WEBVTT 00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:35.960 Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: Senate President, the Presiding Officer of the Impeachment Court, and the Senator-Judges. 00:04:21.650 --> 00:04:24.250 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Sergeant-at-Arms is directed to make a proclamation. 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:39.750 Alfredo Sotto Corpuz: All persons are commanded to keep silent under pain of penalty while the Impeachment Court is in session for the trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 00:04:40.900 --> 00:04:52.220 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte is hereby called to order. We shall be led in prayer by Senator Pia Cayetano. 00:05:00.150 --> 00:06:01.370 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: Let us bow our heads. Heavenly Father, we come before you today with a deep sense of responsibility. We ask for your wisdom, Lord, the kind of wisdom that seeks only what is true and what is right. As Senator judges, may we listen carefully, reason clearly, and decide justly. May we never lose sight of the fact that our role here is not to serve any interest, but the interest of the Filipino people and the integrity of our institutions. We pray for fairness in every step of this process. May the truth be heard, may the evidence speak for itself, and may justice, whatever form it takes, be arrived at with honesty and with clear conscience. We also pray for our nation. We know that moments like this can divide us. May this process, difficult as it is, bring us closer to the kind of Philippines we all want to live in, one where no one is above the law and where every Filipino can trust that justice is real. In your word, Book of Timothy. 2, verses 1 to 2, Timothy urges the people to pray, petition, and intercede for their leaders. We are a prayerful nation, O Lord. Please hear our prayers. In Jesus' name, amen. 00:06:01.930 --> 00:06:02.410 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: Amen. 00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:11.680 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: The Clerk of Court will now call the roll. 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:13.760 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Roll call of members. 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:57.150 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senator-Judge Aquino. Senator-Judge Cayetano, Alan. Senator-Judge Cayetano, Pia. Senator-Judge Dela Rosa. Senator-Judge Ejercito. Senator-Judge Estrada. Senator-Judge Go. Senator-Judge Hontiveros. Senator-Judge Lacson. Senator-Judge Lapid. Senator-Judge Legarda. Senator-Judge Marcoleta. Senator-Judge Marcos. Senator-Judge Padilla. Senator-Judge Pangilinan. Senator-Judge Sotto III. Senator-Judge Tulfo, Erwin. Senator-Judge Tulfo, Raffy. Senator-Judge Villanueva. Senator-Judge Villar, Camille. 00:06:57.150 --> 00:07:04.970 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Senator-Judge Villar, Mark. Senator-Judge Zubiri. The Presiding Officer, Senator-Judge Escudero. Senate President Gatchalian. 00:07:05.520 --> 00:07:10.260 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: With 20 Senators present, the Chair declares the presence of the quorum. 00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:18.160 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: We recognize the Presiding Officer, Senator Chiz Escudero. 00:07:18.400 --> 00:07:19.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Mr. Senate President. 00:07:23.280 --> 00:07:39.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Presiding Officer dispenses with the reading of the journal, and if there are no—unless there are objections, considers the journal of July 7, 2026 as— Approved. The Clerk of Court will please call the case before the Impeachment Court. 00:07:39.910 --> 00:07:46.790 Atty. Renato N. Bantug Jr.: Case No. 004-2026, in the matter of the impeachment trial of Vice President Sara Zimmerman Duterte. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:51.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances of the parties. 00:08:00.320 --> 00:08:02.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Tech, kindly turn on the mic. 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:12.980 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Good afternoon, Your Honors. Same appearance for the Prosecution. 00:08:15.460 --> 00:08:16.660 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: We are ready, Your Honor. 00:08:16.840 --> 00:08:17.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Appearances for the Respondent. 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.140 Atty. Sheila C. Sison: Good afternoon, Your Honors. Same appearance for the Vice President. 00:08:26.990 --> 00:08:40.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is instructed to kindly bring the witness who was testifying yesterday, I believe Mr. Calilung. 00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:49.990 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: Your Honor, the prosecution is ready for the continuation of the presentation of our first witness, NBI agent Calilung. 00:08:51.770 --> 00:08:59.930 Rep. Gerville “Jinky Bitrics” R. Luistro: And with that, Your Honor, we would like to request that Atty. Virgil Ligutan, Atty. Amado Ligutan, be recognized, Your Honor. 00:09:10.030 --> 00:09:19.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the record, Atty. Ligutan will be representing the counsel for prosecutors and on the part of the respondent, it will be Atty. Narvasa. 00:09:21.260 --> 00:09:22.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That will be correct? 00:09:28.820 --> 00:10:04.870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: By the way, while we're waiting for the witness, Atty. Narvasa, if you recall yesterday, Atty. Ligutan, in response to a question by a senator-judge, gave a discussion, a peroration, if you will. But yesterday I said we will be giving counsel the same opportunity. I cleared it earlier with Senator Pia Cayetano, who wanted the statements deleted from the record. However, since this is a televised proceeding, 00:10:10.450 --> 00:10:29.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The fairest thing to do is to give you an opportunity as well. Atty. Ligutan spent five minutes and 18 seconds delivering his discussion. The Court will give you the same time after your cross-examination, with a warning— 00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:58.090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I would 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:02.560 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: like to thank the Presiding Officer for 00:11:05.010 --> 00:11:33.950 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: For prudence, for wisdom in trying to resolve this issue. And I do understand that we are 24 people, all elected by the people, all wanting justice, all wanting a fair trial. Having said that, prudence dictates that we stop ourselves from asking certain questions that can prejudice the whole trial, whether or not 00:11:35.530 --> 00:11:44.690 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Our intention is to do so. So the problem is well stated by the presiding officer that if we simply delete from the record, 00:11:45.560 --> 00:11:46.180 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: eh 00:11:46.180 --> 00:12:17.830 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: mapapanood nyo na rin naman sa YouTube yung magandang discussion ng prosecution. So on one sense, it is fair to give the defense a chance to answer. But on another sense, it's unfair. Why? Because whoever phrases the question, lamang na eh. Because the question is, why is this an impeachable offense? So for example, if I was the one who stood up yesterday and I asked the prosecution, why is this a political vendetta? 00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:36.730 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And why is the House not investigating the flood control instead of investigating the Vice President? That would be unfair. That would be unfair to the House. That would be unfair to everyone. So simply giving the prosecution the chance to answer that question I asked, 00:12:37.220 --> 00:14:13.400 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: It would be unfair to everyone. So I do not know the solution. I accept the solution of the Presiding Officer. Now, let's not tolerate any more questions like that. I agree with Senator Pia. I don't like being called out. But that's the role of the Presiding Officer and the Senate President. So sana yun lang. One, when we ask the questions, we'll make sure it doesn't prejudice the whole trial. Whatever we say here, may ma-accuse na lawyering for the prosecution or defense, okay lang yun. Okay lang yun. Sa prayer nga kahapon, basta justice, bahala na magalit. Okay. But my last point, Mr. President, let's give the defense a little latitude in not only answering that question, but what you want to say. Because nga, the question is unfair. So if you're simply going to answer that question, then it won't solve the problem na nakapagsalita sila five minutes, kayo nakapagsalita. So we'll consider, personally, I'll consider the very eloquent answer yesterday as a sort of a closing. So same, same, personally, Mr. Presiding Officer, give the latitude to the defense na parang closing din na whatever. Because they have affirmative defenses. And they did not push us to hear that. They went straight to trial. So dun din sa mga nagsasabi na delay sa dami ng objection, that's unfair. Let's give everyone latitude here. The same thing, I think may konti sa internet na photocopies are not original and the counsel was simply citing a Supreme Court decision. 00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:16.060 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And the rules of court. And the rules of court. 00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:45.750 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So I'm just saying it's an emotional issue, so all of us will be [unclear], whatever, I think, witness. [unclear], but having said that, Mr. President, let's give each other leeway, but only to the point that the trial will not disintegrate into a political fiasco or circus. Thank you, Mr. President. 00:14:45.760 --> 00:14:52.195 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The remarks of Senator-Judge Alan Cayetano are noted. Senator-Judge Pia Cayetano. 00:14:52.583 --> 00:15:15.660 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: Thank you, Mr. President. This will be brief. First of all, I'd just like to confirm that I acknowledge what the presiding officer said, that I agreed. Basically, I'm withdrawing my motion in the interest of fairness because the delivery of justice is about fairness. So, if the prosecution can 00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:41.510 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: speak with their closing statement. I am amenable to that. But very, very, very briefly, Mr. President, I'd like to put on record, why are we being strict about the rules? Why do I have to bother standing up? Well, because nothing in this world will run well without the rules. 00:15:44.380 --> 00:16:17.230 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: The Senate is a basketball-loving Senate. Dami dito hilig mag-basketball. Kung ako volleyball player, colleagues ko basketball. I'll use basketball as an example. Will you have a decent basketball game if there's no rules? No, there's rules. That's why we stand up. And then sometimes there are also opportunities to question the rules. That's also fine. But that's why we have to stand up and call the attention of the presiding officer when we feel that the rules are being violated. And we will continue to do so. When we believe it is necessary in the interest of justice. Thank you, Mr. President. The 00:16:17.230 --> 00:17:46.580 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The remarks of the lady are noted. Since we are discussing housekeeping chores and matters, let the Presiding Officer continue with the same. The Presiding Officer will call for a break midway through in order to afford the parties 15 minutes to relax, go over their notes, and do their thing. In regard to senator-judges or counsel for the parties who are not on deck, you're free to answer the call of nature in the least disruptive manner possible and return afterwards outside of the 15 minutes that we will be doing halfway through the proceedings. And finally, a request has been brought to the Presiding Officer to request as well the senator-judges to lower the tone of conversational voices because I think where you're seated is an echo chamber. Naririnig sa iba't ibang sulok ng plenaryong ito yung mga sinasabi din ninyo at hindi din nakakapag-concentrate yung ilan sa ating mga kasama na nakaupo sa paligiran ninyo. Just a reminder, and one last reminder before I recognize counsel for the respondent: Mr. Calilung, you will be testifying once again and will be undergoing cross-examination under the same oath that you took yesterday. Do you understand that? 00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:47.320 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 00:17:48.020 --> 00:17:53.220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Counsel for Respondent, Atty. Narvasa, if you are ready, you may proceed with your cross-examination. 00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:02.490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may I be allowed to approach a witness? 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so, counsel. 00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:09.090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Good 00:18:09.090 --> 00:18:18.100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: afternoon, Mr. Calilung. Dr. Nelson. During your direct examination, you testified that you were trained on photo and video authentication. 00:18:18.100 --> 00:18:19.300 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:18:19.300 --> 00:18:22.500 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You said that you were trained for two weeks? 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:24.600 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Specifically for photo and video, sir. 00:18:24.600 --> 00:18:31.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, my questions are answerable by yes or a no. Could you please constrain yourself to... 00:18:34.530 --> 00:18:37.950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Atty. Marcello 00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:38.050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: C. 00:18:40.870 --> 00:18:47.830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before counsel for respondent proceeds, counsel for the prosecutor, let the Presiding Officer recognize you first. You are so recognized, sir. What is your objection? 00:18:57.470 --> 00:19:28.490 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Bacquel Unfortunately, Your Honor, please, that's not sanctioned in the rules. There's nothing in our rules that would allow a defense to constrain a witness even on cross-examination to answer the questions by a yes or no answer. It's not in the rules. So, Your Honor, please, we cannot constrain a witness to answering either a yes or a no. The witness should be able to qualify. The usual answer by the defense is that it could be handled by the prosecution on 00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:44.730 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Redirect, but that is not the case. [unclear] the defense to constrain the witness to answer yes or no, the prosecution will vehemently object to that, Your Honor, please. 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:49.010 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Presiding Officer overrules the objection. The counsel for the prosecutors can make a [unclear]. 00:19:49.010 --> 00:19:53.830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: 'Arnaud, Atty. 00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:17.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: According to his testimony yesterday, he has attended over, if I recall correctly, 30 hearings already. So he would know how to respond and to explain if the need would arise. And it's up for counsel for the respondent, if at all, to strike out whatever answers that are not responsive to his question. Counsel for the respondent may proceed. Thank you. 00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:18.140 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: We would abide, Your Honor. We would abide. 00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:19.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, counsel, for the prosecutors. 00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:26.790 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And you testified that you got this training from Max Corps Interventures, correct? 00:20:26.790 --> 00:20:26.920 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:20:27.820 --> 00:20:33.550 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And you said that the training you got from MaxCore InterVentures was in digital forensics. 00:20:33.550 --> 00:20:34.650 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:47.400 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I have with me an article of partnership of MaxCore InterVentures Co. You see that it states that it is the articles of partnership of MaxCore InterVentures Co. 00:20:48.850 --> 00:20:55.610 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, may we allow Atty. Stephen Magallon to also approach the 00:20:57.370 --> 00:21:22.940 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Witnesses stand to peruse the document. And of course, at this juncture, Your Honor, please. I have to object. I have no question yet, Your Honor. I am objecting to the witness being shown an articles of incorporation, a partnership of a... Partnership, Your Honor, please. Anyway, since the question has not been asked, I will— Let us wait 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:30.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for the question, counsel. In the meantime, the Presiding Officer allows counsel for the prosecutors to examine 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:30.960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the document being presented 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:31.200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:45.440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the witness. And, Your Honor, for the reference of the senators, we are flashing these articles of partnership on the screens. Sir, please take a look at page two of these articles. 00:21:54.510 --> 00:21:56.970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Page two, sir. That's here. 00:21:57.530 --> 00:21:58.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Page one, 00:21:58.110 --> 00:21:58.830 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: page two. 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:02.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Let's read it together, okay? 00:22:04.540 --> 00:22:15.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Primary purpose, to engage in the business of trading both import and export of goods on wholesale retail basis. Do you see that, sir? 00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:16.300 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:38.960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now on page, the same very, very same page two. The secondary purpose. Let's read it together again. Own, use, improve, develop, subdivide, sell, exchange, lease, All kinds including buildings, houses, apartments, and other structures. Do you see that, sir? 00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:39.740 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:22:42.230 --> 00:23:16.820 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: After that, in the same page two, the second secondary purpose is to print, publish, distribute, buy, sell, acquire, acquire rights to and generally deal in all kinds of software packages, books, periodicals, newspapers, magazines, journals. and other publications dealing in or having to do with subjects of all kinds character and all acts of things as may time to time be deemed needful necessary or required you see that sir 00:23:16.820 --> 00:23:17.690 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: yes sir 00:23:17.690 --> 00:23:18.770 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: thank 00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:42.130 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you sir now i'm showing you a screenshot of the website of this max score interventions co it states under about us I am also flashing this on the screen, your honors, for the ease of the center judges. 00:23:47.160 --> 00:24:46.860 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your honor, at this juncture, the prosecution will now manifest that there was no question propounded as to the presentation of the articles of partnership. And the council is now moving forward to the presentation of an alleged website. Therefore, it seems that the defense council is the one Presenting the documents without propounding any question to this witness. Highly improper, Your Honor, please. Highly improper. The counsel should be asking question and not presenting document. You will have your turn when the defense team is allowed to present your evidence. Two documents, no question yet. Highly improper, Your Honor, please. Again, I don't want to put the lawyer on the spot. But that is highly improper. Ask questions. Your Honor, I did ask questions. No, there was no question. Can we 00:24:46.860 --> 00:24:47.080 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: ask 00:24:47.080 --> 00:25:15.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that the transcript be read back? Counsel, kindly proceed. Thank you. Counsel, for the prosecutors, with understanding that Mr. Calilung is not testifying as to the truth of whatever counsel asked him or what he read, because clearly he's not competent to testify as to the truth of what is contained in the articles of partnership. However, as to the fact that he read it and saw it, Up to that extent. And the senator judges are so advised as well. So ordered. You may proceed, sir. Thank you, sir. And I am on cross, Your Honor. Thank you. 00:25:16.330 --> 00:26:03.750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, under the words about us, it says, MaxCorp InterVentures has been established as a one-stop source of different products and services intended for both government and private institutions. Its company tagline Innovation without boundaries stands true testament to provide customers with quality merchandise from the simplest to the most sophisticated ones at very affordable prices. The company places a long-term business relationship through customer satisfaction on top of its priority list with integrity and honesty as the foundation of the company. It envisions to evolve into excellence amidst the competitive pace of information technology. You see that, sir? 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:04.490 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:26:04.490 --> 00:26:18.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, now I'm showing you another screenshot of the website of this MaxCore Interventors Co. You confirmed that I'm also flashing this for the ease of the court. 00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:57.040 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Sir? At this point, Your Honor, please allow. The prosecution is allowed. 00:26:57.380 --> 00:27:00.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel for the prosecutor is recognized. Your Honor, not 00:27:01.020 --> 00:27:07.290 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: by way of an objection, but... A manifestation, Your Honor, please. Your 00:27:07.290 --> 00:27:07.470 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor, 00:27:07.550 --> 00:27:07.670 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: this 00:27:07.670 --> 00:27:08.050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: is— Wait, 00:27:08.110 --> 00:27:08.410 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: wait, wait. 00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:17.750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Before that, I would like to object to your manifestation. Your Honor, there's no objection. Why is the prosecutor allowed to manifest during my cross-examination? 00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:18.050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counselor, 00:27:18.090 --> 00:27:25.070 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: correspondent, kindly wait for the Presiding Officer to recognize you. Thank you, Your Honor. What is the desire of the counsel of the prosecutors 00:27:25.070 --> 00:27:25.670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to make 00:27:25.670 --> 00:27:25.970 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I would like 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:54.540 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: to put into record the simple fact, Your Honor, please, that basis has not yet been laid as to the presentation of this. He presented an article of partnership and screenshots of websites without saying who took these screenshots or from where did the defense get the articles of partnership. That is only by way of manifestation. No need for the court to rule on that, Your Honor, please. 00:27:54.540 --> 00:27:58.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted. Earlier ruling of the Presiding Officer stands. Counsel may proceed. 00:27:58.940 --> 00:27:59.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your 00:27:59.040 --> 00:27:59.880 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, may I respond? 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:05.090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No need, Counsel. It was not an objection. Please proceed with your cross. Thank you, Your Honor. 00:28:08.870 --> 00:28:11.430 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I also state a manifestation, Your Honor? 00:28:14.810 --> 00:28:19.050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, the basis of the defense was laid— 00:28:19.050 --> 00:28:22.990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: For the record, the Chair will allow it. Just this once, please. 00:28:22.990 --> 00:28:23.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 00:28:23.350 --> 00:28:29.590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The basis of the defense was laid when we asked him whether he testified that he 00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:38.700 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: got his training as an expert witness from Maxcor Inverventures. 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed. 00:28:40.750 --> 00:29:02.090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, could you take a look at this? Under the words, our products, the products seen there are office supplies and equipment, ICT equipment software and hardware, investigative equipment hardware and software, emergency response software, and CCTVs. Do you see that? 00:29:02.310 --> 00:29:02.840 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes. 00:29:02.840 --> 00:29:03.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 00:29:05.010 --> 00:29:08.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Mr. Calilung, are you a lawyer? 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:09.800 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:16.110 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yesterday, you testified that you signed The affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025. 00:29:18.320 --> 00:29:19.200 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:29:20.860 --> 00:29:28.280 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may I request a copy from the prosecution? I think it is Exhibit P-4-3 in series. 00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: P -4-3 00:29:32.340 --> 00:30:11.140 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: series. Your Honor, please. Manifestation. The witness, number one, mentioned the affidavit of investigation, but that... That the witness did not identify the documents. So for the record, Your Honor, please, that document is not yet presented in courts as a documentary evidence, Your Honor, please. So highly improper for the defense. To elicit that document through this witness precisely because this witness did not yet identify the affidavit of investigation, Your Honor, please. 00:30:12.220 --> 00:30:14.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which exhibit is this? I believe he did, Counsel, 00:30:15.040 --> 00:30:22.360 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: but which exhibit is this? Exhibit P-4-3 to Exhibit P-4-3BB, Your Honor. 00:30:22.520 --> 00:30:33.670 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, please, if I may, it was not yet identified, but it's pre-marked, Your Honor, please, to be presented by our next witness, Atty. Jeremy C. Lotoc. So highly improper, as much as we want to accommodate. 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:15.920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: by any of the witnesses for the counsel for the prosecutors. You will get your chance, counsel for the respondent, when Atty. Lotoc testifies later, which I believe is the only exhibit that he will be testifying— 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:16.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to. 00:31:16.260 --> 00:31:17.100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: All right, Your Honor. 00:31:17.100 --> 00:31:18.160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly proceed, counsel. 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You mentioned an affidavit of investigation, correct? 00:31:22.020 --> 00:31:23.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:31:23.100 --> 00:31:28.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And this affidavit of investigation, you... 00:31:29.650 --> 00:31:34.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sent a copy to the House of Representatives Committee on Justice. 00:31:34.300 --> 00:31:35.480 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:42.690 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You identified it during the House Committee hearings on April 29, 2025. 00:31:44.590 --> 00:31:45.750 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:48.660 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I'm showing you now an affidavit of investigation. 00:31:51.360 --> 00:31:56.660 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This is marked as Exhibit D-4-46 in series, Your Honor. 00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:07.360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: D-4-46 and series. Is there a counterpart marking from the Council for Prosecutors? 00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:14.680 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor. This is P-1, P-4-3 to P-4-3BB. 00:32:16.580 --> 00:32:24.540 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. For the record. This affidavit of investigation has appendages, correct? Annexes. 00:32:25.080 --> 00:32:25.780 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:32:25.780 --> 00:32:27.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And it forms a whole, 00:32:27.340 --> 00:32:28.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: correct? 00:32:28.070 --> 00:32:29.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:32:29.050 --> 00:32:29.330 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay. 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:35.540 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Do you confirm that you signed this? 00:32:36.780 --> 00:32:38.440 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I am one of the signatories, sir. 00:32:39.110 --> 00:32:41.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Do you want me to have it in my identified signature? 00:32:45.410 --> 00:32:48.640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, do you have— Here, sir. 00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:56.940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Just by chance, sir, the one you signed— I withdraw, 00:32:58.860 --> 00:33:13.630 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. Apart from this affidavit of investigation, dated February 10, are you aware if there is— Another affidavit of investigation executed by the NBI represented by the Cybercrime Division in relation to this case. 00:33:14.910 --> 00:33:16.890 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: This is the only one that is submitted, sir. 00:33:17.090 --> 00:33:18.430 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No. Executed. 00:33:18.510 --> 00:33:20.410 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Signed. My question 00:33:20.410 --> 00:33:20.950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: is executed. 00:33:21.190 --> 00:33:23.830 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: The defense cannot argue with the witness, Your Honor, please. 00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:31.700 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The witness would know how to respond, counsel. If he is not responsive to your question, do not argue with the witness. Yes, Your Honor. Can I have your phrase? 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:45.680 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Apart from this affidavit of investigation, Are you aware if there is any other affidavit of investigation signed by the NBI represented by the cyber crime? Okay, 00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:53.200 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: at that juncture, I have to object. Vague, Your Honor. Affidavit of investigation signed by the NBI. Related to this case, Your Honor. There could be thousands of documents. 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:53.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Related 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:53.960 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to this 00:33:53.960 --> 00:34:09.660 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: case. If the witness knows, witness may answer. Is there any other affidavit of investigation executed by the NBI cyber crime in relation to this case, witness? 00:34:11.950 --> 00:34:15.490 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, sir, this is the final affidavit of investigation, sir. 00:34:16.350 --> 00:34:17.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Final affidavit. 00:34:17.890 --> 00:34:18.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Are you 00:34:18.450 --> 00:34:21.050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: sure, agent? Let me remind you that you are under oath. 00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:22.400 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:31.740 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I have with me a certification, a DOJ certification, executed by J. V. Lawrence B. Bandung, 00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:44.130 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Senior Assistant State Prosecutor J. V. Bandung. For the record, Your Honor, this is Exhibit D-4-29 for the defense. Do you see this, sir? 00:34:44.970 --> 00:34:45.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:34:46.270 --> 00:35:10.530 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This certification dated February 5, 2025, states, and I quote, the referral, the complaint referral, does not contain all the necessary evidence to prove the essential elements of the crime. Therefore, it is recommended that the same be first referred for case buildup. Do you see that? 00:35:10.790 --> 00:35:11.070 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, 00:35:11.090 --> 00:35:11.210 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, below that, in 00:35:16.660 --> 00:35:34.530 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the second page, below that, Under the word notes, number one, therefore, states, and I quote, that there is no... May I have this flashed on the screen, please? For the ease of the court, so the honorable court can follow. 00:35:37.430 --> 00:35:45.770 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Under notes again, sir. For the record, Your Honor, we are flashing the certification on the screen. 00:35:47.890 --> 00:35:49.990 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Under notes, sir, number 00:35:52.450 --> 00:36:10.470 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: one, therefore, states, and I quote, there is no affidavit of the persons who recorded the video. V.P. November 23, Presscon, Atbatasan Through open broadcast software , an intern stored it in a digital video disc. Do you see that, sir? 00:36:10.810 --> 00:36:11.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:13.840 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Let's go to page 2. 00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:50.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On paragraph 7, it states, and I quote, One of the elements of the crime of grave threats is that the offender threatens another with infliction upon the latter's person, honor, or property. Or upon that of the latter's family, of any wrong amounting to any crime. In the instant complaint, only the NBI executed an affidavit and there was no participation on the part of the offended parties, as it appears. NBI is not the offended party for the crime of great theft. Do you see that? 00:36:50.600 --> 00:36:52.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:36:52.050 --> 00:36:56.040 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Above this, in paragraph 6, it 00:36:57.580 --> 00:37:16.430 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: states that, and I quote, Only the minutes of the meeting with several personalities and representatives from various media outfits were submitted. And although the minutes were signed, there was no individual affidavit executed regarding the contents of said minutes. Do you see that, sir? 00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:17.070 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:37:17.790 --> 00:37:29.150 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On paragraph 5, it states that, and I quote, the affidavit of one Patria Morales mentioned that she stored these footages. Atty. 00:37:40.210 --> 00:37:53.750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: who made such TSN. There was also no affidavit of the person who made the TSN. Do you see that? 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:54.080 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:58.920 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On paragraph 3, it states that, I quote, annexes I and K— 00:38:00.810 --> 00:38:26.150 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: DVDs with markings NBI-CNN-C-2412436-2 and NBI-CCN-C-2412436-2 were not accompanied by an affidavit of the record and TSN, also affidavit of the one who will execute the TSN. 00:38:27.050 --> 00:38:27.630 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:38:28.180 --> 00:38:46.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On paragraph 2, it states, and I quote, the press briefing conducted on October 18 was not recorded and or stored in a DVD, no video submitted, and there was no TSN of the said briefing and the necessary affidavit of the person taking the CSN. 00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:47.260 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:38:54.100 --> 00:38:55.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, you are aware. 00:39:00.040 --> 00:39:13.160 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So, now, is your memory refreshed, sir? The DOJ sent back the original affidavit of investigation to the NBI. 00:39:14.290 --> 00:39:16.030 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. Thank 00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:16.190 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you. 00:39:17.870 --> 00:39:35.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, you are aware that on February 11, 2025, the NBI, through its then-director, retired Judge Jaime B. Santiago, wrote to the Office of the Prosecutor General submitting a revised affidavit 00:39:35.350 --> 00:39:36.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: of investigation. 00:39:36.910 --> 00:39:37.500 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:44.310 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This is your affidavit of investigation dated February 00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:49.440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: 10, 2025. 00:39:51.540 --> 00:40:21.140 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Wait, wait, wait. Objection, Your Honor. The defense said that this is your affidavit dated February 10 without showing any document. I'm asking, sir, how could the witness answer to a question that is not accompanied with a document? That should be the basis for the question. And 00:40:21.140 --> 00:40:36.140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: this is your affidavit. I will reform your honor. Kindly reform, counsel. Thank you, your honor. This is your affidavit dated February 10, 2024, correct? Please check. 00:40:52.930 --> 00:40:53.570 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sorry, sir. 00:41:38.020 --> 00:41:41.960 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Can I make a manifestation, Your Honor, please? Your Honor, can we object again 00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:43.060 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: to this manifestation? 00:41:43.780 --> 00:41:48.040 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I will not even object. I'm being generous. Your Honor. Counsel, 00:41:48.220 --> 00:42:01.340 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: let's wait for the witness to review it. It's a voluminous document. The signature is on the last page. You can make the corresponding objection to the style, manner, or cross-examination of the counsel for responding at the proper time. 00:42:24.100 --> 00:42:27.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: This is a photocopy of the 00:42:27.350 --> 00:42:29.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: affidavit, sir. Yes, sir. This is the amended one. 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:33.780 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. The photocopy, sir. Thank you. With 00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:42.460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the permission of council, Mr. Calilung, what was the date of the first affidavit you submitted that was returned by the DOJ to the NBI? 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:58.220 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, January 30, when the certification was issued. We complied with the requirements and submitted it on February 10. Have you identified 00:42:58.220 --> 00:43:10.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: that affidavit of investigation dated January 30 in yesterday's proceedings? No. Yes or no? Sir? Have you identified the January 30? 00:43:11.230 --> 00:43:15.210 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The one that I identified, Your Honor, is the authentication, Your Honor. 00:43:15.430 --> 00:43:25.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not the affidavit of investigation. So you have not done so? Yes, sir. This one, you have not done so too? Yes, Your Honor. For the record, counsel, you may proceed. 00:43:44.390 --> 00:43:50.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I'm showing you now a letter dated January 30 from the former NBI director Jaime Santiago. 00:43:50.810 --> 00:43:51.670 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now, I have 00:43:51.670 --> 00:43:52.010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: to object, 00:43:52.170 --> 00:43:52.730 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, please. 00:43:52.830 --> 00:44:10.230 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: You know, the defense has been confronting this witness with documents even without marking and identifying the source of these documents. It's like plucking out of thin air a document, presenting them the document to the witness, and withdrawing the document. Your Honor, that's up to the— 00:44:13.990 --> 00:44:26.710 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: So my question is, through the presiding officer, is the defense not entering these documents into 00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:52.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: evidence, Your Honor, please? They can do so at the proper time, counsel, but insofar as the witness is concerned, I think the basis was laid when he said that he executed only one affidavit of investigation in connection with this case. Now it seems that there are two affidavits, both of which have not yet been presented. One will be presented, I think, by Atty. Lotoc. The first one, we're not aware of it. 00:44:53.050 --> 00:44:53.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Is that 00:44:53.650 --> 00:44:53.870 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: correct, 00:44:53.970 --> 00:45:09.970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: counsel, for the respondent? Your Honor, he just identified a copy of the affidavit of investigation. Dated June, January 30? April 10, 2025. February 10, Your Honor. February 10, 00:45:10.030 --> 00:45:13.910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor, please. What about the first affidavit? The witness said they had the first affidavit. 00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:15.290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. Not yet. 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:16.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not yet? 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:17.400 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes. 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:17.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 00:45:17.900 --> 00:45:20.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: only cited a January 30 letter of 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:21.080 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the former 00:45:21.080 --> 00:45:21.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: NBI 00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:31.180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: director. I cited, Your Honor, a certification by the DOJ returning an affidavit. 00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:39.280 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: And that is now the problem, Your Honor. In fact, even I am confused because the documents are not introduced into evidence by the defense. 00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:45.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, please proceed and kindly help the court to be clarified regarding this matter. 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:53.440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You mentioned that you were aware 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:19.440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: that the then director retired, Judge B. Santiago, wrote to the Office of the Prosecutor General submitting a revised affidavit of investigation on February 11, 2025. I'm showing you now that letter 00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:25.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: dated February 11, 2025. For 00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:31.700 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the record, this is Exhibit D-4-43. 00:46:33.030 --> 00:46:35.090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: For the 00:46:35.090 --> 00:46:35.510 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: defense. 00:46:36.190 --> 00:46:54.330 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Up for the defense? You mean pre-marked, I suppose? Because when you say marked as evidence for the defense, it's not yet. Your turn has, I mean, you have yet to present your exhibit, so it should be pre-marked, Your Honor, please. 00:46:54.690 --> 00:47:06.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, it's pre-marked, and I believe both the defense and the, rather, the respondent of the prosecution also have common pieces of evidence which you decided during pretrial. This is not one of them. Which you decided during pretrial to be marked separately. It's not 00:47:06.980 --> 00:47:10.980 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: one of those few common piece of evidence. Yes, there are 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:11.500 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: a few. 00:47:11.500 --> 00:47:15.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir? Please proceed, counsel, for the respondent. Witness the answer. 00:47:15.600 --> 00:47:21.490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: There is a signature above the name Judge Jaime B. Santiago. Whose signature is that? 00:47:21.870 --> 00:47:30.730 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, now, I would like to object to the relevance. A letter is being, the witness is being confronted with a letter coming from 00:47:30.730 --> 00:47:36.070 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the former NBI Director Judge Jaime B. Santiago. And this witness 00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:39.450 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: is now being asked to identify whose signature is that. That's obvious. 00:47:39.790 --> 00:47:49.410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'll allow it conditionally if you can show the relevance as far as your ability to test the credibility and the accuracy of the witnesses concerned. In the meantime, I'll allow it. Kindly show the connection, counsel. Thank you. 00:47:52.630 --> 00:47:54.950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, whose signature is this? 00:48:06.500 --> 00:48:10.260 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, signature of Director Santiago, sir. Thank you. 00:48:14.250 --> 00:48:18.530 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On the last line of the letter, on the fourth page, sir, 00:48:20.200 --> 00:48:21.180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Please take a look. 00:48:22.780 --> 00:48:37.470 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Last line. It says, and I quote, To support our recommendations attached herein is the revised affidavit of investigation, including its attachments. Did you see that, agent? 00:48:41.610 --> 00:48:42.360 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:43.170 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 00:48:43.390 --> 00:49:05.850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And you confirmed that the former NBI director Jaime Santiago wrote to the Prosecutor General Richard Anthony D. Fadulion a letter dated February, January 30, 2025. This is one of the documents that you submitted to the Committee on Justice, correct? 00:49:06.940 --> 00:49:10.010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Where is it? Okay, I will show you now. 00:49:12.740 --> 00:49:16.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I have this flashed on the screen? 00:49:46.030 --> 00:49:47.290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Do you recall this document? 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. Yes. 00:49:57.240 --> 00:50:03.500 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: January 30, 2025 is a date earlier than February 10, 2025, correct? 00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:03.960 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:04.660 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor. 00:50:08.490 --> 00:50:12.410 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, the witness being asked which came first. 00:50:14.740 --> 00:50:16.520 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Relevance, Your Honor. Relevance. 00:50:16.520 --> 00:50:36.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, Counsel, if the witness knows and the counsel for respondent will be given the latitude to test the credibility, accuracy, and completeness of the testimony of the witness. But we note your continuing objection because you already sound frustrated, Counsel, in regard to this line of questioning by the counsel 00:50:36.040 --> 00:50:36.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for respondent. 00:50:36.640 --> 00:50:37.580 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I'm very patient, Your Honor. I'm very patient. 00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:40.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The council correspondent may 00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:41.620 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: proceed. Witness 00:50:41.620 --> 00:50:42.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may answer. 00:50:44.150 --> 00:50:53.520 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: He already answered, Your Honor. Thank you. You earlier confirmed that there was actually a certification dated February 5, 2025. 00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:57.740 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Objection, obviously, I don't remember 00:50:57.740 --> 00:51:00.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: this witness. Let 00:51:00.390 --> 00:51:02.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the council finish with this question, counsel. 00:51:04.040 --> 00:51:04.640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: He 00:51:04.640 --> 00:51:20.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: even read it, Your Honor. You likewise confirmed that in that said certification, Dated February 5, 2025. The earlier affidavit of investigation were subject to seven recommendations. And you confirmed that you read that. 00:51:20.350 --> 00:51:23.070 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Objection. Misleading order, please. 00:51:23.550 --> 00:52:26.030 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Now the council mentioned seven grounds. Seven grounds. And I don't remember This witness uttering the term seven crowns. What I do remember, Your Honor, please, is that this witness was confronted with a certification, a letter, whatever, but now the council is now asking this witness to confirm the contents of those certifications or letters. Misleading. That's not allowed during cross. The council is now assuming facts that have yet to be established. Can I repeat that? This witness was only confronted with certifications, letters, dated this, dated that. And now, the counsel now asking, do you confirm rights? Now he is asking this witness to confirm that in that letter there are seven grounds. As if this witness uttered those words. The ground is misleading, definition. This counsel is assuming facts that have yet to be established through this witness. Your Honor, please. Counsel, 00:52:26.090 --> 00:52:43.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: again, the witness is not a newbie. I think he can handle himself and would know how to answer if indeed he is familiar or not with what is being presented to him. And thus far, he has responded based on his knowledge of these documents. Chair will allow it. Witness may answer. 00:52:45.690 --> 00:52:46.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir? 00:52:47.930 --> 00:52:57.860 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Can you repeat the question, Counsel? You confirmed that there was a certification dated February 5, 2025. You likewise confirmed that in said certification— Your 00:52:57.860 --> 00:53:01.740 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor, Your Honor, compound question. Compound question. There's no question. Wait, wait. 00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:07.680 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly wait for the Presiding Officer to recognize you before answering. Yes, Your Honor. Yes. 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.200 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Please, counsel for 00:53:09.200 --> 00:53:10.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the prosecutors, please finish your objection. 00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:30.030 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Thank you so much. Can I? Yes, please proceed, counsel. Compound questions. The witness is now being confronted with two. Successive questions without allowing this witness to answer the first question. What makes a compound question... No need to lecture, Counsel. Counsel for Respondent, please reform. 00:53:30.370 --> 00:53:35.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, I had no question. He already... I had no question yet. 00:53:35.540 --> 00:53:37.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly, kindly proceed with 00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:38.160 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: your question. Thank you, Your Honor. 00:53:39.810 --> 00:53:46.760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The earlier affidavit of investigation was subject... To seven recommendations from the DOJ for case build-up. 00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:51.030 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Objection vague. The earlier investigation, which investigation is the Council referring to? 00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:53.000 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Objection vague. 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: We already established, Your Honor, there was an earlier one. 00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:57.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Overruled. Overruled. 00:53:57.170 --> 00:54:03.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Again, the witness is competent enough to testify. Overruled. Witness, kindly proceed with your question, Council. 00:54:03.430 --> 00:54:03.690 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes. 00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:05.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: In 00:54:05.560 --> 00:54:23.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025, that you identified, Despite DOJ's Recommendation No. 6 that you earlier read, Sir, Your Honor, I am not yet finished. Can 00:54:23.300 --> 00:54:25.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we wait for the counsel to finish with this question, counsel, please? 00:54:26.740 --> 00:54:27.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, 00:54:29.820 --> 00:54:40.550 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: there were still no affidavits of the journalists from the media outlets in your affidavit of investigation dated February 10. 00:54:42.140 --> 00:55:03.190 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Witness, not under first objection or misleading. Why is it misleading, counsel? The counsel said the earlier affidavit of investigation. In fact, your honor, please, he referred to the February 10 investigation. That's not the earlier investigation. That is the final affidavit of investigation submitted to the DOJ. 00:55:03.530 --> 00:55:19.770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Misleading. Misleading, your honor. Your honor, the presiding officer will ask the question. Mr. Witness, did you attach the affidavits of the two? Witnesses that viewed the video of the vice president in the February 10 affidavit? 00:55:21.220 --> 00:55:24.840 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. Let me qualify my answer in number six, sir. 00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:25.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may do so. 00:55:25.450 --> 00:55:39.180 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: In number six, sir, the DOJ requested an affidavit to be executed regarding the content of the minutes. I executed an affidavit attesting to those minutes, sir, which I'm part of the interview, sir. 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:43.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But was it attached to the February 10 affidavit? Yes, sir. 00:55:45.060 --> 00:55:46.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel for the respondent, your witness. 00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:47.400 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 00:55:49.630 --> 00:55:55.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, but there are no affidavits of the journalists from the media outlets, correct? 00:55:57.850 --> 00:56:04.420 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: My question is not found there, Your Honor. Oh, Your Honor, please, sir. My question is not found there. Okay, wait, wait, wait. The 00:56:04.420 --> 00:56:11.100 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: counsel is confronting the witness with a document and he propounded questions and then he 00:56:11.100 --> 00:56:16.120 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: asked another question and he took the document away. What's the purpose of that? 00:56:16.120 --> 00:56:23.020 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: objection, Your Honor? My question is plain, Your Honor. Let the witness peruse the document you presented him with. Let 00:56:23.020 --> 00:56:26.120 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: him answer that through a document. My question is plain, Your Honor. 00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:30.000 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, a witness should be allowed to peruse the document 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: that he was confronted with. 00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:33.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I am not—Counsels, please. Please. 00:56:34.780 --> 00:56:42.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness—I think the witness understood the question. Mr. Calilung, you may answer if you understand the question. I will repeat 00:56:42.130 --> 00:56:54.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the question, Your Honor. Kindly repeat, Counsel. Thank you, Your Honor. There is still no affidavits of the journalists from media outlets appended on your revised affidavit of investigation, sir. 00:56:54.550 --> 00:56:55.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I 00:56:55.050 --> 00:56:56.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: qualify for an answer? No, sir. Just 00:56:56.650 --> 00:56:57.490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: answer a yes or no. 00:56:57.650 --> 00:57:05.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly look at the document presented to you. ONRI direct counsel can make you explain the disparity, if any. 00:57:07.990 --> 00:57:14.320 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The question is simple. Are the affidavits attached to the affidavit of investigation? 00:57:56.780 --> 00:57:58.480 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I see the question number six? 00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:03.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, my question does not relate to question number six. 00:58:03.040 --> 00:58:04.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly show the witness counsel. 00:58:05.740 --> 00:58:08.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I will enable him to give an 00:58:08.060 --> 00:58:15.110 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: intelligent answer to your question. Can we please slash certification and put it to paragraph number six? 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:34.860 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The paragraph number six states that only the minutes of meeting with several personalities and representatives from various media outfits were submitted, although the minutes were signed. There were no individual affidavits executed regarding to the content of the minutes. Okay, sir. 00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:35.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I 00:58:35.040 --> 00:58:35.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: have no question. 00:58:35.520 --> 00:58:36.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: So the answer is 00:58:36.040 --> 00:58:37.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the affidavits are not 00:58:37.060 --> 00:58:40.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: attached. I have executed an affidavit, sir. No, the 00:58:40.040 --> 00:58:44.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: affidavits of the two journalists are not attached. I think that's the only question of counsel for the respondent. 00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:44.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Thank you, 00:58:44.940 --> 00:58:45.060 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. 00:58:50.790 --> 00:59:02.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Instead, sir, as you confirmed, what you appended to the affidavit of investigation are affidavits of NBI agents, correct? 00:59:02.020 --> 00:59:03.300 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 00:59:03.300 --> 00:59:06.420 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Not the journalists who were present during 00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:06.960 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: the 00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:09.580 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: November 23-24 press conference. 00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:10.720 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The one who interviewed, sir. 00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:15.590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yeah, the one who interviewed. Not the journalists. Ashkahn 00:59:15.590 --> 00:59:16.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: answered, Your Honor. 00:59:19.850 --> 00:59:31.010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, in the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025 that you identified, despite DOJ's recommendation number 7, can 00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:37.900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: we show again DOJ recommendation number 7? 00:59:40.040 --> 00:59:49.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: In the certification dated February 5, 2025, it is still the NBI Cybercrime Division that is the complainant. 00:59:53.700 --> 00:59:56.780 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I believe this is answered on the letter of the director, sir. 00:59:57.020 --> 00:59:59.440 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, my answer is answerable, but yes and no. 01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:15.260 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The first lady Lisa Marcos? 01:00:15.420 --> 01:00:16.800 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. The 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:18.780 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: former Speaker of the House Martin Romualdes? 01:00:19.080 --> 01:00:19.560 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:00:20.490 --> 01:00:24.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did President Marcos appear before the NBI during its investigation? 01:00:25.700 --> 01:00:26.420 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:00:33.260 --> 01:00:38.900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did the former Speaker Martin Romaldes appear before the NBI during its investigation? 01:00:38.900 --> 01:00:40.400 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:56.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, I'm showing you again for the record the affidavit investigation. Sir, did you attach to that affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025 an affidavit of the President Marcos? 01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.340 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Only the responses, sir. 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:01.140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, listen to my question. 01:01:01.140 --> 01:01:02.150 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:01:02.150 --> 01:01:05.900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, he did not answer, so I am entitled to ask. Not responsive. 01:01:06.520 --> 01:01:14.220 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The question was, Mr. Witness, did you attach the affidavit of President Marcos to the February 10 affidavit? 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:15.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:01:15.160 --> 01:01:21.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you attach an affidavit of the First Lady Lisa Marcos on your affidavit? 01:01:22.890 --> 01:01:23.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:01:23.590 --> 01:01:29.270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you attach an affidavit of former Speaker Martin Romaldes on your affidavit of investigation? 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:31.140 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:01:31.420 --> 01:01:32.940 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: To your knowledge, if you know, sir. 01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:45.760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did President Marcos file any criminal complaint against Vice President Sara Duterte as a result of the November 23, 2024 online press conference? You made that statement. 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.170 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:01:46.170 --> 01:01:53.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: My question is, if you know, did the President file any criminal complaint against the Vice President? 01:01:53.540 --> 01:01:54.720 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have no personal knowledge. 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.860 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did the First Lady Lisa Areneta Marcos file any criminal complaint against VP Sara? 01:02:00.180 --> 01:02:01.680 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have no personal knowledge. 01:02:01.930 --> 01:02:11.710 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: How about the Speaker Martin Romaldes? Did he file any criminal complaint against VP Sarri as a result of the November 23, 2024 online press conference? 01:02:12.090 --> 01:02:13.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have no personal knowledge. 01:02:15.150 --> 01:02:19.010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you really investigate this case? With Ron, Your Honor. With Ron. With Ron. 01:02:19.030 --> 01:02:33.000 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you really investigate this? How about Speaker Martin Romualdez? In other words, sir, the alleged offended parties were not included as complainants in the case you filed with the Department of Justice. 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:33.920 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:56.640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. Please. Thank you. And despite the fact that the NBI Cybercrime Division did not comply with recommendations number 6 and number 7 in the certification dated February 5, 2026, it nevertheless filed the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025 that you identified today. 01:02:56.640 --> 01:02:58.890 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Can I qualify my answer, sir? 01:02:58.890 --> 01:03:01.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No, sir. Just answer with a yes or no. 01:03:02.410 --> 01:03:09.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Witness may be allowed to answer according to how he wishes to explain. You may proceed, Mr. Witness, to answer. 01:03:10.630 --> 01:03:25.690 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. Thank you, Your Honor. For this case, we complied with the requirements of the DOJ. That's why we secured a second certification wherein our document is enough for preliminary investigation, sir. Okay. 01:03:25.730 --> 01:03:26.270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 01:03:26.370 --> 01:03:27.090 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: And this 01:03:27.090 --> 01:03:28.550 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: certification is a 01:03:30.500 --> 01:03:36.980 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: certification dated February 5, 2025, correct? 01:03:38.470 --> 01:03:41.870 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: This is not the new certification, sir. 01:03:43.560 --> 01:03:44.640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Oh, sorry, sir. 01:03:48.970 --> 01:03:52.050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Apologies, sir. February 11. 01:03:54.140 --> 01:03:54.740 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This 01:03:54.740 --> 01:04:03.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: was also executed by Senior Assistant State Prosecutor J. V. Lawrence B. Bandong, correct? 01:04:03.250 --> 01:04:03.860 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:04:11.980 --> 01:04:15.920 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now let's discuss the nature of the investigation you conducted. 01:04:17.870 --> 01:04:31.100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You claimed in your affidavit, sir, that affidavit of investigation that the NBI began its investigation into the VP's remarks because it was directed by the DOJ to do so. 01:04:31.740 --> 01:04:33.560 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Motu proprio indirected, sir. 01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:34.260 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay. 01:04:37.310 --> 01:04:39.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Do you understand what you just said, sir? 01:04:39.250 --> 01:04:40.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:04:40.350 --> 01:04:42.010 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Can I object to that, 01:04:42.010 --> 01:04:44.190 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, please? I'm asking, sir. It 01:04:44.190 --> 01:04:45.170 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: makes sense. Argumentative, 01:04:45.250 --> 01:04:46.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: counsel. Move on. 01:04:47.410 --> 01:04:52.920 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Motu proprio, sir, means... Oh, no. Objection. You cannot lecture, counsel. This is cross 01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:55.980 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: -examination. Sir, you mentioned mutu proprio. What does it mean? 01:04:57.020 --> 01:04:59.520 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Even without a complainant, we started the investigation, sir. 01:05:00.930 --> 01:05:01.750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Are you sure, sir? 01:05:01.950 --> 01:05:03.010 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Oh, argumentative. 01:05:03.010 --> 01:05:05.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Are you sure, sir? Move on, counsel. Move on. 01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:17.040 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: How about direct investigation? What does that mean? 01:05:18.190 --> 01:05:18.730 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor. 01:05:20.530 --> 01:05:21.750 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Okay, never mind. 01:05:21.850 --> 01:05:22.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Directed 01:05:22.250 --> 01:05:23.670 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: investigation. What does that mean? 01:05:24.210 --> 01:05:26.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: There is a subtraction from all of, sir. 01:05:26.100 --> 01:05:31.000 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: From? What does above mean? 01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:34.600 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It may be the DOJ or the higher. 01:05:34.600 --> 01:05:36.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Higher. What's higher than the DOJ? 01:05:39.300 --> 01:05:41.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on that, it's only the DOJ, 01:05:41.080 --> 01:05:41.300 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 01:05:41.300 --> 01:05:44.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You said above the DOJ, sir. 01:05:44.030 --> 01:05:45.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. Above the DOJ. 01:05:45.020 --> 01:05:48.540 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, you said above. May I ask for a reading? 01:05:49.060 --> 01:06:03.130 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel, again, I would have to sustain the objection. It is argumentative. I heard the answer and he meant as a general term, above. But referring apparently to only the DOJ in this particular instance. 01:06:03.410 --> 01:06:04.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: We submit, Your Honor. 01:06:04.200 --> 01:06:05.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed. 01:06:05.170 --> 01:06:14.270 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You confirmed that the NBI Cybercrime Division is the complainant in the case against the Vice President and that the DOJ filed this with the DOJ. 01:06:16.190 --> 01:06:18.690 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Objection. Compound, Your Honor. That's a compound question. No question, Your Honor. 01:06:18.870 --> 01:06:19.970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: That was just a statement. 01:06:19.970 --> 01:06:22.570 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Oh, exactly. Your Honor, a statement? He's laying 01:06:22.570 --> 01:06:30.180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the basis for a question. Go to your question, Counsel. Sir, the NBI, of course, you're from the NBI. Is under the Department of Justice. 01:06:31.020 --> 01:06:31.630 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:06:31.630 --> 01:06:34.640 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, we can take judicial notice of that. Your Honor. 01:06:36.600 --> 01:06:37.040 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I'm 01:06:37.040 --> 01:06:37.640 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: on cross, Your Honor. 01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:38.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I know, 01:06:38.260 --> 01:06:41.140 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: but there are things that need not be discussed. Your 01:06:41.140 --> 01:06:49.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Honor, please. Counsel, let's give him some latitude. Although we can take judicial notice of that, it's part of 01:06:49.040 --> 01:06:50.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: his cross-examination. 01:06:50.500 --> 01:06:55.800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. The Secretary of Justice is meanwhile the head of the DOJ, correct? 01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:56.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:06:56.900 --> 01:07:02.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The Secretary of Justice exercises control and supervision over the NBI. 01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:06.260 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No more questions. 01:07:06.780 --> 01:07:07.300 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes 01:07:07.300 --> 01:07:08.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: or no, Mr. Witness, 01:07:08.620 --> 01:07:09.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: if you know. 01:07:11.090 --> 01:07:11.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Can you repeat, 01:07:11.950 --> 01:07:16.930 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: sir? The Secretary of Justice exercises control and supervision over the NBI. 01:07:17.820 --> 01:07:18.340 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes 01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:18.680 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: or no? 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:22.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: We are under, sir. But we're independent. 01:07:23.180 --> 01:07:42.190 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So you do not know? Oh, Your Honor, that's argumentative. So you do not know? All right, Your Honor. Are you aware of Book 4, Chapter 8, Supervision and Control of the Admin Code? Your Honor, I have no question yet. Please. Section 39 01:07:42.190 --> 01:07:47.290 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: thereof, 01:07:47.390 --> 01:08:10.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Secretary's authority. The Secretary shall have the supervision and control over the bureaus, offices, and agencies under him. Supervision and control. Sir, my question is this. Is the NBI, the National Bureau of Investigation, a bureau under the Department of Justice? 01:08:10.690 --> 01:08:11.150 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:08:11.270 --> 01:08:11.730 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 01:08:14.200 --> 01:08:26.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And, sir, the President has control over all executive departments, correct? I believe so, sir. The DOJ is one of those executive departments, correct? 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:27.380 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:08:28.170 --> 01:08:34.590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And the current president is Ferdinand Marcos Jr., correct? We agree to that. That's judicial notice. Your Honor, please. 01:08:35.570 --> 01:08:36.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes 01:08:36.130 --> 01:08:44.890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: or no? There's no other president. He answered already, Your Honor. Already asked and answered. The head of the executive branch is President Ferdinand Marcos Jr., correct? 01:08:45.310 --> 01:08:45.970 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:08:46.350 --> 01:08:54.850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The very same Ferdinand Marcos Jr., who you said was an offended party in the case against Vice President Duterte. 01:08:55.440 --> 01:08:56.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:08:56.400 --> 01:09:19.210 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So, in other words, The NBI investigated and filed the complaint. The DOJ directed the investigation and will determine whether the case should proceed to court and the alleged offended party. President Marcos is the constitutional head of the executive branch exercising control over both the DOJ and the NBI. 01:09:26.450 --> 01:09:27.130 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, 01:09:31.230 --> 01:09:39.910 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you testified earlier that you investigated the Vice President in relation to the press briefing that she conducted on November 23, 2024. Yes, 01:09:39.930 --> 01:09:40.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 01:09:40.660 --> 01:09:52.060 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This investigation by the NBI Cybercrime Division was started after the conduct of the November 23, 2024 press briefing of the Vice President, correct? 01:09:52.300 --> 01:09:52.700 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:09:53.160 --> 01:10:00.420 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So basically, to put it simply, the investigation was done after the supposed incident on November 23, 2024. 01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:01.920 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The same day, sir. 01:10:02.260 --> 01:10:03.760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The same day, but after. Oy, 01:10:03.780 --> 01:10:04.140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your 01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:09.100 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, the same day, then after. Same, not responsive, Your Honor. Counsel, clarify your 01:10:09.100 --> 01:10:10.620 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: question. Same day, 01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:16.960 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: same day. The investigation was done after, later then, the supposed incident on November 23, 2024. 01:10:17.440 --> 01:10:17.800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, sir. 01:10:17.900 --> 01:10:18.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 01:10:18.660 --> 01:10:21.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You mean to say later that day? 01:10:21.100 --> 01:10:21.940 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:10:21.940 --> 01:10:25.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Because how can you investigate something that hasn't happened yet? Correct. 01:10:25.100 --> 01:10:25.320 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, 01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:25.420 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 01:10:25.700 --> 01:10:26.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please proceed. 01:10:26.900 --> 01:10:33.510 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, you're not one of the participants of the press conference on November 23, 2025, correct? 01:10:33.810 --> 01:10:34.210 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Sir. 01:10:34.610 --> 01:10:40.400 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So you do not have personal knowledge about what transpired during that press briefing, correct? 01:10:40.400 --> 01:10:42.000 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It was livestreamed, Sir. 01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:44.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You did not watch that livestream, correct? In real time? 01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:47.800 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Sir. 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:54.630 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You only acquired knowledge about it when you started investigating later that day. 01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:57.670 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:05.590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You also do not have personal knowledge of the alleged threats made by the Vice President during that press briefing. Press briefing, sorry. 01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:08.630 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: After the press briefing. After. 01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:12.790 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You only acquired knowledge about it when you started investigating. 01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:14.950 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:11:14.960 --> 01:11:27.000 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You also do not have personal knowledge of the alleged assassin that was allegedly hired by the Vice President. Personal knowledge, sir? 01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:27.910 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. 01:11:30.570 --> 01:11:45.790 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, during your testimony yesterday, you mentioned that during your investigation on the November 23, 2024 press briefing conducted by the Vice President, you preserved a copy of said press briefing through open source investigation. Correct? 01:11:47.160 --> 01:11:50.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Preserve a copy through open broadcast software studies. 01:11:50.080 --> 01:11:50.320 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay. 01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:51.500 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Thank you for the correction. 01:11:52.140 --> 01:12:04.200 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: One of the videos that you were Able to preserve in relation to your investigation is the screen recording of the November 23, 2024 press briefing conducted by the Vice President, right? 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:04.940 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:12:05.610 --> 01:12:20.850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may I move that the very same USB be unsealed and shown by the Prosecutor's Exhibit P-4-10 be unsealed and shown the witness? 01:12:25.940 --> 01:12:30.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel for the Prosecutor so instructed. Thank you, Your Honor. 01:12:48.690 --> 01:12:49.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: This 01:13:11.020 --> 01:13:13.220 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: is 01:13:16.770 --> 01:13:19.850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Exhibit P-4-10, I believe. 01:13:26.770 --> 01:13:33.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may I request that he unseal the USB and that it be allowed to be played? 01:13:34.530 --> 01:13:35.830 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Which part, Counsel? 01:13:36.190 --> 01:13:41.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, we will play various parts of the—not the whole. 01:13:43.220 --> 01:13:44.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's what I was worried about. 01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:49.680 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. We understood by the faces of the honorable members of the court. So 01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:53.380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you will play parts 01:13:53.380 --> 01:14:02.180 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: of it. And you identified, I presume, the time stamp. Yes, we have, Your Honor. I will get to that. Witness may open the seal. Thank you, Your Honor. 01:14:02.980 --> 01:14:13.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And counsel for the prosecutors is instructed to accompany counsel, one of the counsels for the respondent, in the tech booth to make sure that it's the same USB being presented. 01:14:14.270 --> 01:14:25.680 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: For the record, Your Honor, the witnesses opening the prosecution's exhibit P-4-10, Your Honor. This is the video dated November 23, 2024. 01:14:32.010 --> 01:14:33.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I open and seal the flash drive, sir? 01:14:34.270 --> 01:14:42.550 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, sir. Counsel this with understanding, okay, very much like yesterday, that this USB will again be sealed and signed by both parties. Yes, Your Honor. 01:14:44.160 --> 01:14:47.160 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may we request that this be played? 01:14:49.480 --> 01:15:07.200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Here, brother. Council for the Prosecutors, kindly accompany a representative from the Council of the Respondent to the tech booth to make sure the same USB to be played. Kindly just guide us through, Council. Atty. Narvasa, as regards to time stamps. Thank you, Your Honor. I will. Please don't forget your promise that it's not going to be the whole two hours. Yes, Your Honor. 01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:19.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Waiting. 01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:24.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge P. Aquetano, what is your pleasure, ma 01:15:24.180 --> 01:15:55.300 Sen. Pia S. Cayetano: 'am? Yes. If it's possible, Mr. President, if our Secretariat can install a I have to monitor here because I'm getting stiff neck watching this. It doesn't look nice that I'm slouched there looking this way. And then this one here is a little bit, not for videos but for the copies of affidavit, it's quite difficult. So if they can put one here, the others want another, but I can speak for those in the front row who would like to request. Thank you. 01:15:55.670 --> 01:16:08.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The Clerk of Court is instructed to kindly install a TV monitor in front of the tables of the Council for the Parties instead of at the witness stand. Both sides. 01:16:13.620 --> 01:16:16.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Underneath the table of the Council for the Parties, Senator Judge Pia. 01:16:49.410 --> 01:16:55.390 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Council, for the record and for reference, kindly identify the timestamp that you will be playing. I presume in chronological order. 01:16:55.690 --> 01:17:30.130 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, for the record, we are showing the witness a part of the video. Marked as the Prosecution's Exhibit P-4-10. First video, the timestamp around 00-01-27 to 00-02-20 of the November 23, 2023 press briefing as contained in the video that you identified yesterday, sir. Your Honor, may we ask that the video be played at those specific timestamps. 01:17:37.590 --> 01:18:13.810 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: [unclear], and then I just have to do an MR. I did an MR because they did not rule on it. And then suddenly they had an order transferring me. [unclear] to lift that order of contempt because they said that was the procedure if they were not able to rule on that. How were they able to come up with an order, you know, to transfer me to the women's correctional in the dead of the night? I mean, sir, bakit ganun? Wala na bang rights yung mga tao? They just go to your room and then just get— 01:18:16.010 --> 01:18:23.100 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: I don't understand. 01:18:23.100 --> 01:18:25.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I ask that the video be stopped? 01:18:27.200 --> 01:18:31.860 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, do you know who that is in the video that you identified? 01:18:34.010 --> 01:18:35.090 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Atty. Zuleika, 01:18:35.170 --> 01:18:44.850 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: as far as I remember, sir. Atty. Zuleika is who in relation to the vice president? You may answer not a yes or no question. 01:18:46.060 --> 01:18:49.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, she is the COS. 01:18:49.600 --> 01:19:01.140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: COS meaning Chief of Staff, right? And she is there in that video because she was cited in contempt by the House of Representatives, correct? If you are aware, you're the investigator. 01:19:03.510 --> 01:19:05.490 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Prior to the... 01:19:06.070 --> 01:19:08.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir, my question again. The witness is about 01:19:08.750 --> 01:19:09.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: to answer. The 01:19:09.610 --> 01:19:10.990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: witness was in the process of answering. 01:19:11.170 --> 01:19:17.030 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Prior to the scene, I have no personal knowledge, but based on her statement during the video, 01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:28.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Ah, so you didn't investigate the things that happened prior to the scene, correct? Yes or no? 01:19:28.400 --> 01:19:29.830 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: We haven't investigated, sir. 01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:31.670 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Mm-hm. You didn't investigate. 01:19:32.160 --> 01:19:34.230 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Oh, I did. That's why there's an [unclear], sir. 01:19:46.370 --> 01:19:55.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Bacquel What happened prior to this video, this particular clip of the video, if you know, given that you investigated the incident, as you said? 01:19:56.030 --> 01:20:02.430 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, there is a hearing in the House of Representatives. 01:20:03.390 --> 01:20:04.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: What committee, sir? 01:20:07.460 --> 01:20:08.060 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I can't 01:20:08.060 --> 01:20:09.560 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: remember the committee, sir. What happened, sir? 01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:19.520 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: COS was cited in contempt, sir. 01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:20.420 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: By who, sir? 01:20:21.330 --> 01:20:22.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I can't remember the exact, sir. 01:20:23.010 --> 01:20:47.860 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: But you investigated. I withdraw, Your Honor. Can we play, let me show you time stamps around 002832 to 002933. This is the same prosecution's exhibit P-4-10. That is the video you identified yesterday. Your Honor, may we request that that video be played? 01:21:01.240 --> 01:21:12.970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: So after you pushed back attorney, they left the room, no? Tama ba? Did they appreciate that detail accurately? 01:21:28.160 --> 01:21:43.710 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: I am not a criminal. I am already here in their facility. I have assured them already that I will attend their hearing on Monday. So why will they treat me like that? That's why I said I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. 01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:48.320 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, 01:21:49.850 --> 01:21:56.890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: did you consider this in making your evaluation in the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025? 01:21:57.410 --> 01:21:58.070 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:21:58.210 --> 01:22:17.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. Now let me show you timestamps around 003305 to 003432 of the November 23, 2023 Press Briefing as contained in the video that you identified yesterday, the Prosecutions Exhibit P-4-10. Your Honor, may we request that... 01:22:35.220 --> 01:22:56.940 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: If I did not feel that I was being threatened, my life is being threatened. And I'm sure you saw in the video that my back hurts. I cannot lift heavy things. I cannot. But dahil natakot ako, I feared for my life, I really pushed myself. 01:23:02.120 --> 01:23:07.870 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: It's not just harassment. This is really a threat to my life. 01:23:12.370 --> 01:23:15.650 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: They grabbed on you in the middle of the night? 01:23:17.290 --> 01:23:17.930 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: Huh? 01:23:19.540 --> 01:23:30.710 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: How is that done? Isn't that a threat to my life? They know that I'm sick. I have said that repeatedly when the doctor came here. 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:40.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Stop. Thank you. Sir, did you investigate the threats to Atty. Zuleika's life? 01:23:40.770 --> 01:23:44.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: We need a complaint for this one. That's why... 01:23:44.130 --> 01:23:45.630 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes or no, sir? Did you investigate? 01:23:53.750 --> 01:23:54.270 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: No 01:23:54.270 --> 01:23:56.910 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: question, sir. If the witness may be allowed to 01:23:56.910 --> 01:24:00.420 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: answer, Your Honor. I had no question. Already answered. 01:24:02.320 --> 01:24:10.060 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you consider this part in making your evaluation in the revised affidavit? Ask and 01:24:10.060 --> 01:24:11.040 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: answered. He said 01:24:11.040 --> 01:24:11.800 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: yes earlier. 01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:14.510 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This is a different part, Your Honor. This is a different part. 01:24:16.150 --> 01:24:22.890 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you consider this part in your evaluation of the revised Affidavit of Investigation dated February 10, 2025? 01:24:23.450 --> 01:24:23.810 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:24:25.170 --> 01:24:40.490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay, so despite considering these parts of the aforesaid videos, the NBI still recommended the filing of complaints for grave threats and inciting to sedition only against the Vice President. Yes? 01:24:40.830 --> 01:24:42.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I qualify my answer, sir? 01:24:42.040 --> 01:24:42.310 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No, sir. 01:24:42.370 --> 01:24:43.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes or no. 01:24:44.820 --> 01:24:46.240 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: There's a reason why we— 01:24:46.240 --> 01:25:06.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir? Your counsel may ask you questions. This is my turn. So despite considering these parts of the videos shown to you, the NBI still recommended the filing of complaints for grave threats and inciting to sedition against only the vice president. 01:25:06.730 --> 01:25:07.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:25:09.360 --> 01:25:11.080 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, in 01:25:11.530 --> 01:25:51.580 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025, In page 15, paragraph 40 thereof, it is stated there, and I quote, We unanimously believe that Vice President Duterte may be held liable for grave threats defined and penalized under Article 282 of the revised penal code inciting to sedition defined and penalized under Article 142 of the revised penal code in relation to RA 1017-5. Or the Cybercrime Prevention Act of 2012. You see that, sir, right? 01:25:51.580 --> 01:25:52.150 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:25:54.950 --> 01:26:04.310 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This conclusion was reached by you together with other affiants of the revised affidavit of investigation dated February 10, 2025, correct? 01:26:04.790 --> 01:26:05.390 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:26:06.610 --> 01:26:19.290 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Now, sir, you mentioned that you're not a lawyer, right? Ask and answered. Ask and answered. To date, we are aware... Are you aware if any court has convicted the vice president for grave threats 01:26:23.170 --> 01:26:25.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: As far as you know, 01:26:25.650 --> 01:26:26.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: not yet, sir. 01:26:26.870 --> 01:26:31.370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Not yet. Mr. Witness, as far as you know, no. 01:26:31.610 --> 01:26:32.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, 01:26:32.050 --> 01:26:32.190 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:45.340 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you, Your Honor. To date, are you aware if any court has convicted the Vice President for a sighting to sedition over what transpired on November 23, 2024? 01:26:47.650 --> 01:26:49.190 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, on my personal knowledge, sir. 01:26:49.330 --> 01:26:49.730 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. 01:26:51.580 --> 01:26:55.170 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: But you're the complainant, right? Argumentative, Your Honor. 01:26:55.710 --> 01:26:56.730 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: I was just asking. 01:26:57.410 --> 01:26:57.930 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Ask 01:26:57.930 --> 01:27:01.170 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: and answer. Argumentative. Did we withdraw your question? Improper. 01:27:01.670 --> 01:27:19.930 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Attached to the revised affidavit of investigation, which you identified and submitted to the DOJ and the Committee on Justice, is your affidavit of transcription of the press conference on November 23, 2024. I am showing you this now. For the record, Sir, Your Honor, 01:27:19.970 --> 01:27:20.090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I 01:27:20.090 --> 01:27:21.970 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: will show the... 01:27:34.250 --> 01:27:35.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, please take a look. Can 01:27:44.900 --> 01:27:47.540 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you please state it for the record? 01:27:48.040 --> 01:27:49.820 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: This is your affidavit of transcription. 01:27:59.230 --> 01:28:04.250 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Transcript. This refers to the press conference on November 23, 2024. 01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:10.380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, sir. 01:28:10.950 --> 01:28:13.490 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You signed this on December 20, 2024? 01:28:15.570 --> 01:28:16.170 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:28:16.390 --> 01:28:38.710 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, please take a look at your paragraph 2. Let's read it together. In relation to the ongoing investigation, the undersigned was tasked to transcribe the screen-recorded video of the press conference of Vice President Sara Duterte on 23 November 2024, which was saved on a DVD. You read that, sir? 01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:39.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:28:39.770 --> 01:28:52.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: On paragraph 3 thereof, let's read it together. The undersigned transcribed the video mentioned above, which resulted in a CCD transcript hereto attached. 01:28:52.020 --> 01:28:53.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:28:53.250 --> 01:29:05.260 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You read that, sir? And four: I hereby certify that the above-mentioned digital evidence has been faithfully transcribed and that it has not been edited, altered, or changed in any way. Did you read that, sir? Yes, 01:29:05.260 --> 01:29:05.360 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 01:29:05.500 --> 01:29:21.700 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And I am on number five, paragraph five, I am executing this affidavit to attest to the truth of the foregoing facts and circumstances and for whatever legal intent and purpose it may serve. Did you read that, sir? 01:29:21.920 --> 01:29:22.200 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:29:23.940 --> 01:29:29.040 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: These statements of yours, this affidavit of yours, these were all done under oath, correct? 01:29:29.340 --> 01:29:29.840 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:29:30.950 --> 01:29:50.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And you were offered as an expert in digital forensic examination with a whopping two weeks of training. Do you confirm that that transcription of the screen-recorded video of the press conference of VP Sara Duterte on the 23 November 2024 has been faithfully transcribed? 01:29:50.700 --> 01:29:55.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I don't remember that I was... Introduce us expert but a competent witness. 01:29:55.770 --> 01:29:57.370 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay sir but my question is 01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:15.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The press conference of VP Sarah Duterte that the transcription of the screen-recorded video of the press conference of VP Sarah Duterte on 23 November 2024 was faithfully transcribed by you. 01:30:15.400 --> 01:30:15.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:30:30.180 --> 01:30:37.160 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Sir, attached to this affidavit is the transcript, correct? Can you please take a look? 01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:38.280 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:30:38.900 --> 01:30:50.900 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: And Your Honor, may I ask again that the video Parts of the video be played of the press conference on November 23, 2024. Let's go through it together, sir. 01:30:53.090 --> 01:31:11.740 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: First, let's go to around timestamp 00446. Your Honor, may I request that the video be played. Sir, please. 01:31:13.740 --> 01:31:14.800 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Are you 01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:19.600 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: going to file? Are you going to trigger the filing? I am 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:38.100 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: not leaving this room. I am here in the House of Representatives detention facility for five days until the hearing on Monday. Nobody can come in here and demand to transfer me in the middle of the night. I have my rights. 01:31:40.820 --> 01:31:43.680 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: Any crime, I am not leaving this room. 01:31:44.480 --> 01:31:48.760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Stop, stop. You heard that, sir? You want to repeat it? 01:31:49.900 --> 01:31:50.740 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I heard it. 01:31:50.920 --> 01:31:59.780 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You heard it. Sir, in the first, you see also where that part is? Can you see it? 01:32:00.860 --> 01:32:03.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Start with the question with Red Mendoza, sir. 01:32:03.200 --> 01:32:07.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay, after. The Solaika Lopez. Did you hear that? 01:32:07.320 --> 01:32:07.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. 01:32:08.080 --> 01:32:08.560 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay. 01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:10.720 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mr. Witness, kindly speak to the mic. 01:32:11.180 --> 01:32:12.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:32:12.440 --> 01:32:28.760 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: You heard? She said, I am not leaving this room. I am a detainee here. Here in the House of Representatives detention facility for five days until the hearing on Monday. That is the first sentence, sir. My question is this. 01:32:30.290 --> 01:32:36.050 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Does your affidavit, does your transcript have the words, a detainee? 01:32:40.510 --> 01:32:42.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Can you repeat the video, sir? 01:32:42.250 --> 01:32:43.030 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay, let's do it. 01:32:43.860 --> 01:32:47.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Please repeat. Please play for the video again, please. 01:32:49.610 --> 01:32:58.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I am not leaving 01:32:58.110 --> 01:33:06.390 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: this room. I am a detainee here, here in the House of Representatives Detention Facility for five days. 01:33:09.130 --> 01:33:14.190 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The part that the detainee is inaudible, the only I heard. You 01:33:14.190 --> 01:33:15.010 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: heard the the, 01:33:15.070 --> 01:33:15.950 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: correct? 01:33:16.400 --> 01:33:16.950 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes. 01:33:16.950 --> 01:33:20.160 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Are the words or the sounds duh-duh? 01:33:20.160 --> 01:33:21.120 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Duh-hear-hear. 01:33:23.650 --> 01:33:25.150 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Hear-hear. Yes. 01:33:25.410 --> 01:33:26.350 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Hear-hear. Okay. 01:33:27.830 --> 01:33:46.060 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Please play. How about the last part of the paragraph? She said, I have my rights. I am not accused of any crime. I am not leaving this room. Does your paragraph in your transcript have the word accused after not? 01:33:47.630 --> 01:33:48.930 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Can you play the video, sir? 01:33:50.760 --> 01:33:54.060 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Speak to the microphone, please. Please play the video again. Speak to the microphone. Tech is 01:33:54.060 --> 01:33:57.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: instructed to play the video. Witness is instructed to speak to the mic. 01:33:58.160 --> 01:34:05.270 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: You learned to answer me in the middle of the night. I have my rights. I am not a victim 01:34:05.270 --> 01:34:08.410 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: of any crime. I am not leaving this room. 01:34:11.420 --> 01:34:12.580 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: More. Play, please. 01:34:13.140 --> 01:34:15.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Okay, ma'am. That's all, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. 01:34:15.860 --> 01:34:19.520 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Wait. Back. Any other question? 01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:29.100 Journalist on Zoom: I'm sorry, ma'am, kasi I understand. Ma'am, this is my last question and I'm very much sorry. 01:34:29.100 --> 01:34:54.350 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: I am not leaving this room. I am here in the House of Representatives detention facility for five days until the hearing on Monday. Nobody can just come in here and demand to transfer me in the middle of the night. I have my rights. I don't have any 01:34:54.870 --> 01:34:57.490 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: right to live in this room. 01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:04.450 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Is the word accused in your transcript? 01:35:04.450 --> 01:35:06.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: What I heard is root, sir. 01:35:06.100 --> 01:35:06.700 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: The root? 01:35:06.700 --> 01:35:09.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Of any crime. The root of any crime. Yes, sir. 01:35:09.250 --> 01:35:12.470 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Let's play 001238. 01:35:15.660 --> 01:35:18.120 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Can you please go to 001238? 01:35:19.980 --> 01:35:33.900 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: [unclear recorded speech] 01:35:40.650 --> 01:35:49.510 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Please. Your Honor, please. I am now registering my objection. As to the relevance, Your Honor, please, if I may explain. Of this line of questioning, Your Honor, please, if I may. 01:35:49.710 --> 01:35:52.590 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Counsel may explain his objection. Your 01:35:52.590 --> 01:36:00.630 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Honor, please. This witness already identified the video containing the 01:36:02.710 --> 01:36:06.930 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: contents of that press conference on November 23, 2024. 01:36:08.500 --> 01:36:49.890 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: And the counsel is now confronting. This witness, whether there are minuscule portions of the two-hour video like detainee, accused, whether this appear in the transcription. Now the question, the basis for the objection is irrelevant. How can it be relevant? How can it be relevant assuming but not conceding that these two minuscule words, detainee and accused, are not reflected? In the transcript, when in fact this witness said he investigated not only on the basis of the transcript, but on the basis of the video that he himself viewed, what's the relevance? 01:36:50.930 --> 01:37:00.210 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Overruled part of cross to test the accuracy and the truthfulness of the witness insofar as his transcription of the video is concerned. Thank you. Counsel may proceed. 01:37:00.530 --> 01:37:07.080 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Thank you. Please play again 001238. 01:37:15.490 --> 01:37:38.740 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: [unclear recorded speech] 01:37:43.950 --> 01:38:21.250 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: And then they called my lawyer and I really apologized. I said, you know that letter to the Commission on Audit was really a position of the agency. It is our stand. Like all, di ba? Meron kang points na gusto mo i-raise. We respectfully raised our points to the Commission on Audit. Alam ko hindi naman po yung malay kasi that was our right as an agency because there was an ongoing audit investigation. Pero hindi naman namin kinukuha. 01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:42.470 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you hear the Vice President speaking? I don't hear. Can you please play again? 01:38:43.030 --> 01:38:46.130 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Mr. Calilung, you are reminded please answer through the microphone. 01:38:46.370 --> 01:38:47.310 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Can you please play it again? 01:38:49.950 --> 01:39:01.390 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: Marca, will you let me go? So we filed our MR, they did not rule on it, but suddenly they were able to come out with an order, ruling to transfer me to the Women's Correctional. 01:39:04.750 --> 01:39:05.230 Atty. Zuleika Lopez: There. 01:39:10.150 --> 01:39:11.070 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Did you hear that? 01:39:12.470 --> 01:39:16.790 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: There are sounds, but I can't distinguish the words. Can 01:39:16.790 --> 01:39:17.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: you play it again? 01:39:18.430 --> 01:39:18.910 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your 01:39:18.910 --> 01:39:19.310 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Honor, Ash can 01:39:19.310 --> 01:39:19.790 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: answer it. 01:39:20.600 --> 01:39:23.600 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: What's the point? Okay, we're withdrawn, Your Honor. No further questions. 01:39:25.980 --> 01:39:26.460 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: No 01:39:26.460 --> 01:39:27.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: further questions. Are we done? 01:39:27.820 --> 01:39:30.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: On cross-council, do you have redirect? 01:39:30.560 --> 01:39:34.500 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Of course, Your Honor, please. For the utter failure of the... 01:39:34.500 --> 01:39:34.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was 01:39:34.760 --> 01:39:35.280 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: hoping 01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:36.660 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you won't, but... For 01:39:36.660 --> 01:39:37.380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: the utter failure 01:39:37.380 --> 01:39:38.480 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: of the respondent... 01:39:38.480 --> 01:39:46.780 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Council, before I recognize counsel for the prosecutor, Senator Judge Tulfo Rafi is recognized. Your Honor, sorry, 01:39:47.020 --> 01:39:49.500 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: may I move to strike that statement of the... 01:39:49.500 --> 01:39:55.500 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: How can it be, Your Honor? That's my manifestation. I'm about to answer the question of the presiding officer. 01:39:55.500 --> 01:40:03.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will review the journal tomorrow. I did not even hear anything. This is strikeable counsel. But we will review the journal tomorrow. 01:40:03.440 --> 01:40:06.220 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, he said for the utter failure of the respondent. 01:40:06.380 --> 01:40:07.560 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor, I said 01:40:07.560 --> 01:40:07.960 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: for 01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:18.020 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the utter failure of the respondent to debunk the material points testified to by the witness yesterday. Your Honor, he is testifying. I'm not done either. He is still testifying. I'm about to answer the question. 01:40:18.320 --> 01:40:27.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I'm not yet done with the answer. Councils, please. The presiding officer is not recognized, either of you. Thank you. Thank you. Kindly settle down. Senator Judge Rafi Tulfoy is recognized. 01:40:28.600 --> 01:40:30.120 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Sir, you may proceed. 01:40:32.190 --> 01:40:40.550 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Clarification of appointment, Mr. Presiding Officer. Mr. Witness, what is your experience with regards to social media analytics? 01:40:42.670 --> 01:40:43.770 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: I have training, sir. 01:40:44.070 --> 01:40:44.510 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: What 01:40:44.510 --> 01:40:44.970 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: kind of training? 01:40:46.590 --> 01:40:49.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have cybercrime investigation training, sir. 01:40:49.390 --> 01:41:02.980 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Are you familiar with Facebook or do you have SOCMED accounts that would make you a little bit knowledgeable when it comes to SOCMED? Yes, sir. What is your account? What is your social media account? I 01:41:02.980 --> 01:41:06.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: have an account in Facebook, in Instagram, 01:41:06.440 --> 01:41:15.440 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: in X. X. So that means pretty much you're a little bit familiar with Facebook, right? Yes, Your Honor. Okay. 01:41:17.600 --> 01:41:35.510 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: There were concerns, Mr. Witness, whether the videos presented yesterday are AI-generated or authentic. So are you experienced enough analyzing whether a video is AI-generated or authentic? Yes, Your Honor. What makes you say that? 01:41:36.710 --> 01:41:45.690 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on my experience, Your Honor, and the video itself, it's two hours long. Normally, an AI-generated video will only last a short second, sir. 01:41:46.060 --> 01:42:10.110 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So the video that was presented yesterday where we saw the VP was saying something or talking to that effect. Did you do something or what kind of system did you observe or follow to ensure whether that video was AI generated or authentic? 01:42:10.710 --> 01:42:12.370 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on personal observation, sir. 01:42:12.510 --> 01:42:13.250 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Personal observation? 01:42:13.710 --> 01:42:14.290 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:26.910 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. A few more questions. Therefore, will you be able to say that the video presented yesterday were AI-generated authentic? 01:42:28.600 --> 01:42:34.000 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The video presented today is what is being seen on the Facebook, sir. 01:42:34.840 --> 01:43:03.770 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. So based on your affidavit, you mentioned that the NBA subpoenaed some members of the media who are participants of the online press con on November 23, 2024. Yes, Your Honor. And subsequently, you said that you questioned and investigated these persons regarding the conduct of that press conference. So based on what you gathered from your investigation, so I have a few questions, right? Yes, Your Honor. Who set up the press conference? 01:43:05.070 --> 01:43:08.770 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on our interview, sir, it is the office of the Vice President, sir. 01:43:09.340 --> 01:43:13.650 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: So it wasn't spur of the moment, press conference? 01:43:16.260 --> 01:43:20.440 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I can't confirm, sir, but it's the response of the media 01:43:20.440 --> 01:43:23.720 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: personnel that we interviewed. Okay. Who invited the participants? 01:43:26.510 --> 01:43:30.450 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: If my memory serves me right, it's J. C. Kahinihinan, sir. 01:43:31.010 --> 01:43:32.170 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Who 01:43:32.170 --> 01:43:32.970 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: is J. C.? 01:43:32.970 --> 01:43:35.830 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Staff of the Office of the Vice President, sir. 01:43:35.910 --> 01:43:42.930 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. Who are the participants? And how many participants were there, if you can remember? 01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:46.500 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: As far as I remember, it's at least 40. 01:43:47.220 --> 01:43:57.700 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Forty. Okay. Were there mainstream media or anybody from the broadsheets at that time? There are, sir. There were? Yes, sir. Do you know how many 01:43:57.700 --> 01:43:58.680 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: approximately, 01:43:59.040 --> 01:43:59.580 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: give or take? 01:44:01.030 --> 01:44:05.290 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The one that we have issued subpoena, sir. At least six, sir. 01:44:06.030 --> 01:44:18.460 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Six. Okay. What was the reach of the video on that very day? Like how many views on that very day and then a few days later? Were you able to observe that? 01:44:23.850 --> 01:44:25.050 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I can't remember, sir. 01:44:25.230 --> 01:44:26.070 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: You can't remember. 01:44:27.710 --> 01:44:43.600 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: Okay. How did it spread or how did it spread in SOCMED, the videos that were presented yesterday, as far as you know, when you did an investigation? It became trending, sir. It became trending. And my last question is, 01:44:45.240 --> 01:45:02.000 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: because it was established here as inciting to sedition on top of the so-called grave threat. What were the comments that you noticed in the video? Can you give us an example? 01:45:03.130 --> 01:45:18.120 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: One of the comments, because on the video, November 23, they were mentioned about people power when asked a question by Princess Maui. And the Vice President responded, agreed. 01:45:20.710 --> 01:45:30.450 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Dahl, ang laban ay wala sa EDSA nasa Malacanang and there are responses from the comments but it's not documented. That is agreeing, sir. 01:45:30.670 --> 01:45:33.250 Sen. Raffy T. Tulfo: No further question, Mr. Presiding Officer. 01:45:34.370 --> 01:45:44.410 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Tulfo. Senator Judge Aquino thereafter, Senator Judge Pangilinan. Senator Judge Aquino has two minutes in the procedure. 01:45:44.730 --> 01:45:59.190 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Maraming salamat, Mr. Presiding Officer. Mr. Calilung, Canina may nabanggit na dalawang affidavit. Yes. Isang Januari at isang Febrari. Yung Januari ay binalik sa inyo. Tama po ba? 01:45:59.370 --> 01:45:59.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:46:00.090 --> 01:46:14.910 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: And there were seven grounds why it was returned to you. Is that correct? Seven points. May, can you narrate what are these seven points that were, that you addressed? Is that the correct term that you addressed in the second affidavit? 01:46:15.030 --> 01:46:16.090 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. Can 01:46:16.090 --> 01:46:16.690 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: you name them please? 01:46:16.990 --> 01:46:19.430 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I have the… Certificate, sir. 01:46:21.820 --> 01:46:22.180 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The 01:46:22.180 --> 01:46:25.520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: certification, was it counsel for the respondent? 01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:26.300 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, may 01:46:26.300 --> 01:46:27.840 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I... Yes, 01:46:27.940 --> 01:46:33.520 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you may approach and show him the document being alluded to by Senator Judge Aquino. 01:46:39.260 --> 01:46:52.320 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Note 1. There is no affidavit of the person who recorded the video entitled BP November 23 Prescon at Batasan through open broadcast Superstudio and in turn starred in the DVD. 01:46:53.890 --> 01:47:25.730 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Number 2. The press briefing conducted on October 18, 2024 was not recorded and or stored in DVD and there was no TSN of the said briefing and the necessary affidavit to the person taking the TSN. 3. Annex I and K DVD with markings NBICCN-C-24-12436-2 and NBI-CCN-C-24-12436-2 01:47:31.970 --> 01:48:43.400 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: 4. Annex L. did not indicate who made the TSN. There was also no affidavit of the person who made the TSN. 5. The affidavit of Juan Patricia Morales mentioned that she stored the footage in a USB and submitted to the NBI. However, the USB There was no USB attached to the complaint. Only DVD was attached. There was no detail regarding the content of this DVD. 6. Only the minutes of meeting with several personalities and representatives from various media outfits were submitted. Although the minutes were signed, there was no individual affidavit executed regarding to the contents of the said minutes. 7. One of the elements of crime of grave threat is that the offender threatens another With the infliction upon the latter's person, honor, and property, or upon that of the latter's family, or if the wrong amounting into a crime. In the instant complaint, only the NBI executed an affidavit, and there was no participation on the part of the offended party, as it appears in the NBI is not the offended party of the crime of grave threat. 01:48:43.600 --> 01:49:00.690 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay, so nakuha mo yung nagsubmit kayo, yan yung binalik sa inyo. And then you did your best to correct all those items, is that correct? Yes, Your Honor. Okay, the first six are technical, no? Yes, Your Honor. Yung panghuli is a matter of who is the offended party. Yes, Your Honor. 01:49:02.310 --> 01:49:09.170 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Hindi niyo na-correct yan? Or nung binalik ninyo, it was accepted already by the DOJ, is 01:49:09.170 --> 01:49:09.270 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: that correct? 01:49:09.270 --> 01:49:29.940 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: There is an explanation, Your Honor, that was included in the letter of the former director, Judge Jaime Santiago, sir. In the filing for preliminary investigation, it is not required for the victim to execute a complaint affidavit. 01:49:29.940 --> 01:49:29.980 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: That 01:49:29.980 --> 01:49:35.120 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: is the answer of the NBI? Yes, Your Honor. And once you submitted, it was accepted by the DOJ? 01:49:35.280 --> 01:49:41.600 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. And we received a certification, Your Honor, that our evidence is enough for preliminary investigation, Sir. 01:49:41.870 --> 01:49:45.970 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. That's the second response to the second affidavit that you provided. 01:49:46.270 --> 01:49:46.670 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:49:46.870 --> 01:50:23.680 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. There were some statements about the hitman. To be honest, the hitman's presence is heavy. So let me ask, are you the one who investigated just the video? Or did you also investigate the presence of the hitman that was being mentioned In the videos of the vice president. I was only tasked for the video, sir. Okay, may I direct this to the prosecution? Will you be presenting other witnesses that will pertain to this alleged hitman? 01:50:24.480 --> 01:50:29.490 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: As to the alleged hitman, your honor, please. Yes. 01:50:30.010 --> 01:50:37.410 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yes. So kayo, Mr. Calilung, hindi kayo nag-imbestigan yan. Wala kayong alam tungkol dun sa presensya ng hitman. 01:50:37.710 --> 01:50:38.210 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 01:50:38.330 --> 01:50:44.090 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Okay. Mr. President, I will refrain from my questions and wait for the witness pertaining to the hitman. Thank you very much. 01:50:44.490 --> 01:50:51.110 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted and entered in the records, Senator Judge Pangilinan, thereafter, Senator Judge Ontiveros, and then Senator Judge Villanueva. 01:50:51.760 --> 01:50:56.220 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 01:50:57.780 --> 01:51:10.060 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: The question is to the witness. Earlier, the defense counsel or counsel for the respondents asked you If you are an attorney, your answer is no. 01:51:10.340 --> 01:51:10.860 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Are 01:51:10.860 --> 01:51:15.600 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: you a degree holder? Yes, Your Honor. What is a degree? 01:51:17.000 --> 01:51:23.020 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Bachelor of Science in Accountancy, Bachelor of Science in Accounting Technology, and I am a Certified Public Accountant, Sir. 01:51:23.180 --> 01:51:41.050 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: So you are a Certified Public Accountant? Yesterday, I asked you about training because you mentioned that you had training. You mentioned yesterday that you had two weeks of training. But on what matter? Only on photo and video 01:51:41.050 --> 01:51:41.870 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: authentication, sir. 01:51:41.990 --> 01:52:04.930 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. Are there other trainings that you went through as an expert or competent witness in the field of digital technology, cybersecurity, online training? Yes, Your Honor. What are these? 01:52:06.100 --> 01:52:33.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I mentioned that I have a training in Certified Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator. I have a training in computer forensic, mobile forensic, and photo and video authentication training. I have also training in cyber crime investigation. We also undergone a 480 hours training on cybersecurity. And a training before we start the bureau, we have undergone the NBI Academy, which 01:52:35.070 --> 01:52:38.550 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Teach us all the aspects in investigation, sir. 01:52:39.190 --> 01:52:46.250 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay, and siguro last question. Ang training na ito puro local ba? O meron ding training sa ibang bansa? 01:52:46.630 --> 01:52:49.500 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have an international, sir, recently. 01:52:49.500 --> 01:52:50.800 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Ano yan? 01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:54.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It's a training in Strasbourg. 01:52:54.900 --> 01:52:59.230 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Okay. The name of the training is... 01:53:03.810 --> 01:53:05.930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Saan lugar na lang, Mr. Whitman? Strasbourg, 01:53:06.030 --> 01:53:06.290 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Germany? 01:53:07.740 --> 01:53:08.540 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Strasbourg, France, 01:53:08.660 --> 01:53:08.840 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: sir. 01:53:09.610 --> 01:53:11.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It's a five-day training, sir. 01:53:12.500 --> 01:53:18.180 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: And meron pang ibang international seminars na inattendan mo? International, 01:53:18.400 --> 01:53:18.760 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir, 01:53:18.840 --> 01:53:19.080 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: but 01:53:19.080 --> 01:53:19.880 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: it is conducted 01:53:19.880 --> 01:53:20.560 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: locally, 01:53:20.740 --> 01:53:21.620 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: the Interpol, sir. 01:53:22.080 --> 01:53:26.520 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Interpol? Yes, Your Honor. Okay. I have no further questions. Thank you, Senator 01:53:26.520 --> 01:53:26.880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge 01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:27.260 Sen. Francis “Kiko” Pangilinan: Molina. 01:53:27.280 --> 01:53:30.940 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Ontiveros is recognized. You may proceed, ma'am, and you have two minutes. 01:53:34.870 --> 01:53:36.470 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Salamat po, Mr. Presiding Officer. 01:53:40.110 --> 01:54:09.980 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: Para sa Counsel for the Defense, Mr. Presiding Officer, just for clarity, ano pong relevance nung video na ipinakita ni Atty. Zuleika Lopez? Sinasabi po ba ng depensa na 'yung mga alleged threats o alleged incitements ni VP Duterte ay prompted nung detensyon ni Atty. Lopez? 01:54:11.280 --> 01:55:09.780 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. There was a systematic oppression made by the House of Representatives dating back from their, um, their—even before their mini trial, Your Honor. Their, uh, the committee headed by Representative Joel Chua began investigating the Vice President and her people. Even when Atty. Zuleika Lopez was being interviewed by the House Quad Com Committee, Your Honor, even if she was answering the questions faithfully and to the best of her ability, she was cited in contempt, detained. Her lawyer was not allowed to be with her when they were trying to detain her in the women's correctional facility, Your Honor. 01:55:10.370 --> 01:55:28.630 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: So, Mr. Presiding Officer, counsel for the defense, is the defense in a position to overcome alleged grave threats if there is a legitimate reason to guard? 01:55:32.260 --> 01:55:34.140 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, that is not the point. 01:55:34.790 --> 01:56:21.510 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: No, no, no. Mr. Presiding Officer, I am making a point through my question, and I am asking the good counsel for the defense, dahil sinabi nila there was a systematic oppression, that yes, yan po ang nag-prompt nung alleged grave threats and alleged incitements ng Vice President, nag-prompt po ng detensyon ni Atty. Lopez na kanyang inilarawan sa ipinakitang video kanina. So I am asking if that is the position of the defense that it is okay or it is acceptable to accept grave threats if there is a legitimate reason to guard. Yes, 01:56:21.510 --> 01:56:21.810 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. 01:56:21.950 --> 01:56:23.410 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Mr. President. 01:56:27.710 --> 01:56:28.190 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: No, 01:56:28.270 --> 01:56:30.590 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor. I was just referring to before. 01:56:30.590 --> 01:57:22.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We would like to remind the senator judges to be cautious in making counsels for either party. Make conclusions of law and fact. Instead of presenting evidence through a witness, they will present or through direct, cross, redirect, or recross. Because if he answers, Senator Judge Diveros, That would effectively place on record a conclusion of fact and law, not drawn from a witness, which they can very well do so during their closing remarks. And when I allow them to speak by way of repartee to the preparation yesterday and discussion yesterday by counsel for the prosecution. But other than that, as agreed with some of the senator judges, we would try to limit the answers of the counsels for the parties. With your indulgence, Senator Judge Ontiveros, please. I 01:57:22.450 --> 01:58:14.910 Sen. Risa Hontiveros: submit, Mr. Presiding Officer. May I just in closing make of record that I also appreciated and also submitted to the ruling of the Presiding Officer yesterday because I appreciated that it partook of the history of impeachment proceedings in this court. I also carefully studied the past impeachment trials and found that Pati noon, naging liberal ang pagpapahintulot nila sa mga katanungan. Katanungan ng mga senator judges para lang mas maliwanagan ang iba't ibang punto. So I again thank the good presiding officer and again reiterate my submission to his ruling and thank the good counsel for the defense for his response. 01:58:15.070 --> 01:58:23.330 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We thank Senator Antiveros for her indulgence and understanding. Senator Villanueva and thereafter, Senate President Gachalian. 01:58:25.390 --> 01:58:27.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 01:58:27.850 --> 01:59:50.230 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you, Mr. President, Mr. Presiding Officer. May I just point out something to the witness? Mr. President, Your Honors, the witness mentioned yesterday that reported statements of the Vice President were referred to the Presidential Security Command and evaluated in coordination with the National Security Council. Just to assist the court in evaluating the relevance and weight of the government security response in determining whether the respondent's conduct constitutes an impeachable offense, may we know from the witness, could the witness explain how threats against the president are ordinarily assessed? By the government. Kasi o, dito yung lumalabas yung pag-weigh natin whether or not meron bang bigat iyong threat o ito'y ordinaryong threat na nangyayari sa pang-araw-araw nating buhay. Specifically, Mr. Witness, what factors are taken into account in evaluating a reported threat and in determining appropriate measures? 01:59:51.360 --> 01:59:58.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Oo. I can't answer on the part of the NSC or DNO because I'm not part of the institution. 02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:01.400 Sen. Joel Villanueva: In your capacity as an agent? 02:00:01.420 --> 02:00:11.560 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: In my capacity, one of the considerations, if it's an active threat, if it's the one giving the threat is capable of doing so. 02:00:12.380 --> 02:00:12.900 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Meaning? 02:00:14.180 --> 02:00:15.260 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: High-ranking 02:00:15.260 --> 02:00:16.360 Sen. Joel Villanueva: officials, and if 02:00:16.360 --> 02:00:17.140 Sen. Joel Villanueva: you say an official? 02:00:17.140 --> 02:00:25.520 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: A capability or power to implement such threat, it is considered, sir. 02:00:25.740 --> 02:00:42.900 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Example, a mayor, perhaps? Would you say a high-ranking official? A congressman? Or yung basihan po ng kanyang threat? Kunyari ang threat ko, dadalhin kita doon sa buwan. Wala naman akong space shuttle. So wala din pong bearing yun. Is that the correct assumption? 02:00:44.780 --> 02:00:57.680 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Not only, sir, but also how it was delivered, sir. Like what was mentioned in the, that I mentioned previously, it was mentioned that no joke, no joke. It's a serious. 02:00:58.420 --> 02:00:59.360 Sen. Joel Villanueva: So that is the 02:00:59.360 --> 02:01:00.220 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: consideration. 02:01:01.600 --> 02:01:12.860 Sen. Joel Villanueva: Thank you very much. And lastly, Mr. Witness, you made mention na submit mo sa DOJ nung January 30. Is it the same affidavit that you submitted to the HOR? 02:01:14.480 --> 02:01:19.000 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The one that submitted to the HOR is the affidavit dated February, sir. 02:01:19.550 --> 02:01:20.550 Sen. Joel Villanueva: So, that's the latest. 02:01:20.950 --> 02:01:24.230 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. The one that complied with the requirements of the DOJ, sir. Thank 02:01:24.230 --> 02:01:27.010 Sen. Joel Villanueva: you very much for that clarification. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank 02:01:27.010 --> 02:01:51.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Senator Villanueva. Before I recognize Senate President Gachalian and thereafter, Senator Erwin Tulfo, may I remind Atty. Narvasa that your five minutes, you'll be given your five minutes after the questions of the Senator judges and before we recognize the counsel for the prosecutor for his redirect. Second President, Gachal Yanes, recognized. You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 02:01:51.300 --> 02:01:55.750 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: May I be clarified? I believe that we would do it after re-cross. 02:01:55.750 --> 02:01:58.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I heard cross. After re-cross. 02:01:58.900 --> 02:02:00.470 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. 02:02:00.530 --> 02:02:01.090 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Better for us? 02:02:01.310 --> 02:02:14.390 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. I just have a few questions. Clarificatory questions. Narinig ko kanina ginong testigo na nasabi niyo may 40 media personalities doon sa Prescon. Tama po ba? 02:02:14.770 --> 02:02:15.450 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:02:15.710 --> 02:02:18.560 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero ang inyong inibitahan, Anim lang? 02:02:18.900 --> 02:02:19.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:02:20.060 --> 02:02:21.600 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Bakit anim lang? 02:02:21.600 --> 02:02:36.060 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The 40, we see the number of participants but the number of person who ask the vice president during that time, it's limited. And we consider who we sure that is present during that time, Your Honor. 02:02:39.560 --> 02:02:58.920 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Mayroon bang kayong criteria kung paano pipiliin itong? Ang mga media personalities or kung sino lang ang nagtanong? Kasi kahit hindi ka naman magtatanong, nandoon ka naman, naririnig mo yung mga diskusyon, meron ba kayong mga criteria kung paano pumipili ng media personalities? 02:03:00.360 --> 02:03:08.160 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yung sure po namin na present during that time. Kasi kapag hindi po kasi kayo nagtanong, hindi po magpa-pop up yung mukha nyo tsaka yung pangalan nyo. 02:03:09.040 --> 02:03:19.160 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay. At... Itong mga anim na sinupinan ninyo, ano yung kanyang common statement na ibinigay? 02:03:19.820 --> 02:03:28.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Kinonfirm po nila na present sila during the November 23, 2024 press conference and yung utterance po ni Vice President narinig po nila. 02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:57.650 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Okay, I believe ilan dito sa mga personalities ay ipapatawag rin. So tatalon ako sa ibang topic. Nakita ko kanina itong tungkol sa Atty. Max Corr Interventures At nakita ko kanina, pinakita yung Articles of Incorporation, mukha siyang supplier ng equipment. Ngayon nasabi rin na doon ka nag-training for two weeks. Sino nagbayad nung training? 02:03:58.890 --> 02:04:12.340 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Sir, the training is included in the procurement of digital forensic tools. In the procurement document, ni-require po si MaxCorp na mag-provide po ng training included in the equipment, sir. 02:04:12.340 --> 02:04:13.800 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yung paggamit ng equipment? 02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:17.570 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Tsaka yung ano po, yung process po ng digital forensic as a whole. 02:04:17.950 --> 02:04:43.010 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Yung kanya lang, sila ba ay... Diba sa mga IT, let's say Oracle, alam natin kilala yan pagdating sa IT. Si MaxCore ba ay kilala pagdating sa digital forensic training? Kasi sa alam, nakita ko kanina talagang supplier sila but are they a well-known or internationally renowned training organization? 02:04:45.690 --> 02:04:53.510 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It is not the MAC score itself, but it's the trainer that they provide, sir, that is capable in training us, sir. 02:04:54.050 --> 02:04:59.290 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Itong trainer na ito, certified siya in this type of technology? 02:04:59.810 --> 02:05:04.550 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. The trainer has a lot of certifications in relation to digital forensics, sir. 02:05:04.650 --> 02:05:08.670 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Can you name a few certifications na meron itong trainer na ito? 02:05:09.610 --> 02:05:12.190 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Oo. I can't remember, sir. Let's 02:05:12.190 --> 02:05:15.050 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: say Oracle or let's say Microsoft, di ba? May mga ganyan yan. 02:05:15.050 --> 02:05:27.070 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. CompTIA, sir. CompTIA training. I believe he also have a certified ethical hacking certification and a lot more, sir. When it was presented to us, sir. 02:05:27.310 --> 02:05:35.810 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Alright. So, itong mga trainers nito ay certified trainers na pwedeng mag-train sa iyo at magiging certified ka rin. 02:05:36.300 --> 02:05:37.620 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. In-issue na akong certificate. 02:05:37.780 --> 02:05:44.760 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Lastly, Mr. Presiding Officer, after training, nakakuha ka ba ng certification na katulad sa kanila? 02:05:45.600 --> 02:05:49.360 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, sir. But that certification that I was trained by them, sir. 02:05:49.680 --> 02:05:59.140 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Pero ikaw mismo, are you certified to do forensic examinations for your purpose and responsibility? 02:05:59.790 --> 02:06:04.910 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have a certification, sir. I am a certified computer hacking forensic investigator, sir. 02:06:04.990 --> 02:06:10.150 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Itong forensic analysis, meron kang, for this purpose, itong pinag-uusapan natin. 02:06:10.230 --> 02:06:15.650 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The computer, the authentication, sir, part, or as a whole, sir? 02:06:15.650 --> 02:06:17.180 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: As a whole, as a whole. 02:06:18.000 --> 02:06:23.600 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have a certification in computer hacking, sir. Specific. But I have trainings in relation to the— 02:06:23.600 --> 02:06:32.040 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: Iba yung hacking eh. Yung pinag-uusapan natin forensic examination ng video, forensic examination ng mga ganitong bagay. Meron kang certification doon? 02:06:32.260 --> 02:06:32.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have 02:06:32.820 --> 02:06:33.460 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: certificate, sir. 02:06:33.680 --> 02:06:35.600 Sen. Sherwin T. Gatchalian: All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. 02:06:35.860 --> 02:06:39.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo, thereafter, Senator Judge Marcos. 02:06:40.990 --> 02:06:42.850 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You may proceed, sir. You have two minutes. 02:06:45.080 --> 02:06:48.640 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Maraming salamat, Mr. Chair, Mr. Presiding Officer. 02:06:50.470 --> 02:06:52.670 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Ang katanungan ko po ay para sa ating testigo. 02:06:54.790 --> 02:07:20.710 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Batid ko po na sa ilalim ng Republic Act 108-67, sa ilalim po ng Section 4, ang kapangyarihan po ng inyong ahensya na mag-imbestiga kapag na mga krimen particular na tulad ng mga banta sa buhay ng Pangulo, ikalawang Pangulo, Senate President, Speaker of the House, at Chief Justice. Tama po iyon. Yes, Your Honor. 02:07:23.190 --> 02:07:48.090 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Lalo pa at pag ito ay may kaugnayan sa national security, tama po? Yes, Your Honor. Pero ang tanong ko po, ang pagsasampa po ba ng kaso, nasa mandato rin po ba ng NBI na magsampa ng kaso doon sa mga tao na nagbanta sa buhay ng Pangulo, ikalawang Pangulo, Senate President, Speaker of the House, Chief Justice, is it automatic? 02:07:50.780 --> 02:08:10.900 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Or kailangan mag-request sila sa inyo? Matic ba yung pagsasampa ng kaso doon sa nagbanta in this case? Is it automatic or wala lang? Kasama sa mandato niyo to file charges dahil binantaan mo Pangulo o si Vice Presidente kung sino man yung apat na matataas na opisyal natin or limang matataas opisyal natin. 02:08:11.180 --> 02:08:32.010 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Ang basis namin doon, Your Honor, is the primary objective namin to investigate cases—the threat to the President, Vice President, Senate President, Supreme Court—and if we found that the evidence is enough that there is a crime committed, we will file a case because that's the output of our investigation. 02:08:32.010 --> 02:08:46.670 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: [unclear] 02:08:47.820 --> 02:09:20.990 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: Yes, Your Honor. Okay. Hindi niyo na siya kailangan tanungin pa na, sir, gusto niyo po bang kasuhan namin ito? Wala nang ganun. You will never ask. Sabihin natin, hindi lang Pangulo. Vice Presidente. Nangyari din sa Vice Presidente o sa Speaker of the House, sa Senate President o sa Chief Justice. Hindi niyo naman lang siya afford to ask him, like, sir, will you go through the process? Kasi magpa-file ka po ng mga affidavit. This is a long process, etc. Kahit na Pangulo ka po, may pipirmahan ka mga affidavit. Is it automatic, Mr. Witness? 02:09:21.350 --> 02:09:25.970 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: We submitted it, sir, even without a complaint for preliminary investigation, sir. 02:09:26.530 --> 02:09:29.030 Sen. Erwin Tulfo: No further questions, Mr. President. 02:09:29.050 --> 02:09:34.770 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Erwin Tulfo. Senator Judge Marcos is recognized. You may proceed, ma'am, and you have two minutes. 02:09:35.240 --> 02:10:13.650 Sen. Imee Marcos: Yes, maraming salamat. Mahal na naman muna. Hihingi lang po ako ng dokumento para mas madali nating sundan ang mga pangyayari. Nalilito lahat pagkat wala po kaming papel. At ang nabigay sa amin, eto, Annex FFFGGG. Nalilito po kami kung alin dito yung mga papel. Kung maaari kaming bigyan, unang-una, yung unang tinutukoy, the first affidavit of investigation dated January 30 alleging grave threats inciting to sedition ng NBI. Ikalawa, yung napasok na yata sa record pero nais rin namin bilang senator-judge na magkaroon ng kopya nung DOJ 02:10:15.230 --> 02:12:04.480 Sen. Imee Marcos: Certification signed by Prosecutor Bandung, February 5, na nagbigay ng 7 grounds na insufficient for preliminary investigation. Ikatlo, yung naibigay na, ito klaro to, naibigay po ni Mavic at ng iba pang staff natin, yung February 10, yung ikalawang amended na ibinigay na revised affidavit of authentication, February 11. Ngunit sabi ni Testigo Calilung na merong kasama ito na wala rito sa record natin at sana maibigay si Sen. Judge. Ito yung sulat kasama nung Second Revised Affidavit of Authentication. Ito naman yung sinasabing sulat ni Santiago Que... Fadulyon ng DOJ na nagsasaad na hindi kailangan na may private complainant yung sina presidente, ang first lady, at saka yung dating speaker dahil base sa kaso ng Santos Concho versus DOJ na 2008 eh hindi daw kailangan yung private complainant. May we also have a copy of the same. Finally, may we urge that a copy also be given of February 14 certification of DOJ asserting that the revised affidavit of investigation was finally sufficient. Nais lang namin makita yun at alamin yung investigation data huling-huli nung March 7, almost a month after the submission of the Affidavit of Authentication kasi halos isang buwan bago utusan na magkaroon ng investigation data form. Sana may kopya rin tayo noon. 02:12:05.500 --> 02:12:08.500 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: To respond to Senator Judge Marcos, 02:12:10.490 --> 02:12:55.920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What the court has copies of are the pre-marked documents that the parties pre-marked during pre-trial, but not documents that have not yet been pre-marked. Most of the documents he mentioned that was discussed by counsel for respondent has not yet been pre-marked. They only used it to confront via cross-examination the witness of the prosecution. But the ones we have, We will furnish you with a reminder, of course, Senator Judge Marcos, that these documents have not yet been formally offered by either party and we still have to await formal offer before the court rules on the admissibility, if at all, of these documents. But we will endeavor to furnish the good Senator Judge with whatever the Clerk has. 02:12:56.500 --> 02:13:13.360 Sen. Imee Marcos: Yes, if we could be provided with whatever the clerk has and adequately identified, not as GGGGG or FFFFF. At sana kung mabuo yung mga dokumentong sinasabi sa lalong madaling panahon. Maraming salamat. 02:13:13.500 --> 02:13:22.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: We will endeavor to comply as best we can, Senator Judge Marcos. Senator Judge Alan Cayetano, what is your pleasure, sir? 02:13:25.930 --> 02:13:35.430 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Sir President and Mr. Presiding Officer, before I ask to be allowed to ask a question, can I just follow up yung kay Sen. Marcos, including the ruling yesterday? 02:13:37.930 --> 02:13:49.790 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Just in the interest of all Sen. Judges being able to follow closely, especially kami sa first row kasi medyo nagkaka-stiff neck na kami. Mahirap tignan yung… 02:13:51.870 --> 02:14:11.230 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Maglalagay na po kami ng TV sa harap ng lanyasan ng Council for Parties. I think all of us own a iPad or a tablet. I don't know what the solution is, but if the Secretariat or the Clerk of Court, the Office of the Clerk of Court can work with our staff. 02:14:15.740 --> 02:14:45.480 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Just to give you an example for today, if you look at the impeachment complaint, On page 19, for example, it says that the affidavit we're looking for kanina, footnote number 72, is this one. In the impeachment complaint, it's found on Annex G. So this is Annex G. 02:14:48.400 --> 02:14:53.610 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: If you look at Annex G, it is a certification, not an affidavit. 02:14:55.530 --> 02:15:00.090 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So where do you find the affidavit mentioned in 02:15:02.270 --> 02:15:03.730 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: the impeachment complaint? 02:15:07.130 --> 02:15:22.220 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: You actually find it in Volume 14, Annex F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. Dash G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. So before I can even say that... 02:15:22.220 --> 02:15:25.440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. to G. G. G. G. G. G. G. Yes. 02:15:25.900 --> 02:16:26.780 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So even before we finish saying that... Your Honor, Mr. Presiding Judge, medyo mahirap. To further complicate, the annexes when delivered to us was labeled annexes and then when it was pre-marked, iba na yung marking. That is correct. Okay. So, to clarify, I'm not asking both the prosecution and defense to give us any documents in advance that will prejudice their presentation or their rebuttal. I do understand that it has to be offered but to speed things up and to make sure we understand in the same manner that they're asking the witness to examine it maybe we can be given a copy to examine at the same time whether digital or actual copy I don't want to impose upon them to print 24 copies but again anyway it's Wednesday we have Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday for our staff and the clerk of court to meet I think we 02:16:26.780 --> 02:16:54.050 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: already have a solution for you, Senator Judge Cayetano, as well as for Senator Judge Marcos. We will be furnishing the parties either via soft copy to their respective iPads or laptops or we will enter their official emails as well. Kayo na po mag-print ng hard copy ng list of evidences as marked, as pre-marked by the prosecution na ipe-present. Atty. 02:17:06.510 --> 02:17:07.910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: R. 02:17:10.250 --> 02:17:21.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ligutan, Atty. 02:17:21.750 --> 02:17:21.770 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: J. 02:17:23.450 --> 02:17:50.130 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Even if it's premarked, if it will prejudice their presentation, I don't mind it be given in real time. And same, if it's being used on cross or recross on rebuttal and hindi ito na premarked, as long as real time, para lang we can process it. If not, we have to review afterwards and it messes up our preparation for the hearing the next day. Is that possible for the parties once the roles are reversed? 02:17:50.370 --> 02:17:52.570 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May I get a response from the Counsel for Respondent? 02:17:53.050 --> 02:18:00.190 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, first we'll clarify everything that was showed today was pre-marked by the respondent. 02:18:00.370 --> 02:18:19.910 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: That's not my understanding because the DOJ letter you pre-marked is different from the DOJ letter that we have pre-marked. But we'll verify. So everything was pre-marked? Yes, Your Honor. But you presented a document that was not pre-marked either by the prosecution or the defense. Walang marking eh? 02:18:20.210 --> 02:18:23.390 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: I presented all that. So if it 02:18:23.390 --> 02:18:23.650 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: was pre 02:18:23.650 --> 02:18:25.020 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: -marked, it's our lookout. 02:18:25.020 --> 02:18:28.930 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Then kindly, there's no problem furnishing the senator-judges with a copy of the same. 02:18:29.110 --> 02:18:30.330 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: We have no problem with that, Your Honor. 02:18:30.390 --> 02:18:47.270 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator-Judge Anad Quetano's concern has no basis if it was all pre-marked, apparently. It was our oversight. Counsel for the prosecutors, would that be possible? Yes. To furnish it? I think what counsel for respondent did earlier helped us out a lot. 02:18:48.810 --> 02:18:59.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Plastering it on the screens, whatever, affidavit. You were presenting. I think Council for the Prosecutors should do the same. Di naman bawal magkumpiahan dito eh. Okay lang. 02:18:59.950 --> 02:19:06.110 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Senator Judge Caetano. Thank you. And just to clarify, the two minutes is the question, not including the answer. 02:19:06.610 --> 02:19:07.150 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You 02:19:07.150 --> 02:19:07.470 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: have two 02:19:07.470 --> 02:19:08.370 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: minutes if you want to 02:19:08.370 --> 02:19:08.810 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: start with 02:19:08.810 --> 02:19:09.710 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: asking questions. 02:19:09.850 --> 02:19:27.860 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: If they ask to repeat the question, please don't count that. Two minutes is long with short questions but many of us... A question 02:19:27.860 --> 02:19:30.260 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: for 02:19:30.260 --> 02:19:46.960 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: the witness and maybe to put all of us in check. I don't mind if any of the council says the medyo hindi maayos yung question. I mean given what happened yesterday and today and there are questions that could prejudice the case either way. 02:19:48.650 --> 02:20:04.360 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: As long as we call each other out respectfully to the both councils, you cannot correct a senator-judge but I don't mind if you think it prejudices. That's your duty to your client. So this isn't the start of the two minutes yet. 02:20:06.610 --> 02:20:08.350 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Magandang hapon, Mr. Witness. 02:20:08.350 --> 02:20:09.450 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Good afternoon, Your Honor. 02:20:09.450 --> 02:20:32.510 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Medyo mahaba na yung pag-upo mo dyan but allow me a few questions. Yung circumstance lang, so paano nagsimula yung investigasyon? Na na-involve ka. Were you from the start o hindi? At written instructions ba to? O sinabi, oh may investigation tayo? Just konting clarity, paano na umpisa yung specific investigation? And was it based on the November 3 video? Tama ba? 02:20:32.730 --> 02:20:46.010 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: November 23, Your Honor. Okay. It all started, I received a phone call, sir, from my executive officer that there is a video wherein there is a statement given by the vice president. 02:20:47.750 --> 02:20:53.750 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Which is classified as threat and I was tasked and assigned to investigate the case, sir. 02:20:53.870 --> 02:20:59.510 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Okay. So basically ganun yung pagkasabi na I'm asking you to look at the video, investigate. 02:20:59.970 --> 02:21:00.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, your honor. 02:21:00.790 --> 02:21:02.800 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Were you working alone or with a group? 02:21:02.800 --> 02:21:04.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: With a group, your honor. 02:21:04.250 --> 02:21:05.250 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: NBI group? 02:21:05.250 --> 02:21:06.220 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, your honor. 02:21:06.220 --> 02:21:10.770 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And was this, is there an interagency also or just purely NBI? 02:21:11.330 --> 02:21:18.110 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I don't have personal knowledge. Maybe our chief, sir, has the knowledge on that, sir. That's all I asked for naman, yung personal 02:21:18.110 --> 02:21:18.510 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: knowledge. 02:21:18.690 --> 02:21:19.270 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: So, 02:21:19.330 --> 02:21:28.870 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: pakiulit mo yung sinabing, how exactly sinabi sa'yo na tignan mo yung video, imbistigaan mo, or may statement? 02:21:30.370 --> 02:21:35.410 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: To be specific, sir, as far as I remember, may 02:21:37.040 --> 02:21:49.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: statement si Vice President regarding the November 23 press conference na kung saan. May pagbabanta na naganap. Pakiimbestigahan. 02:21:50.190 --> 02:21:54.300 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Pakiimbestigahan. So ganun ka-general? May pagbabantang naganap, pakiimbestigahan? 02:21:54.300 --> 02:21:55.000 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes po. 02:21:55.000 --> 02:21:56.900 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And you proceeded by watching the video? 02:21:56.900 --> 02:21:57.750 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:21:57.750 --> 02:22:01.070 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And when you watched the video, you got to the part na may pagbabanta? 02:22:01.570 --> 02:22:06.590 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, Your Honor. I first don't know which part of that. 02:22:06.590 --> 02:22:08.330 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So you watched the whole video, of course? 02:22:08.330 --> 02:22:13.270 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: First the clippings, Your Honor. Then I looked for the whole video, Your Honor. 02:22:13.620 --> 02:22:14.670 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Then you watched the whole video? 02:22:14.670 --> 02:22:15.320 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:22:15.320 --> 02:22:25.440 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And thank you for your honesty. So after the clipping, tapos the whole video, what did you do next? You reported or you made your recommendations? I don't understand the process lang kasi. 02:22:26.640 --> 02:22:32.260 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Upon identifying the whole video, I informed my executive officer that I identified the video, Your Honor. 02:22:32.900 --> 02:22:40.280 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And then yung sinabi mo yesterday, then you started looking for patterns. That's why you looked at yung dating mga video ni Vice President. 02:22:40.650 --> 02:22:41.090 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:22:41.270 --> 02:22:47.850 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So you started investigating the threat against the President, the First Lady, and the former Speaker of the House. 02:22:48.050 --> 02:22:48.450 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:22:48.610 --> 02:22:53.570 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Did you investigate the threat against the Vice President? We tried, Your Honor. How did you try? 02:22:54.090 --> 02:22:57.430 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: It is included in our letter to the Vice President, Your Honor. 02:22:58.950 --> 02:23:04.470 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: That's why we're inviting her to proceed to our office to investigate the threats to her life, Your Honor. 02:23:04.970 --> 02:23:12.900 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: How about the vlogger who asked her about Oplan or whatever they call that Romanov, did you invite them? 02:23:12.900 --> 02:23:13.650 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:23:13.650 --> 02:23:15.010 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And did they testify? 02:23:15.670 --> 02:23:18.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The Princess Maui did not appear, Your Honor. Did not 02:23:18.610 --> 02:23:19.470 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: appear. Did 02:23:19.470 --> 02:23:20.070 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: you also look 02:23:20.070 --> 02:23:25.330 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: for previous videos that are threatening to the Vice President? 02:23:27.980 --> 02:23:37.540 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: We looked on the Romanov part, Your Honor. But we identified a different person who first mentioned the Romanov, Your Honor. 02:23:37.540 --> 02:23:39.850 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Did you coordinate with the PSG? 02:23:39.850 --> 02:23:42.150 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have no personal knowledge, your honor. 02:23:42.150 --> 02:23:43.030 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: You yourself? 02:23:43.410 --> 02:23:44.880 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, your honor. Maybe our chief, your honor. 02:23:44.880 --> 02:23:51.330 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: But you are aware that the primary responsibility of protecting both the president and the vice president is the PSG? 02:23:51.570 --> 02:23:52.110 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, your honor. 02:23:52.290 --> 02:24:04.850 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So isn't it fair to say that any investigation against a threat to the first family, the president or the vice president, you would normally ask the PSG if they received any threat? 02:24:06.990 --> 02:24:08.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have no personal knowledge, Your Honor. 02:24:08.850 --> 02:24:19.700 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: I'm asking, hindi ba normal sa investigation kung sino yung primary agency na taga-protekta na lumalaban dun sa threat ay tatanungin natin? 02:24:19.700 --> 02:24:21.060 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:24:21.060 --> 02:24:26.460 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: So bakit hindi tinanong ng NBI ang PSG? Or in your case, why didn't you ask the PSG? 02:24:30.020 --> 02:24:32.700 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Maybe it can be answered by ICHIP, Your Honor. 02:24:33.000 --> 02:25:05.450 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: No, I'm not... I will ask your chief also I'm asking you when they said look at this you looked at other videos you tried to get Princess Maui you tried to get the vice president but you didn't contact the PSG for the first lady for the president and for you know for for all you know the PSG will tell you right there and there the threat is real or the PSG will say politika lang yan diba both The Vice President and the President are protected by the PSG. So why wasn't... So nakalimutan lang or wala sa procedure niyo or... 02:25:05.450 --> 02:25:13.230 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor, there's already a statement from the National Security Council, Your Honor, that it is an active threat, Your Honor. That's why we start investigation. 02:25:13.730 --> 02:26:15.650 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Yes, and the primary group that will know if it's an active threat is the PSG. So if this was the United States, it will be the Secret Service. So, whether the FBI or the CIA, state troopers, the federal marshals, kung sino man mag-iimbestiga, parati nilang tatanungin yung Secret Service. So, I'm just curious why we did not ask the PSG input. Kindly wind up, Sen. Gaetano. Sen. Judge Gaetano. So, my last question is, how did you characterize the threat of the Vice President to the President? Given that ang exact words niya, wag kang mag-alamam sa security ko kasi may kinausap na ang tao, sinabi ko sa kanya, kapag pinatay ako. So, I'll be fair to you and not vague, no? Did that phrase, kapag pinatay ako, have any bearing in your investigation? 02:26:16.250 --> 02:26:16.910 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:26:17.230 --> 02:26:19.850 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: And what was that bearing or thoughts in your mind? 02:26:20.350 --> 02:26:29.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: First of all po, dun sa statement, may nakausap na po. It already took place before pa yung mangyari yung meeting. Excuse me, 02:26:29.820 --> 02:26:36.080 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: I'm not talking about yung may kinausap na para pumatay. Ang sinasabi ko, yung sinabi niya na pag pinatay ako. 02:26:36.300 --> 02:26:37.080 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:26:37.100 --> 02:26:38.980 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: How did that affect your 02:26:38.980 --> 02:26:39.970 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: investigation? 02:26:39.970 --> 02:27:10.110 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: There is a condition na kapag pinatay siya. But as we can see, it's only applicable if there is only two parties. The statement make a loophole wherein a third party can use that Kapag namatay si BP, ma-execute ngayon yung statement ni BP na may nakausap na siya without the participation of the one mentioned, the President, the First Lady, and the Speaker of the House, Your Honor. 02:27:10.710 --> 02:27:56.900 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: That's fair. But what I'm saying is that in your reports, did you characterize it as a conditional threat? Kasi kung hindi naman siya pinatay, The logical implication is that there's no threat against the— So I'm not saying it's not illegal, immoral to contract a killer. I'm just trying to follow the logic na pag— So pag sinabi kong pakukulong kita, Mr. Witness, pag nagsinungaling ka under oath, then it's actually not a threat, it's a legal— I'm just telling you the law, di ba? Pero pag sinabi kong pag hindi ka sumunod sa akin, anuin kita. That's my last question lang. So how did you characterize that? It wasn't a conditional in your mind? Because may kinausap na? 02:27:58.140 --> 02:28:02.740 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Even with or without, sir, it's still considered a threat as long as the person— I 02:28:02.740 --> 02:28:03.160 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: have no 02:28:03.160 --> 02:28:05.700 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: doubt there. I'm just asking, is it a conditional threat? 02:28:11.190 --> 02:28:14.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on our affidavit, sir, I believe it's conditional. 02:28:16.690 --> 02:28:17.170 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based 02:28:17.170 --> 02:28:18.250 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: on your affidavit? Affidavit. 02:28:18.510 --> 02:28:18.950 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: But your 02:28:18.950 --> 02:28:25.220 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: initial assessment, personal mo as an investigator, this is an investigation of the whole NBI, but yung personal mo? 02:28:25.220 --> 02:28:27.040 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The threat is absolute, sir. 02:28:27.040 --> 02:28:29.250 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Okay. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. 02:28:29.270 --> 02:28:34.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Cayetano. We now proceed. Senator Judge Padilla is recognized. 02:28:37.000 --> 02:28:38.620 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Maraming salamat po. Thereafter, 02:28:38.680 --> 02:28:40.840 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Zubiri. 02:28:41.280 --> 02:28:41.840 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Maraming 02:28:41.840 --> 02:28:42.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: salamat po. 02:28:42.020 --> 02:28:42.400 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Senator Judge 02:28:42.400 --> 02:28:43.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Padilla, you have two minutes. 02:28:44.000 --> 02:28:47.980 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo. Nais ko lamang pong magtanong sa ating saksi. 02:28:50.900 --> 02:29:20.830 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ginuong saksi, kanina po kasi habang nagkakaroon ng... Pagdinig. Ako po'y laging iistorbo dahil tuwing maitatanong, mag-uobject, mag-uobject, medyo magulo po eh. Pwede po bang sagutin po ninyo ako dahil noong pong February 5, ang sabi po dito ay insufficient po yung na 02:29:22.360 --> 02:29:51.770 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: hindi dapat makarating na sa preliminary investigation. Tama po ba? February 5 po yun? May certification, sir. Yes, sir. Tapos nung February 14, naging sufficient na for conduct of preliminary investigation. Nasagot po ba yung pito na sinabi dito na para ang sinasabi po kasi dito nung February 5, merong pito na kulang? 02:29:53.120 --> 02:29:57.160 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I believe so, sir. That's why we have received a certification, sir. 02:29:57.520 --> 02:30:20.300 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ayun. Kasi po... Parang narinig ko kanina, hindi po na ibigay yung original copy nung sinagawang interview kay Vice President Sara Duterte. Yung original po na kopya kung sino po yung nag-record. Wala po kayong affidavit? Meron po ba kayong affidavit na nakuha nyo? 02:30:20.460 --> 02:30:28.350 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, sir. Ang nire-request po ng DOJ dyan is affidavit po nung nag-screen record, which is my affidavit, Your Honor. 02:30:28.350 --> 02:30:29.810 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Meron po siyang affidavit? 02:30:29.810 --> 02:30:31.750 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Ako, sir. Ako po yung nag-execute, sir. 02:30:32.650 --> 02:30:33.450 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ah, hindi 02:30:33.450 --> 02:30:33.470 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: po 02:30:33.470 --> 02:30:34.270 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: yung mismong tao? 02:30:34.530 --> 02:30:38.470 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, po. Ang hinihingi po kasi ni DOJ is kung sino yung nag-screen record through OBS, sir. 02:30:39.130 --> 02:30:44.250 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Hmm, hindi po yung mismong tao? Yes, Your Honor. Kayo lang po yung nag-Afidavit? 02:30:44.430 --> 02:30:45.090 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:30:45.230 --> 02:30:49.890 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Pero meron po kayo ng pagkakataon ba na nakausap niyo yung tao at nagbigay siya ng Afidavit? 02:30:51.690 --> 02:30:54.710 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: May I clarify, Your Honor, if sinong tao yung tinutukoy? 02:30:54.710 --> 02:30:55.800 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Yung nag-record po. 02:30:55.800 --> 02:30:57.080 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Ako po yung nag 02:30:57.080 --> 02:31:03.020 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: -record through OBS, sir? Hindi po. Yung mismong nag-record po kay Inday sa vice president, 02:31:04.690 --> 02:31:06.310 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: nakausap niyo po ba? 02:31:08.470 --> 02:31:15.750 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Yung raw file po. Kasi napakahalaga po nun. Kasi doon po natin malalaman kung original ba o hindi. 02:31:16.150 --> 02:31:21.370 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The video itself, sir, is publicly available. That's why I performed the recording, sir. 02:31:21.590 --> 02:31:29.850 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Opo. Pakisagot na lang po, mahal na saksi, kung nakuha niyo po ba yung original. Yung original, hindi po yung galing sa internet. 02:31:31.260 --> 02:31:32.080 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: The original? 02:31:32.530 --> 02:31:33.400 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: No, Sir. 02:31:33.400 --> 02:31:35.480 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Maraming salamat po. 02:31:36.650 --> 02:31:42.750 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Padilla. Senator Judge Zubiri, you are recognized, sir. You have two minutes. 02:31:43.210 --> 02:32:14.360 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Maraming salamat to our presiding officer. Magandang hapon po, Sir Witness. Good afternoon, Your Honor. Gusto ko lang magtanong, clarificatory questions lang po ito. Dito ba sa ating bansa, dahil tinatanong ko po sa inyo dahil kayo po investigating body, sa ating bansa, meron bang specific law? Pagdating sa mga banta sa pangulo, pangalawang pangulo, at kanyang mga successors, or yan ba'y pasok lang sa grave threats, which is applied sa lahat, applicable sa lahat ng tao? 02:32:14.600 --> 02:32:18.360 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Based on my personal knowledge, sir, it's only on the grave threat, Your Honor. 02:32:18.620 --> 02:32:56.070 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Which is applied to everyone, if I'm not mistaken, no? Kasi sa batas sa Amerika, sa Estados Unidos, meron pong tinatawag na No. 18 under the United States Code Section 871, there is a specific law na pinagbabawal po itong mga threats to the Vice President and its successors. May jail time po ito at may fine na malaki. As a matter of fact, dito sa panahon ni Pangulong Trump, marami na po silang kinasuhan at hinabla 02:33:13.440 --> 02:33:28.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: [unclear] under our law, after the new NBI law, included po investigation into threats to the life of the President, the Vice President, the Speaker, the Senate President, and the Supreme Court, sir. 02:33:29.100 --> 02:33:52.950 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: So, ah, klaro na kayo, nasa kapangyarihan ninyo. Kasi hindi pwede sa Presidential Security Group. Hindi ka tulad sa Estados Unidos, yung Secret Service ang talagang nanguhuli at nag-investiga. Sa atin dito sa Pilipinas, ang NBI po ang nangunguna sa investigasyon. Tama pong gawin yan o mali? It is within our law, 02:33:53.010 --> 02:33:53.130 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: sir. 02:33:53.230 --> 02:34:39.840 Sen. Juan Miguel “Migz” F. Zubiri: Okay. And this is just food for thought because not only are we senator-judges, we're also legislators. It may be time that we also craft a law that will be specific on threats made to the President, Vice President, and its successors, meaning the Senate President, the Speaker of the House, and the Supreme Court Chief Justice. Sa Amerika kasi sa batas po nila, and I'll just wrap up, the defendant... To secure conviction, the defendant communicated a threat. The defendant understood and intended the statement as a true threat. Hindi po niya sinabi, joke only in the end. And pangatlo, the defendant knowingly and willfully makes the threat. So, just food for thought as legislators as well. So, maraming salamat po. Thank 02:34:39.840 --> 02:34:50.650 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: you, Senator Judge Zubiri. We now proceed to where we left off. I believe that was the redirect of the council for the prosecutor. 02:34:52.400 --> 02:35:13.820 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Just out of curiosity, without any pressure, because I promised I would declare a break somewhere in between. Depending on how long your redirect and recross would be, I can call the break after. The recross and the statement of the counsel for respondent. So we break on a good point before we call on the last witness for today. Yes, 02:35:13.920 --> 02:35:20.060 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: counsel for the prosecutors. As to the question if the prosecution will do the direct examination. The 02:35:20.060 --> 02:35:21.240 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: redirect. Sorry, 02:35:21.360 --> 02:35:30.020 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: the redirect examination after the cross-examination of the defense. The prosecution decides not to conduct a redirect, Your Honor, please. 02:35:30.260 --> 02:35:38.970 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. Council for the Prosecutor. Council for the Respondent, do you want to begin to utilize your time now? 02:35:39.250 --> 02:35:50.090 Atty. Carlo Joaquin T. Narvasa: Your Honor, I will turn over the mic to my co-counsel. He will also be the cross-examiner for the next witness. But to your order, please. Sorry. 02:35:50.710 --> 02:35:54.970 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: May I make a manifestation, Your Honor, please, before we proceed, Your Honor, please. 02:35:57.240 --> 02:35:58.980 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: In connection with 02:35:58.980 --> 02:36:00.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: what counsel for the prosecutors? 02:36:00.360 --> 02:36:24.580 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: As to the manifestation earlier that all the documents that were confronted, that were presented to the witness, I believe that the defense said that all those exhibits were pre-marked. But based on our records, Your Honor, please, and then I hope the defense will clarify this for the record, we perused the documents and we don't see that the articles of 02:36:46.970 --> 02:36:48.170 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you so much. 02:36:55.110 --> 02:36:59.350 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Good afternoon, your honors. I am Mark Vinluan for the Vice President. 02:37:00.310 --> 02:37:33.810 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Sir, you're aware of the situation. Time was given to the counsel for the prosecutors to make a discussion about whether or not Article 4, the acts alleged in Article 4 constitute an impeachable offense. You have the same time of 4 minutes and 26 minutes. Before I allow you to continue, kawapan naman si Mr. Calilung. Mr. Witness, Mr. Calilung, Senator Judge Lacson, before we excuse, Senator 02:37:45.430 --> 02:37:49.630 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Judge Soto is recognized. Sir, what is your pleasure, sir? 02:37:51.220 --> 02:37:56.260 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Mr. President, Mr. Siding Officer, are we going to dispense with the witness already? 02:37:57.470 --> 02:38:02.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Unless you have questions, I believe Senator Lacson has questions to the witness, so not yet. 02:38:02.550 --> 02:38:12.650 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Well, it's a simple question. Thank you very much. You're familiar with the internet, of course. 02:38:12.990 --> 02:38:13.610 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:38:13.910 --> 02:38:23.930 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Have you noticed that lately all the AI-generated videos have a caption saying AI-generated? 02:38:24.270 --> 02:38:25.010 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:38:25.710 --> 02:38:30.770 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Kaya pag walang nakalagay na AI-generated, siguradong hindi AI-generated? 02:38:32.690 --> 02:38:33.770 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Yes, Your Honor. 02:38:34.010 --> 02:38:35.030 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Today, Your Honor. 02:38:35.470 --> 02:38:37.390 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Yes, lately. Lately, 02:38:37.490 --> 02:38:37.730 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 02:38:37.910 --> 02:38:44.870 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Lahat nakalagay. Pag AI-generated, nakalagay AI-generated and meta does not allow it. Right? They allowed 02:38:44.870 --> 02:38:50.330 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: it but there is AI info. Correct. There 02:38:50.330 --> 02:38:54.790 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: is a manifestation. Yes, Your Honor. It is explicitly 02:38:54.790 --> 02:38:55.830 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: mentioned that AI. 02:38:56.230 --> 02:38:57.430 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: So you're aware of that? 02:38:57.630 --> 02:38:58.110 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:38:58.210 --> 02:38:58.930 Sen. Vicente C. Sotto III: Thank you. That's it. 02:39:00.130 --> 02:39:05.600 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Senator Judge Lacson, you have, you likewise have two minutes, sir. You may proceed. 02:39:05.860 --> 02:39:35.660 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Thank you, Mr. President of Serbs, Mr. Senate President. I have questions para sa ating testigo. Since you are presented here as an expert witness, alam niyo nag-consult din ako sa digital forensics expert para lang makonvince sa sarili ko. My first question is, In this day and age of artificial intelligence, will you agree with me that it is almost impossible to distinguish an AI-generated video from the original? 02:39:37.280 --> 02:39:38.300 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Almost impossible. 02:39:38.720 --> 02:39:40.180 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. It is hard, Your Honor. 02:39:40.340 --> 02:40:07.420 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yeah, very hard. Very difficult. Kasi ito impeachment trial. Kasi sa court, ginagamit talaga yung expert testimony. Digital or computer forensics expert. Now, you may or may not answer this question kung classified. Gusto ko lang malaman, ano ba yung digital forensic tools na ginagamit din siyo sa NBI? 02:40:08.500 --> 02:40:17.980 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Currently, I am not familiar but during the time na nandun po ko sa Digital Forensic Laboratory Division, meron kaming NCASE Forensic. 02:40:19.910 --> 02:40:22.410 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Celebrite and Amped Authenticator. 02:40:22.730 --> 02:40:40.430 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang balita ko yung Amped 5 or Amped Authenticator. Ito yung ginagamit ninyo. Ito, capable ito na magsagawa ng reverse image, photo or video, di ba? 02:40:40.430 --> 02:40:41.400 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:40:41.400 --> 02:40:43.270 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Okay. Ito ba yung ginamit mo? 02:40:44.210 --> 02:40:46.950 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: For this part, Your Honor, the OBS only, Your Honor. 02:40:47.530 --> 02:40:48.910 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ba'tin ninyong ginamit ito? 02:40:49.650 --> 02:41:03.160 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The duration is two large, Your Honor, the two hours. And the amphet authenticate can only detect if there is a inconsistent FPS, Your Honor. 02:41:04.660 --> 02:41:14.800 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Kaya ako tinanong yun dahil una-una maraming ano eh para mag-adhere na magamit sa korte, likewise sa impeachment court. 02:41:16.460 --> 02:41:27.000 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: May mga requirements, di ba? Sinabi mo kasi meron kayong open source, di ba? Pero ang pinaka-importante ay yung chain of custody. Of course, yung provenance. 02:41:27.260 --> 02:41:27.900 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:41:28.120 --> 02:41:29.960 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yung original na pinanggalingan. 02:41:30.120 --> 02:41:30.780 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:41:30.880 --> 02:41:32.500 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Ang sabi mo, pinanggalingan lang Facebook. 02:41:34.460 --> 02:41:35.920 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The Facebook was 02:41:35.920 --> 02:41:36.820 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: captured, Your Honor. 02:41:36.820 --> 02:41:39.420 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: So, hindi yun ang original, di ba? 02:41:40.040 --> 02:41:44.200 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: The screen recording is the original itself as to my authentication, Sir. 02:41:44.760 --> 02:41:50.480 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Yeah, and you can attest. Sa authenticity ng video. Yes, 02:41:50.480 --> 02:41:50.720 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 02:41:50.900 --> 02:41:55.920 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: In spite of not being or not having originated from the original. 02:41:56.680 --> 02:42:03.260 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. I compared the recorded with the original and ensured that the contents are identical, Your Honor. 02:42:03.420 --> 02:42:11.000 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Kasi nabanggit mo rin, ginamit mo yung manual comparison simultaneously ng dalawang videos. Yes, 02:42:11.040 --> 02:42:11.280 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 02:42:11.480 --> 02:43:00.100 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: Pero again, I will insist na talagang Hindi reliable yung manual. Ito yung sinabi sa akin nung digital forensics expert na nakausap ko. Ang pinaka mas importante makuha mo yung original copy, yun nga yung provenance, diba? Para talagang tapos masundan mo yung sa analysis, gagamitan mo ng tools para malaman mo na talagang authentic yung video. Of course, I'm not here to question the authenticity. I just want to be assured. Dahil sabi ko nga kanina, pagka sa artificial intelligence, napakahirap talaga. Almost impossible to distinguish it from the original video or yung source. 02:43:00.100 --> 02:43:01.530 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:43:01.530 --> 02:43:13.200 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: And you are competent enough. Ginagamit yung forensic tools or forensics tools. At yung competence mo through your training. 02:43:13.200 --> 02:43:14.870 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: An experience, Your Honor. 02:43:14.870 --> 02:43:20.250 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: An experience. Kasi sabi mo nga, you've been with the NBI since 2021, di ba? 02:43:20.250 --> 02:43:20.630 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, 02:43:20.630 --> 02:43:20.850 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 02:43:21.010 --> 02:43:24.550 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: And since then, you have appeared in some 20? 02:43:24.550 --> 02:43:26.250 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: At least 30, Your Honor. 02:43:26.250 --> 02:43:27.100 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 30? 02:43:27.100 --> 02:43:27.870 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:43:28.090 --> 02:43:29.150 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: 30 court hearings? 02:43:29.150 --> 02:43:30.100 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Yes, Your Honor. 02:43:30.100 --> 02:43:33.750 Sen. Panfilo “Ping” M. Lacson: So, thank you, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. President. 02:43:33.750 --> 02:43:34.770 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Thank you, Your Honor. 02:43:36.140 --> 02:43:41.140 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Senator Judge Lacson. Senator Judge Cayetano, what is your pleasure? 02:43:41.380 --> 02:43:44.340 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Just a clarification addressed to the presiding officer. You 02:43:44.340 --> 02:43:44.800 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: may proceed, sir. 02:43:45.760 --> 02:44:03.660 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Apologies, I don't remember if it was one of the counsels of one of the senator judges who asked the witness a while ago whether he was an expert witness and he said he was a competent witness. That is correct. And there's a difference between an expert witness. So he's not an expert witness. He's an competent witness. That 02:44:03.660 --> 02:44:04.640 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: is correct. So 02:44:04.640 --> 02:44:15.400 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: that will have bearing because whether or not an AI video can be produced without an AI has to be testified by an expert witness. If I may. 02:44:15.920 --> 02:44:30.690 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Go ahead. That doesn't mean—I don't think you'll disagree with my second statement—that this witness is not competent to testify on that. Second point, I'd just like to clarify for the record— 02:44:50.540 --> 02:45:00.410 Sen. Alan Peter Cayetano: Gerville I was informed, StreamYard. But just for the record so that later on when we review everything, someone testified to it. Thank you. 02:45:02.410 --> 02:45:14.670 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Atty. Vinluan, you have your 4 minutes and 26 seconds. But we cannot use the seconds in our timer so just look at the clock, sir. 02:45:14.790 --> 02:45:21.950 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Your Honor, please. Before we... Ah, yes. Mr. Calilung, you are excused, sir. 02:45:22.410 --> 02:45:22.950 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Thank you, 02:45:22.990 --> 02:45:23.170 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: Your Honor. 02:45:23.230 --> 02:45:26.450 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: And thank you for your time and cooperation with this Impeachment Court. Thank 02:45:26.450 --> 02:45:29.790 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: you so much, NBI Senior Agent John Mark Calilung. Thank you so much. 02:45:32.770 --> 02:45:37.990 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Hold on, Mr. Calilung. Yes, Senator Judge Padilla, what is your pleasure, sir? 02:45:51.480 --> 02:45:58.380 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Kung paano po lahat ang kanyang certification, lahat, upang mapatunayan po natin lahat. It's ready. It's ready. 02:46:01.760 --> 02:46:06.060 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: But kindly respond to the question of Senator Judge Padilla. Mr. Witness. 02:46:06.640 --> 02:46:10.880 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I have here, sir, my certifications during the time of my investigation, Your Honor. 02:46:11.300 --> 02:46:13.040 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Can you... Mahaba ba? 02:46:14.260 --> 02:46:15.980 John Mark Sta. Ana Calilung: I can read, Your Honor. 02:46:17.050 --> 02:46:17.790 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Mahaba ba? Hindi. 02:46:18.810 --> 02:46:20.870 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: Ibigay na lang po siguro sa ating... 02:46:20.870 --> 02:46:23.310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Kindly just submit it to us. Yes, please. Opo, submit na lang 02:46:23.310 --> 02:46:23.430 Sen. Robinhood “Robin” Padilla: po. 02:46:23.810 --> 02:46:35.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, your honor. If that is okay with Senator Judge Padilla. Thank you, sir. Mr. Calilung, you are excused, sir, and thank you for your time and cooperation with the impeachment court. Thank you, your honor. 02:46:38.390 --> 02:46:55.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The presiding officer will just wait for the witness to leave the premises before recognizing Atty. Vinluan. Okay, Atty. Vinluan, you have 4 minutes and 26 seconds. You may proceed, sir. Thereafter, we will call for a 15-minute break. 02:46:59.460 --> 02:47:40.240 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: In the discourse yesterday, talking about VP Sara's statements during the November 23, 2024 presscon, Senator Judge Risa Hontiveros stated, and I quote, None of these statements are proof that the Vice President actually contracted an assassin or hired one. She is absolutely right. She then asked the question, Why are these acts impeachable? To this question, The prosecution responded, We understand that these statements may not actually 100% prove that she in fact contracted an assassin. Hence, 02:47:41.840 --> 02:49:25.580 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: the prosecution admitted that the video does not prove any fact other than its existence. In simple words, there is no proof of any contracting of an assassin. The prosecution's admission before this honorable court made the respondent's position clear. The prosecution has no other competent evidence to prove that VP Sara contracted an assassin. Ang testimonya ni Calilung, gaya ng iba pang ebedensya ko noon ng prosekyusyon, ay hindi sapat para patunayan ang paratang na ito. Trying to prove this stretch narrative using a hodgepodge of materials is a waste of this honorable court's time and the Filipino people's money. Si VP Sara na mismo ang nagsabi na hindi asasin ang kinausap niya. This term only came from people who took her statements out of their proper context and tried to exaggerate them for what they really meant. The truth of the matter is this. She and her family were threatened. And while her response was unconventional, it was justified. What triggered her response was a question about Operation Romanov, which is the plot to eliminate VP Sara and her entire family. The NBI's own records prove this. In the minutes of the meeting of Dempsey Reyes' interview, he said, and I quote, May press conference kasi earlier than that, sabi niya, parang hindi lang niya gusto daw, sabi lang niya gusto daw siyang patayin daw, according to her and his speaker. That was during a press conference the day before November 2022. 02:49:27.170 --> 02:51:06.730 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: During the virtual presscon, Princess Maui mentioned Operation Romanov again and even warned her about her safety. Reyes talked about it, Princess Maui reiterated it, but the NBI gaslighted it. When VP Sara uttered those words, she was not responding as Sara Duterte, the Vice President, but Sara Duterte, the wife, mother, daughter, and sister. who only sought to protect her own and her family members' lives. Operation Romanov is in place and the threat against their lives is real. VP Sara became the target of unauthorized intelligence and surveillance operations by government operatives that exposed her family to high-level risks and security threats, thereby causing intense trauma and uncontrollable fear. Her homes in Davao and Manila were profiled and this is proven by classified gazing reports. Her trusted security personnel were removed. Her schedule of official functions like the one in Naga was leaked by intelligence agents and her security was heavily compromised. In sum, the prosecution was right in using the term culmination. But the prosecution's interpretation is wrong. Rather, When VP Sara left the administration, she suffered various forms of threats and harassment for many months from the powers that be and the culmination was her statement on that fateful early morning in November 2024. 02:51:08.500 --> 02:52:19.900 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: She didn't commit an impeachable offense. She drew the line in the sand and said, enough is enough. That is the meaning and that is the context. Finally, as to the alleged grave threats and inciting to sedition, these are defined by their Vice Penal Code and are punishable by Crision Correctional. Thus, these fall under the jurisdiction of the MTC or First Level Courts. These charges are not other high crimes as contemplated by the Constitution as grounds for impeachment, and are therefore not impeachable. After all, VP Sar was fighting two important battles that day. One against the threat to her family's life, and another against the life of the ordinary Filipino constantly suffocated by the immense weight of corruption which she talked about during the presscon. She never incited sedition. She merely echoed the voice of ordinary Filipinos. Her message that day only reflected what was already in their hearts and minds. There was no betrayal of public trust. She actually upheld the people's trust as she spoke for and behalf of the people. Thank you, Your Honor. 02:52:20.280 --> 02:52:25.540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you, Atty. Vinluan. Chair declares the 50th. Sen. Judge Balmaquino, before we declare a recess. 02:52:26.300 --> 02:52:29.640 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Yes, just a quick manifestation, Mr. President. You may proceed, 02:52:29.740 --> 02:52:29.880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: sir. 02:52:31.500 --> 02:53:50.550 Sen. Paolo Benigno “Bam” Aquino: Tapos na po tayo sa unang witness. It's taken us maybe a total of nine hours for the first witness. Ito ho, isang pakiusap sa parehong grupo. Alam ko po may kanya-kanya tayong estilo, may kanya-kanya tayong strategy. But if possible, can we allow the testimonies to be heard? Can we have proceedings that will go straight to the point? Kasi po nanonood ang taong bayan, pati po kaming mga senator-judge. Gusto rin ho namin makita itong mga proceedings, yung mga ebidensya na mas madali ring maintindihan. So ito naman po, di ho namin pwede itong idikta sa inyo. But if possible... The succeeding witnesses and we have a long list. This goes for both parties by the way. Let's have proceedings where we can go straight to the point. Malaman natin yung puntos ng bawat grupo para makapag-desisyon rin po tayo ng maayos. Ito po isang, this is a plea. This is not an order to both parties. But if we can, this is the people's tribunal. We're watching. Everybody's watching. Sana po payagan natin na lumabas yung mga Katotohanan, lumabas yung mga ebedensya upang maging mas madali at mas kaaya-aya po yung ating proceedings. Yun lang po, Mr. President. 02:54:03.580 --> 02:54:15.920 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Nagkakasanayan, nagkakaestimahan, pero bibilis at bibilis ito sa pagdalay din ng ilang araw lang ng trial natin. And you will be able to see that the next couple of days. Chair declares a 15-minute recess. We will come back. Yes, counsel for the 02:54:15.920 --> 02:54:32.060 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: prosecutor. Before the declaration of recess, I suppose that the reason is for the presentation of the next witness. For the prosecution. We manifest, Your Honor, that John Mark Calilung will be our witness for this afternoon. We'll be presenting the next witness during the next hearing on Monday, Your Honor, please. 02:54:32.300 --> 02:54:35.540 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Ah, you won't present Atty. Lotoc 02:54:35.540 --> 02:54:35.880 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: anymore? 02:54:35.880 --> 02:54:36.220 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, 02:54:36.240 --> 02:54:45.680 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, on Monday, Your Honor, please. We will utilize the 11 days allotted to Article 4 for the prosecution, Your Honor, please. 02:54:46.080 --> 02:54:48.020 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, no attorney will talk today? 02:54:48.200 --> 02:54:50.120 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Today. We'll do that on Monday, Your Honor, please. 02:54:50.360 --> 02:54:54.440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, Chair would like to... 02:54:56.520 --> 02:55:01.740 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I guess there's no need to declare a recess. Senator Judge Lacson, thank you for that manifestation. 02:55:02.260 --> 02:55:04.300 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Yes, counsel for the respondent. 02:55:04.300 --> 02:55:04.560 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: What do you want to say? 02:55:04.560 --> 02:55:10.840 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: Your Honor, may be just clarified if Atty. Lotoc is the witness on Monday because they had already disclosed the witness. 02:55:10.840 --> 02:55:12.440 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: I was about to ask that question. 02:55:12.440 --> 02:55:17.360 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, Your Honor. Atty. Jeremy Lotoc will be presented by the prosecution on Monday, Your Honor, please. 02:55:18.530 --> 02:55:25.470 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Likewise, can you name us? You manifested that you will also be presenting next week or requesting a subpoena to 02:55:27.710 --> 02:55:30.650 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Yes, 02:55:31.360 --> 02:55:35.400 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: to Atty. Lopez and Atty. Director Matibag. 02:55:35.760 --> 02:55:44.910 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: That would be Captain Belinda Bello, Your Honor, please, and NBI Director Matibag. And then... 02:55:44.910 --> 02:55:47.710 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Lotoc first. 02:55:54.590 --> 02:56:12.480 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Matibag Matibag Matibag Matibag 02:56:13.380 --> 02:56:36.760 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Given the manifestation of the council for the prosecutor, chair hereby orders the issuance of Sabina once again to Atty. Lotoc for the trial dates on July 13, 14, and 15 as well as for Atty. Melvin Matibag. No need for Sabina for Ms. Bella? 02:56:38.800 --> 02:56:39.740 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor. 02:56:41.070 --> 02:56:44.890 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Before I recognize council's correspondent. No need for a subpoena? 02:56:47.760 --> 02:56:49.420 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: There's no need for subpoena, Your Honor. You 02:56:49.420 --> 02:56:53.160 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: did not request for a subpoena, counsel. Yes, Your Honor. So, no need. No 02:56:53.160 --> 02:56:53.600 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: need, Your Honor. 02:56:53.760 --> 02:57:01.860 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: You will produce... Can you state the name again for the record, counsel? Can you state the name of the witness again for the record? 02:57:02.100 --> 02:57:29.670 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Your Honor, the first witness will be Captain Belinda Bellow—sorry, that would be Atty. Jeremy C. Lotoc. Number two is Captain Belinda Bellow, and number three, NBI Director Matibag. Number four, [unclear]. Those are the witnesses, Your Honor, please. 02:57:34.150 --> 02:57:35.510 Atty. Amando Virgil D. Ligutan: Matibag, Atty. 02:57:40.810 --> 02:57:44.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Matibag, To reiterate, Your Honor, 02:57:45.020 --> 02:57:46.240 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: may I be recognized? I 02:57:46.240 --> 02:57:52.420 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: apologize. Yes, the member of the panel of prosecutors, Representative Defensor, what is your pleasure, sir? 02:57:52.560 --> 02:58:16.220 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: Your Honor, may I just correct, since the private counsel is under the direct supervision and control of the counsel of prosecutors. For Monday, Your Honors, we will be presenting Atty. Jeremy Lotoc. For Wednesday, we will be presenting Atty. or Tuesday, we will be presenting Atty. Zuleika Lopez. And for Wednesday, our third witness, we will be presenting Captain Belinda Belliong. 02:58:18.340 --> 02:58:22.360 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So, Director Matibag is not yet going to be presented next week? 02:58:22.680 --> 02:58:34.340 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: Not yet, Your Honor. We will manifest on Monday if we can consider him for the Wednesday's session depending on how the trial goes or how long the testimonies will take for both parties. 02:58:35.540 --> 02:58:37.480 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Noted. What is the pleasure of counsel? 02:58:40.180 --> 02:59:10.310 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair would like now to discuss and dispense with some administrative matters. The BAR box, which the Chair ordered to be returned on July 6, has actually been returned to the BAR, sealed, untouched, and duly received accordingly. And the Council for the Prosecutors have filed a motion for the issuance of subpoena, dosis tecum, ati stificandum to the BAR. Concerning this box, has a copy been furnished to the Council for the Respondents? 02:59:12.420 --> 02:59:13.540 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: None yet, Your Honor. 02:59:13.820 --> 02:59:17.380 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: None yet? I thought, um, yes, um... 02:59:17.380 --> 02:59:24.720 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: Your Honor, we confirmed that we emailed a copy to the Respondents. Last Monday, Your Honor. So 02:59:24.720 --> 03:00:19.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: we can dispense with the need of reading the subpoena. Having said that, given that this has been put in issue in the pre-trial brief of both parties—or rather the counsel for respondent—we will accord the same treatment to this with respect to the subpoena request for the bank accounts of the spouses, Vice President Sara Duterte and Atty. Manases Carpio. Therefore, the Presiding Officer orders both parties to submit memoranda on the subject matter. We will also schedule the oral arguments for deciding on this issue together with the bank records on Wednesday. Each party will be given 10 minutes, without prejudice to rebuttal and also rebuttal by the other side for another three minutes, before the Court shall decide. 03:00:20.060 --> 03:00:21.430 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: We will comply, Your Honor. 03:00:21.430 --> 03:00:22.400 Atty. Mark C. Vinluan: We will comply, Your Honor. 03:00:22.740 --> 03:00:28.980 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Thank you. So ordered. In regard to the request for the issuance of a motion for subpoena. 03:00:37.320 --> 03:00:55.100 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: May I ask if counsel for the respondents were likewise furnished with a copy of the request for subpoena, although this is ex-parte because this is only with respect to witnesses. So there is no need to issue a subpoena to Atty. Melvin Matibag for next week. Honorable defense, sir? No 03:00:55.100 --> 03:00:56.220 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: need? No need, Your Honor. 03:00:56.980 --> 03:00:59.000 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: So just Atty. Zuleika Lopez? 03:00:59.360 --> 03:01:00.000 Rep. Lorenz R. Defensor: Yes, Your Honor. 03:01:00.260 --> 03:01:06.200 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: Chair orders that subpoena be issued to Atty. Zuleika Lopez to appear on July 03:01:09.250 --> 03:01:21.530 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: As indicated by the Council for the Prosecutors, given that on the 15th, we might be arguing on the bank deposits and the BIR documents. We submit your order. It's ordered. 03:01:32.870 --> 03:01:43.730 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: There be no other matters for consideration by the Court, and given that the Council for the Prosecutors have manifested that they will no longer present Attorney Latok today, but rather on Monday. 03:01:54.280 --> 03:02:00.900 Sen. Francis "Chiz" G. Escudero: The trial is hereby adjourned until 2 p.m. Monday, July 13, 2026.