1 00:05:52,110 --> 00:05:52,370 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: This 2 00:05:52,370 --> 00:05:53,010 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: is directed to 3 00:05:53,010 --> 00:05:53,730 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: make a proclamation. 4 00:05:55,300 --> 00:06:06,000 Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman-Duterte. 5 00:06:06,820 --> 00:06:14,700 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman-Duterte is hereby called to order. Let us rise for a minute of silent prayer. 6 00:06:32,670 --> 00:06:33,230 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Amen. 7 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:37,880 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The clerk of court will now call the roll. 8 00:06:41,580 --> 00:07:22,160 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: senator-judge, Cayetano-Alan, senator-judge, Cayetano-Pia, senator-judge, De La Rosa, senator-judge, Ejercito, senator-judge, Estrada, senator-judge, Goh, senator-judge, Hontiveros, senator-judge, Lacson, senator-judge, Lapid, senator-judge, Legarda, senator-judge, Marcoleta, senator-judge, Marcos, senator-judge, Padilla, senator-judge, Pangilinan, senator-judge, Soto III, senator-judge, Tulfo Erwin, senator-judge, Tulfo Raffy. senator-judge Villanueva, senator-judge Villar-Camil, senator-judge Villar-Marc, senator-judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, senator-judge Escudero, the Senate President, senator-judge Gatchalian. 9 00:07:22,300 --> 00:07:37,000 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With 15 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court. 10 00:07:54,650 --> 00:08:12,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If there are not, thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the August 24, 2026 Journal of the Senate, Citizens and Impeachment Court, and shall consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will kindly call the case before the Impeachment Court. 11 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:18,350 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026, in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President, Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 12 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:22,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances of the parties. 13 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:26,630 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Same appearance for the prosecution, Your Honors. We're ready. 14 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:30,470 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearance for the respondent accused. 15 00:08:33,220 --> 00:08:57,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. We are in receipt. Before we proceed to our next witness, I believe it's going to be Mr. Ortoño. We are in receipt of a request for stipulation with respect to certain circumstances and documents from the prosecution. Is that correct? Do you confirm, Honorable Choa? 16 00:08:59,530 --> 00:09:00,290 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Yes, Your Honor. 17 00:09:00,690 --> 00:09:26,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We got a copy of the one The lead counsel for respondent already responded to the request for stipulation for Eduardo Fajarda yesterday, I believe, and only stipulated to the first two points. Now this one for Ortoño, we got it only last night. May I ask the counsel for respondent when you got the request for stipulation? We 18 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:29,000 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: also received this just last night, Your Honor, by email. 19 00:09:29,660 --> 00:09:33,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Is there an equal request for stipulation with respect to documents? 20 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:56,730 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: I believe, Your Honor, that on the third page of this new request for stipulation with respect to Mr. Lemuel Ortoño, there are certain documents that the prosecution requests for stipulation. But this will be addressed during the presentation and the cross-examination of the witness, Your Honor. 21 00:09:57,290 --> 00:10:04,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So can you already comment on the request for stipulation with respect to Ortoño, Attorney Sheila? 22 00:10:05,150 --> 00:10:17,240 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We can, Your Honor. We can only stipulate on items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7. 23 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:22,900 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That's it, Your Honor. 24 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. 25 00:10:27,140 --> 00:10:52,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hold on, Honorable Chua. In regard to the documents, Attorney Sheila, some of these, if not all, I haven't checked actually individually because this is a different list from the list of documents that I have that Ortonio may identify based on our own study of the pretrial. Order and markings. How about the documents, Attorney? 26 00:10:52,280 --> 00:11:29,620 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: That's our concern, Your Honor, since we only received this last night and this is inconsistent also with the order of this court that any request for stipulation must be provided to the other party at least one day before the hearing, Your Honor. And therefore, we would prefer to hear first the comment of the prosecution on this witness and we will respond accordingly afterwards, Your Honor. And also, Your Honor, I will ask later on at the start of the presentation of the witness for another counsel to be acknowledged and recognized. At 27 00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:29,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the appropriate 28 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:30,800 Rep. Joel R. Chua: time, Attorney Sison. 29 00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:31,420 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor. 30 00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:37,940 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Yes, Honorable Chua. Can I now, Your Honor, turn over to the counsel for the prosecution, Attorney May Divina Gracia? 31 00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:40,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May 32 00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:43,030 Rep. Joel R. Chua: Divina Gracia, Your Honor. 33 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:45,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Will be the one handling. Yes, Your Honor. 34 00:11:47,730 --> 00:11:55,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We're not yet there, counsel. I'm still at the point of trying to abbreviate the proceedings, at least with respect to the documents. 35 00:11:57,810 --> 00:13:05,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And to give a shot at the counsel for respondents looking at the documents, how many are common documents or common exhibits? Because to the mind of the presiding officer, counsels, if it is a common exhibit, meaning marked by both parties separately, Unless there is a proof or allegation of fraud and or probable mistake or absence of regularity, then it would have to be proven through the witness. However, absent that, the court can take it as already being authentic and its due execution having been established without need of proof through the identification of a witness. If there is that chance, the court is willing to give the parties a few minutes while the court is discussing its ruling with respect to the point raised by Attorney Sheila last August 12, which will take roughly about 20 to 25 minutes. Would that be enough time, Attorney Sheila, for you to go over the documents? 36 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:05,980 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: I think, Your Honor, 37 00:13:05,980 --> 00:13:34,850 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: we'll just need around five minutes. We're amenable to some stipulation under item number 25, except for item number 25B. and V, Beta and Victor, Your Honor, because these are not common exhibits. But with the rest of the items under number 25, we probably will just be needing five minutes to see the prosecution's documents. 38 00:13:36,390 --> 00:13:40,130 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: return to this court with a response to the request for stipulation. Five 39 00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:48,750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: minutes? If it's five minutes, the court will defer its ruling on your August 12th manifestation and just simply give you five minutes before we call Ortoño. Thank you, Your 40 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:48,930 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Honor. 41 00:13:49,230 --> 00:13:51,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, five minutes. Court declares a brief recess 42 00:13:51,850 --> 00:14:00,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: in order for the parties to be able to stipulate on the documents they will be presenting to the witness Ortoño to save on the court's 43 00:14:00,910 --> 00:14:02,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: time. Trial is in recess. 44 00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:03,390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Trial 45 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is resumed. 46 00:19:56,850 --> 00:20:08,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May we hear from the counsel for the respondent with respect to the proposed stipulations on item number 25 in regard to the documents? 47 00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:20,800 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We can stipulate on item number 25, Your Honor, and on the documents listed under that paragraph from A to V, Your Honor. 48 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:22,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: From Alpha to Victory? 49 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:24,880 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Yes, Your Honor, subject to comment on the eventual offer. 50 00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:35,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you very much, counsel. Thank you for helping the court in abbreviating the proceedings. Now, Honorable Chua, who again will be the one to present the witness, Ortonio? 51 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:41,020 Rep. Joel R. Chua: The counsel for the prosecution, Attorney May Divina Gracia. 52 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney May Divina Gracia, you are recognized, ma'am. 53 00:20:47,540 --> 00:20:48,260 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor. 54 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney Sheila, 55 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:51,420 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: on the part of the 56 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:51,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: respondents. 57 00:20:52,300 --> 00:21:00,240 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: May I also ask that Attorney Christine Ferrer be recognized as counsel for the defense today, Your Honor, for 58 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:02,600 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: this witness. 59 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ferrer is 60 00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:09,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: recognized. Thank you, 61 00:21:09,420 --> 00:21:09,660 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor. 62 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Good 63 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:12,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: morning, Your 64 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honors. Is it correct to address you, Attorney May? 65 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:16,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 66 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So it'll be Attorney May and Attorney Christine. 67 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 68 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Call your witness, Attorney May. 69 00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:32,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we would like to call to the witness stand our sixth witness in the person of Mr. Lemuel G. Ortonio. 70 00:21:32,910 --> 00:21:42,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is directed through the OSAA to kindly situate Mr. Ortonio at the witness stand. 71 00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:07,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to the witness. 72 00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:23,180 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Mr. Ortonio, please raise your right hand. You, Lemuel G. Ortonio, do swear that the evidence you shall give In the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God. 73 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:35,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly place on the record because it was inaudible that the witness responded in the affirmative by saying yes. 74 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney May, your witness for direct examination, kindly make the offer. 75 00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:50,690 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor, but before we proceed to our offer, Your Honor, we would like to Just to read for the record, the matters that were already stipulated, Your Honor, for avoidance of doubt. 76 00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:52,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so, counsel. You may proceed. 77 00:22:53,070 --> 00:23:10,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, first, that the witness, Mr. Lemuel G. Ortoño, is the Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff of the Office of the Vice President. Second, he holds the position of Assistant Secretary at salary grade 29. 78 00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:17,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Third, his appointment is coterminous with the term of the Vice President. 79 00:23:20,020 --> 00:23:20,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And fourth, 80 00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:44,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: his position is one of trust and confidence. May the defense kindly confirm if those are all the matters that you're willing to stipulate on, as well as, sorry, Your Honor, they're also stipulating on the authenticity and the genuine execution of the documents listed in paragraph 25 of the request for stipulation. 81 00:23:46,260 --> 00:23:47,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? 82 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,860 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor, subject to cross-examination. 83 00:23:51,270 --> 00:23:55,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Duly noted. Kindly proceed with your offer, Attorney May. 84 00:23:55,230 --> 00:24:13,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honors, we are offering the testimony of Mr. Lembel G. Ortoño to qualify him as a hostile witness and to prove the following. Number one, the confidential funds answered to no legitimate confidential purpose. 85 00:24:16,430 --> 00:27:25,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The amount was requested before the supporting plan was produced and the 2023 plan just repeated the operative language of the 2022 plan. Nauna ang 250 million, sumunod ang plano, matapos itong hingin ng DBM. Hindi plano ang nagtakda ng halaga. Ang halaga ang nauna, saka hinabol ang plano. Number two, the respondent's handprints are in every document that mattered. Mula request hanggang liquidation, Nasa mahalagang dokumento ang kanyang otoridad at pag-apruba. Number three, the reports were written to fit the rules, not the facts. Apat na ulat, iisang template. Mga halagang hindi nagbabago at laging eksaktong 125 million. Not a peso more, not a centavo less. Walang natira, Walang sinaulit. Number four. Five days after COWA questioned the medical and food aid item, the line disappeared while the report still totaled exactly 125 million. Quinestron ng Commission on Audit ang medical and food aid na may halagang 40 million, 42 million, at 40 million sa tatlong unang accomplishment reports. Makalipas ang limang araw, wala na ito sa huling accomplishment report. Pero 125 million pa rin ang kabuuhan ng halaga. Number five. In two years, not one area, not one operation was ever named. Daang-daang area ang iniulat. 500 million ang ginastos. Ngunit wala ni isang lugar, ni isang operasyon. ni isang petsa ang pinangalanan. Number six, the liquidation was late, irregular, and backdated. Sampung buwan huli ang mga resibo. Mahigit isang daan ang may petsang isang taon pagkatapos ng diumanoy bayaran. Number seven, the certifications vouched for nothing and were signed by the man who received the money. Walang untoward incident. Iyan lamang ang pinatutunayan. Walang halaga, walang pangalan, walang lugar at walang petsa. At ang pumirma, ang mismong tumanggap ng pera. Number eight. The 500 million bought protection the Vice President already had. And against threats, the AFP and the PNP were already paid billions to watch. 86 00:27:27,120 --> 00:30:09,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 473 sundalo at polis na ang nagbabantay sa kanya. Sahod ng Republika. Mula sa ibang pondo. Walang pangalawang Pangulo sa kasaysayan ang nagkaroon ng ganito. At ang mga bantang tinutukoy sa mga ulat, ang NPA at mga teroristang grupo. Sakop na ng intelligence funds ng AFP at PNP. Bayad na ang proteksyon. Bayad na ang pagbabantay bago pa ang kahit isang piso ng confidential funds. Number nine, the justification for the confidential funds shifted with every finding. Sa DBM, safe implementation ng good governance programs, official engagements, and functional representation ng pangalawang Pangulo. Sa mga plano, confidence building. for good governance programs. At pagsapit ng 2023, socio-economic program delivery. Sa mga certifications, surveillance and information gathering to prevent and toward incidents from transpiring. Sa protective intelligence operations reports for intelligence gathering naman. Sa mga sagot sa audit observation memoranda at notices or at notice of suspension. for surveillance activities to determine where best to implement the OVP's programs. Anim na bersyon, iisang pondo. Number 10. The officials knew, answered nothing. The man who says he knew nothing, answered everything. Lahat ng sagot sa COA, pirma ng kistigong ito na ang sabi wala siyang personal na kaalaman. Ang mga tunay na nakakaalam, respondent vice president, special disbursing officer, at ang Colonel, wala ni isang sumagot. Number 11, the explanations for the confidential funds are a sham. And the failure to account the funds gives rise to the presumption of misappropriation. Pabago-bago ang paliwanag, walang detalye, walang dokumentong sumusuporta, pagtatakip, hindi pagpapaliwanag. At hanggang ngayon, hindi na-account ang 500 million ng bayan. Sa ganitong kabiguan, At atas na mismo ang nagsasalita, prima facie, na ipinalalagay na ang pondo ay ginamit para sa sariling kapakanan. That would be all for your 87 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:09,920 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. 88 00:30:10,660 --> 00:30:11,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment, Attorney Christine? 89 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:48,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. We note that the 11 items that were mentioned by the prosecution are all conclusions of fact and law, Your Honor. And actually, they are... Mayor's speculations and conjectures, Your Honor, not being proven before this honorable court and they are all theories and with all due respect, soundbites, Your Honor. Nevertheless, we will cross-examine the witness to verify the allegations or to disprove the allegations of the prosecution. 90 00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:54,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: They may be statements of fact or law, counsel, but that's what they seek to prove. 91 00:30:57,230 --> 00:31:07,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Through this witness, hopefully, by declaring him as a hostile witness in due time. Duly noted, comment of the counsel for responders noted, you may proceed with your direct examination, Attorney May. 92 00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:25,910 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, before I proceed, we would just like to request for a continuing authority for our assisting counsel, Attorney Oliver Sikaidot, to approach the witness and... present and confront him with the necessary and relevant documents whenever we mention those documents. 93 00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:31,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Granted, as well as who would be the counterpart assisting counsel from the respondent, Attorney Christine? 94 00:31:31,410 --> 00:31:33,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor, Attorney David Gola. 95 00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:42,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Granted, insofar as both parties are concerned in regard to their respective assisting counsels who may approach the witness at any time during the direct and cross. 96 00:31:42,430 --> 00:31:57,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And also, Your Honor, we request a similar continuing authority. for us to flash on the screen the relevant documents when mentioned for the appreciation of this honorable court and of everyone, Your Honor. 97 00:31:57,470 --> 00:32:06,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Granted likewise, including a similar grant with counsel for respondent should she decide to do so as well during her cross. 98 00:32:06,830 --> 00:32:07,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. 99 00:32:08,850 --> 00:32:09,410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 100 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:09,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: may proceed, 101 00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:11,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel, when you're ready. 102 00:32:11,290 --> 00:32:13,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. Good morning, Mr. Antonio. 103 00:32:13,650 --> 00:32:15,650 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Good morning, Ma'am Maimbunta. Good morning. 104 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:27,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, naiintindihan ko po na ikaw ngayon ay nagsisilbing Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff sa Office of the Vice President. Tama po ba? 105 00:32:27,250 --> 00:32:28,190 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. 106 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:36,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kailan naman po kayo nagsimulang manungkulan bilang Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff sa Office of the Vice President? 107 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:42,580 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I started working as the Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff last July 2022. 108 00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:47,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, Mr. Antonio, at whose pleasure do you serve those positions? 109 00:32:48,810 --> 00:32:53,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I report directly to the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte. 110 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:02,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And prior to becoming Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff, saan naman po kayo nagtatrabaho kung meron man? 111 00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:11,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I used to work with the City Government of Davao as the head of the Human Resource Management Office. 112 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:20,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Time po na yon na nagsilbi kayo ng head ng Human Resource Management. Sino naman po ang mayor ng panaw ngayon? 113 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The mayor at the time is the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte. 114 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:33,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And when did you serve as such? As head of the Human Resource Department of the City Government of Davao City? 115 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I started working as the head of the Human Resource Management Office in 2018. 116 00:33:42,190 --> 00:33:43,250 Lemuel G. Ortoño: starting 2018. 117 00:33:43,770 --> 00:33:51,810 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And, kanina naman po kayo nagre-report nung nanulungkulan kayo bilang head of the resource, human resource department? 118 00:33:52,310 --> 00:34:02,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As the head of the human resource, as the department head, I report directly to the mayor and as well have reportorial duties to the city administrator. 119 00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:12,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Prior to that, Mr. Ortonio, ano naman po ang inyong naging katungkulan kung meron man? City Government of Davao City. 120 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:32,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Prior to being the Human Resource Head, I also headed the Davao City Investment Promotion Center. That's from 2016 all the way to 2018 as well. And then in 2010 to 2013, I served as the Chief of Staff of the Office of the Mayor. 121 00:34:35,110 --> 00:34:40,750 Lemuel G. Ortoño: 2008 until 2010, I served as the chief of staff under the office of the vice mayor. 122 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:53,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Isa-isa yun po natin. Noong nanungkulan kayo bilang head ng Davao City Investment and Promotion Center, sino naman po ang nanungkulan bilang mayor ng Davao City at that time? 123 00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:56,380 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The mayor at the time is Vice President Sara Duterte. 124 00:34:57,060 --> 00:35:05,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Noong time naman po nanungkulan kayo bilang chief of staff, sino naman po ang nanungkulan? bilang Mayor at the time. 125 00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:07,970 Lemuel G. Ortoño: It's the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte. 126 00:35:08,130 --> 00:35:21,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At huli, noong nanungkulan kayo noong 2008 onwards, sino naman po ang nanungkulan? Or ano, sino naman po ang nanungkulan bilang Vice Mayor at the time? 127 00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:24,770 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The Vice Mayor at the time is Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte. 128 00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:32,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, prior to 2008, saan kayo nanungkulan o nagtatrabaho kung meron na? 129 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:41,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Prior to 2008, I worked with a government-owned and controlled corporation and I also worked at a local chamber of commerce. 130 00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:50,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Maari niyo pong banggitin sa korte na ito kung saan po iyon, yung mga kumpanyang iyon? 131 00:35:50,840 --> 00:36:02,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: My first working experience was with the Pag-ibig Fund. That was four years and then I worked around four or about four to six months with the Davao City Chamber of Commerce. 132 00:36:02,820 --> 00:36:03,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you. 133 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:19,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, in October 2024, ano naman po ang mga compulsory processes, if any, na natanggap ninyo mula sa House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability? 134 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:29,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I was invited to appear before the committee hearings for the Committee on Good Governance. At 135 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa ano-anong pecha naman po kayo inimbitahang mag-appear? 136 00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:44,850 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As to the exact dates, ma'am, I cannot remember anymore the exact dates. However, there were several invitations that were extended to me. 137 00:36:45,460 --> 00:36:47,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Several invitations or several hearings? 138 00:36:48,220 --> 00:36:48,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's 139 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:55,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: correct. Ano naman po ang naging tugon ninyo dun sa mga ibat-ibang imbitasyon na yun? 140 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,320 Lemuel G. Ortoño: One of the reasons there was that it's a mere invitation. 141 00:37:01,740 --> 00:37:14,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm sorry, Mr. Antonio, I have to cut you. Please just be responsive so as not to waste this honorable court's time. The question is merely, what was your response to those invitations for you to appear? You mentioned several. 142 00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:15,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: What 143 00:37:15,820 --> 00:37:16,980 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: was your response? The 144 00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:20,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: response was, I will not attend the hearings. 145 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:30,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, so that was your response. What, if any, judicial remedy did you seek? against those invitations. 146 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:31,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Did 147 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you ask for 148 00:37:36,820 --> 00:37:45,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: injunctive relief against the compulsion or the invitation for you to attend the hearings mentioned in those invitations? 149 00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:49,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The reason, ma'am, was that it's a mere 150 00:37:49,220 --> 00:38:08,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: invitation. Again, Mr. Antonio, I'm sorry, I don't want to be difficult, but again, let me just remind you to please be just responsive to the question. The question is simply, What judicial relief, if any, did you apply for in response to those invitations? 151 00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:10,630 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If I can remember, ma'am, none, ma'am. 152 00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:19,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. And what was the subject matter of those hearings where you were invited, if you know? 153 00:38:19,580 --> 00:38:21,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: It's regarding the confidential funds. 154 00:38:35,830 --> 00:38:53,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Now, Mr. Antonio, what is your relation with Mr. Ernesto Nemenzo? or Tonio Jr., who is the President and a member of the Board of Directors of PNX-Yudena Insurance Brokers, Inc. Your Honor. 155 00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:56,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? 156 00:38:56,790 --> 00:39:15,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Relevance, Your Honor. It is very much relevant, Your Honor, because this would prove that this witness and the respondent move in the same social circle. And this witness can practically become a social pariah if he speaks unfavorably. of the respondent. 157 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:19,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor, short leash, counsel, go to your point. Objection is overruled. 158 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:38,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, Mr. Ortonio, just to repeat the question, what is your relation with Mr. Ernesto Nemenzo Ortonio, Jr., who is the President and a member of the Board of Directors of PNX Udena Insurance Brokers, Inc.? He 159 00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:38,680 Lemuel G. Ortoño: is my father. 160 00:39:44,290 --> 00:39:53,980 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ano naman po ang relasyon ng PNX Udena Insurance Brokers? Corporation, sa Udena Management and Resources Corporation, 161 00:39:55,870 --> 00:40:03,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: which forms part of the Udena Group founded and controlled by Mr. Dennis Avery. Your Honor, please. 162 00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:05,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, 163 00:40:05,890 --> 00:40:12,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: relevance, Your Honor, to the confidential funds. And she's on shortage. Attorney May, is this 164 00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:17,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: part of trying to qualify Mr. Ortonia as a hostile witness? 165 00:40:18,010 --> 00:40:24,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. This will establish This witness has an adverse interest, Your Honor, in this case. 166 00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:52,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With your indulgence, as well as with the permission of counsels for the parties, I think it has been established that Mr. Ortonio serves at the pleasure of the Vice President, has been working for her for quite some time, and is serving up to now. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Ortonio? That's correct, Your Honor. And that if the Vice President is impeached and therefore removed from office, Pati kayo matatanggal po diba dahil coterminous kayo? 167 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,600 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, Your Honor. 168 00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:03,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And that as far as we know until today, you are still working with the Office of the Vice President and serving under that capacity, coterminous? 169 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:04,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct, Your Honor. 170 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:28,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To abbreviate the proceedings, the Court declares Mr. Antonio as a hostile witness based on his adverse interests vis-a-vis the respondent and the prosecution. and that therefore, Counsel-Attorney May can ask leading questions but again, pursuant to the rules, may not ask misleading questions. You may proceed, ma'am, accordingly. 171 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:53,630 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Ortonio, I am showing you a video, a video footage of the hearing of the CGGPA on November 25, 2024. May I request Your Honor our assisting counsel who is stationed at the technical booth to play the said video footage. 172 00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:07,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Continuing authority has been granted to counsels. You may proceed accordingly, counsel. 173 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:08,840 Unknown speaker: Office 174 00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:31,920 Unknown speaker: of the Vice President, Mr. Lemuel G. Ortoño, Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff, Ms. Winnie G. Diego, Chief of Public Assistance. Thank you. 175 00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:40,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Ortoño. Ano ang relasyon mo sa Lemuel G. Ortoño na nabanggit sa video na aming pinakita? 176 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:42,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's me po, ma'am. 177 00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:56,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ano naman, at tama ba, kinukumpirma mo ba na ang event na recorded sa video footage na yan ay ang hearing ng CGGPA noong November 25, 2024? 178 00:42:57,610 --> 00:42:58,650 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. 179 00:42:59,140 --> 00:43:10,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At Mr. Ortonio, maaalala mo ba na sa hearing na yan, sinabi mo, and I quote, You provide overall supervision for the internal affairs of the Office of the Vice President. 180 00:43:11,370 --> 00:43:12,450 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. 181 00:43:14,570 --> 00:43:29,110 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pinapatutuhanan mo rin ba na kasama ng supervision na yan ang supervision sa Administrative and Financial Services Office at Strategy Management Office ng Office of the Vice President? 182 00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:30,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. 183 00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:47,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, Mr. Antonio, Tama bang sabihin ng Administrative and Financial Services Office, ito ang opisina sa Office of the Vice President na in charge sa pangkalahatang budget ng OVP. 184 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:48,660 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, Pa. 185 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kasama dito ang budget preparation. 186 00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:52,120 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 187 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:55,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Budget disbursement, accounting, at liquidation. 188 00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:56,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 189 00:43:57,470 --> 00:44:14,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And since you exercised supervision over this office, Sa pangkalahatan, tama bang sabihin, generally, walang pondo ng OVP ang hinihiling, nilalabas, ginagastos, o iniliquidate na wala sa inyong kaalaman at supervision? Tama ba? 190 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Generally, Mr. Ortoche. 191 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:18,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Generally, yes. 192 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:39,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, ang Strategy Management Office naman, eto ang tanggapan ng OVP na nangangasiwa sa strategic planning, management, monitoring, evaluation. Organizational Development at iba pang kaugnayan ng tungkuling pamamahala ng UVP. Tama ba? 193 00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:40,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 194 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:49,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So kasama dito ang pagbuo at pagsubaybay sa mga programa, proyekto at aktividad ng UVP. Tama ba? 195 00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:50,140 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 196 00:44:51,940 --> 00:45:00,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So ngayon, dahil sa iyong pag-amin, tama rin bang sabihin na bawat programa ng UVP ay dumadaan sa SMO? 197 00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:03,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: For all the activities. Yes. 198 00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:13,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At dahil kayo ang nagsusuperbisa sa SMO, kayo rin ang nagsusuperbisa sa mga programa, proyekto, at aktibidad nito. Tama ba? 199 00:45:13,620 --> 00:45:15,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: General supervision po. 200 00:45:16,580 --> 00:45:33,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, or sa madaling salita, bawat programa ng OVP ay dumadaan sa inyong supervision ng dalawang beses. Una, kapag ito ay pinaplano ng SMO, at pangalawa, kapag binabayaran nito ng AFSO. Tama ba? 201 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:33,860 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes po. 202 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:43,140 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At tama rin bang sabihin na ang mga direktor ng dalawang opisinang ito ay naguulat din sa iyo? Tama ba? 203 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:44,160 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. 204 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:58,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Also, tama rin bang sabihin na ang Vice President mismo ang nagtalaga sa inyo ng supervision over these two offices? 205 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,580 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct as part of the organizational structure. At 206 00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:17,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: tama rin bang sabihin na kaugnay ng inyong supervision? Sa SMO at FSO, ang anumang direktibang natatanggap ninyo ay sa huli nagbumula sa Vice President. 207 00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:19,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. At 208 00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:30,750 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: tama rin ba na sa pagganap ng inyong mga tungkulin, sa huli kayo ay nasasaklawan ng mga direksyon at instruksyon ng Vice President? 209 00:46:32,310 --> 00:46:33,150 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 210 00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:44,510 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, the official acts that you perform in the discharge of those responsibilities are done pursuant to the authority vested in you by the Vice President. 211 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:45,940 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 212 00:46:47,170 --> 00:46:54,630 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, pumunta naman tayo ngayon, Mr. Antonio, sa sulat kung saan nagsimula ang lahat. 213 00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:55,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 214 00:46:57,070 --> 00:47:08,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, Mr. Antonio, you assumed your position you mentioned earlier as Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff noon lamang July 1, 2022. Tama ba? 215 00:47:08,690 --> 00:47:09,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's 216 00:47:09,090 --> 00:47:10,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: correct. So, that was mid-year? 217 00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:11,350 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 218 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:24,110 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And? You will confirm na pag-assume mo ng inyong posisyon around that time, walang confidential fund ang office of the Vice President. Tama ba? 219 00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:25,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 220 00:47:28,850 --> 00:47:40,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Which means na yung successor ni Vice President Sara Duterte na si Vice President Lenny G. Robredo, walang confidential funds. Your Honor, please. 221 00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:42,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Attorney General. 222 00:47:42,990 --> 00:47:45,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: No basis, Your Honor, and conclusion of facts. 223 00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:46,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly clarify, 224 00:48:08,190 --> 00:48:14,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Lenny Robredo, Your Honor, Lenny Robredo, she did not have confidential funds, Your 225 00:48:14,590 --> 00:48:14,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. 226 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:17,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel? 227 00:48:17,740 --> 00:48:20,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Incompetent. He's not a staff of Lenny Robredo. 228 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:20,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he 229 00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:26,470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: knows. If he knows. If you know, Mr. Antonio, you may answer. If you don't, you may answer so as well. 230 00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:32,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the records that we have, there's no record of confidential funds. 231 00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:50,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ito ang dahilan kung bakit humiling ng confidential funds ang OVP sa DBM. Tama ba? Noong 2022. Dahil wala kayong dinatnaan ng confidential funds. Nang pagupo mo, kasama ng pagupo ng Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba? 232 00:48:50,830 --> 00:48:51,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. 233 00:48:52,930 --> 00:48:55,990 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And this request for confidential funds, 234 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:02,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ipinaabot ito sa DBM sa pamamagitan ng isang sulat. Tama ba? 235 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Letter request. Yes, 236 00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:13,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: letter request. Ngayon, I'm showing you Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A dated August 22, 2022. 237 00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:21,130 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ito ang nabanggit mong Letter Request for Confidential Funds in 2022. Tama ba, Mr. Antonio? 238 00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:28,210 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, correct. 239 00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:47,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa huling pahina nitong sulat na ito, there appears a signature above the printed name, Sara Z. Duterte. You will confirm that this is the signature of the Vice President. 240 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I can confirm that this is the signature of the Vice President. 241 00:49:53,670 --> 00:50:10,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you're familiar with her signature, familiar ka sa signature niya, dahil Sa panunungkulan mo over almost two decades with her or under her, nakikita mo siyang kumirma ng mga dokumento at nakikita mo rin ang kanyang pirma sa iba't ibang dokumento. Tama ba? 242 00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:11,540 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 243 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:24,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And on the basis of this letter bearing her signature, tama bang sabihin ng desisyon na mag-request ng confidential funds? It was the decision of the Vice President. Tama ba? 244 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,460 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 245 00:50:30,610 --> 00:50:32,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And throughout these proceedings, 246 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:42,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: A certain name has been repeatedly mentioned, paulit-ulit na nabanggit, si Colonel La Chica. Kilala niyo siya, tama? 247 00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:44,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I know him. He's the 248 00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:44,790 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: group 249 00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:46,350 Lemuel G. Ortoño: commander for BPSPG. 250 00:50:46,950 --> 00:51:02,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You mentioned group commander of the SPG, but you will confirm, Mr. Ortonio, kukumpirmahin niyo, na noong Augusto 22, 2022, hindi pa na itatalaga si Colonel La Chica bilang security officer ng OVP, tama ba? 251 00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:05,940 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. He started September. 252 00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:11,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, in fact, he started only on September 1, 2022. Tama ba? 253 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on documents. Okay. 254 00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:23,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let us now go to the September 16, 2022 letter. 255 00:51:26,220 --> 00:51:40,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yan ang nagpapatunay, Mr. Antonio, na si Mr. Lachica or si Colonel Lachica ay noon lamang September 16 itinalaga. bilang commander ng VPSPG. Tama ba? 256 00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:47,010 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's... Wait, I... Hindi masyado clear po. 257 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:55,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, may we request our assisting counsel in the tech booth to kindly enlarge... 258 00:51:57,090 --> 00:52:00,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Granted, so instructed... 259 00:52:00,370 --> 00:52:02,510 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ...copies of the documents being flashed on the screen. 260 00:52:09,730 --> 00:52:11,570 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sir, what's the question again, ma'am? 261 00:52:13,420 --> 00:52:27,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Itong, sa letter na ito, pinapatutuhanan ito... na si Col. Chica ay in-appoint lamang or itinalaga lamang bilang commander ng VPSPG noon lamang September 16, 2022. Tama ba? 262 00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:37,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. For, ma'am, I think the memorandum is the designation of Col. Chica as security officer. 263 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:39,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: As 264 00:52:39,260 --> 00:52:42,460 Lemuel G. Ortoño: security officer based on the document. Yes. 265 00:52:42,720 --> 00:53:08,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, balik tayo dun sa letter dated August 22, 2022. Dito sa letter na to, you will confirm that the OVP requested four items. One, augmentation of financial assistance and subsidy. Two, augmentation of special duty allowance. Three, additional 192 coterminus and contractual positions. And four, confidential funds. Tama ba? 266 00:53:10,060 --> 00:53:12,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Correct for the four items. And 267 00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:26,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you will also confirm that at the time this document was sent to the DBM, Noong ihinihanda ang liham na ito at pinadala sa DBM, naiplano na ng OVP ang mga aktibitad nito para sa nalalabing bahagi ng 2022. Tama ba? 268 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:27,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 269 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa 270 00:53:29,850 --> 00:53:44,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: katunayan, para sa unang tatlong kahilingan, nakapagbigay na ang OVP ng basihan ng mga hiling na halaga. Nakalagay dito ang computation kung paano nakuha ang halagang hinihiling. Tama ba? 271 00:53:44,530 --> 00:53:45,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 272 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:57,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The first three requests, the augmentation of financial assistance and subsidy, augmentation of special duty allowance, and additional 192 coterminous and contractual positions. 273 00:54:01,530 --> 00:54:15,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And dahil rin na-plot out niya na yung mga activities, programs, and plans ng OVP ng time na yan, nakapaglakip na rin kayo ng supporting documents for the first three requests. Tama ba? 274 00:54:15,310 --> 00:54:16,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 275 00:54:16,090 --> 00:54:20,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pati yung projections. mga relevant projections for these three requests. 276 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:21,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 277 00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:34,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But, Mr. Ortonio, kinukumpirma mo rin na for the OVP's request for confidential funds, in this letter, walang computation na binigay. Tama ba? 278 00:54:36,730 --> 00:54:44,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let's limit the answer to the letter. In that letter, no computation was provided. Tama ba? 279 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,020 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. There 280 00:54:46,020 --> 00:54:49,140 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: was also no projection provided in the same letter. Tama ba? 281 00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:50,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 282 00:54:50,580 --> 00:54:51,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And 283 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: also, there was no physical and financial plan attached to the letter. 284 00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: For this letter request, none. 285 00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:06,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, there was no attachment supporting the OVP's request for confidential funds. Correct? 286 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:09,060 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There were no attachments, ma'am. 287 00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:13,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, there were no attachments in support of your request for confidential funds. Tama? 288 00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:23,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Ortonia, what's your response? 289 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:25,480 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. No attachments. 290 00:55:29,170 --> 00:55:43,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And tama rin bang sabihin na ultimately ang nag-decide kung magkano ang hihilingin na confidential funds from the DBM ay si Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba? 291 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,020 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, the determination for the amount is 292 00:55:46,020 --> 00:55:46,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: in the 293 00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:48,500 Lemuel G. Ortoño: discussion of the Vice President. Yes, 294 00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:48,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: thank you. 295 00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:12,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Going back to the letter. Dahil wala kayong binigay na computation, projection, or supporting documents, ang tanging nilagay lamang ninyo sa request ay ang explanation kung bakit kayo humihingi ng request. Tama ba? 296 00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:14,520 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 297 00:56:15,020 --> 00:56:42,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And the explanation and the justification that you gave was, and I quote, for and in consideration of the safe implementation of the various projects and activities under the Good Governance Program and the conduct of official engagements and functional representation in international and domestic events as instructed by the Vice President. End of quote. Tama ba? 298 00:56:43,140 --> 00:56:45,780 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, as instructed by the Vice President. 299 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: As instructed by the President. 300 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:49,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In 301 00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:54,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: that same letter, you also stated, and I quote, 302 00:57:03,790 --> 00:57:25,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You committed to formulate programs, projects, and activities relevant to national security and peace and order and is devoted to implement said PPAs with proper security and safety protocols for the benefit of the institution through the OVP satellite offices, its partner stakeholders, and the general public. 303 00:57:28,060 --> 00:57:28,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's correct. 304 00:57:28,740 --> 00:57:31,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So at this point, Mr. Antonio, tama ba? With 305 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:50,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the permission of counsel, can you ask your guy in the tech booth to kindly, whenever you refer to a portion of the letter, to zoom it in so that it's readable on the part of the senator-judges because we really cannot read any part of it. Better. Thank you. You may proceed, counsel. 306 00:57:51,690 --> 00:58:19,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So tama ba, Mr. Antonio, nasabihin na nang pinadala ninyo ang sulat na ito Ang OVP, wala pang programs, projects, and activities na na-identify relevant to national security and peace and order. Tama ba? Dahil sabi dito sa letter, you just commit to formulate programs, projects, and activities relevant to national security and peace and order. So at that point, wala pa. Tama ba? 307 00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:21,610 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the letter, 308 00:58:21,730 --> 00:58:21,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ma'am, 309 00:58:21,950 --> 00:58:25,030 Lemuel G. Ortoño: there is a commitment to submit the plans and programs. 310 00:58:25,660 --> 00:58:36,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: No, Mr. Toño, walang sinasabi dito na you commit to submit plans and programs. Ang sinasabi dito, formulate programs, projects, and activities. Tama? Correct. 311 00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:58,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And this is despite the fact na kanina inamin mo na noong pinadala niyo yung letter na to, more or less, na-identify niyo na yung mga plans, projects, and activities of the OVP for the remainder of 2022. Tama ba? Yes. 312 00:59:00,350 --> 00:59:02,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. For the plans and programs. Please just 313 00:59:02,410 --> 00:59:03,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: answer 314 00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:09,810 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the question. Your Honor, please. The witness is answering the question. Counsel, let 315 00:59:09,810 --> 00:59:12,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the witness answer. He was in the process of answering it. 316 00:59:14,180 --> 00:59:19,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's see if it is responsive or not. It can be shaken up if it's not. Yes, Mr. 317 00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:40,190 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Antonio. Thank you, Your Honor. In the context of the plans and programs of the office, There has already been plans already at the beginning of the term of the Vice President in July of 2022. That's why we were able to implement already several programs and projects that we will be implementing for the rest of the year and for the rest of the term. 318 00:59:40,430 --> 00:59:55,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just to clarify, With respect to those plans, programs, and activities relating to national security and peace and order, eto yung ipo-formulate niyo palang when you sent out this letter because that is what stated in the letter. Tama ba? 319 00:59:56,310 --> 00:59:56,970 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 320 00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:57,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: That's correct. 321 01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:06,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm na wala na ibang letter request for confidential funds in August 2022. 322 01:00:07,140 --> 01:00:07,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: None. 323 01:00:11,890 --> 01:00:34,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And dahil wala pang plans, physical and financial plan nakalakip dun sa letter nyo ng August 22, 2022, sumulat sa OVP ang DBM requesting your office to submit This physical and financial plan in support of your request for confidential funds. Tama ba? 324 01:00:34,510 --> 01:00:35,350 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 325 01:00:36,770 --> 01:00:54,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And the Vice President instructed you, inutusan ka or inatasan ka ng Vice President na sumagot sa letter na ito ng DBM dated September 15, 2022. I'm referring to Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-B. 326 01:01:12,860 --> 01:01:15,420 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, we are in receipt of this communication. 327 01:01:16,370 --> 01:01:20,750 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ikaw ang inatasan ng Vice President na sumagot sa letter na yan. Tama ba? 328 01:01:21,050 --> 01:01:29,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff, I regularly respond to communication addressed to the office. 329 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:42,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But the Vice President knew very well that it was you who was responding to that letter of the DBM, correct? 330 01:01:42,650 --> 01:01:43,990 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, because as part of my 331 01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:44,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: duties. 332 01:01:50,220 --> 01:02:00,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And hindi niya naman... Ina-sign o inata sa iba. Nang nalaman niya na ikaw ang sasagot, inayaan ka niya at hindi niya sinabing iba na lang ang sumagot. Tama ba? 333 01:02:01,270 --> 01:02:18,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, for regular communications within the office, it is the assistant chief of staff who signs the documents corresponding to other agencies. So it's already inherent to the function as the assistant chief of staff. 334 01:02:18,570 --> 01:02:25,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Mr. Antonio. But that is ultimately subject to the decision and discretion of the Vice President. Tama ba? 335 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:27,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 336 01:02:27,460 --> 01:02:35,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, dahil yan ay subject sa discretion ng Vice President, anytime, the Vice President can revoke that authority. Tama ba? 337 01:02:35,260 --> 01:02:35,820 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 338 01:02:38,220 --> 01:02:50,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, following that instruction, you wrote a letter to DBM dated September 19, 2022. Tama ba? I'm referring to prosecution exhibit P-I-4-C. 339 01:02:54,610 --> 01:03:06,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: While you're showing the witness, Attorney May, the August 22, 2022 letter, what's the exhibit marking of that document, if any? 340 01:03:06,260 --> 01:03:07,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For 341 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:10,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the record. 342 01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:12,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: P 343 01:03:13,690 --> 01:03:17,110 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: -I-4-A. P 344 01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:21,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: -I-4-A. Thank you. 345 01:03:25,110 --> 01:03:31,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer pertaining to the September 19, 2022 letter, if you're aware of it. 346 01:03:32,460 --> 01:03:36,720 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I signed this transmittal letter to the DBM. 347 01:03:39,540 --> 01:03:46,510 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And in that letter, tinukoy ninyo ang Joint Circular 2015-01, tama ba? 348 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:47,940 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 349 01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:51,630 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you must be familiar with that Joint Circular, tama ba? 350 01:03:51,950 --> 01:03:54,030 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I'm familiar to a certain extent. 351 01:03:55,490 --> 01:03:58,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Atiyak binasa at naunawaan nyo rin ito, tama ba? 352 01:03:58,650 --> 01:03:59,150 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 353 01:03:59,710 --> 01:04:07,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Because, Mr. Antonio, you're an intelligent witness. You graduated with a bachelor's degree. In Arts at Datineo de Davao University, tama ba? 354 01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:09,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Communication Arts. 355 01:04:09,530 --> 01:04:15,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Communication Arts. You also have a Masters in Development program from the University of the Philippines. 356 01:04:15,870 --> 01:04:17,330 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, Development Communication. 357 01:04:17,810 --> 01:04:23,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Development Communication. And another Masters of Arts in Psychology, is that 358 01:04:23,090 --> 01:04:26,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: correct? From Southville International School and Colleges. 359 01:04:26,430 --> 01:04:26,930 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 360 01:04:27,070 --> 01:04:31,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And a diploma course from Datineo de Manila Center for Organization, Research and Development. 361 01:04:31,850 --> 01:04:32,450 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 362 01:04:32,790 --> 01:04:38,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, You worked as a professor. Nagturo ka sa Ateneo de Davao University. Tama ba? 363 01:04:38,830 --> 01:04:40,530 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, for one semester only. 364 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:52,340 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, going back to the letter, in that same letter, ipinadala nyo sa DBM ang physical and financial plan. Tama ba? 365 01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:53,420 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 366 01:04:53,700 --> 01:05:04,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And that was the first time. Yan yung unang pagkakataon na nag-submit kayo ng physical and financial plan sa DBM in support. of your request for confidential funds. Tama ba? 367 01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:06,120 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 368 01:05:11,830 --> 01:05:12,350 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And 369 01:05:12,350 --> 01:05:23,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: also, of course, bago niyo isinubmit ang kopya ng physical and financial plan na yan, I'm sure, tinignan at binasan niyo at inintindi niyo yung physical and financial plan. Tama ba? 370 01:05:24,050 --> 01:05:26,190 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I read the PFP. 371 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:47,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we would like to confront a witness with a physical and financial plan dated, bearing the date September 16. 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A, 372 01:05:50,020 --> 01:05:51,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Annex A. 373 01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:58,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So this is an attachment to Exhibit P-I-4-A as Annex A. 374 01:06:14,250 --> 01:06:32,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, Mr. Antonio, dito sa box na may nakasulat, prepared by, may kasama ring petsa, September 16, 2022. Tama bang sabihin? na itong September 16, 2022, eto yung date kung kailan na-prepare itong physical and financial plan. 375 01:06:33,590 --> 01:06:36,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am. Yes. 376 01:06:37,290 --> 01:06:48,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ibig sabihin, noong nag-request kayo ng confidential fund in August 2022, wala pang na-prepare na physical and financial plan. Tama ba? 377 01:06:48,350 --> 01:06:48,970 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 378 01:06:49,290 --> 01:06:49,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And 379 01:06:49,890 --> 01:07:07,240 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: this physical and financial plan was also approved only on September 16, 2022 as shown by the box bearing that date with the printed words approved by. Tama ba? 380 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:08,860 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document. 381 01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:09,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Based on 382 01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:24,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the document. At dyan sa box na may nakasulat na approved by, may pirma ulit. Above the printed name, Sara Duterte. Yan ay pirma ng Vice President. Siya mismo ang pumirman yan. Tama ba? 383 01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:26,680 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's her signature, ma'am. At 384 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:41,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: dahil walang naka-countersign katabi ng kanyang signature, tama ba na yung dokumento niya yan went straight to her without yourself or anyone reviewing that for her? Tama ba? 385 01:07:42,700 --> 01:07:46,600 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I can just personally say, ma'am, that the document, ma'am, 386 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,060 Lemuel G. Ortoño: did not pass through my office. 387 01:07:48,580 --> 01:07:49,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Before 388 01:07:49,490 --> 01:07:50,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: you 389 01:07:50,050 --> 01:07:50,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: continue, counsel, 390 01:07:53,190 --> 01:08:07,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court noticed that the signature of the Vice President in this document appears to be different from the signature in the August 22 document. So the Vice President has at least two signatures so far. Can you confirm that both 391 01:08:07,010 --> 01:08:13,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: are signatures? Yes, I can confirm, Sir, Your Honor, that both are the signatures of the Vice President. You can 392 01:08:13,290 --> 01:08:18,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: confirm likewise that they appear to be different, though? Yes, that's correct, Your Honor. Thank you. Your Witness Council? 393 01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:33,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you confirm, Mr. Antonio, that this physical and financial plan was approved matapos ang 25 days from your request of confidential funds to the DBM. Tama ba? 394 01:08:33,380 --> 01:08:35,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry, can you repeat again the question, ma'am? 395 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:44,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The physical and financial plan that was prepared 20 days after you requested confidential funds from the DBM. 396 01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:48,660 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I believe, ma'am, parang less than 20 days, ma'am, 397 01:08:48,660 --> 01:08:51,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: because the request was in August 20. 22. 398 01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:54,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, 399 01:08:58,860 --> 01:09:01,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: that's correct. And 400 01:09:04,310 --> 01:09:07,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: dahil nabanggit mo yung... Now, 401 01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:23,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the physical and financial plan indicated the supposed PPAs for which the confidential fund was allotted. Tama ba? 402 01:09:25,300 --> 01:09:27,920 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. Based on the document. At 403 01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ang nakasaad dito ay good governance program. Tama ba? 404 01:09:32,970 --> 01:09:33,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, 405 01:09:33,410 --> 01:09:34,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: that's correct. There was 406 01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:41,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: no itemization of the programs and activities that will be funded by the requested confidential funds. Tama ba? 407 01:09:41,610 --> 01:09:43,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Based on the document presented. 408 01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:51,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And we will confirm that this good governance program, it's not just one particular program of the OVP. Tama ba? 409 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:52,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. 410 01:09:52,260 --> 01:09:52,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: It is 411 01:09:52,440 --> 01:10:08,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: in fact, kukumpirmahin nyo na itong good governance program, ito ay umbrella program. or umbrella brand ng flagship activities ng OVP. Tama ba? 412 01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:09,800 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 413 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:23,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So under that good governance program, merong mga particular na plans, programs, and activities. Tama ba? Yes. Kasama dito, yung medical assistance, burial assistance, libreng sakay, mga satellite offices. Tama ba? 414 01:10:23,740 --> 01:10:25,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. So 415 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:32,620 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: balit, wala nito mga particular na activities na ito na isina-add sa physical and financial plan na inyong sinabit. Tama ba? 416 01:10:32,980 --> 01:10:35,340 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the submitted PFP. 417 01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:55,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also confirm na itong flagship program na good governance program, ito ay pinupondohanan ng regular budget ng OVP sa ilalim ng General Appropriations Act. Tama ba? 418 01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:56,720 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 419 01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:11,760 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa katunayan, sa 2022 ga-a, may line item na 621.6 million na mismong para sa good governance, engagement, and social service projects. Tama ba? 420 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:17,120 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Again, hindi ko lang po makita yung... 421 01:11:19,110 --> 01:11:24,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May we kindly request the tech booth to enlarge the image being flashed on the screen. 422 01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,120 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, correct. 621 million. 423 01:11:33,820 --> 01:11:39,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina, binasa ninyo na sa liham ng August 22, 424 01:11:39,690 --> 01:11:40,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: yung 425 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: additional items na ito. Tama ba? 426 01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:13,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Natira na lamang yung good governance program. 427 01:12:13,530 --> 01:12:16,190 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am, that was submitted. 428 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:17,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 429 01:12:17,420 --> 01:12:31,140 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ang dahilan nito, you will confirm na itong dalawang programs nito, hindi ito allowed under the joint circular that you cited in your September 19, 2022 letter. Tama ba? 430 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:37,680 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As to the specifics for these two items, ma'am, I cannot answer. 431 01:12:37,940 --> 01:12:43,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Thank you. Naupunta naman tayo sa 2023 Physical and Financial Plan. 432 01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:56,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will confirm na bilang Assistant Secretary at Assistant Chief of Staff ng OVP, familiar din kayo dito sa 2023 Physical and Financial Plan. 433 01:12:57,180 --> 01:12:59,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I was able to see it, ma'am. 434 01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:10,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. In fact, isa sa mga signatories dito sa Physical and Financial Plan na ito ay si Ms. Rosaline Sanchez. Tama ba? 435 01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:18,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Again, may we request the tech booth to enlarge the document being flashed on the screen. 436 01:13:22,700 --> 01:13:24,020 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Correct. 437 01:13:24,340 --> 01:13:28,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At itong si Ms. Rosaline Sanchez, siya naman ang director ng AFSO. 438 01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:29,280 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 439 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Nasabi mo, nagre-report din sa'yo. Tama ba? 440 01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:32,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Going 441 01:13:32,200 --> 01:14:17,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: back to that physical and financial plan, you will confirm that the expected outcome, physical targets, budget for the fourth quarters of 2023, na sinulat dito are just verbatim reproductions of the expected outcome physical targets and budget in the 2022 physical and financial plans. In short, yung expected outcome physical targets at budget para sa apat na quarter na nakasaad dito sa 2023 physical and financial plan, salita for salitang kinopia. ang expected outcome, physical targets, at budget sa 2022 physical and financial plans. Tama ba? 442 01:14:17,380 --> 01:14:17,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based 443 01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:19,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: on the document, ma'am, it 444 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:20,320 Lemuel G. Ortoño: has the same activities 445 01:14:25,030 --> 01:14:26,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: and projects. 446 01:14:26,270 --> 01:14:34,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Dito sa 2023, physical and financial plan ang nakasaad na PPA ay socio-economic program and delivery. Tama ba? 447 01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:36,060 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's 448 01:14:36,060 --> 01:14:36,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: correct. But we 449 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:44,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: will also confirm that like the good governance program, yung socio-economic program delivery, 450 01:14:46,340 --> 01:14:56,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hindi rin ito isang particular na programa. This is just an umbrella brand for the flagship programs of the OVP for 2023. Tama ba? 451 01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:58,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. Sa 452 01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:06,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ilalim niyan, merong mga particular din na programa, individual and particular projects. Tama ba? 453 01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:07,280 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 454 01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:17,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngunit wala kahit anuman dito sa mga particular programs na ito ang isinaad niyo. o nilagay niyo sa physical and financial plan of 2023. Tama ba? 455 01:15:17,650 --> 01:15:19,770 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the documents that's presented. 456 01:15:20,350 --> 01:15:21,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 457 01:15:24,350 --> 01:15:38,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: tulad ng 2022 physical and financial plan, etong 2023 physical and financial plan ay personal ding inaprubahan ng Vice President. Tama ba? 458 01:15:38,330 --> 01:15:41,070 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, it has the signature of the Vice President. And 459 01:15:41,070 --> 01:15:49,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: again, dahil walang counter-signature, Sa katabi ng kanyang pangalan, tama rin bang sabihin na hindi rin ito dumaan sa inyong opisina? 460 01:15:49,430 --> 01:15:51,110 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No, it did not pass through my office. 461 01:15:51,950 --> 01:16:10,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But generally, Mr. Antonio, dahil kayo nga yung nangangasiwa or nag-exercise ng general supervision over the SMO as well as the AFSO, generally, walang documents ng OVP na hindi dumadaan sa office ninyo. Tama ba? 462 01:16:10,350 --> 01:16:11,550 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Generally po, ma'am. 463 01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:11,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. 464 01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:22,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, now, pumunta na tayo sa disbursement vouchers. Okay, 465 01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:49,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, dahil ikaw ay naging kawani ng gobyerno for almost two decades, you would know na walang pondo ng publiko or pera ng bayan ang maaaring bayaran maliban kung supportado ng disbursement voucher, tama ba? 466 01:16:49,310 --> 01:16:50,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 467 01:16:50,930 --> 01:17:00,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang voucher, in short, ang voucher ang unang pinoproseso bago maaaring gumuhit ng anumang cheque involving public funds. Tama ba? 468 01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:02,040 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 469 01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:25,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, Mr. Antonio, I am showing you four disbursement vouchers which are a prosecution's exhibit P-I-10-A, P-I-10-B, P-I-10-C, P-I-10-D. You are familiar with these disbursement vouchers, correct? 470 01:17:27,690 --> 01:17:31,810 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Familiar ka sa mga disbursement vouchers na ito? 471 01:17:32,470 --> 01:17:33,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I am. 472 01:17:35,660 --> 01:17:36,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, 473 01:17:38,340 --> 01:17:43,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: nakapirma ka sa disbursement, sa lahat ng disbursement vouchers na iyan, tama ba? 474 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:47,460 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the authorization of our office order. 475 01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:54,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ang inyong 476 01:17:57,070 --> 01:18:15,340 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: pangalan ay nakapatong at nakalimbag sa salitang agency, sorry, agency head or authorized representative, tama ba? Ang agency head ng tinutukoy dito ay walang iba kundi si Vice President Duterte. Tama ba? 477 01:18:15,340 --> 01:18:16,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 478 01:18:17,450 --> 01:18:27,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang ibig sabihin nito, lumalagda ka sa visa ng otoridad or on the strength of the authority that you were given by the Vice President. Tama ba? 479 01:18:27,330 --> 01:18:29,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on an office order. 480 01:18:29,550 --> 01:18:29,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. 481 01:18:32,110 --> 01:18:32,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 482 01:18:32,710 --> 01:18:43,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ultimately, ang otoridad na yan na lumagda bilang kanyang kinatawan or authorized representative. ay nagmula mismo sa vice-presidente. Tama ba? 483 01:18:43,730 --> 01:18:44,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 484 01:18:45,970 --> 01:18:50,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, ang inyong lagda ay nasa loob ng kahong Approved for Payment. 485 01:18:51,470 --> 01:18:52,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You 486 01:18:52,150 --> 01:19:05,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: will confirm ang ibig sabihin nito ng paglagda ninyo or sa paglagda ninyo, inaprubahan ninyo ang pagbayad or pag-withdraw ng confidential funds para sa 2022 at 2023. Tama ba? 487 01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:06,660 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 488 01:19:07,060 --> 01:19:21,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At dahil lumagda kayo bilang authorized representative, ng Vice President, ang pag-aproba mong iyon ay ibinigay din sa visa ng otoridad ng Vice President. Tama ba? 489 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based po sa isang office order. 490 01:19:27,180 --> 01:19:38,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, in short, it is as if it was the Vice President herself who was giving that approval to release those funds referred to in those disbursement vouchers. Tama ba? 491 01:19:39,070 --> 01:19:40,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As authorized po. 492 01:19:40,330 --> 01:19:41,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: As authorized, yes. 493 01:19:43,400 --> 01:20:23,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, in short, Vice President nga. In short, Vice President approved the release of those, effectively, the Vice President approved the release of the funds referred to in those disbursement vouchers. Tama ba? Your Honor, please ask and answer the question. The reason I have to make a follow-up question is that the answer of this witness was not responsive. I was asking whether it meant effectively that the Vice President herself approve the release of the funds referred to in that disbursement voucher. But the answer of the respondent was that it was authorized by her. So I want a categorical statement, Your Honor, from this witness. 494 01:20:24,050 --> 01:20:28,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it. In the meantime, counsel, witness may answer? Yes po, 495 01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:29,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: as 496 01:20:29,290 --> 01:20:30,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: authorized po. Yes. 497 01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:33,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung 498 01:20:37,020 --> 01:20:49,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: gayon, or in other words, kung wala ang pag-aproba ng Vice President sa mga disbursement vouchers na to, Wala rin confidential funds sanang mailalabas. Tama ba? 499 01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:51,280 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry, again, can 500 01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:52,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you repeat 501 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:52,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: the question po? 502 01:20:52,780 --> 01:21:07,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung walang approval ng Vice President sa mga disbursement vouchers na to, wala rin confidential funds na mailalabas dahil ang funds or ang pondong pinapatukoyan dito ay ang confidential funds for 2022 and 2023. Tama ba? 503 01:21:07,540 --> 01:21:10,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If there is no approval po, there is no release 504 01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:10,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: of funds. 505 01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:11,520 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Okay, 506 01:21:11,740 --> 01:21:12,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: thank you. 507 01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:40,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the indulgence of counsel, Mr. Ortonio, Yung approved for payment ng binirmahan niyo is in item or letter D. Yes. Do you have the document in front of you? Yes, sir. Yung letter A, certified, expense, cash, advance, necessary, lawful, and incurred under my direct supervision is signed by the Vice President. Yes, that's correct, Your Honor. What does that mean? It means that it is being... 508 01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:46,140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anong ibig sabihin ng pag-pirma ng Vice President dyan sa box na yan? 509 01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:52,500 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The Vice President certifies that the funds is made under her supervision. 510 01:21:54,650 --> 01:22:04,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And hindi ka pipirma, ano ba ito? Sequence ba ito? A, B, C, D? Pag walang pirma si A, walang pirma si B, hindi mo napipirma si C, hindi ka pipirma? 511 01:22:05,090 --> 01:22:07,130 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. So kayo yung huling-huling 512 01:22:07,130 --> 01:22:07,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: pumirma? 513 01:22:07,730 --> 01:22:11,610 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. Sa dokumentong ito ng disbursement voucher? Yes, Your Honor. 514 01:22:12,070 --> 01:22:12,710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Counsel. 515 01:22:13,300 --> 01:22:15,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, let us now go to the four checks. 516 01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:38,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang bawat isa sa apat na disbursement vouchers na iyong inaprubahan, which you identified earlier, ito ay nagresulta sa pagbuhit ng katumbas na cheque ng land bank. Tama ba? It resulted in the drawing of four land bank checks corresponding to the funds referred to in the disbursement vouchers. Tama ba? 517 01:22:38,410 --> 01:22:39,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 518 01:22:41,140 --> 01:22:57,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I am showing you the four checks, which are Prosecutions Exhibit P-28-A, P-I-28-B, P-I-28-C, P-I-28-D. 519 01:22:58,610 --> 01:22:59,230 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: You 520 01:23:00,350 --> 01:23:03,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: are familiar with these checks. Tama ba? 521 01:23:19,450 --> 01:23:22,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. I'm familiar with the checks being presented. 522 01:23:23,170 --> 01:23:23,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In 523 01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:39,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: fact, yung pirma mo, makikita dyan sa mga cheque niya. Ikaw ay pumirma sa apat na cheque. Tama ba? 524 01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, as part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff. 525 01:23:43,700 --> 01:23:57,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, merong office order na nagtatalaga sa iyo bilang signatory para sa mga cheque na may halagang more than 1 million pesos. Tama ba? 526 01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. At 527 01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:03,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ang order na iyon ay nanggaling din kay Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba? 528 01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, the office order was signed by the Vice President. 529 01:24:06,860 --> 01:24:09,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Signed by her and thus approved by her. Tama ba? 530 01:24:10,140 --> 01:24:10,440 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 531 01:24:16,130 --> 01:24:17,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, you 532 01:24:18,980 --> 01:24:25,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: will confirm na kasama ka sa pag-encash ng mga checking ito. Tama ba? 533 01:24:26,380 --> 01:24:28,020 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I can confirm. In 534 01:24:28,020 --> 01:24:37,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: fact, ikaw lang ang kasama ni Ms. Gina Acosta ng i-encash mismo ito sa Land Bank Shaw Boulevard Branch. Tama ba? 535 01:24:37,580 --> 01:24:40,380 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, when she requested me to accompany her. 536 01:24:40,930 --> 01:24:44,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, you must be familiar with the Land Bank Shaw Boulevard Branch. 537 01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:45,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 538 01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:54,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At ito, Land Bank, Shaw Boulevard Branch ay matatagpuan sa Beacon Plaza, Shaw Boulevard, 539 01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:55,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Canton ng ID. 540 01:24:55,820 --> 01:24:56,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Or 541 01:27:49,630 --> 01:27:50,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the encashment itself? 542 01:27:51,070 --> 01:28:03,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I would assume, ma'am, na Ms. Gina has informed the Vice President yung pag-encash niya. But as to if I'm accompanying her, I'm not sure, ma'am. 543 01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:17,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. But the withdrawal and the encashment was... within the knowledge of the Vice President. Because in fact, as I answered, Your Honor. This is a different question now, Your Honor. Finish 544 01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:17,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your question, counsel. 545 01:28:19,700 --> 01:28:30,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, Mr. Ortoño, you will confirm that lahat ng nangyayari atungkol sa confidential funds, nire-report ito sa Vice Presidente. Tama ba? 546 01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:32,620 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Vague, Your Honor. 547 01:28:34,780 --> 01:28:46,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly reform and be more specific, counsel. Are you just asking about the fact that Mr. Ortonio accompanied Gina on all four occasions? Kung alam ng VP? 548 01:28:46,340 --> 01:28:59,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: No, Your Honor. I'm referring to all matters pertaining to the confidential funds. These are reported to the Vice President and reported to and or instructed by the Vice President. 549 01:29:00,130 --> 01:29:04,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then that would be vague, counsel. Kindly be more specific. Kasi dininayan niya na kanina. 550 01:29:04,730 --> 01:29:05,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He 551 01:29:05,370 --> 01:29:16,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: said he doesn't know if the Vice President knew. that he would accompany Gina. Kindly be more specific. You can ask the witness. He's intelligent enough. Ask him specific questions, counsel. 552 01:29:16,910 --> 01:29:43,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I will park that for now, Your Honor. I will... You can move on then. Okay. Now let's go to the audit observation memoranda, Mr. Ortoño. You will confirm that you are familiar with this audit observation memoranda. I'm referring to Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-12-B P-I P-I-12-E P-I-12-E P 553 01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:47,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: -I-12-I 554 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:00,680 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: For 555 01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the record, witness was confronted with the three documents. 556 01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:17,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Ortoño, you are familiar with this audit observation memoranda dahil ikaw ay binigyan ng kopya ng mga ito. Correct? 557 01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:19,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. I received 558 01:30:19,900 --> 01:30:20,240 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: it on 559 01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:21,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: behalf of the Vice President. 560 01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:33,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You've received it on behalf of the Vice President. In fact, lumagda ka dyan bilang patunay ng iyong pagtanggap sa mga audit observation memoranda na iyong tinitingnan ngayon. Tama ba? Yes, 561 01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:34,340 Lemuel G. Ortoño: that's correct. 562 01:30:35,480 --> 01:30:45,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At kayo rin ang inatasang sumagot ng audit observation memoranda na yan ng vice-presidente. Tama ba? 563 01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I was given instructions to prepare the draft for the reply. 564 01:30:50,660 --> 01:30:53,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, given instructions by the vice-president or so. Tama ba? 565 01:30:53,500 --> 01:30:53,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 566 01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:07,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And is it also correct to say na bago kayo tumugon sa mga audit observation memoranda na yan, Sinuri at binag-aralan din ninyo ang mga liquidation report nakalakip dito. 567 01:31:08,410 --> 01:31:17,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I consulted with the special dispersing officer and the security officer on the information that will be included in the reply. 568 01:31:18,980 --> 01:31:29,760 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you also studied, you also checked, reviewed those liquidation reports that were attached to the, that were referred to in the audit observation memoranda. Tama ba? 569 01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:42,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, I was only, I only got I only consulted the special disbursing officer and the security officer on the information that will be included in the reply. 570 01:31:42,910 --> 01:31:56,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you are saying, hindi mo nakita ang liquidation report? Umasa ka lamang sa kung anong ni-report sa inyo ng special disbursing officer at ng security officer? 571 01:31:56,380 --> 01:31:58,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I got the information from them, ma'am. 572 01:31:58,880 --> 01:31:59,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 573 01:32:03,970 --> 01:32:21,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: How about the certification and... Accomplishment Reports. Of course, you saw these documents because in fact, you would be referring later to these documents in your reply to the Audit Observation Memoranda. Tama ba? 574 01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:30,120 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I was able to see the reports, ma'am, but I did not anymore go into details, ma'am. And then, that was made as an attachment to the replies. Okay. 575 01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:37,680 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just a clarification, yung sa liquidation report, you also saw those liquidation reports. Tama ba? 576 01:32:38,070 --> 01:32:41,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: At that time, ma'am, I was able to see the liquidation reports. 577 01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:48,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Since you saw those liquidation reports, you 578 01:32:51,770 --> 01:33:03,990 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: would also, you must have also seen that in those liquidation reports, personal din na nilagdaan ng vice-presidente. Ang mga liquidation reports na yun. Tama ba? 579 01:33:04,150 --> 01:33:10,290 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, the question is vague. Counsel should refer to the particular report, Your Honor. 580 01:33:10,750 --> 01:33:18,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly show the document, the liquidation reports you are referring to, counsel, so that the witness may be able to look at it. 581 01:33:19,020 --> 01:33:23,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, I am referring to... The 582 01:33:23,770 --> 01:33:25,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: four liquidation reports, I presume? 583 01:33:26,210 --> 01:33:27,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 584 01:33:29,020 --> 01:33:37,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I am referring to Prosecutions Exhibits P-I-9-A to P-I-9-D. 585 01:33:38,140 --> 01:33:38,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: At 586 01:34:01,350 --> 01:34:08,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: that time, ma'am, I was able to... Just see it, ma'am, physically, but I was not able to review it, ma'am. Okay, 587 01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:15,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: but you will confirm that those liquidation reports all were signed by the Vice President, correct? 588 01:34:15,990 --> 01:34:19,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document, ma'am. It has the signature of the Vice President. 589 01:34:20,430 --> 01:34:37,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let's go to the certifications attached to the liquidation reports, which are Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-6-A. to P-I-6-D again. 590 01:34:37,950 --> 01:34:38,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Can 591 01:34:38,450 --> 01:34:42,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you please kindly refer to the certification? In 592 01:35:07,860 --> 01:35:41,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the meantime, Your Honor, I will just go to the, park that question for now and go to the next question. So, let's go to the accomplishment reports, Mr. Ortonio. Since you mentioned, you also see these documents, you will also confirm na itong mga accomplishment reports na ito, lahat inaprubahan din ng vice-presidente. I'm referring to exhibits P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-D. 593 01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:46,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly show the witness counsel. Assisting counsel may approach. I 594 01:36:22,930 --> 01:36:27,630 Lemuel G. Ortoño: was able to see, ma'am, but I did not scrutinize anymore. 595 01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:42,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Did not scrutinize. But you will confirm that the signature of the Vice President appear in those documents since earlier you admitted na familiar ka sa signature ng Vice President. 596 01:36:42,480 --> 01:36:42,780 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 597 01:36:43,740 --> 01:36:57,200 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kanina nabanggit mo, if you can just backtrack a bit, kanina nabanggit mo na nakipag-coordinate ka sa security officer at sa special disbursing officer. 598 01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:58,060 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 599 01:36:59,620 --> 01:37:07,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Tama rin ba nasabihin na nag-coordinate ka with them upon the instructions of the Vice President. Tama ba? 600 01:37:07,390 --> 01:37:12,870 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. There was an instruction to coordinate so that we can properly reply to the AOM. 601 01:37:13,210 --> 01:37:13,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 602 01:37:17,030 --> 01:37:30,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let us go back to Liquidation Report No. 2022-12-152, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-9-A. 603 01:37:31,130 --> 01:37:31,730 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And 604 01:37:39,410 --> 01:37:42,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you will confirm that based on this document, 605 01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:54,930 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang buong 125 million na confidential funds ay lubusang naubos pagsapit ng December 31, 2022. Tama ba? 606 01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:04,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document, based on the liquidation report. 607 01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:27,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And since in-encash niyo ang mga cheque pertaining to this fund, confidential fund, noon lamang December 20, 2022, Tama bang sabihin na yung pondo ay na-disburse sa loob lamang ng 11 days? Tama ba? 608 01:38:28,420 --> 01:38:31,300 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on 609 01:38:31,300 --> 01:38:31,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: this document. 610 01:38:32,300 --> 01:38:34,300 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If you base it here, ma 611 01:38:34,300 --> 01:38:37,160 Lemuel G. Ortoño: 'am, that's December 612 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:41,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: 21 to 31. 613 01:38:51,470 --> 01:38:52,490 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, a good ten days. 614 01:38:53,730 --> 01:38:54,690 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 615 01:38:55,170 --> 01:38:55,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The 616 01:38:55,850 --> 01:38:56,190 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: document 617 01:38:56,190 --> 01:39:33,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: speaks for itself. Your Honor, I believe counsel is referring to the original documents rule. Unfortunately for her, Your Honor, that's an improper invocation of the original documents rule. The original documents rule does not bar questions relating to the document. What it simply prohibits is the substitution of the testimony of the witness for the document without producing the original of said document. Your Honor, the original of this document was presented to this honorable court as early as the pre-trial conference of this case, Your Honor. 618 01:39:33,860 --> 01:39:43,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will allow it subject to the parameters that they cannot change what's contained in the document, but he may be questioned with respect to his understanding and appreciation of the document. Yes, 619 01:39:43,980 --> 01:39:44,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: attorney? Your Honor, 620 01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:50,850 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: quick reply. Because the witness was asked to interpret the document, Your Honor. and the contents of the document. I wasn't asking, 621 01:39:50,930 --> 01:40:01,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor. It's by simple arithmetic, Your Honor. She was referring to the contents. With all due respect, Your Honor, if I can just make a brief reply to the manifestation, Your Honor. Yes, counsel, 622 01:40:02,070 --> 01:40:02,550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: briefly. 623 01:40:02,910 --> 01:40:17,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, I wasn't asking, Your Honor, this witness to interpret the document. By simple arithmetic, Your Honor, this witness can easily come up with a number of days within which, and just by looking at the document, this witness can easily come up and 624 01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:28,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Say the number of days within which the 125 million was spent and disbursed, Your Honor. 625 01:40:29,420 --> 01:40:41,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As long as the document is not going to be changed, I will allow it. Witness, if you know, if you know, again, you are well-educated to be able to answer the simple question. If you know... 626 01:40:41,420 --> 01:41:02,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Again, Mr. Ortonio, you will confirm that the funds referred to... in that liquidation document was fully disbursed within a good 10 days because you said the disbursement covers the period December 21 to December 31, 2022. Tama ba? 627 01:41:03,870 --> 01:41:07,170 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on computation, ma'am, it's actually 11 628 01:41:07,170 --> 01:41:08,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: days. Based 629 01:41:08,450 --> 01:41:11,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: on the computation and based on the document, ma'am, 630 01:41:11,270 --> 01:41:14,070 Lemuel G. Ortoño: it will reflect 11 days. 631 01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:28,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ito ay sa kabila ng Fact na sa ilalim ng PFP ang pondo ay para sa buong ikaapat na quarter ng 2022. Tama ba? 632 01:41:28,700 --> 01:41:30,640 Lemuel G. Ortoño: It's for the fourth quarter of 633 01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:31,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2022. 634 01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:32,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: And 635 01:41:32,220 --> 01:41:40,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: that fourth quarter of 2022 means the period October, November, December of 2022. Tama ba? 636 01:41:41,420 --> 01:41:45,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: For fourth quarter, ma'am, that covers for October, November, and December. 637 01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:48,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: October, November, and December 2022. Yes. 638 01:41:49,100 --> 01:41:49,460 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 639 01:41:50,510 --> 01:42:09,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, it means, dahil it covers that period, October, November, December 2022, yung pondo ay sprinted out supposedly para sa activities na itinala noong October, November, and December 2022. Tama ba? Your Honor, 640 01:42:09,310 --> 01:42:09,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. 641 01:42:10,450 --> 01:42:10,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel? 642 01:42:11,450 --> 01:42:21,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That is an assumption, Your Honor. That's a conclusion of fact. The witness did not testify that it should be spread throughout the... the quarter, Your Honor, and speculative also. 643 01:42:22,220 --> 01:42:28,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May I just, Your Honor, make a counter-manifestation and a reply to the comment? Yes, 644 01:42:28,380 --> 01:42:29,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. What's your reply? 645 01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:37,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm not assuming anything, Your Honor. Precisely, I am asking this witness to confirm. There's no assumption in that, Your Honor. 646 01:42:38,630 --> 01:42:52,330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm counseled, but it has no basis. I'm counseled for responder. It's correct. The witness did not say. Neither was it contained in any letter of the office of the Vice President that it is for the entire quarter. 647 01:42:54,170 --> 01:42:57,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Reform counsel, you can get to what you want still. With 648 01:42:57,690 --> 01:43:08,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: all due respect, Your Honor, this witness has just admitted earlier that the funds was for the fourth quarter of 2022. He 649 01:43:08,370 --> 01:43:12,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: even mentioned that it is for the period of October. 650 01:43:14,380 --> 01:43:16,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: November and December 2022. 651 01:43:17,300 --> 01:43:20,580 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, I believe the court has already ruled on the matter, Your Honor. 652 01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:26,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly reform, counsel. You can get to what you want just as easily, counsel. 653 01:43:28,030 --> 01:44:01,110 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Earlier, Mr. Ortonio, you mentioned na yung programs na nakalagay both in the 2022 and 2023 physical and financial plans which are the good governance programs and the socio-economic programs, these are just umbrella programs. At sa ilalim nito, merong mga individual plans, programs, and activities ang OVP. Tama ba? Yes. And these plans, programs, and activities are spread out through the year. Tama ba? If 654 01:44:01,110 --> 01:44:04,150 Lemuel G. Ortoño: you base it on the PFP, there is 655 01:44:04,150 --> 01:44:18,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: an allocation. Sorry, I'm not referring to the PFP. Just generally, itong socio-economic programs, program delivery and good governance program. Ito ay naka-spread out through the entire year? Yes, for 656 01:44:18,230 --> 01:44:18,810 Lemuel G. Ortoño: implementation 657 01:44:18,810 --> 01:44:20,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: throughout the 658 01:44:20,430 --> 01:44:20,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: year. 659 01:44:20,910 --> 01:44:28,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, so merong programa na naka-schedule for October, meron din for November, meron din for December. Tama ba? Yes, 660 01:44:28,710 --> 01:44:32,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: there are schedules for the rollout of the activities. Okay, 661 01:44:32,130 --> 01:44:59,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: tama. At dahil yung PFP or physical financial plans, ang sinasabi lamang ay social economic development program at good governance program. Effectively, ang ibig sabihin nito, yung pondong nakatalaga doon sa relevant quarter na yon ay nakatalaga para sa relevant programs, plans, and activities for each quarter. Your Honor, 662 01:44:59,950 --> 01:45:05,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. Can the counsel show what particular PFP she's referring to, Your Honor? Your Honor, may we request 663 01:45:05,930 --> 01:45:08,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: our assisting counsel to furnish 664 01:45:10,150 --> 01:45:11,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness 665 01:45:11,290 --> 01:45:19,510 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: with both PFPs, Your Honor, for the 2022 and 2023 PFP. So 666 01:45:22,900 --> 01:45:29,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: just for clarity, let's just go to the PFP for 2022. 667 01:45:30,890 --> 01:45:32,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May 668 01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:40,380 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: nakalagay dyan sa PAPs. Good governance program. Tama ba? 669 01:45:40,480 --> 01:45:41,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 670 01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:52,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang sinasabi mo kanina, yung good governance program na yan, hindi yan isang particular na programa lamang. Merong mga flagship programs under that good governance program. Tama ba? 671 01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:53,820 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 672 01:45:54,120 --> 01:46:08,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And for every month, for the remaining quarter of 2022, meaning October, November, and December, meron dyang mga nakatalang activities. plans and programs falling under the good governance programs. Tama ba? 673 01:46:08,290 --> 01:46:09,730 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, under the good governance programs. 674 01:46:09,730 --> 01:46:26,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, under the good governance programs. At nakalagay din dyan na yung halagang 125 million ay para sa quarter 4 of 2022, meaning that is the period October, November, and December 2022. Tama ba? 675 01:46:27,050 --> 01:46:30,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: For the subject na confidential funds. 676 01:46:30,570 --> 01:46:47,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, for the confidential funds. Yes. Tama rin bang sabihin na for, well, presumably, yung October, November, and December, merong mga activities for which the confidential funds would answer to? 677 01:46:47,220 --> 01:46:48,120 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Or would 678 01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:49,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: answer for? Tama ba? Your 679 01:46:49,660 --> 01:46:50,060 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. 680 01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:51,500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? 681 01:46:52,720 --> 01:47:05,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, she's asking for an opinion. We note that the witness is not even the one who prepared this PFP, Your Honor. and counsel also stated, presumably, Your Honor. So that's asking for an opinion. With 682 01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:05,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the 683 01:47:05,480 --> 01:47:23,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: indulgence of counsels, so that we can get somewhere before we break for lunch, Mr. Ortoño, yung PAP po ninyo at yung request nyo sa confidential funds sa huling quarter ng 2022, ang plano nyo sana para sa buong quarter, buong huling quarter ng 2022? 684 01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:41,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Your Honor, if you will base, number one po, because I'm not, I did not participate in the preparation of the PFP. So, in terms of the details of the implementation for the confidential funds, I may not be able to properly... 685 01:47:41,220 --> 01:47:55,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi po po natin pinag-uusapan ng implementation. Pinag-uusapan po natin. Nung nag-submit kayo ng plano para mangingin ang confidential fund, at ikaw yung pumirman nun, para sa last quarter. Kaya lang, as we all know, late na na-release yung pera, hindi ba? 686 01:47:55,360 --> 01:48:01,420 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. Based on the PFP, Your Honor, it's... As indicated here, it's for October to December. 687 01:48:01,700 --> 01:48:08,160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, para sa last quarter nga ng 2022. Kailan na-release yung pera? Kailan mo binitraw? December 21? 688 01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:30,870 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The SARO was released December 30 and then the withdrawal was made December 20. December 20. Tapos in-implement niyo hanggang December 31. Based on the documents, Your Honor, the activities were implemented until December 21. 31. 31, sorry. Until 689 01:48:30,870 --> 01:48:50,910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: December 31. Now, I'll go a step further, counsel. Ba't ba kailangan madaliin yan? Hindi ba ang budget good for two years? As you very well know, given your position in the office of the Vice President, the budget, the GAA, is good for two years anyway. So why was there a need to implement it within the year? 690 01:48:53,150 --> 01:48:58,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Because, Your Honor, the request was made for the specific year, which is 2022. 691 01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:08,250 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at dahil nga yung plano nyo is for the last quarter of 2022. Yes, Your Honor. Your Witness Council. 692 01:49:08,410 --> 01:49:35,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just follow through, Your Honor, to the question made by the presiding officer. So just to clarify, dahil nakasaan dyan na yung confidential fund Confidential funds of 125 million for 2022 is for the last quarter, meaning for October, November, and December. Nakalaan yan para sa activities under the good governance programs ng OVP for October, November, and December. Tama ba? 693 01:49:35,550 --> 01:49:36,750 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on that. 694 01:49:36,750 --> 01:49:37,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Based on the document. 695 01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:45,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. At bilang 696 01:49:47,480 --> 01:49:55,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: supervising authority over the financial services ng OVP, alam din ninyo 697 01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:18,480 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. That's 698 01:50:18,480 --> 01:50:18,680 Lemuel G. Ortoño: correct. 699 01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:32,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung hindi na-report o nag-asos yung 125 million pagsapit ng December 31, 2022, bahagi o buo nito ay babalik sana sa Treasury. Tama ba? 700 01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:34,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. Yes. 701 01:50:42,380 --> 01:50:46,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hearing sa CGGPA noong November 25, 702 01:50:48,250 --> 01:50:59,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2024, inamin mo na ikaw ay pinagkakatiwalaan ng Vice Presidente. sa mga sensitive and confidential information. Tama ba? Naalala mo? 703 01:51:01,060 --> 01:51:06,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I cannot specifically remember if I said those words po in verbatim. 704 01:51:06,580 --> 01:51:23,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. We are furnishing you a copy of the transcript of stenographic notes of the CGGPA hearing dated November 25, 2024, specifically page 208, which 705 01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:32,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: is also flashed on the screen. Sinabi mo, and I quote, sa mga sensitibong bagay, end of quote. 706 01:51:44,450 --> 01:51:45,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's your question, counsel? 707 01:51:47,680 --> 01:51:49,380 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Do you confirm that, Mr. Ortoño? 708 01:51:53,630 --> 01:51:58,810 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I think the context for this, ma'am, is because the previous question 709 01:51:58,810 --> 01:52:04,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: was... Excuse me, Mr. Ortoño, I need to cut you because... That's 710 01:52:04,950 --> 01:52:04,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: why 711 01:52:04,970 --> 01:52:06,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I was asking, what was your question? 712 01:52:06,510 --> 01:52:08,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Because I also did not get the question. Kindly repeat your question, 713 01:52:09,070 --> 01:52:23,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: counsel. I was asking the witness whether or not He admitted during that hearing that the Vice President would entrust to him or would share with him mga sensitibong bagay. 714 01:52:24,620 --> 01:52:31,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am, but that is in the context of the previous question that my position is of trust and confidence. Yes, 715 01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:32,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: correct. 716 01:52:33,480 --> 01:52:42,720 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Although I said po na on sensitive matters, Of course, it is never absolute that all sensitive matters can be disclosed. 717 01:52:42,800 --> 01:53:09,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, we understand that, Mr. Ortoño. Okay, noong December, between December 20 and December 31, meron ba kayong narinig na threat of cataclysmic proportion? Ibig sabihin, meron ba kayong narinig na banta na masyadong mapaminsala na kailangan supoin sa loob lamang ng 11 days? Noong December 20? to December 31, 2022. 718 01:53:10,570 --> 01:53:17,500 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. Counsel? Question is vague, Your Honor, and no basis also. How 719 01:53:17,500 --> 01:53:18,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: can that be vague, Your 720 01:53:18,420 --> 01:53:29,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor? I presume it's threat against the Vice President. May alam po ba kayo na anong salita ulit yung ginamit mga attorney? May mapaminsala? 721 01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:35,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Threat of cataclysmic proportion or banta na masyadong mapaminsala. 722 01:53:35,800 --> 01:53:46,720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Bantang mapaminsala. Kakaibang banta. laban kay sa ikalawang Pangulo noong mga panahon yon na malapit sa petsang December 21 to 31. 723 01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:48,160 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If 724 01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:49,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you know, if you know of any. 725 01:53:49,540 --> 01:53:53,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Your Honor, I personally don't know of any information. 726 01:53:54,340 --> 01:54:12,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: By the way, just again to backtrack a bit, Mr. Ortoño, when you requested confidential funds in 2022, Kung alam ninyo, yung OVP po ba meron ng mga natukoy na banta laban sa Vice President noong panahong iyon? 727 01:54:13,720 --> 01:54:19,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, I cannot personally answer. Maybe that's a question that can be answered by the security group. 728 01:54:19,900 --> 01:54:28,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But as far as you're concerned, are you aware of any identified threats? against the vice president or the office during that time? 729 01:54:28,460 --> 01:54:34,800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he knows, counsel, attorney Christine, if he knows, if he does not, you may answer accordingly. I personally do not know of any. 730 01:54:36,180 --> 01:54:57,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And before you requested confidential funds from the DBM, would you know if the office of the vice president coordinated with any law enforcement agency for possible threats against the vice president or the office? Would you know? 731 01:54:57,260 --> 01:55:04,500 Lemuel G. Ortoño: In relation to possible threats to the Vice President, I would not have any information. 732 01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:05,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I would 733 01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:05,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: not have any information. 734 01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:39,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ibig sabihin mo ba, itong mga threats na to, hindi to kasama sa mga sinu-supervise mo na internal affairs or mga programa ng internal affairs ng Office of the Vice President. Dahil sinabi mo, ikaw nagsusupervise ng dalawang opisina, who in turn, or that in turn, oversees or monitors matters 735 01:55:41,030 --> 01:55:43,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: relating to the OVP. Your Honor, please. 736 01:55:44,260 --> 01:55:44,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine? 737 01:55:45,220 --> 01:55:48,540 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ask and answer, then complex, Your Honor, and also argumentative. 738 01:55:49,580 --> 01:55:50,060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's a 739 01:55:50,060 --> 01:55:58,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: bit compound, counsel. Reform a bit, counsel. The question is, long as well, the witness might not be able to respond adequately. Break it up a bit, counsel. 740 01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:09,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, Mr. Ortoño, you mentioned earlier that you are not aware of any coordination efforts with law enforcement agency at that time that you requested funds from the DBM. Tama ba? 741 01:56:09,850 --> 01:56:10,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, ma'am. Your 742 01:56:10,370 --> 01:56:11,770 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. 743 01:56:12,310 --> 01:56:13,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The question is misleading. 744 01:56:14,110 --> 01:56:18,550 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The witness said no information as to the supposed threats against the Vice President. 745 01:56:19,530 --> 01:56:21,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witnesses already answered, counsel. 746 01:56:23,260 --> 01:56:24,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney May. 747 01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:43,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. So nasabi mo wala kang alam ng coordination efforts. Ang sinasabi mo pa, Itong mga coordination efforts na ito, hindi ito sakop ng overseeing and supervising functions mo as Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff of the OVP. 748 01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:50,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: In relation to security matters, ma'am, no, that is not part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff. 749 01:56:50,200 --> 01:57:08,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, thank you. Now, pumunta na tayo sa accomplishment reports na sinabi mo kanina ay nakita mo in connection with your Preparation of the response as to the audit observation memorandum. Tama ba? 750 01:57:09,060 --> 01:57:09,920 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. You 751 01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:10,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: mentioned that. 752 01:57:18,790 --> 01:57:22,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I am referring to prosecutions 753 01:57:35,100 --> 01:57:41,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: exhibits P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-D. 754 01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:48,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: These are the accomplishment reports that you admitted seeing. 755 01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:50,300 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I was able to see them. 756 01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:55,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let's first go to the first three accomplishment reports. 757 01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:03,620 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: which are P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-C. You 758 01:58:07,970 --> 01:58:10,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: confirm that? Do you see that before you? 759 01:58:10,890 --> 01:58:11,310 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 760 01:58:11,570 --> 01:58:21,770 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Itong tatlong reports na ito, ang bawat report ay naglilista ng pare-parehong anim na kategorya sa pare-parehong pagkakasunod-sunod. Tama ba? 761 01:58:22,310 --> 01:58:22,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 762 01:58:23,410 --> 01:58:24,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: We 763 01:58:24,010 --> 01:58:41,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: have purchase of information, payment of reward, rental and maintenance of safe houses, purchase of supplies, medical and food aid, and incentives or traveling. Tama ba? That order? Yes. All three accomplishment reports? 764 01:58:42,020 --> 01:58:42,520 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 765 01:58:43,180 --> 01:58:50,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa bawat quarter, ang mga halagang iyon ay exact nung nagkakabuo ng 125 million. Tama ba? 766 01:58:51,080 --> 01:58:53,780 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document presented, yes. 767 01:58:55,550 --> 01:59:02,630 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm na sa bawat isa sa mga quarter na iyon, Walang halagang naisa uli. Tama ba? 768 01:59:03,620 --> 01:59:06,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the liquidation report, ma'am. 769 01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:07,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. 770 01:59:07,300 --> 01:59:07,940 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Now, 771 01:59:09,530 --> 01:59:18,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa 2022 report, ang safe house rental and maintenance, ang halaga ay 16 million pesos. Tama ba? 772 01:59:20,220 --> 01:59:22,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the report. 773 01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:33,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ganon din sa first quarter ng 2023. 16 million din ang halaga ng house. rental and maintenance, safe house rental and maintenance. Tama ba? 774 01:59:34,150 --> 01:59:35,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document, ma'am. 775 01:59:36,090 --> 01:59:44,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ganun din sa second quarter ng 2023. 16 million para sa safe house rental and maintenance. Exactong 16 million. 776 01:59:44,870 --> 01:59:45,710 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. 777 01:59:46,970 --> 01:59:59,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm, as you've already confirmed earlier, na ang 2022 report, ang saklaw na period nito ay 11 days. Tama ba? 778 02:00:00,240 --> 02:00:02,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: from December 21 to 31. 779 02:00:03,380 --> 02:00:18,130 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Samantalang ang sakop naman na period ng first quarter ng February 6, ng first quarter report ay February 6 to March 29, 2023. So that's 52 days. Tama ba? 780 02:00:18,290 --> 02:00:19,930 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am. 781 02:00:20,350 --> 02:00:28,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And the second quarter naman, ang saklaw na period nito ay April 25 to June 30 or 67 days. Tama ba? 782 02:00:29,390 --> 02:00:30,650 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document. 783 02:00:31,660 --> 02:00:40,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Gayunpaman, magkakapareho ang halaga ng safe house rental at maintenance sa tatlong reports na iyon. Tama ba? Yes, 784 02:00:40,680 --> 02:00:42,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: based on the report. 785 02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:58,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So in short, 16 million pesos para sa safe house para sa labing isang araw, para sa 52 786 02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:05,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: days, at para sa 67 days. Pare-parehong 16 million ang halaga. 787 02:01:06,090 --> 02:01:08,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am. Yes. 788 02:01:11,770 --> 02:01:19,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The same is true, Mr. Ortoño, for incentives and traveling. Yung line item na yan na makikita sa accomplishment report. Tama ba? 789 02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:27,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: It's the same 10 million pesos for all those three quarters. 790 02:01:27,500 --> 02:01:28,860 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document. 791 02:01:30,070 --> 02:01:45,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm that based on those documents, for the 2022 report, it covers or it claimed to have covered 132 areas in 11 days. Tama ba? 792 02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:47,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry again, ma'am, for 20... 793 02:01:47,240 --> 02:02:02,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2022, the first report. Yes, ma'am. It's 132 areas for 11 days. So first quarter naman of 2023, it claims 127 areas in 52 days. 794 02:02:02,860 --> 02:02:05,680 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the report, ma'am. And 795 02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:10,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: for the second quarter, it's 111 areas in 67 days. Tama ba? 796 02:02:11,250 --> 02:02:12,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the report. 797 02:02:12,670 --> 02:02:17,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Based on the report. And for the third quarter, it's 798 02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:22,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 122 areas in 79 days, correct? 799 02:02:24,250 --> 02:02:25,690 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct, ma'am. 800 02:02:26,740 --> 02:02:41,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, ibig sabihin ito, yung shortest period pa, ang pinakamaikling panahon, ang nagbunga ng pinakamaraming lugar, which is 132 days. Tama ba? Based on the document. 801 02:02:42,310 --> 02:02:44,310 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am. Yes. 802 02:02:46,670 --> 02:02:54,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero, yung halaga, ay hindi nagbago. Remained 10 million pesos. Tama ba? 803 02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:55,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 804 02:02:56,020 --> 02:02:56,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, 805 02:02:57,960 --> 02:02:58,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. 806 02:02:58,800 --> 02:03:01,940 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Argumentative, Your Honor. Ang mahalaga, hindi nagbago na 10 million 807 02:03:01,940 --> 02:03:15,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: pesos. Your Honor, the counsel may have misheard what I said. I was referring to halaga, Your Honor. And in any event, Your Honor, it's not argumentative. I am eliciting a matter of fact from this witness. 808 02:03:16,220 --> 02:03:19,400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer, counsel. We're a few minutes before lunch, Atty. Christine. 809 02:03:21,130 --> 02:03:22,890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Based on the document presented, 810 02:03:23,150 --> 02:03:23,950 Lemuel G. Ortoño: ma'am. The 811 02:03:23,950 --> 02:03:24,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: amount did not change. 812 02:03:25,130 --> 02:03:25,850 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's how it 813 02:03:25,850 --> 02:03:26,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: remained. 814 02:03:26,470 --> 02:03:26,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 815 02:03:27,170 --> 02:03:31,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 10 million pesos regardless of the number of areas covered. 816 02:03:31,550 --> 02:03:33,010 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document. 817 02:03:38,970 --> 02:03:54,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also confirm from those documents that for the first three reports, meaning the 2022 report, and the reports for the first two quarters of 2023 may 818 02:03:56,480 --> 02:04:01,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: line item or provision for medical and food aid. Correct? 819 02:04:03,480 --> 02:04:09,760 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. Nagkakahalaga ng 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million respectively. Tama ba? 820 02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:10,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 821 02:04:12,750 --> 02:04:30,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Itong mga accomplishment reports, you will agree and you will admit na ito ay isinumite sa COA bago pa nakatanggap ang OVP ng audit observation memorandum. Tama ba? 822 02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:38,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If based on the submission dates, ma'am, yes. 823 02:04:38,660 --> 02:04:55,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. And you will also confirm that the OVP received the first memorandum which is audit observation memorandum number 2023-213 only 824 02:04:58,070 --> 02:05:01,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: on October 4. 2023. Tama ba? 825 02:05:01,190 --> 02:05:01,570 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 826 02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:20,620 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And five days later, kayo naman ang OVP nagsubmit ng last report or the third quarter of 2023 which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-7-D which is already before you, Mr. Ortoño. Tama ba? 827 02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:25,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: The third quarter accomplishment report. 828 02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:30,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, you submitted that. on October 9, 2020. Based 829 02:05:30,650 --> 02:05:32,550 Lemuel G. Ortoño: on the submitted report. 830 02:05:32,830 --> 02:05:41,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, so that was five days after you received the first audit observation memoranda from the COA. Tama. 831 02:05:43,830 --> 02:05:56,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And if you will check and if you will confirm, dyan sa last accomplishment report na yan, wala na yung line item for medical and food aid. Tama ba? 832 02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:00,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 833 02:06:03,450 --> 02:06:04,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero, 834 02:06:06,770 --> 02:06:19,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang kabuuhan pa rin ng fund ay 125 million pesos. Ang kabuuhan ng confidential fund na nagastos ay ganun pa rin, 125 million pesos. 835 02:06:20,350 --> 02:06:22,330 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document, ma'am. 836 02:06:23,210 --> 02:06:40,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yung dating 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million na amount, hinati-hati ito sa iba't ibang line item. Tama ba? Merong nilagay. sa provision ng rewards. Tama ba? Your 837 02:06:40,250 --> 02:06:40,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, 838 02:06:40,510 --> 02:06:40,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please. 839 02:06:42,550 --> 02:06:42,990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel? 840 02:06:43,870 --> 02:06:48,610 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Witness is incompetent to testify on that because he did not prepare the accomplishment report. 841 02:06:49,270 --> 02:06:56,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If he knows, counsel, based on the documents, if he knows, kung alam niyo po, Mr. Ortonio, maaari niyo pong sagutin. Thank you, Your 842 02:06:56,670 --> 02:06:56,870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. 843 02:06:56,950 --> 02:06:57,210 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sabihin 844 02:06:57,210 --> 02:06:57,370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: niyo ang 845 02:06:57,370 --> 02:06:57,810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hindi niyo alam. 846 02:06:58,070 --> 02:07:05,010 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I would not know, ma'am, if hinati-hati, ma'am, because I did not prepare the document. 847 02:07:06,660 --> 02:07:20,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But you would... Confirm na kahit nawala yung line item na yun na supposedly 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million, the amount stayed 125 million. Your Honor, 848 02:07:20,970 --> 02:07:21,930 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. 849 02:07:23,680 --> 02:07:25,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Same ruling, same objection. 850 02:07:26,360 --> 02:07:27,300 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ask and answered already. 851 02:07:27,740 --> 02:07:49,600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Same ruling, same objection. Please continue counsel, move on. And by the way, Attorney May, choose the best time when you want to pause para hindi ka bitin sa direct examination mo. Not to exceed 12.15 so that we can all go on a lunch break. But you choose the best time when you want to pause. Until 12.15, counsel. Or before that time. 852 02:07:49,960 --> 02:07:50,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. 853 02:07:50,660 --> 02:07:51,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed, counsel. 854 02:07:51,300 --> 02:08:16,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So there was a question left hanging, Your Honor. I was asking the witness. Since nawala yung light item na medical and food aid, subalit naging pareho pa rin. Ang amount, ang total amount, ang total halaga, which is 125 million, yung corresponding amount of 40, 42 million, 40 million for the medical food aid, that must have been assigned to other line items, correct? 855 02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:29,420 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I cannot confirm on that, ma'am. But you do confirm the total is still the same? I can confirm, sir, that based on the document, the total amount is still the same. And 856 02:08:29,420 --> 02:08:37,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that they're all the same, Mr. Ortoño? Yes. For the last quarter of 2022 and the first three quarters of 2023, they're all 125. 857 02:08:37,870 --> 02:08:38,970 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct, 858 02:08:39,130 --> 02:08:40,770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Move on, counsel. 859 02:08:44,690 --> 02:09:00,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm, if you would compare those four accomplishment reports, for the first time in the accomplishment report for the third quarter of 2023, lumabas ang inilat, 860 02:09:03,020 --> 02:09:14,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sorry, sa unang pagkakataon, ang bawat item, ay inilarawan bilang kaugnayan sa Areas of Engagement of the Office of the Vice President. Tama ba? 861 02:09:15,310 --> 02:09:15,850 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yung 862 02:09:15,850 --> 02:09:25,350 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: phrase na Areas of Engagement of the Office of the Vice President, makikita mo lamang yan for the first time in the third accomplishment report. Tama ba? 863 02:09:29,110 --> 02:09:33,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry, fourth accomplishment report referring to the third quarter of 2023. 864 02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:38,130 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Areas of Engagement of 865 02:09:38,130 --> 02:09:39,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the Office of the Vice President. 866 02:09:41,580 --> 02:09:45,480 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry, ma'am. Okay, for item D. 867 02:09:48,030 --> 02:09:49,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document, ma'am. 868 02:09:56,050 --> 02:09:59,810 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, we can rest for now, Your Honor, and have our lunch. It's a 869 02:09:59,810 --> 02:09:59,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: good 870 02:09:59,870 --> 02:10:06,090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: point to pause, counsel, and continue with your direct examination when we reconvene after lunch. 871 02:10:06,570 --> 02:10:07,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. 872 02:10:08,390 --> 02:10:21,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We shall go on a lunch recess and shall reconvene at 12.45 for the suggestion of the Senate President. We are on recess until 12.45. 873 02:53:07,540 --> 02:53:10,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly situate Mr. Ortonio in the witness 874 02:53:10,840 --> 02:53:12,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: stand. 875 02:53:30,360 --> 02:53:38,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ginong Ortonio, patuloy po kayong tetestigo sa ilalim ng parehong sinumpaan ninyo kaninang umaga. 876 02:53:38,960 --> 02:53:41,340 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Nauunawa niyo po yan? Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor. 877 02:53:41,780 --> 02:53:47,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you very much. Nakakain na po kayo? Hindi pa po. Bakit di ka kumain? 878 02:53:47,340 --> 02:53:48,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Later na lang po. 879 02:53:48,900 --> 02:53:51,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May ganun? Ay, eh? 880 02:53:55,410 --> 02:54:03,130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyway, Attorney May, your witness. You may continue with your direct examination when you're ready. Likewise, the... 881 02:54:03,740 --> 02:54:05,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, 882 02:54:05,970 --> 02:54:07,190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine, you want to say something? Your Honor, 883 02:54:07,190 --> 02:54:09,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please, yes. Just a quick manifestation, Your 884 02:54:09,390 --> 02:54:10,290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. Yes, Attorney May. 885 02:54:10,990 --> 02:54:31,750 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We know that the witness has been interpreting documents, Your Honor, which he did not participate in the drafting and preparation of. So, We don't dispute the contents of those documents, Your Honor. In fact, we can stipulate on the amounts. 886 02:54:33,430 --> 02:54:57,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We already stipulated actually on the amounts and the signature, Your Honor. So, may we inquire if that's the line of questioning that the council would follow? Because if the questioning... Yeah, if the questioning would refer to the amounts, to the number of days, etc., just to abbreviate the proceedings, we can stipulate on those, Your Honor. 887 02:54:58,120 --> 02:55:38,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think in relation to her offer, counsel, which she will not, I'm sure, be willing to stipulate, counsel for the prosecution wants to establish that, as she stated in her offer, that the explanations for the expenses in relation to confidential funds, she used the word sham, that they were prepared before, they even requested for it, and that it's almost all the same, involving the same amounts, and consumed the entire amount, which I'm sure you're not willing to stipulate at this point, counsel. 888 02:55:39,250 --> 02:55:42,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: We're not going to stipulate on that, Your Honor. Even if 889 02:55:42,310 --> 02:55:44,270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I were in your position, I won't. Yes, 890 02:55:44,490 --> 02:56:04,670 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor. But just to put it on record, Your Honor, the witness already stated that he had no participation in the execution of certain documents like the PFP and the accomplishment reports. And yet, he has been questioned about those documents including his interpretation thereof. So, Your 891 02:56:04,670 --> 02:56:33,440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. During the lull, if I may counsel, during the lull, some senator-judges were also discussing and talking. I think most, if not all, attorney may get the point that you have been trying to drive at in relation to the liquidation report, the PFP, with the exception of the disbursement voucher that Mr. Ortonio signed. 892 02:56:35,690 --> 02:57:38,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that while he is aware of them, he had no part in its preparation. And indeed, you have been using this witness to read some of the contents of the documents. Albeit, the document should speak for itself, but we do get that point. Kindly proceed to the other purposes of your offer. I believe there are about two or three more that you have not yet established through this witness. Because insofar as that is concerned, I think the senator-judges get the point that you're driving at. You want to prove through this witness and the documents supposedly that the items in the liquidation report are almost the same with some variations, that the amounts are almost the same, that the totals are the same with some variations as well, and that the plan was prepared on dates before they made the request. Even the 11-day period, I think, the court has already taken notice of that as well, even from the previous witnesses' testimony. 893 02:57:39,190 --> 02:57:42,590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, kindly proceed, counsel, and you 894 02:57:42,850 --> 02:57:52,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: don't have to skip that part, but kindly abbreviate that part and move on to your other offers that you wish to establish through this witness. Your witness, Ms. Attorney May. 895 02:57:53,450 --> 02:57:54,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Your Honor. 896 02:57:57,940 --> 02:57:59,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Good afternoon again, Mr. Ortonio. 897 02:58:00,920 --> 02:58:01,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Earlier, 898 02:58:09,670 --> 02:58:17,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: you admitted that in 2022, your request for confidential funds was for 250 million, correct? 899 02:58:18,150 --> 02:58:19,930 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, for 250 million. 900 02:58:20,250 --> 02:58:25,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But eventually, the amount given was only 125 million, correct? 901 02:58:25,990 --> 02:58:26,610 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 902 02:58:26,950 --> 02:58:39,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And yet, in the 2022 accomplishment report, what is reported is that there was still 100% implementation of activities. Tama ho ba? 903 02:58:39,930 --> 02:58:41,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If we will be... 904 02:58:43,140 --> 02:58:44,080 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 905 02:58:47,170 --> 02:58:48,210 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 906 02:58:48,690 --> 02:58:49,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm sorry, counsel. 907 02:58:50,050 --> 02:58:52,510 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can the witness be shown the document, Your Honor? 908 02:58:52,750 --> 02:59:01,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Assisting counsels have been given continuing authority to so approach and show the witness the documents in order to confront the witness with the document. 909 02:59:06,800 --> 02:59:08,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry again, ma'am, the question, ma'am. 910 02:59:09,240 --> 02:59:19,990 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You reported in that accomplishment report for 2022, inulat niyo na 100% pa rin ang implementation ng projects. Tama ba? 911 02:59:20,430 --> 02:59:26,870 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the utilization that was submitted and prepared, ma'am, it indicated 100% implementation. 912 02:59:28,120 --> 02:59:38,760 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ibig sabihin, Mr. Ortoño, tama ba na there was full implementation of the project gamit ang kalahati ng budget na inyong hiningi? Tama ba? 913 02:59:39,260 --> 02:59:41,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry, again, ma'am. There 914 02:59:41,180 --> 02:59:47,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: was still full implementation of the activities for half the budget that you requested. 915 02:59:49,220 --> 02:59:56,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, if... Based on the document, ma'am, 100% for the 125. Okay. 916 02:59:57,970 --> 03:00:20,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sige. Punta na tayo ngayon. sa replies to the AOM. Ngayon, sumagot ka. Ikaw mismo sumagot sa AOM number 2023-211 dated September 14, 2023. Tama ba? For 917 03:00:21,400 --> 03:00:26,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: September 14, 2023 and October 3, 918 03:00:26,520 --> 03:00:43,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2023. Tama. Okay. Pero, you will confirm, na yung mga AOMs na iyon, addressed kay respondent vice president, attention kay Ms. Acosta at Ms. Villa del Rey. Tama ba? 919 03:00:43,590 --> 03:00:44,730 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 920 03:00:44,730 --> 03:00:50,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, hindi naka-address sa iyo ang mga AOMs na sinagot mo. Tama ba? 921 03:00:50,670 --> 03:00:51,630 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 922 03:00:52,440 --> 03:01:07,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Noong hearing, noong November 25, 2024, sinabi mo na wala kang personal na kaalaman sa aktwal na paggastos ng confidential funds ng OVP. Tama ba? 923 03:01:08,200 --> 03:01:09,580 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. That's correct. 924 03:01:09,820 --> 03:01:14,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At sa pagkakaalam mo, alam din to ng Vice President. Tama ba? 925 03:01:15,850 --> 03:01:19,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Alam ng Vice President, ma'am, that I do not know of anything. 926 03:01:19,450 --> 03:01:28,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Or that you do not have any personal participation, as you claim, doon sa paggastos ng confidential funds. 927 03:01:28,850 --> 03:01:29,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. 928 03:01:30,590 --> 03:01:40,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon pa man, ikaw ang tinalaga ng vice president na tumugon sa mga audit observation memoranda na bananggit mo. Tama ba? 929 03:01:40,620 --> 03:01:48,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. For audit observations, ma'am, it's usually either the assistant chief of staff or the chief of staff who responds on behalf of the agency. 930 03:01:50,290 --> 03:01:56,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Regardless kung may kaalaman, ang chief of staff at assistant chief of staff, yan ang sinasabi mo? 931 03:01:56,490 --> 03:01:59,070 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As representative of the organization, ma'am. 932 03:02:04,560 --> 03:02:21,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, ipapakita sa iyo Ang mga sulat ng OVP sa COA na may petsang October 19, 2023, November 30, 2023, April 19, 2024, August 27, 2024. 933 03:02:23,680 --> 03:02:30,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ito ang mga naging tugon mo sa lahat ng Audit Observation Memoranda ng Commission on Audit. Tama ba? 934 03:02:39,440 --> 03:02:46,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Just note, ma'am, that for the three other documents, ma'am. I'm just one of the signatories, 935 03:02:46,920 --> 03:02:50,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ma'am. Yes. But a signatory nonetheless. Yes. 936 03:02:52,080 --> 03:03:14,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, sa mga AOMs na in-issue ng COA sa liquidation ng OVP para sa lahat ng quarters na iyong sinagot, pinunan ito ang mga PFP na isinumite ng OVP dahil hindi nakasaad ang tiyak na confidential activity na paggagamitan ng confidential funds. Tama ba? 937 03:03:15,260 --> 03:03:16,820 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the AOM, ma'am. 938 03:03:16,960 --> 03:03:40,110 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At sa inyo namang sulat to the COA, yung mga sulat na you were confronted with, ipinagtanggol niyo itong PFP na ito. Tama ba? Sinabi niyo na, and I quote, there's no specific guideline on the details of confidential activities to be indicated. 939 03:03:42,490 --> 03:03:45,870 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Based on the 940 03:03:47,690 --> 03:03:50,130 Lemuel G. Ortoño: based on the annexes of the JC. Okay. 941 03:03:50,210 --> 03:04:26,650 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, you mentioned the joint circular. Now, Mr. Ortonio, may I invite you to Article 4.2 of the joint circular which states, and I quote, all allocations of confidential funds and or intelligence funds shall be supported with a physical and financial plan indicating the proposed amount allocated for each program, activity, and project where disbursements pertaining to confidential expenses and intelligence expenses shall be based. End of quote. 942 03:04:30,710 --> 03:04:33,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry, ma'am. What provision again, ma'am? 943 03:04:33,650 --> 03:04:34,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 4.2. 944 03:04:34,410 --> 03:04:35,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: 4.2. 945 03:04:42,510 --> 03:04:44,560 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Okay, ma'am. Yes. 946 03:04:47,790 --> 03:05:09,810 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At inaamin mo na gulad ng pag-aamin mo kanina, yung mga PFP na ito na inyong sinumite, tanging ang isinasaad lamang. ay yung mga umbrella programs na good governance program and socio-economic delivery programs. Tama ba? 947 03:05:09,910 --> 03:05:12,490 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the documents that was prepared, ma'am, it 948 03:05:12,490 --> 03:05:12,910 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: only 949 03:05:12,910 --> 03:05:16,110 Lemuel G. Ortoño: indicated the umbrella programs. Ngunit 950 03:05:16,110 --> 03:05:27,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: inamin nyo na rin na ang dalawang ito ay mga pawang umbrella programs lamang at may kanya-kanyang individual programs sa ilalim nito. Tama ba? 951 03:05:28,080 --> 03:05:38,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, for the programs, ma'am, that was indicated, I can say, ma'am, that there are specific programs based on the regular funding. But as to the activity... That 952 03:05:38,900 --> 03:05:54,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: is not the question, Mr. Ortoño. Ang tinatanong ko lamang sa inyo, yung dalawang programs na to, yung umbrella programs na to, dahil sila ay umbrella programs lamang, meron tong mga particular programs under these umbrella programs. Correct? 953 03:05:55,060 --> 03:06:02,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, if we are talking about the regular budget, ma'am. Yes, there are specific activities under those programs. 954 03:06:03,160 --> 03:06:13,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And even, you would confirm, ikaw din ang nag-submit sa COA ng mga protective intelligence 955 03:06:15,800 --> 03:06:17,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: operations reports, tama ba? 956 03:06:18,560 --> 03:06:19,360 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Again, ma'am? 957 03:06:19,860 --> 03:06:24,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Protective intelligence operations reports, or yung mga P.I.O.R.s, di ba? 958 03:06:24,910 --> 03:06:34,310 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As the liason, I am the designated liaison officer for the confidential funds, ma'am. And yes, I submitted documents, ma'am, in a sealed envelope, ma'am. 959 03:06:35,290 --> 03:06:44,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: When you say documents, those documents include the P.I.O.R.s, tama ba? Kasama doon sa sinubmit mo yung mga P.I.O.R.s, tama ba? 960 03:06:44,830 --> 03:06:49,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am, as an attachment to the response to the AOM. 961 03:06:50,840 --> 03:06:51,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, 962 03:06:55,720 --> 03:07:00,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And I would assume, binasa mo rin ito, mga P.I.O.R.s na ito, bago mo ito sinumite? 963 03:07:00,960 --> 03:07:12,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Unfortunately, ma'am, I was not able to read the reports, ma'am, because these are sealed already, ma'am. I submitted the documents only, ma'am, to the COA. 964 03:07:12,980 --> 03:07:30,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Tinanong mo rin ba, sinabi mo kanina, na kinikipag-coordinate ka kay La Chica, or sorry, sa security officer? at sa special dispersing officer. Tama ba? Yes. Tinanong mo ba sa kanila kung ano ang nilalaman ng PIORs na ito? 965 03:07:31,440 --> 03:07:33,440 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No, I did not anymore ask, ma'am. 966 03:07:33,480 --> 03:07:33,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 967 03:07:46,130 --> 03:07:57,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, dun sa AOMs din na iyong sinagot, pinuna din ng Commission on Audit yung line item na medical and food aid. Tama ba? 968 03:07:58,470 --> 03:07:58,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 969 03:08:01,470 --> 03:08:01,910 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At... 970 03:08:05,980 --> 03:08:18,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi ng COA sa kanilang audit observation memoranda ng line item na ito ay hindi allowable sa gustusin ng confidential funds sa ilalim ng Joint Circular. Tama ba? 971 03:08:18,490 --> 03:08:19,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the AOM, ma'am, 972 03:08:19,910 --> 03:08:23,710 Lemuel G. Ortoño: and we were able to send our reply to this issue or concern. 973 03:08:24,070 --> 03:08:38,710 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you justified the inclusion of that line item. Pinagtanggol niyo dun sa sagot niyo sa AOMs, pinagtanggol niyo yung pagsama ng line item na ito. sa inyong accomplishment reports. Tama ba? 974 03:08:38,810 --> 03:08:41,770 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, we were able to explain it through our reply. 975 03:08:42,810 --> 03:08:54,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi ninyo na pinapayagin ito sa ilalim ng 4.8.4 na sumasaklaw sa purchase or rental of supplies, materials, and equipment for confidential operations. Tama ba? 976 03:08:54,770 --> 03:08:55,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 977 03:09:04,600 --> 03:09:28,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm na itong pera, supposedly for the purchase of rentals of supplies, materials, and equipment for confidential operations. Hindi kayo gumastos. Ibig sabihin, yung supposed supplies, materials and equipment, hindi ang OVP ang bumili nito. Tama ba? 978 03:09:29,060 --> 03:09:41,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the information that was provided to me by the security officer, payments were made directly to the informants or the agents. At 979 03:09:41,100 --> 03:10:06,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: tama rin kung kumpirmahin mo rin ba? na wala kang nakita kahit anumang official receipt sa pagbili ng kahit alin dito sa mga tinutukoy na supplies na to. Unahin natin sa medicine. Wala kang nakita kahit anong official receipt mula sa kahit alinmang drugstore, pharmacy, o supplier. Tama ba? I 980 03:10:06,970 --> 03:10:09,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: was not able to see, ma'am, any ORs. 981 03:10:09,210 --> 03:10:09,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 982 03:10:12,550 --> 03:10:37,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also agree na Sa pangkalahatan, ang pagbili ng gamot at pagkain ay ginagawa sa regular na proseso, pang-araw-araw. Ibig sabihin, bibili mula sa sources like drugstores, pharmacy, at ang yung bumibili naman ay isyuhan ng karampatang official use. Tama ba? 983 03:10:44,140 --> 03:10:46,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Purchase. The usual 984 03:10:46,000 --> 03:10:47,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: purchase. Yes, if 985 03:10:47,520 --> 03:10:48,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: it's for 986 03:10:48,160 --> 03:10:53,480 Lemuel G. Ortoño: the usual purchase, yes, bibili ka and then you are given a receipt. 987 03:10:55,090 --> 03:11:10,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At hindi mo na tinanong si Ms. Acosta at ang security officer na iyong nabanggit kung nasaan ang supposed official receipts bilang patunay na ito nga ay nabili. Mga supplies na ito. 988 03:11:11,150 --> 03:11:39,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, the explanation that was provided to me, ma'am, was that binigay po ang pera directly doon sa mga informants and agents and the informants and agents na po yung bumili ng mga medical and food supplies. So, it's the acknowledgement receipt which is the proof of the release of the funds to the informants or the agents. 989 03:11:40,110 --> 03:11:51,770 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, ang sinasabi mo, kahit si Ginang Acosta at ang special disbursing officer, walang nahawakan kahit isa mang official receipt para sa supposed purchases na ito. 990 03:11:52,030 --> 03:12:01,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, as to the exactness, ma'am, kung may meron ba silang nahawakan na official receipt, that I cannot provide an answer. 991 03:12:01,570 --> 03:12:14,510 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But at the end of the day, wala silang binigay sa'yo. Pina-explain mo sila, pero wala pa rin silang binigay na official receipt. Kahit anong official receipt for any of these supposed purchases. 992 03:12:15,150 --> 03:12:22,210 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Wala po silang nabigay ng official receipts, ma'am, but there were acknowledgement receipts, ma'am, that were provided. 993 03:12:30,310 --> 03:12:42,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also confirm na yung OVP, halinsunod sa mga proyekto nito, ginagawa naman ito na bumili ng mga medisina, tama ba? 994 03:12:45,130 --> 03:12:45,810 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, we 995 03:12:45,810 --> 03:12:46,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: do have our 996 03:12:46,570 --> 03:12:51,500 Lemuel G. Ortoño: funding for purchase of supplies. 997 03:12:51,700 --> 03:13:07,760 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, sa item 1, noong sulat, dated August 22, 2022, humingi kayo ng 144.72 million in regular funds for the OVP's medical assistance program. Tama ba? 998 03:13:07,980 --> 03:13:13,640 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's for the medical and burial assistance, ma'am, but that is for the regular activities of the office. 999 03:13:14,040 --> 03:13:31,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At, Nung binili niya yun, in fact, dun sa letter niyo dated August 22, 2022, may nilaki pa kayo na lingguhang accounting ng mga binipesyaryo ng halaga na inyong hinihingi. For the 1000 03:13:31,960 --> 03:13:32,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: projection, ma'am. 1001 03:13:33,120 --> 03:13:34,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, for the projection. 1002 03:13:42,270 --> 03:14:01,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yung letter niyo din noong September 19, 2021, kahit yun, may kinakalakit na transmittal na the submitted computation and forecasting which says, and I quote, the submitted computation and forecasting the requirement for medical assistance. Tama ba? 1003 03:14:02,200 --> 03:14:08,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. But again, ma'am, that is for the regular activities of the office, for the medical and burial program. 1004 03:14:09,280 --> 03:14:23,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. In short, Mr. Ortonio, maaari sana na ang OVP sa pamamagitan ng SDO ang bumili ng mga gamot at ibigay na lamang ito sa mga umano'y informants. Tama ba? Your Honor, 1005 03:14:23,900 --> 03:14:24,140 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. 1006 03:14:26,020 --> 03:14:49,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Consul? Speculative, Your Honor. Your Honor, just because the question is premised or couched as an if question doesn't mean it's automatically speculative. It only becomes speculative, Your Honor, if it requires the witness to make a conjecture without reference to any prior admitted facts, Your Honor. Your Honor, 1007 03:14:49,610 --> 03:14:49,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please. 1008 03:14:50,030 --> 03:14:50,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: With 1009 03:14:50,550 --> 03:15:00,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the permission of Consuls, I see the Is there a point, Atty. Christine, but, Mr. Ortoño, pwede 1010 03:15:03,500 --> 03:15:10,070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: din bang, may binigyan kayo ng medicine, di ba, sa regular budget ng OVP? 1011 03:15:10,330 --> 03:15:14,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes po, we do have our medical and burial program. At 1012 03:15:14,470 --> 03:15:19,150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yung binibigyan nyo ng medicine at burial program, kasya? 1013 03:15:20,350 --> 03:15:37,560 Lemuel G. Ortoño: What we do po at that time is that binibili po namin yung medicine sa partner pharmacies of the OVP and then we release it to the clients who approach the office for medical assistance. In the form of medicine na? In the form of medicine. 1014 03:15:37,740 --> 03:15:40,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So I presume itong binibili niyo gamit yung regular budget, may resibo to? 1015 03:15:41,480 --> 03:15:42,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, sir. 1016 03:15:42,740 --> 03:15:53,960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ang ginamit niyo na pang food and medicines sa confidential fund, binigay niyong diretso sa recipient and presumably sabi ng recipient, bibili ko ng pagkain to. Bibili ko na kami to. 1017 03:15:54,350 --> 03:16:13,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the information, Your Honor, provided by the security officer, that's how it was... Ganun yung procedure on how the medical and food aid was... So walang resibo yan? Based on the information I gathered, Sir, no official receipts was... 1018 03:16:13,430 --> 03:16:19,050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nakalagay ba sa acknowledgement receipt kung for food or for medicine yan o kayo na lang yung nagtali na ito food, ito medicine? 1019 03:16:19,390 --> 03:16:24,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sir, unfortunately, Sir, for the acknowledgement receipts, I was not able to 1020 03:16:35,850 --> 03:16:40,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung chairs, wala ring resibo yan? 1021 03:16:54,650 --> 03:16:58,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yun yung ipamimili nila for the tables and chairs. So 1022 03:16:58,910 --> 03:17:10,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: what you're saying is, binigay din yung pera sa informant, quote-unquote, that's your wording, para bumili siya ang bibili ng chairs at yun yung bayad sa kanya, quote-unquote. That's 1023 03:17:10,650 --> 03:17:13,710 Lemuel G. Ortoño: based on the information provided by the security officer. 1024 03:17:15,150 --> 03:17:28,930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just one final question, Mr. Donald. So literally, may informant, imbis na bigyan na kung ano, Binayaran ng cash para bilid yung tables, yung chairs, yung food, yung medicine. Ganun. 1025 03:17:29,250 --> 03:17:35,060 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, sir. Based on the information provided, sir. By the security officer. By the 1026 03:17:35,060 --> 03:17:42,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: security officer. At that's the, yung kwento na binigay sa'yo. That's based, yes, that's based on the information that was provided by the 1027 03:17:42,220 --> 03:17:42,540 Lemuel G. Ortoño: security officer. 1028 03:17:42,540 --> 03:17:49,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At hiwalay pa yun sa pinapamigay niyo na food and medical assistance sa regular budget ng OVP. 1029 03:17:50,020 --> 03:17:54,820 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's for the regular clients that we yung public na mga clients. When 1030 03:17:54,820 --> 03:17:57,680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you say clients, not informants. Yes, sir. 1031 03:17:57,780 --> 03:17:58,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, sir. 1032 03:17:58,840 --> 03:18:03,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Parukyano. Yung regular na nagpupunta o humihingi ng tulong o dumudulog. Yes, 1033 03:18:04,240 --> 03:18:05,100 Lemuel G. Ortoño: that's correct, Your Honor. 1034 03:18:05,360 --> 03:18:05,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Witness, 1035 03:18:06,080 --> 03:18:06,320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. 1036 03:18:06,880 --> 03:18:07,340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I 1037 03:18:07,340 --> 03:18:14,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hope it gave you the opportunity to take some of the throat meds that some of the senator-judges sent you. 1038 03:18:17,550 --> 03:18:22,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And I hope you can drink some warm water, counsel. You may continue, Counsel. 1039 03:18:23,060 --> 03:18:26,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. In a bit, I will be asking for time to take my salabat with me, Your Honor. 1040 03:18:26,960 --> 03:18:28,260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Counsel. You may. 1041 03:18:28,480 --> 03:18:32,540 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But in the meantime, Your Honor, I'll proceed with my examination. 1042 03:18:36,500 --> 03:18:36,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 1043 03:18:37,480 --> 03:19:20,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Going back to the Audit Observation Memoranda na kanina in-identify mo na galing sa COA. Dito sa Audit Observation Memoranda na ito, particularly Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-12-A, and P-I-12-B and P-I-12-E. Dito sa tatlong AOMs na to, flagged din ng Commission on Audit or pinuna na rin ng Commission on Audit yung payment of incentives or traveling sa mga accomplishment reports. Ayon sa COA, hindi rin ito allowable na gastusin ng confidential funds sa ilalim ng Joint Circular. Tama ba? 1044 03:19:20,770 --> 03:19:25,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's what the AOM indicated and we were able to send a reply as well. 1045 03:19:25,370 --> 03:19:39,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And in your reply, you said it is justified under 4.8.2 ng Joint Circular bilang rental of transport vehicle related to confidential activities. Tama ba? 1046 03:19:39,770 --> 03:19:40,630 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 1047 03:19:41,330 --> 03:19:54,240 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yung salitang incentives, you will admit and you will agree na hindi ito mag-a-appear sa Joint Circular. Ito ay sa inyong sariling piniling salita. Tama ba? 1048 03:19:54,300 --> 03:19:54,920 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sorry again. 1049 03:19:55,500 --> 03:20:08,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The word incentive, hindi mo ito makikita sa Joint Circular. In fact, itong salita na ito, kayo lang ang gumamit nito. Kumbaga, kayo ang pumili ng salitang ito na ilalagay sa Accomplishment Report. 1050 03:20:09,180 --> 03:20:12,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the JC, that's not included. 1051 03:20:13,680 --> 03:20:28,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Based on the JC, yung salitang incentives hindi lumalabas sa kahit anumang enumeration ng item 4.8. ng mga allowable confidential expenses. Tama ba? 1052 03:20:29,460 --> 03:20:32,180 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the JC, no, it does not appear. 1053 03:20:33,280 --> 03:20:51,140 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngayon, nang mapuna ito ng COA sa AOM for the third quarter of 2023, saka lamang naging transportation expenses ang mga halaga na supposedly nakalaan for the supposed incentives. Tama ba? 1054 03:20:53,100 --> 03:21:04,220 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the report that was shown to me earlier, yes. But again, I would not have any idea on the preparation of the utilization report. 1055 03:21:04,360 --> 03:21:04,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In fact, 1056 03:21:08,070 --> 03:21:28,770 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa sagot nyo, sa AOM, you invoked 4.8.2, which refers to rental of transport vehicle. At sa inyo namang sagot, sa notice of suspension, ang ininvoke nyo naman, Ginamit niyo ang salitang van rentals and tracking services, correct? 1057 03:21:29,410 --> 03:21:30,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 1058 03:21:32,570 --> 03:21:33,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And 1059 03:21:33,070 --> 03:21:44,210 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: what is more, sa sagot niyo sa notice of suspension, you confirmed and I quote, the OVP did not make any payment for incentives, correct? 1060 03:21:45,150 --> 03:21:49,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the reply that we provided, yes, we confirmed. 1061 03:21:51,490 --> 03:22:13,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Also, Mr. Antonio, you will confirm na in the course, of your preparation sa kurso ng pagpaprepare mo sa reply ng AOM na to. Hanggang maging sa ngayon, wala kang nakita na kahit anong kontrata sa pagrenta ng sasakyan sa buong records ng OVP. Tama ba? 1062 03:22:14,120 --> 03:22:17,580 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I do not have any document po. 1063 03:22:24,410 --> 03:22:49,750 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, let's go to the certifications dated October 19, 2023, April 19, 2024. and August 27, 2024, which are prosecution's exhibit P-I-12-M, P-I-12-G, and P-I-12-K. 1064 03:22:52,440 --> 03:22:57,990 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ikaw ang nagsumite ng mga certifications nito sa 1065 03:22:59,850 --> 03:23:04,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Commission on Audit kalakip ng inyong reply sa audit observation ni Miranda. 1066 03:23:04,870 --> 03:23:07,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, this is part of the attachment to the replies. 1067 03:23:12,330 --> 03:23:36,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinubmit niyo ito, sinumitin niyo ito sana bilang umano'y patunay ng surveillance activity dahil pare-parehong sinasabi ng mga nasabing certification na ito na walang untoward incident na nagawa o naganap sa implementation ng mga proyekto ng OVP at sa mga engagement mismo ng pangalawang Pangulo. Tama ba? 1068 03:23:36,470 --> 03:23:37,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, po. That's correct. 1069 03:23:38,170 --> 03:23:48,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, ginagamit niyo ang mga certification na ito bilang patunay na inyong opisina ay nag-gastos ng 125 million pesos. 1070 03:23:53,960 --> 03:24:14,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sorry. In short, ginagamit niyo ito bilang patunay na ang nag-gastos ng 125 million ay nag-resulta na walang untoward incident na nangyari dun sa mga identified, supposed, sorry, not identified, but supposed confidential project. 1071 03:24:16,430 --> 03:24:22,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As provided po by the security officer, this is the document that we attach to the replies. 1072 03:24:25,010 --> 03:24:42,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But you will confirm that hindi mandato ng VP... You will confirm na mandato talaga ng VPSPG na panatilihin ang siguridad ng Vice Presidente. Tama ba? 1073 03:24:43,270 --> 03:24:47,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's part of the duties and responsibilities of the VPSPG. 1074 03:24:47,810 --> 03:25:11,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Correct. And you will also confirm na beginning October 2022 and during the entire relevant period, the Vice President already had at least 470 protective security personnel or protective agents. Tama ba? 1075 03:25:11,410 --> 03:25:23,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As to the exact number, ma'am, of the VP, SPG personnel, I cannot comment, ma'am, but there is a unit that handles the security of the VP. which is the BPSPG. 1076 03:25:23,850 --> 03:25:40,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Let me refresh your memory, Mr. Antonio. We will be showing you your letter to the DBM dated October 11, 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-D. 1077 03:25:49,780 --> 03:25:50,620 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. 1078 03:25:50,940 --> 03:25:59,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Diyan sa letter na yan, humihingi kayo ng addition o ng augmentation para sa special duty allowance 1079 03:26:01,810 --> 03:26:12,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ng VPSPG dahil tumaas ang bilang ng security officers and security or protective agents ng Vice President. Tama ba? 1080 03:26:13,050 --> 03:26:13,590 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1081 03:26:13,770 --> 03:26:25,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi mo rin dyan sa letter na yan na as of October 10, 2022, the total count per roster of troops is 473. 1082 03:26:25,740 --> 03:26:27,920 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. I mentioned, ma'am, na... 1083 03:26:27,920 --> 03:26:31,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Antonio. I'm satisfied with your answer. 1084 03:26:37,870 --> 03:27:00,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also confirm na noong una, humigit-kumulang 95 lamang ang security personnel ng OVP. Tama ba? Kaya nga kayo humingi ng augmentation for special duty allowance dahil biglang nag-increase ito by almost four-folds. Ma'am, 1085 03:27:00,920 --> 03:27:07,280 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I can only answer for the security deployment during the term of VP Sara. 1086 03:27:08,140 --> 03:27:08,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Correct. 1087 03:27:11,890 --> 03:27:32,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hindi ba isina-add nyo rin dito sa letter na ito, in-explain nyo, kasama ang letter dated August 22, 2022. Dito in-explain nyo bakit kayo humihingi ng special duty allowance. 1088 03:27:32,880 --> 03:27:33,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. 1089 03:27:34,360 --> 03:27:39,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi nyo, from 1995, Tumaas nga ang bilang ng security 1090 03:27:39,120 --> 03:27:40,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: detail 1091 03:27:40,240 --> 03:27:55,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ng security officer or protective agent. Sa ilalim ng SPG, ayon nga sa iyo, yung mandato ay protectahan at i-ensure ang siguridad ng vice-presidente. Tama ba? 1092 03:27:56,180 --> 03:27:57,320 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 1093 03:28:00,150 --> 03:28:14,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Aaminin mo rin na yung security detail ng vice-presidente, hindi ito mga karaniwang security guards. Ito ay miyembro ng AFP at PNP. Tama ba? 1094 03:28:15,000 --> 03:28:15,840 Lemuel G. Ortoño: In 1095 03:28:15,840 --> 03:28:20,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: fact, sinabi mo rin sa same letter na yan na 1096 03:28:22,570 --> 03:28:38,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 364 ng karagdagang or ng security detail ng Vice Presidente ay mga miyembro ng Armed Forces of the Philippines. At 140 naman ay miyembro ng Philippine National Police. Tama ba? 1097 03:28:39,680 --> 03:28:40,520 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sa 1098 03:28:40,520 --> 03:28:50,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: inyong kaalaman, Mr. Ortonio, Meron ba ang ibang pangalawang Pangulo sa history ng Pilipinas na nagkaroon ng ganito karaming security detail? 1099 03:28:51,820 --> 03:28:57,930 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, I cannot comment for the previous Vice Presidents, Ma'am. 1100 03:28:58,480 --> 03:29:00,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you do not know? The answer is you do not know? 1101 03:29:01,740 --> 03:29:06,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: What I can say is I cannot comment, Ma'am, because I have no personal knowledge. 1102 03:29:06,760 --> 03:29:08,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You have no personal knowledge. That's correct. 1103 03:29:11,960 --> 03:29:43,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also confirm na yung special duty allowance na inyong Hiningi, ito ay karagdagang allowance lamang para dito sa VPSPG. Ibig sabihin, itong membro ng mga VPSPG, kumukuha na ito ng, or tumatanggap na ng sweldo mula sa AFP, sa ilalim ng General Appropriations Act for the members of the AFP. At yung mga membro naman ng PNP, tumatanggap ng sahod mula sa PNP. Kung 1104 03:29:43,920 --> 03:29:44,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: alam ninyo, Mr. 1105 03:29:44,920 --> 03:29:45,200 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Antonio. 1106 03:29:46,130 --> 03:29:47,150 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Council? I 1107 03:29:47,150 --> 03:29:59,430 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: will have to object, Your Honor, because Council has not shown the relevance of the salaries of BPSPG to the confidential funds. And in fact, there was no finding from the COA-ICPAO regarding this matter. 1108 03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:01,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, on two points, Your Honor. 1109 03:30:02,640 --> 03:30:03,200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: First, 1110 03:30:04,400 --> 03:30:53,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, the fact that this was not flagged by the COA does not preclude this honorable court from making a finding on whether it is irregular or not. Number two, Your Honor, it's very relevant, Your Honor, because the primary justification for the confidential funds is for ensuring the security. of the Vice President which is already governed by the mandate of the VP-SPG. In short, Your Honor, they requested funds, additional funds for an item that is already answered for by the mandate of the VP-SPG and which is already paid for from a separate funding, Your Honor. 1111 03:30:54,190 --> 03:30:55,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Quick reply, Your Honor. 1112 03:30:56,190 --> 03:31:35,530 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: The issue on the VPSPG salary, Your Honor, being allegedly covered by the confidential funds is not among the allegations in the articles of impeachment. Neither was this matter alleged in the impeachment complaints. Number two, the impeachment court only relies on the findings of the COA, Your Honor. That's the reason why the COA was placed on the witness stand and testify on its matters, Your Honor, with all due respect that The matter of determining whether the salaries were indeed covered by the confidential funds is a matter outside the powers of the impeachment court to determine, Your Honor. 1113 03:31:35,610 --> 03:31:40,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, if I may just reply, just to set the record straight, Your Honor, because the prosecution 1114 03:31:40,550 --> 03:31:42,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: never... 1115 03:31:46,860 --> 03:32:30,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: No point and at no time did the prosecution say that the confidential funds were used to pay for the salary of the VPSPG. What we are saying, Your Honor, is that the VPSPG is already paid from a separate account, from a separate fund, salary, for the purpose of affording or providing protection to the Vice President. That's now, Your Honor, they requested for funds additional funds to pay for the very same protection. Your Honor, please. That was, that's already being, that's already being, that's already being afforded by Actually, actually, counsels, 1116 03:32:30,520 --> 03:33:24,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please. Actually, Attorney May, you already were able to actually say what you want to say on the record based on your comments and the objection. I will have to sustain the objection of counsel, respondent. The salary of the VP, SPG is irrelevant because the confidential funds cannot be used to pay for the salaries or for security, and if at all, to buy confidential information, if at all, which has also been shown to have been done. We see the point, counsel, Attorney May, that she has, the Vice President, has 473 security personnel already. that, as stated in your offer, should be doing the job that they're spending this confidential fund for. However, the witness has already answered that he may not be in a position to answer that question specifically. Continue with your point. Move on, Atty. Wayne. 1117 03:33:25,210 --> 03:33:52,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, you will also confirm na sa inyong sulat na may petsang August 22, 2022, sinabi niyo na as early as July 1, 2022, pitong OVP satellite office na ang naitatag ng Office of the Vice President. Ito yung mga satellite offices sa Bacolod, Cebu, Dagupan, Davao, Surigao, Tacloban, at Zamboanga. Tama ba? 1118 03:33:52,490 --> 03:33:53,570 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 1119 03:33:54,270 --> 03:34:05,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At nung point, sorry, bawat isa nito, sinabi ninyo, and I quote, are catering to an average of 100 to 150 clients per day. Tama ba? 1120 03:34:05,290 --> 03:34:06,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 1121 03:34:08,370 --> 03:34:24,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will also agree na walang naiulat na untoward incidents sa roll-out ng mga satellite offices na iyon bago ang December 21, 2022. Tama ba? 1122 03:34:24,850 --> 03:34:30,610 Lemuel G. Ortoño: In terms of the operations within the satellite office, no untoward incidents. 1123 03:34:31,290 --> 03:34:31,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 1124 03:34:33,440 --> 03:34:39,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will confirm that during the roll-out of these satellite offices, wala pang confidential funds. 1125 03:34:42,440 --> 03:34:44,340 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Office of the Vice President. Tama ba? 1126 03:34:44,340 --> 03:34:45,560 Lemuel G. Ortoño: During this time, ma'am. 1127 03:34:45,720 --> 03:34:46,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: During 1128 03:34:46,320 --> 03:34:46,960 Lemuel G. Ortoño: this time. 1129 03:34:47,160 --> 03:34:47,720 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 1130 03:34:48,110 --> 03:35:07,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you will also confirm na beginning fourth quarter of 2023, up to the present, you continue to roll out satellite offices and projects under your umbrella programs, good governance program, the social economic delivery program. Tama ba? 1131 03:35:07,750 --> 03:35:08,910 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. And 1132 03:35:08,910 --> 03:35:17,790 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: up to this time, wala ding naiuulat na untoward incident sa mga rollout ng mga proyektong ito. Tama ba? 1133 03:35:18,690 --> 03:35:19,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1134 03:35:22,230 --> 03:35:46,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, etong certification, which is prosecution's evidence, P-I-12-M, nakasulat dito na this, and I quote, this certification is being issued upon the request of the Office of the Vice President for whatever legal purpose it may serve. End of quote. Tama ba? 1135 03:35:47,500 --> 03:35:49,040 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am, based on the document. 1136 03:35:49,940 --> 03:36:03,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Kung gayon, hindi ito record na iniingatan sa karaniwang takbo ng gawain ng Office of the Vice President. In short, this is not a record kept in the ordinary business of the Office of the Vice President. Yes? 1137 03:36:04,510 --> 03:36:06,410 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, I would say so. 1138 03:36:08,290 --> 03:36:14,470 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Certification was only produced upon request. Tama ba? Based on... 1139 03:36:17,000 --> 03:36:17,800 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, for 1140 03:36:17,800 --> 03:36:25,260 Lemuel G. Ortoño: this specific document, ma'am, I cannot say that it is upon request, ma'am. I cannot, based on my understanding, I 1141 03:36:25,260 --> 03:36:43,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: cannot assume. Even if it is expressly stated in this document, that this certification is being issued upon the request of the Office of the Vice President. Hindi mo rin, hindi mo rin masasabi na issued ito upon the request. Ask and answer, Your Honor. No, Your Honor, that's just a follow-up, Your Honor. 1142 03:36:45,060 --> 03:36:46,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness will answer. 1143 03:36:48,170 --> 03:36:59,850 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I cannot automatically assume, ma'am, na it is made because, through a request, just merely because of a statement that indicates that based on a request. 1144 03:37:01,020 --> 03:37:06,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, so ibig sabihin mo, maaaring nagkamali lang yung explicit statement na ito? 1145 03:37:06,040 --> 03:37:06,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, please. 1146 03:37:08,260 --> 03:37:09,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the basis of the objection? 1147 03:37:09,640 --> 03:37:10,420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Misleading, Your 1148 03:37:10,420 --> 03:37:12,740 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor. Maaaring nagkamali lang. Or 1149 03:37:12,740 --> 03:37:17,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: argumentative. Or argumentative. Or argumentative. Sustained. 1150 03:37:18,530 --> 03:37:22,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's the witness answer, counsel, however unacceptable it may be. 1151 03:37:26,100 --> 03:37:26,860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Also, 1152 03:37:27,160 --> 03:37:51,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: in those four certifications that you were earlier confronted with, wala ring nakalagay na kasulat na amount, wala ring nakasulat na pangalan na pinagbigyan ng confidential funds, walang sinasabi kung saan ginastos basically yung confidential funds na pinapatunguhan. dyan sa apat na certifications na yan. Tama ba? 1153 03:37:54,520 --> 03:37:58,400 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am, no. It does not indicate. 1154 03:37:58,840 --> 03:37:59,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 1155 03:38:04,170 --> 03:38:13,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Also, Mr. Ortonio, can you please refer to Exhibit P-I-12-M. This is the first certification. 1156 03:38:17,120 --> 03:38:18,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Do you see that? 1157 03:38:18,500 --> 03:38:18,920 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1158 03:38:19,980 --> 03:38:31,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will confirm na yung period na sakop ng certification na yan ay December 20. to December 31. Tama ba? 1159 03:38:32,530 --> 03:38:36,290 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document, ma'am, yes, it indicates 20 to 31. 1160 03:38:37,080 --> 03:38:50,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero ang mismong liquidation kung saan nyo inilakip yung certification na yan, ang period na sakop ay December 21 hanggang December 31 lamang. 31. Tama. 1161 03:38:50,890 --> 03:38:53,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the documents that were submitted. 1162 03:38:53,270 --> 03:39:00,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So in short, may one day na covered ng certification na hindi covered. ng liquidation. Tama ba? 1163 03:39:02,210 --> 03:39:08,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If you will base it, ma'am, based on my understanding, if you will base it on the liquidation report, merong isang araw. 1164 03:39:08,310 --> 03:39:09,490 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Merong isang araw. Thank you. 1165 03:39:16,890 --> 03:39:23,130 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, may I just have one minute, Your Honor, to take a sip from my... 1166 03:39:23,130 --> 03:39:23,850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please, counsel, take your salabat, 1167 03:39:23,850 --> 03:39:24,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. 1168 03:39:24,170 --> 03:39:24,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Salabat ko. 1169 03:39:33,910 --> 03:39:36,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may also do the same, Mr. Ortonio. Okay, 1170 03:39:36,950 --> 03:39:37,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: sir. 1171 03:39:53,050 --> 03:39:55,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. May I proceed, Your Honor? 1172 03:39:59,730 --> 03:40:04,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, Mr. Ortonio, balikan natin yung sulat ninyo, dated November 30, 2023. 1173 03:40:09,290 --> 03:40:16,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: which is prosecution's exhibit P-I-12-D. So, 1174 03:40:24,050 --> 03:40:25,370 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: ready with you? 1175 03:40:25,590 --> 03:40:27,270 Lemuel G. Ortoño: P-I 1176 03:40:27,270 --> 03:40:29,310 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: -12-D. 1177 03:41:10,670 --> 03:41:11,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Diyan 1178 03:41:11,510 --> 03:41:23,300 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa same letter na yan, sinabi niyo, and I quote, the OVP identified sa letter na yan, sinikap niyong ipaliwanag ang 1179 03:41:25,280 --> 03:41:50,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: pangangailangan niyo for confidential funds. Sinabi ninyo, And I quote, the OVP identified the need for the conduct of surveillance activities to enable to craft narrowly targeted and responsive programs that would ensure peace and order and prevent criminal activities, particularly those of organized criminal groups and communist insurgents. End of quote. 1180 03:41:53,220 --> 03:42:34,730 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ngunit, we will confirm sa parehong sulat ninyo dated August 22, 2022, Inamin nyo na nga na noong July 1 pa lamang bago pa humiling ang OVP ng confidential funds, natukoy na ng OVP, sorry, in that same letter, I'm referring to that same letter. In that same letter, inamin nyo na as early as July 1, 2022, bago pa humiling ang OVP ng confidential funds, natukoy na ng OVP ang mga programa at aktibidad. na nakutuon sa poverty alleviation, magabanta sa kapayapaan at kaayusan, at pagsulong ng kaunlarang pang-ekonomiya. Tama ba? 1181 03:42:35,130 --> 03:42:37,610 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. That's indicated in the letter. 1182 03:42:38,770 --> 03:43:11,330 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Dagdag niyo pa, bilang katwiran, I quote, It was necessary to conduct surveillance activities to determine where best to implement its programs to maximize their impact and reach the isolated, underserved, and unserved areas. As such, in August 2022, the OVP submitted a request through the DPM for confidential fund budget for surveillance activities which are intended to support the mandate and operations of the OVP. Tama ba? 1183 03:43:11,570 --> 03:43:12,790 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. 1184 03:43:13,550 --> 03:43:30,670 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Subalit, balik tayo sa letter niyo dated August 22, 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A. You will confirm. na dun sa paliwanag nyo, sa paghingi nyo ng confidential funds, nowhere there. 1185 03:43:31,130 --> 03:43:31,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: O 1186 03:43:31,610 --> 03:43:36,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: wala, kahit saan man dyan, lumalabas ang salitang surveillance. Tama ba? 1187 03:43:45,620 --> 03:43:50,860 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the letter that we submitted, ma'am, there's no indication of the word surveillance. 1188 03:43:52,540 --> 03:44:05,340 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Dahil nga, ang purpose na sinabi ninyo ay... and I quote, foreign consideration of the safe implementation of the various projects and activities under the good governance program and the conduct of official engagements and functional representation. 1189 03:44:07,750 --> 03:44:16,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Diyan sa same letter na yan, hindi rin sinabi na gagamitin ng confidential funds para sa identification of areas for program implementation. Tama ba? 1190 03:44:17,350 --> 03:44:30,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: It is not specifically stated, ma'am, in the letter, ma'am. Although in the letter, ma'am, there's already in consideration of the safe implementation of various projects and activities under the good governance. 1191 03:44:30,470 --> 03:44:39,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero hindi sinabi dito na the confidential funds will specifically be used for identification of areas for program implementation. 1192 03:44:41,950 --> 03:44:47,450 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the letter request, ma'am, there's no specific explanation. And 1193 03:44:47,450 --> 03:44:58,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the explanation given was in fact for the safe implementation of OVP initiatives and confidence meeting. Confidence building. Tama pa? 1194 03:44:58,470 --> 03:45:02,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the letter request, ma'am, that's the wordings that were indicated. 1195 03:45:02,890 --> 03:45:24,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And also, if you will refer to the physical and financial plan that you subsequently submitted to the DPM, sinabi niyo pa, nilagay niyo, sina-add niyo sa physical target, number of identified areas with surveillance conducted and monitored. Hindi ba? 1196 03:45:41,700 --> 03:45:45,040 Lemuel G. Ortoño: If we will base it in the document, ma'am. Yes. So, 1197 03:45:45,060 --> 03:45:54,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: in short, kahit hindi nakalagay ang bilang, meron ang mga identified areas. May mga lugar nang natukoy dun sa physical and financial land. Tama ba? 1198 03:45:54,890 --> 03:46:03,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, I cannot directly answer, ma'am, if there were identified areas already when the PFP was crafted, ma'am. 1199 03:46:03,910 --> 03:46:23,270 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. So, punta na lang tayo ngayon sa August 22, dun sa dating August 22, 2022 letter. Nainamin mo nga, As early as July 1, 2022, meron ng 7 satellite office na naitalaga sa Bacolod, Cebu, Dagupan, Davao, Surigao, Tacloban, Zamboanga. Tama ba? 1200 03:46:24,040 --> 03:46:26,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the letter that we submitted. 1201 03:46:27,370 --> 03:46:44,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And in that same letter, naglakip pa kayo ng Annex A na parehong sulat ng actual na beneficiaryo ng medical assistance linggo-linggo mula unang linggo ng July 22 hanggang sa mga sumusunod. Yes, 1202 03:46:45,700 --> 03:46:47,700 Lemuel G. Ortoño: this is the projection that we submitted. 1203 03:46:53,200 --> 03:47:12,380 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At nakalimbag din sa item 3 ng same letter na yan na tatlo pang karagdagang satellite office ang augmentation ng libreng sakay, tatlong OVP food truck, at PIS 911 sa Marawi. Tama ba? 1204 03:47:14,130 --> 03:47:19,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's indicated in item number 3. for the additional positions. 1205 03:47:19,970 --> 03:47:34,000 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, so even before the confidential funds were released or bago pa mailabas ang confidential funds, meron na kayong mga na-identify na paglalagyan ng mga satellite offices, tama ba? 1206 03:47:34,970 --> 03:47:36,550 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, there were plans already. 1207 03:47:36,950 --> 03:47:40,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And pagro-rolloutan ng mga programa ng OVP. For activities. 1208 03:47:45,080 --> 03:47:52,850 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Diyan sa November 30, 2023 letter din ninyo, sinabi nyo, and 1209 03:47:54,700 --> 03:48:23,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I quote, The OVP opened exploratory talks on the surveillance activities to be conducted and identified information agents to be engaged. The OVP built its information database and established a network of information agents. As such, when the requested confidential funds was released on December 13, 2022 through SARO BMB-C-22-001, 1210 03:48:25,530 --> 03:48:33,700 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2024, the OVP was able to finalize definitive agreements and obligations based on the plan. End of quote. 1211 03:48:36,010 --> 03:48:39,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Inilarawan ninyo sa sulat na yan ng exploratory talks. Tama ba? 1212 03:48:40,300 --> 03:48:43,880 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, this is based on the information from our security officer. 1213 03:48:44,060 --> 03:48:52,680 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sinabi nyo rin, information agent na identified kasama ng information database, network of information agents. Tama ba? 1214 03:48:53,390 --> 03:48:56,310 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, as provided by our security officer. Again, 1215 03:48:57,110 --> 03:49:07,140 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: wala, may isa man dito ang nabanggit sa August 2022 confidential phone request. Tama ba? 1216 03:49:07,380 --> 03:49:10,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the initial request, no information indicated. 1217 03:49:11,500 --> 03:49:20,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At wala rin, kahit alin man dito ang lumalabas sa PFP for 2022. Tama ba? 1218 03:49:22,110 --> 03:49:25,110 Lemuel G. Ortoño: When you say, you mean, ma'am, yung... 1219 03:49:25,110 --> 03:49:36,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: These items. These words, information database, network information agents, identified agents, walang kahit anuman na lumalabas. 1220 03:49:36,970 --> 03:49:42,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on the document presented earlier, ma'am, no such wordings. 1221 03:49:42,770 --> 03:49:50,690 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hindi rin kayo nakilahok sa supposed explanatory talks na ito. Binatay nyo lamang ito sa kung anong inireport sa inyo. Tama ba? 1222 03:49:50,950 --> 03:50:02,030 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I had no participation, ma'am, because on matters of Security, ma'am, that is not my expertise, ma'am. So, this is from our security officer. 1223 03:50:02,590 --> 03:50:09,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. In that same letter, as I've mentioned, and as I've read, binanggit niya rin finalized definitive agreements. 1224 03:50:11,280 --> 03:50:11,800 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1225 03:50:13,390 --> 03:50:27,740 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero wala kayong niisang isinabmit din na kahit isang definitive agreement. Kahit isa sa mga definitive agreements na inyong tinutukoy dito sa inyong November 30, 2023 letter. Tama ba? 1226 03:50:27,960 --> 03:50:33,420 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, when you pertain to definitive agreements, ma'am, you mean documented agreements, ma'am? 1227 03:50:33,800 --> 03:50:40,420 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes. Kasi para maging definitive agreements, kailangan cast in stones. Ibig sabihin, nakasulat siya. 1228 03:50:41,030 --> 03:50:55,370 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, in terms of any documentation or documented agreements, ma'am, there were no documents that were provided, ma'am. And as to how our agreements were made on the ground, ma'am, again, I cannot provide any information. 1229 03:51:05,450 --> 03:51:39,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will confirm that from the time that Sara was released on December 13 to the drawdown of the check noong December 20, 2022, itong araw lamang ang nag-lapse. Ang posisyon ba ng inyong opisina sa loob ng 7 araw na iyon na finalize ninyo ang definitive agreements sa supposed nationwide network ng mga ahente na inyong binanggit sa inyong letter. 1230 03:51:40,140 --> 03:51:52,080 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, as to how the agreements were finalized or made, ma'am, that I cannot provide an answer, ma'am, if those were done within the seven-day period. 1231 03:51:53,000 --> 03:52:48,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. In that same letter, for the first time, you also denied that the 2022 confidential funds were spent in just 11 days. And your explanation was, and I quote, on December 20, 2022, A cash advance for confidential fund was drawn to facilitate payment. Please take note of these words. For the obligations already incurred. Hence, the 125 million confidential funds were fully utilized for expenses planned, implemented, and paid during the three-month period. meaning October to December 22 and not within mere 11 days as what the audit observations may have suggested. End of quote. Nakalagay yan sa inyong sagot. 1232 03:52:50,000 --> 03:52:53,160 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Ma'am, in terms of... No, it's 1233 03:52:53,160 --> 03:52:55,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: okay, Mr. Antonio. I'm satisfied with your answer. Your 1234 03:52:55,800 --> 03:52:56,160 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. 1235 03:52:57,380 --> 03:52:58,120 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel? 1236 03:52:58,400 --> 03:53:00,900 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Can the witness be allowed to answer? Your Honor, 1237 03:53:00,980 --> 03:53:04,040 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the witness already satisfied. The 1238 03:53:04,040 --> 03:53:12,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question was answerable by yes or no. You will be afforded your chance, Attorney Christine, during your cross, to make him explain that point. 1239 03:53:13,280 --> 03:53:15,260 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So you mentioned earlier, 1240 03:53:18,190 --> 03:53:32,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: obligations, quote-unquote, already incurred, and expenses already paid. So ang ibig sabihin, nang already incurred, ay nangako ng magbayad ang OVP bago pa mailabas ang pera. Tama ba? 1241 03:53:33,580 --> 03:53:43,140 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Ma'am, I cannot specifically say, ma'am, because arrangements made on the ground, ma'am, I have no personal knowledge on it. 1242 03:53:43,380 --> 03:53:45,500 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pero lumagda ka sa letter na yan, di ba? 1243 03:53:45,600 --> 03:53:51,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Again, ma'am, this information, ma'am, came from the information from our security officer. 1244 03:53:51,020 --> 03:54:03,440 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, ibig sabihin, sinulat mo lang mechanically exactong words na finid sa'yo ng kausap mo, ganun ba? Na hindi mo naiintindihan kung ano yung sinusulat. Tama ba? 1245 03:54:03,680 --> 03:54:19,040 Lemuel G. Ortoño: First, ma'am, hindi po siya mechanically na sinulat ko lang po kung ano yung sinabi. Of course, ma'am, based on the information that was provided to me, ma'am, yun yung nilatag ko doon sa letter, ma'am, for the drafting of the letter. 1246 03:54:20,660 --> 03:54:38,510 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, allow me, kayo po ang gumawa ng sulat, ginawa orto niya, di ba? Yes, Your Honor. Kayo po ang gumawa ng sulat? Yes, Your Honor. Bases sa nakuha niyo yung impormasyon kay Gina, kay Colonel Lachica, at iba pang opisyal. Ano pong ibig sabihin niyo dyan sa pahayag niyong yan? 1247 03:54:40,860 --> 03:54:41,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To 1248 03:54:41,380 --> 03:54:53,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: facilitate payment for the obligations already incurred. Ibig sabihin, may utang na, babayaran na lang. Na-incur na 1249 03:54:53,010 --> 03:55:13,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: yung expense, babayaran na lang. Sir, based on what was shared to me, sir, hindi siya utang, no? but arrangements have been done on mga activities that will be done and then the payment will be done once the money would be available already. 1250 03:55:14,190 --> 03:55:26,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Antonio, what do you mean by obligations already incurred? Anong ibig sabihin para sa inyo nung sinulat niya ngayon? Obligations already incurred. Sa simpleng 1251 03:55:26,650 --> 03:55:40,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: salita, bayarin. Ano, sir? What I meant on this statement, sir, is that there are already arrangements that have been coordinated, sir, prior to the release of the fund. When 1252 03:55:40,390 --> 03:55:54,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you say arrangements nga, may pinangako ng bayaran, hindi pa lang nababayaran. Bayarin. Obligations already incurred. May obligation na. May pangako na nabayaran. 1253 03:55:54,920 --> 03:56:11,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Sir, hindi siya pangako, sir, na... bayaran, but meron na siyang mga, how do I explain it, sir? Parang meron ng arrangement, sir, that will be done and then yung payment, sir, will be once available na siya. 1254 03:56:12,300 --> 03:56:18,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir, in the ordinary course of meaning, that's how you define obligations already incurred that you wrote? 1255 03:56:20,020 --> 03:56:27,340 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, sir. Based on how I understand the information, sir, that's how I indicated it in the letter. 1256 03:56:27,940 --> 03:56:31,020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's his answer, counsel. You may proceed. 1257 03:56:31,420 --> 03:56:47,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, but you will confirm that on those three months referred to in your letter, October, November, and November, at the early parts ng December, wala pang allotment na maaaring pagbasihan ng OVP ng obligasyon ng confidential funds, tama ba? 1258 03:56:48,140 --> 03:56:50,040 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There was no allotment as of 1259 03:56:50,040 --> 03:56:58,080 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: yes. Kung gayon, wala ding certification of availability of funds. na maaaring nailabas para sa mga obligasyon na iyon. Tama ba? 1260 03:56:58,540 --> 03:57:01,380 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There was no document yet released. 1261 03:57:02,000 --> 03:57:15,320 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Alam nyo din, Mr. Antonio, dahil sa tagal ng inyong paninilbihan bilang kawaninang gobyerno, alam ninyo na walang obligasyon ng gobyerno na maaaring pasukin, na walang appropriation at katumbas na allotment. Tama ba? 1262 03:57:16,090 --> 03:57:17,230 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 1263 03:57:18,850 --> 03:57:34,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At alam din ninyo, base dun sa Joint Circular na iyong paulit-ulit. na si Knight sa mga letters ninyo, alam ninyo ng cash advance ay dapat mauna sa gastos. Tama ba? 1264 03:57:34,370 --> 03:57:35,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 1265 03:57:36,460 --> 03:57:42,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hindi ito maaaring legal na gamitin para i-reimburse o pantakip sa mga gastusing na gawa na. Tama ba? 1266 03:57:43,560 --> 03:57:47,440 Lemuel G. Ortoño: For reimbursements, ma'am, yes, that's indicated in the HAC. 1267 03:57:47,600 --> 03:58:00,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, thank you. Now, pumunta na tayo sa notice of, sa your reply to notice of suspension. Ikaw din sumagot sa reply. Ikaw din ang sumagot sa notice of suspension. Diba? 1268 03:58:02,700 --> 03:58:04,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. I'm one of 1269 03:58:04,000 --> 03:58:12,960 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the signatory. The notice of suspension that I'm referring to is Prosecution's Exhibit P-I-13-A. 1270 03:58:30,100 --> 03:58:56,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Dito sa notice of suspension na ito, pinunanangkowa, and I quote, There is discrepancy in the total amount of expenses based on the submitted accomplishment report as against the DEPs. Ibig sabihin ng COA, hindi nagtutugma ang total amount ng expenses sa accomplishment report at sa DEPs na sinubmit ng inyong opisina. Tama ba? 1271 03:58:57,150 --> 03:58:58,550 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. That's correct. 1272 03:58:58,770 --> 03:59:28,120 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ayon sa COA, ipinakita ng accomplishment report na iyong sinumite na ginamit ang confidential funds sa mga gastusing may kabuuhan ng 125 million pesos. Pero pagdating sa TEPs, nang itotal na ito, ang gastusing actual na naganap ay may kabuhuhang 125,150,000 pesos. Tama ba? 1273 03:59:28,260 --> 03:59:29,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes po, that's correct. 1274 03:59:29,400 --> 03:59:32,060 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: In short, may pagkakaibang 150,000. 1275 03:59:32,850 --> 03:59:33,570 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1276 03:59:34,850 --> 03:59:49,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At nung sumagot kayo, dyan sa notice of suspension na yan, I'm referring to your letter dated March 13, 2024, which is prosecution's exhibit P-I-13-A. 1277 03:59:49,210 --> 03:59:50,010 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa 1278 03:59:50,910 --> 04:00:03,880 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sagot ninyo, ang paliwanag ninyo ay yung mga resibo, I quote, may have been in a Tama ba? Yan yung paliwanag nyo dun sa P150,000. 1279 04:00:21,920 --> 04:00:24,560 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, that's correct. Based on our reply. 1280 04:00:24,940 --> 04:01:14,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: But nine days later, sumulat ka ulit sa COA supplementing that earlier reply. Your supplemental reply is dated March 22, 2024 which is prosecution exhibit P-I-13-B. Now, dyan sa supplemental reply, ipinaliwanag niyong muli yung discrepancy ng 150,000. Ngayon, ang paliwanag ninyo ay, quote, The reconciliation shows that an amount of 50,000 pesos under payment of reward and an amount of 100,000 pesos under purchase of supplies were provided by Assistant Secretary Lemuel G. Ortonio out of his personal funds. Tama ba? But 1281 04:02:00,180 --> 04:02:05,730 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: do you recall, Making that statement in your supplemental reply, Mr. Ortonio. Based 1282 04:02:05,730 --> 04:02:05,990 Lemuel G. Ortoño: on 1283 04:02:05,990 --> 04:02:06,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the 1284 04:02:06,230 --> 04:02:09,010 Lemuel G. Ortoño: information also flashed on 1285 04:02:09,010 --> 04:02:09,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: the screen, yes. 1286 04:02:12,220 --> 04:02:19,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa'yo galing yung 100. Ikaw yung Lemuel G. Ortonio, Assistant Secretary na pinapatunguhan. 1287 04:02:20,380 --> 04:02:20,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I 1288 04:02:20,860 --> 04:02:23,680 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: mean, nire-refer dito sa sulat na ito. Tama ba? 1289 04:02:23,780 --> 04:02:25,020 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct po. So 1290 04:02:25,020 --> 04:02:56,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: alam mo rin, dahil ikaw ang nag-abot ng pera, alam mo rin kung kailan siya inabot. Kung kailan siya binigay. Tama ba? Yes. So, by the time that you prepared your initial response to the notice of suspension, your letter dated March 13, 2024, yung exhibit P-I-13-A na inyong tinignan kanina, at that point, alam niyo na rin na nagbigay ka ng 150,000 pesos. Tama ba? But 1291 04:02:56,950 --> 04:03:08,550 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I had to confirm first with our special dispersing officer. So, we needed to make a reply. So, we sent an initial reply and submitted a supplemental reply. 1292 04:03:08,550 --> 04:03:24,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, you are trying to say na ginawa mo yung letter dated March 13, 2024, nakapagbigay ka na ng eksplanasyon na hindi mo pa biniverify dun sa Special Dispersing Officer at sa Security Officer. 1293 04:03:24,550 --> 04:03:26,250 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There is already a coordination. 1294 04:03:26,270 --> 04:03:27,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: There is already a coordination. 1295 04:03:27,830 --> 04:03:28,470 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Pero 1296 04:03:28,470 --> 04:03:31,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: hindi mo na itanong. Naitanong mo lamang nine days later. 1297 04:03:32,610 --> 04:03:35,210 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's why we submitted a supplemental reply 1298 04:03:35,210 --> 04:03:35,650 Lemuel G. Ortoño: to 1299 04:03:35,650 --> 04:03:38,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: ensure that we provide the proper information. At 1300 04:03:38,670 --> 04:03:59,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sinabi niyo pa rito, that was due to the urgency of the expenses. So ibig sabihin, may sinabi sa inyong expenses na urgent kaya humingi ng 150,000. In short, binaliwanag sa iyo kung bakit humingi ng 150,000. Yes? 1301 04:04:00,950 --> 04:04:10,090 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Nilapit po ito sa akin ni Ms. Gina Acosta, our SDO. At sinabi niya. And then she mentioned that there was a request from Colonel Lachica for emergency. 1302 04:04:10,570 --> 04:04:12,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And there was urgency for that request? 1303 04:04:13,370 --> 04:04:13,890 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1304 04:04:15,520 --> 04:04:15,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 1305 04:04:15,660 --> 04:04:25,940 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: hindi rin karaniwan na may hinihi sa'yo ng 150,000 from your own pocket? Hindi naman ito karaniwang ginagawa sa OVP? Or karaniwan ba ito? 1306 04:04:26,080 --> 04:04:27,600 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No, it's not common. 1307 04:04:27,940 --> 04:04:38,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Pero nung gumagawa ka ng notice of suspension, bigla mo nakalimutan na merong 150,000. Sinabi mo kanina, sinabi mo na kanina, na in-explain sa'yo, 1308 04:04:38,800 --> 04:04:40,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sinabi 1309 04:04:40,900 --> 04:04:52,250 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: mo na kanina, na pinaliwanag sa inyo ni Ms. Acosta, na galing kay Colonel Lachica, yung paliwanag ng urgency for the request. Tama ba? 1310 04:04:53,240 --> 04:04:54,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. Counsel? 1311 04:04:57,380 --> 04:04:59,240 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Ask and answer it already, Your Honor. 1312 04:05:02,750 --> 04:05:03,670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Attorney May. 1313 04:05:05,370 --> 04:05:10,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, you are salary grade 29, correct? 1314 04:05:10,770 --> 04:05:11,690 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct, ma'am. 1315 04:05:11,710 --> 04:05:19,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And you're receiving roughly how much in salary monthly, Mr. Antonio? 1316 04:05:20,540 --> 04:05:21,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Your Honor, please. 1317 04:05:22,770 --> 04:05:23,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the objection, 1318 04:05:23,870 --> 04:05:29,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: counsel? Relevance. It's very relevant, Your Honor. It goes into the credibility of this witness. And 1319 04:05:29,290 --> 04:05:33,610 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: if you can afford 150, counsel, if you remember, Gina said the same yesterday. 1320 04:05:35,210 --> 04:05:36,970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness, please answer the question. 1321 04:05:37,670 --> 04:05:44,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Salary grade 29, roughly about 180-190 gross. 1322 04:05:45,470 --> 04:05:59,740 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So yung binigay mo ng 150,000 from your personal funds is just around 40,000 short of your monthly salary. Tama ba? 1323 04:06:00,550 --> 04:06:01,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's correct. 1324 04:06:01,850 --> 04:06:07,450 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Nung binigay mo ba ito? Yung 150,000, may hiningi kang resibo 1325 04:06:09,370 --> 04:06:12,890 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: patunay na nagbigay ka ng 150,000? 1326 04:06:13,820 --> 04:06:23,240 Lemuel G. Ortoño: At the time po, because of the urgency and dahil humingi po ng tulong si Ms. Gina sa akin, I provided her with the request. 1327 04:06:23,600 --> 04:06:27,460 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And were you able to recover the 150,000, Mr. Ortonio? 1328 04:06:27,640 --> 04:06:30,760 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Unfortunately, ma'am, I was not reimbursed anymore. 1329 04:06:30,920 --> 04:06:31,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You were not reimbursed. 1330 04:06:34,060 --> 04:06:36,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Up to today, Mr. Ortoño? 1331 04:06:36,900 --> 04:06:37,980 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, Your Honor. 1332 04:06:37,980 --> 04:06:40,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At etong 1333 04:06:41,020 --> 04:06:51,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 150,000 naman na ito, hindi ito nag-appear. Yung pagbigay mo ng 150,000, hindi ito nag-appear sa kahit anumang record ng Office of the Vice President. 1334 04:06:51,640 --> 04:06:52,280 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Hindi. 1335 04:06:59,170 --> 04:07:02,230 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Now, pumunta na tayo sa purchase of supplies. 1336 04:07:10,700 --> 04:07:30,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, Mr. Ortonio, kasama sa sinasabing yung pinaglaanan ninyo ng confidential funds ay ang purchase of or payment of purchase supplies, payment of tables and chairs, payment of desktop computers and printers. Tama ba? 1337 04:07:30,630 --> 04:07:31,350 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Correct. 1338 04:07:31,930 --> 04:07:42,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Ang mga desktop computer, printer, mesa, atupuan ay mga bagay na hindi nauubos or tinatawag na non-consumable. Tama ba? 1339 04:07:43,150 --> 04:07:43,830 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1340 04:07:45,420 --> 04:07:52,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Again, more than or almost two decades na kayo naglilingkod sa 1341 04:08:09,570 --> 04:08:10,290 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, 1342 04:08:15,040 --> 04:08:16,480 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I would say so. 1343 04:08:17,200 --> 04:08:37,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At alam niyo rin na nakatalang ari-ariyan ng gobyerno. Ibig sabihin, yung mga government properties These are recorded. May karampatang property number, property acknowledgement receipt, accountable officer at annual inventory. Tama ba? 1344 04:08:38,420 --> 04:08:42,340 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, if procurements through the regular funding. 1345 04:08:43,190 --> 04:08:54,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At sinasubmit din ito, yung inventory na ito, isinasubmit din ito sa opisina ng Commission on Audit. Tama ba? 1346 04:08:56,080 --> 04:08:58,380 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, yes, for the inventory. 1347 04:08:58,840 --> 04:09:16,640 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. Pero, aminin mo, you will confirm na para dito sa mga purchase ng supposed supplies, computers, tables and chairs, wala kayong sinubmit na inventory para dito sa kuwa. Tama ba? 1348 04:09:18,310 --> 04:09:23,730 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Specifically for these items, they were not reflected because of... 1349 04:09:23,730 --> 04:09:34,970 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm not asking... Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Ortonia. I'm not asking for the... Your Honor, please. I'm just asking for... I'm just asking whether or not you submitted an inventory to the COA. Attorney 1350 04:09:34,970 --> 04:09:35,350 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Christine? 1351 04:09:35,950 --> 04:09:36,870 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: The witness is 1352 04:09:36,870 --> 04:09:40,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: answering the question, Your Honor, if he can be allowed to answer. 1353 04:09:40,250 --> 04:09:45,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, let it be a subject matter, of course. I think the answer given was sufficient already. 1354 04:09:46,760 --> 04:09:59,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. At para din dito sa mga supplies na ito, wala ka rin nakitang, wala rin binigay sa iyo na invoice or official receipt. Wala nitong, tama ba? 1355 04:09:59,530 --> 04:10:00,050 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Nine. 1356 04:10:00,330 --> 04:10:07,590 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Wala ka rin nakitang records ng sales invoices na ito at mga official receipts sa buong record ng OVP. Tama ba? 1357 04:10:07,790 --> 04:10:08,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: None, ma'am. 1358 04:10:10,480 --> 04:10:24,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Wala ring dokumento na magpapakita na ang mga bagay na ito ay i-donate ng OVP sa kahit sino man. Tama ba? 1359 04:10:26,350 --> 04:10:28,390 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No record in 1360 04:10:28,390 --> 04:10:28,910 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: terms of 1361 04:10:28,910 --> 04:10:29,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: the donation. 1362 04:10:30,590 --> 04:10:46,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Hanggang ngayon, Ikaw personally, Mr. Ortonio, hindi mo rin maituturo kung nasaan na itong mga mesa, upuan, supplies, computers na nagkakahalagang 3.5 million. Hindi mo naman ituro kung nasaan sila. 1363 04:10:47,200 --> 04:10:57,940 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Considering that these are procurements for confidential activities, no ma'am, I would have no personal knowledge on where these items are. 1364 04:10:59,330 --> 04:11:11,390 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: And I would suppose wala rin. nakapagturo sa office ng OVP kung nasaan itong mga mesa, computer, supplies na ito. Tama ba? Your Honor, please. 1365 04:11:12,290 --> 04:11:13,110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Christine. 1366 04:11:13,650 --> 04:11:32,930 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Speculative, Your Honor. How is that speculative, Your Honor? Or asking for an opinion. How is that asking for an opinion, Your Honor? I am asking whether, to his knowledge, there was anyone in the OVP who could point to these non-consumable items. Her wording was, I suppose. She 1367 04:11:32,930 --> 04:11:33,790 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: did not say, to your 1368 04:11:33,790 --> 04:11:40,770 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: knowledge. Okay, then I withdraw, I drop, Your Honor, the phrase, I suppose. Mr. Ortonio, tama ba? 1369 04:11:41,230 --> 04:11:41,730 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No, 1370 04:11:44,790 --> 04:11:51,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: I would not have any knowledge also if there are other personnel in the office who would know in the OVP. 1371 04:11:57,010 --> 04:12:11,050 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Conversely, hindi mo rin masasabi kung talagang kung merong nakakalam kung talaga nag-i-exist itong mga mesa, tables, sorry, tables and chairs, computers and supplies. Your 1372 04:12:11,050 --> 04:12:15,680 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Honor, please. Already asked and answered and repetitive. 1373 04:12:17,180 --> 04:12:18,220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on, counsel. 1374 04:12:19,590 --> 04:12:20,150 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay. 1375 04:12:23,050 --> 04:12:25,570 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Earlier, we, earlier, 1376 04:12:29,350 --> 04:12:35,430 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, we just parked one item, yung certifications that were attached to the liquidation reports. 1377 04:13:09,740 --> 04:13:17,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: You will confirm, Mr. Antonio. The vice president herself signed all those certifications. 1378 04:13:22,710 --> 04:13:25,250 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, ma'am. Based on the documents that were presented. 1379 04:13:25,950 --> 04:13:51,920 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: By the way, Mr. Antonio, earlier you mentioned that you submitted PIORs. Did you ask Ms. Acosta and the security officer kung ano, kung meron man, ano-ano itong mga threats na na-identify? in the course of the disbursement of the confidential funds. Naitanong niyo ba? 1380 04:13:52,160 --> 04:13:54,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: No, I did not ask anymore, ma'am. 1381 04:13:55,310 --> 04:14:02,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So just to summarize, Mr. Ortonio, doon sa August 22, 1382 04:14:04,290 --> 04:14:07,830 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2022 letter, may 1383 04:14:09,620 --> 04:14:15,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I request the technical booth to please flash on the screen. 1384 04:14:16,060 --> 04:14:20,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly flash the August 22, 2022 letter signed by Mr. Ortonio. 1385 04:14:39,420 --> 04:14:45,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just to summarize, In that letter, ang pinigay niyong 1386 04:14:46,790 --> 04:14:52,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: maliwanag para sa confidential funds ay para sa tatlong bagay. 1387 04:14:52,230 --> 04:14:53,070 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Good 1388 04:14:55,600 --> 04:15:00,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: governance program, functional representation para 1389 04:15:02,070 --> 04:15:04,610 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa travel ng Pangulo. Tama ba? 1390 04:15:25,240 --> 04:15:35,820 Lemuel G. Ortoño: What we indicated, ma'am, is on the conduct of official engagements and functional representation in domestic and international and domestic events. 1391 04:15:36,480 --> 04:15:49,030 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So, three items, three projects, or three items. You have governance, good governance program, you have official engagements and functional representation. Tama ba? 1392 04:15:49,150 --> 04:15:57,520 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's basically two, ma'am. That's the implementation for good governance program and Conduct of official engagements and functional representation. 1393 04:15:58,140 --> 04:16:11,780 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Thank you, Mr. Antonio. I stand corrected on that. So those two items. Pagdating sa PFP, ang justification for the 2022 PFP and justification was good governance program. Tama ba? 1394 04:16:12,200 --> 04:16:14,840 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the documents earlier. 1395 04:16:15,940 --> 04:16:16,580 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sa 1396 04:16:17,280 --> 04:16:23,180 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: 2023 naman, socio-economic delivery program. Ask and answer, Your Honor, earlier. 1397 04:16:25,040 --> 04:16:25,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm sorry, counsel. 1398 04:16:29,200 --> 04:16:29,660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What 1399 04:16:29,660 --> 04:16:31,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: was the question, attorney May? 1400 04:16:31,320 --> 04:16:36,840 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: For the 2023 certification, Your Honor, the justification was socio-economic delivery program. 1401 04:16:37,500 --> 04:16:50,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On the assumption that she's winding up, attorney Christine, because she said she's summarizing the points that the witness had already answered to. I will allow it. Witness may answer? 1402 04:16:54,910 --> 04:16:55,510 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, Mr. 1403 04:16:55,630 --> 04:16:55,790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Antonio, 1404 04:16:55,970 --> 04:16:59,130 Lemuel G. Ortoño: do you want the question repeated? Yes, can you repeat the question, ma'am? 1405 04:16:59,580 --> 04:17:08,480 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: For the 2023, ang paliwanag niyo para sa confidential funds ay social, dahil gagamitin nito sa social economic delivery program. Tama ba? 1406 04:17:08,620 --> 04:17:10,900 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, as indicated in the document earlier. 1407 04:17:12,590 --> 04:17:13,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At 1408 04:17:13,410 --> 04:17:20,530 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sa mga certifications naman na isinumitin ninyo in response to the AOM, 1409 04:17:22,420 --> 04:17:36,220 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: sinabi dito na ginamit ang confidential funds para sa surveillance to ensure that no untoward incident will happen. Tama ba? 1410 04:17:36,340 --> 04:17:38,000 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, based on the document. 1411 04:17:38,520 --> 04:18:02,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: At para naman, sa sagot nyo sa AOM, pati sa NS, ang sinabi naman ninyo, gagamitin ng confidential funds para sa surveillance activity that would help you determine and identify areas kung saan i-roll out yung mga proyekto ninyo. Tama ba? 1412 04:18:03,000 --> 04:18:08,300 Lemuel G. Ortoño: That's one of the justifications that we indicated. Yes, 1413 04:18:08,300 --> 04:18:11,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: which never appeared in the prior documents. Tama ba? 1414 04:18:11,800 --> 04:18:12,300 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1415 04:18:12,700 --> 04:18:21,280 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So in short, nagbigay kayo ng apat na versyon, apat na rason para sa isang pondo. Tama ba? 1416 04:18:22,350 --> 04:18:23,370 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, please. 1417 04:18:25,160 --> 04:18:27,900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was expecting something, Attorney Christine. Yes. 1418 04:18:28,360 --> 04:18:34,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: It's misleading, Your Honor. Apat na versyon and conclusion of fact. 1419 04:18:37,110 --> 04:18:39,170 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: If I may, Your Honor. 1420 04:18:40,960 --> 04:18:52,560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it, Atty. Christine. The witness is intelligent enough to be able to identify that indeed some answers were different from the previous ones they gave. 1421 04:18:52,800 --> 04:18:53,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: I'm just 1422 04:18:53,020 --> 04:18:54,900 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: not so sure 1423 04:18:54,900 --> 04:18:55,460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: if it's four. 1424 04:18:56,940 --> 04:19:00,980 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just to set the record straight, Your Honor, I did not say four. I mentioned five. 1425 04:19:05,800 --> 04:19:13,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, I don't know the number of versions you have but you do admit that several versions or explanations were given. For 1426 04:19:13,100 --> 04:19:14,560 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: the same expense. 1427 04:19:14,980 --> 04:19:17,440 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There were different justifications. 1428 04:19:18,280 --> 04:19:25,020 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Okay, different justifications for the same fund. For the same confidential fund. Tama ba? 1429 04:19:25,780 --> 04:19:26,800 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Can I clarify? 1430 04:19:27,760 --> 04:19:29,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Just say yes or no. 1431 04:19:29,940 --> 04:19:33,860 Lemuel G. Ortoño: There were four explanations. There 1432 04:19:33,860 --> 04:19:35,400 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: were four explanations for the same fund. 1433 04:19:35,790 --> 04:19:36,650 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. Yes. 1434 04:19:39,350 --> 04:19:48,600 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: So in short, paiba, you will also agree with me, na kapag paiba-iba ang rason, maaaring 1435 04:19:50,780 --> 04:19:57,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: nagsisinungaling lang or talaga namang ito ay isa lamang scam. Your Honor, please. 1436 04:19:59,540 --> 04:20:06,480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You and I both know, Atty. May I have to sustain whatever basis for the objection, Atty. Christine? Yes, Your Honor. 1437 04:20:07,020 --> 04:20:07,280 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Move 1438 04:20:07,280 --> 04:20:07,780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to strike 1439 04:20:07,780 --> 04:20:10,180 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: the scam and nagsisinungaling. 1440 04:20:10,440 --> 04:20:11,980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So stricken off the record. 1441 04:20:12,340 --> 04:20:13,800 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Last item, Your Honor. 1442 04:20:14,120 --> 04:20:15,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, proceed, Attorney May. Okay, 1443 04:20:15,580 --> 04:20:32,950 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, kanina sinabi mo na si Vice President mismo ang humingi ng confidential fund sa simula pa lang. Siya ang humingi ng 250 million mula sa DBM. Tama ba? 1444 04:20:33,910 --> 04:20:34,430 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1445 04:20:34,710 --> 04:20:42,090 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Siya rin ang nag-decide kung anong amount, kung magkaanong amount ang inirequest. Tama ba? Ultimately, sa kanyang nanggaling ang desisyon. Tama ba? 1446 04:20:42,370 --> 04:20:43,330 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. At 1447 04:20:43,330 --> 04:20:48,550 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: pinirmahan niya rin ang approval para sa pag-release ng pondo. Tama ba? 1448 04:20:50,420 --> 04:20:53,160 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Through the disbursement vouchers. Tama ba? 1449 04:20:53,160 --> 04:20:54,540 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. 1450 04:20:54,540 --> 04:21:01,360 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Pinirmahan niya rin ang mga liquidation reports at certification supporting the liquidation reports. Tama ba? 1451 04:21:01,600 --> 04:21:03,200 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes. In 1452 04:21:03,200 --> 04:21:13,190 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: short, you will agree with me This whole confidential funds matter, ang arkitekto at mastermind nito ay si Vice President Sara Duterte. 1453 04:21:13,310 --> 04:21:13,330 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Your Honor, 1454 04:21:13,330 --> 04:21:13,390 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: please. 1455 04:21:15,420 --> 04:21:15,820 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Objection. 1456 04:21:16,460 --> 04:21:16,860 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sustained. 1457 04:21:17,780 --> 04:21:20,020 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Move to 1458 04:21:20,020 --> 04:21:21,380 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: strike, Your Honor, the 1459 04:21:21,380 --> 04:21:21,800 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: statement. 1460 04:21:22,160 --> 04:21:24,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: May we request, Your Honor, that it remain on record. May 1461 04:21:24,820 --> 04:21:26,300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I request you likewise to... Move 1462 04:21:26,300 --> 04:21:28,940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to strike, Your Honor. I will have to strike it off, counsel. 1463 04:21:31,290 --> 04:21:43,690 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: kindly replace it with words that are more acceptable such as that everything was approved by and with the consent of or with the full knowledge of, it's up to you. I don't want to put words in your mouth. 1464 04:21:45,280 --> 04:22:00,410 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Mr. Antonio, she was the architect. Yung confidential funds na to, objection, kung paano ito i-disperse at gagamitin, i-utilize, objection. Siya ang architect ng buong ito. 1465 04:22:00,650 --> 04:22:29,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will have to sustain the objection again, counsel. Allow me. Mr. Antonio, lahat ng nangyayari at ginawa kaugnay ng confidential fund mula sa paghingi nito sa DBM, sa paggastos, kung paano ito ginastos, paano ito nilikwidate, kasabay na yung mga sagot na binigay kaugnay sa OEM, notice of suspension and notice of disallowance, lahat ito ay alam, nasa ilalim ng supervision, pinahintulutan at inotorisa. ng ikalawang Pangulo. 1466 04:22:32,890 --> 04:22:34,990 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Wait. Gusto mo 1467 04:22:34,990 --> 04:22:35,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: i-say nito? Can 1468 04:22:35,830 --> 04:22:36,030 Lemuel G. Ortoño: you 1469 04:22:36,030 --> 04:22:36,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: repeat, 1470 04:22:36,670 --> 04:22:37,350 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Your Honor? 1471 04:22:38,050 --> 04:23:13,520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lahat ng bagay kaugnay sa Confidential Fund mula sa pag-request, sa pag-release, sa pag-encash, sa pag-gastos, sa pag-liquidate, sa pag-sagot sa mga AOM, Notice of Suspension, at Notice of Disallowance, ay una, nalalaman ng ikalawang Pangulo. Pangalawa, Inotoriza niya, basis sa mga pirma niya sa iba't ibang dokumento. At pangatlo, ay nasa ilalim ng kanyang supervision bilang head of agency. Would that be an accurate statement or tell me if it's not? 1472 04:23:15,250 --> 04:23:31,640 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Based on my understanding, sir, and based on what I know, sir, yes, the Vice President knows about the confidential activities and how it is being implemented. 1473 04:23:32,340 --> 04:23:44,820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll proceed further. May ginawa ka ba na hindi alam o inauthorized ni Vice President Sara kaugnay sa confidential funds kasabay na yung pagsagot mo sa mga AOM, Notice of Suspension and Disallowance? 1474 04:23:45,300 --> 04:23:46,560 Lemuel G. Ortoño: None, Your Honor. 1475 04:23:46,780 --> 04:23:48,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Lahat alam niya at inauthorized niya? 1476 04:23:48,900 --> 04:23:49,720 Lemuel G. Ortoño: Yes, Your Honor. 1477 04:23:49,900 --> 04:24:04,030 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa pagkakaalam mo, may ginawa ba si Gina o si Colonel Lachica? kaugnay ng confidential funds mula sa disbursement, mula sa withdrawal, disbursement, at liquidation na hindi nalalaman o inotorisa ng ikalawang Pangulo. If you know. 1478 04:24:04,470 --> 04:24:10,670 Lemuel G. Ortoño: As to Ms. Gina and Col. LaChica, Your Honor, I would have no personal knowledge on it. 1479 04:24:10,750 --> 04:24:11,230 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. 1480 04:24:12,150 --> 04:24:12,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any 1481 04:24:12,630 --> 04:24:13,010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: final 1482 04:24:13,010 --> 04:24:15,170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: questions, Atty. May? 1483 04:24:15,350 --> 04:24:15,870 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: That would be all 1484 04:24:15,870 --> 04:24:18,050 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: for your direction, Your Honor. Your Honor, please. 1485 04:24:18,670 --> 04:24:20,490 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Atty. Christine, rather. 1486 04:24:21,450 --> 04:24:28,310 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Before we release the witness and adjourn, Your Honor, there is a 1487 04:24:28,310 --> 04:25:08,450 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: consensus, Your Honor, that we will ask the court, the respondent would like to ask the court to remind the prosecution, Your Honor, not to use inappropriate words, Your Honor, like scam, mastermind, nagsisinungaling. This is the third time, Your Honor, that we have heard those words, specifically the word scam. This is a solemn proceeding. This is a court of law. This is a court of procedure and actually a court of decorum. And we are not supposed to make insinuations, accusations, or conclusions, Your Honor. So we request the court to kindly remind the prosecution. 1488 04:25:09,270 --> 04:25:48,540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, I agree with counsel. Earlier, the court made an admonition and reminder to the counsel for the panel of prosecutors. but did not strike out those statements but subsequent similar statements made were stricken off from the record by the presiding officer. But it does seem that it's becoming a I would rather use the word habit than pattern for the panel of prosecutors to close their direct with such strong statements. So kindly, yes, what is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Cayetano? 1489 04:25:49,870 --> 04:26:01,890 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. Senate President, dear colleagues. I'd just like to take note that the Presiding Officer made the ruling. 1490 04:26:03,570 --> 04:26:30,540 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: We all know the intention and the duties of the prosecution. We admire your passion in trying to prove your allegations. But we're also all aware that the medium is the messenger. So, during the time of radio and even TV, you make that statement and then it is stricken off the record, it's forgotten. 1491 04:26:32,870 --> 04:29:06,040 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: There's no, if I can use the word, mind conditioning. And in fact, when I first became a senator in 2007, talagang hahanapin mo talaga yung records. That's why, even here, kapag ka may disagreements, and medyo nadala ng emotion, pinapa-strike off the record. At pagka sa labas ng Senate nangyari, naghahamunan ng, you say that here, para magsagutan tayo. So the problem nga with coming up with words especially, and this is for both sides and even for the Senate, senator-judges, when we use certain words that can be sa Tagalog, bansag, binansagan mo na, binansagan mo na na scam or scammer, binansagan mo na na. na nagnakaw, etc. So, personally, I don't mind if you use words that is already in your pleadings or in your articles of impeachment. But of course, it still should come from the witness unless you can frame it in a way that it's not only the dignity of the court. I'm just saying, let's all be aware that when we say it, even if we say withdrawn or even, both sides, kahit sabihin mong withdrawn na to, kahit sabihin mong nice try, nice try, etc. We know that that's for the cameras, not just for the court. Kaming 24, whether we watch it here, we watch it in our cellphone, we watch it inside, kami mag-de-decide. But we all know we're also trying to convince you, not we. The prosecution and defense is trying to convince the public that either the vice president or her office or whoever is guilty or innocent. Yun lang, let's be circumspect without pointing fingers to anyone, both sides. Dahil nga kapag ka may certain word na may not only negative but may emotional attachment, magbabiral na yan. And it will really affect the integrity not only of the court but of the decision sa huli. Diba? So, I just like to agree with you and emphasize na, you know, in the future if you say that nagkamali, Let's not kid each other. Kahit kaming mga senator-judges, nagkakamali din kami. Lalo pag nag-i-interview na or nagkaharap na yung vloggers or yung traditional media. But once masabi mo, it takes a life of its own. Diba? Those words. So we have to really be more circumspect in choosing our words. I 1492 04:29:06,040 --> 04:29:10,640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: will allow Attorney May to comment before we proceed with other administrative matters. Yes, Attorney May? 1493 04:29:10,920 --> 04:29:12,820 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Well, Your Honor, we apologize if 1494 04:29:14,340 --> 04:29:22,660 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Sometimes we get carried away by our zeal and our passion, Your Honor. But we at the prosecution, we just want to call a spade a spade. 1495 04:29:23,460 --> 04:29:25,240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Within limits, you may. 1496 04:29:25,420 --> 04:29:31,520 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Yes, Your Honor. But henceforth, to borrow the words of my colleague, Your Honor, we will try to behave. 1497 04:29:31,720 --> 04:29:38,080 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That will be part of the chair's ruling as well. However, since we're ending at 2.30, Attorney Christine, your cross will proceed tomorrow? 1498 04:29:38,900 --> 04:29:39,620 Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer: Yes, Your Honor. 1499 04:29:40,010 --> 04:30:16,840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and redirect and recross as well. But with the permission of the counsel for the parties, the chair will begin the proceedings tomorrow with its ruling in regard to the August 12th manifestation of Attorney Sheila. So we will begin tomorrow with Attorney Ligutan giving him his five minutes of explanation or not longer than that. The ruling, and then we'll proceed with your cross, Attorney Christine, and then your redirect and recross, if any, by Attorney May and Attorney Christine, respectively. In the meantime, before we adjourn, for the information of Senator-Judges, according to the Senate President, we shall convene session at 3 p.m. 1500 04:30:18,700 --> 04:31:26,700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Court acknowledges the report of the Clerk of Court with respect to the comparison of the acknowledgement receipts and directs the Clerk of Court. to furnish a copy of its findings which the Presiding Officer initially mentioned last week to the Council for the Parties as well as the Senator-Judges. So ordered. In relation to the condition of Edward Fajarda, I am in receipt of a report by Dr. Sison, the Bureau Director of the Medical and Dental Bureau of the Senate, confirming the condition of Mr. Eduardo Fajarda that he is recommended to be to have bed rest or to rest for two weeks which began last August 20 and which shall end on August on rather September 3. Chair therefore instructs the Clerk of Court to issue the corresponding subpoena in the subsequent trial date on September 7. 1501 04:31:28,570 --> 04:32:06,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2026 at 10 a.m. The court would also like to note and point out the manifestation yesterday of Attorney Sheila on the five-day notice rule. Let me check the TSN just to make sure. The five-day notice rule applies to witnesses not mentioned in the pretrial order. In regard to witnesses mentioned in the pretrial order, it will not apply, although as the chair already stated yesterday, You still have enough time, Attorney Sheila, because I think you will be able to cross Colonel, who's the first, would you know, Attorney May, who's the first witness, if ever, that you will call a Colonel? 1502 04:32:06,540 --> 04:32:08,100 Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia: Colonel Boransing, Your Honor. 1503 04:32:08,360 --> 04:32:19,650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If at all, the cross-examination of Colonel Boransing will happen on a Monday, so you still have more than enough time to prepare for your cross of the good Colonel. 1504 04:32:22,030 --> 04:32:25,630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then Tuesday, then more than enough time. Yes, Attorney Sheila. 1505 04:32:25,910 --> 04:32:27,570 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Good afternoon, 1506 04:32:27,670 --> 04:32:27,830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ma'am. 1507 04:32:28,970 --> 04:33:34,990 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, I would just like to return to the Presiding Officer's statement on the application of the five-day ruling or schedule for the disclosure of the witness. If I may just be clarified, because as far as I recall, this five-day ruling was a product of The proposal and counterproposal between the prosecution defense during the pre-trial stage. In fact, when the prosecution submitted its proposal, its written proposal, the initial proposal by the prosecution was only for a three-day prior period to disclose the witnesses, but we counterproposed that parties be allowed at least five days so that each party may be given ample time to prepare for the examination of the witnesses. And so I'm partly confused, Your Honor, as to the statement that the five-day rule only applies as to the witnesses who were not disclosed in the pretrial order. When 1508 04:33:34,990 --> 04:34:30,430 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we checked, counsel, that was the ruling on the chair, in fact, twice, in fact. However, having said that, this situation is unique, as pointed out by the lead prosecutor yesterday. because their intended witness is unavailable because of an ailment and that they had to fill in with a new witness who is in the pretrial order. And given the amount of time being spent on the witnesses and the interjection of judges, in any case, you will still have your five days. In fact, more than five days, Attorney Sheila, for this witness. And the presiding officer will be conscious of the fact that as much as possible, The witnesses for the following week should be announced by the lead prosecutor on a Wednesday the week before to afford ample time for both sides to prepare even when your time comes, attorney Sheila, to 1509 04:34:30,430 --> 04:35:01,830 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: present your evidence. I understand, Your Honor, but if I may just be allowed also to explain further my concern. My concern is that if this is the new rule moving forward that It would seem to me that there would be no more period or prior period to be observed in relation to the disclosure of witnesses for the following days or hearing dates, then that would be a concern not only for the defense but also for the prosecution when the time comes for the defense to present its witnesses. 1510 04:35:03,690 --> 04:35:50,140 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: And also, I recall that at the start of this trial, the court made it clear that as the presiding officer had said the parties must disclose their intended witnesses for the next week at the end of the hearing schedule for the week prior and so even if I do not want to dispute what the Presiding Officer had said regarding the TSN or the records about this ruling, but just so parties are guided, may we now ask if the five-day prior rule will still govern the proceeding moving forward? As a 1511 04:35:50,140 --> 04:35:50,200 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: rule, 1512 04:35:50,420 --> 04:36:36,100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: subsequent witnesses for the following week should be announced in open court. The Wednesday of the previous week. So kung sino man po yung mga testigo, sa darating na linggo, lunes hanggang martes, miyerkules, dapat sabihin na sa huling araw ng paglilitis ng linggo bago yung susunod na linggo. Maliba na lang, ulitin ko, kapag may pagkakataon tulad ngayon na medyo kakaiba naman, parang hindi masayang yung oras at panahon ng husgado, kakaintay sa testigong hindi maganda ang karamdaman. So as a rule, counsel, yes, and we will make sure to afford time. And if you cannot, if you need more time, the court will be lenient in order to provide adequate time to prepare in fairness for both parties, not only the counsel for respondent. 1513 04:36:36,200 --> 04:36:36,700 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor, 1514 04:36:36,780 --> 04:36:37,000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: please 1515 04:36:37,000 --> 04:36:38,540 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: submit with that clarification. Thank 1516 04:36:38,540 --> 04:36:40,380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you. Your Honor, just 1517 04:36:40,380 --> 04:36:41,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for purposes of clarity, 1518 04:36:42,240 --> 04:36:42,720 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Your Honor. 1519 04:36:42,900 --> 04:36:44,180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Your Honor. Because 1520 04:36:44,180 --> 04:37:07,830 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: we acknowledge that we are still adopting and maintaining the certain number of days required. before the hearing for the succeeding week. But I understand the concern of Attorney Sheila from five days. Perhaps we can place it on record to change the five-day notice rule to four-day notice rule. That is to be consistent with Wednesday, Your Honor, as the submission of the witnesses for the succeeding week. 1521 04:37:08,110 --> 04:37:31,280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's the same, counsel. Wednesday, Monday would be the fifth day, so that's still five days. It's not necessarily five days prior. Let's stick to what was originally agreed and by way of exception, as the need arises, we will cross the bridge when we get there and still ensure that both parties will be given adequate time and will be given fair shake to 1522 04:37:31,280 --> 04:37:32,040 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: prepare for 1523 04:37:32,040 --> 04:37:32,360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the witness. 1524 04:37:32,580 --> 04:37:32,620 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Thank you, Your Honor. Just 1525 04:37:32,620 --> 04:37:34,860 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: one more point, Your Honor. Yes, Attorney Sheila. Just to 1526 04:37:34,860 --> 04:37:44,880 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: avoid any ambiguity, may we also request a disclosure be made via email, Your Honor. so that the disclosure be received by the other party. Via 1527 04:37:44,880 --> 04:37:49,920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: email before the trial on Wednesday? Because on a Wednesday, we'll hear it anyway. 1528 04:37:50,020 --> 04:37:53,560 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We're okay at the end of the trial day on Wednesday. But 1529 04:37:53,560 --> 04:37:54,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we'll hear it anyway in open court. 1530 04:37:54,920 --> 04:38:01,860 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Well, whether they do it in the morning or if they choose to do it after the hearing on Wednesday. And one 1531 04:38:01,860 --> 04:38:33,730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: more thing, Honorable Luistro, Chair would like to remind the prosecution to kindly... Submit the proposed circumstances or stipulation, facts for stipulation and documents for stipulation at least a day before the witness is set to be presented so that the counsel-correspondent will have ample time to review, study it, and hopefully shorten the proceedings by stipulating to it. Same ruling applies to the counsel-correspondents when their time comes to present their evidence in chief. 1532 04:38:33,990 --> 04:38:35,450 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: We know the instructions, Your Honor. 1533 04:38:40,250 --> 04:38:42,950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Zubiri? 1534 04:38:43,230 --> 04:39:01,720 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Yes, thank you very much, Mr. President. Before we adjourn today's session, I'd just like to ask, broad strokes, the timelines moving forward for the impeachment proceedings because we're also entering the budget season. As a matter of fact, Monday to Wednesday, 1535 04:39:04,190 --> 04:40:55,090 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Well, ako kasi majority leader po tayo, so I'm last to leave. So 9 to 8, nandito po ako, kasama na ibang mga kasamahan ko dito. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is hearing of our committees. And we have only one day to have our committee hearings. And so, we just like to be guided accordingly. Once the budget starts being discussed, all departments will be coming here. Thursday, Friday, Saturday siguro, abo tayo ng Saturday. So wala nang pahinga yung mga staff natin. I just want to know from the presiding officer, what is the plan? Are we going to take this all the way up to December? Because Burmans are fast approaching. I think in two weeks time, Jose Marichan will be singing again in all the malls. Kidding aside, we just need to be guided accordingly for our legislative calendar as well, Mr. President. Just broad strokes, maybe from the prosecution, do we know, are we going to finish this before the December break? Because we want to know if we're going to continue all the way till February on this topic so that in the legislative calendar, we can also make adjustments. We have a legislative calendar that we approve both houses. So at least we... uh also if there's an impeachment calendar then we can be guided accordingly because the chairman of the committee on finance is heavily stressed out uh every time i see him he doesn't know how we're going to have the hearings all together mr president mr presiding officer just some queries uh administrative queries so that we can move forward and make the both the impeachment calendar and the legislative calendar work for the for these two proceedings which is basically the impeachment and legislations. To 1536 04:40:55,090 --> 04:42:36,880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: respond to Senator Judge Zubiri in broad strokes, the Presiding Officer is optimistic and hopeful that we will complete these proceedings before the end of the year. Second, we will be having a more specific schedule for the impeachment once our Chair of the Committee on Finance comes up with his calendar for the deliberation on the budget. Given that that is the most important piece of legislation that the Senate as a legislative body is supposed to pass, we have to allocate enough time for that to ensure its passage before the end of the year, giving due consideration to the bicameral conference committee as well as inputs coming from the House of Representatives through the GAB. So once that comes out, Senator-Judge Zubiri, we can... roughly give you a picture and idea with respect to the timeline and the schedule and if we will shift and if we will indeed shift how and when. Also for the information of the parties. There be no other matters to take up and discuss. Again tomorrow we shall have your first the cross-examination of Mr. Ortonio but before that The comment of Attorney Ligutan, the ruling of the chair with respect to the August 12th manifestation of Attorney Sheila, and then redirect, recross, and intervention of the senator-judges in relation to Mr. Ortonio, and if we still have enough time for the prosecution's next witness. There'll be no other points to take up. Trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, August 26th at 10 1537 04:42:36,880 --> 04:42:37,580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: a.m.