# August 25, 2026

Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Duterte

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBtjrfKKzuw
Status: Reviewed working draft, revision 4

**[00:05:52.110] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
This

**[00:05:52.370] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
is directed to

**[00:05:53.010] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
make a proclamation.

**[00:05:55.300] Alfredo Sotto Corpuz**  
All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the impeachment court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman-Duterte.

**[00:06:06.820] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman-Duterte is hereby called to order. Let us rise for a minute of silent prayer.

**[00:06:32.670] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
Amen.

**[00:06:35.500] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
The clerk of court will now call the roll.

**[00:06:41.580] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
senator-judge, Cayetano-Alan, senator-judge, Cayetano-Pia, senator-judge, De La Rosa, senator-judge, Ejercito, senator-judge, Estrada, senator-judge, Goh, senator-judge, Hontiveros, senator-judge, Lacson, senator-judge, Lapid, senator-judge, Legarda, senator-judge, Marcoleta, senator-judge, Marcos, senator-judge, Padilla, senator-judge, Pangilinan, senator-judge, Soto III, senator-judge, Tulfo Erwin, senator-judge, Tulfo Raffy. senator-judge Villanueva, senator-judge Villar-Camil, senator-judge Villar-Marc, senator-judge Zubiri, the presiding officer, senator-judge Escudero, the Senate President, senator-judge Gatchalian.

**[00:07:22.300] Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian**  
With 15 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

**[00:07:54.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If there are not, thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the August 24, 2026 Journal of the Senate, Citizens and Impeachment Court, and shall consider the same as approved. The Clerk of Court will kindly call the case before the Impeachment Court.

**[00:08:12.610] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Case number 004-2026, in the matter of impeachment trial of Vice President, Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

**[00:08:22.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Appearances of the parties.

**[00:08:23.250] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Same appearance for the prosecution, Your Honors. We're ready.

**[00:08:27.390] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearance for the respondent accused.

**[00:08:33.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you. We are in receipt. Before we proceed to our next witness, I believe it's going to be Mr. Ortoño. We are in receipt of a request for stipulation with respect to certain circumstances and documents from the prosecution. Is that correct? Do you confirm, Honorable Choa?

**[00:08:59.530] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:09:00.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We got a copy of the one The lead counsel for respondent already responded to the request for stipulation for Eduardo Fajarda yesterday, I believe, and only stipulated to the first two points. Now this one for Ortoño, we got it only last night. May I ask the counsel for respondent when you got the request for stipulation? We

**[00:09:26.220] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
also received this just last night, Your Honor, by email.

**[00:09:29.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Is there an equal request for stipulation with respect to documents?

**[00:09:35.460] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
I believe, Your Honor, that on the third page of this new request for stipulation with respect to Mr. Lemuel Ortoño, there are certain documents that the prosecution requests for stipulation. But this will be addressed during the presentation and the cross-examination of the witness, Your Honor.

**[00:09:57.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So can you already comment on the request for stipulation with respect to Ortoño, Attorney Sheila?

**[00:10:05.150] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We can, Your Honor. We can only stipulate on items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7.

**[00:10:21.760] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That's it, Your Honor.

**[00:10:24.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor.

**[00:10:27.140] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hold on, Honorable Chua. In regard to the documents, Attorney Sheila, some of these, if not all, I haven't checked actually individually because this is a different list from the list of documents that I have that Ortonio may identify based on our own study of the pretrial. Order and markings. How about the documents, Attorney?

**[00:10:52.280] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
That's our concern, Your Honor, since we only received this last night and this is inconsistent also with the order of this court that any request for stipulation must be provided to the other party at least one day before the hearing, Your Honor. And therefore, we would prefer to hear first the comment of the prosecution on this witness and we will respond accordingly afterwards, Your Honor. And also, Your Honor, I will ask later on at the start of the presentation of the witness for another counsel to be acknowledged and recognized. At

**[00:11:29.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the appropriate

**[00:11:29.900] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
time, Attorney Sison.

**[00:11:30.940] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:11:31.540] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Yes, Honorable Chua. Can I now, Your Honor, turn over to the counsel for the prosecution, Attorney May Divina Gracia?

**[00:11:39.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May

**[00:11:40.630] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
Divina Gracia, Your Honor.

**[00:11:43.590] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Will be the one handling. Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:11:47.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We're not yet there, counsel. I'm still at the point of trying to abbreviate the proceedings, at least with respect to the documents.

**[00:11:57.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And to give a shot at the counsel for respondents looking at the documents, how many are common documents or common exhibits? Because to the mind of the presiding officer, counsels, if it is a common exhibit, meaning marked by both parties separately, Unless there is a proof or allegation of fraud and or probable mistake or absence of regularity, then it would have to be proven through the witness. However, absent that, the court can take it as already being authentic and its due execution having been established without need of proof through the identification of a witness. If there is that chance, the court is willing to give the parties a few minutes while the court is discussing its ruling with respect to the point raised by Attorney Sheila last August 12, which will take roughly about 20 to 25 minutes. Would that be enough time, Attorney Sheila, for you to go over the documents?

**[00:13:05.960] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
I think, Your Honor,

**[00:13:05.980] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
we'll just need around five minutes. We're amenable to some stipulation under item number 25, except for item number 25B. and V, Beta and Victor, Your Honor, because these are not common exhibits. But with the rest of the items under number 25, we probably will just be needing five minutes to see the prosecution's documents.

**[00:13:36.390] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
return to this court with a response to the request for stipulation. Five

**[00:13:40.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
minutes? If it's five minutes, the court will defer its ruling on your August 12th manifestation and just simply give you five minutes before we call Ortoño. Thank you, Your

**[00:13:48.750] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Honor.

**[00:13:49.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay, five minutes. Court declares a brief recess

**[00:13:51.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
in order for the parties to be able to stipulate on the documents they will be presenting to the witness Ortoño to save on the court's

**[00:14:00.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
time. Trial is in recess.

**[00:14:02.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Trial

**[00:19:52.000] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
is resumed.

**[00:19:56.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May we hear from the counsel for the respondent with respect to the proposed stipulations on item number 25 in regard to the documents?

**[00:20:08.860] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We can stipulate on item number 25, Your Honor, and on the documents listed under that paragraph from A to V, Your Honor.

**[00:20:20.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
From Alpha to Victory?

**[00:20:22.260] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Yes, Your Honor, subject to comment on the eventual offer.

**[00:20:25.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you very much, counsel. Thank you for helping the court in abbreviating the proceedings. Now, Honorable Chua, who again will be the one to present the witness, Ortonio?

**[00:20:36.340] Rep. Joel R. Chua**  
The counsel for the prosecution, Attorney May Divina Gracia.

**[00:20:42.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney May Divina Gracia, you are recognized, ma'am.

**[00:20:47.540] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor.

**[00:20:49.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney Sheila,

**[00:20:50.400] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
on the part of the

**[00:20:51.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
respondents.

**[00:20:52.300] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
May I also ask that Attorney Christine Ferrer be recognized as counsel for the defense today, Your Honor, for

**[00:21:02.100] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
this witness.

**[00:21:03.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Ferrer is

**[00:21:07.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
recognized. Thank you,

**[00:21:09.420] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor.

**[00:21:11.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Good

**[00:21:12.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
morning, Your

**[00:21:12.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honors. Is it correct to address you, Attorney May?

**[00:21:15.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:21:16.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So it'll be Attorney May and Attorney Christine.

**[00:21:19.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[00:21:22.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Call your witness, Attorney May.

**[00:21:25.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we would like to call to the witness stand our sixth witness in the person of Mr. Lemuel G. Ortonio.

**[00:21:32.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court is directed through the OSAA to kindly situate Mr. Ortonio at the witness stand.

**[00:22:04.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Clerk of Court is directed to administer the oath to the witness.

**[00:22:08.330] Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.**  
Mr. Ortonio, please raise your right hand. You, Lemuel G. Ortonio, do swear that the evidence you shall give In the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.

**[00:22:27.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly place on the record because it was inaudible that the witness responded in the affirmative by saying yes.

**[00:22:36.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney May, your witness for direct examination, kindly make the offer.

**[00:22:40.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor, but before we proceed to our offer, Your Honor, we would like to Just to read for the record, the matters that were already stipulated, Your Honor, for avoidance of doubt.

**[00:22:50.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may do so, counsel. You may proceed.

**[00:22:53.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, first, that the witness, Mr. Lemuel G. Ortoño, is the Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff of the Office of the Vice President. Second, he holds the position of Assistant Secretary at salary grade 29.

**[00:23:12.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Third, his appointment is coterminous with the term of the Vice President.

**[00:23:20.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And fourth,

**[00:23:22.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
his position is one of trust and confidence. May the defense kindly confirm if those are all the matters that you're willing to stipulate on, as well as, sorry, Your Honor, they're also stipulating on the authenticity and the genuine execution of the documents listed in paragraph 25 of the request for stipulation.

**[00:23:46.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine?

**[00:23:47.320] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor, subject to cross-examination.

**[00:23:51.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Duly noted. Kindly proceed with your offer, Attorney May.

**[00:23:55.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honors, we are offering the testimony of Mr. Lembel G. Ortoño to qualify him as a hostile witness and to prove the following. Number one, the confidential funds answered to no legitimate confidential purpose.

**[00:24:16.430] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The amount was requested before the supporting plan was produced and the 2023 plan just repeated the operative language of the 2022 plan. Nauna ang 250 million, sumunod ang plano, matapos itong hingin ng DBM. Hindi plano ang nagtakda ng halaga. Ang halaga ang nauna, saka hinabol ang plano. Number two, the respondent's handprints are in every document that mattered. Mula request hanggang liquidation, Nasa mahalagang dokumento ang kanyang otoridad at pag-apruba. Number three, the reports were written to fit the rules, not the facts. Apat na ulat, iisang template. Mga halagang hindi nagbabago at laging eksaktong 125 million. Not a peso more, not a centavo less. Walang natira, Walang sinaulit. Number four. Five days after COWA questioned the medical and food aid item, the line disappeared while the report still totaled exactly 125 million. Quinestron ng Commission on Audit ang medical and food aid na may halagang 40 million, 42 million, at 40 million sa tatlong unang accomplishment reports. Makalipas ang limang araw, wala na ito sa huling accomplishment report. Pero 125 million pa rin ang kabuuhan ng halaga. Number five. In two years, not one area, not one operation was ever named. Daang-daang area ang iniulat. 500 million ang ginastos. Ngunit wala ni isang lugar, ni isang operasyon. ni isang petsa ang pinangalanan. Number six, the liquidation was late, irregular, and backdated. Sampung buwan huli ang mga resibo. Mahigit isang daan ang may petsang isang taon pagkatapos ng diumanoy bayaran. Number seven, the certifications vouched for nothing and were signed by the man who received the money. Walang untoward incident. Iyan lamang ang pinatutunayan. Walang halaga, walang pangalan, walang lugar at walang petsa. At ang pumirma, ang mismong tumanggap ng pera. Number eight. The 500 million bought protection the Vice President already had. And against threats, the AFP and the PNP were already paid billions to watch.

**[00:27:27.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
473 sundalo at polis na ang nagbabantay sa kanya. Sahod ng Republika. Mula sa ibang pondo. Walang pangalawang Pangulo sa kasaysayan ang nagkaroon ng ganito. At ang mga bantang tinutukoy sa mga ulat, ang NPA at mga teroristang grupo. Sakop na ng intelligence funds ng AFP at PNP. Bayad na ang proteksyon. Bayad na ang pagbabantay bago pa ang kahit isang piso ng confidential funds. Number nine, the justification for the confidential funds shifted with every finding. Sa DBM, safe implementation ng good governance programs, official engagements, and functional representation ng pangalawang Pangulo. Sa mga plano, confidence building. for good governance programs. At pagsapit ng 2023, socio-economic program delivery. Sa mga certifications, surveillance and information gathering to prevent and toward incidents from transpiring. Sa protective intelligence operations reports for intelligence gathering naman. Sa mga sagot sa audit observation memoranda at notices or at notice of suspension. for surveillance activities to determine where best to implement the OVP's programs. Anim na bersyon, iisang pondo. Number 10. The officials knew, answered nothing. The man who says he knew nothing, answered everything. Lahat ng sagot sa COA, pirma ng kistigong ito na ang sabi wala siyang personal na kaalaman. Ang mga tunay na nakakaalam, respondent vice president, special disbursing officer, at ang Colonel, wala ni isang sumagot. Number 11, the explanations for the confidential funds are a sham. And the failure to account the funds gives rise to the presumption of misappropriation. Pabago-bago ang paliwanag, walang detalye, walang dokumentong sumusuporta, pagtatakip, hindi pagpapaliwanag. At hanggang ngayon, hindi na-account ang 500 million ng bayan. Sa ganitong kabiguan, At atas na mismo ang nagsasalita, prima facie, na ipinalalagay na ang pondo ay ginamit para sa sariling kapakanan. That would be all for your

**[00:30:09.460] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor.

**[00:30:10.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Comment, Attorney Christine?

**[00:30:12.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor. We note that the 11 items that were mentioned by the prosecution are all conclusions of fact and law, Your Honor. And actually, they are... Mayor's speculations and conjectures, Your Honor, not being proven before this honorable court and they are all theories and with all due respect, soundbites, Your Honor. Nevertheless, we will cross-examine the witness to verify the allegations or to disprove the allegations of the prosecution.

**[00:30:49.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
They may be statements of fact or law, counsel, but that's what they seek to prove.

**[00:30:57.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Through this witness, hopefully, by declaring him as a hostile witness in due time. Duly noted, comment of the counsel for responders noted, you may proceed with your direct examination, Attorney May.

**[00:31:08.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, before I proceed, we would just like to request for a continuing authority for our assisting counsel, Attorney Oliver Sikaidot, to approach the witness and... present and confront him with the necessary and relevant documents whenever we mention those documents.

**[00:31:26.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted, as well as who would be the counterpart assisting counsel from the respondent, Attorney Christine?

**[00:31:31.410] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor, Attorney David Gola.

**[00:31:34.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted, insofar as both parties are concerned in regard to their respective assisting counsels who may approach the witness at any time during the direct and cross.

**[00:31:42.430] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And also, Your Honor, we request a similar continuing authority. for us to flash on the screen the relevant documents when mentioned for the appreciation of this honorable court and of everyone, Your Honor.

**[00:31:57.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted likewise, including a similar grant with counsel for respondent should she decide to do so as well during her cross.

**[00:32:06.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[00:32:08.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You

**[00:32:09.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
may proceed,

**[00:32:09.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel, when you're ready.

**[00:32:11.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. Good morning, Mr. Antonio.

**[00:32:13.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Good morning, Ma'am Maimbunta. Good morning.

**[00:32:16.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, naiintindihan ko po na ikaw ngayon ay nagsisilbing Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff sa Office of the Vice President. Tama po ba?

**[00:32:27.250] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po.

**[00:32:28.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kailan naman po kayo nagsimulang manungkulan bilang Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff sa Office of the Vice President?

**[00:32:36.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I started working as the Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff last July 2022.

**[00:32:43.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, Mr. Antonio, at whose pleasure do you serve those positions?

**[00:32:48.810] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I report directly to the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte.

**[00:32:54.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And prior to becoming Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff, saan naman po kayo nagtatrabaho kung meron man?

**[00:33:03.090] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I used to work with the City Government of Davao as the head of the Human Resource Management Office.

**[00:33:13.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Time po na yon na nagsilbi kayo ng head ng Human Resource Management. Sino naman po ang mayor ng panaw ngayon?

**[00:33:21.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The mayor at the time is the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte.

**[00:33:25.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And when did you serve as such? As head of the Human Resource Department of the City Government of Davao City?

**[00:33:34.120] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I started working as the head of the Human Resource Management Office in 2018.

**[00:33:42.190] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
starting 2018.

**[00:33:43.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And, kanina naman po kayo nagre-report nung nanulungkulan kayo bilang head of the resource, human resource department?

**[00:33:52.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As the head of the human resource, as the department head, I report directly to the mayor and as well have reportorial duties to the city administrator.

**[00:34:04.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Prior to that, Mr. Ortonio, ano naman po ang inyong naging katungkulan kung meron man? City Government of Davao City.

**[00:34:12.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Prior to being the Human Resource Head, I also headed the Davao City Investment Promotion Center. That's from 2016 all the way to 2018 as well. And then in 2010 to 2013, I served as the Chief of Staff of the Office of the Mayor.

**[00:34:35.110] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
2008 until 2010, I served as the chief of staff under the office of the vice mayor.

**[00:34:41.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Isa-isa yun po natin. Noong nanungkulan kayo bilang head ng Davao City Investment and Promotion Center, sino naman po ang nanungkulan bilang mayor ng Davao City at that time?

**[00:34:53.540] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The mayor at the time is Vice President Sara Duterte.

**[00:34:57.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Noong time naman po nanungkulan kayo bilang chief of staff, sino naman po ang nanungkulan? bilang Mayor at the time.

**[00:35:05.530] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
It's the Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte.

**[00:35:08.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At huli, noong nanungkulan kayo noong 2008 onwards, sino naman po ang nanungkulan? Or ano, sino naman po ang nanungkulan bilang Vice Mayor at the time?

**[00:35:21.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The Vice Mayor at the time is Vice President, Sara Z. Duterte.

**[00:35:27.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, prior to 2008, saan kayo nanungkulan o nagtatrabaho kung meron na?

**[00:35:32.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Prior to 2008, I worked with a government-owned and controlled corporation and I also worked at a local chamber of commerce.

**[00:35:44.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Maari niyo pong banggitin sa korte na ito kung saan po iyon, yung mga kumpanyang iyon?

**[00:35:50.840] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
My first working experience was with the Pag-ibig Fund. That was four years and then I worked around four or about four to six months with the Davao City Chamber of Commerce.

**[00:36:02.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you.

**[00:36:05.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, in October 2024, ano naman po ang mga compulsory processes, if any, na natanggap ninyo mula sa House Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability?

**[00:36:20.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I was invited to appear before the committee hearings for the Committee on Good Governance. At

**[00:36:29.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa ano-anong pecha naman po kayo inimbitahang mag-appear?

**[00:36:34.190] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As to the exact dates, ma'am, I cannot remember anymore the exact dates. However, there were several invitations that were extended to me.

**[00:36:45.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Several invitations or several hearings?

**[00:36:48.220] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's

**[00:36:48.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
correct. Ano naman po ang naging tugon ninyo dun sa mga ibat-ibang imbitasyon na yun?

**[00:36:57.840] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
One of the reasons there was that it's a mere invitation.

**[00:37:01.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm sorry, Mr. Antonio, I have to cut you. Please just be responsive so as not to waste this honorable court's time. The question is merely, what was your response to those invitations for you to appear? You mentioned several.

**[00:37:15.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
What

**[00:37:15.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
was your response? The

**[00:37:16.980] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
response was, I will not attend the hearings.

**[00:37:20.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, so that was your response. What, if any, judicial remedy did you seek? against those invitations.

**[00:37:31.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Did

**[00:37:35.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you ask for

**[00:37:36.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
injunctive relief against the compulsion or the invitation for you to attend the hearings mentioned in those invitations?

**[00:37:46.340] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The reason, ma'am, was that it's a mere

**[00:37:49.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
invitation. Again, Mr. Antonio, I'm sorry, I don't want to be difficult, but again, let me just remind you to please be just responsive to the question. The question is simply, What judicial relief, if any, did you apply for in response to those invitations?

**[00:38:08.630] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If I can remember, ma'am, none, ma'am.

**[00:38:10.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. And what was the subject matter of those hearings where you were invited, if you know?

**[00:38:19.580] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
It's regarding the confidential funds.

**[00:38:35.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Now, Mr. Antonio, what is your relation with Mr. Ernesto Nemenzo? or Tonio Jr., who is the President and a member of the Board of Directors of PNX-Yudena Insurance Brokers, Inc. Your Honor.

**[00:38:55.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine?

**[00:38:56.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Relevance, Your Honor. It is very much relevant, Your Honor, because this would prove that this witness and the respondent move in the same social circle. And this witness can practically become a social pariah if he speaks unfavorably. of the respondent.

**[00:39:15.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor, short leash, counsel, go to your point. Objection is overruled.

**[00:39:22.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, Mr. Ortonio, just to repeat the question, what is your relation with Mr. Ernesto Nemenzo Ortonio, Jr., who is the President and a member of the Board of Directors of PNX Udena Insurance Brokers, Inc.? He

**[00:39:38.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
is my father.

**[00:39:44.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ano naman po ang relasyon ng PNX Udena Insurance Brokers? Corporation, sa Udena Management and Resources Corporation,

**[00:39:55.870] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
which forms part of the Udena Group founded and controlled by Mr. Dennis Avery. Your Honor, please.

**[00:40:04.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again,

**[00:40:05.890] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
relevance, Your Honor, to the confidential funds. And she's on shortage. Attorney May, is this

**[00:40:12.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
part of trying to qualify Mr. Ortonia as a hostile witness?

**[00:40:18.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. This will establish This witness has an adverse interest, Your Honor, in this case.

**[00:40:28.230] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With your indulgence, as well as with the permission of counsels for the parties, I think it has been established that Mr. Ortonio serves at the pleasure of the Vice President, has been working for her for quite some time, and is serving up to now. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Ortonio? That's correct, Your Honor. And that if the Vice President is impeached and therefore removed from office, Pati kayo matatanggal po diba dahil coterminous kayo?

**[00:40:53.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, Your Honor.

**[00:40:54.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And that as far as we know until today, you are still working with the Office of the Vice President and serving under that capacity, coterminous?

**[00:41:03.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct, Your Honor.

**[00:41:05.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To abbreviate the proceedings, the Court declares Mr. Antonio as a hostile witness based on his adverse interests vis-a-vis the respondent and the prosecution. and that therefore, Counsel-Attorney May can ask leading questions but again, pursuant to the rules, may not ask misleading questions. You may proceed, ma'am, accordingly.

**[00:41:28.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Ortonio, I am showing you a video, a video footage of the hearing of the CGGPA on November 25, 2024. May I request Your Honor our assisting counsel who is stationed at the technical booth to play the said video footage.

**[00:42:03.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Continuing authority has been granted to counsels. You may proceed accordingly, counsel.

**[00:42:08.280] Unknown speaker**  
Office

**[00:42:21.190] Unknown speaker**  
of the Vice President, Mr. Lemuel G. Ortoño, Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff, Ms. Winnie G. Diego, Chief of Public Assistance. Thank you.

**[00:42:33.630] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Ortoño. Ano ang relasyon mo sa Lemuel G. Ortoño na nabanggit sa video na aming pinakita?

**[00:42:41.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's me po, ma'am.

**[00:42:44.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ano naman, at tama ba, kinukumpirma mo ba na ang event na recorded sa video footage na yan ay ang hearing ng CGGPA noong November 25, 2024?

**[00:42:57.610] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po.

**[00:42:59.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At Mr. Ortonio, maaalala mo ba na sa hearing na yan, sinabi mo, and I quote, You provide overall supervision for the internal affairs of the Office of the Vice President.

**[00:43:11.370] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po.

**[00:43:14.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pinapatutuhanan mo rin ba na kasama ng supervision na yan ang supervision sa Administrative and Financial Services Office at Strategy Management Office ng Office of the Vice President?

**[00:43:29.510] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po.

**[00:43:31.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, Mr. Antonio, Tama bang sabihin ng Administrative and Financial Services Office, ito ang opisina sa Office of the Vice President na in charge sa pangkalahatang budget ng OVP.

**[00:43:47.440] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, Pa.

**[00:43:48.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kasama dito ang budget preparation.

**[00:43:51.180] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:43:52.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Budget disbursement, accounting, at liquidation.

**[00:43:55.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:43:57.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And since you exercised supervision over this office, Sa pangkalahatan, tama bang sabihin, generally, walang pondo ng OVP ang hinihiling, nilalabas, ginagastos, o iniliquidate na wala sa inyong kaalaman at supervision? Tama ba?

**[00:44:16.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Generally, Mr. Ortoche.

**[00:44:18.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Generally, yes.

**[00:44:20.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, ang Strategy Management Office naman, eto ang tanggapan ng OVP na nangangasiwa sa strategic planning, management, monitoring, evaluation. Organizational Development at iba pang kaugnayan ng tungkuling pamamahala ng UVP. Tama ba?

**[00:44:39.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:44:40.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So kasama dito ang pagbuo at pagsubaybay sa mga programa, proyekto at aktividad ng UVP. Tama ba?

**[00:44:49.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:44:51.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So ngayon, dahil sa iyong pag-amin, tama rin bang sabihin na bawat programa ng UVP ay dumadaan sa SMO?

**[00:45:00.940] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
For all the activities. Yes.

**[00:45:04.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At dahil kayo ang nagsusuperbisa sa SMO, kayo rin ang nagsusuperbisa sa mga programa, proyekto, at aktibidad nito. Tama ba?

**[00:45:13.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
General supervision po.

**[00:45:16.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, or sa madaling salita, bawat programa ng OVP ay dumadaan sa inyong supervision ng dalawang beses. Una, kapag ito ay pinaplano ng SMO, at pangalawa, kapag binabayaran nito ng AFSO. Tama ba?

**[00:45:33.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes po.

**[00:45:35.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At tama rin bang sabihin na ang mga direktor ng dalawang opisinang ito ay naguulat din sa iyo? Tama ba?

**[00:45:43.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po.

**[00:45:47.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Also, tama rin bang sabihin na ang Vice President mismo ang nagtalaga sa inyo ng supervision over these two offices?

**[00:45:58.760] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct as part of the organizational structure. At

**[00:46:05.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
tama rin bang sabihin na kaugnay ng inyong supervision? Sa SMO at FSO, ang anumang direktibang natatanggap ninyo ay sa huli nagbumula sa Vice President.

**[00:46:17.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct. At

**[00:46:21.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
tama rin ba na sa pagganap ng inyong mga tungkulin, sa huli kayo ay nasasaklawan ng mga direksyon at instruksyon ng Vice President?

**[00:46:32.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:46:34.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, the official acts that you perform in the discharge of those responsibilities are done pursuant to the authority vested in you by the Vice President.

**[00:46:45.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:46:47.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, pumunta naman tayo ngayon, Mr. Antonio, sa sulat kung saan nagsimula ang lahat.

**[00:46:54.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[00:46:57.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, Mr. Antonio, you assumed your position you mentioned earlier as Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff noon lamang July 1, 2022. Tama ba?

**[00:47:08.690] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's

**[00:47:09.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
correct. So, that was mid-year?

**[00:47:10.710] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[00:47:12.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And? You will confirm na pag-assume mo ng inyong posisyon around that time, walang confidential fund ang office of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[00:47:24.290] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:47:28.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Which means na yung successor ni Vice President Sara Duterte na si Vice President Lenny G. Robredo, walang confidential funds. Your Honor, please.

**[00:47:41.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Attorney General.

**[00:47:42.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
No basis, Your Honor, and conclusion of facts.

**[00:47:45.890] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly clarify,

**[00:48:08.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Lenny Robredo, Your Honor, Lenny Robredo, she did not have confidential funds, Your

**[00:48:14.590] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor.

**[00:48:16.240] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel?

**[00:48:17.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Incompetent. He's not a staff of Lenny Robredo.

**[00:48:20.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If he

**[00:48:20.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
knows. If he knows. If you know, Mr. Antonio, you may answer. If you don't, you may answer so as well.

**[00:48:27.460] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the records that we have, there's no record of confidential funds.

**[00:48:33.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ito ang dahilan kung bakit humiling ng confidential funds ang OVP sa DBM. Tama ba? Noong 2022. Dahil wala kayong dinatnaan ng confidential funds. Nang pagupo mo, kasama ng pagupo ng Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba?

**[00:48:50.830] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[00:48:52.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And this request for confidential funds,

**[00:48:57.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ipinaabot ito sa DBM sa pamamagitan ng isang sulat. Tama ba?

**[00:49:02.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Letter request. Yes,

**[00:49:04.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
letter request. Ngayon, I'm showing you Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A dated August 22, 2022.

**[00:49:15.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ito ang nabanggit mong Letter Request for Confidential Funds in 2022. Tama ba, Mr. Antonio?

**[00:49:26.510] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, correct.

**[00:49:34.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa huling pahina nitong sulat na ito, there appears a signature above the printed name, Sara Z. Duterte. You will confirm that this is the signature of the Vice President.

**[00:49:49.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I can confirm that this is the signature of the Vice President.

**[00:49:53.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you're familiar with her signature, familiar ka sa signature niya, dahil Sa panunungkulan mo over almost two decades with her or under her, nakikita mo siyang kumirma ng mga dokumento at nakikita mo rin ang kanyang pirma sa iba't ibang dokumento. Tama ba?

**[00:50:10.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[00:50:12.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And on the basis of this letter bearing her signature, tama bang sabihin ng desisyon na mag-request ng confidential funds? It was the decision of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[00:50:25.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[00:50:30.610] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And throughout these proceedings,

**[00:50:33.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
A certain name has been repeatedly mentioned, paulit-ulit na nabanggit, si Colonel La Chica. Kilala niyo siya, tama?

**[00:50:42.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I know him. He's the

**[00:50:44.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
group

**[00:50:44.790] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
commander for BPSPG.

**[00:50:46.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You mentioned group commander of the SPG, but you will confirm, Mr. Ortonio, kukumpirmahin niyo, na noong Augusto 22, 2022, hindi pa na itatalaga si Colonel La Chica bilang security officer ng OVP, tama ba?

**[00:51:03.940] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. He started September.

**[00:51:06.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, in fact, he started only on September 1, 2022. Tama ba?

**[00:51:12.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on documents. Okay.

**[00:51:16.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let us now go to the September 16, 2022 letter.

**[00:51:26.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yan ang nagpapatunay, Mr. Antonio, na si Mr. Lachica or si Colonel Lachica ay noon lamang September 16 itinalaga. bilang commander ng VPSPG. Tama ba?

**[00:51:42.390] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's... Wait, I... Hindi masyado clear po.

**[00:51:48.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, may we request our assisting counsel in the tech booth to kindly enlarge...

**[00:51:57.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Granted, so instructed...

**[00:52:00.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
...copies of the documents being flashed on the screen.

**[00:52:09.730] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sir, what's the question again, ma'am?

**[00:52:13.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Itong, sa letter na ito, pinapatutuhanan ito... na si Col. Chica ay in-appoint lamang or itinalaga lamang bilang commander ng VPSPG noon lamang September 16, 2022. Tama ba?

**[00:52:28.670] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. For, ma'am, I think the memorandum is the designation of Col. Chica as security officer.

**[00:52:38.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
As

**[00:52:39.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
security officer based on the document. Yes.

**[00:52:42.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, balik tayo dun sa letter dated August 22, 2022. Dito sa letter na to, you will confirm that the OVP requested four items. One, augmentation of financial assistance and subsidy. Two, augmentation of special duty allowance. Three, additional 192 coterminus and contractual positions. And four, confidential funds. Tama ba?

**[00:53:10.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Correct for the four items. And

**[00:53:12.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you will also confirm that at the time this document was sent to the DBM, Noong ihinihanda ang liham na ito at pinadala sa DBM, naiplano na ng OVP ang mga aktibitad nito para sa nalalabing bahagi ng 2022. Tama ba?

**[00:53:27.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:53:28.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa

**[00:53:29.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
katunayan, para sa unang tatlong kahilingan, nakapagbigay na ang OVP ng basihan ng mga hiling na halaga. Nakalagay dito ang computation kung paano nakuha ang halagang hinihiling. Tama ba?

**[00:53:44.530] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:53:46.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The first three requests, the augmentation of financial assistance and subsidy, augmentation of special duty allowance, and additional 192 coterminous and contractual positions.

**[00:54:01.530] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And dahil rin na-plot out niya na yung mga activities, programs, and plans ng OVP ng time na yan, nakapaglakip na rin kayo ng supporting documents for the first three requests. Tama ba?

**[00:54:15.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[00:54:16.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pati yung projections. mga relevant projections for these three requests.

**[00:54:20.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:54:22.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But, Mr. Ortonio, kinukumpirma mo rin na for the OVP's request for confidential funds, in this letter, walang computation na binigay. Tama ba?

**[00:54:36.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let's limit the answer to the letter. In that letter, no computation was provided. Tama ba?

**[00:54:45.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct. There

**[00:54:46.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
was also no projection provided in the same letter. Tama ba?

**[00:54:49.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[00:54:50.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And

**[00:54:51.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
also, there was no physical and financial plan attached to the letter.

**[00:54:56.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
For this letter request, none.

**[00:54:58.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact, there was no attachment supporting the OVP's request for confidential funds. Correct?

**[00:55:07.100] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There were no attachments, ma'am.

**[00:55:09.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, there were no attachments in support of your request for confidential funds. Tama?

**[00:55:19.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mr. Ortonia, what's your response?

**[00:55:23.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. No attachments.

**[00:55:29.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And tama rin bang sabihin na ultimately ang nag-decide kung magkano ang hihilingin na confidential funds from the DBM ay si Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba?

**[00:55:43.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, the determination for the amount is

**[00:55:46.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
in the

**[00:55:46.780] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
discussion of the Vice President. Yes,

**[00:55:48.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
thank you.

**[00:55:55.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Going back to the letter. Dahil wala kayong binigay na computation, projection, or supporting documents, ang tanging nilagay lamang ninyo sa request ay ang explanation kung bakit kayo humihingi ng request. Tama ba?

**[00:56:13.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:56:15.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And the explanation and the justification that you gave was, and I quote, for and in consideration of the safe implementation of the various projects and activities under the Good Governance Program and the conduct of official engagements and functional representation in international and domestic events as instructed by the Vice President. End of quote. Tama ba?

**[00:56:43.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, as instructed by the Vice President.

**[00:56:47.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
As instructed by the President.

**[00:56:49.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In

**[00:56:51.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
that same letter, you also stated, and I quote,

**[00:57:03.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You committed to formulate programs, projects, and activities relevant to national security and peace and order and is devoted to implement said PPAs with proper security and safety protocols for the benefit of the institution through the OVP satellite offices, its partner stakeholders, and the general public.

**[00:57:28.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's correct.

**[00:57:28.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So at this point, Mr. Antonio, tama ba? With

**[00:57:31.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the permission of counsel, can you ask your guy in the tech booth to kindly, whenever you refer to a portion of the letter, to zoom it in so that it's readable on the part of the senator-judges because we really cannot read any part of it. Better. Thank you. You may proceed, counsel.

**[00:57:51.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So tama ba, Mr. Antonio, nasabihin na nang pinadala ninyo ang sulat na ito Ang OVP, wala pang programs, projects, and activities na na-identify relevant to national security and peace and order. Tama ba? Dahil sabi dito sa letter, you just commit to formulate programs, projects, and activities relevant to national security and peace and order. So at that point, wala pa. Tama ba?

**[00:58:20.070] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the letter,

**[00:58:21.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ma'am,

**[00:58:21.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
there is a commitment to submit the plans and programs.

**[00:58:25.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
No, Mr. Toño, walang sinasabi dito na you commit to submit plans and programs. Ang sinasabi dito, formulate programs, projects, and activities. Tama? Correct.

**[00:58:41.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And this is despite the fact na kanina inamin mo na noong pinadala niyo yung letter na to, more or less, na-identify niyo na yung mga plans, projects, and activities of the OVP for the remainder of 2022. Tama ba? Yes.

**[00:59:00.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. For the plans and programs. Please just

**[00:59:02.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
answer

**[00:59:03.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the question. Your Honor, please. The witness is answering the question. Counsel, let

**[00:59:09.810] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the witness answer. He was in the process of answering it.

**[00:59:14.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Let's see if it is responsive or not. It can be shaken up if it's not. Yes, Mr.

**[00:59:19.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Antonio. Thank you, Your Honor. In the context of the plans and programs of the office, There has already been plans already at the beginning of the term of the Vice President in July of 2022. That's why we were able to implement already several programs and projects that we will be implementing for the rest of the year and for the rest of the term.

**[00:59:40.430] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just to clarify, With respect to those plans, programs, and activities relating to national security and peace and order, eto yung ipo-formulate niyo palang when you sent out this letter because that is what stated in the letter. Tama ba?

**[00:59:56.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[00:59:57.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
That's correct.

**[01:00:00.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm na wala na ibang letter request for confidential funds in August 2022.

**[01:00:07.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
None.

**[01:00:11.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And dahil wala pang plans, physical and financial plan nakalakip dun sa letter nyo ng August 22, 2022, sumulat sa OVP ang DBM requesting your office to submit This physical and financial plan in support of your request for confidential funds. Tama ba?

**[01:00:34.510] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:00:36.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And the Vice President instructed you, inutusan ka or inatasan ka ng Vice President na sumagot sa letter na ito ng DBM dated September 15, 2022. I'm referring to Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-B.

**[01:01:12.860] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, we are in receipt of this communication.

**[01:01:16.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ikaw ang inatasan ng Vice President na sumagot sa letter na yan. Tama ba?

**[01:01:21.050] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff, I regularly respond to communication addressed to the office.

**[01:01:32.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But the Vice President knew very well that it was you who was responding to that letter of the DBM, correct?

**[01:01:42.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, because as part of my

**[01:01:43.990] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
duties.

**[01:01:50.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And hindi niya naman... Ina-sign o inata sa iba. Nang nalaman niya na ikaw ang sasagot, inayaan ka niya at hindi niya sinabing iba na lang ang sumagot. Tama ba?

**[01:02:01.270] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, for regular communications within the office, it is the assistant chief of staff who signs the documents corresponding to other agencies. So it's already inherent to the function as the assistant chief of staff.

**[01:02:18.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Mr. Antonio. But that is ultimately subject to the decision and discretion of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[01:02:26.400] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[01:02:27.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, dahil yan ay subject sa discretion ng Vice President, anytime, the Vice President can revoke that authority. Tama ba?

**[01:02:35.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:02:38.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, following that instruction, you wrote a letter to DBM dated September 19, 2022. Tama ba? I'm referring to prosecution exhibit P-I-4-C.

**[01:02:54.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
While you're showing the witness, Attorney May, the August 22, 2022 letter, what's the exhibit marking of that document, if any?

**[01:03:06.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
For

**[01:03:09.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the record.

**[01:03:11.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
P

**[01:03:13.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
-I-4-A. P

**[01:03:17.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
-I-4-A. Thank you.

**[01:03:25.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness may answer pertaining to the September 19, 2022 letter, if you're aware of it.

**[01:03:32.460] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I signed this transmittal letter to the DBM.

**[01:03:39.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And in that letter, tinukoy ninyo ang Joint Circular 2015-01, tama ba?

**[01:03:47.440] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:03:48.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you must be familiar with that Joint Circular, tama ba?

**[01:03:51.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I'm familiar to a certain extent.

**[01:03:55.490] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Atiyak binasa at naunawaan nyo rin ito, tama ba?

**[01:03:58.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:03:59.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Because, Mr. Antonio, you're an intelligent witness. You graduated with a bachelor's degree. In Arts at Datineo de Davao University, tama ba?

**[01:04:08.210] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Communication Arts.

**[01:04:09.530] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Communication Arts. You also have a Masters in Development program from the University of the Philippines.

**[01:04:15.870] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, Development Communication.

**[01:04:17.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Development Communication. And another Masters of Arts in Psychology, is that

**[01:04:23.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
correct? From Southville International School and Colleges.

**[01:04:26.430] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[01:04:27.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And a diploma course from Datineo de Manila Center for Organization, Research and Development.

**[01:04:31.850] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[01:04:32.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact, You worked as a professor. Nagturo ka sa Ateneo de Davao University. Tama ba?

**[01:04:38.830] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, for one semester only.

**[01:04:41.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, going back to the letter, in that same letter, ipinadala nyo sa DBM ang physical and financial plan. Tama ba?

**[01:04:52.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:04:53.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And that was the first time. Yan yung unang pagkakataon na nag-submit kayo ng physical and financial plan sa DBM in support. of your request for confidential funds. Tama ba?

**[01:05:05.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:05:11.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And

**[01:05:12.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
also, of course, bago niyo isinubmit ang kopya ng physical and financial plan na yan, I'm sure, tinignan at binasan niyo at inintindi niyo yung physical and financial plan. Tama ba?

**[01:05:24.050] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I read the PFP.

**[01:05:31.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we would like to confront a witness with a physical and financial plan dated, bearing the date September 16. 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A,

**[01:05:50.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Annex A.

**[01:05:52.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So this is an attachment to Exhibit P-I-4-A as Annex A.

**[01:06:14.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, Mr. Antonio, dito sa box na may nakasulat, prepared by, may kasama ring petsa, September 16, 2022. Tama bang sabihin? na itong September 16, 2022, eto yung date kung kailan na-prepare itong physical and financial plan.

**[01:06:33.590] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am. Yes.

**[01:06:37.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ibig sabihin, noong nag-request kayo ng confidential fund in August 2022, wala pang na-prepare na physical and financial plan. Tama ba?

**[01:06:48.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:06:49.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And

**[01:06:49.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
this physical and financial plan was also approved only on September 16, 2022 as shown by the box bearing that date with the printed words approved by. Tama ba?

**[01:07:07.440] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document.

**[01:07:08.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Based on

**[01:07:09.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the document. At dyan sa box na may nakasulat na approved by, may pirma ulit. Above the printed name, Sara Duterte. Yan ay pirma ng Vice President. Siya mismo ang pumirman yan. Tama ba?

**[01:07:24.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's her signature, ma'am. At

**[01:07:26.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
dahil walang naka-countersign katabi ng kanyang signature, tama ba na yung dokumento niya yan went straight to her without yourself or anyone reviewing that for her? Tama ba?

**[01:07:42.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I can just personally say, ma'am, that the document, ma'am,

**[01:07:46.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
did not pass through my office.

**[01:07:48.580] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Before

**[01:07:49.490] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
you

**[01:07:50.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
continue, counsel,

**[01:07:53.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The court noticed that the signature of the Vice President in this document appears to be different from the signature in the August 22 document. So the Vice President has at least two signatures so far. Can you confirm that both

**[01:08:07.010] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
are signatures? Yes, I can confirm, Sir, Your Honor, that both are the signatures of the Vice President. You can

**[01:08:13.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
confirm likewise that they appear to be different, though? Yes, that's correct, Your Honor. Thank you. Your Witness Council?

**[01:08:18.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you confirm, Mr. Antonio, that this physical and financial plan was approved matapos ang 25 days from your request of confidential funds to the DBM. Tama ba?

**[01:08:33.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry, can you repeat again the question, ma'am?

**[01:08:35.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The physical and financial plan that was prepared 20 days after you requested confidential funds from the DBM.

**[01:08:44.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I believe, ma'am, parang less than 20 days, ma'am,

**[01:08:48.660] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
because the request was in August 20. 22.

**[01:08:54.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes,

**[01:08:58.860] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
that's correct. And

**[01:09:04.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
dahil nabanggit mo yung... Now,

**[01:09:14.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the physical and financial plan indicated the supposed PPAs for which the confidential fund was allotted. Tama ba?

**[01:09:25.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. Based on the document. At

**[01:09:27.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ang nakasaad dito ay good governance program. Tama ba?

**[01:09:32.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes,

**[01:09:33.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
that's correct. There was

**[01:09:34.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
no itemization of the programs and activities that will be funded by the requested confidential funds. Tama ba?

**[01:09:41.610] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Based on the document presented.

**[01:09:44.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And we will confirm that this good governance program, it's not just one particular program of the OVP. Tama ba?

**[01:09:51.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes.

**[01:09:52.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
It is

**[01:09:52.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
in fact, kukumpirmahin nyo na itong good governance program, ito ay umbrella program. or umbrella brand ng flagship activities ng OVP. Tama ba?

**[01:10:09.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:10:09.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So under that good governance program, merong mga particular na plans, programs, and activities. Tama ba? Yes. Kasama dito, yung medical assistance, burial assistance, libreng sakay, mga satellite offices. Tama ba?

**[01:10:23.740] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. So

**[01:10:25.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
balit, wala nito mga particular na activities na ito na isina-add sa physical and financial plan na inyong sinabit. Tama ba?

**[01:10:32.980] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the submitted PFP.

**[01:10:40.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also confirm na itong flagship program na good governance program, ito ay pinupondohanan ng regular budget ng OVP sa ilalim ng General Appropriations Act. Tama ba?

**[01:10:55.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:10:56.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa katunayan, sa 2022 ga-a, may line item na 621.6 million na mismong para sa good governance, engagement, and social service projects. Tama ba?

**[01:11:12.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Again, hindi ko lang po makita yung...

**[01:11:19.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May we kindly request the tech booth to enlarge the image being flashed on the screen.

**[01:11:28.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, correct. 621 million.

**[01:11:33.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina, binasa ninyo na sa liham ng August 22,

**[01:11:39.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
yung

**[01:12:08.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
additional items na ito. Tama ba?

**[01:12:10.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Natira na lamang yung good governance program.

**[01:12:13.530] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am, that was submitted.

**[01:12:16.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[01:12:17.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ang dahilan nito, you will confirm na itong dalawang programs nito, hindi ito allowed under the joint circular that you cited in your September 19, 2022 letter. Tama ba?

**[01:12:31.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As to the specifics for these two items, ma'am, I cannot answer.

**[01:12:37.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Thank you. Naupunta naman tayo sa 2023 Physical and Financial Plan.

**[01:12:46.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will confirm na bilang Assistant Secretary at Assistant Chief of Staff ng OVP, familiar din kayo dito sa 2023 Physical and Financial Plan.

**[01:12:57.180] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I was able to see it, ma'am.

**[01:12:59.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes. In fact, isa sa mga signatories dito sa Physical and Financial Plan na ito ay si Ms. Rosaline Sanchez. Tama ba?

**[01:13:12.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Again, may we request the tech booth to enlarge the document being flashed on the screen.

**[01:13:22.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Correct.

**[01:13:24.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At itong si Ms. Rosaline Sanchez, siya naman ang director ng AFSO.

**[01:13:28.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:13:29.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Nasabi mo, nagre-report din sa'yo. Tama ba?

**[01:13:31.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Going

**[01:13:32.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
back to that physical and financial plan, you will confirm that the expected outcome, physical targets, budget for the fourth quarters of 2023, na sinulat dito are just verbatim reproductions of the expected outcome physical targets and budget in the 2022 physical and financial plans. In short, yung expected outcome physical targets at budget para sa apat na quarter na nakasaad dito sa 2023 physical and financial plan, salita for salitang kinopia. ang expected outcome, physical targets, at budget sa 2022 physical and financial plans. Tama ba?

**[01:14:17.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based

**[01:14:17.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
on the document, ma'am, it

**[01:14:19.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
has the same activities

**[01:14:25.030] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
and projects.

**[01:14:26.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Dito sa 2023, physical and financial plan ang nakasaad na PPA ay socio-economic program and delivery. Tama ba?

**[01:14:35.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's

**[01:14:36.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
correct. But we

**[01:14:36.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
will also confirm that like the good governance program, yung socio-economic program delivery,

**[01:14:46.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hindi rin ito isang particular na programa. This is just an umbrella brand for the flagship programs of the OVP for 2023. Tama ba?

**[01:14:57.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. Sa

**[01:14:58.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ilalim niyan, merong mga particular din na programa, individual and particular projects. Tama ba?

**[01:15:06.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:15:07.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngunit wala kahit anuman dito sa mga particular programs na ito ang isinaad niyo. o nilagay niyo sa physical and financial plan of 2023. Tama ba?

**[01:15:17.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the documents that's presented.

**[01:15:20.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[01:15:24.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
tulad ng 2022 physical and financial plan, etong 2023 physical and financial plan ay personal ding inaprubahan ng Vice President. Tama ba?

**[01:15:38.330] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, it has the signature of the Vice President. And

**[01:15:41.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
again, dahil walang counter-signature, Sa katabi ng kanyang pangalan, tama rin bang sabihin na hindi rin ito dumaan sa inyong opisina?

**[01:15:49.430] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No, it did not pass through my office.

**[01:15:51.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But generally, Mr. Antonio, dahil kayo nga yung nangangasiwa or nag-exercise ng general supervision over the SMO as well as the AFSO, generally, walang documents ng OVP na hindi dumadaan sa office ninyo. Tama ba?

**[01:16:10.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Generally po, ma'am.

**[01:16:11.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes.

**[01:16:18.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, now, pumunta na tayo sa disbursement vouchers. Okay,

**[01:16:31.750] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, dahil ikaw ay naging kawani ng gobyerno for almost two decades, you would know na walang pondo ng publiko or pera ng bayan ang maaaring bayaran maliban kung supportado ng disbursement voucher, tama ba?

**[01:16:49.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:16:50.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang voucher, in short, ang voucher ang unang pinoproseso bago maaaring gumuhit ng anumang cheque involving public funds. Tama ba?

**[01:17:01.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[01:17:02.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, Mr. Antonio, I am showing you four disbursement vouchers which are a prosecution's exhibit P-I-10-A, P-I-10-B, P-I-10-C, P-I-10-D. You are familiar with these disbursement vouchers, correct?

**[01:17:27.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Familiar ka sa mga disbursement vouchers na ito?

**[01:17:32.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I am.

**[01:17:35.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact,

**[01:17:38.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
nakapirma ka sa disbursement, sa lahat ng disbursement vouchers na iyan, tama ba?

**[01:17:43.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the authorization of our office order.

**[01:17:53.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ang inyong

**[01:17:57.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
pangalan ay nakapatong at nakalimbag sa salitang agency, sorry, agency head or authorized representative, tama ba? Ang agency head ng tinutukoy dito ay walang iba kundi si Vice President Duterte. Tama ba?

**[01:18:15.340] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:18:17.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang ibig sabihin nito, lumalagda ka sa visa ng otoridad or on the strength of the authority that you were given by the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[01:18:27.330] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on an office order.

**[01:18:29.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes.

**[01:18:32.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[01:18:32.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ultimately, ang otoridad na yan na lumagda bilang kanyang kinatawan or authorized representative. ay nagmula mismo sa vice-presidente. Tama ba?

**[01:18:43.730] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:18:45.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, ang inyong lagda ay nasa loob ng kahong Approved for Payment.

**[01:18:51.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You

**[01:18:52.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
will confirm ang ibig sabihin nito ng paglagda ninyo or sa paglagda ninyo, inaprubahan ninyo ang pagbayad or pag-withdraw ng confidential funds para sa 2022 at 2023. Tama ba?

**[01:19:05.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:19:07.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At dahil lumagda kayo bilang authorized representative, ng Vice President, ang pag-aproba mong iyon ay ibinigay din sa visa ng otoridad ng Vice President. Tama ba?

**[01:19:21.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based po sa isang office order.

**[01:19:27.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, in short, it is as if it was the Vice President herself who was giving that approval to release those funds referred to in those disbursement vouchers. Tama ba?

**[01:19:39.070] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As authorized po.

**[01:19:40.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
As authorized, yes.

**[01:19:43.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, in short, Vice President nga. In short, Vice President approved the release of those, effectively, the Vice President approved the release of the funds referred to in those disbursement vouchers. Tama ba? Your Honor, please ask and answer the question. The reason I have to make a follow-up question is that the answer of this witness was not responsive. I was asking whether it meant effectively that the Vice President herself approve the release of the funds referred to in that disbursement voucher. But the answer of the respondent was that it was authorized by her. So I want a categorical statement, Your Honor, from this witness.

**[01:20:24.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll allow it. In the meantime, counsel, witness may answer? Yes po,

**[01:20:29.090] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
as

**[01:20:29.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
authorized po. Yes.

**[01:20:33.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung

**[01:20:37.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
gayon, or in other words, kung wala ang pag-aproba ng Vice President sa mga disbursement vouchers na to, Wala rin confidential funds sanang mailalabas. Tama ba?

**[01:20:50.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry, again, can

**[01:20:51.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you repeat

**[01:20:52.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
the question po?

**[01:20:52.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung walang approval ng Vice President sa mga disbursement vouchers na to, wala rin confidential funds na mailalabas dahil ang funds or ang pondong pinapatukoyan dito ay ang confidential funds for 2022 and 2023. Tama ba?

**[01:21:07.540] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If there is no approval po, there is no release

**[01:21:10.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
of funds.

**[01:21:11.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Okay,

**[01:21:11.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
thank you.

**[01:21:12.620] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
With the indulgence of counsel, Mr. Ortonio, Yung approved for payment ng binirmahan niyo is in item or letter D. Yes. Do you have the document in front of you? Yes, sir. Yung letter A, certified, expense, cash, advance, necessary, lawful, and incurred under my direct supervision is signed by the Vice President. Yes, that's correct, Your Honor. What does that mean? It means that it is being...

**[01:21:42.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Anong ibig sabihin ng pag-pirma ng Vice President dyan sa box na yan?

**[01:21:46.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The Vice President certifies that the funds is made under her supervision.

**[01:21:54.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And hindi ka pipirma, ano ba ito? Sequence ba ito? A, B, C, D? Pag walang pirma si A, walang pirma si B, hindi mo napipirma si C, hindi ka pipirma?

**[01:22:05.090] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. So kayo yung huling-huling

**[01:22:07.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
pumirma?

**[01:22:07.730] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. Sa dokumentong ito ng disbursement voucher? Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:22:12.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Counsel.

**[01:22:13.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, let us now go to the four checks.

**[01:22:17.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang bawat isa sa apat na disbursement vouchers na iyong inaprubahan, which you identified earlier, ito ay nagresulta sa pagbuhit ng katumbas na cheque ng land bank. Tama ba? It resulted in the drawing of four land bank checks corresponding to the funds referred to in the disbursement vouchers. Tama ba?

**[01:22:38.410] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:22:41.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I am showing you the four checks, which are Prosecutions Exhibit P-28-A, P-I-28-B, P-I-28-C, P-I-28-D.

**[01:22:58.610] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
You

**[01:23:00.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
are familiar with these checks. Tama ba?

**[01:23:19.450] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. I'm familiar with the checks being presented.

**[01:23:23.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In

**[01:23:29.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
fact, yung pirma mo, makikita dyan sa mga cheque niya. Ikaw ay pumirma sa apat na cheque. Tama ba?

**[01:23:40.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, as part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff.

**[01:23:43.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact, merong office order na nagtatalaga sa iyo bilang signatory para sa mga cheque na may halagang more than 1 million pesos. Tama ba?

**[01:23:57.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. At

**[01:23:59.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ang order na iyon ay nanggaling din kay Vice President Sara Duterte. Tama ba?

**[01:24:03.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, the office order was signed by the Vice President.

**[01:24:06.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Signed by her and thus approved by her. Tama ba?

**[01:24:10.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:24:16.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, you

**[01:24:18.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
will confirm na kasama ka sa pag-encash ng mga checking ito. Tama ba?

**[01:24:26.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I can confirm. In

**[01:24:28.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
fact, ikaw lang ang kasama ni Ms. Gina Acosta ng i-encash mismo ito sa Land Bank Shaw Boulevard Branch. Tama ba?

**[01:24:37.580] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, when she requested me to accompany her.

**[01:24:40.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, you must be familiar with the Land Bank Shaw Boulevard Branch.

**[01:24:45.110] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:24:46.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At ito, Land Bank, Shaw Boulevard Branch ay matatagpuan sa Beacon Plaza, Shaw Boulevard,

**[01:24:54.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Canton ng ID.

**[01:24:55.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Or

**[01:27:49.630] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the encashment itself?

**[01:27:51.070] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I would assume, ma'am, na Ms. Gina has informed the Vice President yung pag-encash niya. But as to if I'm accompanying her, I'm not sure, ma'am.

**[01:28:03.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. But the withdrawal and the encashment was... within the knowledge of the Vice President. Because in fact, as I answered, Your Honor. This is a different question now, Your Honor. Finish

**[01:28:17.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
your question, counsel.

**[01:28:19.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact, Mr. Ortoño, you will confirm that lahat ng nangyayari atungkol sa confidential funds, nire-report ito sa Vice Presidente. Tama ba?

**[01:28:31.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Vague, Your Honor.

**[01:28:34.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly reform and be more specific, counsel. Are you just asking about the fact that Mr. Ortonio accompanied Gina on all four occasions? Kung alam ng VP?

**[01:28:46.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
No, Your Honor. I'm referring to all matters pertaining to the confidential funds. These are reported to the Vice President and reported to and or instructed by the Vice President.

**[01:29:00.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Then that would be vague, counsel. Kindly be more specific. Kasi dininayan niya na kanina.

**[01:29:04.730] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
He

**[01:29:05.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
said he doesn't know if the Vice President knew. that he would accompany Gina. Kindly be more specific. You can ask the witness. He's intelligent enough. Ask him specific questions, counsel.

**[01:29:16.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I will park that for now, Your Honor. I will... You can move on then. Okay. Now let's go to the audit observation memoranda, Mr. Ortoño. You will confirm that you are familiar with this audit observation memoranda. I'm referring to Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-12-B P-I P-I-12-E P-I-12-E P

**[01:29:43.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
-I-12-I

**[01:30:00.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
For

**[01:30:00.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the record, witness was confronted with the three documents.

**[01:30:07.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Ortoño, you are familiar with this audit observation memoranda dahil ikaw ay binigyan ng kopya ng mga ito. Correct?

**[01:30:18.320] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. I received

**[01:30:19.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
it on

**[01:30:20.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
behalf of the Vice President.

**[01:30:21.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You've received it on behalf of the Vice President. In fact, lumagda ka dyan bilang patunay ng iyong pagtanggap sa mga audit observation memoranda na iyong tinitingnan ngayon. Tama ba? Yes,

**[01:30:33.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
that's correct.

**[01:30:35.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At kayo rin ang inatasang sumagot ng audit observation memoranda na yan ng vice-presidente. Tama ba?

**[01:30:46.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I was given instructions to prepare the draft for the reply.

**[01:30:50.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, given instructions by the vice-president or so. Tama ba?

**[01:30:53.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:30:56.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And is it also correct to say na bago kayo tumugon sa mga audit observation memoranda na yan, Sinuri at binag-aralan din ninyo ang mga liquidation report nakalakip dito.

**[01:31:08.410] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I consulted with the special dispersing officer and the security officer on the information that will be included in the reply.

**[01:31:18.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you also studied, you also checked, reviewed those liquidation reports that were attached to the, that were referred to in the audit observation memoranda. Tama ba?

**[01:31:30.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, I was only, I only got I only consulted the special disbursing officer and the security officer on the information that will be included in the reply.

**[01:31:42.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you are saying, hindi mo nakita ang liquidation report? Umasa ka lamang sa kung anong ni-report sa inyo ng special disbursing officer at ng security officer?

**[01:31:56.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I got the information from them, ma'am.

**[01:31:58.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[01:32:03.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
How about the certification and... Accomplishment Reports. Of course, you saw these documents because in fact, you would be referring later to these documents in your reply to the Audit Observation Memoranda. Tama ba?

**[01:32:21.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I was able to see the reports, ma'am, but I did not anymore go into details, ma'am. And then, that was made as an attachment to the replies. Okay.

**[01:32:30.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just a clarification, yung sa liquidation report, you also saw those liquidation reports. Tama ba?

**[01:32:38.070] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
At that time, ma'am, I was able to see the liquidation reports.

**[01:32:43.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Since you saw those liquidation reports, you

**[01:32:51.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
would also, you must have also seen that in those liquidation reports, personal din na nilagdaan ng vice-presidente. Ang mga liquidation reports na yun. Tama ba?

**[01:33:04.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, the question is vague. Counsel should refer to the particular report, Your Honor.

**[01:33:10.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly show the document, the liquidation reports you are referring to, counsel, so that the witness may be able to look at it.

**[01:33:19.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, I am referring to... The

**[01:33:23.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
four liquidation reports, I presume?

**[01:33:26.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[01:33:29.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I am referring to Prosecutions Exhibits P-I-9-A to P-I-9-D.

**[01:33:38.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
At

**[01:34:01.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
that time, ma'am, I was able to... Just see it, ma'am, physically, but I was not able to review it, ma'am. Okay,

**[01:34:08.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
but you will confirm that those liquidation reports all were signed by the Vice President, correct?

**[01:34:15.990] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document, ma'am. It has the signature of the Vice President.

**[01:34:20.430] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let's go to the certifications attached to the liquidation reports, which are Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-6-A. to P-I-6-D again.

**[01:34:37.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Can

**[01:34:38.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you please kindly refer to the certification? In

**[01:35:07.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the meantime, Your Honor, I will just go to the, park that question for now and go to the next question. So, let's go to the accomplishment reports, Mr. Ortonio. Since you mentioned, you also see these documents, you will also confirm na itong mga accomplishment reports na ito, lahat inaprubahan din ng vice-presidente. I'm referring to exhibits P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-D.

**[01:35:41.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly show the witness counsel. Assisting counsel may approach. I

**[01:36:22.930] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
was able to see, ma'am, but I did not scrutinize anymore.

**[01:36:27.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Did not scrutinize. But you will confirm that the signature of the Vice President appear in those documents since earlier you admitted na familiar ka sa signature ng Vice President.

**[01:36:42.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:36:43.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kanina nabanggit mo, if you can just backtrack a bit, kanina nabanggit mo na nakipag-coordinate ka sa security officer at sa special disbursing officer.

**[01:36:57.520] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:36:59.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Tama rin ba nasabihin na nag-coordinate ka with them upon the instructions of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[01:37:07.390] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. There was an instruction to coordinate so that we can properly reply to the AOM.

**[01:37:13.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[01:37:17.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let us go back to Liquidation Report No. 2022-12-152, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-9-A.

**[01:37:31.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And

**[01:37:39.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you will confirm that based on this document,

**[01:37:44.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang buong 125 million na confidential funds ay lubusang naubos pagsapit ng December 31, 2022. Tama ba?

**[01:38:00.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document, based on the liquidation report.

**[01:38:04.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And since in-encash niyo ang mga cheque pertaining to this fund, confidential fund, noon lamang December 20, 2022, Tama bang sabihin na yung pondo ay na-disburse sa loob lamang ng 11 days? Tama ba?

**[01:38:28.420] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on

**[01:38:31.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
this document.

**[01:38:32.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If you base it here, ma

**[01:38:34.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
'am, that's December

**[01:38:37.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
21 to 31.

**[01:38:51.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, a good ten days.

**[01:38:53.730] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[01:38:55.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The

**[01:38:55.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
document

**[01:38:56.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
speaks for itself. Your Honor, I believe counsel is referring to the original documents rule. Unfortunately for her, Your Honor, that's an improper invocation of the original documents rule. The original documents rule does not bar questions relating to the document. What it simply prohibits is the substitution of the testimony of the witness for the document without producing the original of said document. Your Honor, the original of this document was presented to this honorable court as early as the pre-trial conference of this case, Your Honor.

**[01:39:33.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We will allow it subject to the parameters that they cannot change what's contained in the document, but he may be questioned with respect to his understanding and appreciation of the document. Yes,

**[01:39:43.980] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
attorney? Your Honor,

**[01:39:44.080] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
quick reply. Because the witness was asked to interpret the document, Your Honor. and the contents of the document. I wasn't asking,

**[01:39:50.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor. It's by simple arithmetic, Your Honor. She was referring to the contents. With all due respect, Your Honor, if I can just make a brief reply to the manifestation, Your Honor. Yes, counsel,

**[01:40:02.070] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
briefly.

**[01:40:02.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, I wasn't asking, Your Honor, this witness to interpret the document. By simple arithmetic, Your Honor, this witness can easily come up with a number of days within which, and just by looking at the document, this witness can easily come up and

**[01:40:19.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Say the number of days within which the 125 million was spent and disbursed, Your Honor.

**[01:40:29.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
As long as the document is not going to be changed, I will allow it. Witness, if you know, if you know, again, you are well-educated to be able to answer the simple question. If you know...

**[01:40:41.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Again, Mr. Ortonio, you will confirm that the funds referred to... in that liquidation document was fully disbursed within a good 10 days because you said the disbursement covers the period December 21 to December 31, 2022. Tama ba?

**[01:41:03.870] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on computation, ma'am, it's actually 11

**[01:41:07.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
days. Based

**[01:41:08.450] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
on the computation and based on the document, ma'am,

**[01:41:11.270] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
it will reflect 11 days.

**[01:41:17.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ito ay sa kabila ng Fact na sa ilalim ng PFP ang pondo ay para sa buong ikaapat na quarter ng 2022. Tama ba?

**[01:41:28.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
It's for the fourth quarter of

**[01:41:30.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2022.

**[01:41:31.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
And

**[01:41:32.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
that fourth quarter of 2022 means the period October, November, December of 2022. Tama ba?

**[01:41:41.420] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
For fourth quarter, ma'am, that covers for October, November, and December.

**[01:41:46.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
October, November, and December 2022. Yes.

**[01:41:49.100] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:41:50.510] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, it means, dahil it covers that period, October, November, December 2022, yung pondo ay sprinted out supposedly para sa activities na itinala noong October, November, and December 2022. Tama ba? Your Honor,

**[01:42:09.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please.

**[01:42:10.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel?

**[01:42:11.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That is an assumption, Your Honor. That's a conclusion of fact. The witness did not testify that it should be spread throughout the... the quarter, Your Honor, and speculative also.

**[01:42:22.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May I just, Your Honor, make a counter-manifestation and a reply to the comment? Yes,

**[01:42:28.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel. What's your reply?

**[01:42:29.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm not assuming anything, Your Honor. Precisely, I am asking this witness to confirm. There's no assumption in that, Your Honor.

**[01:42:38.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm counseled, but it has no basis. I'm counseled for responder. It's correct. The witness did not say. Neither was it contained in any letter of the office of the Vice President that it is for the entire quarter.

**[01:42:54.170] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Reform counsel, you can get to what you want still. With

**[01:42:57.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
all due respect, Your Honor, this witness has just admitted earlier that the funds was for the fourth quarter of 2022. He

**[01:43:08.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
even mentioned that it is for the period of October.

**[01:43:14.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
November and December 2022.

**[01:43:17.300] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, I believe the court has already ruled on the matter, Your Honor.

**[01:43:21.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly reform, counsel. You can get to what you want just as easily, counsel.

**[01:43:28.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Earlier, Mr. Ortonio, you mentioned na yung programs na nakalagay both in the 2022 and 2023 physical and financial plans which are the good governance programs and the socio-economic programs, these are just umbrella programs. At sa ilalim nito, merong mga individual plans, programs, and activities ang OVP. Tama ba? Yes. And these plans, programs, and activities are spread out through the year. Tama ba? If

**[01:44:01.110] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
you base it on the PFP, there is

**[01:44:04.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
an allocation. Sorry, I'm not referring to the PFP. Just generally, itong socio-economic programs, program delivery and good governance program. Ito ay naka-spread out through the entire year? Yes, for

**[01:44:18.230] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
implementation

**[01:44:18.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
throughout the

**[01:44:20.430] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
year.

**[01:44:20.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, so merong programa na naka-schedule for October, meron din for November, meron din for December. Tama ba? Yes,

**[01:44:28.710] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
there are schedules for the rollout of the activities. Okay,

**[01:44:32.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
tama. At dahil yung PFP or physical financial plans, ang sinasabi lamang ay social economic development program at good governance program. Effectively, ang ibig sabihin nito, yung pondong nakatalaga doon sa relevant quarter na yon ay nakatalaga para sa relevant programs, plans, and activities for each quarter. Your Honor,

**[01:44:59.950] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please. Can the counsel show what particular PFP she's referring to, Your Honor? Your Honor, may we request

**[01:45:05.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
our assisting counsel to furnish

**[01:45:10.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
witness

**[01:45:11.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
with both PFPs, Your Honor, for the 2022 and 2023 PFP. So

**[01:45:22.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
just for clarity, let's just go to the PFP for 2022.

**[01:45:30.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May

**[01:45:34.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
nakalagay dyan sa PAPs. Good governance program. Tama ba?

**[01:45:40.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:45:41.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang sinasabi mo kanina, yung good governance program na yan, hindi yan isang particular na programa lamang. Merong mga flagship programs under that good governance program. Tama ba?

**[01:45:53.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[01:45:54.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And for every month, for the remaining quarter of 2022, meaning October, November, and December, meron dyang mga nakatalang activities. plans and programs falling under the good governance programs. Tama ba?

**[01:46:08.290] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, under the good governance programs.

**[01:46:09.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, under the good governance programs. At nakalagay din dyan na yung halagang 125 million ay para sa quarter 4 of 2022, meaning that is the period October, November, and December 2022. Tama ba?

**[01:46:27.050] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
For the subject na confidential funds.

**[01:46:30.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, for the confidential funds. Yes. Tama rin bang sabihin na for, well, presumably, yung October, November, and December, merong mga activities for which the confidential funds would answer to?

**[01:46:47.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Or would

**[01:46:48.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
answer for? Tama ba? Your

**[01:46:49.660] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please.

**[01:46:50.400] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine?

**[01:46:52.720] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, she's asking for an opinion. We note that the witness is not even the one who prepared this PFP, Your Honor. and counsel also stated, presumably, Your Honor. So that's asking for an opinion. With

**[01:47:05.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the

**[01:47:05.480] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
indulgence of counsels, so that we can get somewhere before we break for lunch, Mr. Ortoño, yung PAP po ninyo at yung request nyo sa confidential funds sa huling quarter ng 2022, ang plano nyo sana para sa buong quarter, buong huling quarter ng 2022?

**[01:47:26.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Your Honor, if you will base, number one po, because I'm not, I did not participate in the preparation of the PFP. So, in terms of the details of the implementation for the confidential funds, I may not be able to properly...

**[01:47:41.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Hindi po po natin pinag-uusapan ng implementation. Pinag-uusapan po natin. Nung nag-submit kayo ng plano para mangingin ang confidential fund, at ikaw yung pumirman nun, para sa last quarter. Kaya lang, as we all know, late na na-release yung pera, hindi ba?

**[01:47:55.360] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. Based on the PFP, Your Honor, it's... As indicated here, it's for October to December.

**[01:48:01.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, para sa last quarter nga ng 2022. Kailan na-release yung pera? Kailan mo binitraw? December 21?

**[01:48:10.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The SARO was released December 30 and then the withdrawal was made December 20. December 20. Tapos in-implement niyo hanggang December 31. Based on the documents, Your Honor, the activities were implemented until December 21. 31. 31, sorry. Until

**[01:48:30.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
December 31. Now, I'll go a step further, counsel. Ba't ba kailangan madaliin yan? Hindi ba ang budget good for two years? As you very well know, given your position in the office of the Vice President, the budget, the GAA, is good for two years anyway. So why was there a need to implement it within the year?

**[01:48:53.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Because, Your Honor, the request was made for the specific year, which is 2022.

**[01:48:59.320] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
at dahil nga yung plano nyo is for the last quarter of 2022. Yes, Your Honor. Your Witness Council.

**[01:49:08.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just follow through, Your Honor, to the question made by the presiding officer. So just to clarify, dahil nakasaan dyan na yung confidential fund Confidential funds of 125 million for 2022 is for the last quarter, meaning for October, November, and December. Nakalaan yan para sa activities under the good governance programs ng OVP for October, November, and December. Tama ba?

**[01:49:35.550] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on that.

**[01:49:36.750] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Based on the document.

**[01:49:43.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. At bilang

**[01:49:47.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
supervising authority over the financial services ng OVP, alam din ninyo

**[01:50:17.360] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. That's

**[01:50:18.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
correct.

**[01:50:21.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung hindi na-report o nag-asos yung 125 million pagsapit ng December 31, 2022, bahagi o buo nito ay babalik sana sa Treasury. Tama ba?

**[01:50:33.270] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. Yes.

**[01:50:42.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hearing sa CGGPA noong November 25,

**[01:50:48.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2024, inamin mo na ikaw ay pinagkakatiwalaan ng Vice Presidente. sa mga sensitive and confidential information. Tama ba? Naalala mo?

**[01:51:01.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I cannot specifically remember if I said those words po in verbatim.

**[01:51:06.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. We are furnishing you a copy of the transcript of stenographic notes of the CGGPA hearing dated November 25, 2024, specifically page 208, which

**[01:51:26.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
is also flashed on the screen. Sinabi mo, and I quote, sa mga sensitibong bagay, end of quote.

**[01:51:44.450] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What's your question, counsel?

**[01:51:47.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Do you confirm that, Mr. Ortoño?

**[01:51:53.630] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I think the context for this, ma'am, is because the previous question

**[01:51:58.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
was... Excuse me, Mr. Ortoño, I need to cut you because... That's

**[01:52:04.950] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
why

**[01:52:04.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I was asking, what was your question?

**[01:52:06.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Because I also did not get the question. Kindly repeat your question,

**[01:52:09.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
counsel. I was asking the witness whether or not He admitted during that hearing that the Vice President would entrust to him or would share with him mga sensitibong bagay.

**[01:52:24.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am, but that is in the context of the previous question that my position is of trust and confidence. Yes,

**[01:52:32.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
correct.

**[01:52:33.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Although I said po na on sensitive matters, Of course, it is never absolute that all sensitive matters can be disclosed.

**[01:52:42.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, we understand that, Mr. Ortoño. Okay, noong December, between December 20 and December 31, meron ba kayong narinig na threat of cataclysmic proportion? Ibig sabihin, meron ba kayong narinig na banta na masyadong mapaminsala na kailangan supoin sa loob lamang ng 11 days? Noong December 20? to December 31, 2022.

**[01:53:10.570] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please. Counsel? Question is vague, Your Honor, and no basis also. How

**[01:53:17.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
can that be vague, Your

**[01:53:18.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor? I presume it's threat against the Vice President. May alam po ba kayo na anong salita ulit yung ginamit mga attorney? May mapaminsala?

**[01:53:30.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Threat of cataclysmic proportion or banta na masyadong mapaminsala.

**[01:53:35.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Bantang mapaminsala. Kakaibang banta. laban kay sa ikalawang Pangulo noong mga panahon yon na malapit sa petsang December 21 to 31.

**[01:53:47.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If

**[01:53:48.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you know, if you know of any.

**[01:53:49.540] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Your Honor, I personally don't know of any information.

**[01:53:54.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
By the way, just again to backtrack a bit, Mr. Ortoño, when you requested confidential funds in 2022, Kung alam ninyo, yung OVP po ba meron ng mga natukoy na banta laban sa Vice President noong panahong iyon?

**[01:54:13.720] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, I cannot personally answer. Maybe that's a question that can be answered by the security group.

**[01:54:19.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But as far as you're concerned, are you aware of any identified threats? against the vice president or the office during that time?

**[01:54:28.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If he knows, counsel, attorney Christine, if he knows, if he does not, you may answer accordingly. I personally do not know of any.

**[01:54:36.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And before you requested confidential funds from the DBM, would you know if the office of the vice president coordinated with any law enforcement agency for possible threats against the vice president or the office? Would you know?

**[01:54:57.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
In relation to possible threats to the Vice President, I would not have any information.

**[01:55:04.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I would

**[01:55:05.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
not have any information.

**[01:55:13.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ibig sabihin mo ba, itong mga threats na to, hindi to kasama sa mga sinu-supervise mo na internal affairs or mga programa ng internal affairs ng Office of the Vice President. Dahil sinabi mo, ikaw nagsusupervise ng dalawang opisina, who in turn, or that in turn, oversees or monitors matters

**[01:55:41.030] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
relating to the OVP. Your Honor, please.

**[01:55:44.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine?

**[01:55:45.220] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ask and answer, then complex, Your Honor, and also argumentative.

**[01:55:49.580] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's a

**[01:55:50.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
bit compound, counsel. Reform a bit, counsel. The question is, long as well, the witness might not be able to respond adequately. Break it up a bit, counsel.

**[01:55:58.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, Mr. Ortoño, you mentioned earlier that you are not aware of any coordination efforts with law enforcement agency at that time that you requested funds from the DBM. Tama ba?

**[01:56:09.850] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, ma'am. Your

**[01:56:10.370] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please.

**[01:56:12.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The question is misleading.

**[01:56:14.110] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The witness said no information as to the supposed threats against the Vice President.

**[01:56:19.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witnesses already answered, counsel.

**[01:56:23.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney May.

**[01:56:24.640] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. So nasabi mo wala kang alam ng coordination efforts. Ang sinasabi mo pa, Itong mga coordination efforts na ito, hindi ito sakop ng overseeing and supervising functions mo as Assistant Secretary and Assistant Chief of Staff of the OVP.

**[01:56:43.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
In relation to security matters, ma'am, no, that is not part of my duties as the Assistant Chief of Staff.

**[01:56:50.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, thank you. Now, pumunta na tayo sa accomplishment reports na sinabi mo kanina ay nakita mo in connection with your Preparation of the response as to the audit observation memorandum. Tama ba?

**[01:57:09.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. You

**[01:57:09.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
mentioned that.

**[01:57:18.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I am referring to prosecutions

**[01:57:35.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
exhibits P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-D.

**[01:57:44.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
These are the accomplishment reports that you admitted seeing.

**[01:57:48.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I was able to see them.

**[01:57:50.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let's first go to the first three accomplishment reports.

**[01:57:56.880] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
which are P-I-7-A-1 to P-I-7-C. You

**[01:58:07.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
confirm that? Do you see that before you?

**[01:58:10.890] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:58:11.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Itong tatlong reports na ito, ang bawat report ay naglilista ng pare-parehong anim na kategorya sa pare-parehong pagkakasunod-sunod. Tama ba?

**[01:58:22.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:58:23.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
We

**[01:58:24.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
have purchase of information, payment of reward, rental and maintenance of safe houses, purchase of supplies, medical and food aid, and incentives or traveling. Tama ba? That order? Yes. All three accomplishment reports?

**[01:58:42.020] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[01:58:43.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa bawat quarter, ang mga halagang iyon ay exact nung nagkakabuo ng 125 million. Tama ba?

**[01:58:51.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document presented, yes.

**[01:58:55.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm na sa bawat isa sa mga quarter na iyon, Walang halagang naisa uli. Tama ba?

**[01:59:03.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the liquidation report, ma'am.

**[01:59:06.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes.

**[01:59:07.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Now,

**[01:59:09.530] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa 2022 report, ang safe house rental and maintenance, ang halaga ay 16 million pesos. Tama ba?

**[01:59:20.220] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the report.

**[01:59:23.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ganon din sa first quarter ng 2023. 16 million din ang halaga ng house. rental and maintenance, safe house rental and maintenance. Tama ba?

**[01:59:34.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document, ma'am.

**[01:59:36.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ganun din sa second quarter ng 2023. 16 million para sa safe house rental and maintenance. Exactong 16 million.

**[01:59:44.870] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[01:59:46.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm, as you've already confirmed earlier, na ang 2022 report, ang saklaw na period nito ay 11 days. Tama ba?

**[02:00:00.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
from December 21 to 31.

**[02:00:03.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Samantalang ang sakop naman na period ng first quarter ng February 6, ng first quarter report ay February 6 to March 29, 2023. So that's 52 days. Tama ba?

**[02:00:18.290] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am.

**[02:00:20.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And the second quarter naman, ang saklaw na period nito ay April 25 to June 30 or 67 days. Tama ba?

**[02:00:29.390] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document.

**[02:00:31.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Gayunpaman, magkakapareho ang halaga ng safe house rental at maintenance sa tatlong reports na iyon. Tama ba? Yes,

**[02:00:40.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
based on the report.

**[02:00:46.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So in short, 16 million pesos para sa safe house para sa labing isang araw, para sa 52

**[02:01:00.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
days, at para sa 67 days. Pare-parehong 16 million ang halaga.

**[02:01:06.090] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am. Yes.

**[02:01:11.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The same is true, Mr. Ortoño, for incentives and traveling. Yung line item na yan na makikita sa accomplishment report. Tama ba?

**[02:01:21.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
It's the same 10 million pesos for all those three quarters.

**[02:01:27.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document.

**[02:01:30.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm that based on those documents, for the 2022 report, it covers or it claimed to have covered 132 areas in 11 days. Tama ba?

**[02:01:45.360] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry again, ma'am, for 20...

**[02:01:47.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2022, the first report. Yes, ma'am. It's 132 areas for 11 days. So first quarter naman of 2023, it claims 127 areas in 52 days.

**[02:02:02.860] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the report, ma'am. And

**[02:02:05.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
for the second quarter, it's 111 areas in 67 days. Tama ba?

**[02:02:11.250] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the report.

**[02:02:12.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Based on the report. And for the third quarter, it's

**[02:02:19.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
122 areas in 79 days, correct?

**[02:02:24.250] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct, ma'am.

**[02:02:26.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, ibig sabihin ito, yung shortest period pa, ang pinakamaikling panahon, ang nagbunga ng pinakamaraming lugar, which is 132 days. Tama ba? Based on the document.

**[02:02:42.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am. Yes.

**[02:02:46.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero, yung halaga, ay hindi nagbago. Remained 10 million pesos. Tama ba?

**[02:02:54.640] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[02:02:56.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes,

**[02:02:57.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[02:02:58.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Argumentative, Your Honor. Ang mahalaga, hindi nagbago na 10 million

**[02:03:01.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
pesos. Your Honor, the counsel may have misheard what I said. I was referring to halaga, Your Honor. And in any event, Your Honor, it's not argumentative. I am eliciting a matter of fact from this witness.

**[02:03:16.220] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness may answer, counsel. We're a few minutes before lunch, Atty. Christine.

**[02:03:21.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Based on the document presented,

**[02:03:23.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
ma'am. The

**[02:03:23.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
amount did not change.

**[02:03:25.130] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's how it

**[02:03:25.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
remained.

**[02:03:26.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[02:03:27.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
10 million pesos regardless of the number of areas covered.

**[02:03:31.550] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document.

**[02:03:38.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also confirm from those documents that for the first three reports, meaning the 2022 report, and the reports for the first two quarters of 2023 may

**[02:03:56.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
line item or provision for medical and food aid. Correct?

**[02:04:03.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes. Nagkakahalaga ng 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million respectively. Tama ba?

**[02:04:09.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[02:04:12.750] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Itong mga accomplishment reports, you will agree and you will admit na ito ay isinumite sa COA bago pa nakatanggap ang OVP ng audit observation memorandum. Tama ba?

**[02:04:33.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If based on the submission dates, ma'am, yes.

**[02:04:38.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes. And you will also confirm that the OVP received the first memorandum which is audit observation memorandum number 2023-213 only

**[02:04:58.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
on October 4. 2023. Tama ba?

**[02:05:01.190] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[02:05:03.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And five days later, kayo naman ang OVP nagsubmit ng last report or the third quarter of 2023 which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-7-D which is already before you, Mr. Ortoño. Tama ba?

**[02:05:22.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
The third quarter accomplishment report.

**[02:05:26.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, you submitted that. on October 9, 2020. Based

**[02:05:30.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
on the submitted report.

**[02:05:32.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, so that was five days after you received the first audit observation memoranda from the COA. Tama.

**[02:05:43.830] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And if you will check and if you will confirm, dyan sa last accomplishment report na yan, wala na yung line item for medical and food aid. Tama ba?

**[02:05:59.400] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[02:06:03.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero,

**[02:06:06.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang kabuuhan pa rin ng fund ay 125 million pesos. Ang kabuuhan ng confidential fund na nagastos ay ganun pa rin, 125 million pesos.

**[02:06:20.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document, ma'am.

**[02:06:23.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yung dating 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million na amount, hinati-hati ito sa iba't ibang line item. Tama ba? Merong nilagay. sa provision ng rewards. Tama ba? Your

**[02:06:40.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor,

**[02:06:40.510] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please.

**[02:06:42.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel?

**[02:06:43.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Witness is incompetent to testify on that because he did not prepare the accomplishment report.

**[02:06:49.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If he knows, counsel, based on the documents, if he knows, kung alam niyo po, Mr. Ortonio, maaari niyo pong sagutin. Thank you, Your

**[02:06:56.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor.

**[02:06:56.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sabihin

**[02:06:57.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
niyo ang

**[02:06:57.370] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
hindi niyo alam.

**[02:06:58.070] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I would not know, ma'am, if hinati-hati, ma'am, because I did not prepare the document.

**[02:07:06.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But you would... Confirm na kahit nawala yung line item na yun na supposedly 40 million, 42 million, and 40 million, the amount stayed 125 million. Your Honor,

**[02:07:20.970] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please.

**[02:07:23.680] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Same ruling, same objection.

**[02:07:26.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ask and answered already.

**[02:07:27.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Same ruling, same objection. Please continue counsel, move on. And by the way, Attorney May, choose the best time when you want to pause para hindi ka bitin sa direct examination mo. Not to exceed 12.15 so that we can all go on a lunch break. But you choose the best time when you want to pause. Until 12.15, counsel. Or before that time.

**[02:07:49.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:07:50.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please proceed, counsel.

**[02:07:51.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So there was a question left hanging, Your Honor. I was asking the witness. Since nawala yung light item na medical and food aid, subalit naging pareho pa rin. Ang amount, ang total amount, ang total halaga, which is 125 million, yung corresponding amount of 40, 42 million, 40 million for the medical food aid, that must have been assigned to other line items, correct?

**[02:08:17.400] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I cannot confirm on that, ma'am. But you do confirm the total is still the same? I can confirm, sir, that based on the document, the total amount is still the same. And

**[02:08:29.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
that they're all the same, Mr. Ortoño? Yes. For the last quarter of 2022 and the first three quarters of 2023, they're all 125.

**[02:08:37.870] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct,

**[02:08:39.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Honor. Move on, counsel.

**[02:08:44.690] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm, if you would compare those four accomplishment reports, for the first time in the accomplishment report for the third quarter of 2023, lumabas ang inilat,

**[02:09:03.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sorry, sa unang pagkakataon, ang bawat item, ay inilarawan bilang kaugnayan sa Areas of Engagement of the Office of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[02:09:15.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yung

**[02:09:15.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
phrase na Areas of Engagement of the Office of the Vice President, makikita mo lamang yan for the first time in the third accomplishment report. Tama ba?

**[02:09:29.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sorry, fourth accomplishment report referring to the third quarter of 2023.

**[02:09:35.520] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Areas of Engagement of

**[02:09:38.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the Office of the Vice President.

**[02:09:41.580] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry, ma'am. Okay, for item D.

**[02:09:48.030] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document, ma'am.

**[02:09:56.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, we can rest for now, Your Honor, and have our lunch. It's a

**[02:09:59.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
good

**[02:09:59.870] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
point to pause, counsel, and continue with your direct examination when we reconvene after lunch.

**[02:10:06.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[02:10:08.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
We shall go on a lunch recess and shall reconvene at 12.45 for the suggestion of the Senate President. We are on recess until 12.45.

**[02:53:07.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly situate Mr. Ortonio in the witness

**[02:53:10.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
stand.

**[02:53:30.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ginong Ortonio, patuloy po kayong tetestigo sa ilalim ng parehong sinumpaan ninyo kaninang umaga.

**[02:53:38.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Nauunawa niyo po yan? Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor.

**[02:53:41.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Thank you very much. Nakakain na po kayo? Hindi pa po. Bakit di ka kumain?

**[02:53:47.340] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Later na lang po.

**[02:53:48.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
May ganun? Ay, eh?

**[02:53:55.410] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Anyway, Attorney May, your witness. You may continue with your direct examination when you're ready. Likewise, the...

**[02:54:03.740] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes,

**[02:54:05.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine, you want to say something? Your Honor,

**[02:54:07.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please, yes. Just a quick manifestation, Your

**[02:54:09.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor. Yes, Attorney May.

**[02:54:10.990] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We know that the witness has been interpreting documents, Your Honor, which he did not participate in the drafting and preparation of. So, We don't dispute the contents of those documents, Your Honor. In fact, we can stipulate on the amounts.

**[02:54:33.430] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We already stipulated actually on the amounts and the signature, Your Honor. So, may we inquire if that's the line of questioning that the council would follow? Because if the questioning... Yeah, if the questioning would refer to the amounts, to the number of days, etc., just to abbreviate the proceedings, we can stipulate on those, Your Honor.

**[02:54:58.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I think in relation to her offer, counsel, which she will not, I'm sure, be willing to stipulate, counsel for the prosecution wants to establish that, as she stated in her offer, that the explanations for the expenses in relation to confidential funds, she used the word sham, that they were prepared before, they even requested for it, and that it's almost all the same, involving the same amounts, and consumed the entire amount, which I'm sure you're not willing to stipulate at this point, counsel.

**[02:55:39.250] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
We're not going to stipulate on that, Your Honor. Even if

**[02:55:42.310] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I were in your position, I won't. Yes,

**[02:55:44.490] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor. But just to put it on record, Your Honor, the witness already stated that he had no participation in the execution of certain documents like the PFP and the accomplishment reports. And yet, he has been questioned about those documents including his interpretation thereof. So, Your

**[02:56:04.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Honor. During the lull, if I may counsel, during the lull, some senator-judges were also discussing and talking. I think most, if not all, attorney may get the point that you have been trying to drive at in relation to the liquidation report, the PFP, with the exception of the disbursement voucher that Mr. Ortonio signed.

**[02:56:35.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
that while he is aware of them, he had no part in its preparation. And indeed, you have been using this witness to read some of the contents of the documents. Albeit, the document should speak for itself, but we do get that point. Kindly proceed to the other purposes of your offer. I believe there are about two or three more that you have not yet established through this witness. Because insofar as that is concerned, I think the senator-judges get the point that you're driving at. You want to prove through this witness and the documents supposedly that the items in the liquidation report are almost the same with some variations, that the amounts are almost the same, that the totals are the same with some variations as well, and that the plan was prepared on dates before they made the request. Even the 11-day period, I think, the court has already taken notice of that as well, even from the previous witnesses' testimony.

**[02:57:39.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, kindly proceed, counsel, and you

**[02:57:42.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
don't have to skip that part, but kindly abbreviate that part and move on to your other offers that you wish to establish through this witness. Your witness, Ms. Attorney May.

**[02:57:53.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Your Honor.

**[02:57:57.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Good afternoon again, Mr. Ortonio.

**[02:58:00.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Earlier,

**[02:58:09.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
you admitted that in 2022, your request for confidential funds was for 250 million, correct?

**[02:58:18.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, for 250 million.

**[02:58:20.250] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But eventually, the amount given was only 125 million, correct?

**[02:58:25.990] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[02:58:26.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And yet, in the 2022 accomplishment report, what is reported is that there was still 100% implementation of activities. Tama ho ba?

**[02:58:39.930] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If we will be...

**[02:58:43.140] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[02:58:47.170] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[02:58:48.690] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm sorry, counsel.

**[02:58:50.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can the witness be shown the document, Your Honor?

**[02:58:52.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes. Assisting counsels have been given continuing authority to so approach and show the witness the documents in order to confront the witness with the document.

**[02:59:06.800] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry again, ma'am, the question, ma'am.

**[02:59:09.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You reported in that accomplishment report for 2022, inulat niyo na 100% pa rin ang implementation ng projects. Tama ba?

**[02:59:20.430] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the utilization that was submitted and prepared, ma'am, it indicated 100% implementation.

**[02:59:28.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ibig sabihin, Mr. Ortoño, tama ba na there was full implementation of the project gamit ang kalahati ng budget na inyong hiningi? Tama ba?

**[02:59:39.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry, again, ma'am. There

**[02:59:41.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
was still full implementation of the activities for half the budget that you requested.

**[02:59:49.220] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, if... Based on the document, ma'am, 100% for the 125. Okay.

**[02:59:57.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sige. Punta na tayo ngayon. sa replies to the AOM. Ngayon, sumagot ka. Ikaw mismo sumagot sa AOM number 2023-211 dated September 14, 2023. Tama ba? For

**[03:00:21.400] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
September 14, 2023 and October 3,

**[03:00:26.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2023. Tama. Okay. Pero, you will confirm, na yung mga AOMs na iyon, addressed kay respondent vice president, attention kay Ms. Acosta at Ms. Villa del Rey. Tama ba?

**[03:00:43.590] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[03:00:44.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, hindi naka-address sa iyo ang mga AOMs na sinagot mo. Tama ba?

**[03:00:50.670] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[03:00:52.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Noong hearing, noong November 25, 2024, sinabi mo na wala kang personal na kaalaman sa aktwal na paggastos ng confidential funds ng OVP. Tama ba?

**[03:01:08.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

**[03:01:09.820] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At sa pagkakaalam mo, alam din to ng Vice President. Tama ba?

**[03:01:15.850] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Alam ng Vice President, ma'am, that I do not know of anything.

**[03:01:19.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Or that you do not have any personal participation, as you claim, doon sa paggastos ng confidential funds.

**[03:01:28.850] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[03:01:30.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon pa man, ikaw ang tinalaga ng vice president na tumugon sa mga audit observation memoranda na bananggit mo. Tama ba?

**[03:01:40.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. For audit observations, ma'am, it's usually either the assistant chief of staff or the chief of staff who responds on behalf of the agency.

**[03:01:50.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Regardless kung may kaalaman, ang chief of staff at assistant chief of staff, yan ang sinasabi mo?

**[03:01:56.490] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As representative of the organization, ma'am.

**[03:02:04.560] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, ipapakita sa iyo Ang mga sulat ng OVP sa COA na may petsang October 19, 2023, November 30, 2023, April 19, 2024, August 27, 2024.

**[03:02:23.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ito ang mga naging tugon mo sa lahat ng Audit Observation Memoranda ng Commission on Audit. Tama ba?

**[03:02:39.440] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Just note, ma'am, that for the three other documents, ma'am. I'm just one of the signatories,

**[03:02:46.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ma'am. Yes. But a signatory nonetheless. Yes.

**[03:02:52.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, sa mga AOMs na in-issue ng COA sa liquidation ng OVP para sa lahat ng quarters na iyong sinagot, pinunan ito ang mga PFP na isinumite ng OVP dahil hindi nakasaad ang tiyak na confidential activity na paggagamitan ng confidential funds. Tama ba?

**[03:03:15.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the AOM, ma'am.

**[03:03:16.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At sa inyo namang sulat to the COA, yung mga sulat na you were confronted with, ipinagtanggol niyo itong PFP na ito. Tama ba? Sinabi niyo na, and I quote, there's no specific guideline on the details of confidential activities to be indicated.

**[03:03:42.490] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Based on the

**[03:03:47.690] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
based on the annexes of the JC. Okay.

**[03:03:50.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, you mentioned the joint circular. Now, Mr. Ortonio, may I invite you to Article 4.2 of the joint circular which states, and I quote, all allocations of confidential funds and or intelligence funds shall be supported with a physical and financial plan indicating the proposed amount allocated for each program, activity, and project where disbursements pertaining to confidential expenses and intelligence expenses shall be based. End of quote.

**[03:04:30.710] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry, ma'am. What provision again, ma'am?

**[03:04:33.650] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
4.2.

**[03:04:34.410] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
4.2.

**[03:04:42.510] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Okay, ma'am. Yes.

**[03:04:47.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At inaamin mo na gulad ng pag-aamin mo kanina, yung mga PFP na ito na inyong sinumite, tanging ang isinasaad lamang. ay yung mga umbrella programs na good governance program and socio-economic delivery programs. Tama ba?

**[03:05:09.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the documents that was prepared, ma'am, it

**[03:05:12.490] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
only

**[03:05:12.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
indicated the umbrella programs. Ngunit

**[03:05:16.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
inamin nyo na rin na ang dalawang ito ay mga pawang umbrella programs lamang at may kanya-kanyang individual programs sa ilalim nito. Tama ba?

**[03:05:28.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, for the programs, ma'am, that was indicated, I can say, ma'am, that there are specific programs based on the regular funding. But as to the activity... That

**[03:05:38.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
is not the question, Mr. Ortoño. Ang tinatanong ko lamang sa inyo, yung dalawang programs na to, yung umbrella programs na to, dahil sila ay umbrella programs lamang, meron tong mga particular programs under these umbrella programs. Correct?

**[03:05:55.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, if we are talking about the regular budget, ma'am. Yes, there are specific activities under those programs.

**[03:06:03.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And even, you would confirm, ikaw din ang nag-submit sa COA ng mga protective intelligence

**[03:06:15.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
operations reports, tama ba?

**[03:06:18.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Again, ma'am?

**[03:06:19.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Protective intelligence operations reports, or yung mga P.I.O.R.s, di ba?

**[03:06:24.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As the liason, I am the designated liaison officer for the confidential funds, ma'am. And yes, I submitted documents, ma'am, in a sealed envelope, ma'am.

**[03:06:35.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
When you say documents, those documents include the P.I.O.R.s, tama ba? Kasama doon sa sinubmit mo yung mga P.I.O.R.s, tama ba?

**[03:06:44.830] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am, as an attachment to the response to the AOM.

**[03:06:50.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact,

**[03:06:55.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And I would assume, binasa mo rin ito, mga P.I.O.R.s na ito, bago mo ito sinumite?

**[03:07:00.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Unfortunately, ma'am, I was not able to read the reports, ma'am, because these are sealed already, ma'am. I submitted the documents only, ma'am, to the COA.

**[03:07:12.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Tinanong mo rin ba, sinabi mo kanina, na kinikipag-coordinate ka kay La Chica, or sorry, sa security officer? at sa special dispersing officer. Tama ba? Yes. Tinanong mo ba sa kanila kung ano ang nilalaman ng PIORs na ito?

**[03:07:31.440] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No, I did not anymore ask, ma'am.

**[03:07:33.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:07:46.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, dun sa AOMs din na iyong sinagot, pinuna din ng Commission on Audit yung line item na medical and food aid. Tama ba?

**[03:07:58.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:08:01.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At...

**[03:08:05.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi ng COA sa kanilang audit observation memoranda ng line item na ito ay hindi allowable sa gustusin ng confidential funds sa ilalim ng Joint Circular. Tama ba?

**[03:08:18.490] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the AOM, ma'am,

**[03:08:19.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
and we were able to send our reply to this issue or concern.

**[03:08:24.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you justified the inclusion of that line item. Pinagtanggol niyo dun sa sagot niyo sa AOMs, pinagtanggol niyo yung pagsama ng line item na ito. sa inyong accomplishment reports. Tama ba?

**[03:08:38.810] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, we were able to explain it through our reply.

**[03:08:42.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi ninyo na pinapayagin ito sa ilalim ng 4.8.4 na sumasaklaw sa purchase or rental of supplies, materials, and equipment for confidential operations. Tama ba?

**[03:08:54.770] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:09:04.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm na itong pera, supposedly for the purchase of rentals of supplies, materials, and equipment for confidential operations. Hindi kayo gumastos. Ibig sabihin, yung supposed supplies, materials and equipment, hindi ang OVP ang bumili nito. Tama ba?

**[03:09:29.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the information that was provided to me by the security officer, payments were made directly to the informants or the agents. At

**[03:09:41.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
tama rin kung kumpirmahin mo rin ba? na wala kang nakita kahit anumang official receipt sa pagbili ng kahit alin dito sa mga tinutukoy na supplies na to. Unahin natin sa medicine. Wala kang nakita kahit anong official receipt mula sa kahit alinmang drugstore, pharmacy, o supplier. Tama ba? I

**[03:10:06.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
was not able to see, ma'am, any ORs.

**[03:10:09.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:10:12.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also agree na Sa pangkalahatan, ang pagbili ng gamot at pagkain ay ginagawa sa regular na proseso, pang-araw-araw. Ibig sabihin, bibili mula sa sources like drugstores, pharmacy, at ang yung bumibili naman ay isyuhan ng karampatang official use. Tama ba?

**[03:10:44.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Purchase. The usual

**[03:10:46.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
purchase. Yes, if

**[03:10:47.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
it's for

**[03:10:48.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
the usual purchase, yes, bibili ka and then you are given a receipt.

**[03:10:55.090] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At hindi mo na tinanong si Ms. Acosta at ang security officer na iyong nabanggit kung nasaan ang supposed official receipts bilang patunay na ito nga ay nabili. Mga supplies na ito.

**[03:11:11.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, the explanation that was provided to me, ma'am, was that binigay po ang pera directly doon sa mga informants and agents and the informants and agents na po yung bumili ng mga medical and food supplies. So, it's the acknowledgement receipt which is the proof of the release of the funds to the informants or the agents.

**[03:11:40.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, ang sinasabi mo, kahit si Ginang Acosta at ang special disbursing officer, walang nahawakan kahit isa mang official receipt para sa supposed purchases na ito.

**[03:11:52.030] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, as to the exactness, ma'am, kung may meron ba silang nahawakan na official receipt, that I cannot provide an answer.

**[03:12:01.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But at the end of the day, wala silang binigay sa'yo. Pina-explain mo sila, pero wala pa rin silang binigay na official receipt. Kahit anong official receipt for any of these supposed purchases.

**[03:12:15.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Wala po silang nabigay ng official receipts, ma'am, but there were acknowledgement receipts, ma'am, that were provided.

**[03:12:30.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also confirm na yung OVP, halinsunod sa mga proyekto nito, ginagawa naman ito na bumili ng mga medisina, tama ba?

**[03:12:45.130] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, we

**[03:12:45.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
do have our

**[03:12:46.570] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
funding for purchase of supplies.

**[03:12:51.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact, sa item 1, noong sulat, dated August 22, 2022, humingi kayo ng 144.72 million in regular funds for the OVP's medical assistance program. Tama ba?

**[03:13:07.980] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's for the medical and burial assistance, ma'am, but that is for the regular activities of the office.

**[03:13:14.040] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At, Nung binili niya yun, in fact, dun sa letter niyo dated August 22, 2022, may nilaki pa kayo na lingguhang accounting ng mga binipesyaryo ng halaga na inyong hinihingi. For the

**[03:13:31.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
projection, ma'am.

**[03:13:33.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, for the projection.

**[03:13:42.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yung letter niyo din noong September 19, 2021, kahit yun, may kinakalakit na transmittal na the submitted computation and forecasting which says, and I quote, the submitted computation and forecasting the requirement for medical assistance. Tama ba?

**[03:14:02.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. But again, ma'am, that is for the regular activities of the office, for the medical and burial program.

**[03:14:09.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. In short, Mr. Ortonio, maaari sana na ang OVP sa pamamagitan ng SDO ang bumili ng mga gamot at ibigay na lamang ito sa mga umano'y informants. Tama ba? Your Honor,

**[03:14:23.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please.

**[03:14:26.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Consul? Speculative, Your Honor. Your Honor, just because the question is premised or couched as an if question doesn't mean it's automatically speculative. It only becomes speculative, Your Honor, if it requires the witness to make a conjecture without reference to any prior admitted facts, Your Honor. Your Honor,

**[03:14:49.610] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please.

**[03:14:50.030] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
With

**[03:14:50.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the permission of Consuls, I see the Is there a point, Atty. Christine, but, Mr. Ortoño, pwede

**[03:15:03.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
din bang, may binigyan kayo ng medicine, di ba, sa regular budget ng OVP?

**[03:15:10.330] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes po, we do have our medical and burial program. At

**[03:15:14.470] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
yung binibigyan nyo ng medicine at burial program, kasya?

**[03:15:20.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
What we do po at that time is that binibili po namin yung medicine sa partner pharmacies of the OVP and then we release it to the clients who approach the office for medical assistance. In the form of medicine na? In the form of medicine.

**[03:15:37.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So I presume itong binibili niyo gamit yung regular budget, may resibo to?

**[03:15:41.480] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, sir.

**[03:15:42.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Ang ginamit niyo na pang food and medicines sa confidential fund, binigay niyong diretso sa recipient and presumably sabi ng recipient, bibili ko ng pagkain to. Bibili ko na kami to.

**[03:15:54.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the information, Your Honor, provided by the security officer, that's how it was... Ganun yung procedure on how the medical and food aid was... So walang resibo yan? Based on the information I gathered, Sir, no official receipts was...

**[03:16:13.430] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Nakalagay ba sa acknowledgement receipt kung for food or for medicine yan o kayo na lang yung nagtali na ito food, ito medicine?

**[03:16:19.390] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sir, unfortunately, Sir, for the acknowledgement receipts, I was not able to

**[03:16:35.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yung chairs, wala ring resibo yan?

**[03:16:54.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yun yung ipamimili nila for the tables and chairs. So

**[03:16:58.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
what you're saying is, binigay din yung pera sa informant, quote-unquote, that's your wording, para bumili siya ang bibili ng chairs at yun yung bayad sa kanya, quote-unquote. That's

**[03:17:10.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
based on the information provided by the security officer.

**[03:17:15.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Just one final question, Mr. Donald. So literally, may informant, imbis na bigyan na kung ano, Binayaran ng cash para bilid yung tables, yung chairs, yung food, yung medicine. Ganun.

**[03:17:29.250] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, sir. Based on the information provided, sir. By the security officer. By the

**[03:17:35.060] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
security officer. At that's the, yung kwento na binigay sa'yo. That's based, yes, that's based on the information that was provided by the

**[03:17:42.220] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
security officer.

**[03:17:42.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
At hiwalay pa yun sa pinapamigay niyo na food and medical assistance sa regular budget ng OVP.

**[03:17:50.020] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's for the regular clients that we yung public na mga clients. When

**[03:17:54.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you say clients, not informants. Yes, sir.

**[03:17:57.780] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, sir.

**[03:17:58.840] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Parukyano. Yung regular na nagpupunta o humihingi ng tulong o dumudulog. Yes,

**[03:18:04.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
that's correct, Your Honor.

**[03:18:05.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Your Witness,

**[03:18:06.080] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[03:18:06.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I

**[03:18:07.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
hope it gave you the opportunity to take some of the throat meds that some of the senator-judges sent you.

**[03:18:17.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
And I hope you can drink some warm water, counsel. You may continue, Counsel.

**[03:18:23.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. In a bit, I will be asking for time to take my salabat with me, Your Honor.

**[03:18:26.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Counsel. You may.

**[03:18:28.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But in the meantime, Your Honor, I'll proceed with my examination.

**[03:18:36.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:18:37.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Going back to the Audit Observation Memoranda na kanina in-identify mo na galing sa COA. Dito sa Audit Observation Memoranda na ito, particularly Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-12-A, and P-I-12-B and P-I-12-E. Dito sa tatlong AOMs na to, flagged din ng Commission on Audit or pinuna na rin ng Commission on Audit yung payment of incentives or traveling sa mga accomplishment reports. Ayon sa COA, hindi rin ito allowable na gastusin ng confidential funds sa ilalim ng Joint Circular. Tama ba?

**[03:19:20.770] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's what the AOM indicated and we were able to send a reply as well.

**[03:19:25.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And in your reply, you said it is justified under 4.8.2 ng Joint Circular bilang rental of transport vehicle related to confidential activities. Tama ba?

**[03:19:39.770] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[03:19:41.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yung salitang incentives, you will admit and you will agree na hindi ito mag-a-appear sa Joint Circular. Ito ay sa inyong sariling piniling salita. Tama ba?

**[03:19:54.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sorry again.

**[03:19:55.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The word incentive, hindi mo ito makikita sa Joint Circular. In fact, itong salita na ito, kayo lang ang gumamit nito. Kumbaga, kayo ang pumili ng salitang ito na ilalagay sa Accomplishment Report.

**[03:20:09.180] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the JC, that's not included.

**[03:20:13.680] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Based on the JC, yung salitang incentives hindi lumalabas sa kahit anumang enumeration ng item 4.8. ng mga allowable confidential expenses. Tama ba?

**[03:20:29.460] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the JC, no, it does not appear.

**[03:20:33.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngayon, nang mapuna ito ng COA sa AOM for the third quarter of 2023, saka lamang naging transportation expenses ang mga halaga na supposedly nakalaan for the supposed incentives. Tama ba?

**[03:20:53.100] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the report that was shown to me earlier, yes. But again, I would not have any idea on the preparation of the utilization report.

**[03:21:04.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In fact,

**[03:21:08.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa sagot nyo, sa AOM, you invoked 4.8.2, which refers to rental of transport vehicle. At sa inyo namang sagot, sa notice of suspension, ang ininvoke nyo naman, Ginamit niyo ang salitang van rentals and tracking services, correct?

**[03:21:29.410] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[03:21:32.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And

**[03:21:33.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
what is more, sa sagot niyo sa notice of suspension, you confirmed and I quote, the OVP did not make any payment for incentives, correct?

**[03:21:45.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the reply that we provided, yes, we confirmed.

**[03:21:51.490] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Also, Mr. Antonio, you will confirm na in the course, of your preparation sa kurso ng pagpaprepare mo sa reply ng AOM na to. Hanggang maging sa ngayon, wala kang nakita na kahit anong kontrata sa pagrenta ng sasakyan sa buong records ng OVP. Tama ba?

**[03:22:14.120] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I do not have any document po.

**[03:22:24.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, let's go to the certifications dated October 19, 2023, April 19, 2024. and August 27, 2024, which are prosecution's exhibit P-I-12-M, P-I-12-G, and P-I-12-K.

**[03:22:52.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ikaw ang nagsumite ng mga certifications nito sa

**[03:22:59.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Commission on Audit kalakip ng inyong reply sa audit observation ni Miranda.

**[03:23:04.870] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, this is part of the attachment to the replies.

**[03:23:12.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinubmit niyo ito, sinumitin niyo ito sana bilang umano'y patunay ng surveillance activity dahil pare-parehong sinasabi ng mga nasabing certification na ito na walang untoward incident na nagawa o naganap sa implementation ng mga proyekto ng OVP at sa mga engagement mismo ng pangalawang Pangulo. Tama ba?

**[03:23:36.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, po. That's correct.

**[03:23:38.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, ginagamit niyo ang mga certification na ito bilang patunay na inyong opisina ay nag-gastos ng 125 million pesos.

**[03:23:53.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sorry. In short, ginagamit niyo ito bilang patunay na ang nag-gastos ng 125 million ay nag-resulta na walang untoward incident na nangyari dun sa mga identified, supposed, sorry, not identified, but supposed confidential project.

**[03:24:16.430] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As provided po by the security officer, this is the document that we attach to the replies.

**[03:24:25.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But you will confirm that hindi mandato ng VP... You will confirm na mandato talaga ng VPSPG na panatilihin ang siguridad ng Vice Presidente. Tama ba?

**[03:24:43.270] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's part of the duties and responsibilities of the VPSPG.

**[03:24:47.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Correct. And you will also confirm na beginning October 2022 and during the entire relevant period, the Vice President already had at least 470 protective security personnel or protective agents. Tama ba?

**[03:25:11.410] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As to the exact number, ma'am, of the VP, SPG personnel, I cannot comment, ma'am, but there is a unit that handles the security of the VP. which is the BPSPG.

**[03:25:23.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Let me refresh your memory, Mr. Antonio. We will be showing you your letter to the DBM dated October 11, 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-D.

**[03:25:49.780] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[03:25:50.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Diyan sa letter na yan, humihingi kayo ng addition o ng augmentation para sa special duty allowance

**[03:26:01.810] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ng VPSPG dahil tumaas ang bilang ng security officers and security or protective agents ng Vice President. Tama ba?

**[03:26:13.050] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:26:13.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi mo rin dyan sa letter na yan na as of October 10, 2022, the total count per roster of troops is 473.

**[03:26:25.740] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. I mentioned, ma'am, na...

**[03:26:27.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Antonio. I'm satisfied with your answer.

**[03:26:37.870] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also confirm na noong una, humigit-kumulang 95 lamang ang security personnel ng OVP. Tama ba? Kaya nga kayo humingi ng augmentation for special duty allowance dahil biglang nag-increase ito by almost four-folds. Ma'am,

**[03:27:00.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I can only answer for the security deployment during the term of VP Sara.

**[03:27:08.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Correct.

**[03:27:11.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hindi ba isina-add nyo rin dito sa letter na ito, in-explain nyo, kasama ang letter dated August 22, 2022. Dito in-explain nyo bakit kayo humihingi ng special duty allowance.

**[03:27:32.880] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am.

**[03:27:34.360] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi nyo, from 1995, Tumaas nga ang bilang ng security

**[03:27:39.120] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
detail

**[03:27:40.240] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ng security officer or protective agent. Sa ilalim ng SPG, ayon nga sa iyo, yung mandato ay protectahan at i-ensure ang siguridad ng vice-presidente. Tama ba?

**[03:27:56.180] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[03:28:00.150] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Aaminin mo rin na yung security detail ng vice-presidente, hindi ito mga karaniwang security guards. Ito ay miyembro ng AFP at PNP. Tama ba?

**[03:28:15.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
In

**[03:28:15.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
fact, sinabi mo rin sa same letter na yan na

**[03:28:22.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
364 ng karagdagang or ng security detail ng Vice Presidente ay mga miyembro ng Armed Forces of the Philippines. At 140 naman ay miyembro ng Philippine National Police. Tama ba?

**[03:28:39.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sa

**[03:28:40.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
inyong kaalaman, Mr. Ortonio, Meron ba ang ibang pangalawang Pangulo sa history ng Pilipinas na nagkaroon ng ganito karaming security detail?

**[03:28:51.820] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, I cannot comment for the previous Vice Presidents, Ma'am.

**[03:28:58.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you do not know? The answer is you do not know?

**[03:29:01.740] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
What I can say is I cannot comment, Ma'am, because I have no personal knowledge.

**[03:29:06.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You have no personal knowledge. That's correct.

**[03:29:11.960] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also confirm na yung special duty allowance na inyong Hiningi, ito ay karagdagang allowance lamang para dito sa VPSPG. Ibig sabihin, itong membro ng mga VPSPG, kumukuha na ito ng, or tumatanggap na ng sweldo mula sa AFP, sa ilalim ng General Appropriations Act for the members of the AFP. At yung mga membro naman ng PNP, tumatanggap ng sahod mula sa PNP. Kung

**[03:29:43.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
alam ninyo, Mr.

**[03:29:44.920] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Antonio.

**[03:29:46.130] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Council? I

**[03:29:47.150] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
will have to object, Your Honor, because Council has not shown the relevance of the salaries of BPSPG to the confidential funds. And in fact, there was no finding from the COA-ICPAO regarding this matter.

**[03:30:00.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, on two points, Your Honor.

**[03:30:02.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
First,

**[03:30:04.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, the fact that this was not flagged by the COA does not preclude this honorable court from making a finding on whether it is irregular or not. Number two, Your Honor, it's very relevant, Your Honor, because the primary justification for the confidential funds is for ensuring the security. of the Vice President which is already governed by the mandate of the VP-SPG. In short, Your Honor, they requested funds, additional funds for an item that is already answered for by the mandate of the VP-SPG and which is already paid for from a separate funding, Your Honor.

**[03:30:54.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Quick reply, Your Honor.

**[03:30:56.190] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
The issue on the VPSPG salary, Your Honor, being allegedly covered by the confidential funds is not among the allegations in the articles of impeachment. Neither was this matter alleged in the impeachment complaints. Number two, the impeachment court only relies on the findings of the COA, Your Honor. That's the reason why the COA was placed on the witness stand and testify on its matters, Your Honor, with all due respect that The matter of determining whether the salaries were indeed covered by the confidential funds is a matter outside the powers of the impeachment court to determine, Your Honor.

**[03:31:35.610] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, if I may just reply, just to set the record straight, Your Honor, because the prosecution

**[03:31:40.550] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
never...

**[03:31:46.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
No point and at no time did the prosecution say that the confidential funds were used to pay for the salary of the VPSPG. What we are saying, Your Honor, is that the VPSPG is already paid from a separate account, from a separate fund, salary, for the purpose of affording or providing protection to the Vice President. That's now, Your Honor, they requested for funds additional funds to pay for the very same protection. Your Honor, please. That was, that's already being, that's already being, that's already being afforded by Actually, actually, counsels,

**[03:32:30.520] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please. Actually, Attorney May, you already were able to actually say what you want to say on the record based on your comments and the objection. I will have to sustain the objection of counsel, respondent. The salary of the VP, SPG is irrelevant because the confidential funds cannot be used to pay for the salaries or for security, and if at all, to buy confidential information, if at all, which has also been shown to have been done. We see the point, counsel, Attorney May, that she has, the Vice President, has 473 security personnel already. that, as stated in your offer, should be doing the job that they're spending this confidential fund for. However, the witness has already answered that he may not be in a position to answer that question specifically. Continue with your point. Move on, Atty. Wayne.

**[03:33:25.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, you will also confirm na sa inyong sulat na may petsang August 22, 2022, sinabi niyo na as early as July 1, 2022, pitong OVP satellite office na ang naitatag ng Office of the Vice President. Ito yung mga satellite offices sa Bacolod, Cebu, Dagupan, Davao, Surigao, Tacloban, at Zamboanga. Tama ba?

**[03:33:52.490] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[03:33:54.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At nung point, sorry, bawat isa nito, sinabi ninyo, and I quote, are catering to an average of 100 to 150 clients per day. Tama ba?

**[03:34:05.290] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[03:34:08.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will also agree na walang naiulat na untoward incidents sa roll-out ng mga satellite offices na iyon bago ang December 21, 2022. Tama ba?

**[03:34:24.850] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
In terms of the operations within the satellite office, no untoward incidents.

**[03:34:31.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:34:33.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will confirm that during the roll-out of these satellite offices, wala pang confidential funds.

**[03:34:42.440] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Office of the Vice President. Tama ba?

**[03:34:44.340] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
During this time, ma'am.

**[03:34:45.720] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
During

**[03:34:46.320] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
this time.

**[03:34:47.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:34:48.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you will also confirm na beginning fourth quarter of 2023, up to the present, you continue to roll out satellite offices and projects under your umbrella programs, good governance program, the social economic delivery program. Tama ba?

**[03:35:07.750] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. And

**[03:35:08.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
up to this time, wala ding naiuulat na untoward incident sa mga rollout ng mga proyektong ito. Tama ba?

**[03:35:18.690] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:35:22.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, etong certification, which is prosecution's evidence, P-I-12-M, nakasulat dito na this, and I quote, this certification is being issued upon the request of the Office of the Vice President for whatever legal purpose it may serve. End of quote. Tama ba?

**[03:35:47.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am, based on the document.

**[03:35:49.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Kung gayon, hindi ito record na iniingatan sa karaniwang takbo ng gawain ng Office of the Vice President. In short, this is not a record kept in the ordinary business of the Office of the Vice President. Yes?

**[03:36:04.510] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, I would say so.

**[03:36:08.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Certification was only produced upon request. Tama ba? Based on...

**[03:36:17.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, for

**[03:36:17.800] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
this specific document, ma'am, I cannot say that it is upon request, ma'am. I cannot, based on my understanding, I

**[03:36:25.260] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
cannot assume. Even if it is expressly stated in this document, that this certification is being issued upon the request of the Office of the Vice President. Hindi mo rin, hindi mo rin masasabi na issued ito upon the request. Ask and answer, Your Honor. No, Your Honor, that's just a follow-up, Your Honor.

**[03:36:45.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness will answer.

**[03:36:48.170] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I cannot automatically assume, ma'am, na it is made because, through a request, just merely because of a statement that indicates that based on a request.

**[03:37:01.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, so ibig sabihin mo, maaaring nagkamali lang yung explicit statement na ito?

**[03:37:06.040] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, please.

**[03:37:08.260] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What's the basis of the objection?

**[03:37:09.640] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Misleading, Your

**[03:37:10.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor. Maaaring nagkamali lang. Or

**[03:37:12.740] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
argumentative. Or argumentative. Or argumentative. Sustained.

**[03:37:18.530] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's the witness answer, counsel, however unacceptable it may be.

**[03:37:26.100] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Also,

**[03:37:27.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
in those four certifications that you were earlier confronted with, wala ring nakalagay na kasulat na amount, wala ring nakasulat na pangalan na pinagbigyan ng confidential funds, walang sinasabi kung saan ginastos basically yung confidential funds na pinapatunguhan. dyan sa apat na certifications na yan. Tama ba?

**[03:37:54.520] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am, no. It does not indicate.

**[03:37:58.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[03:38:04.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Also, Mr. Ortonio, can you please refer to Exhibit P-I-12-M. This is the first certification.

**[03:38:17.120] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Do you see that?

**[03:38:18.500] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:38:19.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will confirm na yung period na sakop ng certification na yan ay December 20. to December 31. Tama ba?

**[03:38:32.530] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document, ma'am, yes, it indicates 20 to 31.

**[03:38:37.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero ang mismong liquidation kung saan nyo inilakip yung certification na yan, ang period na sakop ay December 21 hanggang December 31 lamang. 31. Tama.

**[03:38:50.890] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the documents that were submitted.

**[03:38:53.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So in short, may one day na covered ng certification na hindi covered. ng liquidation. Tama ba?

**[03:39:02.210] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If you will base it, ma'am, based on my understanding, if you will base it on the liquidation report, merong isang araw.

**[03:39:08.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Merong isang araw. Thank you.

**[03:39:16.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, may I just have one minute, Your Honor, to take a sip from my...

**[03:39:23.130] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Please, counsel, take your salabat,

**[03:39:23.850] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
counsel.

**[03:39:24.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Salabat ko.

**[03:39:33.910] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You may also do the same, Mr. Ortonio. Okay,

**[03:39:36.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
sir.

**[03:39:53.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. May I proceed, Your Honor?

**[03:39:59.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, Mr. Ortonio, balikan natin yung sulat ninyo, dated November 30, 2023.

**[03:40:09.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
which is prosecution's exhibit P-I-12-D. So,

**[03:40:24.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
ready with you?

**[03:40:25.590] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
P-I

**[03:40:27.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
-12-D.

**[03:41:10.670] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Diyan

**[03:41:11.510] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa same letter na yan, sinabi niyo, and I quote, the OVP identified sa letter na yan, sinikap niyong ipaliwanag ang

**[03:41:25.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
pangangailangan niyo for confidential funds. Sinabi ninyo, And I quote, the OVP identified the need for the conduct of surveillance activities to enable to craft narrowly targeted and responsive programs that would ensure peace and order and prevent criminal activities, particularly those of organized criminal groups and communist insurgents. End of quote.

**[03:41:53.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ngunit, we will confirm sa parehong sulat ninyo dated August 22, 2022, Inamin nyo na nga na noong July 1 pa lamang bago pa humiling ang OVP ng confidential funds, natukoy na ng OVP, sorry, in that same letter, I'm referring to that same letter. In that same letter, inamin nyo na as early as July 1, 2022, bago pa humiling ang OVP ng confidential funds, natukoy na ng OVP ang mga programa at aktibidad. na nakutuon sa poverty alleviation, magabanta sa kapayapaan at kaayusan, at pagsulong ng kaunlarang pang-ekonomiya. Tama ba?

**[03:42:35.130] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. That's indicated in the letter.

**[03:42:38.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Dagdag niyo pa, bilang katwiran, I quote, It was necessary to conduct surveillance activities to determine where best to implement its programs to maximize their impact and reach the isolated, underserved, and unserved areas. As such, in August 2022, the OVP submitted a request through the DPM for confidential fund budget for surveillance activities which are intended to support the mandate and operations of the OVP. Tama ba?

**[03:43:11.570] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct.

**[03:43:13.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Subalit, balik tayo sa letter niyo dated August 22, 2022, which is Prosecutions Exhibit P-I-4-A. You will confirm. na dun sa paliwanag nyo, sa paghingi nyo ng confidential funds, nowhere there.

**[03:43:31.130] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
O

**[03:43:31.610] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
wala, kahit saan man dyan, lumalabas ang salitang surveillance. Tama ba?

**[03:43:45.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the letter that we submitted, ma'am, there's no indication of the word surveillance.

**[03:43:52.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Dahil nga, ang purpose na sinabi ninyo ay... and I quote, foreign consideration of the safe implementation of the various projects and activities under the good governance program and the conduct of official engagements and functional representation.

**[03:44:07.750] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Diyan sa same letter na yan, hindi rin sinabi na gagamitin ng confidential funds para sa identification of areas for program implementation. Tama ba?

**[03:44:17.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
It is not specifically stated, ma'am, in the letter, ma'am. Although in the letter, ma'am, there's already in consideration of the safe implementation of various projects and activities under the good governance.

**[03:44:30.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero hindi sinabi dito na the confidential funds will specifically be used for identification of areas for program implementation.

**[03:44:41.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the letter request, ma'am, there's no specific explanation. And

**[03:44:47.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the explanation given was in fact for the safe implementation of OVP initiatives and confidence meeting. Confidence building. Tama pa?

**[03:44:58.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the letter request, ma'am, that's the wordings that were indicated.

**[03:45:02.890] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And also, if you will refer to the physical and financial plan that you subsequently submitted to the DPM, sinabi niyo pa, nilagay niyo, sina-add niyo sa physical target, number of identified areas with surveillance conducted and monitored. Hindi ba?

**[03:45:41.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
If we will base it in the document, ma'am. Yes. So,

**[03:45:45.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
in short, kahit hindi nakalagay ang bilang, meron ang mga identified areas. May mga lugar nang natukoy dun sa physical and financial land. Tama ba?

**[03:45:54.890] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, I cannot directly answer, ma'am, if there were identified areas already when the PFP was crafted, ma'am.

**[03:46:03.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. So, punta na lang tayo ngayon sa August 22, dun sa dating August 22, 2022 letter. Nainamin mo nga, As early as July 1, 2022, meron ng 7 satellite office na naitalaga sa Bacolod, Cebu, Dagupan, Davao, Surigao, Tacloban, Zamboanga. Tama ba?

**[03:46:24.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the letter that we submitted.

**[03:46:27.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And in that same letter, naglakip pa kayo ng Annex A na parehong sulat ng actual na beneficiaryo ng medical assistance linggo-linggo mula unang linggo ng July 22 hanggang sa mga sumusunod. Yes,

**[03:46:45.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
this is the projection that we submitted.

**[03:46:53.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At nakalimbag din sa item 3 ng same letter na yan na tatlo pang karagdagang satellite office ang augmentation ng libreng sakay, tatlong OVP food truck, at PIS 911 sa Marawi. Tama ba?

**[03:47:14.130] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's indicated in item number 3. for the additional positions.

**[03:47:19.970] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, so even before the confidential funds were released or bago pa mailabas ang confidential funds, meron na kayong mga na-identify na paglalagyan ng mga satellite offices, tama ba?

**[03:47:34.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, there were plans already.

**[03:47:36.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And pagro-rolloutan ng mga programa ng OVP. For activities.

**[03:47:45.080] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Diyan sa November 30, 2023 letter din ninyo, sinabi nyo, and

**[03:47:54.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I quote, The OVP opened exploratory talks on the surveillance activities to be conducted and identified information agents to be engaged. The OVP built its information database and established a network of information agents. As such, when the requested confidential funds was released on December 13, 2022 through SARO BMB-C-22-001,

**[03:48:25.530] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2024, the OVP was able to finalize definitive agreements and obligations based on the plan. End of quote.

**[03:48:36.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Inilarawan ninyo sa sulat na yan ng exploratory talks. Tama ba?

**[03:48:40.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, this is based on the information from our security officer.

**[03:48:44.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sinabi nyo rin, information agent na identified kasama ng information database, network of information agents. Tama ba?

**[03:48:53.390] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, as provided by our security officer. Again,

**[03:48:57.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
wala, may isa man dito ang nabanggit sa August 2022 confidential phone request. Tama ba?

**[03:49:07.380] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the initial request, no information indicated.

**[03:49:11.500] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At wala rin, kahit alin man dito ang lumalabas sa PFP for 2022. Tama ba?

**[03:49:22.110] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
When you say, you mean, ma'am, yung...

**[03:49:25.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
These items. These words, information database, network information agents, identified agents, walang kahit anuman na lumalabas.

**[03:49:36.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on the document presented earlier, ma'am, no such wordings.

**[03:49:42.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hindi rin kayo nakilahok sa supposed explanatory talks na ito. Binatay nyo lamang ito sa kung anong inireport sa inyo. Tama ba?

**[03:49:50.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I had no participation, ma'am, because on matters of Security, ma'am, that is not my expertise, ma'am. So, this is from our security officer.

**[03:50:02.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. In that same letter, as I've mentioned, and as I've read, binanggit niya rin finalized definitive agreements.

**[03:50:11.280] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:50:13.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero wala kayong niisang isinabmit din na kahit isang definitive agreement. Kahit isa sa mga definitive agreements na inyong tinutukoy dito sa inyong November 30, 2023 letter. Tama ba?

**[03:50:27.960] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, when you pertain to definitive agreements, ma'am, you mean documented agreements, ma'am?

**[03:50:33.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes. Kasi para maging definitive agreements, kailangan cast in stones. Ibig sabihin, nakasulat siya.

**[03:50:41.030] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, in terms of any documentation or documented agreements, ma'am, there were no documents that were provided, ma'am. And as to how our agreements were made on the ground, ma'am, again, I cannot provide any information.

**[03:51:05.450] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will confirm that from the time that Sara was released on December 13 to the drawdown of the check noong December 20, 2022, itong araw lamang ang nag-lapse. Ang posisyon ba ng inyong opisina sa loob ng 7 araw na iyon na finalize ninyo ang definitive agreements sa supposed nationwide network ng mga ahente na inyong binanggit sa inyong letter.

**[03:51:40.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, as to how the agreements were finalized or made, ma'am, that I cannot provide an answer, ma'am, if those were done within the seven-day period.

**[03:51:53.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. In that same letter, for the first time, you also denied that the 2022 confidential funds were spent in just 11 days. And your explanation was, and I quote, on December 20, 2022, A cash advance for confidential fund was drawn to facilitate payment. Please take note of these words. For the obligations already incurred. Hence, the 125 million confidential funds were fully utilized for expenses planned, implemented, and paid during the three-month period. meaning October to December 22 and not within mere 11 days as what the audit observations may have suggested. End of quote. Nakalagay yan sa inyong sagot.

**[03:52:50.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Ma'am, in terms of... No, it's

**[03:52:53.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
okay, Mr. Antonio. I'm satisfied with your answer. Your

**[03:52:55.800] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please.

**[03:52:57.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, counsel?

**[03:52:58.400] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Can the witness be allowed to answer? Your Honor,

**[03:53:00.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the witness already satisfied. The

**[03:53:04.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
question was answerable by yes or no. You will be afforded your chance, Attorney Christine, during your cross, to make him explain that point.

**[03:53:13.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So you mentioned earlier,

**[03:53:18.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
obligations, quote-unquote, already incurred, and expenses already paid. So ang ibig sabihin, nang already incurred, ay nangako ng magbayad ang OVP bago pa mailabas ang pera. Tama ba?

**[03:53:33.580] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Ma'am, I cannot specifically say, ma'am, because arrangements made on the ground, ma'am, I have no personal knowledge on it.

**[03:53:43.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pero lumagda ka sa letter na yan, di ba?

**[03:53:45.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Again, ma'am, this information, ma'am, came from the information from our security officer.

**[03:53:51.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, ibig sabihin, sinulat mo lang mechanically exactong words na finid sa'yo ng kausap mo, ganun ba? Na hindi mo naiintindihan kung ano yung sinusulat. Tama ba?

**[03:54:03.680] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
First, ma'am, hindi po siya mechanically na sinulat ko lang po kung ano yung sinabi. Of course, ma'am, based on the information that was provided to me, ma'am, yun yung nilatag ko doon sa letter, ma'am, for the drafting of the letter.

**[03:54:20.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Counsel, allow me, kayo po ang gumawa ng sulat, ginawa orto niya, di ba? Yes, Your Honor. Kayo po ang gumawa ng sulat? Yes, Your Honor. Bases sa nakuha niyo yung impormasyon kay Gina, kay Colonel Lachica, at iba pang opisyal. Ano pong ibig sabihin niyo dyan sa pahayag niyong yan?

**[03:54:40.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
To

**[03:54:41.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
facilitate payment for the obligations already incurred. Ibig sabihin, may utang na, babayaran na lang. Na-incur na

**[03:54:53.010] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
yung expense, babayaran na lang. Sir, based on what was shared to me, sir, hindi siya utang, no? but arrangements have been done on mga activities that will be done and then the payment will be done once the money would be available already.

**[03:55:14.190] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Mr. Antonio, what do you mean by obligations already incurred? Anong ibig sabihin para sa inyo nung sinulat niya ngayon? Obligations already incurred. Sa simpleng

**[03:55:26.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
salita, bayarin. Ano, sir? What I meant on this statement, sir, is that there are already arrangements that have been coordinated, sir, prior to the release of the fund. When

**[03:55:40.390] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you say arrangements nga, may pinangako ng bayaran, hindi pa lang nababayaran. Bayarin. Obligations already incurred. May obligation na. May pangako na nabayaran.

**[03:55:54.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Sir, hindi siya pangako, sir, na... bayaran, but meron na siyang mga, how do I explain it, sir? Parang meron ng arrangement, sir, that will be done and then yung payment, sir, will be once available na siya.

**[03:56:12.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sir, in the ordinary course of meaning, that's how you define obligations already incurred that you wrote?

**[03:56:20.020] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, sir. Based on how I understand the information, sir, that's how I indicated it in the letter.

**[03:56:27.940] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That's his answer, counsel. You may proceed.

**[03:56:31.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, but you will confirm that on those three months referred to in your letter, October, November, and November, at the early parts ng December, wala pang allotment na maaaring pagbasihan ng OVP ng obligasyon ng confidential funds, tama ba?

**[03:56:48.140] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There was no allotment as of

**[03:56:50.040] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
yes. Kung gayon, wala ding certification of availability of funds. na maaaring nailabas para sa mga obligasyon na iyon. Tama ba?

**[03:56:58.540] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There was no document yet released.

**[03:57:02.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Alam nyo din, Mr. Antonio, dahil sa tagal ng inyong paninilbihan bilang kawaninang gobyerno, alam ninyo na walang obligasyon ng gobyerno na maaaring pasukin, na walang appropriation at katumbas na allotment. Tama ba?

**[03:57:16.090] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[03:57:18.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At alam din ninyo, base dun sa Joint Circular na iyong paulit-ulit. na si Knight sa mga letters ninyo, alam ninyo ng cash advance ay dapat mauna sa gastos. Tama ba?

**[03:57:34.370] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[03:57:36.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hindi ito maaaring legal na gamitin para i-reimburse o pantakip sa mga gastusing na gawa na. Tama ba?

**[03:57:43.560] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
For reimbursements, ma'am, yes, that's indicated in the HAC.

**[03:57:47.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, thank you. Now, pumunta na tayo sa notice of, sa your reply to notice of suspension. Ikaw din sumagot sa reply. Ikaw din ang sumagot sa notice of suspension. Diba?

**[03:58:02.700] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. I'm one of

**[03:58:04.000] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the signatory. The notice of suspension that I'm referring to is Prosecution's Exhibit P-I-13-A.

**[03:58:30.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Dito sa notice of suspension na ito, pinunanangkowa, and I quote, There is discrepancy in the total amount of expenses based on the submitted accomplishment report as against the DEPs. Ibig sabihin ng COA, hindi nagtutugma ang total amount ng expenses sa accomplishment report at sa DEPs na sinubmit ng inyong opisina. Tama ba?

**[03:58:57.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

**[03:58:58.770] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ayon sa COA, ipinakita ng accomplishment report na iyong sinumite na ginamit ang confidential funds sa mga gastusing may kabuuhan ng 125 million pesos. Pero pagdating sa TEPs, nang itotal na ito, ang gastusing actual na naganap ay may kabuhuhang 125,150,000 pesos. Tama ba?

**[03:59:28.260] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes po, that's correct.

**[03:59:29.400] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
In short, may pagkakaibang 150,000.

**[03:59:32.850] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[03:59:34.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At nung sumagot kayo, dyan sa notice of suspension na yan, I'm referring to your letter dated March 13, 2024, which is prosecution's exhibit P-I-13-A.

**[03:59:49.210] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa

**[03:59:50.910] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sagot ninyo, ang paliwanag ninyo ay yung mga resibo, I quote, may have been in a Tama ba? Yan yung paliwanag nyo dun sa P150,000.

**[04:00:21.920] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, that's correct. Based on our reply.

**[04:00:24.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
But nine days later, sumulat ka ulit sa COA supplementing that earlier reply. Your supplemental reply is dated March 22, 2024 which is prosecution exhibit P-I-13-B. Now, dyan sa supplemental reply, ipinaliwanag niyong muli yung discrepancy ng 150,000. Ngayon, ang paliwanag ninyo ay, quote, The reconciliation shows that an amount of 50,000 pesos under payment of reward and an amount of 100,000 pesos under purchase of supplies were provided by Assistant Secretary Lemuel G. Ortonio out of his personal funds. Tama ba? But

**[04:02:00.180] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
do you recall, Making that statement in your supplemental reply, Mr. Ortonio. Based

**[04:02:05.730] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
on

**[04:02:05.990] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the

**[04:02:06.230] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
information also flashed on

**[04:02:09.010] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
the screen, yes.

**[04:02:12.220] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa'yo galing yung 100. Ikaw yung Lemuel G. Ortonio, Assistant Secretary na pinapatunguhan.

**[04:02:20.380] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I

**[04:02:20.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
mean, nire-refer dito sa sulat na ito. Tama ba?

**[04:02:23.780] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct po. So

**[04:02:25.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
alam mo rin, dahil ikaw ang nag-abot ng pera, alam mo rin kung kailan siya inabot. Kung kailan siya binigay. Tama ba? Yes. So, by the time that you prepared your initial response to the notice of suspension, your letter dated March 13, 2024, yung exhibit P-I-13-A na inyong tinignan kanina, at that point, alam niyo na rin na nagbigay ka ng 150,000 pesos. Tama ba? But

**[04:02:56.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I had to confirm first with our special dispersing officer. So, we needed to make a reply. So, we sent an initial reply and submitted a supplemental reply.

**[04:03:08.550] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, you are trying to say na ginawa mo yung letter dated March 13, 2024, nakapagbigay ka na ng eksplanasyon na hindi mo pa biniverify dun sa Special Dispersing Officer at sa Security Officer.

**[04:03:24.550] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There is already a coordination.

**[04:03:26.270] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
There is already a coordination.

**[04:03:27.830] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Pero

**[04:03:28.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
hindi mo na itanong. Naitanong mo lamang nine days later.

**[04:03:32.610] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's why we submitted a supplemental reply

**[04:03:35.210] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
to

**[04:03:35.650] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
ensure that we provide the proper information. At

**[04:03:38.670] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sinabi niyo pa rito, that was due to the urgency of the expenses. So ibig sabihin, may sinabi sa inyong expenses na urgent kaya humingi ng 150,000. In short, binaliwanag sa iyo kung bakit humingi ng 150,000. Yes?

**[04:04:00.950] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Nilapit po ito sa akin ni Ms. Gina Acosta, our SDO. At sinabi niya. And then she mentioned that there was a request from Colonel Lachica for emergency.

**[04:04:10.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And there was urgency for that request?

**[04:04:13.370] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[04:04:15.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[04:04:15.660] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
hindi rin karaniwan na may hinihi sa'yo ng 150,000 from your own pocket? Hindi naman ito karaniwang ginagawa sa OVP? Or karaniwan ba ito?

**[04:04:26.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No, it's not common.

**[04:04:27.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Pero nung gumagawa ka ng notice of suspension, bigla mo nakalimutan na merong 150,000. Sinabi mo kanina, sinabi mo na kanina, na in-explain sa'yo,

**[04:04:38.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sinabi

**[04:04:40.900] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
mo na kanina, na pinaliwanag sa inyo ni Ms. Acosta, na galing kay Colonel Lachica, yung paliwanag ng urgency for the request. Tama ba?

**[04:04:53.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. Counsel?

**[04:04:57.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Ask and answer it already, Your Honor.

**[04:05:02.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Proceed, Attorney May.

**[04:05:05.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, you are salary grade 29, correct?

**[04:05:10.770] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct, ma'am.

**[04:05:11.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And you're receiving roughly how much in salary monthly, Mr. Antonio?

**[04:05:20.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:05:22.770] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the objection,

**[04:05:23.870] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
counsel? Relevance. It's very relevant, Your Honor. It goes into the credibility of this witness. And

**[04:05:29.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
if you can afford 150, counsel, if you remember, Gina said the same yesterday.

**[04:05:35.210] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Witness, please answer the question.

**[04:05:37.670] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Salary grade 29, roughly about 180-190 gross.

**[04:05:45.470] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So yung binigay mo ng 150,000 from your personal funds is just around 40,000 short of your monthly salary. Tama ba?

**[04:06:00.550] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's correct.

**[04:06:01.850] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Nung binigay mo ba ito? Yung 150,000, may hiningi kang resibo

**[04:06:09.370] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
patunay na nagbigay ka ng 150,000?

**[04:06:13.820] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
At the time po, because of the urgency and dahil humingi po ng tulong si Ms. Gina sa akin, I provided her with the request.

**[04:06:23.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And were you able to recover the 150,000, Mr. Ortonio?

**[04:06:27.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Unfortunately, ma'am, I was not reimbursed anymore.

**[04:06:30.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You were not reimbursed.

**[04:06:34.060] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Up to today, Mr. Ortoño?

**[04:06:36.900] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:06:37.980] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At etong

**[04:06:41.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
150,000 naman na ito, hindi ito nag-appear. Yung pagbigay mo ng 150,000, hindi ito nag-appear sa kahit anumang record ng Office of the Vice President.

**[04:06:51.640] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Hindi.

**[04:06:59.170] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Now, pumunta na tayo sa purchase of supplies.

**[04:07:10.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, Mr. Ortonio, kasama sa sinasabing yung pinaglaanan ninyo ng confidential funds ay ang purchase of or payment of purchase supplies, payment of tables and chairs, payment of desktop computers and printers. Tama ba?

**[04:07:30.630] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Correct.

**[04:07:31.930] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Ang mga desktop computer, printer, mesa, atupuan ay mga bagay na hindi nauubos or tinatawag na non-consumable. Tama ba?

**[04:07:43.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[04:07:45.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Again, more than or almost two decades na kayo naglilingkod sa

**[04:08:09.570] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes,

**[04:08:15.040] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I would say so.

**[04:08:17.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At alam niyo rin na nakatalang ari-ariyan ng gobyerno. Ibig sabihin, yung mga government properties These are recorded. May karampatang property number, property acknowledgement receipt, accountable officer at annual inventory. Tama ba?

**[04:08:38.420] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, if procurements through the regular funding.

**[04:08:43.190] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At sinasubmit din ito, yung inventory na ito, isinasubmit din ito sa opisina ng Commission on Audit. Tama ba?

**[04:08:56.080] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, yes, for the inventory.

**[04:08:58.840] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. Pero, aminin mo, you will confirm na para dito sa mga purchase ng supposed supplies, computers, tables and chairs, wala kayong sinubmit na inventory para dito sa kuwa. Tama ba?

**[04:09:18.310] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Specifically for these items, they were not reflected because of...

**[04:09:23.730] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm not asking... Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Ortonia. I'm not asking for the... Your Honor, please. I'm just asking for... I'm just asking whether or not you submitted an inventory to the COA. Attorney

**[04:09:34.970] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Christine?

**[04:09:35.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
The witness is

**[04:09:36.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
answering the question, Your Honor, if he can be allowed to answer.

**[04:09:40.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Again, let it be a subject matter, of course. I think the answer given was sufficient already.

**[04:09:46.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay. At para din dito sa mga supplies na ito, wala ka rin nakitang, wala rin binigay sa iyo na invoice or official receipt. Wala nitong, tama ba?

**[04:09:59.530] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Nine.

**[04:10:00.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Wala ka rin nakitang records ng sales invoices na ito at mga official receipts sa buong record ng OVP. Tama ba?

**[04:10:07.790] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
None, ma'am.

**[04:10:10.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Wala ring dokumento na magpapakita na ang mga bagay na ito ay i-donate ng OVP sa kahit sino man. Tama ba?

**[04:10:26.350] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No record in

**[04:10:28.390] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
terms of

**[04:10:28.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
the donation.

**[04:10:30.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Hanggang ngayon, Ikaw personally, Mr. Ortonio, hindi mo rin maituturo kung nasaan na itong mga mesa, upuan, supplies, computers na nagkakahalagang 3.5 million. Hindi mo naman ituro kung nasaan sila.

**[04:10:47.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Considering that these are procurements for confidential activities, no ma'am, I would have no personal knowledge on where these items are.

**[04:10:59.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
And I would suppose wala rin. nakapagturo sa office ng OVP kung nasaan itong mga mesa, computer, supplies na ito. Tama ba? Your Honor, please.

**[04:11:12.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Attorney Christine.

**[04:11:13.650] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Speculative, Your Honor. How is that speculative, Your Honor? Or asking for an opinion. How is that asking for an opinion, Your Honor? I am asking whether, to his knowledge, there was anyone in the OVP who could point to these non-consumable items. Her wording was, I suppose. She

**[04:11:32.930] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
did not say, to your

**[04:11:33.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
knowledge. Okay, then I withdraw, I drop, Your Honor, the phrase, I suppose. Mr. Ortonio, tama ba?

**[04:11:41.230] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No,

**[04:11:44.790] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
I would not have any knowledge also if there are other personnel in the office who would know in the OVP.

**[04:11:57.010] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Conversely, hindi mo rin masasabi kung talagang kung merong nakakalam kung talaga nag-i-exist itong mga mesa, tables, sorry, tables and chairs, computers and supplies. Your

**[04:12:11.050] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Honor, please. Already asked and answered and repetitive.

**[04:12:17.180] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Move on, counsel.

**[04:12:19.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay.

**[04:12:23.050] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Earlier, we, earlier,

**[04:12:29.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, we just parked one item, yung certifications that were attached to the liquidation reports.

**[04:13:09.740] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
You will confirm, Mr. Antonio. The vice president herself signed all those certifications.

**[04:13:22.710] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, ma'am. Based on the documents that were presented.

**[04:13:25.950] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
By the way, Mr. Antonio, earlier you mentioned that you submitted PIORs. Did you ask Ms. Acosta and the security officer kung ano, kung meron man, ano-ano itong mga threats na na-identify? in the course of the disbursement of the confidential funds. Naitanong niyo ba?

**[04:13:52.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
No, I did not ask anymore, ma'am.

**[04:13:55.310] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So just to summarize, Mr. Ortonio, doon sa August 22,

**[04:14:04.290] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2022 letter, may

**[04:14:09.620] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I request the technical booth to please flash on the screen.

**[04:14:16.060] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Kindly flash the August 22, 2022 letter signed by Mr. Ortonio.

**[04:14:39.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just to summarize, In that letter, ang pinigay niyong

**[04:14:46.790] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
maliwanag para sa confidential funds ay para sa tatlong bagay.

**[04:14:52.230] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Good

**[04:14:55.600] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
governance program, functional representation para

**[04:15:02.070] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa travel ng Pangulo. Tama ba?

**[04:15:25.240] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
What we indicated, ma'am, is on the conduct of official engagements and functional representation in domestic and international and domestic events.

**[04:15:36.480] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So, three items, three projects, or three items. You have governance, good governance program, you have official engagements and functional representation. Tama ba?

**[04:15:49.150] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's basically two, ma'am. That's the implementation for good governance program and Conduct of official engagements and functional representation.

**[04:15:58.140] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Thank you, Mr. Antonio. I stand corrected on that. So those two items. Pagdating sa PFP, ang justification for the 2022 PFP and justification was good governance program. Tama ba?

**[04:16:12.200] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the documents earlier.

**[04:16:15.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sa

**[04:16:17.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
2023 naman, socio-economic delivery program. Ask and answer, Your Honor, earlier.

**[04:16:25.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'm sorry, counsel.

**[04:16:29.200] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What

**[04:16:29.660] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
was the question, attorney May?

**[04:16:31.320] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
For the 2023 certification, Your Honor, the justification was socio-economic delivery program.

**[04:16:37.500] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
On the assumption that she's winding up, attorney Christine, because she said she's summarizing the points that the witness had already answered to. I will allow it. Witness may answer?

**[04:16:54.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, Mr.

**[04:16:55.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Antonio,

**[04:16:55.970] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
do you want the question repeated? Yes, can you repeat the question, ma'am?

**[04:16:59.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
For the 2023, ang paliwanag niyo para sa confidential funds ay social, dahil gagamitin nito sa social economic delivery program. Tama ba?

**[04:17:08.620] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, as indicated in the document earlier.

**[04:17:12.590] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At

**[04:17:13.410] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sa mga certifications naman na isinumitin ninyo in response to the AOM,

**[04:17:22.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
sinabi dito na ginamit ang confidential funds para sa surveillance to ensure that no untoward incident will happen. Tama ba?

**[04:17:36.340] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, based on the document.

**[04:17:38.520] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
At para naman, sa sagot nyo sa AOM, pati sa NS, ang sinabi naman ninyo, gagamitin ng confidential funds para sa surveillance activity that would help you determine and identify areas kung saan i-roll out yung mga proyekto ninyo. Tama ba?

**[04:18:03.000] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
That's one of the justifications that we indicated. Yes,

**[04:18:08.300] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
which never appeared in the prior documents. Tama ba?

**[04:18:11.800] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[04:18:12.700] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So in short, nagbigay kayo ng apat na versyon, apat na rason para sa isang pondo. Tama ba?

**[04:18:22.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor, please.

**[04:18:25.160] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I was expecting something, Attorney Christine. Yes.

**[04:18:28.360] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
It's misleading, Your Honor. Apat na versyon and conclusion of fact.

**[04:18:37.110] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
If I may, Your Honor.

**[04:18:40.960] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll allow it, Atty. Christine. The witness is intelligent enough to be able to identify that indeed some answers were different from the previous ones they gave.

**[04:18:52.800] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
I'm just

**[04:18:53.020] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
not so sure

**[04:18:54.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
if it's four.

**[04:18:56.940] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just to set the record straight, Your Honor, I did not say four. I mentioned five.

**[04:19:05.800] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So, I don't know the number of versions you have but you do admit that several versions or explanations were given. For

**[04:19:13.100] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
the same expense.

**[04:19:14.980] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There were different justifications.

**[04:19:18.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Okay, different justifications for the same fund. For the same confidential fund. Tama ba?

**[04:19:25.780] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Can I clarify?

**[04:19:27.760] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Just say yes or no.

**[04:19:29.940] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
There were four explanations. There

**[04:19:33.860] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
were four explanations for the same fund.

**[04:19:35.790] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. Yes.

**[04:19:39.350] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
So in short, paiba, you will also agree with me, na kapag paiba-iba ang rason, maaaring

**[04:19:50.780] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
nagsisinungaling lang or talaga namang ito ay isa lamang scam. Your Honor, please.

**[04:19:59.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
You and I both know, Atty. May I have to sustain whatever basis for the objection, Atty. Christine? Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:20:07.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Move

**[04:20:07.280] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to strike

**[04:20:07.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
the scam and nagsisinungaling.

**[04:20:10.440] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
So stricken off the record.

**[04:20:12.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Last item, Your Honor.

**[04:20:14.120] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, proceed, Attorney May. Okay,

**[04:20:15.580] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, kanina sinabi mo na si Vice President mismo ang humingi ng confidential fund sa simula pa lang. Siya ang humingi ng 250 million mula sa DBM. Tama ba?

**[04:20:33.910] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[04:20:34.710] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Siya rin ang nag-decide kung anong amount, kung magkaanong amount ang inirequest. Tama ba? Ultimately, sa kanyang nanggaling ang desisyon. Tama ba?

**[04:20:42.370] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. At

**[04:20:43.330] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
pinirmahan niya rin ang approval para sa pag-release ng pondo. Tama ba?

**[04:20:50.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Through the disbursement vouchers. Tama ba?

**[04:20:53.160] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes.

**[04:20:54.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Pinirmahan niya rin ang mga liquidation reports at certification supporting the liquidation reports. Tama ba?

**[04:21:01.600] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes. In

**[04:21:03.200] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
short, you will agree with me This whole confidential funds matter, ang arkitekto at mastermind nito ay si Vice President Sara Duterte.

**[04:21:13.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Your Honor,

**[04:21:13.330] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
please.

**[04:21:15.420] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Objection.

**[04:21:16.460] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sustained.

**[04:21:17.780] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Move to

**[04:21:20.020] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
strike, Your Honor, the

**[04:21:21.380] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
statement.

**[04:21:22.160] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
May we request, Your Honor, that it remain on record. May

**[04:21:24.820] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I request you likewise to... Move

**[04:21:26.300] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
to strike, Your Honor. I will have to strike it off, counsel.

**[04:21:31.290] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
kindly replace it with words that are more acceptable such as that everything was approved by and with the consent of or with the full knowledge of, it's up to you. I don't want to put words in your mouth.

**[04:21:45.280] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Mr. Antonio, she was the architect. Yung confidential funds na to, objection, kung paano ito i-disperse at gagamitin, i-utilize, objection. Siya ang architect ng buong ito.

**[04:22:00.650] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I will have to sustain the objection again, counsel. Allow me. Mr. Antonio, lahat ng nangyayari at ginawa kaugnay ng confidential fund mula sa paghingi nito sa DBM, sa paggastos, kung paano ito ginastos, paano ito nilikwidate, kasabay na yung mga sagot na binigay kaugnay sa OEM, notice of suspension and notice of disallowance, lahat ito ay alam, nasa ilalim ng supervision, pinahintulutan at inotorisa. ng ikalawang Pangulo.

**[04:22:32.890] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Wait. Gusto mo

**[04:22:34.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
i-say nito? Can

**[04:22:35.830] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
you

**[04:22:36.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
repeat,

**[04:22:36.670] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Your Honor?

**[04:22:38.050] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lahat ng bagay kaugnay sa Confidential Fund mula sa pag-request, sa pag-release, sa pag-encash, sa pag-gastos, sa pag-liquidate, sa pag-sagot sa mga AOM, Notice of Suspension, at Notice of Disallowance, ay una, nalalaman ng ikalawang Pangulo. Pangalawa, Inotoriza niya, basis sa mga pirma niya sa iba't ibang dokumento. At pangatlo, ay nasa ilalim ng kanyang supervision bilang head of agency. Would that be an accurate statement or tell me if it's not?

**[04:23:15.250] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Based on my understanding, sir, and based on what I know, sir, yes, the Vice President knows about the confidential activities and how it is being implemented.

**[04:23:32.340] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
I'll proceed further. May ginawa ka ba na hindi alam o inauthorized ni Vice President Sara kaugnay sa confidential funds kasabay na yung pagsagot mo sa mga AOM, Notice of Suspension and Disallowance?

**[04:23:45.300] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
None, Your Honor.

**[04:23:46.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Lahat alam niya at inauthorized niya?

**[04:23:48.900] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:23:49.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Sa pagkakaalam mo, may ginawa ba si Gina o si Colonel Lachica? kaugnay ng confidential funds mula sa disbursement, mula sa withdrawal, disbursement, at liquidation na hindi nalalaman o inotorisa ng ikalawang Pangulo. If you know.

**[04:24:04.470] Lemuel G. Ortoño**  
As to Ms. Gina and Col. LaChica, Your Honor, I would have no personal knowledge on it.

**[04:24:10.750] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Okay.

**[04:24:12.150] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Any

**[04:24:12.630] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
final

**[04:24:13.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
questions, Atty. May?

**[04:24:15.350] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
That would be all

**[04:24:15.870] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
for your direction, Your Honor. Your Honor, please.

**[04:24:18.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Atty. Christine, rather.

**[04:24:21.450] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Before we release the witness and adjourn, Your Honor, there is a

**[04:24:28.310] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
consensus, Your Honor, that we will ask the court, the respondent would like to ask the court to remind the prosecution, Your Honor, not to use inappropriate words, Your Honor, like scam, mastermind, nagsisinungaling. This is the third time, Your Honor, that we have heard those words, specifically the word scam. This is a solemn proceeding. This is a court of law. This is a court of procedure and actually a court of decorum. And we are not supposed to make insinuations, accusations, or conclusions, Your Honor. So we request the court to kindly remind the prosecution.

**[04:25:09.270] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, I agree with counsel. Earlier, the court made an admonition and reminder to the counsel for the panel of prosecutors. but did not strike out those statements but subsequent similar statements made were stricken off from the record by the presiding officer. But it does seem that it's becoming a I would rather use the word habit than pattern for the panel of prosecutors to close their direct with such strong statements. So kindly, yes, what is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Cayetano?

**[04:25:49.870] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, Mr. Senate President, dear colleagues. I'd just like to take note that the Presiding Officer made the ruling.

**[04:26:03.570] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
We all know the intention and the duties of the prosecution. We admire your passion in trying to prove your allegations. But we're also all aware that the medium is the messenger. So, during the time of radio and even TV, you make that statement and then it is stricken off the record, it's forgotten.

**[04:26:32.870] Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano**  
There's no, if I can use the word, mind conditioning. And in fact, when I first became a senator in 2007, talagang hahanapin mo talaga yung records. That's why, even here, kapag ka may disagreements, and medyo nadala ng emotion, pinapa-strike off the record. At pagka sa labas ng Senate nangyari, naghahamunan ng, you say that here, para magsagutan tayo. So the problem nga with coming up with words especially, and this is for both sides and even for the Senate, senator-judges, when we use certain words that can be sa Tagalog, bansag, binansagan mo na, binansagan mo na na scam or scammer, binansagan mo na na. na nagnakaw, etc. So, personally, I don't mind if you use words that is already in your pleadings or in your articles of impeachment. But of course, it still should come from the witness unless you can frame it in a way that it's not only the dignity of the court. I'm just saying, let's all be aware that when we say it, even if we say withdrawn or even, both sides, kahit sabihin mong withdrawn na to, kahit sabihin mong nice try, nice try, etc. We know that that's for the cameras, not just for the court. Kaming 24, whether we watch it here, we watch it in our cellphone, we watch it inside, kami mag-de-decide. But we all know we're also trying to convince you, not we. The prosecution and defense is trying to convince the public that either the vice president or her office or whoever is guilty or innocent. Yun lang, let's be circumspect without pointing fingers to anyone, both sides. Dahil nga kapag ka may certain word na may not only negative but may emotional attachment, magbabiral na yan. And it will really affect the integrity not only of the court but of the decision sa huli. Diba? So, I just like to agree with you and emphasize na, you know, in the future if you say that nagkamali, Let's not kid each other. Kahit kaming mga senator-judges, nagkakamali din kami. Lalo pag nag-i-interview na or nagkaharap na yung vloggers or yung traditional media. But once masabi mo, it takes a life of its own. Diba? Those words. So we have to really be more circumspect in choosing our words. I

**[04:29:06.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
will allow Attorney May to comment before we proceed with other administrative matters. Yes, Attorney May?

**[04:29:10.920] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Well, Your Honor, we apologize if

**[04:29:14.340] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Sometimes we get carried away by our zeal and our passion, Your Honor. But we at the prosecution, we just want to call a spade a spade.

**[04:29:23.460] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Within limits, you may.

**[04:29:25.420] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Yes, Your Honor. But henceforth, to borrow the words of my colleague, Your Honor, we will try to behave.

**[04:29:31.720] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
That will be part of the chair's ruling as well. However, since we're ending at 2.30, Attorney Christine, your cross will proceed tomorrow?

**[04:29:38.900] Atty. Kristine R. Ferrer**  
Yes, Your Honor.

**[04:29:40.010] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
and redirect and recross as well. But with the permission of the counsel for the parties, the chair will begin the proceedings tomorrow with its ruling in regard to the August 12th manifestation of Attorney Sheila. So we will begin tomorrow with Attorney Ligutan giving him his five minutes of explanation or not longer than that. The ruling, and then we'll proceed with your cross, Attorney Christine, and then your redirect and recross, if any, by Attorney May and Attorney Christine, respectively. In the meantime, before we adjourn, for the information of Senator-Judges, according to the Senate President, we shall convene session at 3 p.m.

**[04:30:18.700] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
The Court acknowledges the report of the Clerk of Court with respect to the comparison of the acknowledgement receipts and directs the Clerk of Court. to furnish a copy of its findings which the Presiding Officer initially mentioned last week to the Council for the Parties as well as the Senator-Judges. So ordered. In relation to the condition of Edward Fajarda, I am in receipt of a report by Dr. Sison, the Bureau Director of the Medical and Dental Bureau of the Senate, confirming the condition of Mr. Eduardo Fajarda that he is recommended to be to have bed rest or to rest for two weeks which began last August 20 and which shall end on August on rather September 3. Chair therefore instructs the Clerk of Court to issue the corresponding subpoena in the subsequent trial date on September 7.

**[04:31:28.570] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
2026 at 10 a.m. The court would also like to note and point out the manifestation yesterday of Attorney Sheila on the five-day notice rule. Let me check the TSN just to make sure. The five-day notice rule applies to witnesses not mentioned in the pretrial order. In regard to witnesses mentioned in the pretrial order, it will not apply, although as the chair already stated yesterday, You still have enough time, Attorney Sheila, because I think you will be able to cross Colonel, who's the first, would you know, Attorney May, who's the first witness, if ever, that you will call a Colonel?

**[04:32:06.540] Atty. Mae Sancho Divinagracia**  
Colonel Boransing, Your Honor.

**[04:32:08.360] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
If at all, the cross-examination of Colonel Boransing will happen on a Monday, so you still have more than enough time to prepare for your cross of the good Colonel.

**[04:32:22.030] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Then Tuesday, then more than enough time. Yes, Attorney Sheila.

**[04:32:25.910] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Good afternoon, Your Honor. Good afternoon,

**[04:32:27.670] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
ma'am.

**[04:32:28.970] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor, I would just like to return to the Presiding Officer's statement on the application of the five-day ruling or schedule for the disclosure of the witness. If I may just be clarified, because as far as I recall, this five-day ruling was a product of The proposal and counterproposal between the prosecution defense during the pre-trial stage. In fact, when the prosecution submitted its proposal, its written proposal, the initial proposal by the prosecution was only for a three-day prior period to disclose the witnesses, but we counterproposed that parties be allowed at least five days so that each party may be given ample time to prepare for the examination of the witnesses. And so I'm partly confused, Your Honor, as to the statement that the five-day rule only applies as to the witnesses who were not disclosed in the pretrial order. When

**[04:33:34.990] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
we checked, counsel, that was the ruling on the chair, in fact, twice, in fact. However, having said that, this situation is unique, as pointed out by the lead prosecutor yesterday. because their intended witness is unavailable because of an ailment and that they had to fill in with a new witness who is in the pretrial order. And given the amount of time being spent on the witnesses and the interjection of judges, in any case, you will still have your five days. In fact, more than five days, Attorney Sheila, for this witness. And the presiding officer will be conscious of the fact that as much as possible, The witnesses for the following week should be announced by the lead prosecutor on a Wednesday the week before to afford ample time for both sides to prepare even when your time comes, attorney Sheila, to

**[04:34:30.430] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
present your evidence. I understand, Your Honor, but if I may just be allowed also to explain further my concern. My concern is that if this is the new rule moving forward that It would seem to me that there would be no more period or prior period to be observed in relation to the disclosure of witnesses for the following days or hearing dates, then that would be a concern not only for the defense but also for the prosecution when the time comes for the defense to present its witnesses.

**[04:35:03.690] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
And also, I recall that at the start of this trial, the court made it clear that as the presiding officer had said the parties must disclose their intended witnesses for the next week at the end of the hearing schedule for the week prior and so even if I do not want to dispute what the Presiding Officer had said regarding the TSN or the records about this ruling, but just so parties are guided, may we now ask if the five-day prior rule will still govern the proceeding moving forward? As a

**[04:35:50.140] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
rule,

**[04:35:50.420] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
subsequent witnesses for the following week should be announced in open court. The Wednesday of the previous week. So kung sino man po yung mga testigo, sa darating na linggo, lunes hanggang martes, miyerkules, dapat sabihin na sa huling araw ng paglilitis ng linggo bago yung susunod na linggo. Maliba na lang, ulitin ko, kapag may pagkakataon tulad ngayon na medyo kakaiba naman, parang hindi masayang yung oras at panahon ng husgado, kakaintay sa testigong hindi maganda ang karamdaman. So as a rule, counsel, yes, and we will make sure to afford time. And if you cannot, if you need more time, the court will be lenient in order to provide adequate time to prepare in fairness for both parties, not only the counsel for respondent.

**[04:36:36.200] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor,

**[04:36:36.780] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
please

**[04:36:37.000] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
submit with that clarification. Thank

**[04:36:38.540] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
you. Your Honor, just

**[04:36:40.380] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
for purposes of clarity,

**[04:36:42.240] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Your Honor.

**[04:36:42.900] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
Yes, Your Honor. Because

**[04:36:44.180] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
we acknowledge that we are still adopting and maintaining the certain number of days required. before the hearing for the succeeding week. But I understand the concern of Attorney Sheila from five days. Perhaps we can place it on record to change the five-day notice rule to four-day notice rule. That is to be consistent with Wednesday, Your Honor, as the submission of the witnesses for the succeeding week.

**[04:37:08.110] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
It's the same, counsel. Wednesday, Monday would be the fifth day, so that's still five days. It's not necessarily five days prior. Let's stick to what was originally agreed and by way of exception, as the need arises, we will cross the bridge when we get there and still ensure that both parties will be given adequate time and will be given fair shake to

**[04:37:31.280] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
prepare for

**[04:37:32.040] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
the witness.

**[04:37:32.580] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Thank you, Your Honor. Just

**[04:37:32.620] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
one more point, Your Honor. Yes, Attorney Sheila. Just to

**[04:37:34.860] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
avoid any ambiguity, may we also request a disclosure be made via email, Your Honor. so that the disclosure be received by the other party. Via

**[04:37:44.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
email before the trial on Wednesday? Because on a Wednesday, we'll hear it anyway.

**[04:37:50.020] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We're okay at the end of the trial day on Wednesday. But

**[04:37:53.560] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
we'll hear it anyway in open court.

**[04:37:54.920] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
Well, whether they do it in the morning or if they choose to do it after the hearing on Wednesday. And one

**[04:38:01.860] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
more thing, Honorable Luistro, Chair would like to remind the prosecution to kindly... Submit the proposed circumstances or stipulation, facts for stipulation and documents for stipulation at least a day before the witness is set to be presented so that the counsel-correspondent will have ample time to review, study it, and hopefully shorten the proceedings by stipulating to it. Same ruling applies to the counsel-correspondents when their time comes to present their evidence in chief.

**[04:38:33.990] Atty. Sheila C. Sison**  
We know the instructions, Your Honor.

**[04:38:40.250] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
What is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Zubiri?

**[04:38:43.230] Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri**  
Yes, thank you very much, Mr. President. Before we adjourn today's session, I'd just like to ask, broad strokes, the timelines moving forward for the impeachment proceedings because we're also entering the budget season. As a matter of fact, Monday to Wednesday,

**[04:39:04.190] Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri**  
Well, ako kasi majority leader po tayo, so I'm last to leave. So 9 to 8, nandito po ako, kasama na ibang mga kasamahan ko dito. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is hearing of our committees. And we have only one day to have our committee hearings. And so, we just like to be guided accordingly. Once the budget starts being discussed, all departments will be coming here. Thursday, Friday, Saturday siguro, abo tayo ng Saturday. So wala nang pahinga yung mga staff natin. I just want to know from the presiding officer, what is the plan? Are we going to take this all the way up to December? Because Burmans are fast approaching. I think in two weeks time, Jose Marichan will be singing again in all the malls. Kidding aside, we just need to be guided accordingly for our legislative calendar as well, Mr. President. Just broad strokes, maybe from the prosecution, do we know, are we going to finish this before the December break? Because we want to know if we're going to continue all the way till February on this topic so that in the legislative calendar, we can also make adjustments. We have a legislative calendar that we approve both houses. So at least we... uh also if there's an impeachment calendar then we can be guided accordingly because the chairman of the committee on finance is heavily stressed out uh every time i see him he doesn't know how we're going to have the hearings all together mr president mr presiding officer just some queries uh administrative queries so that we can move forward and make the both the impeachment calendar and the legislative calendar work for the for these two proceedings which is basically the impeachment and legislations. To

**[04:40:55.090] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
respond to Senator Judge Zubiri in broad strokes, the Presiding Officer is optimistic and hopeful that we will complete these proceedings before the end of the year. Second, we will be having a more specific schedule for the impeachment once our Chair of the Committee on Finance comes up with his calendar for the deliberation on the budget. Given that that is the most important piece of legislation that the Senate as a legislative body is supposed to pass, we have to allocate enough time for that to ensure its passage before the end of the year, giving due consideration to the bicameral conference committee as well as inputs coming from the House of Representatives through the GAB. So once that comes out, Senator-Judge Zubiri, we can... roughly give you a picture and idea with respect to the timeline and the schedule and if we will shift and if we will indeed shift how and when. Also for the information of the parties. There be no other matters to take up and discuss. Again tomorrow we shall have your first the cross-examination of Mr. Ortonio but before that The comment of Attorney Ligutan, the ruling of the chair with respect to the August 12th manifestation of Attorney Sheila, and then redirect, recross, and intervention of the senator-judges in relation to Mr. Ortonio, and if we still have enough time for the prosecution's next witness. There'll be no other points to take up. Trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, August 26th at 10

**[04:42:36.880] Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero**  
a.m.