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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: The Senate President, the Presiding Officer,

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: and Senator-Judges of the Impeachment Court.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sergeant at Arms is directed to make a proclamation.

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Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The Impeachment Trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator Judge Raffy Tulfo.

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Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Almighty Father, as we enter The seventh week of the impeachment trial guide everyone here. The senator-judges, the presiding officer, the prosecution and defense counsels, the witnesses, and the Filipino people so that we remember why we are conducting these proceedings. Help us to make the most of the Time and resources of our people by making the impeachment trial an instrument that would restore the people's trust in their public officials. Finally, send our most holy spirit upon us so that we are rendered a just judgment over this case. May we embody what Jesus said that for the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Lord, let our words and actions here reflect the public servants that we should be. All these we pray in your mighty name. Amen.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: senator-judge, Marcoleta, senator-judge, Marcos, senator-judge, Padilla, senator-judge, Pangilinan, senator-judge, Soto III, senator-judge, Tulfo Erwin, senator-judge, Tulfo Rafi, senator-judge, Villanueva, senator-judge, Villar Camil, senator-judge, Villar Marc, senator-judge, Zubiri, the presiding officer, senator-judge, Escudero, senate president, senator-judge, Gatchalian.

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Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: 13 senator-judges present, the chair declares the presence of a quorum. In accordance with the rules of procedure on impeachment trials, the Chair now recognizes the duly elected presiding officer to preside over the proceedings of the impeachment court.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. If there are no objections, we shall dispense with the reading of the August 12, 2026 Journal of the Senate sitting as an impeachment court and shall consider the same as approved.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is directed to kindly call the case before the impeachment court.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case number 004-2026. In the

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: matter of impeachment trial, Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances of the parties.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Same appearance for the prosecution, Your Honor. We are ready. Thank

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Honorable Chua.

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Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: Same appearance for the respondent accused, Your Honor. Good morning.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Atty. Powa.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Call your witness, Honorable Chua.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Your Honor, before we call our next witness, Your Honor.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: May we respectfully ask the Honorable Court to recognize Attorney Ligutan, counsel for the prosecution because we understand that his name was alluded to by the defense in the last hearing, Your Honor. May he be given the opportunity to make a brief manifestation or comment. At

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the proper time we will, Honorable Attorney Ligutan. At the

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: proper time we will. The Chair does not intend to rule yet on that matter at this time. But before the Chair does so, Attorney Ligutan will be heard. I assure you.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: In that case, Your Honor, may we request the public prosecutor, Congressman Lordan Suwan, be recognized by the Chair for the presentation of our next witness.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Suwan is recognized.

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Atty. Michael Wesley Poa: Your Honor, on the part of the defense, Your Honor, may we also request that Attorney Lyndon Bacuel be recognized for

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: this witness. Attorney Lyndon, you are recognized, sir, as far as this witness is concerned.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Good morning, Your Honor. Lyndon Bacuel, appearing for respondent accused.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Suwan is recognized.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Thank you, Your Honor.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: May it please the Honorable Impeachment Court. The prosecution calls Ms. Marivic M. Pareja.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court, through the Sergeant at Arms, is directed to kindly situate Ms. Marivic Pareja to the witness stand.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly place the witness under oath, Clerk of Court.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Please raise your right hand. You, Marivic M. Pareja, do swear... that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Cyrus Zimmerman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

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Marivic M. Pareja: Yes, sir.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly be seated.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Marivic. Atty. Soan, you

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: are recognized to make your offer.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honors, before we proceed with the offer of testimony, we respectfully manifest that we are distributing copies to all the senator-judges. of our offer of testimony. And we also request that this be flashed on the screen for the convenience of the senators and the viewing public.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honor, we only have four offers for the testimony of Witness Pareja, Your Honor.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honor, the testimony of Witness Marivic M. Pareja is being offered to prove the following. Number one, she has been an employee of the House of Representatives for the past 27 years. and has for the last eight years up to the present served as the service director of the Legislative Archives and Museum Management Service or Archives of the House of Representatives. Number two,

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: the Archives is the official repository of all records of the House of Representatives including those that were transmitted to it by the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability or CGGPA. in connection with the committee's hearings conducted from September 18, 2024 to December 9, 2024 and is responsible for the storage, preservation, retrieval, and release of certified true copies of such records and issuance of certifications.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Number three, the identity of the following documents that were received by the Archives for Storage and Custody. as transmitted by the Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability relative to its September 18, 2024 to December 9, 2024 committee hearings.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honor, may we be allowed to flash on the screen these documents as I am enumerating them?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before you proceed, counsel,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: let

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: me be the one to do it. Would Attorney Lyndon be willing to stipulate? Insofar as the current position of the witness in the house is concerned relative to offers 1 and 2 of the council.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor, stipulated.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Second, counsel, the Honorable Suwan, you will only be presenting documents enumerated in your offer, namely P. Roman numeral number 1-26A up to P.R.1-26L1.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May I ask,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: insofar as your pre-marked documents P.R.1-3 up

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to P.R.1-25I-1, these were not part of the documents you requested this Court to take judicial notice of? which we are more than willing to do because they're of the same nature. And since you're not presenting it to this witness, would you want to make the corresponding motion for us to take judicial notice of those documents? Again, to reiterate, P-RN 1-3 up to P-RN 1-25-I-1.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mostly, these are documents pertaining to documents submitted to the House. pertaining to the ombudsman case and the counter affidavits of some of the respondents in that case? Yes, Your Honor. Or you'd have no intention of presenting those documents anymore?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: We do, Your Honor, and judicial notice would be much appreciated.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly ask for it because it is not part of those that we can give judicial notice of in a mandatory manner. So you are asking for judicial notice for the documents I mentioned?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Yes, Your Honor, the prosecution moves.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Any objection on the part of the respondent? Again, just as to the existence of these documents, as to the fact that they were submitted before the House of Representatives, not as to the truth or relevance of these documents to these proceedings.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Stipulated, Your Honor. We have no objection as regards the motion to take judicial notice of these documents.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Court therefore makes an order that the documents inclusive from P-RN1-3 to P-RN1-25I-1 are all taken judicial notice of. Copies are therefore directed to be furnished to all the senator-judges for their information and reference. Again, as to the fact that these are part of the official records of the House, duly submitted to them, and that

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: and that they form part of the records forming the House deliberations and hearings. Now, next, Honorable Suwan, insofar as these documents you presented are concerned, again, these are all submissions to the House, correct?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May I hear from Counsel for Respondent, Atty. Linden? Are you willing to stipulate as to these documents that they intend to present through the witness, Atty. Pareja? Again, only as to the fact that they were submitted to the House, part of the official records of the House, and that in the performance of her regular duties that these are within her custody, and that she performed her duties in the regular course of events.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: We stipulate, Your Honor, as regards the transmittal of these documents to the Department of the Witness, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And that she is in possession and custody of these documents?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: as part of the official records of the hearings of the House.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honorable Suwan, since it has been stipulated by the Council, would there be anything else? Again, just for clarity, Atty. Linden, we are referring to previously

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: marked documents P-R1-26-A up to P-R1-26-L-1. A total of 11 documents, I think you've been furnished with a copy?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: No, Your Honor. We have not... Kindly

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: furnish opposing counsel with a copy.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And it's also being flashed on the screen, counsel.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: If I may, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, Honorable Suwan?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: For the record, may we be allowed to identify these documents that defense has agreed to stipulate upon?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you're referring to P-R1-3 up to... P-R1-25-I-1?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: No, Your Honor. We are referring to P-R1-26-20. Ah,

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: the

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: ones on

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: the

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: screen. Yes, Your Honor. For the viewing public and for the record.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, you may read the documents. All 11 of them. For the information of the counsel as well and the senator-judges while the counsel is going over it. You may proceed,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Honorable Swan.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Thank you, Your Honor. So the first letter The first document is the letter of Vice President Sara Z. Duterte to Honorable Joel Chua, Chairperson of the CGGPA, dated September 23, 2024, where the Vice President informed the committee that she will not attend the deliberations of the CGGPA and requested to terminate the inquiry. The second document is the letter of Attorney Zuleika T. Lopez, Undersecretary and Chief of Staff, OVP. to Honorable Joel R. Chua, Chairperson, CGGPA, dated October 7, 2024, where Attorney Zuleika Lopez responded to the show-cause order issued by the CGGPA to explain her failure to attend or respond to the invitations of the Committee. Number 3, the letter of Edward D. Fajarda to Honorable Joel Chua, Chairperson of the CGGPA, dated October 7, 2024, where Edward Fajarda responded to the show cause order issued by the CGGPA to explain his failure to attend or respond to the invitations of the committee. Number 4, Letter of Attorney Rosaline Sanchez, Director, Administrative and Financial Services Office, OVP to Honorable Joel Chua, Chairperson of the CGGPA dated October 7, 2024. where OVP Director Rosaline Sanchez responded to the show-cause order issued by the CGGPA to explain her failure to attend or respond to the invitations of the committee. Your Honor, we also manifest that these documents have been previously marked and the current one has been marked as P-R1-26-D as shown on the screen, Your Honor, as well as the previous documents, which were already previously marked.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: So the fifth document is the letter of Lemuel G. Ortonio, Assistant Secretary, OVP, to Honorable Joel Archua, Chairperson, CGGPA, dated October 7, 2024, where OVP ASEC Lemuel Ortonio responded to the show-cause order issued by the CGGPA to explain his failure to attend or respond. to the invitations of the committee. This was also previously marked as P-R1-26-E, sixth document. The position paper of Attorney Lopez et al. dated November 5, 2024, where Attorney Lopez, Ms. Acosta, spouses Edward and Sunshine Fajarda et al. refused to attend the CGGPA hearings and requested for termination of the inquiry by the CGGPA. This was previously marked, Your Honor, as P-R1-26-F. Seventh document, the position paper of OVP employees dated November 5, 2024, where the OVP employees refused to attend the CGGPA hearings and requested for termination of the inquiry by the CGGPA. This was previously marked as P-R1

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: 26-G. Eighth document, the letter of Gina Acosta, Sunshine Shari Fajarda, and Edward Fajarda to Honorable Joel Chua, chairperson of CGGPA, dated November 12, 2024, where Gina Acosta and spouses Edward and Sunshine Fajarda responded to the contempt order and arrest order. for their failure to attend the CGGPA hearing and this was previously marked as P-R1-26-H. Ninth, letter of Attorney Zuleika T. Lopez under Secretary and Chief of Staff, OVP, to Honorable Joel Chua, Chairperson, CGGPA, dated November 24, 2024, where Attorney Zuleika Lopez attempted to excuse her appearance in the CGGPA hearing, and this was previously marked as P-R1-26-I. Number 10, letter of Gamaliel A. Cordoba, Chairperson, Commission on Audit, with subject, Compliance with Sapina Duchesnecum, dated August 16, 2024, addressed to Honorable Sal Dico, Chairperson, Committee on Appropriations, dated August 21, 2024 where COA informed the Committee on Appropriations of the COA's compliance with the Sapina-Duches-Tecum for OVP and DepEd documents. This was marked as P-R1-26-K-1.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: And

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: last, the letter of Attorney Zuleika Lopez under Secretary and Chief of Staff, OVP. to Honorable Gamaliel Cordova, Chairperson, COA, dated August 21, 2024, where Attorney Zuleika Lopez told the COA not to comply with the subpoena by the Committee on Appropriations and refused submission of the OVP and DPED documents. This was previously marked as P-R1-26-L-1. That is it, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment, Attorney Linden?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we confirm our stipulation as to the documents mentioned by the prosecution that these documents are transmitted to the archives and the archives are the custodian of these documents, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Having so stipulated, counsel, any other thing? Given that these are your four offers, I don't believe there is a need to present this witness before the court.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honor, there is still the matter of that certification that the witness issued as to the identity of these documents, the identity and faithful reproduction of these documents. If counsel will agree to stipulate, then that would be welcomed.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: May we show the certification on the screen, Your Honor?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not so much the certification, but I guess... Without prejudice to proof being presented by counsel for the respondents that these are not faithful reproductions of the original on file, then we can presume regularity. Correct, counsel? We are amenable to that proposition, Your Honor. We can presume regularity, Honorable Suwan. Unless proof later on during cross at any stage of the trial is presented regarding the inaccuracy of these documents, we can already... Counsel is willing to stipulate. Thereby dispensing again with this witness.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Who's speaking? Yes, Honorable Son.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: If Council is willing to stipulate as to the certification, then for the record, may we have the certification marked as P-R1-26.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It has already been marked previously. It's been

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: marked, yes.

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Just

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: for the record.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. So, can we dispense with this witness, Honorable Son?

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Rep. Lordan G. Suan: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ms. Pareja, you are excused. Kindly send our regards to Cesar over there.

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Marivic M. Pareja: Thank

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Marivic M. Pareja: you, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And we thank you for your time and for coming over. Thank you for your patience as well.

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Marivic M. Pareja: Thank you, sir.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Call

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your next witness, the Honorable Sua. If you're going to be the one to stand up, call your next witness, Honorable Chua.

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Rep. Joel R. Chua: Your Honor, may we request Attorney Ligutan, counsel for the prosecution, to be recognized for the presentation of our next witness, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ligutan is recognized for the presentation of the prosecutor's next witness. Attorney Ligutan, you may proceed when you're ready.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, we were expecting to present the witness at a bit later time.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: May move for a quick recess. Two minutes, Your Honor, please.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Brief

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: recess is declared.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is directed to kindly escort and situate Ms. Gina Acosta to the witness stand for her testimony.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly place the witness under oath, Atty. Bantog.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Please raise your right hand, ma'am.

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Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: You, Gina F. Acosta, do swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now pending between the Philippines and Vice President Cyrus Girmayman Duterte shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Miss Gina, and also for the information of the Council for the Parties, we have on hand a nurse from the Senate and on call the doctors of the Senate. given that in the last appearance of Ms. Gina before the House, I believe, medyo tumaas po yung presyon ninyo. So we're just exercising some precautions with respect to this, but please try to be relaxed.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ligutan, your witness.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Thank

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you so

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: much, Your Honor, please.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Mr. Presiding Officer, our senator-judges,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: The prosecution presents the first hostile or hostile witness in this impeachment trial. The testimony of the first, we'll pronounce it as hostile, we're accustomed to hostile.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ang

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: testigo, testimonya ng kauna-unahang hostile witness sa impeachment trial na ito is

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: being presented to prove Ang mga sumusunod, layo ng prosecution na ipresenta o iharap si Gina Acosta bilang isang hostile witness. Ibig sabihin hindi po siya testigo pabor sa prosecution.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pangalawa, si Ms. Acosta ay nanunungkulan ngayon bilang Vice Presidential Staff Officer VI sa Office of the Vice President. Pangatlo, Siya ay nagsilbing Special Disbursing Officer or SDO ng Office of the Vice President noong taong 2022 at 2023.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pangapat, siya rin ang nagsilbing SDO para sa Confidential Funds noong the Mayor Sara Duterte sa Davao City mula taong 2019. hanggang 2022. Panglima, siya ang naging staff member sa Davao City Administrator's Office sa pagitan ng mga taong 2016 at 2022 at ng Davao City Budget Office sa panunungkulan noon ni Mayor Sara Zimmerman Duterte. Panganim, sa last quarter o huling tatlong buwan, ng 2022, ginastos ng OVP or Office of the Vice Presidents ang halagang 125 million pesos na confidential funds sa loob lamang ng labing isang araw sa ilalim at pamamahala at pangangasiwa ng Vice Presidente ng walang liquidation ng hindi kumpleto o walang sapat na dokumento na nagpapatunay sa pagbabayad. Pangpito. Rather, pangwalo. Inatasa ng Vice Presidente ang witness na i-encash ang kabuuhang halaga na 500 million pesos or kalahating bilyon noong ikadalawampu ng Disyembre 2022, ikaanim ng Prebrero, ikadalawamputlima ng Abril, at ikalabingapat ng Hulyo 2023.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: skip number seven, sorry. Sa tatlong taon, sorry, sa tatlong three-quarters ng 2023, ginastos ng OVP. Ang halagang 375 million na confidential funds sa ilalim ng pamamahala at pangangasiwa ng vice-presidente ng walang liquidation, ng hindi, wastong liquidation rather, ng hindi kompleto o walang sapat na mga dokumento na nagpapatunay sa pagbabayan. Let's go to number nine.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ang lahat ng confidential funds na inilaan sa OVP ay nawithdraw in cold cash na nagkakahalagang kalahating bilyong piso noong December 20, 2022, February 6, April 25, at July 14, 2023. Pang-sampo, inutusan ni VP Sara na ibigay ang kabuuhang Half a billion pesos, 500 million pesos in cold cash sa security officer ng OVP na si Colonel La Chica na hindi isang accountable officer, isang paglabag sa batas sa Joint Circular 2015-01. Panglabing isa. Ang ginagawang disbursements ng confidential funds sa ilalim ng Office of the Vice President. Ang ginawang disbursements ay maraming bahid o namumutakti sa pagsuway at paglabag sa Joint Circular 2015-01. Dabing dalawa, bigo ang respondent, Vice President, na maliquidate ang kabuuhang halaga. na half a billion pesos na pera ng bayan, 500 million pesos alinsunod sa demand or kahingian ng Joint Circular Act 2015-01. Panglabing tatlo,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: dahil dito maituturing na ginastos ng Vice Presidente sa pansariling gamit at kapakinabangan

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ang half a billion pesos na pera ng bayan na confidential funds ng Office of the Vice President. Lastly, Your Honor, please, tutukuyin ng witness ang mga dokumentong may kaugnayan sa mga aligasyong nakasaan sa articles of impeachment.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That's for the offer.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Comment, Atty. Bacuel?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, for purposes number 2 and 3, we are willing to stipulate We note that for purpose 3, this was already part of the admissions of the parties in the pre-trial order.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: And it's contained in part 1A, item 2.8 of the pre-trial order, Your Honor. For purpose number 4 and 5, as regards the confidential funds in Davao City and the position of the witness as STO of Davao City, We would like to object on the ground of irrelevance, Your Honor, considering that for the simple reason that the confidential funds in Davao City are not part of the allegations in the articles of impeachment. So there's really no fact in issue to be proved by the testimony of the witness, Your Honor. And for all the other purposes, Your Honor, these are subject to cross-examination.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What does Attorney Ligutan say with respect to counsel's stipulation to your second and third offer? The stipulation

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: is well taken, Your Honor, please. So, therefore, it is established na si Ms. Acosta ay ngayon nanunungkulan bilang Vice Presidential Staff, Offer 6, saka nagsilbi siyang Special Dispersing Officer noong taong 2022 saka 2023. However, Your Honor, please, yung punto na walang relevance yung naging pagsisilbi as SDO para sa confidential funds mula 2019 saka 2022 saka I think union, di ba? Your Honor, please, we beg to disagree. It is very much relevant, very much relevant in today's proceedings considering, Your Honor, please, that it is her experience as the SDO of Davao City. in those inclusive years that led the Vice President to also bring her to the office of the Vice President and do and do the things they did in Davao City this time with the money of the office of the Vice President. That is very much relevant to the prosecution's case, Your Honor, please.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: May I respond, Your Honor?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, before the Presiding Officer makes a ruling, Counsel.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor. The rebuttal presented by the prosecution is wrong considering that there's no such allegation in the articles of impeachment, Your Honor. Moreover, Your Honor, it is clear in the ruling of the Supreme Court in Duterte v. House of Representatives that the basis of any charge must be for acts committed.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: In relation to the impeachable office and within the term of the impeachable officer, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, can I make a quick rebuttal to the last point?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: need, counsel. The presiding officer will make a ruling. The court will allow it given that it is for the purpose of establishing pattern and or behavior on the part of the witness. But to be clear, that whatever she says with respect to acts committed by her in relation to the vice president now while she was a mayor in Davao City is not part. of this impeachment trial and will not in any way add to the charges that has been filed and are pending before this court under the four articles of impeachment as previously ruled by the chair in previous requests for subpoena, for example. However, may I ask counsel further to abbreviate the proceedings? Attorney Bacal. Are you willing to stipulate that the witness is a hostile witness and therefore counsel may ask leading questions already instead of qualifying the witness as a hostile witness?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: No, Your Honor. The prosecution must first qualify the witness as hostile, Your Honor. Then

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: qualify her, Atty. Ligutan. We will. We shall. Qualify her. You may proceed when you're ready.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Madam Witness, Mayong Buntag.

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Gina F. Acosta: Mayong Buntag, Saab.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, Your Honor, pwede bang magpaduulgamay sa ating grupo? Can you draw closer to the microphone?

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Gina F. Acosta: Okay, okay. Salamat po.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: How are you, Madam Witness?

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Gina F. Acosta: Okay, okay, Jutay.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, okay, Jutay. Ibig sabihin, I'm a bit fine. Madam Witness, natay tubig. We have water.

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Gina F. Acosta: Excuse me, sir.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Opo.

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Gina F. Acosta: Sir, pwede diniligbog na natin rin. Okay.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, ingon ng witness, sabi po ng witness, puwede bang hindi po malamig yung tubig? Um,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the, uh, OSAA is directed to kindly give her... Ma'am Gina, you prefer warm water? Hindi naman daw po malamig yan, pero baka dahil sir ko nalang lumamig.

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Gina F. Acosta: Ano lang po, sir, yung kung merong maligam-gam,

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: maligam-gam na lang po. Bakit bigyan na lang po ng maligam-gam?

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Gina F. Acosta: Salamat po.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You're welcome, ma'am. You may proceed, Atty. Ligutan. Salamat, ma'am.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Why are you here today, if you know?

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Gina F. Acosta: Na ako diri tungod sa akong subpoena.

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Gina F. Acosta: Nagipatawag ko diri sa Senado, Pitsa, August.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With your permission, Atty. Ligutan, kung papahintulutan niyo po, Ms. Gina, pwede po gamitin po ninyo para mas maunawaan ang

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: mas nakararami, Ingles o Pilipino sa pagsagot?

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Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, pwede po haluan ng Bisaya, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sige po, basta matranslate ni Atty. Legutan without any objection from the respondent yung ibang mga kataga o salita. Your Honor, may

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: we request an interpreter from this honorable court if this honorable court would allow? so that the defense would be able to easily understand the statements of the

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness. We have a senator-judge who can interpret but I doubt if I can do that or will do that. Okay.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, Your Honor, I have a proposition. Ma'am Acosta, alala ko when you testified before the Committee on Good Government sa House of Representatives, ma'am, we spoke in Tagalog then sinigitan natin ng Our great Bisaya language. Pero po, para po mas mabilis, kung po pwede po, let's try as much as we could po to speak Tagalog. Kung po pwede lang ha. And then, if you really have to speak Bisaya, then of course, hindi po pinagbabawal yan. We should be proud of it. Pero kung po pwede po, Tagalog po tayo.

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Gina F. Acosta: I-try po na po, sir. I will try my best po.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Let's try our best po, madam.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sige, ma'am. While we're looking for a court-appointed or selected translator to get an official translation, hanggang kaya, ma'am. Pero kung hindi po, kung hindi po kayang gamitin ang ingles o wikang Pilipino, gamitin niyo po ang Bisaya o Cebuano. Subukan po naming unawain at interpret. Alright. You

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may proceed, Attorney Legudan.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Salamat. Ma'am, sinabi mo, andito ka kasi nga pinasabbi na ka. Pinasabbi na ng impeachment court, di ba po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes po.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, na-mention din, na nasabi rin na ikaw ay isang special disbursing officer, hindi lang sa Davao City, pati na rin. So, office of the Vice President. Yung tanong now is, what funds?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Anong klaseng pondo po yung didi-disperse nyo bilang isang special disbursing officer po?

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Gina F. Acosta: Confidential funds po, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Confidential funds. So, na-mention mo yung confidential funds. Now, sinabi mo, ma'am, na ikaw ay andito. Kasi nga, napasabpi na ka. Ma'am, yung tanong ma'am is, ito po ba ang unang pagkakataon na kayo ay napasabpi na para tumistigo?

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Gina F. Acosta: This is my second time. Pangalawang time na po ito, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: And then, pag sinabi niyo pong pangalawang time, ma'am, kailan yun? Kailan yung unang pagkakataon?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yung pong sa House of Representatives, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, House of Representatives. Maalala nyo yung PETSA, Ma'am? Kailan kayo nag-appear before the House of Representatives?

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Gina F. Acosta: November, November 2025.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Taon po is?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Anong taon?

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Gina F. Acosta: No, 2025.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi po 2024?

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Gina F. Acosta: 2020.

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Gina F. Acosta: Sandali lang sir ha. Sige,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sige. Anyways ma'am, basta sinasabi niyo po, secondary na po yung taon because it's on record naman. Pero nasabi niyo, ito po yung pangalawang pagkakataon na kayo ay naimbitahan po na tumistigo. kasi po may sabi na. Now, yung tanong ma'am is, this is preliminary question, ikaw ba ay nakatanggap na ng isang reklamong kriminal or administratiba na may pagkakaugnay sa paggamit ng confidential funds?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pleading, Your Honor. Exactly, I just said preliminary, Your Honor. Preliminary, counsel,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: witness may answer?

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Gina F. Acosta: Wala, Your Honor. Aha.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So, sinasabi mo, Ma'am, na wala pa kayong natatanggap na reklamo. Yun po yung sagot nyo, diba? Ma'am, ipinapakita ko ngayon, Ma'am, yung isang counter-epidemic.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay? Your Honor, I move that the Prosecution Council, Attorney Jay, be allowed to confront the witness with the documents. And we'll be, that is a continuing motion because we'll be doing that for the rest of the remainder of the testimony, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Assisting counsels from both parties may approach.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Yes. Yes, Attorney Baquel.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: May we know the purpose of the questioning of the prosecution?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, I am tempted to state that but we are leading there. We are about to establish the ground for to make this witness an hostile witness. May we not be

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: preempted, Your Honor? You answered the query of counsel. You may

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: proceed. Your Honor, please. This witness, Madam Acosta, is facing a complaint together with the Vice President exactly because of their misuse of confidential funds. Your Honor. It is stated in the witnesses' counter-affidavit that the Vice President is not responsible or should not be held liable for any misuse of confidential funds. Your Honor, that interest is directly adverse to the prosecution's case before this impeachment court. The prosecution seeks to prove otherwise that this witness, that the Vice President, rather, is responsible for the illegal disbursement of confidential funds. Therefore, if on one hand, sinasabi ng testigo sa counter-affidavit niya na walang pagkakasala yung Vice President sa maling paggamit ng confidential funds, that's on one hand. On the other hand naman, sinasabi ng prosecution, Your Honor, please, na no, hindi, may ebidensya, it's so clear, na kailangan, kailangan.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Managot yung Vice President for misusing public funds. Now, this is the time, Your Honor, please. Okay? If the Good Counsel will allow,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: with the presentation of a counter-affidavit by the witness stating under oath that the Vice President did not misuse confidential funds in direct conflict

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: With the prosecution's case, Your Honor, please, we now invoke Section 13, Rule 132 of the Revised Rules and Evidence, if the court may allow.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, according to Section 13, Rule 132, a witness may be considered as an unwilling or hostile if so declared by the courts upon adequate showing. Yun yung una po, Your Honor. Adverse interests.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Miss Acosta, the witness, has an adverse interest in this case as her position as shown sa counter-affidavit niya is clearly inconsistent with the position of the prosecution that called her as a witness. The prosecution presents her to prove that the respondent misappropriated confidential funds. Sa kabilang panig, sinasabi ni Ms. Acosta, yung Vice President complied sa lahat ng rules saka batas sa paggamit ng confidential funds. Sinasabi ni Ms. Acosta, hindi nag-misuse si Vice Presidente Sara Duterte ng kahit isang sentimo ng confidential funds. We now invoke the case of People v. Che Chun Ting. GR number 130-568-69 dated March 21, 2000. Supreme Court dealt with a hostile witness. Kasi nga adverse yung interest doon. Sinasabi sa kaso ngayon, having an adverse interest meant, eto, that the position or interest was adverse to what the party called or wanted to establish or prove. yun po yung bataya ng Supreme Court. Kung yung posisyon ng isang witness ay salungat sa posisyon ng partidong nagpapatawag sa kanya, sa kaso ng

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: iyan, sabi ng

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Supreme Court, established na po yung requirement ng adverse interests sa ilalim ng rules of courts.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, the respondent respectfully submits that the adverse interest must be shown by the prosecution through an examination of the witness and not through a mere motion or manifestation, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: He just did, counsel, by showing the position taken by the witness in her counter-affidavit.

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Additionally, Your Honor, the defense also submits that the mere fact of dependency of the criminal case This not satisfy the requirement of adverse interest under the rules of evidence, considering that it apparently constitutes to a mere expectation that the witness will testify unfavorably to the prosecution, which is not within the ambit of the rules. Considering that the declaration of a witness as hostile presupposes that the prosecution would face difficulty in obtaining answers from the witness on account of such adverse interests, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Allow the presiding officer. Ms. Gina? Saan po kayo nagtatrabaho ngayon sa Office of the Vice President? Tama po?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sino po ang boss niyo sa Office of the Vice President?

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Gina F. Acosta: Si Vice President Sara Duterte.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Permanente po ba kayo doon o coterminous?

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Gina F. Acosta: Coterminous po, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So pag wala na si VP Sara doon sa OBP, wala na rin po kayo?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So pag na-impeach si VP Sara o matanggal siya, wala na rin po kayong trabaho doon?

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Gina F. Acosta: Wala na po akong trabaho sa OVP.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa OVP, syempre. Maalis kayo sa OVP. Tama po?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In addition to the ground raised by Attorney Ligutan, that witness has taken a position by virtue of her counter-affidavit filed before the Office of the Ombudsman. The court hereby declares the witness to be a hostile witness under and in accordance with Rule 132, Section 13. However, for the information of the senator-judges and the public and councils as well, this only gives Attorney Ligutan the right to ask leading questions, still not allowed to ask misleading questions. As I know, Attorney Ligutan is well aware of the distinction.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. To abbreviate the proceedings, the witness is so declared and Attorney Ligutan may ask leading questions of this witness. It's ordered.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Maraming salamat. Madam Witness, kayo po, ma'am, ay isang hostile witness na. So, ma'am, I can now ask you questions. Sorry for a brief beside. Pero, ma'am, wala tanag-away, ha? We are not enemies. Okay? Andito po tayo sa isang bagay lang. Ano yung totoo? kung sa'y tinuod, kung sa'y kamaturan. Let's proceed. Madam Witness, you already mentioned, in fact established, na bago ka naging SDO para sa Office of the Vice President, ikaw rin ang SDO na nag-a-handle ng confidential funds po para sa Davao City. Alala mo po ba yan? Your Honor. That's preliminary, preliminary, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Baquel?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: are at issue in this case, Your Honor. Can I respond

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: to

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: that,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, please?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Chair already made a ruling in regard to that, Attorney Baquel. We will allow it to establish pattern and or behavior but not to add to the articles of impeachment against the Vice President. That is quite clear. Not only to counsels, but also to the senator-judges and for the public as well. But the Chair would like to note, if you would like to make one, a continuing objection insofar as this line of questioning is concerned. Yes, Your Honor. Continuing objection of counsel to this line of questioning is hereby noted. Thank you so

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: much. We are also, we

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: will be continually invoking isang rule sa rules a procedure Rule 130, Section 35. Exactly. I think that's what the honorable presiding officer had in mind. Rule 130, Section 5. Allowing presentation of evidence on previous acts to prove specific intent, knowledge, identity, plan, system, scheme, habit, custom, usage, or the like.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: maaintindihan ng ating mga kababayan, pattern. May pattern.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May proceed, Your Honor? You may proceed, counsel.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Thank you. So therefore, madam, yung paghahandle po ng confidential funds hindi na bago sa inyo. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Ano po, Your Honor? Pamilya lang po ako sa pagiging SDO, Special Disbursement Officer.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright, now. And ma'am, familiar din po kayo sa mga dokumento or reports na kailangang ihanda bago po magamit

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ng

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: isang opisina gaya ng Office of the Vice President ng Confidential Funds. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor. Opo.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Thank you so much, ma'am. In fact, madam,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You are familiar with Joint Circular 2015-01. In particular, nakasaad dyan, paragraph 4.2. May we be allowed, Your Honor, please, to... Ayan. Ma'am, nakasulat po sa paragraph 4.2 ng Joint Circular 2015-01 na lahat ng allocations ng confidential funds Dapat supported by yung unang dokumento, ma'am, nakasulat dyan, physical and financial plan. Familiar po kayo sa provision na ito, ma'am, di ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Okay,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ma'am. Salamat po. Now, according sa provision na ito, ang pagdi-disperse, okay, ang paggagamit, Ma'am, what's Visaya for disbursement? Kung alam niyo po. Ano ba yung Visaya? What term do we use? Cebuano-Visaya for disbursement?

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Gina F. Acosta: Ang pag-release.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pag-release. Okay. Kailangan base yan sa physical and financial plan. Okay. Therefore, hindi po pwede na may marirelease na confidential funds kung walang tinatawag na PFP. No? physical and financial plan. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tama po, ma'am. Di po ba, ma'am, kinukumpirma mo na para sa ikaapat at huling quarter ng 2022 para mairelease yung 125 million pesos na confidential funds, sinasabi niyo, nag-comply naman yung Office of the Vice President sa kinakailangang physical and financial plan. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tama po ba? Now, in fact, ma'am, pumerma ka at nagsumiti kayo ng isang physical and financial plan na yung petsa is December 13, 2022. Tama po ba, ma'am?

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Gina F. Acosta: Hindi ko maalala exactly ang number, Your Honor, pero nag-himot niyo physical financial plan.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Dagnaghimo, Your Honor, means gumawa sila ng

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: physical and

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: financial plan. Thank you so much. Now, so para po maalala natin, ma'am, ipapakita natin ngayon yung isang physical and financial plan.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Mark as P-I-14-1 for the prosecution. Show the document on the screen.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: and to the witness.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, yung physical and financial plan, ipinirmahan po ni Rosalyn Sanchez tsaka ni Sara Z. Duterte. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, maalala mo now yung dokumentong ito. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. And

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: then, base sa dokumentong ito, ma'am, sinasabi dyan, ikaw yung tinatawag natin na Project Accountable Officer. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In fact, ma'am, you will also confirm na pinirmahan niyo po yung PFP as the Project Accountable Officer. Nakasulat dyan, ma'am. Diba, ma'am, nakasulat dyan? Prepared by. Ibig sabihin, kayo po, ma'am, yung nag-prepare.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ng PFP. Based on document. Based on document.

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Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor, pero during paghimuan ni Your Honor, kasama ko po ang aming security officer, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: By paghimuan, it means while we were making this, I was with the our security officer. Ma'am, tama po yung interpretation ko, di po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Kasama ko po ang aming security officer, Your Honor, kasi Sa kanya po ako nakihingi ng mga inputs or guidelines in preparation for the fiscal financial plan.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Maraming salamat for that. But we will go into that, ma'am. We will go into that. Taabot po tayo sa punto niyan. Okay po, ma'am? Now, ma'am, bilang po project accountable officer, ikaw nakasulat dyan, ikaw yung nagprepara ng plano, ikaw din. being the officer, accountable officer. Yung naglista ng mga confidential funds. Ma'am, yung paglista, ma'am, ha? Yung tanong ko, ha? Paglista ng confidential funds, programs, and activities na nasusulat sa physical and financial plan. Di po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Pwede usabon, Your Honor, ang question.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ako usabon, ma'am, no? Bilang project accountable officer.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: The one who prepared the plan, ikaw din yung naglista. Yung naglista ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Tulad.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sa plano, sa plan, ano yung mga programa at activities? Yung paglilista po. Kayo po yun, di ba? As the project accountable officer, the one who prepared the plan. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Tama po with the...

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Gina F. Acosta: tulong po ng security officer. Yes, ma

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Gina F. Acosta: 'am.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: We'll go into that. Ma'am, let's continue. Now, makikita natin sa plano, ma'am, na inlistan nyo under the column programs with an S, activities with an S, projects with an S,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: PAP. Ma'am, ano yung nakasulat dyan? Ano yung programa sa mga programs?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: activities, projects. Anong programa yung sinulat niyo dyan? Good governance program.

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Gina F. Acosta: Sorry, Your Honor. Hadikai. Dilikayo ko.

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Gina F. Acosta: Dilikayo ko kabasa, Your Honor, kay Gagmay Kayo ang letra. The

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: witness

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: said hindi niya kayang basahin dahil maliit yung mga letra.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So, you can peruse the document even without. Okay? Pwede ba mas? Ayan, ma'am, di ba?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Good governance program.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ligutan, if you're approaching the witness, kindly bring the mic para hindi mahirapan yung ating gumagawa ng TSN.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now, ma'am, okay

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: na po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Okay po.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, now, yung tanong is, ano ba

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: itong

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: good governance program na ito? What is this all about?

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Gina F. Acosta: Ito po yung mga programa ng opisina ng Office of the Vice President na nakalista na po sa buong taon. Halimbawa po, yung libring sakay, yung plant at risk millionaires, or million, kalimutan ko sir, libring sakay, yung financial, medical, Medical assistance, Your

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor. Okay. So, ma'am, yun yung mga sinasabi mong mga programa under this program. Yun yung sinasabi mo, di ba? Ma'am, sino po yung nag-conceptualize? Sino pong bumuo o nag-isip ng programang ito?

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Gina F. Acosta: Ang opisina po ng Office of the Vice President, Your Honor, with coordination po sa aming security officer.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now. Kailan po nabuo ang planong ito?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sa security officer naman, yung nag-conceptualize, di po ba,

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Gina F. Acosta: ng

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: mga planong ito?

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Gina F. Acosta: Repeat, Your Honor, sa question.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sino yung kailan na conceptualize? Ito yung tanong. Kailan nabuo or napag-isipan or na-conceptualize itong good governance program? Kailan?

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Gina F. Acosta: Sa pag... Sa pag ano na, Your Honor, pag kimo na o pag-request na ni Ma'am VP ng confidential funds.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: When the Vice President requested for confidential funds. Ma'am, may mga pag-aaral ba o pagsasaliksik na ginawa ang inyong opisina to come up with the program?

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Gina F. Acosta: Wala akong personal knowledge, Anna, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: May proseso ba o kriteriya na ginamit to select of all programs, good governance programs? Wala po.

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Gina F. Acosta: Wala akong kabalo, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: By wala'y kabalo, it means wala po akong personal knowledge. Wala po akong alam.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: We're fine here, okay?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Let's continue, Your Honor. You may continue, counsel, but the public is reminded to kindly put their phones in silent mode.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, now.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sinabi niyo, ma'am, na wala po kayong alam, wala kayong personal knowledge, kasi po, hindi naman po ikaw yung nag-identify ng mga programa. Tsaka mga activities na nakasulat sa 2022 Physical and Financial Plan. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In fact, ma'am, you will admit, confirm, na noong November 25, 2024, yung pagdinig ng Committee on Good Governments and Accountability, you

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: merely ask a security officer Colonel La Chica. What to state in the physical and financial plan as confidential activities in relation sa paggamit ng Office of the Vice President ng Confidential Funds. To aid your memory, Your Honor, please, we are showing on the screen, on the screen, a portion of the transcript of the Committee on Good Government and Accountability hearing. November 25, 2024 where sinasabi ng witness that all information that will be reflected in the physical and financial plan of the Office of the Vice President which she prepared galing lang sa isang security officer si Colonel Achica.

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Gina F. Acosta: Siya po ang nagbigay sa akin ng inputs, Your Honor, or mga guidelines, Your Honor, kung ano po ang mga activities in relation po sa pagkandak po ng confidential operations or activities.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Salamat, ma'am. Ma'am, who is this Colonel La Chica?

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Gina F. Acosta: Si

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Gina F. Acosta: Colonel La Chica po ay siya po ang commanding officer ng aming BPSPG, at siya din ang aming security officer ng Office of the Vice President.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Si Colonel La Chica, yung full name niya po ay si Colonel Raymond Dante La Chica. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Muna yung full name, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yun yung full name niya. Now, thank you so much. Nag-agsalamat, ma'am. Now, hindi po ba na-aside po na si La Chica? Colonel La Chica yung magsasabi sa iyo ano yung isusula sa plan, hindi po ba na the same? Colonel La Chica, yung nagbibigay sa iyo ng mga listahan ng object of expenditures where the confidential funds will be used. Ma'am, before you answer that, to remind you, eto naman, page 126 po ng transcript of the C. GGPA hearing dated November 25, 2024.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Nakasaad dyan, inamin niyo, under oath ma'am, na iyong nagbibigay sa iyo ng listahan ng object of expenditures, paano gagamitin yung confidential funds.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ikaw po yung nagprepara, pero si Col. La Chica yung nagsasabi sa iyo sa mga listahan ng paggagamitan ng confidential funds. Based on that transcript. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Sorry, Your Honor, nalibog ko sa imahang question. Taas man kaayo.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: We have to clarify. By nalibog, ibig sabihin, confused. Na-confused po. Now, ma'am, base po sa November 25, 2024 hearing, inamin niyo po na si Colonel La Chica yung nagbibigay sa iyo ng listahan ng Object of Expenditures for Confidential Funds. Tama po ba?

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Gina F. Acosta: Object of Expenditures. Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your

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Gina F. Acosta: Honor. Nag

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: -agsalamat, ma'am. Ma'am, eto na yung tanong, ma'am.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Isn't it po na yung paggagawa, pagpre-prepara ng plano, tsaka yung pagdidetali, pagdidetali ng Objects of

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: expenditures,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: hindi po ba trabaho niyo yun? Bilang

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: special

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: disbursing officer being the project accountable officer as indicated in the plan prepared by. Hindi po ba dapat kayo yun?

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel for the respondent. We respectfully

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: object, Your Honor. on the ground of being compound and argumentative, Your Honor.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Objection is overruled. Witness may answer.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pakisagot po yung tanong, Ma 'am

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Gina.

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Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, pwede po usbon ang iyang pangutana. Taas mang good, Your Honor. Yes, Ma

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 'am. I will, Ma'am. Para kay Gina Acosta, I will do that. Ma'am.

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Gina F. Acosta: Salamat.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay now, hindi po ba na yung pagdadraft ng physical and financial plan, trabaho niyo bilang project accountable officer as indicated by the note prepared by in the plan. Di ba trabaho niyo dapat yan?

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Gina F. Acosta: Trabaho ko po yan with the inputs or guidelines sa aming security officer, Your Honor. Yes,

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ma'am. Ma'am, hindi po ba? na yung paglilista ng expenditures, ma'am, sa planong iyan, as indicated by the note, prepared by you being the project accountable officer, hindi po ba trabaho niyo rin po yan?

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Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Ask and answer.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Wala, iba yun. Yung kanina was drafting, now is detailing of the list of expenses.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly address the court, counsel.

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Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer.

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Gina F. Acosta: Ano po yun, sir?

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, kanina sinabi mo yung pag-prepare para trabaho niyo with inputs ni Colonel Chica. Yung tanong nao is, yung paglilista, pagdidetalye ng expenditures. Opo, di ba trabaho niyo rin po yan as SDO slash Project Accountable Officer as indicated by the note, prepared by.

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Gina F. Acosta: Ang pagsulat po, ako, pero ang... Ang mga expenses po kung unsa ang gamiton kay Sir, kay security officer po kasi siya po ang mag-implement ng various confidential operation activities. Kaya siya po ang eksperto dito sa ground, Your Honor.

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Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So therefore, ma'am, kayo po yung taga-sulat sa lahat ng gustong ispasulat ni Colonel Achica. Tama po ba?

371
01:23:13,820 --> 01:23:23,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Misleading, Your Honor. Misleading, counsel. The witness did not say that. She said she was getting inputs from Colonel La Chica. Your Honor, that's a follow-up question, Your Honor,

372
01:23:23,980 --> 01:23:24,800
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: please. That's a

373
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:41,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: follow-up question. So I'm confirming with her that it was Colonel La Chica who told her what to write, what to input. That's the question, Your Honor, please. On the basis of her previous answer that it was with the inputs of Colonel La Chica. So that's a question by itself, Your Honor, please. A follow-up question.

374
01:23:42,890 --> 01:23:50,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina, kayo po ang nagta-type dito sa form na to. Pag sinabing prepared by you, kayo po yung nag-type, nag-sulat.

375
01:23:51,070 --> 01:23:53,090
Gina F. Acosta: Ako po ang nag-sulat, Your Honor.

376
01:23:53,430 --> 01:24:00,770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pero kinukuha niyo po yung sinusulat ninyo mula kay Colonel Lachica. Kumukuha po kayo ng input sa kanya kung anong ita-type o isusulat niyo dyan.

377
01:24:00,930 --> 01:24:02,670
Gina F. Acosta: After we discuss, po, Your Honor.

378
01:24:04,170 --> 01:24:05,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pagkatapos niyo mag-usap ni Colonel Lachica.

379
01:24:06,290 --> 01:24:07,210
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

380
01:24:07,650 --> 01:24:13,180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ibig sabihin po ba nun, pwede niyong sabihin kay Colonel Lachica, maliyag. Hindi pwede yan.

381
01:24:14,130 --> 01:24:14,570
Gina F. Acosta: O

382
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:17,030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sinusunod niyo lang po lahat ng sinasabi niya?

383
01:24:17,670 --> 01:24:34,090
Gina F. Acosta: Mangutana, nangutana ako sa iya, Your Honor, kung unsan na, Your Honor, ngano ka na ang gastuhon, Your Honor, asa na, paunsan na siya maka, maka, paunsan na siya na related sa confidential, Your Honor.

384
01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:40,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So tinatanong niyo lang po siya, ano yan, para saan yan, pasok ba yan sa confidential, paano hindi, at pag sumagot siya, isusunod niyo po yan.

385
01:24:41,610 --> 01:24:46,210
Gina F. Acosta: Kung ma-satisfy ko po sa iyong i-explain sa ko ay Your Honor.

386
01:24:46,510 --> 01:24:49,850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pag nakontento kayo sa paliwanag niya, ilalagay niyo po.

387
01:24:50,210 --> 01:24:52,810
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Okay. Tony Ligudan,

388
01:24:52,810 --> 01:25:07,930
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: your witness. Thank you so much. Now, going back, Madam Witness, going to the physical and financial plan for the so-called Good Governance Program, you will confirm you allocated 125 million pesos. Tama po ba?

389
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:10,640
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

390
01:25:10,980 --> 01:25:15,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In facts, ma'am, as can be seen, show the plan again.

391
01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:18,290
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You

392
01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:44,380
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: did not list specific activities under the good governance program. Ulitin ko, wala po kayong inilista ng mga specific particular activities under the good governance program. Wala po kayong nakalistang specific activities.

393
01:25:44,740 --> 01:25:47,940
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Original document rule, Your Honor. Can

394
01:25:47,940 --> 01:26:08,840
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I explain? Can I rebut that? Witness may... What's your comment, Attorney Legutan? Your Honor, I would not... I don't want to put the defense on the spot. Your Honor, please. That is, with all respect, a wrong invocation of the original document rule. The original document rule simply states na hindi po pwede...

395
01:26:10,570 --> 01:26:11,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi po puwedeng

396
01:26:17,290 --> 01:26:48,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: magpresenta ng ebidensya na secondary kung hindi ipipresenta yung original. Pero Your Honor, the fact na yung original ay nasa harap na sa isang witness, I don't see anywhere in the rules that will prohibit counsel from propounding questions. on the basis of that document.

397
01:26:48,540 --> 01:26:48,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: For

398
01:26:48,980 --> 01:26:49,440
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: me...

399
01:26:49,440 --> 01:27:09,160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Besides counsel, Atty. Bachel, the counsel is not trying to change the contents of the document. He's merely asking the witness to explain the contents of the document. Ms. Acosta, you may answer, ma'am. Ang nilagay niyo lamang po, good governance... Ano

400
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:10,340
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: po yan? Program po.

401
01:27:11,140 --> 01:27:15,220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Programs at wala po kayo nilagay na detalye ng mga programang yan.

402
01:27:16,340 --> 01:27:26,500
Gina F. Acosta: Wala po akong nilagay na detail, Your Honor, kasi sa GC po, Your Honor, wala naman po nakabutang dito na i-itemize, Your Honor.

403
01:27:28,340 --> 01:27:35,180
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, let's go to paragraph 6.1 ng Joint Circular 2015.

404
01:27:38,020 --> 01:27:40,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, show it please.

405
01:27:42,430 --> 01:27:59,110
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Di po ba sa 6.1 sinasabi dyan? Cash advances shall be used for specific legal purpose.

406
01:28:01,510 --> 01:28:28,650
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: At saka 5.2.2, nakasulat dyan, agencies shall report the specific detail of the corresponding expenditures. In two instances po, nakasulat sa joint circular yung term na specific. And you will stand by your answer. Argumentative, Your Honor. Wait, wait,

407
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:28,810
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: wait.

408
01:28:28,930 --> 01:28:40,140
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I'm just confirming. I'm just confirming. Despite these two provisions, you are of the opinion, Madam, na

409
01:28:41,670 --> 01:28:46,070
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: walang requirement na dapat specific. Argumentative,

410
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:49,170
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Objection is overruled. Witness will answer, please.

411
01:28:51,280 --> 01:29:15,500
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, sa mga dokumento po nga i-attach dito sa confidential funds liquidation, dagahan po ang document, Your Honor, na i-submit ni mo nga na ay documents dito na kailangan i-itemize ni mo, Your Honor. In

412
01:29:15,500 --> 01:29:16,940
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the report. Your

413
01:29:16,940 --> 01:29:18,750
Gina F. Acosta: Honor. sa isa sa

414
01:29:18,750 --> 01:29:26,270
Gina F. Acosta: mga dokumento na i-attach nimo dito, i-liquidate nimo sa confidential funds, Your Honor.

415
01:29:26,610 --> 01:29:31,450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Let me state that for the record. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ma'am Gina.

416
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:52,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung binabanggit po niyong pag-comply, walang nakalagay specifically sa joint circular, na dapat specific yun, dun sa, what's that, counsel? physical and financial plan po. Pero sa dokumentong sinasubmit, nandoon na

417
01:29:52,810 --> 01:29:54,090
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: yung mga detalye, ma'am Gina.

418
01:29:54,980 --> 01:29:56,040
Gina F. Acosta: Inanak, Your Honor.

419
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:57,120
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your

420
01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:57,980
Gina F. Acosta: Honor.

421
01:30:00,940 --> 01:30:28,750
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: There is only, this is another question now. There is only a blanket program, general program, good governance program in the plan and the plan did not mention any surveillance operations by specific number, location or cost. Do you want me to repeat the question or you can answer now?

422
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:33,250
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Askin answered and original document rule, Your Honor.

423
01:30:34,010 --> 01:30:41,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not yet answered, counsel. And again, same ruling as your point on the original document rule. Ma

424
01:30:41,650 --> 01:30:54,560
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 'am, yung tanong is, wala pong specific mention ng specific number, location, or cost ng mga sinasabi niyong surveillance operations. Wala doon sa plano, di po ba?

425
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:01,720
Gina F. Acosta: pwede mangutana, Your Honor, unsan ang documento, Your Honor. Katong

426
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:08,020
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: plano po, yung plano po, physical and financial plan. Nakasulat dyan, good governance program. Anyways, Your Honor, please.

427
01:31:08,380 --> 01:31:16,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At this juncture, I will agree with counsel for the respondent. Asked and answered, counsel. That's her answer. Thank you so much. Now, aside

428
01:31:16,420 --> 01:31:32,660
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: from walang surveillance operations by number, location, or cost, wala ding specific targets nakasulat sa plano. for each of the program activities. Tama po ba? Walang specific targets this time.

429
01:31:34,060 --> 01:31:34,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: By

430
01:31:34,740 --> 01:31:36,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: all

431
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:36,860
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: means po.

432
01:31:40,340 --> 01:31:42,380
Gina F. Acosta: For 2022, Your Honor,

433
01:31:43,020 --> 01:31:44,640
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: saan

434
01:31:44,990 --> 01:31:52,620
Gina F. Acosta: mo ang physical financial plan, Your Honor, na ikulong dito nga physical target, Your Honor?

435
01:31:56,240 --> 01:32:21,480
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, mayroon. Ma'am, yung tanong is, nakasulat lang dyan is, ma'am o, number, period, of identified areas of surveillance conducted and monitored, and then yung pangalawa, letter B, yung ano lang, yung simbolo ng percentage, no? Percentage of activities implemented without specifying, una po, this is the

436
01:32:21,480 --> 01:32:26,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: first question, ano yung actual number? Wala po, di po ba? Yes po?

437
01:32:27,370 --> 01:32:31,830
Gina F. Acosta: Wala pa, Your Honor, kaya wala pa manay tabo. Plano pa manay, Your Honor.

438
01:32:34,260 --> 01:32:34,780
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay.

439
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:51,190
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So wala pa kasi plano pa lang and then you asked for 125 million pesos. Kahit wala pang activities, plano pa lang. Tama po ba? Misleading, Your Honor.

440
01:32:53,790 --> 01:32:54,150
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That's a

441
01:32:54,150 --> 01:32:55,250
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: follow-up question, Your Honor.

442
01:32:55,890 --> 01:32:56,730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Objection is sustained.

443
01:32:58,450 --> 01:33:00,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ask based on the document, counsel.

444
01:33:02,260 --> 01:33:06,180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You're referring to the physical target only. Yes, sir. Yes,

445
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:11,020
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sir. Now, nakalagay ba dyan yung actual number?

446
01:33:12,530 --> 01:33:15,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no? May numero ba?

447
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:19,300
Gina F. Acosta: Wala pa, Your Honor.

448
01:33:19,580 --> 01:33:33,410
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay. May naka-indicate ba na percentage, actual percentage under the category percentage of activities implemented? Wala po ba? Meron ba? Wala.

449
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:43,920
Gina F. Acosta: Wala pa, Your Honor. Pero gihimon na, Your Honor, kay naanay approval. Kung asa minakabalo, kung pila ang kwarta, Your Honor, kay naanay saru.

450
01:33:44,140 --> 01:33:49,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Now, okay. Ma'am. Kindly translate that for the record. Who can translate that, please?

451
01:33:55,740 --> 01:34:02,460
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: It's indicated because there is already a saru. if the defense will stipulate on that interpretation.

452
01:34:03,340 --> 01:34:05,820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may

453
01:34:05,820 --> 01:34:06,020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: have

454
01:34:06,020 --> 01:34:06,480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your own.

455
01:34:15,650 --> 01:34:16,530
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor.

456
01:34:33,870 --> 01:34:48,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The translation we're getting is it's not The number and percentage is not there. Yung percentage po at yung bilang, wala po doon. Dahil kaka-release pa lang ng SARO. Tama po ma'am?

457
01:34:49,070 --> 01:34:50,230
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

458
01:34:50,670 --> 01:34:54,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. As best as we could, counsel. Please proceed.

459
01:34:55,010 --> 01:35:13,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, the 2022 physical and financial plan allocated, ma'am, nag-allocate po ng 125 billion pesos kahit walang breakdown ng amount for for each specific activity. Tama po ba?

460
01:35:13,220 --> 01:35:13,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: As

461
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:24,820
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you answered, Your Honor. There's another angle as to the amount relative to the activity as to the budget that the Office of the Vice President is asking. It's the

462
01:35:24,820 --> 01:35:29,500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: same point, Your Honor. Same point, Counsel. Move on. We get what you have established.

463
01:35:29,780 --> 01:35:33,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Thank you so much. Now, therefore, Madam Witness, yung

464
01:35:35,690 --> 01:35:41,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Office of the Vice President can just include, pupwedeng,

465
01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:43,370
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: i

466
01:35:43,370 --> 01:35:57,780
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: -include, i-sama ng Office of the Vice President sa liquidation reports ng kahit anong activity so

467
01:36:00,310 --> 01:36:14,170
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: long as ililabel siya na parte ng broad good governance program. Do you want me to repeat the question or you can answer now?

468
01:36:14,390 --> 01:36:14,850
Gina F. Acosta: I will.

469
01:36:20,590 --> 01:36:22,690
Gina F. Acosta: Clarify, Your Honor. Your

470
01:36:22,690 --> 01:36:35,910
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor, if the court may allow, I will repeat the question. Therefore, madam, kasi nga walang breakdown, in draft sa paggawa niyo ng liquidation report,

471
01:36:37,940 --> 01:36:49,470
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: pupwede niyong isama doon sa liquidation report ng kahit anong aktibidad so

472
01:36:51,580 --> 01:36:54,840
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: long as sasabihin niyo

473
01:36:56,870 --> 01:37:01,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: partyan ng good governance program. Objection, Your Honor.

474
01:37:01,510 --> 01:37:02,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the basis?

475
01:37:03,130 --> 01:37:03,270
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the

476
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:03,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: objection, counsel?

477
01:37:04,370 --> 01:37:07,330
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Misleading and speculative, Your Honor. It's

478
01:37:07,330 --> 01:37:10,730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: not counsel. In fact, I think that's one of the questions some of the senator-judges will ask.

479
01:37:11,030 --> 01:37:11,510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma

480
01:37:11,510 --> 01:37:11,590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'am,

481
01:37:11,590 --> 01:37:12,010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: naintindihan

482
01:37:12,010 --> 01:37:19,310
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: niyo po yung tanong? Ma'am Gina, naintindihan niyo po yung tanong?

483
01:37:26,310 --> 01:37:30,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Good governance, good governance, what's that

484
01:37:30,570 --> 01:37:44,470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel? Programs? Good governance program po. Good governance program, ang tanong po niya. So, ano man yung sabihin nila, basta sabihin good governance program, pasok na po yan doon? Sa report po, sa report. Sa report lang po.

485
01:37:44,730 --> 01:37:58,430
Gina F. Acosta: Sa report na liquidation po. Your Honor, kung pag-ibon ako o liquidation report, nagbasi po ako sa fund utilization report na gihatag sa ako saan mo ang security officer, Your Honor,

486
01:37:58,590 --> 01:37:58,970
Gina F. Acosta: na

487
01:37:58,970 --> 01:38:05,070
Gina F. Acosta: makita dito kung asan na gasto ang kwarta unsa nga mga expenses o pila, Your Honor.

488
01:38:05,090 --> 01:38:10,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So ang pinagbabasihan niyo po yung liquidation report noong security officer na si Colonel Lachica, tama po?

489
01:38:10,530 --> 01:38:11,270
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

490
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:23,330
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Out of curiosity, May tinanggihan ba kayong liquidation report na sinabmit ni Cornella Chica o lahat po nang binigay niya sayo ay tinanggap mo na parte ng Good Governance Program?

491
01:38:24,670 --> 01:38:25,770
Gina F. Acosta: Sa Your Honor.

492
01:38:26,070 --> 01:38:41,230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Meron po ba kayong tinanggihan na liquidation na sinabmit si Cornella Chica sa 125 million sa last quarter ng 2022 o lahat po nang sinumitin niya na liquidation, tinanggap niyo at sa pananaw niyo ay kasama ng Good Governance Program?

493
01:38:41,650 --> 01:38:56,800
Gina F. Acosta: Ang lahat ng mga Lahat ng mga reports na giwihatag niya sa koa, Your Honor, akong gidawat, Your Honor, kay siyaman ang nakabalo unsaon pag-implementar sa mga confidential activities, kay siya ang eksperto, Your Honor, dito sa ground,

494
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:07,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Lahat po nang binigay niya sa inyo, tinanggap niyo, at kinonsideran ninyo na parte ng good governance program dahil saan naman niyo nakakaalam at intindi, dahil saan naman niyo nasa ground.

495
01:39:08,660 --> 01:39:10,140
Gina F. Acosta: Inanay, Your Honor. Yes, Your

496
01:39:10,140 --> 01:39:18,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. Let me continue on that point, counsel, with your permission and indulgence. So yung tree planting, good governance program po yun.

497
01:39:21,750 --> 01:39:22,230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung

498
01:39:22,230 --> 01:39:29,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: tree planting, binanggit niyo po kanina, tree planting, good governance program po yun. Kasama po yun doon sa pag-liquidate?

499
01:39:31,050 --> 01:39:37,730
Gina F. Acosta: Ang ibig sabihin, Your Honor, sa pag-gihing mo ang tree planting, Your Honor, na ay gihing mo.

500
01:39:39,650 --> 01:39:41,590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ang sinatanong ko po, ma'am, yung activity

501
01:39:41,590 --> 01:39:42,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: na

502
01:39:42,570 --> 01:39:51,730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: tree planting Barte po yun ng good governance sa pagkakaunawa ninyo na program. Yes or no, ma'am?

503
01:39:52,330 --> 01:40:04,810
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor, pero usada gihim mo, Your Honor, ang security officer, Your Honor, na gihim mong surveillance, monitoring, Your Honor.

504
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:09,610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nabasa ko po yun. Pati yung libring sakay, part ng good governance.

505
01:40:11,710 --> 01:40:14,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May surveillance din po doon. Nakita ko po sa liquidation report.

506
01:40:15,380 --> 01:40:16,400
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

507
01:40:16,620 --> 01:40:17,540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes. Okay,

508
01:40:17,620 --> 01:40:21,740
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: counsel, proceed. Thank you so much. Yun yung liquidation report.

509
01:40:22,220 --> 01:40:22,780
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now,

510
01:40:22,820 --> 01:40:35,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the point is, punta naman tayo sa accomplishment report. Kasi nga, iba yun, diba? Now, same line of question, but this time, different document.

511
01:40:38,910 --> 01:40:44,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You can just include. Pupwede nyong isulat sa accomplishment report.

512
01:40:46,040 --> 01:41:09,160
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: kahit anong na lang activity, kahit anong activity in the accomplishment report this time, not liquidation reports, so long as ililabel niyo lang under yan ng good governance program. You want me to repeat the question, ma'am, or you can answer now?

513
01:41:14,860 --> 01:41:15,460
Gina F. Acosta: Accomplishment

514
01:41:15,460 --> 01:41:34,940
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: report this time. Yung kanina po, nag-guess nyo na, liquidation report. Ngayon ngayon yung tanong is sa accomplishment report naman, pareho lang. Kahit anong activity, isasama sa accomplishment report so long as isusulat under good governance program. Tama po ba?

515
01:41:34,940 --> 01:41:40,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, can you confront the witness with the accomplishment report? Assisting counsel, can you forward the accomplishment report?

516
01:41:42,430 --> 01:41:43,390
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Para maunawaan ang

517
01:41:43,390 --> 01:41:52,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: testigo na ibang dokumento na ang pinag-uusapan natin, kanina yung physical and financial plan, ngayon naman yung accomplishment report.

518
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:12,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pakitingnan po at pag-aralan yung dokumento, Ma'am Gina, para alam niyo po na yan ang tinutukoy ni Atty. Ligutan sa mga katanungan po niya sa inyo.

519
01:42:16,100 --> 01:42:17,440
Gina F. Acosta: Excuse me, Your Honor.

520
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:33,460
Gina F. Acosta: Kajuhamin Agihimo o Accomplishment Report, Your Honor, for 2022.

521
01:42:36,060 --> 01:42:36,660
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

522
01:42:36,700 --> 01:42:36,840
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ma

523
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:36,940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'am.

524
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:43,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung dalawang beses kayo, dalawang beses po kayo gumawa ng Accomplishment Report, Ma'am Gina?

525
01:42:43,860 --> 01:42:45,000
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

526
01:42:45,180 --> 01:42:47,320
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Alin po yan? Yung nauna o yung sumunod?

527
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:53,540
Gina F. Acosta: Ang kaninggatag sakwa, Your Honor, mauni ang unang Agihimo, Your Honor.

528
01:42:53,540 --> 01:42:56,530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung unang Accomplishment Report. Do you have

529
01:42:56,530 --> 01:43:02,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: a copy of the second report? We can leave with one report.

530
01:43:03,090 --> 01:43:03,630
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: For this

531
01:43:03,630 --> 01:43:03,990
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: point, Your

532
01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:06,150
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor, please. I'll ask the direct question.

533
01:43:07,700 --> 01:43:08,340
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Madam

534
01:43:08,340 --> 01:43:10,060
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Witness, you are

535
01:43:10,060 --> 01:43:20,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: confirming that there are activities in your report, in the liquidation, in the Accomplishment Report that

536
01:43:20,090 --> 01:43:20,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you have

537
01:43:20,210 --> 01:43:20,470
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: read,

538
01:43:29,390 --> 01:43:31,130
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: and financial plan. Tama po ba?

539
01:43:32,140 --> 01:43:33,700
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, pagimol na po.

540
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:44,840
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, this time po, I hope you don't mind po. The question is simple. So, puwede kang tanungin ng abogado ng kabila. Pero, pag-isagot lang po muna.

541
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:48,780
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: The witness is answering, Your Honor. Let the witness answer.

542
01:43:49,900 --> 01:43:51,240
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Allow the witness to answer,

543
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:51,540
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: counsel.

544
01:43:52,200 --> 01:44:15,190
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: May mga aktibidades, activities, programa, kalihukan. in Visaya. Reflected in the reports, accomplishment reports, na hindi naman mababasa, makikita, nailista sa physical and financial plan. Tama po ba?

545
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:19,420
Gina F. Acosta: Libog. Nalito ako, Your Honor.

546
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:28,910
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyways, Your Honor. Ma'am, sa accomplishment report, yes, Senator-Judge Zubiri, would you like to offer your services?

547
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:43,660
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Yes, actually, not the services to interpret, but it's possible that Attorney Ligutan could ask the question in Bisaya, so that Mama Costa can understand.

548
01:44:43,820 --> 01:45:01,100
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: And then, anyway, it can be objected to by the defense because I know there are three or four of you, Bisaya, Taga Cebu, Tulu, Tulumo Ria, Nakasabot. So you can always object if the translation of Attorney Ligutan is wrong. is different. It's simple Bisaya naman.

549
01:45:02,700 --> 01:45:34,530
Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Makasabot man ta, pero ang mga Tinagalog din hindi kasabot. But you know, it's very simple. So maybe that way we don't have to keep stopping. Attorney Ligutan can ask the question first in Tagalog and then translate to simple Bisaya. Makatubag ni si ma'am. She can answer. And then... Attorney Ligutan can offer the answer also in Tagalog. If it is not like, of course, approved by the defense, the defense can give a clarification of what the answer of the lady witness has.

550
01:45:34,530 --> 01:45:40,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The point of the Senator-Judge is well taken. Let's try to do that, counsels, with your permission.

551
01:45:40,770 --> 01:45:41,030
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes,

552
01:45:41,090 --> 01:45:42,210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Bakel?

553
01:45:42,750 --> 01:46:01,610
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, Your Honor. May we respectfully suggest for a Court-appointed interpreter, considering that hindi po kasi ako bisaya, so actually nahihirapan po ako to understand the witness, understand Attorney Ligutan, and understand my colleagues who are likewise.

554
01:46:02,570 --> 01:46:15,010
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If you may, if you will please. We already have an interpreter, actually two of them here, that will course it through the chair if there is a need to do so. Some of the words are understandable.

555
01:46:16,630 --> 01:46:38,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Anyway, I'm kindly proceed slowly, Attorney Ligutan. But on this issue and this question, Ms. Acosta, ang tanong po sa inyo, may mga nilagay po kayong accomplishment report sa accomplishment report na wala dun sa physical and financial plan. Na sinabi niyo lamang o tinisip niyo lang kasama yan sa good governance program.

556
01:46:41,010 --> 01:46:45,550
Gina F. Acosta: Accomplishment report, Your Honor, is yung mga expenses na allowable po sa confidential funds.

557
01:46:45,990 --> 01:46:52,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Opo, pero wala nga po yan, hindi yan nilagay doon sa physical and financial plan. Nakalagay lang po sa accomplishment report.

558
01:46:54,300 --> 01:46:54,780
Gina F. Acosta: Sa

559
01:46:54,780 --> 01:46:57,620
Gina F. Acosta: accomplishment report, Your Honor, actual.

560
01:46:58,620 --> 01:47:02,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kaya nga, doon nga lang po nakasulat. Sa physical and financial plan, wala po doon.

561
01:47:04,710 --> 01:47:07,870
Gina F. Acosta: Generic po ang sa physical and financial plan, Your Honor.

562
01:47:08,150 --> 01:47:08,510
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney

563
01:47:08,510 --> 01:47:08,830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ligutan,

564
01:47:08,990 --> 01:47:09,270
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: continue.

565
01:47:11,470 --> 01:47:11,950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's a

566
01:47:11,950 --> 01:47:12,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: cue to the next question.

567
01:47:14,570 --> 01:47:15,570
Gina F. Acosta: And

568
01:47:16,010 --> 01:47:27,290
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: because the program indicated in the plan is broad and general, generic sabi niyo, so

569
01:47:30,650 --> 01:47:35,140
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: much discretion is

570
01:47:36,710 --> 01:47:53,230
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: given to the Office of the Vice President on how to utilize confidential funds. Translate into Tagalog, unfortunately I'll be needing What's Tagalog for this question po?

571
01:47:58,430 --> 01:47:59,370
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Kasi

572
01:47:59,370 --> 01:48:07,050
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: nga broad general yung program nakasulat sa PFP.

573
01:48:10,210 --> 01:48:11,730
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Maski ano na lang

574
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:15,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: kahit

575
01:48:15,300 --> 01:48:27,500
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: anong gustong gawin magagawa ng Office of the Vice President sa paggamit

576
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:31,690
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Confidential funds. You want to state in Visaya po?

577
01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:34,500
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Kay tungod.

578
01:48:37,570 --> 01:48:41,530
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: General. Generic. Ang programang nakasulat sa plano.

579
01:48:46,370 --> 01:48:47,290
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Bisag unsa.

580
01:48:48,860 --> 01:48:51,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So much discretion. Ma'am, I think you understand discretion, di po ba?

581
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:54,420
Gina F. Acosta: Um, authority?

582
01:48:56,500 --> 01:49:11,460
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Dako ang pagbuot sa office of the Vice President kung unsaon nila paggamit. sa confidential funds. Tama po ba? Objection,

583
01:49:11,460 --> 01:49:11,920
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor.

584
01:49:13,340 --> 01:49:14,680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the objection, counsel?

585
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:18,700
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Speculative and argumentative, Your Honor.

586
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:40,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It's not argumentative, counsel. Neither is it speculative. Objection overruled. Ma'am Gina, dahil po kayo nagsabi generic yung good governance program, malaking laya ang nabigay sa inyo. para magsulat ng kung anumang mga programa na papasok doon sa generic na good governance program.

587
01:49:43,180 --> 01:49:45,080
Gina F. Acosta: Duly, Your Honor, kaya

588
01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:45,520
Gina F. Acosta: nagbasi

589
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:48,280
Gina F. Acosta: ako sa Joint Circular 2015.

590
01:49:49,400 --> 01:50:02,040
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So ang sagot ay hindi. Hindi ganun kalaki ang kalayaang meron sila dahil binasin niya yung kanyang accomplishment report sa JC2015-1. Tama po ba?

591
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:04,380
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Okay.

592
01:50:04,380 --> 01:50:04,540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty.

593
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:04,940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Rigutan.

594
01:50:05,480 --> 01:50:26,440
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, showing you again, Madam Witness, the 2022 physical and financial plan. After you prepared the plan, it was noted by a certain Rosaline Sanchez. Is that

595
01:50:26,440 --> 01:50:26,600
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: correct?

596
01:50:28,180 --> 01:50:29,420
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

597
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:34,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor. The document please. And thereafter,

598
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:47,600
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You presented the plan kay Inday Sara, Vice President Sara,

599
01:50:49,230 --> 01:50:53,230
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: for her approval. Tama po ba?

600
01:50:53,670 --> 01:50:55,010
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Di

601
01:50:55,010 --> 01:50:55,550
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: pakitaan

602
01:50:55,550 --> 01:50:56,090
Gina F. Acosta: ako sa iyo.

603
01:50:56,150 --> 01:51:12,560
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In this case, did she provide any feedback on the stated generic, coming from your own mouth, good governance program?

604
01:51:14,620 --> 01:51:15,120
Gina F. Acosta: What is it,

605
01:51:15,220 --> 01:51:15,500
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor?

606
01:51:16,860 --> 01:51:19,890
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I'm sure you know feedback.

607
01:51:47,660 --> 01:51:55,910
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Saan po pumirma si Sara Zimmerman Duterte? Sa parte ng plano, saan jan?

608
01:51:56,490 --> 01:51:57,390
Gina F. Acosta: Sa approve.

609
01:51:58,490 --> 01:52:12,630
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Approved by, showing on screen, approved by Sara Z. Duterte, Vice President, Agency Head, Department Secretary, LCE.

610
01:52:13,170 --> 01:52:18,850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With the indulgence of Attorney Ligutan, what is the pleasure of Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo?

611
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:27,960
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Mr. President, I have here the transcript of the hearing in Congress.

612
01:52:29,710 --> 01:52:52,130
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Hindi ko po maintindihan bakit parang dito hirap na hirap po siya magtagalog when in fact sa Congress po noong November, itagalog naman po ang sagot niya. Ang tanong po sa kanya ni Congressman Luistro, payment of incentive, 11 po. Would you know whether this amounts would total 120 exactly? Yes, ma'am. Gitotal ko po iyan, ma'am. 120

613
01:52:52,130 --> 01:52:52,910
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: million po.

614
01:52:53,650 --> 01:53:55,360
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: It's all... Puro Tagalog, Mr. President. What is this? I mean, mabuti po sana pati yung discretionary. And she's a government official. She doesn't know what discretionary means is. I mean, what it means. Dito po, sumasagot naman po siya. English, Tagalog. Yes po. Are you aware of my authority, Special Dispersing Officer? Kasi po wala akong alam kung paano po i-implement ang mga confidential. Mr. President, tama na po itong paluloko sa atin. Please, Mr. President, compel this witness to talk in Tagalog. Kahit po yung mga Bisaya po nakaintindi ng Tagalog, nakakasalita ng Tagalog, ano tayo sa ibang bansa? Ano tayo? Mga Japon? Mga Chinese? I know, Ms. Witness, you can understand. You can understand Tagalog. You can speak Tagalog. Dahil nandito po ito. Ilang pahina po ito.

615
01:53:56,990 --> 01:54:12,390
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Tagalog po yung sagot po ninyo. English po, sumasagot kayo. Tinatanong kayo ng English, sumasagot po kayo. Bakit ngayon parang hirap na hirap? Kailangang i-translate sa Tagalog, sa Bisaya. Sagot, Tagalog, Bisaya, Tagalog, Bisaya. E abutin mo tayo ng

616
01:54:12,390 --> 01:54:15,110
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: isang taon dito, Mr. President. Ito po, yo.

617
01:54:21,170 --> 01:54:22,790
Sen. Erwin Tulfo: That's all, Mr. President.

618
01:54:36,380 --> 01:54:50,860
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator-Judge Erwin Tulfo. Point well taken. Attorney Ligutan, to abbreviate the proceedings, kindly choose one language, English or Filipino, in asking the question. You don't have to translate each time unless the witness requests you to do so.

619
01:54:51,100 --> 01:54:52,060
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor.

620
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:57,500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Preferably use Filipino, Attorney Ligutan, as I'm sure you're well versed with it as well.

621
01:55:06,490 --> 01:55:07,930
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes. Since

622
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:34,160
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you said, inapprobahan po ng vice president yung plano kasama sa inapprobahan ng vice president yung generic good governance program.

623
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:37,160
Gina F. Acosta: I

624
01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:38,140
Gina F. Acosta: approve, Your Honor.

625
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:54,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay. In fact, ma'am, yun din po yung naging tugon niyo sa same line of questioning. noong November 25, 2024. As shown by that portion of that transcript, you

626
01:55:56,090 --> 01:56:11,570
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: confirm that it was may approval po ng head of agency at saka yung head of agency is the respondent in this case, Sara Zimmerman Duterte, Vice President. Tama po ba?

627
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:13,190
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

628
01:56:13,210 --> 01:56:23,050
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Let's proceed po sa susunod na punto. Let's go to the physical and financial plan naman. This time, para naman sa 2023.

629
01:56:25,710 --> 01:56:32,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: From good governance program, ma'am, this time, Atty. J,

630
01:56:35,100 --> 01:56:50,470
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: it can be seen sa plano, this time, hindi na good governance program, kundi nakasunod dyan, socio-economic program.

631
01:56:51,220 --> 01:56:56,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Delivery. With the indulgence of counsel, can the tech please zoom in? Yes, kindly zoom in.

632
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:11,400
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Proceed, Your Honor. Ms. Gina will please answer, kindly confirm, ang nakasulat na po sa 2023 ay yung socio-economic program delivery.

633
01:57:12,610 --> 01:57:13,610
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

634
01:57:13,790 --> 01:57:15,430
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi na po good governance program.

635
01:57:15,850 --> 01:57:16,910
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

636
01:57:17,610 --> 01:57:18,470
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Proceed, Your Honor.

637
01:57:19,250 --> 01:57:19,810
Gina F. Acosta: But,

638
01:57:20,190 --> 01:57:27,070
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: but, sa 2023 physical and financial plan

639
01:57:27,610 --> 01:57:29,030
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung

640
01:57:31,560 --> 01:58:00,560
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: expected outcome naman nananatili. 2022 na expected outcome. Nakasulat, safe implementation of OVP initiatives and confidence building for 2022. Same expected outcome, safe implementation of OVP initiatives and confidence building. Tama po ba?

641
01:58:01,450 --> 01:58:03,510
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor. Ma

642
01:58:03,510 --> 01:58:26,460
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 'am, puwedeng mas malapit pa sa mikropono para po marinig. Again, may tubig diyan, ma'am, ha? If you want to drink water now. Therefore, masasabi natin, base sa dokumento, ma'am, yung 2023 physical and financial plan, kopya lang.

643
01:58:28,460 --> 01:58:37,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Kopya lang ng number one, physical target, Galing sa 2022. Tama po ba?

644
01:58:37,250 --> 01:58:48,870
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. The document would speak for itself because the prosecution is asking the witness what is already based on the document as the question is framed, Your Honor.

645
01:58:49,730 --> 01:58:59,250
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer. I'm just not so sure if she understands the word copy. So, Ma'am Gina, pareho lang po ang nilalaman ng physical and financial plan.

646
01:59:02,470 --> 01:59:03,390
Gina F. Acosta: Yes,

647
01:59:09,050 --> 01:59:10,130
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor. Now

648
01:59:10,130 --> 01:59:15,750
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: proceed. Same with budget for each quarter.

649
01:59:32,150 --> 01:59:44,180
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Fourth quarter ng 2023, ma'am. Kopyang kopya yung amount. 125 million pesos. Tama po ba?

650
01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:48,900
Gina F. Acosta: Tama, Your Honor, kay Ma'am Manda ang nakabutang saga, Your Honor.

651
01:59:50,510 --> 01:59:51,410
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Proceed, Your Honor.

652
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:52,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung may

653
01:59:52,970 --> 01:59:55,530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: tama daw dahil yung daw ang nakalagay is saga.

654
01:59:57,540 --> 02:00:25,230
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Both the 2020 2022 physical and financial plan and the 2023 version provided for broad program under po sa programs, activities, and projects sa 2022 good governance program sa 2023 naman socio-economic program. Pero as to budget, pareho. Yes

655
02:00:26,830 --> 02:00:27,050
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: or no?

656
02:00:27,470 --> 02:00:28,690
Gina F. Acosta: Pareho, Your Honor.

657
02:00:28,950 --> 02:00:31,420
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: As to expected outcome? Pareho.

658
02:00:32,180 --> 02:00:33,200
Gina F. Acosta: Pareho, Your Honor.

659
02:00:33,340 --> 02:00:58,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright. Now, let's go to this physical target naman. In the 2023 physical plan, same observation ba, ma'am? Na nakasulat dyan, letter A, number, identified areas with surveillance conducted and monitored without, hindi po nakasulat dyan yung aktual na numero. Tama po ba?

660
02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:00,380
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

661
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:19,620
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Same with the letter B entry. Percentage. Nakasulat dyan. Percentage. The symbol symbolizing percentage of activities implemented without and toward security-related incidents without stating the actual percentage. Tama po ba? Walang number.

662
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:22,360
Gina F. Acosta: Walang number. Tama po, Your Honor. In

663
02:01:22,680 --> 02:01:44,760
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: fact, you admitted, Madam, In the 2020, in the November 25, 2024 Committee on Good Government Hearing, that you have to consult Colonel La Chica on what to put in the physical and financial plan. Do you remember this?

664
02:01:45,820 --> 02:01:46,960
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

665
02:01:47,120 --> 02:02:13,700
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yan. The programs, yung programa po, yung mga ine-expect natin resulta sa mga programa, Yung mga targets ng mga plano, lahat ng ito ay gawa ay galing kay Colonel La Chica de Puba.

666
02:02:16,580 --> 02:02:18,980
Gina F. Acosta: I will

667
02:02:18,980 --> 02:02:30,340
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: repeat. Ang programa sa plano, ang expected outcome, ang

668
02:02:31,870 --> 02:02:34,270
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: target sa physical plan,

669
02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:43,630
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: galing. Kay Colonel Lachika. Tama po ba?

670
02:02:43,710 --> 02:02:44,550
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor.

671
02:02:44,550 --> 02:02:44,950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the

672
02:02:44,950 --> 02:02:47,000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: objection? What's the objection, counsel?

673
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:55,890
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: As can be answered, Your Honor, the witness has already testified previously that security officers is providing inputs and

674
02:02:55,890 --> 02:02:56,470
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: guidance, Your Honor.

675
02:02:56,470 --> 02:03:08,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: This is 2023, Your Honor. I think the question pertains to 2023 now. That was answered with respect to 2022. Ma'am Gina, yung nangyari po ba noong 2022, ganun din po sa 2023, galing kay Colonel Lachika?

676
02:03:09,180 --> 02:03:22,120
Gina F. Acosta: Sa paggawa ng physical financial plan, Your Honor, kasama kaya po na ko siya. Kasama ko siya, Your Honor. Sa kanya pa rin ako nanghingi ng inputs and guidelines po, Your Honor.

677
02:03:22,140 --> 02:03:27,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So galing nga po sa kanya. Galing kay Colonel Atchika yung inyong inputs na nilagay dito.

678
02:03:28,460 --> 02:03:31,320
Gina F. Acosta: Kaming dalawa po, Your Honor, ang nag-discuss, Your Honor.

679
02:03:33,080 --> 02:04:13,360
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Counsel, your witness. Let's go to that November 25, 2024 hearing. Ma'am. Tinanong ka ni Representative Jean K. Luistro. As a matter of fact, the financial plan does not bear at all the signature or the name of Colonel La Chica. Ma'am, yung sagot niyo diyan. Yes po. Pero sa kanya po ako humihingi ng inputs or information with regards to the implementation of all these projects included in the confidential funds. This is what you said under oath in November 25. 2024, under oath. Tama po ba?

680
02:04:14,990 --> 02:04:17,590
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, please. Ma'am, did you answer opo?

681
02:04:18,210 --> 02:04:18,610
Gina F. Acosta: Opo.

682
02:04:18,770 --> 02:04:21,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Opo, ma'am. Your Honor, it's 12. Can I ask one

683
02:04:21,010 --> 02:04:26,590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question? And I move for lunch break? Yes, counsel. Before we proceed to the next question.

684
02:04:27,540 --> 02:04:28,760
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ito yung tanong na aw.

685
02:04:37,730 --> 02:04:38,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am.

686
02:04:38,530 --> 02:04:40,630
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, sir. Ay, it's attorney. Opo.

687
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:56,190
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sa lahat ng mga dokumento, isinumitin nyo sa COA, Commission on Audit. The plan, accomplishment reports,

688
02:04:56,730 --> 02:04:58,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: liquidation

689
02:04:59,150 --> 02:04:59,570
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: reports.

690
02:05:03,980 --> 02:05:31,690
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Nakasaad ba dyan sa kahit anong dokumento? Yung sinasabi nyo na lahat ng inputs yung sinulat nyo sa plano, lahat ng inputs sinulat nyo sa reporting to COA. Nakasaad ba dyan yung pangalan ni Colonel Lachica? Direction,

691
02:05:31,730 --> 02:05:35,750
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor. The document would speak for itself, Your Honor. That's a

692
02:05:35,750 --> 02:05:36,050
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: question

693
02:05:36,050 --> 02:05:38,390
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the public is very much willing to hear.

694
02:05:39,270 --> 02:05:44,590
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer. Counsel, let the witness answer. I think she knows the answer anyway.

695
02:05:44,850 --> 02:05:45,510
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no?

696
02:05:48,820 --> 02:05:58,450
Gina F. Acosta: Tama ba pag-understand ko sa question mo, Your Honor, na sa lahat ng mga dokumento na isubmit ko sa... Plano,

697
02:05:58,530 --> 02:06:00,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: physical plan, ma'am. Physical

698
02:06:00,090 --> 02:06:00,990
Gina F. Acosta: plan. Okay,

699
02:06:01,110 --> 02:06:02,270
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sa accomplishment report

700
02:06:02,270 --> 02:06:02,690
Gina F. Acosta: mismo.

701
02:06:03,720 --> 02:06:05,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sa liquidation report,

702
02:06:05,260 --> 02:06:06,340
Gina F. Acosta: sa

703
02:06:06,340 --> 02:06:34,910
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: certification na successful yung paggamit, tama yung paggamit ng plano. May isang dokumento ba dun? Ma'am, limited po tayo dun ha? Na ipinakita nyo sa publiko na si Curdel Lachica yung nagbibigay sa'yo ng input sa mga plano, saka siya yung nag-implement ng mga programs, activities. Meron ba dun? Yes? or no.

704
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:36,520
Gina F. Acosta: Wala.

705
02:06:39,340 --> 02:06:40,020
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Move for

706
02:06:40,020 --> 02:06:40,660
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: lunch

707
02:06:40,660 --> 02:06:41,100
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: break, Your Honor,

708
02:06:41,100 --> 02:06:41,240
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: please.

709
02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:48,540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina, kain muna tayo para makahinga at relax kayo. Sige po.

710
02:06:48,540 --> 02:06:50,300
Gina F. Acosta: Mas better po, attorney. Ay,

711
02:06:50,360 --> 02:07:01,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Okay lang po, ma'am. Huwag kayong mag-alala dun. Pahinga muna kayo. Kain tayo. The court will declare a lunch recess. We shall resume at 12.45.

712
02:54:16,370 --> 02:54:16,910
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Trial

713
02:54:16,910 --> 02:54:30,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is resumed. For the information of the counsel for the parties, we shall only be holding trial given the inclement weather until 2 p.m. this afternoon and we shall convene session according to the Senate President

714
02:54:30,890 --> 02:54:32,550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: at

715
02:54:33,700 --> 02:54:43,200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 2.30 p.m. So kindly be aware of the time, Atty. Ligutan, and if at all we reach cross, kindly be aware of the time.

716
02:54:45,640 --> 02:54:54,260
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina? Patuloy po kayo magtetestigo sa ilalim ng pareho niyong pinanumpaan kanina. Naunawaan niyo po iyon? Opo,

717
02:54:54,300 --> 02:54:54,840
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor.

718
02:54:55,220 --> 02:54:57,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay. Atty. Ligutan, your witness.

719
02:54:58,520 --> 02:54:59,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hello.

720
02:55:09,520 --> 02:55:58,130
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Marami Tess, now, kanina nabanggit mo na si Colonel La Chica yung nagbibigay sa iyo ng inputs. Ano yung isusulat sa plano? at saka sa liquidation saka accomplishment reports. Kanina rin, the record will bear me out, in fact, nasabi mo rin, na siya rin yung may alam sa pag-i-implement ng mga sinasabi nyong confidential activities na pinagagamitan ng confidential funds. Now, yung tanong now is, Ma'am, empleyado ba, empleyado ba ng Office of the Vice President si Colonel Achica?

721
02:55:59,490 --> 02:56:05,790
Gina F. Acosta: Siya po ang itinalaga na security officer ng Office of the Vice President, Your Honor.

722
02:56:07,910 --> 02:56:09,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung tanong, I think, is simple.

723
02:56:10,230 --> 02:56:28,790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina, pag sinabi niyong security, sagot niyo po kanina, siya ang commanding officer ng VPSPG. Sinabi niyo rin po na siya ang security officer ng OVP. Meron po ba siyang appointment at sweldong tinatanggap bilang security officer ng OVP? Wala po.

724
02:56:29,480 --> 02:56:39,480
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi ko po alam, Your Honor, kung may sahod po siya. Pero ang alam ko, meron po siyang office order na siya po ang security officer ng Office of the Vice President. Okay.

725
02:56:39,620 --> 02:56:40,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your witness, counsel?

726
02:56:41,000 --> 02:56:54,060
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I think the question is simple, ma'am. Sa alam niyo, sa pagkakaalam niyo, I'm not asking ano yung designation niya. I think you are more than competent to answer this question.

727
02:56:55,780 --> 02:57:01,710
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Impliyado ba ng Office of the Vice President? Si Colonel Achica.

728
02:57:01,910 --> 02:57:02,890
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Asking and answered, Your Honor.

729
02:57:03,880 --> 02:57:04,360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No

730
02:57:04,360 --> 02:57:07,470
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: answer yet. Witness will answer, please.

731
02:57:10,870 --> 02:57:12,230
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung alam niyo po, ma'am.

732
02:57:13,100 --> 02:57:18,080
Gina F. Acosta: Ang alam ko po, siya po ang security officer, Your Honor. Yung lang po, ang alam ko.

733
02:57:19,750 --> 02:57:24,890
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That was his answer, counsel. Her answer, rather. Alright, now. Madam

734
02:57:24,890 --> 02:57:39,750
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Witness, I'm showing you now yung isang letter. Galing sa office of the Vice President, May Pichang, November 30, 2023. Pirmado ng isang Lemuel Ortonio.

735
02:57:41,010 --> 02:57:41,650
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: We

736
02:57:41,650 --> 02:57:47,910
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: are confronting you with the documents through authority and the letter is also being shown on our screen.

737
02:57:49,450 --> 02:57:50,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Assistant

738
02:57:50,090 --> 02:57:51,190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Councils may approach.

739
02:57:53,970 --> 02:57:55,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, kindly

740
02:58:04,530 --> 02:58:06,150
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: zoom in to the relevant person.

741
02:58:06,390 --> 02:58:06,770
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay.

742
02:58:08,970 --> 02:58:10,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: According to this letter, ma'am,

743
02:58:13,100 --> 02:58:15,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: November 30, 2023.

744
02:58:17,710 --> 02:58:23,730
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Nakasulat dyan na as early as July 2022,

745
02:58:25,930 --> 02:58:46,110
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: yung OVP nakapag-identify na ng mga programa tsaka surveillance activities na sinasabi dyan intertwined with matters of national security. Yung letter is dated November 30, 2023.

746
02:58:48,860 --> 02:58:59,590
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pero nakasulat dyan as early as July 2022, nakapag-identify ng mga programa. Aware ka ba sa letter na ito?

747
02:59:04,380 --> 02:59:05,180
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no?

748
02:59:19,240 --> 02:59:20,160
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Aware ka hindi?

749
02:59:20,920 --> 02:59:21,860
Gina F. Acosta: Aware po ako,

750
02:59:22,000 --> 02:59:22,420
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor. Now,

751
02:59:22,440 --> 02:59:36,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: in fact, aware ka rin na itong letter na ito, ito yung tugon, reply ng OVP through Ortonio sa Audit Observation Memorandum. Aware ka rin yan, di ba?

752
02:59:36,620 --> 02:59:37,900
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Now,

753
02:59:37,920 --> 02:59:59,720
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: based sa letter na ito ma'am, programs at surveillance activities na sinasabi niyo intertwined with national security, eh sinasabi niyo na-identify na as early as July 2022 and you will agree with me ma'am eh kung July pa lang 2022.

754
03:00:22,630 --> 03:00:24,030
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your

755
03:00:25,380 --> 03:00:26,780
Gina F. Acosta: Honor,

756
03:00:28,840 --> 03:00:29,660
Gina F. Acosta: saan po dito

757
03:00:31,590 --> 03:00:36,000
Gina F. Acosta: Sinabi mo na activities, Your Honor?

758
03:00:36,440 --> 03:00:45,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, nasa screen. These programs, program goals are indistricably intertwined with matters of national security.

759
03:00:46,700 --> 03:00:47,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: July

760
03:00:47,280 --> 03:00:48,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 22. Assistant counsel, kindly point it out

761
03:00:48,960 --> 03:00:49,580
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: on page 2.

762
03:00:51,010 --> 03:00:51,810
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Page 2.

763
03:00:52,250 --> 03:00:53,710
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly point it out to the witness.

764
03:00:55,780 --> 03:00:57,560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What counsel is referring to?

765
03:01:18,800 --> 03:01:20,900
Gina F. Acosta: Sir, ano po yung question? Yung

766
03:01:20,900 --> 03:01:40,680
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: tanong now is, hindi ba dapat? Isinama niyo ito, yung mga sinasabi niyo mga specific activities sa physical and financial plan for the fourth quarter 2022 which is dated December 13, 2022. Isinama niyo ba yan?

767
03:01:41,650 --> 03:01:44,270
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Argumentative, Your Honor.

768
03:01:45,190 --> 03:01:51,330
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Repraise, counsel. I get the point of the objection of the counsel. Sustained. Okay, now.

769
03:01:51,980 --> 03:01:52,620
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi

770
03:01:52,620 --> 03:01:53,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: po ba?

771
03:01:54,930 --> 03:02:07,230
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Those should have been reflected in the physical and financial plan for the fourth part of 2022. Same objection, Your Honor.

772
03:02:09,970 --> 03:02:28,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina, bakit di niyo po sinama yung mga bagay na yan doon sa physical and financial plan ng 2022? Kung Julyo pa lang, may ganyan na pala, bakit hindi niyo po yan sinama? Sa 2022 physical and financial plan.

773
03:02:30,510 --> 03:02:31,050
Gina F. Acosta: Sir,

774
03:02:32,440 --> 03:02:44,030
Gina F. Acosta: ito po ba yung target property alleviation treats to peace and order and the promotion of economic development po?

775
03:02:44,690 --> 03:03:14,640
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Counsel? I think the public knows whether the witnesses answered the question or not. I will move on, Your Honor, please. Move forward, Counsel. Thank you. Now, Madam. Let's go to this cash encashment for the check-in cashment para sa 2022 Confidential Funds. Now, pinapakita sa iyo ngayon yung isang cheque, May-Pechang, December 20, 2022.

776
03:03:16,310 --> 03:03:33,690
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay? As well as yung nasa likod ng checking iyan. Okay? Yung checking yan has been previously marked as Exhibit PI-28, small letter A, and PI-28, small letter A-1.

777
03:03:35,910 --> 03:03:52,740
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung tanong, you personally encashed, ikaw mismo yung nag-encash ng 125 million pesos cash advance ng confidential funds noong December 20, 2022, correct?

778
03:03:53,860 --> 03:03:55,000
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, sir.

779
03:03:56,010 --> 03:04:07,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: And then, ma'am, na-encash mo yan only pagkatapos yung cheque maibigay sa iyo. Tama po ba?

780
03:04:08,620 --> 03:04:09,480
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, sir.

781
03:04:10,860 --> 03:04:17,900
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tanong, kailan ba na-encash yung cheque nito? Diba, December 20, 2022?

782
03:04:19,150 --> 03:04:19,990
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, sir.

783
03:04:20,390 --> 03:04:33,110
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: And hindi po ba, bago ma-release yung cheque sa iyo, Yung checking iyan, kailangan munang i-prepara at saka dapat pirmado ng chief accountant. Tama po ba?

784
03:04:34,400 --> 03:04:35,660
Gina F. Acosta: Ah, nag-perma po?

785
03:04:35,940 --> 03:04:46,120
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: No, ma'am. The question is, tama po ba na bago nyo ma-relate, bago nyo natanggap yung checking, yung checking iyan, kailangan i-prepare muna at saka pirmahan.

786
03:04:48,020 --> 03:04:48,420
Gina F. Acosta: I

787
03:04:48,420 --> 03:04:50,020
Gina F. Acosta: -prepare po ng accountant po.

788
03:04:50,140 --> 03:05:10,360
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes. Okay now. And of course, madam, yung checking iyan, Naprepare lang, napirmahan lang, na-release sa'yo lang only after the required disbursement voucher had been signed and approved. Tama po ba?

789
03:05:12,430 --> 03:05:13,170
Gina F. Acosta: Opo.

790
03:05:13,670 --> 03:05:27,310
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: If you can remember, ma'am, yung disbursement voucher napirmahan tsaka na-approved same day, December 20, 2022. Tama po ba?

791
03:05:32,120 --> 03:05:37,120
Gina F. Acosta: Yung date ng voucher at saka date ng cheque. On

792
03:05:37,120 --> 03:05:37,680
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the same day?

793
03:05:39,010 --> 03:05:40,730
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, sir.

794
03:05:41,150 --> 03:05:58,730
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In fact, yun yung disbursement voucher dated December 20, 2022, Exhibit P, I-10A. Now, yung voucher na iyan, firmado ng VP Sara Duterte, Julieta Villadil Rey, tsaka Lemuel Ortonio. Tama po ba?

795
03:06:02,000 --> 03:06:05,800
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, di ko ma... Mabasa yung after my name

796
03:06:05,800 --> 03:06:07,620
Gina F. Acosta: kung orto

797
03:06:07,620 --> 03:06:07,800
Gina F. Acosta: niyo

798
03:06:07,800 --> 03:06:07,920
Gina F. Acosta: po

799
03:06:07,920 --> 03:06:08,420
Gina F. Acosta: ayon.

800
03:06:09,020 --> 03:06:13,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly furnish Gina a copy of the disbursement voucher.

801
03:06:14,040 --> 03:06:16,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: It's in her possession at the moment, Your Honor, please.

802
03:06:18,600 --> 03:06:19,160
Gina F. Acosta: Voucher.

803
03:06:20,540 --> 03:06:24,120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Disbursement voucher for the last quarter of 2022, Ma'am Gina.

804
03:06:31,260 --> 03:06:43,720
Gina F. Acosta: Claro po yung perma dito. Ang maklaro ko lang dito, Your Honor, is may perma po, signature, and then may perma po dito ng accountant namin.

805
03:06:44,160 --> 03:06:44,840
Gina F. Acosta: Pero

806
03:06:44,840 --> 03:06:49,260
Gina F. Acosta: yung sa gitna, hindi po kasi claro dito, Your Honor.

807
03:06:50,050 --> 03:06:50,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Move on,

808
03:06:51,050 --> 03:07:17,460
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: counsel. Now, madam, yung disbursement voucher, yung pag-pre-prepare, pag-peperma, tsaka pag-re-release ng cheque, yung date ng cheque, tsaka yung pag-i-incast ng cheque, they all happened on the same day, December 20, 2022. Tama po ba?

809
03:07:17,820 --> 03:07:19,600
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

810
03:07:19,740 --> 03:07:24,620
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: How much was the amount incast on that day? 125 million pesos, di po ba?

811
03:07:25,020 --> 03:07:25,800
Gina F. Acosta: Yes po.

812
03:07:26,080 --> 03:07:30,840
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You incast this cheque sa Land Bank Shaw Boulevard Branch. Tama po ba?

813
03:07:31,500 --> 03:07:32,380
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, po.

814
03:07:32,540 --> 03:08:06,970
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, listen to this question now. For unusual amounts like 125 million pesos, yung bangko kailangan inotify, manotify yung bangko isang araw minimum or at least two days before ma-encash yung cheque para ma-prepare, maihanda yung cash. Ito yung na-mention ni Ms. Violeta Constantino. Then, Department Manager ng Land Bank Show Boulevard, when she testified, do you confirm this practice? Objection,

815
03:08:06,970 --> 03:08:07,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. What's

816
03:08:07,810 --> 03:08:08,170
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the objection?

817
03:08:09,480 --> 03:08:15,400
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: The question is misleading, Your Honor. There's no testimony as to unusual amount, Your Honor.

818
03:08:15,980 --> 03:08:18,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There was, counsel. There was. There was, counsel. Not by

819
03:08:18,740 --> 03:08:19,620
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: the witness, Your Honor.

820
03:08:19,880 --> 03:08:24,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not by this witness, but by the Land Bank Executive.

821
03:08:25,990 --> 03:08:31,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay. Hindi po ba? Kailangan mo notify muna yung bangko a

822
03:08:31,200 --> 03:08:35,560
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: day or two? May we ask the prosecution to repeat the question, Your Honor? I think

823
03:08:35,560 --> 03:08:37,380
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: there was a ruling. If

824
03:08:37,380 --> 03:08:46,940
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: she knows. Yes. Ma'am Gina, kayo po ba yung nag-i-inform sa bangko o may kailangan po ba mag-i-inform sa bangko na mag-i-withdraw kayo ng ganito kalaking pera?

825
03:08:48,060 --> 03:09:02,050
Gina F. Acosta: Ganito po, Your Honor. Nang handa na po ang cheque, tumawag po ang aming cast division. Now, ma'am Gina, handa na po ang cheque at pwede mo nang ipaincast sa bangko.

826
03:09:03,530 --> 03:09:12,490
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Not responsive? Okay. Now, continue counsel. Now, by what time did you go to land bank? On December 20, 2022?

827
03:09:13,650 --> 03:09:20,230
Gina F. Acosta: Mga around 2 to 2.30, nakaabot din to, Your Honor.

828
03:09:20,530 --> 03:09:23,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 2 to 2.30, hindi 3 p.m.?

829
03:09:24,010 --> 03:09:26,150
Gina F. Acosta: Mga ganyan na, Your Honor. Your Honor, witness

830
03:09:26,150 --> 03:09:39,060
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: already answered. Wait, wait, time to clarify because that's what he said in the hearing. Anyway, so it's 2, 2.30 and then when confronted with another option, 3pm, yung sagot mo, mga ganyan. So it includes 3pm. Tama po ba?

831
03:09:39,660 --> 03:09:44,260
Gina F. Acosta: Basta, naabot ko dito, Your Honor, mga 2 to 2.30. Alright,

832
03:09:44,880 --> 03:10:00,050
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: now, by the time you arrived at the bank on December 20, 2022, yung 125 million pesos in cash, Nakahanda na, di po ba, for your withdrawal?

833
03:10:01,910 --> 03:10:11,770
Gina F. Acosta: Sa pagkaalam ko, nakahanda na kasi tumawag po ang aming cash division, Your Honor, na kunin ko na ang cheque at pwede na ding ipain-cash sa bangko. Yes.

834
03:10:12,050 --> 03:10:32,910
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ibig sabihin, at least, nanotify ng opisina nyo yung land bank a day before December 20, 2022 na mag-i-cash kayo ng gandong kahalaking Halaga, 125 million pesos sa araw na iyan, December 20, 2022. Tama po ba?

835
03:10:34,720 --> 03:10:36,000
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

836
03:10:36,080 --> 03:10:39,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tama po. Now, meaning, yung

837
03:10:42,380 --> 03:10:55,890
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: land bank na-notify na, na ihanda yung 125 million pesos bago pa man ma

838
03:10:57,400 --> 03:11:12,430
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: -aprubahan ang disbursement voucher bago pa man maihanda. Matirmahan, tsaka marilis ang cheque sa inyo.

839
03:11:33,880 --> 03:11:38,000
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: about informing the bank before the voucher or checks were prepared.

840
03:11:38,260 --> 03:11:40,420
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, anyways, Your Honor, please, we'll move to the next points.

841
03:11:43,160 --> 03:11:48,700
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Voucher was signed, prepared, check was signed, prepared, released to you on the same day.

842
03:11:50,520 --> 03:11:52,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So, hindi ba iyon?

843
03:11:54,420 --> 03:11:56,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pagfa-fast-track.

844
03:11:58,400 --> 03:12:05,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pagfa-fast-track na pag-iin-cash ng 125 million pesos. on the same day.

845
03:12:05,180 --> 03:12:07,660
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Vague and argumentative.

846
03:12:09,180 --> 03:12:11,680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Overruled. Witness may answer. Court would like to know her answer.

847
03:12:14,330 --> 03:12:16,630
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi ba minadali?

848
03:12:18,340 --> 03:12:26,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung pagdi-disbursement voucher, pag-premipara ng cheque, pag-i-encash, on the same day, 125,000,000 pesos. Yes or no?

849
03:12:27,210 --> 03:12:31,270
Gina F. Acosta: Dumaan po siya sa regular na proseso namin sa office, Your Honor.

850
03:12:32,150 --> 03:12:44,120
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Being vague again. Now. As the SDO and Project Accountable Officer, hindi po ba na yung pagmamadaling yan, ikaw yung nag-utos yan? Tama po ba?

851
03:12:44,320 --> 03:12:46,640
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po ako nag-utos, Your Honor. Okay.

852
03:12:47,320 --> 03:12:49,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sino ang nag-utos sa inyo?

853
03:12:49,620 --> 03:12:53,740
Gina F. Acosta: Basta gi-process po yun, Your Honor, on a regular processing po, Your Honor.

854
03:12:54,180 --> 03:13:26,120
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma'am, ma'am, I think I have to repeat the question, Your Honor, because she did not answer the question. Minadali? May nag-utos? When asked, sino nag-utos? Sabi mo, hindi ikaw. I will ask this question again. Yung publiko are very much waiting for an answer. Sino ang nag-utos ng pagmamadali, ng pag-incash, ng checking yan, 125 million sa araw na yan?

855
03:13:26,380 --> 03:13:32,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Objection, Your Honor. Misleading. Objection is sustained again, counsel. There is no basis...

856
03:13:54,540 --> 03:14:11,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pagkatapos ma-verify ng bank teller, yung identification at saka pagkatapos i-approve yung pag-i-incast ng checking iyan, di po ba you were instructed na magpunta sa backroom ng bangko? Objection,

857
03:14:11,950 --> 03:14:17,030
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor. Misleading, Your Honor. The witness hasn't testified yet. I'm asking for confirmation. It

858
03:14:17,030 --> 03:14:24,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may be leading but it's okay to ask leading questions because this was testified to by another witness from land banks that she went to the backroom.

859
03:14:25,530 --> 03:14:41,050
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Just to clarify, Your Honor, the objection is grounded that it is misleading, Your Honor, because there's no testimony yet that any bank teller verified, Your Honor. There's no testimony yet from the witness, Your Honor.

860
03:14:41,410 --> 03:15:06,410
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No testimony. He is asking the witness on the basis of the testimony given before the court council by a land bank official that Gina and... If I recall correctly, Colonel Latsika and Ortonio went to the back room of the bank. And the bank officer, in fact, if I remember correctly, testified that there was a door leading to the exit.

861
03:15:09,530 --> 03:15:09,950
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To

862
03:15:10,040 --> 03:15:17,920
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: another exit. Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor. That pertains to DepEd Council. Your Honor, that

863
03:15:17,920 --> 03:15:26,780
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: may be the case, Your Honor, but it hasn't yet testified by the witness. With due respect to the prosecution, the proper basis must be laid, Your Honor.

864
03:15:27,900 --> 03:15:41,960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Modify, modify, modify for this one, counsel. I stand corrected with respect to the backdoor testimony that it connected to DepEd. I distinctly remember that. Not with the OVP. I stand corrected. Backroom, backroom, Your Honor. I'm asking

865
03:15:41,960 --> 03:15:54,480
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: for the backroom now. Is it it? Is it it? Okay. In that afternoon, you were instructed... to the back room of the bank. Di po ba?

866
03:15:55,230 --> 03:15:58,330
Gina F. Acosta: Ano po yun? Back room, bank

867
03:15:58,330 --> 03:16:01,390
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: room. Back room po, back room.

868
03:16:01,530 --> 03:16:03,670
Gina F. Acosta: Sorry po, sorry po, sir. It's

869
03:16:03,670 --> 03:16:04,170
Gina F. Acosta: okay. Sorry

870
03:16:04,170 --> 03:16:04,350
Gina F. Acosta: po.

871
03:16:04,430 --> 03:16:08,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Attorney Ligudan, kwarto sa likod o banyo? Kwarto sa likod.

872
03:16:10,090 --> 03:16:12,850
Gina F. Acosta: Wala pong kwarto sa likod, Your Honor. Okay,

873
03:16:12,930 --> 03:16:16,940
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: okay. Okay now. The question is simple.

874
03:16:20,240 --> 03:16:30,540
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Saan nyo nakita? yung 125 million pesos na in-cash niyo sa araw na iyon sa loob ng bangko.

875
03:16:31,360 --> 03:16:33,980
Gina F. Acosta: Doon po sa may likod niyang, Taylor, Your Honor.

876
03:16:34,280 --> 03:16:36,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, now. Sa likod ng...

877
03:16:36,520 --> 03:16:37,440
Gina F. Acosta: Open space po.

878
03:16:37,800 --> 03:16:39,400
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay. Sa likod ng...

879
03:16:39,400 --> 03:16:40,320
Gina F. Acosta: Taylor.

880
03:16:40,740 --> 03:16:51,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Taylor. Now, ma'am, can you describe for us, to give us a mental picture, how big the pile?

881
03:16:54,140 --> 03:16:58,480
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 125 million pesos in cold cash is.

882
03:17:04,050 --> 03:17:05,290
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ipa-describe.

883
03:17:12,430 --> 03:17:38,380
Gina F. Acosta: Sorry, Sir, ha? Pero hindi kaya ko well-versed sa mga measure-measurement. Pero nakasulod siya sa nakalagay siya sa box na nakabandal tag 1 million ang isa kabandal na nakaputos, nakabalot. o xilophen na xilyo pa, xilyado pa.

884
03:17:38,900 --> 03:17:56,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sinasabi mo ma'am, hindi ka well-versed sa measurement. Tama po ba? Di ba? Now, I will show you a simulated representation of 125 million pesos. Sinabi mo 1,000 peso bill, di ba? Show that to the screen, please.

885
03:17:57,550 --> 03:17:58,290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm sorry.

886
03:18:05,620 --> 03:18:07,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You tell the public, ma'am.

887
03:18:08,970 --> 03:18:19,970
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: If yung nakita mong 125 million pesos in cold cash, Your Honor, Wait, wait, wait, natin dyan, natin dyan, natin dyan.

888
03:18:20,090 --> 03:18:22,210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, to finish the question, Atty.

889
03:18:23,980 --> 03:18:24,540
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Bacuel,

890
03:18:24,560 --> 03:18:31,020
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Can you please confirm if the cold cash you

891
03:18:31,020 --> 03:18:33,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: saw,

892
03:18:35,400 --> 03:18:41,030
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 125 million pesos, do they look like that?

893
03:18:41,740 --> 03:18:55,240
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, before the prosecution proceeds with the question, may we just ask as to the source of the photo and how it was generated and produced?

894
03:18:55,520 --> 03:19:00,900
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel, either it is distorted because the 1,000 peso bills look bigger.

895
03:19:02,320 --> 03:19:04,220
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Is this AI, Your Honor?

896
03:19:04,540 --> 03:19:06,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, of course, that is simulated.

897
03:19:08,180 --> 03:19:08,760
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Is

898
03:19:08,760 --> 03:19:19,190
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: this AI? because we don't have 125 million pesos in cold cash. So we have to resort to technology.

899
03:19:20,250 --> 03:19:26,210
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Is that, Your Honor, artificial intelligence? Is this AI? Yes. Generated? Yes.

900
03:19:26,890 --> 03:19:35,190
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, if you will allow the presiding officer. Ma'am Gina, sabi niyo nakalagay po sa kahon tigi isan libong bundle. Ilang kahon po?

901
03:19:36,840 --> 03:19:38,140
Gina F. Acosta: Dalawa, Your Honor.

902
03:19:38,620 --> 03:19:40,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Gaano kalaki po yung kahon?

903
03:19:44,080 --> 03:19:45,220
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Limitin niyo po yung kamay niyo.

904
03:19:47,940 --> 03:19:48,900
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Gano'ng kataas po?

905
03:19:50,890 --> 03:19:51,870
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Gano'ng kataas?

906
03:19:53,850 --> 03:19:54,770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Gano'ng kataas po?

907
03:19:59,350 --> 03:20:07,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung kamay niyo po sa baba, pakipat yan para makita po namin. Ganyan kataas at ganito kalapad? Kasing lapad po ng witness stand?

908
03:20:12,190 --> 03:20:15,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 125 million po yan. Dalawang kahong ganyan.

909
03:20:15,730 --> 03:20:16,750
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

910
03:20:17,450 --> 03:20:20,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Binilang niyo po ba? Tinanggal niyo po ba mula sa kahon? O hindi na?

911
03:20:21,520 --> 03:20:23,300
Gina F. Acosta: Tinanggal po sa kahon, Your Honor.

912
03:20:24,300 --> 03:20:26,380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pagkatanggal niyo sa kahon, binilig niyo ba sa kahon?

913
03:20:26,640 --> 03:20:27,860
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po, Your Honor.

914
03:20:28,300 --> 03:20:29,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Saan niyo na nilagay?

915
03:20:30,260 --> 03:20:33,140
Gina F. Acosta: Nilagay ko po sa aking apat na bag.

916
03:20:34,060 --> 03:20:35,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ito po yung daffle bag.

917
03:20:36,160 --> 03:20:38,940
Gina F. Acosta: Parang traveling bag po, Your Honor, na oblong.

918
03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:41,200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Traveling bag, apat pong gano'n?

919
03:20:41,560 --> 03:20:43,220
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Okay.

920
03:20:43,560 --> 03:20:44,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Procedure,

921
03:20:44,120 --> 03:20:45,200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Witness, Counsel.

922
03:20:45,200 --> 03:21:06,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sinabi mo, ma'am, na iyong 125 million pesos naka-bundle. into 1,000 peso bills. Sa isa kang bundle is 1 million pesos. Again, para sa ating mga kababayan na hindi pa nakakita, how does a 1 million buy this? Counsel, is that an actual

923
03:21:06,080 --> 03:21:07,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: thing again or a reproduction?

924
03:21:08,300 --> 03:21:08,900
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Reproduction.

925
03:21:10,120 --> 03:21:11,040
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor.

926
03:21:12,250 --> 03:21:38,330
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Yes, while you're showing the witness, Attorney Bachel. May we just interpose an objection as regards presenting the witness those props, Your Honor, inasmuch as the parties are uncertain, the defense is uncertain as to how is that an accurate representation of what the prosecution claims to be, Your Honor.

927
03:21:38,570 --> 03:21:40,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I will ask. I will ask the question, Your Honor, please.

928
03:21:42,580 --> 03:21:49,290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before I rule on the objection, yes, counsel, ask your question. and kindly don't cover Ms. Gina.

929
03:21:50,570 --> 03:21:51,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I'm

930
03:21:51,090 --> 03:21:51,130
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: so

931
03:21:51,130 --> 03:21:51,490
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sorry.

932
03:21:53,360 --> 03:21:53,880
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ma

933
03:21:53,880 --> 03:22:15,990
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 'am, sinabi mo, yung 125 billion pesos nakapile by 1 million peso each, tama po ba? Opo. And then, yung bills ginamit is 1,000. Tama po ba? Sinabi mo, hindi ka well-versed sa measurement. Doon sabi mo, di ba? Kaya nga, eto yung simulated.

934
03:22:18,630 --> 03:22:35,190
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ten bundles. The size is similar to 1,000 peso bills. Ma'am, yung isang milyon, pwede niyo pong hawakan if you want. If you want lang, ha? May lagi dagal, ma'am, ha? Now.

935
03:22:38,180 --> 03:22:41,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung 1,000,000 pesos, kamukha ba ng

936
03:22:43,530 --> 03:22:44,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: isang bundle na ito?

937
03:22:45,230 --> 03:22:52,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor. Wait, wait. Is that your question, Atty. Higutan? Yes. Yes, Atty. Bagel.

938
03:22:53,090 --> 03:23:19,970
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we manifest that upon the examination of assisting counsel, these appear to be just blue-colored lengthwise papers wrapped in plastic with 10 bundles each. How is this an accurate representation of... The size of whatever the prosecution claims to be, Your Honor, they are yet to lay the proper basis as regards this, Your Honor.

939
03:23:19,970 --> 03:23:31,790
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel claims it's a mere simulation. If that is an objection, counsel, I will have to overrule the objection. Witness will please answer. Ma'am, parang ganyan po ba yung bundle ng tigay isang libong pinitraw ninyo?

940
03:23:34,070 --> 03:23:41,680
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, may I know po kung ito po ay... Is this...

941
03:23:44,090 --> 03:23:48,010
Gina F. Acosta: 100,000? Yes. Is this 100,000?

942
03:23:48,330 --> 03:23:51,770
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sa pagkakaalala niyo po kung tagi isang libo po yan.

943
03:23:51,970 --> 03:23:52,490
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes.

944
03:23:52,690 --> 03:24:03,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sampung bundle ng tagi isang libo na ang kabuhuan ay isang milyon sa isang balot ng plastic. Ganyan po ba yung itsura ng inyong winidraw? Yung bundle po ha, yung bundle.

945
03:24:04,730 --> 03:24:09,830
Gina F. Acosta: Basta nakabalot lang po siya ng silupin, Your Honor, tapos binilang po namin.

946
03:24:10,030 --> 03:24:10,370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am, when you

947
03:24:10,370 --> 03:24:12,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: say silupin, plastic. Plastic.

948
03:24:12,410 --> 03:24:14,090
Gina F. Acosta: Ito, ito, Your Honor.

949
03:24:14,370 --> 03:24:15,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kaya nga, so ganyan po yung size. Oo,

950
03:24:16,030 --> 03:24:17,470
Gina F. Acosta: nakasilyo po, Your Honor.

951
03:24:17,890 --> 03:24:19,550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Bagong pera po ba, lumang pera?

952
03:24:20,090 --> 03:24:21,530
Gina F. Acosta: Bagong pera po, Your Honor.

953
03:24:22,370 --> 03:24:32,520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay, so mga ganyan nga po yung size. Yun lang ang tinatanong sa inyo ni Attorney Ligutan. Huwag natin pag-usapan yung bigat, yung hugis. We'll go into the weight later.

954
03:24:35,820 --> 03:24:36,780
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Halos ganyan po ba?

955
03:24:37,840 --> 03:24:41,600
Gina F. Acosta: Ganito po, Your Honor. Basta nakabalut po siya ng silupin.

956
03:24:41,600 --> 03:24:47,830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am, kayo naman. Makita niyo naman kung halos parehas eh. Para halos parehas mo ba? Yan lang ganun kasimple yung tanaw.

957
03:24:49,210 --> 03:24:55,030
Gina F. Acosta: May similarity, Your Honor. May manggot siya. Lapad-lapad man ang kwarta.

958
03:24:55,650 --> 03:25:01,990
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Now, Madam Witness, ilan

959
03:25:04,030 --> 03:25:08,430
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: yan? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1,

960
03:25:09,250 --> 03:25:11,750
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

961
03:25:12,210 --> 03:25:25,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So, 125 of these bundles, correct? Yung nakita niyo sa hapon na iyon, December 20, 2022, tama po ba?

962
03:25:26,560 --> 03:25:27,120
Gina F. Acosta: Yun

963
03:25:27,120 --> 03:25:36,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: yung nakita niyo sa bangko na in-cash ng Office of the Vice President, cash, cold cash, sa hapon na iyon, tama po ba?

964
03:25:37,850 --> 03:25:45,550
Gina F. Acosta: Ano po? 125 million po ito, Your Honor, ang nakita na ko, namang giihap. Gibilang po namin, Your Honor.

965
03:25:48,390 --> 03:25:53,810
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just to clarify, Gina, before Atty. Backel, before I recognize you, bundle count lang po ang ginawa niyo.

966
03:25:55,540 --> 03:25:56,480
Gina F. Acosta: Bundle count po, Your Honor.

967
03:25:56,480 --> 03:25:56,760
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi niyo na

968
03:25:56,760 --> 03:26:01,600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po binuksan yung cellophane na sinasabi niyo, yung plastic, binilang niyo na lang po, 125 yung gano'n.

969
03:26:01,860 --> 03:26:06,080
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi na po, Your Honor. Nakasilyo po kasi, Your Honor.

970
03:26:06,320 --> 03:26:09,720
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, binilang niyo na lang po, 125 na gano'n.

971
03:26:10,080 --> 03:26:10,900
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

972
03:26:10,900 --> 03:26:11,560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi na isa-isa.

973
03:26:13,820 --> 03:26:15,480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi niyo na binilang isa-isa yung bill.

974
03:26:17,030 --> 03:26:17,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung tigil isang libo.

975
03:26:19,260 --> 03:26:19,740
Gina F. Acosta: Atty.

976
03:26:21,520 --> 03:26:25,200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Bakel, yes, what is your comment or objection?

977
03:26:25,200 --> 03:26:36,660
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, may we respectfully ask if the props could already be removed, Your Honor, as it's not necessary for the testimony of the witness.

978
03:26:36,900 --> 03:26:40,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: It is, Your Honor. Are you done yet with that, with your civilization counsel?

979
03:26:40,980 --> 03:26:41,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Not yet, Your

980
03:26:41,200 --> 03:26:42,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor. Not yet. Okay.

981
03:26:43,120 --> 03:26:43,600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wind

982
03:26:43,600 --> 03:26:44,120
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: it up.

983
03:26:44,340 --> 03:26:48,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes. Now, I'm sure, Madam Witness, with your

984
03:27:10,620 --> 03:27:11,240
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your

985
03:27:12,170 --> 03:27:16,050
Gina F. Acosta: Honor, ibig sabihin pa kung sinong kasama ko pagpunta sa bangko?

986
03:27:18,110 --> 03:27:29,690
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sa loob ng bangko, kaharap yung 125 million pesos in cold cash. Sino yung kasama mo from the office of the Vice President kung meron man?

987
03:27:30,170 --> 03:27:55,250
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, before the Vice President may answer, Your Honor, the question of the prosecution is totally unrelated to the use of the props, Your Honor. May we just request, Your Honor, I'm still not finished. May we just respect, the defense respectfully requests, Your Honor, that these be removed until the relevant question is interposed, considering that the witness has the right to be respected as well.

988
03:27:55,250 --> 03:27:55,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wait, wait, wait.

989
03:27:56,010 --> 03:27:56,610
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think I

990
03:27:56,610 --> 03:27:56,830
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: see,

991
03:27:57,170 --> 03:27:57,850
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Bachel,

992
03:27:58,010 --> 03:28:09,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think the court sees, well, Atty. Ligutan is getting to, get to it, Atty. Ligutan. Yes, yes. Okay. Ms. Gina, may kasama po ba kayong ibang tao mula sa OVP noong pinick up niyo yung pera?

993
03:28:10,470 --> 03:28:12,130
Gina F. Acosta: Meron po, Your Honor. Sino

994
03:28:12,130 --> 03:28:12,250
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po?

995
03:28:12,790 --> 03:28:15,990
Gina F. Acosta: Si Asic or Tonyo po, Your Honor. Okay,

996
03:28:16,070 --> 03:28:29,250
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tony Lagutan, Your Witness. Okay, now, walang membro ng VPSPG. Okay, yung kasama niyo, yung Vice Presidential Special Protection Group, kasama niyo sa loob ng bangkong iyan. Tama po ba?

997
03:28:30,240 --> 03:28:37,480
Gina F. Acosta: Wala, Your Honor, pero ang aming driver po ay member po ng VPSPG. Yes,

998
03:28:37,480 --> 03:29:02,030
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ma'am. Now. Even with such large amount of money, hindi niyo naisipan na mag-request ng isang or maraming escorts na sasama sa inyo sa bangko tsaka lalabas with those bills. Tama po ba?

999
03:29:02,510 --> 03:29:04,290
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor. Argumentative.

1000
03:29:06,070 --> 03:29:07,930
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Overruled, counsel. Witness will answer.

1001
03:29:09,740 --> 03:29:14,760
Gina F. Acosta: Ang gisama ko po, Your Honor, nakisuyo po ako, nasamahan po ako ni Asik Ortonio.

1002
03:29:16,240 --> 03:29:20,500
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ortonio lang. Nakiusap ka, nasamahan ka ni Asik Ortonio.

1003
03:29:20,820 --> 03:29:22,780
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. How

1004
03:29:22,780 --> 03:29:29,760
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: did you bring out, out of the bank, that 125 million pesos?

1005
03:29:31,360 --> 03:29:33,900
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, pwede ulitin ang question.

1006
03:29:34,320 --> 03:29:41,770
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, paano niyo inilabas ng banko? Yung 125 billion pesos na iyan.

1007
03:29:42,950 --> 03:29:45,230
Gina F. Acosta: May tumulong po sa akin, Your Honor.

1008
03:29:47,340 --> 03:29:49,820
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay now, sino yung tumulong sa inyo?

1009
03:29:50,140 --> 03:29:53,420
Gina F. Acosta: Yung security ng land bank po, Your Honor. This

1010
03:29:53,420 --> 03:29:58,540
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: is the question now. Okay. Yung 125 billion pesos na iyan.

1011
03:30:00,640 --> 03:30:01,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Did

1012
03:30:01,200 --> 03:30:09,200
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you put it into bags or you brought them out one by one?

1013
03:30:10,450 --> 03:30:12,890
Gina F. Acosta: Nilagay po yun sa apat na bag, Your Honor.

1014
03:30:13,310 --> 03:30:17,950
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Apat na bag. So hindi po hand-carry lang yung bills na yan.

1015
03:30:18,150 --> 03:30:18,930
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi, Your Honor.

1016
03:30:18,930 --> 03:30:37,750
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So now we will give in to what the defense wants, Your Honor, please. Having been satisfied that this person cannot bring out of the bank using her own two hands. These bills, no, we can now. Attorney Jay? Assistant counsel.

1017
03:30:45,980 --> 03:30:53,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Proceed, counsel. Okay, now. You said you put them sa mga traveling bags. Ilang bags? Apat po, diba?

1018
03:30:54,990 --> 03:30:55,910
Gina F. Acosta: Apat, Your Honor.

1019
03:30:56,150 --> 03:31:00,870
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Can you describe to us yung size ng mga traveling bags na ito?

1020
03:31:04,330 --> 03:31:06,610
Gina F. Acosta: Ganito, Your Honor. Paoblong.

1021
03:31:06,850 --> 03:31:07,390
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, now.

1022
03:31:09,130 --> 03:31:19,550
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, paoblong. I will show you now representation of 125 million pesos inside four traveling bags.

1023
03:31:21,350 --> 03:31:22,710
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ito yung tanong now.

1024
03:31:31,570 --> 03:32:02,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, four traveling bags with bills, 1,000 peso bills inside them. Yung hapon na iyon ma'am, maalala niyo ba Miss Gina F. Acosta? kung yung nawithdraw nyo na 125 million pesos na isinilit nyo sa four traveling bags, do they look like this? Before you answer, Gina,

1025
03:32:02,160 --> 03:32:03,020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel,

1026
03:32:03,220 --> 03:32:03,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for respondent?

1027
03:32:03,800 --> 03:32:22,500
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, we interpose the same objection as regards the use of AI-generated imagery, Your Honor, without laying the proper basis as to how it's... It accurately represents what the prosecution claims to be, Your Honor. It has no basis, Your Honor.

1028
03:32:22,600 --> 03:32:49,990
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The court will simply note the objection of counsel. And counsel, the court will also take note of your continuing objection with respect to the use of AI-generated representations of what he is asking the witness about. If it shows closely or not. What bag she used to bring out the 125 million.

1029
03:32:50,450 --> 03:32:50,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: With

1030
03:32:50,970 --> 03:33:03,530
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: your permission, counsel, court will note your continuing objection, the use of AI representations. Thank you, Your Honor. Counsel, witness will please answer. Ma'am Gina, parang ganyan po ba yung apat na bag na pinaglagyan niyo?

1031
03:33:04,870 --> 03:33:10,230
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi ganyan, Your Honor, kasi ang opening niyan is round.

1032
03:33:13,210 --> 03:33:17,390
Gina F. Acosta: Ang sa akin, ang dinala ko po na bag is pa ganun po ang zipper.

1033
03:33:17,830 --> 03:33:23,050
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Buo, pahaba, yung kabuoan ng bag. Okay, number one, yun ang isang pagkakaiba. Kulay?

1034
03:33:24,230 --> 03:33:24,910
Gina F. Acosta: Kulay black.

1035
03:33:25,650 --> 03:33:26,130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pareho.

1036
03:33:28,100 --> 03:33:30,440
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: At apat na bag, kumasa yung 125.

1037
03:33:31,830 --> 03:33:33,210
Gina F. Acosta: Apat po na bag, Your Honor.

1038
03:33:33,650 --> 03:33:33,970
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Okay,

1039
03:33:34,110 --> 03:33:48,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: thank you so much. Ma'am, in putting the bills inside the bag, okay, sino ba yung tumulong? Sa paglalagay ng mga bills, yung 1,000 peso bills sa mga bags na ito, sino yung gumawa niyan?

1040
03:33:49,560 --> 03:33:53,240
Gina F. Acosta: Ako po, Your Honor, ang naglagay ng mga pera sa bag.

1041
03:33:54,200 --> 03:34:02,440
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: May membro pa ng VPSPG na tumulong sa iyo sa paglalagay ng mga bills na iyan sa bag?

1042
03:34:03,040 --> 03:34:04,560
Gina F. Acosta: Wala, Your Honor. How

1043
03:34:04,560 --> 03:34:11,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: long did it take? for you to put all the 125 million pesos into the bags.

1044
03:34:11,660 --> 03:34:13,640
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi ko maalala, Your Honor.

1045
03:34:14,920 --> 03:34:34,160
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Maaalala niyo po ba? Kasi sa'yo kayo naglagay doon. Maaalala niyo po ba gaano ba kabigat yung isang bag containing piles of 1,000 peso bills piled into 1 million each?

1046
03:34:35,170 --> 03:34:36,970
Gina F. Acosta: Basta mabigat po, Your Honor.

1047
03:34:38,810 --> 03:34:43,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: What about 30 kilograms per bag. Kung maalala mo.

1048
03:34:48,930 --> 03:34:51,330
Gina F. Acosta: Di ko exactly maalala, Your Honor.

1049
03:34:51,670 --> 03:34:57,530
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright. Ikaw ba ay nagkarga ng isa sa mga four bags na ito?

1050
03:34:58,010 --> 03:35:00,370
Gina F. Acosta: Wala, Your Honor. So,

1051
03:35:00,370 --> 03:35:01,430
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sino yung nagkarga?

1052
03:35:02,270 --> 03:35:12,130
Gina F. Acosta: Bali, ganito po. Ang pera ay nandiyo na sa lahat na pinanailagay na po sa apat

1053
03:35:12,130 --> 03:35:12,510
Gina F. Acosta: na bag.

1054
03:35:15,940 --> 03:35:26,110
Gina F. Acosta: Sa diyang onawal na ilabas ko na po, Your Honor, tumulong po sa akin ang dalawang security guard, Your Honor, ginano nila, Your Honor,

1055
03:35:26,930 --> 03:35:28,490
Gina F. Acosta: papunta sa

1056
03:35:28,490 --> 03:35:39,750
Gina F. Acosta: entrance ng bangko, kung saan, naghintay po ang aming sasakyan, Your Honor. Tapos ako, Your Honor, nagsunod, nagtanaw sa duwaka security, Your Honor.

1057
03:35:40,010 --> 03:35:44,530
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright, now, what about Libel Ortonio? Ano ba yung ginawa niya kung meron man?

1058
03:35:46,420 --> 03:35:56,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sa paglalabas ng four bags containing 125 million pesos in gold cash, may naitulong ba si ginoong Lemuel Ortonio?

1059
03:35:59,370 --> 03:36:00,950
Gina F. Acosta: Wala po, Your Honor.

1060
03:36:01,170 --> 03:36:08,050
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Wala. Again, walang escorts, no request for escort, di po ba?

1061
03:36:09,380 --> 03:36:14,760
Gina F. Acosta: Wala, pero ang amoang driver, Your Honor, is a member of BPSBG.

1062
03:36:15,520 --> 03:36:16,400
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Isang driver?

1063
03:36:17,000 --> 03:36:18,120
Gina F. Acosta: Duhay, Your Honor,

1064
03:36:18,260 --> 03:36:18,560
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: dalawang. Two

1065
03:36:18,560 --> 03:36:27,330
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: drivers. Okay. Aside from these two drivers, yung tanong ko is, aside from the two drivers, walang ibang membro ng BPSPG.

1066
03:36:27,650 --> 03:36:28,610
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: As an answer, Your Honor.

1067
03:36:28,790 --> 03:36:31,570
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: As an answer, counsel. What time did you leave the bank?

1068
03:36:33,110 --> 03:36:33,950
Gina F. Acosta: Ano, Your Honor?

1069
03:36:34,050 --> 03:36:37,290
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Anong oras kayo lumabas ng bangko?

1070
03:36:42,670 --> 03:36:45,390
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi ko exactly maalala, Your Honor.

1071
03:36:45,910 --> 03:36:56,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi mo maalala. Now, galing sa trolley, papunta ng mga sasakyan. Okay? Sino yung nag-transfer ng mga bags na yan?

1072
03:36:57,260 --> 03:37:02,040
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Misleading, Your Honor. There's no testimony as to the trolley. I did hear trolley

1073
03:37:02,040 --> 03:37:02,440
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: as well,

1074
03:37:02,520 --> 03:37:02,760
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: counsel.

1075
03:37:02,780 --> 03:37:02,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I will

1076
03:37:02,980 --> 03:37:14,380
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: reform, Your Honor. Now, sino ba yung nag-transfer galing sa bangko papuntahan sa sasakyan ng

1077
03:37:16,240 --> 03:37:18,780
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: four bags na yan?

1078
03:37:19,340 --> 03:37:20,580
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Ask and answer, Your Honor.

1079
03:37:20,820 --> 03:37:27,100
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Gina, with the indulgence of counsels, sabi niyo wala kayong binuwat sa apat na bag. Tama po.

1080
03:37:28,260 --> 03:37:29,380
Gina F. Acosta: Wala po, Your Honor.

1081
03:37:30,600 --> 03:37:33,420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Wala rin binuhat si Ginong Ortonio sa apat na bag.

1082
03:37:34,100 --> 03:37:35,260
Gina F. Acosta: Wala sab, Your Honor.

1083
03:37:35,440 --> 03:37:38,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ang nagbuhat, dalawang security guard ng bangko.

1084
03:37:38,240 --> 03:37:40,900
Gina F. Acosta: Sila po ang tumulong. Sila, Your Honor.

1085
03:37:41,300 --> 03:37:44,380
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tig dalawang bag ang binuhat nila o may trolley silang ginamit?

1086
03:37:46,150 --> 03:37:53,790
Gina F. Acosta: Di kaya ko ka-remember kung nagamit sila o trolley. Ang ma-remember ko, Your Honor, gi-drag nila ang dua ka bag.

1087
03:37:55,830 --> 03:37:58,210
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dalawang bag kada guard.

1088
03:37:58,620 --> 03:37:59,500
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

1089
03:38:00,060 --> 03:38:01,820
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Isahang labasan yung apat na bag.

1090
03:38:02,160 --> 03:38:08,180
Gina F. Acosta: Sabay po sila, Your Honor, at nandun po ako, Your Honor, nagsunod-sunod sa ilan, nagtanaw, Your Honor. Okay.

1091
03:38:08,360 --> 03:38:23,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your witness, counsel. Now, so, paano ninyo, transfer, dinala, yung four bags na yan galing Land Bank Show Boulevard papunta sa pinuntahan nyo after that?

1092
03:38:24,800 --> 03:38:28,990
Gina F. Acosta: Gisakay. Sinakay sa? Amo ang service, Your Honor? Service.

1093
03:38:29,110 --> 03:38:31,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Pag sinabing service, ibig niyong sabihin, sasakyan.

1094
03:38:32,130 --> 03:38:32,730
Gina F. Acosta: Opo.

1095
03:38:32,850 --> 03:38:34,590
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ilang sasakyan kung meron man?

1096
03:38:35,310 --> 03:38:36,630
Gina F. Acosta: Dalawa, Your Honor. Kaninong

1097
03:38:36,630 --> 03:38:39,850
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: sasakyan yung pinagsidlan, pinagsakyan ng perang iyan?

1098
03:38:40,590 --> 03:38:42,370
Gina F. Acosta: Sa OBP, Your Honor.

1099
03:38:42,470 --> 03:38:49,510
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: OBP. Sumakay ka ba sa similar sa parehong sasakyan together with Lemuel Ortonio?

1100
03:38:50,350 --> 03:38:57,010
Gina F. Acosta: Ako nagsakay sa isang sasakyan, Your Honor. Tapos si Ortonio po nagsakay sa isang sasakyan, Your Honor.

1101
03:38:57,940 --> 03:39:00,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Cal, saan kayo nagpunta after that?

1102
03:39:00,600 --> 03:39:05,980
Gina F. Acosta: Nagpunta po kami sa office po ng OBP.

1103
03:39:06,930 --> 03:39:11,830
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Office of the Vice President. Anong oras kayo dumating doon, if at all?

1104
03:39:13,270 --> 03:39:17,450
Gina F. Acosta: Mga, nakaabot mo dito mga 4 o 4 o 'clock

1105
03:39:17,450 --> 03:39:17,830
Gina F. Acosta: ng konti.

1106
03:39:21,050 --> 03:39:22,890
Gina F. Acosta: 4 plus ng hapon.

1107
03:39:23,450 --> 03:39:34,510
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: 4 plus ng hapon. Who assisted you, kung meron man, in transferring the bags from the cars to the office of the Vice President? Kung meron man.

1108
03:39:35,600 --> 03:39:43,060
Gina F. Acosta: Pagdating ko doon sa Fort Lawyer, Your Honor, sa office po kasi namin, meron pong talagang naka-duty na mga BPSPG.

1109
03:39:43,420 --> 03:39:44,020
Gina F. Acosta: So,

1110
03:39:44,120 --> 03:40:02,910
Gina F. Acosta: naka-arrive na kami sa Fort Lawyer, Your Honor. Open ang car, tapos nakita ng BPSPG na nag-action ako na kunin ang bag. Nakita nila na dili ko kaya. Tumulong po ang dalawang BPSPG, Your Honor,

1111
03:40:03,070 --> 03:40:03,630
Gina F. Acosta: na

1112
03:40:03,630 --> 03:40:23,420
Gina F. Acosta: ang bag makuha doon sa sasakyan, tapos ilagay namin sa trolley. Tapos sakay na kami, Your Honor, sa elevator na hindi tao ang sumasakay. Service elevator, Your Honor. Saan niyo

1113
03:40:23,420 --> 03:40:24,420
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: dinala yung pera?

1114
03:40:25,500 --> 03:40:29,320
Gina F. Acosta: Dinala ko po sa aking extension office, Your Honor.

1115
03:40:29,900 --> 03:40:31,480
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yung four traveling bags?

1116
03:40:32,020 --> 03:40:32,980
Gina F. Acosta: Opo, Your Honor.

1117
03:40:33,020 --> 03:40:47,820
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ito yung tanong now, Madam Witness. Hindi po ba, noong November 25, 2024, Committee on Good Government and Public Accountability hearing, sinabi niyo dun, please show the TSN.

1118
03:40:49,600 --> 03:41:00,020
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That's right after encashment, pagkatapos pong ma-encash yung 125 million pesos, tinawagan mo sino?

1119
03:41:01,660 --> 03:41:03,520
Gina F. Acosta: CSO officer, Your Honor.

1120
03:41:03,780 --> 03:41:05,380
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Colonel Lachika.

1121
03:41:05,640 --> 03:41:06,340
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: To

1122
03:41:06,340 --> 03:41:19,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: quote, sinabi mo dun, you called him and you told him na eto na yung ready na yung 125 million pesos. Tama po ba?

1123
03:41:19,990 --> 03:41:24,990
Gina F. Acosta: Sinabihan ko po siya, Your Honor, na na-encast ko na po ang chike for the confidential funds.

1124
03:41:25,210 --> 03:41:50,940
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, ma'am. Question. Ikaw yung specialist bursing officer. Ikaw yung nag-prepare ng confidential at yung physical financial plan. Hindi mo masabi kung empleyado ba. Hindi mo masagot-sagot yung napakasimpleng tanong kung empleyado ba si Colonel La Chica. The question is, why?

1125
03:41:53,230 --> 03:42:04,880
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Did you have to call Colonel La Chica to inform him? Colonel La Chica, ready na. 125 million pesos. Bakit?

1126
03:42:05,240 --> 03:42:28,390
Gina F. Acosta: Kasi po, may instruction po sa taas, Your Honor, ng aking head of agency na kung ma-encash ko po ang cheque, i-release ko po kay Sir La Chica kinsa ihangi-designate na special officer po. As security officer po sa office of the Vice President, na as I order, Your Honor.

1127
03:42:28,750 --> 03:42:42,670
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, ma'am. Sabi mo, tinawagan mo si Colonel Achica kasi yun yung utos ng head of agency. Siguro sa ating mga kababayan na hindi alam, sino ba?

1128
03:42:45,060 --> 03:43:08,880
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sino ba ang head of agency na nag-utos sa'yo as the special disbursing officer na ibigay? Yung 125 million pesos in cold cash sa isang security officer, Colonel Raymond Dante Lachica.

1129
03:43:11,640 --> 03:43:24,420
Gina F. Acosta: Ang nag-utos po sa akin na i-release ang pera na 125M sa security officer na si Colonel Lachica ay si Ma'am Sara Duterte.

1130
03:43:29,220 --> 03:43:45,070
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You turned over 125 million pesos to Col. La Chica precisely para siya yung mag-disburse ng 125 million pesos for the supposed confidential activities ng Office of the Vice President. Tama po ba?

1131
03:43:45,310 --> 03:43:46,750
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Misleading, Your Honor. What?

1132
03:43:48,800 --> 03:43:50,240
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Why is it misleading, counsel?

1133
03:43:50,520 --> 03:43:59,240
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, the witness has yet to testify on anything but the question. is premised on Your Honor.

1134
03:43:59,860 --> 03:44:11,200
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Overruled, counsel. Witness said that she was instructed by the head of agency, the vice president, to give the money to... Anong word ginamit niya, ma'am? Transfer?

1135
03:44:12,840 --> 03:44:13,400
Gina F. Acosta: Release.

1136
03:44:13,860 --> 03:44:20,520
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Release. To release the money to Colonel Lachica. Proceed, counsel. Now,

1137
03:44:20,600 --> 03:44:48,170
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: hindi po ba na nag-testify ka rin sa November 25, 2024? Committee on Good Government Hearing na binigay mo yung 125 million pesos kay Curly La Chica kasi si La Chica lang yung may alam, siya lang yung may alam on how to implement yung confidential activities. Di po ba?

1138
03:44:50,510 --> 03:44:51,950
Gina F. Acosta: Yes po. Siya po

1139
03:44:51,950 --> 03:45:18,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ang expert. You can explain po later, ma'am. And you only came to know that Colonel La Chica knows how to implement the confidential activities. Nalaban nyo lang na si Colonel La Chica yung may alam paano i-implement yung confidential activities precisely because yun yung sabi sa inyo ni VP Inday Sara Duterte. Tama po ba?

1140
03:45:19,050 --> 03:45:19,950
Gina F. Acosta: Kasi po ang

1141
03:45:19,950 --> 03:45:34,940
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: security. With all due respect po, pupwede pong sagutin ng yes or no without... Explain, explanation. Ma'am, I will allow you. Pero po ba, puwede po bang sagutin po muna? Yes or no? I will allow you to explain.

1142
03:45:36,520 --> 03:45:41,220
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, the witness is answering, Your Honor. May the witness be allowed to finish her answer?

1143
03:45:41,580 --> 03:45:49,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: She already started answering, counsel. Let her answer and you can continue with your direct. Kindly answer. Pakisagot po, Ma'am Gina. Yung katanungan.

1144
03:45:51,460 --> 03:45:54,280
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, may I request to repeat the question, Your Honor?

1145
03:45:54,380 --> 03:45:54,900
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ulit na lang

1146
03:45:54,900 --> 03:45:55,700
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: po, Atty. Niligutan.

1147
03:45:56,790 --> 03:46:08,210
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Nalaman mo na si Colonel La Chica yung may alam paano i-implement yung confidential activities. Kasi nga, yun yung sabi sa inyo ni VP Sara Duterte. Tama po ba?

1148
03:46:10,230 --> 03:46:14,310
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, siya po ang security officer na sinabi ni Vice Presidente.

1149
03:46:14,370 --> 03:46:20,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Alright, now, I'm showing you yung transcript, page 140 this time.

1150
03:46:22,090 --> 03:46:25,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Do we have it? Page 140.

1151
03:46:30,370 --> 03:46:51,790
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tanong sa inyo, Representative Luizo, then why did you give all the money to Colonel La Chica? Yung sagot niyo was because po may utos po ni Ma'am Inday Sara na sa kanya po i-release kasi siya po ang nakakaalam kung paano po i-implement ang mga programs and activities in line po sa confidential activities. You confirm that?

1152
03:46:52,680 --> 03:46:53,680
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor.

1153
03:46:54,040 --> 03:47:11,320
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Madam, since si La Chica yung may alam, paano i-implement yung project? under confidential funds, siya din yung nag-implement ng mga confidential activities. This time, ma'am, hindi na 2022. This time, for 2023, correct?

1154
03:47:13,880 --> 03:47:15,740
Gina F. Acosta: Same question, Your Honor.

1155
03:47:16,080 --> 03:47:40,000
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, I will repeat the question. Siyang sabi mo, ipinabigay ni VP Sara yung pera kay La Chica kasi siya yung may alam paano i-implement yung confidential activities. Okay now, yung tanong is, si Colonel La Chica din. yung nag-implement ng lahat ng confidential activities this time, ma'am, para sa taong 2023. Tama po ba?

1156
03:47:40,260 --> 03:47:41,520
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

1157
03:47:42,040 --> 03:47:42,060
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Tama po.

1158
03:47:42,510 --> 03:48:06,260
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, this is the question now. You will agree that handling tsaka yung pagdi-disperse ng 500 million pesos na pera ng bayan, ma'am, pondo ng bayan,

1159
03:48:08,080 --> 03:48:21,350
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Hindi iyan trabaho ng isang security officer kagaya ni Colonel La Chica. Tama po ba?

1160
03:48:21,970 --> 03:48:22,910
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor.

1161
03:48:23,730 --> 03:48:25,550
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What's the objection? Counsel, what's the objection?

1162
03:48:26,730 --> 03:48:33,110
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Your Honor, the objection is grounded that it's argumentative and it calls for a conclusion, Your Honor.

1163
03:48:33,630 --> 03:48:39,130
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly modify, counsel. It is argumentative. You can modify and get the response you want from the witness. Yes,

1164
03:48:39,130 --> 03:48:54,430
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ma'am. Yes, sir. Now, Madam Witness, hindi po pa na base sa paragraph 3.27 ng Joint Circular 2015. Please flash that one.

1165
03:48:56,180 --> 03:49:32,960
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yun yung trabaho ng isang security officer. refers to a personnel who by reason of his duty or employment has been officially designated to have access to security information. Tanong, andyan ba dyan? Nakasulat na po puwedeng yung isang security officer yung mag-iimplement ng confidential activities tsaka yung mag-de-disperse ng confidential funds ng isang ahensya. like the office of the Vice President.

1166
03:49:33,240 --> 03:49:36,220
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Same objection, Your Honor. Argumentative and calls for a conclusion.

1167
03:49:36,700 --> 03:49:59,160
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: If she knows, counsel, because she answered that she based her actions based on JC 2015-1. Ma'am Gina, pakisagot po yung tanong. Bahagi po ba ng trabaho ng security officer ayon sa Joint Circular ang tumanggap ng confidential at mag-implement ng confidential funds?

1168
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:17,160
Gina F. Acosta: Siya po ang may alam, siya po ang expert to Your Honor sa pagpatupad po ng confidential operation and activities, Your Honor. Kasi siya po ang may access when it comes to national security, Your Honor.

1169
03:50:17,620 --> 03:50:23,960
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ayon po kanino, ma'am? Ayon sa Joint Circular, ayon sa interpretation niyo, o ayon sa utos sa inyo?

1170
03:50:24,860 --> 03:50:27,440
Gina F. Acosta: Ayon po sa Joint Circular, Your Honor.

1171
03:50:28,860 --> 03:50:31,020
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Saan po sa Joint Circular, alam niyo po? At

1172
03:50:31,020 --> 03:50:40,480
Gina F. Acosta: saka ayon po sa utos ng head of agency kasi meron po siyang security officer na order, Your Honor.

1173
03:50:41,040 --> 03:51:14,170
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Counsel, your witness. Of course, iisa-isahin natin yan. Sinabi mo nasa Joint Circular, yung basihan, na po pwede yung security officer, okay, gumamag-disperse ng confidential funds. Ma'am, I will give you. all the time you will need. Basahin. 2015. Circular. Saan dyan? Saan dyan makikita? Yung sinasabi mong puwedeng security officer yung magkasta disbursed ng confidential funds.

1174
03:51:15,080 --> 03:51:53,130
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor, based po sa aking nalalaman sa GC, ako po ang special disbursing officer. Ang gawain ko po, Your Honor, is... to this board. Pero ang pag-implement po ng mga confidential operation activities in related to confidential funds, yan po ay saklaw po sa trabaho po ng isang security officer kasi wala po akong alam. Well, di ako expert to Your Honor sa pagpatupad ng various Confidential activities or operations on the grounds, Your Honor. Okay,

1175
03:51:53,210 --> 03:52:09,580
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I will tailor, I mean, I'll make this narrower. Yung pag-de-disperse, yung pagbabayan, paggagamit ng confidential funds, based sa circular, trabaho ba yan ng isang security officer?

1176
03:52:09,860 --> 03:52:10,780
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: As you answered, Your Honor.

1177
03:52:12,340 --> 03:52:14,980
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Overruled. Overruled. Witness will please answer.

1178
03:52:16,040 --> 03:52:16,800
Gina F. Acosta: Ano po yan?

1179
03:52:16,820 --> 03:52:28,660
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Trabaho po ba ng isang dispersing, ng isang security officer yung paggamit ng confidential funds, pag-disperse ng confidential funds? Trabaho po ba iyan based on circular?

1180
03:52:29,120 --> 03:52:44,910
Gina F. Acosta: Basta ang trabaho ko, Your Honor, ako po ang dispersing officer, Your Honor, ang pagpa-implement po ng various confidential activities in relation po sa confidential funds, Your Honor, ay saklaw po sa trabaho ng security officer, Your Honor, kasi

1181
03:52:44,910 --> 03:52:45,510
Gina F. Acosta: confidential

1182
03:52:45,510 --> 03:52:47,350
Gina F. Acosta: po yun, Your Honor. Ma

1183
03:52:47,350 --> 03:52:57,450
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'am Gina, ang tanong po, trabaho ba ng security officer, gas to send, i-release, i-labas yung confidential fund na dinisverse po ninyo?

1184
03:52:59,010 --> 03:53:01,750
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kung oo po, saan sa joint circular nakalaga yun?

1185
03:53:04,170 --> 03:53:05,130
Gina F. Acosta: Ano yun, Sir?

1186
03:53:05,630 --> 03:53:29,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Trabaho po ba ng security officer, gas to send, yung ni-release yung confidential fund? Iba po yung implement. Siyempre siya yung magagawa ng surveillance. Siyempre siya po yung kukuha ng mga operative na yun sa intelligence. Pero yung paggastos po. Trabaho po ba ng security officer gastusin yung dinisburst ninyong confidential fund?

1187
03:53:30,600 --> 03:54:03,560
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po, Your Honor. Trabaho po yan ng disbursing officer, Your Honor. Pero pag nai-release ko na po ang pera sa kanya, Your Honor, pinareceive ko sa kanya, Your Honor, magbigay po siya sa akin ng utilization report, Your Honor. Yun po ang signed or evidenced, Your Honor, na gawa, na-implement na po niya, Your Honor, ang mga various confidential activities or operations, Your Honor, sa ground kasi siya po ang expert, Your Honor.

1188
03:54:03,680 --> 03:54:07,560
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So sa pananaw po ninyo, ang ginamit niyo pong salita, release.

1189
03:54:08,120 --> 03:54:08,640
Gina F. Acosta: Yes,

1190
03:54:08,640 --> 03:54:08,960
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor.

1191
03:54:08,960 --> 03:54:15,670
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung pag-release po nyo ng pera, kay Colonel Lachica eh dapat i-liquidate na po niya yun?

1192
03:54:16,280 --> 03:54:28,040
Gina F. Acosta: I-liquidate po niya, Your Honor, after po matapos po ang pagpa-implement ng various confidential activities po sa ground, Your Honor, kasi siya po ang expert po, Your Honor. Pero

1193
03:54:28,040 --> 03:54:33,480
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: siya po ang gumastos ng pera sa iba't ibang nakatanggap ng confidential fund. Tama po.

1194
03:54:34,830 --> 03:54:35,790
Gina F. Acosta: Ano yun, Your Honor?

1195
03:54:35,970 --> 03:54:44,620
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Siya po ang gumastos ng pera at nag-abot ng pera Sa iba't ibang pinagbigyan niya, base sa intelligence at confidential operations niya, tama po ba?

1196
03:54:44,940 --> 03:54:55,820
Gina F. Acosta: Siya po, Your Honor, kasi siya po ang may alam kung paano po i-implement ang mga confidential operations activities, Your Honor, kasi confidential po, Your Honor, wala po ako alam.

1197
03:54:55,820 --> 03:54:55,960
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po

1198
03:54:55,960 --> 03:55:03,600
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: ba sangayon sa Joint Circular, kayo dapat ang nagdi-disperse direkta sa beneficiary o recipient?

1199
03:55:04,560 --> 03:55:20,400
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi naman po sinabi, Your Honor, na ako ang magpunta doon sa ground, Your Honor, kasi wala po akong alam, Your Honor, kung ipapatupad, wala po akong security, wala po akong access, Your Honor, sa tinatawag na security information, Your Honor.

1200
03:55:20,840 --> 03:55:37,360
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Huling katanungan po, kaugnan nito bago kay Paso kay Eterna Lagutan. Sa pananaw niyo po ba, sa pag-release niyo kay Colonel Lachica, recipient si Colonel Lachica ng confidential fund, o... Ginampanan po niya yung tungkulin niya sa pag-disperse lamang.

1201
03:55:38,780 --> 03:55:40,980
Gina F. Acosta: Ah, lalipo ko. I'm sorry. I'm

1202
03:55:40,980 --> 03:55:47,680
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: confused. Recipient po ba si Atty. Lachica, si Col. Lachica? O tagapagbigay lang siya ng perang ni-release niyo sa kanya?

1203
03:55:49,380 --> 03:55:50,080
Gina F. Acosta: Ah, wait.

1204
03:55:50,700 --> 03:55:54,080
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yung pera po ba'y tinanggap ni Col. Lachica para sa sarili niya?

1205
03:55:54,640 --> 03:55:55,620
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi, Your Honor.

1206
03:55:56,220 --> 03:55:58,180
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tinanggap po niya para ipamigay sa ibang tao.

1207
03:55:59,960 --> 03:56:14,520
Gina F. Acosta: Tinagka po niyo, Your Honor, para po, Your Honor, sa mga gastusin in relation po sa pagpatupad ng confidential activities or operations, Your Honor, kasi siya po ang may alam, Your Honor, at saka confidential in nature po, Your Honor. So

1208
03:56:14,520 --> 03:56:17,980
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sa pananaw po ninyo, hindi siya recipient, si Colonel Lachica.

1209
03:56:18,500 --> 03:56:21,340
Gina F. Acosta: Yun po ang explanation ko sa iyo kanina, Your Honor.

1210
03:56:21,640 --> 03:56:22,740
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hindi nga po siya recipient.

1211
03:56:24,000 --> 03:56:25,740
Gina F. Acosta: Dily, Your Honor. Okay.

1212
03:56:25,880 --> 03:56:28,140
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Dily is hindi. Now, you sit. At

1213
03:56:28,140 --> 03:57:05,550
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: to yung niligutan. You said that you gave the 125 billion pesos to Colonel Achika. Siya yung nag-disperse. Sabi mo kanina, una, kasi yun yung nakasulat sa Joint Circular 2015-01. And then, sabi mo, and that not only that, sinabi mo rin, kasi yun yung utos ng head of agency, si VP Inday Sara. Now, you were asked, saan sa circular nakasulat? na puwedeng mag-disperse ng confidential funds. Isang security officer hindi mo mahanap. Tama po ba? Tama po ba, ma 'am?

1214
03:57:05,550 --> 03:57:08,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no? This is a premise to the next question, Your Honor.

1215
03:57:08,450 --> 03:57:09,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may answer, counsel?

1216
03:57:11,330 --> 03:57:12,030
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no?

1217
03:57:12,130 --> 03:57:13,070
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Pakisagot po, ma'am Gina.

1218
03:57:13,670 --> 03:57:26,450
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Kung hindi niyo po naunawaan pa, ulit niyo po. Wala sa Circular 2015-01 nakasulat dyan na puwedeng si Colonel Achika as security officer yung mag-disperse ng confidential funds. Wala dyan.

1219
03:57:29,190 --> 03:57:30,810
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Wala dyan. Yes or no?

1220
03:57:31,500 --> 03:57:32,500
Gina F. Acosta: Wala, Your Honor.

1221
03:57:32,840 --> 03:57:45,330
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So, therefore, we are left with only the remaining reason why you gave the confidential funds to Col. La Chica. Kasi, yan.

1222
03:57:47,380 --> 03:57:49,540
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You said, yung pangalawang rason.

1223
03:57:49,760 --> 03:57:53,200
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi, dalawang rason po ang ibig sabihin ko, sir. Okay,

1224
03:57:53,280 --> 03:57:56,590
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ma'am, no question yet. Hindi po tayo nag-aaway.

1225
03:57:56,750 --> 03:57:57,490
Gina F. Acosta: Yes po.

1226
03:57:57,710 --> 03:58:06,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You gave. The 125 million pesos kasi utos ni VP Sara sa'yo. Tama po ba?

1227
03:58:06,750 --> 03:58:08,350
Gina F. Acosta: Isa po yan sa rason, Sir.

1228
03:58:08,470 --> 03:58:08,930
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes or no?

1229
03:58:10,170 --> 03:58:11,210
Gina F. Acosta: Yes. Despite

1230
03:58:11,210 --> 03:58:14,970
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: nothing in the

1231
03:58:14,970 --> 03:58:17,370
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: circular. Yes or no?

1232
03:58:17,650 --> 03:58:19,030
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Argumentative and ask and answer, Your Honor.

1233
03:58:19,510 --> 03:58:23,650
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please answer the question, Madam Witness. It's quite easy to answer.

1234
03:58:24,450 --> 03:58:25,850
Gina F. Acosta: Despite not being

1235
03:58:25,850 --> 03:58:33,570
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: in the circular na po pwedeng si La Chica yung mag-disperse ng confidential funds, binigay mo pa rin sa kanya. Tama po ba?

1236
03:58:34,110 --> 03:58:38,970
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi na ko ihatag, Your Honor, kung wala siya gi-appoint ng security officer, Your Honor.

1237
03:58:39,310 --> 03:58:45,570
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's her interpretation, counsel? Yes. That's her interpretation and reason why she gave it to Colonel La Chica? Or

1238
03:58:45,570 --> 03:58:50,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: is it because you cannot dare question? The Vice President's instruction.

1239
03:58:51,380 --> 03:58:52,920
Atty. Lindon Miguel C. Bacquel: Objection, Your Honor, argumentative.

1240
03:58:53,080 --> 03:59:08,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I would sustain it because it was asked and answered already. She gave two reasons, counsel. Number one, that Colonel Lachica is the one who knows how to implement it. Tama po. And number two, dahil inutos sa kanya ng Vice President bilang Head of Agency. Tama po, Ma'am Gina?

1241
03:59:08,420 --> 03:59:09,500
Gina F. Acosta: Tama po, Your Honor.

1242
03:59:09,520 --> 03:59:12,060
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yan po yung dalawang rason ba't niya binigay kay Colonel Lachica.

1243
03:59:12,500 --> 03:59:14,040
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, Your Honor. Okay.

1244
03:59:14,260 --> 03:59:15,920
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, Madam

1245
03:59:15,920 --> 03:59:16,280
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Witness.

1246
03:59:19,080 --> 03:59:23,720
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I'm showing you now a video where

1247
03:59:25,290 --> 03:59:51,590
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you said you entrusted the confidential funds in the amount of 125 million pesos to a security officer because the vice president directed you to do so and you merely complied. Can we play that?

1248
03:59:52,960 --> 03:59:53,880
Gina F. Acosta: Comply?

1249
03:59:54,490 --> 03:59:57,010
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Wait po, wala pa po? Wala pang question?

1250
03:59:58,500 --> 04:00:01,220
Gina F. Acosta: Sorry, sorry po. It's

1251
04:00:01,220 --> 04:00:02,520
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: okay po. No need to be sorry po.

1252
04:00:05,520 --> 04:00:06,080
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Counsel,

1253
04:00:06,200 --> 04:00:09,420
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you have three minutes. Is this your last question for the afternoon?

1254
04:00:09,620 --> 04:00:12,090
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: For this afternoon. Let's play it.

1255
04:00:13,850 --> 04:00:32,040
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: And then, since part of your job as a special disbursing officer is the disbursement of this amount, please enlighten us. Paano niyo po ginastos, ipinayad, inirelease itong 125 million pesos?

1256
04:00:32,760 --> 04:00:40,370
Gina F. Acosta: Ganito po ang nangyari, ma'am. Nang ma-encash na po ang kwarta, ang pera, ay ang cheque, nag

1257
04:00:43,030 --> 04:01:00,460
Gina F. Acosta: -inform po ang aking head of agency na i-release ko po sa aming security officer. So while on the way na po ako papuntang office, I called up the security officer informing him

1258
04:01:00,460 --> 04:01:01,780
Gina F. Acosta: na

1259
04:01:01,780 --> 04:01:03,940
Gina F. Acosta: na-encash ko na po ang

1260
04:01:03,940 --> 04:01:05,200
Gina F. Acosta: cheque.

1261
04:01:05,200 --> 04:01:08,500
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: You inform the security officer?

1262
04:01:08,500 --> 04:01:09,700
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, ma'am.

1263
04:01:09,700 --> 04:01:16,200
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Can you please mention the name of the security officer? Si Colonel Nolasco din ho ba yan?

1264
04:01:16,480 --> 04:01:23,000
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po, ma'am. Sino po yan? Si Colonel Lachica po. Colonel Lachica. Can you please

1265
04:01:23,000 --> 04:01:25,860
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: enlighten the committee? Sino po ba si Colonel Lachica?

1266
04:01:26,200 --> 04:01:36,990
Gina F. Acosta: Si Colonel Lachica po ay siya po ang ground commander ng aming BPSBGs na na-assign po sa office of the Vice President.

1267
04:01:37,330 --> 04:01:42,250
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Okay. So you informed Colonel La Chica that you have encashed already the cheque.

1268
04:01:42,250 --> 04:01:42,890
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, ma'am.

1269
04:01:42,890 --> 04:01:47,850
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: How about the physical handing of the money? Kailan po nangyari yan?

1270
04:01:49,790 --> 04:01:52,100
Gina F. Acosta: December 20 din po.

1271
04:01:52,100 --> 04:01:54,870
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Magkano po ang binigay niyo kay Colonel La Chica?

1272
04:01:55,150 --> 04:02:01,070
Gina F. Acosta: Binigay ko po sa kanya lahat ang 125 million po. At saan po dinala

1273
04:02:01,070 --> 04:02:01,950
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: ni Colonel La Chica?

1274
04:02:03,500 --> 04:02:05,160
Gina F. Acosta: Yan ang hindi ko naalam, ma

1275
04:02:05,160 --> 04:02:05,450
Gina F. Acosta: 'am.

1276
04:02:05,450 --> 04:02:11,500
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Sandali lang po. Anong oras po ba kayo nakabalik sa OVP?

1277
04:02:11,500 --> 04:02:13,340
Gina F. Acosta: Mga around

1278
04:02:13,340 --> 04:02:17,340
Gina F. Acosta: 4, 4pm.

1279
04:02:17,860 --> 04:02:20,480
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: How long did it take you?

1280
04:02:30,180 --> 04:02:31,460
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I think that's it, counsel.

1281
04:02:31,940 --> 04:02:32,420
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay.

1282
04:02:38,960 --> 04:02:42,100
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Let's go to next video for this point, Your Honor, please.

1283
04:02:44,960 --> 04:02:47,260
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That is, can we show it?

1284
04:03:01,370 --> 04:03:02,130
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: You

1285
04:03:02,130 --> 04:03:10,700
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: were able to check if the items and the amounts provided in the object of expenditure total to 125 million. You checked that?

1286
04:03:10,700 --> 04:03:11,700
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, ma'am.

1287
04:03:11,700 --> 04:03:27,560
Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Okay. Tanong Ms. Acosta, what gave you the confidence? Ano ang nagbigay sa inyo ng lakas ng loob na ibigay ang buong 125 million?

1288
04:03:38,200 --> 04:03:38,920
Gina F. Acosta: May

1289
04:03:38,920 --> 04:03:41,320
Gina F. Acosta: approval po kay Ma'am Inday Sara.

1290
04:03:45,140 --> 04:03:51,920
Gina F. Acosta: Hindi po. Yes po.

1291
04:04:01,260 --> 04:04:06,880
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Page 137 of the TSN marked as PI-1G for the prosecution, please.

1292
04:04:07,460 --> 04:04:07,880
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That

1293
04:04:11,630 --> 04:04:16,610
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: will be the last item for this afternoon for the prosecution. Do you

1294
04:04:23,010 --> 04:05:11,300
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: trust Colonel La Chica, Representative Luistro? Acosta, I trust La Chica. I trust La Chica kasi ginatrust po siya ng aking head of office in Dysara. Representative Luistro, in other words, the only reason Why you're giving your trust to Col. La Chica is because of the instruction of the Vice President. Ms. Acosta, yes ma'am. Luistro, tama mo ba? Acosta, yes ma'am. Luistro, without the instruction of the Vice President, you will never give the entire amount of the 125 billion pesos to Col. La Chica. Ms. Acosta, what was your answer to that question?

1295
04:05:13,320 --> 04:05:14,060
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, sir.

1296
04:05:14,300 --> 04:05:14,820
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Basahin mo.

1297
04:05:15,380 --> 04:05:16,320
Gina F. Acosta: Yes, ma'am.

1298
04:05:17,030 --> 04:05:23,870
Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That will be all for the prosecution this afternoon. But you will still continue with your direct tomorrow, counsel. Yes, Your Honor.

1299
04:05:24,970 --> 04:05:28,730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thereafter, we will proceed with the cross of counsel for respondent.

1300
04:05:30,390 --> 04:05:38,270
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ma'am Gina, pansamantala po konyong pagpapaliban yung inyong testimonya. Balik po kayo bukas, ha? Opo, Your

1301
04:05:38,270 --> 04:05:39,150
Gina F. Acosta: Honor. Kung

1302
04:05:39,150 --> 04:05:49,290
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: maaari po, yan ang nasa visa pa rin ng parehong sabi ng inisyo po namin para po hanggang sa bukas. Para ipagpatuloy po niyo inyong testimonya sa kukumang ito.

1303
04:05:49,950 --> 04:05:50,470
Gina F. Acosta: Yes,

1304
04:05:50,490 --> 04:05:50,630
Gina F. Acosta: Your Honor.

1305
04:05:51,210 --> 04:05:51,730
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank

1306
04:05:51,730 --> 04:06:30,580
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, ma'am. Your excuse, ma'am. Pwede na po kayong bumaba sa witness stand. Just for some administrative matters, the court takes... The court, rather, is in receipt of a 13 August letter of Mr. Lemuel Ortonio asking for leave or to be excused from attending the hearing this week because he is going to take a scheduled psychologist licensure exam administered by the PRC. Given that we are not yet through with Ms. Gina Acosta, we still have witness Eduarda

1307
04:06:32,330 --> 04:06:33,370
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Eduardo Fajarda.

1308
04:06:35,240 --> 04:08:24,800
Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Court finding merit in the request and good faith on the part of Ortonio, hereby grants the request of Mr. Ortonio so that he can take his licensure exam this week. The court will however inform him in advance that we will be issuing a subpoena for him to attend this hearing on Monday after he shall have taken his licensure exam. And a second matter. For the information of the senator-judges and the parties, the Clerk of Court has completed the comparison of the acknowledgement receipts marked as exhibits by both parties. Based on the acknowledgement receipts so far submitted, it appears that there are 3,616 common acknowledgement receipts, 2,666 pertaining to the Office of the Vice President, and 950 pertaining to the DepEd. All ARs are marked by the counsel for the respondent have corresponding ARs from the panel of prosecutors. We note, however, that out of the total of 4,492 acknowledgement receipts of the prosecution, 876 have no counterpart acknowledgement receipts from the respondent. We shall be furnishing both parties with a copy of the Clerk of Court's findings as well as the senator-judges for your information and reference. Forgive us given the inclement weather. We will be adjourning session early in the Senate also by instruction of the Senate President. That's why we're adjourning trial again also a bit earlier today. We will see you tomorrow unless trial is cancelled or unless session is cancelled due to inclement weather. For the meantime, there'll be no other business to be taken up. Trial is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, October 18, rather August 18 at 10 o'clock in the morning.