sunod, pinapakita ko rin sa inyo ang pangalang Paulo Fernan. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman ng pangalang ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo?

**[01:30:16.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa listahan ng DepEd list na may kopya na na-generate sa CRS database na marriage certificate po.

**[01:30:25.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At panghuli? Pinapakita ko sa inyo ang pangalang Ramil Dabon. Ano po bang kinalaman itong pangalang ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo in relation to the June 25, 2026 request?

**[01:30:39.700] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Ramil Dabon po ay kasama din po sa listahan ng DepEd at meron po siyang kopya ng marriage certificate na in-issue ng PSA.

**[01:30:49.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Your Honor, for the record, the witness just identified prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-G-2-OVP P-I-24-G-13-OVP P-I-24-G-24-DE P-I-24-G-45-DE P-I-24-G-47-DE

**[01:31:24.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Bukod po sa mga nabanggit na ninyong request, ano pa po bang ibang request ang natanggap ng PSA mula sa House of Representatives?

**[01:31:32.800] Marizza B. Grande**  
Meron din pong letter addressed to our Undersecretary Mapa dated June 15, 2026, again from the House Committee on Justice through its lead prosecutor, Public Prosecutor, Honorable Gerville Luistro po.

**[01:31:49.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Tungkol saan naman po ang request na ito?

**[01:31:52.300] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung letter po na ito ay nagre-request para i-verify ng PSA yung mga single match, actually re-verify din po, re-verify the single match entries na may mga kopya ng birth, marriage, and or death certificate po.

**[01:32:09.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At paano din po ulit kayo naging pamilyar dito sa letter na ito?

**[01:32:14.100] Marizza B. Grande**  
Again po as ANS po, Assistant National Statistician, dumaan po yun sa akin for review yung mga requests including yung mga official reply and certifications as part of my duties po.

**[01:32:28.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, Ms. Grande, pinapakita po namin ulit sa inyo ang isang letter dated June 15, 2026.

**[01:32:40.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano po bang kinalaman ng letter na ito dun sa letter request na nabanggit ninyo?

**[01:32:45.810] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung letter na sinabi ko nga.

**[01:32:50.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, the witness, Ms. Grande, just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-F-1. Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ano naman pong naging tugon ng PSA dito sa letter request na ito?

**[01:33:05.130] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kami po ay nag-re-verify sa database based po dun sa mga binigay na single match na listahan at Ang aming Undersecretary Mapa ay nagpadala ng reply, sulat, dated June 19 kasama po yung listahan ng mga results ng aming verification and certified copies po ng mga documents.

**[01:33:31.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po ang naging resulta ng inyong re-verification?

**[01:33:36.180] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dito sa re-verification namin ng single match entry, nakita po namin na Doon sa mga pangalan under the OVP ay meron pong mga talaan kung saan may records na po ng mga kamatayan or death certificates po. At 32 po ay nakita namin na mga official death certificates sa mga pangalan po na yun.

**[01:34:04.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Ano pa po ba ang naging ibang resulta kung mayroon man? Nabanggit ninyo ang resulta relative to the OVP list.

**[01:34:13.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung isang listahan po na pertaining po doon sa DepEd list naman, meron pong lima na official na death certificate na nakita po namin sa CRS database.

**[01:34:26.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Miss

**[01:34:27.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Grande, nabanggit ninyo na based on your re-verification, 32 sa mga pangalan sa OVP list of recipients at 5 naman sa mga pangalan. DepEd list of recipients ay may kaukulang certificate of death. Ano po ibig sabihin ito?

**[01:34:44.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ibig pong sabihin ito ma'am, doon sa mga may single match entry na binerify po namin, 37 po ang nasa talaan na may official na pong record ng kamatayan or death certificate sa PSA database.

**[01:34:59.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At nabanggit niyo rin kanina na bilang tugon dun sa request, letter request, nagpadala kayo ng letter Sa House of Representatives na may kasamang table of verification results pati ng certified true copies.

**[01:35:15.650] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama po ma'am. So ang Undersecretary Mapa po nag-issue ng letter dated June 19, 2026 kasama po yung mga table of verification list na listahan at yung mga certified copies ng mga civil registry documents.

**[01:35:33.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta muna po tayo sa letter. May pinapakita po kami. Letter sa inyo na may petsang June 19, 2026. Ano po ba ang kinalaman ng letter na ito dun sa letter na binanggit ninyo naging tugon ng PSA sa request ng House of Representatives?

**[01:35:51.460] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung letter na binabanggit ko po, ma'am.

**[01:35:53.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You

**[01:35:54.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
honor the witness, Ms. Grande, just identified, Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-24-F.

**[01:36:03.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May na-mention din po kayo na table of verification results. Pinapakita ko po sa inyo ang

**[01:36:13.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
isang table of verification results. Ano po bang kinalaman nito dun sa table of verification results na sinabi ninyo kalakip ng letter na pinadala ninyo sa House of Representatives.

**[01:36:26.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung results po ng aming verification na may single match entries both dun po sa OVP list at saka yung sa DepEd na payees po.

**[01:36:38.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At may pinapakita din po kaming certified true copies ng mga documents. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman o kaugnayan ng mga certified true copies na ito dun sa certified true copies na nabanggit ninyo kanina?

**[01:36:51.890] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito po yung mga certified copies in security paper na in-issue po ng PSA based po sa results ng verification namin ng mga single match entry na ni-request po ng committee po.

**[01:37:07.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, Ms. Grande, paano po ba na-generate itong certified true copies na ito?

**[01:37:12.860] Marizza B. Grande**  
Dine-generate po ito based dun sa official records na naka-store po sa aming PSA database po.

**[01:37:20.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ano naman pong kaugnayan nitong certified true copies na ito at nung table of verification results na in-identify ninyo kanina?

**[01:37:28.780] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ito pong mga certified copies ng civil registry documents ay nagsusupport po doon sa result verification list na nasa table po.

**[01:37:38.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Your Honor, for the record, for the Certified true copies that the witness just identified. These are prosecutions exhibits P-I-24-F-1-OVP to P-I-24-F-63-OVP and P-I-24-F-1-DE to P-I-24-F-14-DE.

**[01:38:08.310] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, with the indulgence of the counsel for Prosecution.

**[01:38:13.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Justin,

**[01:38:14.220] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
may we just be able to request for copies of these documents, Your Honor? The defense do not have copies of these documents.

**[01:38:22.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly furnish after this afternoon's trial, kindly furnish the defense with a copy. If you have similarly marked documents, kindly furnish the prosecution as well.

**[01:38:37.860] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, if I may be clarified, these are not The common exhibits, Your Honor.

**[01:38:42.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
These are not common exhibits.

**[01:38:43.620] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And further, Your Honor, may we request copies of these documents and the letters, Your Honor, those identified since, of course, we will need to inspect these for cross-examination, Your Honor.

**[01:38:54.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Of course. Counsel, kindly furnish them with a copy if you haven't yet.

**[01:38:59.780] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you so much, Your Honor.

**[01:39:00.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
These are the letters written by PSA, right?

**[01:39:03.840] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:39:04.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ms. Grande?

**[01:39:05.700] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[01:39:06.500] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, to be specific, Your Honor. We're just referring to those issued by the lead prosecutor in 2026, Your Honor.

**[01:39:17.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The letter requests?

**[01:39:18.740] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. And the corresponding reply of the PSA, Your Honor. We already have copies of those in relation to 2024, Your Honor.

**[01:39:25.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Kindly do so, Attorney Mae.

**[01:39:27.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:39:29.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly proceed, Attorney Mae.

**[01:39:30.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Again, Ms. Grande, may I invite your attention to the screen?

**[01:39:36.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May papakita po muli. Ako sa inyo, mga pangalan. Simulan po natin sa pangalang Fortunato Salig.

**[01:39:49.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano po ba ang kinalaman nitong Fortunato Salig na ito doon sa mga nire-verify ng PSA?

**[01:39:57.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Fortunato Salig po ay isa sa na-verify namin na may single match entry at nakita namin sa talaan sa civil registry na siya po ay may death certificate at patay na.

**[01:40:14.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pinapakita ko rin sa inyo ang certificate of death pertaining to one Fortunato Salig.

**[01:40:24.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman pong impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng pagkamatay ni Fortunato Salig ang lumalabas sa certificate na iyan?

**[01:40:34.290] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa death certificate ni Fortunato Salig, siya ay namatay noong June 29, 2011 po.

**[01:40:42.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At base rin po sa death certificate, Ano po ba ang cause ng pagkamatay ni Fortunato Salig?

**[01:40:49.210] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ayon po sa kanyang death certificate, ang cause of death ay uncal herniation, antecedent cause, cerebrovascular disease, probably hemorrhagic.

**[01:41:02.320] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang other causes po dito ay community acquired pneumonia.

**[01:41:06.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Emilio Sagan.

**[01:41:16.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman pong naging resulta or ano pong kinalaman itong pangalan na ito sa mga pangalang ni-reverify ng PSA?

**[01:41:22.160] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Emilio Sagan ay isa rin po dun sa nakita namin na single match entry at based po sa CRS database, siya po ay patay na sa pamamagitan po ng death certificate po na ito.

**[01:41:36.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, pinapakita rin po namin sa inyo ang certificate of death ng isang Emilio Sagan. Dito po sa death certificate na ito, Ano po bang impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng pagkamatay ng Emilio Sagan na yan ang lumalabas sa Certificate of Death?

**[01:41:53.640] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa kanyang death certificate, si Emilio Sagan ay namatay po noong July 28, 2015.

**[01:42:00.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ano naman ang naging sanhi ng kanyang pagkamatay?

**[01:42:04.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sa medical certificate po niya, ang kamatayan ay dahil sa cardiopulmonary arrest, secondary to aspiration,

**[01:42:14.460] Marizza B. Grande**  
secondary to massive hemoptysis, secondary to pneumonia po.

**[01:42:19.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Rodolfo P. Traya.

**[01:42:28.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman o kaugnayan nitong Rodolfo P. Traya na ito sa mga pangalang nire-verify ng PSA?

**[01:42:37.370] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa binerify namin na may kopya ng death certificate.

**[01:42:43.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pinapakita rin po namin sa inyo ang certificate of death ng isang Rodolfo Traya. Ano pong impormasyon hinggil sa araw ng kanyang pagkamatay ang makikita o lumalabas sa death certificate?

**[01:42:55.550] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa death certificate, si Rodolfo Traya ay namatay po noong May 4, 2021.

**[01:43:02.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, for the record, the death certificates identified by the witness are Prosecutions Exhibits P-I-24-F-26-OVP. P-I-24-F-20-OVP and P-I-24-F-58-OVP respectively.

**[01:43:24.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted. With the indulgence of counsel, Ms. Grande, sabi mo si Rodolfo Traya ay namatay?

**[01:43:35.000] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes.

**[01:43:35.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Tama ba?

**[01:43:36.680] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor. Based dito sa death certificate.

**[01:43:40.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi ba dapat ang sinasabi mo, mayroong Rodolfo Traya na namatay?

**[01:43:44.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. Sorry po.

**[01:43:46.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Dahil hindi mo naman alam kung siya talaga yun eh. Pero base sa talaan niyo, may ganung pangalan na namatay, pinanganak, o kinasal, pero hindi niyo alam kung siya din yun o hindi na nakalagay dun sa acknowledgement receipt o dun sa pinagbasihan ng pangalan.

**[01:44:05.560] Marizza B. Grande**  
Your Honor, based po dun sa death certificate, may Rodolfo Traya na namatay.

**[01:44:10.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Merong Rodolfo Traya, pero hindi si Rodolfo Traya. Thank you. Counsel, you may proceed.

**[01:44:17.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina, just a clarification, Ms. Grande. Kanina, sinabi ninyo na yung verification ay maaaring mag-resulta into either a single matched entry, multiple matched entry, and no record entry. Dito po sa kay...

**[01:44:38.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Rodolfo Traya. Ano po yung naging resulta ng verification ninyo dun sa tatlo?

**[01:44:43.900] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Rodolfo Traya ay may single match na document po ng death certificate.

**[01:44:52.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Base rin po dun sa mga certificates of death or sa certificate of death ni Emilio Sagan na inyong in-identify kanina. Ilang taong patay na po ba si Emilio Sagan noong taong 2022?

**[01:45:08.600] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa death certificate po siya, nung 2022 siya ay 7 years old.

**[01:45:16.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ilang

**[01:45:16.750] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
taon po

**[01:45:17.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
na po siyang patay?

**[01:45:18.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
7 years.

**[01:45:22.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman po tayo.

**[01:45:23.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ms. Grande, 7 years old siya nung namatay o 7 taon nang patay?

**[01:45:26.680] Marizza B. Grande**  
7 years nang namatay noong 2022.

**[01:45:31.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney Mae.

**[01:45:36.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Anong edad ni...

**[01:45:40.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Emilio Sagan nung namatay siya ng 2022.

**[01:45:42.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
Siya po ay 49 years old po.

**[01:45:44.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
49 years.

**[01:45:47.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman tayo sa Certificate of Death ni Fortunato Salig. Batay po dyan sa Certificate of Death na yan. Ilang taon ang patay si Fortunato Salig noong 2022?

**[01:45:58.800] Marizza B. Grande**  
11 years po noong 2022.

**[01:46:05.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Miss Grande, maliban sa mga binanggit nating pangalan, Ilan pa basis sa certification or sa verification niyo ang nahanap na single matched entry na may death certificate?

**[01:46:17.890] Marizza B. Grande**  
Meron pa po balit 34 na may death certificate po.

**[01:46:24.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, sinabi mo na nag-request ng re-verification ng mga single matched entries ang House of Representatives noong June 25, 2026. Matapos makumpleto ang re-verification na ito, Ano pa ang naging mga resulta kung mayroon man?

**[01:46:42.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa June 26 na verification po namin nakita rin namin that as per record meron pong 20 na menor de edad doon po sa OVP list at doon naman po sa DepEd list based on record po meron pong 5 na menor de edad based sa kanilang mga birth certificates po.

**[01:47:09.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman pong ginawa ng PSA matapos itong re-verification na ito?

**[01:47:14.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
Following po yung standard protocol po, kami ay nagpadala ng sulat at ng official ng mga certifications at certified copies ng mga documents sa Committee on Justice through the Public Prosecutor Team po.

**[01:47:30.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
By the way, Ms. Grande, let's just backtrack a bit. Medyo...

**[01:47:36.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Naka-ago pansin lang sa akin yung mga sinabi mo, mga taong namatay na. Sa pagkakawari mo, Ms. Grande, ano po kayo mga informasyon ang maibigay nitong mga patay ng tao na ito noong 2022?

**[01:47:49.460] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Objection, Your Honor. Speculative, Your Honor.

**[01:47:52.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sustained. Move on, counsel.

**[01:47:56.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Balik po ulit tayo dun sa request ng inyong verification.

**[01:48:10.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano po ang ginawa nitong PSA? Matapos i-conduct yung re-verification na nagresulta sa pagkakahanap ninyo ng mga minors base sa talaan na ibinigay ng House of Representatives.

**[01:48:26.090] Marizza B. Grande**  
So kagaya po nung binanggit ko following yung standard verification, nag-issue po kami ng letter and yung listahan ng mga verified results ng aming verification at gayon din po yung mga certified copies ng mga civil registry documents based po doon sa resulta ng aming verification.

**[01:48:46.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, just for the record, this letter list of Names and certified copies of civil registry documents were already identified by the witness earlier. These are prosecution's exhibits P-I-24-G, P-I-24-G-1, P-I-24-G-3, P-I-24-G-2, P-I-24-G-4, T-I-24-G-1-OVP to P-I-24-G-65-OVP and P-I-24-G-1-DE to P-I-24-G-61-GE. Ngayon, Ms. Grande,

**[01:49:42.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted, Ms. Mae.

**[01:49:44.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you your honor. May I again invite your attention

**[01:49:47.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
To the screen. May pinapakita po ulit ako sa inyo mga pangalan. Magsimula po tayo sa pangalang Miko Alquizar. Ano po bang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo pursuant to the June 25, 2026 letter request na nagmula sa House of Representatives.

**[01:50:11.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po siya sa binerify po namin ng single match entry po. Si Miko Alquizar at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate.

**[01:50:22.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At base po sa birth certificate nitong Miko Alquizar, ano po ang kanyang kalagayan nung ginawa ninyo ang verification?

**[01:50:44.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Or let me rephrase the question, Your Honor. Base sa certificate or sa death certificate nitong si Miko Alquizar, sorry, birth certificate ni Miko Alquizar, Ilang taon na siya?

**[01:51:03.610] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Miko

**[01:51:04.710] Marizza B. Grande**  
Alquizar po

**[01:51:05.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
ay pinanganak noong June 11, 2022.

**[01:51:13.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So ilang taon na po siya noong 2022?

**[01:51:16.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
Isang taon po.

**[01:51:19.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Beatrice Cuenca. Ano rin po ba ang kinalaman nitong pangalan na ito dun sa mga pangalang nire-verify ninyo? in relation to the June 25, 2026 request.

**[01:51:45.360] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama rin po siya sa listahan na binerify namin under the OVP list at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate.

**[01:51:54.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Base po sa kanyang birth certificate, ano ang kanyang araw ng kapanganakan?

**[01:52:02.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si

**[01:52:03.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
Beatrice Cuenca po ay pinanganak noong January 7, 2022.

**[01:52:08.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
January 7, 2022. Kung gayon, Ms. Grande, ilang taon na itong Beatrice Cuenca noong 2023?

**[01:52:21.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
Mga one-year-old pa siguro siya.

**[01:52:22.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
One-year-old? Sa pagkawari mo, Ms. Grande, ano kayang impormasyon ang maibibigay nitong one-year-old na si Beatrice Cuenca sa OVP or sa DepEd?

**[01:52:39.280] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, speculative.

**[01:52:41.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If she knows, counsel, and the Chair will follow up with the question in a bit.

**[01:52:48.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[01:52:48.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Miss Grande, would you know?

**[01:52:52.610] Marizza B. Grande**  
Well, one year old po, Your Honor, so...

**[01:52:57.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Then, I have to ask then, you're basing your testimony, Miss Grande, on your records, yung certificate of live birth, not on the acknowledgement receipt.

**[01:53:11.210] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:53:12.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, you're testifying na merong pangalan na... Sorry, Miss May, Attorney

**[01:53:18.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May, what's your first name?

**[01:53:20.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Beatrice Cuenca.

**[01:53:22.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, tumetestigo po kayo na base sa talaan ninyo, sa CRS ninyo, meron pong Beatrice Cuenca na pinanganak ng 2022 na one-year-old.

**[01:53:36.240] Marizza B. Grande**  
Your Honor, yes po. Base lang po ako sa record, Your Honor, so I cannot speculate.

**[01:53:43.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would you know if it's the same Beatrice Cuenca that signed that document? Would you be in a position to answer?

**[01:53:50.960] Marizza B. Grande**  
No, sir.

**[01:53:53.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, rightfully so, ma'am, because you're with the PSA. Please proceed, Attorney Mae.

**[01:53:57.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Again, just a clarification, Ms. Grande. Ano po ang naging resulta? Sinabi niyo kanina, yung verification may result into either single match entry, multiple match entry, and no record entry. Dito po kay Beatrice Cuenca, ano pong naging resulta ng inyong verification?

**[01:54:18.380] Marizza B. Grande**  
Beatrice Cuenca po ay single match entry at meron po siyang kopya ng birth certificate. May record po ang Beatrice Cuenca na siya po ay minor pa.

**[01:54:29.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Punta naman po tayo sa pangalang Mikay de los Reyes. Ano rin po bang kinalaman itong Mikay de los Reyes na ito doon sa mga pangalang ni-re-verify ninyo in relation to the June? 25-2026 request.

**[01:54:49.770] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kasama din po sa pangalan na Mikay de los Reyes. Na-verify namin under the OVP list na may kopya ng birth record as per the PSA po.

**[01:55:00.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At base rin po dyan sa kanyang certificate of death, ilang taon na po ba si Mikay de los Reyes? Or base sa kanyang birth certificate, ano po ba ang araw ng kapanganakan ni Mikay de los Reyes?

**[01:55:15.200] Marizza B. Grande**  
January 13, 2020.

**[01:55:17.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung gayon, dahil pinanganak siya ng January 13, 2020, ilang taon na po ba itong si Mikay de los Reyes noong 2023?

**[01:55:27.770] Marizza B. Grande**  
Three years old.

**[01:55:30.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po ang confidential information kaya na maibibigay ng isang three-year-old na si Mikay de los Reyes noong 2023?

**[01:55:37.310] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Same objection, Your Honor.

**[01:55:38.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I would have to sustain, counsel.

**[01:55:41.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the witness just identified Prosecutions Exhibit P. Exhibits P-I-24-G-66-OVP, P-I-24-G-67-OVP, P-I-24-G-22-OVP, respectively.

**[01:56:07.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms. Grande.

**[01:56:08.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted. You'll wind up before lunch, right?

**[01:56:11.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:56:12.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Because you're about to finish, I presume, Attorney Mae.

**[01:56:14.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:56:17.650] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ms.

**[01:56:18.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Grande, base po. Doon sa inyong verification ng mga minor de edad, sino po ang pinakabata noong 2023?

**[01:56:28.390] Marizza B. Grande**  
Doon po sa records na binerify namin, ang pinakabata ay si Marlin Sunga.

**[01:56:35.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At base po doon sa inyong verification, ilang taon po itong si Marlin Sunga in 2023?

**[01:56:47.150] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po kasi sa death certificate po niya, two months pa lang ay namatay na po siya.

**[01:56:53.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Two months? Ano naman po kayang confidential information na mabibigay nitong Marlin Sunga?

**[01:56:58.250] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Objection, Your Honor. The same ground, Your Honor.

**[01:57:00.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You know it, Counsel.

**[01:57:02.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. Just trying, Your Honor.

**[01:57:08.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[01:57:13.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
itong si Marlin Sunga, Ms. Grande, anong status niya ngayon?

**[01:57:18.810] Marizza B. Grande**  
As per the record po, ay merong kopya ng death certificate po. na nakatala sa CRS database po.

**[01:57:29.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
We are showing you, we will be showing you the death certificate of Miss, of a certain Marlin Sunga.

**[01:57:52.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Base po sa kanyang death certificate, kailan po namatay itong si Marlin Sunga?

**[01:57:58.300] Marizza B. Grande**  
Si Marlin Sunga ay namatay November 2, 1965.

**[01:58:04.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
November 2, 1965.

**[01:58:08.650] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So kung gayon, Miss Grande,

**[01:58:11.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Gaano o ilang taon nang patay itong si Marlin Sunga noong 2023?

**[01:58:16.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
About 57 years.

**[01:58:20.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So in short, Miss Grande.

**[01:58:22.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mamali yung math niyo.

**[01:58:24.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
69

**[01:58:25.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ako pinanganak, 57 ako ngayon taon na to eh. Kung 65 yan, mas matagal pa.

**[01:58:33.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Dagdagan mo ma'am ng 4 years.

**[01:58:38.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
61.

**[01:58:40.480] Marizza B. Grande**  
61.

**[01:58:41.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So kung gayon, Ms. Grande, itong si Marlin Sunga, noong 2023, ang taon ang diumanoy nagkabayaran ng confidential funds, hindi lamang siya 61 years ng patay, siya rin ay 2 months old lamang. Tama ba?

**[01:58:55.340] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Objection, Your Honor. Calls for an opinion.

**[01:58:58.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Move on, counsel.

**[01:59:00.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Last. Your Honor, the witness just identified prosecution's exhibit P-I-24-F-41.

**[01:59:10.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Finally, Ms. Grande, pakitingnan lang po yung screen.

**[01:59:19.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Inapakita ko po sa inyo ang isang summary ng mga resulta ng isinagawang verification ng PSA. Gaano po katumpak o ka-accurate ang buod or summary na ito kumpara sa mga resultang nakasaad sa certification na inyo nang kinilala.

**[01:59:37.440] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa mga pangalan na ibinigay sa PSA na aming po binerify at sa aming po verification at sa summary tabulation po kanina, ang mga information po na ito ay 100% accurate. Tumpak po.

**[01:59:52.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
That would be all for your direct examination, Your Honor.

**[01:59:55.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You want to cross now, Attorney Justin, or after lunch?

**[01:59:58.190] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
After lunch, Your Honor. We also reiterate our request for the documents.

**[02:00:02.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, over lunch, Attorney Mae, can you give them a copy of the documents you requested?

**[02:00:06.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:00:06.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We still have a couple of minutes. Would any senator-judge wish to make an intervention to make the most use of our time? Senator-Judge Raffy may avail of his time to interject.

**[02:00:24.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[02:00:27.900] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Actually, Mr. Presiding Officer, more on the manifestation nito sa akin.

**[02:00:32.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, what would it be, Senator-Judge?

**[02:00:35.800] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Sa akin, in my humble opinion, aliases lang itong mga ginamit nila at yung mga nagkakatugma-tugma sa mga birth certificate, yun ay tsamba lamang.

**[02:00:48.000] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Ang sa akin lamang, kasi napapansin ko, yung mga signatures doon sa mga Pagung, Pusa, kung sino-sino pa. Magkakapare-pareho. So ibig sabihin isang tao lang po ipirma. At saka isang handwriting lang doon sa mga pangalan. So for me, it's really important na mapatawag dito yung Lachica at saka yung counterpart ng Lachica sa DepEd para sila talaga yung may kinalaman doon sa pagbibigay ng mga pangalan na yan. And I'm very sure, Mr. Presiding Officer, habang [unclear]. Ginagawa tayong mga kenkoy, yung tao dyan sa [unclear] OVP. Ang tanong ko lang, last, sa prosecution. Okay, granting, sabi nga nung sa PSA, may mga pangalan doon nagmamatch, special mga newborn. Okay, hindi nyo ba pinaluap, pinuntahan yung mga magulang noon? Baka maaari yung mga magulang nun ang pumirma doon. Lalo yung mga 2 years old, diba may 1 year old, 2 years old. So did you not guys, did they follow up and trace or track down the parents or guardians of these 1 or 2 years old na mga bata para to confirm kung baka sila nga talaga involved sa DepEd, baka mga empleyado to ng DepEd or ng OVP?

**[02:02:21.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
To be candid, Your Honor, we did not, Your Honor, because we do not know the whereabouts of these people, Your Honor. And given the limited time, Your Honor, we could not track their...

**[02:02:31.900] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Walang address sa LTO or sa PhilHealth, sa GSIS or any government agencies for that matter na they might have a record on that. Maybe these persons, okay. Maybe yung mga tao po, Mr. Presiding Officer, na kung saan yung mga bata. May mga nakalist ng mga bata. Maybe yung mga magulang noon ay empleyado ng DepEd or OVP.

**[02:02:57.900] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
It's possible na ginamit nilang pangalan ng kanilang mga anak. But take note ano, even the military, even the NBI, even the PNP, gumagamit siguro sila ng aliases para sa kanilang mga informants. So I don't see anything different. para dito sa DepEd at ka-OVP. Kaya lang, [unclear] ginagamit ng mga alias, Pusa, Daga, [unclear] Pusa, Pagong, etc.

**[02:03:24.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, if I may just quickly respond. Kung yan po, if such was the fact, Your Honor, then the defense should have at the earliest opportunity already indicated that in their answer. But they never did, Your Honor. So we worked on the theory that these are the real names of the supposed payees. That's why, Your Honor, we went through this whole exercise of verifying with the PSA. Because they never claimed that, Your Honor, they were again given the opportunity to raise that defense in their pre-trial order. But again, Your Honor, they never did.

**[02:03:59.420] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, if the defense may be able to briefly respond.

**[02:04:03.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the permission of Senator-Judge Tulfo, I am obligated to allow Attorney Justin to respond. Please, your comment, Attorney Justin.

**[02:04:12.080] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
It has to be remembered, Your Honor, that in relation to Article 1, the basis of the prosecution is based on the findings of the Commission on Audit, Your Honor. And given that the findings of the Commission on Audit never pointed any problems in relation to the names in the acknowledgement receipts, much less the use of aliases, Your Honor, there was nothing to respond to with all due respect.

**[02:04:35.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
With all due respect, Your Honor, if I can again just quickly respond to that, Your Honor. Quite the contrary, Your Honor.

**[02:04:40.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Mae.

**[02:04:40.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
We explicitly stated in the Articles of Incorporation

**[02:04:44.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Impeachment.

**[02:04:45.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm sorry. Articles of Incorporation. Force of habit, Your Honor. In the Articles of Impeachment, Your Honor, particularly,

**[02:04:58.040] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
particularly,

**[02:05:09.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, in page 5 of the Articles of Impeachment, paragraph D, and I quote, The Philippine Statistics Authority certified that a significant number of individuals listed in acknowledgement receipts do not exist in official civil registry records. Of 677 names in DepEd receipts, at least 398 had no corresponding birth, death, or marriage records. Of 1,992 names in OVP receipts, At least 1,287 individuals could not be verified. Notably, names such as Mary Grace Piattos, Milky Secuya, and Kokoy Villamin have no records. They could

**[02:05:55.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
have

**[02:05:55.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
already addressed this in their answer, but they never raised that these are aliases. Now, assuming, Your Honor, that these are aliases, we respectfully submit that the use of the aliases if we consider the requirements under The anti-alias law, Your Honor, it's improper.

**[02:06:18.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You can end there, Attorney Mae. Final rejoinder, Attorney Justin.

**[02:06:22.090] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, the fact remains at this point of the proceedings, and even at the time the articles of impeachment was filed, is that the prosecution had the burden of proof to explain and prove every allegation. If they are now claiming that these are aliases, the burden is with them, not with the defense.

**[02:06:43.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's 12 o'clock, Atty.

**[02:06:45.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May. Besides, they made the denial with respect to the allegations of the impeachment complaint. So, I guess it is deemed

**[02:06:51.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
denied.

**[02:06:52.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
If I may just quickly reply, Your Honor, please.

**[02:06:56.120] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Then Your Honor, we will not stop. We will continue responding, Your Honor.

**[02:06:59.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
This will never end, Atty. Mae.

**[02:07:01.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just a final point, Your Honor, please.

**[02:07:03.560] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Last point na lang.

**[02:07:04.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I will recognize Senator Judge Tulfo, with your permission Attorney Mae.

**[02:07:07.140] Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo**  
Okay. Granting each of those informants, they used different alias or aliases. Sabihin na natin na [unclear] silang mga alias tulad ng ginagawa sa PNP, sa NBI. Isa-isa sila pumunta doon sa kay Colonel Lachica, kung kanina man yung counterpart niya si DepEd, pumipirma. Ang hindi ko lang nagustuhan doon ay yung pare-pareho ang pirma. Pare-pareho yung handwriting sa different names. So doon may [unclear] makakalusot pa sa akin yung bang gagamit ng alias. Kasi nga naman siyempre as an informant, especially giving intelligence information or confidential information, siguro allowed sila na gumamit ng alias to protect their identity para hindi sila masunog, ika nga. Pero yung bang pirma ng bawat ng ilang mga informants po doon, Mr. Presiding Officer, pare-pareho. Tapos yung handwriting, yung [unclear] ng mga pangalan doon, pare-pareho. Ibig sabihin, isang tao lang ang [unclear] noon. So, yun ay very questionable for me. Maraming salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[02:08:21.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator-Judge Tulfo.

**[02:08:28.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, with the indulgence of counsels and senator-judges, we pause for lunch. We shall resume at 12.45.

**[02:08:35.890] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
We

**[02:08:36.270] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
submit your

**[02:08:36.750] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
honor.

**[02:08:37.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Trial is in recess.

**[02:56:39.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The

**[02:56:39.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clerk of court is directed to once again bring the witness, Ms. Grande, to the witness stand.

**[02:57:07.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ma'am Marizza, bago po tayo magpatuloy, naunawaan niyo [unclear] patuloy na magbibigay [unclear] inyong testimonya [unclear] niyo pong panunumpa na magsasabi ng katotohanan at pawang katotohanan lamang. Naunawaan niyo po yan?

**[02:57:18.740] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[02:57:20.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Salamat po. Attorney Justin, your witness for your cross.

**[02:57:25.940] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Turning to my cross, Your Honor. Magandang hapon po, Ms. Grande.

**[02:57:31.560] Marizza B. Grande**  
Good afternoon, sir.

**[02:57:32.880] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Ms. Grande, during your direct examination, you stated that you are the assistant national statistician of the Civil Registration Service of the PSA, correct?

**[02:57:44.140] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:57:45.040] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And in that position, Ms. Grande, this is not the first time that you testified under oath in relation to the impeachment of the Vice President, correct?

**[02:57:54.870] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:57:55.870] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You recall that you testified before the Committee of Justice of the House of Representatives back on April 14, 2026.

**[02:58:05.570] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:58:06.410] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay. And in that hearing, Ms. Grande, before the Committee on Justice, you confirmed, as you testified, that you are in charge of the verification, processing, and archiving of civil registry documents in the Philippine Statistics Authority or the PSA.

**[02:58:23.250] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:58:24.480] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And you are also in charge in the generation of vital statistics. Tama po ba?

**[02:58:29.380] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:58:30.040] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
At ilang taon na po kayo sa PSA?

**[02:58:32.760] Marizza B. Grande**  
More than 25 years, sir.

**[02:58:34.920] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay. Nung direct examination niyo po kay Atty. Mae, nag-identify po kayo ng ilan na mga PSA certifications. Yung tanong ko po, ito po yung mga resulta ng verification process na sinagawa ng PSA. Tama po ba?

**[02:58:48.620] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama, sir.

**[02:58:49.440] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And this verification process that the PSA conducted used the Civil Registry System database of the PSA itself, correct?

**[02:58:58.920] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:58:59.740] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And the civil registry system database is considered as the centralized or national repository of all our civil registry documents in the Philippines. Tama po ba?

**[02:59:13.180] Marizza B. Grande**  
Correct sir.

**[02:59:14.200] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
At ang laman po nito ay ang mga sinusumite ng ating mga local civil registry offices. Tama?

**[02:59:22.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:59:23.360] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Kasama na po yung mga syariah courts natin. Tama?

**[02:59:26.300] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po.

**[02:59:27.180] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Kasama na rin po yung mga Philippine Foreign Service Posts natin. Tama?

**[02:59:31.500] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[02:59:32.480] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So, is it therefore correct to say, Ms. Grande, that the CRS database of our PSA relies on the submissions of these offices?

**[02:59:42.970] Marizza B. Grande**  
That's correct, sir.

**[02:59:44.350] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
In other words, once these offices submit civil registry documents or information to the PSA, The PSA then enters the information and documents in the database, correct?

**[02:59:57.090] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[02:59:57.880] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And this CRS database is an electronic database, would that be correct?

**[03:00:02.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes sir.

**[03:00:03.640] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, the PSA does not conduct field investigations to verify whether all births in the country is registered. Tama po ba?

**[03:00:17.660] Marizza B. Grande**  
Partly yes sir for the CRS but there are other like for example in the census. where we gather information on birth registration.

**[03:00:27.300] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Allow me to repeat the question po, Ma'am Grande. Particularly for the CRS, does the PSA conduct field investigations to physically check whether rehestrado lahat ng mga births dito sa Pilipinas?

**[03:00:39.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Already asked and answered, Your Honor.

**[03:00:40.800] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, I'm just asking a clarification.

**[03:00:42.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness will answer. She did not answer clearly the first time.

**[03:00:46.790] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. We rely on the submission of the local civil registry offices on the registration including the post and the sharia. But as the PSA is also in charge in the censuses, we get information also on the birth registration.

**[03:01:08.930] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. And tama din po with respect to the CRS database. Hindi po nagko-conduct yung PSA natin ng field investigation to investigate whether all deaths, I'm referring to deaths, Atty. Mae, in the country is registered.

**[03:01:24.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. We do study as to the completeness based on the available censuses and the vital statistics.

**[03:01:33.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
So,

**[03:01:33.810] Marizza B. Grande**  
estimate kami, sir.

**[03:01:35.310] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Sorry, Ms. Grande, for interrupting you. But my next question is, and similarly, The PSA also does not conduct any field investigations in relation to the CRS database to physically check whether all marriages in the Philippines are recorded, correct?

**[03:01:50.500] Marizza B. Grande**  
For that, sir, yes.

**[03:01:52.240] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
But you do confirm, Ms. Grande, ma'am, na nagko-conduct po naman yung PSA ng mga registration programs?

**[03:01:59.860] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. We have the birth registration assistance project we launched in February 2022.

**[03:02:07.880] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. And the reason why we have these registration programs is because, admittedly, not all births are recorded in the Philippines. Tama po ba?

**[03:02:17.360] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sir, yes. Registration is not universal. That's why we have programs to register all para sa universal civil registration.

**[03:02:29.520] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Meron po ba tayong ginagawa na similar with respect to deaths? Nagre-registration program din po ba tayo?

**[03:02:36.610] Marizza B. Grande**  
Mga IECs lang po because there are areas lang that we identified based on the census and in some of the indirect estimates na may low registration rates.

**[03:02:50.370] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So you confirm based on the census available to the PSA that not all deaths in the country are also registered?

**[03:02:57.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sorry sir, for the deaths po, indirect estimates meaning hindi po siya sa census. Sa census kasi birth registration lang po.

**[03:03:03.990] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay, let me rephrase my question. Ma'am, so hindi po makukumperma ng PSA na recorded o rehistrado lahat ng pagkakamatay. Tama po ba?

**[03:03:13.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:03:14.470] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And in the same manner, the PSA hindi din kayang ikuperma kung lahat ng mga kasalan sa Pilipinas ay nakarehistrado sa sistema niyo. Tama po ba?

**[03:03:23.430] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes for now, sir.

**[03:03:25.030] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. Now, so you confirm that it is possible that a certain birth did in fact occur but it is not registered in the CRS database.

**[03:03:36.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based on the data po, there are births not registered.

**[03:03:41.990] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And you do confirm that it is also possible that a death had in fact occurred but it is not registered in your database.

**[03:03:50.770] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, there are deaths na unregistered but there are process also to reconstruct or to file the late registration.

**[03:04:01.150] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Maraming salamat, ma'am. I'll take that answer. And you also confirm na posible din po, ma'am, na may marriage that was celebrated pero hindi rehistarado sa CRS database natin?

**[03:04:13.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:04:15.020] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay. Now, you do confirm, Ms. Grande, na meron din tayong cases na tinatawag na late registration. Tama po ba?

**[03:04:21.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[03:04:22.220] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Meron tayong late registration sa mga births or sa mga pagpanganag.

**[03:04:26.390] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes.

**[03:04:27.150] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Meron din tayong mga late registration sa deaths or sa mga pagkamatay. Tama po ba?

**[03:04:31.710] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama po, Sir.

**[03:04:32.810] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Meron din po tayong mga late registration sa marriages at sa mga kasalan na nangyayari. Tama po ba?

**[03:04:39.330] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama po.

**[03:04:40.190] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And tama po ba na kapag hindi pa sila rehestrado kasi nga late, hindi din ito lalabas sa CRS database natin?

**[03:04:47.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
Agree, Sir.

**[03:04:48.530] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, next. You mentioned during your direct examination that in your verification process, You inputted the information provided by the House of Representatives. Tama po ba?

**[03:05:01.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:05:02.650] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. Now, my question now is in your verification process, tama po ba that clerical errors can also affect searches in your database?

**[03:05:12.090] Marizza B. Grande**  
Not exactly, sir, because our CRS is designed in such a way that when you verify a particular record, makukuha mo pa rin yung Even though clerical error yung name and also those with similar sounds sa name or sa last name. Kaya ang sagot ko sir, not exactly dahil maka-capture mo pa rin sa system namin.

**[03:05:40.120] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Pero it is possible, ma'am.

**[03:05:42.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Already asked and answered, Your Honor.

**[03:05:43.840] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
My question is different, Your Honor. I am confirming whether it is possible which is within the personal knowledge.

**[03:05:50.130] Marizza B. Grande**  
Our RSO verifiers po, are following query parameters. So may iba-iba pong level yan. That all, for example, when you input a name, kahit po wrong yung spelling niya, all of the entries which is almost similar to that name will be provided. At isa-isahin po yun ng aming RSO verifier. So kaya yung sagot ko po doon is not exactly because Our system is parang flexible siya to provide you all the names. For example, yung Piatos, sir. All the Piatos na last name plus the M, for example, na name.

**[03:06:37.710] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay, but in fact, Madam Witness, if you recall during the April 14, 2026 hearing before the Committee on Justice, do you recall having making this statement, and I quote, I cannot say na 100% accurate iyong negative results. Do you recall making that statement?

**[03:06:55.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, may the witness be confronted with a particular portion of the TSN, Your Honor, so that the context of that statement...

**[03:07:03.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Assisting counsel may approach.

**[03:07:05.500] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Much obliged, Your Honor. For the record, Your Honor, we are flashing on the screen, defense exhibit D-1-123, particularly page 177 of the transcript of the stenographic notes. And defense exhibit D-1-123, which is the same, but page 178, Your Honor. For the record, Your Honor, we are flashing sliced photos of that document since they belong to different pages, Your Honor, for the easy reference of our court.

**[03:07:32.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
[unclear] confirms, thank you for that copy, Counsel, because the copy I have, Natakpan ng certified true copy yung iyong negative results. I couldn't read it anymore. Yes, Ms. Grande. Do you confirm?

**[03:07:45.410] Marizza B. Grande**  
I recall, sir, that they are inquiring on whether na-exhaust yung verification. And I think I said that we have exhausted based on the information that is provided.

**[03:08:01.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Let me counsel. Ms. Grande, you did not answer the question. The question was, do you recall making that statement that you have read, na hindi 100% accurate yung negative results?

**[03:08:13.430] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

**[03:08:14.410] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Let's proceed po, Ms. Grande. Now, let's go back to the certifications. During the House of Representatives committee hearing on April 14, tama po ba that you attended that hearing as a representative of Dr. Claire Dennis Mapa?

**[03:08:30.960] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, po.

**[03:08:31.930] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And he is currently the National Statistician and our Civil Registrar General of the Philippines, correct?

**[03:08:39.110] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:08:39.970] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, in that HORCOJ hearing on April 14, 2026, you submitted two copies of PSA certifications. Do you recall that?

**[03:08:50.200] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:08:51.080] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Particularly, these are the PSA certifications that Atty. Mae made you identify. The December 8, 2024, correct?

**[03:08:58.780] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:08:59.400] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And the December 11, 2024, correct?

**[03:09:02.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:09:03.220] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, these certifications were issued by the PSA as you mentioned upon the request of the House of Representatives Committee of Good Government and Public Accountability, correct?

**[03:09:13.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:09:14.160] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And this request was made by the fine gentleman on your right, Representative Joel Chua, correct?

**[03:09:20.700] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:09:23.220] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, these certifications also had cover letters, tama po ba?

**[03:09:28.980] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama po, sir.

**[03:09:30.140] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Ito po yung mga cover letter na [unclear] at [unclear] ni Undersecretary [unclear] Mapa, correct?

**[03:09:38.080] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:09:39.200] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Puntahan po natin yung December 8, 2024 na cover letter to the certification dated December 8, 2024. You confirm that the same refers to, and I quote, Madam Grande, the request for verification of civil registry documents of 677 individuals.

**[03:10:05.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Zoom in to the relevant provisions.

**[03:10:07.130] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor. And for the easy reference

**[03:10:08.770] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
of the witness, Your Honor, for the record, we are also confronting the witness with Defense Exhibit D-1-97, Your Honor.

**[03:10:16.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. And can the tech please zoom in to the provision highlighted by Atty. Justin?

**[03:10:36.540] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. This is the official reply of the PSA.

**[03:10:40.360] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. For a while, Madam Grande. We're just asking the tech to zoom in.

**[03:10:52.200] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
May

**[03:10:52.560] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
I proceed, Your Honor?

**[03:10:53.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, you may proceed, Counsel.

**[03:10:54.640] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Turning back to my cross.

**[03:10:57.620] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Ms. Grande, can you please read the last paragraph of that cover letter dated December 8, 2024?

**[03:11:05.160] Marizza B. Grande**  
[unclear] omnibus certification with the results of verification on the documents of the listed individuals from the Philippine Statistics Authority Civil Registry System Database on the basis of the information provided for your reference.

**[03:11:20.080] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay. Now that letter... mentions the quote on the basis of the information provided, correct?

**[03:11:25.830] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:11:26.470] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now,

**[03:11:26.870] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
my question is, in relation to that certification dated December 8, 2024, who gave or who provided the PSA with that information?

**[03:11:36.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
The list was provided by the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

**[03:11:43.390] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Maraming salamat po, Ms. Grande. Puntahan na naman natin yung cover letter December 11, 2024. to the certification dated December 11, 2024.

**[03:11:59.500] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
May we request the tech booth to please zoom.

**[03:12:03.840] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Do you also have it with you, Madam Grande?

**[03:12:07.910] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:12:11.830] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now, it also contains the same last paragraph, correct?

**[03:12:16.100] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, po.

**[03:12:16.880] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. And again, the same question, who provided you with the information subject of that certification?

**[03:12:25.600] Marizza B. Grande**  
It's the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability.

**[03:12:29.160] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And you mentioned earlier when you answered me, nakabase po ito sa information, ito po yung listahan na binigay ng House of Representatives.

**[03:12:37.180] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:12:38.200] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So, am I correct that besides that list that was provided to you, the House of Representatives did not provide you with any other documents, correct?

**[03:12:47.810] Marizza B. Grande**  
It's just the list, sir, and the letter request.

**[03:12:50.410] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
It means that when the House of Representatives made this request to the Philippine Statistics Authority, it also did not furnish the PSA with the copies of the acknowledgement receipts, correct?

**[03:13:01.860] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:13:02.760] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So, apart from the list, and this is a different question, did the PSA use any other material in conducting its verification process using its CRS database?

**[03:13:13.080] Marizza B. Grande**  
No, sir. We just used the list for the verification.

**[03:13:16.600] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Maraming salamat po, Ms. Grande. Now, I went over those PSA certifications. And if you can look at the right portion thereof, may mga sinabing mga paragraphs na negative record. Tama po ba?

**[03:13:34.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:13:35.100] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Meron ding mga sinasabi na most likely match, correct?

**[03:13:39.360] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:13:40.380] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
At sinabi mo kanina kapag negative record, hindi nakita sa CRS database, correct?

**[03:13:46.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:13:47.180] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Kapag most likely match, pwedeng isa yung nag-match or single entry, correct?

**[03:13:52.950] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
At

**[03:13:53.550] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
marami yung nag-match multiple entry. Is that correct?

**[03:13:56.890] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes.

**[03:13:57.610] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
However, you confirm, if makikita niyo po sa dokumento na yan, please confirm that these certifications do not say that the listed persons do not exist. You confirm that? Walang sinasabi dyan?

**[03:14:10.860] Marizza B. Grande**  
Wala pong sinasabi sa certification namin about the existence, only the attestation as to the availability po ng records sa database.

**[03:14:19.680] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So, my question now is, These certifications only say that particular names are not found in the CSR database. Yan lang po yung ibig sabihin yan.

**[03:14:30.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel,

**[03:14:31.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
it's CRS.

**[03:14:31.940] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
CRS. Pardon. And thank you, Your Honor, for correcting me.

**[03:14:37.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir. It's only based sa verification namin in the CRS database.

**[03:14:42.550] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And

**[03:14:42.910] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
again, based on the information given by the House of Representatives, Committee of Good Government, and Public Accountability. Correct?

**[03:14:50.390] Marizza B. Grande**  
Correct sir.

**[03:14:51.070] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. So when the PSA certification state negative record ma'am, hindi na po siya nagsa-certify na walang tao na nag-exist na ganyan. Tama po ba?

**[03:15:01.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Again sir, I will repeat that we are testifying as to the availability po ng record and not as to the existence.

**[03:15:11.010] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So to clarify, it only certifies that a particular name is not found in the CRS database. Correct?

**[03:15:18.450] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And the

**[03:15:20.150] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
PSA certifications, again, state nothing as to either the existence or non-existence of those persons. Correct?

**[03:15:28.290] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now,

**[03:15:29.790] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
puntahan po natin

**[03:15:30.870] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
yung mga diniscuss

**[03:15:32.570] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
mo na negative certifications. You will agree that the PSA also issues negative certifications in relation to birth, correct?

**[03:15:42.250] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And

**[03:15:42.970] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
the validity of those negative certifications, particularly on birth have time limitations correct?

**[03:15:49.890] Marizza B. Grande**  
Just recently we issued the policy on that sir.

**[03:15:54.090] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes and the policy is negative birth certificate negative certifications with relation to birth only has a validity of six months correct?

**[03:16:05.150] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes sir for the purpose of the registration for the delayed registration.

**[03:16:09.770] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And you do confirm that there are birth certifications contained in the certification that you submitted?

**[03:16:17.200] Marizza B. Grande**  
It

**[03:16:17.880] Marizza B. Grande**  
included for the verification po sa House

**[03:16:21.040] Marizza B. Grande**  
of Representatives.

**[03:16:27.840] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based

**[03:16:28.650] Marizza B. Grande**  
po dun sa re-verification namin in the December and then also in June of 2026. Since we conducted the verification, they have the same results.

**[03:16:43.910] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
But my question is simple, Ms. Grande. Let's go to the 2026 certification. You will confirm that since that 2026 certification contains a birth certification of negative results, that is also still time-bound, correct?

**[03:17:00.660] Marizza B. Grande**  
If I recall, sir, on the policy that we issued for the expiration of the negative certification, it's particularly for the delayed registration purposes ng individual persons. And this one, itong re-verification that we conducted specifically for this legal purpose of the impeachment hearing po. So, yun po yung differences nung dalawang certifications that we issued. As I can recall, yung policy is for the individual. yung negative certification with a validity of six months for the purpose of delayed [unclear].

**[03:17:41.460] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Maraming salamat, Ms. Grande. I'll take that answer. Now, kanina, Ms. Grande, during your direct examination with Atty. Mae, pinakita po kayo ng mga pangalan. Mga pangalan na si [unclear], at iba pa. You recall that?

**[03:17:59.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:18:00.230] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
May pinakita na acknowledgement receipt sa isang banda, at sa isang banda naman po, Sa screen natin, may pinakita na record, civil registry document. Do you recall that?

**[03:18:10.790] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:18:11.630] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Ito po yung tanong ko. Nung binigay niyo po itong mga civil registry document ng mga taong nabanggit kanina, kinuha niyo po ba yung consent nila?

**[03:18:21.560] Marizza B. Grande**  
For this particular request from the House of Representatives,

**[03:18:28.300] Marizza B. Grande**  
We don't think na kailangan po ng consent ng individuals because the very purpose of this is the conduct already of an investigation.

**[03:18:38.280] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Ma'am, hindi po yan yung tanong ko and I hope I'll be allowed to ask this again. Did you get the consent of those individuals?

**[03:18:44.660] Marizza B. Grande**  
No, sir.

**[03:18:45.280] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And are you aware that any information in a civil registry document is sensitive personal information?

**[03:18:53.440] Marizza B. Grande**  
First, sir, there is already a procedures that we adopted in compliance to Data Privacy Act of 2020-2012.

**[03:19:01.060] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So you are aware that any disclosure of personal sensitive information is a violation of the [unclear]? I am

**[03:19:07.540] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
asking if the witness is aware, Your Honor.

**[03:19:09.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The statement is misleading, Your Honor, because according to counsel... Mere disclosure of sensitive personal information would already amount to a violation of the Data Privacy Act.

**[03:19:22.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But

**[03:19:22.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
it's clear, Your Honor, there are certain exceptions to the prohibition against processing of sensitive personal information. Particularly applicable to this case, Your Honor, is paragraph F of section 13 of the Data Privacy Act, Your Honor, which allows processing of personal data information.

**[03:19:44.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Allowing

**[03:19:44.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to finish,

**[03:19:45.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[03:19:45.870] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Relating to information that would help establish claims and defenses in legal proceedings, your honor.

**[03:19:54.850] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
If

**[03:19:55.150] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
I may be able to respond,

**[03:19:56.370] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
your honor.

**[03:19:56.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let me ask the witness, counsel. Sa palagay po niya, Ms. Grande, bakit hindi niyo nilabag yung paglalabas ng impormasyon na hiniling ng camera?

**[03:20:08.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Base sa Data Privacy Act o base sa charter po ninyo mismo na dapat confidential yan?

**[03:20:14.900] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po sa Data Privacy Act sir, the same as mentioned by attorney, Section 13F. So if there's a legitimate purpose and Pwede po namin i-release po ito sa nagre-request na agency or individual. But most of the time po sir, yung mga ganitong cases po ay chine-check namin what is the legitimate purpose and then yung mga information that we provide, we determine that is proportionate doon sa nirequest po ng House of Committee.

**[03:20:49.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In this instance ma'am, ano yung legitimate purpose? Can you state it for the record?

**[03:20:53.620] Marizza B. Grande**  
Doon po sa request po nila ay nakalagay po doon on the conduct of investigation po.

**[03:21:00.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Conduct of investigation.

**[03:21:02.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung first po na letter request, that's December 2024, specifically under the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability, the purpose indicated is the ongoing investigation.

**[03:21:16.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At sa

**[03:21:16.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
paniniwala nyo, exemption yan sa data privacy.

**[03:21:19.530] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir. There is a policy that we adopt in the PSA that for any government agency or legislative as long as the legitimate purpose is indicated po ay pwede naming i-release yung information.

**[03:21:34.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, your witness.

**[03:21:35.370] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes. Now

**[03:21:36.950] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
to clarify, in relation to the 2026 certifications, that was issued not via request from this impeachment court, correct?

**[03:21:48.460] Marizza B. Grande**  
It is through the request from the public prosecutor.

**[03:21:54.300] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And

**[03:21:54.840] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
there was no subpoena for that certification, correct?

**[03:21:57.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
There was no subpoena, but...

**[03:21:59.620] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
That is

**[03:21:59.880] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
all, Madam Witness. Let me proceed. Madam Witness, kanina din po, pinakita kayo ng mga ARs at ang mga civil registry documents. Naalala niyo po? Tinanong ko na ito kanina.

**[03:22:11.910] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:22:12.470] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Now,

**[03:22:13.670] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
an example is Rodolfo Traya. Tama po ba?

**[03:22:17.340] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:22:18.200] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Hindi mo kilala. You cannot say with certainty who that Rodolfo Traya is as appearing in the acknowledgement receipts, correct? You have no knowledge.

**[03:22:27.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
No, sir.

**[03:22:28.420] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You also have no knowledge with certainty who that Rodolfo Traya is as appearing in the civil registry documents, correct?

**[03:22:36.060] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You

**[03:22:36.580] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
do not personally know him.

**[03:22:39.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Agree, sir. The presentation po is...

**[03:22:42.960] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Apologies, your honor. I'll have to invoke the rule.

**[03:22:45.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness will answer. Kilala niyo po ba ng personal yung pangalang nakalagay sa talaan ninyo sa CRS?

**[03:22:51.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po, sir. Nag-base lang po kami doon sa verification po namin. [unclear]

**[03:22:58.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At yun naman talaga yung nilagay niyo sa certification ninyo. Your witness, counsel?

**[03:23:02.540] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you, your honor. And pardon if I interjected for a bit.

**[03:23:05.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's okay, counsel.

**[03:23:06.160] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you, your honor. Now, next. So you are not personally knowledgeable of who the person appearing in the AR is. You are also not personally knowledgeable on the person appearing in the civil registry documents. What you're only testifying now is that there are records existing with the PSA. Tama po ba?

**[03:23:26.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:23:27.550] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay, let's proceed. Ma'am Grande, the CRS database maintained by the PSA also has a repository of legal names, correct?

**[03:23:37.550] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:23:38.720] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And by legal names, tama po ba na ito po yung mga pangalan na recorded o nakarehistro sa mga Certificate of Live Birth natin?

**[03:23:47.170] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir. Kasama

**[03:23:48.630] Marizza B. Grande**  
yung

**[03:23:48.830] Marizza B. Grande**  
mga corrections that has undergone halimbawa po sa administrative or through court order.

**[03:23:57.970] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank

**[03:23:58.470] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
you for that. And Madam Witness, you however confirm that yung PSA natin wala namang pong repository ng mga aliases, correct?

**[03:24:07.840] Marizza B. Grande**  
I will disagree to that, sir. For aliases that has been judicially approved, na may authority na binigay po yung court, meron pong record ang civil registry. And in fact, we stored those that have been registered and annotated doon sa kanilang subject na birth certificate.

**[03:24:29.140] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Okay, let's make it clear, Ma'am Grande. Meron po kayong repository sa mga judicially approved na aliases, correct?

**[03:24:35.410] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
But you

**[03:24:36.370] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
don't have a repository for aliases used in confidential or intelligence operations, correct?

**[03:24:41.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, that would have no basis, Your Honor, because it has not been established that there are really aliases that used in relation to confidential funds. In fact, it is the humble submission of the prosecution, Your Honor, that aliases are used for intelligence funds but not for confidential funds.

**[03:24:59.490] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, if I

**[03:24:59.970] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
may respond briefly.

**[03:25:01.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel, before I make a

**[03:25:03.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ruling.

**[03:25:03.390] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, it is precisely the subject matter of this witness, Your Honor, and I think the court should be elucidated on this matter. In fact, one of our good senators even inquired on the matter, Your Honor.

**[03:25:13.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
If I may, Your Honor.

**[03:25:15.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No

**[03:25:15.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
need, counsel. Counsel, the witness already, Attorney Justin, the witness already answered that the only list of aliases they have are those approved by the court.

**[03:25:27.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[03:25:28.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
any other type of aliases are not With you, Ms. Grande.

**[03:25:34.330] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, your honor.

**[03:25:35.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, pag

**[03:25:36.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
may alias na hindi

**[03:25:36.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
aprobado ng court, yung ginagamit, the pseudonyms used by actors, for example, and actresses, it's not with you?

**[03:25:44.620] Marizza B. Grande**  
It's not with us, sir.

**[03:25:46.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll give you a particular example. Kausap ko lang si former Senate President Sotto kanina. Walang nakalagay sa inyong Chiquito dahil yung pangalan niya ay Rodolfo... Tito [unclear]?

**[03:26:01.760] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Augusto Pangan. So wala sa inyong nakalagay na Chiquito dahil hindi naman judicially approved yun.

**[03:26:07.410] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kung hindi po judicially approved, wala po kaming copy.

**[03:26:11.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[03:26:11.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your witness counsel.

**[03:26:12.630] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Turning back to my cross, Your Honor. Thank you. Hindi rin nagtatrack or nagkikip ng record yung PSA ng mga code names. Tama po ba?

**[03:26:20.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama, sir.

**[03:26:21.670] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Hindi

**[03:26:22.250] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
rin nagtatrack or nagkikip ng record ng PSA ng mga operational identities. Tama po ba?

**[03:26:28.030] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po yan part ng mandate namin, Your Honor.

**[03:26:30.550] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Correct. Now, the PSA through the CRS database keeps a record of pseudonyms that are judicially approved. But does it keep a record of pseudonyms used by our politicians? For example, and if I hope the lead prosecutor does not mind, Jinky Bitrics for example?

**[03:26:49.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Already asked and answered, Your Honor. In fact, the presiding officer has already called the attention of the defense counsel and explained that this witness has already explained that the only um [unclear] that they keep are those that were judicially approved your honor

**[03:27:03.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Well, unless judicially approved yung ginagamit ni Jinky, which I doubt. But yes, the witness may answer.

**[03:27:11.450] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[03:27:12.750] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes

**[03:27:13.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
po, sir. Only those with judicially authority ang na-annotate at na-re-register and therefore yun lang po yung nasa CRS.

**[03:27:22.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So to

**[03:27:22.790] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clarify,

**[03:27:23.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
your CRS does not contain nicknames?

**[03:27:29.310] Marizza B. Grande**  
No, sir. Nicknames are not also legal names.

**[03:27:33.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Full name ang nakalagay dun, hindi nicknames, although nicknames are legal names.

**[03:27:40.070] Marizza B. Grande**  
Only the first name, sir.

**[03:27:42.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is recorded in your CRS?

**[03:27:44.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:27:45.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
But nicknames are not illegal.

**[03:27:49.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Even if it's not registered in the CRS, it's not necessarily illegal. Let's say it's a

**[03:27:55.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
nickname.

**[03:27:57.900] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po lahat yun naka-capture din sa CRS, Sir. And I think hindi naman po siguro illegal.

**[03:28:04.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At hindi porkit wala sa CRS ay illegal na, di ba? Tama, Ma'am? Hindi porkit wala sa CRS, illegal na. Let's say

**[03:28:12.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
nickname nga, halimbawa.

**[03:28:13.480] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, Sir.

**[03:28:14.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Attorney Justin?

**[03:28:16.520] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. Returning to my cross. Madam Witness. Sinabi niyo po kanina na pina-identify at pina-verify po yung PSA ng H.O.R. ng mga pangalan. Ilang mga pangalan po kung naalala niyo?

**[03:28:30.130] Marizza B. Grande**  
Doon po sa DepEd, 677 po, and sa OVP List, 1,992.

**[03:28:36.830] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
At nung kinundak niyo po yung verification, you are not aware that these were aliases, correct?

**[03:28:44.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
No information sir whether these are aliases.

**[03:28:47.260] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You also had no information or you are not aware whether these names were operational code names, correct?

**[03:28:52.620] Marizza B. Grande**  
No information sir.

**[03:28:54.180] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You also had no information whether these names come from intelligence operatives, correct?

**[03:28:59.620] Marizza B. Grande**  
We treat this as a regular na sinasubmit for verification which are considered as registered names.

**[03:29:08.420] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
So Madam Witness, a few more questions. In confirming the results of the PSA certification in today's trial, you are only testifying on what the PSA found or did not find in your CRS database. Tama po ba?

**[03:29:23.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
The certifications that we issued are only based on the records that is available or not in the database.

**[03:29:31.420] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Correct.

**[03:29:32.100] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And you cannot in all certainty, Ma'am Grande, testify today whether the name subject of the PSA certifications are even aliases used in confidential operations, correct?

**[03:29:43.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
We don't know if those are aliases.

**[03:29:45.060] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
And assuming whether those are aliases, you cannot also, in all certainty, testify today whether these names do not or do belong to real and existing persons, correct?

**[03:29:56.300] Marizza B. Grande**  
I can only attest, sir, if these records are available in the data.

**[03:29:59.960] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
No

**[03:30:00.580] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
further questions, Your Honor.

**[03:30:01.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, can I just have five minutes to organize my redirect, Your Honor?

**[03:30:05.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may, Counsel. I will ask if there is a senator-judge who wishes to intervene so that we don't waste time. Can I have the list, please?

**[03:30:16.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In the order that they made known their desire to make interjections, Senator Bam Aquino is recognized for his interjection.

**[03:30:30.920] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
I had a

**[03:30:31.480] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
question earlier, pero siguro po mabilis na lang.

**[03:30:33.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, you have 2 minutes sir. You may proceed.

**[03:30:36.350] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Ma'am, yung binabanggit kanina na mga pangalan na hindi nyo po nakaka-capture sa database, yung mga napapanganak pero hindi po nare-rehistro, nagpapakasal, hindi po nare-rehistro, o namatay na hindi nyo po alam. Would you have data on anong percentage po niyan compared sa kabuuan ng database po ninyo?

**[03:30:57.760] Marizza B. Grande**  
What we have sir is the 2020 na census of population on birth registration which provides that 96.6% of all the Filipinos are registered. So meron po kaming mga information nationwide kung saan po ito based po dun sa census and that's where we targeted yung Birth Registration Project po namin since 2022. And as of this August, nakaregister na po kami ng around 600,000 po na births.

**[03:31:31.720] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So, largely 4% yung hindi niyo po nakakapture?

**[03:31:35.780] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung sa 2024 sir, which is unofficial now, there's an increase of about 97 to 97.1% na registration na po.

**[03:31:48.280] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yes. So, 3%. Tama ba? Tama ba yung pag-iintindi ko dun sa numero?

**[03:31:53.510] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir. 3% of the population na lang po yung kinacapture natin.

**[03:31:57.890] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung hindi nyo po nakacapture?

**[03:32:00.570] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes sir.

**[03:32:01.530] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
At ano po yung profile ng 3% po? Sila po ba nasa GIDA area? Yung geographically isolated area?

**[03:32:11.990] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Ano po yung profile ng 3% na hindi nyo po nakacapture sa inyong

**[03:32:15.930] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
database?

**[03:32:16.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Karamihan po dito, Your Honor, yung mga indigenous peoples, Muslim Pilipinos, at yung mga nasa GIDA areas or remote areas at tayo po'y nakipag-partner sa mga local civil registrars for mobile registrations.

**[03:32:33.060] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay.

**[03:32:33.580] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Yung hindi po naka-capture na marriage or death, do you have data on that?

**[03:32:40.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
For the death, sir, as I've mentioned a while ago, merong mga estimates kami na ginawa. which is around mga 84% yung death registration. So yung mga programa naka-focus din sa IAC for the delayed registration po.

**[03:32:58.770] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
So

**[03:32:59.190] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
mas malaki po yun ma'am, 16% yung hindi nyo po naka-capture na

**[03:33:02.630] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
death?

**[03:33:02.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes sir. But mostly po yung mga death registration ay sa mga Muslim brothers po natin. As to the marriages sir, ito yung wala pa tayong mga study kung ilan yung mga nagpapakasal na hindi pa nakapagparehistro.

**[03:33:23.090] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. So ulitin ko lang po. So pag may mga pangalan na hindi nyo po nahahanap, probably nasa 3% lang po yung posibleng hindi nyo po nakaka-capture sa database. and sa marriages, up to 14%. Pero largely, yung majority ng mga Pilipino nasa database po ninyo.

**[03:33:49.380] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:33:50.380] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Hindi

**[03:33:50.580] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
lang po majority, almost all Filipinos nasa database po ninyo.

**[03:33:54.520] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, your honor. In fact, as of now, we have around 143 million birth records na nasa database na po ng

**[03:34:02.460] Marizza B. Grande**  
PSA.

**[03:34:02.920] Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino**  
Okay. Mr. Presiding Officer, siguro po just sa manifestation, siyempre po, Itong pinag-uusapan natin will really only be relevant if these are real names. Kung totoong tao ito, kaya yung testigo po nagtetestify kung posibleng bang totoo-too o hindi. Kung alias po ito, ibang usapan po yun. Kasi syempre kung alias yan, wala talaga yan sa database ni Ms. Grande. But even the alias itself has not been established or has not been admitted to. by the defense, if I'm not wrong. And there's only one person who said na ang tingin niya ay alias at yun po si Gina Acosta. Dun po sa, I'm not sure kung ako po yung nagtanong o may ibang senyador na nagtanong, but sinabi ni Ms. Gina Acosta para sa kanya, alias po yung mga pangalan. So, Mr. Presiding Officer, in the interest of time, baka maganda rin po ma-explore kung alias ba yan o hindi. Kung ang mga pangalan na yan ba ay may totoong pangalan na nasa likod nito na matagal na rin pong napag-uusapan ng mga senator-judges. Yun lang po, Mr. President Officer. Maraming salamat.

**[03:35:17.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. On that point, Senator-Judge Aquino Witness Gina Acosta also said she has no personal knowledge as to who Colonel Lachica supposedly gave the monies to. [unclear] she thought it may be aliases. Yes, the next to avail would be Senator Erwin Tulfo. After Senator-Judge Tulfo, Attorney Mae, will you be ready? Okay, Senator-Judge Tulfo, you may proceed sir, you have two minutes.

**[03:35:46.130] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[03:35:49.310] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Miss Witness, nabanggit po itong mga pangalan na si [unclear]. Medyo may recall po yung mga pangalan nila kasi mga yung apelido po nila yung isa yung pangalan na nakatanggap. Na-check nyo rin ho ba ito?

**[03:36:20.250] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Doon sa inyong records?

**[03:36:23.390] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[03:36:27.070] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sa sobrang dami hindi ko masyadong matandaan but lahat po nung binanggit ninyo like nandun po yung mga resulta sa aming certification.

**[03:36:36.270] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright. May pagkakataon ba na sa civil registry po records ay maaaring hindi po conclusive bagamat existing po yung isang tao? May mga possibility po ba ganun?

**[03:36:50.370] Marizza B. Grande**  
For this particular case po, Your Honor, May mga yung mga single match na sinasabi namin yan yung exact match ibig sabihin unique po na lumabas na merong record po sa CRS database. Pero kung tatanungin niyo po sa akin kung nag-iexist sila po yan, I cannot speculate po your honor.

**[03:37:14.850] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay.

**[03:37:17.650] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Pupwede po kaya na may instance po na yung mga pangalan na isinumiti sa inyo ay hindi pa po na-register sa inyo or dahil wala pa po silang late registration? Could it be possible? Kasi marami tayong naririnig kahit lalo na po ipang nakatira po sa mga malalayang lugar, mga katutubo nating kababayan ang dami-dami pang hindi pa po nakare-rehistro kahit sa civil registry.

**[03:37:44.850] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor. Kung hindi pa po sila nag-process ng delayed registration, mag-negative result po sila sa PSA.

**[03:37:52.670] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Chinet niyo rin po ba sa PhilSys o sa National ID System kung nandoon sa kanila naman pangalan ng mga isinumiti sa inyo? Did you ever coordinate with PhilSys?

**[03:38:05.130] Marizza B. Grande**  
No po, Sir. I think may provision po doon sa National ID that

**[03:38:15.860] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po kami pwede mag-divulge unless there is a court order.

**[03:38:20.560] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ah, okay. So I mean to say, hindi po kayo pwede magtanong man lang. I mean to copy, to check.

**[03:38:26.720] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Just

**[03:38:27.160] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
to confirm, ito ba nandiyan sa record niyo, itong mga pangalan na ito?

**[03:38:32.200] Marizza B. Grande**  
For the checking po sa national ID, hindi pa po namin nagawa, sir.

**[03:38:36.160] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Hindi pa ninyo nagawa?

**[03:38:37.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:38:37.340] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright. Panguling question nila ma'am. Sabi niyo 143 na po. As of when yung mga birth registration natin?

**[03:38:45.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung mga nasa database po ng PSA, it range even as early as 1904 yung mga nakita ko po sa records sa database. And even recently po, may mga nagdi-delayed registration nasa pre-Spanish, yung Spanish time po. na yung mga nag-a-avail ng dual citizenship. So yun po yung records po natin.

**[03:39:08.620] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Alright. That's all for me, Mr. President.

**[03:39:11.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Attorney Mae. You may proceed with your Redirect When you're ready

**[03:39:21.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Magandang hapon po ulit, Ms. Grande. Kanina po, tinatanong kayo ng Defense Counsel kung lahat ng birth, kung masasabi mo ng lahat, kung masasabi mo... na lahat ng kapanganakan ay naka-register sa PSA. At ang sabi niyo, hindi. Nang tinanong kayo ni Senator Bam kung ilang porsyento, ang sabi mo 96.6% and you cited the census in 2020.

**[03:39:49.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero

**[03:39:50.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sinabi niyo rin in the course of the cross-examination na meron kayong mga programs to address the problems in registration. Tama pa.

**[03:40:03.530] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes ma'am.

**[03:40:04.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon ano naman pong naging development sa rate ng registration with all these programs that you initiated?

**[03:40:15.590] Marizza B. Grande**  
Since 2022

**[03:40:18.410] Marizza B. Grande**  
po na nag almost

**[03:40:27.410] Marizza B. Grande**  
600

**[03:40:27.830] Marizza B. Grande**  
,000 and dun po sa recent na 2024 na census of population and CBMS although hindi pa po officially Nakikita na namin yung pag-increase ng birth registration up to 97 to 97.1% or equivalent po ito to 3.3 million na unregistered na lang po. So, ayun po, from that trend po, ma-observe natin na dumadami na po yung nare-register dahil sa libreng pagpaparehistro ng [unclear] po.

**[03:41:03.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Nasabi ninyo na as of 2024, nasa 97% na Nang kapanganakan ang registered. Kung sa ganyang porsyento, inla naman ang unregistered na birth or kapanganakan?

**[03:41:17.540] Marizza B. Grande**  
Nasa 3.3 to 3.4 million po yung unregistered.

**[03:41:22.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Kung ang porsyento po ng hindi nakarehistro ng kapanganakan ay 3%, sa bawat 100 [unclear] isinisilang, ilan po sa kanila ang hindi nakarehistro more or less?

**[03:41:33.100] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ibig sabihin po, 3 ang hindi nakarehistro sa 100 po.

**[03:41:37.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:41:38.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yung census po na inyong binabanggit, ang nire-record lamang nito ay birth registration. Tama po ba?

**[03:41:45.360] Marizza B. Grande**  
Tama po. Nag-a-ask lang po ng questions on birth registration.

**[03:41:49.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ano naman po, Ms. Grande, ang sinusukat ng verification ng PSA?

**[03:41:56.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Para po dito sa request na to, lahat po nung birth, marriage, at death po. Tinignan namin.

**[03:42:02.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, kung yung census, Kaparehong paraan po sinusukat ng census yung ginagawa ng PSA sa verification. Ano naman po ang mangyayari sa porsyento ng registration or porsyento ng mga taong may records with the PSA?

**[03:42:21.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung

**[03:42:21.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sinabi ninyo na yung sa census ang tinitingnan lamang ay birth registration. Sa PSA, tinitingnan yung tatlong records. Diba? Birth, marriage, and death. Ngayon, Kung yung census, tinitingnan din itong tatlong records na ito, hindi lang birth, kasama ang marriage at ang death, ano sa tingin mo ang effect nito dun sa porsyento ng merong registration records?

**[03:42:51.370] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ibig kong sabihin, while individually siguro ay ire-report yan sa existence ng birth, marriage, and death, pero pag overall, pag samasamahin mo, mas malaki po yung chance na Mas marami pong makikita ng registration po.

**[03:43:08.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Doon naman punta naman po tayo dun sa sinubmit ng House of Representatives sa PSA for verification. Meron pong 2,669 names. Tama po ba?

**[03:43:20.930] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po.

**[03:43:21.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:43:22.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At sinabi niyo rin po in the course of the direct examination na 1,685 names had no records of corresponding birth. Marriage or death. Tama po ba? Naalala niyo po yun?

**[03:43:36.000] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po.

**[03:43:37.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, kung ganun po yung bilang, ilan po ang porsyento ng unregistered dun sa 2,669?

**[03:43:47.290] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sa pangkalahatan po, lumalabas na 63%.

**[03:43:51.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, kung 63% ang unregistered sa porsyentong yan, kung ang porsyento na walang anumang civil registry record ay 63%, sa bawat 100 kataong isinisilang, ilan po sa kanila ang walang record?

**[03:44:10.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ibig sabihin 63 po sa kada 100 po na tao.

**[03:44:15.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
63 as opposed to 3 sa bawat 100 tao. Tama ba?

**[03:44:21.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Opo, opo.

**[03:44:21.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:44:31.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa inyong 25 taon po sa PSA, gaano po kadalas ninyong natatagpuan na sa bawat 100 pangalang i-verify ninyo sa PSA CRS 63 ang walang anumang civil registry records.

**[03:44:47.990] Marizza B. Grande**  
Rare po ito ma'am because dun sa mga government agencies na i-verify po namin, hindi po ganoon kataas masyado yung mga resulta.

**[03:45:00.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero in the ordinary course of PSA verification, nagco-conduct po kayo ng PSA verification, tama po ba?

**[03:45:08.730] Marizza B. Grande**  
sa iba't

**[03:45:09.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
iba pong mga request po ng ahensya po.

**[03:45:12.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayong tanong ko po, sa bawat gaano po kadalas ninyong na-experience na sa bawat 100 taong bine-verify, 63 doon ay walang birth record?

**[03:45:26.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm clarifying your honor because the witness earlier...

**[03:45:30.060] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
The court already ruled

**[03:45:30.740] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
your

**[03:45:30.900] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
honor.

**[03:45:31.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's a

**[03:45:31.600] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
63%

**[03:45:33.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[03:45:34.430] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sorry, Your Honor. The answer of the witness, she limited her answer earlier, Your Honor, to requests coming from agencies. Now, I'm asking regular verifications, Your Honor, not limited to those coming from requests from agencies.

**[03:45:47.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To

**[03:45:48.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
clarify, Attorney Mae, regular verifications meaning yung mga walk-in na nagtatanong sa kanila,

**[03:45:53.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
yun

**[03:45:54.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ang tinatanong mo?

**[03:45:55.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your

**[03:45:55.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Honor. In a day?

**[03:45:57.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
In a month?

**[03:45:59.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
It doesn't matter your honor. Basta for every 100% po nang nagre-request ng verification, ilan po dito? Gaano po kadalas na 63 tao in every 100 person ang walang kahit anumang records?

**[03:46:14.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Specify counsel,

**[03:46:15.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
attorney Ms. Grande, in a month na may nagre-request sa inyo ng verification, ilan porosyento yung walang records sa inyo?

**[03:46:22.150] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based

**[03:46:23.190] Marizza B. Grande**  
po sa data namin sir, your honor, for the request of birth, marriage, and death, nag mga around 7-8% lang po yung mga negative record.

**[03:46:33.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So mataas sa 3%?

**[03:46:36.010] Marizza B. Grande**  
Mataas po yung positive sir.

**[03:46:40.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Ms. Grande, ano naman pong resulta po ang karaniwang inaasahan ng PSA sa isang listahan na merong 2,669 na pangalan?

**[03:46:52.100] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Misleading, Your

**[03:46:52.780] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Honor.

**[03:46:53.320] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
It assumes that there is already an expectation on the part of the PSA, Your Honor. The

**[03:46:58.500] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
question assumes.

**[03:46:59.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, based on her experience, Your Honor, because this witness has been with the PSA for already 25 years, Your Honor, so I am asking her, based on her experience, ano yung karaniwang inaasahan kapag binibigyan ng listan for verification na merong 2,669 na pangalan, Your Honor? Ano yung... Ina-expect nila relative to the number of names with corresponding...

**[03:47:25.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll sustain it on the ground that there's no basis, counsel. But let me ask you, Ms. Grande, ito ba ang unang pagkakataon na nahiningan kayo ng verification sa CRS ninyo ng mahigit isang libong pangalan?

**[03:47:39.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po, Your Honor. Madalas po kami makatanggap sa iba't ibang ahensya.

**[03:47:44.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Na

**[03:47:44.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ganung karami?

**[03:47:45.420] Marizza B. Grande**  
Opo. But dumadaan po ito sa data matching na process po namin, which is exact match po sa name na similar sa request po ng House of Representative. Now dito po sa House of Representative, individual po ito, Your Honor.

**[03:48:02.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi ito ang unang pagkakataon na may nanghingi sa inyo ng lump sum na mga pangalan para tingnan.

**[03:48:08.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[03:48:09.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung mga nakaraang karanasan ninyo na may humingi ng ganito karaming. Pangalan, ilan yung prosyento ng may record kayo at wala?

**[03:48:18.250] Marizza B. Grande**  
Based po dun sa aming pong data na sa 38% lang po.

**[03:48:23.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
38% yung walang

**[03:48:24.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
tumama sa record?

**[03:48:25.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po yun.

**[03:48:26.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[03:48:26.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, I will

**[03:48:27.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
summarize ha. 3% yung sa tingin nyo wala sa CRS nyo sa kabuan. 7% in a month's time yung walk-in na nagtatanong-tanong ang wala sa record nyo. At dito 30?

**[03:48:41.430] Marizza B. Grande**  
38%.

**[03:48:41.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
8%.

**[03:48:42.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. Your witness, counsel, Attorney Mae.

**[03:48:45.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
That would be all for redirect, Your Honor.

**[03:48:46.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay,

**[03:48:47.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
recross, any?

**[03:48:47.900] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Nothing to recross, your honor.

**[03:48:49.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We now proceed to the intervention of our senator-judges. Senator-Judge Villanueva is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed when you're ready.

**[03:48:59.860] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Senate President.

**[03:49:06.500] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Ms. Grande, binanggit po ninyo 143 million yung registration sa inyo ng birth. And nabanggit nyo 1904 yung huli. Ilan po yung deaths noon para makita natin ngayon yung current denominator?

**[03:49:21.980] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yung death po nasa mga 29 million, Your Honor.

**[03:49:26.460] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
29?

**[03:49:32.020] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So mga 13 million. Madam Witness, binabanggit niyo po kanina na yun pong sa kabuuan ng inyong experience, pinakamalaki na po yung 7 to 9 percent na wala doon sa inyong record. Whether...

**[03:49:51.830] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Walk-in lang po sila or hindi? 7-8% lang?

**[03:49:58.090] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir, based on data.

**[03:49:59.930] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So dito sa nakita ninyo at ang binanggit nyo po doon sa hiningi ng ahensya, dito sa isang particular na ahensya, 63% yung unregistered. So ang tanong ko po, masasabi nyo po ba na ito ay usual, unusual, or highly unusual?

**[03:50:22.080] Marizza B. Grande**  
Well sir, based dun sa results po, hindi ko po siya ma-determine kasi po nag-base lang kami sa percentage at yung kung whether registered ang nasa PSA po, yan po yung record. So kung registration, posible po na nasa...

**[03:50:43.070] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
I'm

**[03:50:43.310] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
asking this in your own personal capacity as a statistician. Is it usual? Unusual? Highly unusual? Because you are mentioning na 7-8% lang eh. But this time it's 63%.

**[03:50:56.610] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sir, it is unusual.

**[03:50:58.090] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
It's not highly unusual.

**[03:51:01.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Not naman

**[03:51:01.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
hi

**[03:51:02.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
sir. Unusual lang po.

**[03:51:03.220] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
I'll take that. Wala hong mali at tamang sagot dun sa... I mean kayo lang po yung makakapag [unclear] personal niyo po yan. Gusto ko nung tanongin, may mga ilang ahensya din po ba na sa inyo kumukonsulta, sa inyo humihingi ng ganitong record other than this particular issue that we're talking about?

**[03:51:20.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ibat-ibang government agencies po your honor. Marami po.

**[03:51:23.480] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Opo. At dun din po, ano naman po yung percentage? Ganito rin ho ba kalaki na... Kasi... Ano yan, no?

**[03:51:33.260] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Fix na yan. Yung 7-8% na wala, 3% unregistered. Pero doon sa mga humihingi, umaabot din po ba sila doon sa 63%?

**[03:51:43.480] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi nga po, sir, sa mga ibang ahensya.

**[03:51:46.520] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Ano yung average na nakukuha nyo, percentage-wise?

**[03:51:51.150] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi ko po siya na lahat-lahat ng ahensya, sir, but there are...

**[03:51:55.690] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Just the average, in

**[03:51:56.870] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
your own... average lang po.

**[03:52:01.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Iba-iba po kasi, sir, eh. Pero siguro...

**[03:52:04.420] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
May umaabot ng 50%?

**[03:52:07.440] Marizza B. Grande**  
Wala po, eh. Mga 30 to 40%. Yun yung pinakamalaki.

**[03:52:12.280] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Thank you.

**[03:52:13.140] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
May explanation po na some of the names used dun sa confidential fund documents ay may actually be aliases. And from the perspective ng PSA, kung alias lamang po yung ibibigay sa inyo, walang underlying true identity, may paraan pa po ba ang PSA to verify that the alias corresponds to a real person?

**[03:52:32.580] Marizza B. Grande**  
The only way sir is to provide kung sino po yung mga tao na ito na gumagamit kung yan po ay alias, ibigay sa amin para ma-verify po yung registered name po.

**[03:52:45.500] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
How do you verify?

**[03:52:46.260] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sir, I mean po, if they are aliases, Hindi po namin yun malalaman. Pero sa likod po ng alias, meron po silang totoong identity po ba. So kung may bibigay po yun, mabe-verify po namin.

**[03:53:01.050] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So kung walang ibigay, hindi?

**[03:53:02.170] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po.

**[03:53:02.810] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Or if it's the court who issued it, yung bilanggit niyo po kanina.

**[03:53:08.170] Marizza B. Grande**  
Pag sa court po, Your Honor, if nag-grant na po may period of time na dapat siyang i-register at nang mai-annotate sa kanyang civil registry document.

**[03:53:20.450] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
Sige po. If a body establishes that an alias corresponds to an actual individual, what identifying information would ordinarily be necessary to perform that verification?

**[03:53:34.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
Sir, similarly po, pangalan. kung sino po yung alias na yun at iba pong identifying information like date of birth, place of birth at magulang, pangalan ng magulang.

**[03:53:48.390] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So

**[03:53:48.650] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
kung lahat po ay aliases dun sa acknowledgement receipt without any independently verifiable information connecting that alias to the real identity ang PSA po itself cannot establish that the person behind that receipt actually exists. Is that correct?

**[03:54:06.560] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:54:07.220] Sen. Joel Villanueva**  
So, yun lang po, ginong Pangulo, at gusto lamang natin sabihin na hindi ho natin hinihingi sa PSA na magkaroon ho kayo ng opinion on whether or not using aliases is proper. And the narrower point here is simply what can and cannot be independently verified from the records presented. Maraming salamat, Madam [unclear].

**[03:54:31.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator-Judge Villanueva.

**[03:54:37.490] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Senator-Judge, before Senator-Judge, the Senate President is recognized. You have two minutes, sir. You may proceed.

**[03:54:43.750] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you,

**[03:54:44.650] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Mr. Presiding Officer. Magandang hapon, Ms. Grande. Ms. Grande, narinig ko kanina na 25 years na kayo sa PSA. At gusto ko malaman kung ang isang pangalan, walang birth certificate, walang death certificate, walang marriage certificate, ito ba ay nag-i-exist na tao, nabubuhay na tao? Based on your... experience in the PSA?

**[03:55:10.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Maari po your honor kasi kung wala pong record sa PSA but there are process na i-undergo nila like delayed registration para magka-record po.

**[03:55:23.430] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Alam ko yun but based on your experience sa tingin niyo ba itong tao nag-eexist o nabubuhay? O itong pangalan nag-eexist o nabubuhay na tao?

**[03:55:34.250] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Based on your experience, sa dami nyo nang narinig ko kanina, ang daming agencies na pumupunta sa inyo, based on your experience, I'm sure may mga ganitong instances rin kayo na-encounter. So sa experience nyo ba, itong mga ganitong pangalan, nabubuhay, nage-exist na tao?

**[03:55:52.450] Marizza B. Grande**  
So Your Honor, very slim yung chance kasi kung wala kang birth certificate, mayroon naman mga tao na Walang birth certificate pero nagpapakasal. Or kung namatay sila, mandatory na i-re-register. So at least siguro isa sa mga vital event na yan ay may record na magpapatunay na nag-exist yung isang tao po.

**[03:56:15.650] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Kaya based on your experience, mahirap?

**[03:56:21.380] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor.

**[03:56:24.940] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Nakita ko kasi nag-issue kayo ng mga negative certification. Again, based on your experience, itong negative certification na ini-issue niyo for death, for birth, marriage, and death, nagagamit ba ito sa korte? O nagamit ba ito sa korte?

**[03:56:41.230] Marizza B. Grande**  
Actually, Your Honor, yung PSA certifications ay marami pong mga ahensya. Even the courts require us to submit itong mga to verify whether there are birth, marriage, or death of a person. So, parang nag-establish ito ng proof kung namatay na ba yung isang tao. So, sa all walks po yata ng government transactions and private, hinihingi nila ang PSA certification as a proof sa pag-ano ng mga iba't ibang transaction.

**[03:57:14.130] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Based on your experience, nagamit ba, let's say, wala siyang birth, wala siyang marriage, wala siyang death? At ang sabi ng Korte, itong tao ay hindi nabubuhay o hindi na-exist. Meron bang ganyan ng mga instances na ginamit yung PSA negative certification?

**[03:57:30.070] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yun po sir. Karaniwan pong nagbibigay kami ng mga certifications sa mga RTCs po.

**[03:57:35.930] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero nagamit ba? Yun

**[03:57:37.190] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
ang gusto

**[03:57:37.490] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
ko malaman.

**[03:57:38.230] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir.

**[03:57:38.970] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
At ang hatol ng Korte, itong pangalan na ito, hindi ito nabubuhay, hindi nag-exist.

**[03:57:45.670] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Meron kang

**[03:57:46.210] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
ganun na alam?

**[03:57:47.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi lang po ako aware kung may mga ganong decision po ang RTC.

**[03:57:51.820] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Pero

**[03:57:52.020] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
nagamit?

**[03:57:52.680] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[03:57:53.460] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Okay. And then, sa mga ganitong panahon, pag ang isang tao walang birth certificate, ano ang, sa pagkala mo, ano yung mga pwede o hindi niya pwedeng gawin dahil wala siyang birth certificate?

**[03:58:09.140] Marizza B. Grande**  
Well, napaka-importante po yung birth certificate, sir. For one, pagbata,

**[03:58:15.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
para magkaroon ng pangalan, identity sa school enrollment. Yan po yung mga requirements. And in fact, sir, even yung mga 80 years old and over, ngayon po ay marami nagpapa-late to avail of the incentives sa government. So, we are aware that yung mga kababayan natin ay Lahat gusto na rin magpa-register ng kanilang birth certificate dahil nire-recognize nila na hindi sila maka-access sa anumang serbisyo without the birth certificate po.

**[03:58:46.950] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Ito mahalaga ang birth certificate sa pang-araw-araw na pamumuhay in other words.

**[03:58:51.750] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po sir, your honor.

**[03:58:53.090] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Itong narinig ko kanina na actually tinitignan namin yung tinitignan ko yung data, 63% [unclear] sa inyo na pangalan walang records out of the 266 names. Nung nakita niyo ito, ano ang naging reaction ng PSA? Nagkaroon ba kayo ng internal investigation? Ikaw ba mismo bilang matagal nang nagtatrabaho sa PSA, nagkaroon ba kayo ng internal investigation kung bakit ganito kalaki yung walang records?

**[03:59:32.170] Marizza B. Grande**  
Ang ginawa namin sir after the verification is nag-summarize lang kung ilan yung mga records po na mga wala at nag-conduct ng further verification doon sa mga names na lagi pong nakasubaybay din po kami like yung kay Mary Grace Piatos and then we check every now and then kung may mga darating na documents or wala.

**[04:00:00.000] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Internal investigation na kung totoong tao ito o hindi totoong tao ito, nabubuhay ba itong tao? May ganun bang ginawa ang PSA?

**[04:00:06.720] Marizza B. Grande**  
Wala po, Your Honor.

**[04:00:07.680] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Thank you, Mr. President.

**[04:00:08.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank

**[04:00:09.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you, Mr. President. Senator [unclear], you have two minutes, ma'am. You may proceed in your ready.

**[04:00:21.410] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Ms. Marizza, napakahalaga po ng authority ng PSA sa usapin ng mga civil registration records. Halimbawa ang laki ng tulong ng authority ninyo para patunayan noon na hindi totoong Pilipino si Alice Guo at invento lang yung identity niya. So ang tanong ko po sa inyo, sa mata ng PSA, totoong tao po ba yung nakapangalan sa mga acknowledgement receipts na isinumite ng OVP at ng DepEd?

**[04:01:00.580] Marizza B. Grande**  
We treated as a name na kagaya po ng mga requests na sinasubmit ng any government agencies or an individual po ma'am.

**[04:01:12.970] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
At base sa findings ninyo, yung pinakita nyo sa aming kanina na 63% ay walang niisa sa tatlong records ng birth, ng marriage, ng death.

**[04:01:26.970] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Tinuturing ba ng PSA na totoong tao itong mga 63% or tinuturing nyo na hindi totoong tao?

**[04:01:36.120] Marizza B. Grande**  
Considering po ma'am na we have no idea kung alias is to, we treated this as regular lang po na request na parang as a registered name po siya.

**[04:01:48.290] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Pag sinasabi nyo pong tinreat nyo na regular requests, ibig bang sabihin na

**[04:01:55.800] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Presumption nyo, totoong tao ito? Or may presumption ba kayo na kung aliases, hindi ito totoong tao?

**[04:02:03.160] Marizza B. Grande**  
Like I've mentioned, ma'am, we have no idea that this is our aliases. So, similar to other requests, binerify po namin as if these are the registered names in the PSA database po.

**[04:02:20.840] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
One last follow-up on this, Ms. Marizza. Paano na iba yung findings nyo nung iniimbestiga namin yung kaso ni Alice Guo kumpara sa findings ninyo dito sa mga acknowledgement receipts? Ibig sabihin may pagkakapareho ba o may pagkakaiba ba yung assessment nyo dun sa findings nyo sa dalawang sitwasyong ito?

**[04:02:44.270] Marizza B. Grande**  
Doon sa file po, doon sa case po ni Alice Guo, we did an investigation ma'am because

**[04:02:53.880] Marizza B. Grande**  
The birth has been recorded and registered and following yung mga investigations conducted, bumaba po kami para mag-conduct ng fact-finding investigation po.

**[04:03:07.440] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
At dito naman sa tinatanong namin sa inyo, wala naman po kayong investigation or fact-finding. At oo nga naman pala, sa kaso ni Guo Hua Ping-e, mayroon po tayong pinagsimulan noon na birth record or registration.

**[04:03:22.100] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[04:03:22.780] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Okay

**[04:03:23.040] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
po. Iba dito sa 63% na wala ni isa sa tatlo. Huling tanong ko, Mr. Presiding Officer, if I may, kaugnay ng binanggit ni Ms. Marizza sa aliases, tanong po sa defense kay attorney.

**[04:03:38.700] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Magandang hapon po, attorney.

**[04:03:40.260] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Good afternoon, good afternoon.

**[04:03:42.880] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Nakikinig po ako dun sa mga tanong niyo kay Ms. Grande at parang magulo po. Nung una, pinapakita na posibleng totoong tao ang nakapangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, hindi lang nahagip ng mga records ng PSA. Pagkatapos, pinapakita naman na kung alias, wala naman talagang records sa PSA. So for the record at malinaw na po, once and for all, ano po ba ang sinasabi ng respondent? Sa mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, mga totoong pangalan po ba ang mga iyon? Or mga aliases po ba iyon?

**[04:04:28.420] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, given that it has become a material matter, we have to couch this answer that it is classified information. But these are, in fact, aliases, Your Honor, for the consideration of this court.

**[04:04:41.260] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Alright.

**[04:04:41.820] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
But

**[04:04:42.540] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
I hope you understand, Your Honor, that in threshing out this matter, Having in mind the reminder of the good presiding officer, we will do this at the appropriate time during our presentation of evidence, Your Honor. I will veer away from making conclusions of law or facts as of the moment.

**[04:04:59.340] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Pero salamat pa rin po. Inaabangan ko rin po yung presentation ng defense ng inyong mga saksi, inyong mga ebidensya. But at least as to this point in time, salamat po dun sa panimulang pagtugon nyo sa akin.

**[04:05:18.310] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Ayon sa panig ng respondent tungkol sa mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts ay ito ay mga aliases.

**[04:05:24.690] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
You

**[04:05:25.190] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
are welcome.

**[04:05:25.810] Sen. Risa Hontiveros**  
Salamat po. At salamat po, attorney. Salamat, Ms. Marizza. Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[04:05:31.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. The avail of round two, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. You may proceed, sir. You have [unclear] minutes when you're ready.

**[04:05:43.870] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Quick clarificatory questions lamang po sa ating pong witness.

**[04:05:53.030] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Miss Marizza, tama mo ba ang sabihin na 1,322 na mga pangalan sinubuti sa inyo ay walang birth certificate? Parang halos kalahati. Is that correct?

**[04:06:03.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[04:06:04.290] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
So, kalahati po walang birth certificate?

**[04:06:07.010] Marizza B. Grande**  
For the OVP, sir, 1,322.

**[04:06:10.210] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Sa OVP lang? Wala nyo pa po kasama dyan sa Department of Education? DepEd.

**[04:06:14.490] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po.

**[04:06:15.930] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Okay. Let's move on. Sa defense naman, Atty. Justin, I have one quick question for you, sir.

**[04:06:24.300] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:06:25.220] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Yeah, please refresh my memory, Atty. Justin. Yung inyong posisyon po, correct me if I'm wrong, ay hindi porkit walang birth certificate ang isang tao, hindi na nage-exist. Tama po ba? Is that what I'm hearing? Or correct me if I'm wrong.

**[04:06:42.920] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
To clarify, Your Honor, that is not the defense position. That is what the witness testified today.

**[04:06:49.120] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Oh, so okay. So that's what the... Your position will be presented later on, correct?

**[04:06:55.680] Atty. Justin Nicol B. Gular**  
Your Honor, our position will be raised through our cross-examination and through, of course, our defense presentation of evidence. But what I can answer is, based on what the witness testified today... It does not follow, Your Honor, that if a person does not have a birth certificate, he does not exist.

**[04:07:12.790] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you. That's what I'm driving at right now, Attorney Justin. Okay, Mr. Presiding Officer, kailangan po siguro nating linawin kung ang mga pangalan sa acknowledgement receipts, ay mga pangalan ba ito ng mga tunay na tao o mga alias sa mga ito? Kasi hanggang ngayon, Nagugulahan mo tayo. Sinasabi po alias. Sinasabi po nila. They're not commenting if it's alias or not. If it's real or not. So we really have to establish siguro Mr. Presiding Officer during the next few days or weeks. Ano ba talaga itong pinag-uusapan natin totoong tao ba ito? Na nasa likod lamang itong mga aliases na ito ay mga totoong tao na nasa likod ng ikanga ng mga aliases na ito. That's what I want to find out and be clarified as a [unclear]. Thank you, sir.

**[04:08:01.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Just a few interjections from the chair. Atty. Mae, if you will please.

**[04:08:12.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Why didn't the prosecution submit all the names in the acknowledgement receipts to PSA? Why did it choose and what was the basis of choosing the names?

**[04:08:24.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, not all acknowledgement receipts contained

**[04:08:29.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Names. Some of the names are unreadable. Some only contain signatures, Your Honor.

**[04:08:35.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll

**[04:08:35.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
give an example,

**[04:08:36.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney.

**[04:08:36.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The

**[04:08:37.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
OVP acknowledgement receipts are how many?

**[04:08:40.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The ones submitted, Your Honor.

**[04:08:42.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2,669, if I remember correctly.

**[04:08:46.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
That's the

**[04:08:46.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
total, Your Honor.

**[04:08:47.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, the total

**[04:08:48.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for OVP. No, for OVP only.

**[04:08:51.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
and DepEd, Your Honor.

**[04:08:52.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, the total with DepEd would be more than 4,000,

**[04:08:55.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[04:08:55.490] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
With all due respect, Your Honor, the total for OVP is 1,992. The total for DepEd is 677.

**[04:09:05.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That you submitted with the PSA.

**[04:09:07.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes,

**[04:09:08.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor.

**[04:09:08.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's not the total number of acknowledgement receipts. The total number of acknowledgement receipts

**[04:09:14.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for

**[04:09:14.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
OVP

**[04:09:15.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
is

**[04:09:15.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2,669.

**[04:09:17.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, yes, Your Honor. I'm sorry. I got confused, Your Honor. I thought... Only the names that were submitted to the PSA.

**[04:09:24.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. So what was the basis? So for the DepEd, you submitted 677 but the total is 1,800.

**[04:09:33.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. The reason is that some acknowledgement receipts only contain signature, Your Honor. So we have no way of determining the names or to whom those signatures correspond to. And also, Your Honor, some names are unreadable.

**[04:09:47.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
My

**[04:09:49.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
question actually, attorneys. So the 63% percentage na wala sa record ng PSA is actually based on your choice of the names submitted. It's not the universe of the names in the ARs, readable or unreadable.

**[04:10:08.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. That would exclude those with unreadable names and those ARs containing only the signatures, Your Honor.

**[04:10:15.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And for that matter, the percentage can increase or decrease if you had submitted all?

**[04:10:21.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
It's possible, Your Honor.

**[04:10:22.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It can go both ways, right?

**[04:10:23.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:10:24.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. Ma'am Grande, 143 million yung nasa record po ninyo. Tama?

**[04:10:32.820] Marizza B. Grande**  
For births po, Your Honor.

**[04:10:34.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For births? Ang sabi niyo namatay ay 29 million?

**[04:10:38.220] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, po, Your Honor.

**[04:10:39.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lahat po ba nang may death certificate, may birth certificate?

**[04:10:43.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Hindi po, Your Honor.

**[04:10:44.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Anong porsyento naman po yan? Would you know? If you know?

**[04:10:52.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So pagkakapanganak, pagpapakasal at pagkamatay ang sinasabi nyo mahahagip at mahahagip yan kahit papano ng isa sa tatlo.

**[04:11:01.690] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes sir.

**[04:11:02.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero hindi pa nyo sinicheck wala pa bang AI yan na tingnan nyo kung yung namatay may birth certificate, kung yung buhay may kasal ba. Ayaw nyo bang gawin yun? Wouldn't that be an interesting piece of information on the part of PSA?

**[04:11:14.950] Marizza B. Grande**  
Kaya din sir. for AI siguro.

**[04:11:18.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So dun ba nanggalang yung figure mo na 3 million or roughly 3% ang hindi pa registrado? Kasi 143 records of birth, 29 million ang namatay. That gives you a total of 114 million based on your estimate ng census, 117 million ang population ng Pilipinas mid this year.

**[04:11:37.190] Marizza B. Grande**  
Your Honor, yung estimate on the birth registration is based on the 2020 census of population po. There's a question po dun sa household member, whether registered yung kanilang birth certificate.

**[04:11:50.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So it's based on a survey, not based on actual data?

**[04:11:53.050] Marizza B. Grande**  
Census, Your Honor.

**[04:11:55.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kaya based sa census niyo six years ago?

**[04:11:58.830] Marizza B. Grande**  
And just recently, sir, on the 2024 CBMS and POPCEN, there's another round which we are updating and naku-cross-validation na po kami doon sa CRS data which is the estimate I provided a while ago, Your Honor. That's 97 to 97.1.

**[04:12:17.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So that means to say, as you confirmed earlier, hindi talaga universal yung CRS.

**[04:12:21.960] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, sir.

**[04:12:22.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
When you say universal, hindi pa universal, hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong nabubuhay ngayon, nandun. Hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong namatay, nandun. Hindi pa lahat ng Pilipinong kinasal nasa CRS ninyo.

**[04:12:33.320] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po,

**[04:12:33.940] Marizza B. Grande**  
sir.

**[04:12:34.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Would that be a fair statement, ma'am?

**[04:12:36.020] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, your honor.

**[04:12:37.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, and finally, no, second to the last, single match entry. Kung hindi sa universal, Hindi purkit may single match entry kayo na nag-match dun sa pangalan binigay, eh siya na talaga yun. Kasi may entry kayo na 53, most likely matched. May pangalang 907 ang most likely matched sa birth, 305 ang most likely matched sa marriage, 53 ang most likely matched sa death.

**[04:13:11.280] Marizza B. Grande**  
Your Honor, pag sinabi namin na most likely, one most likely birth record, for example, using that name po, it has an exact match na may isang record po na nasa database.

**[04:13:27.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pag sinabi mong single match?

**[04:13:28.440] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po,

**[04:13:28.980] Marizza B. Grande**  
Your Honor.

**[04:13:29.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Meaning may isang kamatch siya, hindi siya madaming kamatch?

**[04:13:32.060] Marizza B. Grande**  
Isa lang po, yes, Your Honor.

**[04:13:33.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero hindi rin nangangahulugan na siya nga yun?

**[04:13:37.250] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, possible po, Your Honor.

**[04:13:39.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's possible yung hindi pa rin siya yun?

**[04:13:42.400] Marizza B. Grande**  
Possible, Your Honor.

**[04:13:43.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now,

**[04:13:44.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you're aware of RA 10172 that you can amend entries in the registry?

**[04:13:50.540] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:13:52.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, pinasatong batas na to in the past 3-5 years lamang, pagtanggap yun ng Kongreso mismo hindi ba na hindi perfecto yung talaan sa civil registry? na pwedeng may pagkakamali sa petsa man ng kapanganakan, sa araw ng kapanganakan, o sa pangalang sinurat doon.

**[04:14:12.430] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po, Your Honor. Ang mga corrections under the clerical error law, Your Honor, the RA-9048 and RA-10172 ay nire-reflect through an annotation po. So makikita pa rin po doon sa...

**[04:14:26.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Na

**[04:14:27.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
hindi na kailangan dumaan sa Korte.

**[04:14:28.770] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po Your Honor.

**[04:14:29.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pero ang sinasabi ko nga lang po ang CRS ay hindi perfectong database kaya nga po binuksan ng Kongreso ang puwang para ma-amendahan o mabago yun dahil posibleng may mga pagkakamali po doon hanggang sa ngayon.

**[04:14:43.070] Marizza B. Grande**  
Yes po Your Honor.

**[04:14:44.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Darating ba tayo sa panahon? Huling [unclear] Ms. Grande na nakaukit na sa bato yung data ng CRS na yun na

**[04:14:51.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
talaga yun, yan na yung totoo at wala nang pwedeng mabago pa?

**[04:14:53.830] Marizza B. Grande**  
May

**[04:14:54.900] Marizza B. Grande**  
mga programa na po yung PSA. Your Honor, like yung nidevelop namin ngayon na electronic CRVS. So upon birth, kailangan ma-register at ma-connect din po sa kanyang national ID. So siguro, Your Honor, mararating natin 3 to 5 years.

**[04:15:16.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Ms. Grande. If there are no other senator-judges that wish to make an interjection, we will excuse the witness.

**[04:15:27.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Going, going. Ms. Grande, you are excused. Maraming salamat po sa panahon, kooperasyon, at pagtugon sa katanungan ng magkabilang panig at gayon din ng mga senator-judges. You are excused, ma'am.

**[04:15:39.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, if I may just be recognized, Your Honor.

**[04:15:41.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Mae.

**[04:15:42.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. I'm making this manifestation, Your Honor, in response to the manifestation earlier made by the defense that as of this moment, they cannot yet disclose their position on whether the names appearing in the Acknowledgement receipts are real names or aliases, Your Honor. With all due respect, Your Honor, it's already a tad too late for the defense, Your Honor, to be adopting the position that these are aliases. As I've repeatedly manifested, Your Honor, they were already given the opportunity at the first time in the answer and second time in the pretrial, Your Honor. precisely be conducted pre-trial, Your Honor, so that the parties can lay their cards on the table. And on the basis of the issues defined during the pre-trial, the prosecution worked on its case. Your Honor, since the beginning of these proceedings, the defense has been invoking due process as if it... It's not only the defense who has the right to due process. Even the prosecution is entitled to due process. We are entitled to know what we are working on, Your Honor. The theories of their case, Your Honor. We're already at the 11th hour, Your Honor. Wala pa rin, Your Honor, [unclear]. Ano ba yung position, Your Honor?

**[04:17:09.080] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
May [unclear] ask to be recognized, Your Honor?

**[04:17:11.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Are you done, Atty. Mae?

**[04:17:12.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you your honor

**[04:17:13.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes,

**[04:17:14.920] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Atty. Sheila is recognized.

**[04:17:17.040] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
I think, Atty., the counsel appears to be interested in finding out about the position of the defense but she may perhaps have neglected the basic and the most essential idea of a fair trial and that is For the prosecution to first discharge its burden of proof. And until the prosecution hurdles that burden, then the defense may even remain silent. So I will not dignify anymore these complaints of having allegedly

**[04:17:56.570] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
failing to disclose the defense position, etc., etc., that this is already the 11th hour, that there has already been a pre-trial proceeding that should have laid the cards of the parties down. However, it is also basic and it is apparent and manifest before everyone, before this court. At sa ating mga manonood na hindi pa itong panahon para sa depensa. In fact, nasa pangalawang article pa lang po tayo ng prosecution. I respect the predicament. of the Good Counsel. However, siguro kung gusto natin ng fair trial, kailangang makita muna ng taong bayan ang ebidensya na sinasabi ng prosekusyon at hindi nagre-reklamo sa kung ano ang hindi na ipapakita ng Depensa precisely because this is not yet the time of the Defense to present its evidence or whether we will even present evidence if the proper time comes, Your Honor. Depende sa may papakita ng prosegisyon.

**[04:19:02.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
If I may quickly respond to that, Your Honor.

**[04:19:05.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, Counsel. Unfortunately, we're trying to call one more witness. We'll try to abbreviate this by [unclear] ruling. That may be a proper subject Atty. Mae, for you to object to whatever the defense will do during the presentation of their evidence-in-chief, but at this juncture, neither can I force the defense to present their evidence-in-chief nor their theory because Atty. Sheila is correct in that they may even choose to file a demurrer and decide not to present any evidence anymore. [unclear] either their perceived weakness of the evidence presented or the absence of strong evidence. Is your next witness ready, Attorney Mae?

**[04:19:53.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May I turn over, Your Honor, the...

**[04:19:55.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, the lead prosecutor, the Honorable Luistro. If I can call you, Jinky is recognized.

**[04:20:02.640] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Good afternoon, Your Honors. Before we proceed, Your Honor, may we request that Attorney Ray Robles be recognized once more. This is in relation to the testimony of former SDO of the Department of Education, Edward Fajarda.

**[04:20:18.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes.

**[04:20:19.710] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
In that case, Your Honor.

**[04:20:21.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So we can dispense, if at all, if you can dispense with this witness already. Atty. Sheila?

**[04:20:25.420] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
In that case, Your Honor, may also ask that Atty. Lindon Miguel Bacquel be also recognized. Thank you.

**[04:20:30.980] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor.

**[04:20:31.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We're back to Atty. Lindon.

**[04:20:36.480] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Pursuing the matter of the earlier discussion about the possibility of dispensing with the testimony of Mr. Fajarda, we would just like to request earlier while we were discussing the stipulations, Your Honor, the good counsel for the respondent pointed out the portions of the TSN. where he claims that the witness said that the funds were disbursed by Mr. Fajarda. And as a matter of procedural fairness, Your Honor, may we be allowed also to point out the provisions in the TSN where the witness, Mr. Fajarda, also said by himself that he actually gave or binigay yung pera or acknowledged that binigay niya yung pera. And there are four or five... 6 instances, Your Honor, in the transcript. And

**[04:21:25.490] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
if we can

**[04:21:25.870] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
just cite them, Your Honor.

**[04:21:27.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We have taken judicial notice of that, Counsel, and I believe that he did so, but that also means that from the point of view of Witness Fajarda, it seems like he is using the words interchangeably.

**[04:21:40.730] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your Honor. We'll just, for the record, so that you can

**[04:21:43.250] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
possibly

**[04:21:43.710] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
refer to

**[04:21:44.870] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
them.

**[04:21:45.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, at any rate, please proceed. Kindly cite it in the TSN. Kindly cite the relevant date and page

**[04:21:49.830] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
number.

**[04:21:50.130] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Yes, Your

**[04:21:50.410] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Honor.

**[04:21:52.340] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
So that for the appreciation of the honorable senator-judges, can we also project the particular...

**[04:21:58.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, please, Attorney Ray. You may.

**[04:22:00.360] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Thank you.

**[04:22:00.640] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
We will... The first instance, Your Honor, is during the hearing of November 25, 2024. On page 83, Your Honor, the TSN itself has been previously marked as Exhibit [unclear] for the prosecution. And we are projecting the particular portion. This is an exchange between the late Congressman Romeo Acop and the witness. And the exchange went this way. So for the first quarter, kinuha lahat ni Colonel Nolasco at dinisburst niya in seven different locations. The answer of Mr. Fajarda, Your Honor, may hindi po iyan buong 37 na ibinigay sa kanya. Mostly weekly po yan. Eh, weekly, mostly, weekly.

**[04:22:57.030] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
And the follow-up is, and what would be the average amount na ibinigay mo per week? There were some discussion and ultimately the witness said, eh sige po, your honor, nagre-range po siya sa 4, 5, 6, 4, 4 to 6 million po. That is the first instance, your honor. The second instance is on page 74 of the same TSN.

**[04:23:23.170] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Representative Acop said, So kung nangangailangan ng confidential funds sa office ng DepEd sa security officer mo ibinibigay, the answer of Mr. Fajarda is yes, your honor.

**[04:23:38.130] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
On page 77 of the same TSN, Representative Acop said, Okay, thank you. Pag binigay mo iyong pondo, is it cash? Mr. Fajarda, yes, your honor.

**[04:23:55.060] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Likewise, your honor. On page 81 of the same TSN, there is this exchange. Yung in-cash ninyong cheque, inyong cheque. Ah, opo, yes, your honor, opo.

**[04:24:12.730] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Winidro nyo, tapos binigay ninyo kay Colonel Nolasco, Colonel Dennis Nolasco. Yes, your honor. Pero hindi po buo lahat yun. Your Honor.

**[04:24:25.790] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Your Honor po. And there's also a discussion between Representative Janette Garin and the witness. Okay. Siya lang ang binigyan mo, Mr. Fajarda. Yes, Your Honor. And finally, there is this exchange between Deputy Speaker David Suarez and the witness.

**[04:24:52.770] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
The witness, the representative Suarez said, hindi, sino ang nag-designate kay Colonel Nolasco para i-disburse yung 37 million pesos every quarter? Mr. Fajarda, your honor, as part po ng trabaho niya po iyan eh, kasi confidential operations po, so sa kanya ko po i-disburse yung pera. Representative Suarez, opo, hindi... Hindi ninyo naintindihan yung sagot ko. Yung tanong ko, Mr. Fajarda, because you know it could be anybody there. So, my question is, sino ang nagbigay ng pahintulot o kapangyarihan kay Colonel Nolasco na mag-disburse noong pera? Mr. Fajarda, your honor, si VP Sara po.

**[04:25:44.820] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Also, your honor, I would like to manifest that the pertinent discussion regarding

**[04:25:51.920] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
Disbursement against giving the money could be found in the transcript on page 93 to 94 and page 304 to 306 of the transcript. Your Honor, with those manifestations, Your Honor, although we have a lot of questions for Mr. Fajarda, being the SDO, and I'm sure maybe the senator-judges would also have some questions. But in view of his state of health and as a matter of humanitarian consideration, we can dispense with the testimony of the witness.

**[04:26:32.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Subject to

**[04:26:33.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
what was stipulated, Your Honor.

**[04:26:35.080] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Your Honor, just a quick observation regarding the transcript.

**[04:26:40.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may comment,

**[04:26:42.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Lindon.

**[04:26:43.020] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
We note that the terminologies mentioned In the portions read by the prosecution, the terminologies are supplied by the congressmen who interpellate the witness, Your Honor. And it did not come from the witness himself, Your Honor. That's the only

**[04:27:05.140] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
observation, Your Honor.

**[04:27:06.160] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
There are several instances where the terminology was used by the witness himself, Your Honor. Including the first one, Your Honor.

**[04:27:15.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Answered in the affirmative in relation to the question. But you are correct, counsel. I noticed that too.

**[04:27:20.120] Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[04:27:21.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Noted. So, are you dispensing with the... Are you withdrawing rather the subpoena for Mr. Edward?

**[04:27:31.700] Atty. Reynaldo Robles**  
In view of the latest medical update and the confirmation by the doctors of the Senate... As a humanitarian consideration, we are going to dispense with the testimony of the witness and we wish him well. Thank you.

**[04:27:48.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Having withdrawn the request for subpoena for Mr. Edward Fajarda, the presiding officer hereby orders the recall of the subpoena issued to him. And for the information of the Senator Judges, a letter was submitted through his counsel by Mr. Fajarda, Attaching a medical certificate thereto, Duly attested to and confirmed by our own Director for Medical and Dental here in the Senate that Mr. Fajarda would be required another 30 days to recover and recuperate from his stroke a month ago, I believe. So ordered.

**[04:28:35.950] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:28:37.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, the Honorable Luistro.

**[04:28:40.970] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, considering the remaining time for today's trial, we respectfully move for the continuance of our presentation of witnesses. It therefore follows, Your Honor, that the next witnesses in the person of PNP Police Major [unclear], Attorney Sunshine Fajarda, and Mr. [unclear] of COA will be continued. Tomorrow, September 8, 2026, Your Honor.

**[04:29:14.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, I see the time as well, counsel. Before we adjourn, Chair would like to address some administrative matters.

**[04:29:26.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Pursuant to the order issued by the Court on 26 August 2026, subpoenas directing the submission of documents on September 3 were issued and duly served on the name Banks, Investments, and Insurance Institutions on August 7, 2026. The following submitted the subpoena documents to the Clerk of Court, namely, from insurance and investment companies BDO Life, BDO Securities, FWD Life, Pru Life, BPI-AIA, Allianz PNB, First Union Plans Incorporated, Incorporated submitted a letter dated September 7 to the court attaching a certification that FUPI has been dissolved as of December 31, 2025 and that the named persons or entities maintained no plans or accounts prior to the dissolution on the part of the banks Asia United Bank, EastWest Bank, PNB,

**[04:30:26.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Although PNB submitted a partial compliance and requested for an extension of time, Union Bank also submitted, although partially, and requested for additional time to submit. Pending compliance, Manulife also filed a request for a seven-day extension on September 3, 2026. Chair therefore makes the following rulings. Number one, the extension of time Asked for by Manulife, PNB, and Union Bank are granted but only until Thursday, September 8, 2026, without prejudice to the grant of a final extension upon request should the need still arise. All banks and financial institutions are directed to personally submit their compliance to the clerk of court. It is the court, not the subpoenaed institutions, which shall take charge of distributing copies of the documents to the parties. So ordered. In regard to, rather the clerk of court is also directed to compare the digital and hard copies to verify that the documented list contained in the financial institutions compliance are indeed the same. The clerk of court is hereby directed to furnish the parties not only with the USB of the documents submitted by the banks and insurance companies but also the hard copy. of these documents since we require the banks to submit. We just have to ask for some more time because we are sifting through the documents they submitted to us. It was not separated into three separate copies supposedly for the parties and the court. So we're the ones sifting through to make sure that both parties will have the exact same set that the court has.

**[04:32:23.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay. That would be all for the banks. Hopefully, we will be able to furnish the parties within the week. Would that be satisfactory, Attorney Sheila? Attorney, rather, the Honorable Luistro?

**[04:32:34.590] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We are fine with that, Your Honor.

**[04:32:35.690] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We submit to that, Your Honor.

**[04:32:37.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any other matters you wish to discuss, Honorable Luistro?

**[04:32:39.750] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Yes, Your Honor. We understand that in the order of presentation of Article 2, unexplained wealth was placed at the last presentation by the prosecution. Nevertheless, Your Honor, consistent to the compliance and manifestation filed by the prosecution on June 22, 2026, the prosecution exercises its prerogative to advance the presentation of evidence for unexplained wealth. This means, however, that we are not waiving the presentation of evidence for bribery. The only thing that is being changed, Your Honor, is the order of presentation. We will be proceeding to unexplained wealth first, after which we will end with a presentation of evidence for bribery, Your Honor.

**[04:33:38.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[04:33:39.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the statement of the Honorable Chua, which I saw a couple of days ago, is still being decided by the panel of prosecutors. Whether or not to drop, I think the word was used, bribery.

**[04:33:55.500] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
moment your honor the decision is to maintain both articles in the presentation of evidence only that unexplained wealth will be advanced and it will be followed and we will end on bribery your honor

**[04:34:08.980] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
so

**[04:34:09.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
after you finish this article you will proceed to unexplained wealth

**[04:34:12.720] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
that

**[04:34:13.040] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
is

**[04:34:13.200] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
correct your honor

**[04:34:13.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
attorney Sheila

**[04:34:14.460] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
we

**[04:34:15.100] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
will note that your honor i think it's a prerogative of the prosecution to do whatever it pleases with respect to the order of its presentation your honor But if the counsel is already done with her manifestation, I have just one, Your Honor.

**[04:34:30.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may proceed, counsel.

**[04:34:31.960] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
With respect to Police Major Magay, the intended witness for tomorrow, we would just like to inquire from the prosecution if this witness will identify certain documents and if so, we will now request that we be provided with those documents that have not been marked or may have been marked but In the course of this trial and therefore we would not have hard copies of just so we can abbreviate the proceedings tomorrow and in the interest of time your honor thank you.

**[04:35:07.050] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your honor please we will address the concern of the defense during the presentation of witness police major Magay, Your Honor.

**[04:35:15.370] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
I respect that, Your Honor. In that case, we will also reserve our right to request for additional time to examine the documents, depending on the volume of documents that Police Major Magay will identify tomorrow.

**[04:35:31.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I

**[04:35:31.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
presume, again, you're free to have your own respective strategies, counsels, but I presume that Major Magay will be

**[04:35:44.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
presenting his opinion with respect to the acknowledgement receipts. Would that be correct?

**[04:35:49.810] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We

**[04:35:51.110] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
confirm your honor.

**[04:35:52.710] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Which is a common exhibit of both parties except for a few. Again the court went over them already so except for a few it's all it's actually almost the same attorney Sheila.

**[04:36:01.750] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That's precisely our concern, Your Honor, because if we recall, I also inquired last week if Police Major Magay will also identify the same documents that the NBI would have identified if the NBI representative were to be presented. But I think we did not get any answer, Your Honor. And so we are now at a loss.

**[04:36:28.150] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
whether there would be any other new or additional documents that Police Major [unclear] will identify. Similar to the witness earlier from the Philippine Statistics Authority, we did not have any copies of the request dated June [unclear], 2026, Your Honor, at the time of the presentation.

**[04:36:50.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Luistro, what is the pleasure of, forgive me, I didn't see you, what is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo?

**[04:36:57.070] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Mr. Presiding Officer, I have asked this question before and I would like to ask it again. It seems like we're finishing Article 1 now. We're moving. We're talking about Articles, I think, 3 and 4. The question, Mr. Presiding Officer, and I would like to ask the prosecution, are we going to see... Colonel Lachica and Colonel Nolasco here because I've been reading in the newspaper and news online that the prosecution is saying that they do not need to present Colonel Lachica anymore, Nolasco, when in fact, Mr. Presiding Officer, all of us here, senator-judges, would like to ask questions.

**[04:37:46.300] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
May kinalaman ba ang vice president dito? May basbas ba siya? O binulsa mo lang? Ikaw lang ang tumira ng lahat na yan at wala naman kinalaman yung boss mo. We would like to ask the person himself, yung mga binigyan po ng pera, diba Mr. Presiding Officer? It's common sense. Binigyan kita ng pera, okay, binigay ng disbursing officer doon sa tao, tapos pinapirman niya kung sino-sino.

**[04:38:14.850] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Gusto natin malaman na baka sila lang nag-usap-usap. Wala namang alam doon sa taas.

**[04:38:20.830] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
So we'd like to cross-examine him here. Gusto po natin siya matanong. Ganun din po si Colonel Nolasco. Pupwede ba yun, Mr. Presiding Officer, if the prosecution is not intending anymore or do not have plans to present them here, Lachica and Nolasco, pupwede ba?

**[04:38:39.520] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Ang Korte mismo magpatawag sa kanila para matanong din namin si Lachica at Nolasco na ikaw, lahat kayong dalawa ay tinuturo na lahat ng ito.

**[04:38:49.840] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Gusto nating malaman, Mr. Presiding Officer, ano ba talaga? What's the deal?

**[04:38:55.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Luistro, can you limit your answer to simply confirming the news article reports? that indicate that both Lachica and Nolasco will no longer be called by the prosecution. Or was that simply a decision arrived at that's good for that day and may still change until you rest?

**[04:39:17.940] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Your Honor, please. With all due respect to the senator-judges, but it is our humble submission that the allegation of misuse and misappropriation of confidential funds have been satisfied already by the testimony of the witnesses presented, Your Honor.

**[04:39:36.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So

**[04:39:37.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you won't present them anymore?

**[04:39:38.430] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
That's your intention? That is correct, Your

**[04:39:39.690] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
Honor.

**[04:39:39.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Now to answer the Honorable Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. We do not know yet if the defense will call Lachica and Nolasco because I believe they are listed too as a common witness supposedly by both parties in the pretrial order. So there may still be a chance. But should that not happen, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo, nothing prevents the court from calling a witness.

**[04:40:07.020] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Not only as amicus curiae but also as a witness or even recalling a witness for that matter should the court decide at the proper time to do so but that would come after if at all the presentation of the evidence-in-chief of both parties. We allow them as much as possible to do it first and when we feel that there is a need then we can discuss it and put it to a vote if necessary.

**[04:40:32.700] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
That is before we go to the unexplained wealth and bribery articles. Is that correct, Mr. Presiding Officer?

**[04:40:40.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
No, that would be before we arrive at a decision, Senator-Judge Tulfo, if you feel like it's necessary for us to arrive at a decision on a specific article because that won't be part of the presentation really of the evidence of either party. In fact, should we decide to call either Lachica or Nolasco? He will not be examined by either of the parties who didn't call him.

**[04:41:06.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
He

**[04:41:06.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
will only answer to the queries of senator-judges because he is a witness called by the court and not by the parties.

**[04:41:13.730] Sen. Erwin Tulfo**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer.

**[04:41:15.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you, Senator-Judge Tulfo. Again, my apologies, Honorable Luistro. You were saying?

**[04:41:21.090] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We were just to put on record, Your Honor, that the position of the prosecution not to present the security officers is anchored on the prerogative Or judgment, the right of the prosecution to decide on the witnesses and evidence to be presented, including The manner by which they will be presented, Your Honor.

**[04:41:43.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And that right is confirmed by the Presiding Officer. You're well within your rights, Honorable Lead Prosecutor. Any other matters? Yes, Attorney Sheila.

**[04:41:51.080] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor, I believe that I have a pending request before the manifestation of the Honorable Senator.

**[04:41:57.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, before I recognize Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. Honorable Luistro, does the PNP... [unclear] document section or office have a separate report or finding from that of the NBI.

**[04:42:16.640] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
I'm afraid, Your Honor, that I cannot address that question right now.

**[04:42:21.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If

**[04:42:23.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
there is, if you can't address it right now, if there is, I hope you will find out by the time you present the witness tomorrow so that you can furnish opposing counsel with a copy so that we won't need to give them time. to prepare for their cross because should they ask for time to prepare for their cross, should the documents be voluminous, the court will grant the respondent that time. So if you can afford them the opportunity to inspect the documents before, it would be appreciated by the court because it will save on the court's time.

**[04:42:58.060] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
We submit to that, Your Honor.

**[04:42:59.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank

**[04:43:00.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you. Any other points,

**[04:43:02.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsels?

**[04:43:02.540] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We understand that, Your Honor. We just reserve for the record. Any objection that we might need to make at the time of the presentation of Police Major [unclear]?

**[04:43:15.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And if at all, we will afford you the time, Attorney Sheila, that you need to cross-examine should the documents be not made available to you in due course and with enough time to prepare for [unclear].

**[04:43:26.300] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank

**[04:43:26.440] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
you, Your Honor.

**[04:43:27.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honorable Luistro, that would be all?

**[04:43:29.440] Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro**  
That would be all, Your Honor.

**[04:43:31.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
There being no other further matters to be taken up, Trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, September 8th at 10 a.m. The session will be called at 3 p.m.